To Come to God, To Be With God, We Have To Have the Innocence of a Child - 20th September 2024

Um, this is very new to me, but um, I am getting introduced to Advaita itself. Not even sure if that's the right answer, but I'm still finding it over there.

Guruji teaches you what?

Yeah, he is the... you want to pass the mic to...

Yeah, just feel at home. Don't worry, you're just having a conversation.

Namaste. Actually, his name is Kaya Swami. Actually, for the past 15 years, I had been to Ramanasramam. I was a devotee of Bhagavan because I don't know exactly the practice of that self-inquiry. Then just I have gone through some of his literature. Swami, then I was actually... I was chanting the Guru Mantra given by my other Guru. Then I somehow attracted to Bhagavan's teaching and now only he recently he advised me to attend to your class.

Feel at home. You live in Bangalore? No? Actually, we were staying in Andhra. These two, my son and daughter-in-law, will stay here only. Actually, I am from Andhra. Only today you are here? Yes, I came to visit them. Then today he advised me to go over here. Maybe due to Divine Play, I have come to your feet. I have no power. I'm just a foolish man. There's nothing special about me. Let's see if we can explore something together. And wherever you want to stop me, you stop me, yes? Because I have this habit of keeping on talking. So, if you feel that you want one point clarified or something is not clear, just stop. So, we come to spirituality like we come to everything because we want something. We don't, in today's world, we don't do anything unless we want something, you see. So, whether it is peace or joy or love or just freedom from our problems to have a stress-free life, is it? So many people come into spirituality for that. How does it happen that in this inward journey, something changes about our life? We must be coming across something which is beyond the ordinary, isn't it? It's only because there must be something which is beyond this realm of Maya that we come to, or we come closer to, and then that brings us to a point where our life seems freer from suffering compared to what it was before. So, you used to do japa Mantra, now you're doing self-inquiry. So, you must be finding something as a result of that. Some seeming benefit must be coming. And for me, what is not of interest is the benefit, but who causes that benefit to come, huh? That must be important, no? It is not the gift that he gives, but who is the Giver of the gift that is more important. So, who is the Giver of the gift? We know. Say it, it's okay. Who must be giving that gift? Whether it is peace, whether it is love, whether it is joy, it must be God only. It must be God only giving that gift. So, in what form can we come to God in this human existence? In what way can we meet God in this human existence? What we see? Don't worry, there's no right or wrong answer. If you open up, then I know where you may be getting stuck or where I need to push a little more. So, in what form is it? Okay, let's start with the very basic. God is there. He's there, yes? Now, in this human life, when we are living in a world which is full of appearances and disappearances, full of all this what we call Maya, we can see reflections of God, but we don't meet God directly, isn't it? Now, in this human existence, is it possible for us to meet God directly? What you... so when we do the self-inquiry, when you ask 'Who am I?', who are you hoping to encounter? Your true self. And that is called Atma, isn't it? Atma. And there is no difference between Atma Darshan and Atma Gyan. It is the same thing, yes? So, if you wanted to meet yourself, why do you have to do the inquiry? Why not just look in a mirror, huh? Because what do you feel? If I wanted to meet Ananta, I should see a mirror, no? Ah, so that's just a reflection. We want to meet the reality. How to meet the reality? How will asking the question 'Who am I? Who am I? Who am I?'... I can keep asking 'Who am I? Who am I?', will I meet reality like that? I won't meet reality like that. It must be something which takes us beyond the realm of perception into a recognition of that which is unperceivable. If it was perceivable, then we would see it with our senses. We won't need to bother with inquiry. We won't need to bother with chanting any prayer. We could just say, 'Where is it? Where is it to be found?' Because everything that is perceivable has a location, you see. So, if the reality of God, not the reflection of God, if the reality of God was perceivable, then somebody would be able to give us the address. All these great sages, they would say, 'I found God. This is the longitude, this is the latitude. You go over there, you will find God.' But can we find God that way? So, to find God, which way we have to go? Inside. Inside, yes. So, when we ask 'Who am I?', if some imagination comes or if some thought comes, we are supposed to ask, 'Who witnesses even that? Who is the witness even of that?' So then we ask, then what happens? You must be asking in the inquiry, you must be asking. So, what happens then? Stillness comes. Stillness comes. And stillness comes and stillness goes, you see. Anything that comes, it goes, no? So then we feel, the day in which stillness comes or peace comes, we feel, 'I did inquiry properly today.' The day when mind is too active, we feel, 'Inquiry didn't happen well today.' We feel like that. But that which witnesses both the stillness and the noise, does anything happen to that? Nothing happens. Very, very... so that one, what is the color of that one? No color, no shape, no size, nothing. Then how do you recognize that one, huh? That is the question, isn't it? So, if you're going to come to Atma or Brahman, can we recognize Atma like this? Can't recognize like this. Why not? It's not an object. Exactly. Every object has some attribute, some guna, isn't it? Now we are looking for that which is beyond the guna. It is leading to the Nirguna, yes? So, what capacity do we have in which we can find the Nirguna? Can any of our senses meet the Nirguna? Cannot meet, you see. Can any of our thoughts capture the Nirguna? Cannot capture. So, if senses cannot do it, you see, and thoughts cannot capture it, then what else do we have through which we can come to Darshan of Atma, Darshan of reality? That is the question we must look at first, isn't it? So, because many are waiting for an experience of the Self, but they think that the experience will be like a worldly experience, or they think that some fireworks will happen, some byproducts will come and that will be the Self. But it is not that. We have to use a different lens to meet God, because God cannot be met with this lens. Cannot be met by thinking, no matter how much we think and how much we perceive. With me so far? Any doubt, you ask me. So, how does the question then 'Who am I?' help us? It helps us a lot, but in what way? Because the mind cannot give the answer to who I am. It will say Brahman, Nirguna Brahman, the reality, Absolute, Bhagavan, Ishwar, Atma. It'll know all these answers, but those answers are just words, isn't it? Without realization, those words are just pointers, isn't it? So then, how does the self-inquiry help us? The stillness comes, you said. So, what becomes still? So, when stillness comes, means something was noisy and now it became still. So, what was noisy? Yes, exactly. So, a mind which is so noisy, then it became still. In that stillness, we allow the Satguru presence within ourselves to awaken, the intuitive capacity within ourselves to awaken, you see. So, the Atma itself is the true Guru. This body is nothing. No body is anything. The true teacher is the Atma itself, which is... which we call the Satguru, you see. So, the Atma is the Satguru. In that stillness, because we are not thinking 'me, me, me, me, what will happen to me, what can I get, when will I be free', all that 'me' is gone. In that absence of the obsessive grasping at 'me', in the absence of that, the true teacher, which is the Atma within, shows us through its inner eyes—don't imagine any of this, I just have to use words—shows us through its inner eyes the reality of what I really am is Nirguna Brahman. So, in our inquiry, first we come to Atma Darshan, and in the light of the Atma Darshan itself, we come to the highest recognition of who we are. That is why the Guru is called the bringer of light, because it is a unique light. It is not light like this, because in light like this, you see that which is perceivable. But in the light of the Guru, you see that which is unperceivable. That is why it is a unique light. That is the True Light. Because that unperceivable reality which you are can be found only in the light of the Atma within, which is the true Guru. The outer Guru's job—and your Guruji must be doing it very well—is to bring you to the inner Guru. That is the only job, actually. So, the ones who are servants of God, who play the role of teachers in the world, but actually are just servants, huh? So, servants like me, our job is just to bring you to the true teacher who is sitting in your heart, who is here, not in the physical heart, but in your spiritual heart. Now, how many times do you have to do the inquiry before Atma Darshan can happen? 100 times, thousand times, million times? That nobody can say. Why can't anybody say? If it was like digging for water in a well, you see, in the olden days, then you knew that, okay, 100 feet or 200 feet you dig and then water will come. If water is there, it will come. So, why is it not like that with inquiry? There should be some guarantee, no? After thousand times sincerely I asked the question 'Who am I?', so then Atma Darshan should happen. Does it work like that? Huh? There are some who spend all their life asking, don't get. Some who come for first satsang, in first satsang something happens. Again, how does it work? So, that is why it needs our full effort, but His full Grace. Both have to be full, you see. So, we cannot say because it is His Grace, I will not inquire, you see. And we cannot say that because I inquire, His Grace must be there. So, our job is to, like Ma Shabri, collect the ber every day, be ready for Ram Ji to come, you see, and make sure that the path is full of flowers and beautiful for Him to come. After how many years He came? She waited whole lifetime. Whole lifetime. At the end of her life, actually, her Guru had told her that your sadhana is over, you're entitled to Mukti, you come with me, we all going to Swarga Loka. It is said like this. So, she said, 'No, I know in my heart that Ram Ji will come and give me Darshan in this Loka, so I will wait for Him because I have faith,' you see. Now, people would have called her stupid. The Guru is saying, 'Come with me, we'll go to Swarga Loka, we have Mukti now.' You are saying, 'No, I want to wait for Ram.' You see? So much of our spiritual life will go in a way where others around us will not understand what he keeps doing, sitting, asking 'Who am I? Who am I?'. So, you see, people will not understand, but we have to have the faith of Shabri that as I do this practice which my master has told me to do, then the Lord will give me Darshan. So, when we say Atma Darshan, Atma is what? Whose presence is it? It is the presence of God Himself. So, that presence of God Himself is sitting in our heart. So, my presence is His presence, you see? Isn't that beautiful? That my very being, my very existence is His presence, is it? But Maya's job is to make us forget that, make it seem like it doesn't exist, is it? So, when the world seems more real than Atma, then we are in Maya. When Atma seems more real than world, then we are with God, okay? And without God's blessing, the Atma's blessing, we can never find the Nirguna. Nirguna Brahman. It is only in the light of God in the form of the Satguru presence, in the form of the Atma, that we can come to the Darshan of the Absolute reality. It's like the conversation we were...

Existence is His presence, is it? But Maya's job is to make us forget that, make it seem like it doesn't exist. Is it? So when the world seems more real than Atma, then we are in Maya. When Atma seems more real than the world, then we are with God. Okay? And without God's blessing, the Atma's blessing, we can never find the Nirguna Brahman. It is only in the light of God, in the form of the Satguru presence, in the form of the Atma, that we can come to the darshan of the Absolute reality.

It's like the conversation we were having that day. Someone—apparently, I feel it was something lost in translation—but apparently someone said that if you worship God as something different from you or greater than you, then you can never be enlightened or never come to mukti. And it was very good that you brought that up because many times we can have these doubts, and it's very important that they come up in satsang. So I look at that also as Grace, that it's very important that we talk about these things very openly.

