The True Purpose of Our Lives - 22nd July 2024

If you keep asking yourself the Mahamantra of the ego, which is 'What's in it for me?', that is not going to get you anywhere because you burden yourself with this false 'me' then you undertake the inner journey. So to chant or to really remember God, first we have to start, we have to stop chanting the 'me'. Then in that, what's in it for you? What will happen? Nothing. That's the idea. Can you live with that? So unless you recognize that the endeavor is to get over yourself, then neither the Atma Gyan nor the Atma Darshan will happen, and both are actually the same. So the path of Gyan leads to the same point and the path of Bhakti leads to the same point. One may call it Atma Gyan, one may call it Atma Darshan, but it doesn't matter. Either way, you have to get over yourself or what you take yourself to be.

So what is that process of getting over yourself? What is that opportunity you have to immerse yourself in the 'me'? That is what you have to cut out, isn't it? It's not something that is organic in you to take yourself to be an ego. It requires some work; it requires some sort of effort which we'll talk about. So in the simple statement when the sages told us that the lane is too narrow, there is room either for God or for me, is the essence of spirituality. So what is the mechanism with which you can make this moment about me and not about God? How do you like that? Originally, organically, if you remain quiet and empty—quiet meaning inwardly quiet—then who are you? Who are you? You can't conclude. You can't find a 'me' to point to and say, 'That is who I am.' At best you can say that there is 'I am' present, there is a presence. And finally, you can say that I am aware even of that presence. Even that holiest of holy is not my originality. In my complete innocence, I am just aware of even the presence and the absence of that which is the light of this universe.

You must be very careful at this point because the mind would love a claim like this, and if it is given to the mind, it becomes the wrong claim. But if you stay with it in your heart, then it unveils the highest recognition possible in the universe, in the—not just the human condition, but the highest. How does it happen? Can you make it happen? Like in the world, if you lost something, you can go look for it. Can you find your phone in this room? You can look for it. How will you look for it? Come on, sensory perception. You already have a model in your head which says that this kind of attributes, this kind of shape, implies 'phone', and some specific attributes make it 'my phone'. So then we find it like that. But when we go looking for ourselves there, what is the mechanism? How to look through your heart or how to look through inner inside? Does anyone know how to do it?

Cannot know. At least here, if we don't know how to do it, how do I look? Go looking for the presence of the Atma within, and in the discipleship of the Atma, with the aid of the Atma, then look at the source even of the Atma within. Who knows how to do it? Nobody knows. We know the negation, what not to do. Hopefully by now in Satsang we know what not to do. But the 'what to do' or the 'how it happens'—because it's not really what to do, but how it happens—is only ever a gift of Grace. So one who is an Olympic inquirer cannot say that they have a guarantee of finding the Self, and one who is a novice who maybe has come to Satsang for the first time cannot say that 'I cannot find'. Often we do say that, but how that Grace is going to unfold is all up to a power, the power which runs this entire universe.

What does that mean then? That that which we take ourselves to be has no role to play? If that was true, then no sage would have ever spoken anything, is it? It's all going to happen like this. It is true, and yet, yes, but you see, I have a 'yes, but' on this. For those of us scientifically minded, we can look at it in a way that if you go back and look at the lives of those who came to this insight, you will mostly find that they paid a certain cost for this Grace, a certain cost of discipleship of the Atma. And that cost was to sacrifice the content of what the 'me' wanted moment to moment, keeping the focus inward either in the form of prayer or in the form of inquiry or whatever mechanism that the master, their teacher, taught them to remain inward-facing.

So both these things go hand in hand. What is it to offer ourselves to God? Is it a lip service that we can do once a day and say, 'My life is yours,' and then we just go our own merry way doing exactly what we think we want, getting exactly what we think we need? Or is there something different in the sages' constant reminder that we have to surrender, we have to follow His will? So that's where the true battleground then is. Where is it? In this moment. Yeah, in this moment, what is your focus? Who is walking on that narrow lane where only God or me can be, not both? And if you get this main point, then the methods are secondary, and you have enough methods at your disposal. But we can get into some of that, but this is the main point. You must step out of like a provisional spirituality, like a lip service spirituality, into a true spirituality which comes with a seeming cost.

Many times the virtue, the benefit of something, initially seems like a cost. What greater privilege can there be then for us to lead a life moment to moment in God's love and God's light? Cannot be a greater privilege. But initially, because we are so used to going our way, this can seem like a sacrifice. And this we have to do. It can seem difficult because apparently we have a life. We don't know whose life this is, we don't know what life is, we don't know how it comes, we don't know how it goes, but apparently we have a life and it is our life. So in that life, the content of the moment seems compelling to make us focused on the 'me' which we can't find, to think about things which are about this world and about this 'me' rather than keep the focus on God.

And the world has come to such an extent now that even spirituality has become about the 'me', not about God. It's so strange that it is only a rare spirituality which is about God. Most spirituality is: 'How is the notion of God going to help me? How is going to a guru going to help me?' That is that, or what? I don't know if it's always been like that, but it certainly seems absurd that even the Holy Light of all existence has been made about one egoic entity that we have just conjured up, we can't even find. And it's absurdity after absurdity because all of us know that we are going to die. What we take ourselves to be is going to die. This body is going to die. We know that, and yet we don't tire. We don't tire of collecting for this, of just focusing on this, even though we might have enough to sustain this for many, many years, much many more than we can expect to live. This is the play of Maya.

We really ask ourselves: What is all of this for? If I go—I was saying to a child the other day that if you were richer than King Solomon, the Rothschilds, and everyone put together, you had a gazillion dollars or something like that, and then you die, do you get VIP treatment in heaven? Is there a special line for those who are gazillionaires? I doubt it very much. What amount of worldly benefit and privilege gives you special room in your heart? At what point do we see that really our focus is to become away from this 'me' through a greater reality which we know now in our heart is true, you see? So the biggest trick probably of Maya is the idea that 'I have time'.

