To Find Your Limitlessness, You Cannot Try, You Can Only Let Go of the False – 25th June 2021

I don't have to question it because I'm here sitting on a couch.

Yes, and you perceive it and that's how you come, right? You perceive the couch, you see the body, you perceive the sensations in the body which presumably are coming from the couch, and that leads us to conclude that we are on the couch. Now to check on our limitlessness, you see, to check on our limitlessness we can check that all the perceptions are only appearing within myself, within my being. But to the limitlessness of the being, their perception cannot go. So all that the exercise can do is take away the make-believe idea of limitation, but you cannot perceive the limitless boundary because that is itself beyond the limit of what perception can do. Yes?

So as we are trying to become clear about this and to make this very obvious, then what we can do is that we can use this kind of exercise to see that none of this set of perceptions can actually limit me. Because you don't find one on one side of perception and something else on that side of perception on the basis of which you could have said 'I'm only constrained within this'. But your limitlessness cannot be confirmed through perception. Your limitlessness can only be confirmed intuitively, you see. And that is why it's simpler to confirm actually, not more difficult. It can only seem more difficult because we are used to confirmation coming from the mind on the basis of perception or on the basis of some conceptual knowledge. But now, if now you don't refer to your mind, what is the limitation?

No, I don't know exactly the notion of it. I don't know.

The notion of boundary or limitation or even limitlessness for that matter is not applicable in your reality. These are just ideas in our intellect which, coming to satsang, they are being washed away. And in the washing away of them, the job is done. What needs to be done is done. So we must not feel that I must shift from a limited position to now an unlimited position. To shift out from the limited position is enough, you see, because even the notion of limitlessness is a limitation for your reality because you will have an idea of what that is, and that idea is not your reality.

Yes, and I'm like trying to go deeper and this...

We can try and see, okay, am I something which is limited by these body sensations? Am I something which is limited by these perceptions? You can try like that. But to find your limitlessness, you cannot try. You can only let go of the false.

Yes, yes. What I was trying to express is that in this letting go of the false, I've seen that this character of the satsang narrative, it's there. Maybe it's there, the limitation, like this continues trying and see that it's in the future and...

Yes, that's very well spotted because there comes a point where the satsang narrative itself becomes the limiting set of notions. So you can conclude at best, we can conclude in our intellect that there is no limit, I cannot find a boundary. But to be limitless or to find your limitlessness is not an intellectual conclusion that we can ever arrive at. And that was the bhajan at the beginning where in the bhajan both the opposites were taken and it was said not this and not that, neither this nor that. So neither limited nor limitless.

Yes, yes. I've seen these last days this like this battle of the opposites. Yes, clear. And that, yes, no, neither of those applies to... it applies to the character, not... it's something like this. I don't know. It becomes more and more difficult to speak about this because to speak we need to be conclusive about something and you're recognizing that it's impossible to really be conclusive. And that's why we start saying 'I don't know' a lot more, you see. Whereas in actuality you are knowing deeper than you have ever known. You are accessing the true source of knowing, you see. But to be able to translate that which is so naturally available into a conclusion or a narrative becomes impossible.

Yes, don't know what else to say. This feeling I know very well. Oh, just yesterday it came something very, very profound that I want to say to you. I don't know how this works or it... I feel to ask you to accept myself as your disciple. I don't know if this is needed or not. I don't know, but it's in my heart very, very deeply.

I understand the sentiment with which you make that request and it's fully, fully accepted in my heart. I just feel like everyone is my disciple till they figure it out. But remember, I'm not speaking as Ananta; I'm speaking as the voice which is using Ananta as an instrument. So yes, that's what I say. So mostly what happens is till suffering pokes out the egotism in our appearance as human beings on this planet, suffering keeps poking us till we come to the refuge of the divine principle in our heart. And many times an external master is a useful tool to point to that divine principle in the heart. And in the design of consciousness, whatever I've seen so far, there is no choice but master to show up if it is needed in that way.

So in that way everyone is a disciple of the divinity in their own hearts, but sometimes you need a form because we're so used to relating to name and form that provisionally we need a form to point us to that. And this body-mind is being used as an instrument by that divine principle to point to itself.

Yes, you're still a mystery to me. Like when Guruji came, it was the same. I know it's the same, but it's still like, who are you? And who are you? Who are you? And I love you. I cannot say anything else. And when I follow you with all my heart and I trust and I give you my life and whatever I'm at, I'm at your feet. And thank you so much.

Thank you, thank you so much. Very soon I told you, you're here, right here. Thank you.

Father, there was this hearing of some words that happened and the thought that was expressed by the speaker was that enlightenment or self-realization is the highest attainment, but it is not easiest or it's not something that comes naturally. And the doubt again crept in very quickly because of those words were heard at that time. And it was seen that the doubts come up and the fact that this recognition of Self is something that is the highest attainment and to have a living master like you who we can speak through is again a divine blessing. And then that somewhere this recognition happened that there is this feeling that this is something which cannot be done by the mind or the body or the person. There has to be something beyond the effort, Father.

Definitely. And in fact, we just spoke about this also when I said you cannot try it. No, you cannot try to do it. You can try to negate whatever you may positively be able to conclude; you may be able to negate that and come to a neutrality, but you cannot use the tool of effort, you see. Because your intellect can be effortful, the body we can exert, but your intuition—nobody can say 'I am exerting my intuition today, I think I'm using my intuition too much', you see. It can't work like that. That is not how intuition works.

So provisionally it can feel like it is some effort to let go of the false, and that effort is all right as Bhagwan said. But you cannot effort your way to the recognition of the truth, you see. You can only effort your way to the negation of the false, and even then you'll realize that even that seeming effort was the play of consciousness itself. So let me add to what the speaker said: it is the highest and the easiest, you see. But I understand where the speaker is coming from because it is not easy from the mindset that we have. So it is actually the easiest because it is organically here right now effortlessly. Your reality is just here, you see. It is the false which actually takes the effort. But I understand where the speaker is coming from because we are so used to this habit of concluding, of notions, of taking beliefs to be true, so that it can feel like it is some effort to let go of those.

So Father, then what to... what do the easiest... like I...

Okay, let's take this example. How much effort are you taking to sit on that chair right now?

No effort.

What is even simpler than that? You have to be to be able to sit on the chair, yes? And to conclude that 'I am sitting on the chair', you are taking some effort of taking yourself to be something. Yes? So don't make that effort, you see. Now the body boundary is gone. That's simple. If you don't take that effort to define yourself in that way, you see, some sensation may be perceived, but those don't bind you, you see. So to be is simpler than to even sit now. But what is simpler than even being?

The aware, the knowing that it's the knowing that I am.

Yes, the knowing which is even independent of 'I am' or 'I am not' is the simplest. The knowing gets hijacked by the thoughts and the sensations and that's where the trap...

Exactly. And that is why in satsang we are constantly pointing out that it's a trap. And of course, because it's a habit, therefore the addiction from the habit seems to take some time, and that is fine. But the point is that if you notice, it is more effort to exert that attention and to exert that belief. To not exert anything is effortless. Now effortlessly take yourself to be something objective—the body, you mean, Father? Yeah, or anything, any idea, including the Self or being or anything. Just remain open and empty. Effortless. Now what are you?

Just open and empty, Father. There's nothing.

Yes. So what is easier? You to inject the poison and then to inject the antidote, or not inject the poison at all?

Not to inject the poison at all.

And it is the injecting of the poison which you will see more and more that is effortful. Although initially everybody comes to satsang feeling that it is so effortless for us to identify, you will notice that it is not so. To pick up from the conveyor belt is always more effortful than to just allow it to come and go, you see. But in the conveyor belt itself, one of the first things that comes is that it's so effortful to let go, and we end up buying that, we end up picking right up. Okay, I'm just going to mute everyone again one moment. Once again, I will do this again. Okay, now it should be fine. The only problem that I've seen is that we are left with nothing to put in our narrative. That question is unanswered, you see, and that is problematic with...

It is always more effortful than to just allow it to come and go, you see. But in the conveyor belt itself, one of the first things that comes is that it's so effortful to let go, and we end up buying that; we end up picking it right up. Okay, I'm just going to mute everyone again, one moment. Once again, I will do this again. Okay, now it should be fine.