So my feeling at that point and at this point was that for me, if I can't bow down to God, if I can't pray to Him and love Him in this way, then I don't want Enlightenment. I don't want Enlightenment without devotion, and I don't want devotion without insight. So what was on offer was very beautiful, probably the highest, and yet for a bhakta of Ram, anything cannot compare to being with Him or meeting Him. So both the paths of Bhakti and Jnana are very beautiful and ultimately meet as one. You see, Bhagavan Himself said that, like two wings of the same bird: one is Bhakti, one is Jnana. You see, you can take whichever side and it will lead to both at the end. Very good, very good, very good.

So yes, from Bhakti we can come to Jnana, and in some cases from Jnana also we come to Bhakti. So what was the... so we said that no matter how much we put effort into a sadhana, there is no guarantee of it, and yet we must put full effort. You see, our faith is the only guarantee, like Ma Shabri's faith was her only guarantee. There was no written contract between Ram and her that He will come, isn't it? But her faith in her heart, she knew. Same way, in our heart we also know that if we really strive for the highest, if we really devote ourselves to God, then God will not be away from us for our entire life.

So we said there's no guarantee of when it will happen, but there's almost a guarantee of when it will not happen. Almost a guarantee. Why I said almost is because in God's grace everything is possible actually, but almost a guarantee it will not happen if... what do you know? Yeah, so if the lane... the lane is very narrow, huh? There is space only for one: either God or me. When there is me, there cannot be God. When there is God, there cannot be me. So if we are doing our spirituality also for me, and God is for me instead of me being for God, then that becomes the obstacle.

Especially when we are using things like the inquiry, because many times I've noticed that in the inquiry, when people are inquiring, they're sitting on a 'me' and then saying 'Who am I?' Like the 'me' bhava is too strong. And the inquiry itself will help to dissolve that in some way, but that can seem like a very tedious, difficult process. So it's very important to let go first. Empty yourself, is it? Empty yourself, and from that empty bhava, empty place, then ask 'Who am I?' You can see the difference. Like when somebody's talking with the 'me' like that, like 'Who am I?' Or with the humility of Hanuman Ji: 'Who am I? Who am I?'

And ask for... before you start your practice, ask for God's help. Pray, bow down to God and say, 'Please assist me in this process. I can't do it, You have to do it for me. And please dissolve, help me dissolve whatever this ego, this pride that remains here.' Start in that beautiful inner environment, then you will find that... you may find that it's all God's grace, but you may find that your inquiry becomes very potent, very strong.

Father, you said full effort and full Grace. You're also saying even effort on my part is His Grace, like I'm asking for His Grace?

Yes, ultimately it is all His Grace. But even like when we are surrendering, there are things which are so tough, they seem so tough. We have so much in the world we want to grab, there's temptation of all kinds constantly, and to be empty of that, to be free, to let go, many times seems like very difficult effort. So we must put that effort. I keep taking this simple example that if my son was on a holiday and he came and met me, then it's sweet, no? Nice, good you came. See? But if my son was very busy, very full of work deadlines, pressure, this, that, something in the marriage also, something is happening, something, something everywhere something is happening, and still in the middle of that very busy day he took the effort to say, 'Hello Pa, I love you,' then that is much more touching to the heart of the father, isn't it?

So when we take the effort to turn towards God, God knows every moment of our life. He knows this temptation is there, this work is like this, so much is going on in our life, and yet in the middle of all of that we bow down to God in our heart or bow down to any reminder of God, then that is very beautiful. See? So don't wait for things to become easy to start the journey towards God. When it's very difficult, take a moment, one moment, say one 'Ram.' See? One 'Ram.' You're having a very busy day: 'Ram.' So those moments are very valuable.

So then our inquiry becomes a process of deepening of faith and devotion as well. Otherwise, it becomes a very dry, just mechanical-seeming process, which it isn't. It's a very beautiful process which is right from the Upanishads; it is made available to humanity to come to self-discovery, to come to Atma Gyan. So the process of self-inquiry actually is very simple. It seemed very difficult because many times it seemed like the result doesn't come that easily, but the process is very straightforward. Like a simple inquiry is often I ask in satsang: Who is the witness of this hand? Or who witnesses the perception of this hand? Who is it? It is you. What does that 'you' look like? What does that 'you' look like? What quality does it have? No quality. That's why it gets confusing, because that is the Atma I'm looking for, or the recognition of the qualityless 'I' we are looking for. The recognition of the qualityless 'I,' you see. Now, who is aware of the perception of this hand? The qualityless. That is what we are looking for.

I'm so confused.

I'm surprised if you're not confused, because I would be very confused. So don't worry, just be open with... don't worry. So we're coming to the recognition of the highest using the tool that has been given by the great sages. And the highest cannot be something with attributes. It cannot be something which comes and goes. It cannot be something that has boundary. It cannot be something that depends on our state, whether it is waking state, dream state, sleep state, turiya state; it remains independent of all the states. And because it's independent, it must be without gunas, without quality. And we have also been told by the sages that this Ultimate Reality, Nirguna Brahman, is our reality. Our reality. That is why the asking 'Who am I?' brings us to that recognition.

So I'm asking a simple question: Who is aware of the perception of this hand? It is you. Now that 'you,' does it have a quality? What is the quality of it? Give him the mic so I can hear him better.

So I feel that that 'I am seeing you,' that feeling is there.

That feeling is there. Who witnesses that feeling?

I mean, that also comes with the body identification.

Very good, very good. We look at this together. How do you identify as the body? Just by experiencing the sensations you identify?

No, that... something like sparsh or something automatically takes...

So try to now effortlessly identify as the body. Tell me when you succeed.

Pardon?

Identify with the body without any effort and tell me when you succeed. So remain empty, effortless, and take yourself to be this body. Did you... are the body? So remember one thing, that the truth is in this way. In this way, true insight, true recognition is empty of effort. The process of getting to true insight is full of our try, but to remain empty, to come there, to remain in that, is actually a process of being completely natural, completely effortless.

If it was not like this, then infants when they were born, they would also identify with the body, but they don't do that. I keep taking this example when I was teaching my son: 'This is head, you know, this is hand.' All these things you teach these children when they are born. So many times then I would say, 'Beta, where is your head?' Oh, yes, 'Where is your head?' He would point to my head because he did not yet have that 'me' and 'you.' He did not know that distinction between mine and other. So effortlessly, if you have remained effortless, then we are empty of identification. The sensations will be tasted, you will experience the sensation, you see, but sensations are like pictures appearing in front of you. That which witnesses the sensation is never touched by the sensation. So although you will witness the perception of body sensation, effortlessly you cannot take yourself to be the body.

Okay, so effortlessly you recognize that it is your Nirguna reality which is aware of the perception of the world, of this hand. When you start putting effort, then you say, 'I am getting mixed into it.' Actually, this is what's happening. So remember that when we are stuck in Maya, to come towards God takes effort. When we are with God, then to come back to Maya also takes effort, is it? So when the inquiry has helped us into true recognition, then the mind comes with the story, says, 'No, no, but this is the body itself,' or this is some story it'll make which takes you away from the pure insight, is it? Because we start relying again on the 'me' rather than the Atma, you see.

So when we believe our thoughts, then we are creating distance between the true teacher in our heart and ourselves, because with our thoughts we are relying on our own intelligence, our own concepts, our own knowledge, is it? But to come to God, to be with God, we have to have the innocence of a child, innocence of an infant. So when we say it is 'I' that is aware of sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, then in what way are we meeting this 'I'? Getting the question? We see that 'I am aware of all perception,' and actually there is no such thing as perception. Perception is just a word which stands for sight, sound, taste, touch, smell—all that. We can't say every time, so we say perception. So 'I am aware of perception.' This insight, do we see it? Do we smell it? Do we taste it? How, in what way do we find it is 'I'?

We come back to that. Just take them through this. We'll come to the importance of innocence. How do we know?

By itself.

And if that is 'it,' if that is an 'it,' then what is its relationship with 'I'? Because he said, 'How do we know?' say 'It knows.' When we say 'it,' it means other. It means other, isn't it? So we have to be careful. And many times we... because we've heard these things and read these things, the answer comes, you see, that it is self-effulgent, self-knowing. So we feel like all these metaphors will come, but the looking is... those are pointers. Now we are at a place where we are recognizing at a deeper place than any of the pointers also, you see.

So now we have to be completely empty and look at... we said that 'I am aware of sight, sound, taste, touch, smell, all these perceptions. It is I.' This 'I,' how do we know? Because I've asked hundreds of people, nobody has said it is somebody else who's aware. Everyone says 'I am aware.' In what way? Not like my... are not perception. Are we just thinking it is 'I'? No, not even thinking, because before you start to think, you know the answer is 'I.' You see? Who is aware of the perception of this? You know it is you. Your thought may say, 'But what is that I? I don't really know,' it may say later. But before that, you know it is you, is it? So what is the instrument of that knowledge? The instrument of this knowledge that...

Everybody has said it is somebody else who's aware. Everyone says, 'I am aware.' In what way? Not like perception. Are we just thinking it is I? No, not even thinking, because before you start to think, you know the answer is I, you see. Who is aware of the perception of this? You know it is you. Your thought may say, 'But what is that I? I don't really know.' It may say that later, but before that, you know it is you. Is it so? What is the instrument of that knowledge? The instrument of this knowledge that lemonade is here is sight, then taste. So now you know lemon water. What is the instrument of knowing that it is I that is aware?

So, two instruments that we rely on constantly are perception and thinking. But this which we are all confirming doesn't depend on perception or thinking. So what is that? Try an experiment. Start thinking about something and see if that inside still remains. You got the point? Start thinking about something like, 'What should I do after this? What is going to happen?' You see, something like that. And then what happens to that inside? It actually doesn't go anywhere, but it seems like it's gone. So that seeming is Maya. It seems like I became a body again. It seems like I have a job again. It seems like I have responsibilities again, you see. And even with one thought, it can happen like that.

Then you use the point: who is aware? Am I aware now? Nothing actually switches, but it seems like we move back; we move to a deeper place. That is because we are accessing the help, the assistance, the guidance of the Atma within. So when we are not relying on ourselves, our mind, then our Atma is guiding us. And our job is to stay with that as much as we can. If you commit to stay with it 100%, then you'll be able to do it a little bit. If you commit to stay with it when you have time, you will not do it at all, you see. Because why? Because Maya is compelling. And it's not that our intention is bad; it is because Maya is the most compelling. You know a little Hindi, so Kabir Ji said, 'Maya maha thagini.' Maha thagini is the biggest con artist. Why? Because very quickly, without realizing, you see, it has got us in its spell and we have left our true place. We have forgotten God's presence, the Atma's help, our true insight, and we have gone with wanting things in the world and taking ourselves to be this body-mind.

