The Self Never Comes and Goes, but Every Perception Comes and Goes - 8th March 2021

So, if I give you a tool like a question like: are you aware now? Are you aware now? Yes. How do you confirm that? Is it perception? It's too much peer pressure in wisdom! To be honest, awareness is not a perception. You don't perceive it. Are you just thinking you're aware? So, how do you make that discovery, isn't it? But it fulfills the criteria, no? The two criteria. Yeah, as you're saying, it happens. Something happens. It happened? No. If it didn't happen, then why would you all come here? So, the discovery is very simple, you see. Are you aware now? Yes. What did you see? Nothing. Huh? Then how do you say yes? Is there a blue cat sitting next to me? No. Then why do you say no? You did not see it. In the same way, you did not see awareness, but you say yes. This is the uniqueness of self-discovery, and it is as simple as that, you see.

Now I'll come to the—that's it, that's satsang. Okay, the problem is: what do we want from it? Now we discovered that this awareness, you see, is the reality of our everything. I want to say existence, but beyond even existing. But—and that is the main point—which is that the thing that we want to use it for, we cannot use it for, whatever the thing may be, you see. Because that is what I call spiritual selfishness, you see, that we wanted what we wanted in the world. So, we chased money and relationships and body and all of these things, you see. Then we were told, 'Oh, but there's an easier way to get this,' you see, and you're realizing it's not that easy conceptually at least. 'Just find yourself, oh, go to God, discover your divine presence and you will get all happiness, all peace, all joy, everything you wanted.' So, somewhere in our mind we thought, 'Ah, this is very good. I don't have to do all that hard work. I can get whatever I wanted through this.' But the thing is, we don't give this discovery as much time as we give a pizza. You place a Swiggy order or you call Domino's, how much are you willing to wait? Give it a chance. Don't rush to decide for, don't rush to complain, don't rush to see about that. Don't pick up desire, because desire is one of the main legs of the ego, no? I speak of the 3D ego, most of you heard it: duality, doership, desire are the three Ds that make up the ego.

Now your mind will complain and it will say, 'When I ask am I aware now, nothing has actually really happened to me because I'm not really having the self-discovery. It is only because everybody is nodding and saying yes, yes, yes, that I have to go along.' It will just tell you that you are faking it. But where you make that discovery from, in your heart, in your intuitive insight, there is no doubt about it. So, don't go to your mind for the freedom certificate, to get acceptance or approval from this mind to say, 'Yes, yes, you finally found it, Guruji.' No, it's not going to do that. Forget what—so most of the time is managing the 'but'. Dealing with the resistance of wanting something out of this discovery. But the discovery has nothing for the non-existent, meaning the one who wanted something out of it doesn't even exist, and you are realizing, you are recognizing that you are nothing other than this awareness itself.

So, that's the basic fundamental. And if you really heard me, then you cannot struggle with this anymore. The ways to struggle are: what if I tell you there are some yellow-colored marbles in that room? Can you find them? Then you rely on your perception to go over there and look and look, and you'll get frustrated after a while. I'll say, 'No, no, they are there, you see. Look inside the room, they are there.' You looked and you looked and you can't find them. In the same way, you've been told, 'Look inside you, you will find the Self,' and you've looked and looked and looked, and many times you had byproducts. You had some chakra, you had some energy moving, you had some experience of peace, some bliss, something like that, and you feel like, 'Okay, that sounds like the Self.' But it is not, is it? It is not a perceptual discovery. The other thing you could be is you try to solve it like a mathematical thing—just can't find it that way. Any other way to struggle? If you decided, 'I'm going to struggle today,' how would you do it? Yeah, but in the realm of perception or thought, isn't it? Now, besides the realm of perception or thought, is there a way to struggle?

So, where is the room for spiritual struggling? What about now? And we've had this conversation many times. The best gift you can give yourself for those moments, for the past moments as well as your future moments, is to come to this simple discovery now, isn't it? Your attempt to solve it for previous Amrita or future is not going to make it helpful. It is only going to take you away from what is like a palpable discovery right now. So, while you're here, forget that there is such a thing as the past and forget that there is such a thing as the future, because actually there isn't. Not for you at least—when I mean you, at least I mean for your truth, there is no such thing as past or future. It is only mental speculation, and by your thinking about past and future, you are not helping anything, definitely not yourself. This is the crux of all spirituality.

Now, this awareness, is it still confusing? No? Very good crowd. For those for whom it may seem a bit strange, is this really awareness? Find out what is aware of your being. What is aware of your being? And if being is confusing, try to not be. Try to—don't like—try to not exist. Being is clear? So, I see bulldogs. That which is aware of being is clear? That we can't help. You can't have a conversation with me unless I'm there. Now, what are we doing here? Okay, let's take a question online then. You have Edward. Hi, hello.

I actually don't know how to describe my question, but it comes up often and then I really cannot put it into words, so I'll try my best. Yes. So, sometimes I feel like we're coming to this recognition too, that I'm this awareness, everything is complete and no desire and so on. But also it seems like somehow mixed, this reality with let's say non-reality. But it also feels true that this awareness wants specific things in life, you know, like really want, and I really would like this way and not this way, and like this and not like that. And then I'm checking, like, yes, I'm here, everything is fine, but yet sometimes requirements are high as well, you know? And just want to check, is it something like real mixed with some delusion, like let's say desire and like worldly things, or is it just this is how it's supposed to be?

Yeah, so let's try a live exercise. So, right now—and there is no rush, you can take your time—right now, just remain in that space where what you are is apparent. Like when I ask you the question, 'Are you aware now?' That space where it is apparent, 'Yes, I'm aware.' This is not necessarily the words of it, but the recognition of it. Now, what is needed for us to want or resist is to believe in the force which comes up. And there is no problem with the thought in itself. So, that is quick. That is quick because you've done the exercise many times in one way or the other. That without a notion arising and believed in, there is no such thing as want or resistance, desire or aversion. None of that is a possibility. So, now the question is that this arising, is that also not consciousness? Is it? Yes. Is it? Yes, it is consciousness, you see. But the only trouble seeming—

To resist is to believe in the force which comes up, and there is no problem with the thought in itself. So that is quick, that is quick because you've done the exercise many times in one way or the other: that without a notion arising and being believed in, there is no such thing as want or resistance, desire or aversion. None of that is a possibility. So now the question is: that this arising, is that also not consciousness? Yes, it is consciousness, you see. But the only trouble, the seeming trouble with this aspect of consciousness, is what it represents us to be. The representation of our self as a body-mind, or at least some sort of limitation, is inherent in mental notions.