The only problem that I've seen is that we are left with nothing to put in our narrative. That question is unanswered, you see, and that is problematic. The mind says, 'What happened?' Nothing, maybe, in that moment. So the narrative it will find will be like this: 'Yes, it was fine in front of Ananta. We looked together; it was so open and empty. But now, see, it's not permanent. What did you actually find?' So all this rubbish will come on the same conveyor belt. And because we feel like there's nothing—no alternative to put into our narrative—then we go with that. So allow your narrative to be empty. What has happened? Nothing. What needs to happen? Nothing. Are you getting it? No. Are you not getting it? No. You see, make it all not applicable. It's the wrong form; you don't have to fill up that form at all.

Also, further, I notice in this particular body and my apparatus, there is this feeling that it's only grace that will help to let go of all these burdens and just a complete surrender.

Option one is only grace. Option two is it's all grace anyways. So it's not really an alternative, but I realize what you mean. It's mostly about 'I have to do it' or 'grace can do it for me.' Yes, but you're not able to say option two because it's starting to sound ludicrous to you anyway, because you cannot find this separate 'I' who is to do it anyway, you see? So all the doing—apparent doing—there is no ultimately, there is no such thing as doing. But all the apparent doing of consciousness must be graceful. It's not that God is making a mistake sometimes and He's doing good stuff on other times. So all of it must be grace. That's why we say 'Guru Kripa Kevalam.' Only the Master's grace is—actually, it is the only option. There is no alternative.

So Father, by that, there is nothing to worry about, there is nothing to control, there's nothing to fear.

Of course. Nothing to worry, nothing to fear. It's just this is the highest blessing. Father, what can take away that which is more effortless than even sitting on the chair? Habit. But even that—making wrong conclusions or misidentification—happens on top of the substratum. So even in that, it is born. Like Bhagavan said, 'Till I am, there is no trouble.' But when 'I am' itself starts to believe 'I am something,' that is the source of all trouble. But it's still the same 'I am' which is using the power of its own belief to identify with something in the objective appearance.

So Satsang is just consciousness reminding consciousness that it is not hostage to its power of belief or identification. It can let go, you see. But if it starts with the mask of individuality and then tries to say, 'Okay, this individual should now be free,' that is like putting on the mask to see your original face. That cannot happen, you see. And that's where the contradiction which the mind can present goes away. Because on one hand, we are saying, 'Just let go, you can do it,' you see? On the other hand, we're saying, 'But there is nobody there individually who can do anything at all because that one doesn't exist.' So the non-existent one cannot do. But the thing is that the instruction to let go is just a reminder that consciousness is presenting to itself, because at the core of the 'I am something' belief is still the true I am-ness which can be empty of the emotional 'something.'

So when this thought and the idea again grips us that 'I am this person' or 'I am this body'—okay, you try to make the idea grip you. Let the idea come. Now let's see how it grips you. It should survive the click. Right now, you cannot be open and empty just naturally? You should be gripped. Let me see that one.

No, Father, it's not happening.

It cannot happen like that because consciousness is never castrated in that way. It plays with these notions and when it's done with this—

Thank you, Father.

So welcome. Love you, Father. Okay, let's go to Shivoham. Heard me calling him.

Hello, Father. Can you hear me?

Yes, yes. Hello. Is that—I was getting some complaints on the audio. Now is it better?

Well, it's the same. It seems a little bit far away, but it's audible for me.

Okay, we'll try. Maybe I speak up a bit. Let's see how. Well, should I go?

Yes, I wanted to come and say hello first of all. And I wanted to pray. I have a prayer. I don't know how to say a prayer. And it's about to let either—oh yes, but I had it clear, but right now is—is it the hot seat effect?

Yeah, I think so. Or is it just your presence that I wanted to pray to you, Father, that only the desire for truth remains here and please help me to burn all others, other desires into—yes, just to—

Yes, yes. All my prayers are with you for this. But sometimes we can be very hard on ourselves. So, is it number one desire?

Hey, I don't know. This is why I'm praying, because sometimes it seems that it's not. And I'm getting some—mostly—

If you look at your life in the last, say, five years, would you know at an overall basis, would you say it is number one compared to everything else?

Yes.

You see, because that desire hunting otherwise can become a big exercise and amazing design which you don't need. It's fine. I see that as long as you're longing for this at the overall level more than anything else over a period of time, then it is fine. There will be spurts where, you know, you want to do a painting or something. Then if you beat yourself up and say, 'No, no, no, you see, I'm supposed to want only freedom,' if I want that, it's not like that.

Because sometimes this fight seems to take place, no?

Yeah, you leave that fight. Leave that playground, you see. Leave that boxing ring. Don't worry about any of that. So if you're in Satsang and you've been in Satsang so consistently over the last few years, I have no worry as far as that is concerned. Consciousness from time to time will play with various aspects of itself, and that's all right. It's completely fine. This world appearance is for it to play. If you define yourself too strongly or too much in that way, then that can become a big mental struggle.

Let it be that when my son was born, my biological son was born, I had all these questions. So what to do if he asks for candy? Should I give or not? And then there is no such template. You cannot say always give or always don't. You just have to sometimes give, sometimes not give, you see? So there is no hard and fast sort of rule. The same way with the ego, you cannot be so hard on your desire and say, 'No, no, I cannot watch this, I cannot do painting, I cannot go for a trek, I cannot do this, you see, because I am only going to find the Self,' which is impossible to do in that way anyway.

What would you do? You would put on a guided meditation and you would hear it for some time. Then after that, you ask yourself, 'Who am I?' Okay, another hour you ask yourself, 'Who am I?' Then after that, maybe two hours, three, four, then after that, you see? So what I'm presenting to all of you is a different way of being, and that is just to go with your heart moment to moment and not be so stuck up in our heads in terms of what the life has to be like. And that can seem like a risk. And the number one response I get with that when I present this kind of freedom is that, 'But what if I'm not spiritual anymore? What if I stop seeking the truth? You see, moment to moment, I don't get the inspiration to enquire, then should I just leave?' Yes, you see, that fear can come.

But it's not over. I felt it. Yes, yes, I felt that.

Yeah, but it's not a valid fear because this is consciousness' claim, and only if it is the will of consciousness will it reveal itself in its full glory to itself. So if you're truly—if you're not fooling yourself, and that's why all that is needed is a little bit of honesty to yourself, integrity to yourself—you are truly following your heart moment to moment, you see, you cannot be misled or go down the wrong path. And even if you seem to take some steps which are mental, which were concluded by the mind, you see, then the thing with this is that it's click right in the instant. So one instant of God, one instant of meeting your true intuitive intelligence, is enough to clean up all the steps, the singing steps—these are not really truly in the steps anyway.

So what is happening for many of us is that the identity itself is the most viable one that we revert to, we return back to, and we feel like that identity is in service to the truth. But—and this is not for everyone, but most of you here can hear this—that even that must be let go of. One time, maybe you were there, actually this lady came, she was logging in for the first time and she was from Australia, an Indian lady who lives in Australia. She said to me something like 'Anantaji' or even 'Swamiji,' something like that, and she said, 'Can you please tell us your daily routine?' I said, 'What do you want with that?' 'No, no, no, we just want to know, you know, what is your daily routine.' Maybe she wanted to emulate the routine.

So I said, 'Okay, I'll tell you, but you have to promise not to leave Satsang because of that.' So then I said, 'Oh, I had to leave tonight, last night, maybe I was watching anything, then I woke up a bit late and then, you know, I get my phone and then...' You see, I'm not asking anyone to emulate that. I'm not asking anyone to emulate them, but it's not—it doesn't have to become so hard. You could be in a cave for a hundred years and inquiring into the nature of who you are, but if you are attacking through the identity of finding that out, of the seeker who wants the truth, you see, then it's still not going to work. So it's just open up. You have to loosen up. You just loosen up, loosen up. I know you're very good at that, but this is for everyone, because I remember your rock music and things, but just we become too hard, you see, spiritually hard. You just have to open up a bit.

Yeah, I can say in this life, but you can see with Guruji so palpably that there's nothing hard-coded at all.

