As You Let Go of the Head, the Heart Will Become So Apparent to You - 19th August 2022

You're checking your beingness. Yes, yes. Can I go away?

No. It takes a bit of time to relax into it and let the mind—for the mind to not seem that attractive. Is that...

Well, how are you saying? For the mind, yeah? Or for the one I take myself to be not to be so attracted to the exercise and try to prove something or try to—it's not really too fast or too slow.

So for the one that you take yourself to be busy to do something or not do something. But that one doesn't exist.

True. It comes and goes. If you don't—does the person come and go, or does your taking yourself to be the person come and go? I feel like this is a very relevant point. Like, we may have the idea that the person comes and goes, you see? The person who's here and the person goes, you see? But no, the person is only what we take ourselves to be. So if you take yourself to be a unicorn, then the unicorn doesn't come and go; your taking yourself to be the unicorn comes and goes, you see? But even if you take yourself to be the unicorn, that non-existent unicorn, how many steps can it walk?

Well, it walks every day. I have a pedometer, but I don't think that's the right answer to the question.

Oh, it's good! That's what—in fact, thank you for saying that, because that's what most of us end up doing. We are measuring the level of personhood that we still have based on some apparent symptoms of that personhood. So with the pedometer, you can never measure the steps of the unicorn, but you're measuring actually what seems like or feels like there must be the unicorn there. And this is the subtle difference between reality and appearance. So if you keep going on 'it seems like' and 'it feels like,' then we are back to the realm of, 'Oh, I have never seen the unicorn, but it seems like it must be there' or 'it feels like it must be there.' And every time it feels like, I keep measuring that and saying, 'Oh, there's still so much person here, there's so much problem here, there's so much ego here.' But I mean it quite literally: the person is as existent as the unicorn in front of you. Don't take it to be poetic or metaphorical. It is very literally the person is as real as the unicorn that you perceive in front of you, you see? Maybe even less, because the minute I say that, you may start perceiving unicorns. Okay, so let's return to where we started. So your being is apparent here now, or does it feel effective?

My being is apparent. My being is the one without the effort. The effort belongs to the unicorn.

Exactly. Very good, very good. So effortlessly it is apparent. And many times I see this, that if you're taking effort, you're going in the wrong direction; you're using the wrong instruments. Yes, yes. So now you will perceive in some way which is difficult to pinpoint and say, 'Is it perceived as a sound? Is it perceived as an image?' But you will perceive thoughts. You will get thoughts which are proposing a reality which has nothing to do with your reality, which is proposing something which what you find effortlessly has nothing to do with that.

True. And I also know sometimes, you know, it's like there is no space for the two. Once you're in the effortless, the effort disappears.

Yes, yes. But try not to know. Good point. The idea of this is not to come up with the most magnificent conclusions. The idea of this is to be empty of everything. All knowledge can have it. See, it's a human condition to not want what is effortlessly available—or let's call it an egoic condition or a mental condition—to not want that which is effortlessly available. So yeah, that is why spiritual seeking can seem like such a difficult thing; actually, it is effortless. So for the mind to accept effortlessness is impossible. And as long as we keep valuing the mind as if it is giving us valuable positions, till then, to accept what is effortlessly available can seem like such a task. It can seem like such a state that we have to hold on to. And it's very important as we start satsang today that I want to point out, as I'm saying I've also noticed the human condition, so I want to point to everyone: embrace what you need to hear, not what you want to hear. Otherwise, you will go back from satsang just reinforcing some beliefs that you have, and you may miss what you actually need to hear in satsang. When we talk about openness, it is openness to that which we don't want to hear, maybe even more than that which we want to hear, because that mostly we already think we know. I have also been aware of this recently. You hear something and it confirms the paradigm in your own head, thinking, 'Oh, satsang is so valuable, I confirmed that.' But that's your own identity with the spiritual seeker who's trying to get somewhere. Exactly. I think okay, so what do we need to observe the mind for? To be at peace, I think. And without observing the mind or without not observing the mind, without either position—can you repeat that? I'm missing something. Without deciding 'I'm going to observe the mind' or deciding 'I'm not going to observe the mind,' without deciding either way, the one who makes this decision is going to be the mind. See, that's what I'm saying. Listen to what I'm saying. So without either of those decisions, you see what is there? Just being.

Yes.

Now, in just being, is there an attempt to do something or to figure out how to be at peace or any of that?

No. Any attempt, it comes from the effort.

Yes, yes. So can we live like this?

I hope so. I'm not dead.

Yes. So to live like this, to be free of notions, to be empty of mental constructs—which means only that we don't value them, not that they don't show up—to be headless or to live in the heart, whatever sounds better for you. Now, if the mind says, 'But what about the Self? But what about self-realization? What about God?' I want to ask you, and see if the answer can come from the heart. I want to ask you: when you are open and empty like this, when you are notionalized like this, are you just a bundle of perceptions, or is it apparent to you that there is more than just perceptions here?

There is more. There is one.

You see? So that which is beyond perceptions, you are not perceiving that obviously, isn't it? And yet you know that in your heart. This is intuitive knowledge. Okay, I'll go slowly. Yeah, the text I went very fast. So just—most of you were nodding when I said, 'Is there just a set of perceptions, or is there something beyond that?' Now, how to recognize that which is beyond perceptions? You obviously could not be perceiving that. So you're not perceiving that. So that is intuitive insight. That which you know without needing to perceive, without needing to think. So let's do this again, because I feel like it's very helpful. As you are fully relaxed, open, and empty, tell me if there is something more to you than just the perceptions you are perceiving. You don't have to define what that more is, you don't have to make conclusions, nothing. Just tell me if there's anything more to you.

There is more.

There is more. Very good, very good. You see? And this is universal. This is universal. Everyone can look at this and answer this question. So that which is more or beyond perception, how is that known? It can obviously not be perceived, isn't it?

Correct.

So to know that is self-knowledge. This intuitive insight is Atma Darshan, whatever word we want to use. It's just this. It's as simple as that. Now, what will happen if we go on a project to say that this which is beyond perception, I need to make it be seen objectively, I need to find an experience of it? How will that work out for us?

It's not, because any experience or perception is perceived.

It's going to be perceived. And that which is beyond perception, from our intuition we can say that that will remain unchanged no matter what perception appears. So this is the simplest way to recognize yourself. Self-realization is disappointment. Okay, let's dive further into this. That which is beyond perception, are you apart from that? Are you separate from that?

No.

In fact, if you were to again stay with the heart and speak from there, if you were to take a call and say, 'What is more primal to me? What is more intimate to me? Is it perceptions or is it this?'

This is more intimate.

Yes, beautiful. And intimate is just a word that we have to use, although there is no distance. So intimacy can still imply some distance, but what we're trying to say is that what is stable, what is unchanging, what is untouched no matter what is perceived, independent of that—so this is more primal. Now, is there any way in which this is different from what you are? And I hope none of you are visualizing. If you are visualizing, then notice that that is also perceived, and notice if there is something more to you than that visual that you are visualizing. That which is beyond perception, that which witnesses these perceptions, is it not our own selves, or is it something separate which we have ownership over, distance from? Doing very well. Stay with the heart, stay with your intuitive insight, and allow that to speak the words. So can we make a deal today and say for satsang today we will represent that, the most primal aspect of myself, and not the ephemeral, not the changing aspect, not the perceivable phenomenal aspect? Because that would be a true representation, isn't it?

Of course.

I'm going to spoil it by saying it's impossible to represent that, but at least it is better than representing the false. Satsang will be very silent today. Now, is there anything that you have to hold on to here? Are you doing this with your attention?

That's a good question. No. I feel my attention can go to something else, but right now...

And also, can attention go to the unperceivable? Because we are talking about that subtlety where even to make the attempt to direct our attention would be effort. We don't even need to do that. That effortless. Everyone with me? Are we doing this with our attention?

No, no, no.

So it is that effortless that even the attempt to direct attention would be taken to be too much effort. It's not needed for self-recognition, for self-realization. But attention reports to it.

I can see my attention going. Like, if there is a thought, attention can go in that direction.

Yeah, well, yeah, the sequence we can deliberate, but doesn't matter really. So another way of phrasing this exercise would be to say: what is apparent or known to us without needing attention? The emptiness of our own being, the non-perceivable nature of ourselves. Is it possible that you could be discovering the wrong Nirguna Brahman? Asking all of you, because all of you may—the mind will put it out to you, saying, 'But how can you say this is it? How can you really say this?' Is it not possible to discover two different things without quality? Difference comes from qualitative difference. Either the color has to be different, the shape has to be different, or the size has to be different. Some difference comes from a quality. But the qualityless cannot be discovered in two different ways. So confirm again that what you're finding about yourself is not a perception; it's beyond perception.

