That Which Is Aware of Perception – How Do We Discover That? - 1st February 2021

So what we're going to do is, we're going to do the... okay, settle, it's fine. Okay, what we're going to do now is a simple exercise. A simple exercise where we are going to come to this discovery. And some of you have been here with me last few days know what is coming. So this is the exercise with the four bowls. Okay, so everything that you know... okay, we're going to give this two minutes. Can we use all this? I'm only talking about like Brahman here. Are we done? It can wait, it's fine. Okay.

So there are the four bowls. Now, in the first bowl, everything that you know because you have perceived something, you put it in the first bowl. Yes? What you put in the first bowl? Everything that you know because you have perceived something. Okay. So this hand is up, you see. This one has a beard, you see. There is a photo of Guruji behind all of this. You know because you perceive it. Yes? Now, in the second bowl, everything that you know because you have a concept of it, you see. You have a concept of it but you don't perceive it. So you may know that the earth is a sphere, but in your perception you see it as flat, you see. You may know that it is the earth that goes around the sun, but in your perception it is the sun that goes around the earth. So all this conceptual knowledge goes in bowl number two. Yes?

In the third bowl, everything that you want, all your desires, even from this, especially from the spiritual discovery: 'I want it to stay,' 'I want to feel bliss,' 'I want to only have a state of openness,' 'I want to only be spacious.' All of that desire, spiritual desire especially, goes into the third bowl. Yes? So first is knowledge through perception, second is knowledge through these concepts, and third is all that you desire, all that you want. Okay. Now I am only asking you in satsang: what goes into the fourth bowl?

So, perceptions: first bowl. Concepts: second bowl. Desire, especially spiritual desire: third bowl. What will you put in the fourth bowl? So, some are saying there's a knowledge about what is being spoken, you see, but even that is perceived, so that goes into first bowl. So one is saying that I'm just seeing whatever I can grab from the chat. One is saying, 'Whatever is remaining.' So that was a concept, that was an inference. We used our intellect to do a process of negation, so that concept goes in the second bowl. And one is saying, 'What I don't want,' you see. So all desires and aversions, actually there's no difference between desires and aversions, it's the flip side of the same coin; all of that goes into the third bowl.

In which bowl do you go? Are you a perception? Perception bowl, can't go in perception bowl. Are you a concept? Can't be just a concept, you see. Are you just a desire? Can't just be a desire. So you did not go in any of these three. So then you are inferring that you can be in the fourth, you see. But that inference also goes in the bowl of concepts. What is your insight? You see, now if I ask you, 'Are you aware now?' what is the recognition on the basis of which you are able to confirm the answer? Is it a perception? How many feel it's a perception? Raise your hands. Are you aware now? You perceive yourself? If you perceive yourself, raise your hand. Even if you perceive like a dark, empty space and you're calling that awareness, you see. So it's not a perception. Very good, you see.

Is it just a concept because we heard it in the scriptures and from the mouths of the sages, 'I am awareness,' you see, that's why I have to say yes? Is it just a notion? No, you see. How many say yes, it is just a notion for you, just an idea? Are you aware now? The answer is coming just from an idea? No. And obviously this awareness is not a desire. So this confirmation, 'I am aware,' is made on which basis? That is the fourth bowl. So Atma Gyan, self-recognition, self-discovery is as simple as keeping those three bowls aside, not being concerned with the content of those three, and what remains in your insight, not in your concept, is the Self, you see.

Now some of you are saying that, 'I am inferring that I am aware because I am aware of the perception,' you see. So, 'I'm aware of perception only, that's why I can confirm that I'm aware.' But this is not true, you see. There is perception and that is perceived, but that you are aware of them, what is the basis for that? Yes, it is just a knowingness, it's just knowing an awareness. But remember that as you are making this discovery, it is not that now awareness is becoming aware of itself, you see. Awareness is the changeless one, so it does not have states of being more aware or less aware of itself, you see. It is only that you are now accessing a deeper space of your being called your intuition, called your Satguru presence, you see, from where your truth, your reality, your source, the source of your being is apparent, you see.

And the best part is, as you come to this open intuitive intelligence, then not only are you clear about your reality, but everything that you need to know about the manifest is also available here. It is the intelligence itself which is the light of this universe, you see. So in this Satguru presence, you cannot have a problem or a doubt or a confusion, you see, because you left those behind in the three bowls. So problems are in your mind, in your thoughts, in your perceptions, and in your desires. But what you are is beyond all of them. Simple, no? Yes? Learned? Yes. Okay, now let's do some checking. How many are able to follow now? Most of you are saying yes. And if you are not saying yes to make me feel better, then it is as simple as that. The truth is as simple as that. Tell me how you will struggle.

Everything that starts with 'but' can go into the third bowl of desire. Feeling? Some of you are talking about some feeling. Feeling for the moment is just a perception, so we can leave it in the first bowl, you see. All of it will be there for you, don't worry. You're keeping it safe in the first bowl, you see. Enough attention, enough focus has gone into the content of the first three bowls, so we come to satsang to discover what's in the fourth bowl. Everything that can have a yes or no, right or wrong, some conclusion either way, goes into the second bowl of concepts, of intellect. Okay. So now let me look at a hand. The first hand I see is Jason. Jason can come in here.

Namaste.

Namaste.

Discovered you just recently, your satsang, and I love you so much.

Oh, I love you too. Thank you, thank you.

I just knew Guruji Moojibaba and I'll find you also, and I just feel I can relax in your presence. Yes, but I actually, actually now I feel a little bit, a little bit tense, at least not natural. When you come up on Zoom, I feel like everybody's watching. Take your time. That's maybe one thing I want to talk about. Yes.

Okay, so we'll get to that one thing, no? We'll get to that one thing. But how are you doing on the exercise right now? There's a little bit of disturbance in the mind, like nervousness and so on? Yes. Yeah, yeah, we can try and do this together, yeah, just so that it's a bit alive now. We can see it a bit live. So every piece of knowledge that you have because you perceive something goes into the first bowl. So like you're perceiving some sensations, you see, like nervousness or something like this, that goes into the first bowl. So it can lie there, it's fine. There's no trouble with any of that, you see. It can be there.

Why does it go into the first bowl? Because it is perceived. With me? Yes. Okay. Now, any conceptual knowledge, intellectual knowledge—like there's a perception, but to call it 'nervousness' is intellectual knowledge, no? To make meaning out of it, to attach it to a story, because the mind may also say, 'Oh, why does this always happen? Why can't I just be chill?' you know, this kind of thing. That is all conceptual knowledge, so goes into the second bowl. Yes? And it can play out. We have no trouble with it, just we are not taking it to be so important for the moment. And anything that we can desire—and I'm aware that it belongs in the first two, but I'm making a special bowl for them—which is that, 'I wish it would stop,' 'I wish it to not be there,' whatever, whatever we may want, a particular state or not want a particular state, goes into the third bowl, you see. So these are the three. Now, where are you?

