Open and Empty… the Antidote to All of the Mental Tactics.. all of the Mind’s Ways – 30th April 2021

Kept his name, thank you, thank you. Oh, I didn't send it to everyone. Okay, before we go to Niranjan, one last question: "Is the entire paradigm of spirituality also a ground and a position?" Every paradigm is, especially spirituality, you see, because at times in spirituality we speak in ultimates, and then if it is taken mentally, then those ultimates can seem like ultimate positions. And they can seem like we have to hold on to these kind of positions, and then that becomes the crutch for the spiritual ego wanting to be right, wanting to be true, wanting to be validated. And then these spiritual pointers, which are meant to clean up everything, can also become the hiding ground for the ego itself. So the pointer is meant to rid you of all positions and paradigms, you see, but sometimes we can hold on to the pointer itself as an ultimate paradigm and that can become a very strong spiritual ego.

Okay, we'll come to Niranjan for a moment and then back to Christie has a question. Hello, hello, my dear. Namaste.

Namaste, namaste. How have you been?

Good, good, good. Yeah, how are things? They must be full, full on.

Yeah, it's full on 24/7.

Yes. Thank you, thank you on behalf of everyone for helping during this time. Doctors have been a huge blessing, huge blessing. Very good.

Thank you, Father. Thank you so much. Although we are seeing a bit less number of patients, I mean as compared to a few days back, that's good. Deaths are also reducing, so looks like at least in the area where I work...

Yes, yes, that's very good to hear. Yes, I heard this also, that in some parts of the country the numbers are starting to flatten out if not fall. But you can never say, nothing actually. Yeah, these things happen, that's what I'm always saying.

True, true. Because the recent research says that we may see a third wave around July, August or somewhere and it could be worse than this, but who knows. All my blessings to you and everyone at your workplace, at your hospital, and everyone, everyone who's suffering from this. And you want to understand?

No, I don't have, I mean I don't have any question or nothing. I just, because it was a quite a few days, so I just wanted to connect with you in this way, that's all.

I hope you are taking care of your body also a little bit. Eating on time, sleeping a little bit at least?

Yes, yes, Father, actually. But it's pretty nice, I mean I cannot say nice, but it's very spiritual to witness, you know, death from a very close distance. Because in last few days I have seen a few people die in front of me. So when you are there in the last moments, it's something else to experience and how life, you know, leaves the body and there are final flickers, or at least it appears to be so.

May He give you the strength to continue the good work that all of you are doing, and may you provide some solace and some light to those who are suffering from this and their families as well. Because it's been very difficult for the doctors, of course, dealing with so many cases and so many families and trying to, you know, keep everyone sane and calm has been very difficult during this time.

Yeah, and especially when there is all of a sudden there is load of patients, then those few days are very hectic because you battle with limited supplies of... few days are challenging a bit.

Yes, very good. I'm glad you came up today and you're here for a bit at least and you know, because you need to take it.

Yes, teachings have been a great help in this dance, very controlled, because otherwise maybe I don't know, but perhaps it would be difficult to, you know, to keep balance.

Yes, yes. We lost him. Okay, we'll see if he comes back. So the question in the chat from Christie was how to combine love and detachment. You see, actually, love and attachment have no real relationship, you see. Attachment is actually very different from love. Love is very open, love is very free, love is very spacious. It is need, it is desire, it is attachment which is the, we won't say opposite, but at least the contrary of love. So as long as you are loving, then there is full detachment. If you are wanting, if you are desiring, then that is attachment, that is desire, you see.

You are right in a way that mostly in the world what we call love, you see, is often mixed with a lot of attachment. There's a lot of grasping, a lot of clinging. But the sages have told us that where there is grasping, where there is clinging, there is bound to be suffering. So true love is absent of want. It is just loving for the sake of loving, not with an outcome, not with a reciprocation in mind. It is actually the absence of fear, because fear is the true opposite of love, not really true, true kind of. So it is the desire to not lose something which is attachment, and that is no longer love then, then it is fear. Okay, and if you want to ask something more specifically, we can dive in deeper into that.

