BOOKS BY ANANTA Welcome to Satsang with Ananta

All of these things can be put aside, all doubts can be put aside, for just a couple of minutes; and just encounter this question:

Who am I?

Be open to it for just two minutes, and let’s do this inquiry together:

Who are you really?

Are you to be found in the world outside your eyes?

Are you to be found in the world inside your eyes?

Are you to be found in your thoughts?

Are you to be found in your emotions?

Are you to be found even in the pure sense ‘I am’, which is the first phenomenon, the primary phenomenon, which many refer to as God himself or consciousness itself.

Are you to be found even in this?

And if you are to be found in any of these, can any of you tell me where you are?

Where are you in any of this?

What do you look like?

Who is looking at all this phenomenon?

Who is looking at the computer in front of you?

Who is looking at your body?

Who is looking at your thoughts?

Who is looking at the emotions that arise?

Is that one affected by anything that happens here?

What can happen here that can touch this?

Who is with me so far? Very good, very good.

Now, this one, is this one affected by the content of your life?

Does this one have any problems?

Is this one touched by anything at all that happens in this world?

If it is not, then what is the struggle about?

Who is suffering, who is worried about the relationship, who is worried about money, who is worried about the health of the body?

How did this untouched one become a part of this game?

That is a divine mystery.

What does this one do, what does this one need to do to realise himself?

Where must he go to find himself?

Is there even an instant when it is not that?

Which mountain must you climb to come to this realization?

Which path must you follow, which Guru must you accept to become yourself?

Which course must you sign up for, what breathing exercises must you do, which handstands will get you here? So how does this one get confused about who he is? How must you have become a person, what kind of magic must it have been?

How did we believe the story, the story of being bound, the story of wanting freedom, the story of almost being there, the story of just missing, the story of doubt? You must have enjoyed the story, but we forgot it was a story, isn’t it? The story that ‘You and I are separate’. The story that ‘I have a state which you do not have’. All the stories can be dropped now. Because I see you for what you are; and I see myself there, the pure Self.

[Reading chat messages of Love].

Thank you all so much. Love you all so much as well.

So much love. [Namaste] Ah, love you too, thank you.

Aw, thank you so much, thank you so much, love you all so much.

Therefore who am I without my story?

Once the story has been seen to be false and the person has seen to be false, now what remains?

[Long Silence]

Nothing.

Q: “There’s a strong sense of ‘until’ or ‘in the meantime’ with me. What do I do until I am fully immersed in myself? It’s a sense of incompletion.”

A sense of incompletion. ‘There’s a strong sense of ‘until’ or ‘in the meantime’ with me. What do I do until I am fully immersed in my Self?’

How can you get out of your Self?

Can you perform this trick and show me?

Any of you?

Don’t be the Self.

Show me how you are not the Self.

Don’t be the Awareness.

Stop being aware right now.

Can you stop?

No awareness allowed here.

Can you stop?

Who has been able to stop?

No? Can’t stop being the awareness?

Can I turn it off?

Become completely unaware right now: Turn it off!

Cannot do it. Isn’t it?

Sounds funny. Yes.

So we cannot turn it off.

Now, now: Stop being.

Stop being. Don’t be.

Suppose we are stopping Awareness, now we are stopping being.

Don’t be. Don’t exist.

No existence, no Presence, no Being, no Consciousness.

No? Can anyone do it?

Therefore it is said that what you are is ever-present. It is not just another sentence to make us feel good. It is actually here. Here and now. Truth is here right now. If Truth would come and go then it would not be the Truth. If Self could come and go, then it would not be the Truth.

So if you cannot stop being aware, and you cannot stop being, then what else is there to do?

The true magic, (the true black magic if there was any), the true black magic was if someone to tell me ‘I am unaware and I am not being’. If somebody can perform this trick then that would be something interesting.

What can stop you from being your Self?

Name one point where you have not been your Self.

You cannot stop, that’s the whole game, that’s why it’s funny.

That’s why all of this is a joke.

You do not need to carry anything, you do not need to carry your liberation, you do not need to carry your freedom. Nothing needs to be carried.

If it is real, it cannot leave.

Please remember this.

There is nothing you have to do to get here.

It is already here.

You have to work hard to delude yourself.

You do not have to work hard to find the truth.

How can you get out of your Self?

Can you perform this trick and show me? Any of you?

Don’t be the Self. Show me how you are not the Self.

Don’t be the Awareness. Stop being aware right now.

Can you stop? No awareness allowed here.

Can you stop? Who has been able to stop?

No? Can’t stop being the awareness? Can I turn it off?

Become completely unaware right now, Turn it off.

Cannot do it? Isn’t it? Sounds funny.

Yes. So we cannot turn it off.

Now, stop being. Stop being. Don’t be.

Suppose we are stopping awareness, now we are stopping being: Don’t be. Don’t exist.

No existence, no presence, no being, no consciousness.

No? Can anyone do it?

Therefore it is said that what you are is ever-present.

It is not just another sentence to make us feel good.

It is actually here. Here and now.

Truth is here right now.

If Truth would come and go, then it would not be the truth.

If Self could come and go, then it would not be the Truth.

So if you cannot stop being aware and you cannot stop being, then what else is there to do?

So the true ‘magic’ was if someone were to tell me: ‘I am unaware and I am not being’.

If somebody can perform this trick then that would be something interesting.

What can stop you from being your Self?

Name one point where you have not been your Self.

You cannot stop. That’s the whole game, that’s why it’s funny.

That’s why all of this is a joke.

You do not need to carry anything, you do not need to carry your liberation, you do not need to carry your freedom. Nothing needs to be carried.

If it is real it cannot leave.

Please remember this. There is nothing you have to do to get here. It is already here.

You have to work hard to delude yourself.

You do not have to work hard to find the truth.

Someone is laughing uncontrollably like a child now. Wonderful. Wonderful.

So satsang is like I am a doctor who has all these 32 patients who have no disease but are still complaining about the disease. Then I say ‘Okay take this medicine, try this, or do this inquiry, do this’. But you have nothing wrong with you.

You are the Self.

Yes, you can never lose your Self.

Namaste everyone. A very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai

We had some technical difficulties but it looks like we are settled in now. Let’s hope this works. So for those of you who are here for the first time, you can enter your questions in the chat window, and we can address them.

So before you enter your question, maybe I can address a topic that seems to be very prevalent amongst many seekers, amongst many beings who come to satsang, which is the topic about freedom being a certain ‘state’. So many of us, we expect that if we have reached the state of freedom or enlightenment then it must be a state of complete bliss, of complete joy, of complete happiness. And if there is any movement of that state, if there is a time when that state is not present, we start to question our own awakening or our own realization of what we have found ourselves to be.

But freedom is actually not a state. It is freedom, including freedom from states. So it is freedom from our mind, it is freedom from the events that happen around us, and it is the freedom from our own emotions. So if our freedom was dependent on a particular state, then we would not value that freedom so much. Isn’t it? So we are completely free irrespective of what the state is. Irrespective of the emotions that are coming up, irrespective of the thoughts that are coming up and irrespective of the events which seem to be appearing in front of us.

This is a very common misconception that I have found that many Beings who have had a very clear seeing then get very attached to the state that seems to appear sometimes along the way of this process of freedom. So we must not feel that if there has been a realization, or once there is a realization of who I am that it must be accompanied by this state of being completely blissed out all the time. Because everything that comes must eventually go. There is no appearance which stays forever. Even the appearance of the purse state ‘I am’ or the Atma itself is not present when we are in the deep sleep state. Therefore even if Consciousness itself must come and go, then any other experience which arises within this Consciousness or from this Consciousness cannot be expected to stay forever.

The only thing that stays forever is what is completely real; is what you are. There is awareness even in the deep sleep state; there is awareness in the waking state; there is no state in which there is no awareness. This awareness is the only real substance, to use the word substance, but is the only reality; it is what you are. And all phenomena arise from this awareness itself, and therefore must be made up of awareness itself, isn’t it? So, if awareness is all there is, then what would Consciousness be made of? It must be a different state or different form of Awareness itself.

So Ustreamer has a question. The question is, “Namaste Anantaji. Thank you for these satsangs.”  Very welcome. “Would you please speak to us of Grace?”

Yes. Grace is a word that we use often. Grace can be looked at in a couple of different ways. The one way to look at Grace is that everything that seems to be happening in our life is actually Grace. Because we discussed this yesterday. When we are looking for truth then everything that appears can point us back home and can aid our own inquiry. Therefore everything that happens in our life is Grace.

But, there is also another type of Grace, which is experienced in the Presence of a Satguru. In the Presence of a Satguru in the heart, and also in the physical presence of the Satguru. And this Grace is what I call the undeserved blessing. Of course, everything is a play of Consciousness eventually, and this was meant to happen; but it cannot be denied that in the presence of a Guru there are…, or it does seem to have a strong impact of dissolving the idea of this person and bringing us back to the Oneness that we are. Therefore I say that actually Grace can be spoken of in two ways. One is that everything that happens around us can be looked at as pure Grace because it points us back home, and the second is in the Presence. Like when I met Mooji, and just looking into his eyes the idea of this person that was here completely dissolved. So what else can I call it but pure Grace? So this is how I would look at Grace.

Ustreamer says, “Pranam, Gurudeva. Grace is flowing here.”  Thank you my love, thank you.

We have another question. They say, “I am Rajiv sir. You said that people who give us advice on matters that are personal are themselves in a confused state. That means we should go as per our own knowledge only?”

Actually what I meant was that if we are looking for advice on how to be free from suffering, then we should go to those who have found this freedom for themselves. But if you are looking for advice on practical things, like business matters or other work related things or even personal matters related to family, then we can go to Beings who are more experienced on those. But a lot of times we take advice from people on our spiritual journey, and these people are themselves not free from their own suffering, and that leads to a lot of confusion. I am not saying that they intend…, or these people that give advice are not having good intent. I’m only saying that because they themselves are not free from suffering then how can they give the most valued advice on freedom, our freedom from this suffering? But on practical matters, by all means. If you need financial advice you can go to a financial consultant. I’m not saying you mustn’t do that. I hope that answers your question.

So let’s look at what is here, right here, right now. There seems to be the content of this universe which is appearing. There seems to be a body which is present here. And there seems to be some activities happening inside the body which can be perceived. Isn’t it? There will be some thoughts which come and go. There will be some images, some memories, some imagination which comes and goes. So all of this, all of this can be bundled as the content of Consciousness itself, and we can see that there is a watching or perceiving of all of this content.

Who is watching this?

Who is the watcher?

Is there a watcher of this content?

This is the root question in satsang.

And this is the inquiry which can bring you to complete freedom.

Everything is watched. It cannot happen unless it is watched. Therefore:

Who is the watcher?

What does it look like?

Where is it watching from?

Can we get ourselves just for a couple of minutes just to look at this question?

Many of you I know have heard this before, and it has got you to great freedom. And there are some of you who have heard this before and felt that there has been some lack of success, because there was an expectation that something should happen. But if you can just look at it without an expectation, and say that:

All of this phenomenal content which seems to appear in front of me,

Who is the watcher of it?

Who is the watcher?

Is there a watcher?

What does this watcher look like?

And if anyone would like to share their experience after this contemplation please, please do that. It’s very simple. Don’t believe the mind which might say ‘It’s too abstract, it’s too difficult, that I am just a beginner here’. All this is just resistance that is coming up from the mind; and if you can just ignore it or let it go for just a few moments…

Where are these eyes, where are they seeing from?

Who perceives this body?

Who is perceiving the thoughts when my eyes are closed?

Who is hearing these words?

Does this one come and go? Or is it ever present?

Is there ever a moment where this one that is looking at the entire phenomenal universe is absent for you?

Yes, in deep sleep the phenomenal universe is not there, but the ability to perceive the phenomenal universe is still there. And that is why, when we wake up from deep sleep we can speak about the experience of deep sleep, that ‘I did experience some deep sleep’.

So if you can focus on this contemplation for a couple of minutes and drop everything else, let go of all other thoughts that might be coming to you and just stay in this place of calmness of peace, and find out:

Who is looking?

Who is seeing this state of even peace?

And someone can report from there experience of what they find. Or if they are finding some difficulty, then they can share it in the chat window as well. And in this contemplation the answer to ‘Who am I?’ is present.

So Hereness says, “No glimpse of the person at all.”  Yes. Very beautiful, very beautiful.

So if there is a time like right now that the person is absent, then the person cannot be real. Because the real must be ever present, always here. So when the person is absent, what is here now? And in fact the person is never really present. Because in the present, the ‘person’ is only our imagination. Only in the past and only in the future. What is present right here, right now?

[Reads chat] “It feels as if vast space is present in the hereness. It feels that a vast space is present in the hereness, no glimpse of the person at all.”  Yes, yes.

And even the space, even the space is perceived by you, isn’t it? From within, the space itself perceived. Good.

So AtmanSK says, “Dear Ananta, I have only one question. How and when does this ‘I’ thought come into existence?”

Okay. The I is a chameleon. I says ‘I am this body’ and I says ‘I am pure Awareness’ as well. Therefore when you are referring to I as a thought, it must arise in the waking state after the birth of the ‘I am’ itself. Then this thought arises within Consciousness saying ‘I’. No? And we refer to it as a thought.

When we are referring to I as a pure knowing of myself as Awareness, without even the expression of a thought, without any conceptual understanding, just the pure I which is Awareness itself then we are not referring to I as a thought.

But when we are referring to I as a thought, when it is a thought that is arising like other thoughts within Consciousness itself, after the birth of I am-ness in this world of duality, when thoughts start to appear then this I thought appears. And when this I am-ness is born then this universe takes birth. Because in this world of duality, it needs there to be a me before there can be another in front of me. And everything in this world of duality seems to be in front of me, and related to where I am. So this I am takes birth first within this pure Awareness, and within that Consciousness itself, and all of the thoughts and all other objects which are also the content of this Consciousness itself can appear. I hope that answers your question.

Ustreamer says,  “Presence is present right here, right now.”  Yes, yes.

And Presence is welcome in every moment of the waking state, every moment. And this Presence takes care of everything that needs to happen, because this is the Presence of the Satguru himself, and this is the presence of what we call God himself or Consciousness itself. So in this present moment there is never any problem, never any suffering, because the Presence is here.

Wendy says, “Sense of existing is here even when no person is found.”  Yes.

There is a sense that I exist or I am, and this is present in all states except the deep sleep state. Even in the dream state there is a sense that I am, and the dream happens around this Being, Beingness or I am-ness. Yes. So the sense of Presence or the sense of existing is always present in all states, except the deep sleep state. In the deep sleep state even this pure Presence is not there. And we love the deep sleep state, because we want rest even from the state of Presence. Because our true nature, our real nature, is to be pure Awareness. Pure Awareness with no phenomenon existing.

Adita says, “We see the vast place and we get scared.”  Yes.

Now this is the thought that comes again and says ‘Look, look, look. There is a vast space, it’s too vast, you’ll drown in it, you’ll get lost. You know you must be scared of this.’ You know, this is another thought. Because if you were to really look you will see that even this vast space arises from within you, from within Awareness itself, and you are untouched even in this space. So you must look and tell me where you are in relation to this vast, empty space.

Zoe says, “The eyes don’t see. The heart sees.”  Yes.  “And everything and nothing are the same thing.”  This is very beautiful. This is very beautiful.

And what did we do? We did nothing. We just stopped and we were present and we looked at what is present here now. This is what is freedom. We are looking, we have been looking for many years for something which is present right here and right now. Because like I keep saying, if it is real it must be present every moment. It must be ever present. Then why must we do these hundreds of years of various sadhanas and practices to bring us to where we already are? It is all part of the divine Leela, all part of this play. And I’m not against practice, but there must be a time when we drop everything, everything, and just look at what is real. What is here now? And once we are completely open to this, then freedom is available right here, right now.

But the mind will come in and say ‘Is it really this simple? It cannot be this simple’. It will say ‘Because I have invested so many years in my practices, I have invested so many lifetimes in trying to figure this out, and what you are saying is ‘Drop everything, let everything go and tell me what is here now’. And you will find that complete freedom is present right here and right now. This is what we have been looking for. Amazing, isn’t it? What we have been looking for has always been here. It is just that the looking takes us away from here, takes us away into the future and into many other confusions and delusions. So if it is seen that it is here right now, and there is an awareness of whatever is appearing right here, right now, and there is no distance between me and this awareness, there is no separation between me and this awareness, and therefore ‘I must only be this awareness itself’…, then what can make us suffer now? What problems can we continue to carry?

Louise says, “Ananta, it seems we have believed that freedom means no negativity, feelings, thoughts, etc. It is here right now, when the thought is dropped, and all is accepted.”   Yes. Yes, Louise.

Many of us have believed that freedom means many things. We spoke earlier that many believe that freedom means a state of being completely blissed out, completely blissed out. Others that believe freedom means that ‘I will have some supernatural capabilities and I can manifest this and I can do this’. Others believe that ‘I am in a goody, goody state and only good things will happen and good thoughts appear to me’. That is not true. The mind will not be reformed, the mind will only lose it’s power. The mind will still continue. The quality of the thoughts might continue to be the same but they don’t have the magnetism to them now, and they don’t seem to have the ability to shake us from our reality now.

So what we are, once that is clearly seen and understood and reconfirmed again and again and there is stability in this, then what seems to be a strong force with the ability to pull us out and pull our attention and belief so strongly then loses this ability; and we are staying in the state of pure, pure Awareness itself; where all the other states can just come and go without any expectation, with no regrets about something coming or something not coming. So freedom does not mean that no negativity will arise from the mind, even it does not mean that no negative feelings might arise. It’s just that these thoughts and feelings will not have the ability to shake us or to sway us from the understanding of who we are. That’s why even Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi said that after liberation the rope that seemed to be so strong, ego, the rope that seemed to be so strong now becomes a burn rope. He did not say that there is no rope anymore. He said it becomes a burnt rope. That means that the rope is still there, but it means it is burnt and hence has no power whatsoever. Yes. Does that make it clear? It’s very good.

Louise says “This is being recognized. Much love.”  Much love. Good.

So yes, there are these small misconceptions that remain and can cause a lot of confusion for many Beings; you know, about liberation being the state, about liberation meaning ‘I must now be able to manifest something’. About liberation meaning I don’t need any sleep anymore, about liberation meaning that the body will never get tired. All of this is not true. Because in Consciousness everything can appear as it has to appear, it just loses it’s strength to cause suffering; because there is a recognition of what is real here, and that which is real is untouched by anything that appears in Consciousness. It is actually untouched by the appearance of Consciousness itself. I wonder how many of you will understand this? It is untouched by the appearance of Consciousness. Consciousness appears and goes away, but this, this reality is completely untouched. Therefore this game, including the game of satsang, can continue to go on in Consciousness but our reality is never touched. We have never suffered in reality. ‘I’ is only that in this game. Consciousness itself seems to get deluded and starts believing it is a person, and it is playing a game of becoming a person, and then coming back home to pure Consciousness, and eventually to the understanding of pure Awareness itself.

Ustreamer says, “Fears have gone since the time of awakening. Joy fills up the spaces that fear occupied formerly, since Awareness has come back home to the Self.”

Yes. What you mean is that attention came back home to the Self, or that attention which was getting attached to objects in Consciousness now has come back home and is resting in pure Awareness itself. And what you will see is that Awareness itself never left anywhere or cannot leave. Everything is within Awareness itself. So where can Awareness itself go? Therefore when you say that ‘since awareness has come back home to the Self’ you must look at what is the Self if it is not Awareness itself?

“Yes,” he says or she says, “Yes, attention has come back home to Awareness or home. Thank you for the pointing.”   Very welcome.

And we must not believe that attention must only be this Awareness for us to be free. Because attention can be free, it can look at the computer in front of you, it can look at other objects, but we must not believe that we get affected. We must not believe that what is happening in the content of where attention is going is ‘us’ in any way. You know? We must look at the one who believed that this content is affecting me, and we must see that this ‘me’ was never around. It was just imagined.