None of these.

None of these. And you're not just speaking from a concept? Because if it was just a concept, then it would go in bowl number two, no?

I don't feel it's just a concept.

Very good, very good. Is it a perception then? Do you see yourself out of...

I'm making a special bowl for them, which is that 'I wish it would stop' or 'I wish you to not be there.' Whatever, whatever we may want—a particular state or not want a particular state—goes into the third bowl, you see. So these are the three. Now, where are you? None of these. None of these. And you're not just speaking from a concept, because if it was just a concept, then it would go in bowl number two, no?

I don't feel it's just a concept.

Very good, very good. Is it a perception then? Do you see yourself out of the bowls?

No, I don't see myself.

Don't see, you see? Then what is this mysterious knowledge that confirms to us that we are not in any of these bowls? It is not a perception, it is not a notion, it is not a desire. Then what is it?

Consciousness, in a way?

Yes, yes. Your intuitive insight. It's just your intuitive insight. And all of satsang is so that we can let go of our conceptual idea about ourselves and come to this intuitive insight. And when we say 'come to it,' it is just letting go of the false, letting go of that which is in time, letting go of that which is in space, you see. And this is just apparent to you.

But it is somewhat strange because it's not just conceptual for me, but still sometimes it feels it's not clear enough. Or still I feel very much in this body. I spoke with Guruji about this; he said it's just an idea, but still it feels so real to be identified with the body. Also, I can say I'm not the body, but yeah, just for the moment.

Yes, so let's explore this, no? So when we say 'I am not so clear about this,' you see, now clarity can be... we can have a very clear perception. You see, my attention is fully on the hand, so the hand is very clear, you see. It can be unclear if I'm trying to look at the hand and also I'm trying to calculate 517 times 45, you see? So then I'm like... and I'm trying to remember what I had for lunch yesterday. So things became unclear, but they became unclear at the level of perception because attention is limited and attention cannot be fully with multiple perceptions. So lack of clarity can be at the level of the first bowl, which is the level of perception, isn't it?

Yes.

Okay, very good. Then the lack of clarity in the second bowl can be: 'What is the capital of Estonia?' I don't know, I'm not so clear about that, you see. 'Was Serbia part of Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia?' I don't know. It can be lack of clarity, 'I'm not so clear.' So that is like a lack of intellectual or conceptual clarity. And he's going to ask you to unmute again because I muted everyone else. So that is a lack of conceptual clarity, you see. Now, the clarity that you are saying is not there, which type is that? Like if you were completely clear about yourself, then what type of clarity would that be?

I would call it an experiential clarity. I don't know.

What does experience mean? Does it mean perception?

No, this guy is not...

It's okay, we have time. Don't worry at all. So it's not an attack; we're just exploring together, you see. Now, many times when we say that we are searching for an experience of the Self, we have also been told that the Self can never be an experience, you see. Therefore, the Self can never be a perceptual experience. It is only ever going to be an intuitive insight, you see. Now, the good news is that your intuitive insight is never more or less clear. Only your mind can have these kind of fluctuations; your intuition does not, you see. So where you know with full certainty that you are aware, now, you are always clear about that, you see. When we give this information to the mind and say 'What does this mean? Does this mean I am free?' then we mix our desires into it, you see—the third bowl. Then it starts to become a bit unclear. When we try to make an experience or to fit a state out of it—'Oh, there was so much spaciousness, I couldn't find myself in this space'—then we made a perception out of it or an experience out of it. So then it can feel like that was so clear and now it became blurry. But that perceptual experience was never it, you see. Whatever the perception may be, we can leave it aside. Whatever our concept may be, we can leave it aside. Now, it is not possible for you to be unclear about it, actually.

Yes.

And so what is happening is that many of us, because that is our conditioning, we have been taught this way in life. We try to take this intuitive insight and we try to fit it into our mind as a concept and we want conviction about it, so we try to make it clear in the second bowl, you see. We want to be convinced about it, and that doesn't happen. Or we want to make an experience or a perception of this intuitive insight, which can never be a perception, but we try to make a state out of it. We try to hold on to it, we try to keep it in some way as some experience, and therefore it gets unclear. But if you don't try to do any of that, how will you become unclear? You see? Are you with me so far, that you notice that lack of clarity is only at the level of perception or concept?

Yeah, I don't know. It's a lot. It's a lot to take in.

And there's no real rush in this way, you see. There's no real rush. You don't have to confirm something now or seize your chance or nothing like that. Just relax. We're just having a conversation. So, are you aware now?

Yes.

That is easy. That is easy. Is it clear?

Yes.

Yes, that is all the clarity you will ever have and you ever need. What else would clarity mean?

Maybe if you would say 'Are you awareness?' then it's not so clear.

I see, I see. Good. Awareness... then it's not... it seems mixed, or it cannot be mixed, but it's mixed.

Okay, okay, so let's look at this. So you say 'Are you aware now?' You see? Then I can also say, when you say 'Yes,' I can also ask you: at what distance are you from this awareness? What is your relationship with this awareness? I am that which is aware, you see. And is that something which has an owner relationship, like it is the owner of awareness? Is it like that? An entity which is the owner of awareness—is that your insight?

No, no, it is not that.

So there is no entity there. There is awareness, and yet we say 'I am aware.' Therefore—and this is an inference, but you can use this inference to check this—'I' and this awareness are the same. Is there somewhere where you are but awareness is not? No. Are there awarenesses but you are not? No, you see. So it is apparent there intuitively that you are this awareness, you see. There it is apparent. Now, if you try to stuff it into your mind, you see, then it will get mixed with an idea about yourself being Jason or any identity which is now trying to become the owner of this discovery of awareness. That you cannot do, you see. So don't try to force anything at all. Don't try to force it to become an experience or to force a conceptual understanding of it. And what was the third bowl? The third bowl was whatever you could want out of this discovery, you put it there. And this is the one that trips most of us up because the mind will come and say, 'But then so what? What did I get? Am I free now? Where is my halo?' This is all in the realm of spiritual desire, spiritual ego. So we put it all in the third bowl, you see. And if you keep waiting for like conviction and therefore confirmation, then the mind will keep playing with doubt. But we are not waiting for any of that, you see, because I am aware of your reality because it is the same as my reality. And that same intuitive intelligence in which it is so clear 'I am aware now,' you see, that is the same intuitive intelligence. Just in this play of consciousness, it seems like it is here or there, but when it is being spoken from here, it is being spoken on behalf of all, of the one being. Now, can you have a concern about this, or can you only have a concern about what's on the other side of attention, which means the content part?

What do you mean by concern?

