Stop Trying To Understand What-Is, Meet What-Is - 12th March 2021

Now the question is: what is left in the fourth bowl? What did not go in any of the three bowls? And if you feel like everything went, find out in which bowl you went. In which bowl did you go? So this is an expansion of the same click. You meet me at the click; no need for any other expansion before the click. But if it feels strange—and you have to be true to your own heart about that—if it feels like, 'What is he saying?' then ask yourself: what do you know when you know nothing? What do you know when you know nothing? If that sounds again strange and absurd, add the four bowls.

And in this way, actually, all of spiritual pointing keeps expanding depending on where it needs to be met. See, that's where all the books come from, all the scriptures come from—just an expansion. So we can keep expanding more and more. In the same way, the two main suggestions on our path, you see, are self-inquiry and surrender, all pointing to the same thing actually. What happens in self-inquiry? Anything that you perceive, ask yourself: who witnesses that? And you say a thought comes and says that, you see, but who witnesses the thought? It is not about the content of the thought, but who witnesses the thought? Then you say, 'Ah, I am, I am,' you see. But who is... who is having to say, colloquially, who is this 'I' that is? You come to the same point.

Some of you may say, 'But this inquiry, who am I, what's the point? I've tried it, no peace comes,' you see. So it's very important that my tip is: when you do the inquiry, don't be an experience chaser. Don't go spiritual sightseeing. Don't worry about which state is coming or not coming. Stay with the question 'Who are you?' till it becomes apparent to you who you are. Now, some are temperamentally not there to do the inquiry, or they don't feel like inquiry is the right way for them. Then the other main suggestion is to surrender. So what is surrender? Whatever proposal or invitation is coming from the mind is Guru's problem, Satguru's problem, Father's problem, God's problem—whatever you want to say, it's all one, one Divine, different terms—but whatever you feel most devoted to. Problems? Don't make anything a thing. Don't make anything a thing; just hand it over to the Divine. That is surrender.

So in all of this, we have enough tools and ammunition to come to your self-discovery. I can offer, if some of you are trying something, I can offer you tips based on where you are. For example, some get very stuck like, 'How do I even approach this? How do I start to approach this fourth bowl?' You see, many of you may have this: 'Okay, perception went there, concepts went there, desires went there, my Father just left the same... what's in the fourth bowl? But how do I even start looking at this?' you see. So then I can give you a tip and say: okay, are you aware now? That affirmation, 'yes'—what is the recognition on the basis of which the 'yes' can be spoken? The recognition, not the speaking of it. Don't worry about the mechanics of the confirmation, but I am talking about the recognition itself. Was it a first bowl recognition? Are you aware now? Perception of awareness? Who's ever had a perception of awareness? With me? Starting to sound too abstract? I can speak louder when I start to lose attention.

So, do you perceive this awareness? Is what I'm saying, you see. If you did, then it would belong in the first bowl. How many feel like you perceive this awareness? How many feel like you don't perceive it? So you don't perceive it. You may say that 'I am aware of the perception of something,' and that is perceived of part, but the awareness itself? Unperceived now. So it doesn't belong in the first bowl. What about the second? Are you just confirming 'yes' because all the masters have said you are awareness? Bhagavan said awareness is another name for you; that is why you confirm it, because you learnt it? Is it conceptual knowledge? No. Are you with me, guys? This is not conceptual knowledge, and it's definitely not a desire. The third bowl is... you may have a desire to say 'yes'. If it is just like that, then put it there, but that's a simple one for them. Then on what basis does that come? In what recognition are you confirming it? And that awareness, where is it not? Are you separate from it? Is there a 'you' sitting there as either the owner of this awareness or an object within this awareness? Is there a 'you' like that? Isn't it? Is there a 'you' that owns this awareness, like 'awareness is mine'? Is it? Is there a 'you' like that? Or is there a 'you' even as if it is an object within this awareness, a limited 'you'?

Sometimes I ask you: where are you that awareness is not, and where is awareness that you are not? So you can use these—I'm going fast—so you can use these for your own contemplation, for your own discovery. Sorry, we'll come to your question, but that's the advantage of the book, you see. Like my wife, she rarely listens to me in satsang, no? So, but she loved my book, 'Consciousness Speaking with Consciousness', because she could read it at her pace and the concept of 'husband speaking' was not there when she was reading the book. So one time we were just sitting together and she said, 'Can you read your book to me?' And I said to her, 'But I'm sitting here, no? I don't want you to say read the book.' But the main advantage of the book, of course, is that you can read at your own pace.

By the way, he said one page took a long time. Yeah, you said what it means. Yeah, still whenever I'm at home, I'm aware there. Yeah, now I'm here. Where is this awareness? Is it located in this room? Yeah, I mean here and now, at least here.

We'll come there. Don't theorize, let's just look. So when you say 'here', are you talking about just the sense of hereness of it, or do you mean spatially here? You know what I mean? Like if I was to ask you, what is the location of it in this room, would you be... you know? So it actually is not like physically located in this room. Look, look, let's look at this. It's very good. So how much around? What is the radius, circumference? In fact, we feel like we can send our attention to the street, we can send our attention outside, we can close eyes and send our attention to most distant concepts that we may have, you see. But your attention can never leave your awareness. So it is impossible to define spatially.

So is it that awareness moves, or is it the content of perception change? Just like the content of the movie screen changes moment to moment, and yet the audience, the witness of it, remains unchanged. It's a worthy contemplation. Otherwise, we will struggle with notions that masters have told us, that the entirety of time and space is just conceptual or notional. If we start to believe in the location of awareness itself in spatial or temporal terms, then these things will seem strange to us, you see. So in satsang like this, before we can conclude—and they may seem like the most obvious conclusions—'What is he saying?' You know, it can sound absurd, but even those can be questioned. Like if I was to ask you right now: where are you? Where are you looking at all of this from?

So most of us may have an idea that 'I am some small object sitting behind my eyes' or something like that. It is just not true. And can this object made up of food contain anything other than an object? No matter how good the falafel was, can it contain pure spirit? So this is worth contemplating because we can have this idea that 'I'm somewhere inside the body.' But if you were something inside the body, then you would also be an object, you see. And some surgeon or some medical expert would have found you and been saying, 'Hey, there you are! You were hiding so long ago. This is this tiny earthworm or something inside the body.' That cannot be. The 'you', where is it?

And when these most obvious things for the mind—these are 'I'm here, man, like what are you asking?'—it is these most obvious things can be asked, man, then the mind gets very irritated. It's the very foundation of the lies that we have built in our heads. We don't even know where we are. In a question like 'Are you aware now?', you're taking the recognition that you're having—it is not in this universe, by the way. You may think you're having it inside your body or something; it is not like that. You have left this universe to recognize your true Self. And that true Self is the same one Ashtavakra spoke about, and he said you are the ocean in which the arcs of the universes come and go. Just by checking 'Am I aware now?', you discover yourself to be this. So don't limit what your insight is around any... with any mental fluids or any mental figures. Allow it to be naked, you see. Allow it to be naked. Question what—

The way you may think you're having it inside your body or something, it is not like that. You have left this universe to recognize your true self, and that true self is the same one Ashtavakra spoke about. And he said you are the ocean in which the arks of the universes come and go. Just by checking 'Am I aware now?' you discover yourself to be this. So don't limit what your insight is around with any mental fluids or any mental figures. Allow it to be naked, you see. Allow it to be naked.

Question what you think is the most obvious, you see. Otherwise, what will happen is the mind will sneakily sell you the story of yourself being just another object in time and space, and then all this talk about you being beyond the manifest will just sound like lip service. And then what will happen? Then the third bowl of spiritual desire will still be rampant. 'Okay, okay, now that I discovered I am awareness, my relationship is going to improve, you see. Is my emotional condition going to change?' These are the byproducts of you taking yourself to still be an object and trying to use that which is beyond objectivity for the advantage of this object, you see.

But what you are discovering is that you are not this object. At best, it is this objective universe which shows up within you and disappears. Every night it disappears, and there is no guarantee which one is going to show up again. But I won't digress that far. I won't digress that far. But the point is that if you apply worldly measures to your discovery of yourself as awareness, then it is the mind presenting the mask of ego to you in one way or the other.

And us, because we feel like I must understand this in some way as accepting it, and then it just becomes like a theory and not really a living... is it beyond living experience? I feel always the center is important, so I feel like let's clarify the definitions so that we know we are talking about the same thing.

Yes. Now, like for example, I would say when it never changes, you would say awareness is changing. So obviously we must be talking about different things, you see. Now when you say awareness, are you talking about attention or the content of perception? Find it. Where is it? Around your senses? So don't... so slowly. Don't speculate, because speculation will get you in trouble, you see. There's a proposal coming into your head saying, 'But it's around my senses,' you see. Now what we should do is be very scientific about that and say, 'Okay, where?' See, don't accept it at face value. Where? Because unless you start to question all these constructs, then we will just make another construct, a conceptual construct of the truth.

