To Go Beyond the Usual Modes of Knowledge Is the Yoga of Knowledge (Gyana Yoga) - 25th February 2026

Father, sorry, Father, there are some connection problems. Maybe you can check if the right connection is—

All right, it should be better now. Thank you. So, now if Ram, Krishna, Jesus, Allah was standing with us phenomenally, you see, was standing with us phenomenally, then we would not worry. You say he's actually with us. You see, now what has happened is that what in Maya seems like it's an actuality is the opposite of faith. What in faith seems like an actuality seems conceptual in Maya. And that which seems real in Maya is actually just conceptual in faith. You see, now why do we take on so much burden of trying to live this life? Because we don't have faith in the fact that he is actually with us in this moment. And his being with us actually implies that he is taking care of everything. He has carried us in his lap. So this forgetting and coming into individual doership and reliance on the non-existent one is the play of Maya, and the returning back to the true one in our heart is faith. So by constant remembrance, we deepen in our faith. It's also like a process of development of trust. You see, so basically we are just meant to try it out and try it out and try it out and then we see that he's taking such good care of us. I don't need to worry. So we just have to keep at it. Keep at it. Keep drowning in that holiness in the heart and try not to apply worldly mental judgments about worldly progress or worldly things. You see, but this affliction which you talked about afflicts all of us. The same affliction because in that moment God will seem unreal and the world will seem real. So it is said in India that some believe that the world is real but Brahman is unreal. Jagat Satya Brahma Mithya—the opposite is true. So whether it is whether we live in faith or we live in the mind is determined by what is real for us now.

But there it feels like I live 99% of the time in the mind and 1% in God's presence.

So what percentage of time are we living in prayer, even at this mind's level? Can I count it?

Yes. Yes. Okay. It's increasing at least.

Very good. Very good. So even if it is the mental level, at least it is like a prisoner saying, 'I want to escape to God.' You see? So that is a cry, crying out to the Lord saying, 'Help me, save me,' which is sometimes the best that we can do at that point. So that can be counted. But when we give in to just, 'No, I've decided that I have to do this, I am going to be me right now.' You see, 'I'm on my own in this, all this talk of God is just made-up conceptual nonsense.' You see, those are the times where the ego has us by the throat. Maya has us by the throat. In those times, I need to do something with this hair. It's going anywhere. I have this problem soon. I think my hair is going anyway, so I won't have this problem soon. Now I don't know where this is going. These words are just coming. So what is our relationship with God at the moment? Does it seem like just a made-up conceptual idea to give me some peace, or does he seem like a real presence in my heart? What is the actual construct of our relationship? And that construct will keep deepening as we stay in remembrance of him through prayer, through taking his name, through the inquiry, through any spiritual path. For the spiritual path to be spiritual, God has to become a reality for us. You see, because spirit is God's presence. So spirit has to become a reality for us. Many of us are dealing with spirituality just in our minds. You see, but you would not do that even with the worldly relationship. 'I didn't write to you. I didn't call you because I just was thinking about you in my head.' What is your partner going to say? Not going to be happy. So we have to recognize the reality of God and the ability that our soul has that has to make a relationship with God and finally to dissolve into his presence is the point of our spiritual journey. But the problem is that most of our brothers and sisters have only lived on one floor. No, you only lived on the eighth floor. Then somebody says, 'But there is a seventh floor also.' Say, 'What you talking about? I've lived here 50 years. There's no seventh floor.' You see, maybe on the eighth floor itself, I'll find a secret place which you are calling the seventh floor. You see, maybe what you're saying I'll find that there only. See, because it's so unfamiliar to look beyond our mind-intellect, then it can seem just made up, what is he saying? But all that is valuable we don't know from the eighth floor, we don't know from the top story, we know it only from the heart. So we need a question which is compelling to us but unanswerable in our intellect. You see, a question which is compelling to us but unanswerable in the intellect. You see, but something somewhere deeper knows that this answer can be found. So if the question is 'Who am I?' or even 'What is love?' or even a question like 'Why am I here?', we can't really answer it in the intellect but somewhere we know that the answer is available. So if these questions appeal to us organically, then that's good. If you were a Zen student, then your teacher would have given you a question like that that you had to resolve, but you struggle because you cannot resolve it in the faculties that you're using. So to go beyond the usual modes of knowledge is the yoga of knowledge. Gyana Yoga is not to sharpen the existing modes of knowledge. It is to go to a higher mode of knowledge. This is called Gyana Yoga. Now some of us may be blessed with a sense of devotion, a sense of love for God. And that love for God wants more and more to deepen in his light and presence, to come to his Darshan, to come to his presence first and to then come into a full dissolution into his presence. Okay? Which leads us beyond the mind-intellect. The mind-intellect seems very insipid. Very insipid to such a one. It seems useless, tasteless. You see, so the same point, which is to go beyond the mind and intellect to meet the Holy One in our heart through the process of deepening in our love and our trust, is called the path of devotion. Okay. So at least on the spiritual path, the first step is to say that I will not take what my mind is offering me at least as the complete truth. That much must first be there. Otherwise the narrator for the world, the narrator for Maya, the lawyer for Maya will keep convincing us that this is what is important. Don't worry about that holy meeting. In fact, one of its most devious plots is to convince you that that has already happened. You see, because who can tell? Only you can tell. You see, so many times. Yeah. You see, I speak to some, especially those who are older than me, and I say, 'What about Atma Darshan or Bhagavat Prapti, meeting with God?' They say, 'Don't worry about that, that has already happened for me long ago.' You see? So, and that answer usually shocks me because that is the only thing of value that this one can speak about. And those words are also put in by his grace in his light only. So spirituality is to let go of the complete conclusiveness of our mind-intellect system, to learn to seek in our heart the presence of spirit, and as it is found, then to stay with that spirit, with that Atma for the rest of our lives. That is the very design of our soul. Our Antahkarana is designed for this higher purpose. You see, well, it's a multi-purpose design. Let's put it that way. It's a dual-purpose design. The Antahkarana can be fully immersed in Maya also. Not fully, but 99.9% immersed in Maya. We can immerse all our layers except the very center of our heart into Maya, into desiring, into wanting, and wanting to get more and more out of this world. But that will never seem fulfilling to us. That contentment that we are seeking will not come from that. The only ones that seem content to us are the ones who have filled themselves up with God's light and his love and his presence. So the lane is too narrow. What is the lane? The lane is our soul. The lane is our Antahkarana. You see? Now there is not room enough in this lane for two. The lane can belong to God or it can belong to the ego. Only one can own this Antahkarana. You see, you cannot have two masters.

