The Way of the Heart – 21st October 2022

Very good. Thank you for the report. Very nice to hear someone who came to satsang, listened carefully with attention, and then really went through these experiments to see what is really happening in super slow motion. To go through these experiments and then to come to these insights is very... One thing we could start off our conversation today is that in the report, something seemed like it was just about someone trying to become trigger-free. Is it like that? Is that what this is about?

Could be, yeah. It could be still a bit of spiritual ego that, yeah, is the Way of the Heart, or is the mastery, is the presence of God or the discovery of the Self, so that ultimately Dale can become a superhero trigger-free sort of scientific teacher in school? Is that what it is? Yeah, it could still be that.

I think I've added another layer of complexity that I think part of it is with the open and empty. After hearing that for quite a while, I think I'm still not quite there enough with it because even though I get the idea that thoughts can come and go, I think I still get stuck with the idea of, "Well, if these thoughts are coming and they are perceived at whatever level as unpleasant thoughts, then I'm clutching on them rather than just a thought coming and being properly able to go without any identification." And it really feels as though something isn't quite happening right. It does really feel as though I'm viewing some of these from a detached space. So I do try and do it from the point of view of where I think I am, at the place where I can say I can see that I'm awareness or Consciousness. And so I'm observing these thoughts from a place that I think is where I can say I'm awareness or Consciousness.

But there is still something happening in the body occasionally, especially with not necessarily repressed emotions or repressed thoughts, but things that again, way back in the past, would have bothered me. And observing these again in the present moment, that's the thing where I'm saying: Am I observing this as Dale? Am I trying to analyze this from the point of view of an ego? Even though it does feel as though... because from the last conversation you were saying, if you are at the point where what you are is apparent to you, then anything that comes up is likely to be truth; whereas if you're not at this place, anything that comes up is likely to be the mind.

So let's look at it, yeah, so that we can walk through this a few minutes together and see where we end up in that journey together. Okay, let's look at it this way. Let's use your perspective of being a scientist. Suppose that in the Big Bang Theory, everything after that makes sense—although now it's starting to not make sense if you've been following the news—but suppose everything after that is making complete sense. But in actuality, God created the universe, you see? But that notion or that recognition, although it is available with you, makes no sense and does not actually give us the ability to put intellectual frameworks about anything that followed after that, you see?

And yet, suppose for a moment—I'm not proclaiming it yet, I'm just saying—suppose for a moment the second is true, but you cannot meet it through any ability to intellectualize. What would you want? Would you want a framework which then ultimately makes sense out of your life, or would you prefer a truth which, although you cannot make sense out of and does not give you any benefit, you see, and yet it is that which we will go with because it is true?

Definitely the truth, yeah. I don't want to live in the holodeck.

Very good. This is very good because this then becomes truth for truth's sake. Is it truth for truth's sake and not so that truth can help something—help Dale, help this hunger, help to anything else? It's not to help in that way. It is valuable because it is truthful, is it? And this is the attendant... so we can go subtler in our conversation today to meet it at this level. Because really, the attempt, as long as it is to try and aid a particular individual, that individual will get amplified in some way, even though the attempt may be to sort of keep it subdued so that it doesn't cause any trouble.

So if the end goal itself is to prove that the Big Bang Theory is true by forgetting about the Big Bang Theory, then the Big Bang Theory will wear its ugly head eventually at some point. So what I'm pointing to is: what is that discovery which we can bet our life on? What is that discovery on which we can bet our lives, although it may not seem to provide any benefit to us? And that's a giant leap of faith. That's a giant leap of faith to say, "I will go for truth even if it makes no sense, even if at the level of perception it adds no value to the life of people. I'm still going to pick truth because I'm done with lies. I'm done with lies."

Like you said very nicely, "I'm done with the holodeck" or this abandoned Maya which shows up. So what is that which is true? When we have a question like "Am I aware now?", does the report of "yes," the assent to the question "Am I aware now?", does it make any sense? It made no sense because there is no proof available. There is no proof available. Nobody can go in along with you and verify with you that you came to that vision of that which is unperceivable, you see? There is no scientific proof, litmus test available with which you can say, "Ah, this is what happened. This proves that I am aware." There is no... so you accept that itself is a leap of faith, is it?

So a question like this brings you to a point where undeniably you have to leap over the moon, as good as you would say. You have to be the cow that jumps over the moon. With a question like "Who am I?", "Can you stop being?", "Am I aware now?"—this is the potency of these questions. They are like... the answer will make no sense. Even the proposal may not make sense initially, and yet we come to an acceptance of this. And this is the power that you have. Consciousness always has the power to accept that which may not be objectively verifiable. That is the power that you have, and that power is called devotion or faith or trust. It's all in the same spectrum.

And this is the place of true value in the human condition. Even Einstein said that I may have a hundred thoughts or ninety-nine thoughts, but only when I swim in the ocean of silence do I find a true discovery. In every sphere of life, you notice that, including inside Trump's objective empirical dealings, every single time. So now what will happen is: "How can I use the intuitive insight to help my empirical life?" But that cannot be the intention because then ultimately we are making God out of our empirical life, you see? If the discovery of the Self or God must lead to something happening in our phenomenal life, helping our phenomenal life, then truly what are we valuing more, you see?

And then if that is the ultimate aim, then would we not drop God or the Self if one day we realize that everything in my world will just burn to bits if God is that way? He would be still one God then, is the question. It's fascinating.

So, I mean, I've heard you talk about the checker guy so many times and the thief dressed up as the policeman to catch the thief. I was totally hoodwinked, I think, into thinking these experiments were coming from being.

Yeah, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I actually like the experiments. They are very good. Experiments are very good, but somewhere the mind wants to tag along in this experiment saying, "The trigger point is just to check how much does this situation trigger me now," and then it puts us on the scale of empirical progress again, like phenomenal progress, saying, "Yeah, being better at this," you see? Whereas that "you" which could be doing better, actually, is nowhere to be found. So if we insert that element into the experiment, and then the experiment itself—very tricky—becomes about that as a measurement criteria, then the mind still finds a way to stick on.

The trigger point is just to check how much does this situation trigger me now, and then it puts us on the scale of empirical progress again, like phenomenal progress, saying, 'Yeah, being better.' This, you see, whereas that 'you' which could be doing better, over actually is nowhere to be found. Hmm. So if we insert that element into the experiment, and then the experiment itself, very tricky, becomes about that—this is a measurement criteria—then the mind still finds a way to stick on to see our life in this way, in a very tricky information. Although the experiments by themselves are very beautiful to see, that it is nurtured thoughts, thoughts about things which have been valued in the past, they seem to carry more magnetism, more gravitational pull. And these are very beautiful experiments to do.

But if the end goal is not to remain in the heart, if the end goal is not to be in the presence of God, if the end goal is not the insighting to the Self, you see, and then it will become something which is in the temporal scale of time and space, then we are again getting back into the spiritual selfishness using just that simple trick. So it's trying, it's judging the goals of the experiment; that's the bad part of it. In that way, it is inserting it and it's switching the game about helping the 'you' which is day-to-day life and how to make the 'you' a non-triggerable person in this worldly play, which at best, if we want, can be a byproduct of the discovery of the truth, not the main intent.

So suppose it was possible to make a deal right now and I say, 'I offer you a trouble-free life, I offer you a trigger-free life, but you have to believe all that is called you see, and never venture into the heart where God is.' What do you think now? The truth, you see, then we lose concern about all this stuff. You see, all this stuff tries to insert itself through these narratives, and we lose concern about all of that. And then we just add the object or the intent with which we do these contemplations or experiments is then to really validate the presence of the Lord or really validate that which is beyond the coming and going of this waking state. That is the unchanging truth which our heart is longing for now. And this, you throw into the fire anything else that could be distracting or it could be just a matter of the lifespan of these dreams which we cannot predict anyway.

Yeah, I think another thing that gets me sometimes now you've mentioned that is that the ego manages to convince me that if you are triggerable, you haven't got it yet.

It's exactly this is how it works. So if we have a personal expectation out of it, and that itself will be used as a benchmark too. We do a—even if it says, 'Today you're doing very well, you're doing very well, you're seeing yourself from all these difficulties. If an ex-girlfriend called you six weeks ago, it would really have bothered you, but now she calls and it's nothing, it's just part of the play of life,' you know, for example. So we can use those kind of benchmarks, and then tomorrow it will say, 'Hey, but look at this, this tiny thing triggers you still.' So it uses the wrong measurements. It uses the wrong measurements for our spiritual search. And the beauty and therefore the problems in spiritual life is that it cannot be measured.

And for a scientist, you have many advantages on this search, but maybe also the condition may cause this disadvantage because you're looking for empirical proof. There is no proof with which we can measure the life of a sage, and that's where we mess up many times trying to judge the lives of teachers, which we try to understand in some construct that we have about things, but it's just not measurable.

Yeah, maybe it's time to drop the experiments a little bit. Let's not overdo it, just forget about it. Let's see how this conversation happens. So the experiment of checking whether you are aware, the process of the experimentation itself in which the proof is established, isn't it? Now does it matter if ten milligrams of bliss was produced or not? So the byproducts of this experiment are not relevant to be in the presence of your being. What should be the only proof of that? What should be the only outcome of that? It will start together, or should it? It is not disciples, devotees. What should be a true validation of the fact that you are valuing the presence of your being more than you value your mind?

Um, there is no proof of that.

True. It shouldn't matter. So these contemplations are fine, the experiments are fine, but as long as they are instantaneous and they are not about the measurement of something in time.

Sorry, can you say—you said as long as—I missed that word often.

Yeah, instantaneous. And not leading to a measurement of something in time. So I would say half the experiment is good and the rest can be discarded.

Okay, okay.

Because the mind would love that you don't do these contemplations anymore also; like it's a win-win situation. So either it gives you the pose of the ritual checker guy, which you very nicely spotted, which is using these contemplations to check on their progress, you see, or it proposes to you that it's all useless, throw it away. Truth is always somewhere in the middle. So value that which is helping us come through this true insight, helping us stay in our hearts, stay in our entertainment, but not pick up the judgments or interpretations which are coming from the head.

So everything is afresh, like you've said before with intuitive insight, everything is afresh. So when you say it's just now and now and now and now, rather than like I said, your mind will extend an experiment in time and write down the results and then judge the results.