Okay, lots of hands up. Let's go to Irina first. Oh, Father, hello! Namaste. Can you hear me? Yes, yes. What are you doing there? You come here, jump back. Immediately like this. And there we are, see. And this is how much is knitting like this. Oh, I missed you so much. I'm so happy to see you like this, Father. And I'm happy to be honest to see you more like how I was seeing you, but it's fine, it's fine. I grew up so stoned, so now like this is still in my heart and it's just like a quiet little, yeah, shining star I would say like that. I'm with my mom now, I came finally here and I don't know... well, she is overwhelmed, she's so happy. She's saying like, "It will take me a few days to just comprehend that you're here."

Ah, sweet, very, very sweet. And very happy that the time and the experiential is very strange, Father. I'm so... it's like everything is the same but it's not the same. And the friends also, and now I will meet them and you know, just, it's easier much. I feel like more easier, but it was very challenging since I came, Father. I was really, really overwhelmed and this lower back was... I could not walk, Father. I was laughing with myself because I was crawling like a baby. Oh really? My neighbor used to... she helped me with some medicines and everything. Then I was saying, "Okay, Father, you really made this like babies now, look at me, I'm crawling." But chiropractors can't do self-chiropracting. It was not possible because I called the ambulance and everything, but it happened very fast and it lasted a very short time. But I'm good now, it's much better. I can walk at least, but it was really overwhelming.

How's the Sangha? Are there everyone there behind the camera? They are keeping the right social distance and just the ones in the building because what happens is that sometimes I feel... I don't tell them ever, but I'm saying this for the first time probably, I feel that so sweetly they've left their homes and families to be in Bangalore and I've not met them for two weeks now. So double masking and social distancing. Yes, yes, that's so cute. I suppose they're very happy also to me. I miss you so much and I miss so much really, really. Just keep me in your heart when I come back. Oh yes, yes. I just want to tell you I'm good, I'm okay and good, just visiting my like this with my mom and family and I feel good, I feel very happy.

I'm very happy to hear that, my dear. I love you so much. All my love, all my blessings, and to mom as well. Mom is overwhelmed. Very good. All my love too, Father. Just thank you, thank you, thank you.

Okay, we have a request from Sangeeta to speak in Hindi for a bit. Yes, yes, my dear, you can come and be comfortable.

Pranam, Father. [Hindi speech] Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you so much. [Hindi speech] Thank you. Thank you so much.

Okay, so just to recap, I want to be able to translate the whole thing of course, but just to recap a little bit. Sometimes what happens is that in Indian spirituality, like when I started getting into spirituality here also, I was often given this instruction that I must become or stay as the witness or become the witness, like remain as the witness. So what then I would attempt to do is try to make the wrong one who I considered myself to be, try to bring that one into a witnessing position. So then what would happen is that I would look at, for example, sight and try to remain as the one who is perceiving all of this visual perception. But that was unnatural because in the instruction a lot gets lost in translation. The point is not to stay or to remain, but to discover and to intuit that actually I am the witnessing itself in my reality.

What I would attempt to do is try to make the wrong one, who I considered myself to be, try to bring that one into a witnessing position. So then what would happen is that I would look at, for example, sight and try to remain as the one who is perceiving all of this visual perception. But that was unnatural because in the instruction, a lot gets lost in translation. So the point is not to stay or to remain, but to discover and to intuit that actually I am the witnessing itself. In my reality, I am not that which is coming and going, not that which is moving; I am that ultimate witnessing principle itself. It does not come and go with the birth and death of the entire universe, you see. All of this comes and goes.

And I was quoting the great sage Ashtavakra, who said, 'You are the boundless ocean in which the arcs of the universe, they come and go.' Beautiful, very potent line which I quote very often. So what is that telling us about us? This entire manifest realm comes and goes, and millions and millions of these universes have come and gone for that ultimate reality which we are, you see. So the point is not to try and become that or to try and remain that; the point is to discover that that is what our ultimate nature is, you see.