So freedom does not mean a ‘state’ also where awareness or attention. Attention actually is completely just resting here in the state of quietness. No attention is also free. Attention has freedom to go jump around here and there, but we don’t attach to the content of what it is bringing to us; and hence that is freedom.

For suffering to arise there must be two steps in the process. The most common way for suffering to arise, or in fact the only way for suffering to arise, is that a thought comes and our attention goes to it first that ‘I should not be doing this’ or ‘He should not have done this to me’. A thought can be like this, and our attention goes to it first. And just by our attention it will not have the ability to make us suffer.

We must also use another power which seems to be born along with Consciousness, the power of belief. And then when we give it this belief that ‘Yes, he should not have done this to me’ then with this belief it becomes something which can make us suffer. Because it is a resistance to what is actually happening, or what is appearing here. If there is a resistance o whatever is appearing, there will be suffering. If there is no resistance, everything will be allowed to just come and go, and there cannot be suffering. There can be pain. I am not saying that pain will go away. But there will not be suffering.

So let’s come back, let’s come back to this moment in time, completely in this moment in time. If a thought is coming which is distracting us then we can just let it go. And if it is very juicy, if it is very strong and seems to become a strong obstacle for you, then you can expose it in satsang. To expose it deprives it of it’s power over you. So if there is something that you find you have not been able to let go of and it seems to get a lot of belief from you very quickly, then feel free to expose it.

Louise says, “Yes it is this ‘I’ which is only another thought that gets attached.”

Yes.  ‘There was no distance, there was no distance not too long ago from this ‘I’ but now it is being seen. Yay!”   Very good. Very good. Very happy, Louise, very happy.

Ustreamer says, “So beautiful, thank you.”  Thank you.

So we must look at:

Which thought now has the ability to make us suffer?

Who is this thought talking to?

Who is getting attacked by this thought?

Or who is defending this thought?

Is this, the one who is getting attacked, is this one real?

What does it look like?

Where does he stay?

Or is it just a pure figment of imagination itself?

Have I ever been this person, that I always thought I was?

It was just a thought, as Louise said.

Can one of you tell me one thing, one attribute of this person that is completely real?

Can we find out one attribute of this person which we know is completely real? Anything?

There is nothing that we can ever say was completely real about this ‘person’. Then it’s such a joke, isn’t it, that we spend our whole lives catering to this idea of a person but there is no reality in it whatsoever. Just a set of concepts.

Wendy says, “Hardest to get free of is pain, is suffering. Mind says: ‘What’s the use of freedom when ego still acts out on its own?”

Yes, let’s look at this closely. She says ‘Hardest to get free of is pain, is suffering.’ There is a big difference between pain and suffering. Pain is something which arises in the body, and does not lead to suffering without our interpretation of this pain. So there could be an interpretation which says ‘Why does this always happen to me? Why is it happening to me?’ You know, it can be ‘When will this pain go away? I am tired of this pain, it seems to keep coming and coming’…, that ‘This must mean that I am not free’. All of these thoughts will come. And we suffer only as a result of these thoughts. Otherwise pain is just another energetic experience. Without our belief in the interpretation of the mind about it, an energetic experience arises and it goes. I’m not saying it has to be a pleasant energetic experience. I’m just saying it is just another energetic experience. But when we label it and we believe the label, that is when the suffering starts. Otherwise like small children, when the pain comes, they cry; and when the pain goes, they laugh. They don’t carry any suffering around it. So there is a huge difference around the arising of pain and the suffering that we experience.

So then she says ‘Mind says what’s the use of freedom when the ego still acts out on it’s own?’ Everything can appear and it can disappear. How are you touched by it? To know you are untouched…, and Awareness is not doing any of this, not in the way you are saying that it is Awareness. First is the birth of Consciousness, and within this Consciousness all the events are playing out, and none of these events can touch pure Awareness. Therefore if the ego is playing out or acting up, which actually it cannot once you realize you are the Awareness itself because it is not given any belief; but even if it seems to be, then we must say: Who is this affecting? Who is suffering from this acting out of the ego? Is the ego suffering because of it?

Ustreamer says, “Not one; everything comes and goes.”  Yes, yes.

Everything comes and goes from within this one Consciousness itself, or is a play of this one Consciousness itself.

Kiran says, “’It seems there is a physicality that seems real.”   Yes.

‘This seems real’ is true. It only ‘seems’ real. There is a ‘seeming’ reality to it. So it ‘seems’ real, the physicality ‘seems’ real in this waking state; and it ‘seems’ real in the dream state where we have another body, and that body also ‘seems’ as real as this body ‘seems’. But even if the physicality was completely real, and I was the body itself, then we would not suffer as much as we do as a person; because then I would suffer purely from the physical needs and the physical pains of the body. So if there was hunger, I would feel that hunger and I would find myself something to eat. If there was pain, I would find a solution for that pain. But what really we suffer from is more of the psychological issues around this idea of being a person; around things like, the people around us, the relationships, the amount of money that we have, the way the content of our life seems to be going. If these are all concerns of this psychological person, they are not concerns of this body. Isn’t it?

So even if we cannot understand or we cannot see that ‘I cannot be this body’. And if you were to completely believe that ‘I am only this body’ then we will not suffer as much as we do by our belief in this person-hood. And then when there is a conviction that ‘I must be this body’ then I might ask you a question; and that question will be: Who believes that I am a body? Is it the body itself that is believing this?

But that’s okay, that’s okay. You can explore the reality of this physicality for some time. So believe that ‘I am just this body, I am just this body’ and then all the same things that you suffered from in the past would not be relevant if you were just this body. Because the body does not have too much need. It does not require too much from us. It is this imagined person which creates all this nonsense. It creates all this, ideas and suffering.

So coming back to what Wendy said, freedom therefore must be that everything is allowed to act out the way it must act out, but we are untouched. We are unaffected. And this comes straight from the heart. It is not just another Advaita excuse. You know many beings who have a purely intellectual understanding will use it as an Advaita excuse to say that ‘I did this, but I am not the doer anyway, so therefore I didn’t do this. This is all God’s doing’. But you can sense that it is coming from the mind still. It is just the mind’s intellectual understanding. But once we see all of this is just a play, it is Consciousness playing with himself, then I am just the pure watching of all of this. Then, this is freedom.

Kiran says, “I see that a lot of suffering is from the psychological entity believed in.”

I would say that all of it. All of suffering is from the psychological entity believed in. This non-existent entity seems to get us to this point of confusion about who we are and, in this confusion it leads to a lot of suffering. Therefore the point, Kiran, is who is it? Who is it that gave attention to this psychological entity and believed the thoughts which were arising which reinforced this entity? Very good.

And Wendy says, “Thanks. I am allowing all shadows to be exposed.”  Very great, very great.  “Yes, all comes and goes. Yes, Awareness is. Person can’t be found. I am not suffering, as it’s pure body sensation. Psychological is not real. Yet, still paradoxes.”

Yes, yes. And this will not seem to be paradox. Not for long. It’ll be so clear, that there is pain here but there is no suffering because of it. And you will realize that just the pure energy of pain, it is not as bad as the mind makes it out to be. Like Mooji also takes this example of nervousness or anxiety versus excitement. Energetically the two of them are not very different. It’s like, when you have to speak on stage somewhere, there could be a lot of nervousness and you say ‘Oh, I’m getting so nervous’. This is stage fright, so we label it and that label causes suffering. But if you are excited about going on holiday or   travel somewhere, it’s a similar sort of energy; but the mind says ‘Oh, I’m so excited about going on this holiday’ and therefore does not suffer as a result of this label.

Wendy says, [‘Still paradoxes’], “Like when you say ‘still the ego is there’ yet you also say ‘you are already free’. So hard to say ‘I am free’ or to say ‘I am the ego’.”

You are already free. It is always true. And when I say ‘still the ego is there’ means that the ego still seems to be exerting some power, or you seem to be giving it some belief. The ego, in reality, is never there, and you are always free. But when someone comes and says ‘I am suffering’ I can only say it is because of the belief that we are giving to our thoughts. Because in that suffering state, if I were to just say ‘You are free, you are free, you are free’ it will not, it will not be accepted and it will not go straight to the heart. Therefore I must give you a prescription first, which is to let go of your thoughts, let go of your thoughts. And once these thoughts are let go of, it’ll be your own realization that you are completely free.

Kiran says, “This who believes entity is also another thought.”   Yes. Very good.

Rajiv, lots of love.

So we have only a couple of minutes left. Does anyone have a strong freedom question? Otherwise we can just sit in silence for a couple of minutes.

Louise says,  “Doubt. This seems to be the hardest to separate from.”

Doubt. And what would the doubt be? ‘Can it be as simple as this? Is this for real?’ All these doubts come. And as you marinate more and more in this satsang, Louise, you will see that these thoughts will also be very easy to let go of. They will just vanish. In a couple of weeks you will laugh at these doubts. They seem to have some pull for now, and that’s okay. Just let go of all of them and you will see that they will lost their power without you nourishing them with your attention and belief. And soon what seems to be so strong, this pull which is so strong, you will remove the nourishment from it, you stop watering it. Then it will lose it’s power and all these doubts will be laughable. You will just laugh at them.

Ustreamer says, “Is faith the antidote for doubt? Can faith be cultivated in someone who tends to doubt everything?”

So there are some who are born naturally with faith, who have this faith, and in the presence of a Guru they can feel ‘I am well taken care of now’. So the surrender comes easily and the faith comes easily. And for some when they see that ‘Once I just did a little

of what was told to me by the Master in satsang, and by just that simple letting go, my life seems to be much happier. It seems to be much more peaceful’ then with this experiencing for themselves then faith also becomes stronger; and that is the way to cultivate faith. If there is a little openness to follow what is being said here…, a lot of the work is happening actually by itself in the Presence of satsang…, but if there is a little bit of openness also to look at the words which are being said in satsang and act upon them, then you will see that life is so much better. Life is so much better, and this leads to more and more faith and creates more openness.

Zoe says, “The things that I stop watering have no power in the waking state, yet come to me in my dream state.”  Yes, yes, yes.

That is an experience that many are having in the sangha now, where some fears, some things which have been held for many years have no belief in the waking state now, and seem to be expressing themselves in the dream state. But even this is auspicious. Let them get released in this way in the dream state. Let them come and let them go. Don’t worry. I know that in the dream state there is not even this Zoe there to be able to let go, there seems to be another entity which is there; but something is hearing this deeper than even where the dream state arises from. So it is hearing that. And, just don’t worry about what comes and goes in the dream state. There is a beloved one who said’ I am free now in the waking state, and I am. Can you free me in the dream state as well? And I said ‘Waking state is good enough for now. Waking state is good enough for now’.

Louise says, “Yes. I believe that. And I feel that very deeply. No matter how it seems at times.”   Very good.

Ustreamer says, “Thank you and pranam, Anantaji.”  Thank you, thank you.

Thank you, Wendy.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you all so much for joining us today.

So much Love to all of you.

[Namaste].  Moojiji ki Jai

[Sangha]: Moojiji ki Jai  Anantaji ki Jai  Thank you.

Namaste everyone. A very warm welcome to satsang today. Moojiji ki Jai

To ask questions you can ask questions in the chat window. So if anybody has any questions, you can enter them in the chat window. Thank you all so much for joining us today.

So in the past few satsangs we have looked at what makes up this person. This idea of a person or the idea that ‘I am a person’ is a collection of beliefs that we have picked up over the years, which is also called conditioning. And this collection of ideas that we have picked up over the years, we have heard from our parents to begin with; and then some thoughts came to us and we believed them to be our thoughts, and all of these thoughts became our core beliefs, and a person was born. But we have not really looked at the dissolution of this person.

So many have asked this question in satsang as to ‘What is the purpose, what is the purpose of this universe?’ Or ‘What is the purpose of the world?’ And even this question has to be eventually looked at from the perspective of where it is coming from.

So if you look at the perspective of where the question is coming from, if it is coming from a very personal perspective then we can clearly see that the purpose of the world is to make us fail at the idea of peace or happiness that we have. It might sound a little strong, but the fact is that no person has been able to achieve the happiness or peace that he has desired from a personal perspective. So when he fails at becoming successful at this from a personal perspective, then he becomes a seeker of what is called the Truth.

So then he is now seeking ‘What is really going on here? And if I cannot get happiness and peace through the conventional way, by trying out various things from a personal perspective, then what must be the way to peace and happiness?’ So it can be said in some way, that hence this ‘person’ now becomes ‘the seeker of Truth’.

So the person is still there but he changes identity in some sense and he now starts identifying with [being] a seeker of Truth. So what used to be the cause…, the world or the universe used to be the cause for him to suffer, now as the seeker everything that comes up can be used to point towards your own truth. Isn’t it? So that can be said to be a seeker. Where a true seeker looks at everything that emerges around him, and uses that as momentum to go deeper within himself and to discover what he really is. And once that introspection and that inquiry seems to happen then it is clear that this person or seeker never existed anyway. No, it was just pure imagination. So what is then left? What is then left is the pure Self which is enjoying the play of Consciousness which emerges for him. So it becomes like, what used to be the cause of suffering now becomes a sort of an entertainment for us. Isn’t it?

This idea came to me today. I got a small injury in my hand. I felt that, this interesting thing came. It said that the world becomes, from dettol it becomes savlon. I don’t know at all if you have experienced these two things but dettol has a lot more sting but savlon doesn’t have any sting. So the world which used to have a lot of sting earlier, now becomes stingless. It does not hurt anymore. Isn’t it?

So from a persons perspective there’s always confusion, there’s delusion, there’s guilt, there’s remorse. You know, all of these negative feelings can emerge and we are identified with them. And hence we feel that ‘As a person I am undergoing this life. It seems to be very tough’. And then once we realize ‘Hey, I am not able to find the peace, I am not able to find the happiness irrespective of what my positions are now, and irrespective of what my relationships are now’ then we start seeking for a deeper truth and trying to find a peace which is unshakeable. And that is when people come to satsang.

So the seeker of truth comes to satsang, and in satsang he realizes that there was no person here; not even the seeker personality. And in that complete realization, whatever might happen in the world around us, we are now unshakeable or unaffected by the content of our perception. And in the fire of satsang, in this conversation even online, many of you will be having this experience that what seemed to be so important just ten minutes ago, and ‘Something that I was grappling with as if it was controlling my entire life’… now, in that fire of satsang, it seems to have lost it’s relevance. Because what is being pointed towards is your own true Self for which all of this is just an appearance. It has no power.

Are some of you seeing this? You can type it out in the chat window.

So the same world, the content of the world which used to reinforce my idea of being a person, then for the seeker it becomes a world where everything can be looked at to point toward our own true Self. And the same thoughts which used to reinforce the idea of personhood can now be looked at to say ‘Who are these thoughts speaking to? Who is listening to these thoughts? Who are they appearing for?’ And in this inquiry we see that there is no person. So the same content of appearance, the same content of Consciousness seems to perpetuate the delusion, and then seems to point away from freeing ourselves of this delusion. Therefore the purpose of satsang is to dissolve this concept of personhood. As simple as that.

So people can come to satsang, but a true satsang is where ‘people’ don’t leave. So, today’s satsang will be a true satsang if there were people that came into the satsang but it is only Beingness or Oneness that actually leaves. And if there is something which seems to be an obstacle for us, you can ask the question in the chat window and we can address that here together.

Yes, Bruce, satsang is not really only in the words which are spoken. Satsang is actually marinating in the Presence of what is present here, marinating in the presence of Being, marinating in the presence of Truth, and this holy fire; to marinate in this holy fire. Then the ego cannot survive. Many times, even if things are not said, just to be in the Presence of satsang is enough for the ego to dissolve.

Yes, there seems to be a question in the social stream.

Anup says, “How do we stay in Beingness while dealing with the personas?”

Or “How do we stay in surrender?” is what he asks earlier.

Thank you, Anup, for this question.

First if we want to stay somewhere, we must first look at ‘What is it that takes us away?’ Isn’t it? What takes us away? So, it is good that you say ‘How do we stay in this Beingness?’ It is good that you did not say ‘How to get to this Beingness’. So there is already an understanding that ‘Beingness is already present, but I seem to go away from this Beingness and get attached to objects of personality’.

So the way we do this, we play this trick of God himself becoming a person by giving our attention and then our belief to our thoughts which arise. It’s not even a one-step process, it’s actually a two step process. Because if you were to just give your attention to your thoughts, just by this attention they would not have the ability to convince us about anything or to make us suffer. But what makes us suffer is when we give them our belief. So for us to give them our belief, first there must be an attention that goes to these thoughts, and then there must be a belief ‘Hey, this is my thought and this is real for me’. And hence this individual person is born, which says ‘I am feeling this or I am saying this or this is what is happening to me’.

Without this two step process of attention and then belief we are automatically in the natural state of our own Beingness. So actually it is just as simple as letting go. So surrender actually means to let go. To let go of what appears is the simplest way to surrender. Because in our natural state we are already in the Beingness. We are not in spirituality or in satsang trying to create anything new, but only to look at what deludes us. What confuses us to start believing that ‘I am this individual entity’. Now if we do not give this attention and belief to our thoughts, you can tell me what takes you away from your own Beingness?

And if you can type, Anup, in the chat window then that will be easier than to switch back and forth between the social stream and the chat.

David, I see your question, I’m just waiting to see if Anup would like to add anything to what he asked earlier. If he does not, then we will get to your question. Ok so let’s get to David’s question.

David says, “Hi, Ananta. I have a question. In doing the inquiry, I experience a very strong snapping back into small-self that seems to happen instantly and without any gap to see it.”

Hmmm, yes. It does seem to happen initially that it seems to happen so quickly that we feel that it happens without our permission or without …, in this process. But as we get deeper in this marinating and deeper into attending satsang, we will see that, very subtly, it is still our own attention and belief that gives the small-self, as you have called it, the power. Because something that is imaginary cannot have power of it’s own. It only gets power from our own attention and belief.

So because Consciousness itself gives it this belief and attention, it now seems to become real. But the fact is you will suffer as a result of this belief that ‘I am this person’ and this suffering is actually only pure grace which asks us to question this identity which we have taken for ourselves and point us back to what our true Self is. So it cannot be that something comes and takes you away without your belief and attention. And the easiest, the quickest way is to just let go of every thought that comes. Every thought that comes can be let go of.

And to let go of a thought does not mean we have to try and stop thoughts from coming; it does not mean we have to get in to some sort of a fight with the mind. Because to get into a fight with the mind would also be to give it some reality. Let go just means to not engage. To let it come and let it go and, as one very wise zen master said ‘To let it come and let it go, and never serve it tea’. So it can come and it can go, but I am not going to give my attention and belief to it. And then the snapping will become very rare and it will happen only momentarily, and it will have no power whatsoever over you. David does that help you?

Okay, we’ll wait for you to type, and then well go to Anup.

Anup says, “I get carried away in the workplace being in the context of relative; as I look at people like colleagues, job roles and not as the pure Being.”

Yes, yes. All of these are interpretations of the mind which you are now believing. If you were not to believe in these thoughts then you would not look at them. Nobody is saying that you have to look at everyone that comes in front of you and say ‘Hey, this is pure Being, this is pure Being, this is pure Being’. You will only realize that all of this is emerging from the Being which is here, which is ever present, and in that Oneness you are realizing that the entire universe…, not individually the people that are arising in front of you but the entire universe…, gives birth here. Then you will not have to do this hard work of trying to convince yourself that ‘The people around me are pure Being’. You stay in your pure Being and let go of your mind; and then it will be completely clear that all of this, what is emerging is only You. And then you will know that everything is the pure Being, the pure manifestation of this pure Being.

Okay, Ustreamer177813, we’ll get to your question. Let’s finish with David first.

So David says, “In Rishikesh an awareness rose that the snapping was a conscious choice. The thought arose ‘I do not deserve to be free’. I had forgotten about it.”

Yes. While we feel that there is a person here who can let go, best thing to do is to let go. Once this person is let go of, you realize that even this letting go was pure grace itself. But, like Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi said ‘While we feel that there is a doer or a person that exists, it is good to exert all possible effort to realize our true Self’. And once we realize our true Self, we will realize that even this effort, or even this path we are walking, this path to self discovery was grace itself that was doing it; because there was never a person here anyway.