So in the world, whatever way we may have been, but in this process, most of us are like how I used to study for my exams. I used to always think that I have time. But we cannot do this with this exam. You cannot say that once I'm done with everything else, then I will make room for God, then I will give every moment to Him, you see. Because it is very touching to me when I hear sometimes great sages like Hanuman Prasad Poddar Ji wonder for themselves, after leading a whole life of service to God and love for God, wonder for themselves whether God will give them space in His heart. And that humility is very important. Now the thing is that we don't want to face that possibility because it seems too scary. All the sages have told us that our purpose is to lead a life devoted to God so that we can then find our place at His feet, find our place in our true home. Kabir Ji said that I'm not liking this place anymore, I want to be in a place where nothing...

Sages, after leaving a whole life of service to God and love for God, wonder for themselves whether God will give them space in His heart. That humility is very important. Now, the thing is that we don't want to face that possibility because it seems too scary. All the sages have told us that our purpose is to lead a life devoted to God so that we can then find our place at His feet, find our place in our true home. Kabir Ji said that 'I'm not liking this place anymore. I want to be in a place where nothing ever comes and goes. That is my true home, where my home has no pillars or doors. That is my true home; there I find my complete rest.' And in various different ways, all sorts of forms of those who had great insight have told us about the cycle of transmigration, Atma Gyan, whatever—in whichever way you want to talk about it. And it's all right; you may say, 'I don't believe in any of that. I don't believe in any of that.' But how confident are you of what you believe? Are you willing to bet your life on it, as opposed to what sages like Kabir Ji and Tulsidas Ji have told us?

The trouble is because there doesn't seem to be an immediate impact either of misidentification of ourself as ego or of mistaken beliefs about whose life this truly is, which is actually the same. And because the possibility to win seems alive in this world of Maya, although the ones who have really achieved what they wanted to always testify to the emptiness of that achievement and then point to a greater place which is our true home. There too: inside true love, true peace, true joy. It is beyond time and space and beyond this universe because in this universe everything comes and goes. So Kabir Ji said that my true home is that where nothing ever comes and goes. Remind you of something? He started this conversation with: where do you go when you go inside? Who lives there? Who is aware of all of these perceptions? How is it that this is not the primary question in all our lives? And when we say a question, it doesn't have to be only as a question, but the primary focus. How is it that we only want to enjoy the good stuff that comes from there, but we never want to question where it comes from?

Who could have invented love? Who could have invented peace or joy or justice or mercy or kindness or music? All the beautiful things that we want to enjoy, but never look at where it comes from. So it is the nature of Maya to make it about the byproducts and not about the essence itself. And we are running on a treadmill just trying to make the 'me' better and better and bigger and bigger, and in that we are forgetting about the true purpose of our life, which is to recognize our true selves, which is to make our life a true temple of the Holy One, become vessels of the Holy Spirit as disciples of the Atma. How many of us can truly confirm that our life is being led in the discipleship of the Atma? And if we can't confirm that, at least let's negate that and say such a thing is just absurd, it can't happen. But if it can happen—and I'm saying to you that it can—then why not us? What is missing? Is the intention missing? Are the tools missing? Does it seem too difficult? Do you want to hedge your bets and have on both fronts, which nobody can ever do? You can win in the right place and then, by His grace, if some winning has to happen in the outer here, that can happen, but it will seem irrelevant to what you have truly won.

So we must investigate what is it that is stopping us in our life. Which aspect of it is seeming too difficult? If to live as a temple of God, as a disciple of the Atma, as a vessel of the Holy Spirit, there is a possibility for you in your life, then why not you? Why not now? What is going to be a good mahurat for this?

I feel like for me the frequency of interruption by life is too high. It's like if I'm trying to learn something or better myself in some way, I need an extended amount of time where I'm able to be in that space. But if things are constantly popping up and yanking me back in, then how am I ever supposed to make any progress? And so I think that maybe spending time away from literally just life could speed up that process, but then that's also like that kind of desire and it's like I'm kind of chasing something. So I don't know, but I feel like that's why it's so difficult for me.

Very thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. And let's look at, for example, today, huh? So what interrupted you today?

Like some something emotional in my... sorry, that my mother said to me. Like something about the family and yeah, something that seemed very important to give attention to.

Yeah. So is it ever possible, even if you went for example to a cave and nobody was there to bother you, then some snake comes or you hear some lion in the background or something like that, you see? So the nature of this game, the nature of this push-pull that we spoken about, these twofold spheres, both of which are attractive. But Maya is attractive in its immediacy and says, 'This is important and it has to be done now.' This is the longing for God, the longing for the greater truths, you see, is potent, but it's not rushing. It's not pushing you saying, 'Now, now, now.' Very rarely does that happen. So then we must find a toolset, a toolkit which allows us, knowing that Maya is going to play like this. The world is always going to be like this no matter where I skip to, which farmhouse I live in or which cave I find for myself. There will always come something in the form of interruption, and it can come in all sorts of forms. It can come in the forms of business opportunities, in the forms of new relationships, in the forms of opportunities to better our physical selves, and also many times in the forms of a deeper intellectual understanding. So all of these elements can get in the way.

How is it that we can avoid all of that or come into a place where most of these fall away and we are not distracted from God because of all of these things? It is by using the tools which you found in satsang. So to remain open and empty, to constantly pray, to constantly inquire. Just whatever resonates with you the most, bet your life on it and say that whoever calls me I'll be with them. And the beauty of all of this is that as we put in that seeming effort initially, it becomes more and more natural, it becomes more and more organic. So you'll find that at the surface level things can keep moving, like these words are being said from this mouth, but the change from that inward focus doesn't happen that easily. It happens often, but it doesn't happen as easily as it used to. So the point is not to find a physical escape. The point, the real point, is to find that inner sanctum where with our love, with our devotion, with our effort, we have made it more and more solid, more and more difficult to attack and get through.

So wherever you are is the best opportunity for you to do this work. And whatever your attempt is, as long as the focus is on the truth, as long as the focus is on God, the methods will come, the means will come. And also remember that if you just made an attempt and it became easy and there weren't these external push-pulls, then we would quickly become complacent and proud: 'Oh, this is simple, you know, I just started doing this and then everything around me just went away and it was just so easy to be with God.' But initially, the attraction of this force field will seem very difficult to overcome. And then when we start to recognize that actually nothing on the outside has that power—see, nothing on that outside has really that power to distract me from my true contemplation, my true looking. It is my mind which uses my emotions as evidence and paints a narrative for me and says, 'Oh, this is not good' or 'This is good,' which then gets in the way. Because the phone call can last whatever amount of time, but even if you say that during that time all my attention, all my focus was not on God, I took myself to be a person and I took the one talking to me to be another person, but the after-effects of that is what linger longer, isn't it? And that lingering longer happens because we buy into some narrative.