So it is not that the thoughts themselves are something other than consciousness, or the mind itself is something other than consciousness. Consciousness is all there is. So one aspect of all there is, is a false representation of what you are. So that is the trouble with desire. It is not, 'Oh, I want all of this.' Consciousness is will, and in a way we can say consciousness wants this to happen and that is why it is happening. At least conceptually we can say things like that. But the problem is not in the want in itself; it is what we take ourselves to be.

In the sense that you're just being, you're just fine. There's no trouble; everything is always functioning just perfectly fine. Then what happens? An idea comes, and the idea can sound very innocent: 'I want a nice orange.' I want a nice orange—nothing wrong. I want to eat a nice orange—nothing wrong with the idea, is it? But how does it represent you? It says, 'I am this body-mind.' So the minute that notion is brought into, then there is an inherent duality in that idea: that I am only, among all this realm of perception, I am only this set of perceptions. In a simple statement like, 'I want to eat tomorrow'—not that, we'll come to that.

Or sometimes I like taking this example which sounds even more harmless, like 'The coconut is green.' Now you may say, where is the identity in there? You see, 'The coconut is green' is fine. But what happens very quickly, if you notice your stream of hormones, is that the coconut is green, but it doesn't stop there. You say, 'I had a green coconut, it was very sweet.' You see, the 'I' identity is very quickly presented as, again, this one in time and space, again this body-mind. And quickly we're into that first 'D', which is the duality. So I have made myself—consciousness, I, consciousness—I have made myself into believing myself to be just this among all the perceptions that are apparent. Nothing in the perception is saying you're just that. It is only the messaging from the mind, whether the mind seems to be here or coming from another mouth, whichever way the mind is operating.

Now once we have bought into this idea of our limitation, then what happens is that there is a pull and push. You see, the push is that somewhere we realize that I'm not just this, I'm not this small. You see, that's why we feel like, 'I have to complete myself in some way.' Complete myself. And that need to complete myself in some way is what we call desire. 'If I only had this, then I would be more complete. If I only had this relationship, then he would complete me or she would complete me. If I had this house, then I would be better off. If I had this car...' whatever the desire. But if you did not take yourself to be this limited object, so that duality had not come, then this desire would have no legs to stand on, you see.

So first that representation is there, and once you have a desire—'I want this' or 'I want to make sure this never comes' (whether we say desire or aversion, either way)—then the mind will present you ideas of what you can do about it. So that is the third 'D', which is the devotion. So once we take ourselves to be this limited object, then the doorway to desire and doership is quite open. But inherently in our pure perception, no duality is created. You could look at anything, you see, and you don't make yourself a 'me'. So it's not a question of perception. You could even look at any thought that is arising; attention can go to any thought also. But without identification or belief in that thought, you are not here taking yourself to be a separate entity.

So now what happens is—and we are now going to answer what everybody's asking—is that once you're open and empty and you're not taking yourself to be this individualized consciousness, consciousness is not taking itself to be individualized in any way. The play of life still seems to continue, is it? 'I want spaghetti bolognese, I want this shirt, I like a red color shirt.' No, you see, so that play of life can still continue, but there's a big difference. You see, the big difference is that it is just very light, light and easy. And how do you know it's light and easy? If you don't get the red shirt and spaghetti bolognese, you are not going to cry about it and you're not going to suffer from the idea of not having it.

You see, even though you open up and you go to a restaurant, you're not going to tell the waiter, 'Oh, I am just pure consciousness, awareness manifesting as pure consciousness, how dare you ask me what I want to eat?' You're going to say, 'I'd like a pasta' or something. And that naturalness can continue in life. So when the Zen said, 'Before enlightenment: chopping wood, fetching water; after enlightenment: chopping wood, fetching water,' this is what we were talking about. But something has changed, which is that identification—and therefore the ability for having that or not having that to cause suffering or resistance—is not there. In the naturalness of day-to-day existence, those things can still continue to play out, but there's a big difference, which is that if they don't play out according to what your mouth said, then it's not like, 'Oh, what's happening to my life?' And this suffering aspect of our day-to-day existence is not there.

Again, I feel for me what is now coming specifically to talk about is women, probably because of relationship. Yeah, relationship, women. And this is where it comes, you know, like sometimes I feel like demanding thoughts are coming, like 'I really would like my woman to be like this.' I'm not like that, and because I'm going to have to spend my whole life with her, whereas things I can just buy and replace. And this is what I tend to do, you know, I just buy something, if I don't like it I'm just going to replace it. But with a woman it's a little bit different, you cannot really do that. And these thoughts are still coming, you know, like if it comes about my phone I just change it, you know, I don't worry about it. But when it comes to a woman it comes and then you feel like, so how does it work? Or is it just you have to kind of just promise for forever no matter what thoughts are coming in the future? It's difficult in that case, probably this is how I can specify the most.

Yeah, I don't know if you can say just woman, it could be like a male best friend also, no?

Yeah, but it's also easier with a best friend. You just don't see him for a while and then you meet and then you feel great again.

This special relationship type thing is obviously a big, big, big aspect of suffering in the human condition. And it's not just men with women, but also women with men, and men with men, and women in whatever combinations that are possible. So yes, it is something that is deeply ingrained into our identity. And I say this often, that many times my wife and I have this conversation, that the openness and emptiness seems to come last in these special relationships. It seems to come last in these moments especially. So it's very much a part of the human condition. But as we're getting more and more open, as we're getting more and more empty, there is bound to be more and more spaciousness even in these special relationships.

So okay, yeah, and I feel just to say that so far what I came up with as a conclusion is just to... yeah. I mean definitely I noticed that when I'm identifying, usually it comes up identification more often when I'm with another person, especially a woman, because I kind of jump into character. You know, like where is it coming from, just all of this character? Even though it's in us, it's not bad, but it's just character still and actually tires me a little bit. So, but I know it's also it will go away because it's being very visible, you know. And the less character there is, I feel maybe it is going to be less demand as well, you know, how things should go and what I would like.

So, Master Bankei said all things are perfectly resolved in the unborn. Did you not say all things except relationship?

Yeah, I feel that as well. It's just it comes quite often and the feeling, 'Wow, everything was great until somebody comes into my life.' And you know, it feels like maybe I should just be alone because it feels so great. But there are little desires, you know, which are ingrained, you know, to have children and stuff. And I'm feeling okay, just going to have to follow this desire because it's much easier than rather to push them away. And then these extra, extra let's say issues come up with that.

One tip I have for you and everyone is that this intuitive space—let's call it that, it's not really a space but let's call it that for a moment—you see, that intuitive space can be trusted to run this worldly life as well as to help us recognize our own source. So consciousness is recognizing what consciousness itself is made up of and where it comes from intuitively. And intuitively whatever you need is available to you, even in the worldly expression, in the worldly manifest form of consciousness. So why I'm saying that is because many times we feel that, 'No, no, for this situation I have to use my mind.' But your intuition will be able to guide you.

