BOOKS BY ANANTA Welcome to Satsang with Ananta

Q: “Could we talk about the chooser and the sense of choice please?”

It’s very good that we look at this concept of doership, of choice very deeply. Because this is one of the main legs of the ego to stand on. Without the sense of doership, the ego cannot survive. Therefore the most important question is first to ask: ‘I say that I am the choice maker, or decision maker, or chooser, but as what am I saying this? Who is the choice maker? What does the choice maker look like?’

If I am so clear that I must be making these choices, then I must be clear about ‘I-as-who’. It is only after the belief that ‘I as an individual person’ and this belief comes that ‘I as an individual person am making these choices’.

But if you slowly look at the process of how the choice is made, you will see that the person is not involved in any way. So we can look for: What is the stage of the choice making where the person gets involved? Even if we were to presume that the person is real, can we figure out how the person actually makes the choice? And we can look at it together if you like. We must look at: What is this decision making that we believe that we are doing? In fact a large part of the in-person satsang we had last Saturday was about this.

So who can tell me how we make a choice? Really slow it down, look at exactly what happens, and then how you make a choice. What is the beginning? What is the beginning of choice making?

And we will give some time for the lag, and I will wait for your answers. And in the meanwhile, let’s read what else is there.

Another Q says: “It is a kind of energy wrongly used, so it’s better not to use.”  That is a nice and simple way to put the energetic way of looking at the mind, yes.  “Thank you, something is melting; time to cry.”

Another Q says: “First it is confusion or doubt about two choices; which is good for me?”

Yes, but even before this confusion comes, even before this confusion comes there must be a thought that is believed in. What is the choice? So if it is about choosing between two jobs, it could be like ‘I must quit my job’ or ‘I must join some other place’.  If this thought had not come, would you be making a choice?

Another Q says: “Father, I love you.”  I love you, too.

First Q says: “Belief in a thought that is telling me I have to do something.”

Exactly, exactly. And now, in what way did you create this thought? How do you manufacture a thought? What tools do you use to create this thought?

Most of humanity believes that they are the creator of their thoughts, that they are the thinker of their thoughts. But we have never looked at this very basic thing: In what way did we create it?

So we are saying that if the thought had not come, then the concept of this choice would not be there. And what did we do to create this thought? Is it not true that thoughts are flowing on their own?

When Being is here, then from this Being itself, on the Presence of the Being itself, thoughts seem to be flowing on their own. Just like the clouds in the sky seem to be coming and going on their own. So believing that ‘I created a thought’ is just like believing that ‘Just because I can see a cloud, I must have created it’. Very good.

Another Q says: “That’s true. First belief in thought that says ‘The current situation is not acceptable and change is needed’. But I see that this thought is about the person.”

Very good. All thoughts are referring to you as the person. There is no thought which truly refers to you as Being or Awareness. Even when it tries to do that, it can only say that ‘As a person you are now Beingness, or as a person you are now Awareness’. Because the mind can not fathom Beingness or Awareness; it can only fathom what comes after it.

And this is true for all appearances, isn’t it? So at the root, there is Awareness itself; after Awareness there is the birth of Beingness-in-Awareness Itself, made up of Awareness itself. And Beingness can not fathom Awareness because it is prior to it. Then after Beingness is there, then the world appears; then first actually the mind appears, and then the world appears. And since the mind came later, the mind cannot fathom the Beingness also. And Awareness is completely an unknown concept for the mind.

Just like the grandchild can not talk about the circumstances in which the grandfather was born; he can only speculate. The same way, the mind can only speculate about the nature of our Being. And when we start believing this speculation, then we call that the intellectual understanding. So what we are saying is: Come to your true nature of what you are, which is beyond the speculation of the mind.

So coming back to choice, we see that first the thought came. So the thought could be ‘I want to change my job’. The real fun then starts, when a contradictory thought then comes and says ‘No, you must stay’. Then we have the apparent illusion of choice. But we do not create either of these thoughts. It is Consciousness itself in the Presence of which these thoughts emerge, and Consciousness itself which will pretend to be a decision maker, and Consciousness itself through which all the actions will happen, irrespective of what the decision was.

So we have seen this also many times in our life, that we might have decided something, but when the time comes, we do something which is completely the opposite of that. Therefore it is only an illusion of decision making, of choice. Life is just unfolding in it’s own beautiful way.

Another Q says: “Yes Father. I hear you, thank you, <censored> is very clear.”

Very good. So the first thing to understand is: How can there be a decision maker who is separate if we have seen that the separate person itself does not exist?

So with that itself, this concept of decision making or choice should get cut off. But if it doesn’t, then we can look deeper into the process of choice making also, and see that it is just a collection of beliefs we carry about having to make a decision or a choice.

And with this choicelessness is full power actually; it is not a powerlessness. The mind will convince you that if you are not making a choice you are powerless. But what it is referring to is the person; a person without choice does not have much meaning; and that’s exactly what we are saying in satsang. That we remove this important aspect or false meaning that we have been giving to this person, by looking and seeing that all is unfolding on it’s own.

So whatever we feel we must decide, we can forget about it. We can just let it go. Forget about it. If something is convincing you that the real world is separate from the satsang world, and in the real world we need to make some choices, then don’t believe that thought. This is just the mind’s way of keeping you entangled more and more.

Namaste everyone, a very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai !

If you are joining us for the first time, know that the way to ask questions is through the chat window. Welcome. Namaste, namaste, very good.

What would you like to talk about?

Observe what is happening in this silence.

Clare says, “Surrendering the chooser.” Very good, very good. So would you like to talk about this, or is it just something that you are throwing into the fire of satsang? Clare says, “Throwing in.” She is throwing it in, yes.

Whatever the mind is saying is less meaningful than silence itself. Whatever it is saying, forget about it.

Alright so we have some questions.

Cornelia says, “Is it appropriate to ask about the nature of the mind?” Yes, yes, why not?

We have discussed this; we have discussed many aspects and the nature of the mind. But at it’s root, at it’s core, the nature of the mind seems to be to attempt to create the individual identity. To attempt to create and to perpetuate the individual identity. At the very root, this seems to be the nature of the mind. So the mind refers to us as a separate entity; and once this is believed that ‘I am separate from the rest’, once the duality is believed, then the play starts, then the game begins. And once separateness is believed, then we can easily believe the rest of the mind’s concepts as well. Because once we start to believe ourselves to be a separate individual then there must be a need to defend. So it becomes about a separate individual and the individual’s story about survival, and eventually reaching some level of greatness.

All of our so called inspiring stories, if you look at the most popular novels, most popular stories, they are about how individuals have dealt with adversity, and ultimately come out on top. So what really happens is that the mind first convinces us that we are separate, and then tries to help us to become great, even almost godlike. So ultimately, the mind’s ambition for us is to become a person-god, or a godly person; not a ‘godly’ person, but you know what I mean. A person who is god himself, as powerful as god; and could have many attributes which could make the person feel like god. It could be money, it could be relationships, it could be the state of the body’s health, it could be our work. That is why the ultimate compliment we can give these beings…, in the world you will see this often, that many times sports people are called god. So Sachin Tendulkar is called the god of cricket, Messi is called the god of football. So ultimately the mind’s goal is to get the person to the point of becoming god.

But anyone who sees this, who inquires into this for just a few minutes, will see that it is just not possible; because nothing can replicate the peace, joy and happiness of this pure nothingness. Holding the identity of trying to become a person-god is a very, very heavy burden. And that is why you don’t see, even with a lot of success in any sphere of life, you don’t find beings which are happy, peaceful and joyous. The only beings who are truly peaceful are the ones who have gotten over this or transcended this being a person. And this is true throughout history. There are billions and billions of beings that seem to have been born here and this is true for all of them. So that is the core of the nature of the mind.

And this has many other small, small attributes which you can ascribe, but the fact is, this is the main nature. There are many smaller things, like to discuss the nature of the mind, you’ll see…, if you inquire into the nature of the mind you will see that, even in satsang, I could say 1,000 times that ‘I love you’. I could say 1,000 nice things about each of you. But if I was once to say that ‘I hate you’ then it will be this one that is more believed. The negative will be more believed. We will always doubt the positive. So if I tell you that ‘I love you’ your mind will say ‘Oh, but he is saying it very generally; he is just saying it because there is so much love; he doesn’t actually love me’. But if I were to say ‘I hate you’ you will not doubt it; you will say ‘Oh, he hates me’. So it’s just one of the attributes of the nature of the mind. But ultimately, at the core, is to create this idea of separateness.

Okay, Zurin says, “Could we talk about the chooser and the sense of choice please?”

It’s very good that we look at this concept of doership, of choice very deeply. Because this is one of the main legs of the ego to stand on. Without the sense of doership, the ego cannot survive. Therefore the most important question is first to ask: ‘I say that I am the choice maker, or decision maker, or chooser, but as what am I saying this? Who is the choice maker? What does the choice maker look like?’ If I am so clear that I must be making these choices, then I must be clear about ‘I-as-who’. It is only after the belief that ‘I as an individual person’ and this belief comes that ‘I as an individual person am making these choices’.

But if you slowly look at the process of how the choice is made, you will see that the person is not involved in any way. So we can look for: What is the stage of the choice making where the person gets involved? Even if we were to presume that the person is real, can we figure out how the person actually makes the choice? And we can look at it together if you like. We must look at: What is this decision making that we believe that we are doing? In fact a large part of the in-person satsang we had last Saturday was about this.

So who can tell me how we make a choice? Really slow it down, look at exactly what happens, and then how you make a choice. What is the beginning? What is the beginning of choice making?

And we will give some time for the lag, and I will wait for your answers. And in the meanwhile, let’s read what else is there.

Cornelia says, “It is a kind of energy wrongly used, so it’s better not to use.”

That is a nice and simple way to put the energetic way of looking at the mind, yes.

[Cornelia] “Thank you, something is melting; time to cry.”

So SK says, “First it is confusion or doubt about two choices; which is good for me?”

Yes, but even before this confusion comes, even before this confusion comes there must be a thought that is believed in. What is the choice? So if it is about choosing between two jobs, it could be like ‘I must quit my job’ or ‘I must join some other place’.  If this thought had not come, would you be making a choice?

Ustreamer56 says, “Father, I love you.”  I love you, too.

Zurin says, “Belief in a thought that is telling me I have to do something.”

Exactly, exactly. And now, in what way did you create this thought? How do you manufacture a thought? What tools do you use to create this thought?

Most of humanity believes that they are the creator of their thoughts, that they are the thinker of their thoughts. But we have never looked at this very basic thing: In what way did we create it?

So we are saying that if the thought had not come, then the concept of this choice would not be there. And what did we do to create this thought? Is it not true that thoughts are flowing on their own?

When Being is here, then from this Being itself, on the Presence of the Being itself, thoughts seem to be flowing on their own. Just like the clouds in the sky seem to be coming and going on their own. So believing that ‘I created a thought’ is just like believing that ‘Just because I can see a cloud, I must have created it’.

Very good. So SK says, “That’s true. First belief in thought that says ‘The current situation is not acceptable and change is needed’. But I see that this thought is about the person.”

Very good. All thoughts are referring to you as the person. There is no thought which truly refers to you as Being or Awareness. Even when it tries to do that, it can only say that ‘As a person you are now Beingness, or as a person you are now Awareness’. Because the mind can not fathom Beingness or Awareness; it can only fathom what comes after it.

And this is true for all appearances, isn’t it? So at the root, there is Awareness itself; after Awareness there is the birth of Beingness-in-Awareness Itself, made up of Awareness itself. And Beingness can not fathom Awareness because it is prior to it. Then after Beingness is there, then the world appears; then first actually the mind appears, and then the world appears. And since the mind came later, the mind cannot fathom the Beingness also. And Awareness is completely an unknown concept for the mind.

Just like the grandchild can not talk about the circumstances in which the grandfather was born; he can only speculate. The same way, the mind can only speculate about the nature of our Being. And when we start believing this speculation, then we call that the intellectual understanding. So what we are saying is: Come to your true nature of what you are, which is beyond the speculation of the mind.

So coming back to choice, we see that first the thought came. So the thought could be ‘I want to change my job’. The real fun then starts, when a contradictory thought then comes and says ‘No, you must stay’. Then we have the apparent illusion of choice. But we do not create either of these thoughts. It is Consciousness itself in the Presence of which these thoughts emerge, and Consciousness itself which will pretend to be a decision maker, and Consciousness itself through which all the actions will happen, irrespective of what the decision was.

So we have seen this also many times in our life, that we might have decided something, but when the time comes, we do something which is completely the opposite of that. Therefore it is only an illusion of decision making, of choice. Life is just unfolding in it’s own beautiful way.

Atma says, “Yes Father. I hear you, thank you, <censored> is very clear.” Very good.

So the first thing to understand is: How can there be a decision maker who is separate if we have seen that the separate person itself does not exist?

So with that itself, this concept of decision making or choice should get cut off. But if it doesn’t, then we can look deeper into the process of choice making also, and see that it is just a collection of beliefs we carry about having to make a decision or a choice.

And with this choicelessness is full power actually; it is not a powerlessness. The mind will convince you that if you are not making a choice you are powerless. But what it is referring to is the person; a person without choice does not have much meaning; and that’s exactly what we are saying in satsang. That we remove this important aspect or false meaning that we have been giving to this person, by looking and seeing that all is unfolding on it’s own.

So whatever we feel we must decide, we can forget about it. We can just let it go. Forget about it. If something is convincing you that the real world is separate from the satsang world, and in the real world we need to make some choices, then don’t believe that thought. This is just the mind’s way of keeping you entangled more and more.

Okay, it says I have a poor network connection here; if you can confirm that you are still getting this? Yes. Okay

So Ustreamer56 says, “Father, we can relax about our wrong past choices.”

Yes, completely. That’s why I feel that those two phrases are so beautiful. It is ‘tvam kartah, tvam buaktah’ which means ‘You are the doer and you are the experiencer’. In that itself, if there is a realization that ‘I am completely powerless’. And ultimately the realization will be clear that the person never existed in the first place.

It’s a huge step to come to this step of understanding that this power of choice is just not available with the person. Actually, after doership is dropped, it all becomes very, very simple; because most of our stress, most of our fear, comes from this illusion of choice making or decision making. I hope there is some more clarity about this.

Okay, the video is good.

SK says, “Fear is driving the belief in choices. Fear about future. I see that this future is illusory.”

Yes, thank you. So fear can arise momentarily, but the fear is also coming from belief in thoughts. So we are not just talking about the emotional feeling of fear; it is a sense of insecurity which is coming from belief in thoughts about the future. Whose future are we speaking about? How many more years do we have to live in this body? Another 50 years, another 60 years? It is nothing but the blink of an eye for The Timeless One. Even to say ‘the blink of an eye’ would not be correct, because for Awareness there is no movement of time.

Zurin says, “Putting all this at your feet Father.”  Very good.

Clare says, “Yes, now.”  Very good.

Lucien says, “There seems to be choosing thoughts, but the chooser cannot be found.”

Exactly, exactly. Because you-as-Consciousness are saying that ‘I am choosing this’. It’s only Consciousness’ game. So the individual chooser or decision maker cannot be found.

Clare says, “Thank you so much.”   Very welcome.

Ustreamer986 says, “Yes, thank you.”  Good, good, good, very good.

Ustreamer56 says, “Thank you. So much guilt and fear is relieved.”  Yes.

Yes, because choice making is not just this decision making. It is plagued with a lot of other remnants. It is plagued with pride. If something happens to go well, you will feel ‘I made that choice and I am so great’. If something goes badly or seems to go badly you will say ‘Oh I am guilty of making such stupid choices in my life’. So in either case, the sense of person gets stronger, the ego seems to get stronger, with this false delusion of choice making. And very simply when we look at it, with no expectation, when we just look at it, how things happen, you will see that choice making is pure illusion.

Zurin says, “Mind is saying ‘If you don’t make any choice then you will be in this situation forever; nothing will change.”

That’s why I say: Don’t try to change the mind. The mind will always come up with things like this. But even in this…, so it is saying ‘The situation will not change’. I am saying: What is wrong with the right now? Without thinking about the past or future, what is wrong with the right now? Right now has the presence of God himself. Right now is the Presence of your Being. Right now is all beauty, joy and peace. So again we say that: Fire the interpreter, don’t believe what the mind is saying about the now.

Atma says, “Surrendering to you, now here, every possible thought which will ever arise in me.”

Very good. Yes, you can say it like that, that you can hand over all thoughts all decisions, all problems, all choices; everything can be handed over to me. It is not your problem anymore. And in places like India, actually it is very well ingrained, no? The instant we call somebody a Guru means that all our problems are theirs now, theirs to deal with, without any expectation of how the life should turn out; because that is only our mind’s idea of what our lives should be. And life is not that unkind, as my Master would say, that it would fulfill your mind’s desire about what your life should be. God is not so unkind that he would fulfill only your mind’s desire for what your life should be. And you will find one day that there is so much gratitude for the way that life has turned out, because in this way you discovered your true nature, your truth, your true Self.

Ustreamer79, “Very good. All is well.”  Very good.

Atma says, “Thank you.”  Thank you.

Ustreamer56 says, “This mind is yours now.”  Thank you. Very good. Very god.

To surrender or renounce the mind is the only seeming-thing that needs to be done. Nothing else needs to be renounced. All can unfold as it is, just fire the interpreter.

Clare says, “Thank you, Ananta. I’m happy to surrender all connection to mind and identity.”  Thank you.  “All choices and decisions, and the chooser, the decider.”  Thank you. Very good.

Zurim says, “Thank you, Father.”  Thank you. Very good.

Clare says, “I whole-heartedly give you my mind.”  Very good.

SK says, “Whole life I have worked in one profession, so the identity is so much linked to this profession. There is a strong desire to quit or change the nature of job to get out of this identity.”

So this identity can be got rid of, but also get rid of the identity that you are the one who is deciding anything, or you are the one who can decide anything. Ultimately it is you-as-Consciousness that is doing all of this anyway; but if you think that you-as-a-person must decide to get rid of the identity, then first get rid of the person identity. If you can get rid of an identity, then get rid of the person identity. Then the job identity and all other identities can be taken care of later. But first you remove the person idea, throw away the person identity. And how to do that? Simple; simplest way is let go of all your thoughts. And if you feel that there is enough fire for it, then do some self-inquiry.

Atma says, “How beautiful it is to see these surrenderings from many of us.”  Yes.

Cornelia says, “I give you all my thoughts, Ananta.”  Very good. “Surrender at your feet.”

[Long silence].

Paraphrasing something that the great saint Kabir-ji had said, he said ‘Let the one who has given you this mouth worry about what food must go inside’. Which also means that if he has given you this mouth, he will take care of what food will be consumed as well. Don’t be fearful of any content that your life might show up as the future. And this does not mean that I’m advocating recklessness or you become a rebel of some sort, no. I’m only saying: Keep a neutrality about it. Just be the witnessing itself. Because either desire or aversion, either fear or recklessness both come from a personal space.

Ajnani says, “All thoughts to sangha fire.”  Very good.

Aradhana says, “Surrendering thoughts, beliefs, identities, this beingness even; even the emptiness and all there is, at your feet. Take this life and may your grace only prevail.”  Thank you. Very good, very good.

When everything that can be surrendered is surrendered, then only I remain. Only I remain; and this I is not separate from you. Therefore to say ‘you’ or ‘I’ becomes irrelevant.

So it’s very good; surrender everything that can be thrown into the fire; throw it in now. Then only pure Presence will remain.

Clare says, “Me, too.”

Prema says, “Ananta, you are the doer and you are the experiencer. This is beginning to sink in. Thank you.”

So, this ‘you’ that you are referring to is the Satguru in your own heart, and it is the same Satguru that is using this body in satsang and using these words in satsang. And if you truly surrender, then your body also can be just an instrument for the same Satguru; which is true for all of you. There is nothing special that the words must come from this mouth, or this body. When you carry only the holy Presence, then the body will also be used, and every step that you take will be satsang for all Beings that come in contact with you. And this is also a blessing for all of you.

Ajnani says, “All worries about life to sangha fire.”  Yes.

Ustreamer81 says, “Very beautiful.”  Thank you.SK says, “Thank you, Ananta. Thank you for having so much patience and love.”  It’s my full joy, full joy.

Ustreamer79 says, “So happy at your holy feet. Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, you are here.”  Thank you so much. Much love to you, too.

Very good. So if there are no burning questions, let’s spend 5 minutes in silence together. Don’t let the mind distract you now into getting back into some other activities. The silence of satsang is very beautiful.

[Silence].

Complete freedom is possible for you now. There is no doubt about your true nature here. It is your own mind which can doubt. And all doubts about the Master are ultimately just a reflection of your doubt of your own realization; your doubt about your own freedom is reflected in this way. All this is just a play for You. You are all there is. You are transcending this play and coming to your complete freedom. No object holds any meaning for you. No external circumstance has any value for you. No thought or emotion mean anything to you. You are the untouched, free One. You are the untouched free One. If there is only one thing you believe, then let it be this. You are the untouched free One.

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti. [Namaste].

Moojiji ki Jai !

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

So much love to all of you. [Sends kiss and waves].

Sangha: Moojiji ki Jai ! Anantaji ki Jai ! Thank you. Love you.

Q: “Anantaji, at work restlessness is growing, as I don’t know how to work attentively anymore. I stare at my screen, and then a friend said that ‘Make right choices if you are bored; it is your life’.”

‘Anantaji, at work restlessness is growing, as I don’t know how to work attentively anymore’. What you are probably saying is that there seems to be not so much interest now because you’ve seen that this is all a play which is unfolding, and then the vital energy is not present here for this work to flow through you. And this can happen. I have shared this story before, where for many months, there was no interest here in work; just after I met Mooji for the first time, for many months here, there was no interest in work. And then, mostly because of family’s pushing and worrying about what is going on, I wrote to Mooji and said that the family is very concerned because there is no interest in work here now. And the essence of what he wrote back was that ‘Trust this which is happening to you and life will unfold in the most beautiful way. Don’t try to force anything’.

You will find that in your letting go of this force, you will find that maybe that these energies might come back, and you might have some vital force here to do these actions, or it might not. And you might find your mouth saying the words which the Master also said. He found himself once in a situation where he told his manager, his boss ‘I quit’. But as long as you trust, all will unfold in the most beautiful way. Don’t try to predict or know beforehand what must happen. Don’t pick up the garb of a decision-maker or a choice-maker. And definitely don’t believe that it is ‘your life.’ It is your life, not as a person. It is the life of consciousness itself. It is the life of God himself.

Once you see that there is no person here, all that appears is God himself, then it is God’s problem. All that is happening is not the person’s problem. It never has been, and the person cannot do anything at all. It is like asking a dream character to come and pick up some heavy rocks. Am not sure where this example is coming from; but it is like a dream character asking, like we are asking the dream character to come and decide for us. And we have said ‘This is your life’ to the dream character. It is just not possible. And this example is not very far-fetched actually. It is not an exaggeration. We have conjured up this image of this person, and then we pretend that it is this person’s life; and when asked ‘Where is this person?’ we can never identify.

Q: “Ananta, could you talk to us about your experience of God?  I would really appreciate it with all my heart. Thank you.”

Welcome. God is here right now. This holy Presence of Beingness itself, the sense of I-Amness itself, after which this entire universe gives birth, this Holy Presence must be God.

So although it might seem blasphemous to say, in my definition, even God gives birth inside me. It is this sense of Beingness, pure Being unattached, untouched, before all other identities are born. This for me is the Immaculate Conception.

All other identities come from the root of this ‘I Am” idea. Everything else that appears, appears in relation to this ‘I Am” idea. There must be a ‘me’ for there to be a world, which is ‘my’ world, ‘my’ life, this is ‘my’ family, this is ‘my’ body, this is ‘my’ job. All our life is this play of duality, ‘my’ versus ‘the other.’ It all rests on this sense ‘I Am.’

Before this ‘I Am’ woke up, there was nothing here at all. There was only an awareness of Awareness itself. So this Holy Presence is what I would call God. And I have no problems with definitions.

So somebody says that ‘This Pure Awareness itself is God’ that is fine. And they can even use terms like ‘Spirit is born, Guru is born inside this God’ it is fine. Definitions are not important. It is not the label that we are using; but it is to validate that qualitatively this is the Pure Seeing, Pure Experiencing which is here. So it is not about the mental labeling or the concepts.

Q: “It is still a knowledge although confirmed but not permanent. Mind still forgets it at times and find myself engaged in the world like before. Still requires effort to maintain it.”

Yes. Because the mistake that you are making is you are trying to change the mind. You’re trying to really change your mind. But the mind will always only continue this way.  So if we do some strong practices and sadhana the mind may become peaceful, it might even pretend to be saying the right things for a while. But that is the effortful way.  And then the effort is constantly required. If you withdraw your belief from the mind and ultimately your attention is also withdrawn, then you will find that no matter what the mind is saying, you are unconcerned and that is freedom. So it is not freedom for the mind but freedom from the mind.

Like I say it is not freedom for the person, it is freedom from the person. Not freedom for the person, but freedom from the person. Because the person is just an idea. And the mind is always referring to you as this ‘person’ idea. And everything that we buy from the mind only therefore perpetuates this ‘person’ idea. So don’t try to reform the mind, you stay as the Self. Don’t imagine yourself to be the content of your life or the content of your mind. Yes? So that is what I mean when I say, “Stay as the Self.” It does not mean that you can become anything else. Because that self would not be true, if it is possible for you to become a non-self. So we are all speaking about an imaginary problem with an imaginary solution, ultimately.

So don’t worry about what the mind remembers or says, you are the witnessing of this mind, you cannot be anything but that.

Who had this question about expectations around the concepts of Sex and Money? So let’s take them one at a time.

We have discussed sex before, and what we have said is that if we can be neutral about this topic, it is very good. Because culturally you see that there is too much shame or there is too much sense of pride around this topic. Even if you look at some of the countries in the world, you will look at some countries where sex is looked at something to be very proud of, you know this is my score or whatever; and there are other countries where sex is tried to be hidden under the carpet.