So in meeting that, you see, the mind may resist that time and say, 'But isn't that obvious? What is he saying, asking me to question this?' See, like it may sound obvious to you that my awareness is just around my senses, you see, but it won't sound obvious to her, you see. So all of us can look and clarify for ourselves. If the truth is truth, then it must be universal, isn't it? At least the truth that we are after. We've had enough of a subjective truth which everyday people are fighting about. So we are looking for now a universal truth which, irrespective of religion, irrespective of belief system, we must be able to discover, isn't it?

So we are fundamentally looking at this now. So let's see if we can look at it together. There is a set of perceptions that we are perceiving at any moment. Like right now, there is a set of perceptions. Yes. Now you are aware that there is sight. Yes. So you are looking at this body in front of you; that is sight. So you are aware of this sight, isn't it? That awareness, is it sight? This I want to also see it in you. Don't worry about coming to the right or wrong answer right now, you see. You're hearing these words, you see, so you are aware of hearing. But is that awareness hearing?

So this is worth contemplating. You could be aware of smell, taste. You could be aware of those perceptions that we call inner perception: imagination, memory, thought, you see. But is that awareness imagination, memory, thought? There is awareness of all of this perception, you see, but that awareness, independent of what the perception may be, remains unchanged in my experience. And you can share yours. You can share yours just so that we can come to the same page. It doesn't have to be my page. It doesn't have to be my page.

So if you say, for example, 'But Ananta, I look, I look for this awareness and I feel like it is just sight, it is just sight,' you see, then I could look again and say, 'Is it just sight?' I say no, there's awareness of sight which is independent of sight. So if sight was to go away, this awareness would still be there. And this can come from just like what we call pure looking. Because if you try to apply any concept to it, like it has to be like that or it must be like this, then it just gets muddled up.

So what is happening is because you're reading the book and things like that, some defrosting will happen to the mind and it'll allow you to contemplate these things which most people in the world won't have the space to contemplate. If I had this conversation with somebody just randomly on the street, chances are: 'Get away from me! What are you talking about?' So this is our opportunity to just look for ourselves and see what is aware of all of this realm of perception. So many different types of perceptions: sight, sound, touch, taste, feeling, you see. All of these things, various sensations, many, many categories of sensations. But is that awareness in different categories?

So when we ask 'Am I aware now?', is that based on sight? Is it based on sound, touch, smell, taste? That recognition is beyond these modes of knowledge. That is the beauty of this: that all these modes of knowledge may vanish and will vanish, and yet this remains. Everything in the realm of perception comes and goes, and yet you remain as this. Now, what questions can you have?

So if we were to presume that we are in the same experiment, that every perception I am unconcerned about for the moment—it's going in the first bowl, see—everything that I think to be true but I don't even have a perception of it, you see, that goes in the second bowl. And everything that I want, especially as a seeker, spiritual wanting, goes in the third bowl. If you remain in the same experiment, what is your... what are your questions or doubts about the fourth bowl? That is my primary concern for today before we get into the first three, you see. Because the mind will always present you questions to do with the other three, but it won't like spending too much time contemplating the fourth bowl. So is there any doubt about the inquiry, about the question?

Like I was standing there and suddenly I felt like there was no devotion, there is no surrender, there's nothing. Like something very strongly I'm seeing this, seeing this, and this is like... it's not empty.

So if you go slowly. 'I was standing there' is first bowl. 'That there was no devotion' is second bowl, because you have a concept: 'I have no devotion, no surrender.' At that point when you say you felt, mean...

Yeah.

See, so if it is energy, if it is thought, first bowl. The point is not to shut you up or something. The point is just to see how we fall for the same traps. But that is also second bowl, see. That's what happened to the second bowl. Second bowl. Now, is there a knowing which is independent of what you could know? Which bowl is that in? That's it, you see. Because the mind will present proposals and invitations to you to make a shape out of you. Everything, that's what it does. Everything that we encounter, the mind is ready with its mold saying, 'This is that. Actually, you know, this is that.' And it's just presenting these things to us.

Look back at your day-to-day and see how many things you put in your mental molds. Everything. So stop it. Without knowing it also, it falls. So stop it. Now is the best time to stop it, you see. Because 'I put everything into a mental mold' is also a micro-mold. So the point is to notice that and just to become empty. And it's almost like a primal need in the human condition now, at least in the grown-ups, you see. At least in the grown-ups. Like the innocence of children, they don't have this condition. They can just play without making anything a thing. But releasing the so-called grown-ups... like we have to encounter everything through a mental lens of understanding and we feel like that is helping us, but that is what is oppressing us.

These are the hands of the thousand-handed monster in the Yoga Vashistha which is making us suffer. Our own hands are making us suffer. Our hands of notional understanding. They are crumbs. They're crumbs, like breadcrumbs, you see, compared to the feast of the Lord which is your very heart, your intuitive insight. These ideas that you think you're right about conceptually, they're nothing. Nothing. See, there's some hands up. So let's go to Shivoham. I see him first.

Hello. Hello. Can you hear me well? Yes, thank you. And so, well, I want to expose again and again the belief that, yeah, I can't... I can't be empty.

Empty? You can't be empty?

Yes. It's like, or totally empty, or it's like it seems that, well, I keep falling in the trap that I keep expecting something, you know, expecting... and yeah, I wanted to give it to you again.

And let's do an experiment on this. Yes, an experiment on this. So your task now is to be fully full, to not be empty this moment. This moment now. Right now. Now, now, right now. Are you fully full now, now, now?

I'm very good at that right now.

It is impossible to be caught up. It takes work. It takes effort to suffer, effort to misunderstand yourself. It takes effort to limit yourself. Yeah, this is the master key: that it is not effort to be free, but effort to limit yourself. What's your name now, now, now? Even that limitation of name and form, yes, yes, even if your name is the most auspicious like Shivoham, that is subject to time. All your identity—which country, which religion, which family, which gender—all of this takes time. You are naturally empty of this right now. That's why it is the emptiness which is easier, actually. But the mind has another idea of what that should mean for me, and that trips us up. That's why we made a separate... what is the expectation?

The expectation... a lot of expectations. Maybe it's like, yeah, it's too...

So is there an expectation that you should be empty of expectation? Yes. So leave that also. One tip I'll give you, and it's for all of you—I don't know if I mentioned it in the broadcast so far—but don't try to explain anything to yourself, especially about truths, God, Self. If you would not bother to explain it to a squirrel, don't try to understand anything about any of this. If you would not bother to explain it to a squirrel... oh, sorry, I'm happy to repeat this one. Don't bother to understand anything about the truth if you would not bother to explain it to a squirrel. You know squirrel? Squirrel, the animal. No? Yes, yes, yes. Okay, hamster. Yeah, yeah.

Then where does that lead you? Yeah, I need to say it. It's... okay, but something is missing. Yeah, I follow you, but yeah, yeah, okay, but yeah, but...

So get back to that point about expectations. Yes, of course. What would it be if it was not missing? How would you know? Yeah, what would it look like? Would there be a halo? Would there be superpowers? Yeah, what to do?

Just the presence of all the time... what I see is that I keep giving meaning towards it and...

Yes, exactly. Exactly. It's almost like once we take words to be relevant or reflective of reality—reflective in the sense like they have the ability to reflect what is true, you see—that is what is called belief, isn't it? So once we apply words to what is manifest, you see, and we sometimes struggle and we try to apply words even to the unmanifest, but mostly what we struggle with is that to apply words to the manifest, it is trying to create a narrative which has a timeline of past and future, you see.

It's almost like once we take words to be relevant or reflective of reality—reflective in the sense that they have the ability to reflect what is true—you see, that is what is called belief, isn't it? So once we apply words to what is manifest, you see, and we sometimes struggle and we try to apply words even to the unmanifest, but mostly what we struggle with is trying to apply words to the manifest. It is trying to create a narrative which has a timeline of past and future, you see. Yes, because everything that is manifesting right now, you cannot put it into any narrative. You see, it would be too much for your mind to handle everything that is being perceived right now in your narrative. Tell me your story from five days; everything that you experience, you cannot do it, you see. So it has to be cut down to the very primitive, basic levels, you know, Jurassic Park type stuff. 'Oh, this is what happened to me.' The 'me' is presumed, what happened is presumed; everything is presumed in that, you see. And it's very, very primitive meaning-making that is oppressing us because what is manifest is impossible to insert in any timeline, and the mind is just telling us stories. The mind is just telling us stories.

Without the narratives, there's no mind. So if you want to be truthful about even what happened to me as a body-mind, can we be truthful about it? No, the mind does not have the capacity for it. So it picks and chooses themes, conveniences, you see, topics. It tries to mold everything into the theme so the narrative doesn't move. That's why you notice that everybody—not just for yourself, but everyone who comes to satsang—all your brothers and sisters also seem to keep suffering from the same condition because everything that is appearing to them in life, which is so unblemished and so grand, the mind projects the same lens upon it and tries to mold everything into that story. Whether it is the victim story or the special story or the whatever story. So it is not that life is like that, because life is always all there is, but because our mold is like that. And in coming to satsang, I'm inviting you to smash these molds, you see. Smash these molds. Stop trying to understand what-is; meet what-is.

