What Can We Rely on To Make a True Report About Our Self? - 2nd September 2022

Now I'll tell you what more spiritual seekers are doing, what most of us may be doing, is that suppose the mind is the thief and we want to catch it. We try to call the thief and say, 'Please tell me, how do I catch you?' And if that was the nature of the beast, that it will help in that way, then we could have done that. But what have we definitely noticed about the mind? The more—which is it?—the more it runs. Self-preservation seems to be in the design of the mind. Otherwise, on the noticing itself that the mind is the ATM machine causing all this misery here, then we could just shut it off and say, 'I don't want you anymore.' But that is not the design of the mind, is it? It wants a piece of self-preservation.

So if the mind is the source of ignorance and self-preservation is part of its design, then how useful is it to call this thief and say, 'Can you please tell me your address because I'm done with you, I want to catch you'? What do you feel is going to happen? You see, have you met a thief like that? Call the thief and it says, 'Yes, yes, I'm waiting for you to catch me. Come, here I am. Okay, I'm the one doubling you, catch me.' It doesn't do that. Instead, what does it do? It says, 'I didn't do anything. It's your feelings, it's your relationships, it's not me. It's all of that. I'm your friend. I'm trying to help you. I am trying to help you here. I am being helpful and you're accusing me.' This is the complaint from the mind.

So all of spiritual seeking is driven by projects that we have received from where? If you see that, then that is the end of the journey. So what does the thief do instead? When you're close to catching the thief, it creates diversion. 'If this is the problem, the partner is the problem, your anger is the problem, your lust is the problem, all this is the problem. I'm just your friendly neighborhood guide to this spiritual mystery. I will help you through this.' So when I ask you this question, 'How do you know?', I feel it is of primary importance. When you say that 'my trouble is this, I had an experience three weeks ago but I can't stay in it because I keep oscillating,' how do you know? Is it not the thief telling you its address? So how do you know? It's very important to contemplate this. And once you know like this, once you know from the mind, what happens? What do you take yourself to be? Take yourself to be an object in time and object in space. Where are you without that? What is your location?

So contemplate. And contemplate does not mean that you think about it. Contemplate means keep this question in your heart and let the answer emerge. What is driving your spirituality? If the attempt is to be free from ignorance, then can you ascertain that it is not being driven by ignorance itself? So I'm giving you some of this context so when I ask you 'How do you know?', you don't get super irritated. You have some sense of where it is coming from. It's fine. Let's go to Mahesh.

Hello. Um, listening to you, I just feel like I don't know what to do and I don't know if I need to do anything. And I just felt to raise my hand just to, yeah, to open up the opportunity if you see or hear, you know, something that you can, you know...

Yes, yes, thank you. Thank you. So yeah, let's start with this. I feel like it's good enough to start with this. So you said, 'I don't know what to do next' or 'I don't know what to do anymore' after listening to you, you see. Now, do you know this?

No, it's just like a feeling.

Is it a feeling? I'm going to use this and thank you, thank you for starting like this because this is classic mind diversionary tactic. It will see, 'It's not me, it's a feeling.' There's a feeling. Does the feeling say 'I don't know' now, or does the feeling say 'I do know'? No. Is feeling a source of knowledge in that way?

Now, and even to use the words that I used, I was just kind of looking for some way to try to explain that when I looked within, there was no kind of direction that seemed to be calling or, you know, there was no idea of a direction that would be good to go in or not good to go in. Or there's just no idea of what would be good, what would be not good. I really don't know.

Yes, yes. So right now, when you look quote-unquote 'within', is the absence of direction leading to a feeling of being lost or the idea of being lost?

No. If I believe a thought that I need to know a direction, I need to have a direction, that can lead to... like when I kind of check in or connect in with this idea of 'I need to know something' or 'I need to do something', then a bit of panic, this kind of tension comes up. But only if I connect in with that.

Okay, okay. Let's go a bit slower. So empty of this, empty of this conceptual direction about what you should do and not do, is it? Now the mind will propose that this is an unintelligent state. It will propose that it is an unintelligent state and therefore then we need to find some balance between using the mind and not using the mind, you see. That's a proposal that will come from the mind. It will say, 'But without me, you can't run this life. You need it for quote-unquote practical reasons.' Or it will say that, 'Yes, yes, all of this is fine for spirituality or the discovery of the truth, you see, but you can't run your life like this.'

And I won't ask you then that if the sharing of satsang can happen from this heart knowledge, then why can't the rest of your life be also run from that? And all that we see around us, the whole functioning of this universe, if it can be run with this intelligence of the heart, then why is it that running our life is a problem?

Yeah, there is just a thought that if there's not some mind strategy in place and in practice, that activities that seem to require the mind, like tour guiding for example...

So let's pause here. Because how come the mind is not needed for the sharing of satsang, but it is needed for tour guide? Because the sharing of satsang is about what is always. Yes, we cannot say, 'Mahesh, you're wearing a nice shirt today,' you see. For that I need to use the mind. Is that the idea? The shirt is not permanent. It is not about what is; it is in the realm of perception. So intuition is incapable of guidance or of moving in this realm of perception? Is that the notion?

And yet—sorry, I know the city of framing some words—and yet when we find the, let's say, the best sportsman, the best scientist, all of them say that, 'I don't know what happened for a few minutes. I was empty of mind, I was in the zone,' is it? And that's right, I perform at my highest. Many have reported that. I don't want to see this often because then we will look at that as some sort of a cheat code to life or try to get some special powers or something like that. That's not the idea.