But we can look at it as a normal bodily function and a normal bodily need just like hunger; then it will lose all the bells and whistles around it. It is just a regular normal bodily function. And in all forms of bodies, right from insects onwards, it is this way. So there is nothing special about it and there is nothing shameful about it. And if we make it about this ‘person idea’ then it becomes all this kind of confusion, all kinds of perversions, all kinds of expectations, all kinds of frustration, resentment, power games; all this can arise from this very simple bodily desire, bodily function. It does not deserve so much of our attention. And it definitely does not deserve our sense of aversion also.

And second is money. So when we spoke about the 3 – 4 most important things that play on the life of Beings. It is like this, isn’t it? It is out special relationships, it is one area of identifications; it is our family, our special relationships, our loved ones. Then it is work, business, money. So if the person was a table, and it had 3 – 4 legs, then these would be the legs that the ‘person idea’ stands on.

So personal relationships, first one; second is business, work, money; third is the body and the state of health of the body and all the things related to the body; and fourth would be ultimately the search for true purpose or the search for freedom. Even that starts as a personal idea. It is only the fourth one, the search for freedom or truth, when it comes in earnestness and with integrity, then it wipes out everything else, including the table-top also. So all this arises from the idea of being a separate individual entity.

So with this, as with everything else, let life unfold exactly the way it is meant to. And notice that I’m saying with a state of neutrality. Because many will take this idea and then take this to another personal level, where they might start becoming very irresponsible with their money or irresponsible in their relationships; we are not saying that. We are saying that you be true, you be the Truth, and let life unfold exactly how it is meant to. Don’t presume that for these topics you have to first become a person. Don’t presume that God cannot handle these topics, that ‘He can do everything else, but my sex and my money he cannot handle’.

Namaste everyone. A very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai!

Thank you for joining in. And if it’s your first time here, you may ask your questions in the chat window. And unless someone tells me otherwise we will presume that the audio and video are working fine.

Namaste, so Om is back, very good. Ajnani, very good. Shanti, very good. Namaste. Ok. Very good today. Good, good, good.

I feel it’s very good; we are going into the real meat of things. I think it’s very good that we are exploring things very deeply now. And many times we are holding ideas about concepts, even the basic concepts like attention, like belief, like identity, like consciousness; all of these we are looking at very, very deeply now. And we realize in the looking that there were some misconceptions, or possibly some confusions, around some of these topics; so we immediately believe that we understand completely. You never know what might come up, which might be very useful.

Namaste everyone once again. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

So is there any concept around which there is still some confusion? Or a lack of complete clarity? Then we can look at those.

What would you like to speak about today? Is there something you feel is important yet untouched upon in Satsang? Or is clarity now emerging so strongly that all questions are going? I would not like anything to be just a concept for you now. It must become a deeper Seeing, a deeper Knowing, a strong Understanding. Not just coming from a place of mind.

Okay, Rashmi says, “There was a storm today and then a meltdown. Didn’t know what happened, but so much peace after this.”

And if you can see that there was a storm that arose and a meltdown arose after that, and that then both these states also went away, but you are the untouched one, then that is absolutely fine. I already liked the way you put it, that there was a storm and then a meltdown, you did not say, ‘I’ was in a storm and ‘I’ was in a meltdown, which is already very good. So if you can keep this witnessing position, then all these things can come and go without anything much to worry about.

Amrita says, ‘I never know until it shows up for me externally.”

Yes, that seems to be the job of the external, or a part of the job of the external anyway, to show up what has been denied internally, or what we refuse to look at internally, or what there is fear about; then that ends up showing up externally. Because on this path, all will be transcended. We cannot take a blade of grass worth of ego into the Truth. Because that much of ego has to cause that suffering which it is meant to. That much of pretense, that much of imagination, will come with its bite. So unless all of it is completely transcended it will keep showing up externally, which is very good. Because if it didn’t show up externally then we would be in denial forever. Or it would seem like that at least.

Namaste, Namaste.

Rashmi says, “The attention was on the Awareness and that’s why the peace.”

So let’s look at this. All of us can look at this: when attention is with Awareness itself, then what is showing up as the content of this Awareness? When attention stays with Awareness itself, without going to our imagination, without going to our thoughts, what is the content that is here. Is it a state, is it a special state?

Shanti says, “I can’t think of anything.”  Yes…not serious.

Rashmi says, “And so much love felt towards you, some opening is felt.”

The development of this trust will happen, as you find more and more…, as you find that following the words there is more peace, there is more love and there is more joy, then this trust and this relationship, ultimately of Oneness will get stronger and stronger.

Lucian said something which we cannot read, it got censored.

Rashmi says, “Even the Being was in this Awareness and seemed to merge with Awareness.”

The Being can only be in this Awareness. The Being cannot be anywhere else. It is only in this Awareness where this Being must be. That’s why we say that the Being relies on you, you do not rely even on the Being.

Then Amrita says, “There is still attachment towards you.”

And it can be said that it is fine, to the one that is unattached. My Master says it is fine to be attached to one who is unattached because he will take you away from all attachments. And ultimately, when the Oneness is truly realized, then even this sense of attachment will seem irrelevant because you know that I am already you, then you will no longer even have to use the word attachment. It will just be a given. That we are One anyway.

Aryev says, “It is still a knowledge although confirmed but not permanent. Mind still forgets it at times and find myself engaged in the world like before. Still requires effort to maintain it.”

Yes. Because the mistake that you are making is you are trying to change the mind. You’re trying to really change your mind. But the mind will always only continue this way.  So if we do some strong practices and sadhana the mind may become peaceful, it might even pretend to be saying the right things for a while. But that is the effortful way.  And then the effort is constantly required. If you withdraw your belief from the mind and ultimately your attention is also withdrawn, then you will find that no matter what the mind is saying, you are unconcerned and that is freedom. So it is not freedom for the mind but freedom from the mind.

Like I say it is not freedom for the person, it is freedom from the person. Not freedom for the person, but freedom from the person. Because the person is just an idea. And the mind is always referring to you as this ‘person’ idea. And everything that we buy from the mind only therefore perpetuates this ‘person’ idea. So don’t try to reform the mind, you stay as the Self. Don’t imagine yourself to be the content of your life or the content of your mind. Yes? So that is what I mean when I say, “Stay as the Self.” It does not mean that you can become anything else. Because that self would not be true, if it is possible for you to become a non-self. So we are all speaking about an imaginary problem with an imaginary solution, ultimately.

So don’t worry about what the mind remembers or says, you are the witnessing of this mind, you cannot be anything but that.

Rashmi says, ‘It was effortless and so beautiful.”  Yes.

Jyoti says, “A question arose inside me last night that says, “Is attention real?”

If feels very great to look at this. This is very good. This is very good. So with this insight you will come to the insight that none of this has really ever happened. But at this point you cannot use words to explain. The waking insight that has emerged will make it so clear that all of this has never ever really happened at all. We have given reality to the unreal, and even this giving reality to the unreal has never really happened at all. You never even had this dream ultimately. But now we are getting to the point where words cannot explain. This has become a truer and truer insight for you. Because words are not designed for this actually. But I sense where you are coming from and it is a great contemplation. Very good.

And then you (Jyoti) say that, “I don’t know if you want to say anything about this, but the question itself here is good.”   The question itself is very good.

Atma says, (Something first which got censored). She says, “I copied it Father.” Copied what? You know my attention span right? So I don’t remember, what did you copy?

And Soham says, “What has been arising is the selling of the personality to the job market. It is so interesting to watch, marketing a dream; still all is peace.”

Yes. As long as you are not buying, and you are watching all this play go on, it is absolutely fine. You can allow life to unfold in any way, as long as we don’t confuse it to be us. Or even be happening to us. Just like we cannot say that the movie is happening to us, and I am just the watching of it. In the same way we cannot say that life is ‘happening’ to us. Life is arising out of your own light; consciousness is your own light and our life is arising out of That. As long as we are not picking up any concepts that are not true, it is absolutely fine for life to unfold in this way.

ShivMahima says, “Anantaji, Namaste.”  Namaste. Namaste.

And then, Ustreamer513 says, “Master there is a strong desire for Realization here now.” Okay. Very good. “It is painful sometimes. Just to expose this.”

Okay, so let’s stay with this. You say there is a strong desire for realization now. Okay. Very good. So stay in the Now. What is really here now? Without the past and the future, what is really here now? Is the bound person, is the non-realized person here? Or do we have to conjure up an image of this non-realized one who wants realization now? Can you show me what is bound right now?

It’s good. We will come back to this point, but I want to continue the conversation with this one who said ‘There is a strong desire for realization here now’. And we won’t even get into the rest of it. Let’s see if we can see this? This one that wants realization now, is that you? Let’s first identify this bound one, or this one that is non-free, not free. Because it is causing so much trouble, isn’t it? And if it has the power to cause suffering then we must identify it right now. So if you’re here, we can continue this conversation. Let me catch up with the rest.

ShivMahima says, “Anantaji, at work restlessness is growing, as I don’t know how to work attentively anymore. I stare at my screen, and then a friend said that ‘Make right choices if you are bored; it is your life’.”

‘Anantaji, at work restlessness is growing, as I don’t know how to work attentively anymore’. What you are probably saying is that there seems to be not so much interest now because you’ve seen that this is all a play which is unfolding, and then the vital energy is not present here for this work to flow through you. And this can happen. I have shared this story before, where for many months, there was no interest here in work; just after I met Mooji for the first time, for many months here, there was no interest in work. And then, mostly because of family’s pushing and worrying about what is going on, I wrote to Mooji and said that the family is very concerned because there is no interest in work here now. And the essence of what he wrote back was that ‘Trust this which is happening to you and life will unfold in the most beautiful way. Don’t try to force anything’.

You will find that in your letting go of this force, you will find that maybe that these energies might come back, and you might have some vital force here to do these actions, or it might not. And you might find your mouth saying the words which the Master also said. He found himself once in a situation where he told his manager, his boss ‘I quit’. But as long as you trust, all will unfold in the most beautiful way. Don’t try to predict or know beforehand what must happen. Don’t pick up the garb of a decision-maker or a choice-maker. And definitely don’t believe that it is ‘your life.’ It is your life, not as a person. It is the life of consciousness itself. It is the life of God himself.

Once you see that there is no person here, all that appears is God himself, then it is God’s problem. All that is happening is not the person’s problem. It never has been, and the person cannot do anything at all. It is like asking a dream character to come and pick up some heavy rocks. Am not sure where this example is coming from; but it is like a dream character asking, like we are asking the dream character to come and decide for us. And we have said ‘This is your life’ to the dream character. It is just not possible. And this example is not very far-fetched actually. It is not an exaggeration. We have conjured up this image of this person, and then we pretend that it is this person’s life; and when asked ‘Where is this person?’ we can never identify.

Atma says, “Sorry, it was something asked from Lucian.”  Ok, you copied that.

ShivMahima says, “But it is God’s choices in this life, not mine.”  Exactly.

Atma says, “I see the question, but you don’t.” So Lucian, can you find a way to rephrase this question? Find a way to rephrase the question and then maybe I can find a way to see it.

ShivMahima said, “How to resolve?”  Hopefully the answer was helpful to you.

FB 200 says, “Will the mind always come up for air and try to save itself from drowning in the ocean of Being that I know I am?”

Yes, the mind can keep trying to come up, but I sense a sense of interest in whether the mind is coming up or not. That means there is either a desire to see what it is trying to tell you, or some aversion to what it is showing. Be completely neutral to the content of the mind also. No aversion and no desire. Then it does not matter whether it comes up once in 10 minutes, or once in 2 hours, or once in one year, or once every 10 seconds, because you have no interest in it.

I see, so Shanti is saying, “Father, Lucia(n) wants to know about expectations around the concepts around the S word, Sex and money. Hope this doesn’t get censored.”

Yes, yes, you rephrased it, was it Lucia? Maybe it was Lucian. I don’t remember seeing Lucia today. Maybe it was Lucian who had this question about expectations around the concepts of Sex and Money. So let’s take them one at a time.

We have discussed sex before, and what we have said is that if we can be neutral about this topic, it is very good. Because culturally you see that there is too much shame or there is too much sense of pride around this topic. Even if you look at some of the countries in the world, you will look at some countries where sex is looked at something to be very proud of, you know this is my score or whatever; and there are other countries where sex is tried to be hidden under the carpet. But we can look at it as a normal bodily function and a normal bodily need just like hunger; then it will lose all the bells and whistles around it. It is just a regular normal bodily function. And in all forms of bodies, right from insects onwards, it is this way. So there is nothing special about it and there is nothing shameful about it. And if we make it about this ‘person idea’ then it becomes all this kind of confusion, all kinds of perversions, all kinds of expectations, all kinds of frustration, resentment, power games; all this can arise from this very simple bodily desire, bodily function. It does not deserve so much of our attention. And it definitely does not deserve our sense of aversion also.

And second is money. So when we spoke about the 3 – 4 most important things that play on the life of Beings. It is like this, isn’t it? It is out special relationships, it is one area of identifications; it is our family, our special relationships, our loved ones. Then it is work, business, money. So if the person was a table, and it had 3 – 4 legs, then these would be the legs that the ‘person idea’ stands on.

So personal relationships, first one; second is business, work, money; third is the body and the state of health of the body and all the things related to the body; and fourth would be ultimately the search for true purpose or the search for freedom. Even that starts as a personal idea. It is only the fourth one, the search for freedom or truth, when it comes in earnestness and with integrity, then it wipes out everything else, including the table-top also. So all this arises from the idea of being a separate individual entity.

So with this, as with everything else, let life unfold exactly the way it is meant to. And notice that I’m saying with a state of neutrality. Because many will take this idea and then take this to another personal level, where they might start becoming very irresponsible with their money or irresponsible in their relationships; we are not saying that. We are saying that you be true, you be the Truth, and let life unfold exactly how it is meant to. Don’t presume that for these topics you have to first become a person. Don’t presume that God cannot handle these topics, that ‘He can do everything else, but my sex and my money he cannot handle’.

FB200 says, “Although I don’t get too mixed up with it, I see it as rising and falling.”

We answered that. If you have no interest in it, then it can rise and fall. If you have a beach-side apartment, or a beach-side bungalow, will you be checking ‘today the waves are so high, today the waves are so low, today no waves, today high tide’. Will you be just so concerned about it? No, you are not. If you do not have the interest in it and it does not have any value for you, then it does not matter how many waves are appearing in the ocean.

Shanti says, “Sorry for the mis-typing.”   No, I understood. Good.

Lucian says, “Thanks Atma. I will write it again, with some brackets so it doesn’t get censored: Sex and money still seem to hold some promise.”

Any individual promise, any personal expectation only leads to suffering. So we had a much more detailed answer a while ago.

ShivMahima says, “Thank you, thank you, thank you, Bhagavan.”  Welcome, thank you my dear.

The true Bhagavan is the Satguru in your own heart. It is the same satguru that is using this mouth to say these words.

FB200 says, “Interest in the mind play is interest in a dream, is it?”

Of course it is. Because the mind is always referring to this dream character. We have been saying this in Satsang, the mind is not saying ‘Hey awareness, how are you doing?’ It is not saying that, is it? It is always referring to you as a dream character. Therefore, if there is some interest in what the mind is saying, there must be interest in the dream character.

Cornelia says, “It is not too easy to give up the idea of person. But it seems that sometimes it is happening by itself and it is so releasing.”

It keeps getting easier and easier, as you keep coming to Satsang, as you are in the Presence, you will find that the idea of a person becomes very soon just another thought. It becomes just another thought. And don’t expect it to completely vanish. All Beings that are here, some amount of personhood always remains, even in the awakened sages. You can say otherwise these awakened beings would have left their body long back. They would have walked into the sea saying ‘I am one with the ocean’ or jumped off a building saying ‘I am one with the sky’. This does not happen because some amount of individual identity is always retained, as long as the human body shows up. As long as the human body is showing up in this appearance, this element of some identity is bound to remain. And we have seen that with all the great sages, right from Jesus, to Ram to any Master.

So FB200 says, “So let it all come, let it all go. Just watch the dream and be the Real.”

These are questions that they are asking, and it is true. Just let it all come and let it all go and like the great Zen master said ‘Don’t serve it tea’. As Mooji says ‘Don’t give it a room to stay’. Let them come and let them go. Don’t allow them to check in. Don’t even build a toll bridge to examine their content. Don’t even judge the content, don’t say ‘Why are you saying this? Why are you not saying this? All these thoughts are so beautiful’. We do not need to say any of that.

Thank you, thank you, FB200.

Lucian says, “Thank you very much, I really love your way of responding.”  Thank you so much.

If it gets too dark in here, just let me know and I will put on some lights.

Jayani says, “Anantaji, is the body real in truth?”

No, in truth the body is not. But, even if you were to say, if you were to imagine that all this phenomena appearing is real, then even at this level the person is unreal. Because we cannot, even at this level of phenomenal reality or unreality, whatever you presume, even at this level the person is unreal.

So I have no argument with anyone who says ‘But I see the world, I see the body, it must be all real’. I have no argument with that.  But ultimately the question still is: ‘Where is this person that you believe yourself to be?’ Because the voice that is speaking is not testifying to the voice of being a body, it is only pretending to be that. And there are very simple ways to check this. When you ask in your last 10 problems, how many of those have been totally about the body? You will say maybe 1 or 2, or maybe 3 or 4, depending on the state of the body. And the majority of the problems were about what? They were about relationships, about other people and how they behave, about our own guilt about what we should have done or not done. All these are not problems that are affecting the body. All these are problems that are affecting the imaginary concept of a person.

And then when you get into this conversation, you say ‘So where is this person?’ Then you say ‘Inside’. Most beings when you are new to Satsang say ‘Inside’. Then you ask ‘Where inside?’ If a surgeon were to cut up the body would he see a person coming out? So even if we were to give reality to phenomenal appearance, that would be the same as giving reality to dream appearance. Because there is no difference between dream appearance and this so-called waking appearance. But even if you were to say the dream is real, that this state is real, even then the ‘person’ is unreal. Even then the ego is only an idea.

And even if you were to say that all this is unreal, you cannot suffer unless you pick up this idea. In fact, it is not a bad dream, all this can flow. If we do not pick up the person idea, then suffering cannot happen. Therefore, it is not imperative that we treat all this as unreal. It might be an insight which just emerges that ‘All this is just arising out of me. Out of my own being all this is arising’. But even if that insight is not there, or there is an aversion to that insight, even then suffering can stop because we find that the person is not real. The person is unreal.

Cornelia says, “Sometimes I feel compassion for this body and it comes like crying.”

Who feels that? All the doing, all the experiencing, is of Consciousness itself. You can never become the character in the dream, no matter how compelling the content of the dream is. And no matter how strongly you want to believe that you are just a character in the dream we had last night, we cannot become that. So who was doing all that which was being done by the dream body? The same consciousness. The same I-Am-ness.  In the dream also a sense first arose that ‘I am’. And then got identified by the dream body, the dream characters, the dream universe. So who was doing all of this? It is the same one who is doing this. It is that same One consciousness.

And Clare says, “Ananta, could you talk to us about your experience of God?  I would really appreciate it with all my heart. Thank you.”

Welcome. God is here right now. This holy Presence of Beingness itself, the sense of I-Amness itself, after which this entire universe gives birth, this Holy Presence must be God. So although it might seem blasphemous to say, in my definition, even God gives birth inside me. It is this sense of Beingness, pure Being unattached, untouched, before all other identities are born. This for me is the Immaculate Conception. All other identities come from the root of this ‘I am” idea. Everything else that appears, appears in relation to this ‘I am” idea. There must be a ‘me’ for there to be a world, which is ‘my’ world, ‘my’ life, this is ‘my’ family, this is ‘my’ body, this is ‘my’ job. All our life is this play of duality, ‘my’ versus ‘the other.’ It all rests on this sense ‘I am.’ Before this ‘I am’ woke up, there was nothing here at all. There was only an awareness of Awareness itself. So this Holy Presence is what I would call God. And I have no problems with definitions. So somebody says that ‘This Pure Awareness itself is God’ that is fine. And they can even use terms like ‘Spirit is born, Guru is born inside this God’ it is fine. Definitions are not important. It is not the label that we are using; but it is to validate that qualitatively this is the Pure Seeing, Pure Experiencing which is here. So it is not about the mental labeling or the concepts.

Vishwas says, “We can see you, not too dark.”

Shanti says, “Seeing my body reflected in the shiny surface of a car, I realize no image is who I am It is always distorted. If I believe that the body is actually squat and fat as in the reflection, I would suffer so much.” Yes. “My greatest challenge now is how this body looks. I realize the image will appear which I am most concerned with. I am sure now that whatever appears, I am not that.” Very good. “I am formless and weightless.”

So if this is what you believe, and this is in your true experience, that you are that beyond the body, you are that in which the appearance of the body appears, then the previous statement cannot be true, that is ‘My greatest challenge now is how this body looks’. You are saying that it would be, if you were to believe you are the body then your greatest challenge would seem like that.

Cornelia says, “Thank you, thank you.”  Thank you my dear.

Jayani says, “Not sure how to explain this, but body is clearly seen as unreal, and strong energies experienced, when all drops into nothing. Body doesn’t work, arms and hands very weak; some fear arises.”

It’s all fine. Let is arise. If this is the way it must play out in your journey, then let it all arise in this way. Don’t judge it, in fact trust it. Mooji is taking care of your life now, so don’t worry about all of this appearing and disappearing.

FB200 says, “Is it right to say, that to stay present in this moment is to be with God, and this is the only way to do this?”

‘Is it right to say, that to stay present in this moment, is to be with God?’ You must tell that answer of this. Just stay in this moment and tell me: what is here now? Because if God is real, then he must be ever-present; in this Now, he must be here. I must not need to look for him here and there. So just be in the Now; don’t imagine the future, don’t worry about the past. Just stay in the now and tell me: what is here now?

“But is it a non-doing?”

You don’t worry about the intellectual answer. You can do it, you can be in the Now. Don’t worry whether it’s a doing or a non-doing, just stay here and tell me: what is here in this moment?

Louise says, “Father, the mind is feeling pretty disappointed at the emptiness or the simplicity of the truth. It had so many ideas. The other night, in silence and grace I heard it say ‘Is this all? This is it?’…”

Yes. The mind will always play these tricks. That’s why I said earlier in Satsang that don’t expect the mind to change. Don’t expect the leopard to change its spots. It will still find buttons it can push. So this one might be a button for you, where there must have been some identification with something called ‘the realized state’ or ‘the freedom state’ or some expectation. That some fireworks, that something special should happen, which is freedom. But the mind will never testify to your freedom. And don’t be concerned about what the mind is saying. Without your belief or interest in it, it can have no power over you. The mind says so many things.

Now it’s getting really dark, okay I will put on some lights after this answer.

 The mind says so many things, isn’t it? Do we hang on to everything that the mind says? Do we testify to everything the mind says? No. It is only something which we feel has some bite, some venom, some meaning or some value. Therefore, see if there is any identification with this so called enlightened state, with the idea of an enlightened state. And then when it is said that you’ve always been this, then obviously this idea is contrary to the special state of enlightenment. So it is very good that this is showing up for you. You can use this to investigate whether there is any identification with the awakened state.

Let me get some lights on. (Steps away and returns on switching on lights). Okay, so now it’s better?

Jayani says, “Wanted to expose this subtle fear.”   Yes.

Louise says, “This is it? As in..is this it? How dull.”

Yes. That’s why I always ask: what should happen that would convince your mind of your freedom? What is required to happen? What other miracle now needs to happen? Should we have the power to convert water into wine? Should you have the ability now to walk on water? Even with this, I can promise you, the mind will be unconvinced. It will only say ‘Wow you are such a special person now’.  It will still not refer to you as Awareness. No matter which miracle happens. Already our life is such a beautiful miracle. Even the simplest thing….like who would have imagined a few years ago, that we could have this conversation across so many continents so beautifully? No? Isn’t this a beautiful miracle? Isn’t Consciousness the Creator of all of this beauty? But the mind is still unconvinced, because that is its nature. It is born to serve only the idea of the person. It can only refer to you as a person. So don’t expect it to change, let it say whatever it wants. It’s not happy. It’s not in its nature to be happy. It can only pretend to be happy.

Jayani says, “Thank you Anantaji, all is His, all is Him. Om Namah Shivaya.”  Good.

Cornelia says, “Restless mind settles down when I see you and hear your voice. Thank you so much, Anantaji.”

Thank you so much for being here. It’s very beautiful to have you all here.

Ustreamer96 says, “Nothing needs to happen.”  Exactly.

Ustreamer513 says, “Thank you Master, there is a storm here, but it is seen.”

There is literally a storm in front of me [Smiles, pointing outside the window]. There is literally a storm and it is seen, in the same way. The content might seem different, the storm here [pointing inwards], storm here [indicating storm outside], all same. You cannot be anything but just the witnessing of it. Very good.

Clare says, “It is such a beautiful miracle.”

That’s why my Master said, and I hope all of you have seen this video, otherwise we could share it on the Sangha of Being site, he said the greatest mantra is ‘Thank you’. No matter what comes, all we must say is ‘Thank you.’ He says ‘Life kicks you in the face, what do you have to say? Thank you’. Because we may not be grateful then, but we realize soon that even the kicking was pure grace, which will ultimately bring us to our complete freedom.

Atma says, “Yes, Consciousness is the Creator of all.”

Shanti says, “Love you so much dear Father. Thank you for your giving us this time for exploring our true nature.”   Thank you so much. This is my Pure Joy to do this. “You point unerringly towards that.”

Ustreamer96 says, “This is so beautiful.”  Very good.

Vasu says, “Thank you Anantaji.”  Very good. Very good.

Soham says, “Thank you Father, so much love to you.”  It’s good to have you back.

Rashmi says, “Yes I love the storm in Bangalore.”  Much needed rains in this country.

Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone. Thank you Jyoti, Atma, Ustreamer96.

Louise says, “Seem to be noticing all the ideas that I believe these days, Father; ones gone or weakened, and ones still arising.”

So good. Very good. We will be able to see all these ideas from a distance now. It will be very difficult to give them identity. It will be very difficult to give them belief. In fact, most of the time, you will laugh at the absurdity of these ideas. They are just so absurd. Very good.

FB200 says, “It is felt that the outside is surrendered to the inside. Thank you.”  Very good.

