The Highest Possibility for Us Is To Live in God’s Love and Light - 28th January 2026

My full love, my full blessings to you and your mother and everyone involved in this um situation.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Very very welcome. Um, are you getting any time at all to pray, to inquire, to focus on God in the middle of all of this?

I I try to to to to make the just be exercise and to sit in silence and I also try to to pray. But in this time I'm very easily distracted and I see how I'm following the mind and how strong the pull of the mind is.

Yeah. So remember that on the spiritual paths even the tiny turning towards God, the tiny turning in self inquiry, the tiny remaining empty and just remaining with the being, even these micro moments are helpful. So sometimes life is so full and situations happen that it seems uh like we cannot uh do I've said 2 to four hours of focus prayer and the rest of the time also to remain with God. But in many situations it seems that there is so much to deal with in the realm of Maya that it seems next to impossible to do that. Now in those times the perfect is the enemy of the good. You see? So what that means is that if you have this idea of perfect spirituality then it'll get get in the way of your good spirituality. So just u take one step you suddenly remembered God. I heard a beautiful thing from uh Hanuman Podar. He said when you remember God look at it like God has remembered you. So God is remembering you. So he is with you very much in that time. So remember to turn towards him and to love him. Give him your love in your heart. Even if it is for a few moments in these difficult times. Even if it is for a few moments in the day, it is still worthwhile. But all my all my love, all my prayers are with you.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome. In one Satsang I spoke about this. Our life is basically a love triangle. It's basically a love triangle. We have one Antahkarana, one soul. Now this soul can give itself to Maya or the soul can give itself to God. So this is our our triangular love story actually. Now one of them is u flashy, exciting, urgent, always wanting attention. You see the other one is patient, humble, loving, caring, always available. You see now in like in all movies you're first attracted to the exciting and urgent and you see instant gratification one then over a period of time we realize that that one is not good for us. You see we are meant in fact we are designed to be with somebody else. You see now that be with somebody else becomes one with somebody else. But we come to that first it is important to be with somebody else. Now so Antahkarana, Maya and God you see now how does this play out? You see how does this play out? Now our relationship with Maya has an intermediary as a middle person. Who is that? This is the mind. Correct? So when the soul engages too much in the mind, then it starts to take itself to be a limited entity, a me. And that me then seems to live within Maya. You see? So then I am living inside Maya. This world is real and God seems to be a distant thing, a conceptual reality. We can even live in Maya with the posture of spirituality. Just because last time we were saying just because we know a lot of spiritual words doesn't mean that we are living with God. You see it's just like we have all these hundreds of spiritual words as medicine in our medicine cabinet. But the important question is which medicine are we taking? You see, so what are we living? What are we inhaling moment to moment? You see, so when our Antahkarana gets involved with its faculty of the mind, then this entity called me seems real. And when me seems real, it is the world that seems more real or the only reality compared to God. Now on the other hand, how is our relationship with God? Who is the middle person there? This is God himself. But in the form of the Atma itself, you see, so our relationship with God is through the Atma. I'm making it simplistic. Okay? So not this is not the truth. It is just a template which will help us to point ourselves in the right direction. So when the Antahkarana gets involved with the Atma between the love of the Atma, the guidance of the Atma, the peace of the Atma, the virtues of the Atma and the devotion that Atma itself has towards God. Then we seem to live a different texture of life which is full of God's light and love. You see, so it is this battle between two ends of the spectrum which seems to make our spiritual journey a struggle because neither side is giving up. You see neither one is giving up. So it is not that I really I say I just want to be with God and the mind says okay done go. It doesn't give up that easy. And because our our very design our very true love in our heart is God himself. Therefore for the Atma to give up is not possible at all. But there's a difference in which the mind and the Atma seem to operate. The mind is more forceful, rushing, authoritative and pushy in nature and the Atma is more patient, loving. Um it seems like it has all the time in the world because it does. We don't. It does. You see, so at some point in our spirituality, we are able to distinguish between these two textures. What is calling us towards what? Am I going to the mind? And if I'm going to the mind, then I will be going towards egotism and taking myself to be an object within this realm of Maya. And if I go towards the Atma then I'm going towards both oneness and servitude of God. So oneness with God and servitude with God. So that is how our life is actually playing out. And this play happens in the battlefield of the moment. You see happens in the right now. Right now. So even if you spend the tiniest time with Maya that seems more real. If you spend the tiniest time with Atma, God seems more real. Moment to moment. See like that. That is why it's very important for our spirituality to bring us to spirit to the light of spirit. If our spirituality doesn't bring us to the light of spirit then it is what were we saying last time then it is Ravana disguised as a sage. See Maya disguised as a sadhu. So whether our spirituality is working, whether our practice is working, whether the pointers that we have when applied are working, only we can tell in our heart. Is our relationship with God deepening? Is our love for God growing? Is our humility growing? You see and strangely I'll tell you that better than all the fancier sounding ones if our humility is growing then our relationship with God is growing. This is if you need just one benchmark. If you just need one, how can I tell if I'm going more towards God or getting stuck in Maya? Am I becoming more humble? Is my humility growing or do I now have a lot of pride of my spiritual knowledge or any knowledge that I have? Please

Like if you ask me is your love deepening for God or your relationship is deepening I can say yes but I can't say my humility is growing. I'm not able to say it clearly but I know in my heart that the relationship is deepening but how I'm outside I'm not able to I see so much anger I see so much so I don't see how I'm more humble actually.

So let's say Radha from two years back and Radha today. Would she sorry would she accept more feedback today than 2 years ago? Like let's call it criticism.

Very tough. I'm still better or worse. 1% better. That's that little little.

It's a very slow movement father that itself that itself uh I don't want to say anything which will activate the pride but that itself to see that our humility grows slowly itself is humility the opposite of humility say I'm so humble you see now this is okay this is a very good point actually. So when we say that I don't think my humility is really growing then is that a sign of it growing or not growing?

Oh yes. That's also good way to look at it. That's that's like a reverse psychology.

I don't know what is it reverse psychology. But is it pride is it possible for a prideful person to say that my humility doesn't seem to be growing. It's growing too slowly. Yeah. So that itself we can see like 2 years ago I don't even know whether the importance of humility was clear to all of us including myself. It's only when after the prayer of the beggar servant came that I realized

That prayer of the beggar servant I was just reading a few days back even though I get stuck in the first line like it's I I can't like even I can't remember now but I know that I was getting stuck everyone to be a s humble me father then everyone take me to be a s make everyone take me to be a sinner I can I can stay there for a long time not going to the next line. So that's good. So every line seems like the same. There's no progress. Yeah.

But still how can I feel a deep I know there is that is no doubt. And I'm saying imagine that if 1% growth in humility feels like so much deepening in God. Huh? Now so much deepening is only one person that means I'm really low. All of us, all of I don't know what to All of us are really slow in in a course of miracles community. I don't there's a term for that. I don't know some slowly slowly. There is a change in behavior. If I look at it little bit here and there, there is a change but there's a lot of pride. Yeah. Like two years ago, would you have seen all that and called it pride? Maybe not same here. It would have seemed right. The more that we think we are right goes into the spotting of our pride, the more we are growing in that. Now this is a very uncomfortable part of a modern day Satsang. Talk about pride. Let's talk about just oneness with God can see but let's go to that you see. So the danger of that is just of course talking about oneness with God. The recognition of oneness with God the being in that oneness with God aware of the birth of presence itself is very holy. But many times we get caught in the conceptual ideas of oneness with God. Conceptual ideas of oneness with God and start to without realizing become more proud than when we started. Also more more anger and irritation today than 2 years ago. That's a good good way to check feel like I see the difference in behaviors but it's very slow.

So you see this is this is the key. This is the key. Once you start to see that I have such a long way to go then we remain humble at God's feet. That's how the sages were able to see. Kabir Ji himself said he's the worst.

I don't see him the worst. That is itself the biggest problem. I don't see it. Like they genuinely see.

So you have a long way to go but you're not the worst. No, I'm not seeing I'm otherwise I wouldn't have that anger and irritation and all that. My father. No, in the sense of when you say that you have a long way to go.

You start to see that 'I have such a long way to go,' then we remain humble at God's feet. That's how the sages were able to see. Kabir Ji himself said he's the worst.

I don't see him as the worst. That is itself the biggest problem. I don't see it. Like, they genuinely see.

So you have a long way to go, but you're not the worst?

No, I'm not seeing... otherwise I wouldn't have that anger and irritation and all that, my Father.