At the moment for me, intuition feels like whatever decision I make, there is no tension in the body. Like if I come to this option, okay, there is no tension, I'm going to choose this. Mostly like this.

That's fine, it sounds okay. This last time we had this detailed conversation about this, how to tell mind from intuition. I'm sure there's a transcript also by now, so we can refer to that if there's ever any confusion, or I can talk about it soon again. I just spoke about it, but what I think I remember...

Yeah, and it's just probably I feel like with any option I will make in life, it's not going to be so much suffering. I will just get... but something is still trying to make, let's say, best choices, yeah. So there is less suffering on the other side of the person for in the future.

And here, you know, something is a little bit like... the best news about God is that you could have made the worst choices, all mindy choices, but in the instant you meet God, all is resolved. It's not an invitation to try this out, like I'm not saying make a hundred terrible mental choices because you can always go to God, you know? It doesn't work that way. But the power of intuition, the power of intuitive guidance, is that it can clear everything up. In fact, it is to be more accurate: it can show you how nothing is a problem.

Yes, thank you. It's very clarifying, even though as I said there wasn't specific, but some things where I have to be spoken out and it's helping me and supporting. I feel it already, very great.

I'll be happy to hear from you.

Question: How important is perfect physical health and psychological health for realizing the truth? Because I just observed in the so-called waking state, I do have hearing loss. So when I have a dream, most of the time I have the same problem in the dream. Could it be that the senses of waking state and dream state are same, or we identify with our physical disability? Number two, for the past three years I have...

And supporting, I feel it already. Very great. I'll be happy to hear from you. Question: How important is perfect physical health and psychological health for realizing the truth? Because I just observed in the so-called waking state, I do have hearing loss. So when I have a dream, most of the time I have the same problem in the dream. So could it be that the senses of waking state and dream state are same, or we identify with our physical disability? Number two: for the past three years, I have certain flashbacks in my dream of some childhood abuse. Now in the waking state, there is no bitterness and this is all peace, but it's still coming up in the dream. So had these experiences, both physical and mental, not happened, would it have been easier to realize the truth? And people with these experiences, are they less likely to realize the truth?

So on the first question, you see, this word 'perfect' is very confusing. And you say perfect physical and psychological health; I don't know if there's such a thing. But let's look at that, because one perspective is that everything is always perfect, you see. And I resist saying that because I just like to say that everything is what it is, because the mind can have an idea of perfect meaning optimum or something like that, you see. Now, nothing is ever optimum according to the mind, never. It may have a moment where it says 'this is so perfect, so good,' but a few moments later it'll say, 'No, no, you know, a little more red, a little more something, only if it was so-so.' In the realm of the mind, the notion of perfect is just a tool that it uses to beat us up by dangling a carrot sometimes, by telling us that oh, it was there and you lost it, sometimes in various ways or techniques that it uses in its sneaky ways, you see. You can use the notion of perfect in a very tricky view.

The other thing I would say is that the acceptance of what is as what is, you see, as what is. And for some, it makes it sound like everything what it is is perfect as it is, you see. Within that representation, there is no resistance to what is. There is no resistance. But for me, I would say better we lose the notion of perfect itself, because even in the second representation, there is a potential for it to hold on to something from the past or this kind of emotions. So, having said all of that, nothing is a prerequisite to your spiritual discovery of your true self. Nothing is a prerequisite.

And in our history and traditions, I'm sure all over the world, there have been many examples of sages, like Ashtavakra being one of them, who had, you know, curvatures in eight parts of his body—eight wakaras. And yet he was one of the greatest sages to have walked this world. So definitely, it is not a prerequisite. The mental, the psychological part of it is that as we learn to remain in the openness and the emptiness, then we find that a lot of the afflictions, psychological afflictions which are there, don't seem to be as strong or as heavy. But don't make that the goal, because then that goal itself will be used to trouble you. So the goal is just the Self or God or whatever attracted you to this in your heart. Keep that itself as the goal and allow the psychological cleanup of the psychological openness and spaciousness to be a byproduct of it.

So that is the first aspect. The second you said was about—what is it about the dream? Yes. So my question is, if I am taking your pointers to the heart and following them and identifying as awareness, shouldn't that psychological stuff be purged completely and fast? So if it is not, maybe I am doing something wrong.

Yeah, but that psychological stuff has been purged is still psychological stuff, you see. So allow that also to get purged, you see. So it is the mind itself which says mind has to go. And we spoke about this last time as well, where we said that the mind itself will keep saying, 'Where is the dissolution of the mind?' you see. So that creates a new psychological conditioning that all psychological conditioning must go. That's why my pointing of truth for truth is very helpful, you see. The truth for truth says you're not so concerned about what else is happening, just truth, because it is worth it for itself, you see, because it is true. So that is what I would point to at this point.

And the second part about being—there was one about noticing that you have the same sort of things that you experience in this waking state seem to transfer into the dream state. That can happen. In my experience, many times Ananta is there in the dream; many times it's a different somebody there, like man, woman. A few rare times it's not even man, woman; it's some other realm only, it seems like some strange sort of thing. So no need to get so much into that. All possibilities are possible and all possibilities can show up here, and that is fine. So allow this to be very natural, you see, whatever the process is, whatever has to show up. Many times you'll notice that a lot of unresolved things seem to get resolved in the dream state. If there's a lot of anger against someone, pent-up anger, and then someone, you see yourself just giving it to them in the dream state, you know, just getting the anger out, and it seems like you wake up much lighter and things. But anyway, don't try to like heal yourself from all of these things based on any of that. You stay with the truth in your heart and allow all this functioning of consciousness to take care of itself, and you will find that that is fine.

Another thing which really helped me was when you said the preferences can continue but you might not have an identification, because I saw a video of Papaji and he was diabetic and he was having a Coca-Cola. So it is not unheard of for sages to make the strangest lifestyle choices.

The good thing is that we don't have to rationalize their lifestyle choices, like we cannot even start to understand any of that. Okay, Maria and then Lawrence.

Hello, thank you. I just wanted to speak about something that happens when I try to confirm. Yes. And what happens is that I keep getting identified again and again and again, it seems, with the one that wants to get out of it and with all the suffering state. And so just to make sure I understood correctly, what is it that you're trying to confirm? That you are the Self?

Yeah, like that I'm not—that I'm not what's appearing and disappearing and none of that, not the one looking for it even.

Yes, yes, yes. And how do you try to confirm that?

By leaving all the—but bringing my attention back to the silence, not even no more by like not being—not giving so much attention to all the thoughts and ideas and fears and—

Now, the trying to control attention way to do it is a very popular way to do it. Here, I was very unsuccessful with that. Yeah, and maybe attention—I did not feel like I have such a strong hold over attention because the more I try to, like Maharaj said, 'just keep your attention on the sense of being,' and his master told him that and he said, 'I only had to do that for three years and I was free.' And I remember reading that and saying, 'Three years? I can't keep it there for three minutes. How to keep it for three years?'