Yes, this is another beautiful example of how we just can't get it in the head. So we just can't get it in the head. This is completely a paradox because to meet the Timeless, you have to do it in the instant in time. You cannot do it in time. You cannot meet the Timeless within time. How many seconds will it take to meet the Timeless? You see this paradox? It's amazing. If the Eternal, if you try to do it, 'Okay, I'm giving myself one hour,' what can you do? What will be step one? What will you do in the first minute, second minute, third minute? Okay, you cannot plan it like that. The Eternal has to be met outside the length of time, and that ability is completely yours as consequence.

Fundamentally it boils down to one simple thing: if you are using the wrong instrument, you cannot get the right result. So the wrong instrument being the instrument of the mind. And is the instrument of the mind even participating? Is he taking notes along with you? And it can take notes along with you, that's fine, but if you value those notes, that is where the trouble will come.

Fascinating. If you are truly trying to observe from the point of intuitive insight, yes, then a thought can't even play out. It's because the conventional thought is extended in time, whereas an observation of the wardrobes over in my bedroom, that can be instantaneous, and then it's still there and it's still there and it's still there with you. You can't really at an instant—

It's worth contemplating because in reality, although it's very beautiful what you said, we cannot even be that deterministic. You see, we have to just allow it to unfold moment to moment. Like an insight may come like this and we may share that as a pointer without latching on to like the thought itself or the notion itself being some gospel truth that we can then latch on to as if it is true. In fact, in the heart, it is impossible to be deterministic. And I realize that I'm saying that very deterministically, but you have to get the softness of the spaciousness with which it is said. The need to conclude will be the gravitational pull that pulls us back into the head.

So, what more? Here in Bangalore, I don't know what they have said in the broadcast much really. There is the way of the head, the way of the intellect, and there's the way of the heart. Now outwardly, whether one uses the way of the head or the way of the heart, or follows the way of the head or the way of the heart, outwardly you may not be able to tell the difference. You may not be able to tell the difference, and any phenomenal byproducts are byproducts at best. But inwardly, our life completely has to change. The life which was part of the narrative, which was the way of the head, has to completely be discarded for us to come to the way of the heart. Hmm. And it is not really a sacrifice; it's the highest gift that we can give to ourselves.

There's one other thing I wanted to mention last time but I forgot to bring it up. It was, I think my first introduction to any sort of spirituality was through Krishnamurti. Yes, and I just saw those—there was a two-minute clip of 'The Observer is the Observed.' Yes, and I've become a little bit obsessed with trying to work out what that meant. And it's kind of what the path it led me down, and I think I did mention something on this the first time, was I was searching for observing the observer, witnessing the witness. Yeah, so it was early on thinking that to properly get it, you've constantly attention has constantly got to be on 'I am.' And I've heard other people say this as well.

And I think in our first conversation it was a bit like, well, when I'm at home I feel like I'm getting it, but when I'm at work and you're lost in daily activities or whatever and attention isn't on the 'I am,' then I'm not doing it correctly. And of course awareness is clearly still got to be there because it's aware of everything, but it's not all about having to constantly remind yourself to be, to put attention on 'I am,' because then that becomes a chore, that becomes a practice. And like I've heard you say about—was it you saying you read Bhagavan's book and he said he kept attention on 'I am' for three years and then he says, 'No, I've got it'?

My dad, yes. My dad.

Yeah, so gosh, no. I mean, but I don't think I was trying to do it for three years, but I did—I remember having times when I've tried to spend a lot of time with attention on 'I am' and it is a struggle. I may be better than some, but I can't focus quite well on things. But that was quite refreshing knowing that you don't have to do that.

Let's see. Thank you, thank you for that. It's an invitation for me to dive in into very subtle realms which perhaps I have not done before in satsang like this. So this is very good. So let's talk about the observer, the observed, the play of attention and all of this and see what exactly—just I feel like this is very good. So let's bow down a moment to Krishnamurti's pointing and say, 'Okay.' Now, I rarely do this, but let's create the subject-object relationship for a moment provisionally to see what the pointing could be pointing to.

Now, it's an objective world that we perceive. It may sound complicated; all I'm saying is that this world is full of objects. Everything that we perceive has qualities; it has length, breadth, height, time, you see these dimensions. And that is what I'm calling the objective. Now attention and belief, these are basically tools to play with the objective, to play with the objective world. To play with the objective world without a narrative, which is therefore then beautiful, is just to use your attention because without attention nothing is perceived. With the attention, the world is foreseen. So the way Consciousness plays with this world is through attention. Now it says, 'Oh, this is just very nice. Where's my suffering in this?' You see, always the juice of the stream of this Maya, let me also identify as if, you see, just one character here, one appearance here. And as it is, we have the centrality or visual perspective, so it feels like—

The alternative which is therefore then beautiful is just to use your attention because without attention nothing is perceived. With the attention, the world is foreseen. So the way Consciousness plays with this world is through attention. Now it says, 'Oh, this is just very nice. Where's my suffering in this?' Is he always the juice of the stream of this Maya? Let me also identify as if, you see, um, just one character here, one appearance here. And as it is, we have the centrality or visual perspective, so it feels like I'm contained within one body or something idea like that. So with attention and belief, we can look at the object. So if we made a subject-object relationship, we are saying that this is helpful to look at the object. Okay, now I'm going really fast because most of you have been in satsang with me, and if someone has a question, you can raise your hand.

So what are the tools that have with which you can come into an understanding or an insight or, as we would call, a darshan of the subject? Attention from object, object, object. Whether you say inside object, outside object, wherever you go with your attention, you only find object, okay? If you go to the presumed inside, which is not really inside, then you will find a dark room which is also an object to be perceived. Darkness is a quality to be perceived. So how do we come to the subject? How do we come to the recognition of the subject? So in Krishnamurti, I am paraphrasing his words, but how will the observer be observed? How can I think he's talking about I am? Okay, so even I am, even I am, even if we say, okay, we are talking about that which is the perceiver, not that which is aware even of perception. Even if you say I am next, how is it recognized that I cannot stop being? With your attention, you recognize maybe the pulsation of beingness.

Now that's why I said that this is into very subtle land. So you recognize the pulsation of beingness, you see, like the core of your heart, like a sort of shining light, okay, like that. But that is the primordial phenomenal byproduct of your existence. But in the observation of that pulsation, you cannot answer a question like 'Can I stop being?' with me just with that observation. You cannot say this can stop or not stop because we're just perceiving it. If somebody put a beautiful light in front of you, you could see the light, and if somebody said 'Can this light stop?', you see, you can't say because you don't know what type of light it is, you see.

So when the question is asked, 'Can I stop being?' as Guruji said, so many beautiful questions in the invitation—was it born, can it die—any of these questions we cannot answer through the means of thought. We cannot even answer through the means of perception with attention. So although our attention may seem like it is resting on this pulsating light—simple pulsating is a bit of a stretch, it's not really pulsating, but you get the picture—so on this, on this pristine light, with that attention, you cannot say that this can stop or it can't stop. You need to access a different source of knowledge. And so we'll ask you: Can you stop being? If you could go to your head, you could get completely confused, or you could answer from learned knowledge. I think you could say, 'This is Atma, how can Atma die? I'm perishable, Krishna said so,' therefore no. But that is not the kind of answer that we're looking for.

It's just a tool to teach you the way of the heart, to get you to trust the way of the heart, which is to say that I know this answer, I cannot stop it. How do I know this answer? How do you know this answer? Not because of their attention. How do you know? And you know instantly, no computation required, no mechanics required. Even what you were observing in perception could go away, but the answer would not change. Are you with me on this? Because this is very, very beautiful. So the exercise of staying with the sense I am is to keep I am in apparency, is it? And therefore keeping in apparency the selves, see, because as it is apparent that I am aware, in that apparency, the apparency of that I am is also there. It is not two things, is it? In self-knowledge, there are not two discrete things. It is all one self-knowledge. And in the self-knowledge, whether we call it worldly knowledge, a knowledge of the beingness, or knowledge of the Absolute, they are not in separate compartments or tables. Just, it's instantaneous and it's full.

So all spiritual questions are answered instantly. But when we say spiritual questions, it is not that that knowledge is then limited just to what we consider spiritual in category. So it depends on what you mean by bliss. So if it is the Ananda—simplistic Ananda in spirituality has three categories. One is the bliss, so if I have someone who has lemonade, for example, just imagine, so, 'Ah, nice.' See, that bliss is an objective bliss. There was an objective perception with attention; some sweetness, some sourness, some nice mix of all of this was perceived, and something got delighted with that and said, 'Ah, bliss.' That is an objective bliss. Then it's natural that in a contemplation like 'Can you stop being?' when you come to the darshan of your own, or when you sing a devotional song, take objectless bliss. The bliss of just an encounter with your own Atma, your own beingness, is called Bhajan Ananda, which is the fruit of our devotion.

Then there is something called Brahmananda. Brahmananda does not mean any object and does not have an objective byproduct also. So, am I aware now? I am. This awareness may not have any type of bliss, but it's very blissful. It's like the bliss of deep, deep sleep, so beautiful by the absence of even the being itself. We want that at the end of the day more than anything else. So that is the Ananda which is not, not with attributes in any way. So the discovery of the truth of myself comes with this Ananda which is beyond any objective. So why that a physical explanation is required is because you cannot say yes or no, or how to explain it is the Ananda, yes, but then you will make it a benchmark to say, 'Ah, then my insight is not true because I'm not experiencing the Ananda, and I feel more Ananda when I eat, you know, sweet something, a candy or something.' So what kind of self am I experiencing that candy? So that is not the category in which we are operating in.

How do we recognize that we are peaceful? We cannot recognize it through any empirical, any objective, but you know we are super peaceful. How do we know? It's the way of the heart, of the heart. So this is the brain of the spiritual seeking in some sense, where we used the worldly tools in the spiritual realm. Yeah, and then then the mind says, 'Yes, yes, you're doing well, keep going, keep going,' so that one day it can set you up for failure and say, 'No, no, this is just not working.' So I want to short-circuit that whole mechanism. If you're out of that telegram and pull you into my playground, so you go to my playground where no measurement is needed, no time is needed, no report cards are needed. Cheers. I don't even want to say just beauty because then we can make a thing out of that.

