What Is It That Doesn’t Need Any Looking to Find or to Recognize? - 26th February 2021

Yes, my dear. Yeah, lovely to see you. I don't get to come to satsang too often because of work commitments, the opportunities when I can. Something I was watching on a video a little bit earlier—I can't remember the name of the gentleman—but he was making the distinction between using the conventional attention to look within. Yeah, and I think that that is probably something that I've been doing for probably a couple of years after reading some things by Jiddu Krishnamurti and some of the other great masters, and also watching a lot of Mooji videos. And this is, I think, where I have been experiencing myself as coming from.

And so, a lot of it, when I'm observing the phenomenal world around me and observing thoughts, then I think I'm seated in this place of being. So, when I heard the gentleman the other day talking about the fact that—and also you reiterated the same concepts—as there's almost something behind this that is this being then living the phenomenal world, and you can't actually reach this from attention, that was a massive 'wow' moment to me and I nearly sort of fell back off my chair. Because I do think for the last couple of years I've had this experience of being the being, which I thought was it.

And what it also made me think of, because I'm very interested in the science of free will versus determinism and this sort of thing, and as a result of what you said and what the other gentleman said in the discussion with you, that if the view of the being from attention is the point at which the attention can get to and then there's a roadblock and it can't go beyond that, what made me think then was: is my sense of the being a doer and being able to control my attention and send it to wherever I want to, feeling as though there was an entity within me that's able to do this? Is it because at the moment I'm centered in the being?

What's always, what's often has confused me is this idea of: you are the witness consciousness, you are the awareness that is observing things happening in the world and they're just unfolding. But very much for me for the last two or three years, it feels as though this being is in control of where this phenomenal attention can go. And so I just found that a little bit confusing because this idea of you are the witness to what's happening in the phenomenal world—okay, you're in control of it, it just happens—and that was one bit that didn't sit that well with me because it does feel as though this central entity was inside me, whatever that is that I thought was the true me, the truth was able to control whether I come to satsang or not, whether I go and see the kids, whether they're going to make a cup of tea and these sort of things.

So that idea of there being another extraction back from that is really completely blue. I think it's maybe because I've come from a physics, mathematical background—use attention to solve this and solve that and solve the other. So even with things like 'Who am I?', I do think what I was doing was I was going in with normal, probably possibly mind-driven attention to the point where I went, 'Ah, there it is, I found my true being.' And I think I've always, for the last three years at least, I've been sat there observing things from that point. But because it's felt as though I can control what I'm consciously attending to, I couldn't then make the connection between: it feels as though I'm controlling all this, but at the same time masters like yourself say you are the witness observing this phenomenal world unfold but you don't have control of it, you're an independent witness of it.

So I think this is something that's after watching the satsang portion a couple of days ago where I saw this video, ah, there we go. And at the moment I can't, I'm not quite there yet. I need to, something within me needs to process this idea of there being a deeper space from within which to even witness the being itself. And I very much like what you said, that don't feel as though this being that I've been sat in is somehow inferior from the actual true reality behind that. So I'd like to hear your comments on that. Thank you.

I have to say, I really enjoyed what you just said. I really enjoyed what you just said because it's full of a lot of integrity and honesty, and also that you heard me. You heard me very well in that highlight video. And what I really enjoyed is that when we start speaking like this, it is usually when the mind starts to, you see, it starts to confuse us. And so many, I've been saying this stuff for years, but not many have actually heard it in the way you've already heard it. So that is already very good, you see.

So, this is an exploration which is very close to my heart and I'm very happy to have a conversation about this together with you. When we say, when I say for example—I don't know if you've heard me say like that—when I say, 'Can you stop being?', you see, can you try to stop being? What becomes apparent? What becomes clear?

No, for me, I feel as though I'm so deep-seated in this concept of a being. But what is interesting about it, and again the other gentleman did touch on this a little bit, that it does feel as though there's some phenomenological thing that is almost tangible. So almost like when I'm trying to say, when I'm trying to investigate 'Can I stop being?', it's as though there is some sort of blank slate from which I can perceive there is perceiving. So you can't necessarily make a visual representation of it, but it is something that I feel, like you said, when about the attention can actually reach this point. It's that the boundary of what the attention is able to do, it does feel as though it can almost really something from normal attention.

But so yeah, I don't think that that can ever go anywhere. It's actually given me a lot of, you know, it's helped a lot in observing thoughts and things at work that used to sometimes stress me out when you've got deadlines and this and that and the other. So actually over the last few years, being able to view everything from this point has been great in helping everything and stress-related things, and things that probably used to wind me up in the past that don't now. And certain individuals, the use of personalities that would maybe wind me up in the past don't anymore because just being at being and observing things from that standpoint enables me to watch everything in the outside world pass me by, and thoughts and the rest of it. And it's fantastic. But I thought that's what there was.

I remember when you concluded your satsang portion the other day, you sort of said in many spiritual practices this is it, to the point of the being, and that's it. If you got that, that's brilliant. And yeah, it was really, and I thought well that was enough. But like I said, that was a massive 'wow' moment when it was, 'Ah, well there is actually something more extracted from that.'

Very good, very good. So even innocently all of us can... okay, I'm going to mute everyone again and we'll... I'll have to unmute you again, just give me... okay, good. So what I was saying is that just intuitively all of us will notice that there is like a qualitative difference in the two questions: 'Can I stop being?' or 'Am I aware now?' You see? Because I am even aware that I can't stop being. I'm even aware that I can't stop being.

Now, some may say of course that I am aware of the arising of this being and the going back to sleep of this being, but we'll come to that in a few moments. What is important is that this discovery that I am aware, is that dependent on what we just talked about? Even the palpable, vulnerable core heart, the center of our being—is the discovery that I am aware dependent even on that most primary vibration?

No, not at all. Not at all.

Very good. Very fine. So it's not even dependent on that most, let's call it the most primal perception. The most primal perception of beingness itself, it's not dependent on that. So if it is not dependent on any perception, what is the way in which we can confirm our awareness?

It's almost just got to be accepted of it because I even, even as we're having this discussion here, I can still sense that my conventional attention is trying to clutch at straws and try and find something beyond the being.

Absolutely. And almost it completely gives up. Yeah, completely. I mean, and if it gives up, it is good. Because usually what happens is the mind will play some tricks, like it will create like a dark and empty space, you see? And that will go to that, and it will create some visualization for you to make being at the center of that visualization and it's all surrounded by this big void, you see.

Conventional attention is trying to clutch at straws and try and find something beyond the being absolutely, and almost it completely gives up. Yeah, completely. I mean, and if it gives up, it is good because usually what happens is the mind will play some tricks, like it will create like a dark and empty space, you see? And that will go to that, and it will create some visualization for you to make being at the center of that visualization, and it's all surrounded by this big void, you see? But it's all still perception. But that which is aware of even those perceptions is not in that visual, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And yet everyone can confirm this, you see? Then this is so strange because all the means of knowledge—if we study the theory of knowledge, then all our means of knowledge—none of it, you see, can provide us this information or this knowledge because this what we call intuitive insight, you see, is beyond any sort of study, actually. It just is.

So if I was to ask somebody, 'How do you know that you are aware?' if I've irritated them long enough, they will say, 'I don't know, I just am,' you see? You see? And because I see this often as well, that because this 'I just am,' you see, is not spiritually glamorous sounding, we use another term called intuitive insight. But that intuitive insight is not graspable in any way. Like, the terms 'intuitive' and 'insight' do not actually end up defining it, you see? Do not actually end up telling us how we know of our awareness. It's very deep.

Do you mind if I ask one more question? Yes, it's that, um, let's say a master suggests and comes up with a sentence: 'It's important you come to satsang' or you know... but who is the 'you' that the master is talking to? Is it the being? Because it feels as though almost like the being is the chauffeur that could drive the body. Um, I mean, because even when I've got a—it can be a very, very calm mind, so it's certainly not any behaviors or actions, doesn't feel like it's driven from some ego that's got some sort of purpose or axe to grind. It does feel as though there's something very pure and intrinsic that is choosing to do this, do that, and do the other. So when a master suggests 'come to satsang' on such and such, which is the 'you' that the master is talking to? Is it the being who is the chauffeur that drives the body and the mind and obviously the witness as well? Or can normal perception through, say, the eyes or through the ears, has that got like a route to get deep into the actual witness, or is it going via the being and that sort of thing as well?

