What Is It That We Can Confirm, Without Perception? - 2nd July 2021

So let's innocently, just the same way that you've been continuing, we are looking for that which is beyond the realm of perception. Now, in the usual traditional worldly way, that's an absurd question. But in satsang, it's not an absurd question. It is a fundamental question, you see. So if I was to ask you: are you aware now?

Yes.

Okay. So what you are confirming—and try as much as possible not to give it to the mind, just let the conversation flow from the heart—so what you actually confirmed to me in that simple "yes" is that there is a you that is aware, you see. Now, this you, did you see it as a perception?

No, it's already there. Just need to close the window here. There we go. No, I didn't see it. It was, and yet it's not something that you're just making up. No. So it's not conceptually, just conceptually coming, "Yes, the world is round" or something. It is clear. It is more tangible than worldly tangible. It feels weird because it feels invisibly tangible.

Invisibly, exactly. Untangibly tangible or something like that. Yes, yes. Beautiful, beautiful. So invisibly tangible and also invincibly tangible, you see. It cannot be hurt by anything that appears and disappears. So you are aware. There's a you that is aware. Now, is there another you?

No.

Okay. Now, if you had to pose as if you are another you, what do you have to do? Is the posing possible just organically, just like that?

What it feels like is, it feels like I'm not that and you are not—right, sorry. It feels like you are not what you like, the recognition, but it also feels like I'm not that. I'm not—sorry.

When you see it feels like, can you define that further? What do you mean by "feels like"?

I think I'm just identifying with the body in the perception now. So some sensations are there.

You see, are they them? Is the appearance of those sensations itself making you identify?

No.

Then what do you have to do?

Well, it feels like all the forms and objects that appear, they are really auditioning as a crew for my attention.

Yes, yes. The attention keeps going to the different sensations or thoughts or emotions or whatever. Yes, so good. So let them audition and let attention also go to them. Don't have to try and hold on to your attention. So let attention also go to it and see now, just by the virtue of attention, are you identified?

No, not identified.

So you have to do some more work to identify, isn't it?

Yeah. Not doing a good enough job of identification at the moment.

So what will you have to do? Is taking office, it's getting ready, "I'm going to identify." Well, now it's called the hot seat, right? Yeah, it really got hot there for a while.

Is a discovery possible which is independent of perception and ideas? You see, now some say maybe it's not so clear. Can we check? So we started talking and I said, "Are you aware now?" and the confirmation came, "Yes." Now remember that it's not the word "yes" which is important; it is the recognition which leads to the speaking of the word "yes." The word could be any language; it is not in the word itself, you see.

So that's fine. Then we say that, okay, now for you, because you say "I am aware," are you aware now? Say yes. So there is a you that is aware. And we say, is there another you? And in the light of pure looking, we notice there is no other me. Then a response came saying, "But it feels like I am this perception or a set of perceptions called the body." You see, now we are just trying to experiment and see that just by in the perceiving of them, does identification happen? And you notice that no, in the perceiving of them, identification is not happening. So I need to do even more work. I need to engage in more effort than just attention. So what would that effort be if you had to identify with some sensation or perception?

It feels like I go into a position where I take myself to be the point, okay, the perspective from the sensation of the body or something like that.

Yes, but how do you do that? Just with attention, can you do it? Try to do it just with attention. Just, I already tried it at the perception hard enough. So then you feel like you are that? Tell me if it happens. We are going really slowly at this because this is the fundamental.

Not now. Not happening now. No. It still feels big, but there's something that is much, much vaster also.

Yes, yes, yes. So both are perceived: that which is very big and this seeming space in which even that is arising, you see. Even that is perceived as space, you see, within which something is arising. But that which witnesses both, in what way is that involved? Is there a way for that to be involved? Is there a contact point between that which watches? So we see the sensation and there's a space in which these sensations are coming. The space is much vaster, of course. Your being is vast, unlimited, you see. But awareness is aware of the sensation, the perception, and also the vast space. And is there a contact point, you see? Or is there a way in which the awareness can actually become an element of this play of space-time or an element of this play of perception?

It only seems. But what do you have to do to make it seem so? A set of perceptions has to appear first which carry a message or a notion, and attention has to go to that. That's what Guruji is talking about, that they'll come auditioning for your attention. So attention has to go to that, and then the ability that consciousness has to make a notion seem real—it's called belief—or seem true, it's called belief, you see. But 100% of these notions are false. You said 100%.

So funny thing, what happened when you said, "I perceived the space and the body that appears within that space, but I'm not either of them." And when you say that, it feels like I come to my eyes. Yeah, it's like, "Okay, but what am I then?" And then it goes to the—like when you say the pure perception, it goes to my—it feels like I go back into my head for some reason automatically. I actually wanted to bring this up before.

Yes, and that's fine, because as you're coming to these insights, attention sometimes can get focused on various—sometimes it can go here, center of the forehead, sometimes it can go on the throat, it can go above the head, it can play all of this. But the fact remains that whatever attention may be on, what attention is reporting back to has remained unchanged. So it's not that you have gone—it's not that you have changed your location. It is the content of your attention which has changed, which can make it seem like, "Oh, it is fixated now in my head" or "It is fixated on some other part." But it's just another perception. Yeah.

Yes, yes.

All perceptions are just another perception, just like every thought is just another song, you see. So the idea is not to try and derive any meaning out of that. The idea is to stay with our contemplation, which was: that which is aware of all of this, that which is aware of all of this, is that my true nature? Is that my true reality?

So used to objects.

Yes, yes, that's fine. Objects will appear in attention. So remember, this is not a fight for attention. Attention can be completely free, you see. It is just letting go of false notions, which means that whatever may be perceived, we allow the interpretations to come and go without grasping any of them. Because without that process, you cannot take yourself to be something limited or phenomenal. Yes.

So in this way, we so simply come to the recognition of what we are, and also we start letting go of the false conditioning of vasanas which seem to keep the momentum of false identification alive. And both can only happen now. You cannot plan your way into this. You cannot. So observing from a distance, I could say, "Yes, Sebastian is going through a beautiful process of the conditioning being emptied out and deepening in the Self-identification." But the one in the seeming process, for that one, there is no process. It is all just now.

Yes, yes, yes.

You see, because that becomes very tricky. So is there a process? Is there an unfolding, or is this instantaneous, you see? So while you're in the process, it's instantaneous, you see. But as an observer of that aspect of consciousness, you see, somebody could say, "Oh, this one is going through a beautiful process of unburdening or opening up." You cannot drop your conditioning in the past or the future, and you cannot recognize yourself in the past or future. Thank you.

So welcome back. So welcome.

And all of you, because I'm noticing some questions, all of you remember that there is an aspect of the mind which is the mind reporter, you see, which is like the meta-mind, you know, the mind that is reporting on the state of the mind itself. "Now my mind is doing this, now my mind is doing that," you see. And we become enamored with it, with this mind reporter, because it's a new sort of way of being. Most of the world is just enamored with the mind, but as spiritual seekers, because we are...

Welcome back, and all of you, because I'm noticing some questions. All of you remember that there is an aspect of the mind which is the mind reporter, you see, which is like the meta-mind, you know? The mind that is reporting on the state of the mind itself. 'Now my mind is doing this, now my mind is doing that,' you see. And we become enamored with it, with this mind reporter, because it's a new sort of way of being. Most of the world is just enamored with the mind, but as spiritual seekers, because we realize that the mind is so tricky and sneaky, we then become enamored by the sneakiness and the trickiness of the mind. And then that aspect of it becomes central to our spiritual seeker identity, and it feels like it is helping us, but actually it is just the mind.

I just realized you tricked me into having to make a transcript now. Those who I call on don't have... nice. It's good, it's good, it's all good. Also, it's my birthday tomorrow, so...

Oh, I see. My birthday gift. So thank you very much. Really good. All my love, all our love and blessings to you, and you have the most auspicious day full of Guruji's grace and blessings, which I know are there with you. All have a wonderful, wonderful birthday tomorrow. And if you're there till the end, maybe we do a little bit of song for you at the end. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Love you all. Good. So we're all on this now.

Now I want to see, before I go to the questionnaires—and I'm making the transcript shorter, so don't feel bad, actually your work is getting easier today because I will reset all this anyway—so for the rest of you, now is it clearer, the recognition of that which is unperceivable? Do you feel like... those who feel like it's still not clear? Rebecca was making a hand movement which I didn't get. Was it a yes or no?

No, no movement. Okay, everyone's clear. Yes, but on the same thing. Yeah, so when you ask the question, are they two? This is completely different from that mean.

So one experiment for that is: what are you unchangingly? So I'll give you a tip. So if you can jump out of yourself and be in anything and not be there, yeah, then you could say, 'Okay, there are two of me, sometimes like that, sometimes like this.' But if one is steady and stable and the others just seem to come and go, you see, then there must be just waves on this ocean, on the surface of this ocean, which is also in reality my own self, but it does not contain me. So I cannot jump out of my reality into that. So see, with whatever poses as if they're two, which one can you jump out of into the other one? So you would say, 'Okay, if there's awareness and that, then there's a potential for me not to be aware but just be that.' So that awareness way... I mean, it's so unknown.

Yes, then the Self can't go. That is Vedanta 101. Yourself can't come and go. I mean, exactly, yeah.

In your inside, it is already apparent. You see, this is just a counter for the mind, the mind's objection saying, 'But I feel like I'm this also, I'm that also.' So if there's ever an idea of duality, see if you can switch one off and just be the other. And which one is that? You see, then you can't hold you like this. This is just the absence of notions of belief in notions, yeah. But you would still stay as... you would still be aware of being aware in that sense. If in the past, then you just keep quiet. But that is the intermingling of two different spaces. The space where you are having this insight, yeah, is not the space where you can have a confusion, no? Isn't it? So stay in the space where you have the insight, you see.

So thank you, that reminds me actually, because I feel like this is a very powerful pointer which I mentioned once in satsang and then forgot about it, but I feel like it is helpful. The space—and we have to use the word space, it's not really the space space—but the place or space from which you confirm that you are aware, you see, is that the same place from which you can confirm that this is the phone? How? Which place you confirm this is a phone from? And yet, even to use the phone, you don't need the label 'phone'. And I'm looking at my phone, you don't have to do that. In pure perception, whatever knowledge is needed is inherent. So we go to the mind for the labels or the narrative, and where do you go for the confirmation of yourself as awareness? You don't go anywhere, actually. It is so organically there, naturally clear, you see.

