You Never Really Get Pulled out of Your Self or of Your Being - 13th November 2020

Shaking with everything else.

Ah, okay. So are you talking about yourself as attention? Because attention can shake, isn't it? So are you shaking with the attention?

I'm talking about, I think, more in the sense of experience. Sure. I think I'm shaking more with the experience or my experience with—you're freezing up.

Okay, so let me say a few things about this. And okay, there's some message I'm getting about the volume, mic intake volume, high frequency sound, and my voice is also a little shrill. What if I change to this? Is this option better? And I'm going to change the input volume. How is it now? Still too much? Now better? Okay, let's keep it here for a bit and see. It's okay now? It's not too much? Okay, good. So when we say 'I am shaking along with the experience,' you see, we are identifying with what? Like, try to shake along with the experience now. You're experiencing the movement of this hand; you also move along with it. How would you do it? How would you do that? So hand is up, down, like this, like this, like this, and you feel like you've lost your center, you're all over the place. You see, all over the place. But who, what is moving? My hand behind itself, right? The hand is moving. And what was following this hand? The movement of the hand. You see, we are following it with our attention. So if you are not paying attention to it, for example, then you would not notice the movement of the hand.

Now what happens is that attention is such an intimate aspect of our existence that most of us relate attention with ourselves, you see? So if attention is on this, then I am there. If attention seems to be jumping from place to place, then it feels like I am getting jumpy and confused and going from place to place. But if you were to contemplate what attention is reporting back to, what do we find? Isn't it reporting back to myself?

Yes. Yes.

Now, is the self also jumping along with the attention?

I think so, because it is adapting as the—

Okay, don't think about it. Just check. Like, don't look at what you think you know. Just check right now. Try to—maybe you look around in the room. Try to send your attention as far as you can, bring it as close as you can. See whether the self to which it is reporting is also moving along with it. And all of us can try, no?

I don't think so. I don't think the self is responding to it. I don't see it.

You see? Can you see the one that you are that is moving along with the attention? Can you find such a one?

No.

You see? Now what happens is that you may be suffering from your spiritual ideas. Because in spirituality we learn that I have to be this way and I don't have to be that way, and if I'm centered or if I'm a certain way, then that is better, you see? Than just to be free. Like a child is not spiritual—like an infant is not spiritual, or a child is not spiritual. Their attention is also going everywhere. I don't feel like they lose their center, you see? It's just an idea that we have that we can lose that which we are. You see? Because what is at our center? It is our self, which cannot be shaken no matter what the content of the experience is.

Many times I ask: what can appear in the content of the world that can come and give a slap to awareness to shake up awareness a bit? You know, just what can come? The worst thing you can imagine, if it appears, you see, what gets shaken by it? The most horrible experience, what does that shake up? The attention, right? Not the person. Yes, yes, yes. The person anyway is just a belief system; it's just a figment of our imagination. But the reality of what you are, the self, you see, which is the pure witnessing itself, the pure awareness, remains unshaken through all of this, you see? So that which is unshakable, how to stabilize that? Aren't we already stabilized then?

Exactly.

So it's trying to solve a non-existent problem, isn't it? Okay. And that's what most spiritual seekers are trying to do. That which is already steady, you see, we're trying to stabilize that. And that which is inherently unstable, you see, we're trying to stabilize that. You see, both are not possible. Because to tie yourself to the content of your experiences and to expect to have a stable time is to try and tie yourself to a drunk donkey and expect a peaceful life, you see? It just can't happen, you see? So let the content move as the content is inherently designed to move, you see? Let it move. You don't have a judgment or interpretation about it. You remain notionless about that, you see? And then you will inherently see that your self is unshaken through all of this, you see?

And your self does not mean that it is the body, you see? One time what happened is that Shankara was sitting in the forest with his disciples and he was saying how the world is all an illusion and it's inherently changing and all this great stuff that we are talking about. And then a tiger came. Tiger came and Shankara was the first to run. And then the disciples also followed him. Shankara climbed a tree and so did his disciples, you know? So they all went hiding in a tree till the tiger went away. Now what happened is when they came back and convened again like this, everybody was a bit—you know, they were not as reverential as they were before. They were a bit—they were laughing at Shankara a bit. And Shankara said, 'So what's happening? What's going on with you guys?' you know? So they said, 'But you were just saying the world is Maya, it doesn't touch you, you see? The tiger came and you were the first to run,' you see? So Shankara said that the running of this body was also part of the Maya.

Okay, now the funnier end to this story is that Shankara said that, 'I know that the tiger is Maya, but the tiger doesn't know that it is Maya.' But the fact is that many times what happens is that we will take the movement of this body, which is part of this world creation that we experience and therefore inherently unstable and changing in its qualities—you see, last time we were talking about the play of the gunas: the rajas, sattva, and tamas. All these gunas, you see, they seem to operate and move this body in certain ways, you see? So we take that movement to be a statement or a report card about how stable we are, and that cannot be so. So if there is a tiger that is in front of you and there is fear that is arising, then that is not a statement about you as awareness. It is just a statement about an experience in the waking state, which in itself can be—any experience can show up, you see?

Have we gone too far? Because it can seem that 'I came into this because I wanted a stability of a certain set of experiences, so I wanted to be all shanti, shanti, shanti.' But what I'm saying is not that. I'm saying that find that which is always in shanti irrespective of the movement of the body-mind, you see? As you discover yourself to be that, then all this movement will not matter so much, or you will not be so concerned by it. In fact, I may go as far as to say you may even enjoy it, you see?

So, sorry, if I'm understanding you correct, then yeah, there's really three layers of it. It's not just cause and reaction, but there's another person even behind cause and reaction that is an observer to—

Yeah, let's not worry too much about the layers. Everything that is in time, you see, let's call it the world of Maya, whatever we want to call it—see, the universe, the apparent universe or the manifest, you can pick a term—everything that is in time is in that, you see? That which witnesses all of this movement, is that also in time?

Yes.

Ah, so time—how do you measure time? You see, what is time? Every second, every... but if there was no change, you see, you are able to measure the movement of time because there is a change. And change is part only of the manifest, you see? Like in the deep sleep state, sometimes you wake up and only 20 minutes of this world's time has passed and you felt like you had a full night's sleep sometimes, you see? Sometimes you slept for 10 hours of this world's time, but it seemed like you slept only for a moment. You just close your eyes, you see? So in the absence of phenomenal experience, this notion of time or the play of time doesn't seem to be experienced, you see? In fact, time is really never our experience; it is purely notional. But we'll look at that a little later.

The thing is that everything that is in time and space, that is the manifest world, you see? That which is witnessing this, can you tell me one attribute of that? One property? What color is it?

I'm not too sure.

You see? So you can look and check again and again, and you will notice that it is what is called Nirguna, which means absent of any attributes, you see, or quality. And nothing in time and space is like that. Everything in time and space has the properties of length, breadth, width, height, duration, you see? The four dimensions. But you, that is the witness of all of this, that is the pure awareness of all of this, does not have any of these properties. Like you cannot tell me how long the witness is or how broad the witness is, isn't it? You see? So you find yourself to be beyond this spatial or manifest universe. And I know to the mind that sounds crazy. It sounds beyond crazy, maybe it sounds like too much. But the fact is that you need a certain amount of openness to accept that you are not an object in this universe, you see? You have to—even if you don't go as far as to accept that the universe may be just an objective appearance within you, at least that much openness must be there, that you must be open to the idea that you are not an object in this world, you see?

And I know it goes contrary to everything that we have thought so far and everything that we've believed so far, you see? But you also heard in spirituality, when you were spiritual till two weeks ago, you felt that spiritual means the spirit is undying. Is undying, is untouched, is unhurt, you see? That is spirit, no? What would be the point of spirit if spirit also died? You see? Now there is nothing in the world which is undying. Everything has a duration, everything has a birth, everything has a death. So to be spiritual is to realize that which is beyond time, it is beyond space, you see? It is not about, not really about a way of life, although most people think it is like a way of life or 'how do I exist in a better way?' That at best is the byproduct that comes along with the recognition, you see? So you may look at the life of a sage and say, 'I want to live like she is living or he is living,' you see? But that is just a byproduct. It is not really... because every sage lives a different sort of life anyway. It's like everything in consciousness.

