You Bring the Joy - 9th November 2020

So these Grade B emotions, as I call them—guilt, regret, arrogance, remorse—all of these are more a combination of the perception of a sensation combined with a meaning derived from the mind. And these ones, these are collectively what we call suffering. Suffering is not just the natural arising of some sensation, because that is inevitable. The natural arising of sensations in this human existence is pretty inevitable; everybody will go through them. And that which is thought needs a thought to make it; that cannot just organically be. It needs a belief in identity. It needs me to be something for it to be what it is. That is suffering.

So suffering is not possible without there being a notion or a message in our heads. And by virtue of believing that notion or message in our heads, we take ourselves to do something that we are not. And the pain is very fleeting; it just comes and goes. But suffering is quite prolonged and it carries the baggage of all the past and all the stories of the past and the feelings of 'But I'm always like this' or 'The other one is always like that,' these kinds. So that is the distinction. And once you start to see the distinction, it is important to see because you will then be able to heal in the way that you are allowing the sensation to be met with pure perception, but you are not so much behind the story or the label behind the sensation or the message.

Because what is the story of guilt? The story of guilt is that 'I should not have done that. It was a bad thing that I did.' Now this 'I'—obviously you realize that it was going to go there eventually—is that this 'I,' you see, are we talking about God? Are we talking about the Self? Who are we talking about? The one who should not have done—who is that one? And is that a true existent entity or is it just a fantasy?

Yeah, um, it is the 'I' of the story of me. It's the 'I am a I,' the one that's in a relationship, the one that has had a certain history and wants to have a certain type of future. And um, I've been wondering lately, do I need to give up the—it's like the story of me. Will I be able to operate in relationships?

You know, as it is clear to you as you—sometimes when it's spoken out loud, then it seems to become clearer somehow. When it—whatever needs to happen or play out in this worldly appearance can play out, but empty of the burdening of the relationship. So this idea of 'I want a partner who is like that, she should be like this, she should not be like that'—this is the burden of most relationships. And many relationships, they go through this cycle of first attraction because of the opposite natures or differences in nature. Then once the other one admits that they are in a relationship with you, then we want to change them. We want to project on them our ideas of how they should be and then maybe, in this case, then feel guilty about doing that and saying, 'I always do this.' So this kind of thing is very natural and common in relationships, especially for those who are into some sort of spirituality.

Because in most of the world, they are just rejecting their stuff and they are fine with it. So only after we have the spiritual knowledge where we feel like, 'Oh, I'm projecting myself,' not only do we continue projecting, we're also feeling guilty about projecting. So that's a double one-two punch. A lot of things are worse for spiritual seekers, actually. So what is it that you are expecting out of the relationship, and that expectation is reminding you that you always do this and therefore feeling guilty about it?

Well, I guess what I'm expecting—I guess what I'm expecting, can you hear me? Um, it feels like what I'm expecting isn't necessarily what I want from the relationship. I'm expecting drama, I'm expecting conflict, I'm expecting, you know—gosh, there's no more kind of private world inside that. It's all just everything is exposed. And I'm also expecting lots of beautiful times.

So let's look at what you mean by expecting versus what you want. What do you mean by 'not I'm expecting but not wanting'? Is it like 'I'm predicting this but not necessarily wanting it'? Is it like that?

Yeah, it's very much from the past, like it's happened in the past so it will likely happen in the future because our behaviors, our habits of behaving and interacting, um, they maybe are not changing quickly enough. The fan is still spinning, you know, like Guruji says. You think you're there—it looks like you froze. I'm not sure, did you hear?

I'm still here. Somehow today the internet and sound and everything is a bit not as good as it was.

Yeah, yeah. But it feels like, you know, the way that the fan is spinning and the power is gone but it keeps spinning. So it feels like the old habits, they are still—they're still playing. Not as much as they used to, but they are still playing. Um, yeah. So I expect that what the old habits seem to cause in terms of conflict in the relationship will still happen to a certain extent. But what I want is beautiful rainbows and sunshine and hugs and, you know, love, which I do—which we do also have, you know, more and more. But today, this whole kind of of the habits coming up...

If you had both, would you be okay with it?

I do have both. We do have both. And um, yeah, mostly I'm okay with it. It's just sometimes it's very strong. Um, why? Like this idea of 'Why can't I change sooner? Why can't I totally drop this behavior? Why does it keep touching? Why does it keep...'

Well, one thing about this is I may not be able to tell you how to have the perfect relationship or perfect anything for that matter, but I can definitely tell you that asking 'why' is not going to help anything. For the perfect relationship, there is another question which is a bit similar but somehow not that attractive to us. You know which one?

I'm guessing 'who' rather than 'why'?

Same letters except for one, yeah. From 'why' to 'who.' Because these kind of 'why' questions—'Why is the world like this? Why don't people change? Why can't I be more like this? Why can't humans love each other more?'—you see, all of these things have been asked for hundreds of thousands of years, but there are no real answers. Now the problem with the 'why' question is that it itself is basically a fraudulent question, presuming that in our reasoning ability or intellect we can store some truths or some true knowledge.

