This Awareness That Is Aware of Your Existence, Is Your Reality – 15th March 2021

So what is the... if you came, if this was a hospital and this was a doctor's room and you said, 'I have this problem, I take this character, you see, to be my reality and now I want to be rid of it,' what should the doctor say to the patient? Yeah, so we take the shadow to be this shadow, I take that to be me, how can I get rid of it? But you're right, you find the reality and the notion of yourself being the shadow then dissolves. So how to find this reality? How to find this reality is the essence of being free from the notion that I am the shadow entity, isn't it so? And the path, so-called path, which is really the pathless path, has been emphasized from here over and over again, and from all the masters who are sharing these pointings to this reality has been shared, isn't it? You see.

And primarily what is important is to understand the wrong way to find reality. The wrong way is to try and find it objectively as if it is a thing, because you make yourself to be a thing in that. So if you take yourself to be a shadow and you're looking for a bigger shadow to resolve the notion of shadowiness, that is not going to do it. So don't look for a thing. And the thing is anything that can be perceived. Yes. So what is the non-thing that you have come across? What is not a thing? You know what I mean by not a thing? Not perceivable, does not have attributes, quality, shape, size, length, breadth, height, duration. The perceiver itself is the recognition of that which witnesses all perception but itself cannot be perceived. And it sounds like a very fancy concept, but trust me, it takes much more effort to understand it conceptually than to just meet it for yourself, you see.

So that's the second tip: don't understand it conceptually. Don't make any shape of the notion of the unperceivable perceiver because you can't do it, you see. Your mind will offer you some visuals, then you will take that to be your reality, but whatever the visual is, it is not you. It is still perceived. Whether it is full of light or full of darkness, it doesn't matter; both are still perceived. So this is all the insight we need. How many still feel like you're taking a visual to be your reality? Okay, let me explain. If you had a spiritual experience and you take what you saw in that experience to be your reality—raise your hand. What you saw in that experience, if you take that to be your reality, raise your hand. Okay, I saw one hand and now he's under peer pressure. Okay, who else? Second screen. Okay, see something. Thank you, thank you for your honesty.

But simply don't do that. I have no better guidance. Just stop it. It's not you. Forget about it. If you saw it, it cannot be you, no matter how magnificent or how empty the visual looked. It was still a painting, still a painting of perception. So what to do in this situation is just to ask yourself: who is aware of the perception of that? Who's aware of the perception of that? Now, the same ones that raise their hands, do you feel that that which is aware of the perception of that has that particular attribute or quality of either lightness or darkness? No. How many are fully lost to what I'm saying? Okay, thank you. That helps me. That helps me.

Okay, so let me see if I can simplify because this is the main point. This is really the main point, and this has the potential to take all the struggle out of the spiritual path. And maybe that is the problem also sometimes, that because it is ungraspable mentally, it can feel like, 'But I'm really not getting it.' So what you have to do is, I will give you all the ability to unmute yourselves, but promise me that you will stick to what I am asking, okay? And talk about that for a moment. But if you get stuck at some point of what I'm saying, just stop me there. Unmute yourself, stop me there, and I want to look at this really with you. So the part about every perception coming and going is clear? Everything that you perceive, it comes and goes, isn't it? Yes. Okay. And if there is a fundamental basis to Vedanta, then it is that anything that comes and goes cannot be reality—at least not the reality that we are looking for. Yes, that matters here. Therefore...

Okay, let me mute everyone again. Sorry, this is not working, the experiment. Just raise your hand if you want to stop me. So we recognize from the pointings of the sages for centuries, they have pointed and said that every perception, it comes and goes, and anything that comes and goes is not the ultimate reality. This much I feel like everyone who's here is clear about. Now what is the attempt? If there is such a thing, it is to see if there is something—'thing' I use provisionally—something which is not perceived and yet recognized. Yes? Because that would be the discovery. Like every perception comes and goes, so what is that unperceivable recognition? And is there such a thing that I have come across? So the parameters of this experiment are clear now? At least not whether the recognition has happened or not, at least the parameters seem fairly straightforward. Good. Okay.

Okay, now, so sometimes I ask you this question, isn't it? I say: are you aware now? You see, how many... is there someone who feels they're not aware now? I'll talk to them later, no, after class. No, I'm just kidding. So, you're aware of the perception of this voice; that is undeniable, isn't it? But that which is aware is not hearing, it is not sight, it is not taste, it is not touch, nor is it smell. You see, all of these you can be aware of, but awareness is not just sight or hearing or taste or touch or smell or imagination, nor memory or thought or emotion. None of these attributes, they apply to this awareness, isn't it? Yes. Very good, very good.

Now you are able to confirm this because of your recognition of awareness, although you don't see it, you don't perceive it. The only absurdity there is because we are conditioned to the notion of 'seeing is believing,' you see. So we feel like we must have a perceptual darshan of it or image of it in some way and only then can I confirm its reality. But the Vedantic way is the exact opposite of that. You come to a recognition, an undeniable recognition of that which is unperceivable. Don't get confused with the word; we're still keeping it very basic. It's not perceivable because every perception comes and goes, therefore cannot be reality. And the whole point of self-realization is to come to that in a very direct way, isn't it?

Now most spiritual seekers in the world are trying to have a perception of this reality, which you cannot do. And all our struggles in a way have been about trying to come to that perception, but we cannot do it. And in fact, it violates the fundamental principle of Vedanta that if it is perceivable, it comes and goes and therefore it is not reality. You see, now we... when I said awareness, you see, is aware of perception but itself is neither sight nor hearing nor touch nor taste nor smell, all of you are able to confirm that, you see. Is it being confirmed just because you heard it somewhere, you have conceptual knowledge about it? No. It's because you can check right now, but you cannot find perceptually what you are checking, and yet you can confirm, you see. So there where you can confirm that you are aware now, it's not really a special place, but we have to use some words, you see. So there, or that, is what is your intuitive insight. You are aware now. You don't have to confirm this with your head, you cannot confirm this with your senses, and yet you can confirm this. So this is unique in the human condition recovery, because you're not using the traditional tools of knowledge and yet you can confirm something, you see. At least the non-thinginess of that something. Yes? With me? Sure? No, stop me if there's something, because the mind will try its best to confuse it or make it sound like a discourse or an abstraction where it's not. I'm trying to...

You have to confirm this with your head. You don't have to—you cannot confirm this with your senses, and yet you can confirm this. So this is unique in the human condition recovery because you're not using the traditional tools of knowledge, and yet you can confirm something. You see at least the non-thinginess of that something. Yes, with me? Sure? No, stop me if there's something, because the mind will try its best to confuse it or make it sound like a discourse or an abstraction where it's not. I'm trying to speak very, very directly.

So the basis of this confirmation is completely non-traditional in the sense that we relied on sight, we relied on perception, and we relied on thought to confirm or deny something. Here we are confirming something which is independent of these means. Now the beauty of this intuitive insight is that self-recognition is fully, fully apparent there. That is the most important. But also, it is that intelligence which runs this entire universe. It is that intelligence in the light of which this whole manifest play is happening.