So my advice would be that instead of trying to become enlightened or come to self-realization, try to deepen in your love for God, because it is this Atma, which is God's presence, which will show you the truth anyway. So in your inquiry, have full humility, have full devotion; then your inquiry will seem like it is on steroids, it will be super-powered. And don't value too much—unless it makes you more devotional—don't value too much what experiences you had in the past, because that will only lead to spiritual pride which will block your deepening. So fresh: 'I'm just a beginner. I'm just a beginner. I had no experience in anything, nothing. It is all God's grace. Today what He does with me, it's all His grace. I'm just a beginner.' Always have that attitude. That purity, that innocence will really help in the process.

And why does it help? Because it's true that God reality is the immeasurable reality, apar. Whatever I have experienced of it, compared to the infinity of what it is, is only a little bit. Even when I can say that it is boundless, and yet my experience of its boundlessness is tiny. So always have that humility, that freshness. So then you won't pressurize yourself also, because one day you have a great experience in inquiry, the next day it doesn't come. Next day the mind is very active, then we start to say, 'No, no, it should happen like that, I have had it like that,' you see. No, today is fresh and we don't know what is better for us. He knows what is better for us. So sometimes He gives us Prasad very easily, sometimes we have to really go through, sometimes the temple is empty, sometimes very crowded, so we have to make our way through either way.

He had this one question: to be like as a child, as innocent as a child. Most of that is seen as weakness. One gets run over, yeah. And then what happens if you join? You're not anymore as a child if you join with the strength, for example. But if you lose that innocence, then you're also not with God anymore. Yeah, exactly. So it's a very tricky thing, where to stand actually.

No, just stand in innocence. I didn't get the trick.

And you just get run over. Yes, and exploited over and over and over like that. And if you can...

Yes, yes, because that is actually the issue. It is painful to be like that, to be that innocent in this world where actually that is considered weakness, stupidity. Yes. So to withstand this world, or you go to Kali basically.

No Kali? Yeah, exactly. Kali in the heart. Pray to Kali in the heart.

No, Kali outside. She does the Kali inside to clean us up. No, also outside.

No, no, outside you pray to Kali, then you're praying for her to clean you up. You are not doing... you are not losing your innocence. I might disagree.

So I'm saying stay with the child. Can you pray to Kali without being a child? Like pray to Kali and say, 'You know, buddy, come, come, let's be together in this'? No, you have to become like a little baby and then pray to Kali. Like praying to Kali is a big, big invitation to innocence because she's not going to take this much pride from you, this much. That's why it's Kali. You're not praying to Saraswati, you're praying to Ma Kali. It's all one God who has made it so beautiful that we can relate with Him in that way which most resonates with our heart. So say it is Kali for you, you see. Try to meet Kali with some pride and see what happens. No, don't try, just saying that. But you cannot do it because you're saying that, 'I want this demolisher of all that is evil, all that is dark, all that is separated from God's love. I'm praying to the strongest embodiment of that demolisher.' And you think that you will have your own two feet to stand on in that process? No, you will be flat on the ground while you're praying to her, if it is a true prayer.

So what is that innocence? There is something in the Bible, it is often repeated. There are not so many things which are so often repeated. There is something in the Bible which is often repeated, which is that Jesus told us very clearly that only the children will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. And he said 'only.' He didn't say 'mostly.'

But I know I'm going to the personal, but it's an issue because it is an issue.

Issue. I'm not at all saying it's not an issue. Because am I like that child? I'm not. It's an issue because I still have too much 'I' in me. Am I like that infant? No, I'm not. I'm working on him. I'm working on him. Is anyone of us like that child? No, we are not. I'm working on it. And we cannot do it by ourselves, but we have to try and pray for His grace.

But it's almost, I mean from the experience that I keep receiving, yes, it's almost always the same issue. I go completely open and like loving, it's that feeling of peace and God, and the next moment run over. So it's like it would teach me, 'Don't be like that, don't be like that.' Yes, like closing again, again.

Yes, because that is the design of Maya. And that Maya is not going to say, 'Well done, you know, deepen more, become more innocent.' She's going to say, 'You're going to be exploited. Your children are taking you for granted. The world will spit on your face. You have the most thankless job. You're wasting your time. Nobody's getting anything.' I'm saying for myself, that's how the mind can attack, you see. So, and in spite of all of that which seems so true at times, to just remain in innocence and say, 'You guide me, You move me.' That is innocence.

So one tip I have for you is that I feel like there are two compartments in your mind. One is how to be that innocent child and one is how to be like the power with your sorrow, you see. Now, what is the innocence that I'm talking about? I'm talking about the innocence which is empty of the 'me' and doesn't know what to do, does not have an image of what that looks like, does not have that image that 'I'm loving and giving.' It doesn't have any of that in it. It is just waiting to be moved by God. Do you wait to be guided by God?

Kind of when that state is happening, yes. Boom. Yes, exactly. But the issue is here. Okay, it's kind of a very familiar thing, but the issue is when you go so many times, so many times open, empty, over again, over again. Yeah, at one point it's like almost like you twist on the other side because you've done it, you tried it so many times and it failed so many times. And at one point it's like, 'No, no more,' because it's too broken. Yes. And then it's gone, innocence. But again, over and over.

So I have no dispute with anything you've said so far. I'm only here to invite you. If you feel like you've now decided to rely on your own strengths because you're hurt so often, I'm here to invite you in again. Because I promise you that one moment with the Atma, with the Beloved in your heart, is much more bursting than a lifetime or many lifetimes of not being hurt ever. Without this, what do we have in our life? What will you do with all your power and not being hurt? This is zombie life. It's tough. I'm not at all undermining your experience and I'm sure you've been through a lot. I'm not undermining that at all. All I'm saying is that this is the way of this world, that Maya tries to again and again scare us out of our innocence into an egotism, and we have to keep returning back into it. It's not easy. That's why I'm not at all saying it is easy.

Because now I also... it's not, I mean, it's partial. I know kind of that this is the design basically, but it's also kind of an issue. I just had something in a way because I've been hurt and I know it works like this. I'm familiar with it. But somehow it's like I'm even like when I'm here, yes, but I'm even considering that I'm not coming anymore. And I know that that is the part of the mind and it just plays over and over. And mostly by grace and God, 90% I'm like, I just quiet, nothing, it's working. But sometimes it's not and it's like prevailing. It's really prevailing, especially because of this recent thing. And yeah, starting prevailing and it's exactly that what I was so afraid of. I was really fighting. I was so happy that it doesn't prevail because I know it once it starts, it just starts getting like small steps and then it starts becoming like... and I smelled it a long time ago and I said, 'I'll fight, I'll stay, I'll stay.' But it's just... and now it starts prevailing and it's prevailing over everything.

That is the nature. That's why Kabir Ji did not say Maya is a small fry. He said she's a maha thagini, a big con artist. What to pray over and just see how... I don't know. Here, I'm not going to be like anyone here who's not considered leaving. Everyone considers leaving. Maybe what happens, those moments of irritation do come. Sometimes they're not moments, they could be years. Some of my children have left for years and then come back after many years. Some have left and never come back. And I'm not at all saying that you're making a mistake by leaving. I don't know. But I never consider it could be that you find a much better guidance, what is resonating with you deeply. It's completely fine. It's completely fine. So I'm not at all saying that... I actually I feel like if you didn't have satsang, then this is a good satsang to come to, but there could be so many better teachers in the world than me. There's no reason really to come here if you found a better teacher. But if you're not going to be in satsang, then it's good you come.

That I never... I know this is the mind because I call this evil and I know it. So as long as like I stand on this, but inside I already feel that it is already... it's pulling, pulling. And I never before considered something like this because I know what it is. But it's pulling now so strongly up and down and everywhere. And yeah, going...

I have the same problem. Then you may not believe that I have the same problem. I have the same...

Better teacher, but if you're not going to be in Sat, then it's good you come. That's that. I never... I know this is the mind because I call this evil and I know it. So as long as, like, I stand on this, but inside I already feel that it is already... it's pulling, pulling. And I never before considered something like this because I know what it is, but it's pulling now so strongly up and down and everywhere. And yeah, going...

I have the same problem. Then you may not believe that I have the same problem. I have the same problem, no? It just takes a different complexion, that's all. The challenge changes in front of you, that's all. Am I living in God's will? No, I'm not. I don't feel like... if every day I have ten moments or twenty moments where I just go with what I want without waiting for God, can I call that living in God's will? No. So I have a long way to go, and many times the project does seem so difficult.

So satsang is not really about this room. It is about that very innocence that we are talking about. To be innocently helped by God no matter what is happening in the world. Is that innocence not trying to do it better? I am that 'I' that is trying to do it better. So to notice the temptation of the mind which says, 'Be unkind, be harsh.' There's a 'you' there, there's a 'me' here. All these temptations come from the mind and many times, like you're saying, they seem so true.

For example, if a child that I've nourished with all my heart for ten years suddenly he says, 'Oh, but I don't like you. You're terrible. You're the worst. I wasted ten years of my life.' You see, then the mind uses that opportunity even here to say, 'That's really ungrateful. That's really unfair. How good you were.' It plays that. And I try to stay with God and innocent and trust and pray for that one and to love that one with all my might. But do I succeed every time? I don't. Do I succeed sometimes? I do. Are those 'sometimes' increasing very slowly? Yes, they are. Do I pick separation over love one time in a hundred? Yes, I do.

That's why I said I'm not a Swami. I'm not a... not really a Guru or anything. I'm just a foolish servant of God, reminding myself of Him, reading the words of the sages, immersing myself in my discipleship. So my number one job in life is discipleship of the Atma. Secondarily, it is to share what He is guiding me to. Am I good at my job? Not really. I'm trying. Yeah.

All the truth that we will ever understand will be only from the Atma within. Not one line of spirituality, not one alphabet of spirituality can be understood by ourself without the Spirit. It is called spirituality because it is taught by the Spirit. So to come to satsang, to come to a teacher, means that we are coming, trying to come into the presence of that Atma through another instrument in front of us because our own relationship is not so strong yet. But coming into the discipleship of an outer Guru is to come in with that hope that what he is sharing with me is coming unfiltered from the Atma within. Otherwise, there's no point. We're not doing spiritual performances, you see. It's not about, 'Oh, he knows the scripture so well' or 'He knows the Sanskrit so well' or 'He knows...' We come into satsang because we want to get a taste of what the Atma's guidance is for us.