That which is beyond time, it is beyond space, you see. It is not about, not really about a way of life, although most people think it is like a way of life or 'How do I exist in a better way?' That at best is the byproduct that comes along with the recognition, you see. So you may look at the life of a sage and say, 'I want to live like she is living' or 'he is living,' you see, but that is just a byproduct. It is not really because every sage lives a different sort of life anyway. It's like everything in consciousness is unique, you see. So allow the byproduct to play out as it is meant to. You must prioritize the discovery of who you are, you see. Then you can look at how to live, whether to live spiritually or to live in a worldly way. First you have to know who you are, no? First, before you can determine how that one should live, you must be clear about what you are in the first place, you see. Otherwise, you may think that you are a turtle, you see, but actually you turned out to be a mongoose or something like that, and then you had this whole turtle life plan, but it doesn't make sense for a mongoose, no? Isn't it? I'm sorry if I'm choosing an inelegant example, but our plan for how to live must be based on who we are. Like whether to be spiritual or whether to be materialistic, whether to be childlike or whether to be all adult, you see, must be determined by who is there at the center, you see. So let's determine that first and then we can decide how we should live. Doesn't it make sense even intellectually?

So don't try to be deterministic about your way of existence. Don't try to make a box in terms of 'spiritual means this,' you see, 'materialistic means this.' The Zen master said, 'Before enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water; after enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water,' you see. So it can be that way, but I like to say it could be another way also. It is not necessary that it continues the same way. So my advice to you would be: don't worry so much about how your being; worry about first who is being. Who is here that is being, you see? Who are you? Makes sense? Makes a lot of sense. Very good, very good, very good. I'm happy to hear from you as always. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Okay, we have a few hands. Maria can come.

I felt the need to come to speak with you. And it's, I feel like it's exposing. I mean, I know it's something that it's not existing because I'm feeling it, but I believe it, you know? And then as you say, you know, I identify and everything starts. Yeah. And it wasn't so coherent this night, you know? It's fear. I wasn't able to even lift a candle. And the fear, it's about the devil. The devil possessing me. Like I want to bow down to you in my shrine and it's just like the news that come in, just like I swallow it, you know? I don't know how, but I swallow it. And well, yeah, and then it's like, 'No, no, you're bowing to me.' And I just have to say, 'No, no, you're not.' And then the past week I haven't been able to sleep. And I just lit the candle when I turn on the computer, the Zoom with you, and I was like, 'No, I'm with Mooji Baba, I'm with Ramana, I'm with Papaji.' But something that I'm not transcending. I had really bad nightmares when I was little and I fear to have those nightmares. And I sleep with the light on all night long for the past two years. And many years, only the first year I went with Mooji Baba I was able to turn off the light, but then... so it's something that I'm not transcending it. And I don't want to be, as Guruji calls it, seduced by this voice. I don't want to be, yeah, you know.

Yeah, so okay, okay. I hope so. It's good, it's good. So first, I just want to lighten it up a bit for you because I want to tell you that no matter what the experience may be, you see, it is only within your consciousness, you see. You do not have an experience in your deep sleep state. Only when your presence, the sense 'I am' is there, then you have an experience of something. You never have an experience without your sense of being, you see. Now this sense of being is inherently what you would call holy. It's inherently holy. It's consciousness. It is the divine presence. It is the Satguru. It is God. It is the Self, you see. And from this holiness, only holiness can actually appear, you see.

Now in the holiness, there is this appearance of this egoistic tendency, whether you call it the play of consciousness or the Leela, or you call it the play of transcendence or whatever you may like to call it. The fact is that consciousness for itself has also created this voice, which is the voice of limitation. It is the voice of separation. It is the voice of hate. It is the voice of resentment and guilt and unworthiness and all of these, you see. So what you may call the devil is just an extreme aspect or an extreme manifestation of this voice. It cannot be anything beyond that. It cannot be anything beyond consciousness. There is no duality in that way. It is not, in my experience, God versus the devil or a battle in that way, you see. It is just within consciousness, all the flavors which are appearing. And there is an intuitive voice which points you to your reality, and there is a sort of this egoistic or, if you want to call it that way, the devilish sort of voice which points you to a sort of separation, you see. But both are aspects of consciousness itself.

So don't worry. There is nothing in this appearance that can be stronger than your being, because all arises within that being. And secondly, nothing is truly in opposition to your being also, you see. So you must not be so fearful, because everything that appears is just a child of consciousness within consciousness itself, you see. Because if you fear the fear, then the fear seems to magnify, it seems to amplify and seems so much more difficult to manage, you see. Now the fact is that whatever may appear—most sublime experience or most horrific experience—who does it actually hurt?

Well, the mind, yeah. The body, yeah. Yeah, but yeah. And there is something inside, like really creates a lot of warmth inside when I'm feeling it, that it's like peaceful. That is true. And it is outside, yes, yes. Except if I'm pulled, if I'm pulled out, you get it.

But again, like we were saying with the previous question, now that the 'pulled out' is only attention, isn't it? So attention seems to get pulled out, then a message comes from the mind saying, 'You have lost your center' or something like that. Then consciousness buys into that message and it seems like it is true that it got pulled out, but it is never really true, you see. Try to send your attention as far as you can, you see. Make it leave you. Let it get pulled out from you. Can you do it? Send it all the way to Bangalore, and still you will find that it does not escape you. For some of you who are new, you may not really be able to process what I'm saying yet, but it's okay. Don't worry about it so much.

The fact is that our attention is just like—provisionally I'm going to say this, it's not true—but it's like a navigation system within our being, you see. Our perceptual navigation in a way. So we can say where attention goes, that's what we perceive. But all of this is just visiting our own consciousness, you see. It's like visiting our own dream without using our attention. So you never really get pulled out of yourself or of your being. You can try and see.

Well, I've been trying. I went to the moon, I went to...

Yes, you did all the attention, but no, it is very stable. Attention cannot leave you, you see. It is just traveling within your own being and visiting aspects of your own being, your own immense Atma, you see. An unbound Atma. You are the boundless ocean, as Ashtavakra said. So this boundless ocean is beyond all time and space, yet with the play of attention we seem to make it spatial and temporal, as if it has time and space, and we seem to lead this linear sort of life, you see. But if you forget about this linearity and step back from time and space, don't be concerned about anything happening in consciousness for a moment, you see. Like Bhagwan said in his last few lectures, satsangs, that 'forget about consciousness,' which means what? You can't really forget about it, but you can become unconcerned by whatever may be happening within consciousness, you see. Then you're not trying to hold on to some state or be worried about, 'Oh, I'm going to lose this and this is going to come or that is going to go.' Let everything come and go. Nothing touches you, you see.

Freedom or vigilance does not mean that we become scared of being attacked constantly and we're trying to hold on to ourselves, you see. That doesn't look very free. Many of us have this idea that 'I have to just grab myself and hold on to it,' and they've become inherently very fearful that way, actually, you see. Freedom is freedom. Just be free. Whatever comes, comes. Nothing real can be threatened, you see. As it says in A Course in Miracles: 'Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal has ever existed. Herein lies the peace of God.' That's how you come to peace. Otherwise, if you're constantly worried about what is going to show up in the realm of experiences, you see, then something will always... the mind will always play hide and seek with you. Peek-a-boo! 'Let it come and shake you now, let's see what you can do.'

Well, I wanted to do a trial with you, like to come like the consciousness, like I'm the devil, but I'm not aware... I fear that.

Yeah, you're welcome. Welcome it. Welcome, Mr. Devil. Let's see, let's see, let's see what it is, what it has got, you see.

Well, in front of you it has no power.