So if all these ones who are operating in what we call worldly stuff also report that when they are empty of mind stuff, in the no-mind, that is when the highest discoveries come to them or the highest movement happens through them. Yeah, and that tour guiding or the sharing of playing football or becoming a school teacher, all of for all of that we need to refer to ourselves as this limited object and from that reference point only can all of that happen? Isn't that itself no-mind attack, a mind of diverse? It is an idea that seems to want to be believed without proof. Tell me what your heart is in that.

All of these words are just ripples on the surface of a deep unmoving ocean of Self.

And look at that. Instantly, you know, suddenly you went from sounding like somebody to sounding like a straw or something. Okay, seems to be one core idea of no. Now tell me again what your heart is saying.

Not saying anything.

What is the difficulty in living like this?

Oh, I don't want to say the thing that's coming to say because it's a thought. I don't get paid to be like this.

You may still get paid or not, I don't know. I don't know about that. In fact, there is no way that you can predict. You may become the best tour guide or the worst, being in the heart. That's a risk we have to take. Thank you. So 'How do you know?' is a very important question to use. If you just conclude on the basis of some mental construct, then it's just leading you down the garden path. Thank you. And I've given you the master key to be intuitive. How can you ensure that you're being intuitive? Then who you are is apparent to you. You're being intuitive and not mental, and who you are is apparent to you. You mean intuitive? All of life is already functioning from here. Like you said, on the surface, the ripples on the surface, you see, can seem to make these signals that they are running themselves. It's not true.

Thank you. It's about time. Okay. Oh yeah, there's nothing left to talk about then. What can I say? This is just not true. If the trees can grow and the birds can clap and the fish can swim without the mind, then this body can also speak if that is the way of the heart. Thank you. Very good. Thank you. Let's go to Elena. You don't hear us? No. Can we come back to you? Let's go home. So again, hello. Can you hear me well?

Yes, hello. Hello. Well, yes, I wanted to check in with you. Yes, I have been inquiring on, yeah, basically on thoughts, let's say on the validity of thoughts. And yes, I'm on what they actual...

Trees can grow and the birds can clap and the fish can swim without the mind. This body can also speak if that is the way of the heart. Thank you, very good. Thank you. Let's go to Illinois. You don't hear us? You know, can we come back to you? Let's go home. So again, hello. Can you hear me well? Yes, hello, hello.

Well, yes, I wanted to check in with you. Um, yes, I have been inquiring on, yeah, basically on thoughts, let's say, on the validity of thoughts and what they actually can tell about me or about my past or future—if I have a past or if I have a future, actually—because it seems that it's only thoughts and the imagination. Yes, and yeah, also the idea of me. Yeah, all the ideas, actually. I heard just ideas. And then maybe what I wanted to check is, yeah, but it's also an idea that it seems that the thoughts come and there is some identification with them. And maybe the idea that I'm going back to if I still identify, you know? It's, yeah, this is... the mind is using it like, 'You see, you still have anxiety' or something. And yeah, I can observe that also.

How do you know all this is happening? Is it not the thief who's whispering the thief's address in your ear? Sorry, is it not the thief who's whispering the thief's address? Yes. And how much to trust that thief? Is it? And what I'm pointing you to may seem like it's a very simple instruction. So how do you know? You see, but this is to come to the end of time. It is to come to that space where all the conceptual emotions are swept away. And does it mean that you are left in a perceptionless space necessarily? No. But you're left, in fact, fully in view of your perception, or your perceptions are fully in your view, because you are not distracted so much by the mind stuff. So even the play of your manifest aspect is fully enjoyed as you open and empty in this way.

So where can we go for a true report about ourselves? You must find that. Okay, if we need a report, then we might as well go to the true place. It is not the mind, because it is always proposing a limitation—how we are the body. That is the central construct, the body-mind, is it? If the mind is proposing that, and all of its proposals are in that context, in that reference of being somebody, then where can we go for a true answer? And you know what the good news is? This emptying of the mind and the true answer is there with you. You may not be able to squeeze that answer into your head always. Sometimes you may be able to express it; your mouth may be expressing it, you see. Sometimes it seems to ripen or show up in the manifest; sometimes it cannot show up in the manifest. And either way, it is fine, but you are not lost.

Always the highest knowledge is always inexpressible, including love, truth, joy. Did you enjoy the music because this note came and then this note came and then that note came? Is that why I enjoyed it? No. I played a Bhajan which most of you did not understand the language, and yet most of you were swaying this way. And you don't have to like them, but mostly understanding like that, you see. So what is it? Was it the words? Did you understand the words? Was your mind able to fathom the words and that is why you enjoyed it? No. This is a joy which is empty of that and pure for need of conceptual understanding.

So don't have this idea that without the mind I am lost, because it is not true. That is not your experience anyway. But then if you are not lost—in fact, if you are found—then what is the reason, what is a good reason to believe the motions of the mind? So we have taken out two of the main things, isn't it? One is that I can't do my practical work without the mind. Second is that without the mind there can be no words or I can have no report about myself, I am lost. Neither are true. Because if it was true, then we would not put their photos—the ones who have become rested in the no-mind—you would not put up their photos on the wall. You would send them to madhouses or something.

