Wait Inward Facing in God’s Temple with Courage, Patience & Humility - 8th July 2024

So, what does that 'found' include? The feeling that 'I was once lost, but now I'm found.' What does that 'found' actually include? I'm no longer grasping at straws for the meaning of life. I'm discovering what my life is truly about and I'm finding love, peace, light, you see? So it feels like how it would be that if somebody just made a discovery and found the meaning of life outwardly, you see? All the byproducts are there, but the meaning that you're finding is much beyond putting into concepts or into words. So, in a way, it is very similar to this whole distinction between surrender and resignation. On the face of it, like in war or something, resignation is called surrender, you see? That is why maybe the trouble comes from. When we resign to the enemy, then we call that a surrender, you see? But in spirituality, when we say surrender, it is like a child saying, 'I'm tired of walking, carry me.' Like my son was tiny at one point, which is difficult to imagine now, but after walking for five minutes, he'd be like, 'Carry me, you know, carry.' So like that. So that 'carry me' is not done from a sense of, 'No, I'll just live on the road' or something. It's just like, 'My dad is there, he will take care.'

It happens and has to be done. Well, in a way, we also in the human condition find it sometimes easier to surrender when we have no moves and we have no option left. Yeah, yeah, yes, good, good.

So actually, when it is said that we run out of moves and then we surrender to God, you see, we are actually saying that we run out of all moves. But that, you see, and how that is an indicator of our human condition, that we leave surrendering to God as the last move. Why don't we just make it our first move?

So that's where the question came from, Father. I was talking to somebody and there were some obvious things they could do to get out of some mess they were in, to me. And their statement was, 'God will take care of this.' And I've been hearing this for many years from this person. And so that's where I got confused. And in most instances, you know, there's this thing we've heard right from childhood—I don't know where it comes from—'God helps those who help themselves.' And I think a lot of us are programmed like that, that first we should try our best, and that 'we' is this personality ego. At least in common language, that's what it is. I don't think as a kid or young adult I ever interpreted 'God helps those who help themselves' as something more profound than just me doing whatever I can do as an ego. So that's where the confusion comes from. And you know, I'm so happy you just said it just now, that the first move should be a surrender.

Yeah, very good. I feel like we can dig deeper into this because what in this conversation—this part of the conversation—I feel like surrender has been made into like a non-surrender many times with also people in the world when they say, 'God will take care of it.' You see, what is the construct of surrender? Like, how does one surrender? What are we surrendering? You can say, 'Okay, now the situation I'm surrendering, God will take care of it.' It sounds like that, but it is not surrender till we have offered ourself up completely, you see? It's not that surrender can be just like, 'Okay, my life is this entire circle, this part of the circle is not working, so I hand over that part to God because He can take care of it, I can't take care of it,' you see? It's like, maybe playfully that's also okay, but really surrender is to offer up our entirety.

So as we surrender, it is not just a lip service surrender, 'God will take care,' you see? It is really a full offering up of ourselves, which means that it's a costly surrender. It's a costly grace, you see? At least it seems costly. It's actually not, but it must seem risky, it must seem costly. And which has been the theme of Satsang for many, many months, that lip service surrender sounds a bit—yeah, 'God will take care,' 'God is taking care,' you see? That's a lip service type surrender. But true surrender is that, 'I belong to You, Father. My heart is Yours, my life is Yours, every breath is Yours. Do with me as You please. I let go of my desire, I let go of what I think my life should be, because I know that You are the giver, the parent of this life. It is only in Your life that I exist. So please have mercy on me and recognize that in spite of my foolishness, I offer my existence to You.'

So surrender has a—it's a non-trivial sort of quality to it. It's become very trivial to say, 'Oh, God will take care, it's all God's will.' It doesn't sound—mostly it doesn't sound like—but it has to be more alive. There must be a little bit sense of struggle, maybe a lot of sense of risk about it, you see? Because literally you're saying that, 'My life now belongs to You.' And maybe it seems conceptual to us, but that's why if Lord Ram or Lord Krishna or Allah was sitting in front of us, then would we actually be able to surrender ourselves entirely? So what if there was a queue and everyone was coming to surrender to Krishna saying, 'Oh, you want to surrender?' and you know, they were cut up into a thousand pieces. The next one comes, 'You want to surrender?' they were cut up into a thousand pieces. Sorry, the example is not elegant, but would we run from that queue or would we still walk in that queue? That is the risk I'm trying to convey to you. That's surrendering with no reassurance of what the next step is going to be, how our life will turn out, whether we become like Job with a diseased body losing all our attachments, or whether we're made the king of the universe. That is not up to us, that kind of surrender.

So I feel like because a lot of the words are freely available these days and there's so much spirituality being shared—apparent spirituality being shared everywhere—so a lot of these words have just become, you know, trivial in some sense or used trivially. So you may, if your friend is open, you may remind your friend that if you say, 'God will take care,' have you offered your full life to God? Do you want God to take care in spite of you? It is anyway doing actually, but that's another topic altogether. A surrender—when we feel like we are winning, our surrender seems to be the first thing to go. We seem to have a propensity to surrender when we are in trouble. That's why that losing the war—is there any story of a king who's actually winning and he goes to the opposing king and says, 'I surrender'?

I want to hear about this.

I forgot the names, but there was an elder brother, younger brother, and they fought a war and in the end he wins and something—I don't know if he tries to kill or something—but then he gives up everything and he says, 'I don't want this kingdom.' He renounces the kingdom, everything, and he says, 'I don't want something.' In a way, it sounds simplistic as a comparison, but in a way it is like that. As I said in the beginning, the surrender is when you trust and you have faith and love grows, and then you can say, 'Okay, I surrender to that one.' And even though I don't know if I'll get anything at the end, I don't know, and I don't feel bad because I've—

He says, 'I don't want this kingdom. I don't want some...' look, this beautiful announces the kingdom, everything, and he says, 'I don't want something.' In a way, it sounds simplistic as a comparison, but in a way, it is like that. You said in the beginning that the surrender is when you trust and you have faith and love grows, and then you can say, 'Okay, I surrender to that one.' And even though I don't know if I'll get anything at the end, I don't know, and I don't feel bad because I'm exactly okay with that. So, I mean, by some Grace we find a master, and after a while we develop that. And then somebody asked you what you get, and you said contentment. But I find, I really find that contentment, but it came to me only when somebody asked me, because that contentment isn't a euphoric kind of thing, right? Yeah, when you suddenly notice it in your heart that I'm actually content. And this, and even this love which takes some time, have some trust and feel like that. And I really feel like we must be so lucky and blessed if you can at least even attempt this. I mean, to fully have somebody you trust and love so much that you can know, like a parent or, I don't know, even more than that. So just so grateful that we could have this in our life with you. That's... but it's not easy because what you're asking us is really not easy. Because every time there's a struggle that, you know, now you made us so aware of being arrogant, of being selfish, of being, you know, not being... I mean, instead of being meek, just to say, 'No, my way is correct.' And you know, when you said, I read somewhere when Christ said, 'If somebody ask you for your shirt, you give him your coat also.' So today I saw that nor could I give the shirt, nor could I give the coat, but I remembered that that was what I'm supposed to be doing. I was wiggling out of it somehow, but in my heart at least I remembered that at least I should attempt to do this in trust, no? And then I can at least invoke your grace to say, 'Please help me to do this. I don't know how else to do.'