And what is this 'you' that it is in front of? This 'you' is not Ananta, you see. This 'you' is just because you are so aware of your divine presence at the moment, your own being, that in front of your being it really doesn't have power. It is not about this body-mind called Ananta, of course, because this instrument is just pointing you to your own presence. So as you allow yourself to experience your presence, you feel so reassured because this one is sitting in front of you that you can allow yourself to just be, just the being. That's why now you notice that in front of your own being, this whatever may come doesn't really have any power. Everything is a child of consciousness. Everything. Consciousness cannot be scared, although it may play sometimes—to play with the children, you pretend as if you are—but don't take the pretense to be reality.

So beautiful. Just like a game.

It's a game. It's a Leela, no? The Leela is called the play, the divine play, the divine drama, the divine game.

I'm drinking from what you're saying. Good, because it's beyond what I can understand with my mind.

Yes, yes. That itself is a great maturity. To come to an acceptance of that in the mind, that the mind cannot understand, is probably the highest that the mind can understand, you see. The highest that the mind can understand is that you cannot understand.

Father, I have another question. You know, like I keep drinking from this, but I have another question and it's regarding the first time I met Mooji Baba. That same time I met Amma and I mean, I was like very sure because I called like, 'The first master that calls me, that's going to be my master,' and it was Mooji. But Mooji Baba doesn't give mantras and I kept... well, he didn't know he gave the easiest mantra also. Truth is given, but at that time I didn't have one and I asked one to Amma. And I don't know if it's okay to do it, but I don't want to be, you know, separated from Mooji Baba if I'm doing that mantra, because they told me, you know? So I don't know if it's the right thing to do or not. So I've been like hesitating on doing it or not doing it, and I prefer to ask you.

Yes, yeah. Because... so I would say, and hopefully this will make it very simple for you, that anything that makes you open and empty makes you free, you see. Is Mooji Baba, you see, is... and if you don't want to call it Mooji Baba, then we can call it Satguru.

I don't want to be, you know, pulled or separated from Mooji Baba if I'm doing that mantra because they told me, you know. So I don't know if it's the right thing to do or not. So I've been, like, hesitating on doing it or not doing it, and I prefer to ask you.

Yes, yeah. Because, so I would say—and hopefully this will make it very simple for you—that anything that makes you open and empty makes you free, you see. Is Mooji Baba, you see, is... and if you don't want to call it Mooji Baba, then we can call it Satguru or whatever you want to call it. Perfect. Then it's perfect, you see. So, it's my Father's grace. Whatever makes you open and makes you empty, it makes you light, it makes you spacious, you see. Whichever expression it may be, whichever mouth may be talking, is my Father's grace.

So if the mantra helps you in that way, that it makes you feel open, it makes you feel light, it's Guruji's grace. It's my Father's grace. It's fine. So the Master is not a body. It's not a particular expression. All of these expressions are just aspects of the same divine presence, you see, of the same divine presence which is pointing you within, you see. And they show up in exactly the right form, you see, that you need to find so that they can point you to themselves within you, you see.

You don't need a... if you had the openness to see, to recognize the holiness of your own being, then an external Master would not need to appear to you. All these expressions are only coming so that they point you to your own divine presence, you see. And the fact is that I have to say that I have not come across anyone who has discovered their divine presence within without the help of a living Master. It is possible, of course; in consciousness everything is possible. But I'm just saying that in this life I have not experienced that. So the acceptance and the presence of a living Master seems to be a great help for us in discovering our own Master within.

But we don't need to become conflicted about these things. Who is my actual Master? I do the invitation with Guruji and I do the Amma's mantra and I'm trying to be open and empty, you see. So who is my Master? It's all a bit confusion, you see. Don't worry about any of that. Everything is your Master if it is pointing you to openness. Everything is the ego if it is making you close. So that is a nicer version of what I was saying the other day. Someone said to me—we were just talking jokingly, no—so somebody said, 'Ananta, is it okay if I listen to many masters?' I said, 'Of course, it's good for me because the more confused you are, the better it is for me.' So the first answer was better.

So simply put, if your mantra is making you peaceful, open, empty, please, no harm. But I was talking about Guruji's mantra of 'Thank You.' I don't know if you've seen that video. That is probably one of the sweetest videos and simplest also. If you want to... like many times we struggle to explain to people what is shared in satsang and people are not open to, you know, this kind of inquiry and things, then that video is probably the best to share with them because they will understand that at least. Just thank you, thank you very much, thank you, thank you so much, thank you so much.

Okay, I'm going to read a couple of things and then go to the next question now. Okay, next one says: 'Even beingness or consciousness is in time as it is not there in sleep state.' Ah, see, that is the beautiful mystery. So beautiful contemplation, you see, because we notice that once 'I am,' then there is this play of time and space, you see. It is not there without the sense of being, you see. And yet for awareness, even being is coming, going. So in which time does that happen? You see, there is no answer to this kind of question, but it's a beautiful contemplation. And there is an answer, but it is not speakable. So in your intuitive understanding, you will not be confused about this, but these kind of contemplations are very useful actually.

Then you say: 'In awareness I can't even say I am or I am not.' Yes, you can't even say. Can't even say or can say is the absence of... in pure awareness is prior to all that is manifest. Okay. Okay, next one is Puneet. Puneet can come.

Namaste. Namaste. This is my first satsang and I'm so happy for this opportunity. Thank you. Yeah, I have so many questions to ask but, you know, I'm so confused to which one to go first. But maybe I'll just go so that I just find a way to ask more. Yeah, I've been practicing all these—I don't want to call it as a spirituality or finding a peace or something—but I've been practicing this from a couple of years, maybe three to four years, or maybe three years, I don't remember. Initially it was all like, you know, finding the teachings of so many masters or a teacher said, yeah. But all those time I had an idea about something that I was going to find. Yeah. But lately when I was listening to Mooji Baba and Papaji and Ramana Maharshi as well, but I was not so aware of what it is now.

Can you repeat the last part where you were listening to all of them and then what happened?

I mean, I had an idea for everything. I had an idea that I was searching for something, you know. I was searching for a peace or I was searching for, you know, way of life kind of a thing. But very recently all these ideas got vanished. Now I know, I know what it is. It is so unexplainable. Yeah, you know, one of the guided meditations of Mooji Baba, I even experienced it, you know. I can't say that I saw it or something like that, but I experienced it. But the problem is that there is blockage somewhere. I don't know if it is my identity or some idea. I didn't even question that what I saw, what I experienced was the truth. I didn't even question that, I believe. But there's a blockage that... to accept that as me. I don't know if it is my ego or my identity or something.

There are too many voices coming and saying, 'That is you, that is you, that is you.' But somewhere, I don't know how to explain that, but somewhere there's a blockage. Even though I know I belong today, but I'm not totally conscious about that. When I experience it, I know, I know that what it is, but it's not while I'm meditating or something. But it's not even thoughts are bothering me today in these days, like, you know, I watch thoughts coming and going. But there is a blockage to totally surrender, totally accept the facts, the truth. Yeah, let me see time for it so that I will be allowed to ask my next question.

Okay. So if by 'accept' you mean that you have to believe it, you see, then you don't have to bother with that, you see. We may feel like this kind of Atma Gyan is like any other type of knowledge, that it comes to become truth or something like this only after it becomes a belief for us, you see. Now you're looking at this hand; you don't have to believe it. It is perceptual knowledge which is taken to be more true than conceptual knowledge, you see. We say seeing is believing, you see. But what that means is that once you have the perception of it, then you don't have to believe it. But Atma Gyan is prior even to perceptual knowledge, you see.