Concern means... but, but what about, you know, some doubt, some concern like that? The mind can bring some doubt.

Yeah, yes.

But the doubt will have something tied with content, no? With the content of perception?

Yes.

Does it really apply to you in terms of what you are discovering yourself to be right now? Which doubt applies to you? So you contemplate this some more and we'll come back to you in a moment. I feel like this is a good time to check with everyone because I hope you guys were following now as we went along, because I felt that they were useful instructions for all of us. So anyone has a doubt at this point about what you are discovering? You can come up and then we'll come back to Jason because I remember he had something he wanted to talk about. Anyone who has a doubt about this can raise your hand physically so I can see you, or the ones that have their hands raised... is it about this? So for a moment, could you put them down? Could you unraise them or whatever? It's gone. Who has a doubt about this, what we are just talking about, what we are discovering here? So we'll make a deal like this: for the first half of satsang, we will talk about what I am interested in, and for the second half of satsang, we'll talk about what you are interested in. Yes? So this is what I'm interested in: to bring you to this simple insight which seems so elusive that people spend many million lifetimes trying to search for it, you see. But this is our opportunity to look at this together. And then if there's something about the content of perception and things, we'll come to that maybe a little later. So, see that you have a question, you have a doubt about this? No idea? Okay, I will help you with this. Okay, this is clear to everybody? Nobody has a doubt about this? This is amazing. Then I'm gonna... ah, okay, Keisha wants to come. Hello, hello India. So happy to see you today.

Okay, maybe even to speak a little more. Okay, so there isn't doubt, but it's the same story of the uncomfortable sensations that arise within it that are just kind of taking the attention. Not doubt, but just the focus on those, which I guess could be seen as the same as doubt. It's all just thought or a distraction.

Yeah, so when we say sensation, we are able to confirm the presence of a sensation because of perception, isn't it?

Yes, yes.

So once we keep the perception aside for a moment, which is all of this sensation, and I ask you: are you aware now? Does your confirmation have anything to do with the content of the sensations?

No.

No. Now, does that awareness which you are discovering yourself to be have any concern about the sensations?

No, it wouldn't affect it.

So the one who does have some concern about sensations, about their being there or not—can you find that one right now? No. But you do find yourself as this awareness, isn't it?

Yes.

Yes. So this awareness, is it even concerned about a future appearance of this one that you can't find now?

No.

In reality, what you are saying is that you cannot be troubled. No, not really. Yes. And to be troubled, you have to visit the first two bowls, isn't it?

Yes, it's comfort and habit.

Yes, but it is like the story of the thousand-handed monster in the Yoga Vashistha. You heard this story from me before? Where there's this thousand-handed monster and it's a habit that it has to hit itself with the weapons it's carrying in his hand. So habit, I will definitely say yes, but comfort, I don't know so much. It can seem like it is same-same. It's like conditioned, no? It's like a conditioned impulse. Yes. So this is a good point actually, now that you brought it up. Initially, to be empty of this can feel a bit uncomfortable, can feel a bit wobbly, you see. It may feel like it's unfamiliar, you see, because we are used to surrounding ourselves with our notions about ourselves and with our desires of some experience or lack of some experience. But when we come to this openness and emptiness, it can seem a bit unfamiliar and therefore I can accept your idea about uncomfortable, you see. And that is why I'm here to hold your hand through this apparent discomfort.

A bit uncomfortable, can feel a bit wobbly, you see. It may feel like it's unfamiliar, you see, because we are used to surrounding ourselves with our notions about ourselves and with our desires of some experience or lack of some experience. But when we come to this—I'm sorry—so when we come to this openness and emptiness, it can seem a bit unfamiliar and therefore I can accept your idea about uncomfortable, you see. And that is why I'm here to hold your hand through this apparent discomfort. But it's not a real discomfort; it's just the withdrawal symptoms, you know? The withdrawal symptoms from the mind, withdrawal symptoms from desire, from attachment. Yes, thank you. So, welcome.

I like what you have to talk about more than what I have to talk about.

Well, that's nice. It's always much better. So thank you, thank you so much. Okay, anyone else has a doubt? How many feel like this is not enough? There must be something more to this because I couldn't have spent the last so many years searching for the truth to just come to these four walls and just see how simple it is. That can be a doubt, no? That can be a super powerful doubt saying it can't just be that. What does this mean? You feel that? You feel that? Yes, it's natural for the mind to invite you to have this doubt and say, 'That's it?' But that I found in my first Satsang, or some of you may say that I already knew before I came to Satsang, you see. And I'm sorry to disappoint you, but that's it.

But I also want to caution you that don't buy your mind's version of how irrelevant that discovery is or something like that. It's not like that. What you're discovering is beyond birth, beyond death, beyond time, beyond space, beyond all your lifetimes, beyond everything that you have ever experienced, you see. But don't try to get your mind to confirm this. Just recognize for yourself in your heart, in your intuition. Okay, we have some hands now. Okay, good, good, good. Let's go. I see Nupur first. Let's see what Nupur is saying.

Hello, Father. Hello, India. Can you hear me well?

I can hear you well, yes.

Yes, thank you so much, Father, for this opportunity. I mean, so much, Father. And there has been this recognition very recently, especially since meeting Guruji recently, that awareness is all that is. I am is the awareness. And there has been this recognition, and I wanted to correct and just confirm this with you, Father, that the person that I have been walking as is more like a contraction of a habit. And I have the choice whether I want to contract in that now or whether I want to just stay as the awareness. And the person is a thought, because I could be cooking, I could be working on my emails, and I could be using the body and still be doing everything as I am. But it's only the thought that comes in that I am this person who everybody calls as Nupur. So, Father, is this how it's supposed to be like? Because I'm just a little on the fence with this, whether I'm going the right direction or is that something I should check in?

Yeah, it's very good. It's very good what you say. It's a start of a good conversation now. Yes, so you discover that you are aware of your presence, I am, you see. And it's like a pristine vibration. It's like the primordial vibration of your very existence, you see. Now, you are aware even of that, but we can start with I am. That's good enough. Now, when we say that I have the choice to either remain in this I am-ness or in the awareness which is aware even of I am-ness, or I have the choice to take myself to be that which my thoughts are inviting me to believe, you see. Now, this 'I' is consciousness, you see. This 'I' is consciousness, and that which plays out is always the will of consciousness, isn't it? You see, so it cannot be that the product of this exercise—let's call it exercise for a moment—which is the personal identity, that which is created only after the exercise is done, that could not have had the choice to do it or not, isn't it? That itself is a mirage which is created when the whole play of that choice is done, isn't it?

Yeah.

So it is consciousness itself. You as consciousness can make that choice to not go along with the invitations of the mind. And that's why we call Satsang consciousness speaking with consciousness. So the reminder is for consciousness by consciousness itself. Yes, so you as consciousness have complete full power over everything. And sometimes the track record shows that I have had the habit of getting into shape, yes.