So if we contemplate what we don't want to hand over to God, what we don't want God's will to guide us with, to lead us in, that is where Maya has got us. That is where Maya has got us. So any of Maya's games, when you start, do you feel like you're winning or losing? Otherwise, you lose interest very quickly. I used to talk about this example often, that if I want my kids interested in some game, I have to make them win, let them win a few times, you see? Otherwise, why would they be interested? So Maya's games always start, they feel like you're winning. People even may say beginner's luck or something like that. But with all look so attractive—relationship, money, healthy body, even achievement, maybe for finding the meaning of life—it all looks very attractive to begin with. It starts to become old and shriveled up pretty quickly unless it is being lived, being breathed in God's presence. As to that is what gives it life. God gives it life. God gives us life. And for anything to have life, we cannot... is it... can we give anything life? We cannot. So it has... if there's going to be life in anything at all, it has to come from God's light, from God's presence. It is feel like that because Maya's game is the opposite. It says, 'Rely on yourself. You can do it. You can win.' And the famous last words: 'What could go wrong? What could go wrong?' It all seems pristine. Then you start digging into anything in the world and, ah, oh this, oh that, oh like that. It becomes a never-ending chakravyuh, a never-ending maze that we can never come out of, is it?

So how to live in this way? How to live? How to go through a maze? You know how to solve a maze? See, how do you not get lost in a maze? Don't enter is one, but usually life... like life is so compelling that it makes us enter. But what is the way? Yeah, you get a friend who's waiting at the entrance. You were going to say like that, no? So, and then you get them, you tie a long rope around yourself and you say that, 'I'm entering this maze,' and then this, your friend is holding the rope, you see? So you can never get lost because you just follow the rope back. So use God's light, God's love, God's presence as that rope. You never really lose your way, you see? Because the maze is very compelling. Initially, it's all kaleidoscopic and beautiful and full, full of wonders and pleasures and all of that. But... and every time we convince ourselves, 'This time it is different. This time it is going to be different.' But the human construct is such that egos collide. Our own ego doesn't... is constantly changing, you see, its color. So how will we ever get stability dealing in the realm of egotism, an individual will, an individual desire? So don't chase ephemeral illusions. It's all... that's some little bit we can learn from this old man, that all this looks very rang-biranga to begin with, but soon the true colors of everything start shining through.

It doesn't mean that we apply or we approach everything in a sense of fear or passivity. It only means that we don't lose the rope, the line that holds us with the truth. We don't lose touch with our only true friend, which is the Atma within. Don't lose touch with that, and nothing you will lose in the outer. Because the mind makes it out to be that the spirit wants you to live a life of drudgery, nothing will be there, you live in a cave quietly maybe. And that will be the most, most beautiful experience you could have. But the Giver of Life doesn't want to take all the life away from our life, does he? Why would he want that? The one who gives us life, isn't he the best one to guide us in our life?

Yes. I was going to... I was solving it in my own head, Father, when you were... the question was also coming and this thing what you just said, you know, that the Giver of Life does not want to take the life away. So because it's like some negotiation is going on internally that, you know, like say for example when service started, all the times I wanted to start something, but when that happened, it was just like naturally it happened. But somewhere there was always a desire to do something on my own, and you know, I used to keep telling you about all these things, no? And trying to figure out something in my career. And but all of that sort of fell, and this kind of naturally blossomed without much effort and just feels very organic, organic, you know? So like that also you're saying, no? I mean, that doesn't mean that a relationship...

Exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly what I'm saying. That if we just have patience. A lot of time we get in trouble just because we can't have patience. And we live in an era of—and I'm sounding like an old man talking to my teenage children—but this era of instant gratification, it can seem very attractive that you can get everything instantly, but there's no real lasting joy in any of that. Yeah, so allow it to... but don't, don't even say natural, say Godly. Because many times what seems natural to our mind or natural to our instincts is not Godly, and then that makes us rush. It's only natural in the sense that many... so like you were saying, that we always find reasons and it always sounds like a good reason to not be patient, to not follow God's will, to not wait for him to guide us or to move us. And we rationalize it in the guise many times of even it being natural, you see? So don't make even natural a stop till it is from God. Then don't settle it. And if it is from God, then that you can trust.

And that could also mean really like even waiting, you know? And...

It definitely does, yeah. It's like it could all... I mean, that just means also waiting sometimes, you know? Then the answer might not also be at all in favor of what I want, you know, at that point in time.

Exactly. So our waiting or our surrender is not a genie or a wish-fulfillment technique. Our waiting or our surrender is truly to hand over our life to God, literally. Whichever way you keep me, God, I am happy to be kept. Earlier I used to add this condition that, 'As long as you are with me, keep me in whichever way you want.' But I'm nobody even to set that condition. I can set that as a request, as a pleading. But I promise you that if you remain in that intention to follow God's will in servitude to God, any strategy or tactic or outcome that your mind could be offering you cannot compare to that. Because we forget that the source of joy, the source of love, of peace, all that is the spirit within ourselves. It has never ever come from anything outside.

Father, I felt a bit, um, you know, I... I was this weekend, I did a... I thought I'll, I'll really try to, to, to be with prayer and inquiry, be in that state. And then I got a call from my sister-in-law, and I feel very foolish and very weak because she said that, 'What the hell are you doing all this? You should have come to Delhi because we're having so much fun and you don't... you know, you're wasting whatever is left of your life and what's the point?' Because she said like, 'God only has made all... God only has made all these good things to eat and places to go and look and... and and and God only has made man, woman and whatever, whatever. So what the hell are you doing?' And it's a silly thing because actually... so anyway, you know, one of those conversations. Then when it took me out of my, my, my space and it... for a while it kept coming. Then I was... I mean, in a way it was a... I had to focus more to, to keep the distance from that mental activity. But I didn't say anything to her. I was quiet. I find I'm absolutely speechless when people say anything to me and I, I just get so... it affects... I don't know, I feel like, 'Oh.' But later I was thinking that actually, what... why did I even, for the while, why did it even come into my psyche? And then I was formulating in my head a reply, and then I was thinking that maybe the reply would have been that, 'Hey, listen...'

Authoritative?

Yeah, I really need to have some authority, Father. I'm sick of being a wimp now. So I... and so I would have said that, 'Hey, listen, you know, it's not that I'm in a joyless state. It's not that, it's not that I'm given up everything. This is only an interim when I...' you know, and I know that this is the only true joy that lasts. I didn't say anything.

It's fine, it's fine. Yeah, it's fine. Many times the words also don't come because it doesn't have to become a sort of battle of pride and who's got it figured out better or who's right or who's wrong. I don't know, maybe who's to say? Maybe ten years later I'll say all of this was false and the sort of... there's a name for this kind of philosophy, right? Just not hedonistic, but a little, little less extreme than hedonistic, but just take the world to be real, don't bother with things and joy. So I very much doubt that will ever happen, but who knows? Like, I was an atheist. Who knew that one day all I want to do is share God's love and life? You never know. So, so God has made this Maya. It is... it is undoubtable because the only God is the only light of creation. He's the only one in reality. But is this Maya all that he has made? 'God only has made this' is fine, but has God made this only? Now, what if he has also made a temple for himself in our heart where he himself lives? Where he himself lives. So do you... do we want to... I'm not saying call your sister.

So, but just for the way to express this that's coming here is that the joy in the world, the pleasure of this world, is like a mere reflection of the joy and pleasure that you find when you are in his darshan, in his, in his presence in the Atma. It is the most fulfilling thing that you can find in the human condition.

But Father, in the journey, and you're suppose... you, you, you stepped away from Maya, okay? At least you protect yourself, whatever, your sadhana in some way. So, and but you're not yet in, in that space of that inner joy. So I just wanted to ask, Father, that is there a period which is really very difficult for everyone? Is there... is it very difficult for sometime when you got... when you are like if...

