You Cannot Be Proud and Love at the Same Time - 25th March 2024

But while it is seeming like a full effort, it is important for us to make it. It is important for us to make it while it is seeming like an effort because the whole design of this play is to make it difficult for us to stop playing the game, you see, which is every game designer's intent, isn't it? That you must keep playing the game, must keep playing the game. So this Maya, this Leela, is the masterful design which is so compelling that it keeps us engaged in playing this game in denial of a much greater reality. And that denial of the much greater reality is what we are attempting to break by coming to satsang, by coming to the company of that which is true.

What am I saying? I'm saying that our human existence is actually made up of the truth. Our life is given; it comes from the truth. But after the waking state arises, we take ourselves to be an object in this objective world, you see, with no way out except that which has a glimmer of that which is objective but is predominantly beyond perception. You see what I'm saying? Maybe sounding too complicated; I try to make it simpler.

So we have this human life. In human life what are we concerned about? Relationships, our transactions, our money. It seems like our parents are our real parents, our children are our real children. It seems like all our friends are actually existent. And in all that transactional behavior, what has gone missing is: where does this life come from? What is the source? What is the light which is giving light to this life? That seems to be neglected. That is why it is called Maya, the greatest con artist, which is designed to not make us look at that deeper reality.

So as if it was just like this, that this comes, then all of us would be fully lost, you see. Because we say 'God' and everybody could say 'show me' and there's no way to show. They say 'truth,' but 'this is the truth, you see, what I think, my thoughts, what they capture as narratives, that is the truth.' So there would be no way out of this Maya, no way out of this Leela, but there's a big, big escape hatch, you see, which is the minute you look inwards. If it was purely objective, what would you find? If it was just objective as we think it is, you see, that this is just a realm of objects, if you were to look inward, what would you find? Darkness, or just like our organs, physical, or like an X-ray machine depending, you see. But there is no way that we would find what we find, you see what I'm saying?

So that's why most—and we were talking about this earlier—that most of us are scared to look inwards in the world. And that's why more of our friends don't come to satsang or more of our relatives don't come to satsang, because they don't want to deal with that stuff. The outer life seems to be giving enough to deal with, you see. When we look inwards, it's scary because we are meant to find, you see, an X-ray vision of this body, but instead we find an infinite space, an infinite reality in which nothing is what it seems like in the mind. So then that leads to fear, and that's why most people don't want to go on the journey of self-exploration. Because the minute you look inwards, it short-circuits the whole narrative of the world.

What do you find when you go in? See, what is that 'in'? What is that inside? It's inside myself, but where is that inside? It's not in these dimensions. There's a space in which you can imagine a whole universe: trees and waterfalls and deserts and whatever you want. Infinite amount of pain is there, infinite amount of pleasure is there. That's not how it's supposed to be in the design of Maya. 'I'm just a little old object here made up of the food that I've eaten. I'm just a bunch of falafel'—not that I've eaten a falafel for quite some time, you see. But what happens when we turn is we encounter a different realm, a different reality.

And what do we find there? We find these layers of our existence: physical sensation, mental thought patterns, emotional appearances. But what after that? What about after that? That is where we are scared to look even in satsang, because we would rather just understand it. So meet it here. We would rather have some nice experiences even inside and let's not go too much because we don't want to mess everything up. 'I'm finally getting my life sorted, you see. Don't introduce me to what seems like an infinite abyss.' So let me stop over there at emotions. Can I just rely on my feelings to live? No, you can't, but the world will tell you yes, you can. Can I just live on the basis of what I think is right? No, you can't, but the world will tell you that you can.

So what happens after you go beyond your emotions? Who is there already? It may sound scary, 'Oh, there's somebody there.' Who is there? So beyond the layer of your emotions is where your Atma, the living presence of God, sits. But you left this world behind and the object nature of this creation behind. Who can come to this adventure with me? Because this is where this journey is going: peel off all the layers of human existence, of perceptions and sensations, and let's find out what's at the center of all of this.

So this needs courage because the mind doesn't like this courage, because in discovering what is here, your ideas about your life may seem irrelevant to you. So it can seem like a risk. So what do we try to do? We try to see, 'How can I get the best balance out of it?' You see? So I will just visit this place for a moment or two and then come back here and say, 'Oh, that felt good. I'm so stress-free and I'm happy. I have a big smile on my face. I'm done. That's it. That's what I came for. I wanted the end of my suffering.' But let's not do too much, see? So that is another way of denying the exploration of the truth, the exploration of ourselves, because we still want to make it about the one that is appearing in this Maya, in this Leela, that wants to get dominance over the one that we are finding in our heart.

So who is sitting there behind all these sensations and emotions? Is there a living being or isn't there? And if there isn't a living being sitting there, then you should all take me to NIMHANS or some hospital to get me treated, because I must be then severely deluded to talk about him, to talk about this one. And maybe all of us need to go because you come here every day. So who is deluded? If you were just to be democratic about it and take a poll, then the world will say that we are deluded, see? It sounds too far-fetched and it's only for the rare one that this discovery is possible. We can't even talk about these things; they must be kept in secret because people can go mad hearing about this.

Even that of ten who start the search, six will stop searching, they'll get frustrated and leave; three will go mad and one will find the answer. It is said like that. So is that a risk you're willing to take? And are you listening to one of those mad ones? See, that is something that you have to check. And it's not easy. It's a risk. It can seem like a risk because all the constructs that we have about this world, they start to crumble if within ourself is an infinite space and within that infinite space is the presence of a living being called the Atma. Is there such a reality?

And that is not the end of it. It gets even more absurd, okay? So what happens in the light of the Atma? In the light of this Atma, you find that you are the great unperceivable one which is boundless and qualityless, Nirguna, is it? So there's a special light, the light of the Atma, the Satguru within, in which you find that you are the absolute reality which is beyond even being and not being. So it's a crazy, crazy business. And the mind will tell us, 'So if you find all of this, how will that help us? Will I always be happy? Will I always be at peace?' See, you notice where the question is taking us? It's taking us back into the construct of this world being real and that reality being unreal.

See, so to expect that there will be a lot of mechanisms in this world to keep deeper study in that world is an unfounded expectation. It's not going to happen. In fact, the whole design is to pull us out of there and say, 'You've done enough, you see. Let's not go too far with this business.' So everything is meant for that because this still seems more real, you see. And the denial of that which is available to us the instant we move away from our perceptions is compelling. The denial is compelling and it's very popular in this world. So most of us would rather just follow and say, 'Okay, if seven billion are wrong, let me join that seven billion rather than that one percent who's saying: but what is the true nature of my reality?' And it gets even more difficult, as if I haven't made it super difficult already.

It is meant for that because this still seems more real to you, and the denial of that which is available to us the instant we move away from our perceptions is compelling. The denial is compelling, and it's very popular in this world. So we rather—most of us would rather just follow and say, 'Okay, if seven billion are wrong, let me join that seven billion,' rather than that one percent who's saying, 'But what is the true nature of my reality?' And it gets even more difficult, as if I haven't made it super difficult already, because the moment you have that desire in your head saying, 'What will I get out of all of this?' then you can't find the truth anyway. Or even if you found it, it seems now to be lost, you see. So to walk through this narrow lane is more difficult. As it is said, it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for us to let go of that which is false and to remain steady, like you said, in the truth. And in fact, it's not difficult; it is impossible.

I just have something more to say because if I leave it at that, then that'll be very disheartening. So it is impossible, but we have been told that for us it is impossible, but nothing is impossible for God. So only relying completely on God, only surrendering completely to Him, will this impossible become possible—that we remain in the truth of what we are and we don't fall for avidya, which is the falseness of who we are. So if it is impossible for us and only possible for God, then what should our approach be? Surrender, yes. But shouldn't our approach then be, 'What's the point? Only if He has to do it, He'll do it,' you see? So let me just give up. Why do I come to satsang? If He has to do it, you do it. But that's not the way it works.

Just like it's said that fortune favors the brave, hardworking people seem to get lucky. It seems that in this play, although we can never predict it, Grace seems to fall upon those who are fully committed to surrender themselves in every way to God. So although we can never predict Grace, it is incumbent upon us to put in our full effort that we think we have at our disposal in other fields of our life. You see, if you can love deeply in a relationship, if you can work hard at our work, if you can try to control ourselves and our lowest impulses in other areas of our life, then why can't we do it for God? Why can't we love Him fully with all might? Why can't we be humble and faithful and grateful? If even in the world we try to be these things, even in worldly relationships, then to create a relationship in the heart with God's presence, then why not?