So anytime the mind has you caught up, gives you a problem which you think you cannot resolve, you see, just find your refuge in that place where it is clear to you that you are aware. In fact, it is clear to you there that you are awareness itself in your primary nature, and the manifest aspect of this awareness—this conscious play—is just an aspect of you. It appears within you and it dissolves within you, you see, but not in the way our mind thinks of appearance and dissolving.

So now, if you did not need anything from this discovery or impose any sort of demand upon it from the shadow character—saying, 'Now that I see the light, my shadow should have a halo,' no, or anything, 'The shadow should have a nice life, the shadow should live in bliss'—if you did not impose any shadowy demands, you see, on this pure discovery, then there is no trouble. It is not something that you got; you saw that it is always like this. So therefore, it's not something that you can lose, you see. But if you impose judgments, interpretations, demands, desires on this very straightforward, simple discovery, you see, then it will seem like the shadow gets prominent again, you see, and this simple unperceivable light seems to get lost again.

Yeah, but still it is like limited to what this body, this perception is showing to me. I am that. I'm clear about that, which is—it feels like I'm only able to see what is this body perception.

And when you close your eyes, what can you see?

When I close my eyes, perception... I see darkness, visual. And if I say, 'Don't imagine a tree,' then you see a tree.

Then where—which body is seeing that? Which eyes are seeing that? So ask yourself: where is this awareness? How—what is this relationship with the body? Then this idea of body centrality, because our visual perception seems to be centered in this way, you see, it creates a perspective. Just like these games, you know, these kids are playing these games where it seems like you're inside the head of a character and you can look from there, you see. So it creates the feeling that I am contained in that body because the centrality of visual perspective seems to be that, you see.

But you could see anything at this point. You could see the same—what you could call imagination is the same projected light of consciousness itself. So, but I think a more direct pointing would be to find out where this awareness is. Where are you looking at this place from? You say, 'Oh, I can hear the sounds from the street because my attention can go there.' How does your attention go there if you are not there? Is the medium in which attention travels some hands are good?

That's the only deal when we are looking together. Yes, or when I'm inquiring on my own, awareness is always aware of itself. It is, yes.

But are you saying this conceptually or you see this?

No, no, I experience it. I experience it, yes, yes. And the medium is the consciousness. Everything arises, and knowingness is knowingness, and existence, beingness—it's all same-same. But there's something happens that...

Well, let's pause for a moment. Let's so that we can make sure we are on the same page. Now when we speak of awareness, you see, is there a notion about it being aware of itself? Like, is there a 'self' there?

It is everywhere. It's talking as analogy. It's talking as the in-appear and—and it's also beyond. It's always aware of everything.

Okay, now this idea, just forget it. Yes? Okay? That it is everything or nothing, just forget about it now.

What it means—it's same-same, everything same, nothing. It's—what do you mean?

What you mean, whatever remains, it's the awareness itself again. Ah, okay. Now forget about this idea. Okay? Now, 'I don't know if I am, if I am not, I don't know anything.' Are you going to get angry with me if I say forget about this idea?

No, I—I want to look without you and see what is going on here. Yes, yes. So now even I don't know anything. Leave that. I'm still here, huh? I am still here.

Still here. It's very good actually, but leave that also. That's it. That is resting in true insight. Of course, from here, which could have been your starting point as well—which I'm not denying—then some words may be needed for this conversation or communication, you see. But I just want to make sure that no conceptual shape is being relied upon.

I'm not saying I'm living every moment like this, but when I'm inquiring with you especially, or sometimes even when I'm on my own. Now I'm presenting myself as a separate entity. This is also happening. This is mostly happening. I take myself to be a separate entity mostly.

Okay. So in that moment, what is different than this moment in reality?

Nothing. It's always same. Nothing different. Just as the consciousness, then I believe myself to be a separate one, body. Yeah, if I don't believe, there's—it's all same-same.

Yes. So just to clarify, because sometimes when I don't clarify there can be some confusion about it. What I'm saying is that everyone is having moments of pure insight, okay? What can happen is that our mind comes up with a proposal and it says, 'Ah, this is what you're seeing. Everybody is one, one, one, one, same thing,' you see. Or, and it can start off as a proposal just to communicate, and that is completely fine. But soon it becomes as if that proposition contains the insight which I have, you see.

So when I say keep that also aside, I don't want even that—even fantastic, sublime, holy-sounding shape—to be caught, you see, held on to. So it becomes a pure openness, a naked intelligence, you see, fully, fully naked like that. And then somebody prods you and says, 'Okay, now you tell me something is going on with you. What is happening?' you see. And sometimes no words will come. Sometimes some words become like, 'Oh, I just see how everything is naturally the same. It's all one.' And that's fine, you see.

But not the other way around, where we have a pure insight and then we apply the same principles that we did in life before this and we said, 'Okay, this is what I saw, this is what I understood,' and soon that becomes primary and the insight becomes secondary, you see? So I don't want any of you to fall into that trap where the beautiful-sounding insight can also be very oppressive, you see, because it can come out—yeah, yeah, yeah—because it can take it like that. It can also tell you that that is how you're supposed to stay. This is not possible exactly, because it is only this conceptual understanding that we can insert into our narrative and therefore making it into something that we have to stay with or something that we have to remain as, or any whatever idea. And that then becomes the zen-up, like you said, you see, and becomes the—but when we leave it naked, uninterpreted, then how you put it in the story? Not possible. Not possible.

So I want to leave you in that easy, open, and empty state where if someone says, 'So what did you discover?' you see, and it's open. From that openness some words can come: 'I discovered my ultimate reality' or 'blah blah blah bleeply.' It makes no difference, you see, because what is important is not the words of communication, but you not taking yourself to be the central character of your narrative. And it's only possible to insert concepts into the narrative, the stories into the narrative, and even our interpretation of our discoveries into the narrative. Never possible to insert reality into the narrative.

Still I want to ask something. Yes, I experience—like even in the satsang or when I'm inquiring—the first thing I said, I think the same thing. I feel like I don't know. I don't know anything. I don't know what is me. I don't know if something is happening, not happening. And then some—is it okay? It arises like that because sometimes it brings fear or something.

Yes, yes. Yeah, it's very good actually. In fact, I prefer 'I don't know,' you see, as long as we also include the 'I' that doesn't know. Yes, this is also—who is this 'I' on the walls who doesn't know also? We don't know. No idea. That is very good. And satsang words also sometimes come like this: 'I don't know what is awareness, I don't know if something is happening.' It's okay then, as long as we are not—remember the rule is the same—as long as this 'I don't know' becomes a new part of our narrative. Because the mind is always grasping to be able to put something in the story, you see. 'I don't know' means I don't know what to put in my story anymore. I can't find anything to put in my story. But the mind, because it is sneaky, will try to use that itself in the story.

It did for some time and it's still sometimes doing, but to notice that is enough.

To notice that is more than enough. Thank you very much. So good. So happy to hear this report. So happy to be with you here and thank you very much. Oh, welcome. So good. Okay, lots of hands. I see Prabhad and Agudas and some more. Hello, hello India. Ah, you understand? Yes, then I keep the mic.