If you believe it, it doesn't matter. If you don't believe it, it doesn't matter. The fact is that once you, as you say, you have the experience of it, your acceptance or non-acceptance of it is a question of belief and conviction. But we are not talking about becoming convinced about the truth, you see. It is beyond conviction or belief, you see. It becomes as clear as day. Do you have to believe that the sun gives light to the earth? You see, you experience the rays of the sun, so you don't have to believe it or accept it anymore. Do you have to believe that you're sitting on earth? You see, you have taken it to be a fact. You have conceptual knowledge. So conceptual knowledge we take to be true and we work on belief, you see. We hear more and more concepts and our belief becomes stronger and stronger. Perceptual knowledge becomes stronger and stronger the more times we experience something perceptually. But Atma Gyan, you see, is beyond this. It is beyond concept, is beyond percept.

So what happens when you are no longer trying to accept it? The truth will always be. It is just so apparent when you open, when you are not interpreting or judging what you are perceiving, then that which is beyond perception is completely apparent to you. Even otherwise, actually, it is apparent to you, but it seems to get clouded up in our attachment to our concepts and our ideas.

But maybe I have a dread, I have read, or maybe I have anger of dissolving in that state. Yes, I don't know if I'm doing it right or wrong. I'm doing it as a practice sometimes and, you know, I don't know what should dissolve. What should dissolve in that state? Myself? My... I don't know how to say.

Whatever needs to dissolve is dissolved like this. You cannot carry any salt with you that needs to be dissolved into this moment. You are already dissolved, you see. Now the mind offers you some more salt saying, 'Here, here you go, you need to dissolve this,' you see. And we take that to be true and we get into the belief that something is incomplete, like you were talking about being blocked, you see. But if you had nowhere to go, then how would you be blocked? You can get blocked only if there's a destination that you have to get to. If your starting point itself is the truth, is the destination, then it is impossible to be blocked, you see.

What can happen—and this happens to most—is that the mind in one way or the other is asking the question, 'So what did I get?' or 'What's in it for me in the discovery of the truth?' you see. And that seems like it is a block, you see. 'I started this spiritual journey, I had these spiritual experiences, I found the ultimate truth, but at the end what did I get?' The 'I' was just found out to be non-existent, you see. So the non-existent one does not get anything. And that is a big problem for the non-existent one. It will say, 'But at least I should have dissolved.' It's only the thief dressed up as the policeman, you see, pretending to catch the thief, as Bhagavan said. So don't worry about your mind's ideas of blockage and not getting it fully and all of these ideas.

Because I had this... answers many of my questions actually. Wow. Yeah, but I still, I want to ask one more thing. Yes.

Yeah, it's your first satsang so you have full license. It's the honeymoon period, you know.

Maybe because of a habit of this material life that I have been doing everything as a practice. When I hear paintings of Papaji, Ramana Maharshi, or Mooji Baba, every time when it is a direction or even if not, you know, they all ask me or say me, command me to, you know, trace the source of the thoughts where it comes from. Yeah. Then you find... I find the source of the 'I' so that you will get experience of yourself. It's not seen or something but it's... but I don't know if I'm, you know, understanding that as an idea, but I don't know how to do that. Maybe that is if... I feel like, you know, if I just understand that well, maybe I'll be clear in this way. So if I understand what it is, or if I understand what it is, if I get what it is, yeah, maybe I'll be more clear in this way.

Yes, yes. I can give you a tip, you see. Now spiritual instruction is different in one way from worldly instruction, you see. If you're given an instruction in the world, then you better try your very best to try and achieve that, to try and do it with all your effort, you see. Now spiritual instruction is the opposite of that. Like the words of satsang, you have to allow them to do the work. You have to get out of the way, you see. And if you don't understand that, don't even worry about that, you see. Just allow it to assimilate in the most organic, most natural fashion, you see. If you try to do it, then you will only confuse yourself more. Your trying actually is what is getting in the way, you see. Just become open. Let the words and the pointers of the masters, just let them do their work, you see. Like we call Sat...

Opposite of that, like the words of satsang, you have to allow them to do the work. You have to get out of the way, you see? And if you don't understand that, don't even worry about that, you see. Just allow it to assimilate in the most organic, most natural fashion, you see. If you try to do it, then you will only confuse yourself more. Your trying, actually, is what is getting in the way, you see. Just become open. Let the words and the pointers of the masters, just let them do their work, you see. Like we call satsang consciousness speaking with consciousness. So your personal intervention even in this conversation is not going to achieve anything, you see. It is just consciousness reminding itself of its true nature. Now, of course, that's an intellectual question as to why consciousness would need a reminder, but don't worry about that for now. You just let it seep in. You just allow it to do so.

When Guruji gives you the instruction, you see, then it is potent enough, it is atomic enough to explode within you, you see. If you try to pull out the pin and throw it in the right place and explode it, you see, then it's just going to become a mess. So that makes it very easy and effortless here, because many struggle to follow the guided meditation because they're too much effort, you see. They're trying to become the emptiness; they're trying to see how they're beyond time and space. There's too much trying, trying, and that just gets in the way. Just become, just empty yourself as much as you can. Be as natural and open as you can.

Yeah, that's all. What I understood is that be free and be open. Yes, thank you. Thank you, lovely.

Oh, welcome. Thank you. Okay, next is let's hear from Paula. Paula has her hand up.

It's so unique and so special to be here with you. And I don't have like any specific question, just this yearning for just speak with you and just let it be whatever it is in this moment. Because I've experienced many times all this preparation of this moment and it's not needed at all. Yeah, it's just the joy of your presence and to really make the best use of this time with you because it's unique and I don't know if it's going to happen again, although I know you are here with me and you have been with me all the time. And I just want to share with you that there's, I feel there is so much joy lately. And it's like what Guruji speaks about this, the fragrance is more and more present in spite of whatever is happening. And I just, I'm just here for whatever comes. And I would just love your guidance if there's anything that we can explore now. And it's just, it's already, it's just this already.

It sounds very beautiful already. It sounds very beautiful. And something is coming up to ask you, and you can take it lightly and see what comes up in response. Do you feel in your heart that your discovery of yourself is clear?

More and more I feel it is. It's just the confirmation of your words and Guruji's words. Yes, yes. It's in the simplicity of it. And it is that what is blowing my mind basically, the simplicity. Because I feel there was so many ideas and expectations and comparison with the experiences of another ones. But here it's just, it humbles me a lot. It's just... and maybe what there's this clarity that I don't know if I start just thinking about it, it comes confusing. But the beyond time notion, which is as I feel it, it's like being like the end of mind maybe, or intellect or conceptual. Yeah, I feel maybe there's like an idea of that, how is that total experience of being out of time? And probably that's what maybe keeps being there, probably. I don't know.

All of these questions, and you know that I usually employ the inversion method, no? I try to invert the problem usually because the mind presents these problems which are actually non-existent. So when we invert the problem, we realize that they're not true. So when the mind says to you, "But what would that be to be completely out of time?" you see, then you can ask yourself this question: Can I be in time? Like, can you be in time right now and show me? Like, get inside time. Don't let time be inside you; you get inside time, you see. Are you in time?

It feels like I don't even know what time is.

Yes. In fact, there is no time. So of course time is a notion; beyond time is also a notion. You are right about that, you see. But as a notion, it is a pointer to shake up the idea of time that we seem to be accustomed to so much.

There's like this habit of trying to think about it. It's just that.

But these kind of questions are not the questions where the mind will make much headway, you know. It's not used to answering these kind of questions. So in a way, it will exhaust itself and come to a tiredness of trying to answer these kind of questions. And that's also fine. That's also fine. And I'm very happy to hear from you. I'm very, very happy. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. There's so much love. Thank you so much love. Thank you.

Okay, let me read one chat message before I come back to the questions. "Thank you, Father, for helping me discern between action and non-action." Very welcome. "Although I can sense this question keeps bringing the doer into shape, I need your guidance on that."

So, okay, so let's look at it closely now, this idea of doership, you see. So I ask this often, and maybe this is what I told you last time also: How is this different from the wind blowing, you see? The wind is blowing versus this, how is it different, you see? Now you may say that it is different because there is an Ananta who is doing this, and you may say the wind is blowing by itself or consciousness is blowing it or whatever you may say. But there is a difference according to our mind between the two things.