So, and that is why most of my pointing and advice comes from the other key which you need to unlock identity, which is the aspect of belief. So you need both attention and belief to take yourself to be limited. To take yourself to be limited or to take yourself to be the 'me' or the person, you need both, isn't it? Like I can say, 'Don't think of a pink elephant,' the classic example, no? 'Don't bring any attention to pink elephant,' and naturally for most of us, a pink elephant will start to show up. The more we try to resist it, the more—no, don't think of banana, banana is there. So, but it's easier to not take ourselves to be a pink elephant or a banana.

So if I say, 'Don't take yourself to be that which attention is showing you,' then that seems to me to be a simpler way to play. And yet for you, if it is natural to divest your attention from thoughts and to be able to keep it in the sense of being or to stabilize it in a mantra or something like that, whatever you may be trying to do with your attention, then if it is natural to you, then that is fine as well. Because identification is not possible unless you bring attention to a thought first, you see. But I always found the attention game a bit difficult, you see. I found surrender or letting go to be much easier.

So that's why I always point to your belief in what the thought is saying, not that the thought should not appear. Because controlling attention means the thought should not appear; unless your attention is on it, it cannot appear, isn't it? Only through attention do we perceive. Perception and attention are part of the same play. But I found it here very easy to not take myself to be what the thoughts were presenting me to be, rather than try to not think or try to push thoughts away.

It just seems to come so quickly, you know, like with this thought of the one being the one suffering. It just—it's just so—it's immediately, it feels like it's me. And even though there is kind—there's like a knowing that it can't be me, it just—it doesn't have to—the power like it—

Okay, I have some advice for you on that one. Because over the years I met many who say, 'But there is no time to believe or not believe,' you see. 'That the thought comes and immediately I am identified with the thought.' That is a very common complaint, you see. But it is not with all thought. If the thought came to you and said, 'Oh, you have to lift a hundred kgs today,' you see, like a power lifter or a bodybuilder or something, then you may not identify with it immediately. You may just say, 'Oh, what a strange thought,' let it go. But if a thought comes about something that you are identified with or you have an interest in, you see, then that seems to get believed faster. So those are the ones which seem to exert more magnetism on our belief, you see.

So what you could do is—is there a recurring theme of thoughts which seem to get your belief often? Yeah, like 'I'm not good enough, I can't do it, I can't get out of it, it will never work,' this kind of thing. Yes, yes. So this unworthy sort of animation. Yes, yes. Spiritual seeker is a very popular thought construct in spirituality. So what you could do with this is that this particular theme you can inquire into, you see. You can inquire into and ask yourself, 'Who is the one who is not worthy?' And the mind will say, 'I know, I know there's nobody like that,' you see. But still inquire, really look. Is there somebody there who is not worthy?

Now, when is the inquiry done? When is the inquiry finished? When the thought arises, if it has become light and laughable, you see, then you are over that and you don't need to inquire into it anymore. That is one tip. If this kind of inquiry doesn't seem natural to you and you are more of a devotional temperament, then you could just say, 'My worthiness or unworthiness is all my Master's program, his problem to deal with.' Just surrendering with your full heart, with your full heart, just surrender. Now, depending on your temperament—and not just temperament, but moment to moment—sometimes you are more open to inquiring, sometimes you're more open to surrendering, you see. Sometimes you can use both, like at different times do the inquiry, at different times just surrendering, and both of these will make that thought lighter and lighter and sooner it will become laughable. So those are the two main, let's call it techniques in our path, isn't it? Self-inquiry and surrender.

So yes, it just feels because that this self-inquiry is not always possible because sometimes it's just kind of making this noise even louder because it's looking for the one who is suffering. It's kind of bringing all these things in for the one who can't find it and can't get it.

And both of these will make that thought lighter and lighter, and sooner it will become laughable. So those are the two main, let's call it techniques, in our path, isn't it? Self-inquiry and surrender.

So yes, it just feels because that this servant inquiry is not always possible because sometimes it's just kind of making this noise even louder because it's looking for the one who is suffering. It's kind of bringing all these things in for the one who can't find it and can't get it. So it's, yeah, if I think that it doesn't seem as easy or natural to inquire sometimes, but yes.

Yeah, okay. And do you feel like you're blessed with some devotion in your heart?

Yes.

Then that's easy. That's easy for those who are blessed with devotion, then to just hand it over at the Master's feet. It's nice. It's a beautiful wave. Yes, very good. Thank you. Okay, we can go to Laurence now. Hello, namaste. You're laughing today.

It's switched from emotional plan to mental plan and it's a bit of a turmoil over here. So, to the point I'm not even sure how to put this. The thing is that there is no seeking anymore. In a way, it's all very clear and yet lately these massive attacks. You said something last time, I really listened to the whole satsang, you said something last time like this word 'deconstruction'. And actually, as we were talking about a dream, I had this dream that I was—I can't remember if it was before or after that—I was in the cab, I couldn't see myself, but there was this car driving and it was going very, very fast and the road would deconstruct. There were massive holes and suddenly no road, and I fell quite softly actually. Anyhow, so I need advice on how to do something with dynamic life in this deconstruction because this is just—

Can we come to that in a moment? Because I want to explore something together with you. Yes, that's part of what you said where you said that there is no seeking now. But now the question is: are you speaking of spiritual seeking or any type of seeking? Because actually there is no difference, and we've spoken about this probably before, that there is no difference between grasping and suffering, you see. Now whether you use the term grasping or seeking, it is not so different. So it is impossible to suffer unless we grasp at something. So are you saying that suffering is like an alien concept for you now, or is it just the particular type of seeking that was there which is not there now?

Oh god, it took a weird turn. No more. Just know that I'm not making any sort of judgment on you. I'm just using this as an opportunity to talk about this thing which could be helpful for all of us. Oh, how to put this? My mind is going blank. Of course, there's no seeking for the Self; this has gone. It's clear it will not be found in any fundamental way or with any perception, attention, whatever. So it has stopped seeking in this way.

Okay, can we pause here? Because this is a very important point and may be helpful for everyone. So it has stopped in this way, which is very important because this was the wrong way to see anyway. That's what we discovered: that it cannot be found as an object, it should not be found in any perception. You see, that is in fact Vedanta 101, isn't it? That perceptions come and go; reality is that which does not come and go. So now, and yet ironically, most seekers are still seeking in that way. They're still trying to find the Self as if it is in an objective, phenomenal way. Now, in the letting go of the seeking in that way, and the letting go of the seeking in the conceptual way, did you feel like in your heart there was some true insight which is apparent or is apparent?