It will never seem fulfilling to us. That contentment that we are seeking will not come from that. The only ones that seem content to us are the ones who have filled themselves up with God's light and His love and His presence. So the lane is too narrow. What is the lane? The lane is our soul. The lane is our antenna. You see? Now there is not room enough in this lane for two. The lane can belong to God or it can belong to the ego. Only one can own this antenna. You see, you cannot have two masters. It has to be God or ego. So when we make a determination that my life belongs to God, my heart is only yours Lord, then we make that offering to God. And then the process of clean up within can happen. And because we have made that determination, that offering, that surrender to God, it doesn't mean that the force of Maya will give up. Many times it will seem like it's acting even more strongly.

You see, and the gift that we have to be most careful of in Maya are the seemingly spiritual gifts. You see, like the gifts of an outer spirituality that you have to be very careful of. We have to remember that spirituality is about spirit. So Maya dressed up as spirit will not do. Maya dressed up as spirit is the most devious. You see, so don't worry about how the world considers you. If all your neighbors tell you, 'Oh, you've become very spiritual,' it actually doesn't mean that you have. You see, hopefully you have, but just by those outer determinations of people around you is not it. Do you feel His presence? Do you meet His light? Do you follow His will?

So the paraphrasing of the great Sufi quotation was that you will be paid by the master that you serve. If you've done employment for the month with some master, then that one is going to pay you the salary, the wages. So if our life is going in serving the 'me,' how will we get the spiritual wages? But try to serve the spirit, try to serve the Atma. You see, then you will get much more than you could imagine. Don't hedge your bets for some time. Just don't hedge your bets. Just bet on God and see what happens. You're all being a bit safe. You're all being a bit safe. I'm talking to myself as well doing that. Yes, God runs everything. He is in charge of my life. I have surrendered. But don't touch my relationship. Don't touch my money. Don't touch the health of my body. Don't touch what I think I understand. Let's not go there. You see, then what have we actually surrendered to God? Then isn't it just a great convenient self-help method? Which self are we serving?

The 'me.' Exactly.

It is difficult enough when we make that full determination with fullhearted surrender and say, 'I belong to you, Baba.' It is difficult enough even after that. But when we try to balance it out between Maya and God, it is impossible. What are we hedging our bets for? On one side is God. On the other side is... yes. And what does Maya offer? Grasp, grasp, grasp, grasp, laugh, get, collect, collect, collect, die. A serious absurdity that we are on to. You see, what is the point of all this collecting? I'm collecting. I'm making a name for myself. I'm collecting money for myself. I'm collecting all of this for myself. And this self is not real. It never existed. And whatever it takes itself to be is going to die. Yeah. And yet that hypnosis of man, yes. Yes, it's true. But if only let me just get that, then my life is for God. Let me just do this, then my life is for God.