So let's put in everything that we have at our disposal and give our highest to God, but leave all outcomes and results to Him. Because who is to say that we actually put our highest? Maybe it's just a mind telling us. Who is to say that we are just getting started in this project and our faith is equal to the mustard seed of a mustard seed, not equal to the mustard seed which is needed? We don't know these things. But there is help available, because it would be too difficult for us to do so. The help is in the form of the Atma itself. So we must become truly—the object of satsang is for us to become disciples of the Atma within, of the Satguru within. The external Master is only a stop-gap arrangement, a provisional job. So my job is to try and bring you or guide you to come to this point where your true teacher is the presence of God within yourself. Because in His light, this camel can pass through the eye of the needle. By our means, it can't happen. Only in His light can we remain steady in the truth in the face of worldly temptations, in the push-pull of the world.

How to remain in the light of God? We can only learn that in the stewardship, in the discipleship of the Atma, the Holy Spirit within. So ask yourself whether you feel that you are truly coming into this discipleship, truly coming into a servantship and obedience of the presence of God within you, in your heart, within yourself. This true discipleship is not easy because at every step your mind will try and come and make you proud. And you may not even realize—you will not, in fact, even realize it, because pride is such a blind spot that we are blind to it, but to everyone else around us, it stinks to glory. So everyone else can spot our pride, but we cannot. And every step, have you noticed that? I have been watching this Shri Ramayan. Every story in the Ramayan, every story in the Mahabharat, every story in the Bible is about one thing. What is that one thing about? Pride. How this one became proud and God had to cut him down. How this one became proud and God... every story in every scripture, even the Bhagavat which is huge, the stories are all about pride. You think they're trying to tell us something?

This is the poison of the human condition. It is because it is so subtle that it grabs us even in the ideas that seem so true. Ideas of our pride seem so true. That is why it's important to undertake this discipleship of the Atma within with full integrity. Nothing is hidden from it. Your mind only hides things from you; nothing is ever hidden from God. Conversely, our humility can serve as a beautiful anchor. It can serve as a beautiful anchor, and that humility only can lead to love. You cannot be proud and love at the same time. Pride is to put yourself first, take yourself to be something, take yourself to be special in any way. Love is to put God first, put our brothers and sisters first. So pride and love cannot coexist. So in humility, love can flower. True faith can grow, can develop.

If there is concern about self-image, that is pride. If there is self-concern, which means, 'What about me? What about me? This works for me, this doesn't work for me. Me, me, me,' then that is pride. If your core motivations are still driven by 'What do I want?' instead of 'What would God have me do?' or 'What does God want?' then that is pride. Pride is the silent killer of our spirituality because it can attack someone who has come into spirituality for the first time—then you feel like, 'Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got all this, oh that's it'—or someone who has come for fifty years. It can come in the form of knowing things, having had experiences, anything that the mind can use. You can be, 'Oh, I have more experience because I'm older. I have more experience because I have done certain things. I've seen much more spiritual fireworks.' And it blocks our love. And if you don't love God, if you don't love our brothers and sisters, then what is the spirituality? If you ration out our love, if you're building defenses first, then what is our spirituality? If you're more scared of being hurt than of loving, then where is our love for God?

I still let that answer, by the way. So if it is like this and the answer seems so intimidating, that the project seems so difficult, then how can we remain steady in God, in the truths, the absence of avidya? It means to remain open and empty, truly is to remain steady in this. But be careful of the mind's idea of open and empty, which is being conveniently mental. It is very conveniently mental because it may give you the idea of being peaceful, the idea of mostly open, but every few minutes it sends you some story and we say, 'Yes, yes,' we don't realize. So how to check whether you can be open and empty all the time? If you can truly be open and empty all the time, then it's going to be very easy for you to pray all the time, because there's no block. You're empty. So then in that no-resistance state, you are free to pray the name of God.

And I noticed that these words started coming in satsang also, that your heart, your Atma, the presence within, it loves to pray. It loves to pray. Something that I noticed, you see. But because I'm so foolish, it's also very good to get confirmation from the sages that this is how it is. And over the past few weeks, we've come across sages from different cultures, different religions, who have confirmed the same thing: that the Holy Spirit within ourself, the Atma within, loves to pray. So to prevent any mind tricks that, 'Oh, I'm so open and empty,' while being conveniently mental, just pray all the time. All the time. What is the prayer? The prayer you know, you can use the beads or you can use whatever prayer appeals to your heart fully. It can also be a verse from your favorite scripture, or your favorite verse from your favorite scripture. I've shared why in the Atma Samadhi I use a prayer which is fashioned around the style of the Jesus Prayer, because it contains all the elements necessary for a prayer. If you really dive into it with your heart, you will see that it's very effectively designed as a gift.

So if you find that difficult, then forget about the fact that you were thinking you were open and empty. How does... you are till now you mentioning that pray to be open, now you're saying praying is a validity or validation of being open?

It was both ways. So if we are in the idea that we are already open and empty, then you should be able to pray all the time with no trouble, you see. And where does this prayer lead? That is what I'm coming to. So you start like this, and most of us will find it difficult. So how will you be able to pray? You may be able to pray with the help of a mala, with the help of saying it out. So I'm going from the most gross to the most subtle. So with the help of the mala, then to say it out verbally, then to just move your lips—actually, to take the support of your breaths after the mala may be helpful. Then to say it out may be helpful, then to move your lips while it is happening may be helpful, then to just chant inwardly but through the instrument of the mind, intellect becomes natural. Then after the naturalness of that, we come into the ajapa, which is that we can almost audibly hear the prayer but we are not doing it anymore. So the spirit is chanting it, the Atma is chanting it, and we are just hearing it like we hear guidance from the spirit. Or if you don't hear it, don't worry, you just hear the prayer happening within you.

And then you come into the subtlest form of the prayer, which is that the presence is palpable to you in the presence of a deep love, and the words of the prayer may not be apparent to you. So here you are truly open and empty because your head is empty and your heart is full. And if you are open and empty to begin with, then you'll instantly get there. If not, then you will do all these experiments. You will go deeper and deeper within yourself and the prayer will percolate your life, and you will come into the presence, the darshan of the Atma within.

And suppose that there's a deep aversion of some, or some conditioning in you towards this form of sadhana, this form of coming to Atma darshan—because one is not better than the other—or there's a great attraction like was here, like I keep saying, I caught the bug of self-inquiry. I just had to know who I am. Had to know who I am. So then do the self-inquiry sincerely. Use that to dive deeper and deeper within yourself. Ask yourself who you are. Empty your mind. With your mind empty, your heart will organically start to become full. When your heart is full of love, then His presence will become more and more palpable to you. Let the self-inquiry become the primary question, if not the only question of your life. Come to the true insight of who you are. The endpoint for a bhakta or a jnani is not different. The end goal is not different. Both are attempting to come in the discipleship of the Atma within, of the Satguru within, and to come to the discovery of the truth, to come to the discovery of God. Whether you call it God-realization or self-realization, ultimately it is the same thing. Like the sage said, 'I went looking for myself but I found God, but when I went looking for God I found myself.' So use the self-inquiry to come to the same way of being, the way of the heart. Both lead to open and empty. Both lead to head empty, heart full. So this is the main project. Now some of you may say that, 'I can't do the path of devotion to God. It seems too far-fetched that there's a holy presence within myself that I must be devoted to.'

Self-realization or self-realization, ultimately it is the same thing. Like the sage said: 'I went looking for myself but I found God, but when I went looking for God I found myself.' So use the self-inquiry to come to the same way of being, the way of the heart. Both lead to open and empty. Both lead to head empty, heart full. So this is the main project.

Now, some of you may say that 'I can't do the path of devotion to God. It seems too far-fetched that there's a holy presence within myself that I must be devoted to.' And self-inquiry just sounds stupid; 'I'm repulsed by it, I don't want to do it.' Say that. Then what you can do is you can love the whole world. Okay, you can't love God? You think it's too far-fetched an idea? You feel like you've never met Him, so how to love Him? Then love the world with all your heart. See God in everyone. Be kind, compassionate to everyone. Full-heartedly give them what you want. Don't economize with the gifts of the heart. Don't be selfish. And this deep love, as it becomes more and more unconditional, will lead you to His presence again. So you come to the same point: love without conditions and without predetermining the object of our love.