Presence in the Atma, it is the most fulfilling thing that you can find in the human condition.

But Father, in the journey, suppose you stepped away from Maya, okay? At least you protect yourself in some way. And but you're not yet in that space of that joy. I just wanted to ask, Father, is there a period which is really very difficult for everyone? Is it very difficult for some time?

If it is not difficult, I'll be very suspicious of that, yeah. And of course, there are stories of sages for whom it was not difficult and they said it is some prarabdha of the past life thing. But I'm always a bit questioning of a spirituality which seems too easy and it seems too riskless. So if it's not seeming difficult, I usually have more questions for you because there's a rare one who is happy with any outcome, who's happy with anything that God's will leads us to.

There are many things that we turn away from God for, and if we don't have even one of those things, then either we have not looked enough or we are some great sage, so we should all recognize them. So there's always one thing, something that we don't want to give to God, although in our head we are great spiritual seekers. We think we want to give everything, but the minute push comes to shove, I'm good, thanks, I'm good. And if we are not struggling with anything like that, or we can say that we never struggle at all with anything like that, then are we really risking our entire life for Him? Are we really offering our entire life to Him? That is the question.

So there are two—oh, sorry my dear, I know he's been trying to get the question in—but either you're feeling that everything is easy, you just surrendered everything, just surrendered everything, then I want to keep an eye on you for some weeks, you know? Or you're feeling that everything is difficult, like everything is difficult, you see? Then I want to know what tools you're using, what is the method, what is the way that you're imbibing from your teacher? So it has to be a bit of a spectrum like that.

But this struggle, this push-pull, is very much part of that force field. For a while, it will seem like you're a tiny moon that is stuck between like Earth and Jupiter or something like that, and sometimes the gravitation of this seems too strong, sometimes the gravitation of that seems too strong. So between your head and heart, if that push-pull is not happening, then let's have a deeper conversation about that. Because many times we just make our heart and head in our head itself. So we make that mistake where we've got it all figured out in our head. So we've got a spirituality figured out in our head and we've got Maya figured out in our head.

The head says, 'What's the trouble with this? No trouble with this. It's all natural. God has only made it.' Is it so? If God didn't want us to have money, why did He make money? If God didn't want us to have relationships, why did He make relationships? And if God didn't want us to identify as a body, why did He make the body? You see, these can sound like very intellectual conversations, but they're very primitive. They are very kindergarten level because they have no nuance to them. They have no subtlety. They have no room for spaces between words for a deeper understanding. So we need to live more in the gray rather than the black and white.

So she talked about the weekend, so let me continue with the weekend stories. My Baba said, if you think you're very enlightened, spend a weekend with your family.

Father, again, please help me. This is so... my son had a badminton tournament this weekend and through the day I was with him. It was whole days. He finally won also, but all my communication to him was 100% not satsang. Show him, show them focus, show him when he's playing right. So he's getting in between. As a coach or parent, you can sit behind and keep motivating. 'This is right, do this, do it, be confident, show yourself, he should remember you.' And also, 'Show your anger, right? Don't do the mistakes.' All these are coming. I can see what am I talking and it's coming, and there's a part of you that was watching all this.

And I somehow feel that it is required. And that's a very beautiful thing at the end when he won the final, he didn't celebrate. And then he came to me and said, 'I was feeling bad for the opponent.' So I said, 'That's awesome, but if you would have lost, would you feel good for him?' So he was like, 'That's not... I want to win, but I'm feeling bad for him.' But Father, these situations—how old is he? He is ten—these situations, right, how can you not go in this Maya mode when you want your child to succeed in either this or education or anything? It will really take a lot of effort from me saying that, 'Fine, you just don't play.' That's what he wants. I might want... I mean, do I encourage his want or how, Father? It's not easy.

Okay, so like you have the weekend theme, I have the 'not easy' theme. If your son said he always wanted to do everything easy, let's give that son-father metaphor. What would you tell him? If your son said that, 'I don't want to play the next match, it's not going to be easy. I don't want to play the next match, it's not going to be easy,' what would you say to him?

I try to say with the same story that... use wise words. I would say that, yeah, it will be whatever it happens. I always start to say to him, 'God will take care,' and then he comes and says, 'God didn't take care, I lost.' Something like that. So I would motivate him. It's difficult, but still continue. That's what I'm saying.

So that's what I'm saying to all of you. It's not easy. And somehow we expect spirituality to be the only easy thing. Then when it comes to relationships, we know, okay, it's not going to be easy. And when it comes to money, we feel like, yes, it's going to take a lot of work, it's not going to be easy. When it comes to building a healthy body, we say, yes, I'll have to work on it for months and years to give up on my unhealthy lifestyle, and to have a healthy body is not going to be easy. But when it comes to living with God, building a true heart temple, the mind always expects it to be. But it's not easy.

And usually, so many times when I give an answer to someone, they don't say—many times they have said, but many times they don't say because they're being polite—so they don't say, 'Easier said than done,' you see? But in that, the paradigm is already set that it should be easy. It's not easy. It's not easy because Maya is compelling. So at least you've gone from being a full—there's a term 'tiger mom,' no?—so you've gone from being a full tiger dad to at least a little self-aware, saying, 'What am I doing?' Yes, that's the first step.

And that looking at yourself, we are using awareness in a different way now, the term. So as that awareness goes, as it deepens, you can't expect these things to be easy because everybody around us is propagating a certain philosophy and we may not immediately have the strength or courage or even the understanding to walk in a completely different way, swinging to our own beat completely differently.

I've gone for a lot of PTMs and now thankfully that phase seems to be over. Where the classical story every teacher has at least, usually I've seen for kids, is 'So much potential, so much potential, but no application, very little application.' Isn't it? I feel like they just... this is exactly what every parent also feels. 'My child is somewhere a star inside, they don't apply themselves fully.' So they feel like this is the right way to get the message across. So when I used to go, I used to also look at my kids and say, 'Come, you have to work harder, we have to do like this, we have to do like that.' And there's a space for that, there's a time for that, isn't it? Children do require leadership, direction from time to time.

I'm learning that with my latest child now who's eight weeks old. Because my initial feeling was that just leave him free, no designated time for anything, when he's hungry like that. Yeah, it's supposed to be free, huh? Baby is free. And then I realized that after looking at all these ones who've been working with dogs for so many years, that they need a lot of structure. Especially dogs more than cats, apparently. They give you the structure, cats, but for dogs you need to really help them to set the routine, all of that. So good learning for me.

So it happened when you went to the room, so you know there are a lot of monkeys. And I was coming down and these three children, maybe like the sister was twelve or thirteen, and then eight, ten, and seven. So as we were coming down, this big monkey was coming towards these kids. They were in front of me and the small boy got so frightened, he was like, 'Ah!' And then the monkey got even more excited, he was like, 'Ah!' you know. So I said, 'Okay,' and I put them behind me and I said, 'Stop,' so that he stopped. And I tried to say to that child that, 'You know, if you cry, the monkey is actually more scared of you and he gets excited.'

Then I went two steps ahead, but they were also going down. I thought they were going up and they were so scared that they couldn't cross. So I went back, took them, and then I realized in my heart, but I gave them the logic but I didn't tell him that he should join Ram's name. I don't know from where that came, you know? So I said, 'You know, next time if you're ever afraid, you just keep saying Ram.' And I told all three of them, for any fear, even if from your parents, something, you just keep saying Ram. So they looked at me quite sweetly. I gave them a hug. I felt so good. I don't know if I told them the right thing, but I told them the logic. I didn't ask them to say God's name, you know, and but it felt nice to say.