So actually, in the world when they decide, 'No, that this one has lost their mind,' it is not like that. They've not lost their mind; it is too much mind. If you notice their expression, they're just believing everything the mind is saying, you know? So they may be repeating it out loud and things like this. So this is not losing your mind; this is actually just taking only the mind to be here. But the ones who come into the unborn, come into the no-mind, they discover the presence of God in their heart. The highest being in the universe is your presence. And that reality is so simply apparent to you that all notions of effort sound nonsensical.

I want to tell you all one thing: that the graduation of the spiritual seeker is the spiritual ego. The graduation of the spiritual seeker is to the spiritual ego. The emptying yourself from spiritual seeking is the discovery of God. So don't try to help me, don't try to help the 'me' in your journey. And the product of your inquiry should not be something that you can use to make progress. You can change everything I'm saying because that is the whole method of spirituality, but who are we trying to help in this process? Without a report about anything at all, you meet someone on the street and they say, 'What's up?' So where will you answer that from? 'How's life? How are things with you?' What is it? Where can we go for the true answer? It seems like the most obvious question everybody asks, but the answer is not that straightforward. What's happening? Nothing has ever happened.

And without a determination about what is true in your current state, how will you decide what to do next? 'This is my problem, this is my obstacle.' But without that determination, how will you decide what to do next? And where is that determination coming from? The mind is telling you maybe, you know, that 'I'm very good at this and this' or 'My temperament is for this, my temperament is not for this.' And if this is the thief, if you feel like it's giving you the right direction next, there's nothing you can do from the head. Nothing. That whole thing is hopeless. No tactic, no strategy, no plan. Not even 'no tactic, no strategy, no plan' because that can become the new plan. Nothing. Nothing that your mind can fathom. Nothing here. You mean God? Yeah. Your very presence is the presence of God. Your Atma is Brahman. They are not two. That is a fundamental principle.

Who do you all feel like? Whose presence is it? They say 'I am.' Who is that? Somebody who was born in your mother's womb? Who is this that you say 'I am' before you say 'I am body, I am man, I am husband, I am wife'? Before you say all of that, you say 'I am.' Who is this 'I am'? This is the treasure that you are looking for. You cannot find this treasure with any effort. It's very simple. It's very simple. You can't find it with effort. So if I told you I lost my mobile phone, how will you look for it? Thank God. And then if you call, what are you waiting for? The ring. So you'll perceive. Or if you say, 'Okay, it's on silent,' how will you look for it? Search. No, how will you search? You look for the shape of the phone, the quality of the phone, the thing. And you can then say, 'Okay, this is an Apple phone or a Samsung phone' based on the quality of the shape, the size.

Now, can we look for God in that way? Can we look for yourself in that way? So if you can't look for yourself in that way, you see how many of us are looking for an experience? Yeah, you're looking for the... everything that you perceive comes and goes and is not real. Okay, so if the Self cannot be searched for like we can search for a mobile phone, then maybe you can just think about it and solve it, like what is 27 into 24? So then what is God? Can we compute it like that? What is Brahman? You cannot find that. That's why one of my favorite lines is from Tulsidas Ji where they said, you may think and think and think a hundred thousand times, but God will never be found as a product of your thinking.

So then we are in trouble because we cannot find it through perceiving. We cannot search for it like we can go to mountains and we can go to rivers—and you can do all of that stuff for fun—but you will not find God as a perception there. At best, it may make the mind a little quieter, you see. So you may set the stage for the discovery, but going to anything or going physically anywhere is not going to make you bring a perception of that which is unperceivable. And thinking about it, trying to solve it conceptually, is not going to do it. Then what do we have? And what method of seeking remains with us that we can use?

So you can't see it, hear, smell, taste, touch. You can't think, you can't imagine, you can't try to remember. All of these faculties are gone. You can't even feel, because the feeling will also be a perception and every feeling also comes and goes. So every faculty is gone that way. Now, are we lost? So when I ask you, 'Are you aware now?' which faculty are you using to confirm your awareness? That you are actually the witnessing of all of this perception? When I ask you if you are that, you confirm, 'Yes, I am witnessing all of this.' With what faculty do you confirm? I'm not asking how the words will come out, even though that is questionable, but I'm saying with which faculty is the confirmation of you as awareness, or your awareness—whatever way you want to look at it—with what faculty is it made? That is the neglected faculty of self-knowledge.

And it seems like in the world we take refuge in self-knowledge only after we've exhausted ourselves with every other faculty. Because there is one problem for the mind with this faculty of intuition, which is that the product of intuition you cannot put in your narratives, because you cannot insert the third word into the story. Okay, if you knew that there is nothing in it for me... you see, when I say you can't put it into a narrative, which sounds like a small problem, 'No, I don't want to put it in,' you see, there's nothing in it for that one who's even saying 'I don't want anything in my story.' That one, there's nothing in it for you. It is the absence of the false that is ignorance. The absence of the ignorance is the discovery of the Self. Or the absence of ignorance is the absence of the 'me' that wants to become free also.

There's only one way to come to the discovery. There's only one path, and that path is pathless. It doesn't mean you need a guy clicking on that thing, empty of all paths. Whatever path you may have taken, your discovery will always be without the mechanics, without a set of steps, without a process. For that, it is confused. Because what am I saying you have to do? You have to go clicking all day? That can't be it. What mechanics do you need to be empty of mechanics? Like when I say mechanics, I'm talking about a mechanical process: step one, step two, step three. Even step one in itself. So if your contemplation is laden with trying to help the spiritual seeker to get freedom, then your actual process is just going from spiritual seeker to spiritual ego. So chop it all up right now. Finish. Okay, let's go to Pablo.