Now the thing is that whatever we may be able to resolve—'Why is the world like this? Because this. Why is my family like this? Because this. Why my relationships?'—we may think we have the reasons for any of that, but the thing is nobody is ever able to explain to themselves why they are. And that is the fundamental of our existence, and that itself is a great mystery. We can call it a divine mystery if you want. So if the fundamental of all of this existence itself is a great mystery, then how is it that we are able to try and resolve, you see, aspects of it and feel like we come to a perfect solution one day? It just doesn't.

So either we ask myself 'Why am I?' Before we can get into 'Why is my life like this?' first maybe we should ask the fundamental question, which is 'Why am I?' And that doesn't have an intellectual answer, actually. So it is really no point trying to reason out any of these things. We just have to meet them from a deeper place, from a different place. If you didn't meet any of this, especially your relationship, from this place of your head, then what trouble would you have in your relationship?

Yeah, trouble is just a story, isn't it?

Yeah. Now the thing is that whatever we are able to define as the meaning of a relationship, that itself is full of trouble. Like what does it mean to be in a relationship? Why are you calling it a relationship? It's some commitment to each other, you know, it's some agreement. What is the agreement? And this agreement just keeps growing. So if you don't form it on the basis of that conceptual agreement and it just remains as an intuitive connection—that is also conceptual, but just to put words to it—it just remains as an intuitive connection, then would that not be enough?

There seems to be a strong belief here that—like a fear to drop that.

What is the alternative? The alternative is that there's something objective in front of us, you see, let's call it 'partner,' and we are expecting that objective perception to remain constant based on our belief system or in line with our belief system of what that should be. Now that just doesn't happen in this world. Even a robot cannot fulfill that expectation of what our belief system about that should be. So all perceptions are constantly changing, and that which we're calling 'in the relationship' is also another perception.

So we've taken another body-mind and we expect that body-mind to conform to some idea of this agreement or contract that we have in our heads, and we feel like it will remain true to that and then that will be a good relationship. And it's a dance of projection both ways, because apparently from that side also this display happens. But who can play this game? It never works. It never works because our beliefs themselves are not steady. We meet someone who conforms fully with how our partner should be, then what is our new belief? 'Oh, that's so boring. I want some excitement.' And then you get excitement because the person is so different. 'Oh no, no, you are too much for me, you're too much.' It never works because that is the nature of the mind.

So don't expect anything in this realm of perception, especially that body-mind object that we are calling ourselves a relationship with, to conform to some mental notions about how we should be. And maybe in your openness, then there can be openness coming from the other side as well. There's no guarantee like that, by the way. Thank you. Just as fresh as possible, as fresh as possible.

The person is so different. Oh no, no, you are too much for me, you're too much. It never works because that is the nature of the mind. So don't expect anything in this realm of perception, especially that body-mind object that we are calling ourselves a relationship with, to conform to some mental notions about how we should be. And maybe in your openness, then there can be openness coming from the other side as well. There's no guarantee like that, by the way. Thank you. Just as fresh as possible, as fresh as possible, as light, as open, as empty as possible.

Like a similar example, we had a beautiful conversation in satsang the other day where one said—I'm paraphrasing—but this one said, 'I've had a beautiful time. I was able to focus so many years on my spirituality, but now in life I realized that I need to make some money and I got a job that pays me some money, but it doesn't give me the joy that I wanted.' So I said, forget about the joy. You wanted the job so you could get the money; now you're getting the money. Now don't add your expectations on top of that. So that's what we do because we just say that. So basically, I said to this one: you bring the joy. Don't expect the job to bring the joy to you. You bring the joy to the job.

In the same way with the relationship also, don't expect the relationship to give you the joy, the peace, the life. You bring all of that stuff. Let the relationship be whatever it is. Don't expect any of this to come from any objective experience. Joy, love, peace—your very being is the source of all of these. If you're expecting it to come from phenomena, then that's a great fallacy. The pool, okay.

Father, I am still unclear about how to stay rested in beingness and the body-mind is moving from object to object. This may be a popular question, but wanted a fresh look at it. I'm still unsure about how to stay rested.

You can't do it. Just forget about it. I've not met anybody who could do it. This 'don't become anybody,' okay, maybe not now. What I'm saying is very simple: just don't take yourself to be that which you're not. The rest of it is my problem. Don't identify with the thought saying that you are this or you are the opposing facade about what you are. Then you are resting as the Self or being. So remaining the witnessing, all of that altitude. How do you become the unbeingness? Just leave your being behind. How do you do it? Seemingly only with your attention, isn't it? So is the movement of attention—would you call that your movement? Attention is moving, but are you moving?

So how can we make the unmoving come to rest? This is what I'm saying, that spiritual seekers suffer more than most. Nobody else in the world is trying to stay as the being and suffering from it. How to stay as that which you can never leave? How to solve the problem that doesn't exist? So freedom is not actually coming to a resolution of the problem of bondage; it is to see that no such problem ever was. So we must really stop trying to solve non-existent problems. The only problem is that of the misunderstanding called ignorance. There is nothing fundamentally tangible that has to be fixed. If it was a fundamentally tangible thing, like an objective thing, then Jnana Yoga could not work. This satsang could not work, you see.