So if you can change that, change this narrative also to start with saying that it is about the world and how it stops me, to: what are these stories which still seem compelling to me and who is the central protagonist of that story? You see, when this one says difficult work, I'm not at all saying that it's easy, but it must be done. Because life will always squeeze our buttons, squeeze our throat and say, 'But now you have to focus on this.' And many times, and pretty soon, you will have these challenges where the world will tell you you have responsibilities, you have certain things you need to achieve. All of these things, I'm sure already it is happening, and not just parental, from everywhere that you go. Otherwise, the notions of being a slacker, being a loser, all of these can get thrown at us. So you have to be vigilant to that and don't put yourself in that construct, in that narrative at all. So it's a lot of inward work which helps us to deepen in that heart space, in that heart temple, where then we are not that easily shaken. So full blessings are with you for that, and satsang is always here to help you with any of these challenges that you're facing.

But today just remember that it's not the outside that can pull you; it's always here in the head. And that is the biggest battle we will ever encounter. So like the Buddha said, that one may transcend or may overcome a hundred armies, but only a rare one can overcome themselves. So this Maya we cannot escape; as long as the waking state is there, we will experience it. And as much as we try to construct the optimum environment for us to be able to achieve the true purpose and meaning of our life, it just doesn't get there. And if you fall into that trap, then we keep chasing that forever saying, 'I'm just looking for that perfect environment.' It's already perfect for us to be with God, you see? The only thing that gets in the way is over here. Yes, you see that? Very, very good.

That's why to put God at the center of our life is very helpful because then we paint a narrative for ourselves that says, 'I want Him' or 'I want to be guided by Him, to be blessed by Him.' But my life gets in the way. Then we start to see that if we really wanted to be with our parents, even our biological parents, then they would do anything to make that happen. So what about that parent of this entire universe? When a child is longing for them, for their help, it is my experience—in a way, the life story here—that He provides help at every step. So to remember that He knows, to remember that He knows much better than I do. Every breath that I take, every intention that I have is not hidden from Him. That is the only true audience; it is always an audience of one. C.S. Lewis actually said that we are the characters in the book that He is writing—that God is writing. So He knows every step that we have taken, how we got there. So it is absurd to believe that He doesn't know what we are going through.

To remember that He is the author of the story then takes away this question of 'Does He have time for me?' The seven billion of us, at least seven billion just on one planet, how will He ever? He's writing you, He's living you, He is the one Consciousness that is life itself. So we can welcome the obstacles actually, because if they don't come, then we don't know what we have to transcend. When they come, we see, 'Ah, this one still gets me.' These emotions or these appearances still pull me out, away from my true sadhana, my true work, into taking myself to be that which I'm not. And of course, the temptation is to run, the mind's temptation is to run, but it's more important to see through it, to transcend it, because the work you will do on yourself in those times is much greater than the work you would do if you were secluded in a cave or something.

When they come, then we don't know what we have to transcend. When they come, we see, 'Ah, this one still gets me.' These motions or these appearances still pull me out, away from my true sad, my true work, into taking myself to be that which I'm not. And of course, the temptation is to run; the mind's temptation is to run. But it's more important to see through it, to transcend it, because the work you will do on yourself in those times is much greater than the work you would do if you were secluded in a cave or something. Unless you can truly say that it is the way that God is guiding me, my Atma is taking me this way, till then we cannot move in that way. So those sages who really discovered themselves, discovered the truth of God in secluded caves and things, they were guided by the Atma within. And there are many, many, many, many sadhus who now are just sadhus when it comes to outer appearances, because that which they tried to escape in the form of an outer world just followed them wherever they went. So we have to become an inner sadhu, which means patience, acceptance, working on our primal instincts of anger.

For what is the part of satsang which you just can't swallow? All of us must be having some part there. Like, hopefully, like what he says about this, this, this, but when he says about this... like it could be God's temple in our heart, or life being in service to God, or it could be the presence of God in this way which is helping us and guiding us every step of the way. Or it could be the... I don't feel like anybody in satsang disagrees with the Nirguna reality of our true self. Everybody loves that, at least conceptually; that doesn't attack anything or anyone, it seems fine. But otherwise, humility. Sometimes I know that we struggled with the notion of sin for many, many months. I'm sure some of you still resist that strongly. That's why I've been saying that just ask yourself: 'Am I living every moment in God's will?' By yourself, you don't have to expose it. Am I living every moment in God's will? So those moments that you're not living in God's will, you give it the name you want. Don't call it sin; error, mistake, huh, whatever you want to call it. And what are we doing about that mistake? Or are we still in that trap?

If you're still in that trap saying, 'Oh yes, but everything is God's will, so how can I not be living in God's will?' Yes, everything is in God, and yet all the sages reminded us that we have to follow His will. What is that about? How can that be? Already everything is God's will, and yet all the sages told us you have to follow God's will. It's like the sages, they came and they had this precious time to spend with us and they just said, 'You must breathe through your nose.' Already breathing, no? Or they said, 'We must breathe air.' Already breathing air. So how is it that in all religions, all cultures, all spirituality, we are told to live in His will? What is that about? It is about exactly what we spoke of in satsang today: In this moment, who are you serving? Is it the 'me' or is it God or Truth? So don't follow me, don't fall into any sort of conceptual trap, because then it would be absurd. That Kabir Ji based his whole teaching on this point, that we must live in God's will. You feel like a saint like that would not know that everything happens by God's will? He did not know that even a blade of grass doesn't move except when it's God's will? So what are we being told? That yes, everything is God's will, and yet there is a cost of discipleship, there is a cost of Grace.