And so now that's the only blessing, Father, that you know, I can just be the I am, the awareness, and just be. Because sometimes you feel the words cannot say what you're trying to convey because you are the awareness, but still language is limited in that expression, Father. But I know you're getting me. And it's just sometimes there's fear that comes up that don't take shape, don't get hypnotized by your personality or person, you're not that.

So I'm happy that you're surrendering that, because one of the tricks of the mind itself is to tell you, 'Don't go with the mind.' The trickster pretends to be the friend and says, 'Now that you know the truth, you better not fall for the mind, you know.' And by the way, who's speaking? So you can play that way. And yet, in spite of saying that, I will take your request as a prayer and my full, full blessings are for that. My full blessings are for that. But this thermometer on the basis of which you can check how personal you're being or how open you're being, that also you have to give to me when you end your prayer today.

It's all yours, Father. All at your feet, Father. All at your feet. Thank you so much. Love you, Father.

Love you too. Thank you so much. Okay, thank you. Then I see Kevalya.

Okay, I can come. And this is the first time I meet you, but I've heard about you and I attended many retreats with Mooji. There is a lot of presence and the inner silence is felt, but many physical tensions bring back the attention on the body. And I wonder, there is still an 'I' coming back when the tension is strong. It's like, how can we be above these physical tensions that are linked to karma? There is a strong belief that as long as the karma is not swept out, tensions will be there and will bring back into shape. How to get rid of that?

Yes, thank you. Thank you for this question and a big thank you for bringing around. Yes, it fills my heart with so much joy to have the Darshan through you of this divine, divine presence. Thank you, thank you for that. So, okay, let's see if I can focus on the question a bit and just so much in my heart. What I want to tell you is that let's talk about karma first. Let's talk about karma. So karma is the pool of all the conditioning that we have, you see. All the conditioning that we have. And if we dig into the patterns and origins, then those patterns and origins could be many lifetimes old. We can't really, and we don't have to really, investigate and get too much into what is the origin of this particular thing.

The good news is that it is basically like a pool of conditions, you see. So when we say conditioning, it is actually just conditions that we have, you see. So when we have conditions like 'I am like this,' 'I like this better,' 'I don't want this,' 'I hate that,' you see, 'I prefer like this,' you see, all of these are the things which make us unique. It is like consciousness is getting experience in a new unique way. Yes, yes, yes, yes, in a unique way. Okay, we'll come to that in a moment.

So all of these conditions, you see, now, right now, right this very moment, you are empty of all of these conditions, you see. I don't even have to confirm that with you because it is true, just like this, you see. To get back into conditions needs time. It needs a thought. It needs identification with the thought, you see. But what happens is that the tree of conditioning is like this: that you tug at one condition, you pull one condition, and it can seem like the whole tree is back, you see. That is why Bhagavan said that to come to Atma Gyan, you don't have to attain or get something; you just have to become empty of all your conditioning, all your mental tendencies, vasanas, you see, conditioning, you see.

Then the questioner said, 'But how can I do that? When will I become like that?' And Bhagavan said, 'You are like that now.' You are like that now. And the trick is that you are completely open, empty, and free from all your karmic conditioning in this very moment, you see. But you pull at one strand of this tree or this pool of Samsara, you see, at this tree of condition, and it can seem like the whole of Samsara is back, the whole of the tree of conditioning is back, you see. But the good news is what? That in spite of your pulling over and over again, this moment you are free.

At the same time, you mean?

Yes, yes, yes. So consciousness in itself—the beauty of consciousness is that in this worldly expression, it does not like redundancy. So uniqueness comes naturally to how consciousness is playing at the moment. Every fingerprint is unique, you see. Every fingerprint is unique, every snowflake is unique, every leaf is unique, every eye is unique, everything is unique, you see. Now, but a snowflake doesn't have to worry about its karma, you see. A fingerprint doesn't have to worry about its karma. So the uniqueness comes naturally in the expression of consciousness itself and it can play—it will play that way, you see. But you can be empty and free and yet in your expression, consciousness will play with some uniqueness, you see. Like I am completely my Father's son, I'm always at Guruji's feet, no? And yet in that expression of Ananta, there will be some uniqueness compared to the expression of Guruji, you see. That comes naturally, you see. So we don't have to preserve our uniqueness by allowing ourselves to be conditioned by something. Consciousness will play that uniqueness anyway.

This I understand. It's just that it looks like the physical, like when presence is felt very, very strong, everything relaxes and whatever tensions remain get too much attention.

Yes, we are coming to that attention question now. Okay, now let's presume for a moment that attention has two sides. On one side is all the perception, the content, you see. All the sensation, perceptions, sight, sound, taste, touch, everything. The other end of attention is you, you see, is you, the Self, which is, in this metaphor, the receiver of all of this content. Now I have a simple question, and the question is: what can appear as a perception, you see, which can actually hurt or even scratch that Self which is aware of the perception?

Nothing.

Nothing. So unless—independent of wherever attention may be—so attention may be on the more sublime, or attention can be on this very fiery sensation or sometimes this sense of contraction and all of that, you see. But it is only attacking or seeming to attack a shape or a self-image that we make again with those conditions that we have, you see. But it can never attack the real Self, you see. So then we can be a little free with our attention also. Attention can go wherever it wants. We can leave it to Being to direct attention, and we don't have to be so concerned about what attention is bringing.

So sometimes like this, like this, sometimes ah, so open, open, you see. It is the contrast which makes the juice, you know? It makes the point of this manifestation, actually, is to taste the contrast. Otherwise it will all be insipid. Why wake up then? The waking state comes and all these tastes are tasted. But if there was never any salty, then you would not know sweet, no? If everything was sweet, sweet, sweet. So attention sometimes on contraction, contraction sometimes on spaciousness, spaciousness. But you are aware now in your recognition that nothing truly is hurt by either contraction and nothing truly is helped by expansion. It is just in the play of the manifest consciousness that it can seem like it is more pleasurable.

Wake up, then the waking state comes and all these tastes are tasted. But if there was never any salty, then you would not know sweet, no? If everything was sweet, sweet, sweet. So attention sometimes on contraction, sometimes on spaciousness. But you, you are aware now in your recognition that nothing truly is hurt by either contraction and nothing truly is helped by expansion. It is just in the play of the manifest consciousness that it can seem like it is more pleasurable to be in expansion than in contraction, you see? But once we let go of picking and choosing, when we are not so concerned about what shows up, then you will see that all of this that happens in this space actually happens in the broader space of your being, which is never affected by the content of your perception or whatever attention may bring to you. I stopped hearing you. Did you mute? Okay, you already muted yourself somehow, but that's fine. You can come back again if you like. Ah, okay, now I have disabled the ability. Okay, you can come back. Right, okay, sorry.