But from direct experience, I can tell you that there is no such Ananta sitting here, you see. There is no such Ananta with an agency or volition who is moving this hand, you see. So this movement, or this movement of the mouth or the hand or any sort of action, is as much like any other movement which is perceived, you see. And therefore it is all in the same degree.

Now in humanity, we have this idea of doership and we are so obsessed with the idea of doership, you see, that we have to pin the blame on somebody. We have to pin the doership on somebody because we cannot accept that there is no such thing as doership. So then we say, we graduate from it being the notion that it's individual doership, and then we graduate to a higher notion which is that, okay, it is the doing of God. God is doing everything. Not a blade of grass moves unless it is the will of God. We graduate to those notions, you see.

The thing is that it is not necessarily like if everything is the doing of consciousness, there is no such real thing as doing. Everything is just happening, you see. Now that leads to a deeper contemplation. That leads to even deeper contemplation that without interference or interpretation from the mind, is there even something like a happening? We've been talking about time so much today, you see. Without our mind, is there time? I feel like it was Krishnamurti or maybe I'm right about this, that Krishnamurti said at the end of the mind is the end of time. What could he mean by that?

So this idea of happening is also notional, is also in time, is also in the mind. So not only is there no individual doership or agency and it is all happening, but ultimately it is not even happening. So all these distinctions between happening, not happening, being, not being, existent, non-existent, Self and not-Self, all these distinctions, all these opposites fade away. Okay, that's what's coming up here in response to your message.

Next one says, "Okay Father, J. Krishnamurti once said the observer is the observed. Very beautiful. Can you throw some light on this?" I'm throwing light on this every time, you see. How you know it is you that is aware of this perception? What do you observe to confirm it is you? It is a non-perceptual observation. Like Guruji says, it is the only non-phenomenal experience that you will ever have is the experience of yourself. With what tool can you confirm that it is you that is perceiving or that is aware of the perception? What tool do you use? It itself confirmed. That's why it's called self-illuminating, self-effulgent. Everything else needs it. It is the substratum for all other experience, but it itself doesn't need any other tool or help to know itself. It is the knowing itself. It is the awareness itself.

I am the awareness itself. And why I said that is because sometimes in saying it, we create an inadvertent distance between ourselves and it. So in fact, this is my favorite question: How do you know that it is you that is aware of any of these perceptions? You say perception is there, you see, of course I am aware of it. But is this "I" perceived? And yet you know you are not confused about that. You're only confused about the shape of this one. You may say, "I don't know if it is me," but actually you're not really saying that. What you're saying is that "I can't see it," you know, or "I can't conceptualize it," you see. That is the greatness of it. If it was just another objective seeing, then it would not be so great. If it was just conceptual like so many other conceptual things, then we would not need to be so reverential in a way towards it.

Okay, you say, "My highest pointing, which is highest pointing is blah blah blah." It is true if you make sure you don't understand it. If you understand it, then it's another one of the hundreds of pointings. Okay, let me hear from Shiv. I haven't heard from him in a while.

No, Father. Hello, my dear. It's been so long since I've asked you a question when the environment was well lit. Yes, so I thought today... so, I mean, I've asked you this question in different ways many times and mostly you've told me that you're on the guru bus, don't bother about which destination is on the way. Yes, yeah. So that answer won't... well, let's see. Yeah, so and also many other things you said today in satsang, yeah, that it's only distinction that creates any problem. So, but I mean, I've been reading from this Sangha of Love page, I don't know if it's run by the sangha, but there's that Facebook page and from there I've been seeing these sort of excerpts which say that you stay with the I Am, that's one sub-school. And the other one keeps talking about how the end of all of this is to understand that there is no separate self, there's no individual agency, like you also say now, that their road is too narrow for either they can be God's will or they can be individual with all of that.

So well, actually I said that I was quoting the saint Rahim Ji. They cannot both be. If there is me, then there is no God, and if there is God, then there is no me.

Yeah, so I've heard this many times, but it's only recently that I've actually tried to, you know, look in the sense you say that it's a second-level illusion, that it's not even there in the perceptual and it may be conceptual but it's not in the perception. So I've tried to do that contemplation in the sense like what sensory inputs we get, can I find any sensory quality of this self? I mean, for instance, when I'm meditating, I ask who is sitting and who is meditating, things like that. And like when I ask who am I, it goes to this, the base of the chest. And when I ask those sort of questions like who is meditating, then there's this area gets lit up a bit. I don't know if I'm using... in the sense that's what it points to, if I take that to be a pointer also. So I'm like, I've been doing this, but it's still like somehow that...

So sorry, pause. I would recommend that you don't take it to be a pointer. You just take it to be a byproduct, you see, and enjoy the byproduct. But don't take it to imply some truth or something like that, you see. Because otherwise then you will get more concerned with the sensory byproducts of your inquiry rather than that which witnesses.

I'm using like in the sense that's what it points to, if I take that to be a pointer also. So I'm like, uh, I've been doing this but, uh, it's still like somehow that...

Sorry, pause. Um, I would recommend that you don't take it to be a pointer. You just take it to be a byproduct, you see, and enjoy the byproduct, but don't take it to imply some truth or something like that, you see? Because otherwise then you will get, uh, more concerned with the sensory byproducts of your inquiry rather than that which witnesses all these sensations and movements anyway.

Like the reason I'm doing that is because I believe that by doing that I'll be able to see through the illusion that there is something individual agency. Yes, yes, but I'm doing this seeing but I'm not, you know, I'm still not dropping that belief.

Yeah, that's fine, that's fine. So if you look at it in that way, saying who is here who is doing any of this, or who is here that even perceives any of this? Yes, yeah. So what can you do? So concerned about the quality of the perception or the region of the perception? Not to get so worried about that, but more to really say, you see, what is it, what is it that is perceiving this? You see, what is it that notices this movement, whether it's heart, whether it's head, whatever the sensation may be? What witnesses that?

So that's the thing. When I go to that heart thing, that the base of the chest or sternum maybe, so when I ask, my mind goes there and when I get that kind of tingling sensation, and that's a phenomenal thing. So I ask who's aware of that? It's still the same tingling thing. So sometimes I get the feeling that that is that I am, but sometimes that feeling is also not there.

It's fine. The core of your existence, sometimes you experience it in the heart, no? Like Bhagwan used to call the heart the seat of the being itself, which is fine. But the question then still remains that because you said, 'I've written, I try to ask myself who witnesses that and there's even more tingling' or yeah, even if you said there's no tingling, it doesn't matter because it's not about the tingling. The question was about who is witnessing that.

Yeah, yeah, it is. But I get the impression that that area lights up, so that's the answer. So maybe what is there is what is witnessing this.

It would be the answer if you could confirm that it is the tingling which is aware of the tingling. Is it like that?

Yeah, that's how it is sometimes. Sometimes even that isn't there.

But okay, when the tingling is not there, then who's aware? Then the awareness remains untouched, no? Whether there is tingling sensation, whether there is no tingling sensation, whether there is sensation or no sensation at all. Even to say that there is no sensation actually expanded only means that I'm aware that there is no sensation. So awareness is always there whether we like it or not. Who's aware of the non-tingling?

So what happens is that when I ask that pointer 'Who am I now?' and, uh, in addition to that, what you say that that pointing can never go wrong, it's like a time zone. It's tingling, I say that, and when I ask who's aware of the thing, it's still the tingling. Then I say that's who I am. And, uh, when I ask the question and I don't find the tingling, then I just pursue that not-that, no-quality thing. And since I take your word to be true that the pointer can never go wrong, I think that to be...