And this our intellect cannot understand. So take it like a Zen koan or something and accept that it is like this. Because your other idea that, 'Oh, but how can I live in God's will? Everything is already His will,' is just absurd. Then all the sages told us to live in God's will, and they also told us that everything happens only by God's will. So what's going on? Till in our life we don't have opposites which are both true, we cannot deepen in our spiritual search, okay? Because that is just a symptom of a conceptual understanding. We just weed out all the opposites and we feel like we made a very clean house of spirituality. That house of spirituality probably is in your head. One of the first teachers I went to said to me, and I didn't understand at that point because I was also very linear in my approach, he said, 'Truth is not 1+1=2, it's all goose-goose.' What did he mean? So till we don't get used to or find the place within ourselves where the goose can both be in the vase and not in the vase, till we don't find that place where it is true, till we don't find the fifth as Buddha says, till then we cannot really deepen in our intuitive Gyan. We may learn a lot in our mental faculties, but till we don't go beyond yes, no, both yes and no, neither yes nor no, till we cannot face a fifth, then we have to consider being ready for the faith in our heart, deepen the faith in our heart to accept the discipleship of the Atma.

Because everything will be done by God, but you also have to do everything. And avoid it as you may, you cannot escape this fact. You have to offer yourself. When it seems really difficult, you have to give your heart to God over and over again. You have to keep returning your focus to the truth when Maya compels us. So remember, the truth will not be solved in a linear way. One child many years back said to me, you know, 'Father, you are a very excitable one.' So she said to me, 'Father, on this weekend I read the whole Talks with Ramana Maharshi.' So I said, 'Okay, now a very good report is coming.' I read the whole Talks with Ramana Maharshi, it's this thick a book. So she said, 'I read that,' and she said, 'I'm so upset with Bhagavan. I'm so upset with him because the book is just riddled with contradictions. Sometimes he says leave it all to God's will, sometimes he says that you have to inquire every moment by yourself. Sometimes he said like this and sometimes he said like that, and I read the whole book and I don't know what to believe now. What do I do? I'm so upset with him.'

So that is probably the point that we just started sharing about, this fact that it's not a straight line, simplistic, primitive sort of understanding, you see? This is... it's not kindergarten coloring books they are talking about, the nature of reality itself from where all of these universes come and go. So the more innocent we can be in our head, the more innocent we can be in our intellect, then you can find the beautiful symphonic nature of Truth which builds in ebbs and flows, not in straight lines. So what is the fifth that the Buddha is talking about? The fifth corner of the room. The four corners he's told us, so he demolished linear logic, Greek sort of logic, where he said that things can be yes, things can be no, but they can be also both yes and no, true and false. That's the end of Aristotelian categorization about it. Then he also demolished the Eastern where it's more acceptable, okay, things can be both true and false, things can be neither true and false, by saying, 'No, but we must find the fifth.' What is the answer to the true question is the fifth.

So then apparently when people, students used to ask him questions which were purely intuitive, like somebody asked him, 'What happens to enlightened ones after they become enlightened? Do they come back to help others or do they forever not return to the cycle of transmigration?' So he said the fifth. Was he just finding a way to escape difficult questions? What is in... what are they? Are they just mind riddles? And if they were mind riddles it would be really sad, because disciples looking for the truth were told to focus on one koan for their entire life till they came to true insight. So that holy discernment which can come only from that deeper place within you, that is true Viveka, not an intellectualization of it saying, 'Oh, this is unreal, this is real.' When we become just intellectual like that, we only become spiritual jerks, we don't become truly spiritual. How did we get here? What are we talking about? Don't... what question? Okay, we can go to Chandra, she will bring us back on track.

Maybe the last part of what I said is definitely one I feel like even this is more palatable. What is least palatable for all of us is when it seems like we are scared of it, but we are scared to admit that. Like we are scared of a seeming sacrifice, we are scared of the risk which seems to be involved, we are scared of having that much faith to bet our whole life on it. Those parts seem more scary. All this sounds more fun to the mind, it seems more palatable.

I feel you. I was actually going to just come to what you already said is the... the thought that poked, the one thought that pokes me is that, 'Oh, but you know, I love my neighbors, I love my relatives, I love my buas, I love my cousins. There are so many people I love.' It's, 'Oh my God, if I turn inwards, does that mean I won't be able to express the kind of love for those who I love right now?' Because that probably is his mental love if I keep looking inwards. So that thought came and bit me. I am surrendering that at your feet.

So where does this all this love that you have for all of them come from? What is in... so you're saying that, 'I love everyone outside so much, brothers and sisters, relatives, friends, everyone. Actually, I love everyone so much, but I'm scared if I go inwards then I either won't express that love or won't feel that love.' But that love itself comes from God, from inwards. So you see the absurdity in the mind's proposal? It can also be that the mind is trying to shield a particular way that your persona is, which expresses and things like that. So the mind says, 'If you go to God, He may just make you an introvert who never says I love you to anyone, and that would be so sad and so terrible.' But when the mind says that, it's saying 'I know better.' That is that you know better than what God will do.

Remember that that is just taking a bite of that original apple. The mind will bring in the several years or decade or so that I spent in depression, bring that in again and again. So really, has anyone ever said that they spent their time in their heart and they came out depressed? Nobody. Never see that, that we came to God and regretted it, we came to our temple and regretted it. So depression is when, through whatever reasons in our life, we focus on that which is in our head and not in our heart. So nothing of that sort is going to happen unless our inward facing is facing the wrong way; it is here and not here. And then that also should make us contemplate, saying: Is our outer expression just an avoidance of facing inwardly because we are scared of those ten years or whatever happened in that time? Because we are scared of what we'll find and we are scared that maybe that will happen again to us. That could be something to look at.

And if that is preventing you from living your life inward-facing in God's land, then we must keep looking at that and keep talking about that, because sometimes it is these things that just make us scared. They make us scared and we feel like, 'I'd rather express my love outwardly than live in an inward love for God and leave the outward expression to Him.' I need to look at this one very... even to identify these things is gold, because many times the mind keeps diverting it and saying, 'No, no, the problem is over there, the problem is with that thing.' But to even be able to pinpoint and say, 'I'm a bit scared of looking inwards because those ten years where I spent like that, I don't want to repeat that.' You see? And that the mind tells you that that is what inward facing looks like, whereas inward facing is the most pristine, the most sublime, the most innocent, the most beautiful way to live. And we have to keep talking about this because we cannot let this prevent you from coming to your true light, which is in your heart, which is inward, yes. Because when I was depressed, I was also very physically ill, yeah. And my expression is also very... sometimes very angry, sudden expression, yeah. And something here is scared of becoming that one again, coming back to that, and your mind will keep giving...