And when I say stop trying to understand what it is, it includes 'What should I do?' especially, 'What do I need to do?' especially, and then 'What do I want? How should I live?' You see, all of those things. So don't oppress your life, which is so broad and beautiful and it's God itself. Don't try to oppress it by trying to fit it into some mental lens that you have about it. And what makes that mental lens? You rightly say, which is the words; it is language. Yeah, you see, we go to a pond, you may see hundreds of beautiful creatures, but it's too much for the mind to fathom, so the mind says, 'I saw a hundred.' That's over. But each is unique, each is beautiful, each is a work of art, a divine work of art. But the moment we label it... each of you, each of your bodies is the unique creation of God. Beautiful, not replicated. Your eyes, fingers—no cell really is ever possible to put in the same combination ever again. It's not going to happen in history; this body is not going to be replicated ever, you see. And yet, what happened today? 'Oh, we went to satsang, there were 15 people in the room, 100 people on the Zoom.' You see, because these things can be put in narratives.

And if I wanted to put what is truly manifesting in my narrative, I couldn't do it because if I started describing one of your bodies, I could spend my whole lifetime and I couldn't do it. This is how our life is too broad. Every moment of our life is so broad, but our need to storify seems to have taken over so much that we need to apply these limited, primitive lenses to be able to make our story. And we seem to be able to tell a story from 30 years, 40 years, but one moment we cannot define. So it's all absurdity. So in satsang, we use absurdity to cancel absurdity. That's why the pointing thing sounds absurd, because it's absurdity that we're holding on to. We cannot even describe one moment, yet you come and tell me the story of your life. And it's not my trouble—you can tell me the story—but it's troubling you, you know? You're oppressing yourself. Consciousness is playing this game of self-oppression in some way, using these variables. And it is this made-up central protagonist called 'me' who seems to be the central element about everything.

Even now, the mind could be saying, 'Yeah, yeah, all this is good, but am I really getting this?' If you go to a sugar shop, if you give the salesman money, he's going to give you sugar. Why can I not? Why do you have to keep giving me the sugar? Because you pay for it. That's the only way it is possible; otherwise, naturally it would be here, of course, and so sweet. And then what happens is the mind presents you another idea saying, 'Who, me? Little old me? I'm not doing any of that. When did I buy the sugar?' This is not true. This is the dream of consciousness. Consciousness cannot be held hostage to the mind. What is the mind for consciousness? Popcorn. But only when you buy into the representation of 'little old me,' then of course all the troubles of the world can befall you. So consciousness speaking to consciousness is reminding consciousness that it is not a hostage. All of it is your favor. It is your own attention and belief which create this pretense of identity. It is never really created anywhere.

Yes, but the thing is that we were taught the false also with great intensity, and it is reinforced to us constantly in our what we call daily life, except when we come to satsang. So I may remind you a thousand times what life has reminded you, or the play of this Leela has reminded you 10 million times of the false. But we should feel grateful that at least we found satsang. So at least get this alarm clock to ring. The squirrel may think, 'I'm a nut.' If we take ourselves to be human, you see, if we take ourselves to be human, then we must drop the arrogance of humanity saying that 'I can understand God.' If we recognize that we are not separate from God, there is one being, one Brahman, then there is nothing to understand. It is as simple as that. If you take yourself to be human, don't think that you can understand God.

Your being itself—what is left to understand in your being right now? What lack is there that we need to understand? What story is there that needs resolution? And if you are liking the human representation, then I'll tell you how not to suffer taking yourself to be a human: don't try to understand life, God, truths, love. All of these things are too broad for a human to understand. No offense to all of you, but if you want to put on the mask of humanity on top of your godliness, your divinity, and then say, 'Here, with this mask on, I want to meet God,' then that is not possible. But that is what every spiritual seeker wants. Seeker is what? The 'me' wanting something more, wanting the meeting with God, refusing to put down the mask. And that's why it seems so round and round.

Because you're pointed to something, you have an insight about it. Insight is simple. Insight is simple. The pointers are potent enough that you will have an insight about it, but then the mask comes back on again because you want to own it and make something out of it, use it as part of your narrative. You want your narrative to change to freedom and enlightenment. That cannot happen. God is not so tiny that you will include Him in your story and He says, 'Yes, yes, I'm here. What do you want to do?' So either you let go of your narrative or let go of God. Both you cannot juggle; you will suffer more. Like, what is an expectation? 'I know what is better than God knows about what should happen to me.' That's an expectation. Like the universal chef is going to mess up this pasta to use in an Italian restaurant—how much salt to use and how much pasta sauce, how much tomatoes. What is the value to an expectation? 'I should have' or 'I want' is a statement to whom, isn't it? It's just a way to resist what-is.

And it may float around as if it is a desire: 'I am powerful enough to want something.' But usually it is just a makeup for some fear. The fear of your nakedness, the fear of your openness, the fear of being so empty of conceptual meaning-making. But I promise you there is nothing to fear. Even if fear comes, it is not to be fueled. Don't fear the fuel; it is just the bursting of the microwave popcorn. It means nothing to your reality. You're just getting cooked. And I'm saying it's a disguise usually used because we are not so stupid. The minute we come to openness and emptiness, we say, 'I want, I want, I want,' you see? Just a defense mechanism because what we find there can seem too much for the mind to handle. Thank you for presenting this because I felt like it would have answered many questions. Thank you, thank you. Don't be scared of anything at all. Nothing can shake you in reality.

Hello, oh my dear. I'm glad actually you came up because then I don't have to try for a longer message. I can just share with you what I was trying to say. I was feeling to message you back, but this is much better, no? This is much better. And everything that you said to Shiva, I feel like you were saying to me as well, and everybody of course. So I thank Shiva for coming forward. Thank you.

And I wrote some things down just because I don't usually... I mean, sometimes I write things down, but usually I don't. So, 'Everything is just a way to resist what-is' is what you said that really... like all our ideas and even my story of believing in right and wrong, good and bad. That story that I believe in, that story is a story. Yes. And but when I present myself to you, nothing feels true when I say it. And there is the feeling of making a wrong choice, and good and bad still. And I think it stems from the idea that sometimes I hear the guru say, 'You should do everything you can to be near the guru.' So the mind creates the scenario of, 'Well, I have to put all of my life on hold and find a way to get near the guru physically, and if I don't, everything else is wrong, so don't do anything else.' And it creates kind of this halt in my life, or the belief that if you get into a relationship, then that will stall your awakening too. 'Don't get into a relationship, it's just a distraction.' Or a new perfect job is presenting itself, 'That's just a way to distract you from awakening.' So all of these beliefs because of what's been said, and I'm sure it's been twisted. So that's where the fear comes from. If I do these things that have presented themselves, if I do them, then I'm stopping my awakening.

This is very good. This is a very good starting point to this conversation because already I'm sensing the openness to what I'm about to say. And what I'm about to say relies on something beautiful that Guruji said. He said nothing in the world, nothing in life, has inherent meaning. Is it so? So to be able to determine—if there is nothing in life which has inherent meaning—then to be able to determine the right from wrong, good from bad, 'What should I do?' and 'What should I not do?' you see, must also be very moment-to-moment. You see, because sometimes to move next to the guru could make you very, very identified, and sometimes to move next to the guru could be the greatest grace that could happen to you. Sometimes you might find freedom by looking into the eyes of the master, and sometimes you may find freedom when you're milking a cow or something. So there's no real template that anybody can see, you see. Because if there was a template like that, humans are actually that smart that they would have figured it out by now. Yeah, go for it, everybody. Herd mentality is there anyway. But because nothing works universally in this form of strategizing or making tactics, now, because nothing works universally in a templatized way, then does that mean we are forever lost?

And sometimes you may find freedom when you're milking a cow or something, so there's no real template that anybody can see, you see? Because if there was a template like that, humans are actually that smart that they would have figured it out by now. Yeah, go for it; everybody—herd mentality is there anyway. So everybody... but because nothing works universally in this form of strategizing or making tactics now, because nothing works universally in a templatized way, then does that mean we are forever lost? It would sound like that. It would sound like that—that nothing has inherent meaning, so I can never know what to do, I can never know what is right, I never know what is wrong.

Now, what I'm discarding in the notion is that there is a certain set of actions, you see, which can consistently create this kind of outcome, you see. So the notion of cause and effect we have to discover, you see. And especially if this life is some sort of spiritual template to freedom, then I would not advise it to anyone. Which is, yesterday I was sharing about how much confusion and how much spiritual jumping around and how much all the wrong things that I've been advised not to do or done from here—like practically every kind of jumping of practices, following different, different things, trying to experiment with everything, you see, was here. And yet, you see, something worked in Guru's grace to show me that—show me what the longing was for.

So on the basis of this life, I can give you no template. I can give you no template. I never really lived in an ashram, but does that mean... can you take from there the meaning that, 'No, no, but living in an ashram doesn't help'? Of course it helps. We have so many examples of it helping, both traditionally as well as now in our lives, we see. So we cannot say anything that it should be like this or it should not. Mind is always trying to create these modes and say, 'This is correct, this is wrong, this is the way it should be, it should not be.' Then what do we do? And you know, and that is the answer I sent to you. And maybe something just smells like it's a cop-out or something, I'm just ignoring the question, but really that is the only way to live. The only way to get guidance is to go to our intuition moment to moment.