Yes, this is a very good point and I'm glad you mentioned it. So the inquiry never fails. Yeah, it never fails, but your interpretation of the answer is not to be trusted in that way. Like the meaning which is derived mentally: 'Ah, Ananta said inquiry never fails, so every time I ask who am I, then the tingling appears, you see? Therefore then it must be the tingling which is the answer to who am I.' So it is an inference which is made in the intellect which is saying 'therefore then,' you see? Something is more direct than that. So when I say the inquiry never fails, you see, you say 'Who am I?' and the response, if it is the tingling, will still be in time. Yeah, you may say, 'Ananta, it comes really fast,' you see, but you cannot tell me it is 'Who am I? Tingling.' You see, it is never that direct, you see. So what is instantaneous? What if the answer needs no time?

So even if my attention doesn't go there, I'm aware of it. Is that also a quality of it in the sense...

Yes, yes. Independent of attention, who are you?

That's the thing. When I ask 'Who am I?' or 'Who is aware of this perception?' any pointer, then it goes to that place. But when I don't ask that, then many times it doesn't go there.

Correct. So independent of where it is or not, you see, the answer is instantly available to you. And if you want to give, grab a sip of water or something, I'm happy to wait. My day, don't worry, it's okay. Okay, okay. So, so this, you see, when I say it is the answer, it is like saying when I do this, no, like before you hear the sound of the click, before you hear the sound of the click, the answer is there with you. And but that tingling will not start so fast, or any experience will not come and go so fast. Yeah, easy. Now see if you can, uh, not struggle with it. Like be with it but not grasp at it, you see? I know it can sound very confusing to the mind. So just, just open up. Just open up, you see? Because to be with it, uh, without even trying to like be with it, you know, just like allow it without trying to grasp it, and the apparency of it will become clearer and clearer.

But I want to see through this illusion of separate self, separate agents, the individual will. So why is that not happening when I'm still there, that belief?

Though I can't find it, there is one... I talk about this Ayurvedic, um, sort of thing, no? Presumably Ayurvedic, where in Rishikesh and small towns in India you have these small carts and they have this red pill or something in that. So whatever your ailment may be, you see, ten rupees you buy that bottle of these small red pills and it will sort you out, you see? So your self-discovery, your self-realization will bring all of these insights about non-doership, non-desiring, non-duality. All of this becomes apparent to you. So, so how about when I ask you, are you aware of the perception of this hand?

Yeah.

You see, how do you know it's you? You received that before. I mean, it goes to that place only, that chest place.

No, but is that chest place aware of the perception of this hand? Can I ask who is aware of that? Hand is going to that perception.

Okay, and who's aware of the chest? Please let the attention go wherever it is going. Who is the attention reporting back to?

It stays there. That's it. The attention stays there when I ask who is aware of that.

It's fine. So let it stay there. Attention stays there, yeah? Is it the sensation on both ends of the attention? Let's see if you can make some headway with this question. You see, there is sensation in front of attention. Let's say provisionally that there attention is perceiving the sensation. Is it, is it going back also into the same sensation or is it coming back to you, you see?

It's coming back at the core and this is at some reason that core lights up, you know, it starts tingling.

So attention goes on the lighting up, you see? Yeah, yeah. And it is reporting back to you that it's lighting up, you see? But are you also that lighting up?

That's what appears to me.

Yeah, so it's, it's, it's, it's on both ends is the lighting up. So when you're putting the core, it's lighting up, everything else in 3D is around it and sometimes it grows. I don't know.

Let's try another experiment. Try to do it as simply as you can now. You just perceive this hand. Yeah, don't perceive anything else. Don't bother with anything else for a moment, you see? Now you are perceiving this hand, no? Yeah, independent of what the, what other experience may be happening. Yeah, you see? Now this you that is perceiving this hand, how is that known? How do you know that, that it is you? This is a nice shoulder exercise for me. You see what I mean? That is the question really. So that you that is aware of the perception of this hand or the perception of anything else, no matter where attention may go, that is independent of attention. That knowledge of you knowing yourself is independent of whatever the content of perception may be.

I kind of feel I went to the same place. I think it's still the same thing. I, I am, I don't know, I don't know.

Because what's happened is that you've become spiritually self-conscious, you see? Yeah, in the sense that the mind has found this trump card now. Is it okay? Is that something as innocent as you are just looking at a movie or the hand or you're hearing this voice? Yeah, it is independent of that sensation or any of that thing, you see? That it is so natural for us to be aware, just so natural for us to be aware. But what has happened is that, um, the mind has found this like trump card to play every time. Every time it tries to make it simpler than that, it is saying, 'But, but actually attention is going back to that,' you see? No, you're just looking at the hand, you see? If you're looking at that, then you're no longer looking at the hand.

Yeah, that happens here, isn't it? So while you're looking at the hand, who is that you that is looking at the hand?

It's that. Okay, it's that. That's what I think.

Okay, who's looking at that again?

The chest thing is lighting up. I mean attention, if I keep asking your question, who's witnessing that, witnessing this, witnessing this, it kind of, it's caught there on that.

Okay, what do you have to do with it? Just ask the question, no? In the sense that there is a perception of hand, there is perception of tingling, you see? Where do you come in the picture?

The tingling.

It's okay, it happens. It's completely fine. Don't worry, don't worry. So when there is no tingling, you are still there, no?

Yeah.

Is it? How come? Are you in Bangalore? Yeah? Okay, so what you should do is, uh, maybe next week you come over.

Oh yeah, yeah. I've put my name up on the sheet. Oh good, Tuesday I'm coming.

Yeah, we'll do this then. We'll sort this out. We'll sort this out of it. Okay, okay. So nice to talk to you, Father. So long, thank you, Mother. Thank you. We'll meet you, yes. See you soon.

Yeah, one says, and I want to read this as an important point. This one says, 'No I is perceiving the hand, there is just perceiving of the hand.' This is an important point, you see? Now it is true that the traditional notion of I is not there to perceive the hand. Whatever we have thought ourselves to be, whatever we are attached to, this idea of I is not perceiving the hand, you see? It is just a perceiving. It is just an, to be even more technical about it, it is just an awareness of even this perception, you see? But actually there is no distinction in reality between I and this awareness. It is true what you say, that everything that you have attached to the I is not there that is aware of the perception, you see? And yet it is I that is the awareness, you see? This is the I that Bhagwan was talking about when he said, 'I removes the I and remains I,' you see? So I, the true Self, it removes the false I, which is all our ideas about I, whatever we've taken I to be, you see? It is gone, you see? But this awareness, you see, is you. That is why you are able to confirm that, you see, there is perception. Otherwise what would it have to do with you? Awareness is aware of perception, you are not there, no? So how would you know this is happening? What is your role in this? You are not there as an objective entity or a bundle of concepts or a set of perceptions. You are that very awareness itself and you don't have to believe it, like it is undeniable. You are aware of the perception of this hand, unless you are, you become very, very caught up in spiritual concepts, you see? Isn't it? This you is the awareness itself.

Father, you missed Mada. No, no, I haven't missed. I'm coming to her in a moment. We just spoke the other day as well. Next one says, 'Father, I love your pointing of make no distinctions, like the example with the map with the border lines between countries.' Very good. I actually used to use that. They're just conceptual. Exactly, it is just conceptual, the distinction between countries. I see how...

Unless you are, you become very, very caught up in spiritual concepts, you see? Isn't it? This 'you' is the awareness itself. Father, you missed Mata? No, no, I haven't missed. I'm coming to her in a moment. We just spoke the other day as well. Next one says, 'Father, I love your pointing of make no distinctions, like the example with the map with the border lines between countries.' Very good. I actually used to use that. They're just conceptual. Exactly, it is just conceptual, the distinction between countries. 'I see how the mind is playing like this here at the border lines between objects, appearances, concepts.' Very good. You see, very good. That's a very good representation, actually. Very good metaphor for what happens. You make the distinction between me and you, you see? This set of sensations is me; all other sensations is not me. Who decided that? Just the intellect. And even the intellect was conditioned to make that distinction; it was not organically that way. So you see that, and then you see what happens with maps. You know, there are some countries where you see that politicians have made their boundaries using scale, so there are villages that have been cut in the middle because the lines passed in that way, and people who said, 'No, no, you are different now than me.' So that's just a representation of what the mind does. Okay, then next one said, 'To stay with the I Am is like cracking a secret code. The more I stay with it, the more the numbers of the code begin to fall within their appropriate slots. If you unlock the secret code all the way, we will arrive at the final secret.' Is that even the I Am is not? Very good. Okay, Mata, we can wait for a bit more. I just want to hear from the ones I haven't heard from for a bit. Edward can come; I haven't heard from him for a long time.