See, so these things come on offer. And these don't have to be big things. I remember that all of this I'm saying about myself. So I can take Ram's name, Ram, but let me first find out what is the news today myself. Let me find out what is India's position in the World Cup right now. I'm not saying any of these are bad things or we must not do. I'm just saying that what is the exchange that we are making. Now the beautiful thing is that as you continue your remembrance of God in the form of the name or in the form of the inquiry, then that stays with you. It becomes a natural part of your life. You see, and whatever attention is needed to enjoy this world of Maya without becoming personally involved with it will be provided to us. You see, this part is important. So that's why I say that first if you have your life jacket on, then you can jump into the pool. It is that make your practice, make your sadhana solid in your heart. You see, don't waver from it. Stay with that and then in God's light, in God's presence, whatever action needs to happen in the world will happen. We don't have to become an outer sadhu. We only have to become an inner sadhu. What would we call one who is outwardly full sadhu, inwardly not at all?

Huh? Dhongi.

So, so this fake sadhu many times forgets his fakeness. Why? Because a replacement for meeting God in the heart is to be considered a sadhu in the world. Isn't it? It's a very massive replacement. It's just like everybody thinks I'm a sadhu. Then do I really need to become a sadhu? How? Everybody already thinks I'm a sadhu. Isn't it? You see? So that is spiritual ego. Spiritual pride. So ego dressed up in spiritual clothes is spiritual pride. Okay. Now our complete life and many lifetimes can be wasted in this spiritual pride. Many lifetimes can just go in that mode that actually I'm not spending any time with God but the world feels that I am. That should be enough. It's not enough. The world feels I'm a very faithful husband but I am not faithful at all. You see, so would that then lead to a healthy relationship, a healthy marriage? Doesn't. No, it's just hypocrisy. It is just made up. In fact, it may lead to more conflict at home because you say, 'But everybody knows that I'm so faithful.' So our faithfulness towards God must reflect at least 0.1% of His faithfulness towards us.

In the sense that how many moments of your life are you okay that He abandons you? Ten? Five? Zero. So we are expecting full faith. He should not leave me for one moment also. You see, now how many moments do we want to abandon Him? So this is the strangeness of Maya. We don't realize this thing. So I'm saying that even if we reflect 0.1% of His faith that He gives us, our faith on Him, our life will transform. We were saying the other day that He is so kind and merciful that He's always giving all of Himself to us. Our capacity to receive is growing as we are deepening in our faith. But He doesn't hold Himself back. It is in this relationship. We are the ones that are holding back. You see, because we still want something from Maya. You see, so part of our heart is always given to Maya and what is left is given to God. And the strangeness is that who is Maya? What is Maya made up of? Maya is just God dressed up as the trickster. God dressed up as the trickster or as the Christians would say that the angel who fell for pride, but an angel nevertheless. So can we make this determination, strong determination today that from this moment on my entire life belongs to God alone? Do with it as He pleases. Yes. Scary.

It has to feel a bit scary. That's what we are saying.

Yes. To offer the fear also to God. Yes, but it must feel a bit scary if you're doing it sincerely or we truly saying that I have no attachments left. I have no attachment left because attachments, when the fear of them being taken away comes, then that makes us cling on to Maya. And all of these attachments that we have are just made up over a period of time. Just made up over a period of time. So we all made this determination. We probably made it many times over many years. Isn't it? Now what is the trouble? The trouble is that what is the massive superpower that Maya has? It makes sense. Forget who does this life belong to in that moment. It belongs to me. Mine. Mine. You see, like Gollum in the Lord of the Rings. 'My precious.' You see, we become like that. We become like that in our texture inside when we are stuck in 'me' and 'mine.' And if you're stuck in 'me' and 'mine,' then what happens to God? What happens to God in that time? Try it out like hold on to a desire strongly. Me, my me. You see, God will seem like a very distant idea and in fact may seem like the antagonist. God will seem like an antagonist at that point like He's trying to... so that's why Lord of the Rings is a very spiritual book because to the desirer the piece of surrender seems like the worst possibility. He just wants... and this will prevent us from falling into our heart. Falling in from prevent us from staying still in that holy gate of the temple will most likely prevent that gate from being opened and His presence from being palpable and will definitely then prevent us from seeing the reality of who we really are.