I understand. It's a good question. So maybe I can paint a picture for you, and in that picture the answer will come. So suppose that right now we can turn this on and we can just take it off. So suppose that in this moment I was to tell you, 'My dear friend, you see, you are dreaming. This is just a dream.' Now, who would I be talking to just now? I obviously would not be talking to that body-mind which seems to appear in the screen in front of me, because if it is just a dream, then that body-mind is also another character rising in that dream.

So all of satsang is actually just—actually it's not a multiple-choice question at all. It is just only consciousness or being is the manifest aspect of the Self is playing with 'her-ness' or this game of existence. And within that game, consciousness is speaking to itself. Whether that environment is satsang or not satsang, but it's only in satsang that it's speaking to itself as consciousness. So obviously, yeah, you see? Now, in which way would you hear the pointing that this is all just a dream, you see? Would it be through the eyes and ears of the character? It only apparently seems that, but consciousness is just conscious of whatever it is projecting on its own screen by itself. And in a way, this answers the whole debate about free will or the will of consciousness. Because if there was free will, then who would it belong to if we have not found the objective entity which could have free will, you see? In fact, we found the opposite: that there is no such objective entity. Then who are we saying that will could belong to? It cannot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much. That was fantastic. I will watch this back again at some point. And you're welcome. Thank you. Thank you.

One more hand is up. Ladies, thank you. Uh, yeah.

If I can go back to what you started with. Yes, your question was, 'Are you confused by this?' I cannot say that I am confused. Right now I'm not confused, or I wasn't confused at the end before my friend started speaking. That you were confused, let's call it a fact. I wasn't confused. I wasn't.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. No, no, it's okay. That you are confused or you're not confused, is that bad news or good news?

It's a good news. Okay, it's a good news. But I believe I don't—yeah, I just thought I need help still, even though I'm not confused. I'm not confused. I still felt like I need your help.

So the question was, 'What is it that doesn't need any looking to find?' isn't it? Maybe I've phrased it differently, and you can tell me if there was another pointing that stuck with you. But for now, what I recall is that what I was really pointing to is: What is it that doesn't need any looking to find or to recognize? And it's beyond any sort of effort or time. It is just apparent in the most obvious way. Everything. Remember, what do you find when you're not looking?

Yeah, that's the most what resonate. What do I find when I'm not searching for the Self? I'm not trying to be the Self.

So what do you find? Maybe I can rephrase it a little bit just to bring some more pointedness into the conversation. What do you find which is not dependent on what you are perceiving? Is there anything that, quote-unquote, you know without it being dependent on your perceptions?

I'm here. I somehow, somehow something of me is here, even though something is coming and going. It's very painful sometimes, but yes.

So this 'I' that is here, the 'I' that is here, could you—if I was to say, 'Do you see this I?' That's why you're able to say, 'No, you don't see it,' just because you heard about it in satsang and you heard about it from the masters?

No, not right now. Now something of me is right, right now here, but I can't see it.

Yeah, yeah. So wonderful that, so wonderful that is, you see? Because you have gone beyond this objective universe. This is what we don't realize. This is what we don't realize when the mind is saying, 'But, but...' You see what is happening? I'm saying go beyond your perception. You've gone beyond this objective universe into something which is not in time and space. You find yourself there, but not there as you know in a special way, you see? It's so pristine, it's so beautiful.

The problem is, if there is a problem at all, the only problem is: What can the 'me' do with it? What can a wave do with the whole ocean? Nothing. The ocean is already, it is already full of the ocean itself. There's nothing more for the wave to get. It may have judgments about itself in terms of if there's high tide or low tide, or there's a storm, or if it's serene, you see? The wave may judge itself and say, 'Ah, this is very nice, it's so peaceful.' Then tomorrow it starts shaking, you see, because the ocean is moving, and it says, 'This is—I must be doing something wrong.' So all this fallacy is kept aside, you see? But what can the ocean do for the wave more than it has already done, you see? That its very existence is made up of it. What more could we want?

I'm trying to make some kind of problem like that because, like, during the day it's like sometimes it feels like so hard.

You're right. Sorry, I'm cutting you again, but you're right that the first way to try and make a problem is to bring time into it. So we have these projections of the past and the future, and then that is the first method. You're right. So first you go to time. What happens during the rest of the time that you're not in satsang, you see? Am I either being the ocean then, or am I being the wave then? You see, the mind will present all of these things to you. But you're right, that is just ways to create problems where there are none.

Even during satsang sometimes, even like strong feelings come easy. But what—like whenever when a strong feeling comes, it's like some salt, very super strong salt water comes inside the wave.

But whose is it? Ultimately still the ocean. Who's going to take care of it? It's still the ocean, you see? The individual 'me' that has to deal with the set of phenomenal appearances is just the fallacy of there being a separation in the wave in the ocean. There is no such thing. What does that mean right now? Nothing. Very good. And this is my tip, you see? This is my tip: that everything that appears, you see, is when it is met in pure openness and emptiness, neither does it mean anything nor is it meaningless, you see? And if we give it a meaning, or even if we say it is meaningless, we have made ourselves or believed ourselves to be an objective entity again.

So if the idea, which is very popular, is that, 'Okay, if I was really free, then this feeling could not come or should not come,' you see, that is the meaning which is causing the trouble, not the rising of the salt water. And that is why in a way my only—ah, and we are going to come to this in a moment, but this is a good way to get there—is that I'm making the discovery very, very straightforward for all of you, you see? The discovery is becoming very, very simple, you see? Now, like I said, the only seeming trouble is the managing the bird and managing the desire, you know? 'Where is my place? Why?' You see all of this stuff, you see, which is basically resistance management, desire management, these things. And for that, you see, simplest, simplest is just stay open and empty. Let it all come and go. Just be openly.

If we find—I don't know, I didn't have the feeling I'll say this, but the words are coming—so if we find that it's not open and empty, it's sticky, then inquire or surrender, you see? Actually, surrender and open and empty are not different, really. But in surrender, we employ the tool of our devotion, the beauty of our devotion, to be able to use that divinity that we are touched by to let go of all of this at the feet of that divinity. So all of resistance management is open and empty. Okay, very good. Very good. Okay, I see Saronas.

Maybe I need the last—can you push the button? You want the last lord, right? Because the others who are waiting in line will feel like, 'What is this boy doing?' Oh my god. Yes. Oh yeah, it's very good. This both laughing and crying and neither laughing nor crying thing is very beautiful. Can I get some glass for water? Go to me after you get it or visit it. Watch the movie with me. I also picked up my... can come back to here. It is so funny, she asked for glass of water just the same time. Wow. The new ones will of course wonder whether they've come to a laughter yoga class. What grace looks like. Something. Oh my beloved, I'm very happy. I'm very happy. Oh. Make sure you're going to get plenty of rest and drink plenty of water, and we'll check in once more before we close today. Thank you.

Okay, next I see Georg. Is it Georg? Nice to see you. Very beautiful. Yeah, back now to where we started. Maybe I take it off, you can hear me.

Actually, when I look, not looking or letting go is all the same. Yeah, this is for to leave everything until you can't leave. So, um, I mean, I don't have to do anything for that. This is just here. It is always. It doesn't matter how I feel or I feel. I don't know. Actually, I'm confused about the 'I' because there is good feelings, bad feelings. And now maybe it's the point where I have to offer up some arrogance or pride. I want to offer that up to leave that because, um, I know it's going in my way and...