Yes.

So that which is beyond perception cannot be found in two different ways, in the sense that you could not do this wrong. It's not possible. Do you see that? You were looking for something which is beyond all perception, which is the—

Some difference comes from a quality, but the quality-less cannot be discovered in two different ways. So confirm again that what you're finding about yourself is not a perception; it's beyond perception. Yes. So that which is beyond perception cannot be found in two different rules, in the sense that you could not do this wrong. It's not possible. Do you see that? You were looking for something which is beyond all perception, which is the witnessing, which is unchanging, all of that. And you found that which is beyond perception. But here you have to confirm whether that is the right one, because there could be two different ones which are beyond perception? It is just not.

And the reason I wanted to do this exercise is because the spiritual seeker is elaborated here. And so the spiritual seeker in this being is elaborated, and when you sit and observe, it comes and tries to grasp something and take ownership.

Um, yes. But don't even grasp this for the moment. Just ask what I'm saying. Otherwise, what will happen is it will be making comments about itself. I keep talking about the thief dressed up as the policeman pretending to catch the thief. What has been shared in satsang is more than enough. You don't have to build on it. You don't have to do a constructive exercise of any sort. Otherwise, what will happen soon is that the unperceivable reality which you're being pointed to is forgotten. And because the mind loves to hang on to—ah, this is what happens, you know, this is what the seeker does—out from that, back into belief, you see? The seeker's belief about the seeker itself, which is just like the dog chasing his tail. So it doesn't help. Don't add an inch to what you're discovering through what is being pointed to you.

For your grace, Father. Now what do I have to do?

Just nothing. It's independent of that, isn't it? What is being pointed to is so far removed from the realm of doing and not doing, from the delusions of doers, that it has nothing to do with that. But because the habit seems to be to do, to want to know all of these things, then just remain open and empty till even that becomes just a statement, just a set of words. When you are non-resistant, the truth of who you are is apparent to you already. As you open, 'open' can sound like such a simple rule. 'Open, yes, yes, that's the first step in spirituality, we have to learn acceptance,' you see? It can sound like that. But once you try it, you notice that self-recognition is fully apparent and the taste of this world is fully vibrant. There is nothing missing. Just being open and empty.

My kids arrived in the area to test my emptiness.

Don't know that. Don't do anything at all. Yes, of course I know that your humor is very good and I enjoy it always. But what can happen is that I'm just ensuring that you're not taking this stuff seriously for yourself. Although I know you're joking about it, I want to make sure that—this is why I exposed it. And I didn't—I said it because I don't want to take it seriously. I just want to stay where I am.

Yeah. Remember, you know, just now you've seen for yourselves that which is beyond all perceptions. And 'all perceptions' includes all perceptions. There is no category of perceptions which this does not include. You've seen yourself beyond all the perceptions, every perception. So in reality, there is no level or meaning to some perception more than another perception, you see? But you cannot do this pretending to be a body-mind. Only from open and empty. Thank you.

Before we go to the next question, I just want to take a sort of quick poll and really check. So when we said when you open and empty, when you are relaxed, that which is beyond perceptions is apparent to you, how many feel a bit confused about that or unsure about that? Let's raise your physical hand, body's hand.

Um, when I follow the pointings, just like you did with Madalina, when the question is, 'Is there only perceptions or is there something else?' it's very clear to me. It's very clear that there's something which is not perceivable which just observes all those perceptions. Yes. Neither thoughts, nor be there are just things on the outside. It's very clear. And it's also very clear that I'm that. But on the other side, when I just don't follow the pointing, when I just relax into beingness, I could as well say, 'Well, I'm all of this.' And there's—it's like a little paradox where the mind likes to jump on, you know? Following the pointings, it's so clear. And when I'm—when there's just beingness and no thoughts, I also could just say, 'Well, that's all me.'

Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so let's look at this. So when you are just open and empty and you notice that there is something which is beyond perception—we are calling it 'something,' actually we are pointing to the non-thingness of it—and we are noticing that it is there. So this now, is it separate from that which is perceivable? Or is 'perceivable' just a thought experiment, a mental category that we provisionally create for us to follow this pointing in some way?

It's a little bit like a provisional creation.

That's exactly just to make the pointings clear, to make the pointer clear. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Perfect. So in what we notice now in that which is beyond perception, is that in opposition in any way? Is there any tension between that and that which is perceivable? Is there any dividing line, separation, any of that?

No.

And is the notion of separation, oneness, duality, any of this even valid now?

No, not at all.

Exactly. Okay. Now you're saying that when you're—apparently you are going to bring your attention to your beingness and allow it to rest there. So let's do that. Let's do that. Bring your attention to the sense of being in whatever way you can. And from there now, answer the same question: Is it just perceptions or is there something beyond perceptions even now?

I was about to say there's just perceptions, but...

Okay, so allow your attention to be in beingness. Allow the sense of beingness just to populate everything, for it to just populate everything in time and space. The entire universe is made up of this beingness. There's a sense of this beingness, yes? So this sense of this beingness—that which is aware of even this sense—is that perceived now?

No, this is not perceived, but it's there.

Yeah, it's always there. Yeah. That is what naturally happens when we are open and empty, you see? The beingness is fully apparent, and yet that which is beyond, before 'I am,' is also fully apparent. And everything in the play of beingness, you see, lights up with the light of attention. And because our attention is not distracted with our thought activity, with our mental activity so much, even the vibrancy of the world seems to go up, you see? But that is the last thing we should be concerned about, not the first. Yes.

So now let's do another experiment, all of us. I hope you're following along. As you open and empty, try to make this beingness not apparent to you.

It gets even more apparent.

Try to make that which is beyond perception not apparent. I've given the subtlest perception, which I say is on the cusp of perception and non-perception: the primordial vibration of being itself. So that which is aware of even this, try to make that not apparent to you just as you're open and empty.

It's like it's getting reinforced. It's not just like when you say 'try not to be,' then it's apparent. It's so much apparent. And when you say 'try not to be aware of even being,' then it's even more aware. I'm even more aware of it.

Now, this is the problem that consciousness has. The truth is too apparent. So when it created the Leela and it created this play of mind—I'm just talking nonsense, okay? This is just a fairy tale, don't take it too seriously. So when it created this Leela, this Maya, it was just like, 'I'm untouched by this, even if I've given myself a body through which I get a centrality of visual perspective.' You see, it seems like I hear through this. Even after that, I'm untouched by this. How is this game going to be any fun, you see? So then consciousness decided that we need a narrator, and we needed to have a powerful narrative. But then even with the narrator and the narrative, just like 'you are this body, you are this body,' this game is just no fun because nothing it is saying—all this world seems to be moving according to all of this play of Maya, but still nothing.

So then consciousness said, 'Okay, I am going to give myself the power to identify, the power to believe.' You see? This narrator, just like a child reading a fairy tale pretending that it is part of the story. 'I am going to give myself that power because, hey, I'm God, I can do anything.' So it gave itself the power and said, 'Okay, now I can buy into that. I am—because this body is so small, I need to make myself bigger. So I need to get a relationship which I can call mine, and then I'll be complete,' you see? So all this then, with the power of the narrative and the power to believe that narrative and the play of this perception, then it can seem like a viable game to play. But without all of this happening, this Leela, this Maya is powerless. Yes.

So now what is happening is that consciousness said, 'But what if using this power of belief, then I actually forget forever who I am? Because I've given myself—I'm God, I can give myself the power to identify as a body-mind, as whatever I want.' You see? But then if I give myself this power, then what would happen if I just then just use that power and I forgot? I said, 'Okay, now to ensure that I don't forget, because this game is fine, but my magnificence is much more than what is possible to play in this game, so I don't want to live like this forever. So we'll make sure that—I'll make sure that in the design of the game, there will be a point where there is a tiredness to this game. There's a tiredness about this game.' And that tiredness we call suffering. The quest to find something bigger, the quest to find, discover ourselves as something beyond this body-mind will be the product of this suffering. And then I will also give myself that natural intelligence which is here, the power to remind me that I am not this, I am not this. And that intelligence, we will call that intuition. And the way to come out of the delusion of being separate, of being a body-mind, is to access this true intelligence which is pointing us back to the truth of who we are. And this is what we call going from the head to the heart. So that's the game that is being played in satsang, in the world. And satsang is the part where we are sort of playing the game of learning how to go from head to heart.