It is the most pristine, the most sublime, the most innocent, the most beautiful way to live. And we have to keep talking about this because we cannot let this prevent you from coming to your True Light, which is in your heart, which is inward.

Yes, because when I was depressed, I was also very physically ill. And my expression is also very, sometimes very angry, sudden expression. And something here is scared of becoming that one again, coming back to that.

And your mind will keep giving you the story, picking on everything that happens, saying, 'See, see, you're going back into that. You're going back into that, so you better run. You better run.' You have to be careful of these tricks. But I completely understand because you spent ten years in that, so I understand the fear about becoming like that again.

I surrender it at your feet, Father, and follow your will.

And look closer as well. Yeah, very good. Let's keep talking about this regularly so it doesn't remain hidden, especially when the mind is convincing you that this is what's happening again to you.

Thank you. Thank you.

That's why we say Maya is a mahagi. First, it oppresses us after promising us the world. It says that you can become the king of the universe. Then it oppresses us, and then it says that, 'Oh, if you turn to God, what if you get oppressed again?' It's a one-two-three punch, not just a two-punch.

And angry and opposite every... that one is to... exactly. Arrogant also, demanding, not very sensitive either. It comes back to that.

It's very important to spot these. You can pass the mic to the front.

There was a whole list of resistances, but I'll focus on the most difficult one. It was the automaticity or need to fit everything that you're saying in a framework of sorts because of conditioning. It's almost like a slavery to that need, coupled with pride also, because that's what has so-called led to seeming outcomes in samsara, whatever. But yeah, that was the hardest, and it's a huge relief to have that be gone. And the rest of the list, which I won't talk about, but everything has dissolved only by looking at you. And the clarity and confidence and compassion with which the message comes out from you basically does not address my mind, but it dissolves my mind. And that is a huge relief and something I've never been used to. So submitting to that has been a challenge, but yeah, no longer so. And I hope it stays like that with your grace.

Very, very important. If you can all spot the connection with pride and the need to understand, it's really good.

I mean, I looked at this need to understand where I feel very attacked by the mind when, you know, when I use that thing that I can't know this. I mean, like you said, 'Do you know anything in this room?' Like when you said, 'Or if you know one thing, you know too much.' Then I feel very, very challenged and I have to really put all my faith in that, that God does know. I mean, somewhere I know that God knows, but it gets challenged. That faith gets challenged again and again and seems like a loop, you know? And but it's... yeah, I feel also it's... I don't know what's happening, but in some areas it's completely like... then sometimes it becomes a challenge to follow God. I don't know what God's will is. You know, you say one has to just keep taking those steps backwards and also being shown every day that really God does know. I mean, even the smallest thing, you know, you don't really need to go there with fear. So it's a happy... it's not happy, it's happy when I'm proved wrong that God really does. It feels very, very reassured.

It's just like an act of faith is a deepening of trust, a deepening of faith. Because a lot of times it's basically fear, but we are fearful to admit that it's fear also. Many of us just feel like, 'No, no, but this is what I think, what I prefer to understand.' And because we are fearful of what it means if what you're hearing in satsang is true—those aspects which you don't really particularly enjoy—then you're scared of contemplating that, 'What if it is like that?'

And here also, I was completely like this. I was very quick to discard, 'Oh, but this... oh, but this... no, no, I don't like that.' Then I started... this question started coming to me that if a great sage said like that, could they be malintentioned? Could they be lying? What could be their motivation to tell us this? You see, like in the past, if I was to hear of Kabir Ji, to take an example, saying the opportunity doesn't come again and again, then I would already have concluded that that is not the brand of spirituality which I like; I can't resonate with that. Then when the question came and said, 'Who has said this? Kabir Ji said this. Is he someone whose words I can just take and say, "No, no, I don't like this part of it"?' Not so. Then what is it that I'm not getting from what he's saying? What is it that I'm not getting? Because if I can't doubt his intention and I can't doubt his insight about the truths, then how has he said this?

That's... I mean, I'm with you. And then what happens... sorry, one second.

Then what happens is that you start looking at things without the lens of pride of spiritual knowledge, that 'I know something.' So it forces us—our spiritual journey forces us—to keep returning to a beginner mindset. And then that is when growth continues to happen. The time that we are able to conclude and say, 'No, no, now I have it all figured out,' and then without even expressing it like that, we are able to negate the words of great sages. So when Tulsidas Ji says that 'I am the tainted one, the worst one,' say the previous man who used to live here, 'I am that.' How can that be like this, the worst and all of that? Then it's Tulsidas Ji and it's Kabir Ji, and I am putting my judgment on it first and saying, 'No, I don't agree with this.' Am I somebody to disagree with them?

And of course, you may come to... we may come to that point where you say that, 'Okay, this I just can't resonate with.' But have we really contemplated it deeply in our heart? Deeply where we can say that I really deeply looked at it, you see? And then now I can say that now this has to be a mistranslation or a misquote or something like that. Can't you see? But do we really do that? No, we are very quick to discard. And it is in this way that Kierkegaard actually changed my life because he took the Abraham story and just kept drilling it in. So that initial resistance of 'This is not right, this can't be, this is not acceptable,' and most importantly, I was scared at looking at that and seeing that I would never be able to do what Abraham did. And that really struck me, and I looked at it and I said, 'This is an impossibility for me at this point.' So then the pathway became lit for me in spite of all that initial resistance. Because I started reading Kierkegaard earlier and then something was attractive to it, but something was resisting it. But when I read him the second time, it really changed my life.