No, in the sense of when you say that you have a long way to go, what do you mean? A lot of work, virtues?

There are many, like most of the world does much more work than you.

I don't see that also.

Huh?

I don't see that. I feel I'm better in many, many, many ways, so I don't see.

So you're saying that you feel like you have a lot of work in this direction to go?

But most of those, let's say in this room, have even more than you to... You said you have a long way to go in relation to what?

To my own seeing, how much work.

But most of the others have a longer way to go.

Most of the others have a longer way to go. Oh, I don't see it that way.

Which way do you see it?

I never even thought of the others, actually. Maybe similar to me like that, or maybe some even worse, like I have that judgment. So I don't see myself... no way I see myself the worst. When in moments I, in my heart, I understand when a saint says that.

What do you understand?

I see that everything else is God. It's the dirt is only inside me, not in a selfing way. I see that, yeah, the only thing I miss is in me, like in my mind and everything else is just clearly God. There's no bad verse, nothing. So, it's just in those moments like when I'm saying it now, I see I'm the worst and yeah, all the dirt is...

In what way are you better than most?

In what way? Slow, Father. In what way am I better than most?

Than most?

Right now I can't.

What? Say it. Say it again.

Yeah.

You have a long way to go.

Yes.

But in what way are you better than most of the others?

When I look at it that way, then I see... like then I leave my heart and then I see from my mind that they have more pride or they are also angry or they are like this and they are like that in many different...

You don't leave your heart.

When I don't leave my heart, I'm the dirtiest. I'm the most... like I can't see... when I'm really anti, then the only work that needs to be done is inside here. Yeah. And when I'm not, then from my mind I'm seeing everything else dirty but me, actually. That's exactly...

Exactly. So where are we meant to see?

From the heart.

This is the utmost contradiction in spirituality, isn't it? And that contradiction, the heart is fully Zen. You see, the heart sees things which doesn't have the logic of opposites and therefore they can't be together. It doesn't have these restrictions. You see, so it is the heart which sees the sheer oneness with God and the sheer distance from God. You see now? When these words are spoken out like that to the logical mind and intellect, it sounds like neither here nor there. What is he actually trying to say? But those who learn to live in their hearts more and more, they will say like the one who wrote the Ramacharitmanas, which clearly is a work of the hand of God. There is no... and this is just one of the things that he produced in his life. So just to produce a scripture with so much beauty, with so much depth, with so much delight, with so much poeticism, with so much everything, you see, is clearly the hand of God. In fact, maybe we should call scripture that which is written by the Holy Spirit, by the Atma itself. So he has said in the scripture itself that he is the worst. You see, St. Teresa of Avila, while writing about the Seven Mansions, which is maybe one of the clearest road maps about the spiritual journey that the world has ever produced and clearly written with the hand of God, she says that she is the worst. You see, Kabir Ji says... Kabir Ji, one of the greatest saints, his depth of Gyan and Bhakti both put together and his ability to articulate them is unmatched in many ways, and he said that he is the worst. So as long as we continue to take linear ideas, linear yes and no, truth and false logic, you see, they are still caught in our mind, intellect. When we can accept that I am That and yet I'm nothing but the biggest, most foolish beggar servant, and these two don't seem to contradict each other but to give light and fire and love to each other, that means it's an indication that we need to just allow our heart to show us the mirror, not to gauge ourselves through the mental lens.

Father, I feel from the right, from the heart, when I see, then everything outside is to help me.

Yes, it's not... there is no mistake.

Outside, inside, whatever.

There is no mistake.

Until we start seeing it like that. And this is also very much... I'm just a beginner on this thing, but till we learn to live there, we will not be able to do what Hanuman Prasad Ji said, which is to see that everyone who comes into our life is just God dressed up as a human. Just God dressed up as a human, and therefore everything that we do, we do for God. Everything that comes to us is for our growth, is for our deepening. You see?

But if we keep thinking that we are better, then how can we see everyone as God? Then both can't... both can't be true in that moment for us. So, so this kind of difficult curriculum only the Atma can teach us. Only the Atma can teach us. That's why it's very important to keep surrendering our soul, ourselves to the Atma over and over again.

Father, even the internal battle, like you say, it's not a mistake. Like, it's like sometimes because my mind would say like I'm doing something wrong. I'm, you know, it's exactly what God wants in me for me to... so many times I just sort of fighting, I just tell God, 'Okay, what do you want me to learn?' because it changes the mode inside. Otherwise, I'm going into self-concern and I just say, 'Okay, I'm grateful for this,' just, you know, just to switch to the heart. Just show me what, because it cannot be a mistake inside, you know.

Yes, even Maya.

Or even outside.

Even Maya is not a mistake.

Maya is not a mistake.

In this, to complicate things even more, the first suitor is the second suitor in disguise. Maya is Ram in disguise. You see, or the devil is an angel just injected or infected by pride. Whichever sort of layer of understanding we want to put to it, you see, it is a fact that everything... there's nothing without God and therefore everything must be made up of God. And therefore Maya is also God. And yet the egotism, the pride, the life taking... taking Maya to be real and the 'me' to be real is not the life that is the highest possibility for us. The highest possibility for us is to live in God's loving light.

And there's so many... like we spoke of this, like it's so multi-dimensional. Like everything that I don't know about, like in the spiritual path, like everything that comes to you, at least I'm seeing it that way, like it... I can't say Maya... like I can't say how do I... I don't know what I'm saying, but I can't say that Maya is like, like you said, devoid of God or it's... maybe when I have the words I'll say.

That's good, that's good. That's why at the very beginning I said please don't take this to be the truth.

Exactly, this is what I want.

This is the framework that we use to deepen in our love and light of God.

Yeah, like nothing is the way we think it is, not even Maya.

Absolutely. Nothing. If you could think it, then all we would need is a thought.

Father, so in every... in everything there is a like an infinite possibility of the next, the next moment, because I don't know what...

Of everything, everything.

Of everything. That... so if you were to try and encapsulate reality in thought, it's...

With one thought we see clearly it is not possible. But how many thoughts would we need? That's why earlier in Satsang we used to say, years ago—I don't know whether it was years ago or last year—but we used to say, just capture this moment in thought and tell me what is this, what is this? And we immediately try to enumerate what we see in the realm of perception. But we leave out the elephant in the room, which is the one who witnesses all of this. That one is always forgotten in all our narrative. But the fact is that even the phenomenal perception cannot be really encapsulated. So at best it can point, and I'm trying to say that almost in a respectful way, to be able to point itself is not a bad thing. This is a concession compared to the past.

Father, I want to share what happened in Rishikesh. I just want to share it and hear from you. I don't even know where to begin, what to say, but I want to still say. I don't know where to start from. Like, I'll start from where I felt I should put up my hand and then let's see. So, um, I had a kind of a idea and a plan that I wanted to execute and which I thought will help people, and I felt like focused prayer. I even wrote to you the first day we're going to do two hours of focused prayer every day, etc. But that didn't happen, okay. And I wanted to do, say, whirling for a longer time, that didn't happen. I had organized a few things like Zikra for a longer time, that didn't happen. Um, and then I felt, Father, that people who come, I can't plan and go with them because every human, every person over there carries something which collectively makes the teacher move.

Yes.

And then even what I feel is good for them, there is no capacity in the cup over there, or because they... I felt like that, Father, that it'll be... I'll be forcing them to do something which will not make them...

It might be counterproductive. That may be like somewhere I am at, but I can't force them to do that. So you know, like that way, I mean the capacity...

And I would look at it this way, that the human here, if there is such one, which is not, but the implement of the instrument that we call the human here cannot decide this is good for Lean, this is good for Zenab, this is good for Claudia, this is good for... cannot. And even if they were to, it would be just too intimidating to then come into the room and say, 'Okay, now if I'm saying something good for him, it may not be so good for...' If I say... and the nature of words is that it's not universally good for everyone.

No, the words are not universally good for everyone.

So then, and also we know that life has put us in this space that people come to us for guidance, for help, for some pointers to help them on the spiritual path. So given that both are true, what is one to do?

Just leave it to Him. Allow Him to...