Because even if I was to tell you, 'Go left, go left, go left,' that might be for just now, and tomorrow you're meant to go right, right, right. So it cannot apply, you see. It is important sometimes to do that dance across going left and then right. And if I started writing guidance like that, then... 'Are you crazy?' But that's not the point. So what do we do? We have the source of this intelligence as our intuitive ability, our intuitive intelligence, always with us, you see. And we can rely on it not to give us a roadmap or a game plan, but to be able to point us to what is needed, if anything at all, in this moment. That is the only way we can live this life with openness. If we try to put our life in some sort of stereotypical mode, then it is only going to frustrate us, and it never has the intended outcome anyway.

So that same place, provisionally, we are coming into a place where you know that you are aware, which is not conceptual, which is not perceptual. In that same place, which we can call the heart, the guidance about what is needed, if anything at all is needed, is available to us. It doesn't have to be in words, you see. It sometimes just can move us, you see, or sometimes it can be in words, and sometimes it can be in so many other ways. But this coming to satsang is the development of trust. It is the development of trust where we move away from the roadmaps and the game plans and the modes of how reality is meant to function—because there is no such way in which reality functions—into a trust of our divinity, which is our own heart. Dropping into that trust and allowing our head not to know, and allowing our life to move from our heart. Allowing our head not to know and allowing our life to move from our heart, which it already is doing. But if you remain with that, then you will feel a sense of resonance with it instead of a sense of opposition to it.

See, if you go to your mind, it will constantly resist the movement which is happening from your heart anyway, you see. If you just remain with your heart, then you will feel a sense of alignment with it, a resonance with it, a non-resistance and non-suffering. And suffering is nothing but a resistance to what is. So all of this I wanted to say, but it came out just like: trust life's momentum.

Yes. And the awareness... you just said awareness, you're already living from your heart. Yes, yes, of course. I mean, that's... it's so simple, but it's so freeing to hear that, that it's already so.

Nothing but consciousness has the projective ability to manifest life. Nothing but consciousness. It has to be all consciousness. And whether you call it consciousness or God or Guru or Self, it doesn't matter. That's why we can say 'Guru Kripa Kevalam'—the Master's grace is all there is, or only the Master's grace is. Right?

Yes. Thank you for the openness to accept these kind of answers, because it is these kind of answers that I want to share with you. Not 'do this, don't do that.' That is a bit primitive in terms of where we are now. Does that... 'do this' and 'do that' maybe just for this moment? Nothing can really be said about this in reality. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Melissa had her hand up for a while. Very grateful you're here. Just want to start with that. In satsang, I'm feeling a lot, so maybe I need a couple breaths. Take as much time. Oh, it's so intense at the moment. Like, I mean, if you look at my life, I'm in a quite challenging situation on the manifestation of it. Everything's unsure, and I've always used my stories to stay in the suffering. And I've realized that so deep this morning, like to tell myself it's difficult and it's just, you know, recreating suffering and suffering. I don't hear you anymore, by the way.

I'm just listening, my dear. Oh, you don't say anything yet.

There's so much pain that I don't know how to do it. Like, on the physical level it's okay, but on an emotional level there's so many emotions coming out. And I see my mind protecting it. Like, if I don't drop into it, there's this huge mind attack. So it's either mind attack or a lot of sensation. I drop into it and I feel like, 'Oh, I end my relationship, should I change my job?' and this and that. And what I realized this morning is that I find it difficult to say, but I saw just that this thought coming up: 'I hate my life.' And I just wanted it to stop. And it's so difficult to be with. Like, if it's that intense, I find it hard to stay aware of it, you know what I mean? And there's this moment of great openness where it's like, 'Oh, you know, just surrender,' and then I feel this huge opening, and then this intense contraction. And what I feel... what am I actually trying to avoid is like this fear of this deep void, which I think it's not even actually there, but it feels like it's there. It's so empty. I'm sitting in the house every day and I don't know what to do with my day. Yes, yes, I just don't know.

So firstly, I want to say to you that I'm fully, fully with you and always in my heart, and this will pass. Now, if you live... we can sit here together, and if you feel like there's any running from something or avoidance or something like this, like the idea of a conceptual void of some sort, if you want to face it together with me, why don't you just see what it's about? Yeah? I hope you love me. It is the same conceptual emptiness that I'm talking about which makes your Self very apparent to you. For the mind, it can seem like a very scary idea sometimes. So I want to see what the avoidance is. Is it avoiding the pure meeting of your own Self, or is it avoiding some conditioned fear from somewhere? And having an explanation with you so that... and the many in sangha also who go through these kind of things, so it may be a useful exercise for everyone. Yeah, I think it can be very hard. Or do you take out the poison from the sphere in a way? Maybe it will be helpful.

Yeah, we're in a supportive space. This could be an opportunity to just look. So is there like a fear that 'If I let go, I'll be sucked into this deep dark void' or something like that? Or what is it?

Just that I'm going to die. Like, it feels so intense in my body. Yes, and there's so much like energetical shifts or like emotions coming out that... what is it? There is this belief, I think.

So what I was saying is, is the feeling conditioned on some idea that if I'm not in control or if I do something, then I may die? Is it like that?

Or just like I'm going to die. I have a feeling it has to do with control.

Yes, yes. That is not unfamiliar to me. That report is not unfamiliar to me. And this is like... sometimes I call it like a primal fear, because the invitation in satsang is to let go, but the mind presents this alternative idea saying that if you let go, then you will die, you cannot live. Yeah? It comes because when we did not want to learn everything conceptually, we were told by everyone around us that you need this stuff to live, you see. Yeah? Now you're being asked to let go of all of this life. Then that idea that 'I need this stuff to live, I'm going to die without it' can play out. So just... we sit together and just remain as open and as empty as possible. And if there's something strong coming up, or even if you feel like it's not very strong, you can just say it out loud and we can look at it.

Thank you. Right now there's like a lot of sensations in my heart area, like this.

Are they by themselves either painful or pleasurable in themselves right now?

None of them. Like, neither. It's just there. It is just sensations being perceived.

Yes. So that cannot hurt you.

I right away see the thought coming up, 'But if it's intenser, it is very unpleasant.'

So because you're here in the safe space, you're invited to let it get intense and then tell me if inherently it changes its complexion to being either painful or pleasurable on its own.

Yeah, it becomes less intense. That is the beauty of this, but we don't have to make that into an expectation. But it is very visual that when we become more open to something, it seems to drop in its intensity. Yeah, I feel no resistance now.

Yes.

If I can expose something... like there's this huge resistance to this... well, I could call it like this giant attack of whatever it is. Yeah, but I don't know how to drop it. And maybe I even have to drop that I have to know how to drop it, but I'm just clueless.

So invite your mind to attack you now. Let's see how big it can get. What is the scariest thing it can show us? What is the biggest thought it can throw at us? Let's see how big it is.

I can't do this. This life, I can't do it. That's the scary stuff, I think. The scariest thought is that you can't do this life, you can't run this life. Yeah, like I'm not... I'm not able to be on this earth. And I will right away feel my heart like kind of contracting.

So good. Invite these kind of thoughts. Don't run from them. I'm with you, my dear. Don't worry. We all give you—all of us—full blessings for you in our heart right now. Nothing will happen. This 'you' that can't run life, you see, has never existed. Has never existed. Life cannot be run by some idea of 'me.' And it is running it beautifully. It is meant to be. But only life runs life. Consciousness is life itself. So of course, if you have a representation of 'me' which takes on the mantle of running life, of course it can't do it, and of course it's going to seem burdensome to be, you see. But this representation of 'me' is not true. Yeah? Are we talking about the body running life? Who are we talking about? How can the body run life? The body runs on life itself. How can the body run life? It is the life force which energizes the body and keeps it alive. So obviously the body, which is a product of that life force, cannot run this life. Then who must this 'me' be that has to run this life? Yeah, there is no such entity. It is just a figment of our mind. It is just an idea.

The representation of me is not true. Yeah, are we talking about the body running life? Who are we talking about? How can the body run life? The body runs on life itself. How can the body run life? It is the life force which energizes the body and keeps it alive. So obviously the body, which is a product of that life force, cannot run this life. Then who must this 'me' be that has to run this life? Yeah, there is no such entity. It is just a figment of our mind. It is just an idea that the mind creates to oppress consciousness in this game of consciousness.

And I have a feeling that letting go of that belief is bringing up a lot of fear, like intensively.

Yeah, so now because... yeah, sorry. We can do this together. Invite the biggest fear that you can experience. Can it contain the entirety of you?

It drops. It tends to take... why is... why are we trying to understand? Why is there so much tears coming out? Why is there so much fear? That's another thing that wants to understand it.

Let's find something that we have understood so far, and I'm including myself in this question. I can't find anything that I've understood. Why can you? Sorry, what did you say?

I said that I cannot find here anything that I truly understood the cause or the why of.

I'm wondering whether you can find something that you know the why of. I don't think so. Nothing. So let's not presume we can start now. Let's not trouble ourselves, okay? The 'who' is actually much better. You heard me talk about this before. Well, just both are three-letter words, you see? 'Why' and 'who'. And yet the attraction in the mind is to ask why. And the minute you invite the mind to ask who, you say, 'No, no, no, I don't feel like I'm so much into inquiry, this kind of thing.' Yeah, yeah. Three-letter words. There's one alphabet difference, actually. Replace the 'y' of the 'why' with the 'o'. And that is much...