Otherwise, what could happen—and it happens to many spiritual seekers—is this idea that I, as the body-mind, have to now remain as the witness, you see. No, the witness is witnessing even the play of this body-mind as part of this whole manifest universe, you see. So when we are looking at the manifest universe as something that comes and goes and therefore ultimately not here, you must not forget to include the body, the mind, and everything that comes along with that, including these emotions and things. Otherwise, what can happen—and it was happening in her case—is that she was feeling like, 'I should not feel grief because I should remain as the witness,' you see. That is not it. Even the grief can be allowed to come. The peace can be allowed to come. Love can be allowed to come. Anger can be allowed to come. Everything can be allowed to come.

But as long as we are not taking a slice of the manifest, you see, a slice of the manifest universe and saying that 'this is me and the rest is not me,' you see. Either you take the whole thing as you, or you take no thing as you. So those are the two main spiritual paths. We do neti-neti to come to a recognition of that pure witnessing awareness principle, and we recognize that the distinction between the manifest and the unmanifest fades that way. Or we include everything, including space, including time, everything as ourself. And like I keep saying, don't forget to include the elephant in the room, which is the witnessing, the awareness, you see. And once you include that and everything, you will see that all distinctions vanish even then, you see.

So whether we include, include, include, or neti-neti, exclude, exclude, exclude, you come to the same recognition, you see. So that's why both of these are the two ways where you come to the same if you go fully. But if you go a little bit here, then back here, then back a little bit there... so just fully, fully if you go and we stay with your insight, you will come to the same recognition where there are no distinctions at the end of the day, when nothing truly can be said but can be recognized in the knowing of the heart. Okay, yes, we have Jada, and he was going to call us again.

Hello. My so dear to see you again. Actually, without this one, I'm not able to hear you, but let's see. I just wanted to meet with you. I don't know, it's okay. In so much comfortable place actually, because I also shared it with you that I'm in a journey. And actually, I have come to visit Prophet Abraham's Mecca in the middle part of Turkey. I just somehow feel him so much in my heart and I feel to come here. And of course, it's just too amazing, just everything. And yeah, but sudden lockdown has come and I have lost my identity card and some information has related in government and I cannot move from here. And no money, nowhere to go. I really don't know. It's just this.

So you have some friends or how do you take care of day to day?

Yeah, nothing here. But I don't know, actually I started this journey without having no idea also, like no money, but it just unfolds it amazingly. And I don't know, it was like for me to really put it into a test, you know, like true surrender. And I hear also the Prophet Abraham is kind of like his very being is like complete surrender. And it just unfolds like this. And for me, it's like a really to put it into a test and it's just unfold like this. And actually, I'm just so much at ease and I don't know, it's just so beautiful to experience this.

But yeah, very good, very good. So sometimes we run out of moves now, as Guruji says, and that is the best surrender. And I cannot imagine a more auspicious place to run out of moves.

And you know, Father, when you say run out of move, it's as if it has to, you know, I'm run out of move, but it's just not like this at all. It's like I am run out of moves and I don't know, just I don't know. And you know, actually I could move yesterday and before I come here also, it was just so much in my heart that I want to meet with Father there and I'm so happy to meet with you here also. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

And I also do something at a practical level in the Sangha, then get in touch and we'll see whether... because in India we have all these... you have your phone at least with you apparently, that's where you can join.

Just so funny, before I come here also my phone has broken, so I had to get along. Just so funny. And yeah, at least applications on the phone now where a lot of the payment and things... like I have not used cash for a long time and on the phone itself payments are possible. I don't know how it is there, but if you can help with any of that, let us know and we're there, we're there for you.

I don't know. And actually I listen your conversation before me and I don't know, I just feel to share something about this too, especially during this journey. You know, Father, for a couple of years I don't speak so much and I don't connect with being so much. And after this journey starts almost one week ago, I don't know, I just connect with beings a lot and it feels just so natural, incredibly natural. It's not an effort at all and it doesn't feel as socializing too. And at some point I thought that, you know, we are also in silence retreat and but it doesn't feel like I move, you know, just everything just becomes so like this. And as you said, all the feeling comes but they are not problem at all, not at all. And I even say that I enjoy my anger too, you know, just everything is just here and I kind of enjoy everything. Like even expressing anger, even there is a shout, like everything is just so on.