And that is a very humbling process. Father, that's what I wanted to say. Because of humility, it came up that I have never felt that I am so dry and dead and foolish, and I'm still happy about it. Father, I felt so much. I mean, when I wanted to tell you and I was like, how will I say this? Because I'll sound completely messed up and that's okay because it's already done. Now it's done. But I felt like consistently there was a message which I've never had in me ever in my life. I feel maybe when I was a lot younger, when I was a baby, I felt like there was a message. Look at that. I just felt so much joy. Can't explain it. Like there was a constant message that... and it was not in words every day, like there was a spirit every day in the morning in me that 'keep up the joy,' you know? And it was not fake because this kind of a sentence is not palatable to my ego because its condition is very depressive, because of its life experiences it's very depressive, and it would never allow me... I mean, I almost like not want to be around people who are all like happy and all of that.

I felt so much joy. Can't explain it. Like there was a constant message that—and it was not in words every day—like there was a spirit every day in the morning in me that said, 'Keep up the joy,' you know? And it was not fake because this kind of a sentence is not palatable to my ego, because its condition is very depressive. Because of its life experiences, it's very depressive, and it would never allow me—I mean, I almost like not want to be around people who are all like happy and all of that. I would not feel comfortable there because... anyway. So I felt constantly that message, constantly I have to keep my heart in a joy, you know? I'm going to live whatever I have, I'm going to live it in a joyful spirit, I felt. And this was really helpful. However, throughout my retreat time from day one, it was extremely hard because the teaching I was sharing with you is sounding very simplistic, but it's got such depth that it can sound very like basic and has no advanced spiritual material and nothing about deep Sufi concepts. Anyways, I don't know any—nothing about deep ways energy moves, this, that; I have no idea, right? So nothing happens like that to me.

So whatever little I knew, it was, you know, it's so simplistic to say dive into your heart and let the heart... and that God is one. I mean to say that Allah and Krishna and Christ are one and to keep saying that and take juice and joy in it, it's just too foolish, I guess, for the world. So I was struggling with some of that in the beginning and I felt like now I just had to do it, right? Then I felt like, Father, I felt so, so, so dry and so like—so dry, Father, I can't explain to you that. And I was so happy about it. I mean, I'm not happy-happy, but I'm happy, right? Because I don't know how to explain this very... I felt so dry, Father, so I'm such a horrible teacher, but I was okay with it because it showed me a mirror. Number one. Number two, it showed me that I have so much work to do, Father. And then it made me value... like, this is how it started and I'm not able to say it rightly. I want to say it again.

But how it ended on the last day was I felt like God gave me a chance. Like on the last session, everybody was whirling and I was standing on the side and everyone was having a good time, and I felt like this—I heard this very clearly in me—that God gave me a chance to literally take His name and go near Him and know Him, even if I can't do that right, I have the chance and I'm happy about that. I'm very happy about that. I felt that. And you know, it was in this light that there's a wish in me to be the best and there's a wish in me to, you know, competingness or a competitiveness and all of that. I mean, that started to seem so alien, Father, that I felt like I felt happy being that little flower, I feel, you know? I felt like very happy being the person in a part of a Satsang. I felt happy that I together with everyone, even if others got it like first time, I felt fully from my heart that even if others got it, I would be... so it's not about me. I don't know how to say it because it's sounding like words, but it's not like that.

So this part was very good, but when I look back and everybody asked me—Georgie asked, everybody asked today—'How was the retreat?' and I don't know, it was quite bad according to me because I was so... I'm so dry. Like, what am I supposed to give people? And there were moments when I enjoyed it because God showed me such beautiful things, you know. God showed me how filled with qualities that He has and God showed me so many things I felt, you know, and God like gave some people the taste of that. I enjoyed that. But overall, like, it's... I don't know, Father, it was not... it was usually like... I was talking to Jotika today and I was telling her, she's asking me questions on the retreat and it was helping me so much to see that before, I knew I will make people do meditations, you do breath work.

Yes.

Then you do some kind of silent sitting. Then you do some kind of, you know, physical whatever, active meditation, and after that you tell them stuff in Satsang. So in a progression, it works for that time and that was my hack, right? And this time there was no hack and I couldn't—I mean, I feel that way was so far away from me. I couldn't... it's not like I didn't care about the people who came. I loved them. I found them very sweet. They were real and they were very loving, they were reciprocating, getting the love. It was very sweet. But at the same time, I couldn't maneuver my way to their bhava, you know, or their or my peace, my protection or my good job. I couldn't maneuver my way. And it was so weird because I had no idea what was going on. I had really no idea, Father. And even the Satsang that I shared, I didn't want to. Even the zikra, I pushed myself because many times I didn't want to, and I shared openly—like Zara was there, whoever—I shared openly I found it very dry and moments I found it very good. Yeah, I didn't feel like so much like... I mean, I don't even know what to make out of it, Father. But I also saw you, I... okay, I saw—

Stop. Can I say something? Firstly, I want to say very, very courageous of you, very beautiful that you... when we make... like, I'm not able to do it in the sense that when we say that this particular offering is there and then people participate in that particular offering, then they have a particular idea, particular headspace, mindset as to what they should be receiving in that whole construct. You see, but to allow it to move without the agenda. Okay, the sharing of Satsang is the most humbling job if done truly and is the most prideful job if done badly. You see, now the most prideful job you've done badly, it's like if I have an agenda that all of the people who come should become followers of Ananta, you see, then I—like you said the word, I'll borrow it—then I will have the hacks as to how, if I just say like that, if I just do like that, if I just act like this, if I just do like that, then you try to create a system where you can make followers for yourself.

Or you say my agenda is more—not as vicious—it's that I want to spread self-inquiry. Then you say, 'Okay, now we do this step one, step two, step,' you see, you do that. Or you want to spread a particular line of spirituality; the agenda is that, so you can create your offering. But when the agenda is just God, God, you see, and you don't really... you realize first in humility that you don't have the answer for everyone, you see. And yet you allow yourself to be available to be vulnerable and to be used in whatever way that helps those who God has sent, then that's a very difficult challenge.

It did not feel as if I allowed myself to move. I'm just saying how it felt, right? It more felt that God put me out of moves because something in my day-to-day life must have changed that I'm not able to be how I am before now, and I don't know what way I am to be honest. So I felt like I am in a completely like a space where I'm just being moved according to what is around. I mean, I know it's the same thing, but I'm just saying how it happened live. It was not even when I went and sat there, my mind was like giving it to me that, 'Introduce yourself, say welcome to the Sufi retreat.' I made fun of it also. I couldn't be... I couldn't just do that stuff, Father. Welcome to what? Like, I just... what am I going to come and give some like formal lecture?

Can't use this for the next retreat.

Definitely. I was really like... and I gave first one hour lecture on all the gods and I didn't... I mean, everything I planned, Father, I bought so many books, I read them, I sent you, Father—you forget everything—I sent you, Father.

A different multiverse.

Seriously, you keep going. I sent you so many books, Father, so I prepared them, I read them. I marked so many. The first time, though, I read so much, nothing... I didn't even open it, Father. Once I opened it, I read about humility.

Doctor Who entering the phone booth and landing in a different universe.

It was like that. And constantly I felt nothing is great about what is happening here, that nothing is great. And because it's very hard when everybody is coming from with different agendas from different places, it's extremely hard to communicate anything of depth very quickly. It takes, I feel, weeks to defrost, and to expect that to happen in five days was... I don't know. Like, I didn't even expect after my first day. I was quite humbled, Father, and I didn't know... I mean, it was hitting me that, 'Listen, it's not about people feeling good.' It was hitting me like that, that it's not the like a childish idea that I'm carrying that this is how... because I have this idea, I feel I was carrying this idea that in five days this is what happens to people. I mean, these were not spoken things that my mind said, right? But I feel like I've picked up this stuff, maybe from my Osho conditioning or whatever, maybe with my own experiences there, that I feel fresh and I feel empty and you feel almost like you're floating in the air after, you know, constant meditations and all of that.

So, and it was hitting me that first of all, that's not it, and the way inside is a lot of clearing the stones before you, clearing the soil before you reach water. And I myself am to do that, and that my heart is dry of that water, and whatever little I have, I have to be there constantly and I can't impart it. There moments I felt it was flowing, that water was coming up.

It is very important that 'I can't impart it' is very important. It has to be only His grace flowing through this instrument or any instrument who can impart it. The living water what you're talking about, the light of spirit, is the living water. It is not a personal possibility for anyone to give to another. It's only when that one turns towards God's presence in their heart, when the Atma decides to, in its grace and mercy and kindness, decides to gift the soul with its love and light, only then can it be imparted. You see, so it's very, very important. So, and this is what keeps us humble because what are we really doing? We only saying, 'Take this medicine. You may be able to turn within and then report back and say what is happening. Are you able to turn within or not?'