So when we open to deepening and maturing even after the so-called spiritual insight and enlightenment and freedom and these so-called things, that is when we make sure that we are not falling for any spiritual pride. So life keeps giving us the signs, and it kept giving me the signs for many years. But it's only some Grace—I don't know how it happened—that this question started coming to me saying, 'Who are you questioning or negating?' And it just becomes a matter of... we don't even look at it that way. We just say, 'No, no, maybe that's meant for beginners,' something like that. 'Maybe that's just meant...' or he said it like casually and because he was talking to people who are walking on the streets and he wanted to make it approachable to them.

Isn't that exactly what we did when we were introduced to his dohas in school? 'Kal kare so aaj kar.' Nobody wants to hear that stuff. But we continue to do these things because some things are uncomfortable for us and we don't want to deal with the discomfort. But when we recognize the source where it came from—if Nanak Ji has said, Kabir Ji has said, if sages have said, there are so many great sages have said—what am I discarding? On what basis? Who am I to question the words of such great sages? And then that contemplation... and again I'm saying that we are not to just blindly... good you're able to come. So the idea is for us to really deepen in our way of looking. I'm not saying that we must take blindly what is being said to us, but we must find that space of contemplation where a sage has pointed us to something and our initial reactions of resistance and complete discarding... what stops us from really contemplating that? And then we can discard if it really doesn't resonate, okay? So we must not miss the opportunity to constantly deepen. And that's why this beginner mind idea is very, very good, because the minute you feel like you understood something, we stop growing. We stop growing that way. And that is pride. That is pride.

One of the ways in which I can put faith in it is because I see that if Father says it, I mean all the sages say it, it has to be true. But maybe I haven't contemplated it so deeply like you're saying, because sometimes I'm really not aware of what is my fear, you know what I'm saying? Like I can't figure that one out as yet. And what is it that I'm so afraid of? Because when I look, I see that when you say, 'What more will you do with this life?' I'm not like 30 or 20 and I have what just to do, but I've pretty much seen whatever life had to offer and I see that I can let it go. I can see that it didn't give me something. I have full gratitude for whatever I did see, but I can't say that I found God in there. You know, what you're showing me, I can't say I found it there. And a lot of the pride which I was blind to has been shown, that disobedience and who was I being faithful to. So many revelations have made it easier to follow what you're saying, but still there must be some fear which is not being addressed somehow or not being seen. Maybe I don't know this one.

It's just... it's very sometimes it's simple. It's like we built a house and then something is coming like as if it's a bulldozer or something, and we don't want that to get bulldozed. So we built our conceptual frameworks with great effort according to us, with a great amount of time, a great amount of learning, and something comes as a wrecking ball. We don't want to welcome that. So it takes a great maturity to welcome that which wants to wreck all your concepts, you see? It's a great maturity which is a lifetime of work to build that kind of humility that 'I really honestly don't know.' That is the mark of true discipleship of the Atma. Because we are very quick to cage ourselves without realizing that it's a new cage that we are building.

Happiness and... and you have to see that in the way... the mic... because I am looking at all the other programs and gurus. Yeah, I seriously can't help laughing, Father, because I am listening to them and I'm reading some of the books also, and I'm telling you they're full-on marketing happiness and health and wealth and yoga, you know, that kind of a thing, and abundance and make your future. Here I'm listening to you, I'm saying this one is marketing pain and suffering. My mind is like, 'What are you even doing here? Look at the other guys, look what they're offering you.' This one is like, 'Oh God.' But you know, Father, there is just so much love, there is just so much love that, you know, that kind of just radiates from you. And then that one can't do anything else but laugh and say, 'You know what? For this guy, pain and suffering is also good.' So that's okay. We can look at the other posters and kind of say, 'Nah, not for me. This guy is okay.' Thank you. Thank you.

Competitive nature that is created within us from childhood, right? So it's like nobody teaches us what you have to be best in. Yeah, I mean nobody is even trying to be best. They want to be number one. But how you will be number one? By trying to be the best. And that, right? You have to keep continue doing it like in any... even in the game, being number one is just about...

Also good, so that's okay. We can look at the other posters and kind of say, 'No, not for me. This guy is okay.' Thank you. Thank you. Competitive nature that is created within us from childhood, right? So it's like nobody teaches us what you have to be best in. I mean, nobody is even trying to be best. They want to be number one. But how you will be number one? By trying to be the best in that, right? You have to keep continue doing it. Like in any, even in the game, being number one is just about... it's a byproduct of you being your best. And there, it's only you being your best on a constant note, and that has to be there on an everyday basis. It's not like, 'Okay, you have to be number one on this.' This is what it is: you read this textbook, you become number one. It doesn't work out that way. And you know, to do that, you start creating certain things of your own exactly, and you start believing in saying that, you know, that is what is correct. And that is what is very difficult to unlearn, exactly. Like, you know, put it aside and say, 'Okay, if you're ready or listening to someone and you have to still learn that perspective,' is what makes it difficult for you to accept what the other person is saying because you already think that you know, and you don't want to define that.

Absolutely. And that's the very definition of conditioning. So you talked about both how the world conditions us and then our mind takes on that from whatever it has learned and builds that additional conditioning, which is constantly trying to preserve itself, to defend everything. When it hears, it wants to prove that 'I know.' See? So then sometimes you say there's a process of defrosting that happens. Initially, when we come to satsang, then we're just trying to pick and choose what we think we know and what we like, and it should be like this, you see. So after we get defrosted a bit, then we start to hear from a broader perspective. Otherwise, initially, everything can seem like an attack. A lot of it can seem very attacking and you're not receiving it.

Yeah, because you don't want to at all, right? Because you're programmed in that way that you don't want to listen. 'You know, what is he saying? How does he say that? Exactly from where does he know that?' All those things will pop up. But then if only if you can, like, unlearn what you have learned before is when you can... the possibility of learning more.

Great. The strange lifetime project. A strange project where we spend so much of our life learning all the wrong stuff, and then we try to spend the rest of our life unlearning all these wrong stuff and coming to the true place of learning.

They teach that learning wrong so much, like, you know, authoritative. Deep into your... so much, say, for told. Eventually, you want to eat what you want to eat, but still on that is condition. Yeah, that's how it is. And we all are in the same pattern. Somebody put something, just don't want to unlearn.