I want to ask some people... I don't know where it's coming from. It's okay. So while this is so intense, you know, these things coming out, I am wondering, yeah, what do I need in order to support life this best way possible? Because I feel—I don't know if it's true, maybe it's mind—there's a lot of instability around me. Yes, and I'm really trying to feel into it from my heart, like, you know, what do I need in order to support that? Because I don't want to create more suffering than necessary.

Yes, yes. So let's see if we can look at this. And it is a sort of continuation from what I was telling Keisha. That answer can change from moment to moment. Yeah, your heart could tell you in this moment you need to end this relationship. You see, we could say you need to end this relationship, and then what will happen is you take some steps towards ending the relationship, and some things could change in the relationship—and this is not the advice, okay—so you're taking some steps to end the relationship and you will find that maybe some circumstances change and now your heart tells you, 'Now you can stay.' You see? Or the other way around. So it's very moment to moment. So it's impossible to define life in this way where we can say, 'This is what we need to do,' because that can only cause more frustration and confusion. And so my whole thing in satsang is to introduce you to the knowing of the heart where not only do you recognize your reality as pure awareness itself, but also whatever guidance is needed in that life is available to you. Yeah, but it can never be in the form of a categorical statement saying, 'This is what is good for you' or 'This is what is bad for you.' And most in the world are not ready to hear that yet. But I feel all of you coming to this kind of satsang, there is already some openness to deal with this kind of pointing where we must drop our ideas of categorically 'this is good' and 'this is bad,' 'this is what I need' and 'this is what I don't need.' And we learn to become a little more open to what life is every moment in our life.

It's so interesting. Exactly what you're describing now happened over 48 hours. And I saw myself going from this openness like, 'Okay, in this moment this is what my heart tells me,' and I just see what the next second will bring me. And then another hour later it was like, 'Okay, so the coming two weeks I'm gonna...' and back in that contraction. So I really see those jumps.

Yeah, for a while it can be like that. You just settle in your heart. No, because even in the life of a so-called sage, there will be moments where some identification or some idea will be picked up momentarily. Thank you so much. All my life... okay, I saw a handle come on. Many hands up on the Zoom, of course. I see Siddha and then I see Om Shiva and then Adrian. Every night, hello. What is the current representation of life? Grace is working. That one we can keep, maybe.

Maybe. I myself also don't know, but I very much would love to talk with you. For two satsangs, so much crying almost during the satsang, just so much crying happens. And it's again related with myself, my kind of hate. And it's not totally true actually, but some aspects is like this.

And so you were saying that, if I heard you correctly, that there has been crying coming, but along with the crying there are some conceptual messages of hating yourself which you have found familiar in your life in the past as well. May you please repeat further?

Yes, so what I'm asking is that you said, if I heard you correctly, that there has been crying coming throughout satsang. Along with the crying there have been some conceptual messages of self-hate which you have experienced for yourself in the past as well.

In the past as well? I couldn't figure out this sentence. But is this new to you?

No, it's not new. It's just burping. That's why I said also it's not totally true, because it's not my complete experience about myself. But so much like, yeah, old, old stuff is coming. And yeah, and it's not that...

So let me invite you to make a more complete representation.

Father, I also don't know. Like, I exposed it last time but it doesn't give the true representation, you know? It's just like this feeling itself. And I was carrying this just... sorry, my English cannot help me sometimes, not so good. It's just this feeling was just with me, you know? And I always see myself also in the screen. It's just not just feeling about myself. It's like how I'm approached, how play also going outside. And it's not just like... at the same time I feel so weak, you know? Not just that my stuff playing outside, at the same time I feel so weak to... when something comes outside which is not related with me at all maybe, but it's like there is no kind of... I always feel like I have no protection. And it was my experience actually like from childhood. No protection at home, not from my side or from outside. And yeah, like... yes, so I don't even like to expose it, you know.

Now can you tell me, just in the purity of the experience itself, not with so much deciphering, not with so much translation, what is it that you are experiencing in this very moment? Can you explain to me as completely as possible?

Okay. I feel like my feeling actually because... okay, I feel like people are posing like this to me, you know? Like I'm there but people are like this. I don't know if I couldn't...

Is it like turning away?

Yeah, like I'm nothing. I'm just so small. Like nice, nice, nice, but okay.

This is good, but can we meet it even one level deeper where you tell me what the experience of it is live, not the explanation of it is live? You see what I'm saying? So not the interpretation of what you're feeling, but what is the experience of the feeling itself? I'm doing this. I feel like I'm doing this. What is the experience that you're having right now? Right now, yes. Like is there a set of sensations in your heart region? Is there something pulsating in your head region? What is the actual experience in the manifest? Not in the body, but yes.

It's like I feel just so distant from you because you are also... I see you as a human being too, and I see myself with you. And because there is not liking kind of sense, I feel so much distance. And I don't like you either. And it's not about you, but I don't like... it's like, yeah, it's like this. I don't like you.

So, in spite of that, in spite of that, let me see if we can go in the direction that I'm saying. So one way to say this is to say, 'This is the cup. It looks a bit traditional. It may be Middle Eastern or traditional Indian in design.' That is one way that we have a sense of being able to know what it is and to convey it in broad terms, you see? The other way to look at it is to see, 'Ah, this... there's a play of color. There seems to be some brown and then lighter brown, and there seem to be some white color and there seem to be some lines.' So then that deconstructs our interpretation of what this is and breaks it down more in terms of a description and not an explanation, you see? Now what happens is that many times in our representations of what is appearing, we find that the representations are very different from what the actual experience is. So that is why I'm asking: what is the actual experience or the color of the experience, in a way? Not what it means.

I don't know. Like feeling...

Yes, yes. Like what feeling?

Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm happy about this. Yeah, yeah. Because this feeling was with me all night and yes, I remember this feeling. It's like... it's like complete... something is dead. Like no...

I will... don't interpret it as much as possible, okay? Just describe it like the cup. You see the color, the shape, not what it means, okay?

It's like, Father, something within is just so alive but it cannot... it cannot go out. It's like it cannot flow. Still alone, aliveness is there, you see.

What is stopping it?

A lot of condition... not even conditioning. I don't know. It was like this.

Just look at it fresh and tell me from there. Tiredness, heaviness, incredible heaviness. What is it? A type of contraction? What do we mean by tiredness? Is it a type of energy? Where is it being experienced? Is it a sort of like this? And where is it in our being? Is it here? Is it here? Is it here? Where is it? What is it?

Especially in the head, but whole body.

And what is the experience? What is it? Is it like a pulsation? Is it like a deadness? Is it like...

No, just so much heaviness. Heaviness, you see.

Yeah, now there's in your head and the rest of your body, you see. Now, what else? What else is there beside the heaviness?

It's also I have some psychological stuff.

Yes, so for that psychological stuff, we're keeping aside for a moment because that has the interpretation. What else is actually there in the experience?

Heartbreak.

Heartbreak is what? What is the... that sounds like interpretation. What is the sensation?

Not even heartbreak, I don't know. Not also sadness too, but this heaviness is like... I don't know.

I don't know is very good. I don't know is very good. What else besides that? Do you have a sense of your being? Do you have a sense that you are aware of all of this, or is your entirety contained in this heaviness now?

It's like I don't have an energy to check for this, like...

Yes, but this takes less energy than interpreting, okay? This takes... the checking takes less energy actually, although it is less enjoyable to the mind, you see? But to make a conclusion actually takes much more energy and tires us even more. Yes, this heaviness is there like a bulk. Yeah. And in your being, is there anything else except the heaviness?

Yes. What? And what else is kind of the touch, emptiness, the space.

Okay. All of these perceptions are where? This voice, this computer or phone or whatever it may be, where is it? In the light, in the consciousness. It's still inside your being, yes? But in consciousness. In consciousness, I at least use it synonymously. There is no difference between consciousness and beingness, which is one consciousness, one being. Now, what makes a certain set of sensations more meaningful than another? Yes, but independent of the mind, is something that's 'mine'?

Yes.

But the notion of 'mine' also comes from the mind. Is something inherently more yours?

Computer or phone or whatever it may be, where is it? In the light, in the consciousness. It's still inside your being, yes. But in consciousness, in consciousness—I at least use it synonymously—there is no difference between consciousness and beingness, which is one consciousness, one being. Now, what makes a certain set of sensations more meaningful than another? Yes, but independent of the mind, is something that's mind, mine? Yes, but the notion of mind also comes from the mind. Is something inherently more yours than something else? Inherence, yeah. So, among all the perceptions, are the perceptions themselves saying, 'I am more you' and 'I am less you'? They don't. Yes. So, what distinguished mine and not mine for me?

Familiarity.

Familiarity comes from where? Automatically it comes from memory, you know. So, suppose this was the first moment of your dream and yet you would say, 'Oh, this is my house, I'm familiar with it.' So memory can present us this kind of notion of familiarity. But even if there's a familiarity of perception, does it automatically make it mine?