So if this is clear in the heart that ‘I am not a person’ then all effort can be dropped simply. But not as a denial. Many new Advaita-ins today are using this just as denial to say ‘There is no person here anyway’ and going along with their lives suffering every day. But refusing to actually see it is only a concept. They have replaced one concept that ‘I am this person’ with another concept that ‘I am not this person’ while continuing to live the life of only this person. So if it is purely an intellectual exercise, then suffering will continue. But if we see, really in our heart, that it was just an imagination, this person was just an idea, then if it is so simply understood, then at that point effort can be dropped as well. The seeking can be dropped as well.

So we must not drop the seeking prematurely. We will know in our heart, we will know clearly. ‘Am I free or not from this?’ And once there is freedom, then there is no effort. Everything just appears and disappears. Even the effort might just appear and disappear; but if it is just coming from an intellectual perspective then we must continue to make the effort to let go. And the irony in all of this is that letting go is not really an effort; it is picking up which is the effort. So when we give our belief to our thoughts that is the actual effort.

Letting go is a natural effortless state. But initially because there is so much habit into picking up, it seems like dropping is the effort. And if it is feeling like an effort, we can continue to do it until we realize that this is a completely natural state. And this is our completely timeless state. I have always been here. So, if you let go of every thought that comes then what can make us suffer now?

So let’s get to Ustreamer877813. He says, “Sir, I feel some fullness in the heart region; not the heart organ, the heart region. I am not able to ask question. My spelling might be wrong.”

So I would say to you that this is your chance for complete freedom. Don’t worry about spellings right now. Just say what you have to and hopefully there will be an understanding of what you are saying. And don’t worry about how it sounds and whether it sounds wrong or whether the spelling is not right. Just let go of these concepts and ask what you must ask.

And David says, “Nothing.”

Nothing can make him suffer now. Then if nothing can make us suffer, then everything becomes a very, very simple existence. It becomes a happy dream. It emerges when we wake up, it disappears when we go to sleep. And there is nothing but joy and peace that arises. Because we lose the ability to suffer. And this ability only comes with our belief in our mind. So that seems to be the theme for today’s satsang. Isn’t it? It is our attention and our belief in this mind, which most of the world never questions, which is making everyone suffer. And once this attention and belief is withdrawn then everything becomes so simple, and unfolds on it’s own. Your true nature will unfold on it’s own. Because that is what is real.

Okay, I have another question on the social stream. If everybody who is on the social stream is hearing this, could you please type the questions in the chat window so that we don’t have to switch back and forth? Okay.

So Alicia says, “Hi Ananta. Is it okay to experience strong aversions to activities previously enjoyed?”

No. What is an aversion? An aversion is opposite of a desire, isn’t it? But for both to be present, there must be some thought which is getting believed in. So earlier what used to be something like ‘I want to go to a party’ and this thought became a desire; after we give it belief then another thought is now saying ‘I do not want to go to a party’ and it becomes believed in. It is actually another desire. But we call it an aversion because of the negative way in which it sounds. Isn’t it? So it is best to be in the neutral state, in the neutral state, and let life unfold in the way it has to.

Yes, if you are referring to the fact that there doesn’t seem to be life energy here to do certain activities which seemed so good in the past and seemed so much fun in the past, then that is okay. No? Because maybe the way it needs to unfold for you is not to do this which you used to enjoy in the past. But if it is again coming from the mind, then we can let go of even this thought. But if it is naturally…, if you find you wake up and ‘I don’t feel to do this in the heart’…, if from here it does not feel like there is an energy present here to move in that direction, then it is absolutely fine not to go after those things which seemed so enjoyable earlier.

Okay, so you say, “In my case it was my yoga class where I felt disturbed rather than relaxed.”

Yes, if it disturbs you then there is no reason to do it. If it disturbs you then there is no reason to do it. But even in this there is an opportunity. Like we were speaking about it earlier. Everything that the world shows up for us now can be used as an opportunity to introspect, to look at ‘Why am I getting disturbed?’ So right now, if you feel that going into the yoga class seems to be very disturbing, then there is absolutely no reason to do it. But look at what really got disturbed. What is it that got disturbed? Was there some strands of identity still left which seemed to get attacked or affected by just going to a yoga class, which actually is meant to be relaxing, isn’t it?

So Bruce says, “Sitting here in silence, there was just a recognition that there was only your voice and no me listening.”  Very good.  “Just the sound. Then of course as soon as the thought arose, the ‘me’ was back.”

That is not true. Because the thought will arise. There is no Being whom I have met for whom no thought arises. The thought will arise and the thought will go, but it is our attention to them and our belief in them which makes them affect us. So do not feel that now thoughts should stop coming; another Advaita trap. It is a trap for beginners where people believe that ‘Because I am free now, now thought should stop’. And then, as it has to, a thought will come; that is the nature. It will come, and when it comes we start believing ‘This must mean that I am not awake now’. No? Can you see the trap? Everything is allowed to come and allowed to go. Just by the appearance of your thought does not mean that personhood comes back. You have to give it your identity and first believe that ‘This is of relevance to me or this is my thought’. When everything just comes and goes, you are the pure witnessing of it. It does not touch you.

Anup says, “Is it okay to have intentions and goals in the free state?”

In the free state, whose intentions and whose goals would they be? Life will unfold in it’s own most beautiful way. But it does not have to conform to your minds ideas of how it has to unfold. So when you say ‘intention and goal’ it only means that ‘It is an idea I have about where my life should go’ and that also comes from only the ego. Because it relies on the belief that ‘Unless I plan or unless I have an intention or a goal for my life, God will make a big hash of my life. And He does not know how to run my life’. Isn’t it? So there is still a person there who is trying to plan out his life. And if there is still a person there who is trying to plan his life, then it is not the free state anyway. So the question itself is a paradox. If you say ‘Is it okay to have intentions and goals in the free state?’ you see that in the free state there is no personal intentions and goals. Everything is just seen to be unfolding.

Thank you, Bruce.

Ustreamer says, “Bruce asked my question. It is so wonderful. Thank you, Sir. Thank you.”

This often happens in satsang, no? That the truest question doesn’t have to appear from this mouth, it can appear from anywhere. And so secrets…, who was Alicia, no, who was Anup, says that he loves us. Thank you. I am so happy that we are able to do this; so beautiful to have this interaction with all of you.

If there is a true question emerging for any of you, that you feel is truly an obstacle, you feel that this stops you from your freedom, this is your chance to ask

Debra says, “I love you, Anantaji.”   I love you too, Debra.

Thank you, Bruce. Bruce says, “It has been my dream to be here with you. Thank you.”

Thank you so much. Thank you for being here.

Anup says, “Can feel ananda [bliss] streaming from you.”

It’s your own ananda [joy, bliss] from your heart which you are now experiencing. Very beautiful, thank you.

Ruby says, “Hello, Ananta. A few moments ago I was looking for a job on google and the next moment I am here typing to you. No question for you just now. Just wanted to share.”

[Laughs]. Yes. I am so happy you could make it here, Ruby. So happy you are here.

Malika says, “I feel so much when others discover the Truth. I feel so much joy when others discover the Truth. Is this ego?”

No, this is not ego. This is because you are One, there is only One. You have this. It is also the same way that when somebody has an accident on the road we end up feeling their pain, isn’t it? Even their pain as a bystander. It’s because there is this Oneness. We are connected in this beautiful way, and hence when others are discovering the truth for themselves as well, the joy can emerge here, because we are actually discovering the truth for our Self in this way.

Ruby says, “Grace is truly running this life, isn’t it?”  Oh, completely, completely. There is only grace.

All of you must remember also that ‘almost there’ is a thought. So if you are there believing ‘I am almost there’ even this thought must be let go of. Because the one who is almost there is not you. The one who is almost there, as Mooji says, is ‘also the same guy’. So this guy must be let go of.

Ruby says, “I did not even know the satsang was here and that I could talk to you like this.”   So wonderful you could join us. So wonderful.

So who is here who believes ‘I am almost there’? Could you please expose this feeling in the chat window. Because to expose it is to hand it over.

Anup says, “This heals completely.”  There is nothing with greater power to heal the delusion than satsang.

David you just said, “Are my message appearing?” There is nothing that appeared before this that I haven’t read out.

Bruce says, “Sometimes this thought arises, then I quickly feel I know nothing.”

Ah, yes, yes, yes. So, is this a problem that ‘I know nothing’…, or is it clear that I know nothing; that the mental understanding is not of any use to me now? So if it is coming from that place that ‘This mental understanding also can be dropped now completely, and I know nothing’ then it is the most beautiful place. And we don’t need to fight that

Ruby says, “For a long time, yes. But it is becoming really clear that it is the same guy.” Yes.

Jyoti says, “It seems that thoughts can be very subtle, even like a feeling sometimes.” Yes.  “Like going through a thorny forest; after the thorns, there are still some light bushes with lots of light coming through.”  Yes.  “And such a joy to see these subtle beliefs as only beliefs.”  Yes.

Yes, Jyoti, this does happen, that what seemed so strong, so strong just a few weeks ago, can now seem to be just very light. What used to be a big wrestler…, I keep saying this somehow…, what used to be a big wrestler is now only an irritating insect. It loses all it’s power. Like Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] used to say ‘What used to feel like a rope is now only a burnt rope’. It has no power.

And Bruce says, “But what is there to know? And who is there to know it?”

Yes, yes. Like I said, there is no one here as a person who can know that, know about any concept, which is a mental or intellectual understanding. But to know your true nature is even deeper than intuitive knowing. It is a knowing that I am this awareness itself. Such an unshakeable knowing. This is a knowing which we are referring to as a true knowing, or the Truth itself. No? When it is expressed in words or verbal concepts, then obviously it is not the truth anymore, but there is a deeper understanding of who I am. That is the knowing which I am referring to.

David says, “I could say it was disturbing to risk asking you a question, but it was beneficial.”

Mooji always says ‘Ask the risky question’. Isn’t it? I am very happy you asked. Very happy, very happy. The ego was afraid of rejection, yes. Yes, yes. That’s the game no? It is afraid of rejection from the one who is only capable of love. The guru that speaks from here is only capable of love. But it is scared that it is going to get crushed and it is going to get found out.

And you say, “So what disturbance should be avoided and what should be faced?”

The disturbance that should be avoided is the disturbance of our belief in our thoughts. And once this is avoided or let go of…, not avoided actually; I would not use that term because there is a sense of running away from it, in that term ‘avoided’. But more just let go of. With our letting go of it, it does not have any power. And hence once all of this mental stuff is let go of, and emotional stuff which is let go of…, it is seen to be just emotional stuff…, then life will unfold automatically in the most beautiful way. So in the content of what is appearing in front, we don’t necessarily need to avoid something or make a decision to avoid something. It is only if we find that, at a very practical level, if we feel that by going there ‘I always end up more disturbed than I was earlier’ then I say ‘Okay, then don’t go there for a while’. First discover the truth about yourself, first come to satsang and find out who you are, and then you are free to go wherever you like.

Thank you Bruce.

Anup says, “Can we keep doing satsang forever?”  Yes. Forever in satsang. Life is satsang.

So if we are at that point where, from our heart, we are only desiring the truth, then everything that appears in life for us will perpetuate the truth, or will perpetuate our seeing of what is real. So it is a multi-purpose universe in some way. As a person when we try to make our personal life better, in spite of the fact that we always know that the person has to die, we try to create something which will give us happiness and peace forever as a person. So, this is a failing proposition. So as a person the universe is full of this confusion and suffering. As a seeker of truth, the universe is a complete opportunity in every moment to see what the truth is. And as the Self it is just pure entertainment which is arising. Pure joy, pure peace.

Thank you David.

So somebody asks on the social stream, I am having difficulty pronouncing your name, but you asked, “I find that you are here live by chance. Do you have these satsangs regularly?”

Yes, yes we do. We have satsangs on all weekdays, and then in-person satsangs we have on Saturdays sometimes. If you go to anantasatsang.org you will find the schedule over there. It is anantasatsang.org and you will find the schedule over there.

Wendy says, “Almost there now feels like delusion. Will I ever be free? ‘No person’ became just an idea. Here amongst physical pain and mothers suffering. So immediate and constant. No time to dis-identify. Observing from Awareness.”

Wendy, it is beautiful to have you with us again. We missed you. You are right. All these strong events that appear in front of us seem to pull us back to this personhood. But immediately when we question ‘Who am I?’ then this personhood cannot last. No? It cannot last. Freedom is available even in the most strong situations which seem to happen around us.

Looks like we have only a couple of minutes left today, so we can all sit in silence for a while.

Yes, Wendy. You said, ‘When ask ‘Who am I?’ nothing comes up.”

It’s true, because the mind doesn’t have an answer for you now. It has tried convincing you with false answers for a long time, and now it has just given up trying to answer this question for you. But the awareness, what you are, sees this ‘nothing is coming up’ or ‘nothing actually comes up’. Isn’t it? So, you must be that which sees even the appearance and disappearance of what the mind is saying.

Ustreamer says, “Thank you for the space and the peace just to be with you. Much Love.”

Much love to you too. Thank you so much. Thank you. “From Zoe.”  Welcome. Thank you, Zoe.

Wendy says “Why doesn’t it feel free? Can I be aware that I am not that, but not feel free at all?”

No. For there to be a bondage, there must be a belief in a thought. And even this, that there is a feeling which can convince me that ‘I am not free’ is another thought. Isn’t it? Any feeling can come and go. But in what way is the awareness of it touched or affected by any of this content?

But I do understand that you have had strong content appearing for you, both with your own body and with loved ones, so we can rest here for a while and then we can continue this conversation.

Ustreamer says, “Hi Ananta. This is my first time. Just yesterday I felt like something was missing in my life. Today I woke up early and saw this on the top of my stream on Facebook, and here I am. It is Aparna, by the way.”

Oh, welcome Aparna. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. I am so happy you are here.

All right, thank you everyone.  Moojijiki Jai !

Namaste. Welcome everyone.  We’ll just wait for a couple of minutes for everyone to join in.

So we have two options, we have the social stream and we have the chat window. Maybe we can try out both to get the questions in. Maybe we’ll try the chat first; can everyone see the chat? If you can see the chat window, can you type on this ‘yes’? Is the quality of the audio and video alright? Welcome Jyotika and Ram also. I’m a bit low on the screen. Yes, unfortunately this room has only this much lighting, so let’s see what we do. Maybe I’ll change to another location from tomorrow. And maybe if I face the light, let’s see. We’ll try out something before tomorrow.

So who has a question? So for everyone who has just joined, we are trying out the chat window, for the questions. If you have a question you can type it in on the chat window. [From now on, Ananta is reading the chat, and reading and responding to chat questions].

Malika says, “What does it mean to be a Rumi?”

Is it because we keep saying there are so many Rumi’s here, is that why the question is; or does it have another meaning?

She says, “I feel like a Rum,i but don’t really know why.”

I see. Actually when we joke that ‘Everyone is a Rumi’ in the satsang group, we are basically talking about the beautiful expression that has been coming through everyone, the beautiful words coming from the heart, the pure joy that is being expressed through words after being in satsang for a while. So many of the sangha is expressing themselves so beautifully, and it’s so nice to read the beauty coming through these words, that it sounds like you are reading Rumi himself. That’s why we say that. We say that everyone is a Rumi.

But when you say ‘I feel like a Rumi’ are you referring to the love and joy that you are feeling in your heart now? There seems to be a beauty in that getting lost in this love?

That’s very good. It’s very beautiful. You can trust this completely. Nobody has gone to that state and then regretted it. You can drown in this love completely.

[Laughs]. She says, “I woke up this morning and every cell in my body was dancing for joy.”

It’s so beautiful. How many of us can say this? On a Monday morning, where the whole world is saying ‘I have the Monday morning blues’ you have someone who says ‘Every cell in my body was dancing for joy’. That is a beautiful beautiful blessing, isn’t it?

She says, “Right to my toes and fingertips.”  That’s very good.

I’m always with you. Always with you. I am with you till the point when you realize we have always been one.

So do you all feel that this is good to do? Should we do this regularly? Very good. I must admit, though, that it’s a little strange for me because I see a visual of myself in front of me with a time lag. So, there seems to be a person sitting in front of me who is speaking what I said about a minute ago. So it’s a little bit strange to have an interaction this way, but I guess I’ll get used to this as well.

Yes, Deva, I was speaking about satsang, to do satsang in this way. I just wish there was a way we could get, get all of you to be here in front of me asking the question, as a video. Jyoti, I’m not able to do that because the chat window seems to come up right next to this video, and if I was to minimize this window I would not be able to see the chat either. Anyway I’m learning to ignore this person [himself in the video screen]. That’s fine.

Yes, we thought about skype as well for a while. But what happens with skype is I cannot invite people; what I would like to do is just put this on Facebook and say ‘I’m available online for satsang’ so that anybody that feels in that moment to join can also join in. Whereas skype you have to have contact details and it has to be more planned out.

This seems like a more spontaneous format where anybody who has a question can immediately just get online and look at the question. It seems to have a little more space and freedom about it. It does have the disadvantage that you don’t see the person in front, but I suppose we can get over that. It’s very good we did this today within this closed group, so that it gives me a little bit of practice with this format as well. When we do this with a new set of people we’ll be completely clear about how this works.

[Responding to chat:] Yes, yes. Ustream? Maybe. Although I feel ustream is meant to be more of a broadcast platform, so I don’t feel that they will want to make it as interactive. But another option we could look at in the future maybe could be a google hangout. If we can have an open google hangout, I have seen somewhere, everybody has their webcams on and the person who speaks, their image comes up.

That’s ok. We’ll use this for now and then if someone wants to experiment with some other formats, if they feel that this flexibility still is there of having the ability to invite new people and it’s a useful way to do it, then we can look at those as well.

Let me see if I can get the brightness up a little bit. Is this better now? It will take about a minute to show up on your screens.

[Reading from chat:] ‘Live webinars’. Okay. Like Webex sort of platform? Oh I see, Rupert Spira has one of those. Okay. Also ‘The brightness has not helped, it was better before’. I see. Isn’t this too dark? Okay, so we’ll leave it like this for now. Deva says it was better for her before. And how is the brightness on your monitor Deva? Okay great so let me remember this value for brightness. It’s at 26, contrast at 39.

So I see that there are 8 of you online. If you could just tell me who all are here on the chat window.

Jyoti is here.

Manju is here

Bhakti is here.

Deva is here.

Malika is here.

Niru is here.

Jyotika and Ram together, so that means eight.

Okay, also like censored problems? What does that mean? It’s okay, like problems.

[Daughter comes on screen. Sita whispers:] What are you doing?

[Ananta:] I am doing online satsang test. Say hi. They are these people.

[Sita:] So many.

[Ananta:] Seven, eight people.

[Sita:] Who call you father?

[A:] Niru. You want to come? [Inaudible conversation].

Oh, Malika’s name is also Rhea. Mary Rea. Very nice. Rhea is the name that my daughter was born with, or we gave to her, but Mooji gave her a beautiful name called Sita.

So Deva, do we do your naming tomorrow, or do we do it in the big satsang we have on Saturday?

[Responding to chat:] Yes, she [daughter] uses the name Sita. But at school and her friends know her as Rhea, and the family is also used to calling her Rhea, so I feel Rhea has stuck on more. But in the Sangha everybody knows her as Sita.

Niru wants to share something. She says, “Father surrendering everything to you, every moment is joy and happiness.”   So beautiful, thank you.

Deva says, “What do you think is better?”  We do it on Saturday maybe. Okay, so we do it on Saturday.

[Sita:] Can I ask you a question?

[Ananta:] Yes. [Inaudible conversation]. Just close my door. Very welcome my dear.

Jyoti would like to share something, please go ahead. Jyoti says, “This is remarkably similar to a dream I once had. The most beautiful dream. In the dream I knew I was dreaming very clearly. And I arrived to a place that was in India.”

I lost the video somehow, did you guys also lose the video? Oh it’s back now.

Jyoti says, “I was greeted by some small children very much like Sita, and then I met someone very much like you. At the time of dreaming I had been very upset, falling asleep I asked for healing. You told me that everything was fine and you could not choose for us, but in the end everyone would end up with you.”