How can I put this? The whole process of identification is clear. The whole unreality of the person is clear. Everything—how do I put that in words? Zero, open, empty, all that is so obvious. There might have been lately all this contemplation and investigation on innocence. What even came here was like in the fairy tale, you know, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, and actually this suddenly appeared as an initiatic tale of how to reach back to innocence, but true innocence. And whenever there are breakthroughs and insights coming, they come through pain, of course. But to discern what true innocence is, or where there was a hidden desire, a hidden identification—all this is really seen.

Okay, so let me ask you one more thing.

So when we say that—I'm wondering whether I haven't put a shape on this innocence thing, because this one is like waiting to receive guidance in a very clear and spontaneous way, and of course it doesn't work. I don't know how to say that. Pause a bit so I can keep up also a little bit.

So when we say that emptiness is clear, openness, zero, emptiness is clear, what are we talking about? How, what do we mean by clear?

Like the true place of seeing is that where—I like this image for open and empty, I like this image of the front door and back door. Anything can come in, and so really truly, and this takes discernment to let everything come, but anything can come in and as long as anything is not grabbed and let out of the back door. Open, empty, and this is so obvious.

And in that conceptual emptiness, you know, in the conceptual emptiness which is allowing everything to come and go, the insight about you yourself becomes apparent, isn't it? Now, would you like to accept that a bit? Can you repeat it?

So I said that in this conceptual emptiness which is allowing all concepts to come and go, we are not hanging on to any perception, using any concept whatsoever, and we're just remaining in this openness, in this emptiness. Your reality becomes apparent to you, isn't it? So that reality—would you like to talk about that reality? Like what becomes apparent to you?

Apparent is a funny word because it's not apparent, but with apparent for a long time so they can be all relating with what you're saying. Let's say obvious. It becomes obvious in the purest—how to say? This openness that I described before is like Presence, right? And beyond that there's this perception—is not even a good word—this awareness, pure awareness, which in the end is now. This is the universal level. It's here and it's in everyone, it's in everything. It's impossible to describe.

So may I provide a little bit more and say: is this a conceptual framework? Whenever it is, it's got to be observed; it cannot be conceptual. Now in that discovery, which is not conceptual, when you see that you are this pure awareness, when it is obvious or apparent that you are this pure awareness, you see, now do you have to take on conceptually a new position before you can suffer?

Yes.

Now is there something which forces you to do that? Can force you to do that? What is powerful enough to make the manifest consciousness itself forced into taking itself to be something conceptual?

The idea I have of what the life of—and how to say that? Only an idea.

Yes. So does any idea in itself have that much power that can force consciousness into belief, make consciousness hostage through it?

The thing that catches me most often really is something I heard Guruji say very often, which is—and the thing that touches most here is—to be so absorbed in Him, to die in Him while alive so that He only shines. And this is—there's so much yearning for that.

Yeah, I can see it's like a yearning. So it makes two, but it is so present here.

Yeah, and in the life, dynamic life as lived here where, you know, satsang here is very often through all the beautiful sangha, mala songs, the records, and often words will come out like that. But wherever you go, be the heart of that place and whatever—but sorry, just pause for a moment.

Now in the last two minutes, in this representation, who is the central protagonist? The perfect spiritual one, spreading love, shining. This one is very powerful. Not that powerful. You can hand it away. It's going to be difficult because this one is quite beautiful and it's got a bit—what is the deal now? We give to the Master only the things which are not beautiful? A little bad, keep the good? It's a big gift. This one—I told another child the other day that many times what we take to be healthy and beautiful is the biggest oppressor that we have.

Yeah, yeah. The servant here, it's going to be—yeah, yeah, yeah, the one who serves. But there is the mean one as well, because lately it's been caught by, in the spiritual way, and of the suddenly understanding that desire means duality. Then it's as though desires have been like—there has been, how to say, it's not a real surrender of desires. It's no, no, no desires. And so whenever—so basically all spontaneity has been killed as well in this one, and it causes great sadness.

Well, okay. The good news is that this one doesn't exist. So we don't need to worry so much about that. And in pure being, which is what naturally is present in every moment, spontaneity is just a very natural aspect of that. So nothing true has ever been taken away, you see. Only conceptually we have these kind of things. So just let go of all ideas in terms of, especially with spiritual ideas, because we feel like, 'But that is very close to my heart, that is very close to my heart, how can I give that away? No, no, I want all the bad stuff taken away so that then this one can live quite well by itself.' But this one has got so many in trouble. So I want you to avoid that review for yourself and just hand over everything, especially with the ideas that you think are too beautiful and too wonderful to give away. Please hand them over. Nothing of value you will lose. It is just the chains around you dressed up as flowers or something. Don't make any references about yourself except lightly, lightly, just conversationally. If you take any reference of the 'I' to be true, then it is just a manifestation of the 'I' thought, you see. And as long as the 'I' thought is believed in, then freedom seems to be lost.

I can see it's also an expectation of a one that I would become, even if it's not here now.

So it's not now. What you discover yourself to be has no becoming. That's it. Time is a notion for the made-up one, not for the reality of you. So open and empty which can get us somewhere is not open and empty, or can amplify something that we like about ourselves is not open and empty. It's just truly open and empty. All representations, all references, everything comes and goes. And I might say something without wanting to sound harsh at all, just out of full love in my heart. Don't get enamored with any representation you have made about yourself.

It's not harsh. Say it more harshly because I can feel you want to say something.

But no, no, it's fine. I feel like that message is heard there. It's like I'm saying—okay, let me see if more blunt: you don't fall in love with any idea you come up with about yourself. This is the main one actually, the one being so open and empty that it flows through very freely, but it becomes a representation of innocence. A little more open and empty than that. Sorry, a little more open and empty than that.

Yes, yes, much more. But then it feels—yes.

What is the fear? There has to be—it is not always love. Mostly when we are enamored with the representation and in that getting, that liking that representation, usually is a decoy for some fear that we have somewhere lurking. So if you let go of every representation of your—

It flows through very freely, but it becomes a representation of innocence—a little more open and empty than that. Sorry, a little more open and empty than that. Yes, yes, much more. But then it feels... yes, what is the fear? There has to be. It is not always love. Mostly, when we are enamored with the representation, and in that getting, that liking that representation usually is a decoy for some fear that we have somewhere lurking.

So if you let go of every representation of yourself, what will happen? What is the worst case? What will you have to lose that is valuable? Nothing.

This is not where really I think... and suddenly wondering whether this that wasn't seen, this representation of the perfect one, was not actually hiding a representation that could not be faced, but the very poor one. I'm not sure if it's clear what I'm saying. It's as though this imagine... yes, it's almost like a facade to hide something else. To hide the belief in some... that this one is really not nothing. The fear that actually I could be very bad at this, you see? So we can make a facade which is like the perfect spiritual one.