Because we can see the reality of who we really are only through the eyes of the Atma within. It is called intuitive insight. You see, what is that? Atma Gyan is to look through the eyes of the heart. Not in some romantic, worldly, silly way. Truly a different mode of knowledge. It's none of that 'Oh, I am all heart' business. 'I just all heart. You know, I woke up this morning and my heart said let's go to Lalbag.' And you know, you just feelings mixed up with thoughts is not heart. What is the heart? When you recognize the holiness of what is being revealed to you, that is the Atma. That is the Gyan flowing through the Atma. So if the process of spirituality is the process of discipleship of the Atma, if you don't spend time with the Atma, how discipleship is going to happen? Just to presume discipleship like a presumed God, like a presumed me. Everything is just presumed. No, in the world of Maya it's all a big seeming. So everything is just presumed. The 'me' is presumed. Where is this 'me'? Who can show where is the 'me'? Where is the one we call our name? Made up, presumed, can't find. Is it the body? No. Is it the mind, intellect? No. Where is it? I can't find it. Just made up. But the presumption seems safe because there's safety in numbers. Everybody's making the same presumption about themselves. So, let me be safe.

Then in that mode, where is God? Where is Atma? At best in my head, he's made up some stories. Made up fancy stories in my head. Like the character in A Suitable Boy who kept saying, you know, 'You might like to try this' and how British accent, I'll take Jima's help, something that 'You must go to big circus' or something like that and 'You must do all of this.' So at the end of the book or end of the movie somebody actually asked him, 'So when did you last visit?' He said, 'I haven't actually had the pleasure.' So but we must not get stuck in a spirituality like that where we can speak a lot about love and God and Atma and all of that but we haven't actually had the pleasure. We must only share what is completely true for us at that point. Why am I ranting, raving so much? I don't care. What is the question? The question was left far behind. Yes, you don't mind. Take some courage to put your hand up after ranting. So much hearing so much ranting. That's all.

It's all right. Just turn it on. If it's not on... when I'm trying to... is it on? When I'm trying to love Ram Ji right now, like there's a felt love...

I'll make it simpler for you. You know, you're trying to love Ram Ji, then He definitely knows. You see, He will not be confused about that. You see, so then as we go deeper in that trying to love, you will notice that there's a feeling that we call love, but that no feeling is constant, so it comes and goes. You see, so when it comes and goes, like you may love somebody in your family or let's say you love your husband, then is there always a felt love for him? No. You see, but somewhere deeper than that felt love you know that you love him. You see, so this is same for parents, children, all these special relationships. So that deeper love which is independent of the feeling which may change at the moment is met only through the eyes of the Atma. It is not known mentally or perceptually. You know it only because you know it in your heart. So that I wanted to clarify but you can proceed. You want to...

Atma is... huh? What is the Atma?

What is the Atma? What is the Atma? This is a very good question.

You know that you love him. You see, so this is same for parents, children, all these special relationships. So that deeper love which is independent of the feeling which may change at the moment is met only through the eyes of the Atma. It is not known mentally or perceptually. You know it only because you know it in your heart. So that I wanted to clarify, but you can proceed.

What is the Atma?

What is the Atma? What is the Atma? This is a very good question. Anybody asked me that actually before? I don't think anybody. What is the Atma? The Atma is the name that we give for God's presence in our heart. Now, what happened is that for someone to meet the Nirguna directly seems impossible. For someone to meet the Saguna, which is the boundless phenomenality of God that takes birth in God's presence, is also impossible. We can't even imagine a thousand oranges in our head. No. So how will you meet the Saguna Brahman? We can't.

So my version of this is that God realized that we are too limited in our faculties. So he made himself accessible to us in the form of a very simple organic presence of being in our hearts. See, that beingness he has made it so impossible to miss because that which we call the 'I am' itself is that beingness. You see, so if you go looking for yourself, what you are, you will find that same Atma. So God's presence available to us within the core of our soul, within the center of our antahkarana, is called the Atma. When we find the Atma, then through his eyes the Saguna and the Nirguna is revealed. You see, so you may say the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit is the same thing: Nirguna Brahman, Saguna Brahman, and the Atma.

You see, so it is not possible—or let me not say not possible—it is highly, highly, highly, highly unlikely that we will come to the revelation of the Saguna or the Nirguna without first being able to come to the Atma and to be able to live in the discipleship of the Atma. You see, so Atma is God's fingernail that we can hold on to to meet that which seems so far beyond what we can fathom at the moment. But Atma we can fathom, not fully, you see, because that's why I say both perceivable and unperceivable. What is that within you which you may search for as the subtlest perception but is actually unperceivable? That is the light of the Atma within. Because if it was completely fathomable, perceivable, then we would make an object out of it. Then the purpose of finding God would get lost. We may feel like this object is it.