But the strangest thing was that I was not afraid of the monkey, because first I would have been the one hiding normally. They can be a bit scary. Yes, I've been asking this many times, but when you said about 'wait for God to move,' something like that you were saying, then it somewhat became... I could express it more in words what was not clear for me. So 'wait for God' is fine, but waiting for what? Like in the sense, like something I've noticed like all these times when I asked you this question, 'Waiting for God,' like I was waiting for something.

That's a good point actually, you know? It's not so... 'wait for God' is more like saying don't go with your way, don't go with your way, don't go with your way. Because the mind is the first to speak, it's always in a rush. So we just have to have that stillness. Just if you follow every breeze that comes from the mind, then our life becomes all topsy-turvy. If you're stabilized in your heart, operate from a place of stillness, see again, it is now. So 'wait' is not really like I'm waiting for something to happen or some sign or miracle to come, not like that. It is just that we are not rushing. We are not, because the mind loves to rush. The propensity of the mind to rush is what the instruction is trying to counter. Wait.

I wait, and then wait what? What are you... so when you're waiting on the side of the road, what is the traffic that you're seeing pass by? Many thoughts come, urgency, they have some fear of that. In the past, what would we have done? Try to resolve them, figure out which is better, figure out, follow the desires of the thoughts. And the construct of the thoughts, are they taking you to a deeper recognition or are they egotistical? Are they selfish? Are they desiring? It's like that maze, it keeps taking you around everywhere and nowhere you make progress. So on that merry-go-round, you actually never get anywhere by definition. So you can get on the merry-go-round of thoughts and you actually just keep going in circles. So you have the illusion of progress, but actually progress is only when you learn to become still and then you give the gift of presence, the gift of being guided by Him. But for that, we have to sacrifice our individual will.

Desiring is like that maze; it keeps taking you around everywhere and nowhere. You make progress on that merry-go-round, but you actually never get anywhere by definition. So you can get on the merry-go-round of thoughts and you actually just keep going in circles. You have the illusion of progress, but actually progress is only when you learn to become still and then you give the gift of presence, the gift of being guided by Him. But for that, we have to sacrifice our individual will, our individual desire. So the waiting is a simpler way to say: sacrifice what you want in this moment and wait for God to tell you what to want.

Even this? Sacrifice what I want? To some extent, yes. And then what happens? God, how would that look in a sense? How would I... I've noticed, like you see it, how to say... there's no way to describe it, but your waiting in God's temple itself is very beautiful. You don't have to wait... the auspiciousness of the temple is not only when the darshan happens. In the waiting itself, the temple itself, you're waiting in the temple already auspiciously. So don't have... it's not an expectant waiting in a way. That's the essence of your question. So what am I expecting then? Because in the world when we're told to wait, then we are told to expect in a way that, 'Stop waiting, all good things come to those who wait' and those kind of things. But this is not about the good things eventually coming in a way, but already you've given yourself a great gift by waiting, by being in God's temple, you see? You've given yourself a chance at freedom, a chance at breaking the chains of Maya, breaking the chakravyuh of Maya.

So I continue this way, I try to wait, and then something unusual happens and I take that to be God's will and I follow, and then I come to you and tell you. The mind can be very innovative. Yeah, it is not about unusualness; it's about the depth of where it is coming from. So that means patience. You don't have to rush at all. Because that's why I said that even if you're waiting, then that itself is that you're being taken care of. If somebody goes to a holy place but they are still skeptical or waiting for something, they'll still be graced by some blessing; they'll still receive something. So that is not our concern really, but it's of course quite difficult to be fully unconcerned about it because the promise is so high. The promise, what is on offer, is so high that you will find God. So it's maybe impossible to remove all expectation about it, but the more empty you can be through that expectation and just patiently wait in front of God, that is fine because He is always seeing you whether you can see Him or not.

Is the instruction to just keep waiting then?

Yeah, that is the instruction. Like satsang, if I'm sitting waiting, waiting... okay, not in my room. We took that example—I don't know if you were there that day—that we had gone to Hanuman Temple and then we went to Ram-Lakshman Temple close by. So I noticed again, of course we've always seen this, that the sanctum sanctorum is always in a very dark, empty, cave-like space. Now that can seem a bit strange. Why isn't God's place where He is the best lit, the most decorated, the most exciting sort of room to enter? You see, the outer parts of the temple are usually much better lit and decorated and all of that, at least in the traditional temples, in the older ones. And I feel like, at least if you can use it that way as a deeper understanding, I feel like it represents our heart temple.

Because as you dig through all those spaces where so much stuff is happening—firstly, the world is an aspect of your being where all this excitement is happening, light, sound, all of that. And the body has so much pleasure, pain, all these propensities always pulling you. Then emotions: anger, lust, greed, hunger, all these things come. Then our mind is full of ideas and notions of ourselves and imagination and memory, all this so seemingly entertaining. And then as we go into our heart, we come to a very quiet place, come to great stillness, great quietness. And to the mind, it may seem like a sheer nothingness, a sheer limbo sort of space. You see, this inside is where you will have the darshan of God.

So what happens initially is that when you enter a dark room, you see, you may feel that you can't see anything. What happens in a few minutes? Your eyes learn to see; you can make out. As you wait patiently over there, you can't force your eyes to see faster. In the same way, that's why this needs patience and courage. Because like the sister-in-law over there and many people who will tell you you're wasting your life—in fact, most people will tell you you're wasting your life because that is their philosophy. And anybody's philosophy is so brittle that unless it gets more and more popularized, it seems inadequate for ourselves. So we try to convince everybody around us of our philosophy, you see?

But this is the spiritual journey, that this faith is needed. How long to wait in front of God's temple in our heart for the Atma to reveal itself? That question nobody can answer. Has any sage ever said, 'Okay, four and a half years and so many days and Atma will reveal itself'? No, because that is truly up to the grace of God, up to the will of God. But what is waiting? Last time I feel like was completely about what is waiting: facing inwardly, and what are the tools you use to short-circuit the mind's attempts, Maya's attempts, to get you outward-facing rather than inner-facing. The main tools are prayer and inquiry. And if you have an aversion to prayer and inquiry, know that you're in Maya. I mean, if you've been in satsang and you've enjoyed prayer or inquiry or both before, and suddenly you're just like, 'No, no, there's something else which is more important,' then that is a pretty foolproof indicator that you're getting involved in Maya.

So then we talked about the lifelines we can create. Like I have a lifeline of devotional music, devotional singing; that really helps. And if I'm starting to feel like the world is more real than God is, just turn to that. Okay? Turn to the company of those who live in deep faith. There's so much of that available today; we just have to turn in the right way. Don't expect that Maya has given up on me. Maya doesn't give up on you, just like God doesn't give up on you. So waiting is to just short-circuit the attempts of the mind to involve you in your personal narrative and to wait facing inwardly, and for the revelation to happen. And if the revelation has happened, then to stay in that revelation, in that darshan.

Relaxing forehead is also like... not much waiting in relax, yeah?