If all three of these sound too much, would you enjoy listening to some devotional music? Start with that. Listen to some bhajan, sing some bhajan. I noticed all your faces when Anand was singing the other day. In the company of those who sing without selfishness and just to praise God and to love God, we all taste it. We all taste it. And whether we understand the language, we understand what's going on. You see, something happens. We go within. Look, there's a fragrance of the Holy One within ourselves which we start to taste when we are devotional in this way. And that scent, that perfume itself, will lead you to its source.

Suppose you don't even want to do bhajan, like 'What is this singing?' If you don't want all of this, then most likely there's a lot of stress in your life. Most likely—it's not that we can't say for sure—but there's most likely. So at least start to become stress-free. What is the way to become stress-free? Do some Hatha Yoga, pranayama. You see, do some breathing. Even if you do it with the intention of becoming stress-free, something will open up in you because a true Hatha Yoga practice or true pranayama practice will give you a taste of something deeper than the worldly play. And you may start to find yourself more able to meditate, more contemplative because of these simple practices. Or just learn some meditation practice. Start your day with that. Do some chanting, one mala a day, something simple. But take one step towards God or take even one step towards having a peaceful mind. Start somewhere. We all have to start somewhere.

And you never know that in doing one round of Bhastrika pranayama or one Sufi whirling or a song, you may soon be talking about what you discovered which is beyond this universe. But don't become impatient about that 'soon.' And there are many, many, many—what I've given is just broad strokes about the spiritual path. There are many millions and millions of ways to come to God. Just like there are millions of ways to be more and more engaged with the Leela, there are millions of ways to return from it as well. But none of them can bypass the presence of the Satguru within, because only in the light of that holy presence can you come to the true discovery.

Even to pray wholeheartedly when you wake up and before you go to sleep, that may be a good start, even if you don't have faith in the words of the prayer yet. Because God's love for us, His grace on us, is infinite. I'm still struck by that line by Hanuman Prasad Poddar Ji where he said that, 'I say first, it's a great fortune that God is not just with us, He is merciful with us. Because if He was to do justice with us, then this much I know: that I could not clear any test.' So we have to rely only on His mercy.

And it's very useful, actually, never to forget the times when we were most vulnerable, because those were the times that we were most open, most wanting to be in satsang, most wanting to find the truth. But what happens very quickly is when, after His grace, some semblance of normalcy starts to return in our life, then the mind says, 'Okay, okay, okay, now it's all settled. Just balance it out now.' So remember what Kabir Ji said. In this context, it means that everyone moves towards God, remembers God, prays to God when there is suffering. You see, it's only like—if you're wondering if it is everyone or not—it only depends on how much the heat is turned up. So we've seen the best of the atheists like this one turn to God when the heat of suffering was turned up. So he is absolutely right when he says that everyone turns to God when there is suffering. And if you haven't turned to God yet, you haven't yet suffered maybe that amount.

But he says that hardly anyone turns to God, remembers God, when we are content, when things seem to be fine. But if you are fully reliant on God, fully in remembrance of God when things are good, then there is no need for suffering to come. You see, because suffering is basically a slap to our pride. When we become proud in our life, then God sends us a million nudges before that, but He knows there's time for a slap, time for a slap. So only our pride suffers, actually. If we are suffering, we don't want to admit it, of course, and I don't want to admit it, of course, but every time I check, I notice that it is impossible to suffer without pride. 'I deserve better' or 'I should be done with this now.' That 'I, I, I'—that is pride.

But if you're completely reliant on God, if you're living a life in surrender to Him, then what is here that can suffer? It may sound far-fetched, but can we meet everything as His gift? Can we meet everything as His love? Only if you're not proud, only if you're not entitled. So this is how we can be steady in God. And this is not the half of it; it's not the millionth of it. Because that question, although it seems simple, is the whole construct, is the whole project. For those of you who have been in satsang for some time, a simple question: What is your intention? Is your intention to be empty all the time, or is your intention to be in prayer all the time? Not that both are distinct, as I hope you understood from what I've shared, but sometimes just to put it clearly like that: Are we trying to be empty all the time or trying to be in devotion, in love, in prayer to Him all the time?

They're the same, but while they seem different, they can be used in that way. In the sense that for some, the path of inquiry and just letting the visitors go, not serving them tea, may seem more resonating in you. You see? But we have to be true to ourselves and remember that if the mind is averse to something, why is it averse to something? If it's saying, 'No, no, no, but you are more of a Gyana temperament,' why is it going to say that? To preserve itself. So don't give in so easily to your temperament, to your conditions. Try out, experiment, be humble. And in your humility, then the path will be made clear. Like I said, this voice, this one that you're hearing now, is only provisionally pointing you to its very source, where the guidance that you will receive from there is your true—the true beginning of your spirituality. You see? As He guides you in the heart, so He may tell you something which you've never heard in satsang. So you can follow that. But if you follow what you're hearing for now, you can come to His doorstep and become a true disciple of the Atma. Yes? No hands up? Thank you.

Of course, pride is really stupid in the sense that—we talked about this years ago—have you noticed in the human condition, suppose we are neutral about something, how a friend says something, blah blah blah, and in response something comes from this mouth, bleh bleh bleh. And so quickly we feel like that is only the truth, that has to be the gospel truth because this mouth said it. And then we defend it, and we defend it, and we argue over it, and we fight over it. But really, if you just sit back and look five minutes back, you couldn't care either way. You see? But this is how pride takes over. 'Now I have to prove myself right.' You see? 'It has to be this way.' And it can seem harmless the way I'm putting it, but actually this stuff can get our life in full mental mode.

So these are small instances of pride. You don't have to look for it in the big, big, big things. So it can even be that we ask a question in satsang, and in response the teacher says, 'Useless question.' You feel like—and you only thought of that question like three minutes back—but now it's become so important that 'He didn't answer my question, he said it's a useless question, how could he behave like that?' Isn't it? So important. You also didn't care three minutes back, but now it seems very important. So if you just start noticing these small, small things. It can happen the other way also. Something comes from this mouth, you're saying, 'But that doesn't sound like good advice, is it?' Then I could be like, 'How dare you say that? I am telling you!' You'll be like, 'So what if you're telling me?' 'But I am telling you!' So let's hope that none of us get into this pride either way.

'I'm coming from a place of love, but you are wrong.' The most common satsang debate. 'Where are you coming from?' 'I'm coming from love, but I just want to tell you you're wrong.' It is very, very important, and we must do one just on this topic, the topic of sin and seen. Because the mind needs something concrete to place blame on, so it makes it about the person rather than about the block that they are encountering at the moment. And our intention becomes to prove the person wrong rather than help them in overcoming that block that they are facing. The mind loves to make everything personal. It's about you and me, not about the construct, the narrative, the truth value that we may give to a story. If you look at life at that level, then most of our disagreements and arguments will go away. A brother is taking a certain thought to be true; I am taking another narrative to be true. Both are guilty of the same thing, isn't it? But we quickly make it about the person instead of the thought construct, the falseness of the poor one who is falling into the trap of the mind. Don't we do the same thing? Don't we fall for the same trap? Wait, here's the mic. Let him speak.

A couple of things, Father. Um, one is related to what I think Sonali was asking about staying in presence, and it's been difficult. Like you said, that is the project. My second struggle has been every time you say, 'Are you coming here to end suffering or are you coming here for truth? For truth's sake?' And I think I've expressed my—I won't say struggle, but it's not sitting right with me that I can honestly report to you that I'm coming for truth's sake. Because every time I dwell on that, it's like, what does that even mean? Like, it's three words or four words: 'truth for truth's sake.' But what does that mean? And I haven't been able to resolve it that way.

But recently in Bodh Gaya, say providence or whatever you want to call it, I was sitting under the tree and I posed that same question. It's like, 'What is Father trying to tell me that I'm not getting?' And I'm probing and I'm curious and I'm staying humble that there's something in there that I'm not getting. What came that day is: 'Oh, there may be pain, there may be drama, there may be all this stuff which will never go away.' But what is arising and why I'm coming to satsang is there's clarity that is arising and there is courage that is arising. And maybe that's what Father means by 'truth for truth's sake.' I don't know. So that's what came up, so I thought I should just share.