Because maybe you need to do some yoga or something to put things... if you were broken, separate, so being was here, you were here, and like Humpty Dumpty, if you had to be put back together again, then just coming and listening to satsang could not help you. Somebody would need to get some super glue, put you back together, think, 'Ah, now you can just remain.' The reason why yoga works, quote-unquote, is because it is just a mental misunderstanding. This is a conceptual bad idea, and coming to satsang is to be rid of that bad idea. The bad idea is that of separation, of duality, that something ever really happened. And to remain in your notionless-ness and to remain in your unborn-ness is to remain empty of that idea. And empty of that idea, nothing has to be fixed, nothing has to be done.

Now we are stuck in the paradigm of problem-solution and problem-resolution by the way of doing. We feel like we are at a particular level and to get to the next level, to get to freedom or enlightenment or something, 'What do I have to do?' But it is not a doing; it is the clarification of a misunderstanding. So if you felt like your being is in Delhi and you have to travel to that, then I would say, okay, go to the airport, buy a ticket, board the flight. So practice one, practice two, practice three, practice four. But if you are your being and unseparable, it's all just one being, then what advice can I give you to stay rested in that which you cannot move from?

If you said to me, 'How do I sit where I'm sitting?' But you are. So what is the only problem? The only problem is that you think differently and you're expecting your thinking to change into the true way of thinking. The thinking can never change into the true way of thinking because thinking is too limited an instrument to convey the truth. So as you let go of your thought, if you don't claim truth value to thoughts, then what is the trouble? You're already all that you will ever be. And that is not bad news; it is good news. You are already all that you ever can be. Now if your thinking agrees or disagrees with that, it doesn't matter. It is not about your thinking. If you think you're God, there's still the ego. If you don't think you're God, if you think you're the ego, you're still never really. But in your thinking, if you're empty, if you're open and empty, there is only God. The simpler way of saying this, I don't think so. Okay.

Father, I would like you to speak about the use of the words consciousness and awareness in spirituality, as I have seen many spiritual teachers speak about them as the same. Experientially, I think it is just the use of different semantics. Can we say that consciousness is 'I Am' and awareness is beyond 'I Am'?

Yes, that is the way it is used in satsang here. But yes, many are using it differently and you must not worry so much about the semantical differences. Many are saying consciousness is beyond awareness; maybe they mean it in the opposite way. Maybe the term that they're using is the opposite to what we use in satsang. The point is not which terms are right; the point is to bring you to a recognition which is beyond all words. And I can tell you that in the recognition, even the distinction between consciousness and awareness is not relevant. Very helpful as pointers, so we may say, for example, that, 'Ah yes, I went to sleep at night, I woke up this morning,' and that sense of going to sleep or waking up, we can say that consciousness dissolved in its source and arose from its source. And we may say that that source, that pure witnessing awareness, is aware of the dissolution and arising of consciousness.

Some in India, like some of the traditional saints, they call it pure consciousness and limited consciousness. So we don't have to worry so much about the semantics. In the qualitative play, I'm sure you will recognize just qualitatively that the two questions, 'Am I aware now?' and 'Can I stop being?' they are different in terms of the qualities which are pointed to in these two questions. So this difference in quality, but not a difference in reality, is the difference between consciousness and awareness. So when I say, 'Are you aware now?' it's independent of even the sense of being. But when I say, 'Can you stop being?' you notice your infinite presence.

Then you say, sometimes it feels that even the primal 'I Am' or consciousness itself is a great illusion and veil on top of the absolute reality. But only within the 'I Am'—like this conclusion cannot be made outside of the 'I Am'. Dear Father, in your journey, did you ever go through wanting to try various things that the world has to offer and experience them once, like alcohol, etc.?

No, in my journey, especially alcohol, because some of you know that I had an uncle who was an alcoholic and created a lot of trouble when I was young. So it created an aversion here towards alcohol, so I never wanted to indulge in that. Also, what is this place of psychiatry compared to spirituality? Well, it has its place. It has... maybe we can speak more about that. What is the place of psychiatry compared to spirituality? In some places, like in our human existence, sometimes the human mind takes on a certain set of conditions and it seems very, very boxed in and difficult, and psychiatry can play a role over there. So I'm not opposed to psychiatry.

And also what can happen many times is that in spirituality we can have this sort of arrogance about everything. We were just talking the other day and using that—only the spiritual one will say, 'Okay, if my car is broken down, you see, and it needs a mechanic,' we will be the only ones who will say, 'No, no, let's not take it to the service station.' So we don't need to get into that kind of spiritual arrogance. So this body instrument, if it needs servicing from time to time, you know, like going to a doctor, it has a... then you answer the question.

I think it has a place, but it assumes the doer and thinker, and the medicines are chemicals that I just put on to sleep mostly. Is meditation, spiritual practices, and inquiry and grace a better solution to cure mental issues, etc.?

Well, openness is the key. Like I would say coming to this kind of satsang is the best—I usually wouldn't, but suppose I would say coming to this kind of satsang is the best—but it is nonsense for somebody who is not open, you see. So if somebody is struggling from a mental condition and I force them to inquire, 'Who are you really?' and they are not open to it, and if somebody else, a psychiatrist or a psychologist, can help them in the interim while they become open to such an inquiry, I am not aware of that. For me, the spiritual method and grace has always worked and slowly progress always happens. Everything gets resolved and sorted. That's good. So you're blessed in that way, that in your heart you feel a resonance to this and there's some openness to satsang.