This is some very broad strokes, like the broad strokes of a painting. And if it doesn't go, nothing so hard—I couldn't get 'hard-coded'—defined so strongly that it has to be like this, then it has to be like that. Yes, you see, there are some broad strokes for the benefit of the Sangha which can tell you, 'Okay, this time there is Satsang, usually on this day,' this kind of thing. But if it doesn't go that way, then it's not that he gets worried about that or concerned that it doesn't happen that way. It's just consciousness, God is running this life, then what is there to worry? What is there to worry so much? Wow.

And just to be super safe, what you could do is you could tell some Sangha friends, you see, 'If you don't see me in Satsang for a month, this is my number.' For me, I'm saying, 'No, no, no, I'm going to be at the beach and I'll see you next year,' and see when they force you to come back. Somebody who can be authoritative with you, that much is enough. Even that is not needed, but if it reassures you in some ways. If we didn't have this game of discovering that which we truly know already in our heart, then what would we do? So by the way, I'm not saying—like masters have said that—but I'm not saying give up the search, you see. I'm saying neither give up the search nor be the seeker. Just don't have a question with regards to this at all, you see? Because I've seen that also, spiritual ego variant, where it can take on this idea, 'No, no, I am not seeking anymore, you see, I am itself, I am not seeking,' you see, but still the 'I' is still the wrong one. So don't take either.

If we truly know already in our heart, then what would we do? So, by the way, I'm not saying—like masters have said that—but I'm not saying give up the search, you see. I'm saying neither give up the search nor be the seeker. Just don't have a question with regards to this at all, you see. Because I've seen that also, the spiritual ego variant, where it can take on this idea: 'No, no, I am not seeking anymore, you see. I am Itself. I am not seeking.' You see, but still the 'I' is still the wrong one. So don't take either position, either of seeking or not seeking. So the only thing then problematic is that you don't know how to define yourself. Are you a spiritual seeker? I don't know what would you be.

You don't have to transcribe this whole... I was trying to keep it very short, yeah. Okay, this is okay. You'll also share the load, but I feel like it's nice. I see the fun that some of us are having with the transcripts, but I feel like it's a nice exercise because I noticed many times that we end up asking the same person again or just not letting that mental trip that we're on go. And sometimes when we have to transcribe that, we immerse ourselves more deeply in that and we see that whatever answer can be provided in words has been provided there already. So in that way, it's quite helpful. So I'm okay to continue with this experiment a little bit, although most of you know that I don't like troubling my children in any way, but I feel like this is good. Good satsang for everyone.

I feel it is very good too, Father. It is very good too. Conceptually, I realize all of you, your feeling is very good, but when it's coming down to actually doing this... I never did it before, but I'll try this time and see. I'll report next week to you.

So basically what I'm saying is loosen up. Just loosen up. What was it? We had this meeting one time where they were just saying this often: just soften it up. Just soften it up a bit. Like sometimes we can become very hard with our spiritual ideas about ourselves and they can be very oppressive. Just soften them up a bit, no? That's true. It's all soft, soft and nice, nice like that. Then the ego can't really build a strong house. But when we get caught in our 'it should be like this, it has to be like that,' all this 'should' work gets us into... okay, he's doing that thing again. So we can go to the next question. Next. Those who finish can just put their hands down.

Namaste, Father. How are you, Father?

I'm good, and you?

I'm fine, Father. Just, I think, just wanted to meet you like this today with your sister about the true nature of consciousness. It's just, I see you and it's coming, I can't help. Father, I don't even know why I raise my hand, but listening to your conversation with you, your appearance had to come to inspire this half-an-hour sermon on the nature of consciousness. I'm having so much fun with this transcription. Just, Father, since morning there's been a lot of surrendering that was happening and I think it was... there was in the morning a decision that today to be in front of you to just surrender everything up. But I felt it was not even like it just started to happen, then it was almost happening right there in front of you.

Morning Supriya, that has got you in trouble now. You blame her after this. Where is she now? The one who decided in the morning, where is she? Let's catch her, make her do the transcript.

Yes, Father. Imaginary Supriya, imaginary transcription now. Father, just seeing a lot of life playing out. The very opposites or the contracted states all playing out and just... they're so evident because life is presenting them like that. It's just playing out. The dependencies going away, the insecurities, the lack. So everything has just been literally stirred out of the system. And since it's obviously playing out right now, so there was this deep, deep prayer to just completely surrender it. It's... I don't even know, Father, if I can say that it's identified. I can't even say there is anything that is like a residue left to even mellow. It's just playing out. And there was this, yes Father, there's definitely there was this feeling of coming in front of you and again sitting at your feet and saying that keep holding my hand, keep me in your heart and just... cured and just here. Love you, Father.

I love you too. Remember that if it is playing out, it is a play that is happening.

Yes, yes Father. And it happens like that, that it just plays out. It just seemed like that and there is no one really who's getting affected or... so maybe for a few moments it's strong, but it just goes away. But yeah, Father, I just wanted to be here in front of you.

Do you like this? I see the openness. I see it's very good then.

Father, just hold me here. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Welcome. Okay, let's go to Niranjan, then a few more. Let's go to Niranjan.

Hello, namaste Father. Hello, hello. I'm switching... hello?

Yes, yes, I see you, man. How are you?

Father, I'm fine, my dear. Are things a bit better with the hospital and the COVID situation now?

Yeah, it's much, much better now actually, but you never know. Don't know, it's true.

I just wanted to say hi and something good, good. Happy to see you. Because I don't have any questions, like, but since for quite... I can't say quite a long time, but I just wanted to say hi.

Yes, yes, my dear. Last time also I saw your hand, I called you, but maybe you were busy with some meeting or something.

But no, no, you were very quick with the next participant.

Oh, I see. When you... you can put on the chat also.

Ah, no, no, no. I didn't have any questions, so just it was like I don't have any questions.

I am buying your story because you have not had a question for quite some time. No, no, but it has nothing to do with transparency, that's what I'm saying. I'll be allowing visitors now... not really, maybe another few weeks, you're right.

Yeah, because I got a call from Polita also, you know. I attended two of Rishikesh open sessions, but somehow I couldn't meet you. Yeah, at the same time, yes. Yeah, because probably you come in the beginning and at the end most of the... I can meet you.

Yes, I am looking forward to the visit if both of you can come, that will be... you have had water right now? So you ready? Water you have had water?

I haven't had water, no. I haven't had water, thanks.

That's how I can buy a longer time with you. I can finish this whole class with you. You can have another one also. I need to take a restroom break soon. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Let's go to... I saw Newmi.

Yeah, I tried to draw some diagram to ask you, but again, situations where it's helping... the understanding helps, that's what I realize more than anything else. So more you understand before, more you can be conscious or aware or in a state of continuous state of awareness. So thank you for that. It's very clear, specifically those hours spent with you or even looking at your YouTube videos. I can feel that today's world, the Buddha field is transferred through internet also. Yes, yeah. And I was... a specific question. I was listening in your couple of big satsang videos about you talked about in the body as a bucket of flesh and all, where you cannot have a distinction of inside and outside. So my question would be: what is the relation between a capital 'I' and a small 'i'? And what is the relation between you as an Ananta capital 'U' and your small 'u'? And how those solutions are different typically?

Okay, good, good. That's a good one. Truly, truly, the answer is very simple, but I'll expand on that a bit more. So truly, it is like saying: what is the relationship between you and the cat that is sitting next to you? You see, there is no such cat. So you cannot have a relationship. But if you had a lot of ideas about this cat and you had a full narrative about the cat, you see, that had a name and it seems to have a story, almost like a recurring dream where the story seems to continue, you see, then there could be some attachment to that cat. So if I was to say to you, like a child and their imaginary friend, if I was to say to a child, 'No, no, you will never meet Toby the elephant or whatever again,' they would be upset, you see.

So what happens is that in satsang we are recognizing the nature of our true selves and we're realizing that the false one has never really existed. So what then happens is some fear comes that, 'But what happens to the life of this one?' You see? And of course we realize intellectually, hearing the words in satsang, that it's all taken care of, it doesn't exist anyway, so why so much concern? But that fear on which all the conditioning was picked up anyway... you see, when we were resisting the conditioning, you know, when our parents were trying to teach us, when society was trying to teach us, then we said, 'Why do I have to learn this mechanical engineering? And why do I have to learn this chemistry? And you know, why do I have to learn the capitals of countries and things like that?' They said, 'But using this knowledge you will be able to live better.' Now I think, become empty of all notions. This fear on the basis of which we picked up the conditioning is coming in: 'But can I really live like that?' You see? 'Is the intuitive intelligence good enough to lead this life?' That fear can be there, you see.