One thing that I do find interesting when I try and relax the attention or put the attention on I am or search this is that when I'm doing that, I can still see obviously with my eyes and visual perceptions come in, but the mind in terms of thoughts is virtually silent.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, we'll come to this in a moment. I don't feel like we squeezed all the juice out of the previous question, so we will with what Krishnamurti said. So you have to observe the observer. Now the way to observe the observer is then we are discovering that although attention may find a resting place in beingness, you see, that is not really a true observation of the truth. That may be a part of it, that may be a restful place for attention to rest while this contemplation is on. But what I'm pointing to is that right now you're aware of your presence or your—it's clear that you are present independent of where attention may be. So what is the source of that knowledge? You may say, in fact, that everything is just appearing within my being. So what is the source of that knowledge? Is it imagination? No, it is because we are not imagining one like being sort of container which is a single thing, the whole universe or something. I hope none of you are doing that because it's not about that. It is nothing to do with this objective space.

So then after Ashtavakra said that you are the boundless ocean in which thousands of universes come and go, what knowledge was he referring to? And is that knowledge not available with us in an instant? We know this somewhere. Live there where we know this. Live there and live there. Don't live in the other guy's house, that's all. Everything, everything is there. Everything is to live in the truth except to live in the narrative of the mind. So we are covering some beautiful things in these conversations. So as you say, yes, so how does the master point to, provoked as to the pointer, 'Until you observe the observer, you will not be done with this spiritual pursuit'? So then you cannot do it through our traditional means at all. So this is inviting or provoking a switchover of instruments, switchover from head to heart.

Can I ask again what you mean by saying live there? That doesn't mean that you've got to constantly observe the observer, just if there's a realization that what we're discussing is the truth. If in your everyday life you believe the play a bit more, like a bit like when you're watching the TV, every now and then you realize I'm watching motion on a screen. But if you get involved in the movie, then you kind of lose yourself and you forget that you're actually watching motion on a screen. So in the same way in the everyday world, like I said this last time, that I can be teaching at school and everything's going fine and every now and then I catch myself thinking, 'Ah, this is a bit weird, clearly I'm Consciousness playing out the game of being a physics teacher.' But without realizing, I was Consciousness playing out the Consciousness bit playing a physics teacher role. So it's not always apparent unless I say very quickly.

Thank you, thank you again because your questions are just invitations for my heart to speak today. This is so beautiful. I feel like the theme of everything that I wanted to share in satsang has been captured in them. So then we say, okay, now we've discovered that there is a head, there is a heart. Only suffering is in the head. Only misidentification, confusion is in the head. Remorse, pride, resentment, arrogance, seeking—all this troubling stuff in the human condition are here, you see. And it is now I'm being reassured by my master that there is no need to live here because there's another resting place for you which is the heart, you see.

So now the question should be that, okay, all this sounds very beautiful and even poetic and all of those things, but how is it, how can I live this? How can I do this, you see? How can I live like this? So Ashtavakra tells that until you use the power of belief, you cannot pretend that you're in the hypnosis of identification. That is the only door, the only door to misidentification, that is the only door to suffering. You can experiment with it now. The apparency is your truth does not go in the observation of the physical world first. We must validate this, you see. Because otherwise we may feel that this is all to do with attention and where I put my attention. So therefore the experiment then is to try and put all the attention on this hand that is in front of you, you see, and see if you are aware of that which is beyond perception just naturally. You are. You can't help it. It's just natural to you. So in pure perception as I call it, you see, the world is tasted, the being is tasted, and your Self is tasting. So all three forms of Ananda are available. You don't have to hang around the world in every moment. That's why I keep saying you can't lose, guys, see.

So therefore, the experiment then is to try and put all the attention on this hand that is in front of you, you see, and see if you are aware of that which is beyond perception just naturally. Hmm? You are. You can't help it; it's just natural to you. So in pure perception, as I call it, you see, the world is tasted, the being is tasted, and your Self is tasting. So all three forms of Ananda are available. You don't have to hang around the world in every moment. That's why I keep saying—you guys seeing this? Sometimes I shout at them here. It's like, are you guys not seeing this? Are you missing the light which is here? I don't mean any light coming from another; I'm just saying in the room, any light.

So the objective world is apparent. The presence of your being is apparent, although it may be apparent in a non-localized way as opposed to the exercise we may do with the attention. And that there is that awareness to witnessing, which is my unchanging reality, is apparent without us doing anything except not giving belief. Hmm? You must validate this experiment. The only way to validate it is intuitively. So if you don't bother with attention at all, what is lost? Isn't the truth still apparent to you?

It is. Well, I'm not going to say 'but,' but I'm going to have a 'but.' It does feel different because you've asked that question. You've asked us to look. So because you've asked us to look, say, isn't it apparent? Yes, automatically, yes. Something is looking.

This is the thing with self-realization. Nobody comes to self-realization and says, 'This just happened.' This is another paradox which your mind just cannot dissolve, you see. Everybody comes to a recognition of the Self and says, 'This was always here,' you see. So although this invitation seems to be needed in this place, what you are recognizing is what you are recognizing, plus that it was always here. And yet it seems to be clear because I've invited the looking.

Yeah, it's interesting. It's a bit like me saying to myself, 'I know I'm Dale.' Do I have to keep reminding myself I'm Dale? Or do I have to keep going into a bathroom mirror and saying, 'Yep, I'm still Dale,' walk away and do something else, 'Let me just check if I'm still Dale. I'm still Dale.' You really don't do that. You don't start doubting that you're actually Dale.

What happens in your conditioning is because you're a scientist, I'm a teacher, you're quickly looking for illustrations or metaphors to be able to explain things. So I'm going to invite that you don't bother with it for some time, you see. Don't bother with what it means at all. Don't bother with what it means. Allow me to come up with all the things which are needed. You just return to the innocence of a child. So although the metaphors you're coming up with are beautiful—I may even steal them from you—they are not in service to your looking in the moment. Because the minute it creates a facsimile in your head about what is going on, then naturally you will get attracted to the facsimile rather than the original.

So for a while, I'm going to just say, okay, whatever, as beautiful as it may sound, just let it come. You don't have to create any reproduction of this for the moment, you see. And of course, it is my blessing that those who come to the way of the heart will naturally share the way of the heart, and there will be a time for that very soon. So there's no rush about that. So I'm just showing you the pristine beauty which is available on call. The most magnificent way to meet the world, and then the same naturalness meets your very being and come to the undoubtable recognition of your Self.

So just by dropping belief in the instrument of the thoughts, you don't have to think about it to understand it. That's the beauty of this. You don't have to understand any of this. You just have to allow it to seep through your bones—not even bones—you just have to lose... just like when I got these glasses. These glasses are, what are they called, bifocals? So it has both the distancing and the near thing. And the first time I put them on, I said, 'This is a mistake. They've got it wrong. They've got the order wrong, and this can't be the glasses I'm supposed to wear,' because everything was a bit of a shock. That is extreme.

And then actually Google came to service. Of course, you know, before calling the doctor, I just Googled it. I said, 'This happened.' So the first couple of weeks, for a couple of weeks, it'll seem unnatural with these glasses, and now I'm so used to them. It's so nice. I can read close and I can see far without any trouble. So how to get used to this new way of life like this? You want to just allow it to permeate. Let's see. The switchover is happening. You cannot help it, you see, and you cannot make it worse. Relax. They say the monster, say the heart is already in the tiger's mouth, but you're inviting it to eat fast or to let go. It's not going to help. So just allow. Just follow things with the child. Everything is being made clear to you. Everything is made as if it is, you know, Cerelac or whatever you have in your countries where it has been made into baby food. You just have to follow with great simplicity, that's all.

So what we are discovering is that the heart is where we know ourselves. We are the observer is observed. Yeah? Even though the world seems just naturally a lot sweeter than we imagined it to be. It's not a discarding of anything. It is not a negation of anything. It's just an utter innocence and utter simplicity. And there will be constant invitations from the head, and there will be times where we fall for it. It's okay. It's okay, as long as you remember that it's only about the next thought that comes. It's only about the next thought that comes.

So this is the switchover from the way of the head to the way of the heart. There's no possibility of judgment here. Like, I cannot judge whether you're getting it or not. You cannot judge whether another really knows this or not. I don't know anything happened. I know everything, but there's no way for us to make empirical judgments again. And I'm repeating this often because of your scientific temperament. Falling back to just don't believe your next thought. If you're doing it again, this is the only habit. This is the only thing.

Now, as to 'How do I make sense of what is going on?' You always want a formula. What's the formula that gets me there? Or what is the gist of what is happening? You may not get the gist. It is too immense, you see. All these words have not been used so that they can be made into a gist. If they were just to be put into a gist, they would have been shared. They are symphonic in nature. You cannot say, 'Okay, I will take the best notes out of Beethoven and make a better symphony.' You just cannot do it. It is symphonic in nature. In some way, you just have to surrender back. You just have to give up on that. What's going on? No idea. Can I make sense of whatever Ananta has told you? No, you can't, because then I would have failed somewhere.

For all of you, it is sounding beautiful somewhere; it is sounding frustrating, you see. Now, the frustrating part is the playground of the mind. Allow that to burn itself out. It's completely fine. You stay in where it's sounding beautiful, although you may not be able to make sense of it. Just like a Bhajan. You hear a traditional Indian Bhajan. Most of us here, including all the Indians here, don't understand, so we can't make sense of the words, and yet we enjoy it. Now, your mind will try to conclude, then words are impossible. You don't have to rush them to become judgmental about the truth value of them. Yes, and unfold from the heart without the contamination of individualization of the head.

They say the deal was whether you will take truth. It made no sense, and yet you can feel it in your heart. Okay? I guarantee you can feel it in your heart. Even if there's somebody here who's first such Satsang, they'd be completely confused in the head, but something can feel it. Feel what you're being tried to do. So remember that the deal was to come to that non-objectifiable experience of the Self without it having the condition that it has to make sense to us. It really is two different games. It won't be fun. And no matter how well you hit a six, you'll never become a world... so no matter what mastery you attain in our head, no matter how many conclusions we have found, the most pristine ones...

I think the problem is my brain finds it so fascinating as well, yes. And so my brain is constantly trying to think of algorithms and work out this and that and the other.