It's a worthy contemplation to just contemplate: What is this about? What is this for? These kind of intuitive questions really help us to marinate in the heart, you see? So sometimes I say that let's look at it in the reverse. Suppose that there was no suffering in your life, but you were living a lie, whatever that means. Would you be all right with that now? Because if the intention is to be free from suffering alone, independent of what...

So that's what came up, so I thought I should just share. It's a worthy contemplation to just contemplate: What is this about? What is this for? These kind of intuitive questions really help us to marinate in the heart, you see. So sometimes I say that let's look at it in the reverse. Suppose that there was no suffering in your life, but you were living a lie, whatever that means. Would you be all right with that now? Because if the intention is to be free from suffering alone, independent of what is the truth, what is the true nature of myself or reality, then we should be able to create in this human technology or something, you see, which allows us to feel that we are happy and not suffering without actually anything to do with God or truth. But you notice that, okay, maybe another way to say this is to say that this suffering that we are talking about is very intermixed with the question of reality, with the question of Truth itself. So it's not just the suffering of 'I'm feeling bad' or there's some grief or there's some, you see, discontentment, but there's an incompleteness, you see, because I can't fathom what is inside me. That's one way to put it. And that's how we started, no? Can we really fathom what's within us? Is it? And how can we? And most of us are fine with that. We can't fathom it, let's forget it, let's worry only about outside, you see. But as we peel through the layers of our existence—and most of us who have been in Satsang long enough, you have at least got a glimpse of what is there behind all these perceptible layers—so then another way to look at the question is: Can we be just content, you see, just be fine without really discovering what is at the core of my existence, what is at the core of my being? Is it? So that's what the question also implies, saying that we come to such a point that we can't really rest till we come to this deep satisfaction of discovery, of recognition of either we call it self-realization or God-realization. So it may not be suffering, suffering as the world takes it to be suffering, but it's like a deeply held quest to discover the truth.

So yeah, so somewhere in there you gave us a very good example of this actually. I don't know if you remember, but one time you told us a story of how you were going to play golf and what happened is—you don't know what happened—but these set of people or thugs or goons or whatever got really upset and they just started hitting you. And initially, of course, something, but then you were just like, I don't know, but you know, Mar, you know what? So was that an absence of courage? I don't feel so, you see. I feel like there can be a weakness in our outer expression, but there's a certain strength to it and there's a certain ability to be meek in the most difficult of circumstances, you see. Because if you notice, the most fearful people also get the most angry externally, you see.

Exactly. So the most, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, it's worth exploring this. The ego usually is very brittle inwardly, so externally they come across very like brash or strong and like that because they don't want to ever anyone breaching that area, you see. So they build such a strong defense that they're like, 'Don't come close to that,' you know? And then that becomes a learned sort of condition to express themselves. But I feel like people who behave with a lot of like external, and usually they're trying to prevent themselves from looking within, and they are somewhere aware that the constructs of their way of life is a house of cards. So if they become vulnerable, if they become open, it can just be blown away. So they're mostly projecting this strength. Of course, it's not Templar-like. Anything in life, there are some people who are truly like in that Raavan mode; they feel like they're indestructible and they've figured everything out. That true Raavan mode in that way is quite rare.

I was watching this movie Sardar Udham Singh, the patriot. I don't know if you watched it.

No, I haven't seen it.

But the British put him through so much torture, it's like insane. And but he had this insane calmness through all that pain and suffering, and it was just like something else is keeping him in that courage. And yeah, it was just amazing.

I feel the same about Gandhi Ji, for example. I feel the same, although whatever people may say at this point, but I feel like that spiritual center, that spiritual core, and his complete reliance on the name of Ram, you see, this constant prayer gave him so much calmness to deal with what was such a strong situation.

I just want to make a report that I just moved into a new flat and redone it. And for many, many years, ten, fifteen years, I've always lived in a space in my home with lots of gods and prayers and it's just very beautiful around with statues and prayers. But in this case, I decided that no, I did not want to put God's, Guru, prayers all over my flat, but only in the puja room. So it has created some feeling of fear sometimes, anxiety. It was not easy to have an environment where it's just very beautifully done, but my gods are gods.

So what is the feeling behind the decision?

I felt that maybe I can do some kind of nirantar and stay with God within, and I should not really need to have the support of my eyes calling on a prayer and a God and a Guru, a teacher. And it's an experiment that I could do.

It's a good experiment. It's a good experiment. So you're right, firstly, that the external reminder, you see, and all these photos and everything that we put up are external reminders to bring us to the heart temple. I haven't used that term today, but when I say the shrine of the Atma, the temple, I'm really talking about this within ourselves, this chamber within ourselves where His presence is apparent and His love, rest, guidance, all His gifts are there in that heart temple. So the point is to really live in that unceasing nirantar, like you said. But we must not feel that if I'm using an external aid, then that's not good enough or something like that. Because why not, if it gets us to the heart temple? Unless you could say that I get just so caught up in the external that I forget to go to the heart temple. That could be a reason where you say, 'Okay, I don't want to have this on the outside so that I can focus on His reality which is within.' But if you find that something really helps you—you see a photo there, you see a statue there, you see an idol there, you see some verses there, you see all of that—every time you see it, it helps you go within, then why not? Because Maya is otherwise pulling you anywhere in the other way, you see. But even this usually doesn't work that way because initially when we put up something, we are like that; after a few weeks, it's just on the wall, it doesn't play that part. But as long as it does, like we never know where we may be caught up in some vasana and we may look at a photo of the Guru or Ram Krishna, Jesus, Bhagavan, whatever we put, and we may be reminded to go within.

Actually it started with the temple, started with the practice. The temple in my previous flat where the neighbors started coming, and I did have, and I had Hindu gods. And I see they were people of different backgrounds, and the heart temple movement was going really well. And I thought that if I could invite people of different backgrounds, religion, and faiths, then I would not like to put up perhaps photos and statues which may go against their faith, but rather make the faith as love or teaching or philosophy.

Yeah, just make sure that you're not being mental about it, really. Just follow your heart. And you could become more, instead of then removing everything, you could add something. Yeah, I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying that we have to be guided by our heart in terms of how much to be concerned about affecting another in some way and really predicting what they would think. Anyway, we don't know most of these things. But I would say that if they are effective to bring you to His presence within yourself, then use that. That is primary, that is important.

I think they were very effective. Every wall here now, it just felt very scary not to have the constant, you know, visual connects with the heart.

So sometimes the heart knows it's enough, I don't need that, you see. Sometimes the heart knows it's enough, sometimes it's pride which says, 'I should not need that,' but you do, you see. So you have to see whether it's coming from pride or it's coming from just the heart knowing that it's not needed, I'm settled. Or is it pride saying, 'I should be settled' or 'I am settled, I don't need it'? Sometimes then the pride can lead to self-sabotaging in some way. Yeah, and again, I'm not saying that this was it, but I'm just saying that as long as we're being guided by His light, we'll be fine.

It could also be the conceptualization of inner temple, mind's conceptualization. This you talked about love, you know, about how putting people before you and loving all of humanity even if you haven't met God. If you can love all of humanity even if you—I'm not able to hear you that—so you need to love everybody as embodiments of God, something like that. For a long time that I just brought up something that has been troubling me, like not very seriously, but now how even if I was saying that if we can't love everybody, then where is our spirituality? Ah yes, yes, something like that, yes. So you feel like you are super spiritual, but you don't love everyone. So then one of them can't be true.

Both are true. You are both aren't true? Okay, at least that's honesty. So as we progress on the spiritual path, as we deepen in our love for God, then just naturally it will also happen: we love our brothers and sisters more. If love for God, which seems ineffable, not perceivable, if that seems impossible, then we can try and love our brothers and sisters in small ways. Only in small ways can we bring a smile to someone's face. Everybody is on the roads, if you're fine, mostly people are just busy in their stuff, hurrying to get there, all of these things. But if you just smile at them while working, they may not smile back, but that itself is kindness.

