What Prevents Us from Being Simple, from Being Innocent? - 14th October 2024

Some people are tempted to imagine that they can prolong the prayer of quiet, and they may even try not to breathe. This is ridiculous. We can no more control this prayer than we can make the day break or stop night from falling. It is supernatural and something we cannot acquire. We can neither diminish nor add to it, but being most unworthy and undeserving of it, can only receive it with thanksgiving. The will simply loves, and no effort needs to be made by reason or understanding.

So really, the contrast between the mind's offer to make our life better—that's what it's constantly offering—versus Saint Teresa's offer that when we are empty of ourselves, then God works on our heart. That is the key. And to be empty of ourselves is to be open and empty, to be in the prayer of quiet. Notice that it was said that we must pray unceasingly. And to pray unceasingly is to make prayer very natural, and it becomes really natural when we return to an innocence which is empty of our will and we live completely surrendered to God's will. So our egoic identity deflates and becomes a mere shadow of what it was. That allows God's light to shine through. And it is this prayer of quiet which then ultimately converts into the prayer of union, which is the merging into Oneness. And whether we call it the prayer of union or we call it nirvikalpa samadhi, it doesn't matter. But primarily, it is this absence of individuality and, most importantly, an absence of individual will which allows us first to meet God's presence within ourselves and then to merge into that holy presence.

So I feel the crux of it is the promise by Saint Teresa, who says that when we are empty of ourselves, then God works on us. And in this way, there is no distinction between 'works on us' and 'for us.' So how literally can we take her words? She may be lying, you see? Maybe exaggerating a bit? Do you feel like that? It can't be. And some of us have read some of her work and you see that the innocence and humility which is there—there is no interest in exaggeration. In fact, maybe tending in the other direction clearly, but definitely not making things bigger than they are. So if such a one is telling us that if we let go, then he runs us, he runs this life, he works on us, and even our freedom is his responsibility, even our merging in the heart is his responsibility, then we can take that very literally.

Maybe we can dive in a little deeper into what it means to be empty of ourselves and therefore to live in the presence of presence itself, be present to his presence. Firstly, are we willing to take the risk of even intending or wanting this alone? Are we willing to risk that? Suppose that you became empty of yourself but your life didn't go in the direction that you wanted it to. So the promise of meeting God came true, but the ideas that we have about our life didn't unfold—none of them did. Are you willing to risk that? Really see, because that's where the difficulty comes. Everything that we are attached to—suppose that that was taken away from us. Willing to risk it for God? Not that it has to happen that way, but to notice whether we are open to that or not is very important. And it doesn't even have to be that far into the future; even right now, are you willing to be moved by God this moment, unconcerned about what people around you will think or they will say? Break the frame of self-image. And if your intention is to live that way truly, then I don't feel like God will restrain himself from running your life. But if we are really scared of that risk and we are not taking that fear to him but trying to deal with it ourselves, then we are not really handing over our life to God, our heart to God.

Who do you belong to right now? Literally, who owns us in this moment? Ego means individual ownership. True life of devotion means that a life belongs to God. This moment belongs to God. And in that, making this moment for God is the prayer; is the true prayer. So are we being led by fear and desire? Are we being led by our heart compass? Can we let go of this ownership over our life? Because the great seers told us that as we meet him more and more deeper in our heart, his light starts to spread across our entire life. She seems to imply that it's only a question of how much space we are willing to give, how much control we are willing to hand over. Which aspects of ourselves have we signed over to God?

So what prevents us from being simple, from being innocent? So the saint gave us great advice. She said that—and she's talking to her sisters—she said the sister who is in the prayer of quiet will often notice that understanding will try to pull her away, but really it's not understanding, it's just thoughts. Do you notice that part of the video? It's just thoughts. And she would be well advised not to get into a fight with them but just to laugh them away. Such a simple point allows us to remain simple. And it is only in this sheer simplicity—in fact, a sheer nakedness—in which we recognize the truth about who we are.

Is it so? This simplicity is really an unpretentiousness and not a pretentiousness or a pretense like it is used in the world where somebody is being very fancy. Well, in a way, yes, but just the pretense of individuality which the mind offers us constantly, you see? It offers us a mask in the garb of self-defense or self-glorification. But to not take the offer to put on that mask... in a way, it offers us a fig leaf because we are very scared of being seen as we are in our sheer openness, vulnerability, nakedness. So it offers us a fig leaf in the form of a frame. And the frame could be a teacher, it could be a disciple, it could be a child, it could be a sister, it could be a boss at work, it could be an employee. But to be empty of that frame, to not take ownership of ourselves using these frames, is to actually actively offer ourselves up to God. See? Because we may say, 'Oh, I actively belong to you, God.' You may say that, but we may never do it actually. So then that is just a frame that we may use, is it? So it's not just in the lip service, but to say that 'I belong to you, God' and then to let go of control over ourselves, see? Because what else can we do to offer ourselves to him? We can't force ourselves on him. We can't say, 'Here I am, take, take.' We can't do it. All we can do is carry the intention and then have faith that, empty of me, I belong to him. I hope you're getting a sense of what I'm saying because it can be a bit subtle.

