You Are the Most Pristine No-Thing, Where All Knowledge Emerges From - 12th November 2021

So this is the example that Bhagwan was talking about when he said the thief dressed up as the policeman trying to catch the thief. The ego itself trying to kill the ego, like, "I just have to not be egoistic." Who's that? It's not God saying, "I just have to not be egoistic." So all the pointing in satsang are meant to have a dissolutive effect on this one, but they can have an actually constructive effect on this one, you see. So that is something that you have to watch. That's why I wanted to start with this, okay? I want to start with this, especially since we're starting after a break, that as you're coming in now, notice that you're not going to apply it to this limited entity sort of perspective. Now, what that leaves them to apply to is a good contribution to explore together.

So this is it, and this is where a lot of the spiritual aspirants will just get stuck because they feel like they spend 20 years on it, 30 years on it, maybe the whole life on it. And sometimes they feel like, "Okay, I can manage my life now because I have my spirituality," and another time they'll feel like, "Whatever I actually learned, what is my actual impact?" So to get away from all of this, which is still part of the guy who's playing spiritual whack-a-mole, you know, trying to whack the ego every time it shows up, that itself is the ego. And you can't kill the ego in a way. That's what satsang is: to blow up that one, to deconstruct that one. But it's not something substantive that can be blown up in the first place. It's just a set of ideas or just like a position.

So like the words of satsang are trying to meet you like that, and you catch it like that. It's trying to dodge you, and the words of satsang are trying to dodge the spiritual aspirant, but something I am good at this time, okay? So the master, in a way, not figuring out, figuring out, but just intuitively has to be guided in the sense of how we can dodge your spiritual conditioning. Because those who are attracted to a particular type of conditioning will put everything that is being said in that box. "Oh yeah, that's what he's saying, you know that." And then for somebody, the opposite spiritual conditioning can take that also in the same box. That's why we have a shelf full here of maybe 100 different commentaries on the Bhagavad Gita itself, and if you take two very different traditions, they could have used the same words of the Lord and made it completely attuned to their tradition.

So whatever the conditioning of that spiritual aspirant or seeker is for you, you will take these words to mean something for that one, you see. And then that will be the constructive job. So you'll know and know, you'll know more and more, okay? Whereas I'm trying to tell you that that one is fake, it doesn't know anything, just leave it, you see. It's not going to get you anywhere. And then on hearing stuff like this, then some resistance can come because then you feel like, "But I'm so confused now, what is he even saying?" Whereas what I've said is very direct, you know, but the mind can say it's too abstract, it's too confusing, you know. Yeah, so whose resistance is that? Like, what is the trouble?

So I went on this holiday, which I needed a holiday from after I came back. So on this holiday, I met a very sweet man who I presented my book to. They won't come to satsang, they're a different part of our life. So I'd given him this book and he said, "You know, Ananta, I'm very good with hard books. I'm very good with hard books, but this book that you've given to me of your satsang transcripts..." I gave Consciousness Speaking. "...of Consciousness is the hardest book that I have ever read and I just can't do it," you know, and very, very sweetly and humbly using all of that. So it was explained to him that the attempt, if you're going to attempt—because he said, "I read a few things, then you ask some questions and all that understanding is lost. When I read something else, then you are something else and I'm wondering what I'm understanding, what am I getting in all of this," you see.

And I completely resonated with his frustration because I have had that experience with reading, like reading Maharaj especially. And so I just told him that if the attempt was not constructive, then what would you feel about it? You see, the attempt was not to construct but actually to locate something that may be there and just would dissolve it if at all possible. Then what would your perspective be? "Okay, let me see it in that light" or something, I don't remember exactly what he said. So the frustration or confusion in satsang is also about the same thing where we can be frustrated only when you're trying to grasp something. If you're not grasping, how will you get frustrated? Okay, you're trying to grasp on the space and you've been doing it for three hours, like, "Can you look at your hand? I have not got anything at all."

Obviously, this mind will throw this idea that this is pointless, it's frustrating, whatever, what am I even doing here? But if the attempt was not that, and the attempt is to sit with as much attention as we feel like we have with us and allow the words to work by themselves, that is the attempt when you come to satsang. And if this can become your way in life, and especially starting in satsang itself, then I tell you nothing can make you really suffer. This can become your way starting with satsang, but in life where you're not really grasping at straws, then nothing can frustrate you or make you suffer. So our grasping is based on a template that we have based on what we think we should be or life should be. Otherwise, what would you go for?

So your coming to satsang could be also based on a template saying, "I have to become more spiritual" or "I have to become free" or "I have to understand" or whatever the template may be. But without that, are you not free? Sometimes the seeker seeking is the only thing which is left in the identity. That's why maybe Papaji said, "Drop the search." But that also can be taken by the same guy, no? Whack-a-mole. "Ah, I have to drop the search and then I'll actually be free." But you are that guy. So this is the trick, isn't it? Are you all with me? So this is the trick. This is like the small speck of dust, but actually it can cloud the whole vision just quickly. We can let that individual perspective be taken as valid and that can seem like it is actually determining what our reality is.

So if you have questions like, "How is my spirituality helping me?" that is a very good diagnostic tool. "How much progress have I made?" That is a very good diagnostic tool. The determination that "I am almost there"—who is all of this for? Who is all of this pointing to? All of these conceptual conclusions that we may take to be reality, who are they for? So if you can contemplate this in spite of your mind's resistance—and I know that with these kind of things the mind can really resist because this is attacking the root of its whole game. So the mind is happier if it's allowed to get belief in the persona of being a spiritual seeker. But if that starts getting attacked, "I'm missing two hours of work or have braved such cold weather and come here, what did I get? What did I actually get?"

So not trying to grasp, and yet being attentive. Can we try that as an experiment? Otherwise, many times we feel like our attention itself is grasping at things, but it's really not. And I want you to experiment with that and see whether it is attention which is grasping at things. It is not attention. Attention is pure perception. Attention, you have no trouble with it. But then trying to make the fairytale in your head, that is what is grasping. That is what is trying to find a template with which to put this unfathomable thing, quote-unquote "thing," is the attempt at grasping, okay? Do you feel like we are only making progress if, "Yes, I understood this tutorial, I am not to grasp"? But who's holding on to that instruction document?

So not to grasp, not to construct, not to take yourself seriously. Real, not real, but real spiritual seekers, some of them... so if you find yourself—this is not to poke fun at anybody—I'm just saying that if you find yourself getting very... just like relax. Because what are we really talking about? We're talking about that which is the natural state of all beings, you see. We can't even say beings. This is a natural state. Children are like sages. It's just that they haven't gone through the full rollercoaster yet, so we don't treat them like sages. But what's the big deal? So...

Real spiritual seekers, some of them—so if you find yourself, this is not to poke fun at anybody, I'm just saying that if you find yourself getting very, you know, yesterday, just like relax. Because what are we really talking about? We're talking about that which is the natural state of all beings. You see, we can't even say beings. This is natural. Children are like sages; it's just that they haven't gone through the full roller coaster yet, so we don't treat them like sages. But what's the big deal? So don't get into these kind of places which are very serious and accomplished and a lot of knowledge, you know, these kind of things, because they just take you away from your originality, from your innocence. And the world used to devalue this innocence and say, 'Without the mind, you are nothing,' isn't it? And it is right, but you are the most pristine no-thing where all knowledge emerges from.

So what is knowledge? A collection of, like, conceptual knowledge is a collection of thoughts. And where do thoughts emerge from? If that source stops applying these constructs, then this would be then—but you would still be there. If your thoughts stop now, what would be taken away from you? Of course, thoughts will be coming and saying, 'I wish you could stop. Why doesn't it stop? When will it stop?' It's all still thoughts. But would the witnessing go away? I realize I am startling many things in this.

What do you need to know now? What do you need to know? Let's say, let's use the provisional word 'to be here now.' 'Be here' is the provisional phrase we can use. So provisionally, what do you need to just be here now? Nothing. No, nothing. All of you online also confirming that? Nothing. So yeah, exactly. So nothing. Now, this being is whose? Whose is it? If it is limited, usually you find this limitation—the being itself finds its boundary. Not even spatial, just explore the question. Don't try to understand it too much. If you feel like what is naturally here is an individual meaning, then that individual must be contained separate from everything else. See if you can find that separation, that boundary.