So somewhere it can feel like I need to hedge my bets a bit. I need to hedge my bets also a bit and say, 'Hey, this is fine for satsang and mostly it is fine, you see, but actually I want what I'm learning from satsang to help the life of this one to lead a better life.' You see? So it can seem like going too far when in satsang we are invited to let go of all identity, you see, or all notions of the small 'i'. Then it can feel like, 'No, no, but my attempt really was... the feeling with which I came to satsang was to be able to help this one. You are saying get rid of it. I don't want to get rid of it, I want to help this. I want to use my spirituality to help this one.' You see? But at the core of it is the primary conditioning that we have which says that greater knowledge helps us lead, for this one, a better life, you see.

So what's happening is that as we are learning to let go and we're learning to trust life to run itself, you see, life is running life. Life is leading life. It needs no assistance from a tiny aspect called the mind or the intellect. But for a while, while that trust is developing, we feel like, 'Okay, what is the right balance I need to have? Or what is the right relationship I need to have?' So what is the relationship of the ocean and a wave? That can be a metaphor to describe that. But in this case, funnily enough, the wave is non-existent. But provisionally, if it helps, then we can use the metaphor of an ocean and a wave to allow ourselves... as long as we consider ourselves to be the wave, then we can allow ourselves to surrender to the ocean because it is the ocean which is taking us wherever we are meant to go.

And then what happens is the self-judgment goes away. Otherwise, imagine the wave saying, 'Oh yes, I did so well, I went so high,' you see, or 'The last one was not so great, I didn't go high enough.' Then all that becomes laughable when you realize that all of it is coming from the ocean itself and it is not something that you are a puppet to. It is not something that is pulling your strings and you are a mere object that is being driven by a greater force. You are the greater force itself in which this flesh bucket is, as I said earlier, is showing up, you see, and is being lived in in the light of this very consciousness, in the light of this very ocean. The wave is playing out the way it is meant to. Yeah, but well, again, it's the logics which... I mean, there are a few things which are beyond my contemplation or beyond even my manifestation, so maybe more...

Pulling your strings and you are a mere object that is being driven by a greater force. You are the greater force itself in which this flesh bucket is, as I said earlier, is showing up, you see, and is being lived in in the light of this very consciousness. In the light of this very ocean, the wave is playing out the way it is meant to. Yeah.

Yeah, but well, again, it's the logics which, I mean, there are a few things which is beyond my contemplation or beyond even my manifestation. So maybe more understanding, more awareness will help, but I understand in my context. So maybe how different is my statement?

I promise to answer the question, but can we for a minute delve into this? When we say 'my context,' who are we talking about?

The small 'I' and my mind.

Okay. Now, what makes it you? If I want to start listing down, it's on with change. Can I help you with that? Maybe make it a bit simpler. So, what is more naturally you? So I'll continue using the term bigger and smaller like we're using in the conversation here. What is more naturally here: big 'I' or the smaller?

For me, naturally, is smaller now.

Now, this is what we must look at, you see, because this is my gift to all of you: to present to you the seeing, the recognition that like this, in the most natural way, you see already what is here is not limited in any way, is not constrained in any way, no matter what the perception may be, you see. So we're doing a bit of this experimentation with some previous questions as well. And this is what I'm saying: that for God to pick up the mask of individuality and then try to become God is a very difficult and many-lifetime type project, you see. For God to not pick up that mask is actually much simpler.

Now, the number one tool the mind has is to tell you that, 'Oh, who me? Little old me? No, no, I have to find God first. I cannot say something like that,' you see. It is too much. It's too much. So I'm not asking you to worry about what you see, whether it's arrogant, not arrogant, none of that. Just now, what is here now? You see, are you able to point out how you are limited in this very moment?

If in this particular moment, no.

You see? So no magic happened. Just the only thing that changes is that we are looking. Instead of buying into the mind's idea of our being limited, we're just allowing ourselves to recognize now that which is here now. That you are aware now—that which is aware now, does it have any limitation? Can we call it small in any way?

So, but yeah, no. However, I am always in a doubt whether is it also one step back of my mind only. Everything I have known is through mind, so how I am even going to go beyond it in any country?

Yes, yes. So to make it simpler, let's use Bhagavan's definition of mind. Now, what do you usually use? So he said the mind is a bundle of thoughts. And let's clarify that bundle of thoughts also as thoughts which are these conceptual messages that seem to pass through. Okay, so let's for the purpose of this conversation just limit our definition of mind to just that. And let's put all the rest—perception, you see, existence, love, truth—all of this, let's say that is just naturally appearing in being itself.

You talked about perception, that everything that you know is through the mind. So let's change that definition. The mind is just the conceptual interpretations which are coming and going, you see. But all perception, everything else, is happening as consciousness itself, as being itself. Now, without referring to those messages—that's what I mean when I say don't refer to the mind—pure perception can continue. That means uninterpreted perception can continue, and all interpretations can come and go. Now, what do you find yourself to be?

It is if I, if I drop that, simply I don't exist.

Who notices that you don't exist?

Isn't it my mind?

But you dropped that already. So that kind of cannot, you see. So what you say is that 'I dropped the mind,' which is the messages I'm not caring about. So you drop that, but perception is still continuing. The voice is heard, your very existence is palpable. So you don't not exist in that way. Only what you have taken yourself to be for a long time, that you cannot find. Is that what it means when you say 'I don't exist'?

True. When I say 'I,' it was all about what I thought about me.

Yes, so that doesn't exist. It's true. So let that one go. Let that one go. Don't try to resolve anything for that one. Don't try to add anything to that one narrative. Just let it go. What remains is what you're looking for.

Yeah. And at the very next moment it starts: 'Can I share this with Ananta? Oh wow.' I know, and then that's again...

Yes, yes. So just like—I don't know if you heard my conveyor belt with the sushi example. Did you hear that?

I would love to appear that I have.

So now, of course, this chain of restaurants is all over the world, but when I first saw it or heard about it, it was only in London. So what happened in this restaurant is that it's called Yo! Sushi. So what happened is the chefs would be in the kitchen, they will be preparing the sushi, and then they would be laying it out on a conveyor belt. So this kind of belt would come across all the tables and the people who are sitting at the table would just pick up whatever they wanted, you see. They had a menu which had the color code; so if the bowl was red, then they knew what it was and they would just pick it up. And at the end, they would have to pay for whatever bowls they picked up.

The mind is just like that conveyor belt, you see. It is presenting some ideas to you. Just don't pick up. If you want to be on a diet from calories, don't pick up any bowl from the tray. If you want to be on a diet from vasanas and conditioning, don't pick up anything from that tray, from the conveyor belt. Let it come and go. Now, what will happen first is saying, 'No, no, but the picking up happens automatically,' you see. That's presented in a bowl; just let it come and go. 'You see, but I cannot do this'—let that come and go. 'But it's not, I'm too caught up,' you see—let that come and go. All whatever it is presenting, let it come. Don't give it truth value. Don't give it your 'I am' and that power. For you as consciousness, as long as there's this being, that power cannot be taken from you.

I'll keep that with me. That is good enough.

That is very good. So you will also notice that the mind will present to you that, 'Oh, but effortlessly I am picking up.' But if you look at the metaphor, it is designed to show you that actually the effort is in the picking up. Just to be sitting in your chair is not effortful, although the mind's presentation for some time will be like that. It is natural for it to be like that. So to follow Bhagavan's advice: as long as it feels like effort to come to effortlessness, we can make that effort. But ultimately we will realize that even that was grace. So initially, if it feels like some effort to hold your hand like this and not pick up from the conveyor belt, just do that. It's fine.

That's very powerful. Thank you. I was struggling there where, you know, every time I question it on the validation of if it's requiring efforts and then there was nowhere to go at some point of time where and then I was at the same unconscious state. But now then he said, 'Let's go for it initially,' that will really help. Your conscious relation with your body—fine, it's fine, in the sense it's here, it's experienced, but I don't take myself to be it. It's here just like you would take your phone or a car or house, you see. It is taken to be that way, this body. And sometimes I refer to this one as 'this boy says,' you know, this kind of thing, but that can become too confusing, so I don't talk like that. But otherwise it's here, it's like a watch or a phone or something.