So we're building on the point that empty of ourselves, he works on us. Empty of ourselves means we do not belong to ourselves anymore, that we belong to him. But there's no way that we can force that belonging to him. We only have to have faith that he knows. And through whichever lens we look at this, we have to conclude that something out of the ordinary happens when we surrender, when we submit, when we let go of ourselves. So whether we listen to Master Bankei saying all things are perfectly resolved in the Unborn—how? Why are they resolved? What makes that sage give us this guarantee that all things are perfectly resolved in the Unborn? It is because something out of the ordinary then has taken hold. If it was a sheer nihilistic limbo, then there's no question of anything being resolved. But this sage must have noticed that empty of ourselves in the Unborn, a greater will, a greater power takes over and nothing is a problem anymore. And in the same way, how is it that a Zen koan, which is nonsensical at best, can bring us to an insight which is higher than any intellect? Because it forces us to give up on ourselves, you see? So a koan just breaks you. You're really committed to solving it and your master has given it to you; it just breaks you out of your intellect and you give up on yourselves. And when you give up on yourself, a higher insight comes to you. Is it strange? And how is it that asking a question like 'Who am I?' can bring you an insight which is out of this universe? Is it? So it is not the path or the method which is important; it is to come to this point where we empty of ourselves. In asking the question 'Who am I?' often enough, you realize that you have not a single tool that can answer this question. We have zero ability to come to true insight, is it? So in truly asking sincerely, whether or not we realize that we are doing that, we are no longer appealing to our own power; we are appealing to a higher power. Because it is only that Satguru presence, the Atma within, the Holy Spirit, that can show us the reality of who we are. So all paths lead to this letting go, this surrender. A bhakta cannot get God with their own power no matter how much they try. A jnani...

We have not a single tool that can answer this question. We have zero ability to come to true insight. Is it so? In truly asking sincerely, whether or not we realize that we are doing that, we are no longer appealing to our own power. We are appealing to a higher power because it is only that Satguru presence, the Atma within, the Holy Spirit, that can show us the reality of who we are. So all paths lead to this letting go, this surrender. A bhakta cannot get God with their own power, no matter how much they try. A jnani cannot come to insight about Nirguna Brahman with their own power, no matter how much they try. See, it is just not possible because we don't have access to that tool itself. We have nothing to turn, no levers that we can use. That is why the promise of stay as you are may seem very simple on its face, but actually it's very deep. When we let go of ourselves, then God works on us.

Can we be happy with that first? It's a question of faith, because you may not realize palpably that He is with you, He is working on you. Then it's a question of sacrificing together, actually. But let's look at it this way: then it's a question of sacrificing my will and just remaining present to His presence. And here you have to be very careful of your spirituality, huh? That may sound strange, you see, because your spirituality may become the rather than becoming an expression of His will, may become an expression of your will. See? So that allowing yourself to become more and more innocent, not even knowing what is your path or framing yourself in any way, versus now picking up a new expression of individuality by framing yourself too strongly in spiritual frameworks, is something that we have to be careful about.

So take a minute to define yourself spiritually, then tear up that piece of paper and throw it away. Because if God can do the work on you and for you, you don't need to bother with any of that framework. Because many in satsang will just get trapped over there. 'This is the type of spirituality I like, this I don't like, this I agree, this I don't agree.' And it's same as worldliness. Where is the surrender to God in that? We just use a different playground to express our will. It doesn't make us spiritual. Getting it? A devotee is one who goes anywhere that God takes them. Many times it will seem like you're drowning, you don't have ground to stand on, you don't know what's happening with your life, you don't know if you're making any spiritual progress. And especially in those times, can we remain innocent like infant children, reliant only on the Mother God for all true knowledge, self-knowledge, and whatever experiences we have to taste in this life?

So if the role models for us are Shabri, Prahlad, Job, Abraham, so many, Hanuman Ji, so many examples—what is the use of those role models if you take Prahlad Ji for example? At what point did he give up on his faith? And imagine a life like that. Your own father has become your enemy and he's doing all kinds of diabolical things to you as a little child, but he continued to have faith in his Lord, in Narayan. What is the boundary of our faith? A bad day? A bad relationship? Maybe just a bad interaction is a boundary? A bad two minutes? That is when—and why is this point important? It's important because that is the point at which we take back the reins from God, saying, 'Okay, You're not going in the right direction, I need to take control back.' Is it? And as soon as this 'me' comes back, this is Maya, which is Maya.