Thank you, thank you, Ajnani, Ustreamer 96, Lucian, thank you. Thank you all so very much. Thank you. So much love, so much love. Love you all so very much.

Thank you so very much for joining in Satsang today.

Moojiji Ki Jai. [Namaste].  Thank you.

Sangha: Moojiji ki Jai Anantaji ki Jai ! Thank you. Love you.

Q: “Giving attention to a thought, is it not having interest in it?”

We will look at exactly this now. So if it is clear, the difference between attention and belief, let’s look at this now. So to not give belief to something is to say that I have no interest in it. To not give belief to something is to say that I have no interest in it; a neutral state. So this thought came that ‘I must buy some new clothes’. There was no interest in it, not even interest enough to have an aversion in it. So notice that I am saying neutrality. I am not saying yes or no. Because either yes or no would mean that you are interested in the content of the thought; but to just let it come and let it go is neutrality. Because if we say yes then it is a desire, and if we say no it becomes an aversion. So this is the difference between a desire and an aversion.

Yes, so when we say that there is no interest, it means that there is no desire to give a belief to any thought that is arising. Then what happens? So this same thought can keep coming back. And initially I don’t say withdraw your attention from it, because attention can play this monkey game. Attention can play the monkey game. So I say ‘Don’t think of a pink elephant’. Immediately your attention is going to an image of a pink elephant. And the more you try to stop and say ‘No, no, no, no pink elephant’ the more the pink elephant stays. So attention can play this monkey game. But belief is easier to handle. It can say ‘No, I am not a pink elephant’. And no matter how many times a thought might come and say you are a pink elephant, you will not believe it. But if I say ‘Don’t give attention to the visual of a pink elephant’ then attention seems to go there; except for maybe very experienced yogis and meditators, this is how it will happen.

But what happens is as we keep withdrawing our belief from it, and we stay in the state of neutrality, we will find that automatically attention doesn’t go to it. It’s like if you have the same visitor over and over, initially you might be a little hospitable to them, but if they keep coming back every ten minutes, then you will just start ignoring. Like if you go into a wildlife sanctuary, and suppose there are many, many tigers there. So when you see the first tiger you will have a lot of belief that you wanted to see this tiger, and your attention will go strongly to it. But as you keep withdrawing your belief from it then, as we have seen too many of these tigers, your attention will also stop going to them. You will probably start thinking about lunch.

So this much is clear now? That attention seems to be a bit of the monkey mind, and belief seems to be easier to manage? To withdraw our belief from something seems like an easier step than to pull our attention away from something. And also it must be seen now that without our attention there is no possibility of believing anything about it anyway. If it doesn’t come into our attention, if the thought is not in our attention, there is no concept of a belief in that thought anyway. So attention must come first, and belief must come second.

Okay. So in just this much understanding, to say that ‘I will not give my belief to any thought’ is freedom from suffering itself. Just in this much is the freedom from suffering.

Another Q:  “Attention, is it not a form of interest?”

So that’s what we said, that because so much belief has gone into the concept that ‘I need something or I need this or I need that’, so much belief around something, that when that something arises then that interest in the form of our belief system then perpetuates our being with that. So if there is no belief around it then it will be allowed to just come and go. But if there is a belief structure around something, it means that something still has value or meaning for me; then that is what we mean by interest, and then our attention sticks. But when we withdraw our belief from it then we will find that attention will not stick.

So interest is another way of saying that there is a belief that ‘There is something in this for me, there is a meaning in this for me, or there is a value in this for me’. And in that, there is a birth of a me, birth of an individual ‘me’ which is not the true me. Is this clear? This is an excellent question. Interest is another form of saying that ‘I believe there is some meaning or value for me’ but that is a belief. Therefore I will not say that attention is a form of interest, I will say that attention goes more strongly when there is a feeling of value or interest to me. Or attention stays more strongly when this feeling of value of interest is there, but this feeling of value or interest is based on belief.

Another Q: “Yes, when attention doesn’t want to let go, withdrawing belief takes its power away…,”   Yes. “…and opens awareness, you can say.”   Yes.

Another Q: “Mooji once said something like ‘We don’t buy or purchase thoughts’.”

He says that we should not buy or purchase thoughts. They will audition for our attention but we don’t buy them.

Another Q: “Just want to confirm something. At some point I heard that functional thinking is okay and the mind grabbed a hold of this; and I attach belief to to-do’s excessively at times. Something is still sticking to being the doer of the to-do’s.”   Yes.

That’s why I very rarely say this. That’s why I say initially it is okay to say that ‘I am not going to believe any thought at all, and let life unfold exactly the way it has to’. Like my Master says, the mind is not your friend; not yet. And don’t believe your mind’s testimony for when it is your friend or not, let your Master tell you. So what you have to do is let go of all thoughts and all fear about how life will unfold; let go of all thoughts and let all actions unfold for the body as they are naturally happening in a neutral state. Don’t have any desire or aversion. I am not saying that you just sit on the bed; that is a typical reaction that will come. I’m saying just be completely neutral and let life unfold as it does without you giving any belief to any thought. And if the mind is saying that ‘This is not possible’ then you experiment with it; and you tell me after experimenting with it that ‘I tried this for a day, but it is not possible’.  Yes?

Another Q: “In having thought, is it not already some unconscious belief?”

You can say that it comes from a subconscious place, or the karmic kosha, or the kosha of our karmas; all these things can be said. But ultimately the truth is that we are not the creators of our thoughts. We as individuals are not the creators of anything at all, but specifically for this discussion we can say of our thoughts. So just out of the blue some thoughts will come. A thought could come that ‘I want to go to London for my next vacation’. Before this thought appeared for the first time, there was no belief around it, and now when this came and we said ‘Yes’ then it becomes a desire. When we said ‘No, I don’t want to go’ it becomes an aversion. And neutrality means this thought is allowed to come and go.

You want to look at another example? So suppose you looked at…, we had an example earlier of buying new clothes. We have looked at something in the shop window, there was no belief around this shirt in the shop window, but when we saw it then a thought came that ‘I must have it’ or ‘I never want to wear something like this’. Both have the potential to create a desire or an aversion. But if it is just allowed to come and allowed to go then there is no belief around it.

Another Q: “I throw all habits to believe things into the fire of satsang.”   Very good.

Another Q: “How to make decisions? I am struggling to make a decision between two jobs. How to follow the heart?”   Yes.

You as an individual cannot decide anything anyway. Life is already deciding for you. Don’t try to decide, just drop all decision making, and life will unfold exactly the way it is meant to. What you might experience in this is a fear about what is going to happen; and that takes some trust. So trust in Guru, trust in God that life will unfold exactly the way it is meant to; not in the way that your mind wants it to. But the decision of a non-entity, which means a decision of the personhood, does not exist anyway, is not relevant to how your life is going to flow. It is only the illusory way of keeping the false identity alive; this choice-making and decision-making is just that. But if this becomes too difficult to understand, I can say what Bhagavan said. Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi said that if you believe in choice, then the only choice you must have is to let go of your thoughts. That is the only choice you must make. And ultimately you will see that even this happening was all grace. There was no individual entity here to do even this.

Another Q: “What about ‘I’ thought? If there is no belief or attention, is that freedom?”

‘What about this ‘I’ thought?’ If you give no attention or belief to this ‘I’ thought, then this is freedom. Because at the root of all suffering is this identification with the individual person. All thoughts are referring to you as a person. No thought is saying ‘As awareness, can you do this?’ All problems are just thoughts about a person; all suffering is thoughts about a person. So, if the root itself is gone, which is that this personal belief of this personal identity is gone, then that is freedom. Because when thoughts will come and speak, they are speaking to someone that is not there at all. You know that that is not there, therefore no belief can go to them.

Another Q: “Anantaji, attention seems to be doing its own thing. Not believing is definitely easier, as the attention is hard to focus on something particular.”

Exactly. Exactly what I’ve been saying, that attention has a bit of this monkey tendency, and it will want to do the opposite of what we want it to do. If we want to control it, it will jump around more. But belief seems more manageable. Therefore, it is just enough to say that ‘I will not believe the content of my thoughts’. That is enough. Then the rest will take care of itself.

Another Q: “Who is the ‘I’ that does not believe in the thoughts?”  Very good.

So, we see that in pure seeing, in this only-pure-seeing, that there are not even these powers of attention and belief. It is after the birth of the Being; or it can be said concurrently with the birth of the Being, when Consciousness gives birth, then these powers of attention and belief are given birth as well, concurrently. Therefore we can say that Consciousness itself is giving attention or is giving belief. It is Consciousness itself.

Another Q: “It is possible.”  Okay, I’ve forgotten what the question was; probably was a while ago.

Another Q: “Thank you, Father, for the guidance. Okay, I will experiment with this.”  Very good.

Let all things unfold on their own.

Another Q: “I expose that there is still belief that I am responsible for my brother and mother’s suffering. With my brother, it seems I try too hard. And with my mother, there is blame that I’m a burden to her, because for quite a while I don’t make any money. I lay this at your feet.”

Thank you. This is very powerful. This is very powerful because not only are you not denying it, that this exists here, that this comes up and has some meaning, and value and belief has been given to it; you’re willing to shine your light on this. And second, you’re willing to expose it in satsang. This is very powerful. And with this shining it in your light, and in this exposing it in this fire of satsang, this will not last. It might come at you strongly; the mind might play this trump card strongly. But if you just keep this stance of witnessing it, and exposing it every time it is coming up, then it cannot last. It’s very good.

Alright, I am back here now, if you can let me know if you can hear me. Is it back live and can you hear me now? Okay Jytoti says, “All is fine now.” Ana, “Yes.” Alright, excellent, alright okay.

Namaste once again. A very warm welcome to satsang today.

Moojiji ki Jai !

Excellent. So much trouble to get the audio working, and actually nothing to say. And for many of you who have been in satsang for a while now, I can’t even imagine what is left to be heard for any of you. For me, all of you are the pure Self itself. But if you are believing something to the contrary, you can say it here, and we can look at it together. Good.

Jyoti says, “I love you so much that I just like to see you every day.”  Yes. Same / same.

The starting point of all of this is the fact that you are aware. Awareness is the starting point, and you already know that you are aware; you already know that. Without this awareness, is anything else possible at all? Okay, quite a bit of chat.

Aradhana says, “Being in your presence is bliss.”  Thank you.

Ustreamer43 says, “Hello Ananta. Have I understood it right, that when I don’t believe in whatever the interpreter is saying, and only ‘listen’ to him, then I am ignoring him? And when I believe in whatever…”

We will wait for Ustreamer43 to finish their question. But we have already said ‘When I don’t believe in whatever the interpreter is saying, and only listen to him’… In the sense of that only attention seems to be with that, but we are not giving our belief to it? So first, it is very good that you brought this up because: can all of us distinguish between these two apparent forces? Can you distinguish between attention and belief? Is it absolutely clear for all of you? What is the difference between attention and belief?

Jyoti says, “…and like I said on the chat, to see the love in your eyes is amazing and beautiful and well worth getting up early for.”  Thank you so much.

Yes, so if there is someone here for whom the difference between attention and belief is also not clear.., not as an intellectual understanding but just as a clear seeing… Like this is attention, it flows like this [Ananta moves his head and demonstrates looking around him]. Attention can be given to some things and attention seems to be in limited supply, so we can not give our attention to too many things at the same time. So we say ‘Awareness is unlimited, totally open; yet attention is limited’. So let’s take an example. Look at what’s in front of you and just completely give your attention to what is in front of you, and then try to give your attention to a thought at the same time. Can you do it? And you will notice that when attention is given to thought, you will find that the vision is becoming a little blurry, because attention is being withdrawn from that.

Very good. Lots of questions are coming up about attention and belief, so let’s really investigate this today. Because we use these terms very often, it is good to have a clarity about it; it’s very good. So we try experimenting with this. We say we pay attention to something completely in the outside realm, in the external objects, and then can we perceive a thought, can we understand a thought? Can we try this experiment now? And you can share what you discover.

I have seen your questions, Ustreamer50 and Louise. So let’s do the experiment together and we can share our own conclusions about whether it is the same or it is different.

So right now, what are we doing? We are focusing on an internal object, and then we are saying that let us perceive a thought at the same time. You will see that when your attention moves to the thought, then the external vision seems to get blurry. Yes, Rashmi, I have seen your question as well. First let’s do this, then we will come to that.

How many different things can we pay attention to at the same time?

So Amaya says, “Women much more easily hold many things in awareness, all-around vision. Where men focus singularly, say studies.”  Yes.

Yes, it’s true they say men find it more difficult to multitask, and women are natural multi-taskers. But what is the conclusion from this exercise? Can you look at your computer screen, completely be with that, and also understand what a thought is saying at the same time? No, I do not believe that this difference will be there between men and women. Yes, but the ability is that it does seem to be there between my wife and myself as well; and I find that she is able to multitask much better than I am, that is true.

Stacy says, “Yes, get completely absorbed by thought during the experiment.”   Yes.

Wiebeke says, “Only one thing at a time.”   Yes.

Ustreamer91 says, “Only you.”

Dee says, “No, it is only one or the other.”

Amrita says, “It is only one thing at a time.”

“No, no sir.”  Yes.

Very good, very good. So attention is in limited supply, and actually we get very tired mentally when [break in the video] because trying to do something. Especially if you have two or three kids and they are asking for your attention, that is when the agitation appears because attention is not unlimited.

Stacy says, “I used to think I could multitask, but that was made up. I am an awful multi-tasker.”

Amaya says, “Must answer ‘yes’. Can hold so much in awareness at once when try.”

Rashmi says, “No broadcast,”

Ajnani says, “One thing at a time.”  Very good.

Amaya says, “Not trying to be difficult; just really true for me. Musicians also hear so many notes, instruments together.”

So like they say, the exception makes the rule, so we can say that Amaya is the exception in this case; and it is very much because there is no way of concluding that this is absolutely untrue. So let’s just say that in the general case, attention is limited in this way, and we can not focus on both an external object completely with full focus, and then think a thought at the same time or pay attention to a thought at the same time.

Okay, so we seem to be having technical difficulties, but it’s a very interesting conversation, so let’s stay with this. It is very interesting to discuss this. So now we have some idea about what attention is, isn’t it? This force which is difficult to describe in words but which has the ability to narrow the power of perceiving down to particular things which are appearing, and seem to carry this input back to us.

Lucien says, “I am also curious if women are somehow different, but I really don’t think so.”

That’s okay, that’s okay. Because ultimately if multiple things can be gathered in some attention, then also we will get to the difference between attention and belief. But is this attention completely clear now for everyone?

Louise, is it seen what we are talking about, when we say attention? Okay, so Louise is here. She says, “Father it seems impossible with effort for me to even get the attention away from thought.”  Okay, that’s fine for now. That’s fine for now.

Amaya says, “Oh, it’s true. The most multi-aware necessities do silence thoughts; and consciousness does it all.”  Okay.

Amrita says, “The example of how an OS operating system works comes to me. Resources are given to only one application at a time, though it seems like many apps are running at the same time. Not sure anymore if that is correct.”  Yes.

Only one CPU cycle can run at a time in every processor, so only one application for that instant of time is given the space, yes. That’s a good example; for techies like us, at least.

Okay, so attention is completely clear now. So if something comes into our attention, does that mean that we have believed something? What is the belief?  If something is just given our attention, does that mean that we have believed it? So if this book is coming to my attention, does that mean that there is a belief about it already? Can we look and try? Anything, it could be external or internal.

Dee says, “No.”  Yes.

Stacy says, “No, belief is saying yes to the thought.”

So belief only means that there is a separate sort of energy which has the ability to say yes, or to say nothing at all, or to say no. So when a thought comes that ‘I must buy myself some new clothes’ a thought could be ‘I must buy myself some new clothes’ and then you can say yes to it, you can say nothing to it, you can just go, or you can say no to it. This much is clear?

Dee says, “Belief seems to be secondary.”   Yes.

Ustreamer91 says, “All coming and going.”  Okay.

Jyoti says, “If we believe something, can we still be aware that we are aware?”

If we believe something…, yes. I want to buy some new clothes, I believed that, but still I am aware that I am aware.

“Is belief same as identification?” We will come to that, just remind me if we don’t come to that. We will come to that.

Wiebeke says, “No, belief means giving a meaning to something.” Very good, very good.

So, many of you say ‘yes’. Clear. Yes, very good.

Ustreamer42 says, “The thought itself is it not personal?”

The thought could be personal, it could be anything at all. Right now we are looking at the attention and the belief to it. The thought is always referring to you as if you are a person, that is true. But until it is believed, it has no potential to cause any damage or any suffering. And so, do not be in this misunderstanding that freedom means that thoughts should stop arising. Thoughts will keep arising. They could be much slower, but they will keep arising; but they will lose all their power. And we are looking at that process of them losing their power. Okay, very clear, good, good, good. Alright.

So we have looked at attention and we have looked at belief. Now if there is anyone who is unclear at this point, please point it out. Because now we will get into what actually happens. Once we have understood these, we can get into what actually happens. So if it is unclear, just point it out. I don’t mind looking at it together again, because this is very useful. And we will remember to take the question about identification in a while. Belief versus identification, we will look at that also in a while.

Amrita says, “Ananta, does it also happen like this? We believe thoughts but don’t bother with the content, hence it has lost it’s power over us, hence no suffering. Is that okay, or no?”

So let’s look at this statement. You say ‘We believe thoughts but don’t bother with the content’. You mean with the content of what ? With the content of the thought? We cannot believe a thought without bothering with the content of the thought. It is the content which we are believing. So if we say that ‘I must buy some new clothes’ it becomes a belief only when we give our agreement to this, we give our concurrence to this and we believe that this is true.

Ustreamer42 says, “Giving attention to a thought, is it not having interest in it?”

We will look at exactly this now. So if it is clear, the difference between attention and belief, let’s look at this now. So to not give belief to something is to say that I have no interest in it. To not give belief to something is to say that I have no interest in it; a neutral state. So this thought came that ‘I must buy some new clothes’. There was no interest in it, not even interest enough to have an aversion in it. So notice that I am saying neutrality. I am not saying yes or no. Because either yes or no would mean that you are interested in the content of the thought; but to just let it come and let it go is neutrality. Because if we say yes then it is a desire, and if we say no it becomes an aversion. So this is the difference between a desire and an aversion.

Yes, so when we say that there is no interest, it means that there is no desire to give a belief to any thought that is arising. Then what happens? So this same thought can keep coming back. And initially I don’t say withdraw your attention from it, because attention can play this monkey game. Attention can play the monkey game. So I say ‘Don’t think of a pink elephant’. Immediately your attention is going to an image of a pink elephant. And the more you try to stop and say ‘No, no, no, no pink elephant’ the more the pink elephant stays. So attention can play this monkey game. But belief is easier to handle. It can say ‘No, I am not a pink elephant’. And no matter how many times a thought might come and say you are a pink elephant, you will not believe it. But if I say ‘Don’t give attention to the visual of a pink elephant’ then attention seems to go there; except for maybe very experienced yogis and meditators, this is how it will happen.

But what happens is as we keep withdrawing our belief from it, and we stay in the state of neutrality, we will find that automatically attention doesn’t go to it. It’s like if you have the same visitor over and over, initially you might be a little hospitable to them, but if they keep coming back every ten minutes, then you will just start ignoring. Like if you go into a wildlife sanctuary, and suppose there are many, many tigers there. So when you see the first tiger you will have a lot of belief that you wanted to see this tiger, and your attention will go strongly to it. But as you keep withdrawing your belief from it then, as we have seen too many of these tigers, your attention will also stop going to them. You will probably start thinking about lunch.

So this much is clear now? That attention seems to be a bit of the monkey mind, and belief seems to be easier to manage? To withdraw our belief from something seems like an easier step than to pull our attention away from something. And also it must be seen now that without our attention there is no possibility of believing anything about it anyway. If it doesn’t come into our attention, if the thought is not in our attention, there is no concept of a belief in that thought anyway. So attention must come first, and belief must come second.

Okay. So in just this much understanding, to say that ‘I will not give my belief to any thought’ is freedom from suffering itself. Just in this much is the freedom from suffering.

Ustreamer42 says, “Attention, is it not a form of interest?”

So that’s what we said, that because so much belief has gone into the concept that ‘I need something or I need this or I need that’, so much belief around something, that when that something arises then that interest in the form of our belief system then perpetuates our being with that. So if there is no belief around it then it will be allowed to just come and go. But if there is a belief structure around something, it means that something still has value or meaning for me; then that is what we mean by interest, and then our attention sticks. But when we withdraw our belief from it then we will find that attention will not stick.

So interest is another way of saying that there is a belief that ‘There is something in this for me, there is a meaning in this for me, or there is a value in this for me’. And in that, there is a birth of a me, birth of an individual me which is not the true me. Is this clear? This is an excellent question. Interest is another form of saying that ‘I believe there is some meaning or value for me’ but that is a belief. Therefore I will not say that attention is a form of interest, I will say that attention goes more strongly when there is a feeling of value or interest to me. Or attention stays more strongly when this feeling of value of interest is there, but this feeling of value or interest is based on belief.

Amaya says, “Yes, when attention doesn’t want to let go, withdrawing belief takes its power away…,”   Yes. “…and opens awareness, you can say.”   Yes.

Jyoti says, “Mooji once said something like ‘We don’t buy or purchase thoughts’.”

He says that we should not buy or purchase thoughts. They will audition for our attention but we don’t buy them.

Stacy says, “Just want to confirm something. At some point I heard that functional thinking is okay and the mind grabbed a hold of this; and I attach belief to to-do’s excessively at times. Something is still sticking to being the doer of the to-do’s.”   Yes.

That’s why I very rarely say this. That’s why I say initially it is okay to say that ‘I am not going to believe any thought at all, and let life unfold exactly the way it has to’. Like my Master says, the mind is not your friend; not yet. And don’t believe your mind’s testimony for when it is your friend or not, let your Master tell you. So what you have to do is let go of all thoughts and all fear about how life will unfold; let go of all thoughts and let all actions unfold for the body as they are naturally happening in a neutral state. Don’t have any desire or aversion. I am not saying that you just sit on the bed; that is a typical reaction that will come. I’m saying just be completely neutral and let life unfold as it does without you giving any belief to any thought. And if the mind is saying that ‘This is not possible’ then you experiment with it; and you tell me after experimenting with it that ‘I tried this for a day, but it is not possible’.  Yes?

Ustreamer142 says, “In having thought, is it not already some unconscious belief?”

You can say that it comes from a subconscious place, or the karmic kosha, or the kosha of our karmas; all these things can be said. But ultimately the truth is that we are not the creators of our thoughts. We as individuals are not the creators of anything at all, but specifically for this discussion we can say of our thoughts. So just out of the blue some thoughts will come. A thought could come that ‘I want to go to London for my next vacation’. Before this thought appeared for the first time, there was no belief around it, and now when this came and we said ‘Yes’ then it becomes a desire. When we said ‘No, I don’t want to go’ it becomes an aversion. And neutrality means this thought is allowed to come and go.

You want to look at another example? So suppose you looked at…, we had an example earlier of buying new clothes. We have looked at something in the shop window, there was no belief around this shirt in the shop window, but when we saw it then a thought came that ‘I must have it’ or ‘I never want to wear something like this’. Both have the potential to create a desire or an aversion. But if it is just allowed to come and allowed to go then there is no belief around it.

Clare says, “I throw all habits to believe things into the fire of satsang.”   Very good.

SK77 says, “How to make decisions? I am struggling to make a decision between two jobs. How to follow the heart?”   Yes.

You as an individual cannot decide anything anyway. Life is already deciding for you. Don’t try to decide, just drop all decision making, and life will unfold exactly the way it is meant to. What you might experience in this is a fear about what is going to happen; and that takes some trust. So trust in Guru, trust in God that life will unfold exactly the way it is meant to; not in the way that your mind wants it to. But the decision of a non-entity, which means a decision of the personhood, does not exist anyway, is not relevant to how your life is going to flow. It is only the illusory way of keeping the false identity alive; this choice-making and decision-making is just that. But if this becomes too difficult to understand, I can say what Bhagavan said. Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi said that if you believe in choice, then the only choice you must have is to let go of your thoughts. That is the only choice you must make. And ultimately you will see that even this happening was all grace. There was no individual entity here to do even this.

Ustream380 says, “What about ‘I’ thought? If there is no belief or attention, is that freedom?”

‘What about this ‘I’ thought?’ If you give no attention or belief to this ‘I’ thought, then this is freedom. Because at the root of all suffering is this identification with the individual person. All thoughts are referring to you as a person. No thought is saying ‘As awareness, can you do this?’ All problems are just thoughts about a person; all suffering is thoughts about a person. So, if the root itself is gone, which is that this personal belief of this personal identity is gone, then that is freedom. Because when thoughts will come and speak, they are speaking to someone that is not there at all. You know that that is not there, therefore no belief can go to them.

Louise says, “Anantaji, attention seems to be doing it’s own thing. Not believing is definitely easier, as the attention is hard to focus on something particular.”

Exactly. Exactly what I’ve been saying, that attention has a bit of this monkey tendency, and it will want to do the opposite of what we want it to do. If we want to control it, it will jump around more. But belief seems more manageable. Therefore, it is just enough to say that ‘I will not believe the content of my thoughts’. That is enough. Then the rest will take care of itself.

Ustreamer142 says, “Who is the ‘I’ that does not believe in the thoughts?”  Very good.

So, we see that in pure seeing, in this only-pure-seeing, that there are not even these powers of attention and belief. It is after the birth of the Being; or it can be said concurrently with the birth of the Being, when Consciousness gives birth, then these powers of attention and belief are given birth as well, concurrently. Therefore we can say that Consciousness itself is giving attention or is giving belief. It is Consciousness itself.

Rashmi says, “It is possible.”  Okay, I’ve forgotten what the question was; probably was a while ago.

Stacy says, “Thank you, Father, for the guidance. Okay, I will experiment with this.”  Very good.

Let all things unfold on their own.

Lucian says, “I expose that there is still belief that I am responsible for my brother and mother’s suffering. With my brother, it seems I try too hard. And with my mother, there is blame that I’m a burden to her, because for quite a while I don’t make any money. I lay this at your feet.”   Thank you.