Small things I get, but all these people are on this, even you, like how much trouble they'll take for other people. I mean, you also said the other thing about how you can't suffer if there's love and just the like you have to sacrifice.

I'm very generous with words, you see. If you're doing where there is a deep sense of belongingness, you see, then does it feel like a sacrifice? So if you do for your parents or your children, it doesn't feel like it. But that's how life is, that's how it's supposed to be done, and it feels very natural because there's such a belongingness. So if you do for your children, do for your parents, you never feel like, 'Oh, I'm doing so much, I'm doing so much.' So that sacrifice idea only comes once you feel like 'I am doing for something external.' But once you embrace everyone in love and belongingness, then how can you be exploited or how can you be sacrificing something? Which I found very strange, but it turned out to be very beautiful, is that my first course that Guruji and I went to do, the Art of Living program, and the first process they have is 'I belong to you.' Like, 'I belong.' It didn't—I mean, those words were very strange at that time. And so we did that process, we just bowed down to everyone, said, 'I belong to you, I belong to you.' Everybody said, 'I belong to you.' And by the end, you already like feel like one family. So I notice that this sense of belongingness then takes off you the idea that 'I'm doing something for you, I'm sacrificing something for you.' And as far as the spiritual sharing is concerned, I have never felt ever that I am doing something for all of you. I always feel grateful that you're allowing this one to share His love, His grace with all of you. There never, ever, ever felt like a sacrifice that I'm making of my time or something like that. What better use of time could there be?

I feel like one family, so I notice that this sense of belongingness then takes off of you the idea that 'I'm doing something for you, I'm sacrificing something for you.' And as far as the spiritual sharing is concerned, I have never felt ever that I am doing something for all of you. I always feel grateful that you're allowing this one to share his love, his grace with all of you. There never, ever, ever felt like a sacrifice that I'm making of my time or something like that. What better use of time could there be? What better use of this instrument called than to share about His love, His light, His glory?

When you taught us, you do you bow and you give it like you're offering it to your master. Otherwise, this pride can come subtly, no? That 'I have had so many people, I've done this, I haven't do this.' And then so you just bow down. So you taught us in the kitchen that when we were to serve, that you serve as if you were serving your master, that love, reverence, and respect. So after serving a few times, it was actually we were saying thank you. Thank you for accepting what we have to offer. You are doing us a favor, Your Grace. It just became naturally, automatically.

Like I think I feel the golden rule of service is that we must never let the one who's being served feel like the one who's serving is at a higher place. That is why the safest way to serve is to serve as if you're serving your master. You bow down, you are humbly hoping that they accept your gift, because pride, as we talked about today, can just poison all good intentions. It's tricky when you when we're sharing satsang and you're sharing God, and all of you will come to that point soon enough, because in the sharing of God, it is also the process of removal of avidya. So in one way, we're meant to chop that which is false, and by the same token, we're meant to serve, you see, in that way.

So it's very easy for those who start the process of sharing God's light to fall into pride, you see. At the same time, we have to do what is best for the one who asked the question or came up, you see, and that may need some cleanup operation which will sound like a chop. It may sound like a chop. So that is why, because it is beyond our capability to actually share God, we have to come fully from the heart and let that guide you. Sometimes the master seems like he has a sword in the hand, or she has a sword in her hand, and sometimes the master seems like they're the most humble in front of us, because only the master within can guide how to serve the self.

Other than it just coming, then he would be really impatient because 'I've told you fifteen hundred times the same thing.' And because you see the other person also as if you see yourself as a person, you see the other person, and then you're really like fed up because 'What a fool you are.' You feel like you're shaking the person up. So it's like, yeah, yeah, that's the thing. It's tricky even in that because sometimes just to clear the cobwebs, you see, sometimes maybe the words have to come like that. 'Are you a fool?' Like Shankara is supposed to have said that. He could have just said, he didn't have to say 'Mudha mate,' but the 'Mudha mate' had to be said because the one in front of him must be so deeply conditioned in that way that they needed a wake-up call like that, you see.

So we cannot really tell from the words themselves, but usually those who are sensitive enough can tell from the fragrance around those. Like, what is the sense? Like your mother calling you a fool seems very different from the boss at work calling you a fool, you see. But if your boss also loves you in that way, in that maternal or paternal way, and then calls you a fool and the one can sense that love, then we accept it even at work. So there's a difference in texture, and that texture is more important than actually the content of the words themselves. But it is right that if a master takes themselves to be the master, then it's very natural for things like anger, frustration, all those to be expressed.

With everything, everyone in this universe, master, can it be that everything, everyone in this world is your master?

Yes. Can one try to live like that? Specifically, he mentioned eleven, including a dog. So he learned, he says that 'I learned something from the trees, I learned something from the wind, I learned something from the sun.' So they are all the master. But also very beautiful is I was sharing the other day about what we learned from Hanuman G, which was he said Hanuman-pada, where he said that after doing that process of taking everyone to be God, what happened with him is that after a few seconds, like two or three seconds of looking at anyone, only Krishna would be seen.

So God also blesses us in that way that it becomes easier as we go along in our true bhakti. So imagine what a beautiful way to live where everywhere you turn you see Krishna is there. He said that Krishna also gave me the gift that He allowed me to do my work, which is to spread spirituality in the form of the Gita Press, you see. So when it came to proofreading work, the words didn't become Krishna, so he could make corrections and he could make changes. So beautiful. And we must take this thing literally because our skeptical mind comes and says he must be exaggerating or he must be meaning it as a feeling. You see, there's no reason for a sage to lie to us or to exaggerate because they are so deeply in love with God, they have everything they want in their heart. So they don't want your praise or your applause or anything like that.

So it must inspire us. We cut the inspiration by becoming skeptical very easily. So let's start looking at everyone as God, you see, and then in fifty years, if it doesn't happen that way, then we can say, 'Oh, Hanuman G was lying to us.' So whether we go neti-neti, inward, inward, inward, or fully embracing everything outward, outward, outward, it will lead to the same point of being full-hearted, head empty.

Can both happen? Can both happen simultaneously?

Yes. It's rare, but yes, you see. But be careful not to do neither full in that both because then the roots don't form. He keeps uprooting and 'I'll do that and then...' So that point is very important. So both can happen spontaneously and simultaneously, but it is rare. And in the attempt to do both, you see, just make sure that you don't end up doing neither. Because to go full way is important, either in our love outwardly or in our inwardly. How you know? Your heart will tell you. Your heart will tell you when it's becoming about pride and when it's becoming about, you know, just variety or an avoidance of boredom or something like that. Yeah, many times it can just be hedging our bet also. It can be anything, we don't know.

So that's why, that's why I'm going on reiterating that really our first job has to be to come to the darshan of the Satguru within, you see. Whatever we feel brings us closest to that, we must do. Because once He's there, then your life is anchored. He's your constant companion, your true friend, your true confidant, your true guide. You're never at a loss because He's always reassuring you. And then once you are in that treasure, then what will the world take from you? It gives you such an immense strength to find the Atma within.

Is it then not the safest, Father, if you stay with the Jesus Prayer? Sorry, is it not the safest thing to stay with the Jesus Prayer and just stay with it and nothing else?

Stay with it and nothing else. So what what is the reason why I talked about everything is because you say, 'I want to stay with it, nothing else,' but it seems impossible for some reason. Then still there's some hope, can do this. So it's not that God's doors are shut because you can't do the Jesus Prayer. But who cannot do the Jesus Prayer? So ask yourself then this question. If that is more appealing, then don't rest till you come to this answer. The respondent stays with the Jesus Prayer, yeah, singularly and only. Full, full blessings for that.

And you're noticing also that as it started, it was new, then a lot of resistance was there in the sense in all of us. And as it settled, it says, 'Okay, I can do this.' And now most of the reports are, 'But this is so beautiful, it is helping so much.' You see? So you notice that the mind's tendency is always to resist that which can seem to take away from its dominance, from its primacy. And then as you deepen into it more and more—so all of us are just scratching the surface right now—as we deepen more and more into it, the beauty of God that you will discover by His grace is unfathomable.

The work in all our distractions, brother, need to go there.