And you know, when you speak about this witnessing, I don't even like try to find this witness. I don't know, just everything is just so one, like all my moves. And maybe yesterday I thought that I was in a very beautiful place, now it's closed I cannot show you, and I was just sit there, you know, just nothing. And I thought that maybe I should pray, you know, maybe I do, I need to do something. And I try but it doesn't feel natural, like it didn't come from my heart. But when it comes, it just comes. So I don't know, it's just I live so much in nature, naturally, naturally. Okay. And yeah, like this.

Yeah, I'm so happy to. Would you like to see around a little bit?

Yes, yes of course you will. So I'm in mosque now for just to speak with you I have come here. But and also I don't know so much about Abraham, but this place... maybe before I show I can... but you can hear me, you can hear me well right, Father?

I can hear you back.

Okay, here you go. Yes. So in Quran also the story has been being told is that Abraham is a prophet, he is the father of Moses and Jesus Christ and also the Holy Prophet Muhammad. And he is confronting the king... like I don't know how to translate but he's a prophet, you know, just he confronts everyone. So the king decided to put him into fire to bed and then in Quran Allah says that 'Fire, please be kind to... not kind but I cannot translate... please be kind to the Abraham.' And then the fire didn't burn Abraham. Abraham continued to live and it says that the fire turned into this lake and get it.

I see. A very beautiful and peaceful. Very beautiful, very beautiful. Very nice, very nice.

Yeah, it's just so beautiful to be here, Father. Yes, yes right. And you know when I come here I just pray a lot for the Sangha and all those who suffer from COVID too, and may Abraham's grace also be upon all of her needs. And I feel all of you just so much here with me and wherever I go actually you are.

Very good. Thank you, my child. Thank you so much. Okay. Okay, I see a new name, Shubh. Shubh can come.

Hello. Hello, my dear. Name is Guruji. I want to take my position. This body is watched and even thought is watched, and I see the watcher also. Yes, yes. That doesn't last for long. Okay, okay. Even when I speak I can see who is speaking. The heart is beating and I can observe some sensation, but still inside you can see nothing. Hmm, yes, yes. And I want... I mean when I'm saying I want, I have limitation to say that. Yeah, but inside still nothing. I don't want to say further anything, but I need your blessings.

Yes, yes. So all my blessings are with you and I'll give you some tips also and see if we can just have a bit of a conversation together about this. And this is for everyone because this is what we are here for, to come to the true discovery of the selves, no? So firstly, I just want you to relax a bit. Like right now it looks like you're performing some surgery or something. It looks very... that this thing just settle down, just relax. It's not difficult. You don't have to focus your attention. Just in a very open and relaxed way, just try to follow what I'm saying and tell me from there with the innocence of a child what you notice.

So you said something very nice. You said, 'I noticed that the heart is beating,' you see. 'I noticed the sensation,' all of these sensations. So we can expand that to every perception, every sensation that you perceive, isn't it? Now very effortlessly we are able to say that 'I can see, I can see,' and yet this 'I' itself cannot be seen. At least perceptually you cannot see it, isn't it? The 'I' which sees, that itself cannot be perceived as a perception. If you're with me, just tell me yes, otherwise you can tell me if there's a doubt about that.

Guru, when I see, I can see that... I mean when I am talking with you, I can able to see... I mean from if I take from the second bird position and first position, yeah, I can see that the second bird is talking. I mean second bird is seeing the talk if I am referring the first bird, yes, as in daily life doing stuff, yeah.

Yes, so you can witness even the second bird, you see. But you cannot perceive it as sight, sound, taste, touch, or smell, isn't it?

Yes, yes.