Yes, please, because I was not clear what is better. This is good. So I'm very, very thankful again for just for meeting you. And I'd like to report, because I made a discovery when we talked last time two weeks ago also. So I don't hear you, but I'm not saying anything like that, I'm just listening. Okay, yeah. Because beside of what we are talking afterwards, I noticed—because I was so excited, heart was beating, all kind of stuff we were talking about this and my problems with skin and so—and afterwards I noticed the biggest discovery was that actually I was so afraid to meet you and the biggest discovery was that there was nobody to be afraid of and there was nothing to be afraid of. And there was just, just this open, relaxed space and there was no need to be afraid or to be excited like hell and to, you know, because there is really nobody who can threaten me also, you know.

And for me this is a great, great gift because when I met Osho 35 years ago also, I had a front seat once and was sitting in front and he looked at me in the beginning, you know, and I met him. He looked at me and I felt and everything stood okay actually, but I did not believe. I was convinced I missed the meeting with him because I watched congress that I'm a bunch of, you know, and I—there must have been something, some emotion should have—should have to happen or something. And nothing happened and everything was okay and I thought, so I missed the meeting with him because this cannot be. And now after 35 years I discovered that it's true, it's okay and there is nothing. Yes, yes, but I needed all these years. This is crazy if you look back, you know. So for me this was a very, very big gift to discover with you.

So happy. I'm very happy to hear this report. Very good.

But what is—what I also like to ask, it was so strange. Some months ago when I met Mooji in the Zoom, he came in the Zoom room and I was totally overwhelmed. I was totally emotional and overwhelmed. And two years ago I met him physically, the same thing, totally overwhelmed.

And there is nothing, yes, yes. But I needed all these years. This is crazy if you look back, you know? So for me, this was a very, very big gift to discover with you.

So happy. I'm very happy to hear this report. Very good.

But what I also like to ask—it was so strange. Some months ago when I met Mooji in the zoom, he came in the zoom room and I was totally overwhelmed. I was totally emotional and overwhelmed. And two years ago I met him physically, the same thing, totally overwhelmed. But now with you, and that's why I was also so afraid to make a fool out of myself, I didn't know what happened to meet you, but now this discovery could happen. I don't know.

Yeah, sweet. All happened by his grace. I'm so happy to hear your report, and it's all my Master's grace. Yeah, yeah. So it's just nothing meeting nothing. No, not even that. Even that is too much. Okay, yeah, right? You see what I mean? Yeah. Because if it just becomes that, that is just nothing meeting nothing, it's very beautiful of course, but I feel like that is also not a true representation. It is everything meeting everything, and nothing meeting nothing, and none of those two also, and both. Very good. Thank you. So happy. Very good. So happy. Thank you. Thank you, my love. Thank you. Okay, we go to the next one.

Yes, closer is better. Yeah, my kind of question was, I was just wondering if it's the same or is it very far away for me to say that when you said, like, to be aware of this awareness, I felt to say that I'm just aware of everything. Rather, I don't know if that's very...

It's fine. It's completely fine, you see? It's completely fine. In fact, there is a misconception which is popular in some satsangs these days where there's this idea that when we come to the recognition, then there is some change in the state of awareness or something, and awareness becomes more aware of itself or something like that. But that is not the case, you see? Because if awareness had states, then it would also be the changeful. So it is not that awareness is changing and now it is more aware of itself. It is only that it's still part of the manifest play where, in the manifest play, we have been relying on the mind and our perceptions for knowledge, but we realize that there is a different source of true knowledge, which is our intuitive insight. Where in the intuitive insight, it is always apparent that my true nature is awareness itself, you see? So it can feel like, because this intuitive insight doesn't have a shape in that way, so it can feel like it is awareness itself which is becoming more aware of itself, you see? So, but awareness is unchanged through this entire play of identification and dissolution of the identification. It is awareness which has remained unchanged and untouched through all of this, you see? So when you say that 'I can simply see that I am aware of everything,' that is actually very good because you are confirming your awareness, you see? And you are confirming that awareness is aware of all the perceptions that arise.

I'm just going to tell you because I was a little bit trying to grasp it and maybe... so just like you remember, sometimes we see that there can be this idea that I am aware of perception only because there is perception. But when we say I'm sitting on a couch, we are aware of what's sitting and what the couch is. In the same way, when we say aware of perception, we are aware of both sides. Yes, yes. That's why I was checking also this because we talked about this in the past and I was thinking, am I going here or it's something else? Because I don't want to be in this just to say, yeah, because I'm perceiving, but that's what I'll call awareness. But it's much more because even well, different states during sleep and I believe when we die, well, this will not change, or at least in some way it will stay. And it's, yeah, also just to say, yeah, recently something was also feeling which it's interesting. Yeah, should I take it seriously or just take it as some perception or maybe both? But like, maybe I should be more again some deepening, you know? Something feels like, okay, maybe there is deepening, and then some words would come up. Maybe no, it just has to happen by itself if there is something. But also, well, and deepening would be in my sense to see that there are more things which are unreal.

Which, yes, exactly, exactly. That's very good. So what you can say is, suppose there is a container and the container is full of rocks. It's full to the brim of rocks. Now, when the rocks are being thrown out of the container, it can feel like the container is deepening because there is more space from the rocks. But the container has always been the container. But it can feel like there is a deepening because the rocks are being thrown away. So you are absolutely right. As you are seeing the unreality of the notions you have carried, you're getting free from those notions and therefore it can feel like you have more space now, and that can feel like the deepening.

Yeah, it's just because somehow, while I was working and being in this, let's say, involved in regular life for a bit, and I got the taste more of this life when, let's say, I was in India or Portugal, I would be a little bit still craving for this, you know? And now just being here and tasting more, then feels like, yeah, it's also, let's see, heavy, you know? It's not what I imagined to be, you know? And in that comes somehow the pull to let go of it.

Yeah, just don't... like my tip for you for this week, and we'll meet again on Friday or Monday, but is that don't determine the nature of anything for the moment. Yes, nothing of value will be lost if you don't determine what you think is or what is happening, not happening. And that might be what then I can make the claim on your behalf: a great deepening. Okay.

Hello, Father. Father, I feel that I need to keep exposing stuff that I feel are blocking somehow being, because I still feel a lot of resistance, a lot of resistance. And I'm realizing that it's a lot of fear. Fear, fear, fear, fear of many things. Fear of being judged, fear of losing what I think is valuable. I don't know, I don't know. I feel that the thing that I've been working as an artist, yeah, there is a lot of identity in that. There is a lot of... I don't know that inherits a lot.

Like if the movement of the body leads to artistic outcomes, it doesn't matter if certain movements of the body lead to artistic outcomes, you see? Yeah, it doesn't naturally mean that the movement is full of identity. It is if you take yourself to be that who is creating those outcomes, you see? In your limited body-mind as that which is creating those outcomes.

Yes, this is what I see, that there is like this being an artist. 'I'm an artist,' no? And because I was... it's like you see that they need to be recognized, no? From you too, or from Guruji, or from anyone. This needs to be seen and to be somehow, yeah, to have an importance to know. I don't know. I see that it's because I don't know, because somehow I can't identify with this anymore a hundred percent, but at the same time I feel that I can't be myself a hundred percent. I know that it sounds crazy, but I needed to say it. I need to say it.