So it is the absence of having to grasp in which our true nature is already inherently clear. Is it a complicated phrase? So in the absence of having to grasp at something, you see, is it not clear what you are? But if you want what you are to mean something, then you will struggle. Listen carefully, okay? What you are is inherently apparent to you without having to grasp for anything at all. But if you want what you are to mean something, you see, which means to do something for you—if there is any selfishness about it—then it will seem forever elusive because you cannot put this in any mold, in any shape. You cannot put this in the narrative of time. You cannot say, 'I am free now, so then how should I behave or what should my life be like?' All of those are nonsensical ideas.

Once the wave discovers that everything is the ocean, what should happen to the wave? It was never the wave in reality. Substance was always the ocean itself. It is the false ignorance of identification as a wave which you let go of, not so that I can use the ocean knowledge to become a better wave. 'Oh, now that I know I'm the ocean, how can I go higher as a wave?' The metaphor fits quite well for the spiritual desire. It fits quite well for spiritual desire because many times we are just hoping that the discovery of the ocean will make us a stupendous wave. It just doesn't play out that way. Okay, so let's go to what question can remain. Let's hear Praharsh. Namaste.

Namaste. I had a very pressing question a couple of days back maybe, but as soon as satsang started, I realized it's pretty transactional and way too stupid. But now, I don't know if I have exactly one question, but maybe you can clarify this. When I say, when you place your hand and I say I can see your hand, there's something you hit me with some time back. Yes, and you said wherever the answer came from, that's me. Let's now look at it fresh, because this is probably one of my favorites.

Yes. So you are confirming to me that there is a you that is aware now. Forget perception and hand. That you and that aware, is there a difference between you and aware? Is awareness an attribute that you have? Is it something that you own? What else would you own?

Yes, it seems like it's the same, but I can't confirm that somehow because it's almost like the confirmation is coming from the trust that I have in all that I've been listening to from you and all the masters.

So very good. So throw that away for the moment.

I don't know how I should do that.

This is very good. This is very good. So if confirmation is coming from because I believe the words of the master, we don't need that. We don't need to believe any notion of it. Keep it aside. Now, without that, are you aware now?

Yes, I am.

This you that is aware, what attribute does it have? Shape, size, duration?

I can't find anything. That's right. Again, there is a tendency to go against the body, but that research has been probably done, understood. So again, but there's a lot of mental processes that pulling and pushing.

Good, but it's not that answer that I'm giving you. It's like, don't worry. So this is just an indication of trying to use the wrong instrument. So you cannot confirm this with perception and you cannot confirm this as a mental theory, anything invented in the mind. So leave those two. Let whatever is happening in those two happen. Don't worry about that, you see. That awareness, what is its size? Don't try to perceive the size of it. Don't try to think about its size. Is there another? As you let go of the false, what is apparent? All questions that are truly worthwhile can only be answered from there. Who are you? Are you aware? What is aware of your being? Who exists? What is truth? What is love? All of this, the answer can only come when we are empty of our dependence on concepts and perception.

But for a while it will seem like, or can seem like, those answers are not translatable into words, are not translatable into communication, and which is fine. So stay there. And 'stay there' only means that it's not to stay with attention; it only means don't run to the shelter of words. Don't run to the shelter of words or perceptions when you are empty of them.

What's going on is one, this train of thoughts, and then there is an effort to stop the train of thoughts.

That is again a train of thought. Yeah, good, good, well spotted. But I am really asking: what is beyond your perception? What is not in your perception? You see, in our perception we are well aware of that, that there's the appearance of the world, there's the sensations of this body, there's this twittering mind, there can be emotion sensations. All of that we are aware of, what the realm of perceptions contain. Now, what is that which is not in this realm? And more important than any answer itself is where you will go for the answer, right? And you can't go to the mind or to any object which is in your attention. And you can go, but it will not give you an answer. For a while it can seem like, 'But I'm finding nothing.' Don't worry. Find the nothing which is not translatable even into the word 'nothing'. Neither something nor nothing, because both those are just in the intellect and perception.

So let's try again. Are you aware now?

Yes.

How is that clear?

It's just clear. It just is.

So that same way in which that is clear, let life also unfold like that. That is to trust your heart or to trust your intuition. Very, very, very good. Let's go to... okay, let's go to Gemma.

I was not sure because I was thinking what to say, but what happened is that I'm in a state that is mixed with the duality, of course, because in my bipolar—this is what they say, bipolar—and I went into a depression state. So what happened is that now I'm aware that I'm here, but I'm most of the time afraid of life because my life, what is true is that I have no family or kids to take care of, I have no work, I have no activities, I have no friends. And it's like, what am I doing here? And then I feel afraid because I don't want to stay like this. I don't know what to do. I just moved to another place and I don't know anything. And it's a part of what the doctor says. Yesterday I went to the doctor and he says, 'You are very depressed, very depressed.' So the pills, more pills. And then it confronts all the time with the pointings because I say, 'Okay, who is the one who is afraid? Or who is the one who is depressed?' or whatever. And actually, what exists? If I'm awareness, do I have to stay all the time with this in front and take it, you know, or something like this?

Okay, thank you. Thank you for that question. So you as awareness is independent of the play of the body-mind called Gemma, which is happening in the world of perception. So that play of the body-mind can be in any way. There is no way to predict the play of consciousness, how it is going to go. Because if we could predict everything that it is going to do, then it would be a very boring play. It would not be a fun play or a Leela. So the Leela is completely unpredictable except in your intuition. But those who go to their intuition also find it very uncool to go to intuition to make predictions about the future. They just don't find it funny. They just like a misuse of her divinity.

So independent of the play of the body-mind organism called Gemma, do you see that your reality is as this awareness? Or is it that you as Gemma want to use your discovery of yourself as awareness to make Gemma's life better?

I would like to really see that I am awareness and see that completely.

But those who go to their intuition also find it very uncool to go to intuition to make predictions about the future. They just don't find it funny. They just feel like it's a misuse of her divinity. So, independent of the play of the body-mind organism called Gemma, do you see that your reality is as this awareness? Or is it that you, as Gemma, want to use your discovery of yourself as awareness to make Gemma's life better?

I would like to really see that I am awareness and see that completely—that the body-mind is maybe part of the objects and the play. But I'm not sure I see completely awareness like this. And what happened is like I live obviously as Gemma lives, as I'm freezing, and I pray to please make me do something because I don't even know what to do. Like, that's why I'm freezing now. I'm all the day in the house doing nothing. Thank you.

So let's stay with the first part first of what you said, and then we come to the second part. The first part of what you said is that, 'I want to be clear that I am this awareness and I want to see that this is Gemma.' Yes? So let's do that today and see if the second part is still there. So right now, are you aware?

How I understand aware, I am aware, yes. If not, I couldn't answer you.

Yeah. So just to make sure we are on the same page, you are aware of the perception of this hand here?

Yes.

So that 'you' that is aware, tell me something about that 'you'.

There's nothing to tell because the only thing I can say, I can think, is that the brain has the possibility to go to the mouth and say and answer. But this is science, and because I have these things in there. But if not, I don't know who is answering and I don't know what is this.

So, very well articulated. So we are not going to refer to any learnt knowledge. We are just going to speak from what is obvious in our present experience. So that which is aware, how do you confirm that it is you?

Because if I have another person, it's not the other person who is answering. It's this person who is answering through this awareness, I guess.

Yes. Well, let's look at that a little deeper. So I often say, is it your neighbor's report that you're making? But really, it's not personal. Like, 'person' would mean limitation. A person would mean that there's a set limitation, there's an idea, all of these things. But your confirmation of yourself as awareness is independent of everything else, isn't it? It doesn't depend on what perception there may be, whether it's hand or food or phone. You see, that which is aware, that 'you' which is aware, remains the same, isn't it?

But it's, I guess, because the only way to confirm, as we know how to confirm, is saying 'I am aware.' And like, I cannot say I'm aware when I'm sleeping, and I'm aware when I wake up, no? Because I am aware because the body is moving and I can pronounce things, I can smell, I can... like as the body, of course.

Yes. So again, like I was saying in the beginning, it is not the process of the communication that is so important. It is the recognition that I am aware. So whether you say 'yes' or you say 'si' or you say whatever, it doesn't matter. The word and how it comes from and what conditions are needed for that word to come, that is not of interest to us at the moment. It is just: how do we make this recognition? Just like we say, 'Okay, what is the color of this object in my hand?' How would you see? Yeah? So what happens, you see, there's a particular perception and then in the mind you have a table which says, 'Okay, this is yellow,' and you see yellow. But are you aware now? Did you have to go through this process?

No, I'm always aware.

Yes, yes. But to recognize that, I don't have to recognize it.

Yeah, yes, yes.

So you that is always aware... now you said that in sleep I may not be. Is that what you were implying? Or was it just that I cannot communicate it because communication obviously is not possible?

Yes. So that awareness remains unchanged no matter what state is appearing, or the absence of these phenomenons which we call deep sleep. But to be aware that you are asleep, to be aware that there's a process of sleeping, maybe you were... but no, I don't.

You did not sleep last night?

No, I did. But I was not aware I was sleeping.

Okay. Then what time did you wake up?

At nine.

So to be able to tell that difference, to be able to tell the difference that 'I woke up at nine,' the witness must have witnessed both the states. Otherwise, it will just feel like, oh, suddenly it was 11:00 PM or 12:00 AM or something, and then suddenly it was 9:00 AM. But it does not feel like that. It feels like, 'I went to sleep and then I woke up and I saw the time was nine o'clock.' So what witnessed the waking up? Awareness. The 'you' as awareness witnessed the waking up. But to say that the waking state appeared, you must have been continuously there to say, 'Okay, it appeared.' Then if you want to leave, then you cannot say, 'Okay, this came.' Then you could say, 'Oh, I only came there.'

I didn't follow you now. Too much, too much.

Let's come back to now, and then we'll have fun with this a little later. So that 'you' that is aware, does it have an attribute or a quality or a shape?

No, I don't know. I don't see.

Yes. So if you as awareness had to take on a shape or to take yourself to be something in the objective appearance, what would you have to do?

To make awareness into an object, you mean? Like make yourself into an object?

To believe. Don't do that. Your mind will offer you a proposal. Every thought is a proposal from the mind, you see? You reject the proposal. Let it come and go. Okay, you want to try now?

Ah, see. So just remain open and empty and all good. Sorry, I don't understand open and empty because I feel very, very empty, but as a person now. So I think so.