Um, so you're saying then not to care at all about where attention goes? Yes, just to be witnessing attention?

Yes, and that witnessing happened independent of whether you decide to witness it or not, you see? That witnessing you cannot turn off or on. That witnessing is just there. So attention can be fixated or open, seemingly outside or inside, you see? But all of this doesn't matter to yourself. It doesn't even matter to your being, actually. So leave it free and enjoy whatever shows up. Not enjoy like force yourself to enjoy, but sometimes we enjoy even the contraction, no? Actually, like consciousness has consciousness, it is even enjoying that, isn't it? Only that when we take an idea that we shouldn't, that is the conditions that we were talking about—the conditioning which can make us personal. Only that has a problem with some sensation like that.

Okay, just accept the sensations even if they are unpleasant, that's what you are saying? Okay, yeah, that might be the resistance.

Yeah, accept them so fully that you don't even have the need to label them as pleasant or unpleasant, you see? Because when you're with the perception of a sensation, be so fully with it and don't have to take any attention to the mind and say, 'What is this? What is the label for this?' You see? Don't have to bother with any of that. Just be in full acceptance of whatever is showing up.

Thank you. Yeah, very good. I can feel Mooji through you. Very beautiful.

Always at his feet. Always at his feet. Thank you so much. Nice darshan, no? Thank you. Thank you for Arunachala. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Okay, so then I see Georgina. Hello.

Hello, Father. Hello, hello. Um, you asked if any doubts come here before the recognition comes so easy in your presence that this satsang notion comes that this one has to sit in your physical presence to be fully absorbed in this.

Okay, what has to be absorbed?

Yeah, um, the false. Yes, it makes no sense, yes. But it's been a, I suppose it's been a strong idea coming lately.

Yeah, yeah. Now, if it is just an idea, then it can come and go. If it is your intuition which is guiding your feet towards Bangalore, you're always welcome. This is your home, you can come.

Yes, yes, yes. It used to be more of an idea and lately it feels more like the heart asking for it, but also the knowing that it's not possible for now apparently to go, but it should open up soon.

I'm saying what I'm saying is you're very welcome. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But till then, till it becomes a physical possibility, till then you don't have to worry about it at all.

Yeah, since since we're talking about this, um, I suppose that the idea has come after listening to you, to your account of meeting Guruji and his account of meeting Papaji and so on, that there is something to the physical presence of your master that something happens. Um, is this just an idea?

It was an idea and it is not an idea. Okay? If you can meet me like this where something can be both true and not true, then we have a nice time together. Okay? You see, there are many things which cannot fit into our intellect and we cannot at one level... so just to expand on this a bit more. So at one level, there is nothing missing in this right now. You are coming to a clear recognition of yourself, you see, following the pointings of satsang. So there is nothing missing at that level. And yet at another level, if you were here in the energetic presence of satsang, in the presence of the sangha, something... easy this or that, both are good, you see? But nothing is a prerequisite for your freedom.

Yes, I suppose I, yeah, something needed to hear those words. Especially if you come with having watched the videos or having heard the stories of what happens, you know, yeah, then that kind of expectation can be an impediment. But it's fine because that expectation sometimes can get burnt to the ground very strongly and it can feel a bit painful initially, but then you'll be happy that you're free from this kind of idea, you know. There's also, because I don't know what it's like because I've never been in your physical... no, but there's also a feeling that that God has found sort of a loophole through Zoom and I can meet you here.

Yes, there's nothing missing in this moment of our meeting and yet I'll be very happy if you come. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Good. Who this boy? Adam Robinson. Go in. I like this look. I can do that. And hello to you too. Are you trying to take yourself seriously again? No? Are you on the driver's side?

Yeah, but I'm parked. So good to see you, so so good to see you. I don't know what to say or what to ask or you know, I just I keep seeing this oscillation between such wonderful presence and such contractions. And I know that, you know, I'm observing that from something that's not contracting. So I don't really want to bring in the things which are causing it or because I know that I know at some point, you know, that that's not going to be, that's not going to even register and I just really trust that.

So I suppose I just, I just want to open myself to grace as much as possible and to you, to this sangha. And so when you say it won't register, in what way do you mean? Like it won't appear assumptionally?

Yeah, it won't have meaning. It won't have any meaning and and you know, I keep I keep applying meaning and I can't help it and it's just it's just a habit. It's like a, it's just a habit, you know. But I'm totally done with that and uh, but there's like this residue.

So that's your problem, I'm afraid. I'm very happy to hear that. Very good. I'm completely, completely with you and you're right here, you're right. You don't see your video anymore or hear you for that matter. Is that one of those British things? They can't see me crying. Sorry if I'm messing around too much. Maybe we lost him for me? Have you lost him for the moment? Okay, he'll come back. Okay, nobody wants to talk to me about the four bowls. Okay, let's see what Satya is talking about.

Hello, my love. Hello, Father. Can you hear me? Yes, yes. Everybody's on their way to work this morning. Well, no, just sitting, sitting in my car on the way to, to the beach. But it's so lovely, it's so lovely to be able to join you in satsang. Thanks so much for having online satsangs. And I wanted to ask you one of the things you said earlier today in Arunachala. Um, it just prompted something in the... you know, when you say you pull at the leaf of conditioning and the whole, the whole tree comes in? Okay. So, you know, that happens to me a lot. I'm aware of that and like I, I have a continual confusion about that which is like, even as you were saying it, the question was coming up in me. Yeah, but like, who pulls at the leaf of conditioning? Yeah, because I, it's like, it's great when I'm here with you, it's so, you follow your pointings, I can see I'm aware of awareness, it's you know, and it's a simple seeing and that's beautiful. And then you see, I could say, you know, the mind pulls at conditioning, the personal 'I', but then it's like, yeah, but there is no personal 'I'. So it's like awareness wants to pull at the leaf of conditioning for some mad reason. Yes, and it's like, like what's that about? And it sort of goes into this place of, you know, everything is... I don't feel this all the time but it's kind of becoming clear everything is happening in the right way whether you know, I personally enjoy it or not is irrelevant, you know, that notion. So then it's, you know, it's, it's like I have no agency in it or something like that. There's no, there appears to be a choice. I appear to be the one pulling a leaf of conditioning and putting in a lot of nonsense, but at the same time it's kind of like, you know, I don't even exist in that personal sense. So how can I pull at a leaf of conditioning? So there's obviously, so there's a lot of confusion.