And that is why my job is to be naked, is to be empty as much as possible to allow Him to speak from my heart, God to speak from this. Does it always happen like that? It doesn't always happen like that. But is there a full-hearted effort? Is there a full-hearted bowing down to make it about Him and not about me? I feel, if not full, at least a mostly full-hearted effort. And that's all that anyone can do.

So just like you, you can have a resentment. I can have a resentment and say, 'But I did this and I did that. I did not get anything in return. I, I, I...' like that. So I don't want her to come to satsang anymore. If you fall into that, like she called evil, then it can also be like that. That I get taken for granted. I, I, I... this. From tomorrow, she cannot come. So do I notice that that is what Maya wants to do? I notice that. But has God given me by His grace, most of the time, to stay with love and not resentment, not grievance? At least it seems that... it could be a blind spot, I don't really know.

So this is the challenge of everybody's lives and this is a lifelong project. The more we remain in Atma Gyan, the more deepening we will have. But ultimately, it is always going to be Achintya Bheda Abheda. Abheda is recognizing that I am not distinct, but the Bheda, still the tiny mosquito of Bheda still plays for everyone. The tinier that mosquito becomes, their photos come on the walls. Did any of them say it is completely gone? Nobody. And if they said it, they would be lying because only the Avatars can say that. God can say that. Only God Himself is perfect, all-human. And that is the Bheda.

So you recognize the Abheda: 'I am That.' But in that which I still consider myself to be somewhere, in spite of that recognition, can that give life? Can that create something out of nothing? So God will still be God, and yet I see that I am That. That is why that Achintya part, that it is unfathomable. You cannot think about how that Bheda and Abheda works. It's almost like Zen, like a Zen koan. We can't solve it here. It has to solve somewhere deeper and give you insight.

So I haven't met anyone, and my feeling would be that they would not be truthful if they were to say that they are completely pristine and there's nothing that they need to work on. So this life is full Oneness with God and full, full attempt to be in servitude to God. So inside, love and servitude all has to work together to make it a true spiritual life. Is it going to be difficult? Do we get hurt? We do get hurt. I get hurt almost every day by something, one child or the other child. Almost every day. There's rarely a day that goes by.

Also, there's this idea that those who've come to some apparent freedom, they don't have any sensitivity left in them. Zombies. They went from one zombie life to another zombie life. It's not like that. There can be a deep sensitivity. But does that stop me from blessing this child? Very rarely. Very, very rarely. From loving this child? Almost never. I hope I'm being true when I'm saying that. Yes.

And I see that the boy who started sharing satsang twelve years ago was very immature compared to this one. And I hope that this boy is going to be very immature compared to the one twelve years later, if there is such a one. Because if this deepening was to stop, if this love was not to become greater every day, then I don't feel like there's any point in living. So I hope that at sixty-two, this man says that how I was at fifty was obnoxiously stupid, just like I can say about that boy who started sharing satsang at thirty-six or thirty-seven. And yet, was that boy's insight about the highest reality true? By God and Guru's grace, it was true. It was true. Nothing to do with his greatness, all by God's grace. And yet, in spite of the truest insight, was there a lot of immaturity and foolishness? There was. Could I see it fully then? No, I couldn't. Can I see it fully now? I can't. Probably the one who looks at it later will say, 'Look at you, how you were.' So finality of insight with the deepening of love cannot take out one from the other.

Father, today through Ma's example, you talked about... literally, that's a giveaway, Mukti for the Darshan of Ram. And Father, at one point when Tulsidas Ji is describing Ram's marriage, so yeah, he's saying somewhere that Brahma is so lucky that he has eight eyes to see this and so on, and so Indra has thousands of eyes, Kartik has twelve eyes for the Darshan. So he's all talking about Darshan of Ram Ji. And at some point of time, he also said that the Naam comes before the Roop, and Ram comes before Ram Himself. Then he's talking about the name of Ram more than the Darshan of Ram. And at some point, Father, just now even that Moh, right? Gyan and... so for me, there was always a mission, always a mission for spiritual, that get Mukti, right? Ultimate. But you said at one point today, it was so evident that okay, I should be having my mission as Darshan, right? So it's like Darshan of... so again, the mission is still there, Father. So let me not trouble you more.

I started maybe somewhere and said that in reality there is no distinction between Atma Gyan and Atma Darshan. There's no difference. You cannot come to the Darshan of the Atma without having the knowledge of the Atma—knowledge being capital K, not conceptual knowledge. So Atma Gyan and Atma Darshan is the same. So whether we call this Atma Gyan Kendra or Atma Darshan Kendra, it would be the same thing. Is it? So that is true.

Now, in the process of the discipleship of this Atma within, we fall in love with an aspect of God. So deeply in love with Ram or Krishna or Jesus or any of the great prophets or the word Allah, whichever that aspect may be. You fall very deeply in love with that aspect. Maybe that... and then it just feels like it's not emotion, but it's like an amplified emotion. It's like an amplified spiritual heart. It says, 'Without my Beloved, I don't want anything. I don't want anything.' But the Beloved is such that, do you feel like He'll leave us without everything? So you can't game the system. You can't say, 'You see, like that.' But you know who the Beloved is. So if we have Him, His Darshan, His ability to be with Him, you feel like He'll let us be ignorant, full of avidya? So just allow yourself to become silly. Is it? Becoming silly becomes the mission, huh? Becoming silly becomes the mission. So is that wrong?

For where... where it is getting stuck, that is why innocence is such a difficult project. We are naturally in a state of, like, you know, being with God and then that... you feel it right now, like, you know, that's how it is. But then, you know, to deal with the outer world, that, you know, we have created this projected image about ourself which makes it difficult to get back to that innocence. And most of the time, like, you know, you're fighting... is that projected image of what you have created only? Yeah, most of the time, like 99% of the time, it's only you versus you which Maya plays. And I think if you can beat that, you feel more closer to God, like maybe more 99%, like, you know. But it's like easier to... as I've been coming to satsang, it's getting easier to see that, be aware of it. And yeah, thanks for... like, I have no idea what do you mean by Mukti? What do you mean by Moh? His project, lifetime project, mission. Missionless mission.

Yeah, mission. Yes. But you can only do missionless anchored in love. If you try to be missionless for a day, even that we can't do unless we are anchored in love. So is the idea to be open and empty all the time? Yes. Can we do it unanchored? Mostly no, from whatever I've seen in my life and in the lives of my children. Nothing is getting better. The minute you want things to get better, the mind uses that effect of getting better. Easier? Yes.

One thing I'm clear about is that I don't want to be a proponent of a self-serving spirituality. It has to be a self-sacrificing spirituality. Less suffering, but humility as well. But that's why, because I love them. But it's so... and again, again, we must not expect the spiritual path to be easy. That is all wrong spiritual marketing in today's world. 'You come and do this and your life will become easy. Come and do that, your life will become easy.' None of the great sages have said, 'Oh, my life was so easy and I found God.' It's just a modern New Age make-believe spirituality. No risk. Our life is not... our head is not on the line. We just made a deal, signed up for some course, paid some money and said, 'Okay, we will do this and that and our life will become easy.' That's not spirituality. Yeah, it won't be easy. And the more you want to understand, the more difficult it will be. If you want to understand innocence, it is no longer innocence.

Are you calling it effort? And in a way you describe it as giving up and...

Giving up. It's just not easy, upasana. It's just not easy to fit God here. Try and squeeze... He just doesn't fit because it's not easy to fit God into this universe also. The universe is a tiny grain of sand in front of God. So if He doesn't fit into the universe itself, He'll never fit into our intellect. And as long as that attempt is there to make sense of it, it is not going to be easy. We surrender. We surrender. Everything is yours, God.

Are you calling it effort? In a way, you describe it as giving up. Giving up is just not easy. It's just not easy to fit God here and squeeze. It just doesn't fit because it's not easy to fit God into this universe also. The universe is a tiny grain of sand in front of God. So if it doesn't fit into the universe itself, it will never fit into our intellect. As long as that attempt is there to make sense of it, it is not going to be easy. We surrender. We surrender. 'Everything is yours, God.' But we surrender with one eye open. 'I surrendered, now see what happened to me. Every time I surrender, I get slapped.' Then if you surrendered, then who is getting slapped by whom? You have surrendered. So if that tracking is still there, what if you surrender? It's not a deal-making that, 'Oh, I surrender, my life will be easy.' That would be a great deal; everybody would make it.

True surrender—whatever state keeps you, stay in that state. Who can stay? This effort to surrender also... I should surrender. If you can surrender everything, but the checker guy doesn't leave us that easily. He's my arch-nemesis. For ever since I started sharing satsang, that, 'Okay, I did this, now see what is happening to me.' I gave everything to God except the checker. This happens to me. And the checker builds an experiencer out of us again. It makes the doer out of us again. So we surrendered the karta and the bhokta, but because of this checking, checking, the bhokta comes back and the karta comes back. The doer and the experiencer seem to come back. So till we don't truly get over ourselves, it is not a surrender; it is an attempt at surrender, which is difficult. What is to get over the ego? To get over ourselves. You see, 'I got over myself and see what happened to me.' Who can make that report? 'I got over myself and then see what happened to me.' And what did we get over? Stop saying these things.

Yes, because everybody loves... let's take this. The Ananda of God is like one has to be somebody who has not slept for a week in spite of trying, and then they get two hours of sleep. Did they taste anything? No, they just slept. Was it the most blissful two hours of their life? It was, without any taste. So that's Brahmananda. What is Brahmananda? Without any quality, and yet it is Ananda. Then God in His grace gives us, in His presence, He gives us love, peace, joy—Bhajananda. Because we are devoted to Him, He gives us Brahmananda. So most of us, hopefully, are confused about that. But many times in the outpouring of God's presence, in the coming to satsang, in the coming to inquiry, whichever way, the outpouring is so much that there's even a worldly Ananda, like you ate a sweet—like your mouth is sweet without eating a sweet. That kind of Ananda we get. And if you have that, then you have to be very careful. You have to be very careful because the mind will use that as the benchmark for your spirituality. So you focus on Brahmananda; don't worry about the objective one.

One kind of effort, which is all you effort, it's anchored in love. Would it be the right one? When it is, we'll see. Let's not speculate.

Okay, a seeker sent the quote. She says she is quoting Jesus from Matthew 18:3, and he said, 'Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven.' He's probably just exaggerating. Can't be serious. Yeah, 'you will never.' It's quite clear about it.