Exactly, exactly. And this is the vasanas, this is the conditioning that Bhagavan is talking about. And he has told us the only way to be free of them is to be empty of them in this moment. In this moment, you see, because we start to notice that all that is false needs a constant reinforcement. And the mind keeps offering the reinforcement in the form of resentment, in the form of pride, in the form of knowing something as 'you,' all of these things. But if you don't, then it starts to become lighter and lighter. It may never become zero percent, it may never fully go away, but that lightness allows us to remain with true essence, with a true presence. But it's so tricky, you know, that even with this, we can make a new philosophy out of it, you see. So it can become a new learning. So that's why when we used to have these conversations about people who said that 'I have no plan, I just live spontaneously,' and how you can look at that and say, 'But that sounds like a new plan.' It's not a 'no plan,' it's a 'new plan.' So that is the trap we must avoid: that sometimes we can get so enamored with the fresh perspective that we can feel like that perspective actually contains the truth, whereas the truth is contained wordlessly in a very broad way.

Yeah, so they tell if there is a textbook way of learning how to water, but in real truth, just your mind-body coordination doing that's about it. And actually, nobody can teach the other person how to do it.

This is the myth of knowledge being able to capture truth. The myth of conceptual knowledge being able to capture truth. So we need to share humility for us to let go of that.

Discovering something, want to prove... I just saw this always when you're doing something, you're trying to prove that God exists. And the heart should discover that, and you don't know how you discover because something just makes you see it the other way. And mind wants, 'Okay, prove this to me, prove that to me.' How is sound like it's so aggressive.

So this transcending of the mind, in a way, gaining a mastery over it in some sense without picking up the pride of mastery. To be able to remain empty of its proposals of who we are and what we should do. So this really is a lifetime project. And that's why also I've been saying that if we are concluding for ourselves that we have mastery over the mind and we can remain open and empty all day, then one day we should just try to pray all day. Because if you have mastery over the mind, then it should be easy to pray all day. This is to remain empty but within an anchor which can't hurt. So it's a tool, just like the example used by Bhagavan. He said when an elephant walks through the marketplace, if it has nothing in its trunk, it'll disrupt all the shops, all the fruits, all the vegetables, all of that. Okay? So the ones who are training the elephant give it a stick to hold in its trunk. So with that stick to hold, then it doesn't disrupt everything in its path. So the prayer to God is much deeper than that, but one way to look at it is the stick. So it gives your mind an anchor and it's not disruptive anymore, see? So if you feel like you can just be empty without the stick and you won't disrupt your life and anybody else's life, then try one day with this thing. And in the process, why I'm saying that is, in the process you may discover that actually your mind has a lot of 'used to.' And if you don't discover that, then that's beautiful, that's very good.

I don't have much to say. It's just to take a chance to see what comes up without going through any arc of understanding or presenting anything, because sometimes they just feel like a little defenses also in some way. And this I was just seeing before the satsang started that also with Guruji, I really try to clarify beforehand everything and then speak with him like, 'Okay, this is what I found and this is what's true.' But then it's not so fresh sometimes. And sometimes I speak with him very freshly also. Yesterday just some words came spontaneously, and I trust that more. Yes. And maybe just also to acknowledge God's presence and so much grace also from yesterday's Guru Purnima and from our connection with God. It's a very, very blessed life that all of us have.

Yeah, completely yes. It's such a blessing to have life and to attempt at least to use this life to live in His light and presence. So beautiful, beautiful blessing.

And Father, when the attention goes to 'How can I serve God best?' because really I feel that's the main drive when I look at possibilities or whatever I could do. Also, it doesn't feel like... sometimes it feels like having a bit of independence in terms of material independence and stability would allow a bit more of that whatever power to come through. But that's not necessarily... maybe it's not the case, it's just a thought. Because I felt one joyful thought that just came today, felt like I would like to go to Bangalore to be with you for a while.

Yeah, very happy if you come. You know this already. Yes, welcome to come.

Yeah, thank you for that. That's very beautiful. And then the only thing is that the timing, I'm not sure. I'm sure I would like to, I'm not sure exactly when. And also the feeling came, if I would have all the money in the world, I'd just like, 'Yeah, I would go to see Ananta Ji.' And the truth is now I don't have a lot of money, but I do have enough money that could take care of the travel and at least a little time there.

So yeah, that's already there then. It's very good. I'm happy to keep talking about this and trust life in whichever way it flows. But my full, full encouragement is there for that.

Thank you. Thank you. Love you. Love you so much. Thank you.

Okay, let's go to Mani. Thank you, Father. Welcome.

Thank you. I just felt out of my love for you and forgot that I had to come somehow because so much, like in my heart, is so much what you're speaking. But yeah, somehow the practical of it, I don't know. I am not somehow able to do it and to ask for... to be honest, my mind is absolutely bullying me. It's like somehow bullying you or pulling you... bullying, pulling me. And I can see the one who, like the identity, but yeah, somehow I'm not able not to believe it. And I know what you say, that if you think you are in Maya, but...

What is it pulling you with? What is the temptation?

It's all like... it's constantly telling me... okay, I'm going to just say it, but okay. Telling me, it's telling me constantly what to do like in the terms of sadhana, what you say, what Guruji says. It's constantly like I cannot stick somehow to one thing because it's constantly telling me. And I can see the one who is telling. Even maybe now I'm identified with, I don't know, but yeah.

I understand this. I understand this very much where the life of a seeker is actually very confusing. Very confusing because the mind also seems to hear everything in satsang and then also has this authoritative way of wanting to guide us and advise us in the guise of a spiritual friend, and sometimes in the guise of a spiritual master sitting in our head. 'This is what you must do, this is what you must not do.' And then what happens is because in every spiritual pointing, in every satsang, there is so much which can seem contradictory to the mind, you see, and the mind tries to use all of this, then it doesn't have the musical flow, the symphonic flow which the heart's teaching has. Then our spiritual seeking itself becomes oppressive and tiresome, yeah? Isn't it so? So in a way, you know what to do, which is to not follow spiritual advice from here, but to allow it to unfold from your heart. And just remember again and again, it'll force you, it'll bully you, it'll pull you, it'll do all of these things. But you noticing that is also very good, which is to... because many people just end up following the mind's version of our spirituality thinking that they're being spiritual, but it ends up becoming prideful and becoming blocked to God actually, rather than coming to God. So just if you don't know, it is better than knowing from the mind.