So this is the difficulty of this project. And like most of you have told me, easier said than done. I completely agree. I'm not at all in disagreement with that. It is easier said than done, and that is why it is a lifetime project. Because even as spirituality can make us proud, you see, that is the trump card. That is the trump card of the mind. Even the medicine can make us diabetic, is it? So Kabir said spirituality is the medicine which, half-swallowed, is going to cause more trouble than solve anything. It has to be fully swallowed. And Kabir said that Maya is the greatest con artist who can hide in the devotion of the devotee also. Beautiful imagery he uses in that, which is to say that even under the lotus of the Lord's feet, even under that, it can hide. See?

So to retain that innocence, what does it take? What does it take to break us out of it? It's worth contemplating this. And I keep looking at this for myself, and sometimes I realize that my foolishness is beyond compare. Because it could be one message, you see, or it could be one phone call, it could be one interaction, network, or anything. It could be anything. It could just be a spam phone call that just brings me back to take the reins into my own hands and to let go of that innocence, to pick up the pretense of personhood. To take the control back again takes very little and reminds me of the beginner that I am.

But the good thing is that it was very possible for this life to have gone in a way where I would not have realized the immensity of this project at all. That is why Maya is such a strong con artist, because it can make it about an awakening, it can make it about an event, rather than a life of complete surrender and servitude. And that possibly was the difference between Ravana and Shabri. And besides other physical differences, where Ravana had great spirituality, maybe greater than Shabri—great tapasya, great experiences, very strong siddhis, everything given to him by the grace of God, unparalleled, maybe a great pandit, he's even written great scriptures, Shiva Tandava, so many beautiful things—but then the trump card of the mind made it about him and no longer about God, is it?

So as my friends, as my children, I would say to all of you: don't ever presume that you are beyond it now, that it is about an event that happened with you, an experience that unfolded for you, all by His grace anyway. We notice that true spiritual growth happens when we are not doing it, when God is doing it, isn't it? So when God is doing it, for the 'me' to come up and take credit for that, or to say that 'I am special because of something that God did'—don't ever fall into that kind of foolishness. And I speak to you as one who came very close to that, came very close to the trajectory of such a life of taking themselves to be special. And maybe it's still playing out. So just you know that sometimes the deviation is 0.001 degree, but over time that becomes a huge gap. It may start off as a tiny thing.

So that pleading with you to not define yourselves comes from that perspective, that in your tiniest frame of—maybe you just said it because you wanted to introduce yourself to someone and then that became your identity, your new spiritual identity. Rely on God for everything, especially what to say in this moment. Sometimes that itself is the trap. So it's very easy to fall into those patterns, especially like in the sharing of satsang which has happened here every alternate day for 12 years. It's very easy to fall back into the groove of conditioned response. See, the freshness of allowing God to move these lips can easily be hidden under those correct answers, of correct-sounding answers. So the courage to be empty in this moment and to be all right with looking like a fool. It doesn't have to be just in the sharing of satsang; in any interaction, that will really help you in this. Let your mouth surprise you. If it's not surprising you, then you've fallen into some conditioning, is it? Let what you speak, what you say, surprise you.

Hello. That surprised me, but yes. I think I was very attracted by the fool category. So, I'm the fool. I need to expose something. Yes, I'm just going crazy about this parenting thing here with me, and so is Anna. And I think I'm trying to control something or I'm overprotecting my children from anything, from energy, from dark forces. And I see like a trap in anything.

How you protect from energy and dark forces?

I become like a Power Ranger. I asked them to come to satsang, to pray, to be pure, you know.

That doesn't sound bad. Sounds good. It doesn't sound so bad.

Yeah, no, it sounds reasonable. It's just in this interaction from now, like about 10 minutes ago, I couldn't see Ken in the house and he did not respond to my call. So suddenly I thought he's doing something wrong and then I went outside to catch him. So I left satsang for this. And then the child comes out of my bedroom and said, 'Oh, I had a nightmare.' He realized he had a nightmare and she should come to satsang or something. Anna went outside and she was very hard to bring back and said, 'Hey, come back, I need to go back to satsang.' He came, I don't know, he came with this idea that he needs to come to satsang. So, and I can't control anything, you know? I can't control any situation. And I have this impression that she takes over energies and I'm trying to clean her up, and sometimes I'm more successful than others. And it's still reoccurring, a situation is aggravating again and starting to lose faith in a way and help.

I see what you mean. So let's talk about this aspect of it a little broadly first, and then if need be, then we can zero in on this particular situation. So far we've talked about remaining empty of 'me,' allowing God to move this life, to work on this life, to own this life. But in the lives of all of us, there will be some situations, especially things like parenting, relationships, things like this, where that may sound too difficult to do. To fully let go may sound really difficult to do. So when there is identity and it is palpable that I am concerned about the outcome of where this is going or what I have to do next, and I want things to be a certain way—this is identity, isn't it? Desired worship, duality is identity.