Yeah, these last few days have been very powerful. I just wanted to share because it's very different. So a lot of what I'm experiencing actually is just coming from sensations. It's not so much, you know, any practice, but it's the first time it's all like I'm feeling all these sensations. So when I'm in satsang or let's say when I'm at home and, you know, I have a photograph of Bhagavan, right? So if I'm just sitting in silence and just looking at it, doing nothing, just looking at it, or in satsang or listening to a scripture, so there's this message coming which is through the sensations—that the body is unreliable. Meaning like the sensations of the body seem to morph and they're quite intense. Like there's a lot of... sometimes it feels joyous, sometimes it feels painful, sometimes it feels like the fire burning. But the bottom line is that because each frame of experiencing that is different, that's not reliable. It's like, you know, but obviously the light is reliable; it's always there and beautiful.

So then I've just now started to say that, you know, I was not able to for many years—I mean, I've been coming for four years—I was not able to fully synthesize that the body isn't, you know, it's not real. It's like a creation within Consciousness. I never accepted that. But now I'm starting to sort of just say, 'Look, it's changing.' I mean, all these sensations are changing all the time, so it's got to be an appearance. So this is what's going on, Father. So that's kind of my thing, is just trying to sit there. And I'm also saying if the body is an appearance, then and there's only Consciousness, then the observer is also only the reality, right? So it's like this, you know, there's no... it's almost like you negate the sensations of the body and then it's only Consciousness sitting with itself. And that's sort of... I just wanted to report it because it's very... I don't want to do anything, I don't feel like going anywhere, because it's just so in it. You know what I mean? It's all the sensations all the time.

But I just thought I would report it because I'm now actually truly accepting in my heart that the body is just... you know, I never really understood what they meant by the rope and the snake, but I'm really starting to understand. If it's only a changeful sensation, then why do we give it all that much importance, right? And then everything depends on that only, right? The person and the body are just person, body, world—everything is just all... the first link of the chain is the body. But if you imagine it's not there, just not there, then there's only light. That's... I'm trying to sit with this. I thought I'd share it because it's sort of what I'm going through. Which is... I mean, I'm sorry for some of my things, but the reason I was sort of trying to bring up all this stuff was also because for me it's just becoming just sitting with this internal set of sensations and trying to come to some anchor, you know, some...

It's very good. Yeah, very, very good. And I can certainly testify, certainly testify in the same way as well, that then we don't find an anchor to identify with the body-mind. Then for a long time—it may not happen like this for everyone—but here also I just wanted to remain and keep deepening in this. Nothing from the outside seems so attractive or inspirational, motivational. It's a very natural process of letting go of false identity. Good. One question that really I feel is important is to just check: am I contained, is my being contained within the sensations that I call the body, or are these sensations contained within my being? Then the truer relationship becomes apparent to us. Who contains who? The world believes that the body contains us, but actually we contain the world. We can already testify to that as an experience. We may not yet be able to testify to that as a fact, but as an experience, everybody has to admit. Like if I say, 'Where do you experience this world?' you will say, 'Inside me.' Nobody can say, 'I experience the world outside me.' Our experience of the world is always within ourselves. So in that way, it's no different. Waking state is no different from the dream state. But during the event, while the dream is on, it's difficult to say it as a fact. But it will come as you deepen in the true light.

I feel I'm loving some effort. Any... this becomes... I'm tomorrow doing it with the intention of asking this question.

Yeah, it's... what intention can there be if there's love? Can there be the intention to act through me? Yeah, that you can follow. Can I just read some words that I read this morning? And they happen to be on the same topic. So these words are from the autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux. So she said, 'I feel that my mission is about to begin. My mission is to make God loved as I love Him, to teach souls my little way.' So she's famous for... she's called the Little Flower because she was in the monastery from fifteen to twenty-four, and at twenty-four she left the body. Tuberculosis was really strong in the late 1890s, early 1900s, something like that. So what she was clear about her mission in life is to... she saw that maybe in this world we don't really know how to love God. So she says that, 'I'm going to teach them my little way,' which will show everyone how to love God. Beautiful intention of a young child.

So when her sister, Mother Agnes of Jesus, asked her, 'And what is this little way you want to teach to souls?' Therese answered, 'It is the way of spiritual childhood. It is the way of spiritual childhood, the way of trust and absolute surrender.' Also reminds me of Anandamayi Ma very deeply. Throughout her life, she said, 'Just a little child, I don't know any of these big things.' Also Mirabai, at a very young age, she felt like she's married to Krishna, and in that innocence, she continued all her life in her heart, married to Krishna. Nobody else, just God. Did she have an easy life? Very tough. Very, very tough, to the extent of being poisoned. Saint Teresa of Avila, she died, and I heard from all of you that apparently she was dead for four days. She was about to be cremated, and very innocently she says in her book that, 'By His grace I came back and I opened my eyes, and I noticed that I must have been gone a while because they put wax to close my eyes. So when I opened them, I could see the wax.'

So this innocence, this childlike humility and innocence, and most importantly, it's the same as what Guru Nanak told us. Because what is the specialty of a child? That they are just willing to hold the father's hand and be led by them wherever he takes them. So God, our Father in our heart, our Beloved in our heart, is also here to guide us every moment. The Atma is the Satguru. The Holy Spirit is the Satguru. So my right and wrong, my way, my good and bad, my want or not want—all that has to be kept aside for us to follow His way. Because His ways are Dharma. We don't need to think much about what Dharma is, because if you think, we can never resolve it. You see, people have been trying to resolve ethics for centuries; made no progress. Sometimes they become categorically imperative, sometimes they become utilitarian. It doesn't really help. So Dharma is to follow God's will. What is God's will? We have to meet Him to find out.

Now the beauty of it is that if you have turned inwards, if you have become antarmukhi, then we are following His will by remaining antarmukhi, even if we can or cannot testify to His presence being there. So you don't have to wait for Atma Gyan to follow God's will. You see, now the light is not working yet, you see, or eyes are adjusting. We can't yet see the garbhagriha; it is very dark. So eyes are adjusting to seeing Him. Doesn't mean He is not there. So He's here with us. If you remain inward-facing, then His will will become apparent to us. But we need to be patient and we need to just have courage. Our mind will scream at us, the world will scream at us, but you have to remain inward-facing. That's why the sages have told us, 'Antarmukhi sada sukhi'—the one who is inward-facing is always at peace.

So she said, 'It is the way of spiritual childhood, the way of trust and absolute surrender.' Then imagine this child; she left the body at twenty-four, but many popes have spoken about her. Even Pope Pius XI said, 'We earnestly desire that all the faithful should study her in order to copy her. Study her in order to copy her, becoming children themselves, since otherwise they cannot, according to the words of the Master, arrive at the Kingdom of Heaven.' Who is the Master? Jesus himself in this case. So they're saying that just like the imitation actually means the emulation, we read the lives of the sages so we can emulate them.

This child, she left the body at twenty-four, but many popes have spoken about her. Even Pope Pius XI said, 'We earnestly desire that all the faithful should study her in order to copy her—study her in order to copy her—becoming children themselves, since otherwise they cannot, according to the words of the Master, arrive at the Kingdom of Heaven.' Who is the Master? Jesus himself in this case. So they're saying that just like the imitation actually means the emulation, we read the lives of the sages so we can emulate the lives of the sages. So these are very inspirational things to read because they teach us that if it's possible for a young child like that, it is possible for us as well. It is difficult, and she shares all her difficulties as well.

So the Pope was making the reference here to Jesus regarding his teaching on spiritual childhood. So Jesus said, 'Amen, I say to you, unless you be converted and become as little children, you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.' You must transform yourself into the innocence of a child. Without that, we cannot enter the true... what is the Kingdom of Heaven? His presence. Wherever His presence is, that is heaven. Wherever the Atma lives is heaven. Whether we call it Ri or Swarg or Heaven, it doesn't matter. To be in God's presence is to be in heaven. To be hypnotized by Maya, to be caught up in egotism, is to be in hell. That's a simple way. Separation is hell; love of God is heaven.

So then he also said, 'Whoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child will be the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.' And elsewhere he said, 'Allow the little ones to come to me and forbid them not, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven.' So he loved little children and he said, 'Allow them to come to me' because for those, for such is the Kingdom of Heaven. Then he said, 'Amen, I say to you, whosoever shall not receive the Kingdom of Heaven as a little child shall never enter into it.' So it doesn't mean that once you've grown up then you can't ever meet God. It just means that we must return to that innocence.

What is the most important aspect of innocence? Follow the Father's will. That is a child. You don't have to—I mean, unless it happens naturally—you don't have to throw tantrums like children. You don't have to become like outwardly like that. It means if it happens naturally, it's very sweet, but it really means to not know for yourself but to trust God in everything, which is the opposite of the world today, which is: we must know more, we must do more, we must take power for ourselves. To return to innocence is to be empty of all of that and allow God to move us, to guide us.

Also in the Old Testament it is said, 'Whosoever is a little one, let him come to me.' This is Proverbs 9:4. And also, 'For to him that is little, mercy will be shown.' So this next one is, 'The Lord is the keeper of the little ones.' So one of the Popes said, 'When a teacher adopts various methods to inculcate the same lesson, does he not thereby seek to emphasize its value in his sight?' Simply put, that if the teacher is emphasizing that point over and over and over, it must convey how valuable that point is for him. And if the teacher is the Son of God himself, then we must listen, and he's emphasized this point so often.

So then the Pope says, 'If Jesus Christ used to use so many devices to drive home this lesson to his disciples, it is because he wishes by one means or another to ensure their thorough understanding of it. From this we must conclude that it was the Divine Master's expressed desire that his disciples should see that the way of spiritual childhood is the path which leads to eternal life.' This is from Pope Benedict. Beautiful.

Somebody at the office asked me today because in front of me I have a picture of Hanuman Ji and Sita Ma. So he had this expression on his face saying, 'You know, what is happening? How can you be so...' I just told him, 'But I follow all religions.' So he said, 'How can anyone follow all religions?' So I said that if we were in different states of India, as we seem to be, and in Canada, Bhagavan was called something else, in Tamil he was called something else, in Telugu he was called something else, in Malayalam he was called something else, and everybody in their own devotion, in their own love, found different ways to get to Him.

And then when these people started meeting—because the worlds, the continents, were very far apart earlier, you see, so it was difficult to spread—but suppose that then these state people were all in their different, different states and suddenly then transportation came and they started meeting and then they started fighting. 'You say Bhagavan, I say this, I say that,' you see? Then we would call that stupid, isn't it? Because they're all praying to the same one. Is it? So this is the problem of the human condition, that we've invented all this separation. But all true religions at the heart of it is the realization of the presence of God. One calls it Atma, one calls it Holy Spirit. So if that one who's sitting with the Holy Spirit, is that one different from the one who's sitting with the Atma? So we say, 'No, no, that your way is wrong, my way is right.' This, because of the language 'Holy Spirit' and 'Atma', this is sheer stupidity.