The most astonishing—maybe astonishing is not the right word—is that even this body is just dissolving into kind of different visual and some perceptions. That's—this would—well, astonishing is maybe not right, but in beingness, this sometimes comes to me: 'Wow, even this is just—it's only some perceptions and I'm not this construct, this instrument.'

So in fact, effortlessly, all this insight is becoming apparent for you. And there comes a point where it will seem like too much hard work to try and play as if you are the body. Imagine having to go back to that mental operation and mental slavery. 'But this is what you need to have. You cannot be happy unless you've got this.' You know, this kind—I often go back, just like in the movie, it'd be no fun if it just ended. Pretty much sometimes a little bit of back and forth friction, and you see all that is required. So it keeps us, keeps consciousness related to this play, even the end game of the play.

Just so in the open, empty, Father, just one observation was, it feels effortful to go to the head. And the second was, there's one thought that did rise, that open, empty as one is experienced...

You cannot be happy unless you've got this, you know. This kind often grows back, just like in the movie. It'd be no fun if it just ended. Pretty much sometimes a little bit of back and forth friction, and you see, all that is required so it keeps us, keeps consciousness related to this play, even the end game of the play.

Just so in the open empty, Father, just one observation was it feels effortful to go to the head. And the second was there's one thought that did rise: that open empty as one is experiencing open empty, but is it a feeling?

Okay, so we'll look at this. So open empty, just a non-resistive non-state. But real politician for the moment, are you still here? I don't see you. I'm here, Father. Did you see me? One second. So yeah, non-resistive. Let everything come and go. Let everything come and go. All thoughts can come and go. All words can come and go. All perceptions can come and go. See, everything is allowed to come and nothing is allowed to stay, which is this natural movement anyway. So we are not grasping at anything. We are not understanding anything. Just come and go. Yes, yes.

Now, are there only perceptions here? Can I use the word 'here'? It simply is. Okay. Are they only perceptions perceived? Is that... is there something beyond perception? And don't answer from any peer pressure, just honest conversation between friends. Are there only perceptions? As you are completely open and empty, you notice that there is something that is not a perception. There is more. There's a wholeness, a fullness. Yes, but because it is beyond perception, it's very difficult to determine whether it is this way or that way because it is empty of quality.

Effortlessness, Father. It's a whole effortlessness.

Yes. And what can you say about it? Can you say that it is aware? Yes, yes. Can you spot any distance between now? So these perceptions may go away, may come and go, you see. But do you notice that this is unmovable? Because it has no quality that can move. No, it has... it just is. It just is. So this is the unperceivable reality of what you are. It is beyond all definitions. You cannot make a construct about it. At best, we can just point to it in these ways.

The second thing I want to ask you then is that, is this now when you are open and empty, is this when the opposition to experiencing the world... what is your experience with the world now? How many... I'm just using a word. Yes, yeah, exactly, exactly. Would you say that the perception of the world has dimmed or has it not?

It may seem like you're looking at the world for the first time because you will notice that your attention is not getting dissipated between the head and the actual just perceiving the world. See, but we don't have a question to any of that. As you lose interest in the mind—because we've done this experiment often, haven't we?—you said, try to look at this hand and pay attention to a thought clearly. Try to do both clearly at the same time. Can you do it?

It was like I had not seen the world. Is it because I was living in the head? Maybe as a child I saw the world.

So this is the beauty of self-recognition. This is the beauty of open and empty: that not only does that reality, which is the purest light beyond all perception, become apparent to you, but also the light of your being, the light of your consciousness, which gives light to everything in this universe fully. It is not as if the light of the being, a little bit goes there, a little bit goes there, a little bit goes there, you see. It is not quantifiable. And that is why I say don't dissipate your life. Notice your life should be, and everything that you see contains the full light of consciousness already in that perception.

So the beauty of this open and empty is that self-recognition. That which is beyond all perceptions is apparent, but for God to meet itself in all perceptions is also apparent. And therefore, my inclusion to all of you is that desire now... after the desire only if you... I just would already have. After this, what else can you want? In the tiniest light, you may have just woken up. There may be just a small, small opening in the curtain through which a little bit of light is coming into your room, but even in perceiving that, you're meeting yourself. It's gone. Thank you.

But nothing else is coming up. When we believe our thoughts, when we believe that there has become the truth about us, we believe in the existence of a meaning of a separate person. So recently I've been using the word 'me-some'. When we believe our thoughts, when we believe in the existence of a separate me, then I've been calling that 'me-some'. To be in Satsang is the opposite of how to be in Satsang. You don't have to be in this room. You don't have to be in this room, you see. Just when you're not in 'me-some', you're in Satsang. Thank you. Thank you.

Can you hear me? Yes, yes. Come on. There's an intuitive sense of what you are saying, that this is the unperceivable. You can't... this is here. What is, is unperceivable. And there's a sense of that it's somewhere located. The mind is saying there's a location in the... yeah, whatever, however you want to. My biggest concern right now is, though there's an intuitive sense, it's always like after these insights which happen, then there is such a big storm of the mind which comes. And in my case, I don't know if consciousness is playing this way, it's the heart symptoms happen, yes, and I slip into this panic.

Is it only my internet connection or is it frozen for everyone? Frozen. He's back. Can you hear me? I can hear you now. Yeah, I feel like we got the gist of what you are saying. I promise you, I promise you that if you remain in this open and empty, in this recognition of the Self, it is not possible that these things will have much power over you for much longer. It is not possible that you are having more pristine insight into the nature of your reality and the narrative still continues to have its power over you, to bring you to such levels of belief that you get into panic and all of those things in the body. Things will continue to happen as they must in all bodies, but you will find it very difficult to come into any such sort of mental, psychological states.

Yeah, because it's so... and it's only later that I see that, oh, I have a little problem saying that I slip into it. Something slips into that, something gives into that. But what I am stays as is. This intuitive stays, but something gives in. And it's only later, but in the moment when it's happening, something gives in and the whole narrative is reimposed through the sensations in the body.

It seems to be... it's not that the narrative is imposed through the body, but the narrative uses the sensations as evidence to prove its validity. Yes, the narrative uses the sensation to reimpose its validity. Yes, yes.

So is it possible to stay in this intuitive when this happens? This is my question.

Yes, yes. Not only is it possible, it will become more and more natural. It will become more and more effortless. Although initially it may seem like a choice which you're making—do not go to the head, to stay in the heart—initially it may seem like a choice, but you will notice that through grace it is happening. Like Bhagavan said very clearly that as long as it feels like a choice, make the choice. But ultimately you will see that all of it was also grace.

I really... because I know, you know, deep in my heart that Master's grace is so... I really need your help here to overcome this because it's blessings, whatever you want to call it, because it takes a lot of my attention and energy. Since after this has happened, it's become like it's living this narrative, it's living its own reality, you know, within. It's really, you know, it has its life of its own. And I see that now, that wow, this has become... it's like its own creature which is living, you know.

The more you think about that, the more you need to neutralize it. Sorry, sorry, I'm telling you, I missed the last words. The more you give that some shape, the more you have to neutralize it, the more you have to deconstruct it, the more you'll have to inquire into this reality. So my blessing to you is that just naturally, effortlessly, may you be open and empty most of the time. And as is natural for your life to play out, may all these things become lighter and lighter, like a feather. May they become easy. Thank you so much again and again.

Can you hear me? Thank you. So when he was talking with Madalina, and so this effortless place is very apparent. The beingness is like all the perception. But when you ask, 'But what is behind the perception? Is it apparent?' then this effort is coming back to find what is behind that perception.

Okay, let's do it together. So just relax first. Relax like we were saying last time. Fully relaxed. Nothing has to be done about anything at all. Just relax. Just like that. Now tell me, are there only perceptions? Effortless. Are there only perceptions or is there something other than perception?

I know what I should say but, yeah, I cannot. Whatever seems true right now, just say that. It's fine. Yeah, there is perception and I don't know what is behind. I don't know what is behind it. There's only perception, you're saying. Your report is there's only perception.

Yes. And if I was to insert another pointer there and say: so that which is aware of that there is only perception, is that also perceived?

I cannot find who, what is the one who is aware about the perception.

Yes, somebody. Because you are confirming it is only perception. So that which is aware that there is only perception, in what way is that one perceived? Or make it simpler: that which is aware of perception, how is that perceived? Are you aware of these perceptions or no?

This 'me', this bird of 'me' is very confused.