But we don't really need to analyze it. It's not a fear; it's a belief and a strong, strong belief that this one is not at all that. So it would like to be like that, and through the spiritual path, it's gonna become like that. That's what I'm suddenly seeing.

Very good, very good. Very well spotted.

And yes, yes, yes. But the point is not to beat yourself up in any way because of this. The point is to let both representations go, yeah, and spot them whenever they come. Very good, very good. Don't take on anything from this conversation to mean something about me, about the meaning, because the mind will invite you to make judgments about yourself on the basis of this conversation. Now you spotted something beautifully, and they are noticed and they can be let go of. That's it. It's not to make a sculpture out of those representations.

So in this phase of deconstruction, what would the advice be? Because truly dynamic life is in such a hold, in a way at hold and on hold.

Yes, we keep interrupting you because it's coming up strongly to save you. Even the distinction of dynamic life and life, this is just representation. That's another separation, right? It creates these pretends. Like once you bind to the notion of an idea of a dynamic life and you buy into that, then it gives you questions about, 'So how do I deal with...' basically another primitive way of saying, 'What do I do?' you see? Exactly. So it tries to pull the doer out of you again. Make you into, 'Oh, because there is dynamic life, how do I deal with that? What do I do with that?' So just don't buy into that whole construct. What do you mean dynamic life? Not dynamic life. Forget about it, yeah.

The question about the doer and 'How do I deal with decisions?' really pushes.

Always, always, always. The doer is probably the strongest constant because even when you discover that there is no me—many times in Satsang we have this discovery, so many of us have had this discovery—and what is the first question you ask after that? 'Father, this is so good, I see there is no me. What do I do now?' The idea of doership is so deeply ingrained. We feel like I still have to deal with that. So then remain with this, with always, 'What do I do?' Yes, it is so full. It's fun to spot. It can come in the garb of, you know, just a humble question: 'So should I just remain with this now?' And we just spoke about that. I know, but this one I haven't let go yet. I give it to you as well, this one.

Okay, thank you. Thank you.

Okay, can come and then we go to the chat.

Hello, hello my dear. This is going to be another dark episode of Game of Thrones. I don't know, I just had such a feeling to raise my hand, like no question, nothing. But as soon as I raised it, the body started to shake and all the like in the chest... those statements, 'I don't know you.' And somehow hearing the Satsang today, everything feels so far away. It is the opposite of last time. Last time you came and said everything today was just hitting home, but I'm saying the same stuff basically.

No, in a sense that no, that is not small. It's so, so far that it's like, I don't know, it doesn't matter, doesn't apply somehow. In that it's not applicable at the moment for what you're going through, is it like that?

Yeah, like the whole thing, the world, I don't...

You better ask me something. What are you going through right now? Is it what you would call suffering or no?

Not at all.

If you were to describe your inner spaciousness, would it be open and empty or how would I...

It doesn't apply somehow even.

Very good, very good. Sometimes it can happen that, you know, our face and our body can seem to be on another channel, but inwardly we are on another channel which is completely fine. So would you say that there is any trouble of any sort?

No, no, no, no. Just like such a... there's nothing. Just with the feeling I have to raise my hand. I don't know why. And as soon as I raised it, all the sensations in the body, shaking...

And that's okay. Does it convey that the body shaking and the sensations, does it have some meaning that is bad or something?

No, that's good.

Your being, infinite space... is there some message in these tears or just flowing?

No, no, just...

What's a good TV show these days?

Nothing, but nothing that stood out actually. Everything is so boring, I can't force myself.

One show that I feel like has been the best show for many years is Ted Lasso. Did you see that? Ted Lasso.

Which one?

Ted Lasso. Like the cowboy has... Ted Lasso. If you could type it. I just remember this morning I was so frustrated about some things and just... it doesn't matter. My mom said, 'Oh, Ananta must be so embarrassed.' I enjoy this kind of humor very much actually, it was quite, quite good. Just remember not to either make meaning or meaninglessness out of anything, especially things which are just pure perception. All my walnut blessings. Okay, Prince. Prince Om Shiva Prince has been waiting since last time, so he can come first. And then... is this still the hospital or you are you're discharged now?

I was discharged. I am in home. Inaudible. Very good. I remember that you wanted to sing also, and at the end of Satsang just remind me that I have some question, Father. Like sometimes I properly understand, I feel like this is job you touch take a leota, but sometimes I'm so aggressive, angry. Why this happen? Why that happened in with me? I did not found any answer on my business. This all business is gonna become angry, angry.

Yes, I can tell you that among all the mental notions, the notion of 'why' is one of the most troublesome in the world, you see? So instead of 'why,' try to replace 'why' with 'who.' It is only one alphabet change, yeah. But the mind loves 'why, why, why, why,' especially 'why me?' Why does this happen to me? Why, why? And it has no answer to this one. Like the fundamental 'why' is 'why do we exist?' and nobody knows. So this is like the primal frustration of the mind, that it doesn't have any reason for anything. So it keeps poking us with this 'why, why, why?' Now if you replace this 'why' question with the 'who' question, which means not 'why me?' but 'who is the me? Who is this me?' then you will find that this kind of frustration using the notion of 'why' will start to reduce.

Like Father, I have many time realize, I understand what is this, what is that. I am following, listening always, understanding. But sometimes I just keep out on my mind everything is this, this is the life, that is the life. I've just some other frustrations are coming on mind, something happen on like this, like that. And I feel if it's a really not good, but someone everything like this happening minds mentalness but it's that...

See, most people will not realize that they are being oppressed by the mind, you see? So the first step in spirituality and a very important step is to see that this mind is representing us as an ego, as a person, you see, and is troubling us with these representations. So already what is happening is that you are noticing this so clearly now that it is very auspicious, you see? It is very auspicious. That means that already there is some distance between you and your mind. For most people, it seems like the mind is them only, you see? If you talk to your friends about this, they will say, 'What are you talking about? It is me only talking these words. What do you mean my mind?' you see? So the identity is so deeply ingrained that it is also grace that you have come this far and you now notice that it is just your mind which is speaking these words. And of course, sometimes you buy into these words and many other times you don't buy into those words, you see? So it is very good. In fact, for most... like there are some who have been with me seven, eight years now and they still come to Satsang because it is still the mind which can get believed in sometimes. So because we have nurtured this mind for so long with our belief, to let go of it sometimes seems to take some time. But the best you can do is to be open and empty in this moment. Just let every concept come and go in this moment. Experience your living presence in your heart, you see? That is God's presence, that is the presence of the Satguru itself. Just be with that. And the moments where you're frustrated, you're frustrated—forget about it. Don't try to fix that. But the moments that you're not frustrated, don't think about those moments where you were frustrated, you see? You be with God then. Otherwise, the mind has double trick, no? First it makes us so we are frustrated, then it makes us think about the moment when we were frustrated where we could just be open and empty and just be with God. In those moments, even those we are getting worried about, 'Why do we get frustrated?' you see? So to start with, when frustration is there, the mind is too strong, it's fine, don't worry about that. When the mind is not so strong, at least those moments you spend with God.