You see, and if it were completely unperceivable, unfathomable, then you will have the same problem as Brahman; we cannot fathom at all. So how does this limited bundle of faculties come to the recognition of that which is so beyond, which is actually his or her reality as well, but it doesn't seem that way in the design of this system? So as a gift of his mercy, he has given us his presence in the form of the Atma, the Holy Spirit. That's why this path is called spirituality. But see Maya's trick: how many in spirituality actually talk about spirit? You see, very few. How many in spirituality actually talk about perceptual and conceptual knowledge? Mostly in spirituality we are talking about experiences or we are talking about concepts that we picked up from scriptures or teachers. Nobody's talking about the deeper knowledge which is Atma, which is spiritual knowledge.

You see, because Maya's trick may convince everyone that that is very rare to get. So don't worry about that. So spirituality is difficult because we have to leave the floor that we are most familiar with. Especially when life growls at you. Life growls at you. You return to what is most comfortable. We return to like that. But if you allow ourselves to meet the growling of Maya, you see, and just—what is the promise we made? My life belongs to God. You see, you have to meet that push-pull when the mind is saying 'mine, mine, me.' But you have to remind ourselves: who do I belong to? Who does this 'me' belong to? Remember that this world is a passing dream. We'll get over. It seems long, you see, when we are living it day by day, but when we look back at it—I look back at half a century—it still sounds absurd to me that this body-mind has been here apparently half a century. It doesn't seem like that at all. And the remaining ten, fifteen, twenty, whatever years are left will also go like that.

Then what? What is the capital we'll be left with? What have we earned in this life? All the name, fame, money, bank balance, relationships—all going. What are we going to be left with? This question is impossible to answer, but we are blessed that the sages have given us the answer. You see, so we are going to be blessed with the moments that we spend in God, in God's presence. We are blessed with every time that we have remembered him. You see, every time that we remember him. I feel like you get bonus points every time we remember him when Maya is really trying hard. So that is the only capital we'll be left with which cannot be taken away from us. The only punji, as the sages would say. So build your spiritual wealth. Build your spiritual wealth more than everything else because everything else is going.

Simplest way to build it: take God's name. Find out who you are. If you take God's name, all your attempt is to constantly not fall for misidentification. Just find out who you are. Maya cannot trap you. Abhai said, or Hanuman Prasad Poddar, or Ramsukhdas Ji said that God's name is like a fire. It burns independent of what our intention was. Whether we did it mechanically, the fire started, or with full faith you burnt the fire of the havan, the puja, it still burns. So what does it burn? Yeah, it burns the ego or it burns Maya. God's name every time you take it burns Maya, cuts Maya, and Maya is my ego. So what is the difficulty now? Maya makes us forget this simple thing. What am I meant to do at any moment? Ram. Next moment? Ram. Moment after that? Ram. What about after that? Ram. The mind hates that simplicity. It wants to know: what happened? Is it working? All of this thing. That is why it's important that we trust these time-tested traditions which have lasted for thousands and thousands of years of Gyana and Bhakti.

Yes. When this love for God is felt naturally, then it becomes very easy to surrender. Yeah. So but to feel that love—like for me to listen to bhajans or watching Ramayan or reading about the Self—that is necessary. Rarely these days, I rarely feel this love, although I'm doing sadhana for at least three hours. But to feel that love, then it becomes easy.

Easy, yeah. So you get more points for more difficult. Don't feel like I have to make it easy. Just stay with it. Stay with his name. Stay with whatever practice you're doing, inquiry or taking the name. And easy—in any game, easy is less points than difficult. So this also. So of course, when we are blessed, when we have that feeling, we feel so joyful, it seems easy. But when the mind is attacking us, the world seems to be all topsy-turvy, everything, and then we continue—that is when we strengthen our spiritual muscle.

You see, so the time when we are just floating in his love and his presence is felt and his name is resounding in our hearts, Ajapa—those times are just his gift to us. We can't call that sadhana really. It is enjoying the—like we entered the holy place. There's such a beautiful environment there. His name is permeating the walls of our heart and just filling it with so much love and light. So that we can't really call a practice; that we have to call just his gift, a grace. The practice is when we are facing difficulty and dryness and nothing is being felt, to continue with our end of the bargain of love. You see that?

Even at the time of squeezing, it feels easy because that time God is the only refuge.

Yes. Very good.

But in the neutral, nothing is happening that time.

That's a good one. Yes, you're very right. That's a very good way to put it. Then it is blissful, then it's easy. When we are suffering, we feel like I have to run to God. But when things are in the middle, then the mind says, 'But this you can manage. You don't need to get God into the picture.' It's very good. Very good. And most of our time is like that. Most of our time is like that. So it's very important to keep remembering.