This is the problem of the spiritual. The question is simpler. This is the question with the innocence of a child. Be aware of these perceptions. Who's aware of the perception of hearing this voice?

I am aware of it.

You are. So this 'aware', how is that perceived?

In no way.

Then how do you know you are aware?

Because it is obvious.

Exactly. This obviousness is self-knowledge.

But when you say 'just stay there', so I don't... I mean, yes, it is obvious that I am aware, but...

Wherever, whatever makes it obvious to you, stay there. If it's obvious all of the time, then stay anywhere. If it's only obvious some of the time, then stay that way. Okay? However you are when it is apparent to you who you are.

Maybe the word 'apparent', because maybe my mind is translating, then I have to know what does it mean to be apparent.

Yes, yes, yes. Many have struggled with this 'apparent' thing. So 'obvious' is fine. In the way that that is obvious, 'obvious' is fine. Stay how it is obvious to you who you are.

Ananta Ji, and something else I would like to ask. You know, they took something from my skin and then they sent it for an examination, for investigation, is it a nice one or not a nice one? And this result I didn't get it yet. So I, you know, as the constructed body-mind, I am really afraid for this. So every day I'm just waiting for, 'Oh my God, maybe it's coming now,' and my, you know, my death statement or something like this. And I just would like to ask if you could bless about this or pray for me.

Before we go to Atma, let me see if I can look at some of these questions. 'Dear Father, the perception of loving sentiments, caring, friendliness, sweet emotion towards others, are all false? Your confirmation will help as there's a lot of baggage and attachment that comes with these pleasant perceptions and they're more difficult to discard as unreal.' Now, if you did not have these mental categories that this is loving sentiment, this is friendliness, this is caring, does this all go away? Even an infant who doesn't know any of these words loves them.

Dear Father, the perception of loving sentiments, caring, friendliness, sweet emotion towards others—are all false? Your confirmation will help, as there's a lot of baggage and attachment that comes with these pleasant perceptions, and they're more difficult to discard as unreal.

Now, if you did not have these mental categories—that this is loving sentiment, this is friendliness, this is caring—does this all go away? Even an infant who doesn't know any of these words loves the mother. If the mother did not go to any school and had no language, grew up in a tribe of lands or something, she would still love the child. So it is independent of all these constructs, you see. In fact, without boxing it, without labeling it, you may allow it to unfold in a much more natural way without the 'I should be like this' or 'this one should be like this towards me,' you see.

So, our labeling things as loving sentiment or this is caringness, friendliness, sweet emotion—when they say discard, I'm not saying discard this aspect of the human existence, you see. I'm saying discard the categories from your head and discard definitely the shoulds and should-nots, saying 'I should be like this' and 'I should not be like this,' and see what unfolds naturally. Yes, Smith has helped me with this; he says perception is through the senses and the mind, and when I say apparent, it is through intuition.

One says, 'My dear Father, how are you? I have been in Australia and I'm good.' Mr. Lords, okay, same idea. 'Can you please talk about how it feels from the perspective of the enlightened being after leaving the body?' The whole benefit to enlightenment is that there are no perspectives left. It's the fifth—in fact, this is the very question that the Buddha said, the fifth form, you know this. So I'm not really explaining it.

Hello. I just really wanted to, I don't know, just maybe check in. I just raised my hand and I feel like I could share some self-assessments or don't know, but like they are so fleeting that no, I don't know if I should even bother with that.

Give me a gist.

Self-assessment, okay. I don't know, I feel like I don't know. Like, I don't think anything like thoughts are there, like some psychological, some personal, some about things I need to do or to organize. But they're just like, so—it's not that far away, but it's just like they're not there. It doesn't matter, kind of feeling. And some feelings, let's say very personal, arise and it's just like, okay, it's experience, but it's not made like a big deal out of it somehow. And just like, yeah, I feel like I can say that, I think. But I don't think like that. And I don't know, when I somehow—I don't think about satsang, about God, like I don't know what. Just some self-assessments like, 'Oh, this is my life,' you know?

I love that one. No, you know, for years you've heard it all. You're saying that although all thoughts seem so unrelatable in some sense, but when they come to some specific thoughts, you still buy into? Is that what you're reporting? Or even that, no?

Even that is kind of like, 'Oh, I can't be bothered with that.' Like almost like an inner laziness to even look at that. Like it comes, blah blah blah. It's not even that, 'Oh, even not this.' It's just like, it's so neat. You're so neutral and no thoughts that it's neutral, exactly. Not all that, it's like open and empty. Yes, only because I'm speaking to you because I can't kind of—but like, so good. Oh yeah, like that. But I'm not sure if it's true, like that's the best. Like I'm saying this because I don't know. I don't know if I am, if I'm not. It's just like this kind of feel. If it's true, if it's not, it's real, not real, God, not God. I don't know, somehow it's like wiped out, not wiped out, you know? Like just like good, not good, not sure. Okay, it's nice to hear that it's good, but maybe I don't know, kind of like that. So yeah, but still there's like a feeling maybe that I need to check in. I don't know.

That's bad. You lose track and you lose the need to track the state of human existence, the state of what is happening. Is it good? Is it bad? Sometimes, of course, even in this case here, the state for years is that the approval of Guruji and his saying, you know, that reassuring, was still—seemed to have some potency and power here. And then even today, actually, if you can say, 'Hey, I heard your satsang and you know, I wasn't so happy and I still have something,' I would still have the thing. So some, of course, it's natural to have some of that, yes.

And yeah, I have to confess, like some time ago, like a few weeks ago, I had like for a day or two such a spiritual arrogance in me. I was so proud, so proud. I was like, I was just like, 'What is this?' Like I couldn't even believe where is it even coming from. Like the cable had such a surprise and it was like—it wasn't a nice feel to swallow. I even couldn't sleep at night because I was like, 'Oh, such a big, you know, jeez, I'm so enlightened, I'm not getting sleep.' No, they say we don't allowed it to pass, you know? And it just, I don't know, vanished for now, maybe. I don't know, hopefully. So with that, I'm leaving at your feet.

Sure. Yeah, even to say that it's not like so nice, like, 'Ah, maybe I should have said.' Okay, sounds like very good. I'm very happy. Thank you.

Here, yeah, I don't know what should I speak of. My heartbeat increases every time, I don't know why.

Good news, isn't it? I raise my hand and I come on the hot seat and nothing happens. That may not necessarily be better. This is also fine.

There are these two things. One thing is I am not seriously looking for the job and then there is also this counter thought that you are not even, you know, serious in your spiritual. This is good. How do we know serious is good? And maybe distorted. And is this a condition that has come from parents and society? Could be further. Why do you have to be serious? I mean, it's all like staying at home and then depending on my brothers, not earning my livelihood, then one thing starts attached to another one.

But you're open. You're not serious, but you're open. Are you stand closed?

There is also this concern that I am not serious about being serious. I'm putting it in the negative way.

You don't have to be serious about being serious, but you can't be not serious and closed. I don't know what means. At least closed means that you're allowing life to unfold in its own way, not that you—okay, we can do anything else, but you can have mental constructs about how it should be. 'I am in spirituality, so then I don't want to have a job.' Any of that stuff is happening?

There is this thing that the mind cannot predict the life. Yeah, whatever it is coming, it's coming from my mind and it's not true.

Yes, so leave this also. Leave the mind prediction, of course, and leave that it cannot talk. So like fully empty. Don't hold on to the tiniest notion. Don't hold on to any idea. Can the mind predict? I don't know. Can it not predict? I don't know. Just open. Don't fear fear and don't try to dissolve fear with the attitudes of spiritual concepts. Here comes, here comes. 'I'm just so non-serious about life, I don't know what's going to happen.' Be okay.

Okay. And then there is also this thing further, that suddenly something great realizes that the mind is rushing and then this spiritual concept comes: 'Who am I?' or 'Am I aware?'

Listen, before that thing comes up, something has already noticed that this is happening. And then is that also we love this cosmos of God's will, or is there something that I can do?

The point where I have to tell you that you must just relax. Let go of all your spiritual concepts. Throw the spiritual encyclopedia. Don't understand anything through a spiritual lens or through a worldly lens. You can throw both those lenses away. Nothing is anything. Don't put anything into any categories of conceptual understanding. Don't determine whether it is the will of God.

I always just think that my mind is too noisy or too busy is always there with me. And then one day I was watching this video of Mooji Baba where Baba says that there is this deep conditioning in us that mind needs to be calm for spiritual progress to happen or to see what you are.