Like usually, I usually say let's make it a multiple choice question now. So the question is: who can it be that pulls at the leaf of conditioning? So as I was saying with the lady earlier, that that which is the product of this process, that obviously could not have been there to have pulled it. Because if the personal identity is made only after believing a notion, you see, that shape is seemingly created only at the end of the process, then it couldn't have been there at the beginning to do that. So then who can it be? It has to be consciousness, you see, playing this game. That's why in India we call it the Leela, the play of taking itself to be that which is limited, taking itself to be that which it is not. And then consciousness itself letting go of these conditions about itself and not taking itself to be that. And as part of this game, it seems to have designed this sort of satsang game as a mini-game within the bigger game for this play to happen, you see? Where it seemed that mostly consciousness seems to come to the end of this play of taking itself to be the limited ego in the presence of the sangha, in the presence of satsang, you see? So why does it do it? Nobody can say. Is it rational? Of course not. So I liked when you said 'for some mad reason,' no? So that's why Leela fits best because is there a reason for play? No, it's just play, you see? And that is why we say consciousness speaking with consciousness. So consciousness seems to be reminding itself that it is consciousness and not a person, and can bring an end to the suffering in that aspect where it seems to be suffering by letting go of these false ideas that it seems to have agreed to believe about itself. It's absurd, I'm not denying that. It's completely absurd, and yet that is what the play seems to be like.

So then, I mean, so you as consciousness, you see, you as consciousness can let go of this stream of thoughts. You see, because let's look at it this way also, because I hear it the other way sometimes saying, 'But I can't do anything about it,' no? And then I say, okay, so let's look at this. And we have the masters on the wall here, if you remember. So Bhagwan said the only choice you have is to let go of your stream of thoughts, you see? That's the only choice. And as long as it feels like a choice, you must make that choice. Papaji said, 'Keep quiet, keep quiet for a fraction of a second, keep quiet. You can do it,' he said, no? Guruji said, 'Don't identify, don't identify, don't believe your next thought,' you see? Now, if that was just not possible, then why would the masters waste so much of their time saying this stuff? So obviously that is not that it is not possible, but it is not possible for what we think we are. But it is completely possible for that which we actually are, which is consciousness, you see? It's completely possible for you as consciousness to let go of this, you see? Now, why did it need consciousness to create this kind of reminder for itself, this alarm clock for itself?

Your next thought, you see. Now, if that was just not possible, then why would the masters waste so much of their time saying this stuff? So obviously, it is not that it is not possible, but it is not possible for what we think we are. But it is completely possible for that which we actually are, which is consciousness, you see. It's completely possible for you as consciousness to let go of this, you see. Now, why did it need consciousness to create this kind of reminder for itself, this alarm clock for itself? I couldn't say, you see. I don't know. The best explanation we can have for it is it's a Lila. It's a play that consciousness is playing.

Yeah, because that's what seems to be happening over the past few days. It's just, it's becoming, I don't know why, a little bit more obvious. Yeah, like there's no problem. I notice I wind myself up with whatever nonsense is going on in my head, but if I can just say, 'Oh, just ignore it' and, you know, because it's nonsense. Like, no matter what the story is, it's just whatever. So that's good. That's good to be. So there is, yeah, there's a, yeah, as you say yourself and all the masters, the appearance of a choice there about not believing or not following does, yeah, opens up, opens up some peace and expansion. Actually, yeah, that's, that's good. I'm sorry, I'm just being reminded as I'm saying that, the last time I tried, I was going to speak to you but somehow I cut out there. It didn't work. It was just a funny thing I noticed, like your name Ananta. Yeah, in the Irish language, if you break that down into the words, that actually means 'very, very.' I'm just really impressed. I thought it's, I just thought it was very appropriate and it's a nice, nice reminder.

It's Guru's grace, not this name. So beautiful. Thank you, thank you. Very, very easy. Thank you, thank you so much. Nice to see you. Lovely to see you. Thank you, my dear. Okay, Sita can come now. Sorry, you can come. I know I promised that I'm taking those who have questions about the doubts about the four bowl exercise, but some of them just joined after that exercise was even done, so I just took them. But you can see now.

I won't say well, I will try. Is it good now? I cannot hear you well, but okay, let's see. First of all, just thank you so much for the exercise because it truly brought me to myself back and of course, what I need all the time. And I'm just so thankful for this, especially for today. And I have no doubts about this, and I had never actually about what you have shown to us. But generally, I have personal problems and about life, and I want to bring it to you again. Actually, I don't like anymore to do this, but yeah, I feel to do. And yeah, actually I already opened this up to you little bits about family and yeah, it's, it's, it was always such a struggle for me from childhood. My mother and what was playing through her, even though she's very much angelic right now, just old stories etc. And my struggle with my sister with the same thing, just very, just finish me off actually because too much hatred and it's just too heavy. And I feel very hopeless and I'm always like boiling on these feelings and I have nothing to do with it, you know? Like nothing works actually, and it's very tiring to be.

Does nothing work? Even nothing? Nothing is not known not to work. Okay.

And yeah, just also it's such a lot of things, by the way. Like from a since a little child, I was expecting to leave my family and their house and it never happened. And of course, like expecting a beautiful life etc., something like this. And at some point few months ago, it just comes to me, you know, like this path doesn't give me something like this. And yeah, it's, it was little bit not shocked, but I don't know. It's, it was like my hidden expectation, you know, like truth will give me this and it won't, it didn't. And it was yeah.

It's, it's beautiful that after you make the discovery that yourself has no deal to give the non-self something, you see, you can still be in satsang. Sure. Because that is the clincher. Because the masters can keep saying there is nothing for you in this, there's nothing for the 'me' in this, but the mind keeps saying, 'No, no, he's just saying that. Finally, I'm going to get that absolute peace.' Yeah. Still, I still believe this. Coming to the discovery that I'm not going to get any of this stuff, he's not interested in any of that anyway, you see. And whether you stick around after that or no is the clinching point.

I have to say this, it's just something within me and I wanted to bring it to you. And of course, it's not comparable with what I have seen with you and what Guruji has given to me. It's not comparable at all. It was just an expectation which was still with me and I have to say that because yeah, it's something like this, you know.

Okay. It's also not a deal that it is never going to happen, you see. It is only that it is independent of that. Yeah. But what is being promoted is independent of that. It is also not a guarantee that you came in wanting something so it will definitely not happen, something like that. Yeah. It's only that you see that the protagonist of the story never really truly existed, and it definitely wasn't you, you see. Then the story can still play out in whichever way it has to play out, but the outcome of the story is not so relevant or important anymore.

In some way, Father, yes, I feel this because I truly, I am happy. Like whatever, whatever happened outside, I found myself always happy, really. And even though I paused, but now the truth is independent even of that. Yeah, but it gives me happiness.

That's good, that's good. But suppose that even that wasn't there, then would you still be here?