And if some of you are new here and the mind is proposing very strongly that the body sensations actually feel like a boundary of sorts, see that the body sensations are like perceptions within you. But you are not contained on just one side of the body sensations; you are actually containing all of that, as you are containing every perception that you are observing. But you are also containing that which is aware—not containing in the traditional way of the world, but you are that which is aware of all of this, just so naturally. And it doesn't matter whether this is your first minute in satsang or this is your thousandth lifetime coming to satsang in one way or the other. It doesn't matter because that contemplation, if you look openly, you will come to the same discovery: that there is no limitation to your being. There is no limitation to your vision.

Now look at your fairy tales and see in how many of those there is no limitation to your being. In your stories, narratives, you are a construct. You're a construct on some adventure or the other. So let those fairy tales go, because that one whose narrative that is, is not to be found. Or if you actually find a person when you're looking, then you expose that. Expose that; say, 'Ah, this is the person.' But you will find only a bundle of sensation there, and a bundle of sensation can never be you. Sensations just come and go. With me or not?

Now, what story will you take to be true about yourself now? If you take a story to be true about yourself, type it in the chat. Type it in the channel. And you have to identify the protagonist, the central character of that story. Yeah, so that vigilant one is the identification. So that one is made up of this narrative that 'I have to constantly be on the lookout.' So that is the vacuum, all right? That is basically the vacuum over there which is saying, 'Okay, how do I deal with lines?' So basically, it's a very fearful position. And in a moment, I will explain to you what my use of the word vigilance implies, because even great masters like Papaji have said 'vigilance to the mind until the dying breath,' but he did not mean a fearful position where you're just like, 'Where's the ego coming?'

So I'm very glad you can spot that, because that is the use of spiritual instruction: to try and help the non-existent one. That is the idea, you see. Now, the reverse side, you could also say, 'Ah, the same vacuum old guy,' you could say, 'Okay, now what is saying that even vigilance, forget it, I am just going to be free, not even vigilant,' you know? But the smell of the same guy can be there, or girl can be there. So this one can use either side of the position and try to make a way of life out of that, a way of being out of that, is it? So this is a very good tool also. If you find that you're relying on a way of being, then you're not being. If you have to rely on a way to be, then you're not being, you see? Because being fully has its way. You don't need to supply it a further way, you see.

The ways of being are too mysterious for the mind to find. But that doesn't mean that it's just like some dumb thing there which then we have to say, 'Oh, being, welcome, welcome here. I'll tell you which way to be.' That is just pure stupidity to me, to have a conversation from mind to God in that way. But that's fundamentally what we're doing, isn't it? All of the mind's propositions are for what? To provide a way of being. 'This is right, this is wrong. You should do like this, not look like that. You should do like this, you should not do like that. The world should do like this, the world should not be like that. God should do...' We don't leave anything out of that.

So what if we made the supreme intelligence the little guy here? If it can determine what the world should be like, what my friend should be like, what my family should be like, what my Guru should be like, what my disciples should be like—all of these. And then as part of the same way of being, 'I have to be vigilant, I have to be vigilant,' or now after hearing this, 'I don't have to be vigilant.' Okay, so either way can grab you. Now, if you're feeling there's no way out, then you're just listening with the intellect, you see? Because it is only the intellect which has these opposites. If I'm saying neither this way nor that way and you feel like, 'Well, then I'm lost,' then that is not your being's representation; it is still your intellect's representation.

So good, we are really making very good headway today, you see. So now, what did the sages mean when they said vigilance? They meant—like sometimes we can get into some sort of spiritual denial, isn't it? Something is happening, we are suffering from it, that belief is actually there, but we are trying to counteract it with the spiritual belief. So it's like the thought is being believed, but 'don't believe your next thought' is also there, and we create this internal sort of churning which we are not able to accept. So vigilance means something is poking; we don't wait for it to fester into a big thing, and we just know something is still poking. What is the misidentification or the wrong belief which is getting picked up here? Or who is suffering from this poke? And not to just hide it away under some spiritual knowledge and spiritual concept, just to shine your light on it, to be open about it and say, 'Ah, it's still here. Something is believing that this can happen to me. Who is suffering from this happening?' And I'm using generic terms, but you can of course use very specifically the inquiry based on what is poking you. So that is what vigilance is: not to just brush it under the carpet and then, like, in a few days there's a baby monster there or something else. Where did you come from? Otherwise, yeah.

So actually it's simpler. Let me try and present a simpler perspective. Open and empty versus not open and empty. Now, that 'not open and empty,' whatever that may be, is worthless. I mean, we can leave that, isn't it? So otherwise what can happen is this: 'Not open and empty, open and empty... is this like, am I being open enough, empty enough of that?' But in your heart, you know how open and empty you are, you see? And when you're just posing. So if you try to get into the intricacies of the 'not open and empty' posing as if 'open and empty,' then that can be very, yeah, so then that can be very, very, very attractive in a way because you feel like you're making some headway by clearing the stuff out and, you know, doing some of that. But actually, it is just when I'm talking about the inquiry and spirituality and open and empty, which is talking about coming to the rawness of your pure being, which has all the intelligence in the universe inherent in itself rather than needing some conceptual understanding to define the parameters of the way to be. It seems like you're not flowing. So that's why maybe the good tip is to just notice that: are you relying on a way to be? And that can provide some sort of what the world calls self-help, but it's not really Atma Gyan to the capitalists. And it's okay, in the realm of self-help it's fine. The sound is not very clear. Choosing the right one... how is it for everyone? Mostly I hear a very good video. Okay, okay, we'll continue like this. Okay, some questions are coming. Let's go to Kesha first.

Hello. Hi. I'm really glad that you're speaking about this right now. It's, as fear is going more and more and there's more space, it seems that with the pointings and the insights, it's not the pointings that I'm grasping or trying to grasp, it's the result of them that I am identifying with these days.

So based on what you're saying, that's still—let's say there's a pointing. Let's say the pointing itself is 'don't identify,' no? So the result of that is that you notice that there's just a natural spaciousness or an openness. And when you say that that is what I'm identifying with, you're just speaking colloquially in a sense? Or like, you are—I'm just being humorous about with the results, but I'm sure that's not what you were implying.

Oh, I guess not. But it's not quite like that. But it is just a joy to be in that. I don't know if it's even that I can get, like, let go, you know? Even if that's a—can get in the way or is momentum for identity to rebuild itself from, you know, based on what you're saying, I suppose. I don't know.

So does that leave you the way to be? No? Then you're fine. Then you're fine. Because the pointing is meant to deconstruct whatever is there, you see, and leave you open and empty without the notion of opening. Okay? Yeah, okay. Whatever the words may be in all the so many quotes that are possible to make, but really what is being pointed is the open. But if now 'open and empty' becomes a way to be—'I'm just going to be open and empty'—and more and more codes mean... so it's good to just speak about this because they're deconstructing all ways, including that. And 'is not going to construct a way' is also a way. That's why you meet me without the vacuum old guy, because everything can be made into a way.

So when the masters have said there's no way, they've actually said a very, very important pointer, but reconstructed into some idea that we have. So open and empty—if you're being open and empty, you're not being open. If that becomes a way for you to be, then that is not the way that I'm pointing to. It's so subtle what you're speaking about. Yeah, yeah. Started with that pretext of asking everyone to examine the receiver of what is being spoken. And if the receiver is the spiritual seeker, then the spiritual seeker will just add to what it thinks it knows to try and better its own way of existence. Yeah. But my feeling is there is not a huge audience for this kind of life, and I'm fine with that because most of spirituality in the world is about that guy. And I probably would have been one of those people too, you know, had I not met you and Mooji because...

It started with that pretext of asking everyone to examine the receiver of what is being spoken. And if the receiver is the spiritual seeker, then the spiritual seeker will just add to what it thinks it knows to try and better its own way of existence, yeah. But my feeling is there is not a huge audience for this of late, and I'm fine with that because most of spirituality in the world is about that guy. And I probably would have been one of those people too, you know, had I not met you and Mooji, because there was a sense of specialness before and a feeling that that was okay to do, and there were books to write. But now it's like nothing good has come from that ever, so I'm done with it. This is what I need to hear and I'm so grateful.

And this one is which one? I'm not talking or nothing; we're just talking together. So this one, yes, you need to hear this. Just the joy of hearing it is being identified with; that's a good, good contribution. So I'm not concerned at all about you. I'm just saying that sometimes it can happen like that when we say, 'Okay, I'm just identifying with the result.' It can feel like, 'Okay, my guacamole guy is just now concerned about what states are coming' or something like that. So it's not about any of that also. So don't make an identity—maybe now I'm putting it better—don't make it your way to just identify with the result because that's also... yes, thank you.