Yeah, so that's... yeah, sometimes what you could do is you could actually give that a little bit of space. If it's really overwhelming at times, you could write something out. I'm going to give myself 20 minutes to write down all the insights that I'm presuming I have. So let me just... if it is very, very strong, the condition, then just give it something to get out of your head and, you know, somewhere, some outlet. That's fine. But naturally start the journal. Yeah, just write down like on a journal or something. So you could do that. This is your time. Okay, what you want to say? What are you discovering? It's like this, it's like that, it's like this. Everything, write it down over there. That's fine. But don't value it more than that for the moment. For the moment. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you for these questions. They really allowed me to tell you what I wanted to share today. Thank you, Father. Thank you.

The Self can never be known in the head. It can never be known perceptually. No. That may lead to a misunderstanding sometimes that the sage is pointing to like a withdrawal of attention from perception, but that's not what the masters are saying. What's really being said is that even if you openly perceive what we call pure perception, what happens? Are you meeting just the world in pure perception? Are you meeting just the world? Are you meeting just perceptions? Please contemplate this question. It may seem very simple, but it can unlock our lives. As you would just think, pure perception, what do you notice? You naturally notice. So the world is clear. The beautiful perception of the world with no opposition. You notice them, you see. Your being is completely palpable, completely. It's completely. And that you are aware even of this being is pretty clear. It's fully clear.

This is what I mean by open in it. And the only way to help, because this is heaven, okay—there is no other heaven now—is to take the rumblings of this mind and to give them value. That process that we call belief. Not even... you don't have to discard your attention from them. If you can do it, fine, do it. Don't give them attention, then nothing to believe or not believe anyway. So that's fine. But most of us can't. Okay? So let attention be on them, unless you take them to be true. And you can do this. You can do this.

And thank you, Dale, for pointing that out to everyone. Don't get into this sort of meekness and sheepishness. 'Oh, it's too much. It's too big. I can't do it.' You then are not representing God. And not representing God can never be conscious to the same single music. They're not a thought, as pristinely designed as it may be, that can grab the thought of God and say, 'You have to please.' So already this heart has grabbed you, then saying that you are not, you are something limited, you see. And you can then operate from that limited perspective saying, 'These thoughts are too big,' you know. And you know the thoughts which will seem attractive to you? The thoughts which will seem attractive to you are those that you value more than yourselves. You may think that you value them for yourselves. It is a lie. It is not for your true Self. The thought of the...

Of God and say you have to please, so already this heart has grabbed you. Then saying that you are not you, you are something limited, you see, and you can then operate from that limited perspective saying these thoughts are too big, you know. And you know the thoughts which will seem attractive to you? The thoughts which will seem attractive to you are those that you value more than yourselves. You may think that you value them for yourselves; it is a lie. It is not for your true self. The thought of the delusion that you value more than the Self are two thoughts which are attractive. So investigate the nature of those gods and find out who wants that or who doesn't want that, like their desire or otherwise loses them.

So unless you—and you can experiment with this—just you open and empty right now. The world is clear without any understanding of it. It's apparent. No world knowledge is missing here. Your action can happen; drinking water can happen. You don't have to get into any Yogi Baba pose to be opening it. Just very natural, everything is fine. Your being is apparent. Now see if it is apparent independent of even your attention. So sometimes what may happen is that when you say, 'Keep your attention on the sense of being,' what are you actually doing? Yeah, you cannot bring your attention to the unlimited. Your being is unlimited, is it? What are you actually doing? You're looking at, you're coming to the core of this life, the essence of this primordial vibration, and trying to bring your attention to rest over there, which is beautiful in itself. But if you say that my attention is resting on the entirety of my being, that is not possible. This is your attention is limited. And everything is your being, and this is about it. So it doesn't matter whether the attention is outward, attention is so-called inward, you see. Attention is actually only outward. There is no 'anywhere' as far as attention is concerned to go further inward.

Now, let's stop with your attention. You cannot do it, is it? The roadblock. How do you go further? How do you see that your being is unlimited? You know this. You know your being doesn't have a boundary. How do you know? Any question which is asked you, you can only answer intuitively. How do you know? I don't know with my attention because how will I check on the unlimited nature of my being with my attention? It's not there. Where would you send it to check? You can't check. So does your being have a limit? Give me your idea. Okay, so does your being have a limit? Where did you know that? That is intuition. Because you're being born—were you born? Can this die? All these questions can only be answered from that, and the answer is not announced; it's before the instant. So this is happening.

Okay, yes, yes. So we've been here, although the conversation may be happening after two years, but suddenly just before the phone rang, somebody says, 'I just felt like you're gonna call.' What is that? So we neglect this because there is no mental way to make progress with that. Mostly people are in denial of this. You put it into some categories of deja vu or some astrological something, and you put it into these categories of coincidence, you see. You put it into these words and we hide away from that, is it? Because actually, you know what? In the human condition, we are scared of this. If you like, we will lose our sanity to come to that which is without boundary. To come to that recognition that I am that which is not perceivable to the mind is very scary. It may look like death. This is the death of the false, you see. What do you feel like then? 'I'm over, finished.' So most of us, although this knowledge is hitting us in the face every day, we are running with all our mind away from this. We are running with all our mind away from this dissolution of the problems, you see, because to the mind it's scary. It's contrary to everything that mind thinks about the world, position, all our notions about time and space.

Who wants to live like that? No notions about time and space? Sure, it all sounds very good on paper, but I'm telling you it's really good. That's why the presence of a living Guru is so helpful because he can really show you once it's going to be fine. You're not losing anything of value because it is to give up on an old way of life, really. So when you call someone your Guru—and no Guru will ever force anyone to call them Guru—but if you call someone your Guru, really what you're saying is, 'Take my life.' Until you are not willing to give up on that conceptual narrative you have about your life—and I'm kind of mellowing it down to not scare everyone—till you're not willing to do that, you see, then it's not really a Guru-disciple relationship. Then it is just, 'Oh, I call you Guru so that you can serve me and make my life more blissful or free of anxiety or something.' And is this a good gift that you can give to the Master? It's not a gift to the Master. The Master has no use for so many lives. The Master's given up on their life. What is he going to do with all these narratives and students? Nothing. It's a gift that you are giving to yourself to give up on the false, no matter how glorious or exciting or even painful. Sometimes we are attached to our painful stories because we love our comfortable hell.

Okay, I'll give up on all the good stuff, but this really happened to me. Yeah, this one did this to me. I cannot forget that. See, I may forgive, but I can't forget, you know. So make these glorious things my friends say sometimes. You hear this kind of reports, this kind of thing. What is that? That's our own prison, mind-created. So let go of all these attitudes, your chains. Yeah, they are stopping you from flying. Now suppose in reality you're a sparrow, but you think you're a turkey. And then, 'Yes, I want to fly, but I want to fly like a turkey.' So till you give up on your turkey-ness, you cannot fly like a sparrow. That's all that I'm saying. So it's the same way you will not lose anything of value. When I say that, this is what I mean. You may think this is very valuable for my turkey life—I'm not talking about the country by the way, the bird—it is very valuable for me as a turkey, but actually I want to fly. How many turkey stories are valuable to a sparrow? Zero. They are not. You're not what you think you are, but you know what you are in your heart.

Let's go to—can we go to Peter?

Hello, Father. Hello, dear. Actually, it's just to say hello and to tell you that I'm so happy to see you soon in Bangalore. Yes, yes, it's so beautiful. I'm really happy. And also thank you for this today's satsang so far. It's so, so beautiful. I'm very happy about checking actually when you're coming. Early next week, is it? It's the 4th of November, so Friday. So we'll see us in Bangalore on Friday, the 4th, in satsang, I hope. Claudia is also coming; he has the same flight, I think.

Okay, good. And try to make the rest of the satsang also as good as it was so far. Yeah, I know what you mean, don't worry. It's not... okay, let's go to—can we go to—let's hear from Salar.

Hi, my Father. Good to—it's so nice to be back. I've been recently—it's been since the retreat that was a couple weeks ago at the beginning of the month, there's been more moments where I can—oh, I'm so sorry, I'm outside and there's like—so there's been more moments where I'm experiencing the presence and feeling more in harmony with it, but I don't always see it as myself. Or there's those moments, but there's also other moments where I go into like a lot of thoughts, so I go into like some heavy state or something like that. So that happens pretty often through the day and everything. And just this beginning when you were talking to Dale and everything, it was so beautiful as I was able to follow it. It's really good.

So just when the presence is apparent to us, the being is apparent to us, or the Self is apparent to us, then what more could we want? What more could we want? Is there anything more than this? The mind cannot do without the version of 'better' or 'more.' So then it tells you a story about how you can get mastery in a worldly life, and then God is always there when you want God. It's always there when you want, you see. It tells you this kind of story, say that, 'Aha, now I can juggle the world and God.' Because the presence that you speak of is the presence of God itself. The presence of God itself.

Now, don't fall into any trap of juggling. Don't create any mental category of, 'Okay, but practical life and spiritual life.' All of this stuff, God takes care of all of life, and God does not judge whether something is practical or spiritual. So when the mind offers you these invitations—because that is the only time that you seem to oscillate out of these, you see—you oscillate out of the presence of God only under the hypnosis of a thought, of a present thought. The thought is there and you're buying into it. That is the only seeming oscillation out of the presence. Yes, there is no other way to do it. Only desire, all our worldly notions, theory, how to have the best life for Salar—all of that will come as invitation. And also Salar will refuse. 'What if I just stay with God and I become a better...' you see? 'Whatever, I stay with God and I never get into any relationship. What if I stay with God and I disappoint my parents?' All these worldly fears and the worldly desires is what the mind will offer to you. The mind will offer to you, and then you have the power to not go for it, the power to still fully surrender your early life to God so that all these invitations are neither attractive nor scary.