And a very beautiful thing happened this week, yesterday or the day before, where the Pope said that all religions are the pathways to God, you see? Which is very rare for the Catholic Church to say so. And he's been facing so much flack from the Catholics. They're just like, 'He's denying Jesus, Jesus is the only way,' and all of that. So I'm so glad that somebody in his position can openly say that finally. It is so important for us to recognize that God blesses everyone equally with the opportunity to find Him. Everyone has the opportunity to find Him. It doesn't matter which family you were born in, which religion you were born in, you see? And we must get over these small, small things. In India also, we are spreading all this nonsense too much.

So if you call it God, or you call it Bhagavan, or you call it Allah, you call Him any of these things, or Her any of these things—you call Her Devi Ma—are we going to kill each other for what words we're using to call God? That's really stupid. And most of us are just so busy being proud that we don't actually find time to pray. So that's why to return to the innocence of a child, it's very beautiful.

One man said in my work group that because I had put that photo of Grace, that one, I put this as my profile photo. So then this man said to me, 'Oh Ananta, you Christian?' I said, 'Also. And Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Sikh, Sufi, everything.' So then he said, 'Okay, okay, I'm glad.' So that's like... he mentioned one sage which I won't mention because he's so beyond me that we should not mention in the same sentence. So then he said, 'I'm so glad you're not a Christian because these Christians are everywhere, everywhere. There are meetings happening everywhere you turn, they're converting people.' So I said, 'Where? I haven't seen any of them. Where are the meetings happening everywhere?'

So there's too much fear, there's too much prejudice in society, and because of power, people have used these things to divide brother from brother, sister from sister. Whichever pathway leads us to God, leads us to truth, is a holy pathway. So I'm never going to leave Ram Ji. Stuck with Him for life, He's stuck with me for life. But does that mean that I cannot bow down to Jesus Ji and Allah Ji? Every sweet name of God. There is no chance, nothing can keep me away from every sweet expression of God I want to use.

How those of us who are parents, how many names we have for our kids, or our parents call us with so many names. One will be the official name, but at home, this also, this also, this. Now suppose somebody comes and says, 'No, you can't use that name.' It's my prerogative, it's my right. My love entitles me to call God in every way that I want to. To use a microscope to figure out... when we are suspicious in our minds, then we find trouble everywhere. So those who are looking for trouble will find trouble. So because you are innocent, you're not finding any trouble.

This is the state photo of Minnesota or something for the photograph, but it was meant to be the Bible, correct? So but the message is very beautiful. The message is just that this man has his daily bread, his bowl of soup, and his word of God, and that's all he needs to be happy. He's grateful in spite of just that. And all of us have at least this much. All of us have. So we can learn. It is a reminder for myself to be grateful because every day I have this. There's not been one day in my life, by God's grace, that I did not receive my roti. So am I grateful enough for that? I haven't been grateful. So that's why I felt this photo is a beautiful reminder of just gratitude. We can always find things to be upset about, but so much to be grateful for.

So she said then, 'Then in the excess of my delirious joy, I cried out: Oh Jesus, my love, my vocation! At last I have found it. My vocation is love! Yes, I have found my place in the church, and it is you, oh my God, who has given me this place. In the heart of my church, my mother, I shall be love. Thus I shall be everything, and thus my dream will be realized.' So she realized at such a young age that her job is love, to love. Let me hear from Stephanie because I haven't heard from her in a long time.

Oh, thank you, Father. Welcome. I often think what I have to say is not so unimportant, but there's so much pain here. Yeah, sometimes I see, especially now in my family, and something says to me, 'Ah, it's self-pity now.' And I heard, 'No, don't go this way again,' because I come from a very Christian family. My father is like in the fourth generation, was a preacher. Yeah, very intense one. And in my family, I have seven... we are seven siblings. And in my family, I cannot... with my brothers and sisters, I'm not allowed to talk about God. Ah, I see.

And now the youngest brother is the most innocent for me. He's like a sage. He's... you can say he's very, very sick. He will die soon. And he's the most innocent. From his very childhood, he has... how was it called? When you have cramps in the head? Epileptic. And he also has things you cannot imagine what happened to him. He was in psychiatry because he shouldn't have a girlfriend; his girlfriend was taken away from him by my parents and all these things. And he's so innocent and always loving. And he jumped out of the fifth floor and has scratched feet and all this, but he took this. And he is very, one can say, simple-minded, and he's so sweet.

And now he got a collapse and went into a coma since some time. But he came out of it. We thought it's the end now because things in his body are not working and he can't move, he can't eat anymore, he can't mostly can't speak because he got something here because of some stroke also. He's now sixty years old and it's all... I feel so much grace. He is very calm with it. And he loves to eat and had a very simple life because he can't really move his hand also from this stroke he got. And now it's in this state, and I see him like a sage. Everything is taken away. He can't eat, can't meet his friends, he can't walk. He's only lying since months. He can't move to one side or other, can't sit, nothing, nothing. And he brings the whole family together because my parents don't live anymore.

And it's... I have one elder sister, she's very, very religious in a way of Rudolf Steiner, so hard. When I only mention to bless someone, she's shouting like, 'Don't use words like this!' And so I was always with Jesus, praying to Him to take this. And I get always direct answer because I can only surrender everything in grace and hope, being held. But now we got the message he got a special hospital for special treatment and it was like, 'Oh, maybe now,' but it's increasing the problems. Also my oldest brother—I'm in the middle, the fourth—like heart chakra...

It is hard when I only mention to bless someone, she's shouting like, 'Don't use words like this.' And so I was always with Jesus, praying to him to take this. And I get always a direct answer because I can only surrender everything in grace and hope, being held. But now we got the message he got a special hospital for special treatment and it was like, 'Oh, maybe now.' But it's increasing the problems. Also my oldest brother—I'm in the middle, the fourth, like the heart chakra, three elder, three younger—and the eldest ones, they are always like telling how things should be. Not to visit him too often so that he doesn't get used to it. He's in another town and only once in a while someone can come. I have the freest time because God gave me all the time to be there, and I wasn't allowed to go because it would like spoil him, all the things. And I pray and I get the answer: 'Come down. If he's in God's hand, why are you so angry?' Yeah, about this treatment from my sisters and my brother holding me back. But somehow now, the good thing is it freed me really to pray and to feel God's presence so much. And also his state—he's not... he's peaceful in it somehow. Sometimes he's very angry that people treat him like a child. He has a very simple way of talking and he looks like some madman. And yeah, I was so angry with my sister and my eldest brother to give this. I wanted to leave it here and also ask for blessings that he can... he's always transitioning somehow. It must be like that, otherwise you get crazy. No one I know has such restrictions and still looks like, 'Okay, it's like that.' So we will not come into a state where he can... he's going, he's becoming weaker and weaker. And I feel at peace with it because Jesus is saying it's all in God's hand. And I also saw a rainbow when I went back from him, and I know it will not be a bad end into another without a body. I'm angry, very angry with my brothers and sisters that I can't speak out, even when I'm the only one who's emotional. There's so much 'don't tell what you feel' in my family. It's coming, of course, from this, and I understand everything.

Full blessings to him and to all of you. It's very difficult in families, in all families, but especially when these situations come. May God's grace bless you all and, in some way, this situation bring you all closer together and not drive you apart. May your love grow and deepen. May He bless you all to come deeper into His love and light.

Thank you. Thank you so much. And I also want to mention the beautiful part. I have very beautiful siblings also which feel me. They don't say anything, right, we are very much together. But these attacks, they are very, very painful from the others. So I'm grateful also that I can feel God so direct, that He has so much blessings. Thank you.

Bless you. Bless you so much. Okay, where is Chanda?

I'm here, Father. Thank you. I'm here.

How come I... ah, there you are. Okay, very good.

Thank you so much for calling me. Did you change something? My haircut, I see. I see. Okay, good, good. Thank you so much, Father. I'm so sorry, but it's just been very difficult. I've been going through a very difficult time, so I've been crying a lot and weeping a lot. I don't know, maybe it's the 'checker guy.' So the checker guy comes a lot. I'm trying to stay with God, Father. I think I'm also perhaps trying to be more effortful, or you know, just that I feel I get up in the morning, I talk to my Shiva, I write my diary, and that's nice. It's peaceful because it's the Lord and me. And I'm just trying too hard, Father, to be with God, so I'm getting pulled around everywhere. And then when I hear the word 'it's difficult' or 'it's a struggle,' then something pokes you really badly. And it doesn't want to hear that it's difficult, doesn't want to hear it's a struggle. It's like, 'Okay, you know what? If the struggle comes, I'll deal with it.' Yeah, but it is getting poked very, very badly, and I surrender that at your feet.

So to hear that it is a struggle is poking because the resistance is with what is. What is the message of the resistance? Is it that 'I suffered enough, I have struggled enough, I don't need more of it'? Or what is it? Is it just like an anger that comes, that says 'I don't want it to be difficult'? Or is there a strong fear about it saying 'I'm scared of facing that difficulty'?

Somehow, Father, it feels as if... see, now I understand what she's getting irritated because I'm laughing. She's saying that I'm happy and peaceful and he's saying it must be a struggle, so I must be doing something wrong then. Is it like that? That I'm on the wrong track because I'm not seeing so much of a struggle, so I'm not trying hard enough or I'm doing something wrong? So either I'm not understanding, Father—can you hear me, Father? Yes. So either I'm not understanding, Father, or I'm doing something wrong, or I'm not trying hard enough, or I'm failing. I see. So that's where it keeps...

Ah, these are good things to look at. These are good things to look at. So if there's a fear that you're falling behind or failing or something you're doing wrong, then we can really look at those things. And I'm glad, in a way, that these things are showing up because if something is showing up, that means it's still festering somewhere inside. And grace always provides opportunities for it to come out in the light. And only after it comes out in the light can it be looked at, can it be let go of. But really, the intention behind my saying that it's difficult or it's not going to be easy is not to bring you into a state of unease, but to not allow the mind to use the fear of it being difficult to take you away from the path. So if you take it as a given that difficulty will come, then when the mind says, 'But this is getting too difficult, I'm not cut out for this, I can't really let go,' then we know already that it is not meant to be easy. But really, the intention is not that you're sitting peacefully and at ease in God's presence and you're feeling that because Ananta is saying that it is not going to be easy, it's going to be difficult, then to question our spirituality, to question our being in God's presence. It's not... that is not the intention at all.