Hi, hello. Hi, hello. Hi. I just found out not be stuck in Bangalore. Well, it's all right. So there was this a bunch of very sweet Lithuanian children who came to Bangalore to visit me for a bit, but they got caught in the coronavirus thing and they were living in this building quite—how many months was it? Two months before the night. Yeah. Okay, my dear, how are you doing? What's happening?

Well, actually, to be honest, I'm feeling really good. I don't know, since I came back, I mean, I was feeling really good, but then it went like it always comes back again. But I somehow was able to gather myself and just spend some time to contemplate, let's say, and everything, yeah, everything is going smoothly actually. I don't know, yeah, I feel really good. Um, just one thing to clarify, maybe, I don't know if it's going to clear for anything, but um, so I'm thinking when when I do like self-inquiry, I don't know, um, if it happens to you, because nowadays I feel like just to sit in silence and it feels like, um, I don't know if that's if um, I want to clarify if that is something I don't go any further, I should go any somewhere further? Or because I come to this always place of just, you know, no suffering, everything is really good no matter what is happening outside, like if I have money or I don't have. Um, just coming to this point and it seems like, and to come to that point I have to come to where I can observe the person, you know? And um, it becomes the personality of Advaita becomes very like like a layer, you know, which is not me. And and I it doesn't seem to go any further. Like sometimes I feel like this is it, it's just about being comfortable like this in life to see that you cannot suffer, like whatever is being thrown at me. I just, you know, every time I look, or sometimes I don't even have to look, but it's just naturally, you know, being seen, but the the suffering is not there, you know? And it comes momentarily, but sometimes they are sweet as well just to give me an energy to look again deeply and confirm it again, you know? So I don't know. And yeah, sometimes because like this morning I was the question arose again, 'Who am I?' And um, at some point it becomes like, okay, so even this question is observed, and uh, so who is observing this this question? And there's nothing found. Maybe there is some sort of traveling through sensations going on to to light or whatever, um, subtle things, but it's never, it's just always being observed, all of those subtle even things, you know? But uh, and and basically, you know, and maybe some kind of checker or something, I don't know, but feels like everything is so complete, you know? Like yeah, go forward, but then always there is also subtle maybe a voice but check is maybe there is something maybe you just neglecting or, you know, not going any further, you know? Maybe there is something more to do, you know? So I don't know.

Okay, so how it sounds to me is that you're just sitting in silence is what it sounds to me like. When I talk about just remaining open and empty, allowing everything to just pass through and nothing really makes you suffer because you're not grasping at anything, you're not trying to make meaning, so that is more than enough. It is more than enough. And whatever needs to reveal itself, if something more needs to reveal itself, then organically it reveals itself, you see? So the remaining in this openness and emptiness is actually very, very beautiful, very, very beautiful. More than enough, more than okay.

Yeah, and just wanted to be in your presence also, and that desire is always great. It's just so much joy. Thank you.

Thank you. It is very sweet. It was very sweet to be with you anytime, every time that you're here. And every time that I see you, there's a lot of fondness that comes here, there's a lot of affection that comes here. So, um, yeah, it's very good because many times what happens with the inquiry also is that after a few times of asking, 'Who am I? Who is witnessing these thoughts?' you see, 'Who is being silent?'—sometimes you can ask like that, no?—and it just leaves us in this open and empty, this quote-unquote space. And in that, you don't have to rush to say what I am is apparent in that, but it will become clearer and clearer, the clearer that what you are actually is apparent in that. But you have to allow them to—let me not put any sort of stress in the system with saying things like that, you see? Because the mind might say, 'But Ananta said what you are is apparent to you in that, but it isn't apparent to me. What is he saying?' you see? So just forget it, it's okay.

Yeah, yeah, it's becoming a great mystery, like just yeah, the mystery for the mind obviously. Yeah, just nothing to grasp on, like nothing. I cannot even say to anyone, 'I know I'm right and you're wrong.' Something like it feels very feels very stressful, you know, to say.

More and more what you could do for fun is—did I show you this when you were here? There's one favorite scene of mine from a movie called 'A Serious Man'. A Serious Man, yeah, A Serious Man. And you can go to YouTube, look for 'A Serious Man: Accept the Mystery', you see? And it's a beautiful scene. I like that very much. It's about this: to just become open and accept that we cannot understand or grasp intellectually. Thank you. Thank you.

India, I think it was worth waiting. Uh-huh, that's fine. Now we'll find out he was waiting for me. I don't know, in the sense that my mind quieted a lot and it was struggling to keep the question.

Yeah, that's what happens. Yeah, thank you for that. I want also to share besides this question, I want to share an experience. I was contemplating the other day and I think I kind of fell asleep, but in that sleep I was aware of breathing and the snoring and the environment outside, and then my mind started to question, 'Who am I? Is that me?' Not bad. And I kind of—that's so what happens is that usually what we do is we define it in categories, no? Like deep sleep, which is the absence of all phenomena including the very primal vibration of beingness itself, you see? The I Am-ness itself. Then we call it waking state or dream state when the I Am-ness is there. Then we call some transcendental states, you see, of samadhi, where there could be various variations of—sometimes you just experience the breath but you don't experience the world or the universe; sometimes you just experience I Am itself and you don't experience the world or the universe. So all of these in Indian spirituality have been given various names of different types of samadhi and things. What you had inadvertently is that it was a semi-sleep state where it was almost sleep but there was a sliver of beingness there which allowed you to experience the sensations of the snoring and the body, you see? So that was a state which we would not typically call deep sleep state because in deep sleep there is no sensation or perception at all. But then the question came, 'Who am I?' or 'Who is witnessing all of this?' And then it became like what happened? The I Am became bigger and the world manifestation became stronger, more apparent, or what happened? How did it go away?

I think that question itself put me into mind.

Yes, yeah. You have to take it up with Bhagavan, you know? That complaint you have to give to Bhagavan. Yeah, no, I'm just kidding. You don't have to worry so much. Sometimes it happens that sometimes any kind of question activates our intellect and it seems like rather than bringing us deeper within, it seems to make it more, you know, mindy. It does happen sometimes, yes.

But there was one in one of Guruji's latest this week, he said something very nice or he put this awareness very nicely and he said all these discussions we are having in the satsang should actually bring us to the emptiness or should end into the emptiness. And that made me realize that this is what's happening in satsang, that our mind goes empty and even sometimes when we do self-inquiry, even if I can't really pinpoint who am I, yeah, things go quiet not because I'm—that's the funny thing is because I'm not doing anything to get that, that it happens.

Yeah, yeah. Well, what happens sometimes is that sometimes when we make a conclusion like that, then many times the inquiry itself gets forgotten and then we start sort of chasing an experience of peace or something like this, you see? So just become empty of even what the inquiry is supposed to do. Okay? I have no preconceived notions about anything at all. That is empty now. Because if you start with an idea that the inquiry is meant to make me empty, then that itself will get in the way of your emptiness too much. Sometimes I say that when I say to you, 'Open and empty, remain open and empty,' what you are doing is you are filling your cup with 'open and empty.' You're not actually making it open and empty. So it has to be empty beyond any notion of empty, you see? I mean, it is impossible for your mind, but this consciousness that is having a monologue with itself is in resonance with this. It's fine, you see? Let your mind struggle with it for a bit. It's fine. What I'm saying is very simple, like Guruji says, no? That the best way to make somebody unnatural is to tell them to be natural, you see? Just be natural. Then you lose the naturalness already, no? Because you're trying to be natural. It's like the story of the insect; you become self-conscious about being, just being, and then the just being is no longer just being. In the same way, when we try to remain empty or become empty, then we get so full of trying to be empty that we are no longer empty. So it has to be more instant, immediate. Just empty. Empty. Not thinking about being empty, just empty. Not trying to be empty, just empty. That's it.