If somebody says to me, 'Ananta, I turn in every day. I go to that place which you talk about and nothing is happening. Nothing is happening.' You see, what more can I tell them except to be patient and to remind them of Ma Shabri and to remind them of all the ones who had faith for much longer? But there's no further advice that we can give after that point where recollection—where we actively recollected—where God pulls us in or not, we cannot determine.

Father, but it's very hard with new people. I'm sorry, when people have no background of it, it's very hard, Father. I've got a super hard job. I accept this and you know, I want to say—

See what happens when we accept that we have a super hard job. What happens then? We surrender to God. You see, not only do we have a super hard job, we have an impossible job.

It is, it is impossible.

So once we see that it's impossible, what can we do?

I feel it's impossible for me also, not just me doing it for them, right? I'm also party. I'm also a student in that, you know, I also need—

Impossible for everyone. That's just God's grace which can make it happen. Our job is the 0.1% of the job is ours. You see, and that too... like God is done, no? Like Krishna picked up Govardhan with one little finger and then he said, 'Come help me, come help me.' Then everyone came with their sticks to help, you see. So He just makes us feel... it's just humble like that. So He wants to make us feel like we are doing something. So even our turning away, our being with Him, actually is nothing; it's just some part of the movement in this phenomenal appearance. The rest of it, the magical part, 100% He does.

0.1% of the job is ours, you see. And that too, like God has done it. Like Krishna picked up Govardhan with one little finger and then he said, 'Come help me, come help me.' Then everyone came with their sticks to help, you see. So he just makes us feel—it's just humble like that. So he wants to make us feel like we are doing something. So even our turning away, our being with him, actually is nothing. It's just some part of the movement in this phenomenal appearance. The rest of it, the magical part, 100% he does.

Father, maybe this is it. Now I feel I'm getting some clarity on why it was feeling like that. I felt—I'm just saying it very candidly—that I felt that I'm able to pray deeply and my life is being touched by something. And I felt like this time if I go, I'll be able to share some of that, right? And when I saw that it has nothing to do with me sharing any—like, I can't. I can't even say it.

Yeah.

I mean, like, the sense is both that it definitely brings a depth to what is being pointed to.

Yeah.

And yet we have no control over it because of that—like for them to experience it. I can't bring it. No control over it.

Yeah. So then what happens is many times that we share and we can feel whether it is coming from the heart or not, you see. And you notice that the more you've mined the heart, so to speak, the more depth seems to be emerging out of that; words seem to be emerging out of that, you see. But whether it works for the audience or whether they are pulled in or not, again, is completely up to him. So we can't say, 'Okay, Lean has come for one month. Week one: beyond the senses. Week two: beyond the mind. Week three: beyond emotion. Week four: sitting in the holy place. Week five: light of Atma. Week six: I see I am that itself.' Like, I'm making fun of it, but actually in our mind, we would love to make a curriculum like that, no? And say, 'Six weeks God-level realization.' You see this thing? So it doesn't work like that at all.

And then you start to see—like, what I'm happy about in your report is that I feel like you are truly attempting to bring people to God, to serve God. You see, you are not trying to serve yourself, which is the great step, which is the great step. If you—and you will—if you keep up on this way, then God's grace is always upon you. The minute it becomes that 'I'm here to serve my purposes' and 'to serve my purposes, therefore I am telling you like this and I feel like that,' you see, then it's more the 'me, me' which is being shared in the guise of satsang for God. Then that becomes contaminated; it becomes—it's not really satsang anymore. So to feel that, remember that true satsang, true prayer, true anything to do with the spirit will always leave us more humble than when we started. Prayer always humbles me.

We were just talking about it the other day, that we feel after prayer, 'I'm going to feel like I'm the king of the world.' You won't. So Maya always takes its toll and prayer always humbles us. It takes its toll means that if we indulge in it, it'll take a tax. You see, the tax may not be visible. It may be God's grace mellows it, puts a balm on it. But the tax has to be paid. And when we go to God, when we inquire into our nature, what we really are, even in the awakening where we have a very deep insight into oneness with God, you see, in that true awakening, if we allow ourselves to remain in our heart, we come with head bowed down and not with 'I am God now.' You see? So, but if the mind takes hold of it, the mind can very much take hold of the memory of an awakening experience and therefore make itself special and then come into that mode. That's very possible. So there are ego traps like landmines everywhere on this path, on the spiritual path. So that's why we are told that the lane is very narrow. It's a very narrow lane; can't squeeze yourself in at all. Can't squeeze yourself.

Father, I want to say two things. One is that I felt that I want—even though I went for a Sufi retreat and there were only Hindus there—and I wanted to give them something which would last for them. So I told them, 'Just take any name of God and then you just keep repeating that in non-session time.' So we did that. I started with that. So they didn't feel overwhelmed. Like for me, I love the name of Allah.

It's so important just to say Allah. Allah. I've had some real taste. I feel every time I've chanted it for long, it's same as for me saying Radha Radha. So for me it's—but I saw for them it was like a resistance, yet they came. So I didn't—I wanted them to not struggle so much.

Them also to know that you're open about...

Yeah. I wanted to communicate that very main point that I said, that you know, just because five of us on earth decided to name that nameless one doesn't mean that that tag belongs to him and we can fit him into that, you know, the really small planet—we can't fit him into that name. And I kept saying that throughout.

And even if the names of God...

Yeah, I clarified that also.

Come from the Atma itself, come from the light of spirit itself...

Yeah.

Doesn't mean that once the spirit has said that, 'Oh, that's it.' You see, spirit has made God accessible to everyone.

Everyone.

So in everyone, it will produce the light which is needed for that one to follow. And in the hearts of the sages, in the hearts of the great ones, then these names were given by God himself in the form of the spirit. So, but it is not that it was said, 'Now this one—after this I'm not going to come and give you anything.'

Yeah. Yeah. So Father, like the other thing I want to say is that there were times when I would go to session and I would go planned every time that we'll do zikra, we'll do whirling, but that never happened even once. So I would just like—sometimes it's like a more casual, not casual, but the topic is like somebody may ask something which was not like a very inward dive, but it was like a clarifying of something that needed to be cleared. And in other satsangs, maybe one, two, three—maybe two or not more than two—then it was the space to maybe contemplate that how we have to let go of all that is false from our soul and then, you know, how the deification of the soul—like I shared with you—that really like gets me. And I want—it just came naturally to, and that was a very deep—like, it was my preferred space. However, that other space also was happening more in a way. And I don't know if—like, how do you see both these, just to understand?

I agree that if it was up to me—and I often try to do this—it doesn't work. And I realize it's God's grace it doesn't work. But I often try to do this and say, 'Talk to me about what happens when you go to that place which I'm pointing you to. Don't talk to me about other things.' Many times I say like that, and then I realize that no, I have to love those that God has sent me in the way they need to be loved at that moment.

Yeah. That's what I...

So I have to keep even that preference aside because it's my favorite...

Exactly.

Expression or my favorite thing to talk about. Doesn't mean—because then if somebody comes new and they are talking about, 'But I'm having trouble in my relationship,' and if I say, 'Talk to me about that holy place, that temple in your heart where God lives,' you see, they will say he's talking about some conceptual thing which is so far-fetched from reality. It's not real for them yet.

Yeah, exactly.

So if I remove myself from the picture, then I'm not able to predict which way the conversation will go. Sometimes it comes about that and sometimes it comes about this, you see. So again, it's again an exercise in humility only, that I have to remove my preferences from the picture. And many times I exhibit my preferences in satsang to say, 'No, no, talk to me about that,' but then it never becomes a rule that 'How could you ask me a question like that?'

So that's okay, right? Because...

Yeah, because you realize that that question may lead to...

Exactly.

Something.

Maybe it helps them that's in the way and then they can be—they can find more space to meet the rest. I felt...

And it's because we are excited, we are passionate about something, then that becomes our agenda for how God must be shared. So our attempt should always be that we are agendaless, really. You see, so you enter, you say, 'Today I'm really going to talk about the unperceivable nature of Atma within and yet how it can be met.' So suppose that topic is very nice for me, you see, but when the question comes, it is seemingly very different from that. So but my job is to love the one who God has sent. You see, love means love, not—like it's said, love is only love if it involves God. So what is the tiniest step that I can take that they may become a little open towards receiving God's darshan in their heart? God's light in their heart.

Yeah. And again, we don't—like, we don't even plan that.

No. Yeah.