So what is the impression that all of us should have of you according to that voice? According to that voice, what is the impression? For example, an enlightened genius or something like that? Enlightened eccentric genius? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Oh my god, very good. Thank you. Thank you for the courage to share that. It's very good. And but I already consider you more than that. I cannot step down. I cannot step down. I know in my heart that you are God itself, and God is the greatest artist I've ever met. As much as he said, it looks like I'm telling you as if I'm telling you something very terrible about yourself. You are God, and you are saying that, 'But I am little old me, but think better of this.' But I'm saying God. No, but you want to take yourself to be a little old me, but you want to be a special little one, you see? And this is the nature of the human condition, that I am actually saying that we are one, we are one being. And I'm not just saying it conceptually because I read it somewhere. I see that is true, and you are God itself.

I feel like that I'm like tight, like I'm trying to... oh, I can't let it go because if not, I don't know. I feel like I know that it's just... I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. I don't know how many things I know, eh? I know everything, eh? My god, sorry.

Oh, it's very little. What you're trying to say is that you realize that all of emotion can just be the mask, you see? And actually you're also discovering that it is a fear of letting go of this identity, you see? In your case it is artist, and in the case it could be something else and something else, and all of us can have these primary identities. And the mind will always tell you that without this, what are you? What do you have, you see? What security is there? Suppose all of this satsang and about the Self and God is all hocus-pocus nonsense, then what are you left with? So at least hedge your bet somewhere, at least have a backup plan. But when it comes from the mind, it can be quite compelling that without this, what if you are not God actually? What if you are actually just this body-mind, you see? What if actually you are just this body-mind, and without the artist body-mind, what are you? Is the body the artist? No. So who wants a certificate? Art, great. What is it? Exceptional enlightened eccentric artist. Very... because who should I want it? But he's just poking at them. Remember the laughter. Then it proposes the same oppressive idea again. It's good to laugh at it because once we see it is a laughable notion, then it is not so oppressive. And when satsang gets over, when the proposal comes on the mind, you remember that we laughed. I'm very glad you're able to share all these things. It's helpful for everyone, you see? Because everybody has their artist somewhere. But it's not only about being an artist. It's a daughter, yeah, this is a lot of ideas. Enlightened musician, rockstar, good partner, good disciple, of course. Thank you, Father. I don't know what to say right now, but thank you. Just whatever the mind is proposing to you, whatever shape the mind is representing, the highest sound, even the shape which I said, 'You are God itself,' even that can be taken as a shoe, you see? But whatever it is proposing, your acceptance of that shape for yourself is always a step down. It is never a step up. Always a step down from your reality. And you realize that all of these, even enlightened, you see, there's no great thing about being called enlightened. Should be. All my love, all my blessings.

Good to see you.

Good to see you too.

I don't know what I'm going to say, just came up. Just wanted to see you, Father. You know that many of us want to inquire about your health and how you're doing today. You look... your body does look more energetic and better. Getting better. Sorry, I don't have anything to say.

Yes, leave it open. If something comes up, we have time. You say something, Father, or just go? I don't have anything to say. Did you enjoy that conversation with you about the artist thing? You want to share something?

I was listening. Shauna came and crying so loud so I got distracted, but I heard parts of it. He was saying that the mind proposes to him this kind of idea that Father should recognize me, Guruji should recognize me. Do they actually even know how good an artist I am? I'm quite...

Anything to say? Yes, leave it open. If something comes up, we have time. You say something, Father, or just go? I don't have anything to say. Did you enjoy that conversation with you about the artist thing? You want to share something? I was listening. Shauna came and crying so loud, so I got distracted, but I heard parts of it. He was saying that the mind proposes to him this kind of idea that Father should recognize me, Guruji should recognize me. Do they actually even know how good an artist I am? I'm quite famous, you know. So this kind of the mind can propose this kind of thing. And all of you with this kind of special talent at something, the mind can use that, which is a great gift from God itself, you see, as a way to catch, you know, in some way. And I know that over the years we've had some conversations about this topic. So do you want to share something from your inside about this for him and for everyone else?

Yeah, I feel like over the years, like with all the singing that happened from here, and it, I think it did creep in somewhere, you know, like a little bit. Like you kept saying, like, don't pick this single identity. Or I feel like somewhere it crept in very unknowingly, very subtly, in a way that I don't know if I wanted that recognition like he was saying. Because it was already given in a way here, it just came like that. So that part, it didn't play. But I felt like it played like, like I said, like the monopoly part, you know, where, um, yeah, it did poke. It did poke it in different ways. Like this is the same thing, the same artist identity, but it poked in a few different ways, which was very good, very good. But very sweet that he could just come up. And I feel like that recognition, like I want Father's recognition, I've seen that play in enough, you know, few of us. Like the enlightenment certificate, which can play like, you know, but Father doesn't say that to me, or my Father doesn't... it's the same thing that plays around with all of us, I guess, in different ways. It's very sweet he could just come up and speak like.

I just wanted to say, Father, like, whatever message I received yesterday, I just, as I was listening to it, it was almost like a conscious feeling in my heart, like just, I'm just placing it at your feet, you know? Like just placing it at your feet. Because I don't know, because over the years I never realized that, you know, it could get in somewhere like that and it could feel like some kind of a specialness. And so if I hear anything about it, it's just always at your feet.

Yes, I'm not so worried about this one in your case now because you had quite nice open-heart surgery about it a few months ago.

Yeah, it was very good actually, because until that it was playing, but I didn't realize it was playing in a way. It was very good. I don't know when I can to pick you up. I'm a little nervous coming by myself with all the episodes we had. But how do you call him? I have another friend called Jugal at work, and he looks a bit similar once you speak. But I don't have anything to say. I was feeling a little awkward to come up because I don't have anything to say. I don't know what else, but I just wanted to see you.

I'm glad that we're getting over some of that awkwardness to come up and, you know, just be empty and see what emerges. Like there could be this feeling that there might be some burning questions and I don't want to take another's time. All these categorizations also, more or less, we are doing away with. Of course, you feel like you can sing now at the end, or you will still want to rest? Someone? Ah, okay, okay. Can't find it. Okay. Um, we have... what happened to Natalia? Natalia?

Hello, dear Ananta. Can you hear me?

Can I hear you?

First, I want to say that I am very, very grateful for this opportunity to be in satsang with you. And then, I would like to... my English is not very good.

Everybody take a time and please know that you're completely welcome here and treat it like your own house.

Thank you very much. For several last months, I experienced myself more and more as the consciousness, and I see it very clearly. And after with you and very many signs of belief in my life and the life of my family, but at the same time, very strong mind attacks. And all these mind attacks are about the same thing which is here, about the same thing which was here always all my life, about the fear of death. And I cannot say that it's here because I see very clearly for many, many years, I see very clearly that there is nothing to happen with me as consciousness. But my head is completely terrible states of mind. I experience terrible state of mind and all they are about this, about death or something bad will happen. And yesterday, my son, which he lived in another country, and he was beaten on the street by some guys, and very unexpectedly. But gracefully, it was very quickly and help came very quickly. But so many interpretations came to my mind that if such thing happened, then I do something bad, I do something wrong, all my family does something wrong, and why this thing happened and so on. And I see that all this in the mind. And I had this pray that for God that if you have, if you want to show something to him, then please do that he see it correctly, that he sees that you show him. And I saw that this habit to interpret... I worked with psychologists many years, and this habit to interpret things about if it happened, then maybe you have some aggressive or something, these things. And I see now that it's nothing, but I would like to ask you if you could say something about this move.