This is very powerful. This is very powerful because not only are you not denying it, that this comes up and has some meaning, and value and belief has been given to it; you’re willing to shine your light on this. And second, you’re willing to expose it in satsang. This is very powerful. And with this shining it in your light, and in this exposing it in this fire of satsang, this will not last. It might come at you strongly; the mind might play this trump card strongly. But if you just keep this stance of witnessing it, and exposing it every time it is coming up, then it cannot last. It’s very good.

Okay, Jyoti has an interesting one, she says, “Is it possible to believe something, if it is in my attention, if I don’t believe I believe it?”

‘Is it possible to believe something that is in my attention if I don’t believe I believe it?’ You’ll have to take an example. Let’s take an example so it is clearer. Okay, you have an example:

She says, “Like if someone else says that I am believing something, but I feel I can see clearly, and I am not believing.”

So, there was a concept that you know that you are not believing. But someone else can say that you’re believing it. It is our own testimony from our heart’s testimony; there is something here, a neutral space here, from which all this can be seen. It will be completely clear to you what you are believing or not. And the wonderful thing about life is that all our beliefs will get exposed. All our beliefs will get exposed in the form of the suffering that they bring. And that is why I say suffering is pure grace; because when suffering comes, it unfolds, it unravels what is the belief system, also some concepts which we are still holding onto. So when suffering comes, don’t say suffering should not come. Only say that ‘What is it that is still being held onto? What identity is still being held onto, that this suffering is still here?’ Very good.

Okay, so this reminds me that we have to look at belief and identity; what’s the difference? So, the identity is nothing but a set of beliefs. The identity is a set of beliefs; that ‘I am honest. I am good. I am Indian. I am a man.’ All of this becomes the identity. And the more we nourish these beliefs, the stronger this portion of the identity becomes. So, if somebody has so nourished this fact that they are so honest, and somebody comes and says ‘You are a liar’ then that causes the most suffering.

Amaya says, “Surrendering those ideas about multi-tasking. The only way to hear all the notes, etc., is to NOT hold a thought; and even lots going on at once is one response per moment. Thank you. I see what you are saying now…,”  It’s very good.  “…and how it is Consciousness doing it, with no need for thoughts about it.”   Very good.

Ustreamer142 says, “I expose that I’m attracted to be clever and argue in spiritual matters, and feel proud. I put it at your feet.”  This is very, very good.

This is very, very good, because the spiritual ego can be the most difficult to expose. Therefore, there must be something which is felt in the heart which allows you to say this very powerful statement. It’s very beautiful. [Silence, eyes closed]. Very nice.

Jyoti says, “Thank you. I see this, but I don’t want to be confused at all, so to hear it from your mouth is good.”  Yes. That’s good.

Amaya says, “Am so grateful. It doesn’t matter about concepts anymore, thanks to you. 3-2-1 drop it.”  Very good.

Atma says, “Thank you, Father. All is so simple. I love simple things.”  Same here. Same. “It’s all so simple and clear.”

Ustreamer891 says, “As you say, suffering is pure grace. Beautiful satsang. Thank you.”  Thank you, my dear.

Jyoti says, “And also, to believe something at all, I must first believe in a separate individual. Is that right?”

Yes. Because what happens is, a thought can only refer to you as an individual; even if it is saying the most powerful thing. Like we spoke about spiritual ego earlier? It is still saying that as a person, you have understood something. It is still saying that as a person, you are spiritually evolved. It is still saying that as a person, you have understood much more than anyone else. So a thought does not refer to you as a Being; as Being. And it does not definitely refer to you as Awareness itself, because Awareness it cannot fathom at all. Therefore, if we are believing a thought, we are first believing the person idea. Very good.

Amaya says, “Thank you. Surrender everything.”  Very good, very good.

Clare says, “I expose all under-currents of neediness.”   Very good.

Ustreamer142 says, “Thank you for your love and patience with this imagined person.”  Very good.

SK77 says, “Thank you for the clarity.”  Very welcome, very good.

Louise says, “Anantaji, there seems to be a lot of suffering around…not wanting. Not even sure what it is in specific, but just not wanting feelings or having to do something. It seems foggy about the goal of this belief.”

Not wanting; not wanting feelings or having to do something. It’s a sort of a resistance, isn’t it? But the harder we resist life, the stronger it seems to come at us. And when we say ‘I am completely open; bring it on’ then you will find that you are the untouched one. No matter what the content of the experience is, no matter what the content of thought is, you are completely untouched and unruffled by it. But the minute we start building defences, then we start feeling that we are being attacked. That’s very good.

Ustreamer380 says, “Thank you, Master. Surrender all to you.”  Thank you so much.

Dee says, “Thank you, Master, at your feet. Love you.”  Love you, too. Very good.

Meera says, “Ever grateful to you, Father, at your feet, beloved Master. Love you so much.”  Love you, too, my child. Very good.

Jyoti says, “Thank you very much. So grateful for your love and support.”

Ustreamer891 says, “At your feet. Effortless joy and compassion. Love you.”  Love you, too.

Does this mean that our 1 hour is over? Yes. Very good.

SK77 says, “What does following the heart mean? Stay silent, or follow intuition?”

It’s a very good question. So, initially, what you have to do is just let go of all your thoughts, and let life unfold on its own. Let life unfold on its own. It is going to unfold anyway. Because personal volition, personal choice, personal decision-making were all concepts and ideas in the first place. Then you might find, one day, that there is a deeper qualitative voice that speaks. But when it speaks, it is accompanied by the presence of love, and peace and joy. It is not accompanied by needing something, wanting something, wanting to achieve something. You will sense…, many Beings say that this is the voice of the Heart. But don’t confuse it with the physical heart; otherwise it might seem to be coming from a deeper place. The mind can be a trickster, and try to convince us that this voice…, it can try to play a part; it can try to play the role of the Guru and intuition. And once you’ve stabilized, you’ve completely let go of the thought, you will find that a deeper voice speaks, which has no need. It is accompanied by love, peace and joy. This is not the same voice as the voice of the mind.

Ultimately, of course, it is all the same thing; it is Consciousness itself. But this voice, you can listen to then. In fact, this is the voice that speaks through satsang. It is the same voice which is using this mouth to speak. So, have no expectation about anything that is said, because it can unfold in different ways. Some Beings might hear it as voice, for some it might come as a visual, for some it is just pure silence itself. So, you will know qualitatively. Qualitatively, this voice will have a different sense of Presence about it. That is intuition. But remember that ultimately, to you-as-awareness-itself, it doesn’t matter. Even this, it can be said, does not matter. Once you recognize that ‘I am this pure seeing itself’ then it does not matter whether even this pure voice is guiding this life or not. Because you-as-awareness is completely untouched by the content of this life. This life is nothing but the blink of an eye-lid for you. You are the timeless one. So don’t look for intuition, don’t chase intuition. When you have let go of your personal mind, then intuition will arise on it’s own. So ‘follow the heart’ for now only means let go of your thoughts and let life unfold on it’s own.

Okay, [Namaste], thank you all so very much for joining us for satsang today.  Moojiji ki Jai ! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Sangha: Moojiji ki Jai !  Anantaji ki Jai ! Thank you. Love you.

Q: “How did all of this come about?” [What brought Ananta into giving satsang or having satsang in this way?]

So many versions of this story have happened in the past, let’s see which one comes up today. So, for a long, long time in the life of this person, there seemed to be no belief in the concept of God. And there was this thought which was believed which was that ‘All that don’t have faith in themselves have invented this concept of God, just because they are scared; that they need something to rely on, therefore they have invented this concept of God’. And then some experiences happened where I came across some Being who was able to foretell the future. He was an astrologer; he was very accurate with foretelling the future. And at the same time a lot of suffering was coming up in life.

So with that what happened is I came across this book called ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’. Because life created some openness, so first this book appeared. Sri Sri Paramahansa Yogananda’s book, ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’. And it had some deep impact here. But if I were to look at it now, I am not sure what it was that so deeply affected me then. But in reading ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’ something was there about learning Kriya yoga, and doing some Kriya type practices. He was Sri Sri Paramahansa Yogananda. In Bangalore there is a master called Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, who teaches something called the Sudarshan Kriya. So I found that when I came to know about this, this was in ‘97 or ‘98 most likely; and when I came to know about this Sri Sri / Sri Sri coincidence, and the kriya / kriya similarity, I felt that I must go and try this. So I went to The Art of Living, learned the sudarshan kriya; and all the yogic practises actually helped in some way, because it gave some space here for some contemplation to happen.

But what happened is, (I know we are running out of time so we will have a quick version of this story). So there was a lot of interest in The Art of Living here; and did many, many courses and programs with The Art of Living, with the ultimate goal, which seemed like, to become a teacher with The Art of Living. But life of course had other plans. A lot of suffering arose because of some life events; things happened where a lot of suffering actually arose. And with grace, there was this question which said ‘If you know so much, and you are so good at practices, and you are so spiritually evolved, then how can it be that suffering still continues?’

With grace, there was this question which said ‘If you know so much, and you are so good at practices, and you are so spiritually evolved, then how can it be that suffering still continues?’]

With that question, the entire framework of the spiritual ego just collapsed actually; because I realised that I did not know anything at all. It was all just concepts that I was parrot-ing that were heard from others; I was just a parrot. Just parrot-ing.

And then with Grace, I came across Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi]’s book ‘Be as you Are’. And at a similar time, I am not sure what was the sequence actually, but Nisargadatta’s [book] ‘I am That’. And ‘I am That’ actually had a very, very profound effect. It was a very frustrating experience also initially, because I just could not understand…, many times when he would say ‘The sense I am, be with the I amness’…, all these terms just would not make any sense at all.

Then in looking for a teacher I looked for a student of his, because I knew that Nisargadatta Maharaj had left the body, so I looked for a student of his. And I found Ramesh Balsekar. So for a few years, any time I was in Mumbai, I would visit Ramesh. And Ramesh as you know speaks a lot about non-doership; he used to speak a lot about non-doership.

But something was still not completely clear; and when I was looking for disciples of Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, then I came across these names Papaji, Lakshmana Swami, and there was a desire to meet somebody from that lineage. So when I went to Tiru for the first time, there was a feeling that I would like to meet Lakshmana Swami. By then I had seen all of Mooji’s videos on Youtube, but there was no feeling that this one is going to be my guru. So when I went to Tiru, it was mostly to do a lot of spiritual shopping actually; to meet all the Masters over there in Tiru. And as Grace would have it, I saw Mooji first.

It is a long story, I was late for satsang, I was waiting downstairs; and then I saw him come down the stairs. And as he was coming down the stairs, this strong feeling came over me that ‘I have come home’. That my life is his problem now, and everything will be taken care of. This strong feeling came, and I gave him a hug, and it was a short meeting.

And then I always believed that the next day I went to him on the hot seat actually; but if you look at the dates now that one day went in the middle, and I have no recollection what happened on that day. There is no recollection of that day, of what happened in satsang, or any of that. I just remember that when I landed up on the hot seat, in looking at his eyes, all that was spoken and was just an intellectual understanding earlier was seen to be completely true. The person had completely dissolved, and all there was was oneness, and pure love that was being transmitted from his eyes. And all sense of separation vanished.

This is what was happening internally when you see me doing all the crying and laughter, all happening at the same time in the video [Youtube video of Ananta’s sitting the first time with Mooji @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIgAWk85tgo ]. So that is what happened.

And then after that, Mooji just adopted me. Mooji just adopted me, and it has just gone on like this very naturally in it’s own flow. And there was no feeling here, very strong feeling that I must do satsang, or this should happen. In fact we wanted to do video satsangs with Mooji. In fact, that’s how it started in Bangalore. We started doing fort-nightly dvd satsangs here. We started doing fortnightly dvd satsangs, and it just happened that his presence was so strongly felt during those satsangs. And then these beautiful beings started coming, no? Ram and Jyotika and Amrita, and Om would log in online. So these beautiful Beings started coming, and for some reason they started asking me questions. And usually I was not very open for answering, but for them just these answers also seemed to flow.

So when these answers used to flow, and I could also feel the Master’s presence so strongly here, then I wrote to Mooji and said that this is what seems to be happening. So he said that I must share, grace is using this body / mind very well now, and the sharing must continue like this. And he said one phrase in the mail where he said that ‘We must bring more Beings into this sangha of Being’. And I felt that that is a very beautiful name for this sangha. So this name ‘Sangha of Being’ comes from there. Because there was not this strong motivation to call it Ananta Sangha, you know, there was no feeling to name it like that. It was just seeming like Mooji’s prasad in some way; and that’s how this whole thing happened this way.

Thank you so much, thank you.

[With grace, there was this question which said ‘If you know so much, and you are so good at practices, and you are so spiritually evolved, then how can it be that suffering still continues?’]

With that question, the entire framework of the spiritual ego just collapsed actually; because I realized that I did not know anything at all. It was all just concepts that I was parrot-ing that were heard from others; I was just a parrot. Just parrot-ing.

And then with Grace, I came across Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi]’s book ‘Be as you Are’. And at a similar time, I am not sure what was the sequence actually, but Nisargadatta’s [book] ‘I am That’. And ‘I am That’ actually had a very, very profound effect. It was a very frustrating experience also initially, because I just could not understand…, many times when he would say ‘The sense I Am, be with the I Am-ness’…, all these terms just would not make any sense at all.

Then in looking for a teacher I looked for a student of his, because I knew that Nisargadatta Maharaj had left the body, so I looked for a student of his. And I found Ramesh Balsekar. So for a few years, any time I was in Mumbai, I would visit Ramesh. And Ramesh as you know speaks a lot about non-doership; he used to speak a lot about non-doership.

But something was still not completely clear; and when I was looking for disciples of Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, then I came across these names Papaji, Lakshmana Swami, and there was a desire to meet somebody from that lineage. So when I went to Tiru for the first time, there was a feeling that I would like to meet Lakshmana Swami. By then I had seen all of Mooji’s videos on Youtube, but there was no feeling that this one is going to be my guru. So when I went to Tiru, it was mostly to do a lot of spiritual shopping actually; to meet all the Masters over there in Tiru. And as Grace would have it, I saw Mooji first.

It is a long story, I was late for satsang, I was waiting downstairs; and then I saw him come down the stairs. And as he was coming down the stairs, this strong feeling came over me that ‘I have come home’. That my life is his problem now, and everything will be taken care of. This strong feeling came, and I gave him a hug, and it was a short meeting.

And then I always believed that the next day I went to him on the hot seat actually; but if you look at the dates now that one day went in the middle, and I have no recollection what happened on that day. There is no recollection of that day, of what happened in satsang, or any of that. I just remember that when I landed up on the hot seat, in looking at his eyes, all that was spoken and was just an intellectual understanding earlier was seen to be completely true. The person had completely dissolved, and all there was oneness, and pure love that was being transmitted from his eyes. And all sense of separation vanished.

This is what was happening internally when you see me doing all the crying and laughter, all happening at the same time in the video [Youtube video of Ananta’s sitting the first time with Mooji @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIgAWk85tgo ]. So that is what happened.

And then after that, Mooji just adopted me. Mooji just adopted me, and it has just gone on like this very naturally in its own flow. And there was no feeling here, very strong feeling that I must do satsang, or this should happen. In fact we wanted to do video satsangs with Mooji. In fact, that’s how it started in Bangalore. We started doing fort-nightly dvd satsangs here. We started doing fortnightly dvd satsangs, and it just happened that his presence was so strongly felt during those satsangs. And then these beautiful beings started coming, no? Ram and Jyotika and Amrita, and Om would log in online. So these beautiful beings started coming, and for some reason they started asking me questions. And usually I was not very open for answering, but for them just these answers also seemed to flow.

So when these answers used to flow, and I could also feel the Master’s presence so strongly here, then I wrote to Mooji and said that this is what seems to be happening. So he said that I must share, grace is using this body / mind very well now, and the sharing must continue like this. And he said one phrase in the mail where he said that ‘We must bring more Beings into this sangha of Being’. And I felt that that is a very beautiful name for this sangha. So this name ‘Sangha of Being’ comes from there. Because there was not this strong motivation to call it Ananta Sangha, you know, there was no feeling to name it like that. It was just seeming like Mooji’s prasad in some way; and that’s how this whole thing happened this way.

Thank you so much, thank you.

Namaste everyone, a very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai.

If it’s your first time here you can ask your questions in the chat window. Namaste, namaste. Very good. Welcome, welcome once again.

Today we can look at whose life are we so concerned about. Whose life and whose state are we so concerned about? Have we become so used to worrying about this person, that even after the realisation is here that it does not exist, we still want that person to be in some state? Or we start worrying if some states appear which seem uncomfortable for this person? Who is experiencing anything at all? Are we willing to look at this question? Is the one who is experiencing, is that an individual entity? And if we are so clear that it cannot be an individual entity that is experiencing anything, then why are we concerned with the content of the experience?

Very good let’s read a little.

Shanti says, “So appropriate today. I have been giving myself a hard time, but seeing that I have been focusing on the person who has it or not.”

Rashmi says, “Same here, Shanti.”

Atma says, “Very good question Father, who is experiencing all this?”

We must look at this, otherwise we are only using spiritual understanding as a band aid; we are only using spiritual concepts as candy; we are only using these concepts as vitamins; that when we feel upset or we feel bad about something, then we just pop in a spiritual concept. That’s not what this is. There is a stage where this happens, where we use spiritual concepts to feel better, and that is absolutely fine. But if it is only restricted to that, then you are again falling into the trap of the mind which says you must now use spirituality to make the state of the person better.

Okay. so Clare says, “I am seeing that I still believe in people and me as a person.”   Yes.

All our concepts will now come out of the woodwork, and they will be clear for us. This is the way grace functions. So even if it seems like ‘I don’t want to confront some of these things now’, but they have been given a home through our belief, they will start now coming up; and in this way they can now be released. Some of it I am exposing in satsang, and the rest of it definitely life is exposing for you on its own. Therefore those that run from satsang, it must be because there is some fear of what will ultimately get exposed. Under the garb of boredom or disagreement or doubt there is usually some fear about what is going to get exposed next. And when we are in a fearful state, we are very quick to pick up a thought which will get us out of these situations. But grace does not function like that. You cannot escape life in this way. Life will always point you towards your own reality.

Shanti says, “The person’s own struggle is not the point. I see this, it is almost funny.”  Yes.

Because we have been so used to storification, that the understanding or the awakening or enlightenment or freedom, the mind tries to make that part of the story as well. When looked at clearly it will seem very funny actually, yes it’s true.

Clare says, “A pull of some sort or a habit.”   Yes.

Atma says, “There is nobody here, just thoughts, thoughts and emotions and memory and images.”

Yes. And the awareness in whose presence all of this is appearing is untouched by this content. This is the point which we make so often, that what you are is untouched by any of this content.

Jyoti says, “It seems like there is something that cares a little, but if and when I check there is no individual.”   Exactly.   “In these times I just continue to not identify with anything.”

That is why the inquiry is so beautiful that instantly in the looking it is seen that there is no person here at all. There only seems to be this pure seeing, and within that, this pure being. Instantly we see this. This does not take time at all. And it is good to keep checking once in a while.

Clare says, “I get attached to certain people, like a sort of commitment to uphold to them, or to support them.”

All the roles can happen, but it can happen without this needy sense of attachment. No attachment to something which is not eternal, or rather all attachments to that which is not eternal, will eventually lead to suffering. There is a big difference between love and need. In fact when there is love there can not be need, but so often we confuse this. In fact the mind’s version of love is need.

Atma says, “If I start to believe in it, only then trouble begins, otherwise there is only peace here.”  It’s very true.

Ajnani says, “I don’t want these concepts. All of them to the satsang fire.”  Very good. “In daily life if some come, I say ‘one two three drop, and dropped’ and then three deep breaths.”  Very good.

In whatever way we can drop, it’s good to drop. No concepts are required. Concepts are only required once some other concepts have been believed. If no concepts have been believed, then no words need to be spoken in satsang also.

Clare says, “You have really helped me to see my true position, especially with arising energy.”

These energies were so easily identified with in the past. Now it is getting easier to stay as our true position, not delude ourselves with any energy.

Namaste, Louise. Namaste, Lizelle.

Clare says, “There is a subtle identity that feels bad for not upholding other people.”

Don’t get into the trap of any identity. All will play out from your state of neutrality. Don’t try to uphold or not uphold, because in trying to uphold or not uphold you invent the upholder. All can happen without this imagination.

Namaste, Jayani.

Rashmi says, “When doubts and confusion arise, all I know is I am, that is all I know. The presence is all that feels true. No other belief gives me comfort in moments of doubt.”

And this can be true at one level on the path. When so much mind activation can happen in resistance to the truth, then the sense ‘I am’ seems like an oasis or a sanctuary, where we can rest peacefully without any concern; because it is the one constant in the waking state.

But for you I can say that you must go beyond this also. Because if you are using this even as a crutch then you are believing yourself to be something that you are now. You say ‘When doubts and confusion arise the only thing I know…’ This ‘I’ is who? Are we picking up the person again? Saying that ‘The only thing the person can rely on is the sense I am’. Do you rely on the ‘I am’ or does the ‘I am-ness’ itself rely on you? And all it needs is a simple looking. If we give it to the mind, it will get confused. Do you rely on the ‘I am’ or does the ‘I am’ rely on you?

Clare says, “All these attachments and beliefs into the fire.”   Very good.

Louise says, “Anantaji, something occurred to me today. Grace came and I noticed in this silent space, the mind was still thinking about how to get it,”  Yes. “enlightenment/space/freedom, when it was here already. Was ironic.”

Our thoughts will always say that we still need to get something. So in any state our thoughts will always say ‘You are almost there’ or ‘You are very far from the truth’. It will never say that truth is already here. If truth is true, then it must already be here. But a thought can not say this. So thinking will always be like this. I am not surprised at all; thinking is always like this. But yes, it does happen sometimes where attention goes strongly to these kinds of thoughts, and that is also okay as long as you are not indulging them with your belief.

Clare says, “Thank you.”   Thank you.

Louise says, “I am seen.”

Rashmi says, “How to get ads out of the way?”

Yes, so we have said this before that we need to install Adblocker, and someone in the sangha can send it to you, you can install the Adblocker so it doesn’t bother you. But we often find that when someone has a really burning question, that’s when the ads start coming up. So you let me know if you didn’t hear the answer and we can look at the question again.

Ajnani says, “Yesterday a man was talking about some spiritual concepts. I stayed in silence. He talked about lessons and needing more lifetimes. I stayed in silence, no need to defend anything.”

It is very good, it is very good. No need to argue, no need to convey our understanding to someone unless you sense that there is a sense of openness there. And also no need to judge anyone else, because in the past we ourselves have believed so many concepts. Therefore they are making the same mistake, if at all it can be called a mistake, then they are making the same mistakes that we have made in the past. Therefore no judgement to even those who are believing some other concepts.

Amaya says, “Namaste. Watching body symptoms, almost panic attack due to inflammation, fear of doctors/drugs. Surrendering this. Aware am not this, even while feeling it all; even fear of dying, into the satsang fire.”

It is very good, I am holding your hand through all of this. Let life take us where it wants to take us; let life show us everything it has to show us. We will walk together with no fear of any of this. Let all that has to come, come. It cannot touch your reality, it cannot touch the truth.

Aradhana says, “Rashmi, please download Adblock.”

Rashmi says, “Thanks Aradhana. The ads always come when my question is being answered.”

Yes, we have seen that.

Amaya, ‘Thank you’.  Very good.

Rashmi says, “So, so true.”  So did you hear the answer which was for you then, or do you want a recap?

Ajnani says, “Yes, I noticed that he was my old aspect. And no judgement.”   Yes, very good, excellent.

Rashmi says, “I have felt the panic attack, too, and just don’t listen to the mind. The feelings come and go.”

So when you say ‘I have felt’…, are you just saying it conversationally, or you really believe you have felt it? And if you have felt it, then you as what? So you say ‘No’. So let’s look at the question again. You said that ‘The sense of ‘I am’ seems to be the only thing that I can rely on when there is to be too much doubt and confusion’. And I said that that is completely understandable at some stage of the understanding, but where we have walked now, we have seen that even the sense of ‘I am’ relies on you. You do not rely on the sense of ‘I am’. Only a phenomenal or a personal idea can rely on the sense of ‘I am-ness’ also. But now you will quickly see that the sense of ‘I am’ and beingness arises for you. It cannot exist without you, but you can exist without it.

Yes, it is our constant companion in the waking state. It can be said that the sense ‘I am’ is the only true friend we have in the waking state; but it will be seen that even the being arises from the seeing itself; but the seeing does not arise from Being. You say ‘Conversationally’. Okay, that’s good. So if you are saying it conversationally, then it is fine; then you will say that the arising of all these energies was seen and they were allowed to come and go, but the instant you say that ‘I as a person’ was experiencing this, that is when you start smelling a rat.

We are not to be concerned with any state which is appearing. We are beyond all these states. These states appear for us, we are not in service to them. Even the beautiful states of love, peace and joy, we are not to chase them. They, in fact, chase you all the time. If you just stay still and refuse to chase anything at all, you will find an abundance of love, an abundance of peace and joy. So much love here, so much peace and joy. Just the idea of having to chase it, it will sound funny to you, it will sound like a joke.

Rashmi says, “Sometimes it’s just beautiful how the feelings arise and go. <censored> like something beautiful.”

So don’t let any state convince you that you are a person again. A great state or a horrible state, both can convince you of your individuality. You just be the witness of all of these.

Jyoti says, “Can we ignore absolutely everything? I just want to confirm this with you again.”  Yes.

All thoughts, whatever their nature might be, can be completely ignored. And all actions are happening on their own anyway. So when we are speaking of ignoring, we are only speaking of our thoughts and other energy patterns which appear ‘internally’. We are not the thinker of thoughts or the doer of actions. Let God take care of everything, he can do it very well.

Shanti says, “One thing I see is that I am judging that I should always be grateful. When there is selfishness and wanting more, there is peace, grace, etc., there is discouragement and the belief that I have been deluded.”  Yes.