Actually, when I look, not looking or letting go is all the same. Yeah, this is for to leave everything until you can't leave. So, I mean, I don't have to do anything for that. This is just here; it is always. It doesn't matter how I feel or I feel—I don't know. Actually, I'm confused about the 'I' because there is good feelings, bad feelings, and now maybe it's the point where I have to offer up some arrogance or pride. I want to offer that up, to leave that, because I know it's going in my way and this can play very strongly and it's very painful actually. And it's, yeah, and also about this, I think I thought, 'Ah, wow, I'm so clever to find that.' You know, this is the prize. Yes, because it's actually really—I mean, everybody, we all are these. We have no choice. It's like choicelessly we have this. But one doubt sometimes comes—or not now, I'm talking to you actually—but I tell you, this is so stable that even a world war doesn't matter to it. No Hitler, no whatever is destruction, no this destruction of the planet, what is in my view horrible. And now my view sounds funny, but yeah, but it doesn't matter for this. So it seems so for the mind, so impersonal, that you really—it's like that you—it's hard to say that I am that. Ah, yeah, yes. But is it important to say? No, it—I mean, it's just—I mean, yeah. And it's truly, and it is necessarily during sleeping, waking, dreaming, if I think about it or not, if I meditate or not. It doesn't—I'm sorry for the words—it doesn't care. Yeah, it doesn't mind.

Exactly, yeah. But I didn't change it all. I feel the bit of diffidence. I see there is this thing that when we refer to it as 'it,' is that 'it' in any way different from you? Is it a—is there an 'I' that you are and it isn't it, or it is you?

It's that what perceives me as so. Even I'm talking to you is perceived.

Yes. So the 'me' is which one? 'Me' is the person, the Georg?

I see.

And is the person perceivable?

Yes.

In what way? We're just having a conversation, yeah, no pressure. A body is perceivable, yeah, and you feel. But does the body want freedom, or is the body inquiring into his true nature? When we say the person is perceivable, what do we mean by that?

Sorry, um, it's like a way of thinking. It's like—

Exactly, exactly. Very good. It's just like a way of thinking, yeah. But there is no objective perceivable person or ego. If there was an objective person or ego, then we would just get a surgeon, get that object outside our body and throw it away. Finish. But it is not a perceivable object in that way.

No, it's habits. Very old habits.

It's just an idea, yeah. We have nurtured for a long time, you see, in the play of consciousness. So, how to be rid of an idea? I mean, not giving too much attention. So just don't take it to be true. Not to be true—just don't take it to be true, which means that don't give truth value or belief or identification to the idea. Anything that proposes your limitation, anything which proposes your falseness, just let it come and go. Don't take it to be real.

But there is a strong old habit to become a better person. It's like this is that you think, 'Okay, you shouldn't.' This is nearly out of control, seems like this habit of thinking. It's so fast.

So that which doesn't exist obviously has no control over anything. And that which is the only existent, which is whether you call it consciousness or beingness or God, that is the only one who, if there is will, then it must belong only to that.

I feel you're not talking to my mind. I feel it.

You see, what we have to do with the mind sometimes is to negate it. Is to negate it. Because sometimes what happens is that it comes up with proposals which we take to be true. So sometimes that something appears to us in the form of a master to, you know, get you to question the validity, the reality of these notions. Yes, because they can still become very strong. They can seem very strong. And that is why satsang actually, and especially this type of satsang, is a deconstructive process. What is being deconstructed? Only our house of cards of thoughts, yeah. Build this egoic house of cards, so it has to be deconstructed.

Same time also a lot of undeserved happiness is arising and it's very—it's strange nearly. Thanks, thank you very much.

It's fine. For whatever arises, it's fine. Sometimes it happens. You must look at this video by Guruji, the mind, when he says that mind will call all its cousins and say, 'You also come, come,' which is hatred here. I will see if you can get this one before the end of the satsang and you post it here. It's very nice. Also the bad things, the bad cousins, the mafia comes now. Thank you, thank you. Very good. Okay, dear Father, please confirm if every moment is an opportunity to disidentify completely with the mind, then I think I recall you saying this once. Yes, you see, actually every moment you are free from identity. So every moment is an opportunity to recognize the disidentification. But we can say like that, we can say like that also, that's fine. Okay, Sita wants to come.

Hello. I was not quite sure about coming or not coming, but maybe it's good to bring this to you. And it's about not liking myself. And yeah, this was such a feeling. It was just like it was covering my life, but it turned into like something which comes up—let's say I'm just made up for now, just once a month or something. But when it comes, it's just so, you know, too much identified. Like I truly don't like what I am and this representation, you know. I don't like this immense wanting to change it actually. And again—

Don't you like—can you give me a specific, more specific example? Like what do you think? You don't like your nose, your eyes?

No, not by the—it's not about body. It's about how I experience myself.

Which means what? Emotionally or pain?

Not emotion, but what I am in relationships, in connections. And it's like—

Even though I'm being slow today, but just so that we can define exactly what we are looking at: is it what words you speak when you are in a relationship or how you become controlled?

And I again and again do this. And when I don't try to fit in that rule, it's again same thing. It again turn into same queen and this time I—that's one again, the same one, and try to other way and it's again like this. And yes, so—

So you feel like you become too submissive, or what is it? May you repeat?

Yes, you feel like you become too submissive in a relationship or you become too strong? I just want you to expose it also. It can be surrendered and not hidden behind any sort of—

Yeah, because it's exposing. I was not even expecting that I will be thinking about this thing because I try to not show it, you know, because it's kind of a shame what I am. And it's like, I don't know, maybe I always behave like I felt so apologetic and always like over-sweet or something, and always like—like I always hold back my power and behave very weak. And I do this, and I don't know how do I do this, but I do it.

And I'm glad you shared. I'm glad you shared that because till we come to this openness, till we come to this emptiness that I'm talking about, it can seem like our life gets played out through the lens of our conditioning and our belief system. And in our belief system because of—sorry Father, can you please begin again? I'm saying that till we come to this radical openness and emptiness, what can happen is that our life seems to be played out through the lens of conditioning and through ideas of good, bad, what we learnt maybe as children or while growing up and then later. So they seem to define a way to exist, you see. They seem to define a way to exist. And many times till we come to this freedom, we feel like we have to conform to that way to exist. Then when as we are coming to this freedom, what you will see is that existence doesn't need any help in that way, you see. It in fact is creating all of this movie moment to moment. So how this one character in the movie has to play out is completely free for it to play with, you see. So we can let go of all of these conditionings, vasanas, tendencies. We just made boxes around what is good behavior, what can I see, what can't I see, what is right, what is wrong, you see. We are too much caught up in these things. And I'm glad you see that because you just let go. And as we let go, what can happen is that for a while we feel, 'But how will I, you know, how will I talk to other people? How will I respond to things?' And then as you kind of—this kind of fear comes. And then you see that actually it just happens in its own way very nicely. We don't even have to say nicely; it just happens as it has been to. And then that whole burden of trying to exist in a certain way, you see, is gone from us. You see, that's why freedom is such a relief. It is more a relief than anything else, you see, because I don't have to be anything. I don't have to live up to some idea you have about me, you see. I don't have to conform to some notions, you see. It's just whatever shows up in the moment. It is like living like a child. As little children, we don't have any of this, you see. It's only after we are two, two and a half years old, then we start believing some of these ideas about ourselves and then all this play starts. Till then it's all just moment to moment and it's just fine. Life is taking care of everything. And we feel like, 'Oh, but I'll just start acting so dumb,' you see. But the life force, this life, life itself is the supreme intelligence and knows exactly how everything has to move.

May I add something too? And this is also related with this because I was playing and my role was like, you know, I don't know the word exactly, but this little easy and weak one. I forget what I was going to say. Yeah, I fear to get reaction from people because my even little 'no' becomes so offensive for people, you know, because they don't expect or something. And my little power just—'What are you saying? How do you behave like me like this?' And I see and just too much reaction comes through me and even though it's very natural and actually normal thing and even though everyone always doing this. But yeah, I also want to share.