So when we come into those situations and they seem really strong, and we may try to be empty but we just can't, then what do we do? We try to pray, we try to inquire, we try to remain empty—all these things we try. But suppose that the narrative is just too compelling, and in all our lives there are one or two narratives which are just—they seem too compelling. Then of course, pray. We pray. But if we are going to have a narrative, then make yourself the sidekick in that narrative. Who is the main hero? Is God. So whether you say Ram, Krishna, Jesus, Allah, Ananta, Guruji, whatever you say, make that the main—make Him/Her the main protagonist and you be the temple priest. Because you're not going to get into any denial saying, 'Oh, this is not bothering me because I am the Self. This is not bothering me, I'm just the Self,' unless you're really inquiring into that and saying, 'Who am I? Who is getting concerned by this?' It's a beautiful inquiry to do that, you see. But to hide like an ostrich using spiritual concepts will only make it worse.

So better to meet it and to say that this thing, this narrative, is really strong for me and I'm not able to let go. I've tried every pointer from satsang, but I can tell for myself that I'm getting stuck in this story. So then change the narrative. Know that you are just a tiny player in this unfolding, and as the priest of the temple, your job is to bring things to God and to bring things back from God. And it's really simple. If it's becoming complicated, then you're going too far. So you're empty and this is unfolding, God's light is unfolding. Suppose that you're not able to be empty, that narrative is just oppressing you, you see? Then just take it to God. Somebody shouting at you—it's very tough—insulting you—very tough. And so just go to your heart temple, say, 'God,' say, 'Father,' say, 'Beloved,' whatever you want to say. 'This situation only You can handle, You can deal with. I don't know what to do, I don't know what to say, but I am concerned about it. It is bothering me.' Just hand it over to God. I know to the advanced ones it may sound like too childish even, like, 'What is this? Can't I chant some amazing mantra or isn't there some super duper...'

Shouting at you, it's very tough. Insulting you, very tough. Something... and so just go to your heart temple. Say God, say Father, say beloved, whatever you want to say. This situation only You can handle, You can deal with. I don't know what to do, I don't know what to say, but I am concerned about it. It is bothering me. Just hand it over to God. I know to the advanced ones it may sound like too childish, even like, 'What is this? Can't I chant some amazing mantra? Or isn't there some super duper inquiry that I can use?' In your heart, you know that you are stuck. This is for those situations, you see. So something seems out of your control and it seems important for you, enough important for you to worry about, to be concerned about. So rather than worry, it is better that we offer it in prayer to God. To take it to God even in its specifics when needed and to say that 'This situation is concerning me. I know it is not true, I know it is Maya, but still it has got me by the throat.' So just have a simple childlike conversation with God and give it to Him. Father, can I do this in peace? And as much as you can, wait for Him to bring you the response as to what to do.

Is it so? What is the most important thing we need in this? We need patience because in those situations the mind will want you to rush. It wants you to rush and just get into Maya fully, you see. The game is on. All the special effects are made for you, you see. It wants you to jump into this realm of Maya and just forget about God and just take on control. But if you can, as much as possible—the more we exercise this muscle, the stronger it will become—of not rushing. So the more you learn to live in stillness, in quietness, in not rushing, in patience, the stronger it will become. And the development of trust will happen more and more because every time you trust God in this way, your relationship in your heart with Him, your bond of love with Him will deepen. So those things which seem so unmanageable today may seem like pure grace over a period of time.

But if you're going to be impatient, if you're going to be entitled, if you're going to be rushing, then we are exercising the wrong muscle, which is to rush into Maya, take it to be more and more real. And the more real you take it, the more real it seems. The more real you take God, the more real He is, you see. So the more unreal you take Maya to be, the more unreal it becomes. But every time you fall for it, you are losing. You know, in a way, it's like impulse control. The more you give into Maya, the more tempting it will become, from the voice of experience. So just be patient with God because He knows the timeline much better than you. So in every life situation which concerns you, we don't have to be proud. We don't have to pose as some special spiritually enlightened one or any nonsense like that. If it concerns you, bring it to God. And in that way, then our unceasing prayer doesn't break. You may go from the prayer of quiet to a verbal prayer to even just a conversation, but your unceasing prayer is not broken because your intention still has been to keep God at the center of your life.

So what is the problem in doing this? It is just a rushing. Just our rushing. 'I need to resolve it quickly' gets in the way and we don't actually release it to God because we want things our way on our time. What is that? Yeah, sorry. So just last point, which is: what is that which we can't bring to God? There is nothing that we cannot bring to God. There's nothing that we can't bring to God. So then what stops us? What stops it? It's very good that you're sharing. Go ahead.