Oh that’s so beautiful. Yes, it’s true. In the end everyone must end up with me, isn’t it?

And why is that?  It’s because we were never separated anyway, we are not separate at all. It’s just that we are playing this game, we are playing the game of separation, and of liberation, but it all happened only in the mind.

Jyoti says, “I awoke somehow with my eyes open, and what I could see then was my room, but also very similar to what is in the background with you. I was very happy when I woke up and ran around the house to tell everyone my dream. It made them happy too.”

So beautiful. Thank you so much, Jyoti. That’s very beautiful. Yes. You’re very welcome my dear child. Love you so much.

Malika says, “How can this body take so much joy and love?”

This is the natural state, this is the natural state. Initially it does seem like a shock for the body to have so much emotion flowing through it, but the body will get used to it very easily.

It is so beautiful just to sit with all of you like this. Deva says there are advertisements of 30 seconds.Maybe I need to upgrade to the pro account. [Inaudible conversation]

Niru has a question. This is Niru, isn’t it?

She says, “I have a question Father. Let me see if I can frame it well. Does doership cause suffering?”

Yes, completely. To carry this misconception that there is an individual identity here that is doing something, or there are individual identities that appear in front of us who have the individual will to do certain activities, is one of the most important reasons for suffering. Because the instant we realize that it is consciousness itself that is the one doer, then suffering cannot survive, isn’t it? Because most of our reasons for suffering are around ‘Why did I do something?’ or ‘Why did another do something to me?’

So once this is seen that there is no individual doer here, then suffering cannot last very long. Because most of our thoughts are around ‘How do I defend myself from the world?’ or ‘How do I make my life better?’ or ‘How do I interact with others?’ So it’s about ‘How do I do certain things in my life?’ And in this sense of doership we perpetuate the false sense of the individual; and this individual when investigated, it is clear that it does not exist at all.

Think of the last few reasons why you suffered? When there was suffering in your life, what was the reason for that suffering? And you’ll find that at the root of it there will be some doership.

Okay I should remember to lock my door the next time so my kids don’t make this racket. Let me just close this door.

Part 2: [Broadcast resumes as video part 2, after temporarily losing connection].

[Ananta:] I’m back now. Sorry to stop broadcasting for a minute.

Yes, so we were speaking about doership. And for me the root question there is, “As what must I be a doer?’ Because otherwise the question of doership can last a long, long time. This debate about free will or God’s will, it’s my will or not my will, it can go on for a very long time. I feel that the root here is to investigate: ‘As what? As what must I be a doer?’

Once we investigate that, we realize that, ‘I felt that it was as a person, that I was a doer, but I have searched for this person and this person just does not seem to exist. I cannot point out where this person ever was’. And because this person never existed, then how can something that never existed be a doer of anything at all? Isn’t it? So unless we believe in a personal identity, we cannot believe that ‘I as a person or the ego’ can be a doer of anything at all. It’s clear?

Yes, Manju, please go ahead and ask, because we have only a few minutes left, and I have a lunch meeting to get to in a while. So, you can just ask.

Deva says, “I have to leave. Much love to all; so much.”  Our love to you Deva as well. Thank you so much for being with us today.

So Manju says, “It’s about desire, and the desire is not mine. I don’t know if I can frame it properly. Some people or the society expects you to be or to behave in a certain way. And because of that a desire arises, for example job, money, marriage, kids, etc. I know it is not real, but when you are with so many people a thought does arise here and there about this. It is momentary, but I will surely not be in a happy state during that period.”

Yes. Manju, then this is your satsang for the time being, isn’t it? Because life will always create those situations to test your true understanding. So if there is something that you…, when you are surrounded by people who seem to carry this sort of an energy, then there must be some belief that these people…, firstly, that they are real and secondly that their opinion matters in some way. So, we must look at these things. No?  So, if our own thoughts have stopped bothering us now, and we pay no attention or give them no belief, then why must we get affected still by the thoughts and beliefs of the others around us? And once they see that we are completely unaffected by their beliefs and opinions about us, then they will stop expressing themselves in this way as well.

And life will always give us these situations, where it takes us deeper and deeper into the true understanding of who we are. And that is why it is so perfect. So, do not judge them, because their intention is not to hurt you, most likely. Do not judge them like that. But you do not need to take their advice. Because, take advice only from those who are free from suffering themselves on how you can free yourself from your own suffering. Otherwise it is like somebody who does not know math very well but goes to a tutor who himself does not know math very well, so that will not help. And I know that most likely this is unsolicited advice, that it’s not advice that you asked for.

Okay my dears. So what do you say, should we call it a day today? And do you feel that we can continue like this and leave it open for other people to join as well?

Very good, Manju. Very good.

Alright then. Thank you so much everyone for joining us today.

Oh, Baishnaibi, I have to go for a lunch meeting. So maybe we do this tomorrow?

Namaste. Moojiji ki Jai !

Ananta:  Namaste. Welcome to satsang. Welcome everyone on-line as well. Moojiji Ki ! Jai!

Q: Anantaji Ki! Jai!

A: No questions? Also people online can ask questions on the social stream on Ustream. If you are on the Ustream page, you can see the social stream and you can ask questions there.

Q: I’ve not really heard about your awakening…, if you could share something.

A: Thank you. So the question is “What happened here?” (puts hand on his heart).

Q: Or what was felt.

A: So, what I feel to do, and I think the answer will also come as we go along, but what I feel to do is just talk about the overall context first.

So, what is it that we are doing in satsang? Let’s talk about that first. Why do we come to satsang? That’s the basic, basic thing. Since we are here, there must be a reason why we come to satsang, isn’t it? So maybe for a few minutes we can look at that; and then we can get into what has happened here as well.

It must be that something recognizes inside us that the way life has been going, or “the way I believe that my life has been going doesn’t seem to be working anymore. And that is why I’m looking for some answers. I’m looking for a way to get rid of the suffering which seems to exist in this life”. And many people try various things to get rid of this suffering. Satsang is one of the ways which people try.

What happens in satsang? What happens in satsang is that a question is asked which we’ve never encountered before, we’ve never seriously encountered before; which is, you’re concerned about your life but who are you in the first place? And throughout the course of our lives most of humanity does not really ask themselves this question. How many people have seriously contemplated this?

So, the effort seems to be in sorting out the content of life which is appearing, rather than first understanding who is living this life. And when this question first comes up in satsang most people leave. Most people leave. So it doesn’t have to be that they come to a place or a retreat and then they leave, but when they encounter it first, it could be in a book or it could be on Youtube or it could be something… Like, we’ve tried to introduce Mooji to so many people. A small percentage actually stays, isn’t it?

Because immediately we’re so used to hearing this voice in our head which says, “What is all this? What is the point of this? What is the benefit of this?” The mind will play it’s trump card and say, “What is the benefit of finding out who I am?” and “Can you really find out?”  It will say these kind of things. “Can you really find out?” And, “How does it help me if I was to find out?” So it wants all the promises of what this can get me before I can just start looking at who I am.

But isn’t that completely strange? Because we live the life of this person for whatever number of years, 70, 80, whatever life has been allocated to us, and we want to make the life of this person better and better and better. But we never say, “Who is this person really?”

When it is investigated very simply, and said, “Okay, what do you believe you are?”

Most people say, “I am this body” but they truly don’t believe that. Because if they truly believed that they were the body they would be only concerned with things like physical pain, physical disease, other things that happen in the body like hunger, no? That would be their only concern. It would be quite free actually.

But what are the things that actually seem to bother us? What are the things that actually bother us? “Why is my partner treating me this way?” “Why is this person not giving me respect?” “How should I make more money?” “What if I run out of money?” All these things are what bothers us more than the physical concerns of the body, isn’t it?

Then we say, “So, whose problems are these?” They’re not the body’s problems, the body is not concerned how somebody is speaking with us, is it? The body never complains that “Oh, I’ve got a body ache because this person spoke to me this way.” It does not.

So, truly, truly, I don’t feel that too many people in the world believe that they are the body. If they were to truly believe it, then I feel that they would also have a very free life actually. Because the body doesn’t ask for too much; it asks for some very basic things that are easy to provide. So what are we really catering to? Whose needs are we really catering to? It’s worth looking at, isn’t it?

So, we’re catering to the needs of something which is completely imaginary, completely imaginary. We are catering to the needs of a character we have created in our own minds, and we started giving it so much belief that we believed that we are this character. And it is built up of these concepts that we’ve picked up along the way. First the concepts came from our parents, “You are this person. You must be a nice person, you must be truthful” you know, “you must behave well.” Based on the parents conditioning then the child also first starts gathering the conditioning of it’s own. But even that changes over time. So what we believed about ourselves some years ago is not what we believe about ourselves today.

So, we have to look at what is the consistency of this belief in this person that we believe that we are. So it’s clear that we’re catering to the needs of this? Does anybody have any questions about that?  ….  It’s clear, no?

So, we’re not truly catering to the needs of the body mostly; we’re catering to the needs of this imagined entity which we have built up. And we get most affected when this imagined entity is attacked; that somebody comes and says, “Why did you behave like this? Why did you lie to me?” All these things seem to attack the identity which we’ve created for ourselves, which then says, “Oh, because I’ve put an investment, so much investment, into building this persona, personality”. Now somebody comes and says, “You are not like this” we get immediately threatened. Right? But when we really look, what do we find?

Firstly, not too many people look at all, because we’re so convinced that we must be this. So, it’s like a blind spot. The mind itself has created a blind spot, so it prevents the looking of this. Because immediately the resistance will come, you know? “What’s the point? It’s never going to happen. It’s all nonsense.” Or somebody will come and say, “Do this when you’re really old. Live your life now. You have responsibilities.” All this resistance will come.

But when we start looking…, if there is even an instant of looking, just pure open looking, I feel that complete transformation is possible. Because what we find is that there is no such person. There is no such person that ever lived here.

Q:

A: Chameleon it is, yeah, absolutely.

So, what makes us believe that we are this individual entity which is separate from the oneness of everything? What makes us believe that? It is this device which we seem to have fitted here (points to head) which comes up with inputs all the time, see? “You are this, you do this” and we blindly follow it. Most of the world blindly follows the inputs that we are getting from this…I’m calling it a device today somehow, ha ha ha.

But have we ever checked, “Why am I listening to this? What has it got me after so many years of listening? Am I happy? Am I joyful? Am I peaceful?” It keeps saying, “Yes, yes. Keep going for happiness, keep going for peace.” But it will never say that it is here right now. It will always say, “If you do this, then you will find peace.” “If you find liberation, you will find peace. If you have money in your bank, you will find peace. If you get a partner who loves you, you will find peace.” It will come up with all these stories.

And all these stories have come true for many of us. In the events of our lives, they have come true for many of us. But have we found peace? No. It says, “This is done now, but if you do this, then you will find peace”. And we keep taking this promise from the sales person in our head and we keep listening to the promises that it has, and we keep suffering more and more. That seems to be the condition of most of humanity.

Now a few rare ones, they say, “I’ve had enough of this!” They say, “I’ve had enough of this, I want to come to a satsang and really am open to the answers which are there.” That is what is key is satsang is openness. It is not how much intelligence you have, IQ you have, you know, what books you’ve read; none of that is important. But if there is openness, then somebody who is completely energy-created, or somebody who is a child could also get it.

So what happened? It’s very simple. The master says, “Who are you, who is having all these problems? Who are you who that wants this liberation? Who is the one who wants freedom? Show me.” And when this question is asked, very few stick around to look; but those that do, inevitably find their freedom. And freedom comes in what? Just in seeing that I was never this. It doesn’t come from something new, it doesn’t come from an experience which happens. An experience could just be the by-product.

So this should be very clear to everyone. Because most people believe that once I have a certain experience, then I am free. It is not true. The experience is only a by-product. It seems to occur sometimes, and it doesn’t have to occur. No, no, no. And it could be different shapes and different forms, a by-product. So it is not in the by-product that we are interested; just in the fact that what is discovered here… So there could be big fireworks, there could be blue light, there could be chakras shining, all that fancy stuff could happen, but all of that is not relevant. What is relevant is: What is the real discovery?

And the real discovery is very simple, it is only that I have never been this individual entity which I have believed myself to be. Because I looked, and it is just not there. And if I look and it is not there right now, then it cannot be real. Because if something is real, then it must be ever-present. It cannot be real momentarily, and then fade away, and then come back again. Only what is false can play this game. What is real is ever-present. And therefore when I looked, there is a discovery this belief is completely false. So that is what is called the dropping of this ego, the dropping of this personality; just dropping of an idea that I am an individual person.

So is there anybody here who still feels that they are an individual person? We can look at that.

And it’s not like you’ll get an “F” grade if you say it, because all of us have been there. (I have two volunteers who are saying that, (the children) I wish they would get better grades.. ha ha ha).

So, all of us have been there, and there’s no judgment about it. I don’t want anyone to feel that, “Oh, there’s so much peer pressure here that we cannot say “yes, yes, I believe (I’m still a person), because all the others seem to be like…’it’s so clear, I’m not a person.’ So, we don’t need to get into that peer pressure because what happens then is we start deluding ourselves, and it becomes only our intellectual concept that we have understood, it does not become a real experience that we are having. Not in the sense of the experience that we spoke about, but our true understanding of what we are.

So many will say, “Okay, I’ve looked and there is no person there. Does that mean I’m nothing?” Important question, very relevant. So, “I’ve looked and I cannot find an individual but I cannot find anything else either. Does that mean I’m nothing?” The answer is yes, but not in the way that you think of nothing. We are nothing phenomenal. But, the question now is, okay, you looked, so the looking is there. What is that? Is the looking also nothing? Or is the seeing also nothing? Or is the awareness also nothing?

It is nothing phenomenal. So we cannot point to the attributes of it because it is not a phenomenon. But it is not ‘nothing’ in the negative sense, that there is really nothing. It is a nothing which is the full nothing from which the whole universe actually emerges. Because without the awareness of it, it cannot be perceived, and unless it is perceived, it cannot be real; or perceived as real.

If this is understood, then there’s really not much else. So, then we can really look at it and say, “Okay, the awareness is always (t)here. Am I really that? Or is there something else to this?” “Where am I in relation to this awareness?” And then we find that, there is just this One.

That is why this is Advaita. If there is just this One, then everything else must arise from this, and then fade into this, and continue to be made up of this also.

We were taking an example the other day where we said that you have water; and if water is everything there is, and it solidifies, it is still water; but if you look at it, it does not feel like it is water. If somebody doesn’t know, if a child is seeing an ice cube for the first time, he will not know that it is water. He will feel that it is a substance which is different from water. In the same way, when consciousness arises from pure awareness it feels like it is something else. But it cannot be anything else, because awareness is all there is.

And all of this is just appearing and disappearing. If you have seen that I am just the watching of it, or the awareness of it, then what here can affect us in anyway? No? It could be anything at all. It could be that this body’s head is getting cut off. So what. I mean, in the moment, of course, there will be pain, there will be fear, you know, that can arise. So these things will come up. But is the awareness affected by any event which could happen?

I’ll tell you the most beautiful thing, which is that only that which is meant to happen happens. Because if it is happening for us, it seems to have some impact somewhere, that means there is something that we can still look at.

So a lot of time what happens is that, especially in new Advaitic circles, it’s very fashionable to say very fancy things like, “Yeah, yeah, suffering is happening and there is complete acceptance of suffering also, there is complete allowing of suffering to happen.” It is true at the ultimate level, so you cannot argue with it. But the point is that suffering means that there is a resistance of what is appearing; there is some resistance to what is appearing. Then, if there is resistance, resistance means ego. Resistance is another word for the ego itself.

So how can resisting, which is blocking, and allowing, which is opening, be happening at the same time? Can somebody show me how it could be done? So all this could come from our intellectual understanding of this. Because it’s very easy to say, “Allowing everything means allowing suffering also.” Ultimately if there is suffering, the easiest way is to not resist it, and just let it go through. That is true. But to say that, “I am completely liberated now, and suffering comes very regularly for me, and that is also allowed”…, that is just clearly from the mind itself. Because you cannot be crouched like this, and be completely open like this at the same time. Because if you’re completely open like this (spread arms out), then there cannot be suffering. There can be pain. There can be events and there can be momentary grief also. But there cannot be the psychological suffering about, “Why does this happen to me? Why does it happen all the time? Why is my life like this?” All this is what I call suffering.

So maybe some of them are calling pain suffering, And then they say, “Pain is being allowed.” That is okay. But you cannot have a closed fist and an open fist at the same time. So when we say that we are allowing psychological suffering, we are saying that my fist is closed and it is opened at the same time; because you’re putting two opposites together which is allowing and resisting.

We took a detour in that direction a little bit.

So, when I went to Mooji, this is what happened. I sat in front of him, and I don’t know, I really…, there were some words that came out of my mouth but it was not apparent to me that these words are coming out. I just looked into his eyes, and in looking into his eyes, I got the darshan of what was real; and in that pure darshan, I realized that there is no person here, and there never has been. And this oneness that we kept hearing about for so many years, and reading about for so many years, was SO apparent in that moment.

So, this individual person dissolved in his Grace. That is what I can say.

Of course, the children get very embarrassed when they see the video of that happening, because there was crying, there was laughter, everything happened at the same time. “Wow, can you just get a grip,” you know? Ha ha ha.

But there was a dissolution of this individual identity which was believed to be real earlier; and then it was completely seen that it’s fake, it’s always been fake, it’s always been rubbish actually.

And we cannot refer all of this to the mind also. Because what happens is often in satsang I see, that all this is spoken and then I can see in the eyes of people, they are saying, “ok, buddy, what do you feel about this?” They are still going back to the same person and saying “can you really dissolve, can I really dissolve?” He will not say “yes.” We expect it to get reformed and to understand. It will not. The mind will not say yes.

The other thing it will start saying is that “all this is okay for satsang, but what about the reality? Give me the ground reality of what is real.”  Very often it will say things like this…that “All this is okay, satsang ..yes, yes…and ultimately it must be true also, but right now I need to pay my bills, but. what about reality?” All nonsense actually! Because there is nothing more real than this understanding

This is reality and it is possible to be in this reality and for life to function the way it has to function.  And the more we fight this, the more suffering we will continue to perpetuate.  That is also okay, you know, because the more we fight these little battles within ourselves, the more there will be a deepening of the understanding. That is why I feel it is much better to be in the world when these explorations are happening than to be secluded in a cave somewhere, because in the cave there is nothing to actually look, and nothing that can test our understanding. Life, in this world, seems to be immediate. The instant there is some arrogance, or something that comes up, there will be one whack that comes immediately. That is so beautiful, isn’t it? It’s so wonderful how it all plays out like this. I like to say that the Universe does not make a mistake and it has perfect timing.

Because both these issues the mind says; First is, “Why is this happening to me?” implying that the Universe makes a mistake and these things keep happening to me. If is happening to me its happening for a reason. And the second thing it will say is, “Why now?, just when I was starting to….” And that’s why I say it has perfect timing. If we can just accept this, then this seemingly-outside world cannot bother us.

So the one that believes that “I am not free” is not the one that you are. The one that believes “I am free” is also not the one that you are. Because the one that is truly free does not have any need to make any proclamations whatsoever. Sometimes it can just arise as a feeling from the heart; it’s okay,…but it’s not going that way and saying, “I am free, you are not.”  It is not going that way. That is just the spiritual ego which comes from a purely intellectual understanding.

So we have a question online… Harsha99 says:

Q: “I have never felt that there is no gender while the mind is empty. How can we feel the sense of no gender?”

A: So what he is saying is that – the mind is empty…there is no thought. But yet I feel like I am a man.  That actually means that…”yet I feel like I am this body” that is what he is saying. When he says that “yet I feel like I am this gender” means that “yet I feel like I am this body.” So what you could do is just look at who is looking at the body. Is the body looking at the body? Is the body aware of the body? When we go to sleep, we will have a dream and in the dream you will have a different body, isn’t it? It could be any gender, it could be an animal also, could be a baby, could be an old man. In that also the mind will try and tell us that “I am this body.”