Father, can I say something? Yes. Uh, I might—you might have said, but I had a bit of an interruption, so I couldn't hear everything. Um, can you say something about this part of Maya where you're doubting too much if it's Maya or from God or something?

Yes. Just don't give you—okay, I'll start with a simplistic-sounding answer and then if you need more we can add more. Just what I'm proposing is that we are so unceasing in our prayer that we don't give ourselves the space to fall into this constant doubting or constant worrying or constant any mental constant, because we break it in our determination to just be Ram Ram Ram Ram or 'Who am I? Who am I?' You know the story of who was it, Bhagavan's disciple, Anamalai Swami, who was getting too involved in ashram activities and maybe politics or whatever? So Bhagavan built him a hut outside the ashram, just outside, and said, 'You are going to live over here and you will constantly only ask yourself: Who am I? Your food will be brought to you, you don't have to talk to anyone, you will just be in the inquiry throughout till you come to the recognition.' So that's how he became Anamalai Swami.

So like that, we just not going—you were many times—maybe it's a rude answer, but many times these days the answer just comes from here saying: where is the time for that? There is no time if our project is just to be Ram. Then when we catch ourselves, 'But why like this? What like that?' then we catch ourselves. We are not to say what that was; nothing, just return to Ram. You see? So then we keep this up and then again we get caught in something: 'What about this? What about that?' Then when we catch ourselves, we don't analyze, we do no post-mortem, we return to God, Ram.

Um, thank you. I also feel the same. Um, the thing is, I also asked Robert a bit this question and he said something that when you have a decision to make about something in life, like that seems an important decision—can be with whatever job, place, relationship—you should look towards that. You should put your attention towards that and try to come as much from your love and understanding as possible. It's not the time then to do self-inquiry because that decision needs your attention and it needs your focus outward, not inward at that time. So um, I see the truth in both, but it—

It's a historical fact that to be able to synthesize two pieces of guidance from two different expressions sharing God has always been next to impossible. So that's a conundrum that you created for yourself. You have to just then take it like a Zen thing. Yeah.

Well, thank you Father for your—

Thank you, my lord. Thank you. Why does this happen? And it happens because it is not about what we are understanding conceptually. It really is that everybody will have a certain way of guiding us beyond the old egoic modes of knowledge into the higher knowledge. And that higher knowledge itself gives us the knowledge. Like there's a fallacy that the higher knowledge is only about God's reality. It is also telling us what is God's will for us in this world. You see, so every teacher of God has a different method by which they lead the disciples, the students, the listener to the higher knowledge. And usually in God's mysterious ways, these are very difficult to reconcile, to put together, especially if the expressions have very different makeups, very different conditioning, very different ways of approaching spirituality. Then to try and reconcile is very difficult.

Also telling us what is God's will for us in this world. You see, so every teacher of God has a different method by which they lead the disciples, the students, the listener to the higher knowledge. And usually in God's mysterious ways, these are very difficult to reconcile, to put together, especially if the expressions have very different makeups, very different conditioning, very different ways of approaching spirituality. Then to try and reconcile is very difficult. So that's why for centuries the Advaitins and the Buddhists have fought about the notion of shunyata, where that which they may call shunyata we may call the highest. And of course, being leaning towards Advaita, I will try to squeeze their entire framework into mine by saying that they are saying shunyata because it's beyond conceptualization, and every bit of conceptualization only gets in the way. And only after ridding themselves of all that conceptualization, coming into shunyata, do they recognize what is Buddha nature. I will squeeze it this way; a Buddhist teacher will take what I'm saying and squeeze it their way. So that is the problem with words and frameworks. So it's bound to happen.

And sometimes our heart is drawn to all of these paths, like my heart is completely drawn to everywhere where I smell the flavor of God. Then I take it upon myself to do that churning in my heart. Isn't it? Sometimes we feel like we made life difficult for ourselves. Why listen to bhajans? Why listen to Sufi masters? Why listen to all these Zen people? Why listen? Because I'm drawn to it; there's a fragrance about it. You see, then when I come across the contradictions, I have to keep working on it in my heart and wait for the heart to provide the resolution, if there is one. So based on our temperament, we may enjoy meeting various expressions, various forms. And that's fine. But then we can't expect the answer to be linear. It has to then be given to the heart, both to be taken to the heart and for the guidance to arise from there.