Sorry, my head goes anywhere else, I couldn't hear you.

Even if there's a perceptual familiarity where something seems to be recognized, does it automatically make it mine?

No.

Then what does?

Nothing. Then there is no mind. Is it like that?

Yes. Then what makes heaviness more important than lightness or the rest of the perception?

Story.

Story comes from... it just appears. That which you call the mind is the story. But without the messages from the story, what is it inherently? Or what is it naturally, organically? Without the messages from the story, what is anything?

What is anything? Means anything that you perceive without the story, what is it? Either we can say everything or we can say nothing, but we cannot make distinguishing features like mine, yours, I want, I don't want. All that comes from the story.

Yes. Like, I don't know, we can add our conceptual meaning to the story, but we can never add what is to the story. This is the best pointer for today. You can only add a conceptual meaning to your narrative, to your story; you can never add what actually is to your story. One more time. Yes. So, you can only add a conceptual meaning that you think of; only that can be inserted into your story. What actually is can never be added into your story. That is the beauty of this life. It is too broad unless we are addicted to making it our story. Enjoy life without the need to have a story, and then the distinguishing between me, mine, heavy, light, up, down, left, right—all that will vanish.

But Father, it's not something that I do. It's just like happened so automatically.

Yes, but I am speaking to you as consciousness. Who are you speaking of yourself as? I am speaking to you as the only God there is. Who are you speaking of yourself as? Can there be other than God? Anyone other than God has existed? When we say 'I cannot do,' we are buying into the representation of ourself as a limited entity. And then if we bind to that representation as a limited entity, then better to leave everything to God and not bother with it. Either meet yourself as God and everything is happening in your life, or if you feel like you are a human under the care of God, then let everything be God's problem. Do not do both.

Second feel more close. That's fine. That's the part of surrender because I love this sense too, like I'm embraced, I'm protected, like I'm the child in Eden of God.

Yes, but then don't doubt that.

But I feel like I'm doing everything just on my own.

And then you're not the child protected by God again. If you feel, if you believe that, then the second representation is not true, isn't it? That you are a child taken care of by God.

I pray for it.

Pick that and then don't doubt it. And the outcome starts with 'but.' What is the knocking of the doubt on your door? Will you let it in? 'But Father...'

Like, okay, yeah, whatever I was going to say would come from here. So 'but Father' is to throw Father out and 'but' in, and it's ridiculous. Exactly. It became so obvious. May I admit something? Actually, my name is doesn't being called as Seda, it's called as Jada, but I see...

Yeah, but I don't know, when you first call me it was just so beautiful and I was like dumb and I didn't want to even correct it and I like it so much actually because I, you know... Jada is good. No, I don't like it. Seda is good. I like it. Whatever you do, thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Is it like in Turkey should be spent like this? Thank you. Okay. Om Shiva. Thank you so much.

Thank you, Father. I have some question. Like sometimes something is happen with me, I need to that moment like compulsory to forgot and ignorance. If I do that happens with you and then what... can you repeat the last part? Yes, sir. Something has happened with me, I compassionately made to forget that movement and ignorance properly. If I don't do that, then I become angry and something is like become a stupid mind, like yes, not empathy very much. So I need is all your graces to every time I realize this thing because before I did not realize, but now I realize after your graces. So please give me some guidance. But how do I fight this thought?

It's fine. I don't see trouble because what you... it sounded like, and correct me if I'm misunderstanding, is that sometimes some negativity comes in your head and if you don't forget about it, it feels like it can just grow and it becomes worse and worse, you see. So that is fine. Let it come and go. That is the best thing actually. And automatically in my soul you have every time guide me and I understand, realize you saved me. You can change only yourself, you cannot change to anyone in this world. Yes, yes. There you go. Very good. That's a very mature realization. Once you start living life this way, that the only thing to change is here, is it not here? Then that is where true maturity starts to bloom. And otherwise, the mind's propensity to blame outside, you see, is infinite. You can blame everything on the outside, you see, and no progress really happens within. No openness really comes within because the mind will always find something to blame. At night time, not yesterday before few days ago, I was going to Bangalore and being sustained with you and I feel so nice, happy, happy. So today I was brought some three lines for you. Can I?

Oh yes, I'd love to hear. Yes, thank you so much. With so much innocence and trust you sung this thing, it really touched my heart. Thank you. Thank you. It's about my heart actually. In my meditate, my thoughts, and I just want to sing this song for you. Last time also partly some... after I am this accident, I so much fully feel your graces. Before I am also listening, you're suffering every time, but not this consciousness. Yes, I'm be honestly telling you, not this consciousness. But after this accident, your graces I actually feel. I feel like you have saved me like this. Blessed, happy. I like that. Satyam homage, which means why are you living in centuries? Okay, we have Stephanie. Stephanie, my dear, you can come.

Yes, hello. Can you hear me? Yes, my dear. Maybe my birth starting but right now they are quite... I had to raise my birth. Can you hear me? Maybe what... oh, it's not loud enough. It wasn't very clear. I thought my birds were very much singing but now, now they stopped and it's better without. Maybe it's fine. I can hear you now. Yeah, okay. And I raised my hand because there was fear to raise my hand and I thought so I have to challenge and look what is there. And now there's no fear. But there was this voice which said, 'I feel so much blessed by God in my life, there's no pressure and so many gifts and I can really relax into life, into being.' And then comes the void: 'You are arrogant, don't speak about it. Look how others are,' and always try to compare, 'others are more shyland' and things like this. And I just, I just needed to expose it. But it's harassing me to raise my hand. There comes fear, 'you are fake.' But actually I'm so happy.

Very good. Thank you. Thank you. And whatever is coming from your openness, whatever is coming from your emptiness is always from God. Always from God. And the mind will always oppose this kind of naturalness. So just let go of the mind. Let it come and go. Don't buy into its representations that you're fake or any of that. Yeah, just be from past because right now it's not there. I'm just so happy and you, you're just such an open job to God's grace and you are God's grace for me so much. And so easy just to just faith in you. And then another mind attack says, 'Yeah, you should express it more.' Therefore I had to step forward.

Very well. So either position is mental, no? It's from the mind. So you just remain in your naturalness. It's all of you. Yeah, thank you. And I'm very grateful for the sangha that everything we just said and put out from other beings, it's just my own voice. I feel that such that's love and and it's always come back to just be and there's nothing, nothing to repair or nothing to improve. You give this these Father arms, his Mother arms, and it stays here. It's not leaving. It's just what it is. Yeah, I thought that I have don't have words, others can explain more, but now I just group too during this listening and so much joy. Thank you. I enjoyed hearing you. Thank you so much. Guard as well. Thank you. I wanted to say that Anna is happy and she seems to be blossoming and yeah, it's good. And we have some therapy for her and some good prospects in terms of support. So much gratitude from here. Thank you. Very happy. Great. Bless you all. Bless you all.

Hello, hello, hello. A lot of things that has been said before and subjects that are brought up by other before me are what I was, what what my question was concerned about too. But I thought I just wanted to come up anyway because what I experienced in in in life... you said, you said, I lost that song I think you said, about living like a child, yeah, in some child. And well, that really appealed to me because I feel not only a longing for that but also that I, I would be quite able to to live like that. But though although I, I, I feel the that I should want, I wanted to do things that come from the heart, I, I, I find myself doing things that I that I don't like and I just, it, it just, I just can't stop it. It's, it's like when I would wake up in the morning and and I have this idea, 'Okay, today I'm gonna do this or that,' usually something creative, and and then I end up at the end of the day and I, I see that I haven't done anything about that but I, I only find time to listen to satsangs. But during the day, like daily life, and um, it's, it's, I have this, it's like a like kind of mental habit of making lists of what I should do or should be doing or and usually those are tasks that are not giving any joy. So I'm, we talk about usually about habitual thinking, but this is kind of habitual behaving. But you, I just don't seem able to say, 'Okay, no more, I choose this.' And also if I do something, something creative, there's also always this mind sneaking in that is saying, 'Well, no, it's nice that you do something creative but it...' it makes conditions of like, 'it should be become this' or 'it should become that.' I think I'm clear. Thank you. So how to break that? We may have spoken about this before but I just want to remind myself. Did you feel enquire, like the inquiry is helping you at all?

Yes, it does. And and also I listen satsangs and recently there was in the retreat, Mooji's retreat, it's his most recent retreat, there is this few minutes of video in which he he helps someone seeing that that there is not even a me but there is only awareness that is observing, no, that there's only observing happening in awareness. And I, I, I, it appeals me. I want to, I see that I want to see that over and over again because I, I feel it's, it's getting somewhere that I...

Helping you at all? Yes, it does. And also, I listen to satsangs and recently there was in the retreat, Mooji's retreat—it's his most recent retreat—there is this few minutes of video in which he helps someone seeing that there is not even a 'me' but there is only awareness that is observing. No, that there's only observing happening in awareness. And it appeals to me. I want to see that over and over again because I feel it's getting somewhere.

That's very beautiful, very good. Yeah. So once you see that there is... your previous report, can you put it up without the notion of a 'me'? And if you want to replace it, you can say 'God' instead of 'me'. What would it sound like? God wakes up in the morning? I already thought it would be something sounding ridiculous. The sense 'I am' is consciousness of God itself. Yes. If there is no 'me', then what else is there?