Okay, let's go to Priya. Have I met her before? Hello, hello, hi.

Namaskar, Ananta Ji. Namaste. Yeah, this is my first day in the satsang.

Welcome. You're very welcome.

And yeah, I really like to... I am just not happy.

Take your time with me. Don't worry. Just be here with you. Just take your time. Don't worry about rushing.

I'm not happy with anything. Life seems to be like a burden and I feel I'm not sure if I can become happy ever again because the depression is so strong. And yeah, I'm just... I feel weird. I feel lost. And there's a lot of expectations from life.

Yes. Well, from life coming from you or from the rest of the world?

The family, family, friends. Then I have to... have to do something in life, have to become something in life. And social responsibility, you know, as a citizen, responsibility as... yeah, the mind is always... yeah, basically I'm just not happy. And yeah, I don't feel like getting up in the morning. I force myself. And then sometimes I think about dying, if I should... if I should just give up on life. But somewhere I know I don't want to, but I'm living in between. I am neither here... I am just... and I'm just... yeah, I just get up, I eat food. There's no grace in anything.

Okay, thank you. Thank you for sharing, my dear. And I know it's not easy to share in this honesty and openness, so I'm very appreciative of that. Firstly, I want to tell you that I have this rule of anyone who's ever come to satsang, even not come to satsang with me, that anytime your mind is telling you that 'I want to end this life, I want to jump out of my building' or something, just jump into a plane and come to Bangalore and we take care of you, okay? So just make this a reminder for yourself very strongly because there is no guarantee that something will be better, you know, something a little better after you take a step like that. So there's no point. Suppose it's just like a recurring dream and you have to snap out of it within the dream and recognize your true nature, and all these provisional steps don't make any difference.

So we're just going to have a conversation and we have all the time, so don't worry. There's no stress that you have to understand something. We're just having a coffee table conversation, so just as light as possible, as easy as possible. Now you say that 'I'm just not happy,' and the masters have said that to be happy you need nothing; it is to be unhappy that you need something. What they mean is that either like you talked about the burden of expectations or an idea about what you should be or become. So what is the... are you able to identify if there's a main theme to your unhappiness? Is there a main idea which makes you the most unhappy?

There are so many.

What is that? Okay, what are the top three? Let's get the list.

I couldn't complete my education on time and now I'm 33 years old. I'm starting my life from scratch. I have taken admission in nursing school. The environment is really horrible because my age and their age. And so I have no savings, no money. My marriage was a failure and I wasted my seven years, then got divorced. My family, they're not really united. My father, he creates a lot of problem for everyone. And yeah, I don't really have any happy moments to share. I have a lot of negative moments to share. I actually don't have any nice moments to share.

Thank you again for sharing. Thank you for sharing all this with such openness. It is this openness which will help you so much. And I'm with you; I'm with you in the heart. Now, if you were to keep all of these narratives aside for a moment, right here and now, is there something right here and now which is making you unhappy?

Right here and now? No. But my heart is heavy, like I can feel my whole heaviness like my right now.

Now, instead of labeling that a problem, instead of labeling that a problem, just allow whatever heaviness is there to just be there and tell me whether inherently that is the cause of suffering. Are you able to meet the question?

I don't understand.

So what I meant is whatever may be showing up in the moment, allow it to be exactly the way it is, you see? And I'm not prescribing a way of life or anything, just for the moment right now, just allow it to be the way it is. So if there's heaviness, allow it to be heavy. If the body is feeling tired, allow it to be heavy. If tears are coming, allow them to come. If laughter is coming, allow it to come. Whatever it is, without judging yourself or what it implies, just allow it to come and tell me if just naturally and organically that means that you are unhappy. Your smile is telling me something already.

I understand what you mean.

Understanding out of it is going to lead to the 'but' which I know is coming. So don't understand, just obviously I'm saying just be like that. And when it becomes too much that you have to say the 'but' and believe the 'but' more importantly, then you can expose it. But till then, just chill. Let's see what happens. At least now you cannot say I've not had a moment of happiness because for a few moments you are having it, and it's on record now. So that narrative can be blown up a little bit.

But what I'm really saying is that this is the beauty of life, that there's some strong narratives which you have, and I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying that actually, whatever the narrative may be, what is here now in the glory of your being is the presence of consciousness itself, you see? And the natural state of consciousness is happiness unless it has a notion to make it unhappy, unless it buys into a notion which makes it unhappy. Now, you may feel like, 'But life cannot continue from this, there's no way to live,' you see? But actually, this is the best way to live.

But there are so many thoughts coming.

Yeah, let them come. Like I said, allow everything to come and go, you see? Just like a conveyor belt with bags, allow your thoughts to come and go. Don't take anything to be your bag. So we're not trying to stop the thoughts. The mind doesn't have to become quiet. Everything—body can be how it likes, mind can be how it likes, emotion can be how it likes, the world can be how it likes. Just for a few moments, don't have any idea of 'should be' or 'should not be'.

Okay. It's really difficult. My thoughts, they are troubling me so much.

Good, very good. But you're doing very well. So the thought which is troubling you the most, is it okay to expose that?

It's a general... yeah, it's fine. It's just a general insecurity.

What is the message? What is the thought actually? When you're observing the thought, what is the message that it is saying?

It's like I want immediate, immediate solving the problem, immediate resolution.

So, but actually that thought is proposing time. Actually, you have... in that moment where you were empty for a moment, it was immediate. So it is the thought which is proposing time, that actually what I'm talking about is immediate resolution, more immediate than anything the mind can fathom. Actually, before you can hear the sound of the click, you are free, you see? If you don't put yourself back in time, it can't be more immediate than that. But the 'I' that wanted that cannot meet this, you see?

So I don't know if you're there right from the beginning of satsang, but the 'I' that wants is the ego. The 'I' that you are is beyond all that. So when you leave time for a moment, you come to a recognition of yourself as that. But the pretend character that you played cannot really meet that. So it says, 'But I'm not understanding' or 'What did I get out of this? How will this help me in the rest of my life?' You see, it'll have all of those narratives. But we have nothing to do with that which I'm pointing to, which then, as you will see and you are seeing, then doesn't need any of that conclusion or resolution because it's simply a misunderstanding about who you are.

How will this help me while I'm studying or what?

So I often use this... I'm sorry, sorry. So what I was saying is, I often, because I've heard this question for like ten years now that I have been sharing satsang, I have made a metaphor for this. But it's not meant to belittle your life situation in any way, but see if you can meet it with some innocence. Now, suppose some being had some problems, you see? And I took that being to be a rabbit and I said, 'I'm going to find the way for you to get some carrots.' You will say, 'No, no, but I'm not a rabbit, I'm a giraffe. So how does this carrot help a giraffe? I'm so big, I need something more substantial,' you see?

So we need to find out what you are first before some solutions can be presented to you, you see? Otherwise, the 'me' that we take ourselves to be is so, so ambiguous and full of so many narratives, it becomes very difficult to tackle and to say, 'Okay, what is the problem and therefore what is the solution?' You see? So would you not agree that before we can present solutions, it is important to first identify who the sufferer is? Is it a rabbit or a giraffe? You see? Because if we start with a strong belief that 'I am this Priya only, I am this body only, this is my life only,' you see, then for that one which we can't really find, it's impossible to propose a solution and nobody in the world can do it, you see? Because that one is mythical. So the only solution to the mythical is to come to truth.

But for that there needs to be openness, which of course I'm sensing, but in a way I want you to be able to commit to that. It's very boring sometimes. Suffering is enjoyable in a way, yes. I mean consciousness must be enjoying it somewhere. So, like I have a dear friend, she has some health ailments, but she refuses to take the Ayurvedic medicine or whatever the doctors prescribe to her because she says, 'But this tastes so bad.' And on the other hand, she's suffering from so much pain and things like this. So how much seeming boredom—although I feel like I'm quite enjoyable—are you willing to endure to be rid of all the problems which you said you have? You see, sometimes it tastes bitter.

No, I don't want to enjoy depression.

So these are the usual trump cards that the mind plays, and I'm glad you're bringing them out so that we can look over them together. Otherwise, if you're not in this conversation, sometimes the mind is just able to convince you and say, 'Man, this is too boring, I can't do this. You know who else is? I'll go to Google.' So I can play like that, I can. But do you feel like there is something there which...