So are you that body (in the dream) or this body (as present now)?

It’s okay, if you truly, truly believe that “I am the body” then it’s a very simple life actually. So I’m not forcing a belief that you should not believe that you are not this body. I am not forcing it. Sometimes it will be very clear for us that I cannot be the product of all the food that I have eaten over many years. The body is what? It’s just that, isn’t it? Or it seems to be that. And when that clarity emerges, then we can say, like we said earlier, if we truly believe that I am the body, then be upset or be affected only by the  things that affect the body. Like temperature, like pain, like hunger; very simple existence. We cannot suffer from psychological problems if we truly believe we are the body. But intuitively, nobody believes that they are the body actually. They still believe that “I am this person.” Because it is the person’s desire to experience himself without a gender, it is not the body’s desire. So this personhood is the root of all separation and hence the root of all suffering.

I am going to stop putting “seeming, seeming, seeming” everywhere because every sentence will have “seeming separation,” “seeming suffering.”  Like Mooji says, “it’s all a big seeming” so we don’t have preface it now.

And yet everybody feels okay I got all of this, but this part is still real. And everybody believes that, okay, this other person sitting in front of me should be able to drop everything, but what I am feeling is truly genuine still now. Because my life has been the most special. We should look at that. That my opinions are still the most valid out there. Because what happens is that referring back to the mind. So you give what is heard here to the mind and then we say, “Yes, yes, yes, this part…yes, this I understood”.  Watch this trick, because this trick can keep you involved for many lifetimes. This trick is going on. “Yes, yes, yes, I’ve understood; but still a little more time I will take to understand this portion”. Or just “I’m understanding, I’m almost there”. That’s another trick, isn’t it? It’s a very, very powerful trick which seems so subtle, so simple, such a humble thing. “Okay I’ve understood mostly, am almost at the brink of it. I have to jump now, I have to jump in”. Jump into what? From what? All nonsense again. Right? It’s clear.

So where are we right here, right now? Have we ever been anywhere else? What is real is here; right here, right now, always. What kind of reality would it be if it comes and goes? Because it would need a container in which it could come and go. So that container must always be there. It’s like this space has always been there (indicating with a sweeping gesture of the hand the room). This building will come and go, this building will last maybe 100 or 200 years, it will come and go, but the space will always be there.

So if we attach to the identity of the building, then we are bound to suffer because what has come will go; but if we know that we are the space in which this building arises and goes; then we are unaffected by what happens.

So this is what must be seen and become our true experience. Then anything can come and anything can go. How can anything even touch us in the slightest way? In the real sense, how can anything even touch us in the slightest way? Can it?

So somewhere there should be this feeling that I don’t want to play this game anymore; because the game can just go on and on. It’s got batteries, unlimited batteries. It will keep creating new scenarios, new things to deal with, new situations. It’s made by the most powerful game creator in the world.

But the beautiful part is that everything that shows up can be used for our freedom as well.  If freedom is our truest desire in our heart then everything that shows up will be used to further the cause of our own stabilizing in the freedom.

But if playing the game is the true desire, even more than freedom, then everything will be used to perpetuate the game. Do you know what the mind will say? The mind will say, “Okay, okay, I’ve understood this but I want to win in this game also.”

Nobody has ever won. The kings, the great kings, Alexander, Napoleon; they have not won this game. Nobody has ever won.  Nobody, as a person, has found that happiness, peace and joy which comes from self-discovery. There is nobody! And yet you want to follow those beings. And also there is nobody.., Mooji kept saying this throughout this season this year that there is nobody who has got that self-realization and gone on to regret it. Nobody who has got self-realization will say I want Napoleon’s life, or I want to be a Rockefeller or Warren Buffet or something like that. So the ones that seem to have all of these things still want more and more and they are not happy; and the ones who have found realization don’t want to be anything or anyone. Then what must we follow? And this is over the ages historically, right? Was Alexander as happy as Guru Nanak ji was?

So we must have this clarity. And not in a forced way; am not saying “now” from an egoistic perspective, …am not saying like that. Somewhere there must be this (indicating to the heart), “I am really done with this now”. Because otherwise it becomes a very sticky sort of situation. One day you feel “I am free”, next day you feel “oh I am back”, next day you feel you’re free…next day back. Because there must be something inside that still wants to win at this game while having freedom in the pocket. So then it becomes part of the game: freedom,..check. Now next, what is it? (check).

That’s another mind trick which says, “Okay, you want this?…Okay, you got it now, clear. Now go for your promotion or go for your…” And I’m not saying to renounce the world. I have never said that. I’m not saying leave the job, renounce the world. I’m only saying renounce the mind. And let life unfold the way it must.

Because the only thing that can make us suffer is the mind. Not automatically; we have to give it our attention and our belief. It’s a two-step process to suffering; and both cannot happen without our permission. Even if attention sometimes wanders by itself, but belief cannot happen without our permission. It seems to happen automatically because we are so conditioned to our belief. That is why that video is super beautiful, that psychologist who says “STOP! STOP IT.”  Have you guys seen it? Some of you have seen it.  We’ll post it on the Net. Basically he is a psychologist, and anyone who comes to him… Okay, should we spoil it for them? (laughing) We’ll post it!

Q: [Inaudible]

A: The process to suffer might be more involved than the process to not suffer. Let’s take an example. Somebody says, “You’re horrible at your job.” Your boss; suppose it’s your boss, not somebody, comes and says, “You’re horrible at your job.” Some suffering could arise because of that. So rather than saying, “Okay this suffering is there and am just allowing it.” It’s okay to say. But to say, “Okay, so what is it? There is an identity here, of being this person who’s a good worker at my job, which seems to get hurt if it is attacked. Can we inquire into the reality of this identity?” That is, I feel, pulling the root out rather than applying these band-aids of just Advaitic stuff.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: No, no, no. See, 99% of your stuff will get wiped out when you let go of your thoughts. When thoughts are not given your attention and belief, most will go. There are some very strong, juicy things, you know, 1% of the stuff which seems to come up again and again. Let go, and it comes up again; let go and it comes up again. With that we can, instead of struggling with it over a period of time, we can look and say, “What is it?”  Bring your full attention to it then and say, “What is it? What are you trying to tell me?” And we look and we say, “Okay, there is some strong identity here which I have nurtured over the years with my belief and my belief and my belief, I’ve nurtured over the years so it’s not as easy to let go off. So those we can inquire and say “Who is great at his job?” Those we can look at and we will not find anybody. And it will get cleaned up.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Yes, yes, yes. The identity is a very fearful thing, no? Because it’s built out of nothing, so to protect itself it feels like any strong wind comes it starts feeling threatened, because it’s built out of nothing. So then because of this fear, when somebody seems to be attacking it, obviously you’ll want to get angry. So at the root of it is fear, no? Because there is fear anger will come to the “seeming attacker” and then there will be persistent anger against the “seeming attacker,” then there will be a hatred for him. So fear, anger, hatred…all part of the same cycle.

Q:

A: The “other chap” doesn’t exist. Because this is another mind trap, isn’t it? It’s only about you.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Yes, yes, yes. A stone definitely will not understand. But it is only about you. The mind will have great difficulty accepting this.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: So at the root there must be either deep exploration going on about who you are and that is making the mind very jittery, hence it wants to lash out; or it might want to seek support. So you might actually be getting angry and agitated at everyone, and somewhere deep inside maybe you’re trying to cling on to something that seems real. Because the reality of what you thought you were you have seen is not true.

Okay let me repeat that. So what you always thought you were, somewhere because of the exploration, you are feeling that this is not real. So you want to cling on to something else, which seems more real. But nothing can be clung onto, because the only reality is what you’ll find inside. Not even here (making a sweeping gesture of hand to indicate the room); although this could come closest, but not even here.

Because what is speaking here is just a mere projection of your own Satguru which is inside. There is no special value in this body (points to his chest). It is only Mooji which is speaking here, or whatever you feel Satguru is, which is speaking here. So it must be then found inside. So these words are pointing you just to that inner Satguru. So then you have no fear, not even fear of this body going eventually. Because it will, right?

So you must look at what is the sense of attack that you are getting from others that you want to lash back out? Or has it just become a habit for you to come back out? And know that life is creating the perfect situation for you to do this exploration. Don’t fight the content that is appearing, see why it is bothering me. If it is bothering me still then there is something to be looked at. In that way what seems to be appearing to perpetuate the delusion can be used to perpetuate the freedom. You trick the trickster. The trickster also comes from within you.  So you must be smarter than the trickster.

So the Course in Miracles had something beautiful. It said, “just another forgiveness opportunity”. If it is arising then it is just another forgiveness opportunity. This is very beautiful, I felt. And now this is just another opportunity to inquire, or just another inquiry opportunity. Because forgiveness as a term sometimes has a sense of subtle ego about it, because it is misunderstood. “I am forgiving you,” “I am the great forgiver.” That is why if you look at it as an inquiry opportunity it is better. Although forgiveness in The Course in Miracles, the way it actually means, is the same. It’s for oneself, exactly. But many beings, I have seen, take it to be “Okay, I am forgiving; you are very unforgiving; I am forgiving.”

Q: [Inaudible]

A: So, the whole thing is that what is in our mind seems to be playing out externally. What we are afraid to deal with somehow we repress, and because of that repression it has to show up out there. But if we’re able to deal with it ourselves…, so the Course says actually, if it comes up and you’re just able to let it go untouched, then it doesn’t even need to show up there. So if a thought about a particular person had some juice for us but now it can just go, then most likely those situations don’t arise for us on the outside. But if we just keep pushing them down then they are bound to arise outside, because they have to be dealt with. So in the school you will have to take the exam; whether you run from it or whether you say, “Okay, I’m going to face up to it and take it.”

Yes. So don’t fall into that trap that, “I have understood, the other is not understanding.” There is no other. And this is real! Because the mind will say, “Aha. This is okay for satsang but then…”  This is real. And we don’t need to go around telling everyone that “You’re not….” Haha, hehe. We’re just talking about the inner attitude. We’re talking about the inner attitude.

What is the sin that another can do? The only sin that another can do is the same “quote, unquote” sin that we’ve been doing over so many years which is to believe our thoughts.

So if we can forgive ourselves for forgiving our thoughts so many years of nonsense that we’ve believed, then it’s pretty easy to forgive the others who are in the same mode. I feel that is the true meaning of when Jesus said, “Let the one who has not sinned throw the first stone.” So, let the one judge who is not believing their own thoughts first.

Can there be any other sin? Even the word seems stupid now, right? Because even the most ultimate villain in the world, which are perceived to be villains, are heroes in their own head; they justify it in their own head. Their thoughts are saying, “Do this, it’s the right thing to do.” Or “You are entitled to do this because the world has made you suffer in this way. ”

Q: Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

A: Exactly, yes. So when we blame other people, what are we truly blaming them for? For the same mistake that we have been doing over so many years. And that’s how this silly game perpetuates. It’s like the ego is the dealer, and in the casino the dealer finally wins, right?

Q:

A: No. The mind is telling you now. It’s true right here, right now. So then what can cause the pain?

Q: The mind.

A: The mind. So, if we want pain, we have to first give it the attention and then give it the belief, then we get it. It’s not just a one step process, but a two step process. So to get it is not so easy. But we’re habituated to it. And it seems like a friend sometimes; at least I have my pain to cling onto. The foundation is not there. It can seem that we want both things; we want to play the game, and we want to be free.

So when we set conditions even on our freedom, that freedom means my life should become like this, like this and like this, then it could seem like a more dangerous process. That means that there is a lack of trust or there’s an arrogance that I can plan my freedom better than God can. Mooji joked about Janaka’s freedom, Mooji also talks about it, everybody wants a Janaka’s freedom. It’s so beautiful, no? He was the king, he was completely free. So even our freedom we have to plan. If I get to have freedom, let me have only that one. That is not freedom. The ones that are free are unconcerned whether they are the fakir on the road or whether they are the king like Janaka. And inside their hearts, both the fakir and the kings are the same if they are free. All of this is seen to be just an appearance, it does not matter.

Convinced? Yeah, I can sense that.

It’s okay for me, but my son should not hear all this. Huh?

So nobody, no matter what they have got in their life, the richest person, the most powerful person, the one who is the most-loved person, has gotten even a glimpse of the happiness that the free one has. And there is no one who has realized their true self and then said, “Oh, I wish I was instead the richest person in the whole world.” There is nobody like that. What more proof do we need now?

So the basic confusion actually seems to be that the mind comes and says, “But, okay, let’s talk about reality for a minute. Let’s talk about reality”. I’ll say, “that is not reality.” That is another trick. Today we’ve spoken about many tricks; maybe we can capture it somewhere. Many tricks of the mind. One of the tricks is to say, “It’s okay for satsang, and it’s good to feel better,” and then go back into the real world. But actually, THIS is real. What is being spoken of here is a pointing toward what IS real. It is not meant to be vitamins for us to become stronger in whatever other purposes we might want to use this for.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: It’s the same, hehehe. Every satsang is the same. Haha

Q: [Inaudible]

A: No. Ultimately it is not. This “I” can make this choice. What you’re saying is, “What can I do?”  This “I”, as long as there is belief in this “I”, can continue to let go. When the let go is complete, then it will be seen that this “I” never existed to make this choice.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Bhavagan had said that self-effort is very important on this path. Bhagavan had said this. He said we have the choice. What is the self-effort? To believe the thought which is coming next, or not. That is the only choice. As long as there is a belief that there is an individual entity, the individual entity has this as the only choice. And once it is seen that I was never an individual entity then, then even the letting go would have been seen to have been Grace that happened.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: No. Forget about the future. In the moment, are you free now?

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Stay. That’s it. Because if you start feeling, “Okay, in my …kosha, this kosha… what is still there, and how do I…?” …

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Let go of this one! This note. You have the guru. You have the guru inside.

Q: Sometimes I forget.

A: No, it doesn’t forget. You forget to look at it. It does not forget. We forget to look at it. But that also, looking will happen because there will be a point that so much efforting is there that it will be forced to look. That is the true meaning of what Kabir-ji said. He said, “ (Hindi or ?)” … “Everybody prays when there is suffering.” Nobody prays when there is no suffering. If there was no suffering, then why would prayer arise? So prayer we can replace with inquiry. So suffering is a beautiful grace which forces humanity to inquire.

Q:  .. is yoga….

A: You mean as Hatha yoga, physical yoga?

Q: … to completely pull the prana…, Because I can’t just say that I’m consciousness….I need to inquire. A lot of people say that, I’ve heard that meditation causes suffering.

A: The meditator causes suffering. The meditation doesn’t cause suffering.

Q: …with slow practices… with yoga…

A: So, we’ve refer to this also. We’ve said that also, that if you look at ‘Be As You Are’, which is a beautiful book, it’s a strange book. Because first it’s about people that can get that “I am the Self itself,” that direct pointing that you are this awareness itself. There the books starts. And when that is clear, you don’t need to read the rest of the book, eh? If that is not clear, then it goes to the chapter on inquiry. So then you inquire and say, “Who am I? Who is the sufferer? Who…?” Many Beings are not able to do the inquiry because the conditioning is so strong. Then there could be prescribed either a chapter on mediation or there is a chapter on mantra. Right? So you can go to meditation, some formal practice, something, because the conditioning gets wiped out, cleaned up quite a bit, no? But the thing that meditation is that as long as we take the fruits of the meditation for what we are in an egoless sort of way, then it is an excellent. But if it becomes like, “I am the meditator who is excelling and becoming better at the practice”, then it is just giving strength to the spiritual ego.

That is why the direct pointing is the simplest. There is no transit. So then after meditation, mantra, then there is some talk about Pranayam and controlling the breath and using the breath to still the mind and things like that. So, each according to his capacity can read the book according to what appeals the most to them. And you know in your heart, “This is actually making complete sense to me, or it is not”. If it is not, then go on to the next chapter.

For you, I don’t feel that you have to confuse yourself with all of this now. I feel that your inquiry is enough to show you the truth. You don’t need to now start attending a program on pranayam and…

Q: … but …. I want to completely dissolve into it, I want to plunge into it.

A: How are you out of it? No, not skeptically or chopping or anything, I’m just seriously asking. What is out of it?

Q:  ….because constantly the attention doesn’t go to the Self.

A: It doesn’t have to. So the way attention is, it is built in such a way that it seems to keep jumping from place to place. And when we leave it free…,

There are many who come and say that, ”I have kept my attention completely stable in the sense “I am” for many years”. _______ said that when he came initially. And I told him that seemed like too much work actually. Just let attention also go free. And when there is complete freedom which you give to attention…

Give your attention complete freedom right now. Let it go where it wants. It actually is completely freeing as an exercise. You will see that where you are is at home, and you’re not bothered about where attention is going, because you’re not sticking to anything; there’s not a needy grasping energy which is going along with your attention.

So, attention can go wherever, but I am at home always.

Now what you are saying could be coming from a fear that, “What if attention goes to an attractive thought, or an object which seems to be so magnetic for me that I end up giving it my belief?” Somewhat, do you think? Because only that can cause suffering. Otherwise attention going here or there doesn’t cause any suffering.  So if there are still some areas in which you feel that attention can go and can get your belief, look at the identities which are related with that.

I feel we can talk like this now because we’ve been sharing for some time. So only those will get your belief very rapidly, only those which would seem to have some identity left around still. So chop off those identities rather than trying to fix your attention on something. Because what will happen is that you will have this belief that the awakened ones are always like (freezes posture). It’s not the case. You’ve seen it. Mooji’s not like (freezes posture). That would mean that my attention is just (touches heart and puts eyes up to ceiling while freezing posture). My attention can go anywhere but where I am is always home.

You’ve seen videos of Ramana reading the paper, of Bhagavan reading the paper. You cannot read without the attention going to the words, isn’t it?

So, you do not have to know yogic practice to keep your attention still onto a place which will give you the power to forever keep it there. So as long as you are doing the practice, you can be uni-focused and keep it there. But once you stop, then again attention starts jumping. That’s the nature of attention itself.

So why do you want to put it in this box? What is the benefit?

Q:  [Inaudible]

A: Prana is not consciousness. Prana is life energy. Ok, now the confusion is clear. We cannot mistake prana to be consciousness. Prana is the life energy which seems to give energy to this body to do these actions which it is doing. Consciousness is the same energy which is God itself, you can say, which is creating this entire universe. So completely different levels, no? So it is that within consciousness is this body which seems to be me, and within this body then there seems to be this life energy which is functioning, and I’m able to, through some yogic practices, to control the flow of this prana, shakti, and energize some chakras and all of that. But it doesn’t mean consciousness. You cannot control the flow of consciousness. You can seem to control the flow of this life energy. Consciousness is the one which is doing all of this. Life is consciousness, God is consciousness, Atma is consciousness. Prana is just a life force.

As what would you control consciousness? If you were able to control consciousness, you could become unconscious right now. Become unconscious.  Haha. Consciousness is completely different. No, consciousness is what we accept when we say, “I wake up in the morning” is what wakes up first. All of this, even pranayam, is a play of consciousness. Consciousness is the one doer, which is doing everything.

So when you say, “I, as a person, am controlling consciousness” is a very funny idea. “I, as a person, have now got control over God.” So it’s not the same. Consciousness can play with it’s life energy the way it feels like playing.

So when the body is tired, it is the lack of this life energy, it seems. It gets recuperated during sleep and rest, or meditation or pranayam. It’s a very practical sort of force. When we do the pranayams, when we do the kriyas, then it seems to give us some temporary peace of mind, temporary relief from this mind; and gives us the space to contemplate the deeper question, which is self-inquiry.

That’s how it played out in my life, because if somebody initially had told me to ask and inquire who you are, I would have said it is nonsense. Even concepts of doership. None of this I would understand. It’s only after I went to ‘The Art of Living’ and did the kriyas and this sort of thing that there was some peace of mind to be able to really inquire and say, “Who am I?” And that does not mean that it’s the only process in which it works. Some of you are ripe enough that you come to one satsang and it’s clear, no? And some have to go through that. That’s why “Be As You Are” it’s very beautifully structured actually.