So, okay, let me make it simpler. No, I... yeah, go ahead. If there's no 'me', I could... well, I don't know how if you can say 'I saw' or 'experienced' or 'I sensed' or whatever, but there is some... yeah, well, awareness is what there is.

Exactly, exactly. So perception being, you see, the play of light, sound—all of this is apparent within our being. And awareness, which is your true nature, your true self, is just aware of this aspect of your own self, which I call the manifest aspect of yourself. Yes. Now, from that standpoint, now actually it is not very different from the advice last time because a child, in the innocence of a child, is not taking itself to be a 'me'. It's not taking itself to be something that has to do something or it doesn't have to do something. It is just very light and easy and moment to moment.

Yeah, I experienced that too. That's when only the mind is bringing in past and future and it's not in the now.

So the trouble is never with any action in itself. No. So whether painting happens, doesn't happen, it's all good, it's all fine. This whole life is God's painting. So whether a painting is there within the painting or it is not there within the painting, it's all fine, you see. But the judgment that we make about ourselves within the play of consciousness, that can make the play seem either oppressive and troublesome, or if you don't make any judgment, then it's just open and empty and innocent like a child.

Oh, I try to follow what you say, but I'm just blanking out. Could you please say it again?

Only because you make judgments about ourselves, you see, does the openness and emptiness seem to go away and we get into the mode of desire or doer or separate from everything else. Without this kind of interpretive judgment, everything is fine. Whether painting happens, doesn't happen, we can enjoy God's painting irrespective of whether there is more painting within the painting or not so much painting.

Yes. But what about this kind of... what about this, I don't know if it's a popular saying or something, the statement that you should follow your heart?

Yes. We can only follow our heart when our head is open and empty. Yes. We cannot follow our heart with our head. No, no. How to follow the heart is only for the head to be open and empty. That is how you follow the heart. There's no other way to go to the heart, you see, and say, 'Please, I want to follow.' When you stop following the false guide, you see, the truth is automatically followed. That is the beauty of the truth. So all that is needed is the false to be discarded, not the truth to be constructed.

Yes, I can follow that. Yes.

So it's simple like that, you see. So in the same way, like what is the innocence of a child? A child is not relying on conceptual knowledge, on narratives, on these molds of the mind saying life should be like this, it should not be like that. Just in that openness and emptiness, yet there is a beautiful intelligence that is running even the life of a child, isn't it? That is following the heart. The same intelligence which makes a tree grow, makes the flowers bloom, makes the sun and the moon function the way they function, makes your heart beat—all of this is being done by that same intelligence already. So we are not being asked to surrender something big, you see. 99.99999% of it is being done already. Your breath is happening, your blood is flowing, your heart is beating. All the functioning of the universe is happening with light, sound, gravity, electricity. All of this thing is happening. What are we being asked to surrender? Only one tiny aspect of this existence, which is what our thoughts are saying. The surrender is in the tiny 0.000001%. If the rest of the 99.999% stopped working, then there would be no chance of anything else than you. If the supreme intelligence, the divinity, stopped functioning, then all this mental idea would be completely pointless in you.

I find it really hard to hear what you say and I see that I'm trying to figure things out mentally.

So that's why we have recording and transcript so you can always revisit the conversation. What I'm saying is that if the waking state did not show up, you see, which happens on its own in consciousness by the will of the supreme, then what to do in the waking state would be pointless. So who does the appearance of the waking state? I don't know. Is it the same consciousness, God, supreme? So the same one that gives us the state can also run the state. We don't have to feel like we're so powerful that we have to control this spirit or something. That is the same innocence of a child.

I hear what you say, but this thing comes back. I mean, it keeps saying that there is some... it comes back.

Does it make it true? No, not necessarily. What is the way in which we can validate the truthiness of it without just the notion of it being repetitive? If something being repetitive made it true, then we would have no chance. The Vedantins, for example, in Advaita Vedanta, they gave us a definition of what is true. They said that which comes and goes is not true. Apply that. Or whatever standard we want to apply, we must be clear about what is the standard of truth. But it definitely cannot be that 'something comes back' is the standard of truth. No, no. Is it? The appearance of a notion doesn't automatically make it true, even if the notion is repeated a hundred times. Just because a lie is repeated a hundred times doesn't make it true. No, no, no, no.

Well, it's this idea that previous beings also said, the question of what to do with your life. And I probably might have fixed some idea about that—only when I do something that is joyful, then that is what to do in life. Something like that.

Usually the notion of doership in the human condition takes the joy out of everything anyway.

Yes. You said something in the last session about the doership, that we only do that to complete ourselves because we took this idea of being limited, and somewhere in your being you know it's not right. I found it very clarifying, these three Ds: the duality of separation imposes a belief that I am separate, but in my heart there is a yearning for myself, my whole self. But the mind offers a proposition of desire—the second D, you see—to complete myself. And then when this proposition is accepted, that I want this so that I can feel more complete, then it presents the proposition that now you must do this or not do this so that you can achieve that desire of completion. So the three Ds are very interrelated in this way. I have not seen it before like that. So that was really clarifying to hear. Yes. Okay, I will keep on investigating. Thank you very much.

Thank you. All right, I feel like we have the last few now. Leela and Edgard.

Hello, hello. I'm on the same subject again. I'm just hoping that I can briefly... yes, it's the health of this body and there's a feeling that it's going to go soon. My father died quite a few years younger than I am, and I feel like I'm having a lot of things that happened with him before he passed away. No one knew; he kept going to doctors and they said, 'You're fine,' and then his heart stopped. And I'm having some heart things. Doctors don't have time to see me that long and convince me, and the follow-up tests may take several months. There's such a feeling that I need to do something, I need to push, I need to get them to believe me, which just makes them think I'm crazy and anxious. So what I would like to be able to just surrender that if this body is meant to go, that's what's meant to happen. Like Mooji always says, sometimes no one dies before it's time; whatever time it is, it's the perfect time. And I would like to trust that, but I guess I don't trust. I've been looking for little things on my body that I'm sure are a sign, and there are things that are different that have come up in the last couple of months that I don't feel are normal. But I want to feel like it's okay and if this is the plan, this is as it is. And there's also the fear that because I haven't died before I die, and I don't know that that will happen, but I want to feel, I guess, that this is the plan, this is consciousness. It's still part of consciousness's plan even if this one doesn't wake up, someone else will somehow wake up. So consciousness is going to be raised somehow by the whole thing. I don't know, I just want to be able to relax and there's such a feeling of doership about 'I have to do this, I have to wake up.' But the surrender that it's not up to me... I'm just asking, I guess, for blessing that I can see that hopefully now, right in this moment.

Yeah, sweet. I always find your report very innocent. It's so desperate; there's such a sense of desperation and it's very, very honest. There's no spiritual pretense, which I enjoy. Yeah, that's very nice. So you said a lot of beautiful things actually. Although there can be a fear about the passing of the body, you also identified how you could have a particular condition because of your father and his body passing away before the age of this body. So you also identified what led to this kind of conditioning being formed. You're able to look at it fairly objectively even though you may not admit that, you see. I can see a lot of objectivity there. And the thing is that surrender does not mean that you take a position either way. Surrender means we are open and empty, and in that openness and emptiness, sometimes you find yourself calling a doctor and saying, 'Hey doctor, there's something definitely wrong with me, man. You better look at this body, you know.' And then they just say, 'Okay, but we can't talk to you now, bye.' And that's okay.

Now they'll never treat me.

Yeah, in surrender there's just no real self-image to worry about so much, so it doesn't feel like you're insulted or put down or something like that. It's allowing of just allowing it to not call or to call without really relying on some sort of conceptual knowing that 'I do'. I don't know. Sometimes you can feel like if I just trusted then I would never call the hospital, but that's not true, you see. Within trust you can call the hospital also. Okay. So it is not the activity of the body that determines our trust; it is our inner openness. So as long as we are open and empty inwardly—provisionally I'm saying inwardly—whatever can happen through the body is just fine. Okay.

I feel that there definitely... I've gone through two doctors that don't want to take my calls anymore. Sorry, many doctors.

Okay. I'm not saying, by the way, that you must keep calling your doctors. I'm just...

Within trust, you can call the hospital also, okay? So it is not the activity of the body that determines our trust; it is our inner openness. So as long as we are open and empty inwardly—provisionally I'm saying inwardly—whatever can happen through the body is just fine, okay?

I feel that. There, definitely. I've gone through two doctors that don't want to take my calls anymore. Sorry, many doctors. Okay, I'm not saying, by the way, that you must keep calling your doctors. I'm just... okay, because that's a little bit how I'm interpreting it, like I better follow my hands because I want to be able to relax. And a little bit because I'm just so on it, not able to sleep. I've been sleeping only a few hours a night and it's just miserable. I don't want to be miserable. I know, trying to open to the misery, but not doing well.

Yeah, so in your openness and empty, you see, which means just allowing your thoughts as much as possible. And as natural, allowing your thoughts to come and go, like the host saying, you see, keep your front door and back door open. Thoughts are visitors; let them come and go. Don't support them.