Are you able to operate as efficiently as before?

Well, that you have to tell me. My wife doesn't feel like I operate at all. That's everyone's life now, is that that. But more seriously, I don't like that. If you were to measure in terms of productivity, your efficiency...

My work still goes on. It's fine. There's no trouble because of that. There was a time just after I met Guruji there was feeling of no life force to get into that kind of work and things, but life took care of that and provided whatever life energy is needed to run this body and to make it move in whatever way it wants. So yeah.

Thank you. Those practical questions do harass one. Thank you very much. I'll leave it for others. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Now we have a system where you don't have to worry about the length of the interaction at all. And I have one more time, but you also—I don't know, you may not know about the transcript rule now.

I have heard that. I'll start doing that. I'll have to talk to somebody before I start. But yeah, thank you. Does anyone else other than you around... okay, let me talk about me. Around me already feeling irritated because of my sitting with you at six in the evening on Friday and others' activities, or trying less reactive or less enthusiastic as before. Yeah, well, is that okay? I mean, I don't need any solution or answer from it, but this is happening and that's what I wonder.

That one, please give it to me. I'm willing to sit at your feet and hear that answer because that answer is not there. And if you were to ask everyone on this call, you see, what their family and friends feel about them being in satsang, I'm sure at least 50-60% will give you a similar sort of response. It's fine. It's very natural for these things to happen. And actually, if it was the other way round, you see, we would also maybe—and if we were not in satsang and we were completely in a different frame of reference—then maybe we would also have reacted that same way.

Thank you. Thank you. Hope to see you in person soon after. I'm just not yet anyway. Thank you, thank you.

Okay, let's go to Jada. Hello, hello my dear. Is this trouble with the transcripts? Are the tears because the trouble is the transcripts?

I wish, but I can keep it to yes or no if you like. But I really like the transcript really and yeah, it's just so enjoyable too. Also in the act of doing, I don't know, I just enjoy it a lot really. Thank you again for this. I don't know, I just cry, cry, cry and cry from the beginning.

How is the exploration about who you are going? That's where we left off, no, last time?

Yeah, because we all stepped of course in that and yeah, first few days it was going on. And what has happened further... before, of course, like contemplation always was happening and I was sometimes doing nothing and sometimes listen meditation anyway. But after you asked me this question, something else happened there and like immense searching, but it's like I was not doing but immense forcing somehow. And it felt like I will go crazy really. Like I tried to find something. First few days it was like this and but I didn't give up. I mean, it was there but it's like the seeing was obscured too. And actually what has happened that like I want to hit my head to wall a lot, you know, just that feeling was incredibly present. Like the head was like this.

I'll help you. Let me help you with the inquiry so that we spend time on the actual looking. So one simple question I have for you, and I'm going to make the inquiry very simple for you because it is the nature of the mind to make it seem very confusing and, you know, to make you crazy and it's so difficult, you see. It does that and I went through that here as well for quite some time. So what I'm going to say may also be a bit troublesome because like after you ask me this, after you give it... what I'm saying is that what is happening, you see, is not so relevant for us to discuss. What is more relevant is for the question to really be seated deeply in your heart. So I'm going to ask you a very simple question: who is aware of the perception of this hand? Who is aware of the perception of this hand? And this is for everyone.

Here as well for quite some time. So, what I'm going to say may also be a bit troublesome because like after you ask me this, after you give it, what I'm saying is that what is happening, you see, is not so relevant for us to discuss. What is more relevant is for the question to really be seated deeply in your heart. So, I'm going to ask you a very simple question: Who is aware of the perception of this hand? Who is aware of the perception of this hand? And this is for everyone. The perception of the hand is there, yes?

Yes.

Who is that one who is aware of it?

I cannot find.

Yes, but you are confirming. You are confirming the perception of this hand. Perception is here, yes? And is the one sitting next to you telling you that?

No, no. It's direct.

No, it's direct. So, that you that is aware of this perception, that the perception is here—which one is that?

I don't know.

Now I'll give you the answer. That one is the true one. That one is the true one that is aware of all perceptions that come and go. So, how do you recognize it? When you confirm, 'Yes, I am aware of this perception,' that it is I that is aware, how do you confirm this?

Sorry, I missed what you said.

Yes, okay. So, it's okay. So, with some of the ones who are also here, I have asked them this maybe a thousand times, and at the end they were like, 'You are not leaving satsang today,' they told me, 'till you give us the answer to this question.' Okay? They got so upset and irritated with this question. But actually, it's a very simple question. It's very, very straightforward. So, the question is: Who is aware of the perception of this hand?

Me. You. I.

Yes. Now this 'I', what is it? What does that look like?

Look like me.

What does that mean? Elaborate. Elaborate on that. 'Looks like me' means what?

Just me. In the most natural way, it's no attribute, no quality, no...

That's it. That's it. That's it. I know you're making half-joke, but that's actually it. That's actually it. That is the reality of you. It is that simple. Now, represent only that one. When you make a report about yourself, try to represent only that one. The same one that is aware of this perception, which you very innocently, like a child, said actually that it's just me, isn't it? It's got no color, it's got no shape, it's Nirguna, you see. You're speaking scripturally without realizing. And that innocence may help you with this if you don't give it to the mind now. It may help you with this. So now you see that the one that is aware of all perception—about that one, we cannot mention a single quality or attribute. We cannot say where it is, how old it is, when it was born. We cannot say, 'I am not aware.' It's so apparent. I am aware of the perception of the hand; it is undeniable. So this 'I' that is aware, you see, now present only that one in your report about yourself.

Um, what I'm supposed to do?

See, present only that one with the 'me' you say this, who is empty of all qualities. We cannot say really anything about it in that way. How old is it? Where is it sitting? None of these things we can say about it, okay? And yet it is aware. Yet it is aware of all perception. So this 'you' is the reality of you. All appearances come and go for it, but it is not dependent on any of them.

Okay then. And who is suffering? I mean, through the satsang I was suffering, really, literally.

Let's question the meaning of 'really.' What do you mean by 'really'? What is your definition of real? In Advaita Vedanta, which is what satsang is based on—most of satsang is based on that—which comes and goes is not real. So when you say 'really,' you see, which means that you really believe it, you see, what does it mean? What do you mean by if it appears in perception, it is real? Suffering was present, was there. What is it that is worthy of your belief? If it appears as tears or some contraction energy, that makes it real, worthy of belief? So contemplate this, what you mean by when you say 'really.' And I saw the passion with which you said that, and I'm happy to meet that passion with the contemplation of what is real, you see. What is real? When we say 'really it was like this,' what makes something real? Is the appearance of something that makes it real? But that is the opposite of Vedanta. Vedanta is saying if it can be perceived, it is unreal because all perceptions come and go. So what do we mean by reality? We are questioning, otherwise we can remain in our narrative and time can seem like it is real. Time can seem like it is real because you use that to explain that suffering was true because you said before we have the conversation, you were really suffering. All of satsang actually means to be in the company of that which is true. It can also mean the company of that which is real, you see. So when you are so authoritative that it was really like that, I want to know what real means to you, because that's what all of us are exploring. What is real?

It was there. I mean, something was there. Something was in front of my perception.

Yes. So it was perceived. And by the virtue of it being perceived, is it enough to say it is real? Just because it is perceived?

I don't know about real or not real, Father.

But you do know, because you said you said 'really,' you see. So we use that idea. We use the idea to say, 'Ah, okay.' So like a mirage in a desert, it is perceived, you see. It is perceived. Does it make it real? Like what is perceived right now is that we are on a very stable ground. It is not moving. But what is the scientist telling us? The earth is moving like this, like this, also very fast, and it's moving around the sun also very far, you see. So what is real? Can perception be concluded just because it is seen, it is to be believed? Like 'seeing is believing'—is that true? Now when you say space has opened and it was clear that I have a choice to believe or not, but before it was not clear to me, I mean, when it appears...

That's good. So now, good. So this choice is made. This is very good. So now what will you choose to believe as real? On what basis? Father, the mind will distract you. Don't go with my question. I stopped it because it will get very threatened with this kind of questioning and it may get really irritated, frustrated, angry, crying—all of that may happen. It's fine, you see. But this is worth it, you see. This is my only service to you is for this. So very beautifully you came to the discovery: 'I have the choice to believe or to not believe.' Now the critical question for you is: What will you choose to believe to be real?