Just in fact, this is the explanation for open and empty: allow all the proposals from the mind to come. So let's do this together. I just have open and empty. Open and empty. Still empty? Or bought into something?

No, I just get 'open and empty' and 'I don't understand.' And 'I don't understand,' but I was just leaving. You're just coming and going, you see? It's fine.

Okay, now do the opposite. Whichever thought comes, you have to believe it. Are you doing it?

I can do it, yes.

Okay, let's see. Tell me how many thoughts you're believing. As you believe, you say it. So you say the thought you believe.

Life is worse than death. Okay, one. This is not my life. True. What am I doing in this life? Creation. Why do I have to be like this?

You're believing also? You're just saying it with attention. You make sure you believe it properly. Yes, so three.

Well, I've been believing so many from a long time. So yeah, I've been believing it for a long time. I'm tired now.

Okay, get to twenty in the next one minute.

Twenty? He leaves. Yes, I believe life is wonderful. Thanks. I believe this is not the life I should live.

You're believing all this? All the opposite ideas also?

No, one is life, the other one is my life. Okay, okay. So life is wonderful, you believe that, but my life is not so. But my life shouldn't be the one I live. Okay, but seven. I believe in happiness, but I believe I'm not happy since too long. I believe in love, but I don't know what is love. I believe everything must be possible. Ten. Enough.

You see how much effort it is? You see how much effort it is to believe? You can see how much effort it is, no?

Yeah, yeah. It's so tired. So much, so effortful, you see.

Yeah. So it's not automatic or effortless. That is also a thought. It says, 'But to automatically...' So open and empty is much easier, okay, than believing. No? We sat for a minute just quite open and empty, and it was not tiring. It was effortless. But when the project was twenty thoughts in one minute, it seemed like a lot of work. So the great sage said that to remain motionless is easier than to crumple a petal, a flower petal. To crumple it in your hand—to remain motionless is easier than that. Very poetic expression for saying that it is effortless. Okay? And as you are open and empty, you are not confused about who you are. You are not confused about what life is.

Yeah, but like in the situation that Gemma is now, that 'what do I do?' is like sometimes I have very negative thoughts like, 'I don't want to live like this, I'll kill myself.' So I'm supposed to pray to leave all my problems at your feet? Or what I chose to do, like just to contemplate this and say, 'Well, I'm staying here and doing nothing.' And you know, for me this is very... of course, and then they say you are depressed and then they give me pills and then it's like I don't know which way to follow because it's just for me it's like a very different way. So I have to... okay, I take as a body-mind, I take my pills and then I try to... but I'm really confused. And I understand that it's the body-mind who feels confused, that it's not pure awareness, but it's like I need a private guru to...

So what's happening a little bit is a level confusion. So what I am speaking about is like an inward open and empty. Now, from this inward open and empty, you could go to a doctor or not go. You could take your medicine or not. Both are open and empty, neutral to that. So what happens is that as you are open and empty, you follow your intuition and don't fall into that spiritual trap that tells you, 'Okay, now that I am awareness, you see, the body does not need any help or medication or something like that.' That is not what I'm proposing at all. Neither am I saying that you must get a lot of medication. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that just follow your heart intuitively.

I don't know. I don't know about intuitive. I don't recognize the intuitiveness.

I'll help you with that. I'll help you with that. So what you will find is that as you are letting go of the mind, you will find a greater guidance which is available to you in your heart. If you are patient with it, you will notice that you will start to read it quite easily. And it is the same guidance which will move your feet, it will speak to the doctor, whatever has to be spoken, you see? It will come to satsang, it will do all of that. But it seems so open, it seems so easy that life... to live life doesn't seem like it's a hard work or effort or a pain. It doesn't feel like to exist is pain. 'Why do I have to wake up this morning?'—this kind of thing. And life is moving like a movie in front of you, and Gemma is the main character of the movie that seems to appear, you see? Because you see the movie through the lens of her eye, so it can seem like that is the main character that appears. But you will see that 'I am not restricted to only this one.' This is just a lens, it's an instrument through which this movie is being perceived. You just try this. Just try open and empty, and when we speak next time, you tell me if you felt like life was guiding itself or you felt like just less effort in the existence of life. Okay? What is the idea of existential sort of depression? The idea is that it's so much of a pain to even live a regular life, you know? It feels like so much of a pain, 'Why should I even bother?' These kind of ideas are prominent in that. But then it changes from that effortful sort of thing. You are sort of a play. Nobody says, 'Why do I have to play?' Every child plays. There is no reason behind playing. The child is not playing so that they become stronger or something; they just go because they enjoy it. So just like that, the whole movie will play out, including the body-mind called Gemma. So the body-mind is an aspect of yourself, you see? Don't try to represent your whole self with that body-mind. Many spiritual seekers fall into that trap: 'If I'm awareness, why should I take a pill?' or 'If I'm awareness, then how does my leaky roof affect me?' Let it rain.

There is no reason behind playing. The child is not playing so that they become stronger or something; they just go because they enjoy it. So just like that, the whole movie will play out, including the body-mind called Gemma. So the body-mind is an aspect of yourself, you see? Don't try to represent your whole self with that body-mind. Many spiritual seekers fall into that trap: 'If I'm awareness, why should I take a pill?' or 'If I'm awareness, then how does my leaky roof affect me? Let it rain on my head.' You see? 'If I'm awareness, then why does my car break down? I don't need to take it to a mechanic because I'm awareness.' So just like the car, just like the house, the body is also like a house. It's an instrument. It's not something that you are, but it is something that is appearing within the space of your being. And you are not to take a position either to over-service it or to under-service it.

Okay. Someone can do things a long time. I don't really have a question, but it feels like... these feelings. When you say also—well, I don't know the exact words—but when you say that because there is a thought doesn't mean that you have to believe it, or the feeling. No, I feel the body. So something feels like because I feel the body, I am the body.

Yes, but actually we never feel the body; we feel the feeling. Do we ever feel the body, or do we ever experience or perceive the world? Maybe I've gone too far with that; let me elaborate. So what I'm saying is you perceive a sensation, but a set of sensations collectively are not saying 'I am body, I am body, I am body.' It is the mind which takes a label and says, 'How can I understand all these set of perceptions and sensations?' You see? So there's a perception of this, then there's a perception if I pinch like that. There's a perception of that, there's a perception of this. It's already too much for the mind to handle, so the mind needs a label, which is okay: 'In your body, one hand is having some pain, the other hand has five fingers,' something like that, you see? But the sensations themselves are not saying 'I am body, I am part of your hand.' It is just being perceived. The same as every perception from the world; the perception that you have in front of you is not saying 'I am part of the world.' You see? This is how you can understand me: 'I am the world.' It's just a super sensation.

Is it same for feelings?

So feelings, sensation, perception—all perceptions finally. So what is of most interest is that with these labels, we are able to make a narrative for the non-existent 'me.' 'Oh, in my body this happened, in the world there's so much of this happening.' You see? We are able to insert these into the narratives, but we cannot insert the pure perception into any narrative. And without a narrative, you cannot take yourself to be a 'me.' You cannot take yourself to be limited without a narrative, and you cannot insert perceptions into narratives, only our labels of them.

So stopping believing the thoughts... can you say something about this? Just do the opposite of that song? When I was a child, I heard this song: 'Don't stop believing.' You stopped. It feels like something I have to understand, or we always make a meaning.

If you understand, you will be able to write a book. Unless you want to write a book, you don't have to understand, actually. Yes, so you don't have to understand.

So also this 'I have to understand for being'—it's like a negation of what I am, or something?

No, it's only a negation of your narrative. It is not a negation of what you are, only a negation of your stories about yourself. I mean, when I believe I have to understand to be, yeah, so that is a narrative. To let go of that narrative is to negate that narrative, but you are still there. Yes. Okay, let's see. This is a very good example. You believe that you have to understand to be, you see? Now, don't understand anything. Don't understand anything. Are you still?

Yes.

So for this, I tell you how to stop believing the first thought, you see? I've heard very little of Oshoji, but one interaction I remember very well. Somebody asked Osho, 'Do you believe in God?' So he said, 'I don't believe in belief.' So don't believe in belief; everything else will take care of itself. Trying to understand this... you don't understand. So, don't understand.

Okay. Now it feels like a block.

You are still understanding. Don't interpret. You see what I mean by 'don't understand' is don't interpret. Constriction, block, expansion—you don't understand any of this.

I cannot speak anything.

Don't understand that also. Okay? You've been using a safety pin to cut a potato; it's not going to work. To try and use the mind to understand truth, it's just not going to work. This is happening; you don't have to understand what is happening. Okay? To let go of the need to conceptualize what is, you see? Let go of the need to conceptualize what is. This is basically to try and understand what is happening—let go of that need. Then what happens? Because I could see in your eyes that you're okay now. I don't need that. Your mind will scream; it will say, 'But what does this mean? What does it mean?' Nothing. Don't understand anything. 'Does it mean my life is meaningless?' No, of course not. Don't understand anything, really.

They're saying that I don't know how to do it.

It's very easy. Just stop doing whatever you're doing. That's it. How do you know you're doing nothing?

You understand that? I feel like I'm doing nothing because the thoughts I'm not producing, or it's like it appears by itself. So you say open and empty, and it's like I don't know. Don't understand what it is, because you may feel like effortlessly, and I understand this. You may even see, 'I see this is it.'

What is not this? Any conceptual version of life or the word or truth or self is just not up to the mark, you see? It's not up to its reality.

There is conclusions that comes. How you know? Like it feels like because this is for this... what do you mean? The thought appears?

Yeah, let it go.

There is more conclusion that comes.

Like everything that comes, goes, unless you want to hold on to it. Yeah, let it go. Don't become a concluder about the mind—that this is what the mind does, this is what the mind says. That is also the mind which is posing as the reporter on the mind. So we're not going to the next level of the mind; we are letting go of the mind. But better is if you don't understand anything. Okay, let's go to Paula.

Thank you, Father. I've been laughing since last satsang since I spoke. I think she stopped laughing, bro. She's in some deep meditative states. Because it's so funny, so much fun. I feel everything is being washed away, washed away. And thank you, thank you so much. I see this identity thing, and I've never seen the identity actually, I have to be honest. Have you seen that entity? What does it look like? I don't know, I don't know. But when it comes, it feels like—I don't know—it feels like or seems like the narrative, or there is something to be done, or there is something to be desired, there is some duality, all these 3D ideas we have. So it is the play of Maya.