Then you say, please bless Father, be with me during these times and always make me like you. One says, dear Father, in satsang we talk a lot about unlearning conceptual knowledge, but is there a place for me to learn things like physics, mathematics, biology, literature, etc., for example in order to have a job, etc.?

Yes. So to learn that Einstein came up with the theory of relativity and in the theory—which by the way is very fascinating, which tells you that everything is moving at the speed of light into the next moment, you see, but if you're moving at a particular speed in the three dimensions, then you're moving that much slower into the dimension of time—you learned this, you see that, and came up with this, and this is the idea about how all of this works. And you apply it; maybe you teach some children or you write a paper about it, whatever. All that is fine. But to take it to be true that this is what it is, you see, we have not tasted this experience in that way. But to take that conceptual knowledge to be just the gospel truth because somebody came up with it, that is what I'm saying we must not do.

So we realize that there is a lot of conceptual knowledge out there, and this body instrument is used as a vessel for communicating. All of what is shared in satsang is also conceptual; it's pointing to the non-conceptual, but we have to use concepts to make that communication, to aid that communication at least. In the same way, all of this conceptual knowledge can be shared. But if you take it to be the gospel truth in terms of what reality actually is, then we are just setting ourselves up for suffering or failure. So for a job, if you need to read a book and to reproduce it, no problem.

Next one says, thank you very much for your wisdom, Father. One says, Father, your explaining is so simple that one misses the obvious more often and gets involved in something. Okay, Olivera.

Communication, at least in the same way, all of this conceptual knowledge can be shared. But if you take it to be the possible truth in terms of what reality actually is, then we are just setting ourselves up for suffering or failure. So for a job, if you need to read a book and to reproduce it, no problem. Next one says, 'Thank you very much for your wisdom, Father.' One says, 'Father, what you are explaining is so simple that one may miss the obvious more often and get involved in something.' Okay, Olivera can come.

Namaste, Ananta. Thank you for allowing me to speak. I've been listening to Mooji Baba for years and years, and I'm very attracted to him and his teachings. And then I started listening to you too, and I'm so attracted to what you're saying. It goes so deeply. And what's happening now is that there's kind of an impossibility to live a daily life because—and I'm struggling with this for a pretty long time now—I totally adopted and totally believe the ideas that you share. And somehow it happened that I just want more and more. I don't know why, more and more to leave everything, to leave everything. I'm not interested in ordinary life, in anything anymore. It became impossible to go to work, to meet people, to do usual stuff. It's like I'm stuck between the two worlds. I believe that it is so because these ideas that I adopted are on the mental level only. So I think the ideas that you share are here, but somehow it became impossible for me to move on with my life. And I struggle really hard. It became... but I want to die. It became virtually impossible for me to move on a single step. I don't know, I'm getting something wrong, you know? There's some misunderstanding, but it's literally... I want to die. I don't want to move on. Can you help me, please?

Yes, let's talk. Let's talk a bit and see what we can do. Thank you for that report, firstly. And I want to first say that you're listening to Guruji and you're in Satsang here; my feeling is that it's all going to be beautiful grace. It may not always feel like beautiful grace; sometimes it may feel like acid grace, that is clear. But I'm sure that grace is working its way through now. When you say, for example, that you are adopting the ideas that I'm sharing, I just want to give mainly that my main idea is to not adopt ideas. That is the main idea.

So I cannot help it because I feel all that you're both—both Moojiji and you—I feel it's true. What you say it's true, but somehow I'm lost.

So can you take me through what happens? For example, suppose there is some work to be done or an email has to be sent.

Then I do it, but forcingly. I don't want to do anything. I just want to stop with everything and it's becoming... I mean, I've been struggling with it, but now it came to the point where I might just drop everything and just sit in the corner and wait for what's going to happen. I have no will of doing anything, of meeting anybody.

And for how long is it like this?

For months. For months, like almost a year. And it's becoming stronger and I'm now at the point where I just... I'm struggling with not just, you know, just do it.

Yeah, actually after I met Guruji the first time, for many, many months I didn't feel like doing anything. It sounds like you, actually. For many months I didn't want to get involved in any work thing. There was no interest coming. But at the same time, I was quite happy, actually. I was very happy with just being, just sitting or just being. So is it like that for you, that you're just very happy just with yourself?

No, no. There's total confusion because I know that what you're saying is true. I know, I feel it's all true, and still there's no... I'm happy only while I'm listening to Satsangs. I'm extremely unhappy. I'm extremely lost. It's like what I'm listening to sounds so true, and still while I have to live, it's all just forcing me. I have to do this, I have to do that, I have to go there. I don't feel like doing this, but I have to do that. And I don't want to live, but still, if I kill myself, my son is going to... I don't know. Something's wrong there. I'm making a mistake somewhere. I'm getting something wrong. There's no happiness. There's happiness only when I think of you and Guruji and when I listen to you, to both of you. It's like it gives me hope that one day it's going to be like that for me. But looking to my life and how I feel, it's just a great unhappiness, unfulfillment. Even now, I feel like I'm choking while I have to talk about it or I'm with you.