So that which is witnessing even the operation of this consciousness, of this being, which itself can be intuited as a presence, as a beingness, you see—that awareness, you see, is you. You cannot know that conceptually or physically in any worldly way through any senses, you see. And yet this self-knowledge of you yourself as this awareness is innate to you, you see. It is just that the ignorance of taking yourself to be the first bird, and even ultimately the second bird, you see, is kept aside. And then you see that you are that which witnesses the coming and going even of consciousness, of beingness, you see. So how do we come to that? Like if I ask you a simple question: Are you aware now? What is your answer?

It's just like when I pay attention, yeah, I can see there is nothing, but the still talk is going on.

Okay, okay. First you have to follow my first instruction, which is to relax a bit. I know it can sound strange because you're trying...

The second bird, you see, is kept aside, and then you see that you are that which witnesses the coming and going even of consciousness, of beingness, you see. So how do we come to that? Like if I ask you a simple question: Are you aware now? What is your answer?

Uh, it's just like when I pay attention, yeah, I can see there is nothing but the still talk is going on. Okay.

Okay, so first you have to follow my first instruction, which is to relax a bit. I know it can sound strange because you're trying to do something; you're trying to get it, you're trying to bring your attention to it. But attention cannot get to it. None of your effort can bring that to you, you see. So just let go of your effort for a moment. Just relax. How are you sitting and talking to your friends? Just become like that. Just unwind. It's not a difficult task. If attention could go to the ultimate Self, you would say, 'Okay, attention, go there, go there, go there,' and there the Self is. But you know what that would mean? That would mean that your Self is also objective if your attention could go to it, you see. Because that would mean that everything that attention brings, it comes and goes. So if the Self was also a product of your attention, it would also come and go. So then that could not be it, you see. And that is why I am saying that no forcing, no effort, nothing. Just in a great simplicity, you will discover this what I am talking about. In a great openness, you will discover this what I am talking about, you see.

So, that which is aware of your being, when you were referring to the second bird, what were you really referring to? Can we make sure we are on the same page first?

When I say something within me is observing that conversation, okay, so that is what I am referring as.

Very, very good. Very good. And that is noticing or observing all sensations, all perceptions, isn't it?

Yes, yes. Very good. Now, even that, you see, it is something within you, you see, but not within you like spatially within. No, this is it. We cannot say there is an object which is observing the second bird. This is a thin layer, or we can say something like sense logically, or like by language I can say that there is again a layer of sense which is observing this second bird also.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Very good. So that layer of intelligence or layer of just pure awareness—it's not like we're just using words to communicate—so that, can you find it through applying your attention? Is it something that your attention is bringing to you?

It doesn't require attention, but yeah, if I engage in daily activity, then that time I need to put attention. Otherwise, if I'm talking right now with you, then it exists there. But when I do my regular work, like office work, I get lost there because it needs more manual effort and that time it goes away.

Okay, so are you certain of this, that it goes away?

I mean, it doesn't go away, but I am not able to be at that position when I am engaged with my daily routine work.

Okay, and otherwise, are you able to be in that position?

When I am alone sitting idle, then I can see that, and I feel—I mean, I can't say 'I'—but yeah, that time I observe that.

Okay, so now suppose that this was a conversation you were having at work. Your mouth is moving, words are coming out. This mouth is moving, words are coming out. All of them are being perceived by the second bird, isn't it? Now try to lose that third bird. Lose it. Don't try to find it; try to lose it. Don't be the witnessing principle. Don't be the awareness that is aware even of the second bird. Don't be that. Try to do that. Can you do it?

Then there is nothing. This void.

Yes, but who is aware even of nothing? There is nothing, it's just... even who is aware, that is also... there is nothing.

Yes, but how does this information come to you? If even you are not there, then how do you know it is true? Like that you are not imagining it, you see. You are not imagining it and you're not making it up conceptually. So that primal witnessing must still be there to even observe whether there is something or there is nothing.

So inside I see nothing even.

Yeah, the 'I' that sees nothing or something, you see, how is that known that it is you? How do we call it 'I'? If it's complicated, I can rephrase. Okay, so let me let me try to make it simpler. You reported that at a particular point there is nothing, no? And you are not making it up; you are not just conceptually saying something. You are saying that, 'I know really at that point there is nothing,' you see. But to know that there is nothing, it is not just conceptual knowledge, you see. You're saying it is your intuitive experience in a way, without using that word, you see. But you have to be there to even have that intuitive insight that there's a point at which there is even nothing. Are you with me?