You have, you see, sometimes it tastes bitter. 'No, I don't want to enjoy depression.' So these are the usual trump cards that the mind plays, and I'm glad you're bringing them out so that we can look over them together. Otherwise, if you're not in this conversation, sometimes the mind is just able to convince you and say, 'My name, this is too boring. I can't do this. You know who else is? I go to Google.' So it can play like that. It can. But do you feel like there is something there which realizes that this identity of Priya—this one that you take yourself to be with all of these narratives—that there's something greater about you than just that?

Honestly, right now, I don't know. At the moment, I don't know.

'I don't know' is not a bad answer at all. In fact, it's my favorite answer, so don't at all worry about that. Now, before coming to satsang today, did you watch some other satsangs? Did you... does self-inquiry appeal to you, or you feel like you're more of a devotional temple person? Just tell me a little bit about the conditioning of this one.

So my family member, Satyam, he introduced me. And also in our family, everybody is into meditation and Osho and many gurus. And so yeah, I am aware, but yeah, I was never really successful in it because I find it very boring sometimes.

What is the... because this is the second time this topic of boring has come. What is the importance of boredom in your life? Like, do you value it a lot? Like life should be entertaining? Or maybe when I say boring, maybe it's, yeah, it's like nothing is happening. 'Why am I not happy? I want happiness right now.' But you practice so many years to suffer, but happiness should come right now. But actually, did you not have a taste of that when you opened and emptied? Just for a moment, there was just a smile, but you were just like, 'What's happening here?' Isn't it? So what happened then? Are you able to see?

Yeah, I don't know. I don't have anything to say.

That's so beautiful actually, and maybe you don't realize the immensity of that. But what happens is, for a moment when we are open and empty, a natural being is just allowed to be. And love, peace, joy, happiness—everything that we want—is actually in service to that being. But when we take on the position of chasing those things—love, peace, joy, happiness—then we are not in our natural being and they seem to be constantly elusive. It's just a simple switch in perspective because what happens is that the highest being in the universe, in fact the light of all of this creation, is your very presence. You see, there is no difference between Atma and Parma. It is the same being. And just allowing that to just be like that without any expectation, judgment, rushing, boredom—none of those interpretations for just a moment. And you saw that in just a moment there was a natural smile on your face, and that is happiness. But if you make happiness into something in time, if you insert, for example, an 'always'—'I should always be like that'—you see, then it is the best way to be rid of that because you take that emotional time to be too real then.

So let's look again right now. Right here and now, anything making you unhappy besides your thoughts? Which I am aware will make you unhappy. You're so disappointed, it calls for happiness?

No, there's nothing. Yeah, there's nothing right now which is making me unhappy.

Yes. Are you anywhere else but right now? I know these questions can sound too spiritual and strange, but I'm simply asking: right now you are here, and right now there is nothing making you unhappy. So that's what we wanted.

Yeah, but this mind, you know, these thoughts and the expectations, the world and everything...

Can we try it slowly? You know, this is your first time in satsang, so what we should do is just say, okay, now in 33 years you said you've tried it that way with expectations and taking the narratives to be true and actually missing, like you said, missing a large part of your life and trying to play relationships well and trying to do that well and that, and none of that has panned out. So are you willing to invest maybe a few days? Just try it my way. Okay? Yeah, 33 years already gone, so I'm just saying a few days. Okay?

So now, till the next time we meet, which is next Friday, just do it like right now. There's nothing making you unhappy. Be happy. Don't worry about 'Where is my life going? Am I doing well? Look at these people how they are.' Some of those moments will come and you suffer those moments; it's fine. But the other moments, don't suffer from those moments. Are you able to hear what I'm saying? So there will be some moments where somebody will push your buttons in school or something like that. So those get pushed, it's okay. Suffer from those, but don't beat yourself up about those moments when those are not happening. Okay?

Just like here and now, we've tried twice. You really looked. The second time you were really looking: 'There must be something making me unhappy right now.' And you saw nothing. And I can guarantee you that every moment is like this, except when you go to your thoughts. The thoughts are the delivery guy for... they're their Zomato and Swiggy for unhappiness, you see. So if you take delivery from them, it is not going to feel like happiness. So as much as possible, just like this till next Friday.

I will try.

Yeah, just remember my click. Okay? Record this, review this. Is it clicking anytime like that? Yes, nothing. So actually, nothing survives this click. Nothing actually survives this click. It could just bring your attention to right now. This brings your attention, and right now there's never a problem. There's nothing to really suffer from, you see. Even if the body is in pain, which you may say is a perceptual experience, or you notice something which you don't feel like is pleasurable or something like that, but actually those perceptions in themselves can never harm us. It needs the layer of our interpretation and our perspective which can cause that suffering or unhappiness.

So the assignment, in a way, for a week is just to not value the notions and the narrative too much.

So when I'm being judged, yes, in college for instance, when I'm looked at in weird ways and they are, you know, horrible ways... yeah, that moment is very strong and I just want to run away.

Yes, yes. So let's presume, let's presume that this conversation is like that. So there's a bundle of perceptions in front of you which is acting a certain way like that, is doing all of that. So now, what is actually happening to you because this guy is dancing like this?

I didn't understand.

Suppose it's somebody who's judging you in college or something, and I'm playing that one right now and I'm going 'bam' like that. It's just a set of perceptions in front of you that you're perceiving. What is it actually hurting when these perceptions are being witnessed in this moment? In that moment, unless you insert a narrative about it or a set of emotions about it, what is actually happening? Some mad person doing something in front of you.

I just feel angry. I feel 'leave me alone,' you know? Just... then I have a logical statement to bring my model up. Then, you know, 'You're the one who is stupid, not me,' you know?

Yeah, and just for this week, don't have a counter-narrative. Even if they find you being strange, like 'What's happened to her?' you know? Just one week, it's okay. They don't seem to be the best friends anyway to have, so what's the worst that can happen? So just for a week, don't try to present your counter-narrative. Don't even believe your compliment. Just stay with my click. This right here, right now. Some things are happening in the what I call the dance of perceptions, you see, but it's not really hurting the witnessing in any way—that which is aware of the perceptions. So just don't go with any story about it. Whether they're wrong or right doesn't matter for a week, okay?

So I just... I did so that we can give it to them properly. So anything is happening, I bring my attention to right now?

Yes, bring your attention to right now. That is more than enough. 'Is anything making me unhappy right now?'

Yes, exactly, exactly. But at that moment, that thing is making me unhappy.

Don't presume that. Try it out. Tell me if it happened, and scream at me and say, 'Ananta, you were wrong.' See if something coming in front of you and judging you or something can just naturally make you unhappy without any interpretation or emotions from your own head. See if it can happen that way. So even if anger comes like a natural reaction, or fear comes or something—so if you see a tiger or a snake, then naturally some fear can come, you see—but don't judge yourself based on that also. Just notice that in the acceptance of that emotion, is there any suffering or is there any unhappiness as you've been calling it? Did that become too much? We can save that for next time if you want.

Yeah, but I mean, at that moment anger will come, I will feel like crying, I will feel like all the emotions will come at the same time.

Let them come. Don't apply any 'shoulds' or 'should-nots.' Don't say, 'They should not come, they should not be here, I have to be in the moment.' That's not the idea. When the emotion is coming, just accept it fully in the moment. Accept everything. Anger is coming? Accept it fully in the moment. Just pure acceptance, pure openness. Okay? Let's try this one.

Okay, I will try this.

Very good. I hope to see you next Friday. Thank you so much. And I want to tell all of you that although this may have sounded to you advanced because I began with beginner instruction, that's it. That's all I'm saying. In all the words, in all different ways, that's all I'm saying. Just meet your perception purely. Don't put your narrative, don't put your 'should' or 'should-not,' all of these stories into it. See what happens. Right now you can see what happened. So sweetly you saw him. Just hear somebody saying, 'I have not felt one moment of happiness.' And just in that moment, if you just leave being alone, just let yourself be, because God's presence is here. Your presence is... whose is this? Your family member Satyam? The same one? Are you on two devices?

Uh-huh. No, you are... see this, my specs, so I can't see very clearly. Hello, hello.

She's my brother's daughter, and it's also a big, big, big mirror for me to see her in this way. That triggered many things within me as well when she was in tears, so I started also.

Yes, of course. With you as the instrument, grace has got her to satsang and grace will bring some great blessings. Yeah.