Guruji says to take advantage of the life situations when they come.

Yes, yes, of course. And there is one particular aspect: advantage of the life situation when they come if you are not empty. If you're already empty, then don't try to take advantage of anything.

I'm not. There is a situation which I'm not empty.

Ah, then take advantage of it.

When my child is sick, yeah, I can if I pray to God I or I try to put the child in that God's feet is going to be for her well-being and healthy. I I can't, I'm just into that situation.

Take advantage of the life situations when they come. Yes, yes, of course. And there is one particular aspect: take advantage of the life situation when they come if you are not empty. If you're already empty, then don't try to take advantage of anything.

I'm not... there is a situation in which I'm not empty.

Ah, then take advantage of it.

When my child is sick, yeah, I can... if I pray to God, I try to put the child at that God's feet. It is going to be for her well-being and health. I can't... I'm just into that situation. I'm going to do anything in the world to fix it. I'm not going to accept...

I used to say often earlier that you have the license as a parent to continue to have the mother identity, you see. Don't fight against the mother identity. I don't want to come into opposition with the mother identity because it's a very, very primal identity. It's a very primal identity. Even a father identity is very primal. Like even a small, you know, goat will fight with an elephant to save their calf. So, don't worry. You take care of the rest of the identity; let me take care of the mother. It's a tough one. You chose the toughest, probably.

Yeah, I know. That's why I said give it to me; I have better muscles. Thank you. It's like, I don't know where I'm going to live with the two children in three weeks' time, but yeah, I'm at the point that look, I know God is going to... yeah, I'm comfortable. But if Anna, the child with disability who's non-verbal, if she's sick, she's crying, she's throwing anger at me, I... and I'm not... I'm not even a decent person sometimes. Like, yeah, it's just...

Okay. Parents are forgiven all this. It's completely fine. It's completely fine. Speaking as a parent of two kids, I tell you, I'm not decent sometimes. It's okay. And I can imagine that in your case, it must be many times harder. Anyway, I understand. Let that aspect of your existence play out as it is playing out. Don't worry about it. Don't try to become too spiritual about that. I know it'll sound like what I'm saying is the opposite of satsang, but actually what happens is that when you get in opposition with these very, very strong forces in our realm of existence, then things can get very complicated, you see. So just go easy on yourself. Forgive yourself as much as you can. Forgive your children as much as you can. It's fine. It's fine. It'll be fine. And I've had this conversation over the years with many mothers, you see, in various situations of parenting, even with children with disabilities. And you'll see how grace will take over every aspect of your life. It's fine. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, very good. One says, "Dear, when I feel openness, do I have to force to ask the question 'Who is aware of it?' or can I just do nothing?" Ah, we answered this, no? We answered this with Edward. Yes, just relax. It's fine. Next one says, "Father, I sometimes hear of Bhagwan saying that nothing has ever happened. Is he saying this from the perspective of awareness or consciousness?" We can say awareness. You can say awareness. Then next one says, "I feel you in my heart and in my ears. I feel such love for you. I love your love. Thank you last week for reminding me that I have been given the answer over and over and over. Now is the time to be empty and surrender." Very good. Very good. Thank you.

Next one says, "Father, when I exposed an energy which I was experiencing, I thought I won't experience it again, yet I experience it. But reactionary is not loud; it is also momentary. Today I caught its voice. It has its own vibration and voice, and it is realized immediately. All these years I took it as me. As you said, everything is a child of consciousness and everything can come and go. More than it's going, I'm so happy to see I grew as this year. Nightmare of years turned into nothing but got me at Guruji's feet and your embrace. After hearing Maria today, I feel to share." Very good. Just openness, acceptance. It's good.

Still some question is there. Beatrice, let's hear. Namaste. You're good?

Yes. I'm wondering what question has survived the last two hours. Let's hear. Um, I don't really know. I just... identification happening with the body and their thoughts. It's like still happening. I don't know if it matters. I feel what... I don't know if it matters.

My job is very simple, you see. My job is very simple. It is to make you empty now. And you are empty now, so my job is done. What happens to past Beatrice and future Beatrice is past Ananta and future Ananta's problem. That makes it so simple because I cannot make the past Beatrice empty or the future Beatrice empty, you see. I cannot even make present Beatrice empty because in the present, there is no Beatrice in the present.

Yes. It feels like something you want to be sure that is empty and often, all the time, like searching.

But that notion of time itself keeps us from being empty, you know. So the best gift you can give to yourself is not to convince yourself that you can always be empty. The best gift you can give yourself is to be empty now, you see. And what happens is the mind plays with us. It says, "But I am in satsang now. What happens after satsang?" All of that. But it doesn't matter. The best gift at any moment in time is to be empty now. Then all the past narrative and the story structure, all the memories—we can't even rely on them, no? We don't know if they are true or if they are false. We can just let go of all of that.

Yes. This is something, this letting go, letting go of all of these, something that is happening all the time.

Yeah, yeah. So just click, click, click. Every moment, click, click, finish. Thank you. Thank you.

One says, "Please Ananta Ji, I need your blessing." May my Father's grace take care of everything that afflicts you and bring you to your highest recognition of yourself, and may you abide in their ever-ending peace and joy that is my Father's presence. All my blessings are with you. Okay, last question for the day is Prahash. Have a good one. No, Prahash. Can you see me? Yes, I do. You're good?

I don't know. Okay. I thought of some... everyone, everyone on the call. It's getting a little frustrating because, uh, I don't know why. Maybe it's a phase. I'm trying whatever pointings, you know, is coming my way, but at some point of time, the energy gets sucked out somehow, somewhere, and I just say okay.

Can you see when you say that you're trying whatever pointing is coming your way, is it like whatever you're hearing, you're just trying that? I would actually say that take one and dig deep with that one, you see. Take one that resonates deeply with you in your heart and just dig deeply with that one. Hear the rest of it lightly, lightly. If it is doing some work organically, it can do that. But if you're using like a pointing to inquire or to come to this self-discovery, then don't change it too often, you see. Because that can become very frustrating. Just take one point. If it is "What do I find without my mind?" or... it's like Hinduism, no? All of us are very democratic. If the naughty aspect of the Lord appeals to you, then Krishna is there for you. If righteousness appeals to you, then Ram is there for you. If the divine feminine nature of creation appeals to you, then Devi is out there for you. So in the same way, we have so many, we have a full buffet of pointings. You pick one. I usually get confused when there's a lot of things in the menu.

So yeah, can you give me one? What have you practiced the most?

The most?

Listening to Invitation.

Yes, yes. That is good enough. It just puts me to sleep every single time. Works perfectly well. 100%. So when you wake up from sleep, then do it again. Okay? I try because you can't always go to sleep. It is good enough. It is more than enough. It's more than enough. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Very good. One says, "Father, I am so grateful that you have taken the great problems from these mothers who are asking for your help. Such a loving grace that flows continuously from you. I love you so much." Thank you, beloved, for your being. Blessings to you, beloved, and to your family. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. It's just if I can be of service to my Father in any way, I'm happy to be. Okay, it feels like this one is out now of energy. Rather is wearing the mask, or you want to sing? You can play something. Whatever. What do you want to play? Mostly I play from this, which you only maintain. There's one number one, I have both are called bhajans. One is yours. Whatever. Ah, is that coming from this mic? The sound of the fan. Was the sound really bad today or was it okay? Was it good? It was good. It was nice at the end. It was okay. The day Nithya is happy with the sound that we have, I will retire from satsang. I am saying it in a nice way. Excellent. Ah, okay, good.

It's very good. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satgurus, I love you all so, so, so much. I love you. Love you. Thank you.