Because what happens is that the other, the seeming others around us, also get used to projecting us in that way and make that box, the same box that we create for ourselves. Then others also put us into that box. And when you try escaping that box for yourself, you see, then others will also say, 'Hey, why are you behaving like this? What's wrong with you?' You know, this kind of thing. Because everybody likes to—your box is part of their box, you see, if you know what I mean. Like all the boxes of every relationship that we have constitutes our box. So you have an idea of how Ananta should be or should not be, for example, of what a master should be like or should not be like. A master could have an idea of how the disciples should be like or not, you see. So all of these boxes that we create for ourselves are just around these games, around these projections. But freedom is to just not be constrained by any of this, you see. Which doesn't mean that you make a new box now, which is that 'I'm going to be rebellious and I'm going to be super ultra powerful superwoman' or something, you know. It is none of that because that is a new box, you see. But just open and empty. Open and empty. From that, if one moment superwoman and one moment it doesn't matter, you see, it doesn't matter. It's all okay. So don't exchange the box for a new box because it doesn't work. I tried it already.

It's the other queen which I was talking about. Yeah. And you know Father, a little while ago I—just so much arguing has come up and like I was arguing with everyone on the streets, everywhere, in even holy places. But somehow it was just so, just so true, you know. When I shout or when I argue, it was just so true. And somehow also the connection, the argue was turning into very something beautiful. I cannot—I don't—

So don't exchange the box for a new box because it doesn't work. I tried it already. It's the other queen which I was talking about. Yeah, and you know, Father, um, a little while ago, I—just so much arguing has come up and like I was arguing with everyone on the streets, everywhere, in even holy places. But somehow it was just so, just so true. You know, when I shout or when I argue, it was just so true. And somehow also the connection, the argue was turning into very something beautiful. I cannot—I don't know how—but even arguing itself, just like a burping, and it was the experience so beautiful. And yeah, I wanted to share this too. Thank you so much. I was not expecting this. It's also become a surprise for me. So thank you.

Okay, we have a few hands up. Hello. Nice to see you again.

I didn't know if I would speak or not because I'm in a very deep physical pain. Um, yeah, I did the tour of Arunachala barefoot on Monday and since then I have a lot of sciatic pain. Like the calves and the hips are really, really in deep physical pain. So I wanted to your blessing and if you have any advice how to let go. I have a strong feeling that even the physical unfolding is a lie. Even that pain is a creation in a way that is not the real. But how to go through that and just stay present of that and we trust that this—yeah, I cannot walk at all right now for the last two days and I go through some emotions. And I could even forget about it in your presence. It's very—it's bringing a lot of peace and relief. But I have a feeling that—a strong feeling that even the body is a creation and even that blocking and that pain is—it is an illusion deep inside. It says like that, and still it is there.

Very good. So firstly, um, all my blessings, all my love, and all that, which your body be fully healed by Guruji's grace, by the Master's grace. Thank you. All Arunachala's grace and everything that is being released in this beautiful, auspicious journey that you undertook. You see, everything is being released in this way. So, so I'm happy to—I'm happy that you undertook this pilgrimage and you walk bare feet, which is very, very beautiful and inspirational to all of us. So very, very good. Very, very good.

Um, your intuitive feeling which is telling you that even this pain is coming and going and therefore not reality is absolutely right. It is absolutely right that from the highest perspective, the entire play of this body-mind is ultimately unreal. But my advice would be that for now, just allow yourself to remain open and accepting of everything that is showing up for you. And then as this pain gets better, then we talk about that unreality or reality of it when we meet next time when you come. For now, what I want to give you advice is that any pain, when it is met with openness, you see, it feels—it feels easier to manage. But if it is met with any sort of resistance—and sometimes it can play with the resistance of trying to push it away because it is not real—that's why I'm not talking about that aspect yet.

So just there—in fact, there are medical studies on this where in the hospital they did a study where some patients were told to accept, accept whatever they were experiencing fully, fully. And they found that that experience became a lot easier. It was not that the pain fully went away, but they found it easier to deal with. That accepted pain is much more easier to handle than any sort of resistance that we make to the pain. So, um, all my blessings are there. All of Bhagavan's grace and Guruji's graces is with you. And it has arisen only as a release after such a beautiful pilgrimage that you endeavored to do. So only grace will come from this and—and may—may your body heal in a very beautiful way.

Thank you. For now, just don't think about it. Don't even figure out whether it's real or not. You just—it's a beautiful insight that you're having and we'll look at that for sure. But uh, don't give that insight to the mind at all at the moment because it will try to resist the pain using some conceptual insight. So let your insight remain intuitive and in your heart, and we will dive into it a bit when your body is feeling a little better and you have actually the space to explore that. For now, just as—as open a space of being as possible, you see? Try to identify with the space in which all perceptions are appearing rather than just identifying with yourself as the body. Just identify as much as you can—no forcing, just as much as is natural—with the space in which all perceptions, including the body, are being experienced. Don't pull any experience closer, don't push any experience further. Just be the space in which all of this is coming and going. And the feeling in my heart is this will—this will heal very well very soon. And then we can look at the nature of—because your other question is about the nature of reality itself. So we'll look at that a bit more closely as—as you have a little more space from this pain. Thank you and congratulations once again for finishing this pilgrimage. Now I remember that uh, I was there with Guruji when we undertook that, and he was very, very happy once it was over. He was so—he told us all that we are so blessed that—

Thank you. Hello. Hello. So I always feel a sense of self-judgment when there's emotion, when I talk about emotion, because I want to go past that. But today it feels like it needs to be exposed and maybe you can help me in that. Yes, it's old. It's—it's not—it's a lifetime's emotion. Like, it's—I know that this isn't new. Lifetimes of this. And—and it's in my heart and it blocks from love and being soft. And I want to be soft. I don't want to be hard and I don't want to create violence through these emotions, even it's not physical violence. Yes, yes. But it's still violence that I'm adding to the world and it's—it comes and when you say you mean more of a open—more of an open space rather than a higher love. Yeah, love instead of protection. Yeah, and the protection is creating the violence. Yeah. And um, it comes in the form of anger or judgment. Um, in my whole family has it, so we all get to transcend that. But I just wanted to expose it because I don't want to keep doing this game of back and forth. Like, I come to clarity and then it's like identity comes back and I don't want to keep playing that game. So whatever it is—identity comes back, you said. Yeah, just like some problem comes back that needs to be transcended and I don't want to keep—I just want it all to go. Whatever's hiding, I don't want it to come in little spurts here and there. Just all go.

So I hope that just in exposing it is this which can seem so heavy and like you say it's been there for lifetimes and you also said that it's like your entire family has these things. May all of it um, get lighter and lighter and lighter. The light becomes light as a feather, you know? In this world nothing fully goes or fully comes. Nothing. Just you can just become more and more open to it, but everything can remain in small, small quantities. In fact, the mind uses the idea of 'fully, fully' to—to set it up for failure, you see? Because sometimes you could be fully open and empty and things would be—then something may come and some anger may arise. But if you judge yourself harshly because of that and say, say, 'I lost my freedom and I want this fully gone,' then it keeps us trapped in that thing.

So that's why my prayer is that may become like very light and may become as—as momentary, you see, as a fleeting, fleeting glance or something. So then it's just met with a little bit of openness and it's—it's just light. And—and the difficult part you've already done, which is to notice it, you see? To be objective about it, to be—to have the courage and integrity to expose it. That is the difficult part. Now, um, let go also of the idea of 100 percent gone and just leave—leave it to how it has to play out with Guruji's grace. This is whatever has to play out. So it's not yours anymore, either the doing of it or the experiencing of it, you see? That is full surrender. Like sometimes what can happen is that we can surrender the doing part of it. 'I hope I don't do this stuff anymore,' you see, so that then I don't have to experience this. But then make—make the Master the doer and the experiencer. Whatever is happening is their problem to deal with. Then it just becomes easy and then you can be non-judgmental about yourself, you see? And I noticed this that really I feel like all of my children are so, so beautiful, open, empty, easy. But when I hear reports from all of you about yourself, it can seem like very different from that. So just allow me to—allow me to make the claims on your behalf.

Okay. Marine, Marine can come. Namaste, Father. Namaste.