Say again, please.

Yeah, if you don't know, it is better than knowing from the mind. So learn to live in that 'I don't know what to do and how to do it.' Okay? And that can be very shaky. It's like, 'Okay, what do I do? And Ananta Ji has said not to waste time, you see, so I'm just wasting time because I don't know what I'm supposed to do.' Then like that. But that 'I don't know' is more auspicious than 'Oh, my mind is saying do this, my mind is saying do that.' Because you don't... you will never... none of us will ever find stability in that way. We want stability of sadhana, we want a simple approach to peace, to God. But if the mind is driving this car, it is always going to lead to more and more instability. And then the mind will say, 'Because it is because of the outside. You listen to him also, you listen to him also, you listen...'

I'm supposed to do this, then like that. But that 'I don't know' is more auspicious than 'Oh, my mind is saying do this, my mind is saying do that' because you don't—you will never—none of us will ever find stability in that way. We want stability of Sat; we want a simple approach to peace, to God. But if the mind is driving this car, it is always going to lead to more and more instability. And then the mind will say, 'Because it is because of the outside. You listen to him also, you listen to him also, you listen to that also.' See? So now it will say you're messing up your spirituality, but it is not like that at all. All that speak from the heart are speaking in the voice of the heart, and the heart cannot really misguide us, you see. So you must not worry about that. What you must do is just 'don't know.' Allow it to unfold from your heart, and if it is not unfolding from the heart, then just be patient and courageous. Just be patient. 'I don't know' is not your enemy. It is false knowledge which is your enemy, yes.

And this is very important for everyone in Satsang because we keep rushing to knowing, knowing, knowing, and creating a road map for ourselves. But then the mind has the steering wheel. So it's fine, you don't know. It's fine. And it's not like conceptual knowing, no, it's not that. The mind says, 'I don't know.' It's not that, or it's not that. But if there was to be a conceptual knowing, then that is the best one. Okay? Yeah, yes, that. Because the mind hates that, no? It loves pride; it hates this 'I don't know.' Yes, because the idea of being foolish and humility seems very, very disturbing to the mind. 'That I've been in Satsang so long, I have been in spirituality even longer, and after that, after all these years, what am I saying? I don't know.' See, he doesn't like it. It wants to grab onto knowing. So if it is going to be conceptual, then keep this as your only conceptual knowing.

Yes. I'm trying not to say it's... it's like asking, just letting all thoughts come and go. Like another thought is coming, just like making... they're like, yeah, yeah, like that in the heart. Keep like that in the heart, but don't translate it into anything that you know about, like what you have to do. Even in allowing all thoughts to come and go, which is true, but for the moment, for the present exercise, just let it all happen naturally. Don't make it into a way in your head. Don't make it into a strategy in your head.

Um, yeah. I just felt to follow Mani in this contemplation of what is to be really trusting the heart. Because I have an experience of this, but I felt also maybe to watch again with you when you say what it is to be intuitive and what are the... I'm not a memory man, you know. It is there sometimes, then it goes. It is inside. But I feel because it's the biggest challenge for many of us. Yeah, we know so much what it is not, and the shadow of what it is not is so big that it actually takes the whole mind. And the knowing of what it is not is not the flow itself, you know.

So yeah, I must probably broaden a little bit because I just dived like this and not prepared anything. Just, you know, I've been dismissing lots of things which are so clearly from the past, from the reading I've been inheriting of what is to be a good one in this world and serving God or serving... it was not about serving God but serving humanity at least, yeah. And these, all these things, there are traces of it naturally because it's memory and also my practice. Okay, at the moment I'm not so much troubled with all this stuff. I'm kind of retired, but I never decided not to do anything. I just don't do so much. Yet I'm a lot open to many beings and they share with me, and that's fine. I'm a lot inside Satsang, as you know. But this broad question, how is it to trust the heart, remains always, no? And I know we cannot answer it theoretically. Yeah, even if we can watch together the three ways we can test ourselves about being intuitive or not, but generally speaking, intuitively speaking, how is it we can... there's no 'how.' How to love? There's no 'how' to love. I know that, you know. Yet just sharing the way I'm doing now is for me necessary and I love to do that. So I'm happy already just with you, openly in the now and not theoretically so to say. Just, you know, this is a bit like if somebody would ask, 'How is it to be in the water?' How to describe this? Yeah, I just stop here.

Very good. It's very... yes, you're right that we may give some pointers to it. We may point to the presence of an unconditional love, we may point to the absence of a grasping, but really, can the pointers really show us? Not really. It has to be a deeper unfolding, you see. At least, like you said actually very beautifully, it tells us what not to do. Don't grasp. Don't be in a rush, you see? Because the grasping and rushing are clearly mental signs of mental pushing, mental forcing narratives. But just to be patient, just to be in the presence of her love. But the best part is that all these things that we don't know how to do, God knows very well how to do. God knows very well how to do. So in His hands we are safe. In His will we can trust. So although we may not know how this whole inner unfolding happens, He knows very well every step of the way. And to trust, to trust the Holy Spirit within, to trust this God's presence, God's light within—this is probably the only way we can point to.

I receive that. Yeah, you know, I thank you so much. Thank you. This is very direct and it's just opening this what feeling I have, what I'm so to say learning. Like each of us, I'm addicted to pleasures, to the known, and so your response just shows me, points right into the place where I'm at at the moment so much. And it's slow, but thanks to you and your Satsang, it's going into the direction of recognizing, sensing really, the quality of trust, of faith, as something which has nothing to do with pleasure. And it is really some dissolution of any expectation. But I guess that was the reason for my question, because I have to, so to say, to focus—it's not focusing, it's actually this de-focusing—but let appear the substratum of everything. And it's joyful in itself, even if it's a bit difficult, but it's joyful in itself because it is just letting go of the grasping itself. And this is really... yeah, I'm happy to share this with you today. This trust, what is trust? That is what is not from the mind. The mind's trust is not the trust we are talking about. It can only just be invoked. Thank you. Oh, thank you. I'm grateful. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.