Yes, sure, of course. No doubt. But excuse me, what can I do? I can't help it. Um, yeah, some part of me like truly want to ask like this, you know, like here the Baba gives to her disciples, you know, like this kind of things. I just want to ask and have this, but it's also kind of obsession within me and just too much.

Many great saints in India and many all over the world, many great saints who feel that, 'I want to give my children what they want so that one day they may want what I want to give them,' you see. But I have to say that I'm not one of them.

Okay, it's okay because I also feel like that in the sense that I've seen that the, like Guruji says, no, the value of this beast is never fulfilled. So it wants something, then it wants something else, and you want something else, and I want something else. It's never really done. So that I usually find to be a losing battle. I remember like I have said now that one part of me, even though I didn't say, I say like this because I feel checked. And if I thought that if what I want will be given to me, it's like I still not be fulfilled in that sense and still the outside will have a power on me, you know? Like yeah, it was showing this thing was playing through my mother and then she went and now she's playing through my sister. And when she also done, it can come from outside and it's like there is no end to this. And actually I said few months ago, it just comes up and I pray like this, you know, I truly want to go through this whatever it is because it's just so much here and it doesn't come to an end. And I pray like this, and for a few months I'm just crying, crying, crying, and it didn't finish. And I truly want to now ask for your grace and even though I feel like grace is working, I want to ask like, you know, also Guruji is talking about this kind of shark, like I found a term for this, thunderbolt grace. I want that kind of grace, you know, like one shot and finish. I truly, truly, truly want to ask because as I said, for three months I'm crying and no result. Just, just please.

Good, my dear, good. So if you could, if you could choose between one of the two, one is the want and the second is the grace, what would you pick?

Um, which, which ones you are asking? Because I want grace. I really want the grace. I really want the grace.

You see, so you cannot have the want and the grace at the same time. Of course, grace done, you want it. You see what I'm saying? No? May you repeat the... yeah. The absence of want is grace. And to want grace is, is a contradiction.

Father, there is too much want here. I want to get rid of this house, like this, you know. And what I expect from grace is just to race to do something about my wants.

Do you want grace as a secretary? She should be a secretary of grace. Miss Grace should come and she said, 'What do you want?' And then you say, 'I want this, I want a blue colored house.' It's not about house. I want to be, to let go of the want is to be finished. To want to be finished is, to want to be finished is to not want. I want so badly.

Yeah, okay. It's kind of, I don't know.

Okay, so now you got everything you want now. Now will you stop wanting?

May you repeat? Please ask the question again, I couldn't hear.

In this very moment, everything that you can ever want, you are. And you are more than that. So I would say this is a good time to stop wanting.

Okay. And it also includes not wanting to, like rejecting or...

Yes, yes. Not, not embracing or rejecting neither. The treasure is already in your pocket.

I know. And I know that nothing outside, nothing, nothing, nothing can fulfill me or satisfy me. And I feel I'm already satisfied and fulfilled at some degree, just having Guruji, just having you actually just give me this fulfillment, you know. I don't feel anything more than this. Just to find him and, and just be brought at your feet, it's like the greatest gives you no, just to find him finish everything.

Yeah, exactly. But still this thing just comes up. Not, not just so important, but yeah.

The 'but' is how the mind knocks. Because Father, it's just so deep-rooted thing to wait something from life, you know. Like, okay, I'm fulfilled and now I want to play with life and I do, but I don't know what is it.

You inquire into the nature of this 'I' or you surrender all of this. Leave all of this. Don't know anything deep or shallow, big or small, any of this. Hmm. Okay, we will come back to you. I see plenty of hands up and my throat is starting to give way, so let's see. Thank you. Okay, hello. Namaste. Leela, Leela can come.

Hello, Father. I put my hand up and down so many times, but we're right at the beginning. It's up and up, up now. Um, so I feel, I feel like my question should have been answered by so many people already, but, um, but, uh, I, I spoke to you several months ago about the fear of, fear of fear and the fear of identification and death. And, um, I never went to, never got follow up on my doctor's appointment, but so many, I feel it's coming so strong and even like I was, feel like I was able to follow the beginning of satsang, but there's constant 'What about this wrong with you? What, what about this that could be?' And, and it's, it's there is, you know, I know that something will happen to this body, so it kind of has an argument, you know. I feel like it's, but I, I don't know. Um, I feel like it's coming to be used in some way or it transcended of course, um, but I'm not sure how. And I know you kind of said let everything be, but I, but I, I feel like it's such a competition for my attention. And I don't know, sometimes I don't know should I... I, I was at the Zoom with Guruji last weekend and I'd written a letter about going. Sometimes he talks about trying to find the victim of the, you know, the suffering. And I'd asked a question to get a more explanation because I feel like I must be doing it not correctly because I feel like I've tried to do it so many times and it, and he says stay with it, but I feel like I could never leave ever the house again if I stay with it until something is revealed. But I guess my, I wanted to know about turning away seems impossible, but I don't know if that's just an idea and I'm...

Sometimes he talks about trying to find the victim of the suffering, and I’d asked a question to get more explanation because I feel like I must be doing it not correctly. I feel like I’ve tried to do it so many times and he says, 'Stay with it,' but I feel like I could never leave the house again if I stay with it until something is revealed. But I guess I wanted to know about turning away. It seems impossible, but I don't know if that's just an idea and I'm not working hard enough. It seems like it would take so much work to turn away from the thoughts. And then the idea of going into the feeling and trying not to listen to the thoughts, but the thoughts are very persistent and each one seems so urgent.

Okay, good. So we can talk through this together so I can assist you every moment and we can look at it. But first I want to say that every time I speak with you, I sense so much innocence and so much integrity, and I want to tell you that this will really... they are your biggest friends, okay? I can guarantee that you don't have a malicious bone in your body, you know? So you're very, very sweet and in a sense straightforward, and this kind of honesty is going to help you in a very, very beautiful way. Especially your innocence; that is so palpable to me and I wanted to just call that out. It is so clear to me.

Now, coming to the inquiry: there can be this idea that I have to turn away from something and turn towards something else, you see? But when we say I have to turn away, we are usually talking about our attention, isn't it? So, my attention seems to go on thoughts, but now I have to pull my attention out of that and bring it into my being or try and bring it to awareness itself. But what I'm saying is it is independent of wherever your attention may be. So you don't have to turn away from anywhere. You don't have to force your attention in any way, actually, you see.

Now, when I ask this simple question: Are you aware now? What is your answer?

Yes.

Now, I can guarantee you that you did not make that discovery that you are aware using your attention. Because if you did, then your awareness would also be perceived, because attention brings to us perception, isn't it? So attention can be on the outside world, our attention can be on thoughts, memories, emotions, you see, sensations—all of these things. But awareness is never a perception or a sensation, isn't it? You see? So all that I'm asking is that at least during the time of satsang, we let go of our interpretive mind, which is using all these perceptions and concepts to try and define reality for us. We let go of that and we rely on this which so innocently answers 'yes' when I say, 'Are you aware now?'