Very good. I feel like your report is very beautiful. And firstly, of course, all our love, blessings to your son and his body recover very quickly. And I'm glad to hear that he got the help very fast, so that is good. Guruji's greatest blessing, he completely heals. But I really want to say that I hear some deep insights in your report. And it's fine, you're a psychologist, and as a psychologist, many times you have to diagnose and say, 'This is the condition, this is the thing,' you see. And there's a space for that in the world, and it's fine in the world. Now you come into satsang where we are constantly advised not to make a sort of shape or conceptual shape to whatever is being discovered. And you're seeing that. And sometimes it can feel like there is a struggle with that because the condition is to try and say, 'This is what this is,' you see. 'This is what this is, this is what this is.' And now we are asked to meet life completely open and empty, you see. And it can feel a bit strange because these invitations to make shape keep coming. But you are noticing that, and that's basically the best that you can do. If you involve more doership with that and you involve mental noise with that, saying 'I have to stop,' just like 'Why does this happen?' then that is not helpful either. So already you are noticing it and it is good.

So with this fear thing that you mentioned, you see, we can try and look at it like, how big can that fear be? Like last satsang I said, just invite it right now in satsang and say, okay, how much peace can you take? Can we try? How much what? How much peace? Suppose your being is hundred, the space of your being is hundred feet, let's see. Then anything that comes, you see how much space in that hundred feet can it take?

And do I see from this perspective, I see that nothing. But usually it came, but you cannot do anything with that. Mind speaks like that, and for years, for years, and with headache and so on. I see this, I see this.

And the theme of your biggest fear, the most recurring fear, is it death you said, or what is it? What is the theme of it?

I can say that inside me here there is not, but in my head it is, yes.

Yes, and when it is in the head, it has to have a story. So what is the story of your most strong story?

Is of losing some of my family or to have disease. All it is about losing or death.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. All fear ultimately is related to the loss of identity. And the family relationships, body, losing any of these are the close elements of the identity. So the ego presents these fears saying you cannot do that, but actually it is all related to what we take ourselves to be. So but you're doing well. I feel like there's nothing unnatural in these fears. These are the natural ones that exist in the human condition, and you've gone beyond what most do in the human condition to spot them and say, 'Ah, this is just the mind proposing that I am a limited entity and I will lose something at the loss of this body or at the loss of anybody.' These are the proposals and you are aware of that.

So you also spotted, like you have very good points in the short time you spoke actually, you also spotted this need to interpret because of the prior conditioning as psychologist or whatever, the need to interpret so much. But when we really look at it, if we were to dissect it, you see, so leave this uninterpreted. Okay? Leave this uninterpreted. And the 'there is nothing,' just that's also interpretation. So leave that also now. Don't interpret. So definitely in that interpretation, what is more truthful? The uninterpreted or the interpretation?

The uninterpreted.

And this, whether your mind likes it or not or you believe it or not at the moment, is fundamentally what I'm saying. Your uninterpreted truth is better than any interpretation that you could have about the world, about yourself, about life, about truth, about love, about existence, about God, about the Self. Is it to leave yourself unharassed by these interpretations is to be more truthful, although your mind will complain that, 'But I'm not getting any truth. What is the truth in this uninterpreted?' Get used to that as the truth. Get used to that as the truth because that is the highest. That is the very unborn. That is the very unborn in which all things are perfectly resolved. And the minute you cover it with a belief, what you think is just becomes the birth of the mind, the birth of identity, and everything seems to get mixed up, you see.

So just these experiments I offer to you so that... because the mind will keep proposing saying, 'You see, but here this is a nice way to look at this, you see, this is a nice way to look at this.' But it's not. Or it's not even this, isn't it? Because otherwise we can keep playing that game, and often I call it the game of confusion-conclusion, conclusion-confusion, confusion-confusion. So it is the same conclusions that we draw today that becomes the confusion of tomorrow, you see. And then you roll fresh conclusions and fresh conclusions. So as long as you keep playing this game of interpretation thinking that you're assimilating some reality or truth, that game can continue. That intellectual paradigm of picking up and dropping and picking up. It's almost like the story of the myth of Sisyphus, is the one of the gods who's designated with the job to pick up a rock and to carry it to the top of the hill, and then at night it's allowed to roll down the hill and then next week... but this is the game that we are playing with our head. We pick up a version of reality, then you see it is not enough, you throw it. It starts poking us, we suffer, we throw it. You pick up a fresh one because we feel too naked, too empty, you see. So we feel like, 'I need a new idea about what this is,' you know. And then we like... it comes with bells and whistles. All of this is divinity. No, it's nice, you hold it, and then something happens. Right? No, it's not that hard. It is anyway... I know you're not... you can laugh, but the thing is that this what sounds like nonsensical is less nonsensical than the nonsensical we put in our heads. Because all our words in the... 'Ah, this is what it is now, I figured it, this is what it is.' I'm still getting poked.

So we feel like, 'I need a new idea about what this is,' you know? And then we like it when it comes with bells and whistles. All of this is DVD, no? It's nice, you hold it, and then something happens, right? No, it's not that hard. It is anywhere. I know you're not... you can laugh, but the thing is that this, what sounds like nonsensical, is less nonsensical than the nonsensical we put in our heads. Because all our words in the... 'Ah, this is what it is now, I figured it. This is what it is.' I'm still getting poked. 'This is what it is, this... but this is what it is.' We try to keep using the concept so that the suffering stops, you see? It just doesn't work. It may have seemed to provide some band-aid initially, but it loses its efficacy pretty soon and then it just doesn't work. Yeah.

So they're crying about abortion and a girlfriend or something, and because we've been in satsang, we're just saying, 'But I am consciousness and pure consciousness.' But why do we have to leave consciousness? So it causes more churning and more contradiction within you. Better that you just cry, you just like that. But this kind of playing conceptually with this thing doesn't really happen. If it plays as a reminder, it's a pointer. You say, 'I am conscious,' and then you don't just settle for it conceptually. You just look: who's leaving who, or what is here? It can be used in that way, but for that, you don't need the encyclopedia of spiritual concepts. Just find one or two which really help and are good pointers for you. That is enough to do the cleanup job.

But just working with interpretations and conceptual ideas... so what happens is our notions can change. In one, this can be like, 'Oh, this is just a hand,' and you become spiritual, 'Oh, he's blessing us, then he's telling us to stop if you're worried, and you know, stop, right?' And it can feel like, 'Ah, we are progressing in our motion,' but it's as much nonsense as the first one, if not worse, actually. And this may be tough medicine to swallow, but it's like... it's just that our ideas about what something is doesn't make any difference to life in reality. Only that it can seem like the experience of living seems to be much more full of suffering, but in reality, it is nothing. But don't fall for the mind which will now propose to you that, 'Hey, what this means is everything is meaningless.' I never said that, you see? I am only saying that the meaning is too big for your mind to swallow, too broad. God or truth is too broad for us to understand. Even the nature of the play of the mind is too much for the mind to understand. That's why all these forms of understanding the mind are not fully sorted, not fully resolved.