You know, because this girl is just... it's a family dynamics, so it's quite strong. She was a kid and I was taking care of her, so I have some memories of that. Some great memories. And my journey became a bit different and went into satsangs. And she was really down, so I just shared with her. I said, 'Come and unburden yourself, whatever.' And she doesn't want this... I'm talking for her, Priya, but she's like, 'Not spiritual.' I said, 'You don't have to be any spiritual, just come and share whatever there is.'

I was an atheist for a large part of my life. I used to say most of my life, but now I can say equally so. This one is 46 now; for 23 years he was an atheist. Almost two years very strongly, including the idea that God is a notion invented by losers because they don't have faith in themselves. And this kind of nonsense is something that I used to strongly believe in. But I never obviously had contemplated what this 'themselves' means. Who is this 'themselves'? And when that question started appearing here in the form of 'What is my purpose? What am I doing here?' and therefore 'Who am I?' because like I was telling her, it is impossible to determine purpose unless you can first determine whose purpose, you see. Now one way to do it is to just go with the notion and say, 'No, no, mine, the one with all the stories, that one.' But who is that? Where is that? You see? So these kind of questions...

Previously, had contemplated what this 'themselves' means. Who is this 'themselves'? So, and when that question started appearing here in the form of 'What is my purpose? What am I doing here?' and therefore 'Who am I?'—because like I was telling her, it is impossible to determine purpose unless you can first determine whose purpose, you see. Now, one way to do it is to just go with the notion and say, 'No, no, mine, mine, the one with all the stories, that one.' But who is that? Where is that, you see? So these kind of questions, they started coming here and then that's what made me spiritual, or whatever you call this one. It is a result of that sort of inquiry that started like this, you see. So yeah, so it touched me so much that she was, you know, she would call me and she was really down. So I said, 'Now you have to just come and don't...' because all these ideas we like to have, like spiritual... we can have, everyone can have so many ideas, but they stop us from... I said, 'Just come and unburden and just share.' It doesn't want you to be in any particular way. Because otherwise, from the beginning of satsang today was not being spiritual, but being anything at all. How spirituality troubles us because in spirituality we have this idea.

Then, you know, it's good that we are meeting like this because what happens is that you may save yourself a lot of trouble. Because spiritual seekers go through this whole game where they feel like they're improving, improving, they're learning a lot and they can manage life and now they know so much, they're gaining some mastery over any of this. And all that facade has to be broken also as part of the so-called spiritual process. So, so you may be bypassing that whole game. Absolutely, it is happening here. She's sitting right here. She was atheist till she started coming to satsang. She was treating somebody who had an ankle injury and she was at Manipal Hospital next door, and that girl who was being treated sort of forced her to come, 'Come see my Master.' And she's skipped that whole phase of going through that entire spiritual learning and knowledge and all of that, and coming to a very sort of open and innocent sort of seeing in the heart which is independent of all that spiritual identity. So we don't have to become any sort of 'Gyaani Baba' to become free. Thank you.

Okay, let's go to EP. I should know her name by now. She's had her hand up for some time. Namaste, my dear. I'm gonna try... sorry. Okay, my dear, say. Don't worry, I'll ask you at the end. The rest of you ask me what it means to know. Yes, what does it mean to know? Yeah, and I see also Woody saying 'knowing.' So what does it mean to know? To have a concept about something is to know? Or to have a seeing of something, a perception of something is to know? What does it mean to know? Because why is this question so important? It is because this is what is making us suffer. Our knowledge is what we think, all our shoulds and should-nots.

Okay, I don't know what to say. I don't know how to explain it. Okay, okay. See, this particular... like only all this, all the... can I... all that I can perceive: the person, the iPad, the mind, and the body. It's like I'm not... I'm not...

All right, all that you're saying now, you know this. I perceive it. And the one who knows is perceived also? Is to perceive to know? Because what the Vedantins have told us is that everything that you perceive is false because it comes and goes. So therefore, to perceive is not knowledge because it's not true. Yes, then what would be true?

Okay, anything that I can say, it's not that. It is already... but let's see, let's see. This is true because is there something that you know but you don't have to perceive or think about?

Yes, what is that?

It's not like... I don't know if it's a knowing, but more like a being.

Yes, okay. Okay, let's do this. Do this experiment. I'm going to mute you for one minute. I'm going to share this experiment again after a long time with everyone and then I'll unlock you. Okay, so it's been a while since I shared about the four cups. So this is an experiment just talking about the same thing, trying to make it simpler. So in the first cup, we put everything that we feel we know because we have perceived it. Everything that we feel we know because we perceive. So all of our perceptions basically go into the first bowl. In the second bowl, all the concepts that we have independent of even perception, you see. Like we have a concept that the earth is moving around the sun. We don't perceive it, but because the concept comes from reliable sources, we think, we believe that. So that knowledge we have through concepts. Our perceptions are telling us the opposite, actually. Our perception is telling us that the earth is very steady, we are on steady ground, solid. No, but actually it is very, very fast moving apparently. So all the conceptual knowledge that we have, we put into the second cup.

Then in the third cup, all the desire, especially the spiritual desire, that 'I should get this,' 'I should be like this,' 'This should not happen to me.' All the desire goes into the third cup. What is left in the fourth bowl? So I'm going to repeat and I'm going to unmute EP, but I'm going to repeat. So everything that we perceive we put into the first bowl. Everything that we just have a concept about, what we take to be true, goes into the second bowl. And everything that we desire, even out of this process, if we feel like something should happen, goes into the third bowl. Now what is left in the fourth bowl? How many say... okay, I'm going to put the gallery view. How many? There is nothing left? There is your physical hand, nothing left? Okay, few. Nothing left? Nothing? Okay, I see that. Okay, what are the rest of you seeing?

And auxiliary question to this is: in which bowl did you go? If you go in the bowl of perception, how many went in the bowl of perception? You went? Then second bowl, in the conceptual understanding? That's easier because you notice that there are many moments where you're in the gap between thoughts, so you have no real conceptual knowledge in that moment and yet you are not gone. So not in the second bowl. And most likely you would not have said that you went in your bowl of desires because although desire is a strong aspect of your ego, it is not the only aspect. So the third bowl also you can't go. So where did you go? If there is nothing left, where did you go? Fourth one? Yeah, so this bowl is impossible because you are beyond all perception, concept, and notion. But in the metaphor, of course, you are that which remains when all the other things have been dropped in the first three, you see. What remains? So beyond perception, beyond thought, and beyond all desire. So that's the quickest way to come to an insight about your true Self. The quickest way is this. Not many get this. This is the expansion of this.

Great. Now how do you know about this one which is left now? For the fourth bowl, this can't be a perception, it can't be a concept. You see, there's some other something else going on here, isn't it? Something else going on here. What it means, something with your perception or concepts, something beyond perception and concept. We never talk about this 'something' in our life mostly. We only talk perception, perception, concept, concept, perception. But this Self-knowledge—I'm going to put a word to it now, or Atma Darshan—is never spoken about because it cannot be put in the narrative of any sort. What you find yourself to be here, make it a part of your story. Make it a part of some story. Let's say you're having an argument with your partner. May see it as this one, as this fourth bowl one? It cannot be, because the nature of this is formless.

So yes, yes, but even formless is just a concept. It's beyond even that because if you see it formless, it goes into the second bowl.

But we're just trying to communicate, so I understand. Now tell me the story of your life as the one which is not in the first three bowls. What has happened to you the last 20 years? What has happened? Who can do it? Nothing can happen. Even that you can't really see. Even that 'nothing has ever happened' does not happen. Are we just playing with words? Are you with me? When you try to storify from the perspective of this true knowledge, it is impossible to say this narrative is completely true about me. How will you insert yourself? Who's the protagonist? And you cannot suffer without your stories. Yeah, some background noise like somebody is playing with a bag of chips.

Okay, so the question about how do we know what we think we know is a very relevant one because as we've seen with this whole simple bowls example, it has nothing to do with what we take to be usual knowing. Traditionally, this is all a bunch of strange words. So that's all right at some level because of the language also sometimes. Yeah, you know, I noticed one thing, that if you go to YouTube now, the YouTube's auto-generated captions have become very good. Because initially when they started, they could not get this one's accent and style of talking and mumbling style, but I've noticed now that it's pretty accurate. So if you watch with those auto-generated captions, that may also help in some way. Thank you. How do you know what you think you know?