Could be many thing in this 2000... start on the 2020 many tragedies are happened with me. I was... my sister born some born the daughter, she is expired three months. I spent premature three months she is in a hospital. I every night stay there, every night for worry about only. And after one month she is just in us home and she gone like die. And next what happened, after seven years, seven years struggling in my profession, makeup artist, hair stylist, and I have so much dream to open my salon. In 2019 I opened, in 2020 that one also be closed. And before only four or five months ago, I just like dreaming, dreaming thoughts on my mind, everything is gone and I am with this and that. Guruji's grace is always I remind it, but I have some dreaming life also like everything is gone and that's why I didn't care about my salon, I left it. And my mom's after he said because no one is doing work there, I am a main handling, managing artist, everything like that. And now these things are make me frustrated by 'why this?' and now this happened, my accident. So I am so confused but what should I do? I remember jobi Guruji amisha checker but some point of view I am so frustrated, I become angry. Please give me some little this kindness, how do I change myself?

Sometimes what can happen is, firstly I want to say that after hearing all of that, there's a deep prayer in my heart for you and your full family. And my Guruji's grace bless all of you with full, full consciousness. And this sometimes what can happen is that it takes time to recognize the grace in even all of these things. This is very tough thing I'm saying, but somewhere in your heart you will recognize this. I shared this story one time of I met another sangha sister, she's been with Guruji for many years, and what happened is that her fiance, he passed away. And she was very, very sad initially, but she met me after a few years and...

Your full family and my Guruji's grace bless all of you with full, full consciousness. And this, sometimes what can happen is that it takes time to recognize the grace in even all of these things. This is a very tough thing I'm saying, but somewhere in your heart you will recognize this. I shared this story one time of meeting another sangha sister; she's been with Guruji for many years. And what happened is that her fiancé, he passed away. And she was very, very sad initially, but she met me after a few years and she said that, you know, that this event was the greatest gift that life has given me because, because of that event happening, I saw that all of this life and death is not true about my reality. You see, our reality as that consciousness, as pure Atma, does not undergo life and death, and it helped her to recognize these things.

So it is my same prayer for you, that may all these events which are happening in your life—although your mind cannot understand them and you don't have to try and understand them also—just trust Guruji's grace that one day a great gift will be revealed to you because of these events. You will find yourself to be that deathless reality, that timeless reality, that unborn reality. So it is my deep prayer and blessing for you.

Thank you so much. I really recognize this all, and but sometimes Guruji is some trouble. Like, you know, I very hardly I start my salon seven years. I struggle in the posh area, put everything, I lost now. So this, these things are becoming a little bit like frustrated. Why happen this? Yeah, I am wrong. I am some... my friend is also, my sangha friend is also always guide me when whenever is gone is gone, you cannot change it. So you can don't go to the future, don't go to the past, only live on the presence. I am doing practices, but sometime I trust it, I don't know.

It's natural. It's not natural for you to get frustrated. I'll tell you one story which I rarely share in satsang. Actually, ever since I was a young boy, I wanted to start a software company. I only wanted, my only interest was to have a big software company. Now what happened is that that dream came true. I started a software company, then my father also came, worked with me. And what happened is we grew that company and it became 600 people, more than 600 people, a very large corporation. Then what happened is that because of some problem in the business, we had to shut it down. So at that moment, I never recognized, you see, why that happened. I felt like I worked for it so hard, or my life was about that. I felt so strongly that why do these things happen? So I was sounding just like you, actually.

But now I realized that all of it was Guruji's grace. I'm so grateful that that happened because it gave me so much space. Now life is so beautiful where I am able to share satsang, I'm able to meet so many beautiful children in this way, and I would never exchange this life for that life. So someday soon, by Guruji's grace, you will also see all the blessings that are there in this for you.

Thank you so much. I realized now. I like you are talking direct to my soul and you put it all thing on my mind. I want to keep it in my all life. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Actually, I just needed your blessing. Everything, everything is crumbling down, like all the four things you always say: money and health and all relations. So just wanted to have your blessing so that I just go through this experience and as you said that I will realize the gift hidden inside this. So that would be a great, great thing to happen. Just wanted to like get your blessing for that.

Like many times what we feel like our life is coming crumbling down, actually is the most beautiful gift that life can give to us. Of course, it is difficult in those moments to see this, and we must not even force ourselves to see like that. You see, sometimes some grief comes, some anger comes; it's okay. It can come, it can be released. We don't have to repress something or push it inside us. But in our heart, we know it is true that the Master of Grace is always taking care of us. And my full, full love, full blessings, big hugs to you and your family, which is also very beautiful, your family. So thank you. All of you are in my heart and all this happened in the most beautiful way with Guruji's grace.

And I want to like, always I try to surrender everything, like, but I don't know how to surrender everything. I always think like how to surrender everything, but it just can't happen. Sometimes I go with the thoughts and and the feelings. So, so that was it caught me many times.

Catches you like... don't worry. Sometimes these things are happening all around us, then these thoughts seem to have more power over us as well, don't they? You keep the intention to let go of thoughts in your heart. You remember you had a journey one time and we had this conversation about don't believe your next thought?

Yes, you decide it and you really... yes, this is the end of it. That it works. It works. Yes, yes, yes. That was the most amazing period of my life. I can say it was like an amazing experience for me that time.

In your heart, keep the intention to be open and empty. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello, Father. Um, there was one thing which I wanted to share is when you asked Atma Jyoti if there is any nice program that you've been watching, and one thing that came to my mind was something which I watched recently, Father, and that was on... it's called Surviving Death. And this, this was so fascinating, Father. It was as if Guruji's pointings were condensed in a series on Netflix, and it was presented from the perspective of scientists and neurologists and psychiatrists. And they were saying that basically about the accounts of near-death experiences, that you know how we, the awareness, the consciousness does not die. And it's fascinating for people, Father, who will, who are not in this path. And we are so blessed to have you and Guruji's blessings to recognize this every moment of every day, that you know, die to yourself while you're alive and let this be revealed.

But hearing from their perspective of, you know, that death is not real, it's such a concept, and awareness and consciousness, because these people in their NDEs could access, as you was just saying, you are deathless, you are timeless, and they were able to be in multiple places at the same time. And they realized that, you know, they were feeling as alive as they were probably when they were in the form. So it was such a... I have been, Father, very, very... my mind has been of that nature because I have a medical background, that I was very intrigued about NDEs and all that. And it's fascinating now that when we are on this, in this recognition, and we hear these stories are mainstream, it just feels very exciting. So I wanted to share that, Father, and maybe anybody wants to watch that Surviving Death. Yes, Father, it's interesting, Father, it's on Netflix. So that was one thing, Father, I wanted to share.

