Perception and Attention - 22nd August 2017

He says, 'Father, can we say perception of objects can still be there without attention engaging with them?' So this is the point which Ashtavakra was making, the idea that attention does not go to objects. So what I'd say is that there can be perception of objects without interest in them; there cannot be a perception of an object without attention. What Ashtavakra is talking about is the interest in the objects. What I mean by interest is: what's in it for me? What can I get out of it? So this phenomenal perception is a product of our attention. There is no perception independent of attention. Even imagination of anything—I mean, phenomenal perception and attention are the basis for that. These are very beautiful contemplations in that: that which does not have our attention, we cannot claim that they have any existence. It's only a presumption that they exist. That's why, actually, even science has been doing for hundreds of years these experiments, like Schrodinger's cat.

Father, hello. When Guruji does this exercise, right, 'be empty of everything,' so your eyes can be open or closed. Even there can be objects of thoughts or even the phenomenal objects we see around. So at that time, my experience is there can be perception without interest, as you said, and at the same time, the experience of being in a very attributeless place. The only attribute can be peace of that.

Exactly. What I mean by 'let your attention be completely free'—this is my attention. You mean that it is being specifically devoted to something. So what do I mean when I say just remain open? The same thing as Guruji saying 'be empty.' Although attention is questioning, the perception happens. It is not seeming like a motivated, like a selfish attention. What I mean by consciousness in the way of interest is not to them to get something for me. It is not directed in an egoic way, directed in association with its own image. Just as I said, it is empty of interest and weight.

You will find that even in your empty, sometimes attention goes to the sound on the street, sometimes attention goes to the words I'm speaking, sometimes attention goes to the memory of what happened when you were sitting in the meditation. This is the whole point of attention. And yet, the interest in the outcome of what you are getting out of it is not there. This play will be some more. Contemplate with this. We will see that very naturally attention can function and we can still continue to remain empty. And see what empty means. It means you don't give and go for concepts about yourselves and that you have to be like this. And there is no interest, that we move interest or disinterested, no desire or just like right now.

You could be empty of the prompt and your attention could be on these words, but something might come, either in your room or some sound bite on your computer, and attention might go there. Attention can traverse, but you find yourself untouched by the movement of this attention because you are not buying yourself to be something which is interested in where attention is going or what is happening. Play with the concept I'm offering to you: that attention is that tool which itself is already attributeless, except the quality of limitedness, but it brings all phenomenal perception to life. Only that exists on which there is attention in our direct experience.