I don't know anything. Then you can't... I can't... I don't... I mean, not just now, in general. I don't suffer. I cannot. And yeah, maybe this is some imposter on Facebook that you have to remove access to. Yes, actually I wanted to give a report about this, not the situation, but what I really realized in the situation. Yes, sorry, breathing, heart beating. So yes, some situation going on which sometimes anger comes, disturbing so much, present. But what I notice is that, Father, I'm just so okay with all this feeling. Actually, I'm happy that I can feel disturbance. I mean, it's allowed to be felt and it's not something that I forced. And I'm just so happy about my anger, you know, because I was not allowed to feel my anger and all those stuff. So I have no problem with all these things. And but I realized that, and I always thank you for everything, but also you have given me the freedom to, you know, like act in the way that how moments require. And that nothing can be really sticky, you know. Even though the waves are always changing, sometimes no waves, sometimes so much, but they are not sticky anymore. And this is my joy for me to share with you today.

Very good, really. Yeah, and then they are not sticky and you just do what needs to be required. And it's also such a joy, actually. It's such a joy to walk freely in this life, in this world, and you just continue to do things which are required. So yeah, just thank you, Father, for giving me this freedom.

Because yeah, but yes, and nothing, you know, nothing can stick here and you're just free.

And nice metaphor, actually. No post-it notes here. You know these post-it notes, the sticky notes? No sticky notes here. That's it. That's all satsang. Because you didn't... yeah, I don't want to say more. Yeah, just thank you, Father. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

After the report, I want to... after the report, yes, we have done with the report and now I have a little bit something which I want to share and it doesn't come by... I don't know.

You can come back at the end then. You can come back at the end if you want. If it comes by then, what is it? You want to sing something or what?

I can't find it now. I don't know, sorry.

I have that effect. It's fine. Because there was a sense of problem about something else, but now good.

Yeah, but it was seeming like a problem so I feel a little bit confused now. But it's okay, I think. Okay, I don't know. Okay, thank you, thank you.

That's good, yeah. I had given you some homework. I've become again... last few days I was traveling actually. So yeah, I've been to Ananta's room, Father. Why not? Yeah, okay. I thought I will never be able to go there because I don't know, but actually I was planning to go to Kedarnath but then... and then I went to Yogi Ramsuratkumar. So what I do, I said I should look for the job.

Like a problem, so I feel a little bit confused now, but it's okay. I think okay, I don't know. Okay, thank you. Thank you, that's good.

Yeah. I had given you some homework.

I've become again... last few days I was traveling actually, so yeah. I've been to Ananda's room, Father. Why not? Yeah, okay. Yeah, I thought I will never be able to go there because I don't know, but actually I was planning to go to Kedarnath, but then I went to Yogi Ramsuratkumar. So what I do, I said I should look for the job, but you know, I can't look for one. I mean, you know, and then something got poked in that conversation. What happened? Um, told me to pray for the job. Somehow I don't trust in prayers, Father. I mean, they will never... no, it might happen actually. When I went last time, before meeting Mooji Baba in Tiruvannamalai 2021—sorry, last year—yeah, I don't know. So I asked her if she can pray for me because I was not able to do at that time also. So then I got a job in August last year. I mean, it just happened like a miracle, you can say. And then I was in the job till May, but it didn't go well, so I got out of the job. This thing bothers me because I need to, you know, earn some money for my living, but I can't look for one. But then, so this time I wanted to tell her thanks for her prayers last time, but then I didn't say. I was just bowing down to her and then she started asking me. So I said, 'I got a job last time after your prayer and then I had to leave.' Then she was asking, no, what am I doing? I should look for one. And then she told me to pray now. And then somehow since then, this is bothering me again and again.

And then it's okay for her to pray for your job and for you to get it, but you can't?

Yeah, even that thing, even I was still thinking the same. I mean, last time when I asked her to pray... and then yesterday I went to Mauna Swamy in Villupuram to ask her to pray. But when she asks you, that's a problem.

It's reminding me of that other joke which I can't share now. So, okay, can I help you with something? Which is that you have one job. All of you in satsang, you have one job, which is to stay with fresh God, which is here right now. You do that job; all other jobs it will do for you. But you don't burden it with the idea, your idea of what that should be. And I'm not just giving some reassuring words or something like that; that's what life is. And you went to your mother yogis, and what job did Yogi Ji have? Of being God and bringing God to everyone. They still have that job. So that is the highest job. Then all other jobs will happen through that. You pray if you want to pray. Um, you can pray for the highest job; otherwise, just in your being, that is already inherent. So not to worry, there is no distinction there. If you have, if you had full God, what else could you want? I think you have full God. Full God is just presence. Presence is full God. The mind's job is to say 'not enough, not enough, not enough.' That's all that's happening in life.

The presence which I saw last time when I spoke to... but most of the time I can't see that presence or I can't perceive that presence.

So when you're not in this environment or not in satsang, just check for yourself: are you here? Are you there or no? And whose presence is that? So sometimes I ask the question like this: can you stop being? And instead of chasing the being or chasing the presence, try to stop being.

Are you sitting?

Yes, Father.

Sitting. Who is that sitting? Before sitting, you are there.

I didn't get before the sitting part.

You are there, no?

I'm sitting.

So this 'I am,' how is it recognized? It's just so simple like that. If you expect to see some fireworks or something, then that will become strange. Sometimes just naturally it may feel like that, but just what gives you the ability to confirm that 'I am sitting'? 'I am.' 'I am' is the presence. Are you, are you here or not?

Yes, that 'I am,' yeah.

So before 'here,' you are. So whether it's sitting or here or standing or talking, all of the verbs can come later, but the being, the central subject, has to be primary, isn't it?

As you see it further, there is this sound, and as I pay attention to it, it becomes so strong.

But who pays attention to it? You do. You only say 'I pay attention to it.' How do you know about the existence of this 'you'? There is a saying of even attention. Yeah, you see it, isn't it? You see an attention. So not really, but we'll just keep that aside for the moment. So this 'you' that sees everything, can that be seen?

I never saw that.

Yes, yet you were confirming it. In fact, it is absurd to say, 'No, no, it is I am not seeing it.' You see, it is absurd to say because that 'I' is always present, but it cannot be seen as perception and that cannot be understood as thought. And yet this knowledge we have in another way, which is what the whole four bowls is. Don't use the wrong ways to try and see yourself, because in those wrong ways you will never find it. So keep the wrong ways aside. You will notice that naturally it is just so apparent. Self-knowledge is just so clear. In fact, all other knowledge just gets in the way of this, or seems to get in the way of this, which is so naturally clear. So don't expect to see it as some objective scene; that is what will trouble you right now. Who's hearing these words?

Me.

That's it. You're not assuming that, you're not just inferring that, you're not presuming that, you're not perceiving that, and yet you're able to confirm it is you. This simplest is the most complicated for the mind, you see. This simplest for the heart is the most complicated to the mind. Therefore, all of satsang is to just leave them—leave the mind for a moment at least. Are you here?

Yes.

That's it. That confirmation comes from that space of intuitive insight, you see. It comes from there. It always is. But you can't use it for Srikant, who is the spiritual seeker who wants spiritual knowledge so that his life can become better. But it does not really exist. So it is not a deal that God has to be found so that God can help you, you see. When God is found, you are lost. As the great sage said, the road is very narrow; when there is God, there is no me; when there is me, there is no God. So the deal is not that I have to work hard, study hard, get all the spiritual concepts in my head, do my inquiry homework very well, and then God will help me. No, it is not true. And it is not the finding of God which is difficult; it is to let go of the projections for this 'me' which seems to be more troublesome. And in fact, there's no difference between the two. Just to find God for a moment at least, you have to let go of all your projections. Nothing to trouble yourself so much. You are doing very well. From Hyderabad right now? Okay, come, come sometime.

I want to come sometime.

You can come after them. Hello, Father.

Hello. It's been such a long time since I see you, yes. Has it? Your name already contains all the essential elements for freedom. Yeah, 'mad' is there already, either. Oh, I'm so happy that Yogi Ji's presence came in satsang because I had to share that I also received his darshan this week in my mailbox. I got some vibhuti from Mother Lakshmi and from the ashram, and it was so beautiful because I came home and I was going to the mailbox and a butterfly crossed my face and stopped next to the mailbox, and it was so obvious. And then I opened it and yeah, I found my blessings. He localized... sorry, some things, some sounds which are distracting us. And I have to share that I'm greedy for your presence and Mother Lakshmi's presence because I was only thinking on my way to Europe to stop in India, but it's very hard at the moment. They have not opened up travel and things so easily.

I don't know if they open travelers, but it's like somebody coming... no, no, for after two years somebody is coming from Germany. They're going to be here for two weeks or something.