Yeah. I felt like everything I did was so dry. I just felt farther from myself.

I feel like you're looking at everything that you plan to do and you're noticing the futility of a lot of that. And what flow had to flow that way. It cannot be—imagine that if you went and did a retreat and 20 people came, say, and you just like looked at them and they were like, 'God, God.' This one looked at God, God looked at God. You see, then you would come back with such a swollen head. 'I have the power,' you know? So God is merciful for all his children. For him, you are not teacher and they are not student; they're all children. So he did the best for all of you, which is all that can happen.

Father, I also noticed—like, I noticed some really prideful tendencies also inside me. Okay, like my ways of—like, there was this lady. She was really difficult, Father. She was so hard. Like, if I'm talking about like the most—I don't know—and she would just, if I'm talking about how we have to come to the heart, she'll talk about how the parents, biological parents, are the center of life. So she'll just switch the topic like that constantly. Some of the things she said were very good also, but by the end, Father, I just—anything she asked, I just said, 'Please give me a moment,' and I didn't go back to her, Father, because it was so difficult to deal with that. She was some—and I tried telling myself she has a condition which—and I saw it also like that, I didn't just tell myself. I could see she has a condition which likes to argue or debate or likes to nag, something like a woodpecker she was. And I felt—I felt that one, of course...

It's very—and you know, you have—you bring people to that. It happens and then it goes. You're sharing satsang, everybody looking blissfully in agreement with you, one person looks at you...

Constantly for five days. And then I remembered you said it's so good for you.

Yeah, it's so good for us. Like, there were few kids when I just started sharing satsang. I was your age. And at that age, it's also easier for people to be skeptical. Because she was double my age, Father. So exactly. So then when I started sharing satsang, then there were people that, you know, that you have said XYZ, they are going to definitely go and say, 'But ABC.' Something just to argue or just to, you know. So there are few things that happen. One is it's very good for our humility, especially when we're starting to share satsang. It keeps us grounded. Second is that we realize that sometimes something happens to people when they have an audience. I don't know if you noticed that, right?

You know that you have said XYZ. They are going to definitely go and say, "But ABC." Exactly. "But this one I said, but that one has said." Exactly. Something just to argue or just to, you know. So there are few things that happen. One is it's very good for our humility, especially when we're starting to share satsang. It keeps us grounded. Second is that we realize that sometimes something happens to people when they have an audience. I don't know if you noticed that, right? So what happens is you talk to someone, they're very friendly, loving, very kind one-on-one; then they come to a satsang environment and they have a mic and, you know, people are there, and they suddenly feel like, "Now this is my chance to show people how much I know and to build my own following" or something happens. I don't know what happened. The ego uses that opportunity to be seen as special in some way.

That's what happened because she traveled back with Zara and they are here and they said she was very sweet, she was very kind.

That happens. So once what happens is once you have an audience, a captive audience at that, and then you have the mic in your hand, then something feels like, "This is my opportunity to show what I know, show what I think."

You know, Father, many times even before, like in when I—

But it's good, sorry, but it's good for them also. It's good for the teacher's humility too when somebody says, "But like this, like this, like this," and you just said, "But like that, like that, like that." Then it's very good for our humility to say, "Actually, there's a point in what that one is also saying," you see? So that keeps us humble. And second, it's good for their humility also because inside them it was sounding very great, you see? When they said it out loud, they didn't get applause or they didn't get followers, so life was doing a check for them also. It's making them also humble. So when things are brought out in the open, then mostly people are not so quick to give their consent, to give their availability of being impressed or something like that. People are very skeptical initially. So that's also a good check for them when they share that.

She was very attacky, Father. She just told me about her experience and I said—out of concern—she said, "I was seeing halos around trees and, you know, for two years I had bliss." So I said, "I can relate to it because when I met my Guru, I had some bomb blast experience also and I can relate to it." However, because there were so many people and I didn't want them to feel that common spiritual idea that when you see things and when you have halos and when you have awakenings and all of that—because I told her it's taken me time—so I said, "Guys, it's not about seeing halos, right? What did you feel in your heart?" Her ego reacted so badly. She was like, "How dare you?" She just didn't say that, she said, "I made a mistake telling you. I shouldn't have told you. I thought you will understand." So then I was like, "Listen to me, listen to me, listen to me." Then I tried telling her, "This has happened to me also, I've also fallen for it for years."

They also hate that.

Huh? They hate that?

And if somebody says this thing. Yeah. Like one man, very sweet man, he was in satsang with me for many years, five or six years. He used to join from a different time zone and he shared with me something that he saw—this light and this cosmos and this happened and this happened like that. And then I said, "Yes, yes, I can relate to this, but the real question is who witnessed even that?" So we don't want to hear that.

No.

You feel like they want to hear the specialness in that experience itself.

And if somebody says—even the teacher they've gone to has said—"No, no, I can relate to this."

Like, "No, that is special only for me. You can't relate."

Oh yeah.

So the minute you say, "I have had this," then that for her is an insult because she's put that experience on a pedestal and said, "No, no, that is very, very special what happened with me." So if someone says this child who's, you know, in her thirties is telling me, "Oh, I also had something like this."

And she had this same reaction. She said, "No, no, you're not understanding." I told her, "But I really understand because I chased it so long. I thought that is it," you know. And for some, like what I was saying is—

And somewhere at some level we also admit, do we really understand?

No. But I got the taste. No, that I got. She said that—

I've been looking for that, and when I heard that, I got the taste of the pain it will cause her, right, of going on chasing that.

Exactly. Yeah.

So this man stopped coming to satsang. And then he came ten years later, seven or eight years later. And he said, "So nice to be back and to talk to you and all that." And he said, "I want to tell you about this experience that happened with me many years ago." So he told me about that. His daughter told him, "Papa, you're still stuck on that?" I didn't even have to say. So his daughter told him and he's like, "You shut up. You don't know what's the importance of this." So that's the trouble with spiritual experiences. That's why we keep emphasizing in satsang: take it as prasad, take it as offering, not as the Darshan itself. You see, because these things can become really attachments for us. And we can't blame them for being attachments because if you're not with a true teacher and you're doing some meditation practice, you're doing something and you have this mind-blowing experience, you see, they feel like, "This is the sign that I'm coming closer to God or coming to the truth or there's something progressing in my spirituality." So they don't want to hear anyone undermining that and saying, "Oh, this happens. It's quite common."

She undermined herself. She said that—

But others can't do it, right?

Yes. Yeah. You can say anything about—it's like, "But that's with everyone, even I do that." But Father, like, what other thing I saw in her, she had a very loving heart. She was doing whirling. Her mouth was saying, "I'm not having any great Sufi... I'm not feeling I'm in some great Sufi caravan that I have imagined," or you know, but when she was whirling, I could see she was holding a hand on her heart while doing zikra. I could see she was not holding herself back from doing it. So then I was seeing like how the ego—how belief, concepts, ideas, and ego—don't want to lose territory. They want to keep that territory captured. And how a person has such a sweetheart in spite of that, and how that fight... and with age how hard it was for her because she was above sixty-five, I think. So it was hard for her to come and listen to a young girl, and that tug was sad to see, Father, somewhere.

Sharing of God genuinely from the heart is very good for our growth. It's very good for our growth and that's why I keep encouraging all of you to share, whether it's in like these formal settings or informal settings. We must not hide the light in our heart that God is blessing us with, but be prepared for a lot of resistance. Be prepared for a lot of resistance because to turn away from Maya—or for those who are attempting to serve God, to become servants of God, to turn people away from Maya towards Him, not towards other objects in Maya itself—you see, then that is very, very humbling and you get all kinds of resistances.

It leaves you also so shaken up. Like in me, I feel very nourished and very shaken, like it's both.

That's it, that's it.

You know, I feel like because you have to open your heart to them and it's not comfortable. When I came back today, I don't know, I did not feel collected and yet I knew I did what was needed.