The old trickster, the old trickery about doubt, confusion; all of this will come. And we can see it come, but don’t say that ‘I am doubting’ and don’t say that ‘I am fearing’. All of this is just appearing and will disappear. There is no need for you to get attached to it. It is like a subway station, a train will come; it is your choice whether you jump in or not. You can just stand by, look at the rush, and the train will go. But if you keep jumping on to every train, then you will be quite tired very fast; and eventually you have not gone anywhere. You can stay as you are and not jump onto trains; or you can jump onto every train, get tired and come back to where you were. Because the truth is always here only. Not ‘here’ as in this satsang or listening to me, here as in this very moment, this very now. Very good.

Shanti says, “I am exposing now, not believing.”  Very good, “Thank you, no power is given to these things.”   Very good.

Yes. Webeke, (and I’m sorry if I’m not pronouncing your name properly), but Webeke says, “Can we ignore any emotions too?”

Ignoring does not mean resisting. First we must clarify this. Because when we say ‘ignore’ then some get the impression that this means to block or to resist. Ignoring does not mean to resist; in fact it means to be completely open. Be completely open, don’t resist anything at all, just let it come and let it go. Don’t have to engage with any of this. And don’t have to force something to go away also. It will go on it’s own.

So you do not have to play the toll keeper keeping toll of everything that is passing. We leave the road open, and all will just come and go. But if you start giving your belief and your personal identification to all that is coming…, so if anger is coming and you say ‘I am angry now’ or guilt is coming and you say ‘I am guilty now’ then it is giving yourself attributes which are just not possible; because this is all imagined. We imagine the person who is angry or guilty. So, better to say ‘Who is angry? Who is guilty? Can you find this one?’ Before we pick up any attribute, can we find to who it is that we are giving these attributes?

Louise says, “Anantaji, the thought keeps coming up, and I wonder if it is just an egoic thought. It says, ‘Here and now, am I aware?’ Throughout the day it comes, with no intention to keep remembering to say it.”

I feel it is very auspicious. I feel it’s very auspicious, in fact it sounds like a deeper intuitive voice than a thought. A thought typically means something which is attached to a need. It wants something, it’s grasping for something. This one seems like something which is more keeping you centered and bringing you home in some sense. So it seems very auspicious for now. But you keep checking with me once in a while, and if I sense that something is becoming obsessive about it, then we can expose that. But for now it seems very good.

Yes, you say “It seems to bring the attention out of the mind,”  Yes. “out of being a seeker and noticing I am here now.”    Yes, it’s very beautiful. Very good.

Louise says, “I am aware now.”   Yes, very good.

Ajnani says, “Ananta I see you as an innocent child, but too wise for a child, and a very perfect adult friend,”  Yes. “not like a Father.”  Yes. “I don’t know why, I only wanted to expose.”  Yes.

You can relate to me in any way that you like. In fact I have never forced anyone or told anyone that you should call me Father, or even Anantaji. I am fine with just Ananta, perfectly fine. But if it comes naturally for you, then I want to be completely open to that expression as well. It is a term of endearment which I accept whole-heartedly; but I don’t expect it to be something which everybody has to conform to. It’s not a rule or anything. So just Ananta, just friend, is absolutely fine.

Jyoti says, “It can be difficult to tell the difference sometimes between what is a thought or not, as often what seems to be thoughts are actually pointing to the Truth.”

Yes, but ultimately all of these thoughts will be let go of, and then no pointing at all is required. It is only that if you feel like you have walked a particular distance, you will feel like you need to come back home. Once we have not picked up a thought at all, then we have not even in imagination walked any distance. Therefore no bridge to come back home is required, because we are already home. Yes, but there can be some intuitive feelings which bring us out of our delusion if we have been imagining too much of person-hood; there can be an inner guidance which can come, which is the same guidance which is there in satsang, which can point us back home as you say.

Then Jyoti says, “But really it makes no difference, thought or pointing; they come and go in the same way.”   Yes, very good.

Zurin says, “Sometimes I believe that I am becoming a person. Fear comes and I believe I have to do something to get out of that ‘person’ state.”

Yes, there are times where we seem to be right in the middle of some strong beliefs which we seem to have picked up. Whether actual feeling of doing something is the actual feeling of dropping actually, all that is required to be done is that we have picked up this heavy load of the person, and in that instant itself it can be dropped. And this dropping can seem like a doing initially; and if it does seem like effort initially that is absolutely fine. But you will see later that it was actually the dropping of effort, not actual effort. It will only seem like some effort initially which is absolutely fine by me. Very good.

Clare says, “I would like to expose a voice/identity/thought thing that is like the core of the idea of ‘I’ and it’s like a malicious snake attacking with venom and I can see that it is not who I am.”

You will see that this energetic pattern is very malicious, is very sneaky, knows how to push all our buttons; but in satsang now it is losing all it’s power. So what we joke about sometimes in satsang, we say that what started out as a huge wrestler who had the ability to throw you around then becomes less and less powerful, until ultimately it reaches the point of just being a pesky insect which is buzzing around your ear. Only that much power it will have; even that much might not last. Because in this fire of satsang this power is being dissolved.

[Clare] “…and what is says isn’t true.”   Yes.

Ustreamer545 says, “Happy afternoon. Will it make sense if we relate everything in terms of energy, subtlest which is vibration and frequency; and how we understand, feel the energy more and more around us?” This is Murthy.

Murthy is asking ‘Happy afternoon. Will it make sense if we relate everything in terms of energy, vibration and frequency, and  how do we understand and feel the energy more and more around us?’ It is useful; and if the metaphor appeals to you, please go ahead and use it, but it can also be very confusing to some. Like in my case also, it was a little confusing initially when Mooji would speak about energies, he would speak about attraction to energy and how energy forms are felt; it would seem a little bit confusing. But then as more and more clarity came it became clearer and clearer that this energetic way of looking at it is a nice metaphor to explain a lot of the flow that happens here. So if it appeals to you, definitely, definitely.

Jayani says, “Such confirmation that ‘Nothing is happening, I don’t exist’ occurred here during Sunday satsang with Mooji. It has been such a storm of fear and intense anger. This is all seen, and even the attempt of trying to get out of this storm is not taken seriously. Yet on some level there is a feeling that maybe something has not been seen, and that a stabilizing is not happening after so…”

After so?  Maybe long or something. Let’s see what Jayani is saying. She is saying ‘Such confirmation that ‘nothing is happening, I don’t exist’ occurred here during Sunday satsang with Mooji’.

When we say ‘I don’t exist’ we are saying ‘I don’t exist as a separate individual’. That what we have imagined ourselves to be just is not real. But there is a sense of a pure witnessing, a pure awareness, a pure seeing which is present here, which has no separation from me. It has no distance from me. It has always been what I must be. Therefore it is okay to say that ‘I don’t exist phenomenally’. So ‘I don’t exist phenomenally’ but what you are is the Supreme itself, within which the whole Universe is taking birth. And just in your own simple noticing that you are aware now, you are coming to terms with your own reality.

Then you say ‘It has been such a storm of intense fear and anger. This is all seen; and even the attempt of trying to get rid of the storm is not taken seriously’.  Yes, very good.  ‘Yet on some level, there is a feeling that maybe something has not been seen; and that a stabilizing is not happening after so many years’. I see.

You are completely stable. Only the ideas we have about ourselves are unstable. So what needs to be dropped is only the idea of instability. Because in any moment, if I were to ask you ‘Are you aware now?’ your answer would always, always be the same. You are only that. That is always here. So drop the idea even of instability. And drop the idea that some states should come and some should not come.

Kiran says, “Ananta, you missed a few of the previous comments before 545.”

Oh, did I? Okay. Ah, I missed quite a few. Okay, so let’s look at it now.

Okay, Zurin says, “Sometimes I believe…” This one we took.

Shanti says, “Here is something funny to look at. Something has been obsessing about missing the chance to find the Truth. This creates so much expectation and tension. I am giving this to you.”

This tricky one, you know the tricks like ‘Almost there, just something left, just something a little bit. This one, it is very good that you are handing over. It’s very good.

Zurin says, “Now thanks to your grace, it is becoming more and more clear that all this is something I am perceiving, and don’t have to do anything about it.”

Yes. You are the perceiving itself. There is not something called ‘the perceiving’ that you own. There is no perceiver entity even. There is only this pure awareness.

Yes, if I miss anything that any of you have said, please feel free to just copy and paste it again so that I can look at it. I am not cutting anything out or censoring anything. Everything I feel to read. And some things could get missed, so feel free to just paste it again. Don’t feel that I have seen it and I don’t want to read it out loud. There is nothing like that.

Jayani says, “Yes, thank you. Tears and laughter. Oh God, thank you for your repeated pointing.”

Yes. Somebody asked me today ‘Is there a particular satsang you would like me to hear?’ And I said, no, it’s all the same. It’s always the same pointing actually. Just different ways to express it. Different concepts have been believed, so sometimes different ways to remove those concepts are expressed; but ultimately we are saying the same thing over and over again.

Shanti says, “It’s okay. I know you receive it on another level. I give you a lot to burn through the week, and it is done.”   Very good.

This is actually a communion with the Satguru in your own heart. This body, mouth, words are just the instruments which are enabling a communion between you and your own reality. It is actually a monologue.

Amrit Gaurav says, “Thank you so much, Anantaji, for your daily satsang.”   Very good. We look forward to having you in Bangalore soon. It will be very good to see you again. Good.

Jyoti says, “Yes, sometimes people ask me what satsang is all about and I say ‘Yes, there’s only one thing to say, that we are awareness’.”

At least you are able to say this. When they ask me, I am completely at a loss for words. Sometimes I feel that if I were to say something like ‘You are awareness’ then there will be a complete misunderstanding about what is being said.

Louise says, “I so wish, Anantaji, the whole world was like this. Would love to walk out of my door every day and share in this beauty we share here with everyone.”

So even to look at it completely practically, I would say that so many beings are now so easily understanding what is true. So those times might not be far where it becomes just common knowledge. What seems to be such sacred and rare knowledge today might become common knowledge for the next few generations. That is a nice prayer to have. But you were talking about aliens the other day, so I wonder whether aliens also have these misconceptions about person-hood or not. [Laughs].

Aradhana says, “So grateful for your beautiful presence, Ananta.”    Thank you, my dear.

Aunty says, “Such a miracle.”

Ana says, “Thank you, I love you all.”  Is it time to go already? Yes, almost. Okay.

Clare says, “I expose all subtle, snidey, judgemental thoughts and the confusion that they belong to me.”   Very good.

This is very good. All of you are so amazing. You are able to expose these things, to snap out of the denial of the ego and to come to a place of courage and strength where you are able to expose so openly is very beautiful for me. Very good.

And you say, “…and the guilt that arose from the confusion.”   Yes.

Atma says, “No. No time to go.”   Okay. [Laughs].

Jyoti says, “I don’t know if anyone could understand that we are awareness, but I feel that everyone could accept that we are Being.”   Yes, that seems easier to grasp for the mind, yes.

Ustreamer38 says, “Love you so much Father. Jyotika.”   Love you, too, my dear. Very good.

Jyoti had this question on chat yesterday. I don’t know if this question is still valid for you. If it is then we can spend a few minutes on it.

Shanti says, “Love you Father, Satguru, Master, enlightened one, my heart.”  So beautiful, thank you. “Love you all so, so much.”   Love you, too, so much, so much, so much. Very good.

Amaya says, “So grateful for your pointings. As there is no foothold at all to believe person, seems something really rises up strong to test or refute this awareness. Calmer now in body.”   Very good.

Ajnani says, “Thank you, love you.”   Very good.

Louise says, “Seems to be the deepest drive in this, to see love pouring out of everyone.”

Yes. It is very beautiful to see oneness, even in the outside world. That’s why I once, almost very embarrassingly, exposed that any flash-mob [group-surprise song and/or dance events, posted on Youtube] actually ends up bringing tears to my eyes; and for many years I couldn’t figure out why. It must be because it seems to be much sense of oneness in that isn’t it. Okay, just between all of us, yeah?

Okay, so Jyoti says ‘Yes’. So, Jyoti’s question was “How did all of this come about?” in the sense of what brought this being into giving satsang or having satsang in this way?

So many versions of this story have happened in the past, let’s see which one comes up today. So, for a long, long time in the life of this person, there seemed to be no belief in the concept of God. And there was this thought which was believed which was that ‘All that don’t have faith in themselves have invented this concept of God, just because they are scared; that they need something to rely on, therefore they have invented this concept of God’. And then some experiences happened where I came across some Being who was able to foretell the future. He was an astrologer; he was very accurate with foretelling the future. And at the same time a lot of suffering was coming up in life.

So with that what happened is I came across this book called ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’. Because life created some openness, so first this book appeared. Sri Sri Paramahansa Yogananda’s book, ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’. And it had some deep impact here. But if I were to look at it now, I am not sure what it was that so deeply affected me then. But in reading ‘Autobiography of a Yogi’ something was there about learning Kriya yoga, and doing some Kriya type practices. He was Sri Sri Paramahansa Yogananda. In Bangalore there is a master called Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, who teaches something called the Sudarshan Kriya. So I found that when I came to know about this, this was in ‘97 or ‘98 most likely; and when I came to know about this Sri Sri / Sri Sri coincidence, and the kriya / kriya similarity, I felt that I must go and try this. So I went to The Art of Living, learned the sudarshan kriya; and all the yogic practises actually helped in some way, because it gave some space here for some contemplation to happen.

But what happened is, (I know we are running out of time so we will have a quick version of this story). So there was a lot of interest in The Art of Living here; and did many, many courses and programs with The Art of Living, with the ultimate goal, which seemed like, to become a teacher with The Art of Living. But life of course had other plans. A lot of suffering arose because of some life events; things happened where a lot of suffering actually arose. And with grace, there was this question which said ‘If you know so much, and you are so good at practices, and you are so spiritually evolved, then how can it be that suffering still continues?’ And with that question, the entire framework of the spiritual ego just collapsed actually; because I realised that I did not know anything at all. It was all just concepts that I was parrot-ing that were heard from others; I was just a parrot. Just parrot-ing.

And then with Grace, I came across Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi]’s book ‘Be as you Are’. And at a similar time, I am not sure what was the sequence actually, but Nisargadatta’s [book] ‘I am That’. And ‘I am That’ actually had a very, very profound effect. It was a very frustrating experience also initially, because I just could not understand…, many times when he would say ‘The sense I am, be with the I amness’…, all these terms just would not make any sense at all.

Then in looking for a teacher I looked for a student of his, because I knew that Nisargadatta Maharaj had left the body, so I looked for a student of his. And I found Ramesh Balsekar. So for a few years, any time I was in Mumbai, I would visit Ramesh. And Ramesh as you know speaks a lot about non-doership; he used to speak a lot about non-doership.

But something was still not completely clear; and when I was looking for disciples of Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi, then I came across these names Papaji, Lakshmana Swami, and there was a desire to meet somebody from that lineage. So when I went to Tiru for the first time, there was a feeling that I would like to meet Lakshmana Swami. By then I had seen all of Mooji’s videos on Youtube, but there was no feeling that this one is going to be my guru. So when I went to Tiru, it was mostly to do a lot of spiritual shopping actually; to meet all the Masters over there in Tiru. And as Grace would have it, I saw Mooji first.

It is a long story, I was late for satsang, I was waiting downstairs; and then I saw him come down the stairs. And as he was coming down the stairs, this strong feeling came over me that ‘I have come home’. That my life is his problem now, and everything will be taken care of. This strong feeling came, and I gave him a hug, and it was a short meeting.

And then I always believed that the next day I went to him on the hot seat actually; but if you look at the dates now that one day went in the middle, and I have no recollection what happened on that day. There is no recollection of that day, of what happened in satsang, or any of that. I just remember that when I landed up on the hot seat, in looking at his eyes, all that was spoken and was just an intellectual understanding earlier was seen to be completely true. The person had completely dissolved, and all there was was oneness, and pure love that was being transmitted from his eyes. And all sense of separation vanished.

This is what was happening internally when you see me doing all the crying and laughter, all happening at the same time in the video [Youtube video of Ananta’s sitting the first time with Mooji]. So that is what happened.

And then after that, Mooji just adopted me. Mooji just adopted me, and it has just gone on like this very naturally in it’s own flow. And there was no feeling here, very strong feeling that I must do satsang, or this should happen. In fact we wanted to do video satsangs with Mooji. In fact, that’s how it started in Bangalore. We started doing fort-nightly dvd satsangs here. We started doing fortnightly dvd satsangs, and it just happened that his presence was so strongly felt during those satsangs. And then these beautiful beings started coming, no? Ram and Jyotika and Amrita, and Om would log in online. So these beautiful beings started coming, and for some reason they started asking me questions. And usually I was not very open for answering, but for them just these answers also seemed to flow.

So when these answers used to flow, and I could also feel the Master’s presence so strongly here, then I wrote to Mooji and said that this is what seems to be happening. So he said that I must share, grace is using this body / mind very well now, and the sharing must continue like this. And he said one phrase in the mail where he said that ‘We must bring more Beings into this sangha of Being’. And I felt that that is a very beautiful name for this sangha. So this name ‘Sangha of Being’ comes from there. Because there was not this strong motivation to call it Ananta Sangha, you know, there was no feeling to name it like that. It was just seeming like Mooji’s prasad in some way; and that’s how this whole thing happened this way.

Yes, thank you. Thank you so much, thank you.

Thank you all so much for joining in satsang today.

Moojiji ki Jai !  So much Love to all of you.

Sangha:  Moojiji ki Jai !  Anantaji ki Jai !  Thank you. Love you.

Q: “What does following the heart mean? Stay silent, or follow intuition?”

It’s a very good question. So, initially, what you have to do is just let go of all your thoughts, and let life unfold on its own. Let life unfold on its own. It is going to unfold anyway. Because personal volition, personal choice, personal decision-making were all concepts and ideas in the first place. Then you might find, one day, that there is a deeper qualitative voice that speaks. But when it speaks, it is accompanied by the presence of love, and peace and joy. It is not accompanied by needing something, wanting something, wanting to achieve something.

You will sense…, many Beings say that this is the voice of the Heart. But don’t confuse it with the physical heart; otherwise it might seem to be coming from a deeper place. The mind can be a trickster, and try to convince us that this voice…, it can try to play a part; it can try to play the role of the Guru and intuition. And once you’ve stabilized, you’ve completely let go of the thought, you will find that a deeper voice speaks, which has no need. It is accompanied by love, peace and joy. This is not the same voice as the voice of the mind.

Ultimately, of course, it is all the same thing; it is Consciousness itself. But this voice, you can listen to then. In fact, this is the voice that speaks through satsang. It is the same voice which is using this mouth to speak. So, have no expectation about anything that is said, because it can unfold in different ways. Some Beings might hear it as voice, for some it might come as a visual, for some it is just pure silence itself. So, you will know qualitatively. Qualitatively, this voice will have a different sense of Presence about it. That is intuition.

But remember that ultimately, to You-as-Awareness-Itself, it doesn’t matter. Even this, it can be said, does not matter. Once you recognize that ‘I am this pure seeing itself’ then it does not matter whether even this pure voice is guiding this life or not. Because you-as-awareness is completely untouched by the content of this life. This life is nothing but the blink of an eye-lid for you. You are the timeless one.

So don’t look for intuition, don’t chase intuition. When you have let go of your personal mind, then intuition will arise on it’s own. So ‘follow the heart’ for now only means let go of your thoughts and let life unfold on it’s own.

Namaste everyone. A very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai!

If you’re joining in for the first time, the way to ask questions is through the chat window. Welcome, welcome. Good morning. Very good. So I presume the video and audio are fine, unless somebody points it out.

Is there something still that convinces you that you must be a person? Is there anything that still convinces you that you must be a separate entity?

And what are the things that can be confused to point to the existence of this false entity? So let’s look at some of the excuses that you might use to believe in your separation.

You might say, “I still get angry. So therefore I must be a separate individual.”

You might say, “I did something, or did not do something. Therefore I must be a separate individual.”

You might say, “My life is not going according to the plan, that’s why I’m still a separate individual.”

You might say “Ease is not always here; hence I must be a separate individual.”

What is it that convinces you of your separateness?

Atma says, “Yes, sometimes, still feel worried about the future.”  Okay.

And Rashmi says, “Yes, I was just so frustrated and reacted with anger.”

Amaya says, “Namaste.”

And Clare says, “In relationship, I often log back into identity.”

Cornelia says, “Yes.”

And Rashmi says, “Who reacts?”

So all of these are concepts or excuses to fall back into the idea of separation. Just remember that although you might still believe the idea of separation, your belief, although is very powerful, is not strong enough to make it real. It is only strong enough to make it seem real. So the separation never can really happen, even if you believe all the concepts that are floating around in your head. Because it never can be that, when you are asked to look for this separate entity, that it is found. Then it is seen that all has been always only a play of consciousness itself. When the Beingness is here, then all the drama can go on. But the one who interprets this drama, and says that ‘This is your story’…, that voice must not be trusted now.

Just one second. [Speaks to Amrinder offline]. Amrinder is also with us today. And if he has any questions, he can also ask.

So Amaya says, “Words. Like just heard myself say ‘I am doing my best’. Then see it.”

Because it cannot be that, in the belief of your concepts, that you really give rise to a separation. Just like in believing that my hand is separate from me. I cannot make it a reality, just by the belief of it.

Atma says, “Yes, true, this separate entity, when looked for, it is not found.”

So the mind is always attempting to communicate, as if it is speaking with this separate entity. It is never addressing you-as-Awareness. It is always addressing you as a person itself. Even in the last satsang, we said this that the mind is never saying ‘Hey, Awareness, can you do this?’ It is always addressing you as a person. And that is why this voice which addresses us as the false entity must never be trusted. So one way is to look at it and chop it off at the root itself. All it is doing is addressing the person, which I can never seem to find anyway; therefore I will ignore this voice into oblivion. Or the second is to look at the content of what it is saying and then say ‘Hey, this still keeps me trapped. These concepts still keep me trapped’. And you will find that none of those are actually true.

Atma says, “Just thoughts in which I sometimes still believe. Yes, I see it.”

Very good. So some of you have already identified some of the concepts, and we can look at them very quickly. So Clare had said that ‘It is in a relationship, when I get into a relationship situation, then I feel that I’ve jumped back into the person again’. And this is very common actually in our special relationships, which seems to be a fertile ground for egoistic belief. So if you can see that even in the relationship, if we have fired the interpreter and if we are letting everything unfold on its own, then you will see that you will not be able to hold on to any resentment, or expectation, or dependency, or need. So momentarily things might be communicated; it will not leave any residue behind. So there are only 3 – 4 things, and we’ve looked at these concepts before, isn’t it? So relationships happen to be one of the powerful concepts which tries to pull us back into this false identity. Then there is also the money or the work / business, whatever label we want to give it. First is relationships, second is business / work / money.

I read something very beautiful actually yesterday. It said that we mistake money for wealth. We believe that money is wealth. But wealth is much more, a much broader concept. Wealth is a much broader concept than money. For me, if I am at the feet of my Master, it is more wealth than any amount of money that can actually be given. And feet of the Master does not mean the physical feet, it means to be in the Presence of the Master in your heart. That is more wealth than any amount of money can ever give. But even broader wealth actually would mean the presence of happiness, peace and joy in our life is the wealth. That’s why I feel that if there is contentment, a being who is living in a small house with very little money, with hard work every day or not, is more wealthy than someone who is constantly concerned about his money.

So this is the second thing. The first was in terms of our relationships, second was in terms of our business / work / money, the third is in terms of our health, the body’s state. So if we believe very strongly that we are a body itself, then every minor fluctuation in the body’s state will make us fearful about our own existence. And I’m not saying that we must neglect the body; and have said often in satsang that if we’ve been given the gift of a beautiful car by a loved one, then it is okay to want to maintain the car and make sure that it is in good shape. But we must not say that ‘The car is me’.

Very good. Some questions are coming up, so let’s catch up on them.

So Suresh says, “Even when I am in anger also.”

So the anger can come strongly, momentarily, but like I said before, that you will not be able to hold onto it. Even the awakened beings have momentary times of anger. But if you speak to them in 5 minutes or 10 minutes, you will see it is back to the equanimous state. So they feel no resentment, they feel no guilt, they feel no pride about it; it is just that some energy takes over for a little while, and it is released. And you will know in your heart whether you were using this just as an excuse, or whether it is truly true for you. Because some of these things, at a certain level of understanding, then can be used by the ego as a defense, as an excuse itself. So you will know in your heart, the residue will be felt in your heart; and you will know whether this was really something which just appeared and disappeared without any residue, or whether there is some still remnants of the personhood which are still there.

Usstreamer845 says, “What about sex?”

So yes, we were talking about the second aspect, or the way we defined it today, the third aspect was the body. So we said that the body’s needs are very few. It will feel hunger, it will feel some desire, like sex will be felt, but the key to sex is not to give it some sense of specialness, or a sense of shame. Have a neutral perspective towards it, just like you would do with any other bodily need of hunger, of any other need that the body would have, of having a comfortable chair to sit on. So sex is another bodily need for which we should not believe the interpreter about. Because the interpreter will either make it about something which is shameful, and then it will have a lot of concepts around sex which will make it seem like something which is shameful, not to be talked about and not to be exposed; or something very special. And you’ve seen both these sets of cultural views also. Some people are just keeping count, saying ‘Wow, this is so special’ and some are saying that it is something to do with shame and never to be discussed. Both perspectives are to give it more reality than it deserves.

So we’ve looked at relationships, we’ve looked at wealth versus money, and we’ve looked at the body. What are the other concepts that can bother us?

Atma says, “Wealth is a much broader concept than money.”  Yes. Thank you, thank you.

Ustreamer476 says, “Your ‘voice’ is so pure, so deep peace is here. What a fortune, thank you.”   Thank you so much. Welcome, welcome.

Atma says, “I love you so much.”   I love you, too.

So there are 22 of us here, 23 if we count Amrinder. So we can all expose: what are the other concepts which still keep us in the idea of being trapped as a person? If there is something still which comes, then we can expose that and burn it in the fire of satsang itself.  And remember that, with all of these, you must not have an aversion to anything. I am not saying that you should have an aversion to any of this. I’m saying maintain a natural state of neutrality and let things unfold. Don’t have an aversion to money, don’t have an aversion to relationships, don’t have an aversion to the body and its needs; but don’t have an unnatural expectation from any of this. If you are expecting that happiness, peace and joy will come, lasting happiness, peace and joy will come from any of these, then you will see from your experience that this is not true.