There are, and I do sometimes, I do offer it to God. Like I noted, sometimes I'm very keen to get a certain outcome for Anna, and I was able to step back recently and leave it to God. Like whatever comes, I guess in the work I'm doing with her, to be in His hands and not in mine. It's just the way it plays at the moment, it's just very... it's very demanding. So Anna might wake up at 6:00 in the morning and she might be just restless and she might run out of the house and you have to follow her. Or she might be so unstable that you might have... and she wants a car ride, so you jump out of the bed and you don't really have time to... you pray on the go and you offer on the go and you stay empty on the go, you know? But what I found is that in time, your strength, I guess, to return to yourself diminishes in a way. And also at a certain point in time, after I had a satsang with you and an interaction, I had kind of given up on myself for her, which was not very wise, I think.

And I also try because I also try to stay open and empty with her moving around, you know, and just letting manifest be as it is. And sometimes it was possible for short moments and at times not. It's just the... I guess when you become tired, maybe more energy, worrying energy and more mind energy comes in. And there is this fear to lose my children. And I... my first master, which is a Reiki master but the spiritual master as well, he said to me that on this path, the more you, I guess, deeper you go in a way, your children will be affected. I don't know the truth of that, but I see there is a temptation in it.

Okay, so let's look at something like that. 'If I was to go on a spiritual path, then yes, my children would be affected.' It is true if I was to go on a spiritual path, but in that often is the forgetting of what spirituality is. So if the spiritual path is to come into God's presence, which is spirit, and therefore spirituality must be about His presence, then anything that brings me to His presence will affect my kids, of course. But it will affect my kids in the best possible way. Unless my spiritual path is *my* spiritual path where I am the protagonist and not the sidekick. That is why in the world, and for most of us in the world, there is a big misunderstanding about the spiritual, what it means to be spiritual. Because 'I will become spiritual, I will neglect my kids.' But how can it be that to come into God's presence can lead to any inauspicious outcome?

Father, I think the meaning of what I was told was more like the children will be attacked in a way, not that I will neglect them.

But I don't believe in these things, you know. I... like I went twice in my life, I come closer to God and God is just powerless? He just, 'Okay, now my children are here, they will be attacked by all kinds of things,' but God is just, you know, God. He doesn't really care, or He doesn't really love us, or He doesn't even, you know, have time maybe, or doesn't actually even know. How will He know? There are so many of us. So the same four issues, yeah. So the minute we take these things onto ourselves, then we come back in the grip of Maya, which convinces us that Maya is so powerful. 'You better be careful, you're going to God, something will happen to your children, something will happen to your relationships.' And it can happen if we don't learn the lesson that our spiritual path is not about us, but it is about God.

And I promise you that if you make it only about God, then we never have to worry about these things because, you know, God is God. Where you... okay, let me not even... if all the darkness in the world got together, ganged up one day and became one, like one entity or something like that, for God that would still be a termite. So don't lose faith in God's power no matter what happens. If God is not operating on our timeline, which is usually our problem, then know that it is so that we grow, that we learn something in the process. We learn how to love more deeply. It is not because God can't do anything about it.

For this is also one part of the difficulty of the spiritual project. One part of the difficulty is to meet God as God, because we are too used to our human limitations and we end up putting God in the same sort of box. So when the sages have told us that He is the light of the universe, His being creates zillion universes like this and eats them up in a moment with no trouble, it is very literal. Then from that perspective, to ask the question, 'Why isn't God helping me?' That is why that day in that conversation with Georgie, these points really I feel are helpful. If we may feel He's not helping me because He doesn't really know, I'm not praying well enough, my hotline to Him is broken so He doesn't know what's happening, so that's why He's not helping me—that could be one option, but that is just not true.

The other option could be that He doesn't love me, He doesn't care enough for me. But your heart will tell you that that is impossible. The source of all love, the one to whom love is almost like His own being, His own heart—for Him not to love us is not possible. For us to think that we love or can love anywhere close to how God can love is a huge fallacy. Even our children—that He doesn't love our children a million times more than we ever could, that itself is a huge fallacy. And we are included in that, children for Him. So if His love is unquestionable, His knowing everything about us is unquestionable, His power to do whatever He wants—all is purely His will—is unquestionable. And to remember that, to think that God may have a constraint of time is just so absurd. He is the king of all that happens in time and space. Time is nothing but a plaything for Him.

So to recognize all of this, to be reminded of all of this, then deepens our faith, deepens our patience, deepens our courage in those difficult situations that life throws for all of us. And we have to move away from operating on our timeline and having faith in His timeline, because there is not a single instance in this universe of so many billion years where my idea could ever be better than God's idea. Not once.