So I told you what to do. So if there's nothing happening which takes your attention, then do the full prayer with full heart. If there's some work happening but you are in a group call, for example, it's a Zoom call where there are fifty participants or even ten participants, so you are not constantly needed, then also you can do the full prayer. But you may not do it with your breath, you may not do it with full focus. But if you are speaking and you need to be engaged, then you could just use the arrow prayer. Or if even more attention is needed, then you just stay in your heart presence.

So you have not left your prayer by being in the heart presence; in fact, that is the highest form of prayer. But we must not rush to just be the highest because that the mind can fool us with pride. Let it become the nitya japa. So if there is nobody that you are answerable to in your work, then I would say just use all the time for your prayer. The work will take care of itself. You do God's work, He will do your work, whatever is needed. So that trust, that faith we can have. But all depends on our circumstances. But the intention is most important. 'I'm going to be in a long meeting where I have to speak,' all of that stuff, God will guide you as to how to remain with Him.

Our intention should be to be with Him all the time. Then you yourself will find the ways, you see, because different teachers have told us different things. So we have to play around with what I'm telling you and then your heart teacher will take over from that point. I am telling you because I have to set the guardrails, otherwise your mind will take you on some ride which will be so different from what is needed. So I'm setting the broad parameters so that you don't go beyond these, you don't experiment based on your mind too much. But the nuances of what is best in every moment, that will come from there. Just carry the intention of being. So which prayer are you doing?

Jesus prayer.

So just, 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit.' Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. So and if you're in a meeting where you have to speak and participate, you don't want to be disrespectful to others or feel like you're disengaged, then just 'Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus' inwardly. The good thing about all of this is that in a few weeks, months, or years—I don't want to give any guarantees of timeline—then your heart will start doing it. Heart will start doing it. You just have to be available, head bowed down in front of your heart. It's like in the temple, the echo of your prayer will resonate on its own. You just have to enter your heart temple and stay there.

Today you talked about pride and also giving soap in one of the pride and serving people. It's so subtle. I mean, I realized when at the Diwali time we give away the whole if it's slightly useful, if not. And then even in that giving, we try to find pride so that it comes. One of the books I read says that you are giving your leftovers and then you feel proud about that. More flesh on my bone and the others.

Very beautiful. That's why I feel like one of the, maybe Ananta said or Hanuman G said, they said if you're giving something and something is not feeling a bit of a pinch, then it's not really giving. Huh? That's a useful thing, huh? That if you're giving something and you're just like, 'I can really do without it, that's why I'm giving,' then it's not really giving. So just push your boundaries little, little, little, little, then your boundaries will...

That's very beautiful. That's why I feel like one of the—maybe an ancient sage or a saint said—he said, if you're giving something and something is not feeling a bit of a pinch, then it's not really giving. Huh? That's a useful thing. That if you're giving something and you're just like, 'I can really do without it, that's why I'm giving,' then it's not really giving. So just push your boundaries little, little, little, little, then your boundaries will expand. You also saying you should be able to feel the pinch, that's the test. What will be given if it was meaningless to us anyway? Then it's not really giving.

That also applies to our time, also applies to our prayer. Yes, yes, yes. Anything we do for God. So that also alludes to everything that we do in the service of God. Alludes to our prayers—it should pinch. We allude to staying in the heart, alludes to gratitude, alludes to meekness, alludes to humbleness, alludes to patience. The pinch—the pinch is our aversion to discomfort. It prevents us from truly ever carrying the cross. So we may be very far from carrying the cross, but at least let's push our boundaries a little bit in service to God.

So what is very useful, this point is very effective to shut the mind off. And the understanding the pinch is necessary. If it is so easy, then there's no way of finding God. But his point is very good. No, I feel like that's great maturity to see that we give that which we don't really care about, and secondly, we feel pride about that. That's a pure one-two punch from the mind, you see? Because you feel like, 'Oh, this means nothing to me, but these poor people, it should matter a lot to them.' This is just so much pride. You must not get stuck in these things. You must learn to see God's light in all our brothers and sisters in the world. Otherwise, our spirituality will get stuck at an intellectual lip service, armchair spirituality, not really deepening in our heart. Our mind will not fully fall into our heart. We will not live in our heart temple if we make these boundaries.

This prayer of asking God for suffering—'God, please let me suffer, and if you can't let me suffer, then let me die'—asking God for suffering seems resistant. And you see it across the religions. Where I was sharing that even in Mahabharat, the mother of the Pandavas is Kunti. So Kunti noticed that she doesn't turn to God unless she's suffering. She noticed this truly about herself. So she made this prayer: 'God, please make me suffer, because only when I suffer do I remember You. So if it takes suffering, let me suffer more.' It's very, very strong, but it is the height of devotion. So let all these stories, let all these examples of these great sages, let them prod us. Let them push us beyond the boundaries that we have set for ourselves.

You see, like the one story, just the story of Abraham, the way God explained it just shook up the life, this life here. And therefore, the expression of the sharing in satsang is now—the whole satsang seems to have a different quality because of that, you see? So to hear the examples of these great sages... and they may not... like when I first heard the story of Abraham, I didn't want to read it. But then something made me come back to it after a year or two years or something like that, and then I could really meet it in my heart. And then the question was: Do I have that faith? And if I don't have that faith, then what is the faith that I do have? What is the boundary of my faith?

I realized that it's very easy to say, 'My life is fully surrendered to God,' but if we are to be Abraham, then would we? Is it, or is it that we mean that 'My life is fully surrendered to God,' asterisk, read the fine print: conditional surrender. And that's where I started to realize that our faith, our spirituality, must risk what we take ourselves to be. There must be a risk involved. It can't just be safe-safe, nice-nice, sweet-sweet. When suffering comes or pain comes, immediately you turn toward God. But to pray to give me more and more, or to go like in that case of Saint Teresa, to inflict pain to somebody else or to auto-flagellation—don't worry about all that. Yes, I know it's coming from the mind.

So just you be with God. And you find that you are only being with God if you are suffering, then pray for suffering. Can you be with God otherwise? Yes, you can. So be with God. That's the important thing. Okay? But be true to yourself. So if you can be with God, just be with God, then you don't need to suffer. Okay? That's what Kabir Ji said: that if we can suffer when we are happy and content—if we can pray, if we can be with God when we are happy and content—then why would suffering need to come? Thank you. It's good.

Don't let any notions about what it means to be the best devotee get in the way of being with God right now. Otherwise, we'll get stuck in, 'Okay, but Abraham was able to do this, and Sita Ji was able to do this, and Kunti was able to do this, and Shravan Kumar was able to do this.' Then we just keep thinking about all of that. But if that thinking doesn't inspire us to go to the heart and be with Him, then that is no—then that is pointless. So important is to be with God. So the mind can also use every spiritual pointer, can also use every spiritual story to keep us away from God. And then it'll just create conflict. And you said, 'But you said like that, and also you said like that.' And I'm saying you listen to either of them, but listen and go to God. See, do you want to make sense of it and say, 'What does he actually mean?' And everything I've said, I actually mean: go to God. That's all.

Somebody hears it this way, somebody hears it like that. Some child has to be told this way, some child has to be told that way. The intention is to—I repeat—the intention is to find our true place as disciples of the Atma within. Have you become disciples of the Holy Spirit within? That is the point. And that is where my job ends with you. Because the one that you love in this one is only that one, nothing else is lovable here. If you find the one that is speaking using this mouth within your heart, then the outer role of this one is over.

Hello, Father. Hello, hello. Thank you for what you said. I arrived late because, yeah, I was busy with some things. But yeah, it's just on point what you're saying, and I'm trying to apply it in my life just right now because I'm struggling a bit. So yeah, as you said, as you know, I might be hired to work in France. And yeah, it was not in my plans, you know? And I'm on the site, I'm on the place right now, and it's a beautiful place. And I've just visited the place with the one who used to manage it. And yeah, the overall feeling is like super, super, super—I'm super contracted and in fear and a lot of resistance. And as you were saying, you know, the feeling that I'm giving my time, that I'm sacrificing, you know?

So when I was listening to you, I was trying to imagine that, you know, everything is God and this is an offering for God. And I'm imagining that I'm serving my friend who I really like, so I imagine that he is God. But yeah, I just feel if I'm really honest, if I listen to my heart, I was waiting like crazy to be either in your presence or Mooji's presence. The other day I had a meeting with two girls from Sahaja to see if I could go to the guest days, and I was crying also for the same reasons. And they were saying, 'But maybe your satsang is outside, you know? Maybe this is here or anywhere, but not in the presence of the masters that you will meet Him and realize Him.' But you know, it's so—at least for me—it's so much easier here, you know, to feel the presence and to be fully in the satsang.