Yeah, but Father, at that point I must start... if I am observing that nothing, how do I explain that? I don't have other way to say, saying that I can see there is nothing.

Yes, yes, yes. But the 'I' itself, are you counting that in the nothing? The 'I' that sees that there is nothing, are you counting that in the nothing itself?

Yes.

You see, so then when the something comes and goes, does the 'I' change its quality and become a something?

No, that time is still again... it is still vacant. I mean, still there is nothing.

Yes, but this is because it is perceptually nothing that you cannot find an attribute or a quality of it. By that standard, it is nothing, you see. But actually, it is not nothing; it is no-thing. It is not a thing because it doesn't have a quality or a shape or a size. And there are times like in deep sleep where there is no phenomena, you see, and then in the waking state where this whole universe of phenomena shows up. But you, that which is absent of any quality, any shape, any size, remains that unchanging no-thing, isn't it? Now, this we cannot see through any sort of perception, through any sort of attention, and we cannot think our way to this. Like, we cannot convince our way into this because it will become another belief, you see. You just have to come to it like you're coming now, as direct intuitive insight that you cannot see it and yet it is known that it is not a thing. I am not a thing, you see. Because in the absence of all things also, I witness the absence of all things. Otherwise, how would I report that there is a time where there is an absence of all things? I have to be there to say no.

Like if somebody—I use this example sometimes, this metaphor—if you told me that the wall behind me changes color, sometimes it is fully black, sometimes it's fully white, sometimes it's other colors, then I would say, 'Okay, did you witness that?' You say, 'No, no, when it becomes black, I am not there.' So then I would say, 'But how do you know then it becomes black?' See, you have to be there as the non-phenomenal witnessing to be able to confirm that there is a time where all phenomena goes away. Otherwise, your report would just be conceptual, which I can tell it is not in this conversation.

There is still some time, I mean, mind is coming when there is little distraction.

Yes, and that's fine because all the perceptions of the world can come, you see. All the perceptions of the world can come and your attention can go to them also. Because this discovery of yourself as this no-thing, is it dependent on your attention? No, isn't it? So attention can go wherever it wants, you see. Attention can go to thought, it can go to body sensation, it can go to what we call the world, it can go to any of that. But the fact is that no matter how far attention seems to go, it is always tied like with a leash to the Self, no? It is always reporting back to that no-thing itself, you see. So don't worry about what is the content which attention is bringing to you; just be concerned with what is the content being brought to. Is that itself possible to perceive with attention? So simply put, what is on the other end of attention? On one end is all the perception, sensation, all the qualities and attributes. But what is on the other end?

There is nothing.

Yes, but you are there, no? It is coming to you, isn't it?

Yes, yes.

So therefore you are that attributeless, quality-less reality which cannot be encompassed in anything or any phenomena, you see. Why I'm always saying this is because when we hear, and sometimes all the others who are hearing this may feel like, 'Oh, I'm nothing there, therefore I must be like a void or something like that,' you see. But no, you're beyond even somethingness and nothingness, you see, because all of this can come and go but you remain. So one tip I want to give you is that if you're visualizing yourself as some dark empty space which you're thinking is aware or something, it is not like that. That is another visual. So just ask yourself very simply: What is aware even of that dark empty place, you see, or dark empty visual? So no visualization. I mean, you can use every visualization to come to this. So if the mind is creating a duality for you, which is to paint you yourself as an empty dark room type thing and the world as a bright manifest thing, then that representation is not true because you have to ask yourself: What is aware even of that dark space? Even that is part of the world manifestation, you see. Many of you will get surprised to hear that, but even if you perceive what we think is pure emptiness, it is still perceived. It is still part of the manifest, not the unmanifest. Have I gone too far?

No, good, good.