Now I see something which makes me lead to believe like I don't want to reject and suppress anything which is present, and it seems like it is somehow making the connection for me to go there.

Yes. So what are you saying? That you will believe everything that is perceived?

No.

Okay then. But I don't want you to... then what will you believe?

I don't need to believe.

Are you still with me or this is just coming from some like emotional response?

No, not emotional. I mean, belief is like something which is like from here to here. So I don't need to send...

Very good. So now let's return to a similar example. So now your perception is not saying 'hand,' 'long,' you see, 'male.' It's not saying any of that, you see. So empty of any of that interpretation, what is in front of you? If you don't take that leap, like you said, you just stay directly with what is being perceived, then what is in front of you? So if I say to you this, if I say to you 'believe this,' can you do it? You cannot believe or not believe a perception, isn't it? You need to believe an idea about it, which you identified as the leap, you see. It is the leap you take away from perception. But everything that you need to know is already inherent in the perception itself, you see. So the only thing now you will not be able to do is to create a false identity, because to create a false identity you need to take that leap. The mind will struggle with this.

No, I try to understand the false identity.

Yes, the narrative of the interpretations of perception, you see. It uses the narrative based on the interpretation of perception. And this is why transcript is helpful, because the words can seem complicated otherwise. So basically, it uses the story which it presents on top of what you are perceiving to put you as a limited character in that story. Without the interpretation, it is not possible to put you as a character.

Okay, I see.

By the way, this does not mean that we are rejecting anything. We are neither accepting nor rejecting; we are remaining neutral. Because I know that the mind will play that also and say, 'Oh, what does this mean? I have to reject, reject my suffering, reject my...' I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying neither that nor that, unless you can find a basis for claiming that that is true. You only want that which is true. Was it the question?

Yes.

So it's obvious. Hopefully you see it may not be as obvious a question as it sounds, because I can promise you that hundred percent of our beliefs are not true, but we only believe them because we think they are true.

Sorry, now I...

It's okay, we can come back to this. So I feel like it'll be useful to just recap. Who is aware of the perception of this hand? Who is it? What does that mean? Look like me. Is it orange? Is it small? Is it large? Is it ten years old? Is it a hundred years old? What can we see?

Nothing.

Yes. Me. Exactly. Exactly. Now that which we can only recognize but never really speak about, now that is your reality. Everything else is an appearance in time and space, which is fine for it to appear. But when we take this appearance to mean that I am an object, only an object in this appearance, that is when suffering starts or trouble begins. Without that, it is not possible to suffer. Without that, it is possible for the appearance of pain to appear, but to suffer from pain is a mental exercise.

Sorry, sorry. You'll be watching many times.

I want to add, Father, now whatever you report, now you have to present yourself as what you have just discovered, not as the one that you don't know. No reports.

I want to ask a question if I may, if it's not a distraction.

You have to trust your own heart and tell me whether your mind is distracting you with the question. Because this is really all that I'm saying. When you come to this self-discovery, you see, when you come to the self-discovery and you see yourself as this true one, as pure awareness itself, then is your question in reference to that?

By the way, again and again I found myself like this at the same point. So I want to bring this and we can look if it is really a problem or not.

This is the nature of conditioning, that although the truth is ever available to us, you see, also the truth is always available to us, but conditioning seems to have some momentum. So it has a habit. That is why—otherwise I shared the first satsang eight years ago and that should have been the last satsang I only I have had to share for eight years—because conditioning keeps presenting new propositions, new beliefs, and we need to clean up all of that. So it's very natural that although you may have an insight about what you really are, when the proposals from the mind are coming about that which you're not but you have taken yourself to be for a long time, they can still seem to have some gravitation to pull over. I want to bring something. I want you to look at who you are. Whose want will you go with more? Whose want will you value more? That's a good question. I should use that often.

I couldn't understand your question. I'm a little bit stumped. I don't know if there's such a word like that, but okay.

It's okay. So you want to look at something, no? So this is one hand is you. I want you to look at who you are. What is your reality, you see? Now, which should we value more? Which should we accept? Yours. But the other one troubling. Okay, just know that other one troubling me when you are not with me, please. No, but I am this one. You have to trust is the solution to all possible trouble. All trouble.

I couldn't understand your question. I'm a little bit stumped. I don't know if there's such a word like that, but okay, it's okay. So you want to look at something, no? So this is one hand is you. I want you to look at who you are, what is your reality, you see? Now, which should we value more? Which should we accept? Yours, but the other one troubling. Okay, just know that other one troubling me when you are not with me, please. No, but I am this one. You have to trust is the solution to all possible trouble. All trouble, not just what is troubling you now or yesterday or last week. All trouble. Easy. The mind will convince you to solve the wrong problem and to keep solving it over and over again and resist you from solving this true inquiry which you made some headway in today. So I'm happy with that. But don't allow your mind to distract you. Satsang is not to solve trouble again and again and again. Satsang is to chop off the root of all trouble.

Yeah, I see, Father. Also, I didn't left any problem exactly, like really.

Yeah, what is really? You come to satsang to find the truth, and truth and really is same thing. So that is the main question: what is real? A dream is real? Okay.

Yeah, I don't know what is real now. I don't know. I cannot... I don't know what is real.

So why I'm harping on this point again and again is because, like, there are some politicians, every time they lie they say, 'Believe me,' okay? The same way the mind will come and tell you, 'This is how it is really.' But you can question that and say, 'Really? What do you mean really? What is real mean?'

Father, I'm just so happy about giving this real thing. Um, okay, because also thoughts and I don't know...

We can... you have enough order for today. I have given you my highest teaching in a way. I have given you today my highest teaching. So stay with that. Don't allow your mind any space to say, 'But this, then that and this.' You stay with what I have highest for you. For which you are doing this, for which you are doing this to me.

Yes, yes, exactly. Thank you. Hello, Ananta. Did you call my name? Yes, yes. Actually, before you did that, now it's fine. Thank you. Thank you so much for letting me ask the question. And again, I have my paper, so I would just read it if you don't mind. Yes, thank you. So I understand then all is good, even this question and your answer is good. And all display of identification and waking up from identification is all good. And also I understand and this mind is just a bucket and won't ever understand this play. But I would like to ask about this evil energies, legal energy, evil like black energies, must working also as a part of God then? And sometimes they seem really...

Before we go, can we pause for a moment? Yes, sure. See, when you say that 'I understand that all is God,' what do you mean by that? Just expand on that a bit.

Yes, but I understand I have to use 'I' but because we was talking last time and 'I' is God, very clear then every part of their life, every aspect of the life, even the playing of that manifested world. And then I believe I am this body, and even then we are speaking now and you let me know then I am not this body as an alarm clock and I start to come out from this dream. And is all the play of the God to understand that.

You see, there are two ways to understand this. One is that I believe it so I heard from the master, so now I want to believe that all is God, you see? So I have a concept in my intellect. Is he saying all is God? There is no subject, you see? The other understanding is that I don't need a concept, you see? I don't need a concept, but in my heart, in my intuition, it is apparent that there is no separation. So when you say 'I understand that,' which one are you talking about?

Yes, at the moment I talking about the first one, then I just want to believe and I believe is true because you say I'm Guru. Just but I remember there was times, maybe short times or longer times in my life, and I was in Sahaja Yoga when it was really true for me. At the moment is just maybe another concept, but I believe more than mine own own concepts.

So for a moment, yeah, don't understand anything. You don't understand anything at all. You don't have to understand and all that. Can I... we will definitely come to the dark energy, don't worry. What I'm saying is that just a few moments you don't have to understand anything at all. No reasoning, no God, no Self, no nothing. No opposites of any soul. Just let go of every concept that the mind is presenting to you.

Because there is in my mind and there is some thing then I have to answer whatever you will ask now and so I have to be ready to say something.

This is very good you said that. Okay, now when you answer, if there is no answer, don't answer, you see? Yeah, just if an answer comes just in the mouth, it may feel like it's coming from the heart, but don't worry. Sometimes the answer is just coming in the mouth. But if it is just in the mind, let it come and go. Don't worry. You don't have to have the right answer. In fact, I don't want any right answer. Yes, let go. Are you still here?