Okay, you can hear me clearly? Yes. Thank you for this—this moment of being your presence in your darshan. It's big, deep blessing. Thank you for that.

Yeah, I don't have any prepared speech. See what comes up if something comes up. Yeah, maybe I feel to share a bit about—report about what passed in my life like past weeks. I'm a father of three young children, two—two boys like a toddler age and a small girl, baby girl. It's a beautiful journey in satsang also every day from wake to sleep and through the night then. Yeah, actually my—my little children—what sleep are you talking about? Exactly, exactly. For years now, strong practice. So just a week ago my—my—my system, my body-mind really blew its fuse, as I would say. Like very strong, first lots of tightness came and then many tears and then rage really came in the morning after another broken night and strong, challenging morning. Just the fuses popped. So it's very—lots of fire came through me and yeah, and sitting with that and looking deeper into that, actually I really sensed that this somehow in—in—in—in, you know, my deep—my deepest intention is to embody this Guru's grace and love in this life. This is my prayer every day. And—and—and I, you know, in living this and—and—and also kind of—yeah, fulfilling my father's role as much as is my capacity in this, somehow I left out myself, my own body-mind, let's say. My body, my system, my—my own well-being, just my—which I just—well, yeah, I put it aside too much. And it was a very deep lesson actually in—to include that, you know, yeah, in my love for everything and my love for existence, my love for my children and everything that I feel just care and love for, to include my own body and my own—yeah, my own system in that. So it was a very—um, yeah, I'm—I'm happy to share this in this moment now and see what your reflection is.

Yeah, this is very important what you share and we rarely talk about this. I can somehow in some way relate to this even recently, recently in the last seven, eight years where I started having satsang. And what happened is that I noticed that a little bit of dichotomy was being built in where I was doing everything possible for the sangha, you know, through—for my children as I consider them my children. But what happened is I was no longer considering this boy my child. So everyone was getting the attention and love and care except this boy who's actually my first sangha member, no? So then I noticed that—that I would put every other child's needs before this one and that was not healthy for this body-mind. It is unfair to him in some ways. So then I said that no, this has to change and this one also needs the body to be maintained, a little bit of exercise and eating well and some of this thing, just some recharging the batteries because in the sharing of satsang a lot of the batteries get drained out from the body. So it—it came to my attention, like brought it to my attention. And in the same way actually my report was just like yours where you notice that because you have three young children you spend so much time just taking care of them. Are they well fed? Are they okay? Is it the right temperature? Are they—diapers clean? All of that stuff. Then we can forget about this boy also which is—which is you, and that also deserves um, some maintenance.

In satsang, a lot of the batteries get drained out from the body, so it came to my attention—like, you brought it to my attention. And in the same way, actually, my report was just like yours, where you notice that because you have three young children, you spend so much time just taking care of them. Are they well-fed? Are they okay? Is it the right temperature? Are their diapers clean? All of that stuff. Then we can forget about this boy also, which is you, and that also deserves some maintenance. It deserves some affection; that deserves some care. So it's beautiful to see this. Yeah.

Thank you. Very beautiful to hear. And in reflection, I also see that actually it boils down to very simple, actually. Like in this past, after this rage and kind of really zooming in on it, I could discern where, yeah, it's still the same game in a way of really checking what my heart is, how my heart is moving me. And when something wants to do something in the house or with the children, but actually it's coming from a different place, so it boils down to the same thing, actually. Yeah.

You know, sometimes it's so simple just intuitively, and yet the mind has the capacity to create these small blind spots. And there we feel like, 'No, no, no, that I must do for others.' Even one idea like this can then just create like a blind spot, and then life shakes us up a bit and, yeah, we choose. We can't do our hard work or more universal.

Yeah, what's coming up now is, so in this time, I actually felt, okay, yoga is one way to recharge my batteries and to take care of my system. So in the morning, as my family is taking breakfast, I will lie down my mat and give myself this time. And then the two boys, after finishing, of course, they were using me as a climbing tree, which they do and they enjoy. And some idea in me, actually like a spiritual idea, I guess, was saying, 'Okay, I keep my center and I do my yoga and I stay clear with this.' But then actually it built up, and then another moment of anger came. And again, I see that there's a healthy place for boundaries and for saying, for taking space and for putting boundaries, actually, in a moment like that. So it's, yeah, there's this formless being which I feel and which is moving everything, and at the same time, there is a place for boundaries. And I see also how much the boys, especially in this age, they really—it gives them so much and they need these clear boundaries. So it's a very interesting dance in a way.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. Thank you. Keep following your heart as you're doing then.

Thank you. Thank you for this moment. Thank you, Father. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Okay, I asked... Hello, Elena can come.

Yes, hello. Hello. Um, I'm okay. Take your time. Take your time. We have all the time there is. Much restlessness. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Maybe you put on restlessness and things, but you look very happy, actually.

Well, that's good to hear. That's good to hear. I made it a habit to watch one of Mooji's satsangs every morning, and it always brings me back to the heart. So that's a big change for me, where there was a lot of resistance before. And now I sense that I just like to follow such things during the day as much as I can. And also, I feel that it's becoming more clear what he's pointing us to, and that's very—I'm very happy to experience that. And I also find it more and more easy to, when some things come up in the mind, that I can use one of the sentences that you mentioned, like 'keep quiet,' and it brings back the attention to myself. As well as I just keep reminding myself that I am here, so everything that is unfolding, it cannot change this because this is always here. Yeah, so I'm very grateful for that. But it looks like the mind or whatever it brings up more things, especially in the night. But I don't mind because then it's quiet in the house and then it's more easy for me to turn my attention inwards and let the mind run.

I cannot hear you very well, I'm sorry. I was just going to say that I'm so touched by your report so far. And of course, you can speak more, but I'm very, very—that your report, and I can see that Guruji's grace is entering your heart and it is going to take care of all that afflicts you. All that afflicts you will be taken care of. I'm very, very touched by this. You were saying, my dear, as you were saying, you were saying something else.

Well, it's really a great—I can't express. It's more than a treasure; it's a great blessing to come to see that. But then sometimes there are two things in which it might still catch me. So like today, it can be so mean and so deceiving that although I'm aware that it's not me and I know it's just going to pass, it's still... and the mind keeps bringing up questions like, 'What to do with this?' and 'You need to have an answer for that,' and 'See, everything is going wrong, what are you going to do about it?' And I know that's a door in which the mind can come in because I agree, like, I should do something about it. But on the other hand, I can see that it's a suggestion of the mind, so I should not trust it. And I really try to hand it over and say, 'Okay, it will unfold in the way that it's in its own way.' But still, it feels very painful and I don't know what to do with that.

I understand. And actually, you're already on the medication, you see? You're already on the satsang for this. What happens is that because these are deep-rooted habits and conditions, the mind has been believed for a long time; therefore, it can seem like the medication also needs some time to fully... already it's starting to show us the fact that I can already see the effects of it, but it does seem to, you know, take some time to unwind all of these conditions. What will happen is that mostly everything will become lighter and lighter and lighter and lighter. Sometimes you'll notice that the mind has saved up its ammunition, you see, and then fires all the shots at the same time and then: 'I'm still here, nothing has changed, you're still the same, no defense, no point doing all of this,' you see? So it tries to play these games with you. And what happens is that, like I've been sharing satsang, but actually I've been saying the same things from the beginning, and yet almost every day I share satsang. It is because although the insight is very clear and it has also become very clear quickly that the mind is creating all this trouble, but the mind has so many sneaky ways to trick us back into belief, into identity, that the satsang every time you hear it helps you decondition yourself, helps you become a little more open, a little more open every time. And that's how it plays out. So these are conditions that we've carried for a long time, and that what I call resistance management or the doubt management or desire management, you see, that can seem to take some time. The pointing, the revelation, the discovery is very, very straightforward, but to see through all the tricks of this sneaky, sneaky mind can seem like it does take some time. And in a way, it is the process of development of trust as well, because the mind uses fear and says, 'If you don't take care of this, your life is going to become terrible, it's going to be a mess, what's the point of all of this?' And you know, when you learn to just stay with your heart and allow the heart to move whatever action has to happen or not, then the mind will sell you some fear and say, 'See, now this is going to become a big mess.' But you learn how to stay with your heart and then the things work out okay. They don't have to work out according to what we think, you see, but it all works out just fine. And then you learn to trust your heart much more than you trust your mind, you see? And that can seem like a process; that can seem like a process. So don't worry, you're doing well. You're listening to Guruji's satsang every day. I feel you're well on the way. And if you feel like—you know, one tip I'll give you is that when you're convinced you don't want to come to satsang, you see? When you're convinced you don't want to come to satsang, press the join button and come, and press the raise hand and come up. Because the mind will play these tricks from time to time and say, 'No, no, no, it's not working for me, he's so confusing, you know, what I see, does this really work? I have to figure out my life first.' It'll play all these resistances, you see. So my tip is just come, and as long as you come, you're taken care of. Okay?