I remember when I was in India last time, I was with Arun, and yeah, I had time to listen to the videos and to be with you, and it was much more present. I don't know what I'm going to do, you know? Also, I see that since I have started to work for him, sometimes it's like so much because everything is new for me that I am forced to stay present and to stay empty. Whereas if I was just guiding my life and controlling everything, it was quite hard to be present. But yeah, I just want to tell you how much I miss you and I would like to be in India or in Portugal, and at the moment, yeah, it's difficult. So I don't know exactly what to do. And yeah, the only reason that makes me stay here and why I have spent all the months after Sahaja in France is because I was waiting for money, you know? But if it weren't for money, I would be with you. I'm sorry, I'm seeing myself like... but it's tough because that was my plan, you know?

Yes, yes, yes. Okay, good, good, good. So if your work really gets in the way of your prayer, of your ads, of your invitation, of your staying empty—whatever you're using to be with God—if it truly gets in the way, then you must choose God. But if it is just the mind saying, 'But it's much more difficult,' then it's okay if it's more difficult. You see, what is the better sadhana? We can't really conclude. You see, if it is more difficult and yet we can be with God, maybe that is the better sadhana. We don't know. We have to try. Can we be anchored in His love? Can we be anchored in our prayer in spite of whatever external activity may be happening? Maybe that's something if we learn, then we are not dependent on the physical situations after this.

But if you're clear about it that you just—it's not possible to be in God's presence because the world work is so consuming to your attention—then just come to Bangalore. We'll figure out. Don't have to worry. Don't have to worry about living expenses in India; they are not so much anyway, so we don't have to worry about these things. But follow your heart. What is your heart guiding you to? If you feel like it is auspicious there, you working, and some money is being provided for which then helps you to travel in the future, and in the process you're not forced to abandon God in some way or abandon your spirituality in some way, then that could be fine too. I think that would be the option for now, and I can see and see how it goes.

So keep me posted how it is going. And if you really feel like the disconnection—there's a deeper disconnection in your heart with your spirit and yourself—then don't worry, just find a way to come to the place which connects you back to His light, to His love. Because that is the most important. Because you don't know where a disconnection of a moment also leads us. A moment of disconnection from His light may lead us to forget about Him for this entire lifetime and I don't know how many lifetimes. So we don't know what pride will take, what things will take over.

But if that disconnection is just in your mind and actually the kind of work that you have, maybe it allows you to pray even more without the distractions of sangha brothers and sisters. You're just left to yourself and actually you can just pray even more without social pressure, and you avoided becoming a social club of sorts, then that could be good too. So you really have to be true to your heart and see: Is this really giving you more space to be in God, or is it truly removing the space from us being in God? But if it's merely difficult, it is okay, because we have to learn how to be with God in difficult circumstances. We can't always expect it to be easy-easy and everything to be supportive around us.

So precious to have you, Father. Thank you so much. Oh, oh my Lord, thank you. I love you. Thank you.

Keep me posted, okay? Good, good.

Like, I raised my hand because I felt like I just need to ask for help because the other talk I felt a little bit arrogant and still was so much angry towards you.

But if it's merely difficult, it is okay because we have to learn how to be with God in difficult circumstances. We can't always expect it to be easy, easy, and everything to be supportive around us.

So precious to have you, Father. Thank you so much. Oh, my Lord, thank you. I love you. Thank you.

Keep me posted, okay? Good, good.

Like, I raised my hand because I felt like I just need to ask for help because the other talk, I felt a little bit arrogant and still was so much angry towards you. I did not even ask for grace and help, but I feel like I just want to ask for help for everything, Father. For yes, like today you were talking so much about the ways of God, the ways of mind. I feel like I don't have space even for that, you know? Like, I cannot even look at the ways of mind or God. Like, I cannot understand anything. Like, I'm in this place like complete helplessness. I don't know anything about anything, you know? Maybe this is auspicious, I don't know. It doesn't feel like this. It feels like there's nowhere to go, nothing to do. Like, even to sit like this is just complete burden. Like, I'm like this, but yeah, in like complete helplessness. And even feels like I'm lack of faith, but still I want to come because I want to believe that your grace, God's grace, can work even without my faith.

Okay, this is a good start. So you say that there is no space because all of this fills you up so much you can't even hear what is happening, you can't understand, you don't know what is being spoken about. So is it true that besides what you're thinking and feeling, there is really no other space within you right now? Is it true that the entirety of your space is taken up by this frustration and by this feeling of whatever the feeling may be? Is it true that your being has no other space?

It's still so loud, Father.

Yes, it's loud. I'm not denying that. It can take up a lot of our attention. But is there the tiniest space where it is not there, or does it take over everything? Everything is taken over by this loud voice? What about the sensations of your body? They are there or no? You can feel them? You can, now that your attention is being drawn in that way, can you observe one sensation of your body? Your hands, your feet?

I think I don't care.

So that besides this voice is what I'm asking. Besides this voice which is saying 'It is too loud, I don't care,' besides the space where this voice is, is there anything else to you or is that your limit?

No, 'I don't care' means I don't care about feeling of body now, like it—

Yes, yes, yes. What I'm saying, you said, 'I don't have, it's taking up all my space.' So do you want to just accept it because your mind is saying it, or do you want to really look if there's any more space in you? What do you want? Do you want to accept it just by the fact that your mind is saying there is no other space, or do you want to really confirm that there is no other space in you?

It's not just mind.

Yes, it's not just mind. I'm going with this. Yes, it's the whole play of appearances mixed with the narrative of the mind is what we call Maya. And once we are involved in Maya, then it can seem like this is the only thing that is important and there is really no other space. Then we may speak of God's presence, His light, His love, His grace, His mercy, His help, His rest, but all of those things won't make sense because we are taking the appearances and the narratives about the appearances to be our only reality. So we are checking now whether besides the appearances and the narratives, there is really something else to you as well. And when you say that you don't care, that is the voice of the mind which wants to make the narrative seem to be the only reality and nothing else, including especially God being real.

Father, when I say I don't care, it was because like I was, I think, drowning in the space which you were inviting me, and then you ask me about sensation of body and that's why I say now, right now in this, I don't care about the sensation and sensing. Learn more than—

It's very good. It's very good. So you already leaned deeper than I was saying, which is good. So then in that space where you don't even care about body sensation, whose presence is felt? This is the whole project. This is the whole game. The mind will convince us, the world will convince us, that this is our reality. It is important. Something here is more important than being with God right now. It'll convince us that something can block you from being with God right now. It is just not true because this world will vanish, this body will go, but His presence, His light, is ever-present, eternal.

It's not comparable, Father, for anything to be here.

It's not comparable in what way you mean? When you are there, then the world, things of the world, are not that important? Is that what you mean, or what are you saying?

Yes, like, um, yeah.

Yeah, that's good. That's good. That's already a benefit because many times it happens that—

But is it a solution? I'm sorry, I'm maybe this is still like some kind of isolation because there still something wants help and resolution. Like, like there is some, yeah, confusion or something, I don't know.

I hear you. I hear you very well because I used to get this often. Now maybe my powers are diminishing or something. So earlier people used to say that when I was at home, I was really troubled about something, I was really troubled with something, then I come to satsang and I want to ask you the question. By the time I come to asking you the question, it's not so important, so it goes away. But that's unfair because when I go back home, it becomes important again. What did you ask? So some of you said like that, it becomes unresolved. So it leaves unresolved. Later when I'm not in satsang, then it seems to become important again. So how will I solve this problem, you see? So it seems unfair, isn't it, that we go to God because we want to solve it, we need help with the serious problem, but when we go to Him, it doesn't seem like it's serious anymore. See? Then how will that problem be resolved? The problem can only be resolved in one way, which is that then once you go to God, then you don't leave. And the mind will hate that because like, 'But that's escapism, you know, you're running away from the problem itself.' There is no disrespect in running away from the false. You don't have to have courage to run away from or to fight that which is false. So don't take that to be courage. Just have the courage to stay with God no matter what.

I'm willing, Father.