Hi, Master. Hello. I need a Spanish translator, please. Yes, it's my first satsang. Emotional, very touched, very moved. I can't believe it. My question is about suffering. When I am in the heart, I can let the suffering come out and express itself and move in this space. And the third one, when I cannot do either of these ones and the mind is stronger, I don't do anything. I just suffer and I move with my suffering. Can we talk a little bit about that?

Okay, so are you in spirituality only to be free from suffering?

I can't believe it. Yeah, my question is about suffering. When I cannot do either of these ones and the mind is stronger, I don't do anything. I just suffer and I move with my suffering. Can we talk a little bit about that?

Okay, so are you in spirituality only to be free from suffering? Not to discover yourself or find God? None of the other reasons also?

Yes. Is it that we want God so that then I can be free from suffering, or we want God and then we are not concerned about what is the state of this human life? I realized that when I attached myself to the world, there is pleasure but there is also suffering, and only in the 'I am' am I in peace.

So is it so that you want to enjoy the pleasure of the world but not experience the pain of the world, and therefore you're looking for God to help you with that?

In my previous search, I came from looking for pleasure and satisfaction, but then little by little that was being removed. Then I realized that, as Saint Teresa of Avila says, only God is enough. God for God's sake.

This will make all the difference, you see. This question will make all the difference. So if you had to live a life but feel no pain, or if you had the choice to find out the truth, the absolute truth, but experience the life of pain and pleasure, what would you pick?

Sorry Father, can you speak in shorter sentences?

So if you had two choices, options: First choice is that you can live a life but you experience no pleasure, no pain. Or you can find the truth but experience a life which is both pleasure and pain. What would you pick?

The second one. Yes, there's no other alternative, and it's not me who is looking.

What if you had the full power, there was an alternative, and it was fully your choice?

I look for God.

Now, if you come to the discovery of God and still experience pain, would you be okay with that?

Yes, sincerely, I think so.

Otherwise, what will happen is that the 'me' will be guiding your entire spiritual process. 'Oh, this inquiry works for me. You know, the invitation works for me.' But all of these things are not meant to help the 'me' but to be rid of the 'me'. So if you keep listening to what the mind wants, you will have to run on this treadmill forever.

How do I tell the mind and God apart?

Are you aware now? See. Be there where this is obvious. That is God. That is intuition. What do you have to do to stay here? Do you stay here with your attention when the ego is not there? The ego dissolves.

It's easier.

Who is saying that? You cannot go with the thief's report about where the thief is. Georgie, you reply directly. You reply yourself from your heart really right now. You mean in Spanish? I'm not not answering because I'm tired or I don't like the translation process or anything like that. I just want the Sangha to also be able to help each other, and many of my children who have been with me for some time, I feel I trust them to help their brothers and sisters.

Thank you so much. That's what I needed to confirm. Thank you, Father.

Okay, let's go to Etienne. Can you hear me, my dear?

Yes. I don't see you now. Okay. So, I didn't appear and talk for some time and I thought it was good to do it today. I am very, very happy for our sharing now. I feel to observe—no, I don't feel the observer, I was observing actually. It's not new, but it's always coming and happening again, just noticing that we come to relax, to be now in your looking. But at the same time, old patterns are mixing of wanting to be recognized just simply there. So whatever comes in the mind is good to just interact with you so we get your attention, and then we are in a kind of role play. It's not exactly what we wanted to do. Yes, we don't want to graduate actually, but it happens on the way because it is the old pattern to become a good describer of even what I'm doing now. It can be included in this pattern: 'Okay, I'm a good looker, a good inquirer.' And what does it make me? More happy? No. It's kind of a trip, a kind of part of an addiction of the old. Because I'm watching this not only in Satsang, of course, but in many situations, that the need of recognition is the virus of life, of our identification with the 'me'. So it is—you are all the time deconstructing and we reconstruct with you. We just put one more card and you... so I just needed to expose this because it plays in Satsang in this way. But in my case, in my daily life, I can really see the play of the thief and the policeman all the time. When the police is gone, the thief is just free and happy and then he says, 'I'm aware, I've seen it, I've seen the trouble I was making myself.' So this is what I just wanted to share. It's not new, it's an ongoing process. I'm very happy. I mostly don't need to talk about these but because I'm feeling more like a sponge impregnating, just being relaxed, you know, and not wanting to be something. I felt today to share more directly. Thank you.

Thank you. It's nice to hear you. It's very nice. It's good. I feel like you've been listening, you've been assimilating quite well. It's very good. Thank you so much for all these last weeks.

Thank you so much. Thank you, all my love.

Thank you. Can we go to Kavita? She often joins but is not able to stay for too long, so I want to see what she wants to do.

Thank you, Father. So I have a question which is a little practical. I've heard Ramana say—I mean, that's what I thought someone told me—that he says that action is bondage. So does that mean that... recently in the last nine months I was inspired to do a feeding program. I kind of cook food in the mornings and I distribute it amongst the homeless and over the time it's increased from 10 to 115 every day. I cook at home. The thing is that somehow I feel, is this another level of bondage that I've got myself into? Maybe I can take the courage and paraphrase, let me make it clearer, what he would have tried to convey. It is not the action which is bondage, but it is the actor which is bondage. The actor seeps in, you know, because there's ambition. Anytime you take up something you want to do it better, you want to give more, you want to... you know, all that baggage that comes with it.