Clare says, “Arising, congested energy.”

Yes, yes, and with this arising congested energy, we must just let it play out and it will release itself. Anything that comes cannot stay. But if you want it to go fast, if you resist it’s coming, then you’re perpetuating the length of its stay. You have infinite amount of space for any of these energies to come and play out. The whole universe is born as an energetic form inside you itself. The Being / Consciousness / God gives birth inside you, and if Being can give birth inside you, then these energies can come and go without your being even touched by them. No energy can touch you really. So be completely open and non-resisting to any of these energies.

Ana says, “Ananta, what is this bridge that makes the difference of me feeling as a person, or as nothing / everything? And who am I in this?

Okay, let me read this again. She says ‘Ananta, what is this bridge that makes the difference of me feeling as a person, or as nothing/everything? And who am I in this?’ The bridge seems to be that first there is a Pure Seeing in which we are nothing at all. And for some inexplicable reason, there is the birth of this Being. In the Pure Seeing itself there is the birth of this Being as a sense ‘I am’. And in the sense ‘I Amness” there is a sense that everything is me. And this everything seems to be a subset of Nothing itself; but it’s okay, we won’t get into that. So this then feels like everything phenomenal is also me. Until here, no trouble. Then the bridge seems to be that this concept comes very automatically, that it seems that ‘I am this person’. Because our conditioning has been so strong, from our parents and from our mind that ‘I am this person’. And once we cross this bridge, then we start catering to the life of this person. And we start looking at the world from our personal perspective.

But this bridge cannot be crossed without believing a thought. Therefore the bridge itself must be a thought. It can be any thought. But a thought, once believed, takes us from the pure sense of Beingness into the sense of being a person. It still never becomes true, but we seem to then live the life of this person. So belief in a thought seems to be the bridge to go from the Real to the seeming unreal; and to withdraw belief from the thought seems to be the way back home from the unreal to the Real.

Ana says, “I perceive this subtle movement when it is done in both directions.” Yes, exactly.

Ustreamer371 says, “I still believe that I must ‘fix’ other people; feel I know how they should be better than they do.”

It’s very good that you exposed this, because this is very common. When we start believing that ‘I know better’ then we try to thrust knowledge down other people’s throats. But in most situations this is found to be counter-productive, where the person builds an even higher wall. Therefore, I would say it is better for them to come to you and say ‘I feel something in your presence. Can you tell me what it is?’ Or even something more innocent, like ‘How are you always so unruffled? How do you retain this sense of peace and calm?’ So let them come and say that. That is one way. But if there is still an urge that you must share, then what you must do is gently knock. Gently knock and see if there is an opening; and even if there is a small opening then you can share with them. But if you find with the gentle knocking that the door is strongly closed, then don’t try to push the door down, because the Being will only make a stronger door, they will get a steel reinforced door.

Okay, Ustreamer45 says, “The ego is seen taking control of the inquiry, and it manifests in physical tension in this body.”

What seems to be said is that there is a sense of person doing the inquiry itself. It is very good that you were able to expose this. So it does seem like the inquiry starts off personally, but as the inquiry goes along, then you will see that the sense of personhood itself is dissolving. But if you find that it still continues to be a personal endeavor, that there is a ‘meditator’ who is meditating or ‘inquirer’ who is inquiring, then we are reinforcing the separateness in some way.

So the inquiry is very simple. When we say ‘who am I?’ very quickly we find that the person is not found. And only the Presence of a Seeing is here and then there is a Being here. This separate entity called the ‘person’ is not to be found. But if this kind of simple looking is not happening, and it becomes the more intellectual framework creation, or an intellectual understanding process, then that is the ego actually.

He says ‘The ego is taking control of the inquiry and it manifests in physical tension in the body’. Yes. It is very good that it manifests as physical tension in the body, otherwise you will not look at this and say ‘This is what is happening’. So life will always show us what still needs to be transcended. So if this physical tension was not coming in the body, then you may not even be open to the fact that ego has taken control of the inquiry. Therefore this is also a play of grace. So let this tension also appear and it will disappear, don’t try to fix the tension.

Zoe says, “Ustreamer 002371 is me.”  [Smiling broadly]. Okay, great.

Dee says, “Namaste beloved.”  Namaste.

Amaya says, “So very simple and beautiful, the bridge.”

Zoe says, “Thank you beloved Father.”   Thank you. Thank you my dear.

What we are speaking about is very simple. And we have used many phrases to explain the simplicity. For example, a very simple phrase we have used is ‘Fire the interpreter’. Just in this firing the interpreter is the end of your suffering.

The other phrase we have used is ‘Drop it’. ‘Drop it or let go’ meaning the same thing. Which means that the thought is appearing in front of us, attention does go to it on it’s own, so there is not so much control over it; but definitely we can decide whether to give it our belief or not. Like I said in the last satsang, if I were to say ‘Don’t think of a pink elephant’ immediately attention will go to the pink elephant, but if I say ‘Don’t believe that you are the pink elephant’ then that is not difficult to do. So, to withdraw belief seems easier than to withdraw attention; and we find that after belief is withdrawn from most thoughts, even our attention stops going to them. There is nothing attractive about them anymore, when we have withdrawn our belief from them.

So when we say ‘Drop it or let go’ it only means ‘Let the thoughts come and let them go’. We had even taken a very simple example of a pen. A pen is lying in front of you, don’t pick it up. But there will be moments when the pen is already in your hand; in that moment, you will drop it. That is all that is required to be done. Those are the only two states that are possible, that the pen is lying in front of you, or that you have picked it up. Which means that it is just another appearance, or you have given it your belief. So if it is an appearance, don’t give it your belief; if you find that you have given it your belief already, then you withdraw your belief now. We have really deconstructed this now into a very, very simple thing. And once we find that these thought patterns are not nourished, then we cannot perpetuate the life of the falsity of being a person.

Okay, let’s catch up on the chat.

Louise says, “Anantaji, what seems to be stuck here is that when anger comes at my children. The not wanting or the guilt about this keeps the person alive. Just wanting to expose. So much sadness about being mean to such innocents.”

No, but we can learn so much from our children. When we shout at them, how long can they hold their resentment? Can they hold it for more than a few minutes? And when they are frustrated and irritated, when we are stopping them from doing something, do they not get angry? Do they not shout? Do they not throw tantrums? But like you said, they are coming from a space of innocence. They are letting their energies get released but they are not holding on to anything. So this we can see is true about them, and will be true about us. When we are not listening to the voice of the interpreter, we will become just like children. In the moment, something might come, but 2-3 minutes later it’s all forgotten.

As children get older, then learning from us and learning from other grown-ups, they have now learnt how to keep their resentments, keep their concepts, believe their thoughts more and more; then the process of conditioning is becoming deeper and deeper. And this also must be some divine play in which to transcend the conditioning. It is such a beautiful experience that they will also go through it. All Beings that are born here go through the conditioning, and then ultimately go through the freedom from this conditioning also. So the same advice hold true here as well. ‘Don’t believe the interpreter’. That is just like our children are.

Ustreamer4019 says, “I am new. Do you have special regular times for this satsang?”

And Amrita, who is visible as sraopriyanka here, has typed out the satsang timings. They are Monday, Wednesday, Friday: 11 a.m. India time. And Tuesday, Thursday: 4:30 p.m. India time.

And Rashmi says, “Drop it, drop it…dropped.”  Yes. As Mooji says ‘3,2,1…drop it’.

Aradhana says, “This is the website link, but the website link does not show up on chat, it gets censored. The website link is anantasatsang.org”.

Rashmi says, “They are the sweetest.”   She is talking about the children. Very good.

Without believing the interpreter, you cannot suffer. And all our pursuits, all the directions we are taking in our life is to bring an end to suffering ultimately. It’s like we go all over the world, many times looking for the solution, but the solution has been under our very nose. Don’t you find it funny now, when we feel how many places we went to, to find our own Self? And where has Self been? It has always been only here. If the Self is true, then this must be Here Now. Therefore the realization only is that the Self has always been here.

Louise says, “Lol, thank you, Father. My youngest always says to me, ‘Mum, you don’t have to keep saying sorry here. It means I have to keep saying sorry back, and I’m not sorry anymore’.”

Yes. Exactly. For them it is ancient history. It happened 10 minutes ago, it happened way beyond their attention span anyway. But in our reminding them over and over, we are conditioning them to hold on to these things. So I would take their advice and drop it as soon as we can.

This, by the way, does not mean that the role of the parent will not be played now. Very spontaneously, very automatically, the Self can play the role of the parent; just like it played every other role. It has no trouble playing in this role of the parent also. But you do not have to become the parent. It is only a pretending that happens. Like you do not have to digest your food. What do you do to digest your food? What do you do to beat your heart? You do not do it. It is something which is doing it on its own. And this Beingness can play the role of the parent also very well.

Ustreamer845 says, “It seems to be impossible not to believe the interpreter. I still believe it, is it hopeless for me?”

Okay, let me try to interpret this sentence since am not getting it. ‘I still believe it. Is it hopeless for me?’ Yes. So, that’s what he’s saying. It seems like that initially. Because we are so habituated over many, many lifetimes, over billions of years, that to withdraw belief from our thoughts seems like it is impossible; some will say very difficult. But this much leap of faith, or this much trust you must try, to do it for short periods of time. ‘Okay’ the mind will say ‘drop your thoughts forever; it’s such a big deal’. So say ‘For the next 15 minutes, I will not believe a thought’. And you may find that it was easier than your mind was telling you. Because if you see, this is also a thought, isn’t it?

Actually it is no effort to let go of thoughts; the effort is actually in picking up. It’s like, my Master takes this example, he says, ‘You are so used to carrying these heavy bags, that when somebody says put them down, you say, ‘hey no, that’s a lot of work’. It’s a lot of work to put down these bags, because we are conditioned just to carrying them. They almost seem like they’ve become a part of us, and you’re asking me to give up something which is a part of me. You know, all these feelings of sacrifice and all that will come. That’s why, just experiment with it for a while. Just put them down for a little while, and you will find that the effort is actually in picking them up.

Therefore, for me it is true that, when a thought comes and when I have to engage with it, then it seems like too much work. And for what? Only to increase my misery. We have to work so hard, and for what? Only to make ourselves miserable. What have these thoughts ever given us? What will you do with these thoughts that God is not doing with your life anyway?

But yes, it is true initially, it does seem like that. So I’m saying don’t make a big deal out of it, don’t say ‘Now I have renounced all thoughts’. Don’t say stuff like this. Just say that ‘For the next few minutes I will not believe a thought’. And then what you find is that there might be some peace, some joy emerging, and you will see that there is more trust, more faith, and you will be ready to then renounce it for longer periods of time. This is probably one of your first few satsangs, so it’s okay, it’s absolutely fine.

Clare says, “I would like to expose all exclusion and resistance to others.”   Yes.

It is very good that you have exposed this. And also don’t make it an effortful thing to love everyone. In many paths it’s like ‘You have to love everyone’. But in that also there seems to be a sense of separation, where you are separate and everyone is separate. If it comes naturally for you, you will see that this oneness is already here, and you do not have to force yourself to love everyone in a phenomenal sense; which leads to even more separation actually. Because it leads to some sort of expectation that ‘I am loving but the other person is not loving back’ and all those kinds of concepts will come. Let it be a natural insight that all is one anyway. Don’t let it be a forced insight. Until then, you stay with your inquiry, and then this insight will emerge that ‘All this is one anyway’.

Okay, Ustreamer845 says something very good, they say, “If I try to drop them they come stronger.”   Yes.

This is very good. That means that I must clarify what I am saying. Because when we make it a fight, when we say ‘Thoughts must not come’ then they seem to come harder. When we make it a fight and we try to put a stop to them, then they seem to come harder. So what I am actually saying is to have a complete sense of openness to all thoughts. Don’t resist any thought, let them all come and let them go, that is dropping it. Means don’t resist, don’t engage with them, don’t serve them tea as the zen master said. Just let them come and let them go. That is what I mean by dropping thoughts. It’s like saying the pen is there. I am not saying the pen must go away. I am not saying this. I am just saying that I don’t engage with it, but I am completely open to the fact that it is there. But if we resist it, then it will seem to be stronger. So it is not about resistance, it is the opposite actually; it is complete openness. Let all thoughts come, let all feelings come. All that comes must eventually go. And you will see that, if you stand your ground and refuse to engage with them, their potential to cause suffering for you will not be there.

Rashmi says, “Love, love to all.”   Yes.

Suresh says, “ATM is getting weaker. Thank you sir.”   Very good. I think most of you know the ATM example now. That’s good.

Ustreamer845 says, “The ego knows now all the Advaita language and plays with it, and makes it shallow and trivial.”   Yes.

It’s very beautiful for you to have exposed this. It’s very good. To see this, to expose it, is to hand it over. And that’s why I say that suffering is pure grace. Because just by intellectual understanding and knowing all of the concepts, we might be able to beat other people in debates and arguments, but we will not be free from suffering in our lives.

That’s why suffering is pure grace, because it keeps coming up so that we transcend all our concepts and beliefs. And ultimately the understanding is that no concept is true. No matter how beautiful or Advaitic it might sound; even those are concepts. As Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi very beautifully said that all concepts are thorns which can only be used to remove other thorns, and then be discarded themselves. If we are still clinging on to some concepts, and not with the purpose of removing thorns, then we are getting attached to the idea of the false again. Very good.

Clare says, “Complete openness, that’s so helpful.” Yes.

Complete openness is just another way of saying the same thing, which is to say ‘Let go, drop it, complete openness’. Whichever one of these phrases appeals to you, you can stay with that; it all ultimately means the same thing.

Okay, so before we go today let’s complete our discussion about the various aspects of this ego which seem to play out. So first we said was the relationships aspect. Second we said was the business / work / wealth / money aspect, and third we talked about was the body aspect. And the fourth one is something which sort of leads to the dissolution of all the other aspects, which is when the desire for true purpose, and ultimately the desire for freedom emerges.

Even this actually starts off as a personal quest, to be free from suffering. It starts off as a personal quest, but ultimately it dissolves the person itself. So first, when this emerges strongly, it removes the other desires and the other expectations and aversions from our life; then it removes itself, because it removes the idea of the person itself. And that is when this desire emerges, that is when Beings come to satsang, or they take up other spiritual paths. And as long as there is an earnestness, and there is an integrity and honesty in this search, then the fruits of it are never far behind.

It is only when it sort of gets contaminated, when this also gets contaminated by one of the other three, or all of the other three, that we have seen that life stories of Beings seem to go in a different direction from the ultimate truth. It means that if the search for freedom then gets involved with the desire for money, then you could have someone who then knows all the spiritual concepts, but where it is coming from is the desire for money. And suffering is bound to emerge for such a Being also, to point them to the transcending of this.

Yes, so we have seen that when the desire for freedom then sometimes becomes proxy for the desire for better relationships, desire for more money, desire for better physical well-being, then it sort of becomes a distraction, just like the actual search for these other elements.

But ultimately, the good news is that all Beings must come to this pure desire for just the Self, for just freedom. Because suffering does not leave. Suffering does not leave. It is God’s gift that it does not leave us until we come to this point of only desiring freedom. And when this search for true guidance appears, then it is not possible that a true teacher will not appear. In fact, even if the teacher is seemingly false and caught up in various other ideas, then there might be something that he might say, or she might say, that might just lead to your freedom; because it is the refection of your own inner Satguru which is appearing outside. There is nothing special about the body of the teacher. Although it is great to be in the physical Presence of such a being, who has handed over the body to the Satguru itself; inherently there is nothing special about the body. It is your own inner Satguru which is using the mouth to say the words.

And the Universe is ever-ready to point us towards our freedom, if that is our truest desire. If you have had enough of the game, then it is very easy for the game to get over. But if you want to use spirituality to become better at the game, then the game will keep perpetuating and suffering will keep perpetuating.

So these are the four that we have identified as the main constituents of personhood. If there are any more… We have explored this before, but I am open to hearing if there are any more. So basically, these are the four. Just on these three – four things many, many lifetimes and so much chasing can happen.

Atma says, “No concept is true. Yes, Father. I love you.”   Love you, too. Very good.

All concepts of doership, specialness, false humility, arrogance, all of these are the aids or the helpful tools for the ego to perpetuate itself. So it seems all very complicated when we try to dissect it, but the good news is that the solution is very simple. The solution is: either we inquire and find out who you are; or you let go and surrender. And it’s not exclusive, both go hand in hand. As more inquiry happens, more surrendering will happen; and as more surrendering happens, more inquiry and more clarity will emerge on its own.

Cornelia says, “Suffering is a gift from grace.”   Yes, very good.

Ustreamer 845 says, “There is an attachment to be seen as a wise spiritual person and the admiration of some around me. Please take that with you.”

Very good. Very good that you are able to expose this. And in your handing it over, it is already given. Leave it with me, don’t ask for it back, and you will see that it will leave you very soon. But it is beautiful to see you sharing this openly, it’s very good.

[Silence]

Thank you all so very much for joining us in satsang today.

Moojiji ki Jai !

Sangha:  Moojiji ki Jai ! Anantaji ki Jai ! Thank you. Love you.

Observe how the mind is trying to create an expectation now.

It is trying to tell you that something special is going to happen.

Or it could even be the opposite, that it could be very boring.

Either thought could be coming to you.

Or any thought could be arising for you right now.

Be completely open to any thoughts which are coming.

Don’t be fearful of any thought which is arising.

Where does this thought come from?

Can you get to the source of this thought?

When the next thought comes, try to see where it is coming from.

Give all your attention to this.

Even the thought that no thoughts are coming now.

Where does this thought come from?

And after a thought appears, where is it, where is it appearing to us?

What is the space in which thought is appearing?

Is there any distance between this space and what I am?

And once this energy of thought is gone, can we see where it goes to?

Where does a thought go?

What makes us believe it was my thought?

In what way did you create this thought?

Wait for the next thought to appear, be completely open.

Invite all thoughts to come.

And when the thought appears, find the distance between yourself and this thought.

Notice that it seems to appear in front of you.

And even if appears to be appearing inside you,

What is the distance between the Seeing of the thought and the thought itself?

No effort is required, don’t try to do anything at all, let the words work on their own.

And don’t visualize anything. Don’t imagine anything.

See things as they are.

Let all thoughts come and all thoughts go.

Don’t control their coming or going.

Like a river flowing in front of you, let it flow, you don’t jump in.

Let the river flow, let all thoughts come and go.

You stand your ground.

Notice that the witnessing of the thoughts is unaffected by the content of the thought.

Observe whether awareness of the thought is affected by what the thought is saying.

What is the distance between you and this witnessing?

What separates you from it?

Observe that it is impossible for you to have ever been an object which was witnessed.

You have never been the body or the mind.

And you have always been this Pure Awareness itself.

This is Home, this is Freedom.

And you can never leave this.

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti.

Namaste everyone, a very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai !

Namaste. Very good. If you are joining us for the first time, you can ask your questions in the chat window. And it seems like the video and audio are good. Okay. If you are new here, just be aware that there is a one minute lag between the chat and the video, so you see the video one minute later than when it is actually recorded. Namaste, everyone. Very good.

So, let’s come down to basics again today. Let’s get down to the basics of what we are speaking about. So basically, what is it that we are saying? We are saying that for most of our past life we have had an energy, or a set of energies, which we mistook to be ourself. And even if the mistake was not that it is our own self, the mistake was that is was a good friend and guide. So if we were to ask ourselves: in the past so many years of our life, from the age of three onwards, who has been our biggest advisor? Can we say? For most of our life, what has been our greatest advisor, or what has been the advisor that we have listened to the most? For some of you this might seem like a very basic question, but just play along, play along for a while.

Clare says, “It has been the mind.”

Amrita says, “The mind.”

Everyone agrees? For most our lives this has been the advisor that we have listened to the most.

Cornelia says, “Mom.”

Stacey says, “The imaginary me.”  Yes.

Clare says, “But not anymore, thanks to satsang.”   Yes.

So basically we are saying this, that for a large part of our lives, right from three onwards, two and a half or three onwards, we have relied on the voice of the mind. And as we are looking at the basics, let’s keep it simple. What are we calling the mind? We can answer this: what are we calling the mind?

Ustreamer56 says, “Fear also.”  Yes.

Atma says, “Yes.”

Amrita says, “Maybe at age three, parents too.”   Yes.

But predominantly it has been the mind. Even when emotions and energies come; somebody said fear, somebody might say anger, somebody might say lust, any of these things come. It is the interpretation of these that ‘this should happen’ or ‘should not happen’ that is what we have taken as advice.

Rashmi says, “What needs to be done when your ego is responding to someone not behaving in the right way? There is so much anger and frustration. I try not to get pulled in to the storm, but somehow get pulled in.”

Yes, we will take this, we will come to this point after we do the basic contemplation that we are doing today. Just remind me if I forget, just remind me to answer the question. We will come back to this.

Wendy says, “Often intuition.”   Yes, very good, very good.

Ustreamer46 says, “Conditioning.”   Yes.

Clare says, “Energy of thoughts and imagination and conditioning, etc.”  Yes.

Atma says, “Mind. These voices in the head telling you all you should and need to do.”   Yes.

So basically, what is the mind? The mind is a bundle of thoughts and similar energy constructs. And when I say ‘similar energy constructs’ I am talking about imagination, I am talking about memory, all of these. And we can also, if you want to make it very simple, we can also put all the emotional appearances in this. For now, just for the sake of this discussion, we can put all the emotional appearances in this. So we can bundle one set of energy constructs which is thoughts, memory, imagination with another set of energy constructs which is fear, anger, rage, lust, greed, all of these emotional constructs. Also all of these energy constructs we bundle into one, and say ‘Okay this was the mind’.

So most of us are in agreement that for most of our life it has been this set of energies which we have relied upon. But in reliance upon these, we have not come to the point of lasting satisfaction, a lasting peace; a freedom from suffering has not been attained by anyone I can say through reliance on these energies. Can we all confirm that this is true?

Clare says, “Anything happening on the inside.”

Jyoti says, “I can’t remember, I have wondered if memory changes.”

Yes, yes. We have looked at this and actually it is very unreliable, this memory. But it is very convincing that this is exactly how it was. It tries to convince you because it paints a visual which seems to be so true, but it is very unreliable. If we can take a very simple example here quickly is that…, Mooji gave an example of a spiritual practice very jokingly, and he says that if I were to give you 26 spiritual push-ups then you would be happier maybe. So this is just something that was there. So when I came out of the satsang I remembered the number 26; but when some other sangha members came out they remembered 32, somebody remembered 38. You know? So very quickly…, and everyone was pretty sure that he said it this way. Therefore memory is a very unreliable witness.

And Jyoti says, “I don’t feel like I ever relied strongly upon mind.”

Yes, then you have been blessed. This is wonderful, very good. So most of us are saying yes, yes.

Atma says, “Never came to the point of lasting peace by reliance on this set of energies.”

Jyoti says, “Definitely to believe the mind would not lead to peace. “   Yes.

And it has not led to peace for most of humanity. Then what happens? Somewhere we realize that this following the mind, this chasing the mind’s goals, this going after the mind’s desires is not leading to the satisfaction which we hoped. Therefore the openness arises. Therefore there is an openness to look for a new solution to life. So it mostly starts off as a selfish pursuit to make the life of the person better. Most spiritual pursuits start with the desire to make the life of the person better. So when it starts, this desire for a new path, this desire for freedom is also as personal as a desire for any other material thing which could make the persons life better; that is the way it starts.

But the way in which the desire for freedom is different from the other desires is that if it becomes really strong, it first destroys all other desires. It is found in many cases, if this fire for the desire for freedom becomes stronger and stronger, first it burns all other desires. Everything else seems to become irrelevant for some time, and the primary purpose of life seems to become this desire for freedom. That is why we have seen that with spiritual seekers, all they want is God, all they want is freedom. No amount of material wealth, no amount of other things get in the way of their desire for freedom. So what started off as a personal desire then becomes something which burns out all the other desires. And in the seeking of this Truth, ultimately even this desire for freedom melts away, because it is realized that there is no person here anyway to even desire freedom. It is a realization, not just a mental understanding; although a mental understanding can also be useful at times. As long as it is not accompanied by a sense of specialness, a sense of personal specialness, then even an intellectual understanding is useful.

So we have followed the voice of the ego for many, many years and we came to the conclusion that life is not just this. There must be something more to life than running on this treadmill which is not getting us anywhere. So we start looking for new directions. And usually it is after there has been some strong suffering, or some amount of suffering at least, that our minds open up to the idea of a different way, to the idea of questioning our identity, our true identity. And remember that this is all a play of consciousness, so we are not talking about the level from which we are saying that ‘All of this is consciousness’ lila (leela) itself’. We are just talking about what seems to have been very apparent in our life so far. So when this desire for freedom comes, the Master will say ‘Who are you? Who is desiring even freedom?’

Let’s catch up on the chat.

Ustreamer78 says, “Mind. Suffering or pleasure, always suffering at the end.”  Yes.

Aradhana says, “Dissatisfaction and more tangles have been the outcome of relying on the mind-ego and operating from fear.”  Yes.

Atma says, “It’s true Father. This desire has burnt out all other desires. Also this desire for freedom is now leaving or has left.”

And I don’t want any of you to make tattoos out of anything that is being said. So don’t feel ‘Oh, there is still a desire for money here, so that means my desire for freedom is not enough’. No, no, no. We are not talking about it like this. We are saying primarily this desire for freedom becomes the most important focus; it doesn’t mean that all other desires just vanish. It’s just that this seems to become the primary focus, and the others lose their value and intensity. Yes. So then when this openness comes that ‘I really want to explore what is going on, and the so-called worldly knowledge doesn’t seem to offer any solutions to this’. The worldly knowledge is saying ‘Just a little more of this, just a little more of that, and then you will be happy; just improve your schedule and then you will be happy; just stop procrastinating and achieve more, then you will be happy; just put a system in place, then you will be happy; just get some more money in the bank, and then you will be happy; just get a better relationship, and then you will be happy; just have children, and then you will be happy; just do something charitable, do for others and then you will be happy; just love everyone and then you will be happy’. All these ideas will come, and we bite them. And some of them seem very attractive, that ‘This must be it’. But after trying many things like this for a while we realize that this also is not it.