Like this, some of it will continue to come. It's all right.

Yes, yes, and yes. It will come.

And that 'me' is yours. It's yours; it's definitely your problem. Okay? And the rest of it is not only that one; the rest is your joy and your love that there is you. So sound like a good deal? Yes, everything is yours. I love you so much. Just allow the surrender. It's good. It's good enough. Very good. Thank you. Okay, let's go to Laurence. I mean, I'm not sure I'm still pronouncing her name correctly, but it's not difficult to pronounce. Bring your sounds. Oh God, it's so much fun. It's going to be, yes. Oh voila, which is that's it. I lived in the Middle East. How am I going to transcript this job with the first one? So it was going to be a very serious question, actually, but the asking for a blessing and even, let's say, go ahead, as there has been this opportunity that it feels is only going to be seized with your blessing and go ahead. To be honest, it's an opportunity to talk on internet, over internet. How to explain? It's like this, it is called the community of abundance. Abundance, yes, abundance. Anyhow, it's a space where people do come and share. But so there's been this opening and there's been this applying there, and of course it started raising sort of questions. And so here it is, because of course this one has been blessed with your choosing to heal and to guide through this one. So of course this... but until now it's been only one-to-one, and there's been avoiding to be too much seen, especially to be on the internet. And suddenly, well, it's like a conference. It starts with like a guided meditation, which is something that was never done here for a group. It's what comes more and more in one-to-one appointments, actually.

As abundance, are they organizing an event?

No, it's not an event. It's on internet always. And the way it's done is there is one first intervention, and the one person is going to talk and to share about something, and then they will propose for people to pay, actually, a small fee, but still there is paying. And then it's like those who want to deepen in what has been shared can. And well, it's true that there has been this really, there's always this wanting to share, and this one has been put to almost a complete stop for a year and a half. And really it's a blessing since, let's say, in one-to-one guidance, still the same tools are used but somehow very differently, can I say? And so the idea here was to share about self-observation, the power of self-observation. The reason to really feel like asking for blessing is because even in one-to-one appointment, what comes will be like guidance towards pure perception and the words from the invitation would come, or things that have been shared in satsang. And there's very often this... I don't know how to say.

I don't know, I get a sense. I get a sense of what you think. My full blessing is with you. My full blessing is with you. And just share from your heart, pointing to the highest that you are discovering. The words will never meet what your discovery is like, but as long as they are in resonance with that in some way, my full blessing is always with you and guide your words.

Yes. A letter was written to Guruji as well. It's really because there wouldn't be... this life truly is for truth. And so it felt like if any... because there would be a few resistances before coming up here, and even whilst the letter was being written, it's this was a... and that doesn't make sense. I mean, or at least it's got to be overcome or whatever. And okay, so it was also checking, just checking if it was... if by any chance you would have said it's too soon or whatever, that would be stopping.

I'm not really looking at that through that filter at all. Okay? The blessing is that you are just open, empty, positionless, and allowing your heart to do the speaking. It is, it is. The few times when I said no to something like this is when I feel like there's a tendency to make a position out of it, like 'now I'm this' or something, you know? And so, but with you, I feel like it's quite light and open and you'll be fine. Okay? Yes, truly, actually, one-to-one and one-to-whatever, it's the same. It's... so okay. Thank you so much. So much love.

Okay, yes. I will add this: there is so much gratitude for this lightness and this laughter that pops up. It was so present until I was a teenager and somehow it got lost in whatever.

It's when I feel like there's a tendency to make a position out of here, like, 'Now I'm this' or something, you know? And so, but with you, I feel like it's quite light and open and you'll be fine. Okay, yes, truly, actually, one-to-one and one-to-whatever, it's the same. It's, um... so okay, thank you so much, so much love. Okay, I will add this: there is so much gratitude for this lightness and this laughter that pops up. It was so present until I was a teenager and somehow it got lost in whatever, blah blah blah. Yes, so thank you, thank you, thank you. Love you so much. And you'll get the pronunciation absolutely perfectly. I'll come up just to check, but it's more fun like this. Thank you.

Okay, let's go to see... this one is the other one I always mispronounce. Lila? Yes, it's Lila.

Hello. Um, I am on the same subject of the health. So, something... there is a condition that this body was discovered that's very upsetting. It's very, it's very hard for me to get out of the identity. There's a condition that my doctor didn't tell me, but when I looked up the condition, I found it has a very high increase in the risk of cancer. Very, very high. And um, I've asked to go to a specialist and—

Sorry, did you look it up on Google?

Yes, but I only went to reputable... I really did. And it's, um... I don't think my doctor even—

Sorry, sorry, my dear. I was just saying to somebody—I just wanted to, before I forget—it's quite funny because just yesterday to someone I was saying that if someone goes with a small something and they look it up on Google, they will end up believing that they have some life-threatening conditions, no?

I know, yeah. This seems... it's quite verified. And the more I've gone to look for, hoping that it said it had a five percent chance to be cancer at some point, but then I looked it up to find out in more detail, trying to feel better or maybe it's not that bad, I found it's actually much worse for my age and other conditions. It's actually worse. But I've just been so pulled into that and pulled into... I think my doctor is not going to even speak to me anymore because I can't seem to just not follow the panic. But I'm also... yeah, and I have not been successful at being open and empty. But also my family, my children, have encouraged me to go to therapy, to find a therapist to work. And I'm, you know... well, I don't want to encourage the person or whatever, but I found... I've been in therapy so much before, I just didn't want to go back to that. But the sort of idea of... I've been trying to stay with the fear, or stay because I don't seem to be able to avoid the fear, the anxiety and the fear, and try to go into pure perception. But I don't seem to be able to stay with just pure perception and not just fall for the urgency of this matter needing to be dealt with now. And um, but I've also tried to kind of feel that there's a presence that's there for me, but I don't seem to be able to... it seems like I either can go to the 'me' or... oops, I don't seem to be able to go to the 'me' or the presence. It seems like I can't have these two at the same time. Like, there's either God or the... I don't seem to be able to hold the fear as present. I don't seem to be able to get back. But also, I just wanted to check in. I don't know if you can give me any feedback at all about two sessions with a therapist who kind of wants to go into re-parenting the inner child type thing? And I'm like, 'No, no.' And you know, to take a role as a parent and then speak to the child and have a dialogue. And I just... I don't know if I can do that. But there's a desperation to have some kind of solace and to feel held. And I don't know if that's it. I guess maybe that's all. Thank you.

Thank you for sharing that. And with the spirit of such lightness and humor as you shared that report, I'm sure that in the midst of it, it may seem a lot heavier, but I appreciate the way you—

That's funny it came across as light. Yeah, that's interesting. Sometimes I actually say it out loud... sometimes it doesn't seem as serious once it's said out loud. If it's just held inwardly, it can feel very heavy. Sometimes to just expose it is helpful.

Yeah, let me pick up on some of the straws which show up here. So one of the things—and we've been talking about level confusion a bit with the previous question—where we can feel like if some speed is being displayed or the so-called urgency is being displayed in the life of one aspect of consciousness, then it can feel like, 'No, no, I'm taking myself too personally' or something, 'I'm not that.' It's completely possible to be full of speed in consciousness while being completely empty. And it is completely possible to be just chilling out while the world is going crazy around us. Both are possible, and what is going to happen we cannot really predict. So you cannot really gauge your true inner openness based on what the body-mind is displaying, because in a state of pure openness, you could be at war, actually, you know? It doesn't feel open and pure; it feels completely absorbed in because there's a lot of judgment that happens based on how the body is moving and what that means for your spiritual state, in a way. So being empty of those judgments itself could help you remain more open. What I'm saying is, wanting to get away from it, wanting to escape it, wanting to have it all be solved, wanting to solve all of it so that I'll be free... to come to an intellectual resolution, like wanting it to be solved will be solved. Like in our head, we feel like, 'Okay, now this is the problem, this is the solution, I looked up on the internet, we took this and this is, you know, I'm at some peace.' And that is what many of us really want when we are troubled with something. But actually, I found that the ability to leave ourselves unresolved is really so beautiful, you see? And these are opportunities where these very strong-seeming situations can come and there's no solution coming from anywhere, you see? We speak to a doctor, it doesn't seem to help. We speak to Ananta, it doesn't seem to help. Google it, it doesn't seem to help. You see? So many times, life puts us in this situation where our conceptual idea of what the problem is is not getting resolved, you see? We're just looking for a set of notions which can neutralize those troublesome notions, yeah, and then we can be at peace. But sometimes those neutralizing ones don't show up, you see? And when they show up, they're not believable anyway; they just sound like words of reassurance.

Or also just to say, this condition is a lifelong... it's the rest of your life, progressive type thing. And even if I do get an appointment with a specialist, from everything... I've joined a support group for it and I'm finding that everyone has... it's on... you have to be able to live with uncertainty because it's something that people think they have under control and then it flares up again. And you know, even seeing a specialist is not going to... this is requiring really to be able to be okay with uncertainty.

Yes, yes. For us to be able to accept the mystery, yeah, is the true freedom. Because life and the interpretation of life in the mind will always create these problems or these things which seem to be crying out for a solution, you see? And we keep going from answer to answer to answer to answer, but nothing gives us an ultimate satisfaction till we come to a point of acceptance of the mystery. And it can just seem tough when it's with regards to the body and about things like death. But in some cultures, it's not so heavy, actually. Death is not such a difficult notion. Like, there's a country very close to India called Bhutan where everyone is actively encouraged to meditate on death two or three times a day. And you know, by the way, this country is the happiest country. They actually did a survey and they found that the country where they meditate on death two to three times a day is actually the happiest country, you see? But the topic of death in most other cultures seems to have become more of a taboo or something which is, you know, scary or fearful. But actually, it is the one inevitable, yeah, isn't it? So what can happen is—and some good news is also coming, don't worry—but what I'm saying is that from the experience of this life, the forty-six years that have been spent apparently as this one seemed like a few moments, you see? Just yesterday I was in college, just yesterday I was in school. It just didn't seem like, 'Oh, it's been so many years,' you see? So time goes this way. My life seems very long, it seems like it's been going for a very long time, then even... is that all of this just like a dream? You see, in a dream you could live a full life, but when it's over, it just seemed like, 'Oh, that was so instantaneous,' you see? So all of this life is ultimately going to seem like it just came and it just went. Where did it go? We could not really see. But the good news is that you are in Satsang and you're discovering something which is so beyond the ephemeral nature of this life and death. And you're doing very well when it comes to that, although you will not admit that. I've got to understand how that aspect of consciousness operates a bit, but I can tell you that in your openness there is... although your own reports about yourself are usually about medical conditions or about this and that, but I see that behind that there's a greater maturity which maybe your mind does not admit to or is not allowed to come on the surface. But this is your chance. All of Satsang is your chance to discover that which is beyond time, and that discovery will not change. So we could have this conversation twenty years later, you see, and I could still be asking: 'Are you aware now? That which is aware, does it have a birth? Does it have a death?' And you're discovering that you are truly that. These bodies, like Krishna said in the Bhagavad Gita, so many of these bodies, hundreds of thousands of these bodies we had, just like we changed our clothes, we changed bodies. In fact, all these apparent humans that are here, who's inhabiting them? The same consciousness.