Thank you very much. I have a request to make my... louder, but it is the loudest and it is actually my throat which is not so strong. So after a few hours of sharing, it becomes softer and softer. People... okay, we can go to Edgar. Edgar?

Hello. Hello, my dear. Hello, Master. Hey, good morning. I followed the example of somebody else who just said that he didn't have a prepared speech, so I'm here. And since like 15 minutes, I was like—all kinds of physical movement inside my body was taking place and it felt so, so weird because since this meeting started, I was pretty calm. And then when I felt it was the time to step forward and talk, I started getting very nervous and like my voice saying, my heart beats faster. Like, I feel very confident right now because no real obstacle in my mind is arising. What if, maybe two hours, three hours later, this passes away? This is what comes up to my mind right now. And like right now, you can feel very confident like, 'Yes, I can, and I can make it to all the day, all the week,' but then deep, deep inside there is some little voice which says that maybe it's not true, that this has happened before. Like, I believe that I was gonna be this calm all the time, but then it passes away. And I just want to share that with you.

Very, very good. Very good. And I want to tell you that you don't sound nervous at all; you sound very nice. You're doing very well. This is very common. The mind will play with this fear and it will say, 'Yes, yes, you're okay now, but you see, it has happened in the past also. You were okay, but see what happened? You will lose it,' you see? So that's why, like I was telling a previous question also, just leave whatever has to happen and the experiencing of that also to the divine grace. You see, let the Divine be both the doer as well as the experiencer. Then you don't have to also micromanage whether you are calm, whether you got angry. It's okay. Something easy. In every life, there will be some little bit of calmness, little bit of anger; all this will show up in life. We don't have to push anything away, you see? But when we are not attached to an egoic identity, then all of it just happens in the right, right, right amount. The recipe of this life is being cooked by the ultimate chef, and the ultimate chef is not making a mistake in whatever ingredient is being added to this life, you see? So you can trust that ultimate cook. You know, the ultimate cook who's cooking all of this is God itself, and He's not making a mistake. He's not making a mistake in the recipe. So a little bit of spice, a little bit of sugar, a little bit of salt—everything is okay. It's okay. Just in that openness, just in that openness, you see? Then you don't judge yourself because what happens with spiritual seekers mostly is that the spiritual checking becomes the most oppressive. Like, 'Am I being free right now? Am I being calm right now? Am I being...' See, we are constantly checking that, and we sometimes become guilty or sometimes you become proud of how God is running this life, but we think that we are, you know, doing well or doing badly. So leave all of that to God. It's...

Then you don't judge yourself because what happens with spiritual seekers mostly is that the spiritual checking becomes the most oppressive. Like, 'Am I being free right now? Am I being calm right now? Am I being...' See, we are constantly checking that and sometimes you become guilty or sometimes you become proud of how God is running this life, but we think that we are, you know, doing well or doing badly. So leave all of that to God. It's all in God's hands and you're doing well. What you're doing is okay. Okay? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Again, I don't want to say this because it's exposing something and I don't want to say... You're going to expose something? Yes, something. There's this feeling that I don't want to do because there's some idea of a person here that it seems like something has been cultivating it for years, you know, polishing it and making it look a certain way. And, 'Oh yeah, it looks good now.' And there's something that wants to show off and it wants to get compliments and recognition and kind of affirmation or, 'You're doing really well. Really good. Oh, really well you said that. Oh, that's amazing.' You know, even the thought of my coming up to expose something is like, 'Oh, look at you exposing something. Aren't you so good at exposing things because you're so humble?' You know, and it's all just this kind of ego, you know. And the body's like shaking now with adrenaline because as I say, there's something that really doesn't want to expose that there is this kind of... it kind of feels like it's ego. And you've got like the work in the shadows, you know, and this is bringing it to the light. And that's somewhat kind of nervousness. 'Oh no, like I've totally, you know, bashed my statue and it's broken in pieces and what am I going to do right here?'

Yeah, that it's so common for that to happen, you know, because what happens is that what we are exposing about ourselves, you see, it can sound like just the worst to us, you see. But the others who are listening are just like, 'Okay, you know, I wonder what the next questioner has.' Yeah, they don't care as much. We think that they do, but just hearing it, nobody is that concerned as we think they are, you see. So what happens with like this kind of thing, the secrets that we hold, you know, I discovered this when I was younger and I always had this feeling that sometimes, you know, when you're a kid then you feel like you did something wrong and you want to keep it a secret. Then one day something happens, you're really relating well with your friends and you just tell them that, 'I'm gonna tell you this, but guys, you know, don't judge me and make sure you don't share this' and things like that. And it always used to happen that I would share it and they would say, 'What? That's it?' It's just because it seems so nasty inside, but once it comes out, it just feels like okay because everybody can relate to it at some level, you know. So it doesn't seem so bad.

So yeah, so that's why when you said that right now, it is feeling like your entire facade and statue is being demolished and things like that, but I found it quite innocent and harmless actually. And I also kind of was hoping, I guess, 'All right, I wonder...' Like, that's just an idea of a person who wants to be seen in a certain way. And okay, so let's look at it another way because what can happen is that we learn that and then the mind itself uses that, you see, to oppress us even further. And you know, you heard about me talking about the checker. So this checker guy can be very sneaky and say, 'See, now this is what is happening. Now you are exposing it, so that again, that is about you feeling special because, hey, I exposed you.' You see? So all of this forms like an aspect of our ego which is very sneaky and it uses everything the master says to add to its arsenal, to add to its ammunition, and says, 'Ah, see, now this is what you're doing. Now this is where you're messing up again.' Or, 'You see, you should stop doing that. That needs to go. See, now you started judging yourself. See what's happening?' You see, it's never-ending that way, you see. So that's why I'm saying more and more these days, just where all of that game is happening, you don't worry about that playground. Don't worry about that playground and tell me if your heart is saying something.

It's just a peace and a silence in the heart. And then there's, yeah, this... it's beyond even these words that I can try to express with. And it's just beyond all of this play and it's... even this that's being spoken now, all of this, it feels like it's just very light. It doesn't have any actual impact on what's, you know, the heart or whatever words.

That's very beautiful. That's very beautiful, you see. So in that instant where we switch out of the intellectual conundrums, you see, because the mind is always making these conundrums for us, and especially in spirituality because it adds on whatever it's heard in satsang, whatever it's read, whatever even past insights we've come to. It makes conceptual translations and stores them in the database of the head and then, 'See, now this is the thing.' And it uses all of these also to beat ourselves up with it. So just see, don't play in that playground. Nothing else in existence is oppressing you. Yeah, everything is so open and empty, clear, no trouble, except that one playground where all this stuff is happening. And even that is the play of consciousness and we don't have to be in opposition to that, but just know that if you enter the playground, it's going to be this kind of fun. Okay, who's coming next? Sylvia and Marina. Sylvia, hello.

Can you hear me? Good. Yes, my dear. Yes, very well. Yes. I don't have a question. I want to thank you and I wanted to meet you again. I saw a change and I can see some big part of ego after I spoke with you and I guess I identify with a small part of ego. I don't know how to explain, maybe you can see that and you can help me because I try to define something. I try to take a shape and to say, 'I know,' to make a rule out of your words, well, out of Mooji's words and...