Sorry, I was sleeping because if we go with that conclusion, then there is no hope. Then what we will have to do is all become vegetative and sit in a cave or something like that. The actor just seeped in without Consciousness's choice to play as if it is the actor, you see, or believe the seriousness of the role. No chance of freedom would be possible for anyone because the waking state is going to be full of action. It is called charitable action or work action or relationship or whatever, all full of actions. So if activity equaled bondage, then we would be in trouble because activity is bound to be there in the waking state. Even the sitting down, we call that the activity of meditating. So there's no escape from this activity in the waking state. But if we say that if there is activity then the notion of the dual deception—you see, then there is no escape from it. Then we just start till some hand of God has to just... something like that, which I'm saying jokingly, of course.

So then what is the alternative? You will notice that the notion of the doer is dependent on the thought that 'I am the doer' and all of the auxiliary thoughts which sort of convey that, you see. Even the thought that 'I didn't cook well enough today' or 'I didn't manage the thing well enough today' is the notion of the doer, isn't it? So we don't have to wait for that specific thought saying 'I'm the doer of this.' Any of this which conveys in a way that 'I am somebody and I am doing' is the thought about doership, you see. That thought itself does not have the power to compel Consciousness to identify. So even when the thought proposes this way—maybe that's why I'm coming down on it almost aggressively—when the thought says, 'But it just happens, you know, I can't help it,' it is just the thief being very slippery. You couldn't catch the thief because it is the thief itself.

How do you know that it seeps in? Because there's a kind of a wanting of some kind of result or certain amount of finance to come in. There is like a sense of somebody who wants it to happen a particular way.

Yes. How do you know this?

I'm aware of it.

How are you aware of it?

Because I behave stupidly. The thought processes that come in and all that. You know what I'm asking you, is it another bondage? Because as it is we're dealing with so much in our lives and we take one more role.

The root question really—this is the root question—is not whether you are provided a concept of whether it's okay to do this or not, which may be the original intent of asking this question. I want to take it even deeper than that and say: Okay, so now you have a concept that's all right, the action can flow but don't become the actor. We hold that in a mental container somewhere and say, 'Okay, that is the principle with which I'm doing this project.' But if we hold on to the ego with the notion of 'I am doing this project,' then my job is not totally done then. So I'm going to attempt to go a step deeper than the intent of the original question and say: Okay, so what can we rely on to make a true report about ourselves? Good one. Not the mind for sure. This one who said 'good one,' everyone else has sort of said 'yeah,' because you're relying on the mind, but the mind doesn't know you, right?

And I don't know if you were there in the beginning of Satsang. Were you there at the beginning? Because it's important, you know, and this will be a good recap I feel for everyone as well. Bhagwan clearly said that the Self will not be a fresh attainment. It's not something that you're going to get from outside. Maybe only in the absence of ignorance that the Self will become apparent, you see. So it is a process of deconstruction or a process of cleaning up of ignorance rather than a process of fresh attainment. That has to become the first thing which is clear. The second thing that should become clear is that when we notice the nature of this ignorance, we notice that it comes from the mind. The mind proposes that you are this body, you are this body-mind, you have this life, you're supposed to do this and not supposed to do that. So duality, desire, doership—all of this is proposed.

So it is a process of deconstruction or a process of cleaning up of ignorance rather than a process of fresh attainment, you see? That has to become the first thing which is clear. The second thing that should become clear is that when we notice the nature of this ignorance, we notice that it comes from the mind, you see. The mind proposes that you are this body, you are this body-mind, you have this life, you're supposed to do this and not supposed to do that. So duality, desire, doership—all of this is proposed by the mind, you see. So the source of ignorance is the mind. Okay?

The third is that when we notice the nature of the mind, it seems to be laden with self-preservation, okay? Otherwise, on hearing Bhagwan's words, we could have said, 'Oh, ignorance is the problem, mind causes ignorance, mind please go then,' you see? But then in the design of this Leela, it does not seem like the mind is designed like that. The more you try to push it away, the more it wants to have its say. Desire for self-preservation and, in fact, domination seems to be the nature of the mind. So let's use the metaphor of the thief then, you see, who doesn't want to be caught, obviously, you see.

Now, what most of us do as spiritual seekers, we go to this thief itself to say, 'Okay, now how do I get rid of the thief or catch the thief?' you see. And what do you feel the thief is going to say? He's not going to give himself up for sure, you see. So that mistake that we make in terms of trying to catch the thief following the thief's instruction, you see, is predominantly the job of the spiritual seeker, you see. That is mostly what a spiritual seeker is doing. So if you cannot go to the mind for instructions about how to get to Atma Gyan, then where can we go?

To the awareness that's always there.

So that, yes, so that inside that awareness is always here where you recognize that, you see? Where you recognize that all guidance is available there, you see? That you are awareness itself. It is not empty of—it is not a lost state. It is not that, 'Oh, now there is a practical life.' So like I was joking earlier and saying, how can a bird flap its wings and a fish swim and a plant grow without the mind? Because all of these are practical things. This is where we are stuck. We start with the mind, which has the ability to ask these huge questions, you see, but is completely unable to assimilate any true answer about anything valuable—love, joy, music, companionship. It cannot understand in the mind.