So keep it like that. Keep it like that. No matter what the people around you are shouting at you, they want something from you which you don't feel like you can give. All these expectations can come, and then can you keep your forehead relaxed? It's a very simple tool, but if you try to apply it, you see that again, easier said than done. Not easy. So just waiting in inward-facing can be a true test of patience and courage. Faith—what is faith? It's not a blind belief. Faith is to only remain with your insight from your heart and not what your head is telling you. And for that, you will be called crazy. They call you silly, a waste, a loser. All these things are very natural. I think from time immemorial, since language was invented, spiritual seekers have been called losers, good for nothing. I don't feel like there's anyone who was not called that. I'm just saying that to reassure everyone that we don't have to worry so much about what the world thinks. Those who are trying to escape the dream cannot bother about what the characters in the dream are saying about them. Courage, patience, faith, all of this. Humility. Humility is very important. Humility is very important and humility is actually the very foundation of the courage, of the patience, of the faith. Because if you are proud, then no chance you're going to be patient. If you're proud—proud means what? 'I know best. I know better. Why wait for God? I know now. I know why.'

And they believe what they're saying is true. I mean, then how is it a lie?

No, if they believe what they're saying is true, then they're not lying to you. You recognize that it is untrue. Okay, yeah. So what should one do? Suppose I'm just saying, you imagine something and then you believe it to be true. I can imagine I'm a king, but I know that I don't have to believe it. But if you imagine something and you believe it to be true and you projected that, you said that so clearly, that you're lying. Okay, I can't call it lying. But I have a feeling that with every one of these situations—and I'm not trying to be something like that—but I'm just feeling like, but I have this affliction as well. I also... I mean, I have this. And do I have that affliction to a greater extent or to a lesser extent? I will probably go on the side and say in all these things, maybe conscience is truly the way I see it's my ego and mind going angry.

Also, what you're saying is that there's one in front of you, if I heard this correctly, yeah, there's one in front of you who really believes what they're saying, is it? But in your benchmark, they're full of rubbish. Someone says, 'You called me a beggar.' I'm just saying. But I never called you a beggar. Three people are witnesses that I didn't say this, but now she believes that this was said and that this is true. And then from that belief, you act. You're acting and your actions are going to affect everybody around you. That is what I'm saying. Okay, so let's take this for an example. We never misunderstood what people have said to us about us? Yes. Yeah, same thing. So we are at least in the same boat, if not worse. All right. So now I'm just going... I'm really doing the ads to look because I can see that, you know, when... so it's very possible in this conversation I say something and you misunderstand. Yes, isn't it? Yeah. So that's what she also did. So how is it to be resolved then?

Just like this, to communicate. But I'm trying to communicate, you're just getting into a worse... right? Because the person insists that you have done this.

So I'm like, no. Like I told you children, I'm also going to say Ram Ji. I will also pray and surrender it truly because I find no other way. It's impossible because they are so adamant that that is the way it is here. I don't know me, yeah, more than me? Huh? But not more than me. But that's not an answer. No, I'm not just saying these things. I'm just noticing them more and more. I was blinded more and more by my pride. The older I'm getting, I'm seeing this more and more clearly. You could say something right now and I could fully misunderstand you. So I could be just like that. Maybe I see that we can fully misunderstand, but when I'm... if you were to tell me that, 'I'm sorry, you misunderstood,' I'm not blind.

Yeah, exactly. You are. It goes on. But that doesn't bother me, whatever they are saying, actually quite honestly then.

But what is bothering? But there's... it doesn't only affect me. It affects a group of people who have to resolve something and that... and that you are the one who's been given the decision to make that decision with this person. What am I supposed to do now? I, you know, I'm just stuck. I'm not stuck. What do you feel from all the satsang you've heard? What do you feel?

No, after today's satsang, I know I'm just really going to listen to my heart. I'm going to just present it there and whether... I'm not going to look at the outcome, whether I'm a loser or a winner or from my mind.

Did I get the entire conversation we just had? It can seem difficult. It can seem like it needs a lot of patience because the other seems so clearly wrong, you see? Especially in those cases, it seems like we need to really control ourselves, no? Because we are so obviously right and they are so obviously wrong, you see? So we must in those situations even more, we have to wait because we haven't heard God's side yet.

Look at the outcome, whether I'm a loser or a winner, or from my mind, that did I get the entire conversation we just had? It can seem difficult. It can seem like it needs a lot of patience because the other seems so clearly wrong, you see. Especially in those cases, it seems like we need to really control ourselves, no? Because we are so obviously right and they are so obviously wrong, you see. So, we must in those situations even more—we have to wait because we haven't heard God's side yet. Heard about her side, your side, God's side. So there's a timeline with the court or whatever, but it's okay, I can still wait. I can still wait. God knows the timeline, no?

I know that this is very good because this is exactly the kind of tantrum we throw with God. "Yeah, how long you want me to wait?" There are so many songs also like that: "How long, Lord, how long?" No, no, no. God should operate on our timeline because we need to remind Him that there is a good deed that came. So, the thing is, it's like in the movie you're reminding the projector, huh? The characters in the movie are reminding the projector of the movie, "You know the next scene is coming, you better be prepared." Sounds so funny now.

Father, when you're in it, it really doesn't feel... exactly. I mean, but like he said, I mean, I was still aware that I was being bad, you know what I mean? I was aware that I'm not exactly doing what I'm supposed to do, just going on and on like a machine gun.

It was your intention to fight that? If your intention was to fight that, then it's good enough, truly. Whether we succeed or not, we don't have that much power to control. But at least when we notice that we are falling for the mind's tricks, did we turn to our inquiry? Did we turn to our prayer?

Well, I didn't have much time, we had to come to satsang, but at least I stopped arguing and I just... what happened in that situation, I'm saying for the future, I don't want to... for the future, not post, just saying that you mentioned, right? Stop arguing and not saying, that's also a trick, right? My mind in the background says, "One day you will know I'm right. Now I'm not saying, you will come to me." So it's again going back. It will not... for you, it will be the mind saying, "Okay, I'm right, I don't want to prove it to you, you will realize one day." So again the ego is...

Yeah, yeah, of course. No, I have done this so often. No, I think I'm going to lose more money. My story: listen to God, lose my... you know, He's so kind, so much without even asking. I can't even complain about that. Money, human love, family of affection—same thing, the same old stuff. It's not so complicated, but when they intermingle these variables, then it seems so... our life story seems so unique and special to us. Same old stuff. You were born, the body was born from the mother's womb, it's going to end up on a funeral pyre or under the ground. What happened in the middle is not so important unless you can turn your direction fully towards God.

The ones who have made a lot of money have come and gone. The ones who had the best relationships have come and gone. All the best bodybuilders have come and gone. The biggest intellects have come and gone. Give yourself a different approach. Find your eternal life and God's life in your heart.

Um, just wanted to share something and then maybe a question on that. Um, so to the point of waiting until something happens, I started doing ADS maybe a little over a year ago, right? And um, my experience has become that I need at least a couple of hours, or maybe three hours, unstructured free time in the morning after waking up. Some days I just, like you said, you know, just be there in God's presence. And there's no need to do anything unless it comes naturally. And now some days it's... I could be just in that place for two hours, some days for an hour, some days for thirty minutes.

First, it was very uncomfortable to allow myself that much amount of time because, you know, the traditional habits of productivity, all that, all that jazz. Now it's... I'm very comfortable with that and the body just responds and things start happening like you said. Last three or four days... now my question is, last three or four days, I think I heard your... I missed a couple of satsangs, I heard the highlights of one where you're talking about, "Hey, if we are doing everything that we are imbibing in satsang, then how can there be any suffering?"

And that led me the last four or five days to observe—not that there's been a lot of suffering, but just actively watch, like, okay, when do I get out of God? So, like I said, the morning starts with ADS and then actions start happening. It's still all... I feel like I'm living in presence. And then it's like a projection room in my head. One projector starts, then I have to quickly shut it off, you know? Because it's almost like you said, this Maya initially wants you to win, exactly. So I started noticing that there's this temptation to let that projector keep running, and then before that, I'm already in the movie.