You will be seen as the irresponsible son? God's problem. You could become the best, you could have the best partner in life that anybody can dream about? God's problem. So both invitations, whether desire or scary, and to do it—and you have the power to do that. We don't have the power to talk. So just in the moment of recognition, it is apparent to you that there is nothing greater than this. There is nothing greater than this or higher than this. This is clear in your heart. You know this in your heart already. Now, in one moment of inspiration, this is apparent to us. One moment of the heart, this is apparent to us. Now the usual temptations and fears will come from the head; you just let them go. And when you do either—when you do end up buying—nothing to worry, because what's past is past. What's past is past. There's no postmortem, no guilt, nothing. As past is past. Fresh now, God is fully here, you see. God is not appearing in your heart saying you've been a good boy or a bad boy. Okay, God is appearing fluid. Okay, God's not saying, 'Oh, yesterday you bought into so much desire, you did this, you did that, you should not have done that.' God is not judging you. Contrary to what we may think about God, God is not judging. And God is not saying, 'Oh, you were very good yesterday, you were really good yesterday, let me give more of myself to you because you were very good yesterday.' He's not doing that. See, God is fully present here, available to you. So no judgment is needed. When you catch yourself in a narrative, in a story, just drop it. That's enough.

Yes. Yeah, it's so beautiful that point you made. I just heard it. It's always here. I believe you said something like it's always here, but then when I believe the present thought that comes up or something, then that's when I can get to not be experienced, something like that. It's so beautiful. Yeah, because I was just when you were talking to Dale, I heard that point about not believing your next thought and I was just reflecting on it. Yeah, it's so beautiful, so beautiful.

Yeah, very good. Your flowering is apparent in just this conversation compared...

It's always here. I believe you said something like it's always here, but then when I believe the present thought that comes up or something, then that's when I can get to not be experienced, something like that. It is so beautiful. Yeah, because I was just when you were talking to Dale, I heard that point about not believing your next thought and I was just reflecting on it. Yeah, it's so weird, so beautiful, so beautiful. Yeah, very good. Your flowering is apparent in just this conversation compared to when we spoke the first time. So yeah, following this, keep following this. Thank you, because I live out—I sent the text, I don't know if you've seen it, but I live about—I moved from California six months ago to Florida here. And I moved with a Sangha brother and sister from California because we've been meeting there for like over two years, you know, really, really close. So we decided to move here and we live together now in this house and it's just so, so amazing. Your messages, I had to go to Facebook and then Mira responded back to me saying you don't usually see these, but she'll try to show you and everything.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. Hello, my dear. Hello. Can you hear me?

Yes, yes. I saw a photo of you and Muni also yesterday. Is Photoshop, it's not true. I see everything is. I wanted to come and to say hello, Father, and to say, yeah, the conversation so far has been very, very nice. Yeah, very, very nice. And yeah, all the things I wanted to bring somehow and yeah, also, yeah, I don't know what to say more. But so, are you living in the heart? In a hut? In the heart. Thank you again. But what I can say is already complicated, no? Yes, yes, more and more. I can say no, not more, more. I'm not asking about yesterday.

Yeah, so now, see. Asking for a report, not a judgment. Yes, are you living in the heart? Yes, yes. And the way to live in the heart is do not live in the head. From your attention, there is nothing needed. From your belief, there is nothing needed for me. Yeah, every couple of weeks I invent some new words to just make it fun for all of them. It is equal to the way of the heart. It's all the same. Yes. Feels very good.

Oh, hello. Hello, my dear. Um, lovely. Thank you. I've enjoyed many things about watching on YouTube, listening, including some of your fancy shirts. They've been very nice.

Thank you, thank you. Let my wife know because she does all this shirt shopping. She's a good, she's a good stylist.

Okay. I know I put you on a beautiful spot. Thank you. Take your time. That's great. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Very much. Thank you. It's, it's—I've been watching and listening to you for some time and I think, and for a short while, and um, there are, yeah, I'd say although it's our first time speaking, you're closer than close. So please, you know, how do you know, or chop the head as much as necessary? That would be great. That would be lovely.

That's why I'm here. It's, yeah, I guess it's why we're all here.

And um, I think sometimes listening to brothers and sisters—but for me, who grew up in England and I live in Ecuador now, whose first language is not English—yes, things in such a way that it's almost... um, I don't know that you sort of verbs or synonyms and in a way that makes me go, 'Oh wow, that's it's really, really interesting way of communicating.' Um, yeah, yeah. I think something, and I guess you have spoke about this often: how does one know? How can you know something that you cannot perceive?

Yes, yes. Thank you, thank you. How, in terms of how wonderful is it that I know and yet I don't know what the mechanism is? Or are you asking for what the mechanism is?

You know, I ultimately I guess I understand that it is a mental question. It's okay, it's okay. I perceive you, I perceive my brothers and sisters here, I perceived the table, I perceive this open space when I close my eyes. But how does one perceive something that we cannot know, that which is unperceivable?

Yes, yes. So let's dive into this and don't at all feel like it's a very basic question or something, because this is the essence of what I'm pointing to. This is the essence of what I'm pointing through. So it's a very good question and if everybody in Satsang today just got up and asked me this over and over again, I'd be very happy to keep answering this because this is the highest blessing that we have. Because if all that we ever knew was only that which was perceivable, then the Vedantic experiment of pointing to the fact that everything perceivable comes and goes and therefore is not here, then the only possibility would be for it to end in failure and not in self-knowledge. You see? So if our limits of knowledge were only constricted to conceptualization and perception, then the Self could never be an object of self-knowledge. It could never be an object of knowledge where you could never confirm that 'I had an insight about myself' or 'I had this realization of myself.' You see? And even so far as to go and say 'I know who I am,' this would not have been possible unless we had the ability to get that self-knowledge. It seems strange only because we have been taught that the means of knowledge are perception and concept. Excuse me, but actually as we've been saying, there's so much that we know already which is not based on this. I keep joking and saying, you see, as a parent of teenagers I can tell you that I know I love my kids, but that love is not always on the condition of feeling the love.

Yes, absolutely. I have a nine-year-old, so I know exactly what you're talking about.

So sometimes there is not the feeling of love. Sometimes there's anger, you see. Sometimes there's something else that can come and yet when someone asks you, 'Do you love your kids?' you know that you love your kids even though in the moment you may say, 'No, no, get them away from me,' you know? So how do we know that? Because the feeling or the perception of the feeling may be anger in that moment. I can say I love all of you kids in the Sangha. I love all of you. And um, there are times where Sangha kids may frustrate, although it rarely happens, but maybe not the present feeling, but I can say I love you. So what is the basis of knowledge? Is that a lie then? Because the perceivable feeling is not of what we would call love. That love can never be known just on the basis of feeling. It doesn't have to be like that. Feeling is just a byproduct and a phenomenal byproduct of love in our hearts, which in the world we have confused for love. Same thing we said about music, you see. Where do we like music from? Is it that in our head we are tabulating the notes and saying plus this, this, and that's why? No. You could just be listening without, in the no-mind, you see, and you love the music. You could not—maybe the words are not making sense or the words are very simplistic or you don't even agree with them, but we love it. Where do you love it? Or you hate it. So all of this, you see, existence itself. When I say, 'Can you stop being?' you can't stop being. Say, 'Are you aware now?' It is not needing a mental process for you to confirm that you are aware, and it's definitely not something that you can perceive. So how do you know this? Like, are we first confirming that I do know this, I am aware? First we confirm that, and then we're saying that what knowledge is this? Because it is knowledge which is undoubtable and yet I'm not perceiving anything to confirm it. And it's definitely not coming just because I know it from scripture or from the master's mouth or something like that. It is direct insight, more clear than there is a computer in front of me is that I am. And even more clear than that I am is that I. So that non-perceivable, non-conceptualizable knowledge is self-knowledge. And because it doesn't sound cool to say we just know it, we say intuitively you know it in the heart.

So you've also said and read in various places that everything that comes will go. Everything that comes that does not stay is not true. And so by that very notion, um, I mean when I say 'I,' I guess I do mean everyone, but I came here. This life is temporary, it will go. By that very notion, do I not exist either?

Yes. So when we say 'I came, I go,' we're talking about what? The body that was born, you see, in the womb of the mother, and the body that will be cremated or burnt or whatever will happen to this body. So that is the 'I' that came and that is the 'I' that will go. Which is the 'I' that has remained unchanging even in the context of this body? You see, where every cell has changed every few years. Therefore, we cannot let the ship of these years—you cannot identify the baby that was born from my mother's womb to this man who's sitting here on this couch. It's completely unrecognizable as a body. But what has stayed constant?

Yes, that space, that 'I'.

And where is that recognized? Always here. So you're not recognizing right now what you're recognizing—you are not recognizing through perception or through inference, you see, or through intellectualization of any way, or through any way of intellectualization. So just referring to a deeper knowledge, it's what I call heart knowledge. So even in the world, okay, I see on Facebook, Instagram, and the body of someone passes away, everybody wishes them 'Rest in peace, rest in peace.' Although we can talk about the usefulness or not of that exercise, but whatever. But what I'm pointing to is that even those who are not in Satsang somewhere recognize the ephemeral nature of the body and the common nature of the Self. And that's why they're saying, 'May you rest in peace,' although the body is gone, you may already have been burned. So who are they wishing rest in peace to? So somewhere the human play, although we are obsessed with our mental knowledge and our perceptual knowledge, somewhere you see your heart knowledge also plays out. Now, for most of us, would you say you are living in the head or in the heart?

I would say both. There are times when, I mean there are times when yes, you know, one's contracted and small, but then there are also times when everything, you just seem part of everything. And everything—how can you define everything? It's everything, it's so large. And did you let that space that you've talked about previously...

Can we do an experiment about this? So if I ask you right now, right now, okay, are you limited or unlimited in this very moment before anything, before the first thought?

I guess the answer for what's coming would be again both. I'm sat here in this skin and yet I know it's not me. I know it's not everything. I know that I breathe this, I see it's in here, it's out there. So I feel like the honest answer for me is to say both.

Very good. So notice that if you were to be convinced that the first part, that 'I am the body' or 'I am in the body,' that conviction or that belief can only come on the basis of some thought that I believe. Notice that it is not possible to take yourself to be limited without that happening. And yet the knowledge of your limitlessness does not need the notion. Because this is really important and at the crux of what I'm saying. So suppose we say, okay, you are sitting there in the body like you said. What information tells you that?

The limitations of this body or this mind tells me that.

Yes, yes. And are they inherent in the perception of it? In the perception of the body, you see that you're located within it? It's just part of it. It's just thought. And without thought, what do you find about yourself initially? So don't feel like you're under any pressure. It's just...

No, I don't think so. You said perfectly that my notion of my containment within...