So with this pointing that you are the Self, which is Awareness itself, if it is clear, then what is to be done? Nothing to be done. If it becomes a true understanding, then nothing is to be done. If it is not, then best is to inquire. Because quickest, quickest. If not, then meditation, mantra, other practices. But I do not believe that just by pranayam somebody has attained the Self.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: So what is the state that you want to be in? What is your resolve?

Q: … I just don’t want to be an intelligent façade to play as experience. I want to experience it.

A: Experience what?

Q: The Self.

A: The Self. So, if the Self is real, it must be here now. If it is real, it must be here now. Very practically, I’m saying. If it comes and goes, then it’s not a Self worth pursuing, I can tell you that. So it must be here now.

Now, if I tell you that you have to walk three times up and down to the 8^th floor and then I will show you the Self, will that be appealing? No. You should say, “If it is here now, why can’t you show me now?”

Q: I want you to show it now.

A: Maybe once you do that… no, I’m just joking. Haha.

Q: Because I trust you…

A: I know, that’s why I was joking.

Okay, so it’s here now. So you have to tell me, what is here now? You can say, these objects. They seem to be here now. If you were to close your eyes, there would a perceiving of ? … these internal objects also; thoughts…

Q: No thoughts.

A: That’s the disadvantage of doing this exercise in satsang. Haha. But even that there are no thoughts is a thought, so that also is perceived. Then, is there a perceiver there?

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Hmmm. How far from the perceiving are you? You ought to look and tell. Because now I know that you know the right answers already; the mind can immediately already jump to the right answer. You are to look and say, “Okay, the perceiving ….”

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Cannot find a perceiver. And where are you in relation to the perceiving? Because you cannot say that I am not there. Right? There’s clarity that you exist. Haha. Your eyes are not conveying that right now.. haha.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: So you are the perceiving itself. And where is the Self in all this?

Q: Somewhere within…

A: Within the perceiving…?

Q: No, I have this image that…

A: Image. Who is perceiving this image? Very good. So who is perceiving the image?

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Can you become the image and not the perceiving?

You’re perceiving the image also. Right. It’s imagination, it should be like this, and it’s very deep and it’s very peaceful, it’s very infinite, very beautiful; glorious state.

But who is seeing this?

Can you change your perspective from being awareness into the object which is being perceived; even this beautiful imagination?

Q: There is no object.

A: And even if there was an object, could you jump into it, stopping the awareness and become that object?

That’s the whole funny part of this game, right?  That we cannot ever be anything else except this awareness.

Now is it awareness saying, “I want to be the Self?” Huh?

It’s clear that you are the awareness? It’s clear that you are the awareness?

Q: Yes.

A: Yes? The awareness is the Self.

Q: You sure……..?!?  (laughter in the room)

A: Yes. Yes. Sure.

Self means what? What I always am, isn’t it? And you’ve seen that you are the awareness now; and you cannot become something else, no matter what you try. Then what else can be the Self?

So in some scriptures what is called the Self is the sense “I am” which gives birth within us. So that’s what we say Self-realization is. Then I come in contact with my Atma-consciousness, or God, which gives birth inside us.

But now we even left that stage behind, isn’t it? And what we are defining as the Self is the pure awareness within which even the consciousness gives birth.

Okay, so suppose you were to discover the self; not the awareness Self but the self which you imagined earlier? What would happen now? What should happen to you?

Q: … I was having sort of mind attacks, that I need to find the Self, and just sort of isolate myself and just be on my own; dig more deep, dig more deep. I just don’t know where it is hidden that image …

A: It’s an image, like you said. The image cannot be you. Anything that is being perceived, an object of our perception, cannot be us. It can come from us, it does come from us. But it is not us. It’s seen, no?

Because if I was just this image, I’d be very shaky. No matter how beautiful the image, it would be a state, right? And any state comes and a state goes. So if I were just a state, it would be a very silly life; a very fearful life.

So what you are is beyond all states. You are that in which states are born and states die.

And you are enjoying this game in some way. When you start believing that you are that state in some way, then you are really on that roller coaster then. Highs and lows, and you’re really experiencing… Nothing will happen to you. You can believe that you’re the worst person in the world, but nothing will actually happen to you. It’s just that the ride that you have or the movie that you bought tickets for will be very gruesome. Full of all this.  And then you’ll go to the ticket counter, and you’ll go to the guru and you’ll say, “can you change my movie a little bit?” And he says, “okay.” So, what are you believing yourself to be? Which character in the movie are you believing yourself to be?

Just remember that you are the one who has bought the ticket and is watching the movie; you’re not a character in it. Then no movie can trouble you. You can have a preference to make a change in a particular way, but it cannot really make you suffer.

So for there to be a self beyond this, it means there must be somebody who owns this awareness. Because the only thing beyond this would be something that owns the awareness itself, right?

Because we’ve come to the point of understanding that there is awareness. And I cannot seem to find a difference between me and this awareness. But when we look, there is nothing, there is no entity there. And even if there was, it would only be perceived. Hence there must be the awareness prior to it.

A: Is it becoming too confusing now?

Q: No.

A: The mind has painted one picture for you and said “okay, okay….you’ve understood something but now GO FOR THIS!!” “Go for it, go for the final end goal!! You will become this being with this halo around your head.”

Q: I was having plans of shutting myself and meditating…

A: Yes, yes..we’ll come and pull you out…(smiling). See this is the trickster no? Can you see? So much clarity about what is real and what is not, but still saying….its like you’ve reached the top….”maybe Mt. Everest…let me climb that.” That becomes the trickery behind spiritual practices, they are very useful to calm the mind, to give us the momentum to inquire but when they become an end in themselves, then they become very problematic. The realized one never says I have to do this practice. Based on the capacity of the questioner, he will suggest something. So this feeling that I have to get somewhere…it’s very very tricky. If it’s true it must be Here, in the Now – right here, right now, it must be present here. Were you there in Rishikesh when Mooji took the example of “om namah shivaya” push-ups? So he said that, “sometimes I feel like I should give you this practice”…everybody remembers the number wrong…so I remembered 26…so he said, “we’ll do these 26 push-ups and every time you come up you say (on the right say) – om namah shivaya – when you come up on the left, say – om namah shivaya” and you do that for a 100 days and then you come to me in satsang.” Sometimes the mind seems to be looking for something like this. But, if you are the Self, then what must you do to become the Self. Like Adyashanti’s beautiful example, “where does the shoe need to walk to – to become a shoe?” Its beautiful, just a simple sentence can become life-changing. To become the Self would mean I am not the Self right now. And if you’re not the Self right now, what must you be?

Self-realization means to realize it’s always been this. It does not mean I got up, and found a new state. What is lost is the idea that I was a separate individual. Yes, yes…what is lost is this idea that I was a separate individual entity. It’s a beautiful thing, you will not regret losing it. The loss of this individual entity is a beautiful thing. So give up your loyalty to it. Sometimes I feel like I am saying, “come and fly with me up in the air” – but somebody says – “can I take my ball and chain along, I’m too attached to it.” Its like saying, “I want my ego to come along with me.” And somebody actually told me this, that if I trust you and I follow your words, will you make sure that the person is fine? That still means there is so much attachment to the person itself.

Q: Have the cake and eat it too!!

A: Yeah…, but the person is not a cake at all! We are so attached to our suffering in some sense.

A: Let’s see if there is something online. Very sweet messages online – thank you, thank you so much everyone.

A: You want to come here?

Q: I got a little confused with life force (prana) and consciousness.

A: Think of prana as an energy force which gives vitality for this body to function. Like when you get tired you get out of prana. Does that mean you are out of consciousness?

Q: No….

A: Be clear. Let’s be clear about it. So the projection of the world is still going on if you are extremely tired, but there seems to be no force in this body to even do something.

Q: Okay.

A: Does the world start to fade? That’s when you are really sleepy…but if your tired and your eyes are open…he will not seem to be blurry, he will still seem to be there…so the projection, the creation of the world through consciousness which is beyond any of these forces will still happen, but this body does not have any vitality, and then what can you do? You can eat something which gives you prana, you can do some yogic practices which give you prana, you can rest or sleep which gives you prana. Its related to the functioning of the body – this prana.

Consciousness is the force which keeps the whole universe up.

Q: Isn’t that in consciousness?

A: Prana is in consciousness..yes, yes. In deep sleep you cannot talk about prana because there is not even the body right?

Q: I felt that the reference to prana was something out of consciousness.

A: No, no…there is nothing phenomenal outside of consciousness, only you are outside of consciousness.

Q: Because in Rishikesh, when I was there…I can relate to this…I had this experience…like I went to the bathroom and I had a headache…there was a lot of………..felt like my entire life force was sucked out of me, and I could see everything was there, but life force was just going away, and then after some time I felt it coming back again.

A: Yes. If consciousness was fading it would be like my hand itself is starting to vanish, some portions are just fading…prana is just the life energy which keeps the body running. Girija?

Q: It is what is the nadis..

A: Yes, the chakras….am not an expert on those, but you do your pranayams…correct…it is one of the forces that exists within consciousness itself.

Q: My confusion was just that I thought you said it was outside of consciousness.

A: No, no…nothing, nothing.

Q: We say oxygen is prana…

A: No its not oxygen…because what happens is that many of the yogis are able to do their yogic practices just on the basis of the prana shakti without even breathing for year.

A longish pause…(silence). (Laughs)….Both of us are just looking at each other…It’s your move next.

Q: I have heard of it, but…

A: No, no…even after these yogic practices…for a couple of moments…no breath is there, but everything seems to be functioning on the basis of the prana shakti itself.

Q: I was reading this book which says…prana is attached to your thoughts, so if your…

A: Am not against any of these practices, am against the practitioner concept. It does seem to have a strong co-relation with the breath though because prana shakti does have a strong co-relation with the breath, because you do the pranayams and it energizes the nadis.

Q: __________you start breathing normally and clarity comes.

A: Exactly, exactly

Q: They will all leave when you stop the practice, while this does not.

A: Correct.

Q: Lifestyle also affects this type of realization?

A: (Laughs) Now what is the specific question you have about yourself in this?

Q: My lifestyle is socially very active.

A: Means what?

Q: A lot of partying..this..that

A: What are you really asking..is it about..what?

Q: Means what I read and what I practice..there is a variation…

A: Are you referring to a particular habit or something…getting in the way?

Q: My profession is such that I have to meet a lot of people…to socialize..go for cocktails..this that…and all.

A: So then drinking gets in the way…some of these habits get in the way..So why don’t we do this..you realize who you are in satsang..and then every moment to moment you can decide if something should be done or not. Possible? What is coming up for you now?

Q: It’s difficult…

A: Aaaah! Why? Same thing what I told her…just that if it is real then it must be right here, right now, isn’t it?

Q: Yes.

A: So what gets in the way of realizing? That you can see now, so in the awareness that the mind tries to get in the way, the mind loses most of it’s power actually. So it’s beautiful that way no? So if you can see that okay the mind get’s in the way, then the mind itself doesn’t have much power left now.

And who’s aware of the mind?

Q: I know inside.

A: Yes. As what? The body is not aware of the mind isn’t it? So as what are you aware of the mind?

Q: As consciousness.

A: What is that?

Q: That is what I feel “I am”.

A: That’s just a label right now, so keep the label aside. Because it will only get in the way, it’s not helping right now. So the label “consciousness” is right now just a placeholder for your true understanding, so don’t let the placeholder get in the way of your true understanding. Many beings do that so am advising you to not do that.

So you have to that…okay, there is an awareness of this thought…I am aware of it – is there an entity there which is aware? You know what I mean by entity? Is there a person whose thought it is? Or is there a person taking hold of this thought? What is it that is there? And consciousness will become your living experience, then we will have a conversation about consciousness.  Right now, it’s only a label.

So you said that, “the mind gets in the way” as thought right? A thought will come. So when the thought is allowed to just come and go, then what stops you? So even for these kind of decisions which are “lifestyle decisions” my advise is when you come to satsang be completely sober.

Q: I am.

A: Laughs…I know. Otherwise, moment to moment, you will get an internal guidance which will say, “take this step” or “order another drink or not” you will know from inside. Follow that. Trust the inner intuition. When you learn to let go of the mind, there is another force that will guide you about these practical things. And you will rely on that guidance on what to do. About drinking or not drinking, about smoking or not smoking…

Yeah, that’s good.

What’s happening in satsang is that the mind seems to be dissolving, and it’s dissolving in the presence of your own satguru in your heart. In satsang you allow it to do that.

Q: It’s also the grace of your presence – can’t negate that…

A: It’s the same, it’s the same…

Q: There is a very clear recognition, that this is on the screen, am never touched. Am untouched. What about attention? Would it be right to say that even attention is on the screen? Because our attention takes birth on the screen of consciousness…

A: Attention is a very interesting topic which we’ve been contemplating. And attention seems to define what shows up on the screen…isn’t it? Because it doesn’t show up on the screen without there being attention to it. So suppose there was no such thing as attention and it would just be a showing up on the screen, and we created this concept called attention..am just proposing…we created this concept called attention to give some logic to why something shows up on the screen. Suppose. In that way of looking at attention, then it just another tool of consciousness, so consciousness has to play this game and show us these various things and then there is this concept that attention goes there or attention goes here…so at this moment..this had to show up on this screen and at this moment…this had to show up on the screen, and we say that attention moved. But can we define what really moved? It’s only the content of what showed up on the screen that only moved, isn’t it? (Laughs)…but there does seem to be a force which can give “attention” to even the most sublime force called the “I-amness” or the atma itself. So if that also is a play of consciousness…I know its getting too technical now…but if that also is a play of consciousness..whether the consciousness shows up for us or not, then there must be some agreement between this awareness and consciousness for this to show up. I’ve lost most of you am sure…but you get what am saying right?

So looked at in the worldly sense where we are saying that attention through our senses we can say its a play of our consciousness, but when we are talking about just giving attention to even consciousness itself, there seems to be a very sublime force which Mooji calls our most important tool actually, which seems to be there, where we can give our attention or not give our attention to something. But, when we explore it really deeply, even this starts to become shaky because at the end of the day, there is only awareness.

We’ve been exploring…so there is attention and then at the same time as attention there is awareness, and at the same time as consciousness giving birth, attention seems to give birth or maybe before, and then after consciousness has given birth, then we have the power to believe or not to believe, and based on the power to believe or not believe we create an identity about ourselves. And once we create a false identity about ourselves..then all this tamasha starts.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: That’s why I said when we looked at it in the practical phenomenal sense it seems like as consciousness is the holder of attention but when we look at it that there can be attention given to consciousness itself, then it must be awareness itself which is the holder of attention. So it’s like when the phenomenal world is there then it’s like attention is delegated to consciousness – that you take over now….but when the phenomenal world is not there, and you are marinating in the sense “I am” then awareness seems to be giving attention only to the “I-Amness” itself.

Q: Is there a distance between the attention and me – the awareness? There is no tangible distance?

A: There is no tangible attention also, so it’s very difficult to get that tangible distance.

Q: So attention is as illusory as…

A: Yes, yes, yes..consciousness is also ultimately illusory right? Blasphemy, but still.

Q: Awareness manifests these kind of forms, but just now you said it’s illusory___________.

A: Yes. So the illusion is that it is something other than awareness itself. In the water becoming ice, the illusion is that it is not water anymore.

Q:  [Inaudible]

All phenomenon is in the same bucket. Let’s put it that way. Whether you want to call it real or illusion is yours.

Q: [Inaudible]

A: Whatever this “I” does it doesn’t matter actually. I know that there is something which is playing like this…..consciousness is speaking to consciousness itself. The child can go kicking and screaming or it can go quietly, it’s okay.

The one that feels “I am not free” is not you and the one that feels “I am free” is also not you. I felt like repeating this.

Q: Tag-line of today’s satsang.

A: Who is holding on to the person? Give it to me now. Should be like that (gestures with hand to show a vacuuming action to draw out the persons…chuckles). There is no promise that the person can make you – which is worthwhile. It’s all false promises.

It’s good for today? Thank you so much. Moojiji ki jai. Anantaji ki jai.

Want to sing something? Shall I remove this mike?

~ ~ ~

Satsang link @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uYDhaugYQM

Namaste, everyone. Very warm welcome to satsang today.  Mooji-ji Ki Jai !

So nobody has a question? It’s going to be a short satsang today. [Laughs]

One of things that has come across in the last week, in some of the discussions I’ve had is that there’s a confusion about freedom. What is it that we’re really speaking about?

So there are a lot of beings out there who believe that it is freedom for the mind; or freedom for the ego actually. Whereas what we are speaking of is freedom from the mind, and freedom from the ego.

So nobody can give freedom to the identity which believes that “I am a body, mind”. That, by definition, is caught up in this falsehood. But to look at that, and to be free from that, is real freedom.

So, freedom is not this state where the mind can do anything that it likes. Freedom is a state where the mind has no power over us anymore. And it seems very basic when we speak about it like this, but you’d be surprised as to how many people are still caught up in this idea of attaining a state for the mind; a mind that always wants to be in a state of bliss or peace or joy; still coming from the personal identity that wants a particular state, expecting that the state would last forever and ever. But there is no state that lasts forever and ever.

Anything that comes will eventually go. Of course, naturally from here, there’ll always be this; when we’re in freedom, there will always be this peace and joy and love that emerges. But if there is still a person that wants particular states, then we must be aware that that is what is going on.

So, the so-called journey of the spiritual seeker many times becomes the journey of this mind itself, wanting to attain particular experiences, fireworks, you know, some states. It is actually a fallacy. What we are speaking about is getting to a natural state. And in the natural state, the mind has no power over us. It is only practical functioning which we can rely on the mind for.

So even now, it could be that we’re referring what is being heard to the mind, and think, “Hey, what do you feel about this stuff?” You know? Because we’re so used to referring to the mind, for everything that we come across. Everything that comes, we first give it to the mind and say, “Hey, is this right? Is this wrong? What is your view on this?” And very quickly the mind’s view becomes our view. We feel that is the default setting for us in some way. Have you seen that? So what we see in these appearances that appear in front of us, we quickly refer it to the mind and say, “Okay, what is your feeling? This being sitting in front of me, what is your interpretation of that?” And that interpretation becomes my interpretation. And without this interpretation, there is only freedom.

So if you stop listening to this interpreting commentator which seems to be sitting here, then we stop giving small meaning to objects that appear around us like this; either like this, or that seem to appear inside us. Actually it’s all in front of us, all dancing in front of us.  So, we can enjoy the dance’s entertainment, but we start believing what the dance effects mean anyway, and that is the fallacy. And then the cycle of suffering starts.

We were just talking about this the other day, and we said that it’s the dance of Shiva actually. Then the person is being trampled by Shiva, constantly. So when the feet are in the air for a moment, we feel that “okay, life is good”. When the feet come down on us again, then we feel like we’re being trampled by Shiva. So this is the dance of Shiva.

But if you can just see that we are just the watcher of the dance, and we are not that which can be trampled by even Shiva. Then nothing can touch us. That is a useful freedom to have; compared to the freedom of being in a particular state, because that is a very unsteady sort of freedom, no? So if it is a state which can be shaken out of, or it’s only temporary, then also this fear comes that “I hope this does not go”. Or if it goes, then we say, “Oh, I wish I had that state again.” So if it only becomes about the state, then there is trouble actually.

So, what we are talking about is the state-less state. I mean, if the states appear in us, then the states don’t bother us anymore. So just to clarify, that when we’re looking for freedom, we’re not looking for particular states or experiences. We’re not even looking for the enlightenment experience. Because we see so many questions that come, even in satsangs with Mooji, where people will say, “but it has not happened for me. It has not happened for me.  I’m waiting for it to happen”. Somebody came very sincerely and said, “I want it now. Can you give it to me?” And the pointing was there. Mooji was pointing it very clearly. But the mind was still expecting, from a personal point of view, some kundalini or something to happen, you know? Saying, “It’s not happening, it’s not happening.”

As long as we think of it as a happening, then we’re bound to get disappointed. Or maybe even if a happening happens, there will be so much attachment to this state happening that it will not last in this way.