So last four or five days, the quick switch-off has been happening. Now what that has led to is a very neutral, more relaxed space, but it's very different than the morning ADS in the sense that that morning ADS is like very deep. It's got this texture of bliss and, you know, it's only beautiful things to say about it. Rest of the time when I'm switching the projector off, it's okay, it's no problem. But that...

How are you switching it off?

Just not going, just being empty. Yeah, just like, "Hey, the projection has started," just going to awareness and it stops until the next projector starts, you know, the next movie starts and so on.

For approximately how long do you get involved in the movie? I know it's impossible to...

No, no, it is, because I have just been looking at it very academically in a fun way. Um, I think maybe three or four sentences in the movie, like thought sentences.

So if I'm getting this right, you're doing the ADS, presence is so apparent, it's usually so beautiful. Sometimes it takes a second, sometimes it takes three hours, but whatever it takes is fine. And then you start the rest of your day, and in the rest of the day you notice your mind starting some narrative story, something which is compelling, pulls you. Now you're saying that you notice that, and when you notice that, you're able to return to your two pillars, emptiness, and this passes. Now you're saying you usually notice it after three sentences?

Yeah, like the longest time I'd be engrossed in the story seems like two or three sentences. Like, okay, I'll think, "Hey, that guy shouldn't have done this," and you know... but so by the time these three sentences are over, it goes back, right? That's very good. Then sometimes...

So then you remain empty for...

Yeah, then it's... I'm empty and either I'm working or I may be listening to music or not doing anything, just sitting also. So like I said, it's... sorry, how long it could be? Sometimes in the afternoon I just sit on my couch, I'm not even meditating or like actively doing like an ADS, just trying to do pure perception in a way. Could be an hour, sometimes hour and a half. But what my question is, in that one, one and a half hour or even otherwise where I'm switching off the projector, it's a comfortable space, there's nothing to complain about.

It's just more curiosity. I wanted to understand from you is, when it's an active ADS where I'm going inward and I'm trying to meet God, right? That's very rich. The rest of the time is comfortable, but it doesn't feel rich. And I'm not reporting it as a problem, I'm very happy that I'm even there, ecstatic that I'm there. But then the temptation comes like, "Oh, I should again... if I'm sitting in the afternoon, I should listen to Ashtavakra Gita again." And I've already heard it in the morning for one and a half hour, but then there's this temptation. And so I think somewhere I'm feeling like, am I looking for an experience which again is some kind of seduction, a different kind of seduction? Or is it okay? You know, it's okay if I feel like listening to Ashtavakra Gita and I get into that deep, rich place. What's the problem in that? It's kind of vaguely my...

So have you tried one day to just do the ADS, do the Japa, do just constantly?

I have not done it constantly now, but when I'm not doing a task or an activity, there's definitely a conscious inward posture, I would say. There's inward posture. Sometimes a chant may happen, sometimes a question may arise, "Who is looking?" It just varies, whatever is happening and doesn't seem like a project, it's feeling very natural. Yeah, so that's exactly the thing of can I...

This one... but this is so much... so I think last time I tried to mention that last Friday, same story, that there's one mode, Maya mode, you're lost, right? Then there is a God mode with the ADS mode you said in the morning. And there is in between that, I know I am not lost but I'm still not in ADS mode. That's where I think I said last time is, Father, please correct me, in the second mode I was not able to pray. And if only in the first mode where there is ADS, prayer is also happening and I'm also aware, then I realize the second mode is also sort of a fall. Please guide in that direction.

So I feel like to be open and empty, to be in pure perception, is like the bird is... the eagle is just floating. It's not flapping its wings anymore. It's just come to a point it's left the gravitational pull so much it doesn't need to exert so much pressure. So it's just cruising. And it starts losing that momentum, then it starts to flap again. Now what sometimes I pick on is that when someone says that, "For me, I can always just cruise, but I can't fly if I'm just flapping all the time," you see? So then that becomes confusing to me. With flapping you can't fall to the ground. And that was the theme of that satsang which you're talking about.

So that's why my question to most of you these days—and I'm going to answer your question, both your questions, don't worry—is that when you report on your suffering and you say, "But I'm praying all the time," both in my experience cannot be true. So we must be taking some time out from our prayer. From our prayer, inquiry, being in God's presence, whether flapping, cruising, whichever way of flying, we must have taken a break from that to go and pick things on the floor, isn't it? It's not possible to do without that.

See where if God is the center, God is the focus, the "me" cannot suffer or propose... the mind cannot propose a narrative of the "me" suffering, you see? And that is the only way we suffer. So if God is at the center, then we are fine. Now what will happen is that many times the mind will use narratives to convince you that you're always like that, you're always floating or you're always praying or you're always inquiring, you see? So a good... I feel like a good method to check that is that if you're always able to remain empty, then one day just try to pray all day. That should be easier because you're giving yourself the momentum, you're literally giving yourself the firepower to go higher so you can't fall to the ground that easily.

And that is the conversation we were having, that when we do that—and that may not be your case—but many children have found that when we do that, we notice that there are many subtle messages that the mind keeps giving us through the day, and those we don't notice until we are trying to consciously do a prayer constantly, and then because that flow of that prayer breaks, we notice that, you see? So it's a good experiment to see that. Now, so maybe one day, one weekend or something where it's not too much, just say today I will...

I don't want to call it a problem, so my situation is slightly different in the sense that let's say I came to satsang right now, it took me thirty-five, forty minutes. I was tempted to listen to Ram Das's kirtan because I really like that, but something said, "You know what? Just stare out of the window." Just staring out of the window, it's best description maybe like pure perception with a few events of turning the projector off. But when I'm doing that drive, yeah, it...

Something where it's not too much. Just say today I will—I don't want to call it a problem, so my situation is slightly different in the sense that, let's say I came to satsang right now. It took me 35, 40 minutes. I was tempted to listen to Ram Das's kirtan because I really like that, but something said, 'You know what? Just stare out of the window.' Just staring out of the window, it's best description maybe like pure perception with a few events of turning the projector off. But when I'm doing that drive, yeah, it's nice and everything, but it's not like rich like the morning ads. Like in the morning, there's a smile on the face, like I can just feel a different kind of thing. And my question is, I'm okay with both, the life as it is, but there's this greedy taste to get that richness.

And that's why what I'm saying is that experiment one day where you do the ads constantly, or at least the short mantra at the end of the ads constantly, and report back and tell me what your experience was and what you found. And there's no path which is higher or lower. Whatever makes it, brings us closer to His light, brings us closer to His presence, is the path for us. So in terms of Am's question, in terms of there's a 'God mode' which you're saying, like, and we can't really call it that because it's truly His grace. So we should just be grateful that He's giving us that grace. We should never—not that any of you said that, I'm just cautioning everyone—that you must never feel that 'I do this and I get into like that mode.' I do this, so I'm bowing down to God, and in His grace, He blesses me with that. So that is the first thing.

Then the second was the egoic mode, is it not? But deepen more and more because that what starts in the morning—I presented that in a way to keep your simple—but that percolates then through the rest of your life and deepens. How beautiful, how beautiful is that? How beautiful that we have a tool that we can use to short-circuit the working of Maya and bring us to our true place in our heart.

Correct to say that maybe like, okay, like we sit in the morning and then you open your eyes and your day begins, and that morning gives you a certain momentum, a certain distance from your mind? Yeah. So whether it's three sentences or 30 sentences or somewhere, you realize a new God. But is that when you open your eyes, would you say that there comes a point when that entire day with that eye is open is like open-eye meditation? Does there come a point where the whole day goes in God's presence? Is that one?