Yeah, it's like any flight is 30 hours and you have to change the number of airports. I see, because you know what's happening, that everybody wants to travel now after not being able to travel, so all the flights have become booked and difficult.

I think it's more like they haven't opened all the flights yet, so the big companies, they don't feel right. You know, this term is tourism, they finished everything. And I have to write with a compelling reason to the Australian government to go.

I think before compelling... with compelling, I found out self-realization. So the immigration officer spoke to her for one hour. 'What are you doing there? Who are you meeting in Bangalore? Why do you have to come to Bangalore to get self-realization?' You know, I have to write to the Australian government why I want to leave Australia. I have to leave. I feel like they're quite open with leaving; they're entering which they have the problem with.

I don't know, it seems to be both ways. I'll... I'm going to find out. Oh, this one's from Australia? Yeah, I don't... I think I'm not vaccinated. I'm sure it works somehow. Thank you. Can I share something else? No, we had satsang with some... with a small group of brothers and sisters from here in Gold Coast, and there was a new person coming, you know, a new being coming in. She's from India, she's quite young, and it was her first time in satsang. And she's been studying here for two years, why he takes you something, and she was trying to get the job in her field. She was already working, but as a shop assistant, then she was trying to get the job in her field. And now, and all stories, they help us in all our little desires all the time. So I shared with her about Yogi Ramsuratkumar and his mantra, and I gave her a picture of Yogi Ram. Yeah, she put the picture on her desk and she prayed for a couple of weeks, and a couple of weeks later she posted on Facebook that she just got a new job.

Often it's true. I know it's true. It was funny how our brother here said that, yeah, he's looking for a job but he's reluctant to pray. So that's a sweet story.

It is, it is amazing. So, and she's going to cook for us palak paneer on tomorrow, tomorrow evening, and we are going to have satsang on Sunday.

What are you more excited about? I don't know, I don't know. I'm being, I'm being cheeky. I'm getting her to cook the day before at my place. I get to taste. Thank you so much. There you go. Let's... there's... I'm not prepared again with anything, but there are few benchmarks, rough benchmarks which I have. It's like, you know, it's in my head. It's like I'm talking to you and I'm saying I have my finger and there's this fire and my finger is burning. So you're asking, 'What are you doing?' I'm putting my finger in the fire. Then you're saying, 'Okay, you stop doing that.' Yes, exactly. You know, you stop doing that. And it's very simple, you know, as far as the presence is concerned. And this, it's very clear, this has no problems and there is no... it's not that even the subject of problem is not there. I'm going to... I have to add the 'but' because otherwise I would not come here just to speak about it. This narrative is really an ongoing narrative day in, day out for me. That's why I'm bringing it out. Please, if you please allow me, bear with me just few minutes because I'm always thinking some people are waiting and I'm wasting people's time because it's not important. I have that kind of... it's leaving this country and moving back to India and it's... they're offering this amount which is 20 lakhs and they say, 'Okay, you can go.' And somewhere I... when I say 'I,' it's of course it's a person thing, personal thing. I can see that. And today I read your words: 'The one who is asking for money and the one who wants freedom, they are the same.' And it just hit me like a hammer. I said, 'My God, this is just...' It was not seen for so long and now finally it's right on my face, you know. This is the same one which is kind of... in fact, about this, yeah, absolutely. So, and so I'm not going into the spiritual arena and I'm just saying that this personal thing, and I'm bringing it a very personal, and I'm not able to take this step.

I can see that, and today I read your words: 'The one who is asking for money and the one who wants freedom, they are the same.' And it just hit me like a hammer. I said, 'My God, this is just...' It was not seen for so long and now finally it's right in my face, you know? This is the same one. So, I'm not going into the spiritual arena; I'm just saying that this personal thing, I'm bringing it very personal. I'm not able to take this step because there is the whole future involved. Sometimes 20 lakhs looks like, 'Wow, it's a big amount for a lifetime.' And look at other people in India and they don't have anything and they're struggling, and you're getting this money to go back. And sometimes my circumstances are such here, you see, it's going in a very graphic way. I am staying on my own all the time. There is not much human contact and this is very challenging. There is human contact maybe once a week, twice a week, and then it's always on my own and there's no one around here. Sometimes there are tears and the mind is playing like this. I can see that the difficulty actually is, the real problem is, I can't be with myself. I said, 'What is this? Who is this "I" which can't be with myself?' And then of course, then your words... and actually I am here. What is this story with myself and all that? And then back again to this. So this is going on and it's a continuous narrative. I'm not here asking; I'm just putting it out before you.

It's very good. It's very good to just share these things which can seem so big and strong when they're inside, but once exposed in the light of satsang, some relief may come from them. It's very good. Which country? You have to remind me of what you told me. This is Denmark?

Yeah, yeah. They're paying people to leave, is it? Yeah, there's a policy here which says if you hold the PR from a country, you can give the PR back, and they give you around 18-19 lakhs. So I have this carrot hanging. I've almost hit 50, so if I leave within five years—if I somehow can hold it five years, which I'm very bad at, I never saved up money in my life and I never had that pull to do these things, I lived quite whatever is coming, I just live—but if I can hold that five years, then at the age of 55 if you leave, then they give you 20 plus 30,000 rupees a month for a lifetime. So these are the options here. And something is pulling me to India. Ananta Ji is there in Bangalore and the whole vibration is different. There are moments when there is such a strong, I don't even know, yearning that 'Please make me merge with you' is going in my heart so strong. And then this sansari stuff, you know? Because Mooji Baba says everyone has a catch. He talks about this monk who was almost free of everything and he went to this monastery, and the devil sent his dude, 'Go and watch him.' And then there was a straw and he made a nice garden; he got so upset with that straw they found him. Okay, that's his catch. So this person is playing and there is that thing to be at your feet. And the way you express yourself, it feels like you belong in India.

You're very welcome. You're very welcome.

I have this pull, and watching your satsang, every word just goes in my blood.

Full blessings for this. And if something else happens and you stay back, that's also fine. But just don't worry. Leave it in God's hands. And as long as you don't, like I was saying earlier, don't burden God with your expectations of what God must do for you, you'll be just fine. And if you look for reassurance, then every story is available. Some kids have come here with nothing in their bank balance and now somehow through grace they're doing very well and comfortable and they continue to live here. Some kids came here and they were able to live for some time but then they had to go back for a job and things like this. So life will give us all kinds of narratives and stories in front of us. But what can we really do is just see what is the true feeling in our heart and just go with that, because nobody really knows.

Yeah, I didn't even ask you, 'Can I come?' I just said, 'I want to be there.'

Of course. All of you children have that privilege completely.

Yeah, because it's such a... and I don't know, I should not, because this presence is available everywhere. It doesn't belong to a place and time. But somehow India, I don't know, maybe I'm born there, but the vibration of that country is supportive of this somehow. I sense that. So it's a story, maybe, I don't know, but something is getting pulled so much.

Follow your heart. Follow your heart. And sometimes your heart's calling may not sound very rational or well thought through, but you will not regret following your heart unless you switch back to the mind very fast. Thank you so much for all my love and blessings. Don't worry, I'm there. I'm there.

Thank you so much.

Let's go to Aniko. Aniko and I always have some fun in conversation.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Ananta Ji. And actually, I just would like to admit something then. I am holding this question for a while now, but at the moment this feels like I just need some tool in my head to come here to get a conversation with you because I feel... not my desire, sorry, just want to say hello basically. I don't know, I just feel obvious when I talk to you something happened to me and I just don't want to miss this opportunity. And I'm so sorry, I don't want to cheat or something, but my question is not that important anymore. But I don't know, I just feel maybe you will just tell me something and something always happened. I don't know what is 'I' and... sorry, that's putting some questions on this side now. Oh God, I don't understand. I don't know why is... is not loud enough now or...

Ah, I just... I'm sorry. Let me see if I can speak up. After two hours of speaking, usually I'm a bit tired.

Oh, sorry. Are you very tired now, Ananta Ji?

We're happy to hear your question, my dear. Let's see, let's see.

Okay, okay, okay. So it was about a physical pain because I had the very best toothache for a long time and I was really suffering like hell. And I said to myself, 'Okay, okay, it's not very difficult to not identify with, for example, the thinker of the thought or the owner of the emotion, but now this physical pain is just killing me.' And how can I say, 'I am not a sufferer'? Because if I wasn't the sufferer, how could I experience this pain that much? And it was just so much.