What we are is not a happening. It is our very natural state, which has always been this way and will always be this way. In fact, there is no time for us. There is no concept of time for what I am. You know, because if nothing changes, then how can there be time? So time appears inside me. Space appears inside me. I do not appear inside time and space.

So it is this misidentification with the body/mind, which somehow through some (it must also be a) divine miracle, which has confused the origin of everything. The place where all phenomenon appears from seems to have gotten confused, and started believing that it’s this tiny nothing,… not even a grain of sand in a desert, that that is what I am, that has managed to create this confusion. That must be the leela, you know? They say the leela, or maya; must be this.

Like where the desert is drawn from starts believing that I am a speck of sand in this desert. And then that speck of sand tries to get freedom for itself.

As a speck of sand, you cannot get freedom for yourself. Once you realize that I am that in which the desert is born, then that is freedom.

So it’s like, if you’re expecting a state, maybe once a sand-storm or something comes, and to this speck of sand it seems to be such a beautiful experience, just flying around all over the place. But a sand-storm eventually will settle down, isn’t it? And then it says, “Oh, I’m back.” Because again, we’re identifying with that speck, and not identifying with what we truly are.

So we start with this belief that, “this is my life”. The true position is that life gives birth inside us. But when you start believing that this is the person’s life then we try to manipulate it, steer it in a particular direction, control it in some way. And then when things work out, we feel like, “Hey, I did something.” When things don’t go according to plan, then we say, “What is happening? Why does this always happen to me?” without ever investigating “Who is this me, really? Who is this person? Whose life is this?”

And the mind will resist, especially if you’re in the first satsang, the mind will resist and say, “But isn’t this too abstract? Isn’t this too difficult to understand? What is the practical value of this?” And actually it is the most practical thing.

Like somebody said the other day, “I don’t want to talk about this. I want to talk about ground reality.” So, there is no other ground. This is the ground, what we are talking about. This is as much of a ground reality as anything can ever be.

So, don’t get convinced with this mind resistance which says that “this is such a difficult concept, or this is not real, this is not the real world.”  The mind tries to convince us that this is not the real world and that our day to day world is the real world. It makes us believe that satsang is just a once in a week, once in two weeks type occurrence; and it’s something nice, and you feel a lot of love and joy and peace here, but that the real world is where I go back to. You observe this?

It’s actually not that. What we’re speaking about here is about the true speaking of reality. In fact, that is pure fantasy.  That is pure fantasy, because that is like watching the movie of a person. Because we’ve built a virtual-reality system that is so good that we put on this helmet and it makes us believe that I am the person leading this person’s life. No? And it’s so good a system that everybody forgets that’s not what I really am. And we start believing that this game that is going on, or this movie that is going on, is our true, real position.

But a little bit of inquiry, actually, a little bit of inquiry into “who am I, really?” A little bit of letting go of our thoughts … Because in this virtual-reality system, we seem to have this artificial intelligence system, which seems to be pretending to help us navigate all of this. And that is our mind and our thoughts. And we become so reliant on this commentator or this game that we believe that it is our own voice. But it is never so.

And if we were to let go of our thoughts, just as an experiment for a day, you will see that there is so much; there is so much joy, there is so much love. And naturally. Naturally arising, not due to some yogic practice, or some other forced experience.

So these states are in service to us, actually. We’re not in service to them. They arise as a celebration of your own presence. So we’ve taken something that arises naturally as a celebration of our own presence, and we’ve made it a target; the ego has made it a target for us to achieve. So, if there’s a dropping of all of these targets, then very spontaneously all of these come. And the gods celebrate our freedom then. And this is their prasad for us, actually.

(Silence).

Q:  (recording doesn’t register question)

Ananta: Stature? So what is it? Stature, status and states. Stature is the world’s perception of where we are? That’s what it is? How do you define it?

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: So what is more interesting for me is to look at, “Who can see any of these states?” No? “Who is the one which is aware of all of this, all of this play that is happening?”

Because stature, status or states cannot occur as concepts without there being some phenomenonal being that is taking birth. But who is the one which observes the birth of this phenomenon? So, if you were to keep all three of them aside, then what remains?

So then no state, no stature, no status: then what remains? Because what we are cannot have any stature, or states or status. Because it is so unfathomable to the mind that it cannot create any concept around it. Therefore the mind cannot find it.

Just like, somebody used this example: just like the reflection cannot understand what it is reflecting. Just in the same way, the mind cannot understand what we truly are. So as long as we keep referring to the mind to give us an answer about what we are, it will throw more and more concepts to us, and say, “Let me offer this to you. Maybe this is what you are.” No? But just like a concept, even if the mind said that “you are God himself”, it’s not helpful. Because it’s just replacing one concept, “I am a person” with another concept, “I am God.” In what way is it helpful then?

There are some situations that in life…, some suffering comes, or they still make us suffer. Then the concept does not help us, in fact it makes it worse. Because it will be like, “How can all this be happening to God?” You said, “You are consciousness itself.”  So, “How could all this be happening to God? I am the creator of everything.”  So, you can immediately sense that it’s coming from a mind place. And if you were to drop all of these concepts, then what remains is truly something. I was going to call it gold dust, but even gold dust cannot compare to that.

But something initially will say that, “I’m so used to carrying this heavy load.” See, the logic of it is completely warped actually. It says, “I’m so used to carrying this heavy load, so that seems to me to be my natural state.” and “You ask me to keep it down, but I’m missing it so much that I want to carry it again.” So therefore it is not dropping it, therefore it is carrying it. Even the word implies that. Dropping cannot be effort. No dropping is just in dropping. The carrying is what takes the effort. But since we’re habituated to carrying something..

You know, it’s like when we finish our exams, then we feel, like, in a strange state. Like, you know, “I should be studying” or something like that. It’s like that, no?  My son is sitting here, so that’s why this example is coming. So when the exams get over, then immediately for a day or two we feel strange, that I should be studying, something should be there. Similarly when we drop this mind, then we’re looking for something to latch onto, because it feels a little strange and unsteady. But if you can bear the unsteadiness for a day or two, it is very beautiful.

It is very beautiful. And you’ll see that life has so much beauty. It unfolds in such a beautiful way. And we try to control it and restrict it in some way, or steer it. All of that will be lost. It will unfold so beautifully when we’re just watching it.

Maybe we bought some very high priced tickets to see this movie, and it was seeming so real, that we got so involved in it that we stopped enjoying it. So, don’t waste your money, don’t waste your high priced tickets. Just know that you’re watching the movie, and you see what a beautiful movie it is.  (Silence)

What convinces us that I am this person? What convinces me that I am just this piece of flesh and the energy patterns like thoughts that come to me? And the mind says, ”But what happens to my life?” Just try it out and see what happens to the mind.

Mooji jokes about this and even this time he joked about it;  nobody who has attained self-realization then goes on to regret it. No? Nobody says, “I want that back – I want the ego back”. Nobody says, “I want the struggle of being a person back”. And yet before it happens the mind always says, “But what’s going to happen to my life?” There must have been a few at least that must have then said, “I got self-realization but I don’t want it”? There is nobody like that.

The only happy people are the ones that understood that they are not happy people. All the others are just temporarily dependent upon life situations for happiness. They are dependent upon the appearances that appear in front of them for happiness. And no appearance lasts. So either one happens: either the appearance goes away, or we get tired of the appearance and want it to go away. But there is nothing that appears before us – except perhaps the appearance of the presence of the Guru – which doesn’t go away or we don’t want it to go away. So how can we make our happiness dependent upon these fleeting appearances?

The easiest thing in the world seems to be to not do anything. Isn’t it? Can there be an easier thing in the world? So why are we unable to do the easiest thing in the world? And yet we want to do many more hard things. Because there’s a belief that, “to find myself, I have to do a lot of hard work, an effort or something must be needed”. Because that’s what we have read in our books. He did so many thousand of years of sadhana standing on one leg and God appeared in before him and said “thathastu”.

I am not saying that sadhana is not required or is not good, but if sadhana becomes an end in itself, then the seeking itself becomes our journey itself. And we get so attached to the seeking identity, and then we are still stuck in some way.

So if somebody here still believes that they are not free, then let us look at the objection coming from the mind and tackle it and expose it today and finish it off. Is there an expectation of an experience? Because it is completely clear to me that if something is true and real, then it must always be true and real and hence must be present right here, right now.  If the self would be hiding somewhere in some cave, that we have to run there to find it, then it cannot be the True Self. It must be present here and what takes away from the Here is what we need to look at.

So can somebody say that I am not the self right here, right now? Unless we refer to the mind, nobody can say that. The mind will say, “But your head has not exploded yet” or “Something has not happened”. What explosion will make you believe that you are the Self? Maybe we will define it today. What needs to happen today to convince you? Because if it is the idea that it is this constant state of being blissed-out, I can tell you it’s pure imagination.

Bliss will appear in service to you. So what are we waiting for really? This. what is here right now, is IT. In the moment, without interpretation from the mind: this is it.

So if the mind is telling you “This is not it”, then you have two voices: one is the voice that is coming from here (the heart region) telling you that “This is it”, and the second coming from the mind telling you “This is not it”. It is sort of your choice to believe which voice you want.

So referring to the words in satsang, referring them to the mind, is like referring Einstein’s words to a first year student of science. He has no idea.  And yet that’s what happens in satsang all the time. We are still looking at the words that come and think, “What do I feel about this?” without realizing the “I” that is being referred to is still the mind. You are looking at the “I”. “Yes, yes, I agree. No, no, I don’t.” Still who is that? And where is the yes and no coming from? Still comes from the mind, no?

So Einstein is talking about the Theory of Relativity and the first year student is still talking about Newton’s First Law of Motion.

So what that means is that if there is openness, these won’t take any time to erupt inside you. If you are still creating this small gate of the mind through which they must pass, then that becomes a big bottleneck.

Why do we trust the mind so much? If the mind was so great then none of us would be in satsang. It is because we found that the mind does not have answers that we come to satsang.  Then what joy is it to give the answers that are coming also, to give them to the mind? Does it help?

The mind will convince us that you have to understand this; which means that “I the mind” must understand this, which will never happen. It can happen to the extent that it can be an intellectual understanding, and at some level that is useful as well, but many, many times it is found as well that an intellectual understanding just becomes a spiritual ego if it is restricted just to a spiritual understanding. And if it is the real battle of Kurukshetra, then the strongest warrior on the side of the ego would be the spiritual ego. The spiritual ego must be Karna.  So then what should we do now?

If I were to say, “nothing”, the mind would not be satisfied with that answer. “Because if I do nothing then how does my life change? Because I am here because I want my life to change”.  But what we are working on is the belief that it is “your” life.

And what does seem to happen sometimes…, there seems to be so much clarity in the satsang hall, no? When we are talking in satsang it seems all clear, because somehow in the fire of satsang, in the fire of presence, the mind seems to lose its ___, maybe it goes into hiding and says, “Right now is not a good time, I’ll catch you later”. But in reality nothing changes. Even if you leave the satsang. Because this satsang is not real. Life itself is real satsang.

And the presence where these words are coming from is always, always available to us.

So who here feels that they are not free? Don’t be embarrassed, its okay. Who feels they are not free?

And who feels that they are completely free?

So for the ones that believe you are not free – what is your concept of freedom? What does freedom mean?

Because if it is like, “I know that I am a millionaire because being a millionaire means having a million dollars in the bank”. So when I say that “I am not free”, what does freedom mean for you?

This is also for the people who are watching online – if you believe that you are not free then we need to define: what does freedom actually mean for you?

And once that is defined, then we can see whether we can get there, what stops us from getting there, if there is a “there” that we need to get to.

Pride, attachments, doubts – all these exist, that’s what you’re saying. Because all these still exist, hence I must not be free. You get caught up in them.

So when we say that we get caught up in these what it actually means is that… let’s take pride. We get a thought that ‘I’m so good at something’ and immediately our attention goes to it, and it gets our belief and hence we say pride arose.

But if the thought had come, and we did not give it our attention and belief, then it would have been just another thought that came and went and nothing even registers it.

So as long as we are reliant on the mind for some meaning in our life then we will get stuck, when in actuality we are seeming to be stuck in this but “we” are not stuck in this; but the play of personhood, that gets stuck in this, isn’t it?

So even the attachment is seen by you and the one that is seeing it is completely unattached always, isn’t it? You have seen that. It is clear.

Therefore, once we lose that intention, that although I have seen what is true but now I should fix the life of this person, then automatically it will start getting fixed.

So what I was saying was that once we’ve had glimpses of our own reality, then immediately the mind says, “You’ve seen what reality is, now let’s make the life of this ‘person’ better”. And “Now that I’ve seen reality – I should not feel attached, I should not feel pride, I should not feel guilt, I should not feel any of this”. No? So we are falling into another trap. The minute we say, “I have seen what is real, that all of this is just appearing and disappearing in front of me, let it come and let it go”, then automatically it will get fixed. If you do it with the intent to fix it then that is a trap. Because the intent to fix it makes you believe that you are the person again. Isn’t it?

So it’s very tricky that way. So not one thought you should believe. Because any thought will convince you that you are a person first.

(Silence)

We have a question from Vaghish (am not sure if am pronouncing that correctly), (reading from internet question). He says,

Q: “Dear Ananta, I am so much attached to the feeling of bliss that when it is lost, it feels frustrating. It feels I am lost. Please give light on this – much love”.

Ananta: Much love to you too.

Everything, everything, that appears must go. Nothing that appears will stay. So feelings of intense bliss, joy, peace – they’re just feelings – they come and they go. So if we start believing that “I must be the person constantly in the state of feeling bliss”, then we have fallen into the mind’s trap again. Maybe there are even better states waiting for us but we want only that. Because we have experienced something and we want only that, trying to control our life; and experiences which actually there is no control over. What appears for us seemingly externally, or appears internally, we have no control over. This might be too much for somebody but the fact is that it is completely true. No?

If we get attached to anything that is appearing in front of us – we are looking at it from a personal perspective and it becomes a desire for us – which at the root of any desire – is a person. So let’s find out first who is attached to the feeling of bliss. Is Awareness itself attached to the feeling of bliss? No. It must have first given birth to this person believing ‘I want this bliss’. It’s like we give birth to our kids and kids want the candy bar and we start believing, ‘I want the candy bar’. It sounds a little bit of a crazy example but it is actually, what is happening in reality, is crazier than this. So we first believe this concept that, “I am this person” and then we spend our entire lives catering to the needs of this person. And who has become happy like this? Nobody!!

And spirituality comes when we get these experiences: blue lights, chakras, bliss, this and that; again becomes another trap. So what was meant to be, in some grand divine design, to be just certificates along the way that you are on the right path ~ then becomes the object of our search itself. “I want only the blue light here” (indicating to the space between the eyes). “It was coming last here, but then it stopped and I am so upset about it.” But whatever you were seeking when the blue light came, it was not the blue light. Stick to the path. Don’t get distracted by all of this; detours.

Anything that is seen is not you. Everything that appears phenomenally cannot be me because I am the one that is seeing all of it. Therefore, if I attach to anything there in the phenomenal world ~ wanting to grab it, hold it, believing I need it ~ that means it is a trap. If I know it is just appearing and disappearing on its own flow, then it is not. So the mind is saying “This is it, this is what you should have, just hold on to that” ~ then that is a trap. Or “You should not have this” is what is appearing for you, “this is not what I want”.

If it is appearing before you, this is what you need. But the mind says, “This cannot be happening to me, this should not be happening to me”. All of this is the opposite side of the same trap. So any desire or aversion are both traps.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: Exactly. That is the point. That is why it is a stronger trap, maybe, than the suffering experiences. Because until going through states of bliss and peace and quiet …, we say, “This is it! Okay! I have found it.”  No? But as soon as we give birth to this belief, to this thought that, “I have found something” or “This is my life” or “This is great”, it is a trap. Because even those are just appearances that come. And you are the watching of all of this, always. You have never left the position of the watching.

Q: Then how do we know ……  ?

Ananta: Which state? The question is this: What is the state?

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: How do we know the feeling that we have is unreal? That is the question.

So first, don’t know that it is unreal. First, know where you are in relation to that feeling. Are you the feeling itself? No.

But there is something that is unreal in the feeling? Yes. Where are you in relation to this awareness?

We can watch. We can slow down actually, it’s a little fast. Right?

So a feeling appears. I’m not the feeling because I’m seeing it. So there is an awareness of this feeling. Now, where am I in this picture? Can we just look and check?

And that answer will show you that, what is real and what is unreal. But that looking is required.

What kind of freedom would it be if it just involved going from one state to the other state? It would be a worthless freedom. Freedom would only be that we are unconcerned with what the state is; completely unconcerned.

So what you are is real, and in relation to that reality, whatever appears cannot be real. But it’s okay. We don’t have to force this definition down your throat. But find out what you are. And then you will tell me that what appears to me seems to be all unreal, and comes and goes. No?

Q: ~~~… is it so bad that…

Ananta: No, no. It’s not a judgment about what it was. But the judgment is about the desire that I should only have that state. So no matter what kind of practice it was, it never will produce that state consistently. So the most potent spiritual practice, initially which seems to be so strong, so strong, you’ll do it every day for, like, three months; at the end of three months, you’ll be like, “Nothing is happening.” Maybe we got so used to the state that it stops affecting us, or the state itself does not arise anymore.

So, what we’re pointing to is to say that whatever state comes, what you are is untouched by it. And that is so much freedom.

But if you are desiring for particular states, then yes, for ourselves, it is this trap. Because no state has ever remained for anyone. Even the greatest sages. If you were to interview them, and not read the other people’s stories about them, if you were to actually go and meet them, they would say that this state came, and this state went. They would say that this state came, and this state went. But the others who are, like, chronicling would always glorify the chronicle, saying, “This Being was in a state of ultimate bliss all the time.” It is a great disservice. Because when you read that, it seems very attractive. And the problem is that you cannot counter it also, because the fact is that there is great bliss here, there is great joy here. But it’s not this blissed-out state all the time. I don’t think the nervous system could handle so much.

So the one who is aware of the feeling, who is that one? Even this feeling of bliss, joy, peace; if you were not aware of it, would it be of any value? Not at all. So, hence, what is important is the awareness of this feeling; the most sublime, the most beautiful feeling.

So, who is the one that is aware of it? Is there a ‘who’ there? Is there a person sitting there who is aware of it?

And don’t believe your mind when it says, “Oh, this is too much hard work to find out”.

It’s the simplest work. But the mind must set some boundaries for this sort of thing, “okay, this was fine, but the rest… I don’t want to go there. It’s not for me.” So we should watch these resistances which come, because it’s a very, very simple question.

If we are aware of it, then: who is that ‘we’ that is aware?

(Silence)

Another way to look at it is to see, “What is it that enjoyed or hated any appearance that came?” So, if there was aversion to something happening in the external environment, there was an awareness even of this aversion, isn’t it? Otherwise you would not know, “I did not enjoy this experience.”  So, like, somebody can go to sleep, and when he wakes up, he’ll know that in here, “I nodded off.” So, even in deep sleep state, there is an awareness that there was sleep, and then you wake up. Otherwise there is like a time loss sort of moment, isn’t it? So you’re aware that even sleep came, and sleep went as a state. There’s nothing phenomenal to report in deep sleep, and hence we say, “there was nothing”. But actually the awareness was still there. Because when he gets up, he will not say, “Hey, what happened?” He knows he nodded off. (Of course, it doesn’t speak much for the satsang we are having, but .. hahaha … it’s okay).

So, take hold of this question today, “Who is aware?” of the bliss, of the aversion, of any state?

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: Yes, yes. It’s the mind’s interpretation, no?

Q: ~~~  ….there should be a way that I can dissect it…

Ananta: So, the interpretation is completely unimportant. In fact the interpretation is what gets us in trouble.

Q:  ~~~ check your happiness feeling…

Ananta: So, just if I were to say, “Check any appearance.” That is good enough for me. But sometimes as a pointing, it is not good enough for you. I mean, what is good enough for you, it is not good enough for everyone.

So what happens is that, I would just say, “Who is aware of any appearance that comes?”

No?