So, listening to the mind about how the mind is not going to make the mind calm. You cannot get to manonasa by following the mana. Trying to destroy it makes it more strong. Any effort is using the wrong instrument. What is apparent to you effortlessly seeing? And what are you? Now, in the report that you have had about yourself so far, what does it have to do with that one? Which one? That one that you just recognize yourself to be.

It doesn't have anything anything to do with anything.

Exactly. So why am I telling you this? So that you don't value all that stuff which belongs to the non-existent one anyway. Okay, so let me spell it out a little bit more. Only in the mind there are opposites and categories. The mind of living the world is to try and put everything into the right category. This is the good way to live, this is the bad way to live, this is what I should do, this is what I should not do, these are my children, these are not my children, this is my life, this is not my life. So all of life goes in this categorization.

When you come into spirituality, it is not so that you can create a new box now which says, 'Okay, this is category of spirituality,' you see. If you're really listening in satsang, then your seven chakras will open up, okay? And if you say you can take all this knowledge and put it in like spiritual strategies—'If this was really happening to me, then by now I'd be fully open and empty'—so then what happens is the mind itself creates a box there. It says, 'Come, come, I've got all the goodies for you,' and everything that you've learned in satsang are lying as concepts over there. And you feel like they are goodies and they are actually candy and you're going to enjoy them, but actually the mind will oppress you using them, you see.

So all of satsang, especially satsang like this, what we call direct satsang, is meant to have a deconstructive effect, not a constructive research. If you're constructing a spirituality, if you're constructing a methodology, if you're constructing a way to live out of what I've said, then that is not truly what I'm saying. So open and empty is empty of everything, including open and empty, you see. And it is not open and empty so that the life of Srikant, who doesn't exist, can become better or give—or even to give clues in terms of how that life should go or not go, because that is being done perfectly well by consciousness.

So the design of satsang is just consciousness playing as if it needs a reminder about who it is, and that reminder shows up in this way. There's nothing you need to hold on to mentally. You don't have to work hard at it. It's not a classroom. There's no exam. There's no final exam, enlightenment exam, nothing like that. Just relax. So this has become like very important for me to say to everyone in satsang, which is: first you relax. In that spiritually wound-up state, everything that I'm saying is going into some other compartment of spirituality. 'Get it, get it, please understand, this is your chance, get like that.' So that's why I want to first tell you, just first relax. There's nothing, nothing will go to your heart, you see. The mind will try to deflect everything, make obstacles with everything. Little play that you heard me talking about, the whack-a-mole—whatever I say, it will say, 'Yeah, I can't.' It will be the mind receiving all of this. So first, yes, nothing is wrong. There is no trouble anywhere. Everything is fine. Don't—just relax. This is open and empty. As you are open and empty now, tell me, is what you are not apparent to you? That which is beyond all perceptions?

There is this, I don't know what we call, like an energy or like an emptiness filled with something. And then there is like a little, like a wall on which all this is happening and that is being seen. Yeah, and if I was to—

Yeah, I can't. It will be the mind receiving all of this. So first, yes, nothing is wrong. There is no trouble anywhere. Everything is fine. Just relax. This is open and empty. As you are open and empty now, tell me: Is what you are not apparent to you? That which is beyond all perceptions?

There is this—I don't know what we call it—like an energy or like an emptiness filled with something. And then there is like a little wall on which all this is happening, and that is being seen.

Yeah. And if I was to ask you, all of this—who is aware of the energy, the field of consciousness, the screen of consciousness, the images, all of this? That which is aware, is that—can we even call that an energy? Does it have any energetic quality?

No, no.

Just wanted to clarify that because many times we may feel like awareness is a form of energy. So, the final tip I have for you is just keep your spiritual mind also aside. Your spiritual mind is not your heart; it's not your intuition. It is the one posing as if it is your intuition. How to know if you are truly with your intuition? If who you are is what is apparent to you, then you can follow that intuition.

And Father, what is this vibration or sound within? It's always like if there is, let's say, there is a power cut all of a sudden, it fills the whole space like a strong vibration. What is it? In which box can I put my explanation of what this is?

It must be surrounded by categories of what something else is, what that is, what that is. Do we know what anything is? So what am I saying? I'm pointing you to the human condition, which can ask these questions from the mind, but the mind does not have the capacity to receive the answer. The mind is just a bundle of thoughts. So what you can receive in your mind is just a concept. But concepts are what I'm taking away from you, so why would I want to give you a new concept? And then maybe also this annoying desire that: 'How can I use this?' Anything conceptual will only trouble you eventually, so I'm not going to indulge in that. Tell me something that your heart doesn't know already. Rest in your intuition enough to first audit that and then say, 'Okay, this I don't know really. Can you tell me?'

Remember that anything true where you don't know, you can never know. And where it is known, it is never unknown. It's only a question of the right instrument. This will take the journey out of the spiritual search. If you claim that 'I don't know what is my truth, what is this, what is love, what is God, what is Guru, what is anything valuable,' there where you don't know, don't expect to find out. You can never know over there. There must be another aspect of your being where this is already, and you're just moving away from that false knowledge, that false container of concepts which we think is knowledge, into true knowledge which we call intuition or intuitive.

So, you noticed where you didn't know? Did you notice where you didn't know the answer to the question you asked? I mean, my mind wants—yes, we don't know in the mind. So use that as a clue to understand that you can never know the answer to this. Not to try and feed it the answer; it has no mouth to receive the answer. It is just a bucket of concepts. No true insight can ever come in the mind, only in your heart. So when your mind complains saying, 'I don't know this; if I knew this I'd be free,' say, 'Good, you don't know this.' But also, I ask for your blessings.

Okay, okay. Let's go to Amrita.

Yes, I guess very tired. This is the thing, the fatigue is the more than that part of the mind. You keep on cancelling.

So I was going to ask you the question I asked everyone in the last satsang, which is: How do you know? How do I know what? So you're going to tell me what your mind has been saying and troubling you with. So how do you know? So you know what is happening through you, what the mind is doing to you through the story that the mind is telling you. How can that be the solution to anything?

Yeah, so my question was, my narrating the story is—it happens sometimes I believe in that and sometimes I don't.

How do you know this is what happens to you?

I'm conscious about it.

Your awareness is holding on to the memory of what happens to you.

I'm just aware that this is happening and then...

So is your intuition telling you that this is what's been happening with you, or is your mind telling you?

It's completely mind.

So if you can find your mind's idea that 'this is my problem'—and has your problem changed since, like, the seven years we've known each other? Problem is always the same. So if we keep buying the mind's interpretation of what the problem is, then you feel like the mind is our friend, that mind tells us 'this is what happens with you.' Okay?

So the thing is like, I know—I mean something knows here that this is not true.

Okay, what is that something?

There's a seeing or feeling here that's not true. It is happening, but it is not true. There's something, some desire to happen that way takes it a little far, like 'I want this to happen this way.' But then there's another sense to it that what I want might be a disaster. Like what I'm wanting could be also a disaster. But then there's something which is very compelling at times, so very sticky at times. For like, I mean from past two weeks I'm being really down and in this whole process, now I don't feel like even working. The challenge is that there's no pull or there's no thing to work, and then to that a lot of stories are built in the mind.

Yes, my child. I want to tell you very, very—it may sound a bit hard, but this report is also mind, isn't it? So that you cannot cure the poison by inhaling more poison, you see? If the poison comes in the shape of 'I'm going to help you get rid of the mind,' but it's still poison, are you going to digest that? Are you going to ingest that? So until you don't stop relying on the mind's reports about what your problem is, until then you cannot be rid of the mind because you're giving it the truth value, saying that what you determine to be my problem is my actual problem. Now, who are you in all of this story? You are the body-mind, you see? So if you want to fix life from having that lens on—that 'I am going to take the mind's perspective on first, that I am this body-mind, that time is real, I had this past, I'm going to have this future'—if you put all that first as a precondition, let's say, 'Okay, now how can I solve it from within that?' It's like first putting on the kaleidoscope and then saying, 'Show me God within the kaleidoscope.' To see God, you have to first get rid of the kaleidoscope.

What can you truly say from your heart about your reality? Perfect. Look at that. Don't go to the head. Where can we go to determine our actual reality? Because that's what we want to presume. We don't want to spend the rest of our life solving problems of the non-existent one, isn't it? So what is that source of knowledge which can even tell us what is the true question that I have? It cannot be the mind itself. I mean, then there is no true question from the mind. Cannot be. Because the voice of the false will never be on the side of the truth saying, 'Ask this, ask this, then you'll become free.' And how many times have you played that game where you take the mind's motion to be true about your life and you define yourself as if you're a body? And then how does it work out? Only that notion has to be removed, isn't it? That's always been the only solution. It is not from within that construct that we can ever find a solution.