But the real question, Father, that came up today in satsang was the 'I' thought which you were talking about. Yeah, the 'I' thought is, you know, the 'I', the 'me', the 'I' is so, it is so subtle that, you know, sometimes it is just... it's like it's something I was just asking myself: am I deceiving myself that I am the presence of awareness? But it's the 'I am' which is the presence of... so what is the 'I' that I refer to to myself? So Father, that just happened today and I wanted to just, you know, put it out to you.

That anything you cannot deceive yourself about. Everything else we can make up, we can have ideas about, but that your true Self is what you really are is never, can never be a deception. It is fundamentally true. An interesting thing is that the way you express that question—and I'm going to give you a tip about this one—because like a question arises and it is like a request for information or something, and it can feel like once I have a satisfactory answer, then I close up and go back down, and it seems like the intellect is satisfied. Then another question starts to bubble up somewhere like that, you see? And you feel like the whole quest for meaning, the whole quest for this spiritual search is the hope that one day all my questions will be answered, you see? But it just doesn't work like that because the intellect, I've told you, is like a leaky roof. Like, it's fully, we've painted it, we've just renovated it; tomorrow something else will start tuck-tuck-tuck.

So don't try to fulfill the quest by satisfying your questions. I know it wasn't... it was a nice one, it's not a bad one, but just to give you a tip so that we get off the treadmill, which we don't realize is very tiring. So just ask yourself: what happens when I get an answer? What do I actually get? Questions say what, what, why, why, how, how, when, when, something like that. An answer says... so it is just a relief from the poking of the question itself. See, it is not any true knowledge that we've encountered, you see? Because no true knowledge can be stored here, you see?

So if we can, if I can meet you here, which is a very subtle and mature place to meet actually, where you start to notice that actually this game of trying to resolve it intellectually is not what this game is truly about. And then when a question comes and pokes and says, 'But but how, how, when, when, why, why,' you know, something like that, you see, you can recognize it as just the poking from the intellect. And you realize that the only game in the intellect is conclusion, conclusion, confusion, confusion. Yes, today's conclusions are tomorrow's confusions.

So it is with full love that I want to tell you this, that this is the treadmill which, if you want to look at it in a nice way, you can say has served its purpose and now it's time for you to get off that treadmill and get to the heart. Let the questions play around, whatever, whatever. You see something is really strong, then you can of course, I'm always happy to answer. But truly my answer is that don't worry so much about these questions because... you don't worry about this question so much because otherwise it seems like they can make us dance to their tunes. You just come up and say hello, you know, give me a virtual hug, and when you come to Bangalore in real, so-called real life. But don't, don't get pushed around by questions.

Yeah, thank you, Father. That, that is so very direct for this form, I think. Thank you so much, Father. Thank you.

Especially because you mentioned about coming from a studious background and coming from something which must have taken a lot of effort to do, then what can happen is that that becomes a way of life. It becomes a way of existence in a way where we feel like the whole goal is try to resolve our questions. But that's not, that's not really what it is. The only resolution is to... is the dissolution of them, is the letting go of them.

Yeah, yeah, Father. Everything at your feet. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Okay, I quickly came through the chat questions as well. 'It feels like awareness is knowable even though it is said to be unknowable.' Yes, it is knowable, but not in the ways we have considered to be knowing in the past. It is a fresh way of knowing which has always been there, but we recognize it freshly. Then next one says, 'Guruji, please allow me to surrender the three Ds at your feet.' Yes. Next one says, 'Permit me to surrender all my physical and mental problems to you, Father. Is the I thought the last illusion to dissolve? It is very subtle.'

We sort of answered that. We can look at it that way, but just as you're not making any reference to yourself, any reference to yourself, because the 'I' thought is actually contained in any thought, any reference that we make to ourselves. So instead of saying the last illusion to dissolve, we can say if the subtle subtext behind all motions and till all, till we come to the receiving of all motion, then the 'I' thought seems to prevail. Then the next one says, 'Father, I just...'

We sort of answered that. We can look at it that way, but just as you're not making any reference to yourself—any reference to yourself because the 'I' thought is actually contained in any thought, any reference that we make to ourselves—so instead of saying the last illusion to dissolve, we can say it is the subtle subtext behind all motions. And until we come to the receiving of all motion, then the 'I' thought seems to prevail.

Father, I just feel the only thing that is needed to be open is to allow everything here. That allowing is the letting go, but to allow, you need to be open also to see what is here. And there seems often to be judgment in the way we learn so many ways to avoid and hide and protect ourselves.

It is, in a way, speaking from different perspectives. So, I've said often that truly to label that 'this is what is happening' is really the avoidance of that; it is really a fear of meeting that so naked and so empty. So, although initially if you're just in a place where we are not meeting anything at all and we're just like an ostrich hiding from everything, it may be at a particular point useful to say, 'No, no, this is what's really happening; I'm not going to deny any of that.' It may be helpful at that point, but we have to graduate from there on to meeting it so naked and empty and with full innocence that we cannot hide behind conceptual labels of what is happening. And that is what I'm pointing to.

So good to hear/feel these things dismantled. So much gratitude to you.

Very welcome, very welcome. Big thank you to us for their coming up. Yes, very beautiful.

Father, what is your take on teaching? We'd say that whatever is arising—thoughts, feelings, and emotion—is already complete and whole and there is nothing to do.

Sounds fine. It sounds fine. Thank you, thank you. Some messages of gratitude. Thank you all so much.

Master, to achieve or perceive, there is a tussle.

To achieve or perceive? Well, in the waking state, you can't avoid perceiving. Perceiving is just natural in the waking story. Achieve? Achieve like are you talking about like ambitious ambition and things like that? Who's the protagonist of that? Is it available in pure perception? Maybe that is the testimony that you mean. Yes, yes, yes. But to realize and be the Self, no effort is needed. Yes. So who is the achievement for then? In the effortless recognition of the Self, you see that no such 'me' is there. You see? Then are we trying to feed a banana to a non-existent monkey or what? What is the achievement thing about it? It's good to contemplate that.

Father, everything which interrupts my connection with you, I place them at your feet. For some old fear, mistrust, kindness, or something, I was connecting time to time with the teacher who I met before I came to you. I cannot continue to do it anymore. I want to be with you, Guruji, alone.

Whatever is feeling true in your heart, you can trust that.

Father, so grateful for your pointers.

Very welcome, very welcome. Father, there is no sound? Sound, yes? Yeah, okay. Something with your connection. Good, good. Okay, very good. It's been quite a Satsang. We've captured most of what we speak of today. Thank you all so much for being in Satsang today.