Ananta Ji, can I say something? Yeah, because something came up really strongly now when you said this about that God is really powerful and could change anything and could help anyone, but He may just want to give the opportunity to learn from the situation. But this kind of doubt came up very strongly now because there are so many children in the world, they are suffering, they are starving, they are, I don't know, abused sexually, and there are lots of really ugly things in the world happening with children. They cannot learn from situations like this. So how can we believe this really, that God really loves us and could have the power to change things like this? So sorry about this, Ananta. Until this point, I was really with you with my heart so much and no doubt and fully with God, but with these things, always something comes up very strongly and they said, 'No, no, it's not possible if you say this.' Sorry about this.

No, no, this is a very common doubt that if you listen to anything—any culture, any religion, any tradition—take 10,000 years ago, take a thousand years ago, take today, this is one tactic which the mind has always used to create doubt in our mind for God. Like, if God really loved us, why are children suffering?

If He said He is really powerful, everything in His hand and He could do whatever He wants to do, why? And I believe for adults, for who have some consciousness, who have some grace to, I don't know, to have the chance to turn all the way towards God, they really have to suffer in a way, otherwise they cannot prove. But I don't understand about children, really. Not even about animals.

Yeah, so do this question... that's what I'm saying, that if God is so powerful, so loving, so caring, so beautiful, so faithful, then why are children suffering? Yes, that's what I'm saying. It's not a new question. It's the same question for so many thousands of years.

But there is no answer. Answer is that our mind is too limited to understand this. This is the answer. And I'm so sorry about this, I don't want to be rude or something, but I just really...

Let's turn it around for a moment. Let's just say that, okay, so because children are suffering, let's presume then that God actually has no power.

Faithful, then why are children suffering? Yes, yes, that's what I'm saying. It's not a new question; it's the same question for so many thousands of years. But there is no answer. The answer is that our mind is too limited to understand this. This is the answer, and I'm so sorry about this. I don't want to be rude or something, but let's just turn it around for a moment. Let's just say that, okay, because children are suffering, let's presume then that God actually has no power or He is not loving. What should we presume?

He doesn't know. Even He doesn't know because He's sleeping. He doesn't know. Yeah, I don't know what He knows and what He doesn't. If He would know, if He would see this... but sometimes somebody says, you know, there is some kind of path. They say God is sleeping inside somebody and when we wake up, then God is waking up inside us. And this is what I think will be in this kind of consciousness, in this timeline. I don't know. He is still sleeping and He's not aware of Himself. He sleeps.

I don't know, I don't know. So He is asleep and He is not aware what's happening in this world while we are awake, is it?

I don't know, I don't know. It's looking together.

Don't worry, don't worry. Yes, slowly, slowly we look. So, that wakefulness—that we are awake or we are alive—that comes from what? From you? From me? No, no. Okay, in a way, from all of us, which is that this presence within us which makes us alive, which makes us awake, is the Atma. It is the Satguru presence; it is God's presence. So if I am awake, that means this world is here. Then how can God be asleep? Because His presence is what brings this world to life. There is not another reason.

There must be some reason to explain this. I don't know, Ananta. What is the reason for children suffering? I don't know. If God can be unconscious or... I don't know.

That just went over that, yes. Clear? Which is that that which wakes up is whose presence? Is it my personal presence? Everything is God's presence. So, God's presence... okay, so it cannot be that God is asleep because His presence is here.

Maybe. I don't know. Guru yesterday said everything is coming from God's presence. Everything is coming from the life of God and this love generates everything. And even the Maya is from love, and He's happy with this game. It is a joy for Him. So how can it be joy for Him, this kind of game?

Yeah, so let's see that first. That part about God being asleep is gone. So God is here. Yes, God is here. If He's here, then He must not care enough—is that what you mean?

I don't know what is the... I cannot answer this. I don't know. But I don't see the reason. I don't see the answer. No, nothing is the answer. This is not the answer either.

Okay, okay. So suppose that God said to us, instead of us saying to God, "Why are children suffering?" Suppose God said to us, "Why are children suffering?"

Sorry, Ananta, I don't know.

I just... let's look at it again. So let's say that, yes, are children suffering because people are remaining in God's presence, or they are going with their ego and their selfishness and their all kind of... but slowly, slowly, slowly. Yes. Can you make someone suffer if you are remaining in God's presence?

No.

So then, can you remain in God's presence, or do you choose separation for yourself? Or are you forced to do it by God?

No, I cannot be separated from God if I am in God's presence. But this is still not... I'm getting there.

Yes. Do you have to go for a meeting or something?

No, no. Sorry, I'm sorry.

No, no, absolutely. So, in God's presence, we can choose. In this moment, I can choose to go with separation, hate, anger, pride—all of these things—or I can stay with God in His presence. Yes?

Yes, yes, yes.