Sitting there in the body, like you said, what information tells you that the limitations of this body or this mind tells me that? Yes, yes. And are they inherent in the perception of it? In the perception of the body, you see that you're located within it; it's just part of it. It's just thought. And without thought, you find about yourself initially—so don't feel like you're under any pressure—it's just, no, I don't think so. You said perfectly that my notion of my containment within this body is completely thought-driven. Okay, now, the other side of you: think without thought. What do you see about yourself? Vast, infinite, big, large, all those? Yes. And so it is this thoughtless knowledge. This is what we mean by this peace of the heart or the way of the heart. It needs no thoughts, it means no computation, it means no variables, it needs no time. Just simply, innocently apparent.

And yet when it uses the mind to express itself, it sounds scriptural. It doesn't happen whether it's saying naturally. Just like if you take a brief digestion, just like an uneducated seller of cigarettes on the streets of Mumbai got to this realization, and his words are now translated as 'I Am That'—the bible of Advaita—because he's just sharing from that which is so apparent and clear to him, but uninfected or uncontaminated by the limited version of the self which the mind is offering. And that is just pointing as if in his simple occurrences you're finding the core of all Vedanta.

Something that I'd like to ask you: what is it that you have understood or retained, or what do you get? Is there something simple that you could say?

Yeah, so okay, let me see. In my house, in our house, all our houses, there are two tables, you see? There are two tables. One table has offerings which are telling me about my limitations, you see? So if I eat them, I buy into how small I am. And one table has offerings which are showing me my reality. So the only difference, if there is one, is that I only go to table number two.

And was it... did you go to table one? Thinking and lots of suffering, if you like, to eventually get to that? I don't know anything about you, I must say. I haven't researched or I don't know. I mean, your name, is that a spiritual name or is it your name? I don't know what Tapan Garg is, I don't know. But I'll tell you what I do.

Okay, so thank you. Thank you for asking this. I rarely speak about these things, but let me see what comes up now to see you. So, in the life of this one that was called... the parents gave this body the name Tapan, and then Guruji gave this body your name, Ananta. So, of course. So I was an atheist for a large part of this life. Then at the age of 23—some narrative is coming up, so I'm not sure if that... so at the age of 23, I started a business and got married at that age. So it quickly went from being an atheist to really asking all the questions: Who am I? What am I doing here? What is the purpose of existence?

And then for many, many years, I've been through this what is called the spiritual journey. So I tried all kinds of practices, read every book which I could lay my hands on, and I was at the end of it fully lost. Like, not more clear, but less clear. You know what happens? Like beginners in Rome, at the beginning you feel like everything you have understood, right? And then as you dig deeper, you realize you haven't found, you haven't discovered anything yet. So many years of spiritual searching, more than 10, 12 years, I was completely lost. Like, I didn't even know what is my path, what should I ask, what is the question which is unanswered?

And in that state, in 2009, I met Guruji, Mooji Baba. And I went up in front of him on the hot seat and said—I mumbled something like, 'You have to help me with the first question, because even what I want to ask, I don't know.' Yeah. And it was sincere. I was not... it was not any pretense at that point. I was so fully lost in the spiritual search. So I don't actually remember with great clarity what answer he gave, but I do remember really well that as he looked at me, you see, the notion that I had about myself, the notion of the 'me,' was not pointing to anything. Like, there was no reference left to it anymore.

So you could say, if you were to try and put it into words, you could say that I could not find a 'me.' Like, I could not find a location, I could not find where I am, what I am. And yet it was not an alien sensation, just like it was always like this to just him. So that which I took myself to be did not find any landing ground as he just continued to look at me. Then externally in this body, some things were happening, like laughter was coming and crying was happening at the same time, or alternation of those things. But that's not important at all, what is happening externally. It definitely... I just lost like a reference conceptually to who I was, and yet something was resting so deeply in the true Self-knowledge.

Just so, if you go back to the metaphor of table one and table two, I realized that I can't find anything on table one of value. And yet it seemed like table two was only coming into appearance now, but at the same time it was clear that it was always there. That's where that paradox is the mind can never understand. Like, what is self-realization? How do you in an instant recognize the eternal nature of yourself? But you find... you seem to find it in the worldly play within time, or stepping out of time to discover that.

This happened... I met Guruji in 2009, in January of 2009. Then for many months, I didn't feel like really talking about it. Definitely didn't feel like sharing any of this with anyone. It was not a feeling at all. So I would just find ways to... so the typical family member is coming and saying, 'Are you feeling depressed? Are you all right? Is something wrong?' And I'm saying, 'But I'm so happy, can't you see the joy?' And then saying, 'No, we can't. Yeah, we just feel like you're depressed.' So those three, four months went like that.

But then some life energies and life force started to appear in this way that work started to continue from here, but the identification with the one that I could not find, I don't feel like it ever came back. Momentarily, of course, every day you may have a moment or two where some identification happens, but truly in the extent of living under that mental location, I don't feel like I can say it came back. Which, by the way, is no guarantee that it won't come back tomorrow. It's the mind's best use of me now. But since I met at the feet of my Master, it is not really... I cannot say that I've faced mental oppression in that way. That is what changed.

I mean, it's impossible to know whether you eventually may have come to that or if it took you meeting such a person for that to happen. But anything true actually is impossible to know.

Uh-huh. Impossible to know in the same way that you said it's impossible to know, which is impossible to infer or import and impossible to conclude. The truth actually is impossible to infer and control. So I think—sorry.

Oh, please, please. It's like sometimes when you've... I know that there... I also was an atheist as well, but for many, many years things didn't make sense. And I also come from an Indian background and... but anyway, it was rejected. But then after being on my knees and asking to show me, I was shown. So whatever has been seen cannot be unseen. I can't today... I can't sit here and deny the existence of something greater from what I was shown. I just wanted to... I guess it's something on that point.

Can I just invite one more question, which is to say: Okay, now suppose that your memory went. So everything that you were shown in the past, all memory of that is also gone. But right now, that limited aspect of your existence, is it not apparent or is it an important thing?

Yes, yes it is. It's constant.

Yeah. So when we learn to look fresh moment to moment, then the mind cannot recurse and say, 'Oh, you had it then but then you lost it.' The truth cannot be lost in that way, right?

Yeah. This is what I mean when I say that what has been seen cannot be unseen. Exactly. See, yes. Yeah, we finally found... may I just ask you... you and I have heard you speak about this, that when one closes their eyes, you know you're in this space and... but that's not it. It is... it seems it is, however, a space where all of humanity can relate to. If we close our eyes, we are in this space that's boundless. There are no boundaries, there's, you know, all of that stuff. And yet it's not it. But everyone can relate to it. What is it?

Yeah, so okay, let me see if I... I'm not sure whether I got the question correctly. So you're talking about when I say this boundary between inside and outside. You see, we don't really know what this is, because if it was inside something like we presume it's inside the body, then if you had the ability to go inside the body, we would find organs, we would find flesh and blood. But where we go when we close our eyes, it's like... it may appear to be like a dark empty space, but we notice that Consciousness has the power to project anything here. So you can imagine a tree, you can imagine a full universe, you can imagine whatever you want. It's like an unlimited screen which is at our disposal.

And the closing and opening of eyes, actually, we cannot really determine whether that is happening within the play of that screen or whether it is an actual physical change that is really happening. So just like when we... okay, so let's take the idea that our eyes are closed, but we dream up an entire universe, isn't it? Which is called the dream state. These eyes are closed. So anyway, that's a full circle itself, so we won't go too much into that. So what is that? So that is... what I'm saying is that the notion of inside and outside is just conceptual. And actually, if you were to just explore more, you find that, okay, now I can project so much here: memories, imagination, and thoughts. All of these things can also show up here.

But really the unanswered question even in this instance is that: Who is perceiving even this? Because that is never on the screen. So we could then say, 'Okay, I could have a screen, then a screen within a screen, and then in that dream have another screen,' you see? Where in the dream I've closed my eyes and I'm imagining a tree, you see? And then it can be an infinite regress happening there. But all of that is only on the screen. Okay, what about that which witnesses the screen? And isn't that critical to find out? Because all the elements on the screen are changing, and if we try to hold on to that which is changing, then we all experience suffering, like you said. You were brought to your knees. In whatever way, all of us have that experience.

So that is because of the elements on the screen. But that which witnesses the screen, is it important to come to some reality or something truthful about that? Because just as we are having this conversation in a dream, then the dream switches, a new dream comes, then another life comes and another dream comes. All of this is changing. But what witnesses all of those things? Who am I in my reality? That has to somewhere become important to us. Okay, everything that appears here, let me... like the entire universe, the entire world of humanity is studying that. This is all those sciences and all those things. But how many are studying that which is witnessing all of this?

And if I have to determine which tree to build the house on, is it important to determine whether I'm a sparrow or a chicken? Suppose we spent the whole life living as if we are a turtle and at the end it turns out you're a giraffe. So you say, 'What should I do with my life?' You see? What should I do with my life? Should we operate under a presumptive notion of who we are, or until some truth of who you are?

Yes. Yeah, like I guess like The Jungle Book, there was Mowgli, you know? He thought he was a wolf for exactly... yeah, yeah, he wasn't.

It is important to determine whether I'm a sparrow or a chicken. Suppose we spent the whole life living as if we are a turtle and at the end it turns out you're a giraffe. So you say, 'What should I do with my life?' You see, what should I do with my life? Should we operate under a presumptive notion of who we are, or until some truth of who you are?

Yes, yeah. Like I guess like The Jungle Book, there was Mowgli, you know? He thought he was a wolf for—

Exactly, yeah, yeah. He wasn't. All that conditioning of wolves was there, but it wasn't who he was. So now, what is the trouble? The trouble is that all our means of knowledge hit a roadblock, you see, because you cannot perceive who you are. You cannot think about who you are. In every culture, every tradition—like your name comes from a probably from the Sikh tradition—which means you may think and think a hundred thousand times, but the truth will never be a product of your thinking. Um, so in every tradition, in some way or the other, it is pointed out that knowledge attained through thinking is just time-based and is very limiting. Go deeper inside, a deeper knowledge, you see. But in the world, nobody talks about that, you see. In fact, in the world, when you mention intuition, it is like taken to be the ability to predict the next scene of the movie or something like that, which is not intuition. So this aspect of ourselves where our true self is known is fully neglected in the human condition at the moment, and that is a clear disservice to ourselves. So my invitation and my, in fact, like prodding, provocation, everything, is that it's really important to find out who we are first and foremost. It is important to find out who we are. Everything else depends on that.