But just to give you clearer direction initially, it’s okay, you felt this way, or you felt this bliss or you felt this thing that, actually, the mind labeled. And we’ve spoken about this also, where it is the mind labeling which causes the problem, right? So, if you’re going to make a public speech, and there is this sensation which is arising inside you; you say, “I’m so nervous”. But if you’re going on a trip, a holiday, (Mooji uses this example), if you’re going on a trip or a holiday then the same feeling could be arising. You say, “I’m so excited to be going for the holiday.” So only the interpretation was different actually. The feeling was very, very similar. So I would rather not have that interpretation or label on it.

Q: My question was..how do I … finding out the sense that something is not real? How should I inquire?

Ananta: It’s very simple. We don’t have to make hard work out of it. We only have to find out who I am. And we don’t have to find out. In that answer who I am, it will all be clear who is you and what is not you. So then the work is not required. Then once you find out who I am, then it is clear as to what I am not. So we don’t have to individually define this I am not.

It is useful in some way. Were you saying that, “neti neti; that this is not me, the world is not me, the body is not me, my thoughts are not me, my emotions are not me, any feeling is not me ~ then what is left?” Yeah, it’s a beautiful inquiry. But if you get into “this computer is not me, this chair is not me” then we could take many lifetimes to just cancel out things.

So we don’t have to say, “Okay, my happy feeling is not me, my sad feeling is not me, my anger feeling is not me, my lust feeling is not me”…all these. Because what happens there is then, “Today I’m going to get rid of my greed. Tomorrow I’m going to get rid of my anger. The day after, I’m going to get rid of my lust”, all of these. Then it makes a project out of this. Another time, you go through the three days, and another one is back, the anger is back. Or the third day, you’re not able to get rid of lust so anger came, “Why are you not able? I got angry after two days.” It doesn’t work like that. Better to bundle everything and throw it out.

(Silence)

(Ananta looks at computer).

Hello, Val. And Rajeesh, if you can tell us, if you’re still there, this answered your question or not?

Here’s another question from Garif. This is Garif from Mumbai; He asks:

Q: I have a question. How to differentiate between “I-ego” and “I” which is the true self?

Ananta: So like Mooji says, the “I” is the chameleon, no? It can take on identities. God says “I am” and the devil says “I am”, the ego says “I am”. So this question is very nice. He says, “How do I differentiate between the “I” which I really am and this ego?”

And the simplest way to do that is to find out what is real, what is true and who am I. Because the ego is not real. It is only an appearance which is in the form of thoughts. It is only the sense that I am an individual person. What is ego? It is only that sense, isn’t it?, that I am an individual person. So once we explore this sense, and say, “Is it true?” or “What is convincing me that I am this person?” we realize that there is something that is aware of this thought that I am this person. And we realize that there is something which is seeing all of this play of phenomenon. And then we can ask, “Am I closer to the seeing of it? Or am I closer to what is being witnessed?”

And we will inevitably come to this conclusion that I am this seeing that is ever experiencing itself; the awareness itself. And what appears hence cannot then be me.

So it is just appearing then it is going.

So let’s look at this in some more detail. What is this person? The person is a construct that is made up of a set of beliefs and concepts, isn’t it? And if you look at our life, these concepts, the thing that I was so clear about 10 years ago that “I am this way”, 10 years later, most of them have gone. So if it can go off like this, then how real can it be?

Is there any other reality to this separate individual idea of personhood than this made-up building blocks of concepts and beliefs?

So look at your beliefs 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and look at your beliefs today. So many would have changed. So many would have changed. So if you were to drop all these beliefs about who we are, then what remains? That is real. These concepts are just concepts. A concept cannot be given validity in this way, isn’t it? It is just a forced validity that we give it. Like a thought came that, “I’m a very, very truthful person.” And it became part of our personality, and we started believing, “I am very truthful.” No? A thought came that, “I am very adventurous.” And I became very adventurous. But if that thought had come, and it had no attention or belief from us, it would have gone. So, the thought, “I am so adventurous” if it had just come and gone without our attention and belief, then it would not have become part of our imagined personality.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: Try to have so much freedom around it that…, just the basic things, because kids, sometimes what happens is that they look for that leadership from their parents. Otherwise they seem to get completely confused about what is going on. So I believe that we can define a broad structure within which, you know, they can operate. But we don’t have to micro-define, like “You must do this, or you must become this and this.”

So, there is no harm in having model values and explaining to them that this is the way the world functions. But when they are at an appropriate age, and hopefully if they start coming to satsang more regularly, they will find that this is the way in which life seems to operate and this is the principles of morality on which the world operates; but this is not something that applies to that which I really am.

Otherwise what can happen is they can very easily be people who claim enlightenment and then say, “Hey, I’m free to have as many women as I want in my life, I’m free to do whatever because all of this applies only to society, it does not apply to me.” So very, very convenient use of Advatic principles.

Therefore my feeling is, with children, we can give them a basic moralistic structure but let’s not go too much into the definition of how their life should pan out or not.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: But the beauty is that we only need to be concerned about where we are coming from. So if you are coming from the place of Self and reality, then intuition will automatically make sure that the right words are coming out of our mouth. No?

So we do not have to be concerned about the other’s journey because life is beautiful; the Universe does not make a mistake and it has perfect timing. So their journey will get played out in the way that it is meant to play out. And every journey is meant towards coming to this Self discovery.

So we just need to be concerned as to “where am I coming from? Am I coming from the place of ego or is this coming from intuition itself; from the place of not-need?” Not from a place of need, not from a place of desire, not from a place of aversion.

It’s all about you, actually. So any situation that we are faced with in life, there is always a pointing for us in that actually.

(Silence)

Deva has a question. She says:

Q: When some resistance comes, I have a feeling of not being free. Is it possible that the mind sends this resistance to take attention back on itself and to distract me? Because this resistance comes out of nowhere. Like it came before satsang began. Not toward the satsang. Mind was saying, “No more satsang for today. Too many satsangs!”

Ananta: Yes, yes, yes. “When some resistance comes, I have a feeling of not being free.” Actually, not when the resistance comes… because anything can come and anything can go. But when the resistance gets our attention and our belief, then we’re sort of trapped in that; although in reality we are not; but the feeling of being trapped in that resistance comes. So it makes us feel that, “I am not free”.

“Is it possible that the mind sends this resistance to take attention back on itself?” Definitely. “…and to distract me?”  Definitely. The mind is the most sneaky. It does not want to give up the rule of itself.

It has no power. Again, we’re taking a lot of examples of children today. It is like a 7 year old. It has no power-over. It is so spoiled now because you’ve given so much attention and belief. It will not want to give it up. So, we’ve just told the mind, “You’re just a 7 year old. Don’t try to tell me stuff.” But the mind says, “No, no, but see, this what I’m saying is true”. So it definitely does not want to give up it’s power over us, and tries to send us some thoughts; especially in these times, when satsang is there, and then it will try to play it’s trump cards. It can be very sneaky.

“Because the resistance comes out of nowhere”. Yes. All appearances come out of nowhere and go back into nowhere. “Like it came before satsang began”, which is that she watched the satsang already with Mooji in the morning, I’m presuming, so she’s feeling that I’ve already had enough dose for today, and I don’t need. Don’t need. It’s true. But I’m so happy you came. That’s good. So it is the mind, and very, very clearly.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: “What is attention made up of?” Beautiful. So, let’s come back to the basics. We say that awareness is all there is. Like in the deep sleep state, awareness is all there is. And I have completely understood that I am that awareness itself. And therefore I am everything that exists. Correct?

Now, if I am awareness as everything, there cannot be anything outside awareness? Correct? Because it is everything. So then when consciousness wakes up, the sense “I am” wakes up, along with that this power of attention and belief also wakes up. So where must it be coming from? It can only be from Awareness itself. Because awareness is everything. So it’s like a form of awareness itself. It’s like water has become ice because it is frozen. So nobody can answer that question, “Why does awareness become consciousness?” Right? It just happens.

But clearly everything is made up only of this awareness. So even attention, which seems to be, like, our most primal power, immediately when Beingness is there the power to give attention or not to give attention seems to be completely there. And the power to identify belief; all these basic powers that come to us come there. Even before I start believing that I am this person, or I am this body/mind, the power to believe must be there, no? So all of this is given birth, is made up of, just this awareness itself.

So in fact Ramana Maharshi (?) used to call it the ‘nomenon’, (I don’t know if I’m pronouncing it correctly), and the ‘phenomenon’. And the phenomenon is also made up of the nomenon itself. It cannot be anything else because that is everything that is.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta:  Attention. A belief is not attention, yes.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: Everything is awareness. Within awareness, when the phenomenonal world takes birth as consciousness, there is a pure seeing. Awareness is just pure seeing or experiencing or perceiving, within which the Being wakes up. Which means that “I am” wakes up. Right? And it is found that immediately then this Being is present. So there was the seeing only earlier, and now there’s a Being also. And the instant that this Being is given birth, there is a power to give attention to all phenomenon that arise within this Being.

Now, to ask for a definition of what is attention, is as for belief to ask for a definition of what is awareness itself. So, in the seeing there seems to be this Being, and then there must be this power to see what arises in the Being itself.

Sorry if I’m losing some people either here or on-line, but the fact is, it’s an interesting question to me.

So, there was this pure seeing within which the Being came up. And there needs to be a power to see phenomenally what is going on, isn’t it? So the power to be able to see these phenomenal objects, or phenomenally what is arising seems to be this attention. So what seems to be awareness as a pure seeing, non-phenomenal seeing, then when the phenomenon is born, there seems to be a phenomenal seeing which can be directed through our attention.

Otherwise there’s just a pure seeing, and then the ability to focus on a phenomenal is my attention. Otherwise there would not be an awareness of the phenomenal without the power to give it attention or not. Right? So that takes care of attention. Now there is belief. There is belief, right? How do I know that it is mine? Now that is much more difficult to describe. It just seems like something where I had this capability to see that this phenomenon is arising, and for me to say, “This is me.” This “me-ness”, this “I-am-ness” being me.

So that is where verbal descriptions are difficult at these levels to get. But there seems to be this ability to believe that this phenomenon which is coming, this phenomenal which is part of me, is part of my life.

It starts from the core root of the belief of “me”. No? And then when this core belief of “me” is there, then the world of duality takes place. Because for the world of duality to exist, it’s always in relation to the “me”, the concept of “me”. No? Everything is arising to “me”. If this “me” is not there, nothing is arising; like deep sleep. Isn’t it? Yeah.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: It’s exactly the same. Because the same powers of attention or of belief exist in the dream as well. When there is phenomenon, when the “I am” wakes up is also the waking up of attention and belief. That comes.

And it must feel concurrent. I mean, if you are interested, this is a beautiful topic. Because it must be concurrent. Otherwise if it was not concurrent….  So there was an awareness, and Beingness was born. If there was not the attention there, even this Beingness would not be noticed, right? So it must be so concurrent. Or even it might be more accurate to say that attention must exist, although not paying attention to something, even before Beingness is born. But at least, what would be valid to say, it is at least born concurrently. Because we cannot say it is born after. Isn’t it? Because if attention is not there then I would not know that I am.

Q: So that means attention itself is awareness.

Ananta: Yes, yes. Everything is awareness. That we verify. Because if everything is awareness, anything that is born must be awareness itself; arising out of it.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta:  For them? Like I cannot say whether you are sentient or not. For me, it’s all about me. It’s one awareness.

So as a separate awareness, as a separate Beingness, it cannot be. Because all that is aware is here, all that is Being is here. And then I hear testimonials from there, I also hear the same thing. Right? But there’s no way for me to validate that.

For me, it seems like there is just one awareness and one Beingness. And all arising, all this including the appearance of these separate Beings, within that itself. The play of consciousness.

As I say, it is all about you actually. Because I am just a body that is appearing in your own consciousness.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: We cannot validate that it is there before that, because there is nothing phenomenal there.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: Okay. So, let’s repeat.  So what we were saying is, “How does attention and belief come about?” Right?

So to experience something phenomenal, we need attention, correct? Without the phenomenal there is a pure seeing which is just aware of itself alone. Now, when the “I am” gives birth, then there’s a power to see that the “I am” gave birth; before the attention is there concurrently with that. Because if it is later, then it will only be seen later, you know? That doesn’t make sense. So, either it must be present before, or, what we can definitely say is, at least before it is given birth.

(Silence)

(Is everybody logged off now? Oh, we increased, it went from 12 to 16).

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: What is your question, just tell me if I have understood it correctly? The great sages, they knew the truth. But yet they wrote some things that were so called practical daily life things, no? It’s true. So it is like when you’re speaking with somebody in kindergarten and you tell them about something which is in the 10^th standard, there will be complete closed-ness to that, no? But you then lead them along a particular path, right? So you say, “First you understand this, then you understand this; first you understand about Newton and his laws of physics. Once you’ve understood that, then maybe you can look at some other scientist. You’ll have some help to tell us which scientist, but Einstein will come a lot later”. Because the kid will not be able to relate to the theory of relativity. The theory of relativity will not make sense to them.

So that is why even if you take Ramana Maharshi, if you look at the book, “Be As You Are”, he starts with the pure Self, just saying that, “You are this.” So if you understood that, then you don’t need to read about self-inquiry. So he starts in the opposite way; to talk from the self perspective, then talk about self-inquiry, then talk about meditation, then talk about mantra chanting and things like that.

So most books, mostly in our tradition, they are the other way around. They start with a basic practice. Then you start with the next level, then you start with the next level, then you start with the next level. No? So when our sages wrote for the masses, then they would write about…, because the masses were interested in, “How do I have a peaceful life? How do I be happy?” The concept of self-discovery is not of interest. So somebody says, “Don’t listen to the mind”, they’re just going to put it away. But if somebody says, “Do meditation for 20 minutes, use this particular mantra” or something like that, it gives them a glimpse of reality, and sort of loosens the hold of the mind. So am not against any of these practices actually – because even in this case there were a lot of practices that happened and things like that, that loosened loosen the grip of the mind to some extent. Because the inquiry ‘who am I’ would not have taken place unless I had done the sudarshan kriya, unless I had done the pranayams, unless I had done the hatha yoga.

But that was just the journey that this body/mind had to, seemed to have to undertake, right? But if somebody had to come to me at that point and say, “just ask who am I?”..(I would have said, “what are you talking about?. There was no openness to that. So sometimes a basic practice helps us in creating the openness.

And I really believe that every expression of the guru has a different mode of expression, has a different audience even. So somebody who does not have any openness to self-discovery or inquiry, they will find it pure torture to be here in this satsang.

Pure torture!! That’s why I really appreciate people who come for the second time. Because the first time can be really torturous for the mind. There is nothing here for the mind, there is no offering here for the mind.

But that is the way it flows, it is not designed this way that I will speak only in this way. It just flows this way. And if I were to prepare and speak in a particular way then it would not flow at all. It would not come from here (indicating the heart).

So it just seems to me that there is a belief that if these words are coming out like this here then there must be some resonance at least with somebody in the room.  And if the words of the sages came in those ways, then am sure those were useful for the lives of those Beings that read those words.

But eventually all paths will lead to the dissolution of the idea that I am a separate individual person. Right? So when you talk about karma yoga it is about selfless service and you get so used to that selfless service that the construct of ego is forgotten, the concept that I am a separate person is forgotten. You take Bhakti Yoga, and you are so devoted to the God, so devoted to even the form, even if it is Advaita; then you are so devoted then the concept of what is happening to me or this person is again forgotten. So eventually all the paths lead to the same egoless discovery that I am the One Awareness itself.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: Its like….Mooji also cites this example…that after seeing all of this, Arjun’s question, (I don’t know in which Chapter…maybe you can clarify), Arjun’s question in this chapter was “Can you show me your real form?” and that must be such a disappointing question for Krishna at that point.

Because he wanted that form and maybe he was ready just for that form only. Because the form, no matter how magnificent, is not me, no?

Q: Chapter 10, The opulence of the Divine.

Ananta: Chapter 10, The opulence of the Divine. (Am repeating for the online audience).

Yes, yes. Sometimes you have to give these kind of examples to reel the mind in, no? He will attract by exaggerating, by saying, “You could be jobless for millions of years”. And somebody used to say, “Why does he love saying “millions of years?”….”You could be without a job for millions of years….but find yourself now. That is more important.” Sometimes they use exaggerations because they wake the person up in some way.

Q: You asked us at the beginning of Satsang, “What the definition of freedom would mean to me?” At the time I didn’t have a response, was undecided, but it came to me over the course of this satsang, listening to what you shared, that if all concepts are gone, then what would remain would be freedom.

Ananta: If all concepts are gone, then that is freedom. Yes. “Not there yet”, she says. Now?

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: Then what is not there yet? Is that a prediction or is it a report from the past.

Q: It’s a report from the past.

Ananta: So now, it’s not there? Concept is not there or you are not there?

Q: Now what is there is concept-free.

Ananta: Concept-free. Wonderful!! So now, don’t pick any concept up. That’s it. It cannot get any easier.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: So that’s why when we discussed also last time, we were saying, “As what, as  what must you have free will? Correct. As a person, it’s an imagined concept. Therefore an imagined concept cannot have anything at all, forget free will, no? Everything is a play of consciousness. It’s completely free to create anything; it appears and it disappears. So if you say, “I am consciousness itself. I have free will”. You have complete free will, I will not dispute that. But if you say as a person, “I have any will”, then I will dispute that because I will say, “show me the person first”. Awareness is not bothered about any of this, it is not bothered, right? So free will only comes, that true will, is only with consciousness. Because it is only creating all of this play. So if you truly understood that, “I am that I am”, then complete free will is yours.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: What will you want to create? It will not be created from any desire, right? It’s true. That is complete freedom, but who can get this? Because most people only hear that part that, “As a person I don’t have freedom”, and they go, “whoa”. But the fact is that the person does not exist. It is only an imaginary concept. And an imaginary concept cannot have any will.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: If you know that you are God, then you have complete will to do whatever you want. If you believe that you are a person, you show me evidence of that person first before you talk about what all you have. So if you are saying, “As a person I have free will” my question is, “first show me the person”. Because otherwise the mind will try to convince about a lot of things which are done with free will or without free will. Easier is to say, “Show me the person first before you show me your possessions”. So once it is clear that the person itself was only imagined, then to talk about a person’s free will is the second level of illusion, isn’t it? Or delusion.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta: It’s like in the Yoga Vashisht when they talk about the ‘100^th son of a barren woman in the King’s dream, then they are talking about free will like that. Illusion, illusion. It’s true.

Did you all hear that example where Mooji was talking about in one of the satsangs: ‘The mind wants me to give you a practice’. (I am paraphrasing). He says ‘the mind wants to give you a practice. So if I said do these push-ups and with every push-up, turn one side and say om namah shivaya, and turn the other side and say om namah shivaya…the mind is very happy you have something to do now’.

If I say, There is nothing to do, just drop all of this” ~ its like it’s not satisfied.

Q: [Inaudible]

Ananta:  It’s a good example, that Darshan too, which is that…, when you go to a doctor and doctor says, “You are okay”, the patient is usually very disappointed because he wants some diagnosis, something to do, some medicine. Very good, excellent example. It’s the same thing I am saying “You are the self”. But the mind is saying, “No, no,..what do I need to do to be the self?”

“You are only the Self.”

“But I have not realized it yet.” Drop the one that is trying to realize something and you are only the Self.

Q: What is trapped?

Ananta: Say it again. “What is trapped and what is not trapped?” We spoke about this?

Oh. “What is a trap for mind’s trap”. Yes, yes, yes.

So, all that appears and disappears cannot be me because it just arises and falls. When the mind tries to tell us that we need this for some reason, or we should not have this in our experiencing, then all of those are traps. If we give in to any of this,  we are bound by this concept that “I should have only bliss” or “I should not have pain”, “I should have only joy” , “I should not have anger”. All these are then traps.

So any concept around a phenomenal appearance is a trap. It’s as basic as this.

Good for today? Does somebody want to sing? Or do we play something from youtube and then we can sing along or something like that?…

Oh, Naveen is also here. Hi Naveen.

Thank you everyone for joining us on-line as well. We are closing satsang now. We will be playing a bhajan so you are welcome to stick around.

So much love to all of you.

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