So, and that ability exists for everyone in humanity. Not for the animals and not for the children; they have no choice. Suppose, suppose, suppose that... you know, we don't really know that, but children are not making children suffer. So I'm saying, okay, even if you buy your premise that not for children, but for all the ones who are making children suffer, this is a possibility. Yes?

Yes, yes.

Now, what do you feel when you are in God's presence? Do you spread love, kindness, compassion? Or do you spread suffering, trouble, ignorance, pride?

It's all love and peace and joy. And even behind, I don't even can understand and explain what this is. Why? I don't know why.

Very good. So now, do you feel like if you were in God's presence and stayed with Him in the innocence of a child, you could ever intentionally make any child suffer?

Never ever. No, it's not possible, Ananta.

None of us could. None of us. No, no, no, no. Exactly. Now, if I forced my children... now, this is a separate point which will connect to this, okay? And then it will all add up. So, I've taken this example often: if I force my son, biological son, and biological daughter every day in the morning to come and tell me, "Papa, I love you," then could I really trust that love?

Not really.

Yes. But if they came themselves, and they were in a busy day, lots of things were happening in their life, their boyfriends or girlfriends are fighting with them, all kinds of things are happening, and still they came to me and said, "Papa, I love you," would that be beautiful or no?

Yeah, it would be more.

Yes. In the same way, do you feel like God has made us robotic where our love for Him is controlled by Him in that way? Or has He given us the ability as children to pick Him over separation? Yes, He's given the chance for us, for adults, because we have the chance to choose. Very good. And that is the part where we get confused, where everything happens in God's will, and yet within the fact that everything happens in God's will, He gives us the possibility to make the choice to pick God, to pick love over separation. Yes? So now here we are, where every human being has been given the possibility to pick love. Even if they've never heard the concept of God, they know love in their heart and they can remain in love. But they can also go with pride, anger, resentment—all of these things.

Yes. I don't know if everybody gets the chance to choose, because somebody maybe never heard about God, never had...

That's why I said that maybe they've never heard of the concept of God. Sorry, yeah. Through their childhood, through growing up, they have the experience of love and know that somewhere... just like every child also knows that to tell the truth is better than to tell a lie. Faces show immediately when a child is lying, you see? They can't hide it because they know somewhere that to tell the truth is better. In the same way, every one of us knows that to love is better than to hate, to be kind...

Must know, yeah. We must, we do know.

And that is what... so God has built this. Where does this come from? That everyone in the world, even children, know it is better to tell the truth than to lie, to be kind than to be hurtful? Everyone knows this from somewhere. Where does it come from?

From the heart. From your heart.

Exactly. So everybody has been given this moral compass, this beautiful compass. Whether you call it conscience, whether you call it right and wrong, this primal knowledge is there in all of our hearts. And God has put it there. All of us have this from God. It is universal because it is not human; it comes from somewhere which is beyond human, you see? A parent has to tell their child, of course, but a child knows somewhere deep that truth is better than a lie, kindness is better than unkindness, you see? So God has put this in all of us. You see, He's given us the choice to love Him or to live in this Maya, live in this separate way. While everything continues to be in His will—which don't try to understand only that part, don't try to understand for a moment, okay? Now, given that He's created all of this, and trouble and suffering for children can only happen when we pick separation, unkindness, and pride over love, over God, over truth, over peace, over compassion, over all of the good things, you see? Then is it us who should be asking Him why children are suffering, or is it Him who should be asking us why children are suffering?

This is a very difficult question, Ananta.

I know, I know. So we would rather put God in that difficult question rather than putting ourselves in that difficult question. I'm going to help you, don't worry. This... I mean, for example, if somebody has so much scar in their life, so much pain, so much abuse by the time they were children, and they even forgot about the heart space, about the love, they don't find it anymore. They can't see it anymore because there is so much level on it of these painful things they had in their life. They don't see if God... and even the ego is in the hands of God. Yeah, even everything is His will.

Yes, let's stretch this a little further. I feel like we are getting somewhere. So now we have seen that He has not forced us to pick love, because that forced love would not really be love at all. It'll be like me forcing my children to say, "Papa, I love you," which is meaningless because it is just robotic, isn't it? But He has given that potential in all of us to have picked love. And also, over and over—I don't know how familiar you are with Indian spirituality—but over and over, when human greed, pride, and selfishness has crossed all boundaries, He Himself has come to show us how to be, how to live, what is the right way, in the form of Ram, Krishna, Jesus, in all of these, and in the form of great sages. He has shown them the way. So He has set the example also thousands and thousands and thousands of times in every culture, every tradition, every part of the world. The role models, the benchmarks are there for us to follow in every situation. So just let me expand on this point a bit, so that is why it's so beautiful when we look at these things. When He came as Ram, when He came as Krishna, then He actually said that, "I'm going to eradicate this place of all these people who just live in separation and are going to spread separation and they basically become completely close-hearted and evil," you see? Then when He came as Jesus, He said that, "I will show them an even different way," which is to say that, "I will bear," you see? Like a parent would say, "Give me all the afflictions which actually belong to my children because of everything, all their diseases, all their afflictions, may it all come on me," you see? Like many times we do, we say to our biological children, where we say that, "May all your afflictions come on me." God Himself came and showed us that even that He did for everything. For all our times of picking separation, He said, "I will bear the brunt of it and you all start on a clean slate," you see? So when He came in that way, He did that also. So He's come, He's freed the world from so-called bad people so many times. He's come, He showed us also that in His love He can forgive everyone and take on all the afflictions of the world onto Himself. He's shown us even that. Now I feel, after having done all of this so many thousands of times, I feel like He should ask each of us that, "My child, I've given you the possibility to pick love, to pick Me in your heart, pick love in your heart. I've given you the ability to help children. Why are there children still suffering in the world?"