It cannot be named, really?

Yes, it cannot be named, but can be recognized. So this recognition is always available to us. And because it cannot be named and it cannot be perceived, it doesn't mean that we cannot rely on it fully.

Yes, yeah. Again, although I've heard you speak of it, it's only recently, I think, that the concept of headlessness has sunk in. Do you say that from the—do you know the work of Douglas Harding?

Uh, yes, maybe it plays a part there, but when I first came in satsang here, I didn't have any memory of that because when I read—when I was reading all the books, I also came across this, right, right, yeah. The headless for me, anyway. Yes, thank you so much, dear teacher.

Thank you very much. So it's nice to talk to you, and thank you to our brothers and sisters as well.

So whenever you feel like you've been gone, just okay, who's still standing? Let's go to Jada, who's saying, 'May I come up next? I need to go for CYS.' Yes, Father, it's no more Jada, I see it again.

So it's just a little bit excitement here, but it's fine. Let's—I just want to be more to chill. And thank you. Oh, Father, I raised my hand to actually give some reports, but somehow it's all dissolved. Like, it was the last thing believed in, and during the satsang, it just rolled and it seemed like it was just something like the old habit of reporting, you know? Just the report has changed, which became something new, not what I was used to. But it's just seeing that it's actually nothing. But during my stay in Sahaja, it was coming time to time and believed in, and that's why I wanted to come and just expose it. But it's really thin, like it's nothing but a report from mind, from a person.

Very good. So dissolve is the way to live, you know.

Father, it was something like, oh, I thought I wanted to expose it because maybe, yeah, exposing is a way to cure. So exposing can be that I want to expose it so that you take it fully for the sake of—I don't believe it again. But can you—is it clear, my voice? No?

Yeah, just hold it later. I couldn't hear you. I missed because some people say that it's not clear audio, so maybe it's clear now, right? Yes. So many times what can happen is the mind also starts to use the tool called exposing to revitalize that which is already dissolved. So we can just like dissolve. Maybe better if you expose? No, the exposing is to dissolve anyway. So if it happens, you don't need to bring it back or value that in any way. Yeah. And yes, so the way of the heart is moment to moment. Long, long time.

What's the distinction between 'feels like' and 'thinks like'? It feels like hardship. Is it not 'thinks like' hardship?

Everything is hardship. Hardship is only if something—there's still something you own, there's still something that you can say is mine. Only that can create hardship.

No, Father, I'm just so okay. Like, I'm that I cannot go anywhere now. Like, I don't know how to report from there. I'm—

Oh, that's very good. Even I don't report from there. Table number two, please. Like I was telling Japanese earlier, there are two tables in every house, including my house, but one of them has become an antique because of not being used, and the other one is fully alive. I'm inviting you to the same table for dinner for the rest of your life.

Well, I'm here already.

Yes, so don't go on any mental adventures to table one. Everyone is always at table two, but in our mental adventures, we go to table one. That's all. That's the only hardship. Yeah.

Now I'm not able to. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, good. Yeah. Are you living from the heart, huh? Are you living from the heart?

Father, it feels like I'm presently I'm in nowhere. Like nowhere is—

Which is not the head, is the heart. This is the easier way to speak, to speak from here. Yeah. As you live in the way of the heart, the sharing which will happen organically through you will be the way of the heart. You don't have to find a way to speak it. Actually, if I were to sit down or plan a way to speak, it would be impossible. It is the life lived in the way of God, not the speaking of it, not just the speaking of it, which is important. This is your inability to conclude is actually a good thing. To frame words and put your life into a narrative—is actually a good thing. Thank you. I love the names. How did we know its name, its meaning, huh?

No, I have no idea what is it.

Yeah, I said, okay, may I share them? Share the meaning also. So it means elevated, exalted, glory, eminence, sublime, noble-minded, aspiring to the highest, and incomparable. Okay, you're not, you know. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm so happy with it. Okay, can we go to—okay, let's hear what Akshaya wants to say.

Hello, hello. I don't have anything to say. This phase is not good, you know? It's like Dark Night or something.

You feel like you're undergoing the Dark Night. Everything that we go through in life is an opportunity to come to the truth. So when you're feeling throttled and squeezed, and every aspect of our human existence seems to be against us, attack humans, then you call that the Dark Night of the Soul in some way. But it is taken as suffering only when you are holding on to something. Without holding on to anything, nothing can make you suffer. The greatest power in this universe cannot make you suffer. So sometimes in our life, we have the guru, all of this, to come to a deepest in our heart, in our intuitive insight. Life forces us to give up on our ideas, desires, expectations, emotions, so that we learn to rest in the unfathomable, unsensible, non-computable, unperceivable reality of your intuitive presence, of your divine presence. But now is the time where every identity will get created because only the false can be chopped, only the false can be cut. So as you open and empty, even the Dark Night cannot really cause any suffering to you because in this world, only the false can be attacked.

Father, what about Master's presence?

So even more important than the physical presence of the master is for you to follow the pointings of the master. You have to surrender your individual will, and that is the only point of calling someone a guru. You cannot have a guru and have an individual idea about what's best for your life. So continue to follow the pointing means continue to follow the instructions which are with you. Like this, we will speak to me and it can change that this moment to moment, that will not rush the flowering of a flower.

Completely different. And now everyone—family, friends, and relatives—are advising about job, money, and help if you've kind of—but I don't want to follow them. Yes, like only one wish was coming, that I should go and attend something.

Yes, okay, I'll clarify this for you. This is a very important question for everyone. It can feel like the worldly advice we get from friends and relatives and family and everyone is a different type of advice, and the advice you're getting in satsang is a different type of advice. But actually, it is more different than you imagine, okay? This is not—it is not less different, it is more different. Because one advice can be like a worldly advice, the second advice can be like a spiritual advice, you know? Then you can have like in the worldly advice, you can have categories about job, relationship, all of that. In spirituality, you can have categories of knowledge, ethics, being—all of these categories. What I am pointing you to has nothing to do with any of that, either of those. So you don't have to get some overlap between what you should do based on worldly advice and spiritual advice. What I'm pointing you to is not on the same playground as the rest of the world because that is what I'm calling today the way of the head. I am telling you about the way of the heart, which is only moment to moment, okay? Just follow moment to moment. Just moment to moment without making any presumptions about where your life has to be, who has to be in your life. That's new here, which is not what I'm trying to follow heart but to—like I don't understand anything. Heart orientation, I don't mind, I don't know why.

So you can see that you exist or not?

Yeah, I exist.

So that—how do you, where do you know that? Is it in the head?

No.

So stay there where you know that you exist. Stay there.

For me, it is impossible.

Because that is what every head will complain. So if you talk to everyone's mind, they will say, 'But for you it's impossible.' It was so—I mean, I just existed and there was no problem, anything. This beingness also. That's why I said to start with that you have to learn to follow the pointings. You have to follow the invitations to where you're being led instead of determining in your head what is best for you. Because then there is no point calling somebody Father, Guru, and then saying, 'I know what is best for me.' Is that you who don't join a school and then say, 'I'm going to teach the teacher. I will tell the teacher what I need to—what they need to teach me.' So the mind always takes that position, you see. Now that I've called Father 'Father,' let me tell Father what I should be doing or what he should be doing, what he should be telling me. That is not a father.

Because I don't know anything. If—and the only thing that comes into mind is just go into Father's presence and sit there. That's all I can do.

Yes, so both the waiting and the knowing that 'this is what I have to do' is still too much knowing. It may sound too radical, it may sound too radical, but an infant does not know even this.

And what about mind or Maya, you know? How it kind of—I came to you and mind started working against. How to separate Master from you?

Stay with the presence of the Master in your heart and stay with the pointing of the Master in your heart. Nothing can overpower you, you see. But if you try to mix it up—this also Maya, also Master work, so a little bit of this also, a little bit of that also—then it will seem like you're getting squeezed. The highest sadhu can get it and the greatest sinner can get it. There are no prerequisites. There is nothing. But you have to find a way in which you surrender this idea of a person and the idea of a personal will and personal desire before the truth is really lived in that life apparent to you. In their lives and outer activities can be anything.

Try to mix it up, this also Maya, also Masterwork. So a little bit of this also, a little bit of that also, then it will seem like you're getting squeezed. The highest sadhu can get it and the greatest sinner can get it. There are no prerequisites. There is nothing. But you have to find a way in which you surrender this idea of a person and the idea of a personal will and personal desire before the truth is really lived in that life apparent to you. In their lives and outer activities, it can be anything, you know? Yes, the activity has nothing to do with what I'm saying, you know? Anything can happen, unfold there, that's fine. Okay, so let's go to Monique right here.

I was listening the whole time but I was working and I saw my hand went up, so I but I didn't feel it put it down. I don't know, I felt like maybe it's... yeah. And I haven't spoken to you for quite some time, like even though I follow. And thank you, Jared, now is coming. Thank you so much for the audio satsangs. Right now, even there is like the two ones last this week, a week ago, I haven't even watched it because it's like kind of so much, but thank you, thank you.

Do you feel like they are more choppy than the broadcasts or what do you feel about it?

Maybe. I don't know. Today, as then I was coming, like Peter also said today, I was also in like more very on demand of the audio satsang somehow, I think. But that's just, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if they are more choppy. Maybe. Yeah, the job is good. Thank you for the photo yesterday. I really enjoyed. Thank you that I could send it. That was... I'm thinking for our response. Yeah, thank you, thank you so much. Thank you and everyone there. I'm actually not in Sahaja. I see it. I am not in Sahaja. I'm outside of Sahaja, this one in the village for the last three months now, like over. And right now I went into... it's called now... it was called Leila, just like a small community. Yes, thank you.

That's cool. Hello, Father. Can you hear me? Yes, yes. Video one second, I'll start. Okay, like, oh, hello. Hi. Hi. How are you doing?