I'm with you too. First, I want to tell you that these ideas or thoughts about killing yourself or doing something to yourself is not... we have no guarantee that things become better after that. We don't know. Things could be much worse. So there is no need to think in that direction because there is really no... that is really not the solution. From whatever I see now, from the rest of what you say, it sounds like there's an idea about where I am or where the masters are, and an idea about where you are, and it seems to be an insurmountable gap between the two. It seems like it's too big and then you can't really grab it. You try, you listen to Satsang, you see, but you just can't seem to get to that point where these guys seem to be. And that can be very frustrating and irritating. I understand you. I hear you because for a long time I felt this way. For a long time I felt this way in the spiritual journey, as you may call it. So I had many such occasions where I felt so frustrated because reading 'I Am That,' for example, he would talk about staying with the sense 'I am' and I just couldn't do it. It was so frustrating. He said it was so simple: 'My master told me to stay with the sense I am and I just stayed for three years.' I used to be so frustrated. Most of you heard the story. I said, 'I can't do it for three minutes; he's talking about three years.' So this is just so... it grabs at you, you see. The truth grabs at you, touches your heart, you know it is true, you see, but it seems so unattainable.

Exactly. Yes, yes.

I understand this spiritual frustration because you're stuck. Because if you heard it and you felt like it is false, then you could drop it easily, isn't it? Then it's not a big thing.

Exactly.

But something also in the heart says, 'Come, come, this is the truth.' But when you try to grab at it, you keep missing it. So it's bound to be frustrating. I completely understand this. I completely understand this. But I want to tell you one thing: that if the Master's grace worked it out for this one, who was quite a terrible spiritual seeker, if the Master's grace can work it out for Ananta, it can work it out for everyone. Just patience. Just patience and as much openness as possible. Because Ananta, this one was never consistent with anything. One day kriyas, one day chanting, one day inquiry, one day something else, one day all over the place. It was not... if somebody said, 'Write a textbook about how you got to freedom,' it would be the most confusing thing that you could ever read. Hopeless, hopeless case. So if this one can, through the Master's grace, come to the recognition of what is, there is hope for everyone. There is hope for everyone in this universe. So just in your heart know that you want to be connected with the truth and you're open for this. But these times will come, these times of... and it's very normal. It happens for mostly... because in some cases it seems to be more, in some cases it seems to be less. But everyone who desires this, who longs for this truth in their heart, they will come to their fulfillment through my Master's grace. So I'm with you through this, and I'm happy to hear more from you in Satsang. And you're welcome to join every time and come up and share what you're feeling, what you're going through. And I realize that the answers maybe are not always the best solution, because I wish there was an answer I could just tell you and all your frustration could go away, but usually it doesn't work like that, you know? But I'm blessing you with my full being and my full presence, and may your journey become a little lighter, a little easier, and may all auspiciousness come to you. That is my blessing to you and to everyone.

Thank you. It's becoming better already. Thanks a lot. Thank you so much. I appreciate this opportunity because I didn't know how to reach anybody, how to ask for help, how to get an opportunity to share. And this was just so easy. I just told you what I'm struggling with. Thank you so much.

Thank you. I'm with you, and the Sangha is also with you. And all of us understand. Anyone here who has not felt frustrated in the last week? Nobody. See, nobody sitting in the room. It is part of this process. It is part of this process. And just... I was saying to another sweet child the other day that she was seeing that in her life there's so much frustration because what's happening also is in this time of Corona, there's a lot of anxiety, isolation—all of these things are being carried. So a lot of these kind of tendencies are getting stronger. So she was saying that sometimes I just feel like I want to jump out of a window or something. I said, instead of jumping out of a window, you jump into an aeroplane and you come to Bangalore and just don't entertain any of those kind of thoughts. I know that all of us have been through this kind of frustration with just not getting what the masters are saying and yet being so stuck because you can hear them in your heart saying... but they are speaking the truth. So it completely resonates with what I went through here as well. I'm with you. Thanks a lot.

Thank you so much. One says, 'Father, which path is to be followed for consistency in spiritual problems?' I just used this before my report. Well, what to say? I just said I was so... maybe the inconsistent consistency is good. Nothing. They'll be very inconsistent consistently. They rather should be due to what happened here than I have to say that if you feel in your heart that you can surrender, if you feel in your heart you can surrender, just let go. And that is easy. One says, 'The Dalai Lama walks into the pizza shop and says, "Can you make me one with everything?"' And says, 'I feel to apologize. I have been an hour late to Satsang for the last month and I didn't even realize it.' That's okay. Some daylight saving confusion. If you want the recording, it should be there, but it's okay. We can refresh. We can refresh. Okay, Cedar wants to come. Can't hear me or can't you see? Yeah, okay, we'll wait for it to come back. Okay, Madalina wants to come.

Thank you, Anantagi. Another child with disabilities, she's struggling in this time. She seems to be enjoying school, but at home she's very uncertain, sometimes aggressive, and I'm not sure if she's... maybe she's sick and she's suffering, but I can't say because she doesn't speak. So if I could have your blessings for her and also for me to, I guess, be blessed with wisdom, I guess, to be able to help her and find a way to... yeah, it's okay if that's something that she needs. And for my son as well, because he's going through all this together with us.