But if you just heard from all that rambling, if you just heard one thing, which is: the uninterpreted is more truthful than your highest interpretation of anything at all, then that much rambling was good. And your story about the spiritual stethoscope was very helpful for me. With our spiritual knowledge, we're just oppressing ourselves. So because we have so many more troubles than regular people once you become serious, because we think we understand so much and we try to be spiritual about it. Thank you very much. Thank you, very, very good. Sorry about that all-round rambling answer, that's just how it played out. You're welcome to come again. Yeah, always welcome. Okay.

Okay, now I don't know the order at which the hands were released, but I feel... Adrian, Peter. That's a good start. Some more also? Okay. My answers are not getting better, how come I'm getting so many more questions? So good to be here.

So I had a question: is it okay to have preferences, or is it the lack of unconditional love and acceptance? So I'm enjoying listening to your words and contemplating. I enjoy listening to the insights of how people's lives transform. But if I go to my locality and someone with whom having a conversation is draining mentally and energetically, so I tend to walk in the opposite direction to avoid that person. So yeah, so I tend to run.

Now, it's fine. You heard what I said? I said I tend to run also sometimes. Sometimes it's okay. But I won't label myself as having a preference for running, you see? Because sometimes somebody could be saying something and I could see that some energy is being drained, but it's okay, I don't run. I don't know why I don't run sometimes. Sometimes it could be an enjoyable conversation also, but I could run. I don't know why I run. So allowing it to function in this open way without deciding whether, 'Okay, this is the circumstance, this is what's actually happening here, this is the stance that I should take about it.' That seemed like too much work to me, you see? It's like there are wheels on the back and it can be just carted with the wheels, and why do I have to carry it on the head? Some supreme intelligence is already taking care of all of this stuff, then I don't need to decide what I have to do about it.

Most of these things, the preferences are drafted post-facto. In any view, you could have run very naturally or walked away very naturally, but the mind later will say, 'Ah, because this was happening, therefore it's good that you walked away.' But is it okay? Is it a preference? Is it... I'm happy? Is it that kind of thing? But it's all post-facto. It doesn't matter. It is just allowing life to play out as it is meant to play out without judging either life or yourself, which is the same thing actually. But without any judgment either way is this openness and emptiness that I'm talking about.

Another doubt I had also got answered. There was a young girl in my locality and she had these repetitive thought patterns, thinking too much, and the doctor labeled her OCD and now she's on pills. And many of my friends have all these labels of anxiety, panic, or OCD. So there's an urge in me to stop them from taking medicine, obviously with the guidance of the psychiatrist, and turn to exercise and listening to some satsang and that way. But then this is always a dilemma: is that the right thing to do? Maybe they have some brain problems.

So we cannot really say. Like, I could not templatize and say. I just have to rely on my intuition from moment to moment. In fact, at one time—now I don't know what the count is, we've not done any such poll—but if you were to take the professions of the ones who were coming to satsang with me, the highest number was psychiatrists. So some of the dearest children I have in the sangha are psychiatrists, actually. And they're helping in their own view and they're trying to include... sometimes they do tell me that they have some norms, so sometimes they just want to shake up somebody and say, 'But who are you?' but their norms prevent them from doing that. But in their own way, they are also trying to bring some openness into the situation.

So I wouldn't be too prescriptive about it and say, 'No, no, it's all bad,' neither will I say, 'No, no, it's all good.' I just have to say that I don't know. Just moment to moment, what emerges in my intuition, I have to operate based on that. So I have seen many whose lives have been saved by psychiatrists and psychologists and they were in deeply suicidal states, and of course many who feel like they were not helped by going to psychologists or psychiatrists. So nothing in life really... I found that if I was to put in words, I just have to say the same thing: I have not found anything in life where you can be so deterministic about it and say, 'This is how something is.'

So it's all about dropping that doership and trying to plan, and letting the natural intelligence intuit what to say to the person?

Yes, yes. I will rely on that kind of position, a provisional position rather than a very deterministic sort of position. Thank you.

Eric. I'm not sure what I'm going to say. Before putting my hand up, I was feeling this thing that I wanted to check in with you about, like this impulse or inertia to go to my mind or concept. And it seems like when I do, when that happens, it seems like the awareness gets forgotten or something. I don't seemingly hit them, you know? And I wanted to expose this inertia, this habit. I guess it also takes time and the constant inquiry and confirmation to like... but as you say, it's always right now. This is the starting point. I should not think about the future.

Okay, yeah. This is a good example, no? So the truth is always right now. Even the end of conditioning, actually, is complete in the unborn in this moment, you see? Because the conditioning cannot be a problem which remains unresolved in the unborn. Master Bankei didn't say, 'Oh, all problems except conditioning are resolved in the unborn,' you see? He said all things are perfectly resolved. And yet—and this is where the intellect has trouble because according to the intellect it has to be either this way or that way, you see—and yet it is because of the momentum of this conditioning and how much habit we have to go back to this conditioning, whether we call it impulse, inertia, habit, it's all the same thing. That is why we have these meetings so often, because the reminders... we just point again and again. We bathe in the energetic presence of satsang often, where it seems a bit gentle, a bit easier to let go of the mind, and that sort of gets us used to living in that climate of openness, in that climate of emptiness. And that seems to take some time.

So both are true. You're completely free right now, empty of all conditions, and also that the play of conditions usually seems to take some time to settle. So what your job is, is to remember: the greatest gift that you can give yourself is that one moment of emptiness, one moment of openness, and not be concerned about the outcomes. My job in a way as a master is to make sure that you're progressing well over time, you see? So leave the time element to me. You focus on my pointings now, now. Thank you.

Thank you. You want to share something more? Yeah, I wanted to expose this thing about this being happening for a long time, like for years, like the anxiety that I have especially in the morning when I get up. I feel like it's also connected to this future thing, this time thing, the first three balls, you know? But I just wanted to expose it because it's been pretty heavy and I also took medications for it and yeah.

Very good. Thank you for sharing, my dear. And yes, yes, anxiety is about the future, and the future is the notion on which the thoughts, the anxious thoughts, they rely. And you can just, like I keep saying, just notice and don't get involved in any other way, that it has to stop or try to push it away. You're not doing that anyway, I'm aware of that, and you're doing well. You're doing well.

One of the reasons that I stopped taking my medication for anxiety is that I wanted to face it. I wanted to let it come and not judge it like it has to go away, you know? And because the psychiatrist that I went to, she was insisting to take these pills, you know? I felt like it was presented like it's a problem.

Yeah, as you say, we cannot be deterministic. Maybe for some people it's helpful. Exactly. You just have to follow your heart, you see? You just have to follow your heart because many times... in your case, of course, I'm completely comfortable about it, but in many cases it can happen that there can be a sort of spiritual arrogance which says, 'No, no, but come on, with my insights why do I need medication?' you see? It can be like that. And who can actually determine what it is, you see? Only you in that moment in your heart can determine what the smell of that is, you see? Whether it is egotistical or it is purely heartfelt. That is impossible for someone to say; it will be pure speculation. So this is very good. Keep following your heart in this way and you're doing very, very well. Very well.