Very good. This is such a subtle discovery, you know, very beautiful. Because what can happen is that the words which are meant to do the cleanup, you see, then those words themselves, if they're used conceptually and like you say, we can make a rule or a spiritual idea out of it, then that instead of doing the cleanup is adding to the garbage. Yes, so this if you spot already, very good, very good. So then what happens is that you realize that anything, you see, anything when we approach it from our heads, then it is all about limitation and need and grasping and getting busy about desire and time and space, all of this, you see. But when we let go of that, there's never trouble. This is all spiritual pointers are just meant for us to just let go of that, you see. Now what can happen is that this itself, like all spiritual pointers are so that we can let go of the mind, you see, that the mind itself can take on. 'Yes, yes, you have to let go of that. Why aren't you letting go of that?' You see, it becomes like that. So I'm very happy, I'm very happy then.

Okay, it's someone here who wants to let go and to catch the truth. And I see this, I step out, but I step out as a person somehow. I don't... I can just...

Yeah, so this is the thing, no? This is the thing. So that's why I say that if you step out, then you've not stepped out. If you are open and empty, then you are not open and empty.

Yes, I feel like you can meet these words because I hear what you're saying and I hear your insight. You can meet these words, you see. So that's why I say that before you hear the click, before you hear the click, you're already out. Before the click, you are out, you see. Because if you step out, then you are not stepped out. Very good. I am so glad you are having this conversation, you see, because any position you take, whether it be inside or step out, be in the now, be open and empty, you see, don't...

So somehow, can you... sorry, but my internet just now doesn't work. It's something... can you repeat maybe just ten... what...

I'm happy to repeat. Is it better now? You can hear me better now? Yes, very good, very good. So I was saying that that's why I say that before the sound of the click, you're free. Because in that, you have no time to take a position, you see. There is no time to try and be in the now, try to step out, try to be open and empty, try to not identify. All of the spiritual pointings, you see, when the mind tries to apply them, they are applied personally and in time and space. But actually, the way they are meant is to go just like that. So 'step out' is this. This is a step out before you can think about it, you see. This is step out. Yeah, but if you are stepping out like, 'I'm going to step out,' then that's not step out.

Yes, like nobody who is being in the now is being in the now, you see. It is still a position. It is still like a limited idea of ourselves, you see. So to be in the now is to be beyond being in the now, to be just in the now. Yes, you can't determine anything there. You can't determine that, 'This is this, this is the now, I am being here,' isn't it? It is more immediate. It is more immediate and it's more spontaneous, you see. But even the immediate and spontaneous, if you try to be more immediate, you can't be more immediate. Or if you try to be spontaneous, you can't be spontaneous. Yes, so the mind makes spontaneity also into a plan.

Yes, yes. So many who are doing like this know that, 'I no longer do planning, I am only spontaneous now,' you see. But that's also a plan. 'Only spontaneous now' is a very massive plan. You with me? No? You see how much I woke up with this question? I'm so excited because this is very subtle. This is very subtle and that means that you're meeting... you're meeting what I'm pointing to. So very... I feel to share another thing. I, when I meet the master, I see it's just one, one. It's not two or a name or a body. But in that moment, in this moment... so it's possible to be identified with two? With... I feel they are two. It's a kind of separation.

It's just everything that you said after 'but,' just throw it out the window. Okay? You can do it. I feel like this kind of instruction I can give to you because I see the depth of your insight. If you say this to me, I believe and I...

Very good. Okay, everything that comes after 'but'... 'but' is how the mind knocks. 'But' tells you a story. And if you try to resolve that problem, yes, the wrong playground. Okay? Whatever problem it tells you after 'but' is never true. And this is for everybody. Okay? Thank you. I'm very happy. I'm very happy. Thank you.

I somehow... can I, when it comes up, seemingly a problem, and I can give this to the master fully or to say it's... because I heard to other people and...

Yes, okay. Fully, fully, fully, fully. Okay? Thank you a lot. Thank you. So welcome. The master never... will never mind, you see. Whatever you give, in fact, wants everything. The master wants everything. So just give it. Just give anything that bothers you, anything that you feel is a block, anything. Just surrender it. It's good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Maria.

I just felt like I needed to come up because my mind was dragging me since last time. I was feeling sick, but... and today I was feeling sick and suddenly I raised my hand and I stopped feeling sick. So and I felt like I needed to speak to you about something, but suddenly when Sylvia was speaking, everything was fading away. But I do feel like there is sadness inside of me and I do feel... yeah, it's in my mind. It's always in my mind, but I still believe it. That's the thing.

And tell me what you believe.

That I'm a failure at that work.

Me up because my mind was dragging me since last time. I was feeling sick, and today I was feeling sick and suddenly I raised my hand and I stopped feeling sick. And I felt like I needed to speak to you about something, but suddenly when Sylvia was speaking, everything was fading away. But I do feel like there is sadness inside of me and I do feel, yeah, it's in my mind. It's always in my mind, but I still believe it. That's the thing.

And tell me, what do you believe?

That I'm a failure at that work, at everything. Like I cannot achieve anything, you know, especially work relations, emancipating from my parents. What about self-discovery? Also, I'm doing a terrible job.

You're feeling it? Finding yourself?

Well, I cannot like get to grab the book, your book, you know, 'The Knowing of the Heart,' which I got it for Christmas and I only can do two pages. That's it. And always the same two pages.

Two pages is not bad. I want to tell you something. The most important thing that I discovered we can use this life for is to come to the discovery of the Self. You see, that is the most important thing we can do in this life. The rest of it always takes care of itself one way or the other. Even this takes care of itself. But the good news is that if it is truly in your heart to come to this self-discovery, you cannot do it wrong or fail at it.

Well, is it that I can have like a, I don't know, a massive thing in my head and say your sentence, that 'Are you still aware now?' and I am, you know?

Exactly, exactly what I'm saying. That's why to another child in the satsang, I was saying, can you try and be wrongly right now? Is your existing wrong possible now? Everything in existence is happening in the most beautiful way, effortlessly. Are you holding up existence in some effortful way right now? No, you see. Now the trouble is the mind will see aspects of that existence, you see, which you identify with and say to you, 'No, see, you're doing that wrong.' You see, but there are thousands of other things which you are not identified with which it doesn't poke you with. You see, it doesn't tell you, 'Why didn't you climb Mount Everest? You should have climbed it by now.' You see, but if you identified as a climber, it would have poked you with that. It doesn't tell you, 'Why haven't you won an Olympic gold medal in swimming?' You see, but if you identified with that, it would approach you with that. You see? So it is our identification with those things that gives the mind the ability to focus with that. If you wanted nothing out of any of that, you see, that will be fine. How would it trouble you? So we set mentally an idea for ourselves and say, 'To be good at work, it has to be like this.' You see, then the mind will come and say, 'See, see, but you're just here, here. You should be like that.' But all of this is just intellectual harassment. We are harassing ourselves with our intellect.

Well, I guess I have the idea that I want to, I should be able to not to listen to the mind already, you know.

Yes, but even this is the mind, you see. Because if I was to ask you who is he talking about, he's still talking about Maria as the one who wants, you see. Whether it is about not even wanting to hear the mind, it is the same story of the policeman dressing up like a thief and saying, 'We must catch the thief.' The thief dressing up like the policeman, pretending, pretending. I think we've gone on too long, you see what I'm saying? So the advice I gave to another satsang member the other day, which was that you just remain open and empty and keep your spiritual diagnostics, you know, the stethoscope which you take, you know the stethoscope how you take heartbeat, measure heartbeat? Yeah, yeah, you throw that away, okay? Don't measure spiritual progress or lack of spiritual progress. Don't judge yourself on any of that. Just open and empty. That's it.

Why is it so hard to do it? Just start with this one.