But the mind, of course, will tell you, 'Then what am I supposed to do now?' See? But he'll keep proposing the false one as if it is true, as if it is your reality. Don't buy into that proposal. You're good at this, no? When you get offers from outside—I know you get a lot of business offers, people want to buy factory, they want to buy land, you get all these offers, isn't it? So you evaluate them, no, as if they are true or not. So do the same thing with your head. If you keep buying into the head's notion that 'this is what happens to you, I keep getting stuck in this and this is what happens and I don't want to work,' and then there's all of that, you see? It's just the head's idea of the functioning of the body, which has nothing to do with your reality. So empty of your head, become headless and speak from your heart like you did in that one moment where you realized everything is fine, it's perfect. You can live like this. You can live like this. We don't have to just use the physical environment of satsang to bring ourselves in that openness and that emptiness and then, when satsang is over, get back into the mind to deal with life. You can deal with the entirety of life from the same space.

So what is happening? So I've been teasing them, and that's why I was asking. I've been teasing everyone, at least those who are living in Bangalore. So I'm saying, 'So how's it going? How's it going? How's it going?' From where can we get an answer? If I say, 'How are you?' where do you have the answer? Where can we go for that? So none of that business, none of that business. Understand? And it's not a mask that we put on; it is emptying yourself of all the masks, and you can live like that. Why I'm reinforcing is that maybe there's an idea that when I'm working, when I'm dealing with other personal things, then I have to work from the mind or something like that. It's not true.

Yeah, that I have realized in the past, and in fact, it doesn't happen like that. So much of calculation doesn't happen. It has somewhere—it has to just happen naturally. Something just feels right, or sometimes it just doesn't.

How will you know when something is mental or it is intuitive? You know when it is from the head with so much of rush and so much of calculation. And when you are intuitive, what you are truly is apparent to you, and yet life can unfold from there. It becomes more effortless. So now, intuitively, what is the report?

I just believe in what the mind says and then the circle starts.

So until we speak next time, you're going to not do this. Not that it's a sin or something, not that if you do this once then I'll get angry or something. I'm just saying that just hold it in your heart. Just like, until we speak next, you will not listen to your mind. If you end up listening, then gently come back to the heart. It's not like an oppressive exercise.

So something becomes quite very quickly one with it at times, like there is no—who says?

I'll hear your words from the heart when they're from the heart. Blessings to the body to heal from other things.

Ah, yes. We were going to talk about this and then I didn't respond to the message, so sorry about that. Wanted us to be there. Oh, hello. Namaste.

Yeah, yes. Heart beating. I have to expose something to you. I'm postponing from satsang to satsang. I clearly can observe that there is something, a part in me wanting a personal outcome.

Ah, yes, yes. You can observe that there's an aspect of you which is proposing that it is pointless unless you get a personal benefit.

Yes, yes. And it relates—it came, it was triggered again after what Satyam said and Aniko. It's concerning health and the body. And now it's a little bit—and I feel ashamed about that now. That I got some—my personal life, I got peace. My personal life is—I don't think about it, and it has to run like it runs. Yeah, there is this attachment too much to the body and an idea.

Yes. And so if I may ask you—I know that all of you are tired of hearing this—but how do you know this is your problem?

No, it's not my problem. I know that it's not a problem, and I experienced that God is running my body and all. I went through COVID completely alone, no friends near, no neighbor there, and I surrendered. I had to surrender and it worked out. Yes, I'm fine. But like, if there's—it's a part of me wanting a guarantee.

Yes. How do you know there's a part of you wanting a guarantee? Observing mind.

I know that all of you are tired of hearing this, but how do you know this is your problem? No, it's not my problem. I know that it's not a problem, and I experienced that God is running my body. I went through COVID completely alone; no friends near, no neighbors were there, and I surrendered. I had to surrender and it worked out. Yes, I'm fine, but it's a part of me wanting a guarantee. Yes, how do you know there's a part of you wanting a guarantee? Yes, observing mind. It's smart, coming from observation.

It's not observation, my dear. Just starting, sorry, for one heart, the thief pretending to be the policeman. Yes, in this case, pretending to be your friend telling you, 'Now the only problem is this.' Actually, you have no problem. In your heart, what is the problem? No problem. As you open and empty, you see God's presence is here. In God's presence, how can there be a problem? No, nothing is there. But when the mind says it, it puts on the spiritual mask and uses what we learned spiritually and says, 'Now you have too much personal attachment.' And when we take that to be true, then we take ourselves to be what? We take ourselves to be the spiritual seeker, the body-mind again, isn't it? So be very wary of making any sort of constructs about yourselves. Just examine: how do I know this? How do I know? And if it is the same one that we are trying to be free from which is proposing the solutions, then obviously that cannot be the solution.

So we may also say, like I'm half-joking, we may say, 'Okay, the mind is proposing I have this problem; my real problem must be something else. This cannot be it.' And soon you'll run out of all problems that you can place onto yourself. So whatever we think we want, we don't want actually.

Yes, that's somehow I know. I'm one with you. My mind wants you to solve my problem.

Burn it. Just take it and burn it. Yes, remember, I always say the way to suffer is to try and solve non-existent problems, independent of who should solve it. Once we get into the belief system that there is this problem, you see, it is... but how is the problem possible? Like, what is the problem? Problem would mean something contrary to the will of God, contrary to the will of the shining light which is our very presence. It cannot be contrary. Nothing can be contrary to that. And don't waste a moment trying to convince your mind about anything at all. Just let it be. Where can we go to get a true report about ourselves? So this takes out all this conditioning from the very root. Our conditions rely on our mental conclusions about the state of our existence: 'This is what's happening with me. This is my current thing.' But how do we know?

All my little blessings. Body is recovering well from this thing now. Yes, I recovered fatigue, but I recovered well. Yes, thank you.

Let's go to Janak.

Hello, can you hear me?

I can hear you, my dear.

Hi, I haven't talked in a while and I would like to say thank you. I think today is the day to expose some things because I think that even though my life is generally getting easier and in general I think there is some spirit, from time to time I can sense some spiritual stiffness. I think it could be because of the knowledge again. Again the knowledge, the spiritual knowledge. From this can come sometimes some different forms of expression. I once even had a very, in a funny way, I went once to the shop and two ladies at the counter laughed straight into my face. I can sense why, because I went there and I was like, maybe some seriousness, tiny seriousness on the face, like maybe I'm expecting some reaction from the people for my enlightenment or something like this.

Yes, 'Recognize you've come!'

And I guess I'm like, this is making me tired because there's so many beautiful situational moments and I'm missing out on that because of these personas, spiritual personalities. I would really love to ask you for your help to make it, as life goes on, to expose it or somehow dissolve it.

I really am happy to see that there's a certain lightness, lightness in your report. There's certain openness in the way you're expressing even about this. So, very nice. And that will help you. This lightness and openness will take away all of this. I want to share a story. I was just telling them the other day also, if I can share. So, there was a boy who used to come to satsang here a few years back. And we went to Rishikesh during Guruji's satsang. In one of Guruji's satsangs, this boy felt like he really got it. Felt like, 'I've got it. I'm enlightened. That's it.' So he went outside the satsang hall and he was just standing outside the gates, you know, the satsang initiative. So, outside the gates of that satsang, this lady, this western lady—he was an Indian boy—and this western lady just started coming towards him with great purpose. So he started thinking to himself, 'Is it happening now? Can they recognize me now? Can they see that I'm free?' So what happened is that this lady got to him and she said, 'Can you please tell me where the laundry shoes are so I can go get our laundry shoes?' So that got the whole thing like that. So you don't have to worry about these things. Life will make sure that it takes care of any spiritual ego that is developing as long as you contain... if you have the same lightness and openness that you do now, I don't see any danger of that ego becoming too strong.

Thank you. So I hope it will. And thank you for coming each Friday to be with us here. I will see how it goes. If there's anything else to expose, I don't know for the moment, but thank you.

Welcome. Okay, let's go to the next one. Kalinda?

Oh, thank you, Father. That rose represents this head, please excuse. I went because it's so early in the morning, fell asleep again and woke up in a panic because I believed I'd lost the satsang. Hopefully a few... and that's on it as well. Can I go slowly?

Yes, okay.