Yeah, but for you, what is the difference between pain and suffering? What is the difference between these two words?

No, no, the suffering and the pain is the same. But I know I am not the pain, but I know I am the one who suffered the pain. This is what I identify myself with: the one who suffered the pain, the sufferer.

Okay. So sometimes I like to say that pain is a very natural part of human existence, but for suffering, you have to think about it.

I don't know, because it's all it is, even if I don't think.

Let's clarify that. If you're calling the experiencing of the pain itself as suffering, then everybody has to suffer that. Even the sages suffer then. Just your experience of the pain. If something gets cut in the body, pain will be experienced. It just doesn't become like robots where, you know, okay, nothing... no, it's not a sensation. In fact, it may be experienced very strongly because attention is fully with whatever is showing up for a master. So pain can be experienced, you see? But suffering is when we put that pain in time and we insert our ego and say, 'Why me? Why do these things not happen to other people? Why do they keep happening to me all the time?' The victim mindset or the guilty mindset, all of these things which are additional, which use the experience of the pain. The mind uses the experience of it to build a narrative on top of that which includes the 'me' very strongly with the story. That is what we call suffering, you see? So there's a distinction. Pain is very natural; for suffering, you have to work hard. You have to work at it.

I see. I know what is my thing, but I build up from this pain because actually I was thinking about the same, then Ramana Maharshi was sitting there and I know he had a lot of pain in the body because it was a lot of bruising and scars and everything, and he couldn't feel anything. But what I was reading about that, he was just in Samadhi and full...

If you read, for example, he also had cancer in his last days. So he said very clearly that the experience of pain is very much here, but I'm not suffering from it because I don't put my self in that from that perspective, you see? So pain is very much there. I'm sure that—I should not speak for one—but if I were to speculate, I would say that anyone suffering from or in the pain of that disease is bound to experience that pain.

I see. So that was just a misunderstanding then.

Often this is misunderstood and the ego uses that very strongly to say, 'But now if you're free, then how are you still experiencing the pain?' So if this child pinches my hand, I won't just be like, 'Yeah, I'm free, man.' It's not like that. Oh yeah, unfortunately, yeah. I suppose this is... yeah. And I would like to step further and say you're having a tremendous toothache and the mind is making some story and you're suffering from it. Suffer. That is easier. It's okay. If you try to become too Advaita about it during that time, it may seem more difficult. For some of you, maybe it may have seemed very, very different. It depends on the intensity of the pain. Maybe sometimes to remain open and empty may seem easier. Sometimes just like it's happening, you're just like, 'Why me?' and you're crying about this 'me', my dear, who has to constantly keep going through something. It's fine. Just go through that instead of that. But when you get the room and you get the space to look, then drop it immediately. Then don't think about, 'Oh, I should not have identified' and 'Why is this still happening to me?' and all that rubbish can then be thrown out.

Ananta Ji, can I say something? Because now I just feel I just want to carry on talking to you, but I don't have anything to say. And I find now it's kind of attachment or kind of something like this to you. I'm not sure if it's good or not good, but something like this.

Yeah, not spoken for at least two weeks. So are you like suffering, 'I can't speak to Ananta Ji'? Are you suffering in your day-to-day life?

No, I just feel now so much... I don't know. I know, yeah, it's not a suffer. No, not at all. No, I'm just so happy to see you and be with you like this. Yeah, that's it.

Thank you. I'll tell a lot of you kids not to be so hard on yourself and judge yourself from some spiritual lens all the time. Just take it easy. Relax.

Thank you so much. I love you.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, let's go to Sanji.

Hi Guruji.

Hello, my dear.

So I don't have a specific question, but I wanted to bring a situation to you. Someone, a relationship recently came into my life that is causing a lot of confusion, like trouble sometimes. And I like to use this as well to see like what is true, but the thoughts and feelings are changing all the time. And sometimes I don't know if something is protecting something, or it feels sometimes like if I were to be fully true in some moments that it would cause some pain or suffering. And I also don't know if this is something in this one that's being protected. So yes, it causes a lot of confusion.

Sometimes it's easier to just see that all of confusion really is about... and suffering actually is nothing but... just mute everyone and then I unmute. Yes. So at the root of all confusion is confusion about what we are. So when you say this—I found very nice—you said, 'I want to use this as...'

If I were to be fully true in some moments, it would cause some pain or suffering. And I also don't know if this is something in this one that's being protected, so yes, it causes a lot of confusion. So sometimes it's easier to just see that all of confusion really is about, and suffering actually is nothing but—

Just mute everyone and then I am muted, yes. So, at the root of all confusion is confusion about what we are. So when you say this, I found very nice, you said, 'I want to use this as fuel for my discovery,' which is always my recommendation. So that life is always in service to us in some way, in service to our self-discovery. So can you outline just the message of the confusion? What is the confusion about, really?

The confusion is sort of the intention to even be in the relationship and like in both sides, like why, why am I here?

Yes, yes. Why is everything? I'm not saying that you must be in the relationship, by the way. You won't read it that way. You're saying that 'why' question is actually the pointless thing. What the 'why' question? It's like I was taking this example of another child. I was saying to her that a child may sometimes say, 'If there is no monster under my bed, then why am I scared?' So why is the child scared? What's up?

Imagination.

Imagination. Imagination is the purpose. So in this case, why are you in this relationship? What is the cause? Our imaginations, which seem to provide causation to that which just is. So instead of trying to deal with the 'why' question—because what will you get? Suppose you got, 'Okay, this is why you're in this relationship.' Then what will happen? You just have an answer. What's the big deal about having another concept? You have thousands of them anyway, you see. So it is a human condition where we feel like our life is not complete unless we can answer the 'whys' to everything. But actually, that is a denial of our utter hopelessness of our mind to be able to answer this question of why any of this is in the first place. Like, why do we exist?

Now, in spirituality you will get answers because, 'Oh, God wanted to experience itself in some manifest way,' or 'God wanted this,' or 'God wanted that.' But God cannot have desire in reality. So just let the question go away because actually, why anything is beyond the realm of our mind's understanding. We cannot really fathom. So it's much better if you are able to change the question from 'why' to 'who.' It's just one alphabet change. Have you noticed the tendency of the mind to be so attracted to the 'why' question and completely repulsed by the 'who' question? You can't clarify what you are before you can clarify the reasoning for anything. Like I was telling the child before, the reasoning for anything only comes from first determining what it is at the base, who you are at the center. So before you can answer why you are in a relationship, can you define really who you are? Who is in the relationship?

If I ask this question, it feels like something's... something will just disappear.

Only the bad news will disappear. It's only the ignorance which is what is making us suffer and confused too much, yes.

Like something will get too exposed or something.

Don't fear that, my child. Don't fear that at all. That is just a mind's defense mechanism, you see, to prevent you from feeling the reality about yourself. So it will keep you confused in this sort of phase unless you really, really look at what you are. Everything else is secondary. And in every life, we have these variables. We have these variables, and we have the variable of the body and all of these things, and finally, we have the variable about freedom and discovery. You see, all of our life is just made up of these things, these four things. It's not complicated at all. But because they dance in such a compelling way, it can seem to have so much juice and fire and things. But the way to snap out of the play of these variables, to not suffer from them—although they may be allowed to continue in whatever way, you see—is today to find out what you are. Who is it that is in the midst of all of this?

I feel always like I want some conclusions, some finality, some stability. Yes, like just ask a question and let it be like this. It feels shaky.

So there is only finality in this, you see. The only finality there is in this waking life is the discovery of the Self. Everything else is just original notions that we add to our narratives, but they don't really mean anything. That's why those who come to this discovery, you put up their photos on the wall, because they came to something. Don't be scared. I'm with you. I'm with you in this. And it is that calling which is getting you into Satsang. And it's not by chance. Something is calling you to this discovery. And some, of course, it's the mind's job to create confusion, but you just have to hold my hand through it. And you see that it's just scared and just fear.

So can I take, as if I take some homework, it's to ask who am I?

Yes, best. Best homework. Best, best one. This is the best homework. And I'll give you some tips. Just ask, 'Who am I?' Sometimes the mind presents an answer. Ask, 'Who witnesses that thought?' And don't expect some state of peace or joy. That may come naturally, but don't get attached to them. Stay with your true intention, which is to find out who you are with all sincerity and all. Thank you. Okay, some more answers here, but I feel like I'm just today for today, but some translations. Thank you all so much for being in Satsang today. Om Guru Shrimati. Yes, you.