No, no, no. God, if you're going to dance to the mind's tunes, which will start with 'why' but 'how,' all of this thing, then it is just the same old mind trick. You see, if the Master is telling you you can do it and the mind is saying, 'No, no, I don't feel like you can do it, why is it so hard for you?' you see, whose voice are you going to trust? Now the mind will say, 'Why can't you just trust the Master?' Please, this is the way the mind works. Don't go into any of those games. Just banish 'but' and 'why' from your dictionary. You see, these are the two most troublesome words ever.

Father, I feel like I need to expose something. Yes, you know what? If it's in my mind, but for 20 years I had like a lot of like suicidal thoughts, like strong. I had a big depression. Guruji pulled me out of the bed. I had nothing to do, like he just like pulled me out. Satsang, he was in Rishikesh, I was here. He woke me up and every time I like, I was here and I did. But throughout the two past years, I started getting sick and I didn't know what it was and it was like a mild hypothyroidism and I was struggling, you know, and I was cranky sometimes because, and my head was really hurting me. And then I found out that just by taking iodine, I was feeling better, you know. But lately, like this, the mind started poking like with some suicidal thoughts which I try not to pick them, you know, because like Guruji made me really strong and with many things it's like his grace has been so big that I cannot like even explain. I will go whole satsang explaining the miracles he's done in here. I just don't want those thoughts and I even was, I even bought a lottery ticket because you say that when somebody has a suicidal thought just to go to Bangalore. I didn't get any, any numbers, so it's like God doesn't want me to go to Bangalore yet. So I just like surrender it. And then I'm trying, I don't know, this is mind, but I feel like I want to explain it. I'm trying to put myself, my own practice as art therapy because it's a body thing that has helped me a lot. And I just putting it under your feet. If it's something that God wants me to do, I'll just like accept it and to do it like without my mind and just doing it with my full heart and with Mother and Father like helping me. Yeah, but if not, I just want to let it go because I don't want to go through this struggle and I don't want this to be poking, you know, like I'm a failure and having those thoughts again, you know. So I'm just like leaving it in here. Thank you for serving. Thank you, thank you.

It sounds like art therapy, you know, it sounds very nice. If you find yourself open and empty while doing it, yes, then it's completely fine. But if you find yourself getting judgmental about yourself and all of those things, then keep it aside for a while. We don't ever have to say 'never again' or something like that.

So only I, I feel close when I just don't try it, you know, when I'm doing it and feel, I feel really open and empty. I feel like I'm, I'm in the Being. But trying to put myself, it's like satsang, you know, the resistance to go to satsang. Once I'm in satsang, I'm okay, you know. So that's, I just really felt the need to speak to you about that because every time I pick the wrong person to talk about that and they try to put me down or they tell something that my mind is gonna grab it as wrong, you know. So I did wanted to speak to you about it.

Thank you for sharing that. And right now what is happening is that there's not much, there's a lot of restrictions to flights and things like this. But once things open up, I'm sure grace will make a way for it to happen. But my offer is still that, because this child came and said one day that 'I just felt like I wanted to jump out of the window,' and I was very touched by that in my heart and very affected by that in my heart. So I remember telling her that instead of jumping out the window, you jump into an aeroplane and come to Bangalore. And that is for all of you, all of you. God bless you and God bless you. Thank you. I love him. Okay, really strong question. Keep, keep your hand up. Batteries are going limited. Who's going to wake me up with their questions? Oh, I, I see. Okay, you still want to come up, my dear? Okay, is it only your audio or his video also there? No, no, I'm just getting it on.

Yes, Father. Actually, it is in continuation with that Mahesh. He was asking about that close explosion partner. Like whenever I try to expose something, then when this comes, this thing comes in my mind, that is mind or notice or I really don't know, but this thing comes: 'Okay, fine, after exposing this thing, my ego is getting a breather, so it's feeling a relief. So better not to expose it, better not to tell, just keep it with you so that it should not get a breather.' That's been confusing.

Good, well spotted, well spotted. It's very good. Is it because you can take my mind? That itself is a great exposing, you see, because this thought can seem like reality to many, many, you see. But you spotted it and you noticed that even this is just a thought. This is very good.

Actually, I couldn't get it to what exactly it is. Is it my mind or something?

Very good, very good. You see that the mind will say, 'No, no, no need to expose because what's going to happen? The ego will just find itself some relief and it'll get some stuff off your chest and no point, you see. Keep it in trouble.' Yeah, whose voice is that? And how to tell whose voice it is? When you explore into what is it representing you as, you see it. If it is still representing you as this body-mind, if it is still representing you as Poonam, then it is of course, it is the mind voice.

Okay, that I couldn't get through. Like, is it mind or really I am noticing this thinking?

No, it is true. I'll give you some more tips on how to distinguish between the mind and intuitive guidance. So first is the presentation itself, you see, the representation itself. But sometimes that can seem a bit tricky, so I'll give you some more tips. So if it is in a rush, it is the mind, you see. If it is something out of it, if it is trying to grasp something, even if it is subtly grasping, you see, but still it wants some, it is still the mind. If you experience the presence of love, if you experience the presence of Presence itself, peace, if there is no rush in the guidance, if it is not saying 'you must do like that,' you see, if it is not pushing you, it is just okay, natural, natural, you see. And it feels like it can wait for lifetimes, there is really no rush, then that voice is your intuitive guidance for you.

Okay, thank you so much. One more thing. You always mentioned this thing like blank, sorry, black space. What exactly is that? Because I just get stuck into that, after that nothing comes.

I say often that the mind will give you a representation of this black empty space and it will pose as if that is awareness itself, you see. Big black, yeah, yeah. But you can just ask yourself, who's aware of that? Is that empty space, is that like an empty dark room? So just use that inquiry: who is aware even of that dark empty space? And I'm happy to hear your report about it next time if you look at this question. Thank you, thank you.

On top of the cake, I think when you ask the question at the beginning of the satsang about confusion, I was confused and then I tried to sit quiet and see what's going to happen during the satsang. And my mind, you ask a question, 'What's there without looking?' and then you ask the question, 'Is anyone confused about that?' and I put my hand up physically but not on the screen. And then I tried to sit quiet, but I think my mind got quiet, but kind of quiet, numb type of quiet. So I couldn't understand much in the satsang and then I thought I should raise my hand because that's resistance.

Good, good, good. So can we, you want to get it fresh? I feel like it's a good way to close satsang also because we started with that. And so basically, maybe I said it in confusing words, what I'm simply asking is what...

I put my hand up physically but not on the screen, and then I tried to sit quiet. But I think my mind got quiet, but a kind of quiet numb type of quiet, so I couldn't understand much in the satsang. And then I thought I should raise my hand because that's resistance.

Good, good, good. So, can we... you want to get it fresh? I feel like it's a good way to close satsang also because we started with that. And so basically, maybe I said it in confusing words. What I'm simply asking is: What is it that does not need any perception for you to confirm that it is?

My being. So that which is aware of that being... that which is aware of that being is, you know, when you say being, it is the sense of existence, the sense of presence.

So this that is aware of even this sense of presence is you, no? Yes. But do you see this you? No. That's all I'm saying. It's independent of perception. The discovery of you yourself, is it dependent on perception?

No. That's it. I'm going to put my mind at your feet to deconstruct all the thinking that comes with it, so please look after it.

Yes, share that because that is the tendency. The coming to the insight is easy, but then to try and squeeze the insight into our heads is what gets us in trouble, you see. So I'm glad you leave the mind here because the mind cannot help you with it, but it will have enough to say about it.

Yes, I think it needs to stay with you for a while.

I'm happy to keep it.

Thank you. And because there has been lots of exposure today of different emotions, yeah, I'd like to leave my anger. When Anna gets angry, yeah, and I don't know, please bless her not to get angry. So I leave all the anger with you, mine and Anna's. Thank you, thank you.

Yeah, seems like I've never sung before. Yeah, I see, that's what I do. What is the power of your... something like that. Okay, somebody wanted to sing. The one who made the request, you sing. Can you put up your hand? See that.

Thank you, Father. This song name is 'Shall I Call You My Lord?'

Thank you. That is very, very beautiful. Thank you all so much for being in satsang.