I just walked outside. Every time I walk outside, I always look at the birds and think, I mean, there's nothing happening. I just try to know that, like, first there's nothing happening. And there's a noticing the last three days that something's been very panicky, and remembering that the one that's not true, even the one speaking now, has nowhere to go anymore. The walls are gone, the ceiling's gone, everything's gone. And there's strong thoughts coming that are grabbing and would so much like to expose it. It's always 'everybody else has got it, everybody else has got it.' When I look at the screen and I look at all the beautiful beings and they're so relaxed and they're smiling and they have their eyes closed, there's an 'I' that wants to be like them. There's a noticing that I'm looking again too personal and not looking for my true place at this moment, Father. It doesn't feel very pleasant. I don't know why I can't relax the body. There's a noticing because when one woke up in the morning, just even though I didn't understand anything, just closed my eyes, I just knew that we knew that place where to go to. And then watch the rest of the day, this one speaking on the screen, and I was able to always say 'that one.' But now, I am the one in the dream. That's what it feels like. So when I close my eyes, it's as if I'm in the dream right now and then don't know what to do. Can't sit still. The mind's going so fast. I watch also Guruji at the same time, and you said signs that are out, and the one that was just out really... I see everything is just for me anyways. Everything is just meant for me because it's my world and everything's speaking to me. And I watch Guruji and I hear him saying, 'How long are you going to identify?' And every time that happens, I see the little tricks during the day, even messages coming in pulling me into identification. And he just said to go sit with it, and can't sit anymore. Just can't sit. And it's noticing... I don't know how to explain this, but I was watching the retreats the last few days, the old ones that I was with Guruji, and they were making so much sense that I could see from my true place that this one is non-existent. It doesn't exist. And why am I speaking from here right now? And when this happens right now, I go on a mad rush writing to Issa, 'I'm in the head, how do I get back into awareness?' Watching it, this one likes to talk too much.

It's fine. Okay, so what's coming here is that it almost sounds like there's a war going on. Yes, there's a war going on and obviously you're tired, as if you're a soldier in the war. The thing is that there is no war going on. The war is only between two compartments in the head. So there's a spiritual compartment of the head which says, 'Okay, now you have to be in your true place. You are not being in the true place. Please come to the true place. This was the true place, this is the false place.' Then there's an aspect of you which is the other part of the mind, the mind which says, 'Everybody else seems to be getting it. Why are you not getting it? How come they are smiling and happy and what's wrong with you?' So can we see, at least first to start with, that both of these aspects are just aspects of the mind and therefore just using thoughts to propose the nature of your reality right now? So this idea that you have to be a certain way and only then you are free is also just an idea from the mind, and it is making you tired. It is visible that you're tired because you're fighting a war, but the war is only in the head.

What do I do? What will happen?

What will happen is that the mind will try to use even this to make what I'm saying as part of the same war, to say, 'Ah, you're too much in the war and you must get out of the war.' So it'll use that in the spiritual aspect, in the compartment of your head, and say, 'Now I must get out of the war,' you see. So what is the way to be out of the war? It's known: open and empty.

But how to be open and empty right now, Father? Because I've been in the head thinking for two days, and when this voice... I know this voice is speaking right now, it's a false voice because it starts to shake. How to go back to being a witness for one week till we meet next?

You have to forget all spirituality. What does that mean? Like, forget everything that you heard in satsang. Forget about it.

Do I stop watching it?

Forget about everything. You can watch it, but don't remember what you hear. Don't try to use what you hear. Just watch it as if it's music.

Wait, that's so challenging.

Because it's not challenging. It's just like... you have to watch it as if you don't understand the language.

I don't understand. Yes, that's it.

That's how to do it. That's how to do it, Father. But I don't want to live like this. This isn't... like right now, I've been in a very big panic because it feels like I'm on the screen, like I'm wrong hearing Guruji. How do I stop? How do I stop listening to Guruji?

You must listen to Guruji, but don't try to execute what he's saying through your head, you see. He's speaking to your heart. He's doing a mind bypass, isn't it? Now, if you take everything that he's saying and make it things in your mind, then that will just become part of this war. So you're just at war with yourself, you see. Two aspects.

It's the one speaking, and it's always the one speaking. Even my son says that because he follows you as well. He said, 'So it's the one speaking that's the problem. You need to be quiet. You need to watch that one.'

It's not the one speaking. It's really what you're believing. So if you're just expressing what you're believing, then sometimes we may say, 'Okay, who is speaking? Who is speaking this?' This is it. But what that means is: what is it that you're really believing?

So right now, what is your heart saying?

Can't hear it, Father. It's like... good time.

Don't worry. Don't rush.

How to hear? Very panicky at the moment, Father. I can't... you can't even sit still.

The problem you need to be quiet. You need to watch that one. It's not the one speaking; it's really what you're believing. So if you're just expressing what you're believing, then sometimes we may say, 'Okay, who is speaking? Who is speaking?' This is it. But what that means is: what is it that you're really believing? So right now, what is your heart saying?

Can't hear it, Father. It's like... good time. Don't worry, don't rush. How to hear? Very panicky at the moment, Father. I can't... you can't even sit still. You start pacing back and forth. Do you remember the first time we spoke and you brought me to that place? I was able to see myself as a space and not the person. Yes, but it's okay anyway. So we'll just look at it this way: everything that is being said by your mind, allow it to go. Tell me where the difficulty is in the body.

Your mind is saying this, no?

It's just a... there's a restlessness because I'm thinking.

So allow... expose your next thought as it comes and allow it to go.

There's so many thoughts.

Yes, but they can only come one at a time.

They come pretty brutal sometimes, like hopelessness. 'How you're going to look this way? Look at you, you're on the bed, you're shaking, you might as well die.' Things like that come. I'll be honest at this moment because I don't know who I am anymore. They're coming so strong.

And who's looking at these thoughts?

I don't know.

So it's not you.

No. It's easy when you say it now.

So who's looking at it now? Oh no, it's not you. It's not. No one's speaking. The one speaking, can you see that one? It's not true. Then how can it speak to... it's easy, Father, when it's speaking like this, but then the Satsang closes and what to do? Because the day is spent sitting like this trying to get back into the heart. How do I take this with lightness? And I'm speaking, there's nothing happening, just living in the head.

Oh there, look at all these beautiful faces right now. Just look at them. I look at Judith and I look at Stephanie and Mooney and Peter, and there's something covering for them to see them as myself, my heart. And they're so relaxed and they're just sitting there just with themselves. Are you able to distinguish between the head and the heart?

Always, but not at this moment. Not the last little bit.

So let's start now. Allow the head to come and go. It's good to breathe. It's good to be. What you're doing then is good.

I'm afraid, Father. There's something very afraid.

Notice everything that you report. Notice if it is a thought or its intuition. It starts coming. That which is a thought, you just let it go.

It felt in the body like it starts to... it starts to come in a very bad panic. I don't want to keep the story anymore. Anything that's the thought, you'd let it go. Um, how come when this is happening, just staying here, the body gets... it's very tense. Is this Atma? No, but it's... I can't sit still. It's the thoughts being believed in and creating it in my reality. Is this a thought?

Yes, everything. Don't value any thought for a few minutes. Don't value anything.

Father, this moment I just want to go stay down at your feet and be this. So tired of this burden.

At my feet only means one with me in the heart. Yes, it is always with you. My heart is always with you. I'm just showing you that as you let go of the head, the heart will become so apparent to you.

Show me how to do that.

It's very simple actually. It's your true state, if you can call it that, and only the head is trying to convince you otherwise. And the head can only try to sell it to you one thought at a time. But if you continue to value its report about you, then it will be as if your heart is not clear to you or it's not visible to you.

Well, it's coming out. The thoughts when they come out, it's become... it's a forgetting that I'm looking at them.

Forget about everything. Just let go of one thought at a time. Forget about trying to be the witness. Forget about any spiritual position. Everything. Don't have to hold on to anything at all.

It feels um, like I have nowhere to stand on at the moment.

Another thought. Just let it go.

I don't know how to describe the sensation.

Don't. That's the best thing. Don't describe. Don't define anything at all.

But it doesn't feel relaxing.

And don't worry about relax. Just forget everything. Just let the thought go. That's all.

It's um... I don't know how to ask this because this is wrong. How do I stop the thoughts coming? So right there, they're not being looked at. They're just... there's a trying of attention inside to come away from the thoughts, a way to place the attention. You feel like your attention is too much going to the thoughts?

Yes, very much lately.