In fact, upon knowing that the path is very difficult, we must be more grateful for the times of ease that we have. Say, 'Okay, it's so difficult. All my brothers and sisters seem to be going through so much difficulty, and I have gone through so much difficulty in my past as well.' And you have gone through a lot of difficulty in your past. But then to look at all of that and say, 'Ah, but right now I'm at ease in His presence. I'm happy and peaceful in His presence.' So I'm so happy, I'm so grateful that God has blessed me with this. That is what the intention of saying this is. It is twofold: one is to not allow the mind to trick you into leaving spirituality because it is going to say, 'This is too difficult, I can't do it,' and second, to be grateful for those times of ease, for the times of peace, and to remember to be thankful to Him. That is the feeling behind when I say that it is not going to be easy. Not to sort of instigate some feeling of guilt or unworthiness that 'I'm at ease, so I must be doing something wrong.' Not at all. Not at all.

It's really good to hear that, Father. I think that's the trap I was falling for.

I know. I'm very happy you said this because sometimes things may seem very... from the perspective of one who shares, it seems very clear to them, obviously. But it's very good to hear feedback from those who are hearing because I never actually looked at it that way, that it could be heard in that way. So I'm very happy I got this chance to clarify to all of you that it's not like that. That you're actually praying, you're in God's presence, and you're finding a sense of ease about it, maybe your love is deepening, all of that is happening, and then when you hear from me in satsang, 'It's not going to be easy,' then you feel that, 'No, no, then that means I'm being fooled by the mind or something.' No, it's not that. That's not the intention of what I'm saying.

Thank you, Father. And the other I feel is maybe I'm not trying hard enough. I'm not... maybe there is so much. Our Father recommends books, I'm not reading them. Our Father expects us to do the beads two, three hours a day, and I'm not being able to do that. And our Father, you know, expects us to listen to various... or the extent of sadhana you do in your reading and your practices. I'm not even... I don't. And then one feels guilty and worthless because one is not even one iota of what one feels one should be doing that perhaps would, I think, make you happy.

Not at all. For me, I'm happy in a way that you feel that I do so much and I'm so immersed in sadhana and things. But if I look at my life also, I feel like I'm not one iota compared to these great ones who are true teachers of God. I feel like I have not even scratched the surface of that process. And I feel somewhere because of... you know, Ma Sita said this very beautifully. She said that when we encounter something that is so pristine—you see, when in our heart we encounter Him, the most beautiful, the most pristine one—and we may not understand this or articulate this to ourselves in this way, but in meeting that pristine one, when we compare that with our life, all of us are bound to feel inadequate. All of us are bound to feel... and I feel it on a daily basis, that I'm just a foolish beggar servant. I'm not at all being even a good servant to Him. But that recognition is always under the umbrella, under the safety net of the fact that He is my Father and He loves me and He knows that my intention is to be with Him. You see, my intention is to love Him more and more deeply.

So this is a very fine line. It's a very, very fine line. One is that we can get into sort of a despair. And one beautiful thing someone said was that one sage, an Orthodox actually, said that when we fall into despair, then the devil wins twice. You see? Because first it convinces us of our guilt, and secondly then it says that there's no chance for me, it's not going to happen. You see? So it's not about really despair. It's just that the contrast—a contrast between our worldly expression and His purity—is so much that we have to notice that and say, 'Wow, I'm so far away from the pristine beauty that is God, that is these beautiful sages. So far away from them.' And yet He still gives me the opportunity to be in satsang, to be in His presence, to be in His love. So His love, His mercy is so deep and so deeply on me that He's aware of my life and He's blessing me with so many gifts which I never thought I will have.

Very soon, in a very young age, I decided that I'm going to be an atheist forever, you see. So that boy's trajectory and where he was going has been completely transformed by His grace, including the grace which I spot now, which were the difficult times which broke my pride. But this life is such a gift compared to the fictional trajectory of that boy. Although I see my unworthiness, I see my stupidity, my foolishness in every way, and yet I feel so grateful that in spite of all of this, He's taking such good care of me moment to moment. He loves me so much that He's brought me to His feet in such a beautiful way. That stupid boy who was an atheist and wanted to convince everybody about... I was literally the definition of a scoffer when it came to God. So I wanted to convince everybody how foolish they were to buy into the notion of God. And how He has transformed his life is just a pure miracle. And we have to be grateful. And also from what I know about you and what you've been through, that you are here in satsang today and your heart is in such close proximity to God, isn't that a miracle in itself? It's a complete yes.

May I say something? For me, my...

I wanted to convince everybody about... I was literally the definition of a scoffer when it came to God. So I wanted to convince everybody how foolish they were to buy into the notion of God. And how He has transformed his life is just a pure miracle, and we have to be grateful. And also, from what I know about you and what you've been through, that you are here in satsang today and your heart is in such close proximity to God—isn't that a miracle in itself?

It's a complete yes. May I say something? For me, my God is everything. So my love for my Lord is 24/7 anyway, yeah, except for when Maya hijacks the mind. My love for my Lord God is 24/7 holy and absolutely. So my way of expression may be different. It may be to love people; it may be the trees, the dogs, the cats, because they are my gods. It may be to love even the unlovable, to love even the indefinable and inexplicable, because it is an expression of my love about God. Inquiry confuses me, but loving does not confuse me because God is love and love is God. If I'm just allowed to... if you tell me, you know, Chanda, you can go around loving the whole world without prejudice, it would be easier for me to pray and stay with the God that I love and understand.

Yeah, but I don't feel like I've told you otherwise.

I am hearing otherwise. Yeah, my mind is hearing otherwise and using it to bring me to despair, which is a word you use, to make me stop loving, which is a natural expression, and to go to the mind and say, 'Am I doing what the Guru says?'

So I am saying to you that you never have to inquire again for the rest of your life if you just love deeply like you love God, and deeply love your brothers and sisters. That is more than enough.

When I press you to do the inquiry, I don't know... it's so, so grateful. I made myself so unhappy misinterpreting your word. By your grace and your permission, if I can simply just love in the name of God, it's your blessing.

Of course, of course. I'm good with that. You teach us all how to love that deeply. Anyone who can say that 'my life is all for God 24/7,' there's nothing to worry about and you'll get no complaint from me. That's it.

Thank you so much. Thank you so, so much.

So welcome, so welcome. And what my tip for you is that before you get into despair, just come up in satsang. Yes, very good to speak about this openly because words are so inadequate at times—at most times, actually. And because, in a way, a teacher has to get a sense of everyone's temperament a bit and share and allow the heart to speak. Sometimes we will share Ashtavakra, Ribhu; sometimes we'll share Baba Farid Ji. It is unavoidable in that way that not everything, not every pathway to God, will be as resonant with us as another pathway is. But we are not to despair about that, and we are not to get into any sort of idea of winning or losing. To lose fully is to win in God. So don't hurry, don't worry.

Pray for me, Father, please. Pray for me, please. Pray for me, please, for all of us. Bless all of us. It is hard, it is hard.

But there is not one of us who can't smile through it, who can't love through it, and who can't create the joy within themselves through it because of His love.

I didn't say it's hard now. And now you can say because now I've got the right perspective, I've got the right clarity. Sometimes it's just too good to talk about these things so that you know.

Mostly is that whole... you know, the classic story of all time is the elephant and the six blindfolded people. That is just the classic story about the human condition, isn't it? Because everyone has... all of us have such limited capacity in the mind and intellect, so we have to present based on that. The one who has the tail in the hand will say 'rope, rope.' The one who has the leg in the hand will say 'pillar, pillar,' you see. So the expression will always be different, but as long as we find a way to point to the elephant, I feel we'll be all right. But we can't expect that one who is tasting a rope or tasting the tail will say 'pillar,' and one who is tasting the foot, the leg of the elephant, will say 'rope.' So it is just mostly... and I've seen that the most human conflict and things, it's mostly about this, you see? That everybody has their own perspective and their own life experiences to speak from. And because vocabulary itself is so limited, it's so difficult to put into words even those experiences, that communication—like verbal communication—is a very, very primitive, very gross sort of tool. A very difficult tool to utilize, especially to share about God. That's why I love the great sages like Kabir Ji and Tulsidas Ji because they can communicate in very simple ways the ways to God. And I have to say, actually, that even if you read Ramacharitmanas, there can be, if you read them in isolation, some verses which can seem very problematic. So we just have to get to the heart of Tulsidas Ji through the words of the heart. That is the attempt.

But there also, Father, if you get stuck in the world, exactly, then it'll go to the head. But if we stay with the love, because the love has no word, it has no boundary. Where does it begin? Where does it end? Moment to moment.

Absolutely. Thank you. But also don't fall into that trap. So suppose you are talking to someone, some satsang brother or sister, who is really finding a deepening happening in inquiry, you see? So then you must not feel that 'but the pathway of love is greater' or 'that is smaller.' It's neither greater nor smaller. Everything that leads to God is beautiful. So sometimes the mind wants to create a hierarchy in such a way that it says that only this way is the way. All ways to God are the way.

Yes, Father, I feel that all ways to God are shown by God Himself. Exactly. So nothing needs to be said. And if there's a brother and sister who's upset, then they just need a hug of love, and then there's not much thing that our words for them that God can't... No, I feel we're losing your audio. Words are very limited in there. Words are very, very limited, Father.

Yes, yes, yes. Now the audio came back now.

Yes, sorry, my phone was dying. No, I feel that goes with the theme of words being limited, that we're losing some of the words. Yes, Father, that's true. But it's also, Father, now that I've been in satsang for a few years, one can see where the words are coming from. Yeah. And I feel that if I just repeat the words of the Gurus and the teachers and the Saints, then I don't need any words from here. Just the words of the Gurus and teachers and Saints are so full of love, yeah, that quoting them is enough to lead a brother and sister into their own deeper understanding. Correct. That's what I try and follow. Otherwise, it's just better to keep quiet.

Yes, it's good, it's good. It's a good way to communicate. It's a good way. Very good, very good.

Oh, and Father, on a happier note, yeah, that if someone's, you know, looking angry or annoying me, if I say the beads, then huge quantities of love comes out for them.

Yes, very good, very good. It's just so awesome. Very good, very good. They remind me of a story of St. Therese that I just read today. She said that if somebody annoyed them... and she said that 'I'm still at that state, at that stage where people annoy me.' So she said that if they annoyed her, she used to make it a point to love them even more. So what happened is that after her passing, her book came out in which she said that this particular sister used to annoy her a lot, you see? And yet she used to try and love her. So apparently that sister was very surprised because she felt that she is her favorite. Ah, you see? That St. Therese actually loved her so much that this one felt that she is her favorite. Only upon her passing did she read in the book that she used to have that effect on her. Isn't that great? Because we find ways... I find ways to express my displeasure, if not in words or in anger, I'll make some facial expression or something to make the one feel like I'm upset or annoyed with them. But a great saint like her, at such a young age, had the maturity to make that brother or sister feel like they are so deeply loved by her. Such a beautiful learning for all of us.