Yes.

That which is still here, does it have any distinctions about anything? There's no rush to answer. I don't want the right answer. Just naturally if something comes you can answer, but just it's important to look. That which is here, what distinction does it have or is it making?

I can't really answer.

Yeah, that's fine, that's fine. Is anything troubling you? When you say 'you,' then you mean this? No, don't go there in that playground at all. Okay, okay. Let that come and go, it's fine. Just actually if some response comes, don't worry. Remember that I am not judging you in any way.

There is so many things in here and they just...

Yeah, let them come and go. Let them come and go like the bowls of sushi which you don't have to pick up. Just come and be good. I'm sorry. I can't explain.

I can't either. I don't understand.

And you don't have to, I said. And you don't have to. And this thing is only an attempt to squeeze the entire ocean into our head, you see? And there's no chance that that can ever happen. No wonder so much with it. This bucket is not big enough to contain the entire ocean.

I don't know what's going on. Because there is some really... there's no cause for whatever is going on. I just then I should know. Because now he's feeling these things is not happening to me. So who is the one?

Just leave it. Yeah, even the highest spiritual pointers will come as distractions. Another and another and another question is always coming. Let's see how many it does because this seems very important. See you guys. I'm crazy. Is it going to be on YouTube or something? Because we should only... so I don't know. You don't have to. But how to live like you don't like me to know? Yes. Okay, I just think everyone is next to me to say not. Forget about it.

So what shall I do now?

You don't have to understand that. Don't go there. Yeah, yeah. Because without understanding anything that was created, yeah, there's no cause.

No, I just want to keep... I just don't want to lose. I just want to remember this.

Lose this. Lose this that you want to keep. Hmm, I see how the mind is playing. It is very funny. It isn't fun? It's very funny because always want to convince me. I'm sorry.

It's very good, it's very good. So tell me now, what just shall I go?

Nowhere. Sir, my heart conversation, thank you so much. You don't have to understand anything with mind now. After this, will present all proposals to you to try and understand even this conversation. Okay, let's go to Victories, Leela, and Edgar. So Victories first. Can you hear me? Yes, this little louder is good. Your audio is good, yes. Okay, okay, it's good.

So I... there is some identification that is still happening and I feel like this maybe this identification also he is know what I am. Feels like when identification happens or comes, this illusion feels like a... I don't know, like an eye that go again with identification or that there is a belief or the this identification or something. I don't know.

Just relax your forehead. You don't fully relax. That's it. Can you identify with your forehead relax? I don't know. Right, right. Try to identify but don't don't make any juice in your head. What question is left?

There is no question, but there is a feeling like incompleteness or something.

Whatever causes completeness or incompleteness, just leave them. Yes, don't try to conclude anything about yourself. Whatever conclusion you make will not be true anyway, either way. Yeah, yeah.

That is a kind of 'I' or something that is percy.

No, that is everything. Nothing to put in the story. That is what is frustrating you know at times, but allow that frustration to wobble a bit. It will go away, don't worry. This frustration is a sensation and that's all it's even. But even that conclusion you don't need. Hello.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, my lovely. Thanks, I love you so much. Thank you, welcome. Thank you for everything. Um, I've been I've been listening to you since in October and since December I wanted to talk with you but there was a very strong resistance because first I thought like I don't know speak English so I could understand he won't understand me. But I know that was only a resistance, only a narrative that is not true. Yes, and then it's not true. And and also because I know that you speak the language of love and it doesn't matter if you don't understand my language. And and then I I just want to expose these body-mind addictions and bad habits and advices. I know I've been struggling with this for a long time and but I know I want to chop the root because today is addiction and yesterday was other thing and tomorrow will be another. And I just want to put this at your feet because I really want to know who I am because when I'm connected with my truth there is nothing, there are no vices, there are no nothing with things that I have to struggle. There is just I don't know, silent truth. And I just want to expose myself to you because because I I feel in the bottom of my heart that this is so um important to me. Thank you very much.

Do you feel like the recognition that is being pointed to, do you feel like it is oscillating or it's quite tangible? What is your what is your report with with your pointers, with your points, with your recognition of what is being pointed to? Do you feel like you feel like that is shaky shaky or do you feel like it's pretty apparent, it's pretty clear?

You you mean uh with with this satsang now, right? Right, with what we've we've been talking about. Uh, we can start, yes, we can start with this. Yes, I I feel I I feel very cold. Yes, I feel calm.

And do you feel like a question like I was asking earlier, like who's aware of the perception of the hand? Do you feel like you you can look at it, you can look together?

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And there is a question when when you ask about the hunt that I'm not sure if if this question I'm giving this question to my mind that is also is always arising since I know like one month ago that when I'm practicing the invitation Mooji asks, 'Can it get sentimental or emotional?' Emotional is the word. And I I introduce that it can't. But then for example when uh when I listen to you or when I listen which is a pointer point, I usually I get very emotional and I cry or I laugh or I yes. And then my question is where does these emotions or comes from? Because I I feel like it is from my heart but I know intellectual intellectually that it can be emotional.

Okay, good. That's a good place to start. So so let's look at this. So there can be a concept of something like in the world when often we hear about people they will say I'm not very...

Then, for example, when I listen to you or when I listen, which is a pointer, I usually get very emotional and I cry or I laugh. And then my question is: where do these emotions come from? Because I feel like it is from my heart, but I know intellectually that it can be emotional.

Okay, good. That's a good place to start. So let's look at this. There can be a concept of something like in the world when often we hear about people, they will say, 'I'm not very head; I am mostly heart.' But usually, when they speak like that, they are talking about an emotional sort of response, you see. We go with the heart. But in satsang, when we use the term, as you know, when we use the term heart, we're using it for a deeper intelligence, which is the intuition, you see. So the intuitive heart is what we refer to as the heart.

So from that perspective of the heart being this intuitive intelligence, then the appearance of emotions, you see, is another aspect of the perception of the world. It's just another part of the manifest creation, you see. Just like there can be clouds in the sky—sometimes very beautiful looking clouds, sometimes a dark looking cloud, very scary looking cloud with lightning and all of that—in the same way, then, at the layer of emotion, these kind of clouds can come and go of all different varieties, you see.

Now, that which is aware of the perception of these clouds, you see, that which is aware—is that changing its state in any way because of what cloud is appearing? So that is Guruji's question. Does that get sentimental? It is to look at with the rising of these states. It's not a question of whether the state should arise or not; they will. As long as the human existence is there, all the states can come and go. It's all fine, you see. But what we are checking on is to see whether the reality of you is changing along with the states in some way. That is what the question is.

So, of course, emotions can arise from the emotional center, which we call the heart, you see, which we can also call the heart. But in satsang, what we refer to as the heart is more the intuitive insight. Like when I ask you the question, 'Are you aware now?' You do not see the one that is aware, and yet you can confirm, 'Yes, I'm aware.' So that is the intuitive heart that you're speaking of, the seat of your knowledge, the seat of Atma Gyan. And the problem with language is that there are very limited words, so we have to pick up some words and use them in different ways. We should have invented a new sort of term for that intuitive intelligence, but we just ended up using the heart as a term.

So there's a physical heart, which is the physical heartbeat. Then the world refers to the emotional heart, which is saying, 'No, no, I'm just heart, you know.' So if I'm feeling joy, it's all joy; I don't let my rationality come in the way. That is what most people say when they're talking about being all heart. But the heart that we are referring to is the seat of pure intelligence, that for which self-knowledge is so apparent. Who's aware of the perception of this hand? Your head cannot answer, really, you see, and its answer is meaningless even if it does. But here in your heart, it is unmistakable and undeniable that it is you. But it is that you which doesn't have a start or an end, doesn't have a birth or a death. So this is the heart that we have.

Thank you very much. Thank you very, very much. Thank you. And one last thing, I just want to ask you a little prayer for... I'm from Colombia and I'm living in Cali, and we are in a war since a long time. A place where the front line is, the resistance is fully, very strong.

Yes. Is it starting to settle a bit or is it still full on? I was asking Paula—I don't know if you know Paula. Paula is also from Colombia.