Okay. Do you want me to give you a sort of tool or mechanism to help you with this?

Please, please. Because right now, just yes.

Okay. Have you ever tried to keep your attention on your breath? How did that work?

Everything's been working fine, but I'm going to expose something and I believe that's what it is. So there is a noticing that this one grabs a lot and grabs a lot. And I saw... there's a saying that I heard that the wave cannot hold on to another wave; it's got to sink down to the bottom. And this wave that is speaking now is going from one to another, is grasping at other Satsang members because there is a... I posted it the other day. There is this want, need to be in a Satsang with another. And I notice that I reached out to a Satsang member but was looking at her not as myself, but my heart, but as a person of wanting a friend. And being personal instead of being in my relationship with God. And I sat down and said, 'This is about God, you know? This is about the Lord of the universe who I am one with.' And it's realizing that there's too much attention going to the imaginary one. She's gotten way too much attention, too much energy. And I can't help but speak of Guruji because he's been my best friend all these years and I hear him speaking and he keeps saying, 'You're giving it spiritual muscles.' I keep hearing him saying that you have to stay as the being, it's just going to be open and empty.

Yes, you're speaking this. And maybe when I started sharing Satsang, I used to often say that my arch-nemesis is the checker guy. I don't know if you've ever heard. Now, the checker guy is the aspect of the mind which hears the words in Satsangs and uses them to oppress you. So what happens is that if I say, 'Just bring your attention to your breath,' then the checker guy will take that on and say, 'Ah yes, yes, yes, this is what you have to do.' And then tomorrow it will say, 'No, you're doing it so badly.' Father said keep your attention on the breath. So that aspect of your mind which tries to be your spiritual helper, your spiritual guide, but is still the mind—that is the one which... yes, this checker which... the only antidote for in a way is to meet me in the heart. Because everything that I say to you, that checker guy will take and say, 'Ah, you're not doing this well, you're doing this.' So it uses the spirituality of Satsang itself, what you've heard in all Satsangs, to oppress you with instead of help you become open, become empty, you see? So what is causing you all the suffering and all this trouble is this checker guy which is saying, 'You're not like this, you should be like that. Guru says like that,' you see? So it's using all of that to just trouble you with this so-called spirituality. Real spirituality is just meant to make you open, just open you up, not to oppress you mentally, trying to get you to be a certain way, try to get you to be like others or some emotions like that. That has nothing to do with any of this. Now, the only way to be free from that, because it sounds spiritual, it sounds like it's saying the truth, it is using the words that it's heard in Satsang, but it's actually the spiritual ego which then wants to take the words on and make them your own in some way. But that is not what the words are for. The words are so that you can leave that aspect of your being. Let it be. Let it say whatever it is.

Okay. At this moment now, the attention is here. How do I stay like... how to become open and empty and be aware and stay there in the silence?

Just for a few days, maybe you can just keep your attention with your breath as much as is natural without it becoming compulsive or like a practice that you have to do 100% well or something like that. Just lightly, lightly. Whenever you remember, just keep your attention with your breath, just with the in-breath and out-breath, and just allow it to just unfold in the most natural way. Just be concerned with the breath.

It feels like a deluded state, if that makes sense. Seems like a white state, a deluded state.

That's okay. Just getting you to relax a bit in this. If we drive ourselves into a spiritual frenzy—that's what happened in the last few days—and we drive ourselves into a spiritual frenzy by belief in spiritual concepts from the spiritual aspect of our mind, then that is not... yes, that is not in service to your reality. So if you just allow your attention to be with your breath for a few days, maybe you come out of this sort of frenzied state where what I'm pointing to is actually very effortless and natural. But within the frenzy, it can seem very difficult and confusing and difficult to hold on to.

But it even troubles them at this moment to sit and do that. See, it's again a seeming challenge at the moment to even do that, to just stay with the breath. So something difficult.

Yes, yes. What in the past, with all the experience of so much spirituality, what seems to have helped you in the past?

Not giving the energy to the one that was speaking now. It was always waking up and just meditating on the one who I am, and then it was almost seemed like a gap, if that makes sense. I was able to see her, him, the one speaking now, Father. But now there's such a habit of speaking in a relationship, so being that one again.

So the exploration into who witnesses that one is helpful? You feel it's easier to do the witness?

It's so helpful.

Okay, then this is very good. It's pretty good because it pulls back the attention to my true place. And it's, you know, I was able to watch these Satsangs and not really laugh at the one I'm talking on the screen and say, 'She's taking her part too seriously.' And me myself would start laughing. And now it's being taken as me, and that's not who I am. It's been fed a lot.

Yes, so use that. Use that tool to remind yourself and find out who's the witness of all of this. Father, you said... you said that it's good that this is happening because the one speaking is not true. Did I say label? Yes, I have very bad memory of the things now. The first time we spoke, it was the same thing, the panic, and then you guided and it was... and I could see that the imagination that's been affected and the state is a space. And that's what really was so beneficial, was to see who I am as a space, the space of awareness.

Yes, but now the attention so much has been on the imaginary one, forgetting on the space. I'm not the one speaking. So my full, full blessings are with you. Follow that which has helped you in your quest so far and follow your heart in terms of what is it specifically. If you feel like the question about what witnesses this or who witnesses this, that of course is very beautiful. She has to go, he has to go. And there's a terrifying fear of being in that space of who I am, like following the invitation or just... she was grasping to hold on. There's this imaginary one and not enough being. Does that make sense?

Please don't worry about making sense. Just... you said that it's helpful to check what witnesses all of these. So check who is the witness of all of this.

That's where the... there's a scene because the attention is getting pulled so much in the mainstream and it starts to spin really fast sometimes. Don't know if that makes sense, that the mainstream is spinning, spinning, spinning, racing, full, full, full.

Blessings. Which is this that's scaring me? When you're talking like that, it's killing you. No, why is she just kidding? Because...

About making sense, just you said that it's helpful to check what witnesses all of these. So, check who is the witness of all of this. That's where there's a scene because the attention is getting pulled so much in the mainstream and it starts to spin really fast sometimes. I don't know if that makes sense, that the mainstream is spinning, spinning, spinning, racing, full, full, full.

Blessings. Which is this? That's scaring me when you're talking like that. It's killing you, no? Why is she... just kidding. Because it sounds like... is a bit tired now, so that's why it's not that forceful and land mode is off at the moment. I'm sorry, I've been teasing them saying land mode comes on sometimes these days, and when the body is tired, the land mode comes off. So the land mode is off now; the body is a bit tired.

I don't want the psychological mind. I don't want to be in that. I want to watch that and not have it affect who I am anymore. Yes, thank you, Father.

Are you ready? Thank you, thank you. Let's go to the last one for today.

Do you want to come again? Yes. Hi, Father. Hello. I have so much love for you, Father. You have no idea, Father. I wanted to ask you about the mind and stuff. I'm in the streets right now, I'm sorry. No way. No, the mind is a mechanism, right? Like, it's not a real person. It's not an entity. It's a bundle of thoughts, right?

Exactly. It's not like a tangible me. It's like more energy than anything else, right? Absolutely.

Okay. I love you, Father. I just wanted to come up here with you for a moment and just go at your feet, bow at your feet, and keep my head there, you know? Can you keep my head there, Father? I love you so much. I have so much love for you. It's infinite. Like, my heart is exploding right now.

Oh, so big, big hug. Nothing. I love you. Okay, I'm going to mute myself now. Where are you walking? Where is this? What city is this?

I'm walking to the bus stop right now. I'm going to my house with my boyfriend. You want to see him?

Yeah, say hi.

Hello. Hey, how are you doing?

I'm good, and you?

Good. I'm good.

Where are you guys? Where are we right now? Yeah, where? How do I get there? I have to look up how to get there and stuff. Like, when I get out of the airport to Bangalore, I want to figure it out.

Yes, you can. It should be... you have to take a flight maybe to the Middle East and then come to Bangalore from there. Two flights. You'll have to probably change the plane. You'll have to take two flights. Like my son just went to America because he's studying that, so he had to stop first in Abu Dhabi in the Middle East and then he's going to America from there.

Okay, Father. Okay, I will probably go. I have to work first. I have to start working and saving my money up so I could go to Bangalore. Can I stay in a guest room or like in a hotel?

We'll organize something. You come, don't worry.

Okay. Can I come with my boyfriend?

Yes, yes.

Okay, thank you. We're going to go to end. Is that our bus? Oh no, that's 103. There's a 101.

Yes. Thank you all so much for being here today. Okay, love you.