Father, on the God's will sense, because I resonate very much with just forget about anything that has too much choice in it and too much doer, and just dissolve in that seeing where it just stay with God's name or dissolve in that seeing that there's only God. So then there's no choice, there's no chooser. So then is it okay then, whenever there is too strong of a sense of a choice, to leave that and to just come back to God in any way that it's possible? Or you feel it can also be a strong sense of choice sometimes that it's also in God's will, and then you have to see what is God's will in that case?

So if by choice-making we mean reliance completely on the intellect, then I would not suggest that. If the choice seems to be that my intellect is pushing me in one way and my heart is taking me another way, then I would say to stay with the heart. If the question is whether I should go to the intellect at all for choice-making or just stay in the heart where all this intellect dissolves, I would say stay in the heart.

Yes. Well, if it would be clear at all times what is the heart and what is the intellect, then it would be much easier. The only difficulty for myself is to discern, and then it's more easy for me to leave that because I can't discern sometimes what is the intellect and what is the heart. And then it's more easy to just stay with God and dissolve everything there. But then it's like, okay, I'm not going to choose anything, it's just my life is going to flow. So I can do that if you don't...

Two things coming to say about that. I may be accused of many, many things, but nobody can accuse me of saying that this is easy. So easy it is not. Simple it may be, you see, but easy it is definitely not. So it's not easy to discern between Maya and God's will then. But the second part of your question or answer was that I can easily leave everything and just rest with God in my heart. Then that is to be in the heart. You don't then have to discern which is mind and which is heart. If you can easily leave that whole construct aside and you can just stay with God in your heart, then that is the heart that I'm talking about.

Okay, that's good because maybe there's somewhere where it feels like I need to be responsible in some way also towards the outer, whatever would be duties or I don't know.

Yes. So I would say that in spirituality our highest responsibility is to be with spirit and to allow things to flow from there.

Yes. I'm happy for that. I'm very... tell me what he said about it and we'll try to synthesize something. No, Father, he's also putting...

As long as I don't get an angry email from him saying, 'What are you telling him?'

No, he's not like that, Father. But it's like he also primarily puts this whole... but he puts it more easily, like, 'Yeah, you just choose from your understanding and love.' And it's like, okay, it seems very easy how he puts it, like you live the life normally and don't make a distinction between life and spirituality, and then it's like it emerges. And I see that somewhere also because there is so much unwillingness to go with anything else than God, then I get too much into figuring-out mode. And I got a relief from seeing that actually there is nothing but God in the world also, but that doesn't make everything okay, of course.

So although God is there, as you said, the answer is sounding absolutely right to me. You see, so now you're in big trouble. Yeah, it's my love of... because we can look at it like that. Why divide so much? Just life is there. You have to make a choice. Make a choice. Get on with it. Don't stress about it. I can work with that. That's why, what to do now?

No, I take it... from this I could see clearly that something that is troubling me is not worth it. So it's not worth it to go into any of that and just forget anything else but God. So that feels more peaceful for me. So I will stay with that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Janik says, 'My current employer's name is Maya. That's why I was considering dropping it.' Huh? Yes. It's also a very common name in India also, Maya. But the way they spell it over there, he spelled it M-A-J-A. So Maja. So Maya also like 'maja' is excitement, fun in Hindi. So it proposes that many times: 'No, that's so boring what you're doing, just sitting around. What you need is to have some fun, do something in your life.' You know, isn't that what most of our families tell us? 'You're just vegetating away.' Actually, the body is vegetating away whether we like it or not. The humble attempt is to just follow the words of the ones that are most credible in the world, which is the sages, and to recognize from what they are sharing that there's something beyond life and death, and we can find that while still alive in this body. So for that, we just have to leave that maja for some time. Huh? It usually comes with the saza. So saza is punishment. So in the world, you see, if you enjoy Maya, she will not... So another way to look at that various thing is to say that if you work for Maya, she will not leave you without paying you, and that payment is the punishment. And so Ram Sukaji has said that if you fall into Maya, if you attach yourself to Maya, you will have to suffer it. There's no way around it. You just have to pray to God's mercy. I like that as such a question.

Okay. I was talking about it with... I feel like because now job and all that, I'm not in this, there's just a lot more space. And I feel like I'm seeing that more of a sense also. I'm not quite sure whether that... sometimes I feel like I tend to fill up my...

Yeah.

And it's very clear that I just fill it because I feel like the grooves of doing things a particular way are not groovy.

Yeah.

Like say, for example, I have a lot of space. I don't want to go in. I don't want to go there. In my heart I know that, but I still end up doing that and they also try...

What makes you... like the fear of what she will think?

That I feel like I also have something that, like in a sense, some need for something there.

What do you want out of Maya? Like the most... what is Maya's promise? If you only had this, life would be so much better. I don't know.