So this is the main problem where we've taken the source of ignorance to be the source of guidance in spirituality also. We're listening to the thief about how to catch the thief. So the thief will always say, 'But this is your problem, these feelings come, you start thinking you're the doer,' you see? It is never going to say, 'I am the thief, I am causing the problem, this thought is the problem.' It is not going to say, 'Don't believe me, I am the problem.' It is going to say, 'Believe me.' Like Donald Trump, every time he had to convince people about what he was saying, he had to say, 'Believe me.' So in the same way, the mind also says, 'Believe me.' So what are we going to do now?

Don't listen to the mind, I guess. You know, where can we go for it? What about what my problem is, what do I need to fix? Probably just to the heart and to know there's nothing to fix, actually. There's no one, you know? It's like, if you really trust the awareness, then you know that it's like you said, it's in charge of everything. It's the only thing that exists. There's no... how do we know that we are being intuitive and not mental?

When you're accepting, and your acceptance of what is, okay? If at the moment I'm judging... I have found the only fail-safe I have found is that when who you are is apparent to you, yes, so use that as the fail-safe mechanism. And in the times where it feels like, 'But it's not apparent to me right now, I'm caught up in the world,' then you can use a tool like 'Am I aware now?' and you will notice that insight is available without using the mind, without using attention, without all of that. And you can find that although I say remain here, what I mean is don't go to the other source of knowledge which is mental.

So when the doubt comes up which is mental, like 'Am I doing the right thing?' yes, just go into the awareness. Go to that, let's call it space provisionally. You recognize that you are awareness and all guidance, all intelligence, that is the source of it. So you go straight to the source rather than try to grasp it from some branches.

So eventually then it really doesn't matter what you do or you don't do, right? I mean from the physical or the mental point of view.

It's a—I don't mean this the wrong way at all—but this is an example of how the mind is. It'll ask the big question, but you can only receive a concept in return, you know? It's like a bucket of concepts. So I don't want to feed you any more concepts because then that just becomes mental knowledge. Let's speak a little more about this. I feel like it's helpful for everyone.

The first question about mattering is trying to presume the sort of meaning or the point of life, you see. Mattering must matter only if there's a meaning or a point. Now, in the mind's version of the meaning of life or the purpose of life, that is not the true benchmark at all. So what is our benchmark or gauge going to be? Like if we say something matters or it does not matter, or something is better or it is worse, you see, then what will we benchmark it against? It will only be against conceptual emotions. So it's best to leave the question of the point, you see. The point—sometimes I started joking these days saying life is not a pencil that it has to have a point, okay?

What I'm trying to say with that is not that life is pointless. I'm just saying that let's accept that our head is not big enough to fathom the point of life or the meaning of life, you see? And then we stop doubling ourselves in this way trying to figure out whether what I'm doing matters or it doesn't matter, you see, or life matters or it doesn't matter. Because the potential does not exist in the mind to fathom this. It is too broad. It cannot fathom the meaning of one moment, you see? What is this right now? It cannot fathom the point of life. And when I say 'no, no, no' earlier, it was also that if it becomes that at the end of this conversation you've understood something conceptually, then I have failed.

Yeah, yeah. I don't want you to leave with a tiny branch and I'm giving you the entire solution in terms of, you know, when you're on a crossroad or use discrimination, in fact, you know, you have to take a choice, yes? And the mind does come in, doesn't it?

It will, but you'll be... I've given you the tool to distinguish between the mind and intuitive insight or heart knowledge. Whatever the situation may be, heart knowledge is enough, you see. But if you burden your intuitive insight with the operation of the mind saying, 'Okay, now you're going to go to the heart, just make sure it works, okay?' you know, this kind of... then it doesn't work. It's not a cheat code to life, you see. But you will see in the course of time that such grace, because you followed your heart—but don't expect it to have some immediate... it's not like manifesting tools or something like that. A good opportunity for us to also recap some of the main messages I was trying to convey to this. So thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

One says, 'Dear Father, there is a thought which keeps me doubtful. I acknowledge that truth beats my heart.' If we do it, 'I acknowledge' means is this the mind saying, 'Yes, yes, the truth does beat my heart, but what about...' and that's what you say. 'But what about the tool's role in poverty, starvation, Holocaust, world wars, etc.?' This is a classical question, like classical questions. So because I see where this question comes from, I'm going to give this guidance to you, which is that just trust me. Just trust me and don't bother with this kind of stuff. Just keep following your heart. This is just mind diversion. So you don't need to understand the mind of God. Stay in your heart. It is revealing itself to you. Beautiful. Don't get confused. We don't get stuck in good and bad and better and worse, right and wrong, not at this moment. There will be a time where all this may reveal itself to you in the heart. It's fine. Don't get distracted by this stuff.