Yeah, like that. Because an open-eye meditation, open-eye meditation—not in my case, no. So when I can't say that I've had a single full day, yeah, with not even a single idea of being believed. Yeah, it's very difficult, no? I mean, all of you get to that point, but I'm still a work in progress, so I can't testify to that experience. But to say that the whole day I was empty, I was just fooling myself, fooling you. Right now it doesn't seem true. But when you say the whole day not empty, it is not even—it is beyond being empty of thoughts. It is beyond it.

It is that it's not possible to be in pure awareness with eyes open the whole day?

No, I'm just saying that if you say that, 'Ananta, do you recall a day where the whole day you did not fall for a single trick from the mind?' I can't recall a day like that. And that's why the prayer of being a foolish beggar servant fits me very well because every day, twice a week, I come and say big things in satsang, but I have a long way to go. So I'm happy to hear these things because they come from the heart. So I'm happy to hear these things and invite them in this life as well.

So you doing the inquiry online, Guru Ji, there was the end, say to do five minutes with eyes open. And I thought that like, that's like, you know, a gentle warm-up to make this transition. Because the transition has to happen.

That absolutely, that yeah. So many have said over the years, so many have reported that with eyes closed, it's so apparent to me that I'm pure awareness itself. The minute this visual stimulus starts, it's not in that actually. And that gives the opportunity for the mind to weave its narratives. It says that, 'Come on, you're seeing a dead body on the floor there, it's a murder.' So it weaves a compelling story based on the sensory perception that we have. You know, like just to share some, you know, like I used to sit with the cup of coffee in the mornings. Like, I used to like that part of the day, like to sit with my coffee and take half an hour. The other day I was about to sit with my coffee and I said, 'I'm not sitting with my mind.' Oh, okay. You know, what am I going to accomplish sitting half an hour? It was that only, to sit with your mind, like, you know, into your thoughts, sort them out somehow, get into some kind of like, resolve something.

You feel like it's helpful for those who are not in spirituality, for those who are not so much in Zen, there may be helpful things who just—they feel like they clear up their mind in some way because otherwise they keep dwelling on that same thing throughout the day. So you designate like half an hour for it and say, 'Okay, now what? What is it? What are we solving?' It may be helpful. But the beauty of prayer, inquiry, any true sadhana is that it encompasses our whole life and all resolution that is needed. Like just in taking God's name, we do a much better job than sitting in our intellect and saying, 'How do I feel? Okay, let's go to Karam.' Hello, hello Father, how are you?

Yeah, I'm good, thank you so much. Not left a lot so. I'm a new parent so, at almost 50, so it's not easy. My last round was in my 20s, so I have seen the—I like, mostly people have said that it's just like having a baby. I would say like, it's about half, half the effort of having a human baby because the dog baby is much smarter. We don't need to—this one is much faster than...

Well, I also wanted—we were supposed to buy one just before coming to Portugal from Australia and we had to give up on her because it would have been too much for her to travel for such a long flight. When I saw the pup, I thought, 'Oh, can I have this human desire to have a home and the pup?' To have a human desire to have a home and the pup? Say again, I'm a bit sleepy, okay, so you have to bear with me. Our accommodation is a bit uncertain at the moment, so um, yeah, there is this desire to have a home of our own, I guess, and it would be nice to have a pup as well. And it's not why I put my hand up, but I feel your presence so much in my heart and I feel it's also higher than that.

Um, I observe myself because I raised my hand at the beginning of the satsang and I kind of observed the fluctuations and what's happening, including with this pup and the desire for the home, you know. And I also heard you saying, um, there was a devotee who said something and you just said that we have to be patient, like sit in the temple and don't expect anything. And that was a big—it was in a way realization in my heart that I was waiting for something. And then I was trying to figure out, 'Okay, what do I have to speak to you about and what's important?' And in a way closer to this, because I lowered my hand and then I put it up again and somehow it lowered itself at some point in time and then I put it up again. And now I think maybe I need—what I see is probably that I like—so my target is to be open and empty, I guess.

And when I struggle, when I'm in the move or activity with the children, sometimes I also notice myself automatically that I say the Jesus prayer. Now, I might also chant Ram from time to time or Om Namah Shivaya, but I know even this morning, like I was in the kitchen doing something and Jesus prayer was coming somehow. I feel I don't—and I was trying to finish—I sat with Guru guidance before satsang started. And I guess the main fire in the mind and the main mind energy is associated with this desire for freedom, you know, and I want it. And you also said in this satsang that you should have no expectations when you go in the temple, you know. And I feel I don't—I'm not able to finish myself off in a way in this inquiry that I'm doing.

Yeah, okay. So let me see a few things while you contemplate what to say further. When it is mentioned in satsang that we come to the end of it, the finishing it off, then it can seem contradictory to when you hear that, 'But it's a lifetime project and I'm a work in progress' and things. Strangely, both in a way are true. Where I'm reminded of Mary, you know, Mary said to Nicodemus that, 'I was one way, but now I'm different.' So where you become unrecognizable from how you were before, and yet, at least in my case, I cannot say that there is nothing left to work on or nothing left to fix, you see? So I feel like both are true in that way, that when I look at the life of this man, this boy, I see that it's unrecognizably different. And yet, when I look at his life on a day-to-day basis, I notice the traps, how Maya still gets me. So both are true in that sense, that God has graced us, blessed us with His light, with His presence, but the instant we conclude that 'I am done, there's nothing left,' then we start to fall for pride because in the human condition there is always something left.

I hear when I say 'finish off' is more get maybe to the highest state, state it's possible for me at a certain moment. It's not—I and I also know Papaji said 'vigilance in his last breath.' So there is no—maybe there is a...

So the question I have before you report further, because that will be important for me to just get a sense of: so you said that you're trying to just be empty throughout the day. Can you just broadly report in terms of how is that, how is that working for you? Are you empty 50%, 10%, 90% all the time with a few exceptions? What is what is your report exactly?

First, what I consider empty is—and I think it's based on what you said—maybe like thoughts coming and I don't cling on. Like 'the dress is green' or 'something is beautiful' or 'Anna is crying.' If the next thought is 'crying, why is Anna crying right now when I'm talking to you?' that's attachment, that's identity. Agree. And then I try to drop that. So that's my practice. And when—what amount of time are you spending in that hypnosis of the mind and what amount of time are you remaining empty? We are getting into statistics because there were days when some identity came very strong and then I had periods when even I was trying to be satsang or stuff like that for like two days. And let's take a regular like yesterday, I'll just put something on the 50 to 70% on average, let's say maybe 60%. Hope I'm not arrogant. 50 to 70.

So yes, so you need to work on that so that it can become much more. Because we must not leave God's presence, we must not leave His life except for the momentarily when the thought offers up something compelling to us, when we grasp the identity. 50%—if it was 50—then to be with God half the time and to be in service to the 'me' the other half the time is still work to be done. There's quite a bit of work to be done. So what is the—are you using inquiry, are you using prayer, are you using just the reminder to remain empty? What is it, what is it that you're using?

I'm using, I'm just using this observer detachment practice from Guruji, which I'm not sure using it at best. I'm also using the Jesus prayer, but that maybe I do it like as a practice. I chant on this mala that you blessed for me one time a day and then occasionally when it comes throughout the day, I will just chant, you know, if I'm driving or if I'm doing something or chants itself. I don't know, I want to say, but the 50% also includes maybe an average of the highest potential that He graces me with. It's not, you know, in my—when a darshan comes, maybe I might be in the Christ Chapel and pray for like half an hour and nothing happens, and then I go out and put on shoes and there is this heart opening, you know, or I might walk on the street and meet someone.