Yes, she's my sister. She's my sister. And I'm living in Cali, where is the center of all the things that are happening, and we are living very hard times. I know this is in all the world, but I just wanted to ask a prayer for us and for more consciousness for this country, please.

Actually, Colombia has been in my heart for a few weeks now because I saw this YouTube documentary about the front line and these kids who are, you know, fighting the government and these things, and it really touched my heart. Colombia has been in my heart, the whole nation and everyone. You just make sure that you're safe and you're not taking any undue risks.

I'm good. Thank you very much. Very much. I love you so much. Thank you for your patience.

Did I see this? I just... I know all my questions have all been answered and I need to listen to this whole thing again. It's just such a resistance. Sorry, during the transcription from last week, I say you said something that I just glossed over, passed right over. You said, 'Is it clear to you that consciousness, or you as consciousness, has the ability to...' I can't remember if you said let go of and pick up anything. And I just... I haven't answered that. It's not clear. It's just not clear.

And listening to you saying about who perceives this hand, how it goes for me, there's an answer that there's a perception, but then there's the feeling. It goes 'I' and that is located. It feels located. And it doesn't... I don't know if it's true. I think all this time that I've been looking at 'I', it may be a personal 'I'. And sometimes I can't tell the difference between this feeling and the feeling of fear—this feeling of 'I' and fear. I don't know if it's different. And so I think like all this time I may have been just thinking, going to this thought that 'I'... if this is the I-thought and not... it's very located. So yeah.

Good. I can help you with this. This is a good one. So I said: who is aware of the perception of this hand? You said in hearing this question, there's a feeling that comes up in response, and the feeling seems to carry the message of 'I'. But this is not unlimited; this is located. This seems like it is limited. Now, who is aware of that limitation or of that feeling? Isn't that feeling also another perception? Is the one that's aware another perception?

Yeah, because this is the most important thing. So we'll go really slowly.

So you said the feeling arises. Now, would you say that this feeling is also perceived?

Yes. Yes.

And who is aware of this perception? Who is that?

It feels like my mind is taking it over because it knows it's supposed to be this spacious, but it feels a little farther back but still limited.

Yes, good. It's good. You're doing well. Really gripping. There's something gripping on. Don't worry. Whatever it is, just expose it and we look at it together. So if there's some imagery of like dark empty space, the question still remains because even dark is perceived. Just like light is perceived, dark is also perceived. So who is aware of that perception of dark or empty?

There is a loud message: I can't go back further. I can't.

Yes, you know, it can't. It definitely can't. That which is completely... it can't go there. So don't worry with that one. Don't worry about that one because the mind cannot go there. It's right. Okay. So let that be easy. Now I want to present it very simply to you. You are aware of these perceptions, isn't it?

Yes.

So how are you able to confirm that? Do you see this 'I' that is aware of the perception? No. Another thought that you have: 'No, I must be the one that is aware of the perception.' Is it not one thought? No. Yet it is so clear, isn't it? You cannot deny it. I mean, if I were to tell you, 'No, you are not aware of the perception of the screen in front of you and the hand in it,' you'll say, 'Of course, of course I am,' isn't it?

Yeah. It feels that this... yeah, this is fighting so hard to be in, to get in. It's the same one that I feel. It's the same one that wants to get all my medical things, be assured that this body is never going to die. It's like clinging onto these and fighting to be in the middle.

Yes. Well, it's the same one. But here, this one cannot go. It can present many solutions and proposals, but none of them mean anything, you see. It's just simpler than that. It's so simple. You are aware of the perception, but this 'you', you don't see it. You don't have to think about it, and yet it is so clear it is you. So that simplicity is self-recognition. Believe it or not, that simplicity, which is independent of having to see something or independent of having to think something, that is self-recognition. It is the only thing, quote-unquote 'thing', you know in this way. But everything else you need a perception or a notion.

So it is... there is this 'I' that I go to is just another perception. It's just the feeling of 'I'. It's not...

Find out if you are aware of it or it is aware of you. Is the feeling aware of you or you are aware of it? And you see that? Okay. So awareness has to be prior. It has to be greater.

I feel I've been clinging to the wrong one and I don't know... I've been clinging to that 'I' all this time thinking that... following like Ramana saying that it goes to the spiritual heart and trying to go to a location.

And give you some more good news. The good news is that even that, many times what we are holding on to is the palpable taste of the essence of beingness itself. So it's not such bad news. It's like being in the presence of God. It's fine. Okay. So you can sort of go in and just hold on to that sense. One thing. So it's a win-win situation. As long as you're not taking any mental representation to be true about you, all is gone, all is fine.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Welcome. Let's go to Mr. Kool. Is that actually your last name or is it a representation of being cool? Oh, did I lose you? One second, one second. You have to unmute again.

It's my Dutch last name.

I see. Yes. Hey, I can tell you the meaning in Dutch.

Yes, please do.

A cabbage? I see. That's nice. Mr. Cabbage. That's nice. This was sweet. It sounds like one of those books that children have, Mr. Men books.

So no question, actually. Just coming at your feet with so much joy and gratitude and appreciation for this moment. Actually, there's not... there's a family of three young kids, so there's not a lot of time in my life to really sit with full attention in your grace in this way. And yeah, so very grateful to be able to thank you directly like this, right here with me in my heart. And thank you. Thank you for this.

It's really, really very touching. I'm happy to have this opportunity as well. Love to you and your children. I remember them from our last conversation also you mentioned. How old are they now, your three?

There's two boys. They are four and two, almost five and three. And there's a little girl, almost nine months now. So it's a beautiful practice and every night...

Yes, it gets a bit easier. Well, I won't say it gets easier. Now my kids are both teenagers, so I won't say it gets easier. It's just the nature of the trouble changing. It's not so much the late waking and thing, but it's a different type of late night. Yeah, I look forward to all of the phases and all of the everything that it puts into the light, you know. Every phase is very strong and very beautiful. Blessings to all of you.

Thank you, Father. So blessed to be at your feet. I just want to expose this one that comes when there is a situation that the person used to be very attached to, like arguments or those type of things. Like, it's very, very easy to go with that one.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. It is not true that sometimes it's like the grooves—the grooves are there, and when something falls into that groove, it seems natural to go along with that. But you don't have to worry because in satsang, all these grooves are being cleaned away. All these grooves have been cleaned over. Don't be very impatient with yourself.

It is a situation that the person used to be very attached to, like arguments or those type of things. It's very, very easy to go with that one. Thank you for sharing that.

It is not true that sometimes it's like the grooves. The grooves are there, and when something falls into that groove, it seems natural to go along with that. But you don't have to worry because in satsang all these grooves are being cleaned away. All these grooves are being cleaned away. Don't be very impatient with yourself. There will be times where if something is familiar and the way that we are used to responding, that may come back, you see. But don't judge yourself too harshly in those situations. Be as kind to yourselves as you're trying to be with everyone else, and soon you will find that in the openness, then these grooves will also start to dissolve. And you laugh at some of this as you go along.

It's funny you say that. Brother yesterday told me that because I was so in the mind and I couldn't go that good out of that, it was like, yeah, sometimes it feels like I am in the illusion and I'm aware of that and I cannot get out of that. And yeah, it's so serious.

I have a tip for you then. Just treat this body as another appearance as part of the world appearance. You don't have to pressurize yourself that this body has to be a true representative of the truth that you're finding or something. Let that come organically later as it has to. For now, just like you're treating every other appearance—your siblings, your friends, you see—they are also appearing in front of you. This one is also like that. So don't have any expectation that that behavior has to change or now that one has to be in a different way or something. Inwardly, you be as open and empty as you can and don't worry about how this one is behaving or saying.

I trust you, Father, within my whole heart.

I know. Thank you. Here also it feels like that. I see that that body saying some words, I see this body saying some words. Both are appearing in front of me. Neither can I truly say is more me than the other. So then this boy, this appearance of this man—one boy now with grey hair—but he's free to play out as it is playing out in the light of consciousness. Thank you. Very good. Okay, I feel we are done for today. My throat is done. Somebody wants to sing for us? But he has to have his mask. Singing, singing mothers, yes.

Oh, sorry Father. It's fine.

Very nice. Very good. And your aura is also functioning very well.

It is going to be on and off. I don't know why it does that, Father.

I keep changing. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Mooji Ki Jai. Thank you.