Let's go to September. Hello, thank you again and again. Always this intuitive part, effortless and nothing, is always here. So my... I want to look when this... and then the thought comes in like it's really kind of a nasty thought, like to tell a heart attack and her thoughts and something gets scared. So in this natural state, you understand before we talked, recognizing this intuitive space which is always here, nothing is happening to this. So is there a need to inquire who is this mind speaking to? Because that will be another trap. It's like calling the thief, 'Hello, where you are?' It's echo is asking the previous question also. What is this really about? Is it truth for truth's sake, to discover the deathless reality of myself, or is it just a mere antidote for some life event of here or something like this? To be honest, it's because nothing to hide for the moment now, it's really an antidote for all his fears which I am sensing. And but there has been of course in my life, there has been this... don't want to go into the stories, long stories, but everyone has some openings and then we see all life is more not only about this body. So there's that longing for Gaurav. But right now as I talk now with you is this... and of course I can sense the sense of being as always here and all your pointers are in my heart. Who's even aware of the being? But this... when the head starts to speak and it's taken very seriously.

So in those moments, yes, it's not possible that the head speaks and it is automatically taken. That is worth exploring right here. Because if you buy into that notion, if you buy into the notion that all the head has to do is speak and then there's no alternative, then all the Masters' pointings—don't identify, keep quiet—all of these pointings that all our Masters have said are pointless. No? Because what is the point of guiding their disciples with all of this if it is the fact that if the mind appears, then there's no option but to believe it? So what we are pointing to is that there is a gap between the appearance of the thought and the belief in the thought, and that gap completely depends on you as Consciousness, you see? But if you try to use that gap as a person, then it fails. It happens too fast for a person to fathom, and in fact, the person doesn't even exist. So it is not something that the person can use.

Just notice it first, you see? As you notice it, then you will see that it doesn't latch on as quickly as we think. Otherwise, we'll be hostage to this thought that we are stuck because as soon as the mind appears, then I'm already identified. And that is why then we can say, 'Okay, this is not working, I've tried.' That is the first thing I want to tell you. And the second thing is that we can never use God, you see? We can never use the truth to help the non-existent folks, okay? So if we want to use the truth already in the pretense that, 'But I believe the false to be true, now help me from that perspective,' then God cannot, does not dance to our tunes, no? And that's why we see the repetitive, failing nature of this endeavor. Because once you've taken yourself to be that which you're not and then you say, 'Now God, you help me,' you see, then that doesn't work. Or inquiry should help me, or something should help me. It doesn't work. You must drop the pretense and make it God for God's sake. This is truth for truth's sake. I'm saying this after long damage, but truth for truth's sake instead of truth for my sake. Because as long as it's truth for my sake or God for my sake, then the lane is not doubling.

The doubling nature of this endeavor is because once you've taken yourself to be that which you're not and then you say, "Now God, You help me," you see, then that doesn't work. Or "Inquiry should help me" or something should help me—it doesn't work. You must drop the pretense and make it God for God's sake. This is Truth for Truth's sake. I'm saying this after long damage, but Truth for Truth's sake instead of Truth for my sake. Because as long as it's Truth for my sake or God for my sake, then the lane is not doubling enough for both. So what I'm doing is actually I'm trying to help the non-existent person which I've taken myself to be. Yes, yes. And that, you know, inadvertently then what we are doing is we are taking the "me" to be God and we want God to be subservient to that God, you see? Because in the narrative, the "me" is still primary. God is helpful or God is good because God helps me. And this sort of answers the earlier question also, that God is good because God conforms to my idea of what the world should be. But there is not room enough for God and me. I don't know what becomes a part of the movie very quickly, but it's all about me. What use is satsang to me? Yeah, of course, many of you may say that, "I come to satsang, I spent three years here, how does that help me?" Is it now? Which are the rare ones who can come and notice that the job is not to help me, you see? Because it is a "me" which is the suffering. But even as I say this, the mind can latch onto that and say, "Yes, I am suffering from this 'me' only, I have to be rid of the 'me'." So it's again the "me" acting as a better "me". So what you take yourself to be has to be let go of. And that has come up, that means the one who was born and who has a history and who has a past, desires, ambitions—the one I take myself to be.

Subject, yes.

But I'll give you the good news that actually every moment it is gone, you see? Every moment it is gone. But when you pick up a single notion about yourself in that way, then it seems like the entire tree of conditioning is back. So you can't target a single leaf; if you target a leaf, the whole tree appears. So the tiniest notion, if you give it belief that "I am limited in some ways," then your entire baggage of history, conditioning, all of that is there. This is the game that is going on. It's like, jokingly—it's not really three seconds—but jokingly I said that all of this is a three-second game. Thought will come; if it goes, you remain free. If you take it to be true, it's like you're back in conditioning. That's all. Three seconds. All of life is this.

Somewhere we know that this person which we take ourselves to be, this place which we know that this is a lie. Somewhere at some level, we know that this is a lie.

Yes, that place. And that's been the theme of so many satsangs where we are trying to tell you that the place where you think you are, the person, is not the true place. Your heart, your intuitive space, you see, where you recognize that your awareness, you see, that's where you know. That is the aspect of yourselves where it is apparent who you really are. But if you go to the playground of limitation, then it'll seem like it is true that you are about my efforts are limited. So you know, okay, okay, let's go to Beeches.

I want to say to you thank you. So welcome, thank you. I see this spinning room movement like, yeah, like sometimes I am, sometimes...

You see it? Yeah, you see it. How do you see it? With what senses? With which senses do you see it?

Oh, and you asked me, he said what you refer...

Yes, yes. So I say you see this oscillation, no? This pendulum movement. Sometimes I'm this way, sometimes I'm that way. This you see it or you think it?

I see thinking. I see the thinking, yes.