The day, um, I will just chant, you know, if I'm driving or if I'm doing something, or chants itself. I don't know. I want to say, but the 50% also includes maybe an average of the highest potential that He graces me with. It's not, you know, in my... when a darshan comes, maybe I might be in the Christ Chapel and pray for like half an hour and nothing happens, and then I go out and put my shoes on and there is this heart opening, you know? Or I might walk on the street and meet someone. Um, and let me clarify further in terms of what I'm asking. So I'm saying that, um, there are two aspects to this. One is whether we are inward facing, whether we are inward facing, facing God. The other aspect is what He graces us, what He blesses us with. Whether He blesses us with love in our heart, whether it seems like an expansion, whether it can seem like unpalpable and yet apparent light, whether it can seem like a samadhi state, whether it can seem like a no-mind which continues—all these are His gifts. We cannot produce them, you see. So, I'm asking only about the first part, which is that, in this way, how much of our life are we spending inward facing where He is the focus and 'me' is not the focus?

I'm inclined to take like this satsang as a benchmark, you know? Because even in the satsang you can see that the mind goes away. So, and maybe I can say, I don't know, 80%. But there is some... because that 80%, let's pause here for a moment. This 80% somewhere must bother us. Is it not? Mentally, but we must not be satisfied with that. I'm not very good. So then we must say, 'Okay, now this is the temptation from the mind which pulls me out, pulls me into the narrative of the me. I'm going to inquire, or I'm going to pray, or remain empty, be detached, witnessing,' whatever the tool is that we are using. And that if God is available for me in my heart, yeah, 20% of that time I'm not spending with Him while He's available, then that is the time that I'm wasting in my life. And we have to reduce that time that we are wasting, isn't it?

And this is why I'm here, you know, because I'm conscious of this. Yeah. And I could see the pop in the house, or should I... and what I do when I see these thoughts coming in, I maybe I make a quick prayer to offer it up. If I see there is arrogance... or I also feel, and maybe I want to confirm with you, like, I guess because in satsang and when I'm in this sadhana, either prayer or observation, I think there is more opportunity for the mind to be exposed.

So even in your reporting, I notice there are two modes. One is when you're trying to rely on your intellect and memory, and the other is where you just stop yourself and you try to speak from the heart. So just stay in that second mode. You don't have to rush. You don't have to worry. And this is for all of us. We must notice this about ourselves. I notice this about myself as well, that sometimes it can feel like we have to rush, so we go to our, you know, the instant fast food french fries available in the head and our memory. But it's better to just go to the honey deeper in, to allow that to express itself. And then that percolates in the rest of the time as well, you see? And then that becomes satsang from both sides, because both can then speak from God's presence. Yeah, you see? And if you have the joy of being with Him 80% of the time, then I also want that joy when you speak to me. Let me also sense Him 80% of the time and the 'me' 20% of the time. Why you deprive me of that joy of His company?

It's just in the simple, simple thing like this where the mind trips us up, that 'I'm coming up now on the hot seat' or whatever, and 'now I have to say something.' So then we take the quick approach of, 'What did I want?' Like that, you see? Because it feels a bit too vulnerable, it feels a bit too naked to just not know what is the next move, what to say next. But that's how we learn to rely on His grace.

What came to me was just to say, 'Bless you, Father.' Only with joy. And this percentage is really confusing because it really goes to the mind. And I can see a resistance. Like, I did ask myself in the past, because of this question, now next time my report will become 65%. I'm going to do a time sheet.

Look, yeah, yeah, that's it. That's the solution. Just kidding. But we have a sense somewhere in our heart. We know, isn't it? Because I don't feel like there's anyone who doesn't have a sense of this. Like, we might not like the answer we get in our heart, but somewhere we do have a sense of this: 'Am I really living my life in His life, in His presence, with some rare moments of weakness and falling for Maya? Or is it actually the other way around, that when I'm in trouble in Maya, do I go to Him?' And those are the two extreme cases, right? So somewhere in the middle we find ourselves.

Do I know who I really am, Father?

Do you know who you really are? You have to tell me that. That should be my question: Do you know who you really are? It's not like, 'What is the capital of Zimbabwe?' and if you know it's Harare, then you know the answer. It's not like that. Nobody can say 'I really know who I am' or can really say 'I don't really know who I am,' because the answer varies moment to moment. When we are sitting in the force field of Maya, you may be the greatest sage, but you don't know who you are. You may be sitting in God's presence and you may be an eight-year-old child, and you know who you are. So it's not in that way that anyone can say. Why is it so fluctuating? Mind is fluctuating, but you don't fluctuate. Mind's job is to fluctuate. You can watch it. You return to your heart.

It's uncomfortable to ask these questions sometimes and to face these questions also sometimes, but it's very good to really look at our life. Really look at our life. Otherwise, it just becomes about how we are in satsang, what is the insight I had three years ago and five months ago, and these kind of things, which is not what spirituality is about, no. It's more about this... this is very... I was going to say pregnant. Who is this now? You know, now what's... now you asking me or you telling?

I'm asking myself. It's not important.

Like you say, how it's experienced or, in a way, what is important is that in this moment, we can be with the mind or we can be with God's light. How are we using this moment? This moment. So we start the day with God's presence, and it doesn't matter. Some days it takes a moment, some days it can seem to take a longer time. And then at the end of the day, we give thanks to Him for blessing our day with love and light and presence. And we just remain in our heart temple throughout the day where we are blessed with true insight, Atma Gyan, self-knowledge—the highest you and the highest about who we are. That doesn't change depending on whether you've had that insight a million times before or this is your first time, you see? The past in that way is not relevant at all. But whether we are being faithful to God, whether we are loving Him with all our heart, whether we are being humble or proud—all of these are the building blocks that lead us to this true insight, you see? And the true insight then helps us to remain humble as well.

Don't waste a moment away from God. That should be our intention. And then with that intention, then we become a work in progress in service to God.

And when you have this mind energy that you feel it's present and you don't give it any content, but there is some still some desire to overcome it in a way... but to overcome it is to not give it any belief. Is there any other approach to overcoming?

Yeah, at best you could say, 'I can withdraw my attention from it' or 'I can withdraw my belief.' These are the only two forces that work with a message from the mind, isn't it? Strong my attention, yeah. So if you're trying to not give it your attention, then you have to remain with your prayer throughout. And if you have to not give it your belief also, you can just stay with your prayer throughout or your inquiry throughout. I'm using those terms interchangeably now. So just stay with God throughout. So you... that's why I'm saying you'll short-circuit the constant operation of Maya. You were there in the last satsang, isn't it, where we were saying that if you really had to suffer, how many thoughts do you need? Like if you had to suffer for an hour, you need many, many thoughts, all the same thought repeating many, many times, you see? So it is the belief in the mind, the identification, which is much more effort. So just find whatever tool—and you have all the best tools available to you and you're using them—but don't allow any space as much as you can for the mind to sell you a narrative. Because your acceptable narrative soon becomes the doorway into Maya. You are never trapped by Maya from an unacceptable narrative. It is the one that we rationalize and say, 'But this is like that, but it is true that some measly thought is able to represent our life in a correct, accurate fashion.' That is what the thought is trying to sell to us, but it's just not true.

It feels compelling to maybe offer up this spiritual knowledge again and again.

Yes, very important. Offer up all that is going to die. Offer up all that is going to die. And our spiritual concepts, our intellect, our understanding is all going to die. Only our temple will be alive. That is why it is important to build that. Only the temple in our heart will be alive.