I have a... I guess my conditioning is so firmly not about rebirth and such, and I still have a very strong feeling that consciousness is tied to the body and I can't imagine it going out of the body into another body. But I do know that it's the same. My son and I have an argument about this because he's still on the atheist side, but he's interested in consciousness, but he believes it's a product of the body. And I'm sort of like, 'Well, in a way, does it matter? Because it's the same stuff, it's the same substance of consciousness. What does it matter if it's like a wall divided by a line or it's still the same wall? Does it really matter?' But he feels like it does matter because it's like, 'My consciousness and your consciousness are different.' But it's like, what's the difference if it's the same substance? But still, I'm kind of locked in. And it's funny because part of me thinks the idea of rebirth is horrible. I don't want to go on, I don't want to go into the next life. But the other one is like, 'No, I don't know what an end would mean,' so that's frightening too. So either way is... I mean, the idea of... I have friends in Sangha that are just like, 'I wonder what my next life will be,' and I was like, 'Oh, how can you even think of that?' But I... yeah, so I know it's the same.

Both varieties and all the varieties of those conditions and ideas that we can have... and it's fine. Like, whatever you feel like is your truth, it's fine. There's just some things intuitively that show up here, but I'm not attached to... for example, I'm not attached to the notion of rebirth. I just find with the consciousness that is here, you see, I cannot find a way that something so trivial as a death of a body could limit that, you see? That's why I would say that it will persist.

The same both varieties and all the varieties of those, you know, conditions and ideas that we can have. So, and it's fine. Like, whatever you feel like is your truth, it's fine. There's just some things intuitively that show up here, but I'm not attached to. Like, for example, I'm not attached to the notion of rebirth. I just find with the consciousness that is here, you see, I cannot find a way that something so trivial as a death of a body could limit that. You see, that's why I would say that it will play, it can dream again, it can have a hundred dreams a night, you see. And this could be just another dream. I cannot really see, but it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter if it wasn't an end. If there actually is somehow an end, it would—that would be okay with consciousness. Like, just say conceptually, although my intuitive insight is not like this, but if you were just to be speaking conceptually for a moment and to say that, okay, death is the end of everything, even awareness, then what's the problem? I'm not there to experience it, so I will not have any trouble after death because I'm not there to have that trouble.

I know. That's funny. I had that insight once when I was in my twenties and thinking, 'Oh no.' And my ex-husband said to me, 'Well, what difference does it make? I won't be there to worry about it.' And I thought, 'Oh yeah.' Everyone... but my intuitive insight shows me my true nature of awareness, which is beyond time and beyond space. But I'm saying that even conceptually speaking, you see, even conceptually speaking, things are not as bad as the mind makes them out to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's just one more thing I wanted to say is a fear that comes up that maybe this anxiety that I've had that's consistent in the past three or four years—I mean, it's peaked as part of a medical condition—and then my... it's not something that could be even solved by becoming awake. And but I sort of... I know kind of that I know that I know intellectually that it shouldn't matter. Like, if it... because it isn't really me, whether it's the body or it's whether it's my body or it's something my mind is creating, it's still equally not really me. But I guess I just wanted to say it for, I don't know, just don't take any side of the conceptual equation too seriously because in our heads we don't really know it's true. I want it solved. I still want it solved.

You don't actually even know what the problem is. It's true. So to want it solved is to take the notion too seriously already. Yeah. Okay. So we don't know whether something is the best thing that can happen to us or the worst thing that can happen. We can't really see. And that leads us to an openness of just trusting. Once we run out of moves, we have no real option but to trust.

Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. This is going to be a lot of transcribing. I haven't done last week yet.

Let's not do it. She'll be fine. Thank you. Thank you. Good. Let's go to Edgard then, Jada.

Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. Namaste. First of all, I'm very thankful again. All these weeks, as the frequency of the satsang days have been kind of decreasing because, you know, there was before satsang on Monday and Wednesday and Friday, now just Fridays.

Yes.

I think I have been... I don't know. I at first I started like perceiving it as a hindrance to my, I don't know, like comfort in the spiritual understanding or whatever. But I now I think it was good to do that because when you... since it was only on Fridays, then I can just let my mind games aside. Because sometimes I thought like I was going to say this in satsang, but I then I realized, no, it's just another mind game. So, but if it would have been on Mondays and Fridays, I would have said it anyways and just fell into the trap and wasting time maybe. So very thankful for that.

Should we reduce even more? What? I'm just kidding. You can make once a fortnight. Okay. No, I'm sorry, I don't understand much. So I think we can make satsang once in two weeks. Ah, why? No, no, don't worry. Yes, I don't know what led you to this decision. I just think maybe you're just tired, like physically tired. But I don't know, for me it has been a blessing.

Yes, actually even in the play of decision making, I don't feel like I'm deciding much. No, it's just like something shows up and then say, 'Okay, we cancel, let's do Friday.' It just happens more organically, although outwardly it may seem like there's some decision making happening. You know, if you were to ask me what is the right frequency of satsang, on some days I could say every day, on some day I could say once a year. So it's okay, you just have to let it play out.

And have... do you take the same matter when you have to do this long-term decisions? Like when you have to do it either now or never and it will have big effect in the life? Like do you take the same attitude?

I feel that because I don't remember sitting and thinking about anything for a long time.

You know, I'm going through that. Yeah, that's why I ask you. Yes. I got this thing on university. I don't know, maybe I have to decide whether to stay here in my country or leave my family temporarily and go abroad, yeah, like you know, to do an entire career. And I think like I have been... at first I was like deciding between this, as you said, points of view in the mind, trying to comfort myself, maybe if I take this decision giving justifications, mental justifications to feel more secure in that. But then I started to realize the whole dynamic and left it. I didn't feel more sure actually, but some trust was emerging from that. So that's why I was asking.

Yes, very good. So to allow yourself to be unsure is very useful, you see. It is better than fake knowledge. It is better than fake ideas of, 'Oh, I'm so sure.' We can never be sure conceptually about anything. And sometimes what happens is when we leave that space of accepting the mystery, then something becomes very sure in the heart, and that's fine. But sometimes something is very silent in the heart where no apparent decision is showing up, and that's good too. That's fine too because life is nice to find a way.

I just fear I will regret it not taking a decision.

You find a way. It is not my head's problem to solve life. My head is too small to solve life. All our heads are too small to solve life. And it's only a human pride which can amplify so much and say, 'Okay, I can evaluate life and I can say this is the best approach.' Nobody can evaluate life that way, you see. So as you surrender, you see, then you must surrender the experiencer also. Like if you surrender the doership, then remember that it is only consciousness that is experiencing its own play or life, you see. It's not consciousness trying to make it... Edgar go through some bad stuff. Okay, I don't know if you ever played these games, these games like Sims or SimCity, you know, whether these all these characters are there and the player is playing all of them. But if the character started to think, 'Okay, why is this happening to me? Why is the God of the game, the human player, why is God doing this to me?' Who are they talking about? It is just appearances in the computer game. What are these games called? Role playing games? Is it RPG? We used to have a lot of this stuff. No, I don't know what you're talking about. Simulation, they say. Same things. Look it up. You can look it up with Electronic Arts.

Yeah, I just maybe forgot. Forgot, yes. I'm feeling like I have to really think to tell you the problem. The problem... like I'm really thinking right now. No, nothing. No thinking. Making the effort kind of, because I really feel natural sometimes... but I really feel it natural to... for there to be a problem. I feel so.

Sometimes you feel nice when there is a problem? No?

You feel... I feel like it is natural. It comes out. Yes, natural, natural. Yes, automatic maybe.

It is the nature of the mind. It is very natural to the mind to propose something that has to be resolved. But in truth, in consciousness, nothing has to be resolved.

Yeah, I get that sometimes too, you know, with all this reading books. Even your books... no, not so much with your books. I don't know, I always have this perspective that I enter this activity with a certainty and I go read a new book on spiritual stuff because after reading it, I usually feel frustrated, confused, because I don't get it.

It's very good. But I don't like it. So I don't like it though. Nobody likes it. Nobody likes it. Nobody likes being frustrated. But the thing is that to let go of beliefs can seem very frustrating because they are our idea of truth, you see. Our beliefs are our idea of truth. And without our idea of truth, we feel very empty. We feel very frustrated initially, you see. Then we start to see that, okay, our idea of truth can never contain the truth, you see. Then that process becomes a bit simpler and we feel like I have some clarity. But what we mean by clarity usually is like, 'I have a conceptual or intellectual model on which I can base reality and life.' But life or reality is not so small that it will become part of a model, you see. So when you read it, you're reading the right ones. It's the good ones which is taking away the models. So all the clarity goes away, but it is not clarity that you had in the first place. It was just a mirage or an illusion of clarity, you see. So in our head there can never be clarity. In our perception there is never the truth. This is the ultimate truth. So anything that shakes us out of a conceptual certainty is actually in service to us. What does clarity mean for most of us? It means a conceptual certainty. But that has to be shaken because there is no certainty conceptually, you see. I have full clarity because I am not concerned about what's in my head. But if clarity means that I have a good structure for what's in my head, then that has to be shaken up.

So I cannot ask you for advice really because like conceptual advice...