Very good, very good.

There is no option left. Yes, I tried the other way and it didn't work.

So the other way doesn't work. So it makes us feel like that the actually the option is always there. We can try and fight in the mind or we can try to live in the heart. But the wise ones say what you said, which is that I tried it the other way, I've learned my lesson, and I found that this is the only true way to be free from this. This is good.

And I feel like it's a new kind of challenge, Father. Like, yeah, challenge to all my—

Yes, the challenge. What happens to the problem of the challenge when you take it to God? What happens to the problem of the new challenge then you take even this to God? What happens? What happens to it? Does He give you guidance on it? Did He? Does He? I mean, I don't know.

Father, like, I'm not good at really hearing any guidance. Like, sometimes it just happens. But yes, this satsang you were talking about ways of God, like guidance. It's still so much triggering for me because like this heart guidance part really, it's a challenge for me. Like, I don't know. Sometimes I feel like I'm following it and I see the result is complete mess, and sometimes I hear that and I think that it's mine, like it's— but it's always like this. So this is why I'm asking for help because like just complete, complete, I don't know, I cannot move. Like, I don't know, yeah.

So it's a difficult path to learn how to live always in the will of God, in the guidance of God.

And I'm so sorry, I need to add this. Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm not good at this, like really. So yes, just asking for help. Like other people, I saw that like they can really, even non-spiritual people, they can go with their hearts, you know? They can hear it. But I was already like, like mess on this even before spirituality. So I don't know. I want to ask for help. Sorry to interrupt you.

Help, yes, yes, yes. This humility will help you. This humility will help you very much to say that I want to follow His will, I want to be guided by God, but I don't seem to be good at it. Even I feel like I don't seem to be good at it, you see? I feel like there's a long way to go. I don't live every moment in His guidance, but I want to, you see? So it is difficult for all of us, no matter what they say externally. Your wanting it is the most important. Your trusting it, your faith in it, is the most important. So this is how we will deepen in that. It is not going to always be easy. The solutions may not always seem apparent, you see, because He is trying to develop our patience as well. And patience is very, very important. So you must remain in His light, in His presence. And my only job as this external instrument is to guide you to His presence because He is the true guide, He's the true Master.

And I just want to offer all my ways, my thinking as well, because I see like it just, it offers a suggestion to help me, to help spirituality, what is good for me, what is good for my spirituality. And yes, even this is my way, and sometime, yes, it's sometimes it's not a heart guidance, but it's very easy to fall into that when it suggests you, offers you for the sake of your spirituality, yeah.

Yes, yes. So what to do in this case? So what we must do is, suppose it suggests you something which is better for your spirituality. By following that, do you come to the presence of spirit? If you come to the presence of spirit, then it is helping your spirituality. But if it seems to add to the disconnection, then you know it is the trickster tricking you. So that which helps your spirituality must deepen the light of spirit in you. That is the only test.

May I ask you something, Father? Yeah, thank you so much. So okay, other weeks I shared that I'm going to other gatherings, yeah, but it's not about teacher, just to be in the gathering in the spiritual environment. But recently it was troubling me a lot because what I saw that like this Islamic way of teacher, even though I see God's presence is there, you know, you can feel and see this, but somehow the gatherings which I was going recently, they are kind of religious as well, not just like religious, religious, religious, yes. And God's presence is there, but at the same time some religiousness. And what is troubling me about this religious part is that I don't know if you know about this Islamic ideas and way of thinking, but they are thinking that they are the only ones. Other teachings, other religion, and their true teachers cannot be true at all. Only the ones who following Muhammad, only they. And it's just like because you are my teacher, it was like somehow that seed came into my mind and it's not that I adopt you a lot, but it just create a confusion in my system. Like, I cannot accept what they say, but at the same time I cannot do without going that gatherings as well. So yes, just I wanted to share that.

The thing is that every religion, every culture, every tradition likes to say that they are the only way. Everyone. They are really believing that. Yes, yes, yes, yes. It's true that they say like that. The Hindus said, the Christians said, the Muslims said, the Jews said, everybody say. So it has two purposes. One is that first could be pride, saying that our way is the best way and the only way. The second is also to make things clear for the disciples, saying that, 'Okay, I'm not going to do spiritual shopping, I'm going to just be focused.' And it could come from a true place that if there is a path which is leading us to God, then that is enough for us and that is fine. Then there are some—

The Hindus said, the Christians said, the Muslims said, the Jews said—everybody says it. So it has two purposes. One is that first could be pride, saying that our way is the best way and the only way. The second is also to make things clear for the disciples, saying that, 'Okay, I'm not going to do spiritual shopping; I'm going to just be focused.' And it could come from a true place that if there is a path which is leading us to God, then that is enough for us and that is fine. Then there are some strange people, rare, stupid, strange people like this one who says he's a Hindu, he's a Muslim, he's a Christian, he's a Jew, he's a Sikh, he's a Sufi—he is everything, you see. So what to do with this one? Because if they say, if anyone of them says that they are the true way, I say yes, you see. But if they say, 'But the others are not true,' I have to say, 'But that is not my experience.' I feel that authentically following God or looking for God truly in any of the paths—and because the paths originated with such beautiful sages and teachers and prophets—then they have to be true. But to say that it is only this, that is not my experience, so I can't share that.

So the world may call me stupid and foolish and one day maybe I get into some trouble because of that as well, but the fact is that this is what my experience is and I have to be true to that. So I am also Muslim, I am also Christian, I am also Hindu, I'm also Sikh, I'm also Jew. Me too. Funny that, like, the Christians will say Christianity is the only way, Judaism is not true, but Christ learned from the Old Testament and from that he made the New Testament, so how can Judaism not be true? So if you really look at it, let's give them the benefit of doubt and say that they don't want disciples to get confused and, you know, end up doing a lot of spiritual shopping; that's why they say like that. But maybe there is some pride also in these things, so we don't have to worry so much about that. So if you're worried that, 'Can you come to God and are you in denial of your religion?' No, I am a Muslim as well.

No, Father, my worry is not about that at all. I don't have worry about this. My worry is that it's not my truth. Like, my truth is same like you, but it's like I'm going there because I have some gaining, like being in a spiritual environment, and it's like I'm not speaking my truth in that way. I'm hearing, I'm hearing, and I behave like accepting outwardly, but inwardly I'm not aligning with my truth. This is the trouble, not about you at all.

Yes, this is the trouble. So this is fine, but you know, your heart will guide you. Your heart will guide you in terms of what to say, what not to say, because we don't have to necessarily, you know, tell everyone, 'But I follow all religions, I believe in everyone.' Your heart will also guide you about that. There was once a boy who used to come and visit me at work; he was originally from America and we became friendly and things like that. So he tried to one day tell me that, 'Why don't you convert to Christianity?' And I said, 'But I already feel I'm Christian.' So, but they have a different idea of what that means. So I said, 'No, I have a deep love for Jesus in my heart, so I'm a Christian.' I don't need any other formal process to happen because if that means that I must say I don't believe in Ram, Krishna, Devi, then I can't do that because I know they are real. I know they are true as much as Jesus is in my heart.

So we are not to force it on anyone else or even express it to anyone else, but if anyone forces us, we have to say, 'No, I'm okay, I'm okay.' So go, I feel very happy you can go to those gatherings, you can immerse yourself in remembrance of the holy prophet and of Allah, but you don't have to be forced to accept some constructs which seem only like narratives, you see. Because then what happens is once you start like that, then within the religions also everybody has different sects. 'We are like this only, we are like that only.' Then within the sect they have subsects. 'We have this, we have this.' This is the people; the mind loves to divide. So where will it end? It doesn't end. So there's no point getting into that. It's better to embrace everything that feels holy in your heart and to love and trust that. But whether you have to say it to those who are there in the gathering, that you have to listen to your heart.

I love you so much, Father.

You too. Love you too.

May I say something? You know, you are the one who make me love Prophet Muhammad and introduce him to me, I don't know. And it's like, but they are cutting this love towards him, you know? Like, I'm going there but it's like they make me even disgust from his name, you know? But with you, I again know him and love him. I don't know, I just wanted to share this.

Very good, very good, very good. I'm so happy. Yes, you must love and revere all the prophets, all the sages who spent their life in service to God. All reverence, all respect, all love for them. Love you.