Yeah, I'm serving them a lot of tea. And I have so much identity, it just... it's so there. I feel like such a... there's no spiritual pretense because I feel like I'm just so on the bottom of... like, I don't... I am... I feel so instantly identified with the thoughts.

And it's sometimes easier to just become free without picking up a lot of the spiritual pretense. Yeah, because the spiritual pretense takes a lot of chopping away. If there's anything that tires me in Satsang, it is the meeting of the spiritual pretender, you see, which is more tiring than meeting somebody who's showing us them. So that is... I enjoy that much. I enjoy this much more than that. So the different thing is that from our openness and emptiness, and all that is needed is in our heart to keep that intention to be open and empty, you see? And we are not to judge ourselves on how much that's actually happening or not happening, or whether we are worthy of it or not, or you know, whether we are doing well at it or not. Just our intention in our heart is to remain open. The rest is all left to Grace, you see? That's it. And from within that openness and emptiness, sometimes the call is happening, sometimes the call is not happening. It's all from... we're not to judge ourselves based on the activity or the movement in consciousness, just on keeping the intention of being open and empty.

You're using the word intention, just reminded me. I guess one of the other fears that I sometimes... sometimes Mooji says that, you know, if you don't get it in this lifetime, you're gonna... he said something that my mind picked right up on, then you start from scratch in the next lifetime. And I think, you know, he doesn't say that necessarily as a truth but as a motivating thing. But he said... I think I have a feeling to me he'd say, 'No, not you.' But I remember Ramana saying something... sorry, Rama... sorry, I keep interrupting you. Ramana, I read a quote that he said that even the intention to inquire or to reach this, just the intention even without any sort of success, is enough to sort of raise consciousness. So that's something that makes me feel like, okay, if I'm never gonna get it, at least even my attempt is somehow helping, somehow something, I don't know.

So yeah, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. This is the feeling in your heart. Just the keeping the intention to have the Darshan of the Lord, or to come to the recognition of yourselves, or to come to this freedom, you see, is good as long as it is met with an openness and emptiness, the notionless existence, instead of a feverishness of desire, of spiritual desire, which can then become an obstacle. If it is just kept as an innocent intention and then, you see, then you follow the guidance of openness, of emptiness, acceptance—whatever appeals to you, whatever spiritual guidance appeals to you—instead of it becoming like a feverish mantra of the 'me' saying, 'I want it, I want it.'

Yeah, mine is more 'I have to get it or else if I don't get it, this life is a failure.'

Yeah, sometimes we say these things in Satsang just when I feel like somebody is not paying attention to me, then something to shake you out of that sort of lethargy or something sometimes. But no, it is also the Guru's problem to make it happen. Okay, I should give away that secret, but yeah.

I think you've said it; you've said it many times before. But yeah, thank you.

So don't worry about the activity of the body. Just keep the intention to remain open and empty, no matter what, okay?

To kind of also be open that if it is the time for the body to go, that's okay. I mean, to not necessarily fight or, you know, to say, 'Okay, I think this may be happening and there's nowhere to go, so I'm just going to be here with this.' I don't know.

Yeah, that's fine. That's very beautiful. But I'm saying that if you find that you're fighting physically and you're calling doctors and saying, 'Something is really happening to me,' but you find yourself inwardly open and empty, then there's nothing to worry about.

Sometimes I think the calling doctors is more of a... it's the conditioning because that's what you're supposed to do. You know, if you feel this pain, call 999. But I'm not sure that that's always what I wanted. It doesn't feel necessarily right. So like, to maybe have the option that if it feels right to just be there.

Yeah, nobody can tell you whether when you call 999 tomorrow, are you doing it out of a conditioned fear or are you following your intuition from the heart? You can tell moment to moment, okay? That's why I don't want to tell you something like 'Don't call 999' or 'Do call 999.' I'm just saying that if you remain with your intuitive intelligence, then moment to moment you can follow it, okay?

That's one. Okay, I'm sorry I take so much time on this and it feels so self-body centered.

Everyone, because the action of calling the doctor can be replaced with whatever we are feverish about, you see? And you can just allow that to fall into like a conceptual emptiness and allow our intuitive intelligence to guide us whether it is needed or not moment to moment. And that has actually been the theme of this Satsang, if you notice, which is to not give guidance in terms of what to do or not to do, but to give you guidance into which voice to follow or which intelligence to follow when we are a bit lost about what to do. Yeah?

Is it? Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, almost at the end. Good.

Good morning. It's morning here. Good morning, Master. Keeping with the conversation, I can see when I'm empty and without intention, not in a conceptual way but rather like a welcoming whatever comes up in the moment. But there are some times when I can feel that, for example, I'm engaged in an activity and I kind of relax with the mantra that whatever is meant to happen is going to happen, but then I find myself opposed, being in opposition with things that come up. For example, when I'm too much time watching TV, such activities, you know? And like there is a... when I'm doing an activity, I can feel a kind of separation between the one who is watching the TV and the one who is judging, like 'You are too much time on this' or 'You are not doing well, you are not progressing spiritually.' And like, saying it now, I can say that even this separation is mind stuff. But in the moment, like, I can't stop because I'm so engaged in this mental judgment and I don't know how to get out of this. Since it is said that one should be empty, I can find myself that in the moment I don't feel that empty and that thoughtless, if that is a good word. And like I say, 'But I have let go already,' you see? 'I have let go already and this isn't working.' It's like the analogy you said, that one should be not even the experiencer nor the doer, something like that. The experiencer analogy, I find myself that maybe I have given up the concept of doer but not yet the concept of experiencer, and it's difficult for me, like, in some sometimes to let go of that. I don't know how to, if there is a how-to, and I find myself like intense.

Yes, very, very cool. First I want to say thank you because in your question I can see how much, how intently, how carefully you've been following Satsang, and that touches my heart because you've really taken the pointers to heart and you're implementing them in your life. So that is very good; I'm very happy to hear that. You see it now; you spot it very well. There are some activities, you see, like watching TV or something else, which the mind will judge and say, 'No, no, but this is not being spiritual' or 'This is not being open and empty.' But actually, I remember a story now. Many years ago, maybe six, seven years ago, one lady came and she was from Australia—she was an Indian lady living in Australia. So she asked me, 'Please, I need your help.' I said, 'Okay.' So she said, 'Can you please tell me your daily routine?' I said, 'No, no, no, we don't need to talk about daily routine.' She said, 'No, no, please help me because I just want to know your daily routine.' I said, 'I will tell you if you promise to keep coming to Satsang.' So I said, 'Yesterday, I don't know if I told her the whole day, but I said yesterday I was watching a TV show till 2:30 in the morning and I woke up this morning at 9:30 or something like that.' And that lady never showed up. Like, spiritual concepts can make us very heavy. It's very heavy. You can't live like this; you can't do this, you can't do that. But if you really inquire into it, what's the problem? If you're watching from a space of joy, openness, emptiness, what's the harm? There's no trouble with any of that.

So just like I was telling, and he's right, that is the same theme. It is never about the activity in itself, you see? It's always about the inner spaciousness. And I'm using the word inner provisionally, of course. As we are open and empty, all things can flow from there. The first silent retreat I attended with you, one of the nights, just for fun, he made us watch Kung Fu Panda. What is there? So no judgment about any of this stuff. It's just whatever has to play out in love. You don't have to progress as a spiritual seeker or something like that. You don't know how to progress. Like when we become open and empty, sometimes what happens is we exclude this piece of perception from the rest of the openness and analysis. We really become accepting and open about everything, but we remain very judgmental about this perception. But the entirety of the realm of perception has to be surrendered. Which, by the way, I'm not advising anyone you should watch more TV. It is not like the intellect only has the opposites. Watch more TV or don't watch TV is not that important. What is important is that how open and empty you are while the play of life is going on. So just like this, don't judge yourself on the basis of any of them. Now, in those moments where you are identified, be identified. It's fine, you see? When you're fully identified, you're identified. And the moments when you're not fully identified, don't judge yourself harshly for being identified. You just remain open and empty in those moments. It is then it makes it very simple, easy. All this spiritual pressure of being worthy and doing it well and doing it right is taken away from us. And just like let life function in its own natural view without us putting boxes about what is right, what is wrong, 'I need to do this more' and 'to do this less.' Believe all of that completely fine. And you're doing very well. You're following very well, very well. I'm so happy. Where are you logging in from? What country are you in?

Peru. It's America, in America.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Good, good, good. We've not looked at the chat at all, so we'll play the...

What-is is taken away from us and just like let life function in its own natural view without us putting boxes about what is right, what is wrong, I need to do this more and to do this less.

Believe all of that. Completely fine and you're doing very well. You're following very well, very well. I'm so happy. Where are you logging in from? What country are you in?

Peru. It's America, in America.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Good, good, good. We've not looked at the chat at all, so we'll play the bhajan and then I will go through the chat. It's amazing that so many of you are still here. It's been three hours. If you have things to do, work to do, or if you're really like done with this stuff, you're super bored but you're staying back because you don't want to seem disrespectful or something, don't worry about it. Just relax, don't worry.

I don't remember that. Nobody comes and goes from there. Now I'll stop. Guru.