Yes, yes. In the sense that as usual, as long as you are aware that the only truth, you see, is beyond concepts and beyond phenomena. In the play of this life and the play of master and disciple, sometimes this play can happen that way. But really the highest I have to give you is to take you beyond all concepts. Yeah, I lost your video, but just to continue the conversation a bit, that there can be a feeling that, 'Okay, I go to the master for advice, my master gives advice.' And a master usually will not have a sense of whether this is good advice or bad advice or right advice or wrong advice, you see. But the master is also aware that if we try to gauge the outcome of that advice, you see, what are we going to gauge it with? So if you have a mental benchmark, then many times it can be, 'Oh, I went to the master and the master told me this and look at this, it is the big mess now.' Or it could be, 'Oh, thankfully I went to the master and look at this and it's so nice,' you see. It can go either way. But the thing is that our ability to be able to judge life or the state of our life, it comes from... if it's intuitive, you will see that it's all grace. But if it's just concept, then it's a 50/50 shot.

But you know, I don't like that because I still feel like, 'Yes, I got this,' then I realized I don't.

Yes, yes. As long as there's a misidentification as this 'I', then this oscillation will happen. And this oscillation is very good because it doesn't allow you to settle into any spiritual ego. I sometimes think you're frozen.

Sometimes it is like that and sometimes I'm just not moving. No, actually I don't know if it is my internet or you just standing still, sitting.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All of you are doing your transcripts? Hello? No idea what is the task backlog now, huh? What is the backlog of transcripts now? How many are remaining on still to finish?

Oh, that started slowly. I'm coming, but I will have more time to do this. So yeah, I know that Mahesh had some.

I sometimes think you're frozen. Sometimes it is like that, and sometimes I'm just not moving. No, actually, I don't know if it is my internet or you just standing still, sitting. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All of you are doing your transcripts. Hello. No idea what is the task backlog now, huh? What is the backlog of transcripts now? How many are remaining on, uh, still to finish?

Oh, that started slowly. I'm coming, but I will have more time to do this. So yeah, I know that Mahesh had some fun doing, uh, art last transcript. I saw his visuals with his head on the dance. No, it's like this, Father, just too much joy in it, really. Um, but it's like I want to give my full attention to it. And because I, I'm working, actually it can work, but I, I'm like, I want to give my attention to it fully. Like this, I, I don't, I do the children. I have two teenage children, two, two teenage biological children, no? And I've heard everything from them already. Okay, sorry, so I was not aware that this, this was an excuse. So thank you.

The perfect is the enemy of the good. That's the saying they say. The perfect, the perfect is the enemy of the good. So many times we just, the mind will keep telling us to wait for a situation until it is perfect, you see? And, and the good is good enough sometimes. There's some wealthy advice, fatherly advice.

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I was really not so aware of this. Um, may I share a little bit something about Javi's life now and how things unfold?

How are you doing first with my contemplation which I gave you? Okay, can you report them back first?

Yeah, sure. Um, like everything has settled with them because while we were in this kind of intense interaction, like so many things outside and here, and energy level was just so, um, so like this. And yeah, it starts to settle. And when it's settled, like the true, um, yeah, actually I don't know, maybe I'm just, oh my god.

This reminds me of the story. Okay, you don't have to transcribe this part. Okay, so, so one day in the Satsang with some Sangha members, I don't remember whether it was being broadcast, this was maybe two years ago, maybe longer, I realized that nobody in the Sangha was doing the self-inquiry properly, or very rare among the Sangha people who are doing the self-inquiry properly. And why do I say that? Because I got a report which said, 'Father, the self-inquiry stopped working for me.' I said, 'Okay, now this is something interesting. How did the self-inquiry stop working?' They said, 'Initially when I used to do the self-inquiry, I would ask myself who am I and everything would start to settle. The mind would settle, you see? The problems would go away and it is working so well. But now when I ask myself who am I, the mind is getting even louder. There's even more trouble, you see?'

And I realized in that conversation, and I just looked around the room and I saw that many were resonating with this kind of thing, and I realized, but this is not the self-inquiry. This is to use the inquiry to solve our problems. But what happened to the question 'Who am I?' You see, it is independent of the state. Whether it is noisy or whether it is settled, independent of that, there is your reality which is untouched, you see? Otherwise what happens is, and I remember Mahesh and I spoke about this, it was a very beautiful, helpful conversation. Otherwise what can happen is that if we come to some settling as we say, using a spiritual tool, then it can feel like I have to guard that settling, you see? I have to guard that settling and say, 'Okay, this is my mental state. It's very settled now. My life is settled now.' So now any, anything that comes, it seems to attack that. We want to defend against that, you see? And that is a very strongly resistant state which we don't realize is very resistant, you see? And it blocks us, you see? It makes us, uh, maybe even more constricted than we were before we started spirituality.

So that is why for all my Sangha, I want to avoid you getting into any of those type of traps. So true spirituality will give you the openness in which everything can come and go. All states can come and go. Sometimes states are big, big, big like that, sometimes it's all easy, easy. But, but you will see that what you really are is untouched by any of that. Now, what, what happens is that a lot of times because we feel like we came into spirituality so that we could be happy or in a particular state of peace or something like that, we feel like, 'But that's what I wanted. Now let's stop here because this is what I came for,' you see? But the thing is that is a very unstable state, and to try and make that unstable state stable will take us all our life energy. Everything will get used up in that and we get more and more tired, and one day we'll just become so frustrated and say, 'Oh, this spiritual thing doesn't work. There is no God. All these gurus are all fake,' you see? All this will come. You can feel like, 'I tried and tried and tried to remain in a particular state, but I just can't hold on to it,' you see?

But that is not the nature of life. The nature of life is not to present just one dish or one state, as pleasurable as it may seem. It is to play with all the colors and all the shapes and all of the signs, you see? So I'm actually attempting to give you the tools through which you could, anything could appear in your life, but you remain really untouched by it. Even if the body is going, but you inwardly in your reality, you see that you are untouchable. Now this can lead to a bit of a confusion because it can seem like, 'But I came to spirituality for happiness, for peace, and now that I'm getting it, why is he asking me to say who am I? I got my happiness, I wanted that,' you see? 'He gave me a tool and I'm getting that now. Why is he like bothering me with this who am I question? Isn't self-inquiry for peace?' No, you see? At one level we can say, but really not, not like that. Self-inquiry is to come to the discovery of what we are, you see?

So, so independent of whatever the state may be, whether constricted or noisy or whatever, or peaceful or joyful, what you are in your reality, you see, is the pure witnessing of that which remains untouched by any of that. So it doesn't need to be guarded. You don't have to make any defenses or try to hold on to anything. Every moment you can allow everything to come. Everything is so fresh and alive. Everything can come. So that is the beauty of this. That is the beauty of this realization. That in the life, it's not that in the lives of sages everything becomes all hunky-dory and candy-candy. So it's, it's all the biggest challenges can come, and many have been, had to undergo a lot of the worst or tortures which are available in this world, you see? And although momentarily their expression may be shaky, but in reality they, they have recognized that they are that which is so beyond display of states and display of perceptions.

And for one who truly looks for this, Father, they are nothing at all. I mean, whether it's like this and a whole tsunami around, it doesn't matter at all. And yeah, I don't know, like I, I want to pray now because you have blessed me by giving me all the tools and I just realized that I don't, I didn't use it. I didn't use it till now. And because, okay, my expectation was beautiful life, etc., and I have had it. And like, I don't know, like the, the real wanting or desire for looking to where I am hasn't arisen yet. And I just...

Sometimes it happens like this, you see? And it's worth celebrating because sometimes we notice that there was a blind spot, and when we notice it, it is good news to be celebrated. Then also sometimes it can feel like, 'But I'm in this Chinese restaurant, but I wanted Italian food. So what am I doing here? And why do I keep coming to this Chinese restaurant?' You see, that is also grace. That is also grace and to be celebrated, you see? So life is clearly showing you that independent of what we thought it was about, you see, independent of that, something is being shown to you. And, and to notice that is to make use of it. It is good enough.

Yeah, I, I, I just want to pray that may my full attention and my whole, um, urge and yearning just be for this, to really...

This is a beautiful play of life. Beautiful play of life. So many are looking for a Chinese restaurant and they keep, the Italian restaurant keeps showing up for them. Many feel like they want to stay in an Italian restaurant and only this Chinese one keeps showing up for them. We can't really, we can't really judge any of them, but we just have to trust that grace is taking care.

Father, it is just beyond trust because what I was expecting was just a little that, and I'm a grace to really be brought here and I'm, I'm never be abandoned. And yeah, I'm brought even to this point. So of course my only choice is you and be here for this alone.

And so the contemplation was 'Who are you?' and what is the insight on that?

So I don't know, not one thing. Um, like yet I, I have found your written meditation and, and I share it on, on Facebook page because it's really just open this pristine nothing what you called. It's really just you, you, um, read it and it's there. So yeah, it's just so much here. Like not like it is just so much here and yeah, it's, it's like how to say, but it's like nothing yet everything is here. But it's just so obvious that I'm nothing, so to say. Um, it's just so obvious and it's a feeling also. It's just time to time even in daily life, it just comes when I look, it's just there and just so obvious. And at the same time, this is also not confusion, but at the same time I'm just so much aware of the, aware of presence. So like this just came up so, so, so obvious that, um, everything is just watched. Like I'm watched, everything, just this life what's happening and just the awareness of this light which is alive, just so much, um, obvious. And yeah, like my attention is just sometimes on light, sometimes on nothing. I don't know.

Okay, so the question for this week is: What is that you know, what is that you know where attention cannot go? You need to repeat this further. What is that which you know where your attention cannot go? What is that which you know? What is that which you know where your attention cannot go?

Um, I couldn't digest it now.

Yes, as I said, for this week. And that's why I said homework for this week, maybe for all of us. Because it can feel like we are stuck in the play of attention, that attention is on my being, attention is in the world, you see? All of this, and it keeps fluctuating. But where is that, where, which is that which you know but attention cannot go? So wherever attention can go, it's fine. It's fine, don't worry about that at all. Where is that where attention cannot go and yet you know? Take your time. Take your time over this. Thank you.

I don't know why I, uh, pressed the raised hand button there. There's no reason, there's no, there's no desire and there's no intellectual reason for doing it. And then the first time I put it up, after a while some fear came of this uncertainty of, you know, um, but what are we going to talk about? Um, and then I put the hand down and then I put it up again and there's still, there's kind of looking for what can we talk about. Yeah, and so that's what that feels like. That's one part of, uh, something to share.