Ananta, I don't want to be... I don't know. It's very true what you say, but from the others... sorry, something is coming strongly for me, this line of discussion.

So let's look at it this way. If you were to say that it is too difficult, there are millions of suffering children, there are wars, there are dictators, there's trouble, there's nuclear arms, all kinds of horrible things are happening in the world, so I can't... who, little old me? We can't rid this world of suffering children, I mean, help this world of suffering children. So then God has showed...

Something is coming strongly for me in this line of discussion, so let's look at it this way. If you were to say that it is too difficult—there are millions of suffering children, there are wars, there are dictators, there's trouble, there's nuclear arms, all kinds of horrible things are happening in the world—so little old me, we can't rid this world of suffering children, or help this world of suffering children. So then God has showed us: can we help one? Can we help one suffering child? We can do that. We really do. So really, then it becomes projection where we are projecting—and I'm not saying this for you, I'm just saying this for humanity—that we are projecting our lack of living in love, caring for our brothers and sisters and children, our lack of doing all of that, we are projecting that onto our Godly Father who has given us every opportunity to do that which we want Him to do. He's given us every opportunity to do that at least for one child that we want Him to do, and yet we don't, you see? And maybe this is the lesson that we all have to learn.

There is so much more that I can do. For New York, for example, where we went and there are 800 people who live there with at least 100 children who live there, we only scratched the surface of what we can do. There is so much more that we can do. I can pick love, service, kindness, putting them over my tiny needs. I can do that so much more. I can make myself a lot more uncomfortable than I have been doing to help those little children and those people who have been picked up from the streets and helped in this beautiful way. That is also part of my lifetime project that I have to deepen in my service. So rather than projecting this on God, I feel like it would be better for all of us if we made a difference to the life of at least one child, at least bring a smile to one child's face every day. Can we do that? And after we've done that for ten years, then maybe we can bring it to God and say, 'You're unfair, You don't know what You're doing, You're probably asleep, or You don't love us enough.'

Yes, I love that. Thank you.

Thank you. It's a beautiful contemplation and it's good to go through it like this and really check within our hearts what we know to be true. If the only way God could make this world beautiful is by forcing us to be robotic and then enforcing kindness, then that would not be kindness at all. If the only way we would take care of ourselves is if He made us, then what are we learning? How are we growing? How are we learning to live in God's life? And someone said, 'Why don't you just give a more direct answer?' So the more direct answer is that God's Will and God's functioning is way beyond what we can ever fathom. I feel like if anyone reads the Book of Job, they'll get that understanding very clearly. To put ourselves on par with God and to, in fact, put ourselves in judgment of God is a really strong position we are taking. At least I don't feel myself qualified enough, anywhere qualified enough, to do that—to question the very life which shows up in our heart, which gives us breath and aliveness, but not in a scientific way, as a living presence, as the Atma itself.

We must not be quick to judge, especially quick to judge God, because we may feel very good about it in the world while it seems like He's hidden and Maya seems so true. But my feeling in the heart is it's not going to last too long like that. This dream will be over soon. Then that audience of one which we've neglected all our lives, maybe we'll have an audience with that one if you're lucky. Okay, good, my child, don't worry. I feel like it's very good that all of us went through this slowly because I wanted to go through slowly on this, because otherwise it's very easy to miss the point.

If you look back at our history, we'll see that God has done much more than any worldly father would ever do for this world, especially in all the grief. Every time He came, He had to encounter so much grief, and then He did not have the cheat code to say, 'I will come, but I am God, so I won't be hurt.' You see? 'I'm like Superman multiplied by a zillion,' you see? He didn't come in that way. That is the concept of the incarnation, which is full man and full God. When He came as Ram, all the pain He felt was real, as real as it feels for us. All the grief that they experienced was real, as real as it is for us. Otherwise, what kind of role model would that be? That would be no role model if they did not feel the grief.