Yes. So what is the—as you are hearing this testimony, I want to ask also everyone: what stops them from sharing God? One is this modern—isn't it always fear? Fear, no? Fear. Exactly. Like one is this modern idea which we must discard now that one day there will be one enlightenment certificate which will be given to us and the enlightened one. Now, even if you had an awakening experience, is there a guarantee that after that awakening experience you won't become the most prideful, the most detrimental to God's light? It is completely possible. So we don't have to wait for that. We can start. And that's why we had the Heart Temple movement saying every weekend some of you can call some people around you and share God's light without making it about yourself, without making it about a particular path, without making it about me, just to share the truth of what you're finding. Now, if you feel, if you genuinely in your heart you feel that you're not yet at that place where you can really confirm anything from your heart, then take your time, there's no rush. But if it is just fear, like she said, if it is just like, "What will people think?" you see, or "I'm reporting, I'm hearing the reports of these ones and it seems like there's a lot of work, it's not easy. It's squeezing to the ego. It's humbling." All of these things. Then we must not give into that fear. You must share God's light. If you see that truly, if you see zombie life versus a truly lived life and you're in that process, then why will you not give that same vaccination to your brothers and sisters? So why did many of us stop? And I don't know what happened really, but people maybe stop responding or we were expecting a particular outcome and it didn't play out. But we cannot fall into that kind of fear of judgment and things like that. So we must in whatever way—so like Mira, there's Sufi retreats, world satsang, all of that. Then somebody can do whatever, you can just do devotional singing because satsang sessions in your house, like at the Art of Living, satsang used to be just the singing of bhajan. So we can do that. I feel happy that even if there were twenty people, half of them said, "No, no, this is not for us," at least one would have been touched by God's light in this process. Of course there'll be much more, but I'm saying at least one would be touched by God's light in that process and may come to God, so that one itself is very valuable.

Yeah, I feel like people by the end they... because one day I was crying when I woke up and I was sharing with some of the sisters here also on one of the groups that we have. I was crying and venting and then again I reminded myself, "Don't let the joy die in your heart and you're not going there out of compulsion, you're going there to help your brothers and sisters, you're all in it together." I told myself and again and again I told myself that, and then I went and I shared with them openly that I was crying and, you know, I was feeling so overwhelmed that how I am feeling, I want you all to feel like that, and how only God can do that and I feel like a handicap when I come here. I told them and they were very encouraging then, Father. They were very sweet. And I could see that—

Nobody asked for a refund. Well, I'm just kidding.

Zara asked what? But Father, I want to ask one thing now. On the last day I was telling Danish—that boy, he whirls so well, Father, he whirls so nice. I could feel like for some people that meditation fits, you know? And so I was telling him that, "Danish, you have to whirl every day. Even I whirl every day and, you know, it really helps me and it fits me like I saw it fitting for you." And he's not able to do a job, so I said this is someone... he's in his twenties, so I thought like this will at least motivate him, you know? And I said, "This will open a way for you for even doing the zikra." And then there was this other student from Delhi and he keeps coming and I was telling him... then I felt like, supposing Father just told me that, "You know, Ma, you have to do this and it's fitting you and why don't you do—"

Every day, and you know, it really helps me and it fits me. I saw it fitting for you, and he's not able to do a job, so I said this is someone—he's in his twenties—so I thought like this will at least motivate him, you know? And I said this will open a way for you for even doing the zikra. And then there was this other student from Delhi and he keeps coming and I was telling him. Then I felt like, supposing Father just told me that, 'You know, Ma, you have to do this and it's fitting you and why don't you do it,' and then he did not walk with me? I don't think I could have walked with—like just heard it and done it. I'm not that smart myself. How am I expecting people who don't have that environment, who are living in the world now? I was gone ten days and I saw how it is. It's a very full-on way, because I was in their way, not that one of me couldn't be like kicking them in my way, right? I was like somewhere going with that flow over there and it was unlike the flow I have at home. So then I felt like, but I need to make them do it. I can't expect them to do it. Because I crib that my kids come every retreat and they don't practice, but how much have I done to help them to walk with my brothers and sisters day to day, like how you have held my hand and walked with me? And you have really shown me that. I mean, I could not even forget it in I don't know how many lives, Father, how much you've helped me.

Well, that's the thing about reincarnation. Okay. What is it?

Forget.

Oh, okay.

I might forget it next life, but this life I can't. Okay. So, Father, then I had that dilemma that the pedestal is so poisonous for me. And I hate the taste. Like this time it was humbling because I shared after a long time. Even this time I had ample moments where I was feeling like I'm God and it was disgusting and I was snapping out and I was hating myself for that. So I have had my moments, but that dilemma happened that I must walk. God sent these people to me and they tell me clearly that, you know, we—and I can see it—we are so bonded. You know, it's we are bonded and now they come every year. Even if I go out thrice, they will come thrice. If I call them anywhere, they will come. So if there are these—there must be ten, fifteen of them—I don't like, I don't want, I don't want the pedestal, and yet I want to do what I have to do and I don't know how to do both of them. So I wanted to ask you this.

It's a tough one. It's a tough one because this is one of Maya's inbuilt tricks to short-circuit the process of more people turning to God: to take the teacher itself to pride. So yeah, that's a tough one. Like I may say to all of you, why don't you do the Heart Temple movement, and I might try to make it as organic and about God and about His light and the way to Atma Darshan, all of that. But somewhere, if someone gets an audience, then it's very easy to make it about themselves.

It happened, Father. It happened with me and after I just took a break. I feel good. I feel like I feel good in my break. I don't have the wish to share, Father, but it came very—like it came out of my concern.

After ten years of sharing Satsang, I was definitely going in that direction of making it about myself. It's only—I don't know how in God's grace it happened. Because it cannot be seen through the eyes of your vasana. You see, because yes, children will always say, 'No, no, no, you're good, you're fine, you're good, this must be good for us, that's why you...' so all these things happen. So God had to send all those authors, Kierkegaard and talking about Abraham and Isaac, and to see that I have a long way to go. After ten years of sharing Satsang from a pedestal, it was not easy. And there are hundreds, maybe thousands of conditions that still operate from here which God reveals to me in prayer, in inquiry. But I'm so grateful for this life. I have to say that at the end of the day, I'm so grateful for this life that He has given me the highest opportunity and the highest possible feeling also—the highest opportunity of shining His light, of being an instrument of His light, and the highest opportunity to feel on the pedestal as well.

Share something really crazy, Father, it just came to me. You know, before—like I have, of course, I'm very enamored by you and you're my Guru and I look up to you and I'm going to emulate you. And initially when I started, even till last time, I felt that it's very crazy, that's why I'm saying it. You know, something would happen if I looked at somebody for a long time and then I would attribute it to something, you know, like 'Wow' or divine or godly or holy or whatever. And one time it was one of my kids, he was so much in his head and then I just looked at him like that and I realized that he was in his head and now he's not, right? His attention is here basically. And that feels very freeing for somebody who's completely in their head, right? So I saw that that switch happened for him. And this time I'm saying this—I don't know why I'm saying this, maybe it'll help somebody who does it tomorrow—that, you know, there was no wish to do all this. I'm so—like these things were feeling like just keep...

How you do all this? Teach me also.

I'll teach you later. It's my private trick. I can't teach it in front of you, to take people out of their head.

Then please teach me.

I'll teach you. I hear you. I hear you. It's—I'm learning these things. Sometimes it happens naturally, right? But you know, I didn't even—I don't want any of that. It's—I can't explain it. And so it's taken out all the juice from the retreats, right? There's no—so now what to do? So I felt people are getting bored, people are... and then I remembered you said...

You sit from here and see the audience when I talk.

They at least come over and over again, Father. These ones will not even show up, I guess. It's okay. I just wanted to say this is just—I'm just seeing how dumb I've been and I'm sure I can't see most of it now.

Is doing very well. Very bad.

What am I supposed to do with this thing now, Father?

No. What this thing?

No. This previous question that: am I supposed to help them? Am I? Because if I message them and ask them, they're not able to do it in that way. You know, if I...

You mean the new ones that came to the retreat?

No. All the ones who want help and they're not able to do it on their own. You know, then how to go about it, Father? Because am I supposed to share with them? Am I not? Because I don't want to go back into that pedestal mode. It's very—actually it's a little scary to go back in that.

Why don't you do it in the Heart Temple movement structure? Do it like we said. No, the Heart Temple movement. You call people to your house. You just share with them.

That's what I used to do, Father. Yeah. Yeah. But this time, no, like...

Say, Father.

This time, no pedestal. But pedestal creeps in, you know, Father? It creeps, I don't come to know. It's not my intention. Last time also it was not my intention. Pedestal you realize much later, you're deeply in it. It creeps upon me. I'm not that strong.