To be loved by them or to... but I feel like that love also feels compared to what I have probably, or in my own heart the love feels more authentic.

Yeah. Authentic. That I know it's... I know that something's corrupt in the world. What is the offer you can't refuse? Validation.

Validation. That's a good one. Like that image is at stake.

Is that approval?

Yeah. My cousins are coming in April for three days. They're coming on a Monday, Monday or Wednesday. That is also like the fact that I might have to step out with them, because I don't want to, I want to be in Friday evening. But even that, you know, like even there's so much pressure about this in that, of course, you know. And I feel that because of this, something like... it just gets, without wanting it, I fill it up with something.

So as we are trying to take God's name constantly, then whatever our insides are filled up with will come to the surface more and more to be seen. So we are talking about the other thing also on chat. So I would say keep at it and allow these things to get released, to be seen, for God's light to shine on them and to be released. Because if you try to be too tactical and strategic about how to deal with these things, then that will become more convoluted many times. Just belong to God and don't forget that. Just pray to not forget it, like Ram Sukaji said, that 'May I not forget.' The good thing in all of this is like she said, 'I'm trying to love Ram.' Now if we are able to say that, that we are trying to love God more and more, there is no way that He doesn't know that. So that should reassure us. And all these things that we are looking at for ourselves—what comes up, what grooves we have, what conditioning we have—it's very good. As it comes, we allow it to just get released from us because many of these things we never even realized we had. You see, our conditioning, our vasanas, operate in secret. Now they're coming to the surface. The mind will try to use that to scare us more and more. You say, 'Thank you. Thank you for showing. Thank you for showing me.'

I don't forget. I give in because I think I'm doing good. I've put in effort, so some break is okay.

Yeah. So when you don't forget, what is the forgetting that we are talking about? Now the forgetting is that we forget to be in His constant remembrance. So if we have justified it to ourselves saying that, 'But I'm doing this for God only,' is that how you mean it? Or you mean that you're constantly with Him and yet the action is happening in that?

I mean, suppose the japa is happening. And like you said, small examples, checking cricket or whatever. Checking the cricket match—I don't do that, but I'm giving a safe example. So if I do that and then the excuse I give myself is that God knows I've tried, I'm trying hard, so now and then I can give in and He's okay with it, actually.

It's not... I mean, I'm scared to say it's all right. You get the sense, no, that mostly yes, God is very, very kind, but also life will keep showing us, our heart will keep showing us when we are going too much. So it's not easy to answer because He's so merciful, at the same time we have to be careful.

I'm giving a safe example. So if I do that and then the excuse I give myself is that God knows I've tried, I'm trying hard. So now and then I can give in and he's okay with it, actually. It's not, I mean, I'm scared to say it's all right. You get the sense, no, that mostly yes, God is very, very kind, but also life will keep showing us, our heart will keep showing us when we are going too much. So it's not easy to answer because he's so merciful, at the same time we have to be careful. So between that, you can draw the line somewhere, right? Because if I say no, you must not, you see, firstly I can't because I do, so I would be hypocritical if I said no, you must never leave his name. Then first I have to elevate myself to that level to be able to say that. Secondly, many times when it is heard like that, it can seem, the mind can make that very oppressive, you see, and make it a fearful condition or something like that. So I don't want to do that. So between his mercy and our faithfulness towards him, to find in our heart what is the right line. Good. Good.

We tell the ones we're going to sing that day. I'm ready to sleep. We didn't talk today. That other version of, yeah.

What is the line? I'm not sure. Defeating the enemies of it, like avoiding the sanctum or the groove of my heart and defeating the enemies like Kama and other mayasmics. The enemies, the means Kama. So the more the enemy of these you defeat them and abide in my heart. Yes. King, the lord of gods. Sur means devtas and Bhup means king of kings. This one.

Uhhuh. So at the end of Hanuman Chalisa, Tulsidas Ji makes prayer that oh Lord, oh king of all gods, please abide in my heart two times. Please make a dwelling in my heart. I am always your servant. So like St. Teresa of Avila said that in the core of our heart he delights to stay. And in the words of Atma Darshan Samadhi that came here, bless my heart with the light of spirit. So everyone is asking for the same grace of God for his presence to be felt in our hearts, for us to come to Atma Darshan, for us to live in that holy presence. But it's so beautiful when great sages like Tulsidas Ji and St. Teresa of Avila can continue to make this prayer in spite of the fact that we all know that Lord's presence was so apparent for them in their hearts. You see, and yet they remained in their humility to constantly ask for this. Never take it for granted. May all of us be blessed with this holy revelation of his presence in our hearts. There also somewhere with Hridaya, some line that, what is it? Is it in Jina?