All the blessings. Father, is it better to be in a more natural, quieter, and less crowded environment to follow the spiritual path? Sometimes. Sometimes, not always, because there is no set template for freedom. Like I was taking this example of how it happened here; nobody would have suggested this kind of a spiritual path or something. But no harm if you can, if that is available to you, to be in a more natural, quieter, and less... it doesn't disqualify those who can't be in such an environment, but if it is a possibility, then... Next one says, 'Father, does the quality of our actions improve when we are less identified with the person?' Quality... well, in one way, traditionally speaking, yes. But everything is so subjective. Is this a good action or a bad?

If that happened here, nobody would have suggested this kind of a spiritual path or something. So, but no harm if you can—if that is available to you—to be in a more natural, quieter, and less... it doesn't disqualify those who can't be in such an environment, but if it is a possibility. Then next one says, 'Father, does the quality of our actions improve when we are less identified with the person?' Quality? Well, in one way, traditionally speaking, yes. But everything is so subjective. Is this a good action or a bad action? It depends on what you're feeling over a number. So, if you're angry with him, you say, 'Look at how he moves his hand.' If you're feeling very nice towards me, 'I just love the way he moves.' Is it a better action, or in itself, it is just what it is? That is life. Nothing has inherent meaning in that way; it all depends on the perspective that you bring.

This one says, 'What is the ultimate truth?' Capital T, capital U. Well, my favorite wrestler when I was young was the Ultimate Warrior. The question reminded me of that. The Ultimate Warrior is the ultimate truth. The good thing—sometimes it's not in the same physical location—you can't jump through the screen. In the gap between my words, the gap between my words and in the gap between your thoughts, is the ultimate truth.

Father, may I walk through self-inquiry with you at some point?

You can come now.

Namaste, Father. Thank you. I've been watching your videos online. This is my second Zoom call. I'm very grateful for everything you're doing. I have tried walking through the self-inquiry 'Who am I?' just starting this last week. A lot of resistance seems to come up: frustration, anger, things that I have a hard time managing on my own. So, eventually, I just give up, and that doesn't sit very well with me. I don't like that. So, if you know, if you could guide me through the 'Who am I?' and then I can keep you updated as to what's going on, and maybe you can push me a little bit further.

Okay, so you said that you started the self-inquiry last week?

Well, yeah, I've been doing it for a couple months, but not taking it full-heartedly, not taking it seriously.

So, how do you start? Just start. I will help you along the way. How do you start? What do you ask yourself?

So, I kind of close my eyes and I'll ask myself, 'Who am I?' and then I will response—my mind will say, 'I am this body.' And, you know, I try not to listen to that and I just, you know, go to the space that the question takes me.

But let's see if we can try a simpler way. So, just check in within: Who are you? Who am I? Check in and let any thought come. Let the thought come. When the thought comes, ask yourself: Who witnesses this thought?

There doesn't seem to be anyone who witnesses it. It is just witnessed.

And who knows that?

I don't know.

It's a good, good place to come to. So, don't mind the 'I don't know.' Firstly, one important tip in the inquiry is that if you start to love the 'I don't know,' then the inquiry will be better. If you start to be gravitated only to some sort of a conceptual knowing, then the inquiry will be pointless. So, already you've come to the 'I don't know.' It's very good. So, you said it is just witnessing or just the witnessed. You see, it is just whatever comes up is just witnessed. There doesn't seem to be anyone here. Then I said, 'But who knows that?' You say, 'I don't know.' That is very good.

Now, the thing is that when you checked, you're able to see that you are witnessing your thoughts, but who this 'you' is, is very unclear. Why is it unclear? Because you don't have a picture of it. It doesn't seem to have any attributes. Or you're not confused—maybe these thoughts I am not witnessing, somebody else is telling me that these thoughts are coming. It's not like that, isn't it?

No, it's clear that I am witnessing these thoughts, but who that 'I' is, that is confusing.

Yes.

There seems to be a lot of mental imagery as well, and sometimes I want to grab onto that and say, 'That's me,' but that is also witnessed. I don't know where that witnessing is coming from, though.

So, this is already very good to see that the mind will paint pictures for you, try to give you answers, and you see that even that is witnessed. Even that is. Now, this witness—it's you. You. Because otherwise, are you me? Are you just making this stuff up, or is somebody telling you about this?

No, this is my personal experience that everything seems to be witnessed. Like me talking to you right now, even there's a sense that that's witnessed. But there's something that's not settling about that. It doesn't seem to fulfill what I think it's supposed to fulfill. It's too simple.

Yes, yes. Now, it will not fulfill what you think it's supposed to do. Whatever you think it's supposed to do, it'll make sure it doesn't do that. So, both in terms of how it should feel like, what it should look like, what you should get as a result of it—all of this is just mental sideshow. It is irrelevant. So, let's do the inquiry another way. Who is looking at this hand right now?

I don't know, because I cannot say it was me, because even that 'me' is witnessed.

So, it sounds like somebody who's been inquiring for too long. So, this 'you' that is witnessing this hand, how do you know that that one is you?