Father, I didn't want to give myself the time to actually formulate a question, sort of like, ah, I wanted to... sorry, it's sort of fair, but and I want it to be something nice. I like, I don't know what. Yeah, so this is something that's been coming up like for a while. Like last week, you played a bhajan and for some reason that brought up this feeling of so much aversion to Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Mission, because I was in a residential school there. And one thing that was bothering me again and again is like, to me it is unimaginable to have some bhakti again towards whatever was Ramakrishna, like whoever Paramahamsa or Vivekananda. And I feel that it's even always teachings were like, believe yourself to be something spectacular, like infinite, this, this, that. Believe, really believe. And so much about the manifest world, so much desire, so much doership also, so much doership. So I found it so oppressive. And then I'm like wondering, maybe there's something there to it also, that is also a valid path, maybe it's still going to the same place and I don't get it. But it's something that I wanted to ask you.

Okay, so like we discussed before also, if you remember, we said that we can't really templatize any of this. We can't really templatize any of this. And then we could say, okay, now if it is not templatizable, how does it really work then? It seems to work in this way, although this is just like the storybook version of this, because the reality we can't really talk about it. But in the physical version, there are dealings with certain temperaments, and then for them, the master with a particular temperament is available so that they resonate well with each other and then go through this journey. What is happening, so don't have to worry. Like many times some expressions are not that palatable and some expressions, we cannot follow them at all. No one forces you ever to follow any expression. Unless, because we've gone through that school, but now that you're out of school, you're not really being forced to pick a guru. Although sometimes like we have some help because at least confirmation bias is not possible in those situations. What do you think you already know, you see? And then somebody who's just saying things which are completely opposite to your way of thinking sometimes may also be helpful. But really, that's right.

So that strong aversion, like I feel like something like what's after that, it came up just suddenly. Like then I had to remove my earphones and then keep them away and then I don't know, it was very strong.

Many of us, you know, and especially in India and some people from overseas also confirmed like this, like sometimes even I'll get a dream about going to school for an exam and having not studied, or studied for some other exams. In this childhood conditioning, all of this can play out. So my suggestion would be don't work on that auxiliary problem at the moment. You stay with the core of this, which is to come to self-discovery, self-realization. And if some strands of that still remain, then we'll pull them out together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Back in Bangalore, I'll come on Monday if it's there. Something very good. Yes, yes. Thank you, Father, to hear you're back. Let's go to Elena. Let's see.

Hello. I just don't feel... so I just don't know what to say. There's so much since the retreat and even before the retreat, there is so much resistance going on. Just... and I force myself to look to it every day and read and look at videos of Mooji because I don't want it to linger on.

Yes, yes. So one tip I have for you is that the resistance you see is only possible when there are two categories in the head. This is so. Maybe there is like a spiritual category and there is like a resisting side which is like a worldly category or identity category which is fighting. Now, without the other category of spirituality in the head, if you don't have to accept anything that I'm saying, what could you resist?

I put up after some resistance, I have to say. I just try to bring my attention over and over back to the witness, the witnessing.

Yes, yes. But okay, something simpler. So we talked about these two tables. You heard that or you just joined?

No, I heard that.

Okay, good. So resistance is the like the caretaker of table one saying, 'No, no, you can't put this on my table.' Is it? But I don't want to put anything in your mind, you know? I don't want to play in that playground at all. It doesn't matter what you accept and what you reject from what is being spoken here. Don't worry. Firstly, that has to be made clear.

Yes. So nothing to resist, nothing to buy. No, I'm not resisting. It's not resisting you. It's just so much noise in the head and I try to sit with that and I have all kinds of techniques to do with it. Okay, but the one said then you just try this, seek relief from it, and then I see but that's also, yeah, not real. So I think I see it but it's still playing and I'm still buying it. I still go to that first table.

Yeah, so there is too much stacked up on table number one. There's too much stacked up on table number one. It's only something on table one which has a problem with that, that there is too much noise in the head. Who has a problem with that?

Yeah, I know it's that person does not exist. It doesn't feel like that. Noise in the head... the noise is not bothering anything. It's bothering this non-existent person.

Well, that itself says it all. Like, how can the non-existent be bothered?

I still believe it. I wish I could... I wish I could stop believing it.

Yes, you're that power you have fully. But you cannot do it in the past and you can't do it in the future. You can only do it with the thought which will come now and exercise that power over the thought that comes now. That's all. Yeah. Yes. So the mind will try to make it a game about the past and it will make it about, 'Okay, now this has happened over the past couple of weeks and now I'm like this,' you see? But that's all past. Or it will say, 'But how do I do this? How can I... how do I deal with day-to-day life and you know, I can't do this anymore.' All that stuff is about the future. This is actually just about right now. Yeah. Right now, the full truth is apparent to you as much as it is apparent to Bhagwan. That's it. So this game becomes more of an instant game than an idea of a long time. Are you free right now?

Yes, I am.

Are you free right now? Yes, you are. I can answer on your behalf without waiting. If I give you time, then the mind may have different answers. So I'm not giving him time. If you ever insert yourself in time, really that is when the narratives can be formed and then the games of resistance and acceptance and all that can play out.

Thank you. I just wanted to... I was feeling this presence of my biological father who passed away in 2009 and just wanted to, I mean, to bring it to satsang and to bless him. And I love him very much and unfortunately he was pretty much addicted to alcohol and pretty pessimistic. But he was pretty pessimistic, but I feel he was very pure in the heart, in some innocence. I feel it, you know, just was feeling his presence. Thank you, Father. Thank you, my dear.

Hey, hand up since before the first version. Sorry, I'm coming to you so late. Okay, Father only dear, there's an echo coming back. Can you hear me? Okay, it's not so good. So what I will do is I'll mute and you can speak and then switch it. Is it better now, Father?

Yes, yes. Let's try this. Yes, you know, you cannot hear me right now. We can, we can. Cannot hear you now. There seems like there's some lag. Maybe I will go on the phone. Okay, try. Let's try. Just give me two seconds, please. Can you hear me, Father?

Yes, this is perfect.

Okay, this is on the phone. It was on the computer before. That's good. Can you hear me now clear? Okay, perfect. Okay, thank you. Thank you for giving me the chance to speak. I was going through this loop of raising hand like in the classroom. 'Oh no, I should not ask.' I was doing that drama because I felt like what you really have to say, what I have to hear, you've really spoken to everyone and has gone in completely. But still there was that impulse and to say, yeah, I think I feel like putting it out for now, so please bear with me. There was a search in my life for many, many years and then after I met Sri Mooji Baba in 2015, there was a... and he said it, that the 'I Am' which was locked for so many years, it came out of the box. And it's true that this sense of being is here always, it doesn't go. But now there are challenges which are really... this is coming in my life. I don't know, like my mind spins why it's coming. For example, physical pain, Father. Like someone is rattling my body from inside with lots of sweats and stuff like that. So it takes a lot of attention into that and I take this as a part of maturing. And there's almost a sense of this body is going to break open into many pieces. It's like the depth of the body, something like that. Yes, there's a lot of fear which comes with it. I deal with it on an everyday basis. I've been here now with you in your presence, feeling, sensing this nectar what we are, and at the same time the pain and the sweat is there. And I say, 'Okay, this is, you know, my life body's destiny and I have to go through this.' But there's almost like when you said like Mooji Baba felt like he's going to become a hunchback and all that, there's for me these images of my body splitting into a hundred pieces and attack. And this mind creates a lot of stuff.

So one tip I have for you, and this may be helpful, is that you must live like you already died. The mind cannot push that button and say, 'Yeah.' This is exactly probably I need to hear that because I noticed this condition you have because of your prarabdha.

But there's almost like when you said like Moojibaba felt like he's gonna become a hunchback and all that, there's a for me, there are these images of my body splitting into a hundred pieces and attack, and this mind creates a lot of stuff.

So one tip I have for you, and this may be helpful, is that you must live like you already died. Then the mind cannot push that button and say, 'Yeah, you're gonna die.'

This is exactly probably I need to hear that because I noticed this condition you have because of your previous medical thing in history, yeah. So just, just imagine that you feel what can die is already dead.

In fact, what can die is already dead anyway.

Yeah, I see that, Father, that this body is dying. It's like what Moojiji has, a burning candle or whatever, however he puts it. Put it in the category of already dead, but you are like, yeah, your eternal life itself.

Yeah.

I sense that when you say that, I sense in my heart that this is true, that what I am is not limited and so temporarily living in this shell. And so this battle between temporary life and eternal life is this battle between head and heart.

Yeah, in head and heart. Like you said, you know in your heart that nothing about you can die in reality. Yeah, so consider that which is going to go anyway, consider that is already gone. The mind cannot use that button.

There's almost, almost a fear of somehow, I don't know where it comes from, this fear of death. I can see it like it's a, it's a, it's a fear. I can see that it, it's not a real fear somehow, but somehow I, I, I, I, I still do believe in this thought of death.

You know what your mind is scared of most? It is scared of your reality, scared of eternal life, and it poses as if it is the fear of death. Yeah, when it finds that you are timeless and deathless, that is what it wants to run from the most. And it is that eternal life which it is trying to make you run away from. Yeah, people coming closer and closer to it, it will try to push harder and harder.

I really need your blessings, Father, in this journey.

You always have them.

Because I can't, I've come to a distance where I can't go back from here still.

So let this 'I', if you really need my help, you have to fully give up on this 'I'. You have to give it up to me. I am not here to help you, sorry to say. I am here to dissolve you, for want of a better word. Yeah, so don't ask me for help. You help me by handing over whatever you think is yours to me. Yeah, to make that mine. Then death cannot kill it. This moment, the mind tells you, 'But you're gonna die, but you're gonna die.' You say, 'Take it up with Father because my life is his.' Then find a way to completely hand yourself over. And it doesn't have to be me, you know, it can be anybody that your heart feels truly devoted to, where you feel so comfortable making your life theirs. Then what button will the mind push?

Thank you for everything, Father. Thank you for your, your, the words which always point to the heart.

Yes, yes. All of you now can spot the difference between the way of the head and the way of the heart. All of you can spot the difference. You can smell the difference between the way of the head and the way of the heart. And so I have no excuses left, but you have no excuses left to follow the way of the head. Just hand over your head. You cannot hold on to any idea about yourselves and follow the way of the heart. The real God is full surrender, full trust, no doubt, just moment to moment, and no intellectualization, rationalization, and making sense of things. It's a radical leap, but you have the full power to take it.

Thank you that I can come. Uh, I just want to lay everything at your feet. This is all okay.

Thank you. So you laid it here, now it's mine. Yes, yes. Don't take it back. Yes, yes. This is nice.