And then it goes very well with the theme of what we've been speaking about. Yeah, it goes very well with the theme of what we are speaking about in terms of just accepting the uncertainty, accepting the mystery. And at a deeper level, it's just to realize that whenever we think we are certain, we are not anyway. Like concepts of certainty have been blown apart so many times in our lives that it's funny how we still hang on to them as if they are true. So that is the, that is the fun, fun part of this. That the salesman has sold us fake goods for so many years, for so many, uh, millions of times, and yet we seem to be, uh, willing to buy the, uh, fake merchandise from, from this seller of certainty or clarity where really no certainty or clarity is available. And to just show up open and empty like this is very good actually. It's very good because we never know anyway. Suppose we are...

Our lives, that it's funny how we still hang on to them as if they are true. So that is the fun part of this: that the salesman has sold us fake goods for so many years, for so many millions of times, and yet we seem to be willing to buy the fake merchandise from this seller of certainty or clarity where really no certainty or clarity is available. To just show up open and empty like this is very good, actually. It's very good because we never know anyway. Suppose we're really certain about what I'm going to ask, but you show up and I say, 'Okay, Mahesh,' and then you just forget, you know? Or something totally different comes out and you say, 'Where did that come from?' You see? So we don't know, really. And once we start to accept that—that we are not as big or smart as we think we are—then life is much more open and empty. Much more. We are not trying to direct the flow of it so much.

And what started to come there as you were kind of finishing what you were saying, the thought, 'Oh, I've done good,' and then another thought, 'Oh, maybe I haven't, maybe he's about to criticize me.' So they were also like, I can't tell which is true, so I'll just let them vocal.

That's it, because we can never tell conceptually what is true. Like, it may reiterate one opinion repeatedly and then like, 'Yeah, and actually he's actually criticizing me.' And I have no intention like that, but you can create this sort of idea, and with repetition and force, it may seem more and more believable every time it comes. But this master key is that really any conceptual representation is never representing what shows up. You know, forget what is; even what shows up in the manifest is not properly representable. So it's good that you let both go. And that is what I'm talking about: let both go. Let both the opposites go. Oh, I will say, but then what? You see, if you let all the opposites go, then is it this way or that way? None of your business. None of the mind's business.

I yeah, I don't know. Something that was happening during satsang was that my eyes seem to be closed a lot of the time and normally when I'd hear a voice, I would associate it with a face and, you know, the sound on an image. And that connection just seemed to not be there. It seemed like the voice was one thing and then the moving images were another thing.

Yeah, it's very good actually, because there's no way of determining these things. Like many times we determine a sensation: 'No, that's coming from my hand.' There's no real way of determining that. I'm not saying it's not, but it's fully doubtable. Because you know about this rubber glove experiment? Did you know about this? Yeah, they just put this rubber glove and they poke that, and it feels like my hand's actually being poked, whereas my hand is over there. So many of these things which you are—can I make it all of you? You've been in Bangalore long enough, I'm sure I made you watch the McGurk effect. And what happened in the video is they changed the video to 'fa' and everyone starts hearing 'fa,' but if you're not looking at the video, you're looking away, you still hear 'ba' because that is apparently the sound which is coming out. But can we really say then, where is the sound coming from? So to be able to conclude these things—that okay, this voice is this one's, this sensation is this part of the body, this is what is really my experience—they are leaps of faith, really. They are leaps of conceptual beliefs.

It kind of feels like some thoughts arose and, like when you're trekking through a really muddy ground and you kind of get stuck in the mud, so there's this kind of—well, there was this feeling of trekking through thoughts and then kind of getting stuck in thoughts so that I couldn't reach you to connect with you. Is the word 'stuck' wanted to be said?

Yeah, so as we are letting go of our beliefs and thoughts, we must remember to let go of our beliefs in thoughts about thoughts. What happens for most in this kind of spirituality, this kind of satsang, is that because we become more and more, you see, intelligent to what kind of sneakiness and what kind of trouble thoughts can create, then our representation—which is also conceptual—about thoughts themselves starts to feel relevant or valid, you see? And then that can become a trap which is very difficult to break through and create some apparent distance. So just like the mind cannot really say anything about the world or any perception, it cannot truly say anything about the mind itself. So all mental representations of what the mind is can also be thrown away.

It's like there's an inability to understand you on a conceptual level, but I don't know if that's a trick of the mind because the thought kind of came that, 'Oh, you're not allowed to understand things now because that's using the mind and we're against the mind,' so you know.

So that's what I'm saying, like this mental commentary on the mind itself and what we can do with the mind, you see. So really what I'm saying is—to clarify that point because it can be confusing—is that what I'm pointing to is independent of what concepts you may have or not. Yeah. So but if we take those concepts, knowledge, representations of what is, you see, then we are just shaping up for suffering because no concept is large enough to represent what is. And if you take them to be true or if you believe them, then that is to give them the certificate of being valid representations of what is. And when we take the false to be a true representation of what is, suffering is the alarm clock that shakes us out of them.

So I know that I understand this, but right now it feels like I can't grasp it. But I know, I know at other times I have understood it.

Yes. So in one aspect of your being, there's confusion. Okay. So there's understanding sometimes, there's lack of understanding; all of that is playing out. Now, is there another aspect of your being?

Yeah, there's the aspect that doesn't need to understand anything, that's just aware and, yeah, it's like it's not caught in the mud.

Yeah, that aspect where all these oscillations can happen, let it happen over there, you see? Don't judge yourself on that basis whatsoever. Whatever may be happening there, you just are reaching this deeper intuitive place where it's independent of what may be conceptually understood or not. So then it doesn't matter whether you have the entire Encyclopedia Britannica in your head or it's completely full of the opposite of whatever the encyclopedia says. It doesn't really matter because you're not relying on that or any true representation anyway.

Yeah, yeah, I understand.

Doesn't mean bad news, by the way. In fact, it was part of my job as a master is to frustrate you.

I don't even feel frustration, there's just confusion. But there's acceptance of the confusion and...

Very good, because acceptance of confusion, actually, that's a beautiful term. Because acceptance of confusion can only be when you're accessing the higher place. Because if you're only possessing the mind, then confusion is very frustrating. But to be able to say, 'But I accept the confusion,' is a true representation of you accessing the higher intuitive heart, you know? It's good because only from there can you accept the mystery. You see, otherwise they sound like very fancy words: 'Accept the mystery,' which actually means accept the confusion. Accept the confusion because confusion at the level of the mind is very frustrating. Nobody wants to be confused conceptually, you know? When we're only relying on the mind and the mind is full of rubbish, then we don't want to accept that confusion. It's only when you can access the heart, from there you can say, 'I accept the confusion,' which means the mind is unsteady in its conclusion.

Yeah, if I'm not expected to understand anything and communicate it, then I'm like this. It's fine, I'm fine, you know? It's fine. My wife, she wanted something, so I was just saying that even communication, you see, as you're getting used to accepting the mystery or confusion, you'll find that in the midst of your head being fully confused, you see, your heart will be able to use your mouth. Okay? Yeah. As most masters, if you ask them, they'll just be like, 'But I don't know anything. I don't know why all of you come to me. I don't know anything.' But they're talking about here, you see? They're talking about here. There's nothing that I can really conclude from here. But the heart speaks. The heart allows this mouth to function and it can only point. The mouth can only point.

I just want to communicate, I just want to—I don't know what word—but love is the only thing that the heart wants to... it's just like, what does the heart have to say? It's just love. It's just love.

Yes. That's all it ever wants to communicate. And this love is so much broader than any concept of love that we had, like growing up, in culture, movies, songs. We hear about love and we've all experienced love in that way as well. But the love that you find in your divine presence is so much beyond what can be spoken, you see? Very beautiful. And yet everything it's pointing to is for that.

Yeah, I don't... if I had a wish—who's 'I'? I don't know—if I had a wish to be in the heart always and only communicate love.

Full blessings for that. It is so amazing as long as you don't have a way to judge yourself on that. It is so...

Yeah, please guide me to bypass the mind and that judgment.

It's a beautiful bypass. It's not like what sometimes we call spiritual bypassing, because spiritual bypassing is like a, you see, to try and run away or to not meet it. This type of bypass which you are speaking of is a mind bypass to the heart. It is the bypass where the mind can play out in openness; everything is accepted, you see? Everything is accepted with our attention, but we find in our heart that there's a much bigger seeing than the mind's tiny representations. That is why the guidance is: do not go so much for conceptual understanding, because those will be tiny compared to what is already present in your heart moving. Yeah. The heart space is so much like the... it's like the mind is and the heart is. Thank you.

Very good. My throat is starting to go a bit, but let's quickly go to Madelina, Gisha, and Arvind. Full love from here and thank you to Mahesh for such a beautiful pointing. I think I should do the transcripts when I speak to Mahesh. It was very beautiful. The whole exchange between the two of you was just pure heart, so it filled my heart.

I wanted to share that, and I was fully engaged in these satsangs despite the late hour where we are here. It's past midnight, she's still here. I think she's coming to say hello. Hello. The most amazing thing was that when you and Florence had the laughter, it was by herself and she was asleep and she was laughing out loud. Yeah, it was definitely a language she understood. So it's universal. Yeah, and she's been around me, yeah. So thank you. There was a question that arose in me during this exchange with Mahesh. It brings lots of mind energy in here. So self-inquiry does that, you...

Yeah, can you illustrate for me how it does that? Show me what happens. You ask 'Who am I?' and then... ah, I can't really think of that now because it is a pretty solid statement. We should back it up. All the new ones we're hearing about self-inquiry today will say, 'No, no, no, yeah, it's not good.' Yeah, 'Who am I?' That question is... ah, if I ask you 'Who are you?' then what happens?

And right now it doesn't happen, but generally I might panic thinking that, 'Ah, some mind will kick in and will say, ah, I'm not sure, I don't know the answer to this question. What am I going to do now?' But the one guidance on that, he said that the mind will present these kind of thoughts and you can just ask, 'What witness is...'

New ones we're hearing about self-inquiry today will say, 'No, no, no, yeah, it's not good.' Who am I? That question is... if I ask you who are you, then what happened? And right now it doesn't happen, but generally I might panic thinking that some mind will kick in and will say, 'I'm not sure, I don't know the answer to this question. What am I going to do now?' But the one guidance on that, he said that the mind will present these kind of thoughts and you can just ask: what witness is that, or who witnesses that? And sometimes when I sit with that, there's just a dull state that happens. But once again, it's clear that we are to ask: so who witnesses that, whatever the state may be or whatever the thoughts may be? For how long, how many years? Let's do it together and see how long it takes. This impact is what I was talking about, like the inquiry. I feel like I wanted to, and somebody actually requested here that we can go through the inquiry together because I feel like many are misunderstanding the inquiry.