One more thing I wanted to share for a long time is about my mother. Yes, she passed...

Why do I need medication? You see, it can be like that. And who can actually determine what it is? You see, only you in that moment in your heart can determine what the smell of that is, you see, whether it is egotistical or it is purely heartfelt. That is impossible for someone to say; it will be pure speculation. So this is very good. Keep following your heart in this way and you're doing very, very well. Very well.

One more thing I wanted to share for a long time is about my mother. Yes, she passed away four years ago and many times I feel like guilt, like guilt about the fact that maybe I didn't appreciate her fully, you know? And maybe I wasn't open enough to her while she was alive. And sometimes I would get angry and, you know, and I'm sorry for all these things. I just hope that she can forgive me for these things.

Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm sure her heart is clear about this. Both of you have been so loving to her and beautiful. I remember her passing also and it was beautiful. Your hearts were very beautiful about this and I only sensed pure love from all three of you. It was pure love. Do you remember when we met in Montessori? Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I've forgotten the order, but let's go to Peter.

Can you hear me? Yes. Um, yeah. Thank you for being here today. Much love, so much love. I just felt like I needed to say, you know, I don't acknowledge how much I've come to these meetings in so many forms with pride and arrogance and like I know what needs to happen, I know who I need to be and how I need to be here for it to go the way it needs to go. And I truly recognize I don't know what needs to happen here today anymore than I ever have. But definitely this day I recognize I don't know what's supposed to take place here today. And just I am here, I am here how I am here.

Yeah, this is very good. Very good. Wonderful. That is so beautiful. And to come to this meeting empty is to come full of love. I'm so happy, I'm so happy to hear this because what happens is when you come like this, you're not here just to confirm what you think you already know. It is then that fresh sunlight comes through. Otherwise, usually what happens, and most naturally in most meetings, is that most of the listeners start to pay most attention when it is confirming what they think they already know. It is countering their beliefs; that is why the clean-up job sometimes seems to take so long. And that is just pride, you know? It doesn't seem like pride; it seems like a natural reason. It is very beautiful that you spotted this and this is very helpful, very helpful.

And you know, they used to say—I used to be a little bit in A Course in Miracles community—and in A Course in Miracles they always used to say, 'If you spot it, you got it.' But I've changed that a bit and I say, 'If you spot it, you're dropping it.' You're starting with these conditions, with this arrogance, with this pride. It is like a blind spot that we don't see. All my blessings, all my love for this. May the seeing take away every condition, every drive to every arrogance.

Can I just say one more thing? Yeah. The thing I really failed to recognize is this, like something's wanted to be here to remain, to have gotten it, you know? Like, yeah, something wants to remain as the getter, the one that can now go and show the world. And I see that it's not possible. It's not possible.

Not possible. Not possible. This being there in the space for anything useful to come, this has to be completely removed. It's a total obstacle. Like, to be in service to truth is to disappear. And it's the only, as I see it, it's the only place that I will find the peace and the contribution and the love that I seek. I see it's not possible if I stay here, if I remain as a one to do it. I can't do it. I see this. It's that one that's been seeking and trying and knows so much. No, it's just pride. It's just, you know, memories and it's just... yeah. And how to truly disappear and be used by truth?

Very good. Music to my ears. Music to my ears. Touches my heart. And beautiful, beautiful noticing. And just even the holiest of ideas, it is not something that we can decide in any conceptual way anyway. Okay, thank you. Uh-huh, that's good news. Okay, all my love. Okay, hello.

I just wanted to... what I'm going to do is I'll mute because there's an echo coming and after you finish then I'll unmute myself. I see maybe it's called ego or the need to be recognized, the need to be appreciated. And it's been there, I've been there for a long time and all of my life, I think, I guess. And I don't know, it's ego or yeah. And that seems to be coming very, very strongly of late. And I mean, in normal life you don't get an opportunity to expose this because everywhere you're putting your best foot forward and, you know, doing stuff to get appreciation. So I just wanted to expose this and put it at your feet and ask for your advice. Any advice for this? What do I do?

It's very good. It feels like this is the theme of the satsang today in some sense. So just to plot this a little more, poke this a little more: if you could have one version of Shubha that the whole world could know, what is that version? What should we know about you that you're so good at?

No, I don't want anybody to know anything about Shubha because I see that there's no Shubha there. There's no Shubha. And still, where does this come from? Because it keeps playing and I keep seeing it come up. Do you want to be recognized that you see that there is no Shubha? No, no, actually I keep running away, kind of like looks like I keep hiding and keep running away from recognition. But in that hiding, I think that ego gets hidden somewhere and this need gets hidden somewhere. So I mean, that's why this exposure also is becoming so difficult to put myself forward. But I thought that by that hiding, by trying to pull myself down and not show myself and not be recognized, I'm actually hiding that need somewhere.

So it is a false humility version of arrogance. Yeah, exactly. Again, I have to say that it is so beautiful for you to spot this, all of you to be over-exposed. Because when they are no longer in the blind spots, you see, there's a saying that sunlight is the best disinfectant. So as all of this is coming into your own light, in the pure light of your being, all of these which have been hidden in crevices here and there—and we've actually thought that these kind of ideas are a natural way to exist—and this idea of humility, like false humility... why I call it false is just the representation is still of the false one who has to be humble and not take the spotlight, you know? But somewhere there's a mild arrogance about how good we are and how we don't clamor for attention. So all of this can be a bit, you know, like the flip side of the coin of arrogance, but arrogance all the same.

And it's beautiful that in today's satsang you've all had these reports where you're spotting these conditions which can seem so natural to so much of humanity. It can seem so natural and now you're spotting them. And just like you spotted it, it is dropping. You see this? The light is on it. What does the sunlight have to do to disinfect? You see, nothing. It is just the presence of the light is the best disinfectant, you see. So don't create a position and don't add any more like conceptual stuff to it. If you don't add any more, don't beat yourself up for sure. Don't say, 'Oh, I'm afflicted with this bad version of this condition.' None of that. Just something came to your attention because you noticed that this thought comes in: 'Just don't speak, you know, it's better if you stay humble.' This kind of thought which carries the representation of you as a body-mind gets believed in, and now you notice that this propensity to believe these kind of thoughts is there. And that's it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Don't put yourself in any shape. Don't put life in any shape. Don't put the world in any shape. Now that shape could be humble or arrogant; it doesn't matter. All shapes are too small. So I'm very happy, I'm very happy to hear you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Love you too. Okay, so the ones I've spoken to, if you put your hands down that will help. Prahaj and then come with you.

I'm here already. See again, all the time. Okay, okay, that's me and her on a board and she just drew it with a peacock on it. Yeah, I do with my hands because I don't have any paint brush. Okay, cool, you know. Because you didn't scold anybody so far. Thank you. Thank you so much for everything. Your head looks fully recovered and full of light and shining now. Yes, yes, you are getting lighting. Yesterday was my birthday and before yesterday all stitches were removed on my head. I am so grateful. I feel your so much grace on me.