Say that again?

You see, I'm witnessing the hand. Is it this 'I' itself? Can that be witnessed?

There's some blockage right now. It's not wanting to hear that question.

Yeah, these resistances are common. Don't worry about it. The thing is that nothing can ever block you, because you can only get blocked if you have to get somewhere, you see? If you had to take ten steps to take, then somebody could make a barricade on the fifth step and you could not cross. Here, you cannot be blocked because you are already yourself. Of course, the mind will try to confuse you and not let you hear the question, and yeah, something will start moving and distracting—all these things. But don't worry. Don't worry. Okay? Questions are quite simple, actually. It is you. You are aware of the perception of this hand, isn't it?

Yes, we're aware of the perception.

And yet this 'you' is not itself a perception. We did not perceive this 'you' or 'I'. Can you perceive the one that perceived the hand? And don't worry, all of this is being recorded. If there is too much that is a chatter, chatter, chatter, or not being able to focus, the recording is there. You can always visit it. So, don't stress yourself out about that. Don't worry about that. Where are we now? What did you hear last?

I don't remember. I think you said, 'Can the perceiver be perceived?' And yeah, just a dark space in my head. Nothing.

Okay, but don't... you're not in opposition to anything. A thought comes, it's fine. Dark space comes, it's fine. So, don't try to push away anything. Don't try to, like, focus too much or control your attention. Nothing. It's very simple, very, very simple. I just said that you are aware of the perception of this hand.

Yes.

This 'you' that is aware of this perception, is that itself perceivable? Now, are you just making it up conceptually that there is an 'I' that is aware? Are you just thinking about this 'I' and therefore it is imagining that there's an 'I' who is aware of this perception?

I think I am, yeah.

You would not be able to do that, you see, because that thinking takes time. Your awareness of this perception—like you're hearing these words, you see—is immediate, isn't it?

Yes.

So, the awareness of all of this perception is just naturally there, independent of your thinking and independent of any perception that you may have about yourself. The discovery of you as yourself is independent of whatever you may perceive or whatever you may be thinking about. Like, how do you know that it is you that is perceiving this hand? Did somebody tell you that that was you? No. Did you have to learn it from a book, or did you ever meet this 'you' and it came up and said, 'Hello, I am Mr. I'? Yet you know, isn't it? It's a knowledge which is not here, and it's a knowledge which is not perceivable like a perception, and yet it is a deeper knowledge.

So, nobody is actually ever confused about this. It is only that in the play of identity, in the play of belief and attention, we limit this which is clear to us. We limit it and we give it a boundary like a body-mind or our desires or all of these things. So, to let go of these limiting ideas is to remain in the truth about yourself. And you're absolutely right that the trouble is not that it's difficult; the trouble seems to be that it's too simple. The mind will say, 'But what did I get? What is he saying? Are we talking about the same thing?' He'll give you this kind of doubt and will even tell you things like, 'But if I discovered what he had discovered, then how come I am not talking like him?' All of these kind of things. So, don't worry about any of that sideshow, okay?

So, I've just put it to you the inquiry in another way, because sometimes we get a bit jaded from following the inquiry in a particular way. So, I'll put it to you in a very different, in a very simple way also to ask you: How do you know it is you that is aware?

Sorry, can you repeat that?

I just said: How do you know that it is you that is aware?

It's not something that I have to know personally. It's just... it's intuitive.

That's it. That's Atma Gyan. That's self-knowledge.

That doesn't seem as satisfying for some reason. I don't know.

The one who wants to be satisfied with it is the one that is going now. The one that wants, wants, wants is not this one; is not the one you intuitively know yourself to be. It is just a bundle of maybe spiritual desire in this case. Who should we try and satisfy? So, there's this idea deeply inbuilt into our spirituality as well, that once I come to the truth that I will be enlightened and I will be full of happiness and peace and joy. But the truth is different. When I come to the truth, I go. It's not that what I want, I get. I see actually that this 'I' was never here. That's why Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi said, 'I removes the I and it remains the I.' So, what happens? The true 'I' removes the false play of the false 'I', the limited 'I', and remains what it always is.

There is no deal that the truth has to have the followers. There is no deal that the discovery—your discovery, your intuitive intelligence about your own self—is supposed to give something to that one that doesn't exist or satisfy the one that doesn't exist. But I'm glad that you're relatively fresh, because you are able to meet my question so simply. Because usually what happens is when I speak to very advanced spiritual seekers, I'm not even able to get to this point so easily. So, I've had big trouble over the years just trying to get people to look at this question: How do you know that it is you perceiving this hand? You say, 'I just do.' You know what I mean? And I've said before that 'I just do' doesn't sound very exciting. So, we say intuitively that is self-knowledge. You discover that which does not come and go, does not have qualities or attributes, cannot have birth or death. It's such a simple discovery and it's always here for us. But the trouble is exactly what you said: we had an idea about what it should be, we have ideas about what it should do for me. All these only get in the way.

Well, thank you, Father. I will sit with that meeting that we had and I hope to check with you again in the future.