So what can happen is that you ask 'Who am I?' and then—I'm not directing this at you, I'm just making jokes—but then we're just waiting to see what states are coming and we're just spiritual sightseeing. 'Oh, there's peace coming, good, good, good. Oh, noisy, bad, bad, bad,' you see? But the basic fundamental of the inquiry is to ask. So if it becomes noisy, then the guidance is clear: so who is aware or who is witnessing even that? Then what happens? 'Hmm, I'm going into this loop like who am I, okay.' And then the mind says, 'Oh, I'm not the body-mind because I already analyzed that.' And then I'm thinking, that's the mind talking. So yes, who witnesses that? There's a beauty of the inquiry that actually the inquiry always works, but it doesn't work according to what we want from it. As long as the emphasis of the questioning is on the 'who,' the inquiry will work and you come to the recognition also.

But the thing is that the recognition many times does not meet our mind's expectation of what the recognition should be. Because the mind convinces many of us that actually this inquiry is endless recursion and we can go to infinite regression and this kind of thing, but it's not like that at all. First thought can come: 'Okay, so what witnesses that?' Then some may say, 'Okay, but some feeling calm, some anger comes, or some joy comes.' Okay, who witnesses that? And say, 'Okay, I notice there's a sense of being here, it is perceiving all of this.' We may not say whatever means. Then what witnesses even that? Then what happened? There is no way to go. There is no loop or there is no possible after that, unless we have just been playing with the notion. We say, 'Okay, okay, I'm not the body-mind, therefore...'

Then the inquiry works, especially if you've been doing it for years, then it's good to not give it up like that. And it's not mental, it's not painful. It's one of those things, just maybe some more guidance is needed. We can talk about this some more in next season also, that possibly the inquiry is being misunderstood when it's becoming like a play of concepts or trying to hold on to some states or something like that, yes.

And there is a... when we were talking, you know, all this requesting satsang, I guess towards Guruji or yourself, 'Absorb me in you.' And there was this mind expectation that the skies are going to be able to open and I don't know what will be this absorption in the greater consciousness. So this... yeah, I wasn't inquiring, but it's not that small.

It's more than that. It's more than you can expect, so don't bother expecting.

I'm happy I brought this question up. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. And yeah, I'll follow up with you next Friday.

Yes, yes, very good. Thank you, thank you.

Hello. Oh my dear, you're tired and my conditioning feels very bad and guilty about taking it. It might not be very enjoyable, hopefully it is. I... there's just like really intense sensation right now, like faint, feeling faint and like kind of sick. It's very heightened right now and it's okay. And there's just, after you said 'let both opposites go,' something just kind of clicked and it's creating a physical reaction right now. Because my prayer is to always live from a place of God, and so the inquiry keeps coming naturally by itself right now. And one of it was: is it God or selfishness that's running this life? And I mean, they're both concepts basically. So suppose that these are the opposites, God and selfishness. So leave both. But yeah, that's it. It's like then there's just there's nothing to hold on to, right? And that's the physical sensation of fear. Like, there's even the negative things that I could hold on to were comfort, you know?

Yeah, yes exactly, yeah. And so like when there's nothing, none of that, it's like I feel the scrambling of something, I don't know what. This is the wobbliness we speak about. It's very good, it's very good. You can just be like, so then what's happening?

Yes, it's... I don't know. I just wanted to bring it to you, that's all. It's like sometimes something like this clicks and you see, 'Ah, these are opposites.' And beautiful when you said that we can hold on to our negatives as a comfort zone as well, because you feel like, 'Okay, okay, not that, I must be unworthy, maybe it'll take me a lot of time.' This kind of idea, then we can just hold on to those and just build a house there. At least it's familiar compared to the limbo of nothingness. Some silly idea like that, at least... what is that? A bird in hand is better than... so it can become a strong comfort zone. And something when it clicks like this, that even that is part of the play of opposites, you see? And therefore in the intellect, then gone. And for some time it could just be like 'yeah,' and that's fine. And that time could be momentary, it could be coming and going, it could be a few weeks, we can't really see.

Thank you, Anantaji. So grateful for a few minutes after such a long session. All I want to do is just ask for your blessings on this journey. You know, I find the... I'm also at times succumb to emotion and in particular, you know, sometimes anger. And you know, I recognize the falsity of it, at the same time, you know, I'm not at a place where everything is very smooth, right? So things, whether it's a variety of emotions from time to time... and so I just want to ask for blessings in terms of getting to a deeper and more permanent state of connectedness with the higher Self so that these influences and forces may lose power. So thank you.

All my blessings are with you. And my full blessing is that the righteousness, that the conceptual rightness, righteousness that comes with the rising of anger—which can be quite natural actually—may that conceptual righteousness just come and go. Because anything that appears by itself in the play of this life, in the play of consciousness, is all auspicious. It's all fine. It is only the ideas of these opposites of right and wrong, good and bad, which make this appearance seem as if it is so oppressive and limiting. So may everything that has to appear, appear naturally and disappear naturally as it is. May it not lead to righteousness, resentment, pride, false humility. May all of these be 'great be' emotions, be the most natural, most open, most driven by divine presence life that is possible.

Thank you. Before we go to Aniko, just a quick story where—maybe I shared before—one time there was a little girl who felt like there were monsters in the cupboard. And her father was a psychotherapist or something, said, 'I promise you, I promise you there are no monsters in the cupboard.' And she said to him something that stuck with him and with me. She said, 'If there are no monsters in the cupboard, then why do I experience this fear?' And it shows you a pattern where our mind has to rationalize every appearance. This is when anger comes, what can happen? It can either represent 'because I'm so bad, I'm so unworthy, I'm so terrible, I'm not spiritual,' or it can say, 'No, no, it's good that it came because I was so right, that one was just not getting it.' So either of those positions are actually much more oppressive, more limiting than the natural appearance of anger which lasts a few moments usually and it goes away.

So it is these 'great be' emotions, as I call them, which is the appearance of some emotions, but they mix with the interpretations from our mind which can seem a lot more limiting and troublesome. So when as we return to the innocence of a child, then you notice that even your children, sometimes some fear can come, sometimes anger can come easy, but they're not judging themselves on that basis. They're just leading moment to moment and allowing this natural flow to play out as it is meant to.

Shankara was the first one to run away and his disciples also, they all went and climbed a tree. Then after a while the tiger goes away, so they all come down. But Shankara is noticing like they're not really paying that much attention and all the reverence that they were feeling for him before was sort of fading away. He said, 'What's happening with all of you guys, you know?' So they said, 'You were just saying that all of this is unreal, but when the tiger came, you were the first to run away.' He said, 'The appearance of the tiger and my running away were both part of the same unreal illusion.' But the better end to the story is something one Jyothi told. She said, 'I know tiger is the illusion, but tiger doesn't know that yet.'

Yes, thank you very much. It's a very quick question and sorry for the last minute. It just came when you were talking to Madalina very strongly, because until that time I was in a very nice state, all right? And then something coming, a question then: is it still okay for me to not understand anything, or should I find the one who witnessed everything and do the self-inquiry, what I don't really like? What is it? Is it the same in a way, or there is any difference? Because I don't know, because even if I don't like, I will do that if it's better for me, of course. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Thank you for that question. Maybe it's a good place to come today because maybe there's a misunderstanding about what I'm saying about understanding. So when we are not trying to make so much orange juice in our heads and time everything in life through our minds, you see, are we lost? Have we lost intelligence? What is your experience? What is your experience? You will actually get introduced to a deeper understanding, a deeper knowledge, the self-knowledge, you see. Deeper insight into the divinity within you, which is the all-intelligent life force in which all of this play is being played out.

It is the intelligence with which the plants are growing and whatnot, the heart is beating and the universes are playing this game of resolutions and rotations and all of that. All of gravity, magnetism, all of this intelligence arises from there, not from our heads. It is from the beingness, from this consciousness, the divinity which is our very being. So as we are letting go of conceptual understanding, the mind may present to us a picture of some stupidity or just like, 'Oh, you know, where is your house? I don't know,' see? But it's not like that.

That is why like a Master like Nisargadatta Maharaj—and he's showing up in satsang today—Nisargadatta Maharaj was very, very uneducated, just used to run this small shop selling these local cigarettes in India. But he came by the grace of his Master to self-recognition, and his words are scriptural. Like you could study for hundreds of years but not be able to speak like that. So that is not a dullness, it is not a stupidity. It is just that we have been using an instrument which is very, very limited in nature, and we talked about this limitation both in terms of how much it can deal with, what it can fathom.

Nisargadatta Maharaj used to run this small shop selling these local cigarettes in India, but he came by the grace of his master to self-recognition, and his words are scriptural. You could study for hundreds of years but not be able to speak like that. So, that is not a dominance; it is not a stupidity. It is just that we have been using an instrument which is very, very limited in nature. We talked about this limitation both in terms of how much it can deal with and what it can fathom, and moving to a higher intelligence. So, all of satsang really is to go from head to heart, to go from head to heart and to introduce ourselves to this treasure truth of divinity which is already in our pocket.

When people say the diamond is already in your pocket, or they say you've been sitting on a box of treasure but begging for morsels, what are they talking about? It is the same thing. What is the begging? It is to go with these limited ideas of ourselves and of the world and apply them. That is now replaced effortlessly with this pleasure of intuitive insight and silence. Self-inquiry actually brings you to the same point because the answer to who you are will never be found in your head. It brings you to the same intuitive insight. When I ask you, 'Are you aware now?' it brings you to the same intuitive insight. So, it is all the same; it is just conceptually it sounds different.

Even surrender is the same as inquiry because as we let go of our conceptual notions, it brings us to the same. So, trust grace to play it out and don't be so deterministic about what you should do and where your life should go and what should happen. It is natural after the insight you had last week that the mind would come up with some sort of fancy objections and things like that. Just let go and allow your life to unfold. Om Shanti.

Thank you. Thank you so much. So much relief. I was just a little bit scared to go back again to this mind circulation and find something there because it's so much rest.

Yes. So, there is no difference between open energy, self-inquiry, surrender, 'Who am I?', 'Are you aware now?'. Whatever is being told to you is to bring you to this same intuitive insight, which is not unable to handle life or something like that. It can run life, and in the most beautiful way. In fact, it is the only one that is running life. We could not beat our heart for a moment if this intelligence was not doing it.

Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Very good. Okay, let's close with that. Maybe we can just sit here. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Moorti Ki Jai.