What is the seeing saying? It may seem like I'm making fun or something; I'm not doing that. I'm just because this is what the mind does. The mind will say, "It is not me that is causing all this trouble, it is your seeing. You're seeing all this," you see? When I ask, "How do you know?" to every question, then mostly the response I get is, "Because I notice it." It is not true that you notice it.

Yeah, yeah, that's a thought. Yes, it's only a thought. I mean, I see this thought saying I have this or not yet, or many things, or I have to be like this to get to myself. Then I'm ready, I'm not, I'm nothing like the body or this my...

Yeah, still stay where you know that. Stay only where you know that you are not the body, you're not the mind, you see? Don't go to the mind which tells you you are the body.

Yeah, there is one of the warrior a little bit to believe these things. How do you know? There is no boy. Thank you. See what I'm saying? I am already all the movement of travel or process or it's like a Happy Meal. But I am already seeing all this mind saying, "No, great, not already," or all these things that I am here.

Yeah, so what you're saying is that whatever the thief may say, I recognize it is the thief, but my reality is independent of the thief, isn't it? Yes, good, good.

Yeah, sometimes, sometimes I believe I am the thief.

No, no. Sometimes? How do you know?

Sometimes I don't know. I how do I know? Because I relive the movement of the thief personally.

Yes, we'll stop it. The thief will never tell you its address. It'll never tell you. So what happens in the life of a spiritual seeker is that we keep chasing the projects that the thief says are true about us. So this is the problem right now, this is what you need to do, this is where you are, you are almost there, you need to jump off the final cliff into absolute freedom—all these kind of mental fantasies. So just recognize the thief for the thief and remember that there's only one problem, which is belief in that thought. That's all. Go on. No problem has ever happened. So when it tries to distract you, "No, no, it's this thing, it's that thing, it's this," thank you very much. Thank you. Now let's go to Jada.

Hello. No idea, my Father. I just wanted to speak with you and I can cry a little bit. Oh, good. I just feel a little bit tired still. Can you hear me well?

Yes, yes. You feel a bit tired?

Yeah, my body is just too heavy. I cannot move it so well. I don't know why it happened but yeah. Today I had a visa appointment and I couldn't collect my documents stuff and so that on Monday again I need to go. But I feel like it's good because it caused something else. But this heaviness, yeah, it doesn't feel good.

Yes. Does the heaviness in itself have power over you? Does the heaviness in itself have power over you? Just perceive the heaviness together. Let's see if we can do this. Perceive the heaviness. How big is it?

Yeah, maybe my attention was not so much on where you are pointing so for a very while and...

I'm saying something very simple. I'm saying something very simple. I'm just saying that the mind will always say that the trouble that you have is not because of the mind, it is because of some feeling, some sensation, something in the world, some perception. Now my request, submission, imploration, whatever to all of you is to check that that is not true. It is only the mind which is causing trouble. No perception has the power to actually affect your reality in any way.

Yeah, thank you, Father, because I was aware recently that there is always something, you know, with body, with feelings, with mood. Everything is continuously changing and yeah, I cannot be always in a resting state with this body or mind and everything is continuously changing and yeah, I don't know what to do with this and it actually, yeah, I'm asking for help for you to guide me on this.

Yes. So if you make categories or opposites in your mind, which is that if you know resting state versus non-resting state or heaviness versus lightness, then we are already in the mental mode. Like as little babies, we did not know these categories and yet life was going on. In fact, this is the loss of innocence. This is taking the bite of the apple where we start to understand this is better, this is worse, this is good, this is bad, this is what I want, this is not what I want. And that is the way of going like this is what we call resistance. And ego is nothing but resistance. There is no difference between ego and resistance, you see? So to say what God has given me in this moment is in the category of good or the category of bad is the source of all trouble. Okay? Now inherently what we experience as perception is never good or bad, Father. It can be what we perceive is neither good nor bad. It is not in a mental category, you see? It is just what it is.

Because I feel like, and Guruji already pointed this to me before, I have so many concepts but unlovingly somehow they are here and yeah, I'm a little bit suffering from them. This is the only problem. So yeah, please continue.

Yeah, exactly. So if you don't have this question, if you don't have the conceptual categories of good and bad, better and worse, what I want and what I don't want, then all of life can be perceived very good.

I just want to drop them.

It's already dropped. If you want to drop them, it's not dropped. It is dropped. So it's like, "I need to do something," you know? Like you think that...

Yeah, I still think you buy into anything and that is what the mind will do. You'll say, "Yeah, now I just want to stay like this," you see? When the thief is talking, I'm giving you advice about how to catch the thief. It's not going to work.

Oh, it was continuously speaking.

Yes, thank you for pointing this out. By its speaking, it does not have the power to get domination over you, you see? Only with the power of belief, with the power of identification, do you come into any sort of mental operation or mental slavery. Doesn't matter. If it kept speaking forever also, it did not matter. It's not in its speaking that the trouble is; it is in Consciousness taking that speech to be real. And it speaks as "I," as I said. It speaks both ways. It speaks as "I," it also speaks as "you." It says, "You did not do a good job of this, you should not have asked this question." It will say all this as yours. Sometimes "I," sometimes "you." It plays all these games.

While you're saying this, I just wanted to look, like, to whom it does it see? But how do you know you want this? It just arises. I forget. The hundredth instruction from the thief and that will finally be the accurate destination, accurate address.

So I'm going to just stop here because I noticed the body is fading so...