Always welcome. Very happy to hear from you. Thank you. Thanks. Okay, last few. Let's look at a few. 'Help me surrender everything, please. I am falling, feeling at it alone. Stand in my connection with God.' This is not a prayer with a desperate request; a request is the surrender. You are not failed at it. It has been received.

One says, 'How does Sri Guru Nanak use the...' It's a deeper topic. You can share a little bit today, but maybe deeper later. But as long as we have the idea of doing—and doing is a very, very primal idea in the human condition—it is best to say that it is consciousness itself, or God itself, who is the one doer. Guru. Everything is being done by grace, by Guru's grace. What is the...

Oh God, this is not a prayer with a desperate request. A request is the surrender. You are not failed at it; it has been received. One says, how does Sri Guru Nanak use the... it's a deeper topic. We can share a little bit today, but maybe deeper later. But as long as we have the idea of doing, and doing is a very, very primal idea in the human condition, it is best to say that it is consciousness itself or God itself who is the one doer. Guru, everything is being done by grace, by Guru's grace. What is the difference between this and the movement of a cloud? This hand is moving and the cloud is moving. What is the difference? Usually, the difference is in our heads where this movement is attached to an idea of agency which some apparent one called Ananta has. An idea of evolution, or are just movements, apparent movements on the screen of consciousness? So, I is consciousness. I'm moving this hand as much as I'm moving the cloud or moving the sun. But I is Ananta, who doesn't exist, obviously cannot move anything out in the non-existent abolition nor agency.

So, as you are coming to the discovery of the non-existence of an individual entity, it is the end of the idea of individual agency as well, which is a strange thing actually. Because many times we come to clear recognition, many times, about the non-existence of this individual entity, but we still get caught up in doers of individual duration. So then we see that both are just movements. Now the thing is that because we are so attached to the notion of doing, doing, we cannot let the movement be just a movement. We have to give it to some agent. And that is why... so this is a subtle topic, okay? So if it's beyond at this point, don't worry about it. Because in the human intellect, we are so caught up in this notion of doing, we cannot let all this dance of consciousness, we cannot let it be just as a movement. We have to ascribe some agent and say, 'You are.' I have to... we cannot rest in peace unless we have identified the doer.

So then we say, okay, you, consciousness, have to be the doer because... and that is not bad because that is the only existent that we find, isn't it? When we look, we only find 'I am.' So who was... if there is to be a doer, then who will be? I am. But I want you to be actually rid of the notion of doing itself because there is no such thing. Then you may say, 'Okay, it's all just a happening.' But I also want you to be rid of the notion of happening because nothing has ever happened. Maybe I am going too far. Happening means time. Happening means space and time. And space and time are just notional. Now, I don't want you to build a conceptual framework with all of this. It is just enough for me to shake up your conceptual framework and leave you open. In your openness, all of this will become your intuitive insight. You don't have to understand it here.

Okay, next one. Sorry I asked this question, Father, because if I had the option of asking only one question in my life, I would only ask this question: What is the ultimate truth?

Yes, sorry if it seemed like I was making too much fun of that question. But also what happens sometimes, we take ourselves too seriously, and you're taking yourself too seriously doesn't help. But my second answer, not the one about the ultimate warrior, but the second answer about the... in the space between the words, the truth is to be found. That was meant with full, full sincerity.

Next one says, hello Father. My relationship with my wife has a drop button. Yesterday we both spoke about separating. We are going to attend consultation from professional services, putting everything... Next one says, what a sharp and sweet satsang, like a knife made of honey.

I've heard that before. Thank you, I guess. Okay.

Next one says, thank you Father. It took me a while to digest what you said to me about spiritual arrogance. Thank you for clearing the cobwebs in this house, my script. Okay, one says, Rupert Spira said awakening will never happen neither later, literally at a later time. It is always ever now. So that is space, the things in space, newness, presence, what is perceived as today, this moment, seeing, etc. Can you clarify?

I would have to agree. And why would you not agree with somebody as sweet and great as Rupert? So I would say yes, awakening is now. Now, whatever I could explain about it won't be in the now. Just have to follow words right now of a great sage who had accomplished great accomplishments in the spiritual domain, and so much so that his master told him, 'Okay, I cannot give you any more. I am full, you see. You have to go to visit... go to a great sage. He will resolve your confusion, you know. He will give you the ultimate truth.'

So this one got very excited and said, 'I'm going to go to the sage. Give me the ultimate truth.' So this disciple walks so many days, comes to the ashram, meets the sage there and says, 'Oh great sage, my master sent me to you and he said that you will be the one able to give me the ultimate truth.' The sage is just quiet. Then, first time, this disciple felt like, 'Oh, the man must be hard of hearing.' So he said, 'Oh great sage, my great master has sent me to you because he thought that you will be able to give me the ultimate truth.' And yet the sage is still sitting quietly.

So this one, he tries a few times. By the end, he's very angry because he's a great disciple after all. So he says, 'I thought my master would have sent me to a worthy sage, but you, you are full of arrogance, you see. You are full of arrogance. He obviously misunderstood you. I should never have come here. What a waste.' Then the sage said, 'You asked, and every time you have asked, I have answered. But you have not listened. The answer is always there for you.' Good, good, good. Thank you all so much. What do you want to hear? I always ask, but I never take a suggestion. Did you place this video? Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. You.