Those who are realizing it must continue to share. You know, it feels like I'm really risking my life to share. It really feels like that. See, once it becomes clear that it is about the audience of One, and not the audience of many in front of us, you see, then our heart will not let us waver. Once it seems like I'll give something to them and I need something from them, you see, then it becomes a worldly give and take. Then that purity of where you want to come from will not be there. So it must not become a give and take in that way, because we just make ourselves available, God shares, and the only job is to turn everyone towards God. God. Okay. You must never become, you know, that 'Oh, I am the teacher, I am...' and we notice these things. Like, once you're becoming vigilant now, you're noticing these things, like how the teacher persona comes. And I just talk about—it's so yucky here that after so many years of sharing Satsang, I can't get rid of Ananta sharing Satsang. No. So just attempt to be as transparent and to be a transparent window into God's love and light is very humbling.

Father, you really feel like that? Because when you told me, like, I just visualize myself sitting in my heart.

Even right now in this conversation, I feel.

Yeah. I can fully relate. Father, how much can I relate?

You feel that there's God's light. There's what you want to share in the heart. But that Ananta will also come and put one spot on it. Say like that. So just...

It's so yucky and it's so beautiful together. Like I feel God so deep.

The thing with that yucky one is that it's like a worldly drug. So that may feel like—I've seen, I've never been a smoker myself, but anytime you see in the movies or you saw your friends and they take the first smoke, they're like, 'Why would anyone do this?' You see, but then it just becomes addictive, it becomes strong. So we start to enjoy the taste of people agreeing with us, loving us unconditionally, willing to do anything for us. You see, that becomes very compelling. It is the ego's biggest joy to be worshipped. Yeah, Father, it's horrible. I've gone there so many times. Just—we just have to pray to God's grace to make us see. Like at the end of the prayer of the beggar servant, it came, I feel like, 'Just make me see. Don't make me blind again. Don't make me blind.' Because that pride, the blindness of pride, will waste our entire life. So if you're starting to spot it, nobody should ever feel like they're over it. At least I'm not in a position to say that I'm over it. This whole game of turning people away from Maya to God—Maya is not going to just sit and allow that to unfold. And yet we cannot allow the fear of our pride from stopping us from doing God's work.

That's my main thing right now. I feel I'm so scared of being a Ravana and a devil in people's life, hurting people who love me and taking their love for myself and relishing that in that disgusting way that I've over and over seen inside me. I just don't want to go there. It's so uncomfortable.

If all of you start while this one is still alive, then this one can keep guiding a bit if you're falling on the wrong track. Because if you start after this one is gone, then who will stop you? Sorry if I'm making it sound very bad.

No, it's true, Father. But it's true.

Whatever years are left in this life, if you all start and then I can keep a little bit of an eye on you and see if, you know, you're going in the prideful way.

I had shared this time that I come to share because I know I have you with me and I feel everybody is safe. I told them because we have you. You know, if we did not have you, then I wouldn't feel that people are safe with me where I'm at.

That's very humble. That's beautiful. Because where I'm at is such a no-man's-land. I don't know where I am. And may that self-image never become glorious. That's the only thing. May that become more and more humble. Better we started the conversation today that it's to see that God is so magnificent and whatever this little instrument is doing is so tiny compared to that. Not even in the same field of comparison as possible to fit. It just keeps us humble.

And when I went to Bhai's ashram there and I just sat right there, Father, I sent you the video from there. And Jyotika and I think Ishan, both of them asked me for photographs of Bhai. I'm just seeing it with the others. And last time also Radha had asked me, had gone to Gita Press and I could not find—I thought I'll bring photos of his feet and of him and Ramdas Ji. Then we found out Ramdas Ji didn't even allow his...

No, in his will he had written...

Ashes, yeah.

That everything should be thrown into—his ashes were scattered. He didn't want any samadhi. He didn't want anything.

Jotika and I think Ishan both of them asked me for photographs of Bhai. I'm just seeing it with the others and last time also Radha had asked me. I had gone to Gita Press and I could not find—I thought I'll bring photos of his feet and of him and Ramdas Ji. Then we found out Ramdas Ji didn't even allow his—no, in his will he had written that everything should be thrown into—his ashes were scattered. He didn't want any samadhi. He didn't want anything. They said that all over he made—he forced us to scatter his ashes, throw it in Ganga right here. He said he didn't want anything. And father, that touched me so much because I had just thought and I could see me versus them. And I was feeling so foolish because all of you kids, at least some of you kids, have my photo in your house and all. I said you have this foolish man in your house and Bhai did not allow photos.

But many temples over there keep Bhai. It's very sweet but—

Cannot be used in the same sentence as my photos. Please remove them. Oh, sincerely, sincerely please.

I don't have your photo but it is reminding us. So it's helpful not to ask us to remove your photo.

I don't know what to say. If you all just knew how stupid I actually am, you would never think of keeping my photo.

We make a deal where you keep asking us to remove it—

We—I keep your photo and you keep mine. Is that the part?

You keep asking us to remove it and we keep not removing.

Yes, I see what you mean. What did you say?

That the deal is I have to keep asking for all of you to remove it and you have to not remove it. I mean the second part is up to you. But the minute I think that oh yes it should be there. Is my photo in your house? If you can't come like that then please shoot me some good. That's what you meant.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that you're saying this, but also I feel I think it's okay if I don't do everything like compelling. You know these traps are very compelling like my photo, like my—the whole thing is who am I and yet my photo is so important.

So, and you just mentioned about or encouraged about us to share, right? And sitting here I realized that many of times you say that even so pride creeps in even for you. And then you say that even for great sages there's that tanmatra which is there. Now for me and for—I mean there's a negative qualification. Forget about being qualified. There's a negative qualification because through the day, through the week, I'm full of all of that. And then if I go and share, though I can share based on whatever you've—like we've experienced being with you and other great sages. Yes, you and other—me and sages. I think a sage—I think all the sages including you—I think again this like I'm not even qualified to talk about you because what we see, what we hear, I think it is not even a tip of the iceberg. There's so—so, so I would say for me it's not about the fear. It's about that you know if you can say pride creeps into you then there's no qualification. I mean at least today there's no qualification and how long is the journey is every time I come here I restart the journey.

Please, already started sharing. That's how you follow my guidance. No but actually sorry if I pause you there. This is how I want you to share. I don't want you to share, "Okay, mahan teacher, what is the way to enlightenment?" I'll repeat for—I don't want you to share from a place of oh I'm such a great teacher, I'm going to share from a place of enlightenment. All of that like what all you just said, you said with honesty, with integrity. Now if you don't lose that integrity as you share, it is still valuable for someone, you see? That's what I mean. Like I don't—it's not the asking, so we are changing the paradigm a bit because the paradigm got convoluted somewhere in the last 100 years or so. Somewhere something got convoluted where it became that sharing of God happens, you are put on a great pedestal and then you are allowed to say and share and then you will be treated as God and all of these things. That's all rubbish. Like what happened traditionally is people used to just storm the streets, talk about God, play their instrument, sing about God, you see? And all of that and then in that process organically then people started gravitating towards them, you see? Now this new age sandbox of who's entitled to share and who's not entitled to share—all that is a mistake and we are going in the wrong direction in all of that because who's to judge who can share and not share? You see, has God ever delegated the responsibility and said, "No, you will take the responsibility of saying this one can share, this one cannot share"? Me? It's not possible. Just not possible. So what I mean is just if you gather for God together and then because you're gathering for God together, always speak with integrity. So if you feel like this is true for you, just say that this is true for me. I have—everything that I have is because of what I've heard from the sages and I'm a long way to go. And with integrity, this is what I feel about myself, that I have such a long way to go. When I read the sages, I feel like my life is nowhere in comparison to them. So but can this sharing with integrity be helpful? Can be helpful. The danger is only when this goes and it becomes like—you see? Like that is the danger. And if you continue to speak from the truth, I feel like the whole process has become so convoluted now. It should just be all those who love God just sharing about God from their—as an expression of their love for God. You see, why should they—truth as per mind, that's not the truth.

Whatever you feel like is true about you in service to God if you share then God will take care. God will take care. When will we come to a point where we are not sharing from the mind at all?

I have not come to that point. What am I doing 14 years anyway? Don't pressurize yourself or become—I'm not forcing. I'm just saying that we are in a way because of fear of judgment or fear of impostor syndrome or something like that, we are not speaking about God as much as we could. I'm not saying now next weekend all of you have satsang and I don't know which one where to go because all of you have announced. But I'm just saying that I don't feel like among—it's only among the SA that we share about God openly. I feel like Radha was saying the other day that I also want to do when you say let's just walk the streets and talk to people about God in a very simple way. So I told her when are we going we should do—not evangelizing, not inviting people to satsang with Ananta, not doing any of that. It is God's call. Is it fear of pride that stops us? Fear of pride? Waiting for enlightenment certificate? What could be the other reason?