And after trying all of these ideas, we have so much openness that we come in the presence of someone who says, first question: ‘Who is the one who wants even freedom?’ He says ‘So much you have said about the fact that all of this has been happening in your life, but whose life is it?’ He says ‘You have carried so many stories, usually about victimhood but sometimes about pride; but who are you in the first place?’ And in the presence of such a one, if there is some openness to look at the question, even for an instant with openness, then what emerges cannot be truly expressed in words. But to try to come close to what emerges is that the sense of individuality or the sense of person-hood completely dissolves. And what we seem to have read in books or scriptures that ‘This is all one’ is not just a concept anymore; it becomes a true experience that there is no individual person here anyway. And the play of life, the play of the person just becomes like any other game; it loses the bite, it loses the venom. So this is basically what we are speaking of.

Okay let’s catch up.

Atma said, “Yes, now this desire for freedom is leaving as well.”   Yes.

Rashmi says, “Yes, this is the most important in this life. Nothing else has the same priority.”

Ustreamer78 says, “Nothing is it.”   Yes,

Aradhana says, “Sounds so funny now, the ‘just do one more thing’ syndrome.”

Yes, almost there, almost there, no?

Cornelia says, “I have bitten every idea you have said.”   Yes, so have I in the past.

And Atma says, “Thank you Father, I hear you.”  Very good.

Aradhana says, “How foolish and yet strongly entrenched this enculturation.. (You are making me struggle, huh?) [Laughs].  “…enculturation process is, that it takes great suffering and a true Master to break the shell of ignorance open.”

Yes. Actually when the openness just is there, even a small crack, even a sliver of openness, then the Master emerges out of this same openness. We allow the Master to emerge in our life through even this small sliver of openness. That’s why they say, in India especially they say, that the Master arrives when the pupil invites him. (I don’t think I have ever used this word before, pupil. [Laughs]. I don’t know where it came from. People who are not familiar with this word, it means student). The Master emerges when the student is ready, or I would say that the student has a bit of openness to look at this. I have not heard of a case where there was true openness, but then the guidance was not available. The universe can not be so unkind. The play is not designed in this way. The play seems to be designed in the way that if there is openness, then the guidance emerges on it’s own actually. Because it has always been there, it is only that the openness makes it visible. Otherwise it is ignored.

Clare says, “Thank you, true Master.”  Okay.

The true Master who speaks through this mouth is the one that resides in your own heart. Very good.

Aradhana says, “Thank you so, so, so very much, Ananta, for pulling me through the little gap into the vast open space of freedom.”   Yes, this gratitude is good. This gratitude is very good.

Rashmi says, “So much gratitude to meet you and Mooji in this life. Thank you so much.”  Thank you, thank you, my dear.”

So then what happens is we see that the oneness, which was just bookish for us earlier or intellectual for us earlier, is actually the true state of being. And then we see that the mind has never pointed us to this ultimate truth. It has never pointed us towards our own Being and our own true self. It has always pointed us seemingly outwards. It has always pointed or created aversion for our attention. And that is when we lose trust in this mind. But many times it seems to play out in another way, where it becomes sort of a battle between the seemingly outside voice of the Master, whose words are also given back to this mind for approval. So words are heard in satsang, and we give them to our mind for approval. ‘Yes, yes, I agree; No, no, I disagree’. This one, this judgemental one, is the mind itself.

So many Beings along the way seem to get stuck with this. And the nature of the mind is such that a hundred great things could happen, even in relationship, any relationship; a hundred good things could be said, a hundred great things of love and kindness could be done, but the nature of the mind is such that it will cling on to the one negative. Or it will cling to the one statement which it finds to be untrue, and then it builds a story around that. Then that gives openness to doubt, openness to all kinds of negativity; even about the Guru or the Master. And there are many beings who fall into this.

Ultimately, I am not saying that all this is not grace, I am just saying that this is the way the play seems to play out. Just to look very scientifically, I can say that the beings that were in satsang the first year I met Mooji, the beings that came to satsang in the first year, many, many, many of them have dropped out because of belief in some silly thought or idea or negativity which they gave their attention to again. So in this way the seeming battle of the Mahabharat seems to play out, between the voice of the Master and the voice of the mind.

I have no doubt that in this play ultimately the winner will be the voice of the Guru. But for many, the voice of the mind still seems powerful. And even after the experience of awakening sometimes, experiences also of the oneness sometimes, this, the entire experience, the entire experience seems to be handed over to the interpreter again. And the ride continues like this, the roller coaster of life continues like this.

That is why it is my job, although I know that what happens will happen anyway, but it is my job to constantly remind you that ‘Don’t give even an inch to that mind, because in that inch it might take a mile’.

Ustreamer37 says, “When the pupil, I, opens…, light, Guru, comes in,”   Very good. (This one sounds like Kiran actually, no?)

Prema says, “Tears of gratitude for your presence Ananta.”   Very good.

Rashmi says, “Even a little taste of this freedom is so beautiful, this freedom from the grip of the mind.”    It’s very beautiful.

Ustreamer78 says, “Master and student, the last two-ness there is.”   It’s true.

Atma says, “I hear you, Father. Mind is not a negative thing, just we gave too much importance to it instead of our own real voice of heart.”

Cornelia says, “I am so lucky that I met you and Mooji, thank you.”

Atma says, “It is me-consciousness that gave this attention and belief to it, I see it clearly now.”

Yes. This is a play of consciousness only. Consciousness is the only doer; and that’s how we say that satsang is consciousness’ own rehab that it has made for itself. It’s very funny but that’s the way it seems to play out.

Aradhana says, “The feeling of wholeness is so full and inclusive through grace that even the seeming suffering of ego is seen as grace. Life prior to satsang seems auspicious, as it brought this life to the feet of the Satguru.”

Yes. All suffering will be seen as auspicious, and will be seen as grace, because it led to this freedom, it led to this openness first, which ultimately led to our freedom. That’s why many satsangs, when people are sharing stories about their suffering, I usually end up saying that it is very good that this happens. And to someone who is new to satsang, it might sound very cruel actually.

Atma says “I love your joy, Father, of constant reminder.”   Yes, thank you.

Jyoti says, “It is amazing how we could hear the same thing a hundred times but then eventually it sinks in,”   Yes.   “…so it is great to be reminded over and over again.”

It is because for millions of years, it can be said, we have believed that the sun rises from the west. We just took the word of our internal advisor sitting in our head, or interpreter sitting on our head, and believed that the sun rises from the west. Therefore if you have done this for millions of years, it might take some verification, one hundred times, two hundred times, to see that it never rose from the west, it always comes from the east only. And some lurking doubt might still remain even after checking a hundred times. That’s why, as Papaji said, vigilance is good. Vigilance is good and it’s good to have it. And he said actually that until the dying breath, vigilance is good.

Amrita says, “So true, Jyoti. Thank you for reminding us again and again, gently and compassionately.”  Very good.

Ustreamer746 says, “Still dreams appealing, as if they could bring happiness.”

Actually it’s the right word, to say ‘dreams’. It’s just like saying imagination. It’s just imagination to see that ‘It has not worked in the past, but just that little more, this final dream, this final goal; just do this one, and then you can become spiritual if you like’. These kind of things the mind can say, isn’t it? ‘Just a few more years, then only satsang’. It’s the trickster; that’s why we call it the trickster.

Actually, I remember once many years ago, I was reading Adya, (Adyashanti, for those who don’t know); I was reading Adyashanti, and in one of his books he said ‘Just write down what the mind is saying in a notebook’. Write down what the mind is saying in a notebook. And in that one process, there was so much insight. Because the mind speaks so much rubbish; it has to be said like that. It speaks so much rubbish, and we don’t even realize until we bring our attention so much to it, and say we’re going to write it down. In that process of writing, that distance between the thoughts and the perceiver, or the perceiving of thoughts; that distance became very clear.

So don’t wait for the mind’s approval of your freedom. No mind will approve of freedom. Even the mind that is here will say everyday; it will try to create some doubt, it will try to create some rubbish. All minds function in the same way. Ultimately, as Mooji says, it’s the same guy. Don’t wait for your mind’s acceptance of your freedom which is ever-present, which is right here, right now. Don’t make this a battle between the voice of the Guru and the voice of the mind. Because all that the Guru is saying is ‘Just see for yourself. Don’t even take my word for it; just see for yourself what is true’. And the mind will say ‘No, no. You tell me. I am not convinced. I don’t want to look for myself. I know what is true already. I don’t need to’.  Ultimately that is what the mind is saying, isn’t it? That is resistance.

Ustreamer46 says, “Defensiveness.”

Amrita says, “Yes, so much rubbish. The good thing is it’s so tiring that you drop it like a hot potato. Tiring to engage in the thought.”

It’s like we got addicted to a drug, and the drug stops making us feel good after a point. It initially seemed to be very great, and it defined our goals, it seemed to give us clarity. So initially the drug seemed very great. And then, we’ve been chasing the dragon. For those addicts, I don’t know if anyone knows about this, but there’s a term called ‘chasing the dragon’ which means that we’re chasing that initial high. So, what the peddler is saying? The peddler is saying ‘Just a little more. Just a little more and you’ll feel better. Just a little more, and you’ll feel good’. They keep buying the voice of this peddler, and buying more and more of this drug called the mind; until at some point…, and it seems for the rare beings, it happens that it is seen that ‘This drug of the mind, this drug of thoughts, is not doing me any good at all, so I need to come into rehab’. This rehab is satsang.

So, unfortunately for most beings it seems to be that even when the tiredness comes, they are buying some more drugs from the peddler itself, believing that it will make them feel better; which causes even more tiredness. If we were to believe every thought in our mind, then I feel that you would quickly become very, very depressed or very, very arrogant; or both, maybe.

Clare says, “I’m seeing clearly that I’m not energy.”  Good.

Ustreamer78, “This needs not even words from you; nothing.”

It is very true what you say, but it is usually best to let the Master say that this is true. Best to let the Master say that this is true.

Amrita says, “Satsang is like how to train your dragons.”  [Laughs].

Dee says, “Best rehab ever.”   Yes. [Laughs].

No, but sometimes it seems like the worst place to be, no? Satsang, especially for somebody new and coming for the first time, it seems like torture sometimes. And I’ve seen those expressions also in satsang. It seems like pure torture for the mind actually. That’s why I say that if you come back for the second time, it must mean that there was a connection in the heart. Because first time you come it could be for curiosity, it could be very personal, it could be something. But it is so much actual torture for the mind to come to this rehab for the first time, that if you come for the second time it must have been some connection from the heart. So, it’s like rehab with no restraints. Nobody can force the patient to stay. You cannot force the patient to come, and force the patient to stay. It is only that life cultivates a situation where the ego runs out of moves and they find themselves in rehab.

Ajnani says, “Here the mind is continually trying to latch onto what awareness is, and be that. Totally impossible to understand awareness, but it won’t give up. Thank goodness this cannot touch the Self.”

It can do that, no? It can paint a picture of awareness; it can paint a visual of pure awareness. It will give you some space, some imagery, some visual metaphor about what awareness is, and say ‘Yes, yes. We feel good about it. Buddy, this is what it is, see? We’re in this together. I’m showing you what you really are’. And what it is showing you is a visual of blank, empty space; it is black, or white, or something. So it tries to use imagination to try to be your ally along this path. That’s very good that you can see it.

Louise says, “Torture today.”

So, what are the beliefs that are being acceptance that it is becoming torture? Is it that the words are making no sense? Or is it that it is seeming very boring? You know, all these resistances and doubts can come in satsang. It’s very natural. Sometimes it can be ‘Too much satsang. I just need a break from this’. So these kind of resistances can all come. But it’s good if you let them get released. If they have to get vomited up, let them be vomited out. Do not feel that something should not happen. So, if there are some pent up energies like this; even anger… Somebody came to Mooji in satsang once and said ‘This morning I saw you outside the chai shop, and my mind wanted to throw this hot cup of tea at you’. And he was so shocked that the mind behaved like this that he went up to the hot seat and exposed this. Because it is the mind’s job to fight this. It seems like it is the battle of supremacy between the voice of the Guru and the voice of the mind.

And I don’t mind, even if there’s some angry thoughts coming against me, if there’s some strong doubt which is coming against me, if you feel that all that is being spoken of isn’t making any sense, I don’t mind if that gets exposed in satsang. You can say it, that ‘This is making no sense what you’re saying’. Then we can look at it together. There’s complete openness here even to be corrected. Because I know that the source of the words is not this person anyway. It would only be a temporary phase of something coming up and going. But in your heart you love the truth so much, in your heart you love me too much for this to become a situation which can really grab you now.

I’m not sure actually if we’re online. Something got interrupted and it seems to be back again. So if you can confirm that you are able to watch all of this.

Amrita says, “Love you.”  Love you, too.

And Louise says, “But where else would I be?”  Yes.

Ustreamer37 says, “It’s a torture sometimes even, because the Guru catches you from the throat and shakes you up.”

Atma says, “Feeling so light now. Thank you, Father.”

Atma says, “Video is off, but audio is okay.”

Louise says, “Lost connection.”  Did you hear what I was saying to you? Or did this whole situation add to the torture? [Laughs].

Stacy says, “Video is off, but can hear you.”

“Can hear but no picture.”

Amrita says, “You were cut off at ‘words of the Source’. Can you please repeat?”

There’s no recollection here of what was said, so repeating just doesn’t seem possible.

Ajnani says, “So it is seen how the word ‘awareness’ brings a storm in the mind, so sometimes saying ‘the Self’ is easier, but for whom? Who is following instructions when no one is there?”

It is consciousness itself. Consciousness, beingness, is the one doer who is following or not following. It is its own movie, it is its own characters, it is its own play.

So, Wendy says, “Hear you, but lost video.”  Many of you have lost video.

[Laughs]. Louise says ‘No, she’s not’.

So, is the video back now, or should I try to reconnect? So, the video is back, Amrita? Video is still off, Atma says. “Yes, it’s back.” So, I’ll just assume it’s back, and the rest of you can keep refreshing until it comes.

Aradhana says, “Can hear…” But no video, I’m presuming.  “It’s like god is speaking; a formless god.” [Laughs].

Stacy says, “I’ve been having trouble staying awake in this satsang, which is not common for me. I don’t know if that’s an avoidance at some level, or just because it’s late here. Seem to drift off easily.”  If it’s happening rarely, every once in a while, it is absolutely fine. Good.  “…sometimes when the mind goes away. But feeling very light, and just watching all of this.”

Okay, I won’t attempt to read everything, but just catch up where we are. Atma is saying, “Video is now okay.” And Wendy says, “Refreshed. Both are back now.”

So, for Louise, the sense of what I was saying was that all this torture can come, but in your case I can say that you love the truth too much, and you love me too much, for it to be a permanent problem. So, let this torture come, let it do its best; but I know that in your heart we are one. In our heart, we are one. Therefore, I’m not worried about this play of whatever negativity might be just temporary.

Ajnani says, “When I ask for who it is questioning, there’s a subtle ghost that creeps in at times.”

But all is made up of this consciousness itself. This primal phenomenal energy which is called consciousness, all is made up of this. And it must be having some fun or some entertainment to play the game in this way; and that is why our idea of fun has become like this. When we read a novel or we watch a movie, there must be some ups and downs, there must be some challenges, there must be some heroes and some villains for it to become entertaining. In the same way, this seems to be God’s entertainment. I know that for some of you this will sound like this is something very cruel. But to say that it is something very cruel is to give it more reality than it deserves.

Louise says, “Wee tears.”  ‘Wee’ could be ‘Whee! Tears.’ or ‘little bit of tears’. Not sure which one you’re saying.  “Thank you Father.”  Thank you, my dear.

Ustreamer78, “God is the dreamer and the dream.”

And this dreamer and the dream both give birth within you. You are the awareness within which even this dreamer and this dream are born.

Dee says, “Master, I offer up anything personal remaining to you.”   Very good.  “And I don’t want it back.”  Yes.

Louise says, “It meant little.”

Ajnani says, “Thank you, Father. I love you so much.”  I love you, too, my dear.  Good.  “Just love to expose everything…”  Yes. Good.   “…and place it in the fire.”

It’s very good to expose, and put in the fire. Because as long as we’re holding onto things then true satsang, which is the Presence; the Presence cannot flow as long as our fist is closed. As soon as you open, completely open, then it is the Presence that flows, and in the Presence is the true satsang. It is not in the words. If it was only in the words, it would only be an intellectual debate. It would only be philosophical arguments or philosophical discussions.

Ajnani says, “I leave no stone unturned.”  Yes. That’s very good.

I’m so amazed at all of you. You’re all so beautiful and amazing. You’re the true reflection of the Master himself. Sometimes I really feel I would like to sit at your feet, actually. There is so much innocence and so much peace and love; and the love that you feel for me…, my head is forever bowed down to this love.

What more to say now?  [Silence].

Thank you all so very much. [Namaste, head bowed].

Moojiji ki Jai ! [Blows kiss, waves].

Sangha:  Moojiji ki Jai !  Anantaji ki Jai ! Thank you. Love you.

Q: “I leave no stone unturned.”

Yes. That’s very good.

I’m so amazed at all of you.

You’re all so beautiful and amazing.

You’re the true reflection of the Master himself.

Sometimes I really feel I would like to sit at your feet, actually.

There is so much innocence and so much peace and love.

And the love that you feel for me…, my head is forever bowed down to this love.

What more to say now?  [Silence to end].

Thank you all so very much.

[Namaste, head bowed].

Moojiji ki Jai !

Namaste everyone. A very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai!

I decided to come in a little early today to see if the internet is working fine. It was giving us lots of trouble yesterday. Seems to be very good. If you can see this video and hear the audio well, please let us know.

Shanti says, “Namaste Father, I am waiting for the picture.”

Okay. Can anyone see the picture? “It is showing live but no audio or video.”

Hmmmmm.

Now Ana says, “It’s okay here. Namaste” And Rashmi says, “The video is fine for me.” And how about the audio? “And the audio is fine too.” Wonderful. Okay. Thank you.

If you are joining us for the first time, use the chat window to ask your questions. Namaste everyone. Very good. Okay. What would you like to speak about today?  Namaste. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Okay.

Atma says, “About a realization, state of being always relaxed is realization.”

Realization or relaxation? So Atma’s question is,..,.is this a question really? About a relaxation? State of always being relaxed…? [Smiles]. Relaxation? So what is the question really? Is it, how to get to a state of being relaxed? Is that the question?

“No.” Okay. [Smiles]. “Not the question. How to be always relaxed.”  Okay. “Be always relaxed.”

Can you be not relaxed? In what way are you not relaxed at any point of time?

Wow, Lucien is typing really fast, so let’s get to his question. And then we will come to the relaxation.

Lucien says, “Beloved Ananta, when I hear Mooji speaking of going beyond ‘I am’ I feel two things. I feel I’m already there, so there is no place to go.”  Yes.  “But there is also a feeling of separation, like something is beyond. Okay. I feel more to say that ‘Presence is self-aware’ or ‘I am That’ or that ‘Awareness is present and self- aware’. But I don’t want to give ego any room to rest in some dead <something censored> intuition in that everything. Some intuition is that everything is just a vehicle or trigger for the impersonal Seeing. So I want to be free more than I want to understand. But if you could shed some light on this and on me, please do. Love you.”

Love you, too. Thank you so much.

So he says ‘When I hear Mooji speaking of going beyond ‘I am’ I feel two things. That I’m already there’. Yes. So what is beyond ‘I am’? Even in the sense ‘I am’ there is a perceiving of it. Or there is an awareness of it. So are you closer to the sense ‘I am’ or do you find that you are the Awareness itself? So the Master says, go beyond even this sense ‘I am’. What he is saying is that ultimately even this is seen. And ultimately you are not even this sense ‘I am’. And you say that in an instant you feel that you are already there. Yes. So there is no place to go. Yes.

‘But there is also a feeling of separation, like something is beyond’. No. If you are aware of the sense ‘I am’ then you are the beyond already. Even to say that ‘I am aware right now’ takes you beyond the sense ‘I am’ also. Because it is not the sense ‘I am’ which is aware, it is only the Awareness which is aware of itself.

So look at it very simply. Look at pure awareness as a pure Seeing. And the sense ‘I am’ as the pure Being. And this Being comes from this Seeing itself, because without this Seeing no one can ever testify to the presence of this Being. You can be without the Being, the Being cannot be without you. Therefore the instant you say that ‘I am aware of the sense I am’ in that instant you have already gone beyond the identification with the sense ‘I am’.

These words are very powerful actually. Because in most parts, even to get to the sense ‘I am’ is called self-realization. But here, what is being said is that the instant there is an awareness of this sense ‘I am’ means the Awareness is prior to even this birth of consciousness, of even this consciousness. But it is not somewhere that we have to get to. It is only something we must see is already true. We must see that this is already true. Who is aware of the sense ‘I am’? And what is aware of this Awareness also? It is only that One Awareness.

Then you say ‘I feel more to say that presence is self-aware or I am That’. So, see that the Presence is here. In what way is the Presence aware of anything? Contemplate this. In what way is the Being aware of anything? Is it a different awareness between awareness itself and a different awareness of Being? Or is it not the same awareness itself? So first there seems to be a pure Seeing, and within that there seems to arise pure Being. But the Seeing does not change. The Seeing does not change, does it?

‘So there is an intuition that everything is just a vehicle or trigger for the impersonal Seeing’. The impersonal Seeing does not require a vehicle or trigger, it is just always this Seeing itself.  It is ever-unchanging, never triggered, nothing actually touches it. No phenomena can actually touch it.

‘So I want to be free more than I want to understand. But if you could shed some light on this and on me, please do’. Is it clear now?

Then he says, “I am sorry for the long message.”  No, no, it’s absolutely fine.

Okay. Atma says, “If I am busy with the mind, if I am busy with the mind, then how to get relaxed?” [Smiles].

That is like asking that if I am running, how can I be stationary and running at the same time? Being relaxed cannot come along with being busy with the mind. When we are busy with the mind, that means that we are busy with; in a tense state. But do not be busy with the mind. It is always a relaxed state. And ultimately, whether it is a stressed state or a tense state or a relaxed state, your state is not changing, isn’t it? The pure Seeing itself is always the same. Unchanging, irrespective of whatever content is appearing here.

Ajnani says, “Some Advaita teachers are talking about enlightenment and God-realization are two different things. Is this true?”

Yes, I have seen this also, where many are saying that, coming to the sense ‘I am’ is to say this sense ‘I am’ is the Self; and coming to the understanding that ‘I am the witnessing of even this pure sense I am’ is God-realization. I have seen this in many parts in India also. They say that coming to this sense of Beingness is discovery of the Self and coming to the discovery of this pure Awareness is God-realization; they say like that.

But the way it is said here, is that coming to this sense that ‘I am this pure Awareness itself’… that is self-realization, which is the same as God-realization. In fact, we often refer to God as the birth of the consciousness within this Awareness itself. So these definitions are a little opposite to each other, but it’s not the label which is important. What is important is not the label that we are putting on it, but whether this has become our true experience or not; and whether it’s gone from just being an intellectual understanding to be a deeper Seeing.

Atma says, “When I am busy with the mind and busy with body, how to be same time relaxed?”  We answered that.

Jyoti says, “I am and I am aware that I am. But I can’t really distinguish between them.”

In deep sleep state, are you aware of the ‘I am’? No, we just wake up in the morning and say we had some good sleep; we had some very restful sleep. That means the pure Awareness was there. Or somebody will say ‘I had lots of dreams’. This means the Awareness was there, and then the sense ‘I am’ came in this dream state and it went. But the Awareness is the one constant. Therefore, in the deep sleep state, even the sense ‘I am’ is not there. There is awareness that I went to sleep, and there is an awareness that I woke up from the sleep. We says sometimes in satsang that if I were to go to sleep right now and were to wake up in sometime and say ‘I went to sleep’ then there is something that is aware that I went to sleep. Very good. So there is an Awareness of even this pure presence ‘I am’. The Beingness wakes up inside the pure Awareness itself.

Jyoti says, “Is that also your experience? Or could you somehow distinguish some difference between them?”

Yes. The only way to say…and ultimately they are the same…but the only way to say it is: if there is some distance / difference is that, there is a Pure Seeing; a Seeing even of the Beingness. And Beingness is present here now. So even that is seen, therefore we can say that Awareness is prior even to this Beingness.

Atma says, “Sometimes, when I am too busy with both at the same time, I feel like being pulled away from something, seems to be like that.”

Don’t get busy with the mind. Let go of all the thoughts and let life unfold on it’s own. If anything convinces you that you need to get busy with the mind for this, then don’t give it that attention. And very conveniently like a tool you will use the mind just once in a while to schedule an appointment or fix a meeting. These very practical things just momentarily, you will refer to something and you will use it as a tool. But the meaning of getting busy with it means to get involved with it in some way. Nothing requires our involvement with the mind. Only the mind will convince you that involvement is required.

Good. So Rashmi says, “The Being just feels like being, and something is aware of the Being.”   And something is aware of the Being. Exactly.

Jyoti says, “You answered my question before you saw it.”  Okay. It’s all good.

Prema says, “Yes, pure Seeing doesn’t change.”

Atma says, “I see this question came from this tensed state, not from the relaxed one.”

I got it. So handover the tension now to Satsang. Hand it over to me, it is my problem now.

Lucien says, “I loved your response.”  Thank you very much my dear.

Ajnani says, “Thank you, it is very clear.”  Good, good.

Atma says, “The questions come from the mind itself. I see it. It’s clear now, thank you.”

And don’t have a fear of asking questions in Satsang. It’s absolutely fine, if sometimes its’ coming from the mind, it’s absolutely fine. There is no report card at the end of the semester here.

Thank you, thank you, Jyoti.

Lucien says, “Only mind asks this.”  Yes. It loses power anyway.

Shanti says, “Dear Father, can you guide us in a meditation at some point in this satsang?”  Yes. We can do that.