Very good. It was your birthday. So much grace. And something I remind on my mind every time, every moment, especially when I was angry. Like sometimes the mind goes some other way, some family problem, they want to tell me, 'No, no, do that, do this.' So much grace about you all also. This is the truth. So I feel you are my mother, you're giving me all blessings. My Guruji, Guru is your God. That same godliness is what I discovered with my Father's blessings, with Guruji's blessings. That this same that you are experiencing is what this head is forever bowed down to. And thank you, thank you for reminding me of that.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. This song's for you, for me, Mahadev with you. Thank you, thank you, man. Thank you so much. I need your blessing always, Gurudev. I always remember you, deep conscious properly, meditate on you. I just need that in my life.

If I speak a bit more, yeah, yeah. I don't feel right now is significant, right now at this moment, anything significant to say right now. Was there something earlier when you raised your hand? You can share that also.

It felt like, I don't know why, but maybe a little fear to come up today. I don't know why it would be here but I kind of felt it. Just like, no, you're good, it's just fine. And this thing, I like that imitation. Good you came up then. Thank you. Are you still translating a bit for your brother or?

Not right now, he's not here right now. But what language is... Czech. Czech I speak. Yeah, thank you for helping your brother as well. It touches my heart, you know, whenever somebody is just doing this out of the love in their hearts. It's very beautiful. What is still with me is a little bit the exercise we began with. And it's like, I don't know if it's just a thought, but even though it's obvious that everything is coming and going and I cannot be what is coming and going, it's like I cannot swallow this.

This is easy, actually easier than you may think, because you don't have to believe it. You don't even have to be convinced by it, you see. You don't have to. It doesn't matter what your mental position is about it. So allow it to be like it will push this button that, 'Do you really know everything is coming? Can I really say?' Forget it. Don't know. That's fine. It's more like even though there are no thoughts basically doing satsang mostly, and throughout the day it happened gradually that still there are less thoughts coming and then they just suddenly start. Sometimes when they're even like doing satsang, no thoughts, and there are just sensations seen, seen. It's like it...

The position is about it, so allow it to be like it will push this button that, "Do you really know everything is coming? Can I really say forget it, don't know?" That's fine. It's more like even though there are no thoughts, basically doing satsang mostly, yeah, and throughout the day it happened gradually that still there are less thoughts coming. And then they just suddenly start sometimes when they're even like doing satsang. No thoughts, and there are just sensations seen. It's like it feels like it's not resolved. It's like, yeah, this is probably the most true I can say: that even no thoughts are here, I can see these sensations only appearing in front of me, but it's like I don't get it. But not on a mental level that I don't get it on a mental level, but it's like...

Okay, where else can you not get it? Once again, please, where else could you not get it?

Yeah, it's just a thought. Yeah, yeah, you can just laugh at these thoughts. I usually do. I usually do sometimes. Yeah, what does anything mean? Hmm, it's like it doesn't mean anything. But I must say, like, when there are thoughts, I kind of like, "Okay, no thoughts. Okay, empty, empty, empty. Space, space, space." Thoughts coming, okay, saying, "Oh, this is not true, this is not true. Oh, space, space, space. I can relax." This is kind of happening here. What does that mean?

I can be this direct with you because I feel like you had good insight now; we can speak directly. So the mind will propose that there are times: open, open, empty, empty. Of course, without this commentary. And the mind may propose an idea of oscillation: not done, not fully settled, not enough. All of this the mind doesn't know.

It's like when there are thoughts here, it feels like sometimes the work has to be done to be emptiness, to see clearly that they are unreal.

Yes, but the work cannot be thought about, isn't it? Like this mental dilemma is very common, you know, in satsang: that does it take effort to come to the effortless place? And yes, at times it feels like it is effort. And the guidance is clear right from Bhagavan Ji's that as long as it feels like effort to remain empty, make the effort. But if you're going to think about making the effort or not making the effort, and whether you're being the doer about it or not the doer about it, and how much you worship to pick up and all of this thing, then that is just adding to the mental stuff. So either we do or we forget about it, but don't think about it.

If it feels like a doing to remain empty, of course it's not a doing. Of course it is effortless to not pick up. Most of you, I have told you enough examples about the conveyor belt and even the sushi, you see, where to not pick up is effortless. But yes, at times it feels like it is effort to just stand like this or sit like this, and during those times, make the effort. But if you're going to add the concept of effort and effortlessness onto the conveyor belt also and you start picking up those, you see, then that is not helping. You with me in this? It can be a bit subtle because the mind is proposing to you that if you were truly free, then you would not need to make that effort, you see. But who's the protagonist of that story? Same guy.

Is it even important to be in this emptiness? Because I don't know, I don't know I am.

It's fine. The absence of notions is the conceptual emptiness that I'm talking about. That's all I'm saying. Because the notions are not representing anything well, so why would you hang around with that which is not well done? To put very simply, if you can have better friends, why have terrible friends? As I said, if the uninterpreted is a higher truth, why step down into interpretation? Don't get caught up in any conceptual version of emptiness and any conceptual version of anything. If there is an emptiness that you understand, throw it away. And especially if you have a plan to be in it, throw it away. Just throw everything of you, but you cannot throw. We live with that.

Sometimes what happens is like it can become an idea: "I have to be in the emptiness" or "It's okay not to be in the emptiness." Throw both those positions. The one that is the aspect of your being that is having trouble with this, don't worry about that aspect of your being. What about the rest of you? How is that doing?

The aspect like the identity, it's not here right now. And if it is, I know it's not real.

Yeah, yeah, very good. So that aspect which can have like a conclusion about anything, just leave that aside. And what about the rest of you?

I'm happy.

That's it. Can it be that simple? My driver, you know, he has this unique problem. If he gets late at night, then he has to stay back here because on the way home there's an empty playground where it's full of dogs at night and nobody can pass. Yeah, they're just ferocious. So, how can you be happy? Don't go to that playground.

But it seems the playground comes to me. It's not that I choose it; it comes to me. And then, or sometimes yeah, you hear the word, then it gets messy.

It can't really come to you, but you hear the wolf. "I have to deal with these dogs, man." No, you don't. I'm suggesting a great escapism. No father has ever told their kids, "Just you hear the dog, you run." I'm just messing around a bit. But it's not...

Sometimes then there happens like a plan of letting go. "Okay, I'm going to just don't serve this of thoughts any tea, just let them pass and go." And this also somehow gets me involved in this.

Yes, just forget it. I wanted to say forgetful, but I will say: are you really forgetting about it? Are you just saying no conclusion, nothing? There's one playground where all the dogs are barking; you focus on the rest of your view. Are you careful of the spiritual dog? It has a very holy sounding bark, but it bites really badly. You remember last time I was saying that don't try to understand that which you would not bother explaining to your school? Yes, I remember. Even now your mind could be going, "But this is not my problem actually. I don't know who you're talking about. I don't have these problems."

Yeah, sometimes it can. These are just all the problems there are. So if there is a problem, it has to be this one. There is no other problem. You have to know something to suffer. If you don't know anything, you're just happy.

Thank you. Thank you. Right and easy.

I feel like calling you to Bangalore.

I would very much like to come, yes.

I think thank you so much. And Zoom, of course, has done a good job and you're maturing beautifully. But whenever things open up, it will be nice to come to Bangalore. But thank you, yes. Thank you. Very good. Okay, Sadhaji is still here. Does she want to sing? What is to be done now after the singing? Thank you all so much for being here today. Love you all.