Laziness. Huh? Laziness. Uh, rejected. We'll be rejected. Nobody will really listen and we'll be laughed at or what will family think? Maybe the experience also. Family thing. Maybe the experience that you've experienced God. Have I? Because if I've never been to the US and I've read about US or heard about US, should I be talking about the US today?

No, we should not. But you must talk about where you visited. Huh? Must not talk about the US. That's a very good point. But you must talk about where you visited. And I don't mean where you visited in this place. Where you—what your journey is like? Where are you in your journey? How did you start? Where are you now? What are your difficulties? What have you seen? What are the insights you have? Because there are so many things I haven't seen. You read the books of the sages and you wonder what is going on with them. Then I should say, "Okay, I'm not going to share anymore." I don't share that. I don't make a claim and say what they have seen is my experience. You see? So I don't share anything about that if it's not my experience. But your experience you can share. And in the modern city like Bangalore we need a lot of that because everybody's sharing—okay, let me take a very crude example, don't mind, okay? If you start a company you talk to 100 people and sell to them about the company, you see? Now is your company the best company in the universe? No, it isn't. You see? Then why do you talk about your company? The same way our insights may not be the highest and we don't have to make the claim that they're the highest, but they could still be valuable. And then what will happen is then it becomes an organic movement. It becomes an organic thing. And if everybody is doing it, then there's no fear of anybody feeling special because everybody's doing it. Then it becomes really God-centric. Of course, drama will happen. "Oh, that one is not a true teacher. I am better." All this kind of nonsense will happen. But we'll deal with it while I'm alive.

Speaking about my profession or my company, it's something I feel sure in it and I know it. And God, I feel I don't know him 100% or it's not so—

I hear you. I hear. But there must be some insight, something you're sure about on the journey. Some ignorance which got taken away that we can definitely speak about because so many of our brothers and sisters get trapped in those things and if by our telling them they can be helped by it and they deal with that in a much easier way, then why not do it? Laziness. No friends to share with? Maybe you can make some friends this way. Just invite all the neighbors. You made some friends that way. Some of you made some friends with neighbors and that—again I'm not forcing and I won't really—since we are talking today it came out like this that I feel like like so many things in spirituality this part has also become strange. Like who can share, who cannot share, who's allowed to share, who's enlightened. I remember seeing the Tukaram movie, this same thing, and he was just doing his own thing and people loved him. So the priest in the temple got very jealous and then he called some—what is your authority to share? Yeah. They called the council. Yeah. Then he pundits and then they fell at his feet eventually because he realized that, you know, I am the fool and this man is actually more truly awakened. I mean he truly loved God. And it was so humbling. I mean it was so nice to see that that man fell at his feet and said, "I'm sorry, forgive me," because he was also a true seeker from some—and then I saw in this Kabir movie also that he just roamed the streets and was saying whatever he wanted to say. I mean nobody was, you know, like they didn't have some institution or he didn't have some certificate from his guru. There was no—he didn't have a guru. And in Tukaram they all—you know they would just say oh from their heart. It was very beautiful for me to see them. Like people share about Krishna, they share about Jesus, they just call a meeting in their house or in the churches they organize meetings or in ISKCON maybe they organize meetings, start a YouTube channel and start sharing. They don't take Krishna's permission and say, "I'm certified by Krishna to share." A touchy topic. I don't know if I know what I'm talking about.

So when caught in pride, pride could feel so pleasant. Yes. But also when not caught in it and it arises and peaks its head and you're outside of it, it could be so disgusting. And I suppose what is it—because you've dealt with it and we've all dealt with it—but from your lens what is it that gives us the best protection, the best chance of always making it disgusting?

Thank you. Very good question. I feel that if I am prideful in this life, I will not find place at God's feet. I just feel like that is my safety—that I may impress all of you. I may impress the world. I may impress myself. Live on some pedestal in my own head. But if I'm prideful, God will say, "Okay, try again." He will not merge me with himself. He will not whichever whatever concept of oneness.

What is it that gives us the best protection, the best chance of always making it?

Thank you. Very good question. I feel that if I am prideful in this life, I will not find place at God's feet. I just feel like that is my safety. I may impress all of you. I may impress the world. I may impress myself. Live on some pedestal in my own head. But if I'm prideful, God will say, 'Okay, try again.' He will not merge me with himself. He will not—whichever, whatever concept of oneness. That's what keeps me careful, vigilant towards pride. That audience of one versus audience of many. You see, I may be able to convince everyone in the world outside. I cannot fool Him watching in my heart. And now I'm starting to see that I don't like how this one plays out when he's in pride. And of course, there may be many things which I still don't spot, but at least now looking back, I spot so many things.

Somebody said to me, you know, thank you. Somebody said, 'Father, you had this quote: I am the marker you drew on the trees when you were lost to find your way.' Can we delete that from everywhere? Every day when you want to see it and show you everything, this body is suffering. Well, and my whole idea of me is a very healthy person somewhere and this is just—I'm also questioning how could I even, I mean, how dare I even? And then he told me that, I mean, we reached a point of surgery in the neck and now completely humbled me. Five minutes, I realized.

Ah, that has also helped. Because this body was unwell, exactly. Pain makes you very humble.

Because this body went through so much pain.

That also helps to keep you humble.

Only in two seconds. Because you can think you're some very special thing, blah blah, all nonsense. I mean, and I was like, hey, all the things that even feeling guilty that I'm asking God to me, even that, you know? But if I really want to feel, I can ask God. Why am I even making a drama about that? It's just full of this checker guy. It's just not being innocent. Okay, I don't really feel and you just quickly, you know, you just fall. I mean, maybe it's just good to just imagine that you can make yourself better. You just can't. You really can't. We have no knowledge of how to make—

God's grace that we have things like this. Yeah.

It's God's grace that I had that illness, which people—we can't even tell really what it was. Because I tell people, 'Oh, it was this finally and this was what it helped,' and doctors looked at me and said, 'Look, that's not possible in that.'

It is God's grace.

My attacks, how it just came down for you for this, so many tests and that B1 was left out. I mean, you just think about it and we suffer. Yeah, but I'm saying I spoke to some doctors about it and people who know, they said, 'No, with just B1 thing, it can't be like this.'

Mystery and magic. Maya, my tricks.

What's scary about pride is, because I always say that the security is in presence. When one is in presence, you can't be fooled by pride. But then you look at great beings. You talk about pride in your own life. You know presence so well, and to still know presence and to be able to fall for the pride and be away from God and still be okay with being away from God. That's what makes it very scary.

Yes. Absolutely. Because when we are in pride, in that moment we are not in presence. But in our pride, we become blind to that. We feel that 'I now am good enough.' That's in a way—that's shortening the time span of the answer I gave you. God will not give me space at His feet is actually what you're saying is actually better because it's more moment to moment, you see. But when I'm caught in my own narrative, then check, yeah, then I don't notice I've left God. That's the scariest thing, you see. So this idea of anybody being permanently in their being, you see, is a trap. It's just not true. Great.

Yeah. And I see it for myself like simple things. When I say that I answer from memory sometimes instead of waiting for God to answer. That is prayer. God presence is here. Then the only job of this instrument is to make itself available to God's presence to speak through this mouth. You see, but I take an answer and because I've heard it 200 times in 14 years, I feel like I know the answer to this. So, let me just—you see, so we start to notice our lack of servitude and our pride in these things. What is my job? Why do you come here? For God. You come here to meet God's presence. Sometimes you travel from distant countries and come to meet God's presence. You don't come to meet one fifty-year-old man sitting in Bangalore. See, when that is forgotten, then we get into prayer. It's a very important lesson for me, for all of us. The only thing good about me is that God is here. There is nothing independently good about me. And that goodness is why all of you come. That light is why all of you come. That is what your heart is yearning for.

Now, if I use that pedestal and turn that longing for God towards looking up at a person, then I can't imagine a greater wrong that I would have done. You see, so may God always bless us. God keep me humble and keep reminding me of my foolishness and my only job being that: how can I love all of you, serve all of you by sharing God's love and light? Because otherwise Maya can trick us in a very strong way. So let's all remain God-crazy basically. So what I'm saying, let's remain God-obsessed, God-crazy. We'll be fine if that is the case. All right. Sorry. Yes. I feel like I've just gone on talking some nonsense. We'll catch up. We'll catch up next time. Good girl.