Ustreamer170 says, “Sri Ramana says Seeing is Being.”

Yes, ultimately, this Seeing is Being. So look at it this way, that there is only Pure Seeing. Pure Seeing is all there is. And then it is our experience that Being arises. So if Seeing were all there is, this Being must be made of this Seeing alone. So it seems to be a modulated form of this Seeing itself. Just like ice is a modulated form of this water. If water is all there is then all that arises must be made up of water only. It might have different properties, like Being has a different property than Seeing, but it must be made up of only this Seeing. Because we have seen that Seeing is all there is.

So Atma says, “Thank you.”

Rashmi says, “It is so silly that the inquiry itself is not true; comes from the mind.”

A thorn is used to remove another thorn and then both the thorns are thrown away.

Clare says, “I gratefully lay all habits of going to attention at your feet.”   Good, good.

So have you noticed that there are two separate forces that play, ultimately coming from the same Oneness, but they seem to be two separate forces at play? One is the sense of attention, the power of attention; and the second is the power of belief. And both seem to operate in different ways. Many times, if we try to avoid our attention going to something, if I say don’t think of a pink elephant, then right now attention would have gone to a pink elephant. So when we try to avoid bringing our attention to something, then attention seems to jump over there. And the second force is the power of belief. Which seems to operate a little differently. So I say don’t believe that you are a pink elephant; so you can easily not believe you are a pink elephant. So initially it seems easier not to give our belief to something.

So amongst these two primordial powers in some sense, which are born with the birth of Being itself, amongst these two primordial powers, it seems easier to not give our belief to something than not to give our attention to something. And then it is found that our belief is withdrawn over a period of time. Then it becomes easier not to give it our attention also. So initially it is absolutely fine to not give belief to any thought. And don’t try avoiding attention to something initially, because it will jump especially to that point if you fight with the attention. Even if attention goes to a thought, it does not have any power over you without your belief in it. And ultimately when attention itself seems to be withdrawn, there is no question of belief at all.

Ustreamer170 says, “Thank you Master.”   Thank you, my dear.

Jyoti says, “Is space a thought or idea? It seems like a sensation.”

So space has many definitions. So refer to space as this phenomenal space which is born after the birth of Being itself. Time and Space are born after the birth of being itself. Some also refer to Awareness as pure space. The pure nothingness or the pure space itself. There is a sense of spaciousness about it, so I can understand when they say that Awareness itself is pure space. And I would say that it is more a primal knowing than a feeling. So, a more primal knowing, like when they say ‘Are you aware now?’ it is not a feeling that you are aware, it is actually a more primal thing that you know that you are aware. The same as saying, ‘Are you being now?’ is a more primal Seeing than just another feeling which is dancing in front of us. You know what I mean?

Louise says, “Father, am noticing that the attention seems only with Satsang, all day, every day. But it is a seeking or trying that all the attention is with. It is becoming clear that this is a dream also. But so much energy is going into this seeking.”

‘Am noticing that the attention seems only with Satsang, all day, every day. But it is a seeking or trying that all the attention is with’ So if you’ve taken the simple route, the simple route is to let go of all thoughts, the laziest way to enlightenment. So just let them come and let them go, that is the simple truth. So if you are talking about this route, then it seems like, initially it seems like it takes some effort to let go. But very quickly you will see that this letting go is not effort at all. In fact, it is effort to pick up. So the sense I get from your question is that there is a grasping, or a trying or a seeking sort of energy involved with this Satsang that you are talking about. So in this trying, seeking can also be let go. Just be completely open and non-resistant, that’s the simplest route. That’s the simplest state. It would not be inaccurate to say, it seems like the simplest yet most powerful route. If a route is required at all.

Clare, thank you.

Jyoti says, “Yes I understand.”

So if there’s a trying to get to something, a trying to become something, then that becomes the same guy, it is the same ego which is saying you must try to do it now. But if it is a natural letting go, then it is absolutely fine.

Jyoti says, “I am not really sure which kind of space I am contemplating about.”

Yes, then for you, you let go of this concept of space. Then you let go of the concept of space. Sometimes, these are just metaphors for explaining, but if they don’t hit home, they were not required at all. If it is clear to you that awareness is here and you are that, then you don’t need to apply a visual metaphor like space, or any other metaphor for it.

Atma says, “The easiest way to enlightenment is to let go of all thoughts.”

Shanti had said, “Can we do a meditation today?”  So let’s get to that.

Observe how the mind is trying to create an expectation now. It is trying to tell you that something special is going to happen, or it could even be the opposite. That it could be very boring. Either thought could be coming to you. Or any thought. It could be arising for you right now. Be completely open to any thoughts which are coming. Don’t be fearful of any thought which is arising. Where does this thought come from? Can you get to the source of this thought? When the next thought comes, try to see where it is coming from, give all your attention to this. Even the thought that no thoughts are coming now. Where does this thought come from?

And after a thought appears, where is it, where is it appearing to us? What is the space in which thought is appearing? Is there any distance between this space and what I am? And once this energy of thought is gone, can we see where it goes to? Where does a thought go? What makes us believe it was my thought? In what way did you create this thought?

Wait for the next thought to appear, be completely open, invite all thoughts to come. And when the thought appears, find the distance between yourself and this thought. Notice that it seems to appear in front of you. And even if appears to be appearing inside you, what is the distance between the Seeing of the thought and the thought itself?

No effort is required, don’t try to do anything at all, let the words work on their own. And don’t visualize anything. Don’t imagine anything. See things as they are. Let all thoughts come and all thoughts go. Don’t control their coming or going. Like a river flowing in front of you, let it flow, you don’t jump in. Let the river flow, let all thoughts come and go. You stand your ground. Notice that the witnessing of the thoughts is unaffected by the content of the thought. Observe whether awareness of the thought is affected by what the thought is saying.

What is the distance between you and this witnessing? What separates you from it? Observe that it is impossible for you to have ever been an object which was witnessed. You have never been the body or the mind. And you have always been this Pure Awareness itself. This is Home, this is Freedom. And you can never leave this. Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti.

And if your eyes are closed, you may gently open them if you feel like. Thank you.

Atma says, “Something is open here.”  Very good, very good.

Thank you, thank you. It actually seems like a miracle or a Divine mystery how we could have spent so much of time just relying on our thoughts. In this great play of Maya, this is the great mystery. How Beingness itself started identifying with the energies that it created on its own.

Rashmi says, “Seems like a meltdown is coming.”   Good, good, good. You must take some photos.

And Shanti says, “Beautiful and freeing. Thank you. I will rest in this.”

Thank you Cornelia.

Ustreamer170 says, “This identity is seen like balloon, seeking attention. I leave it here.”

Yes, very good, you can leave it here. Good.

Jyoti says, “She brings a smile to my heart every time I see her [Ananta’s daughter was on screen a moment], Sita.”

She can be quite a brat. It’s like Dee or Kamayani had posted once, no? It said, “If you ever feel you are awake or enlightened, spend a weekend with your family.”

Atma says, “Thank you Father for your guidance and love.” Very welcome.

Cornelia says, “With family, great challenges.”

And it’s wonderful that these challenges come so that they can be transcended.

Shanti says, “Thank you Father for your loving presence.” Thank you so much, thank you.

Rashmi says, “I had my two little boys jumping around during this satsang.”

Yes I know the feeling completely. Hard to pay attention. It’s all fine.

Thank you all so much for joining us in Satsang today.

Moojiji ki Jai ! [Namaste]. So much love to all of you .

Sangha: Anataji ki Jai.

Namaste, everyone. A very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai !

I am very sorry I’m late. There were some technical difficulties we faced on that part of the house, and we are now on not such a great internet connection. So I am not even sure how long this is going to last, but nonetheless it is so wonderful to be with all of you. And if you can see this and hear this, if you can confirm that it’s fine. Okay, Wendy says ‘See and hear you well’. Very good. So I have spent the last fifteen minutes trying to figure out some portion of the house where the internet seems to be working fine. And finally I am here now. Okay, excellent, excellent, excellent.

I feel we have had a very beautiful set of contemplations over the last couple of days, and the idea of being a person must be becoming a distant concept for most of you now. Of course the idea will rear it’s head once in a while; he’ll come back up again trying to convince you that you have always been this person. But now with the power of satsang, it cannot last.

Actually, there is another misconception that being spiritual means that we are unscientific. Many beings feel, in our families and other beings around, many beings feel that if we are spiritual that would mean that we are non-scientific. But actually true spirituality begins on the edges of science. After the conclusion of science has been made, then the spiritualist, the true spiritualist is still asking the questions. For example, a scientist will say that light travels at a certain speed, 15 miles a millisecond or some speed like that. It will say light travels at a particular speed, and it is satisfied with those kind of conclusions. But in spirituality we are saying; ‘What force or what intelligence decided that this is the constant speed of light?’

Biology will say that evolution is what happens, so every generation there is some mutation and a change in the dna, some genetic structure, and all the entire species is affected by this evolution. So a biologist will come to these kind of conclusions. But a true spiritualist will say ‘How does this intelligence get carried forward across so many beings, who could be spread across various continents. What intelligence is the storehouse for evolution?’

A physicist will say that gravity acts with a particular force on all objects. And a spiritualist will say ‘Who decided this value? Because it clearly was not a committee of people that got together and said that gravity should operate like this’. Therefore if somebody says that this is purely to do with unscientific concepts, then we can ask these questions to the scientists; and they are answering these questions which even science can not answer now.

And science is also slowly coming to the same conclusions; science is coming to the conclusion that there is no personal doership. We took this example before; in a BBC study they found that the impulses for the hand to move actually travel six seconds before the hand actually moves, even before the thought of moving the hand is there. Therefore they are also coming to the conclusion that it is consciousness which is doing all of this. And they are coming to conclusions which are similar to Advaita anyway; with concepts of the unified field, and quantum physics. It is all coming to the same conclusions.

So ours is a very scientific exploration actually. It is far from just using imagination. In fact, it is the world. Most of the beings in the world are caught up in their imagination of being a person and leading a personal life. Here we have cut through those imaginary concepts and delusions, and we are looking at it very plain and simply, in a very scientific manner. Very good.

Amrita says, “Nothing can last.”

Atma says, “We are both spiritualist and scientist.”  Yes. “I love this unity,” she says.

Dee says, “Yes, science meets non-duality.”  Yes.

Rashmi says, “How beautiful.”

In fact, in the olden days they had it right, because if you look at the degree, (I don’t know whether Om is here just now), but if you look at degrees, you get something called a PhD. If you are really accomplished in something, you get something which is called a PhD. And what does a PhD stand for? It stands for doctor of philosophy. So it is found that at the edge of every field, it becomes a philosophy.

Cornelia says, “Mind is late by six seconds, saw the video.”  Yes exactly that one.

Ajnani says, “They come to conclusion that conditioned mind is making illness.”

Yes. And also another conclusion they have come to is that a jnani yogi or the paths of unity, which is through the understanding, means that it is bereft of devotion or love or peace and joy; which is completely not true actually. Because any paths that we might take, in the conclusion of the path all these combine. In any paths, if we are left with the conclusion that the individual doer entity is what I am and it exists as reality, then it is not a true path. All paths lead you to the point where they are saying that this individual doer entity just does not exist; or at least they point you to the fact that it has no power. So if any spiritual path is reinforcing the concept of the individual doer entity, then it is not bringing you to freedom. Freedom only means freedom from this concept of being a person.

[Silence]

Amrita says, “There are a few videos of physicists, mathematicians meeting Mooji and finding that their teachings comply with teachings of Advaita.”   Yes.

Atma says, “One includes the other, they merge one into another.”  Yes.

So what is the basic hypothesis that we are tackling in satsang? We are trying to disprove the hypothesis that ‘I am an individual entity’.

Wendy says, “If I stay as non-personal awareness, yet consciousness is the one interested in quantum physics; is the memory of all appearing within the field of me?”

‘If stay non-personal awareness, yet consciousness is the one interested in quantum physics; is the memory of all appearing within the field of me?’ Yes, consciousness is all there is. So any interest must come from consciousness itself. Even the interest of being a person is the interest of consciousness. Therefore satsang is consciousness speaking to consciousness.

She says, “…meaning, interests and memories are now seen as consciousness, so is this okay if not personalized at all?”

Yes, yes, it is perfectly fine. So, to see that this book is red in color is perfectly fine; but to give it the power to make us suffer because it is red and not blue, that is not fine, because that comes from a personal perspective. But just to observe that this is what it appears to be is absolutely fine.

Atma says, “Father, it is every moment more and more clear that I am not an individual entity. Everything in life now points me to see it.”  Yes, very good.

And every satsang is taking us deeper into this contemplation and stabilizing in this conclusion that the individual entity was never real.

Thank you, Wendy.

So what practise must awareness do to be awareness? And what practise must beingness do to become beingness?

Ajnani says, “I am is the name of all of us.”  Yes.

Atma says, “Yes, every satsang going deeper. Love you so much.”

What practise must awareness do to become awareness, and what practise must beingness do to become beingness?

Clare says, “None,”

Dee says, “No practise,”

Ajnani says, “Not any.”

Now let’s look at it the other way around: What can you do, or what can be done, so that you stop being the awareness? What action makes you something else?

Dee says, “The question sounds so funny now.”

Yes, yes, this one will be even funnier, this one is even funnier: What action can you do that will stop you from being awareness?

Cornelia says, “Some practise at the beginning.”

Now the question is: What practise will you do that makes you stop being the awareness? What can make you become something else?

“None, nothing, none.”  Yes.

Then are you saying that no matter what happens…, are you saying that no matter WHAT happens, I am always the awareness alone? Is that what you are saying now?

Ajnani says, “No action. Even if false identification is there, still awareness is here.”  Yes.

Atma says, “Nothing. <censored> powerful is the seeing.”

Ustreamer522 says, “Yes.”   Very good.

Dee says, “Yes, always the awareness alone.”

Wendy says, “Nothing can in truth.”

Ajnani says, “Yes,”

Wendy says, “Yes.”

Are you sure? That no matter what happens, you are always the awareness alone?

Cornelia says, “I am, even if I don’t know.”

But in this ‘I don’t know’ you’re presuming that the person does not know; but in our case we can check and see that even though the personal …

Okay I’m back now, if you’re not able to see this, then just refresh. You should be able to see this now. Yes, good, good, good.

Okay. So what are we saying, we are saying that no matter what happens, what the content that might appear in front of us, whatever life situation might appear in front of us, we are always this awareness, isn’t it? We have always, always been this. And we will always only be this. Irrespective of what happens in our life and irrespective of what happens to our bodies also. Irrespective of what happens through our bodies and even to our bodies, we are always the awareness alone. Thank you, thank you, very good.

So what must you do now to keep this awareness?

Lobode says, “Terrible connection here today. Am not able to follow satsang, only broken sentences.”

Yes, horrible connection here as well. I am using a back up connection because the main connection does not seem to be working.

Amrita says, “Yes, but there can be a preference that our bodies are in good condition however long they last.”

Yes. As long as we feel that…, we take the car example. The instrument that we have been given, if that stays in good condition and it needs to be maintained, then that is fine. As long as that distance is there, and the instrument does not become me. It’s good. Very good.

Atma says, “I also love that my body is functioning good.”

So I am not saying that we must have an aversion to our bodies, I am not saying that an aversion is required; and also that we must not have a desire for something, a strong personal desire related to the body, because in that we are giving rise to the person again. But as an impersonal instrument, it can be well taken care of. And it does not have too many needs actually. We can have a sense of neutrality to all phenomenal things. No desire or aversion, not one way or the other. Let life unfold exactly the way it is meant to unfold.

Atma says, “Yes, just not giving life to the person again, and the body does not have many needs.”

Exactly. So simple needs, yes. It is not the body which is saying more, more, more. It is the mind which says more, more, more. In fact the body reacts if there is too much of something. If there is too much sensory input, or too much of food consumed or too much of anything, the body reacts. It does not have so much capacity for enjoyment.

Yes, Ajnani says, “Life force cares for the body.” Yes.

Atma says, “Sense of neutrality to all phenomenal things.”  Yes. “I love this.”  Yes.

As long as it is completely clear that awareness can never become a person or a body, then all things are allowed to flow on their own. To become personal means that there is a belief that I can become a person and I can become a body. And the most common one, I am a person living inside the body.

Clare says, “Thank you for these beautiful <censored>, it’s like having an internal shower of peace.”

Yes, very good. This peace will be in service to you. So we must now pick up only…, if we pick up the personal perspective, then it must only be as a game. We must always rest in the neutrality. And if the picking up of the person is happening, it happens only in this game, in this maya, in this lila (leela). And that can be allowed to unfold without any preferences, as a complete neutrality to whatever is appearing.

Atma says, “Father you are speaking so simply about all this that I love it. I love it so much. It is easy to accept all when you speak about it.”

Actually for me it always seems like I am speaking the very, very basic things. It’s only in the testimonies later; like sometimes my wife will come and say ‘You know, that it was very abstract, very difficult to understand,. Or somebody else will say after satsang that ‘It was a little not-connecting’ or something. But for me, it always seems like I am speaking the most basic things which seem the most obvious. Now, with all of you understanding, it is getting deeper and deeper and clearer and clearer. You are realizing that all of this is so simple. No one who realizes the truth comes out and says ‘Hey, this was so difficult’. It is pure simplicity itself.

Dee says, “Yes, yes. Imagined it was so hard, but it is so simple.”   Yes, so simple.

And we seem to be referring to the scientists a lot today, but I believe that Einstein said that ‘If you cannot explain it simply, that means that you have not understood it well enough’. What that means is, if you need to rely on a lot fancy words and concepts, and you know, it’s a multi-step program where ‘first understand this, then understand this, and then understand something else, then you understand something else’…. if it becomes more and more complicated, then it is going further and further away from the truth actually. Because in the truth, we are bringing it back to our complete simplicity.

Okay, I’m missing some of the chat. Let’s catch up now where we are.

Wendy says, “Yes, so appreciate the simple, clear and basic way you say it.”  Okay.

Atma says, “Only my mind was complex; not me.”  Yes.

Ustreamer522 says, “Pure simplicity.”

When the mind tries to make knowledge out of these words, when the mind tries to say that ‘I know something now’ that is when…[internet disconnects]

Okay, so it is this kind of a day today, where our internet seems to not want to collaborate with satsang. [Laughs].

Very good. It’s been beautiful nevertheless. So much love to all of you. If there’s a burning question that one of you has, then you can ask it now, and we’ll look at it. Otherwise, let us use the time we have today to be in a little bit of silence.

Dee says, “There was no interest in science until interest in spirituality arose.”  Yes.  “They go hand in hand.”  Yes.

Yes, we’ve been going back and forth.

Jyoti says, “Thank you, Anantaji.”  Thank you, my dear.

So, if there are no burning questions… [Namaste].  Thank you so much for joining us in satsang today. Apologies about the internet.

Moojiji ki Jai!  Love you all so very much, and I’ll see you tomorrow.  [Waves and throws a kiss].

Sangha:  Moojiji ki Jai ! Anantaji ki Jai ! Thank you. Love you.

The question is very simple: ‘Where am I?’

Again, not from the mind, not an intellectual answer, not just another thought. Just look.

Jyoti says, “I’m not in the world.”

Shanti says, “I cannot be seen, so cannot find something somewhere.”  Yes. Very good.

Ustreamer110 says, “Nowhere.”

And Ustreamer94 says, “Nowhere.”

So, what is the meaning of this ‘nowhere’ or to say ‘I am not in this world’? (There are some more answers, we’ll look at them later). So, what is the meaning of saying ‘nowhere’ or ‘not in this world’? Does it mean that you do not exist? Does it mean that you do not exist at all?

Prema says, “Anywhere.”

Atma says, “Here, everywhere.”

Jyoti says, “Here. But I can’t be found. But still I am.”

Ian says, “I don’t know.”

Aradhana says, “In the here and now.”

Jyoti says, “It means I cannot be found in anything perceivable.”

So, what she’s saying is that if it is seen, then it cannot be me in the true sense. It can be arising out of me, but it is not what I am ultimately; because there is a seeing prior to anything that is seen. There is an awareness prior to anything else. So, where is this awareness?

And we’re looking actually at a very common confusion. The common confusion seems very silly when it’s spelled out; but many of us subtly believe this. We subtly believe that this body/mind has become awareness now; that I as a person have become awareness now. So, there’s something interesting, (I won’t say ‘special’), there’s something interesting which is going on spatially here. This will be the ego’s way of keeping some specialness alive. To say ‘Here, here, in this spatial place, there’s something special going on, because now the awakening is here, or the liberation is here’. So, let’s look at this confusion.

The one that has realized himself, where is that one?

Jyoti says, “But I’m definitely here.”

Shanti says, “But can sense that I am, and through this, everything is.”

Prema says, “I exist in a no-place.”

Ustreamer110 says, “Existence is here.”

Ustreamer52 says, “I exist but not as a person; only existence itself.”

Ajnani says, “Here. Nothing and everything.”

Lucien says, “No location, but felt as here.”

Atma says, “Yes. ‘I’ person is no more, but an awareness of all that one is no more.”

Ustreamer110 says, “He is nowhere and everywhere.”

Om says, “The sense I am is accompanied all the time in the waking state. But the witnessing of it is also here.”

Jyoti says, “The one who has realized itself is seen, so is also false.”
Ustreamer52 says, “There is nobody who finds out something.”

There is nobody, yes. The person never existed in the first place.

So, can we define? Many of you have said ‘Here’. And we’ve also said in satsang many times that ‘here’…, ‘Love is here, peace is here, joy is here’ but we never actually looked at what ‘here’ is. What do we mean when we use the term ‘here’? Which ‘here’ is Awareness in? Which ‘here’ is Beingness in? Is it a spatial ‘here’? Can it be defined by space? Can we figure out the coordinates of ‘here’? Does it have a longitude and latitude?

We’re leaving no concept untouched now, because hidden behind some concepts there can still be some delusions or misunderstandings. So we will shine the light on all concepts now; just very playfully, not like an exam. This is not an exam; there are no passing and failing marks. We have often said ‘All is here now. Truth is here now. Awareness is here now. Beingness is here now. Love is here now’. All these statements have been made. So, what is the meaning of ‘here’?

Ajnani says, “Emptiness. No location.”

Prema says, “Here has no limits.”

Ustreamer110 says, “Unspeakably.”

Jyoti says, “Presence means here. Presence-here.”

This ‘here’ is ever-present. The other ‘here’ which is the locational or spatial ‘here-ness’ of the space; space is here only because first I am here. When I am not, time and space both cannot be.

Aradhana says, “Just I am here-ness. Not physical, with no concepts.”  Yes.

Shanti says, “The here is where everything is. Nothing but space without dimension.”  Ajnani says, “No location, just this. Can’t describe or explain this.”

Very good. Do you see that the point of the exercise is to remove any specialness or any concept of specialness from this particular space; the physical space in which the body is? To be clear that the appearance of the body is just another appearance in consciousness itself? I do not appear inside the body; it is the body that appears inside me.

Lucien says, “Here is Awareness, here is myself.”

Ustreamer52 says, “I could not find any definition, means no definition.

Atma says, “I don’t know, can’t explain.”

It is impossible to answer this question in spatial means, because we are prior to space. Is this seen? Is this seen by everyone?

Ustreamer110 says, “Seeing of all as a dream; you and me, space, time.”  Yes. Good.

Ustreamer703 says, “From here, I am seeing in the moment.”

In the moment, there’s an appearance of the sense ‘I am’. But even that is seen. The seeing of even the pure sense ‘I am’ (as Om said earlier). Can we locate a position for that seeing, for this Awareness, for that I that I ultimately am?

Atma says, “True ‘I am’ is prior to space. I can feel it.”

And what we are saying is, that ‘I’ which is prior to even the sense ‘I am’, is it possible to give it a location?

Om says, “No location for ‘I am’ or the knowing of it.”  Great. Very good.

Ustreamer52 says, ‘Feeling of ‘I am’ is also seen.”  Exactly.

Atma says, “Last night, when I went to sleep, I felt that all world is unreal except you, Father. Then I saw also even you are not real. I can’t explain what that was.”

Yes, ‘me’ as a separate entity is as unreal as all other phenomenon. But me-as-Beingness is the same as saying we-as-Beingness, or saying I-as-Beingness. It is the same as saying me-as-Awareness, or we-as-Awareness, or I-as-Awareness; which means that there is only one ‘this-Awareness’ and in a modulation, the modulation of Consciousness from Awareness? Ultimately, all is one. So then it can be said that the seeing itself is me, and the seeing itself is you also; but there is only one.

Ustreamer52 says, “No, it’s not possible.”

Ustreamer110 says, “No location. Not even a Master or anything.”

Ajnani says, “No.”

Atma says, “Yes, we-as-Awareness. That was felt.”  Very good.

So we have said that Awareness and Beingness has no physical location. I am not in this body. Then, why are we so concerned what happens to the life of this body? If I’m not here anyway, I am just the watching which is watching the play of this movie, then how I can be concerned with even the freedom, or lack of freedom, which seems to appear in this body/mind alone? How can I be concerned about the content of the life of this body?

Shanti says, “There is no place to be.”

In fact, all places are inside Being itself. All places are projections of Being itself. So Being is prior to space.

Atma says, “No physical location, true. But still during the day, I have this fear for the existence of body.”

And this will reduce. As the identification is now getting fully dissolved, it will reduce. But do not expect it to reduce to become complete fearlessness. Because even the great Sages and Masters are not walking into the ocean saying that ‘I am one with the ocean’. I’m not jumping off buildings saying ‘I’m one with the street downstairs’. So when this conditioning has been given, then a little bit of this conditioning…, just this much. That’s why Bhavagan [Ramana Maharshi] said that what used to be a rope concept for the ego, used to be a strong rope, it is now a burnt rope. He does not say that there is no rope. He could have easily said that the rope vanishes. No. He says it is now a burnt rope. What that means is it loses all its power but still, in a small amount, this conditioning will continue to remain.

So, don’t let the mind play this upon you, saying that because you had this momentary fear that it says something about your state of freedom or not. We are ever-free. This is not ever anything about our state of freedom. So if there are any concept about you being inside your body somewhere, we must lose them now or expose them in satsang so it can be burnt.