Well, the love just comes, Father. So where it comes from... you said to contemplate on the source of love. Yeah. And maybe, maybe God will just make it apparent one day.

Yes, yes. You don't do any inquiry now.

Thank you. No, no contemplating, just love. It's okay. Thank you so much, blessed Father. Thank you. Love you, love you so much.

Love you so, so, so much. Okay, let's go to more hands coming now. So let's go to Karuna Mayi.

Thank you, Father. And I just wanted so much to be in satsang with you today. Somehow this... the external circumstances, they pulled me out from time to time, and also the tiredness. Yes. But I'm very grateful for these few moments, you know? And I don't know if there is something to expose. Maybe there are some... there is an 'I want Anna to be happy,' I guess, and to have some harmony, I guess, in this new home that we've been blessed with. And very good, very good. Oh, there is also... so I want for the house to be set up somehow quicker.

How to be set up quicker? Like there was a TV show while we were growing up—I don't know if you ever watched Bewitched? Did you see Bewitched? So this one in the world, she was like a householder lady, but actually she was a very sweet sort of witch. So when her husband used to leave the house, she would just snap her fingers and everything would get set up by itself. She didn't have to do anything. That just reminded me of that, something like that. And look, we did... we had help from satsangis and they did such great work in setting up the majority of the house. Almost like a superpower. We had some paid help for the kitchen and it's still working and needs reworking. I don't feel anybody moved houses and said, 'It's so easy.' Except I'm not going to say it to Chanda, but it's not easy. Have you noticed how... of course that was a difference in communication, but how the expectation of ease actually makes us suffer so much? And that is the point of my saying it's not easy. Then you expect that. But this is so difficult; it can only be troublesome when we expect it to be otherwise. Yeah. It's like when we are climbing a mountain, say Mount Everest, and someone says, 'Oh, this is so difficult,' everyone else will look around and say, 'Yes, what did you expect it to be?' And that's why my ranting is mostly against the spiritual marketing which makes it seem like spirituality is a path full of ease and stress-free life and all of that. That is my attempt to demystify that. The true spirituality oftentimes will seem very difficult because you're trying to transcend yourself. To get over yourself is a very difficult project.

Yeah, and I see I'm so involved in both projects, Anna and the house. And I pray for grace to be more anchored in where you and Guruji are pointing because it's not worth it. Like, I see it and then it's very hard to get out of it in a way. And this human desire just generates more Maya, and it follows you somehow.

Yes, I've never heard of Maya not following us. It follows us somehow. That is His design. So blessed to live here or near to you and be in satsang so often and have this dedication, I guess, to the best of our abilities to be with Him. May we take it fully because I've seen myself that I'm... I think now we are all blessed to have this opportunity to commune together and to remember God and to be in His presence for all of us.

And I was so ashamed to put my hand up again and again, you know? And when I felt that shame, I also felt so much grace and love coming. Thank you, thank you.

And I just want to say also that Chanda prays so wonderfully. Whenever someone asks for prayers in the group, he writes such beautiful prayers. Very, very... and for Stephanie to say that she's such a great sister for many of the sangha, and she will support and yeah, she won't hesitate to... I'm so happy to hear that. Very good. Yeah, I'm very pleased to hear all this. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. And is getting prepared. Thank you so much, Ananta Ji, and forgive me for my question and request. It may sound not...

I just want to say also that Chanda prays so wonderfully. Whenever someone asks for prayers in the group, he writes such beautiful prayers, very, very. And for Stephanie to say that she's such a great sister for many of the satsang, and she will support and, yeah, she won't hesitate to. I'm so happy to hear that. Very good. Yeah, I am very pleased with all this. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

And is getting prepared. Thank you so much, Ananta Ji, and forgive me for my question and request. It may sound not to be serious, but it's very serious for me, Ananta Ji. It is about my cat. She has a tumor in his kidney and he really suffers. Sorry, your cat has a tumor? Yes, yes, Ji. And I'm watching him to suffer for weeks now. And I understand the human suffering has a reason to turn us to God, but I don't see any reason why this animal has to suffer so much. But after, it came to my mind that in Ramana Ashram, there was some momentum, some like memory places for animals. And somebody said to me there that animals can turn to somebody as well. I don't know. I am very small to know things like this. And I had to pick up all my braveness to ask this because I know you are here for us, for humans, not for animals. But please, I don't know, could you please bless my cat? I show you. I don't want to lose your audio. I don't know if she's just a reason or I don't know. Just please, could you bless him?

Yes, but we lost your audio and video when you turned, so can you do it again? I was not able to see. Oh, my dear, we're losing the video when we... can you see now? No, it's just a blank screen now. Can you see? I can't see, my dear. It's just a blank screen. Ah, yes, and now, yes, much better. Can you see? Can you see him? Yes, yes, my dear, I can see. What is his name?

Siegfried. Siegfried. Siegfried. Yes, Siegfried. Still, thank you so much, Ananta Ji. Thank you. Thank you. Love you so much, Ananta Ji. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Love you. Love you.

Let's go to Kunal.

Hello, Father. How are you? Good, good, my dear. Very good. Yeah, I spent maybe the last month or two just not coming to satsang because of, basically, resistance, I think, to you and anytime you would talk about God and, you know, bowing down the head and everything. It would just kind of stir something up in me, and it may very well continue to do so. But I just felt kind of stagnant, you know? That just, you know, by not coming, I'm not doing myself a favor. So I might as well try to come no matter how strongly I feel like I don't want to listen to this guy anymore. Like, so to go ahead and come because just staying away is not going to do me any good. I might as well just deal with it head-on. So I'm going to try to make a promise that I'm going to come every week, if not every other week at least. But if I don't come, then I still try to listen to your satsang on the YouTube over the weekend. Yeah, but just kind of... I just wanted to explain that. And I don't know, I also was starting to miss you a little bit, so I thought, let me go say hi to him. But yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it.

Good, good, good. I'm happy to hear the honesty and sweetness of your report. It's very sweet. Um, it can be like that. It can be like that, that there are times where it seems like too much, too much, you know? Too much now, I need to be normal. All this constant talk about God is just irritating after a point, and I can't take any more of this. It is, it is. These are normal ways to resist satsang. But I'm glad that somewhere there's a compass still pointing you back to God. And it's all right. Some of these ups and downs we all go through in our spiritual life. I've done a lot of this as well in my life, so I'm not at all in any place to judge any of that. But I'm happy that God's Grace has made you take this resolution that in spite of the resistance, you will make it a point to come periodically, as often as you can. So we have to, all of us have to go through these ups and downs. Sometimes I remember your report one time about how you were just so blissfully, deeply feeling love for God, for Krishna, and yeah, and other times it can feel very dry and arid and like that. It's all of us have to go through these things. But just like this, just remind yourself to listen to your heart sometimes at least, and by God's Grace, that will bring you to satsang. So don't let the distance become too much that it seems like you've just fallen out of love with God completely, because it's a great gift that has been also given to you, this love for God. Don't worry, don't put too much pressure on yourself, but also don't disconnect too far. Don't make it too difficult for yourself to feel His love, feel His presence.

Okay, Father. Yeah, I... thank you. Thank you. I love you. Bye. You're free to say whatever. I just said that I started to miss you a lot, and I was thinking of you like a long-lost friend, that let me go say hi to my friend again, you know? Because I don't know, near, but kind of more than a friend, but yeah, also as a friend.

Friend, this friend, this. Very good. Very okay. Bless you. Bless you. Thank you.

Oh, Father, one more thing. Can I ask you to please pray for my uncle? Yeah, yeah. His name is Nishant. Yeah, now. Thank you.

Welcome. You're welcome. Okay, let's go to Kesha. Sorry, Father, I know it's late. Looking forward to getting introduced to this young child. He's been so... he wants to say hi so bad. Hello! He keeps waving and waving. He's a big boy. He's going to be like an American football quarterback. Bella, I see. What is the biological age?

He's not even a year yet. I think he's like six months, and he has like all of his teeth, and the doctor said they've never seen feet so big. He's just huge. He's so heavy.

Wonderful, wonderful blessing. Yeah, then there's... and then we have Leah too. Leah, do you want to say hi? Yeah, she's being shy, but she's here too. She's cute. Um, they're all asking, how is this baby related to you?

So it's my cousin's, my cousin's babies, and I love taking care of them. And I'm always jumping at the opportunity to spend time with them because I can't believe you... yeah, they just remind me to... look at how he's looking at you. Yeah, he's very sweet. He's very in tune to people, and he doesn't react like a typical child. It's very interesting. He'll just stare at you stoically, and you'll try and be funny and play, and he just stares. No reaction. He's really a tough crowd. He's a tough crowd.

Yeah, really listening intently. He's really observing intently. I don't know about listening, but he really is. Yeah, that's to your face, but he can't see it. He's just seeing the computer or phone in front of him. So yeah, he's definitely listening, I feel. He's a very sweet boy. Chunky monkey. But I just wanted to say hi and to... I don't get many opportunities to talk to you in person like this, so I wanted to just say hello. And I love you so much. And I'm really sorry, you know, for... he wants your attention. Yeah, after he heard that love part, he's like, 'No, I'm the one you should love.' He immediately had a reaction to that. Yes, yeah. But yes, I am... I just wanted to also, you know, I know that in moments of disconnect that I can be quite cruel, and I know I never want to be hurtful. It's never my intention to be hurtful, and I'm really sorry for that. And I apologize too much, but really the true apology is just to stop doing that. So yeah, I love you so much. Yeah, I'm really sorry.

No, not at all, not at all. It is, it is. If we don't have this in families, then how are we going to have all we need to? Yeah, now it's just attention. Now this is like what my daughter used to do as well. When she felt like two other people were talking and she was not involved, she would just start making some noises and, 'Hello, you want attention? You want attention? What do you want to say? What do you want to say?' Oh, that's just too cute.

I know, he's so cute. Yes, and thank you for these reminders of, you know, staying like a child. They're just so potent and so important. And when you said that you can't suffer without a thought, and then I asked if that was still the case and still a pointer, and you said yes. As a child, a child doesn't have complex thoughts like that. It's very much connected. Thank you. Love you. Bye. Thank you, Father.

Thank you, my dear. That's... are you going with... very good. You're okay there? All is good. I'm driving down there. Didn't take my car. Okay, more things. Yes, so start a house, be coming 30, 40 days, spend a week. Yeah, because I feel that, you know, a lot of distractions are there, so much. Don't... yeah, careful. Don't worry, don't. And drive, say, drive slowly and make some stops on the way. Definitely. Yeah, even if you don't want us to, sorry, even if you don't want us to, we will come. Everybody can. Must be some device that helps in this.