Where is that known? That's another question. When the question comes, it feels like it's answered, you know, even right up here. Like, it's known wherever the question comes, it is known in that space. And but then there's a question: Is it because he's always saying 'stay in your heart'? And it's like, it doesn't feel like it's in my heart. It feels like it's everywhere. I mean, wherever that... and that kind of throws my... but he pointed me in the invitation to this big aware space and then said 'stay in your heart,' but that feels like an enclosed, confined...

So, this heart is neither the idea of the emotional heart nor is it the physical heart. We use the term heart just to talk about this intuitive presence, this intuitive intelligence. But it doesn't have to feel that it's in the body or feel that it is in this location, okay?

Because they are talking so much about going from head to the heart, and sometimes I feel like my thoughts are not happening in my head; they feel like they can happen anywhere. So sometimes I just get stuck on those.

It is just a metaphor for going away from your thought's version of what reality is to your intuitive insight about what reality is, okay? So that is what going from the head to heart is. Anywhere you perceive it, even if it's not in the body. But I have to say that most commonly—but it's not necessary that in every case it has to be felt like that—most commonly thought activity seems to happen in the head. It's not true, but it seems like it. Where are your thoughts being perceived?

They're all happening in my head.

Yeah, it's not true, but many can experience it in that way. So it's not right or wrong, it's just a different way of experiencing yourself. It's fine. But what I'm pointing to is independent of that. So I'm pointing to that source of intelligence, that source of pure knowledge where, in response to a simple question like 'Are you aware now?', it is just apparent that you are, you see? It seems strange as to how could it not be? And yet you do not need for that recognition to happen for the confirmation with the mouth. Maybe you need to express it in concept, but for the recognition, you did not need to rely on any perception, any concept, you see. So when the advice is to remain in the heart, it means to remain with that intuitive insight.

Okay. Things come in very fast as soon as it is just...

Yeah, so when you say things come in very fast, I can also say things go very fast, because no thought can come and stay.

Yeah, the sensations seem to stay though. I mean, the sensations that the thoughts create, and then the next thought seems to feed it more.

But cause and effect is also a thorn, okay? This is just an intellectual interpretation of reality. This is a causation that just because something precedes something else, you see, there's a fallacy that it is the cause of the other thing. Whereas for all things that are manifest, there is only one cause, which is consciousness.

I like what... the sense that I guess there's such a sense that I'm doing the wrong thing and I'm responsible for the fact that this is still happening. But it's not really, it's...

So this is the conundrum of the 'I' that we are solving. Yeah, the 'I' is what we are solving. So what is the way to resolution? Either we do inquiry in this way—like today also I pointed a simple way to come to a recognition of what you truly are, you see—so we remain with that insight about what we are and we don't accept the false invitations from the mind saying 'but, but, but,' you see? Like, that is one way. And the second is to just, whatever it may be, it is God's problem or Guru's problem. Whatever we feel devoted towards, we surrender to that divinity because that divinity can handle it much better than we can. So these are the two main pointings in our paths, in Bhagavan's path: to surrender and to inquire.

I guess the inquiry, just before I stop... when you ask, or Mooji asks, 'Who?' And you asked me last time before, I said I don't want to be afraid. I said I identified with the fear and that, and you said there's something before that that doesn't want it to come. But I think I sort of goes along with the... my brain is shutting down... to ask 'Who?' Like when this fear had got up to use the toilet and there was a pain in my leg and it's like, 'Oh my god, no, here's something else.' It's like then there's something that just doesn't want that to come. But to ask maybe the inquiry, 'Who is that that doesn't want that to come?' And when I do ask that question, there's just kind of blank. I mean, there's just kind of a kind of peace. It's not... there's kind of... it's like, is that who I... I mean, it's just...

That's actually... that one doesn't mind because there is nobody like that. So obviously when you really look, you will see that there is nobody there. And that which is, is unconcerned about what plays out in the play of consciousness. Yeah, it's independent of that.

It's... I'm this... just that one. Not that one is hoping that this fearing so intense is a sign that something is disappearing, I don't know. Just, I hope that it means because it's just so much and so persistent. My daughter won't speak to me anymore because I can't... I can't stop. It's... I can't stop it. And that 'I' that wants to stop it...

So we are in this together. We'll see through this. Yeah, as long as you keep your innocence, you see through this with me, okay? Sorry, I'm just stopping because I can feel that my throat is quite done for today. So, okay, what you could do is you could revisit this conversation once as well, and I'm happy to speak soon when we meet next.

Well, you don't have to say anything to this, but I kind of wanted to follow up. I spoke something about it in case it bothered anybody else. I spoke about a time that I had been... had anesthesia and didn't sense that I was there. And it's like that was my doubt that, you know, that I actually... no, I realized after that the anesthesia that I had was conscious anesthesia, which meant that I wasn't really... somehow for some reason you don't remember it, but it's not the same as deep sleep. It's somehow it's like you were there and you were responding to commands and things like that, you just don't remember it. And I even knew that when I brought up the question, but somehow I was like, 'Oh, that's not important, I shouldn't bring that.' But probably that's a very important part of the whole thing. So in case anybody else thought... so I just wanted to say that.

Okay, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And the rest of you, some of you have your hands up, but I hope we can take the question on Friday when we meet next. Now what we're going to do is because we have one of my very special children here who loves k-pop, she's visiting me after a long time. You want to play k-pop at the end of satsang? No? You have a favorite bhajan? No? You don't have a favorite? Mama has? Mama, what do you want to play? Anybody?

Okay, I had a request. I have to remember how to play often. Okay, I had a request that... a master request to take the question of Jay Gurudev. She is under mental unrest. So, yeah, okay. I feel so much doubt in this thing. You can doubt everything. You can doubt everything, you see. But can you doubt the doubter? You can doubt master is a fraud, Vedanta teachings are all nonsense—everything is doubtable, you see. But who are you? That question still reminds me: Who is the doubter? Who is the doubter that is doubting? Who is aware of that doubter? So either you trustfully or you doubtfully, it will bring you to the same point.

There are many masters who have used doubt completely, and even in western philosophy, Descartes' main question was: What is undoubtable? What is it that we cannot doubt? So all this perception could be a dream, you see. It could be hypnosis, everything you see. But that which is aware of the doubt, can that be a dream? Can that be make-believe? So that is the investigation that we are doing together to find that which is undoubtable. So anyway, I don't see you now anymore, so I'm sending all my love and blessings and may Guruji's grace take care of whatever unrest is appearing for you. But don't be scared of doubt. Use it. Find out: What is it that you cannot doubt? Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Sri Mooji Baba Ki Jai.