Whatever you are able to perceive, you see, when you ask yourself what is aware even of that, you will see that we cannot give it any quality. And actually, we cannot even give it the quality of nothingness or somethingness because even this, like, it's not an absence or a presence; it is beyond absence and presence, you see. So both the absence, which is like the full void of dark and empty, and the presence, which is the full manifest universe of light and sound and time and space, you are aware of that, you see, as the third bird.

Thank you. Very good, very, very good. I'm happy, I'm happy. I want a blessing from someone around me who is totally engaged in worldly life and they think that living and dying is just a phenomena and they even don't think to observe things beyond that. I have very near my near about who doesn't know this thing. I pray for them, at least they have some thought that living and dying is not just phenomena. We need to think something out of that. So I need your blessing so that they can also look into this, and they are very near to me.

Yes, yes. All my blessings that by Guruji's grace may this one have the urge to come to the discovery of their true Self and be free from this cycle of suffering and make-believe events. So a full, full blessing is for that. Okay, good. Yeah, I see there's a Hindi satsang committee being formed in the chat. Okay, lots of hands. So those who have come up already can put their hands down so it makes it easier for me. Okay, Edgard has had his hand up for quite a while and then... Good morning.

Hello, good morning. Good morning over here. Very good, very good. Happy to see you. Yes, I feel like there is something that is some factor which forces me kind of, like not in a bad way but rather in the good one, forcing me to pay attention to my own, their own functioning of the mind and then like reduce the thoughts in my mind at the moment of speaking right now, you know? Because like, looking back let's say ten minutes ago, I can say that my reality of the experience at that moment was like some thought being the central factor in my experience and, you know, following the thought. But I didn't realize that at the moment and right now, like, I can see it was just a thought. So in this way I can say that whenever I'm in satsang, like, I realized how much I really suffered, you know? Because at the moment, maybe yesterday, I was going through, I don't know, like working and I didn't feel like...

Minutes ago, I can say that my reality of the experience at the moment, at that moment, was like some thought being the central factor in my experience and, you know, following the thought. But I didn't realize that at the moment, and right now, like, I can see it was just a thought. So in this way, I can say that whenever I'm in satsang, like, I realized how much I really suffered, you know? Because at the moment, maybe yesterday, I didn't—I was going through, I don't know, like working, and I didn't feel like I was suffering. But comparing it to the experience of this moment, like the bliss or of talking to you and, you know, the whole love of the sangha, then comparing that to my previous experiences, then I indeed was suffering. So I need to keep that factor like constant in my life, but I really don't know what it is. Maybe it is just grace. And maybe speaking about this, I kind of think I'm hopeless on this subject, on this thing, because if it is an external factor... I lost you, my dear. Is it my connection or is it yours?

Sometimes, like, I am interested in other things, in other things. Okay, okay, I'm sorry.

Um, yeah, I was saying that even my interest for spirituality so-called is coming and going. Like, I sometimes feel interested in other things, like playing or watching TV or other things. I don't know. Like, if I trust your words, then it would mean that there is a me who, you know, can do things. But I already, like, I try to trust your words as much as I can, but sometimes, like, I find myself suffering and that means that I am not following, right? I don't know. I feel like I lost sometimes, then hope comes and I feel up again. So this whole thing, like, as you said—no, I mean, you said that all distinctions dissolving in your realization or something like that, and I really resonate with what you say. But I want it, like, to be my experience right now. But I don't know, like, I feel that I cannot make it happen. Yeah, just when I'm in satsang, like, I feel I'm there, just using the words, you know? Yeah, I'm there, I'm there. So, but when I'm out of that, I can see right now that when I'm out of that, I don't feel the same way.

So that is okay. Good, good, good. I always enjoy hearing your words. Like I tell you every time you come, it's very honest and very courageous. So it's very good. Sometimes I jokingly tell everyone, because I often hear this report, that 'Father, before we came to satsang I had such a big problem, and now I'm sitting in front of you and I'm looking at it and saying it is nothing.' You see? So that's not fair, because when I go back, the problem will still come back and you're not helping me with that problem. So what to do? It is maybe Guruji's blessing, you know? So I don't have to deal with too many problems that way; he's just given me this blessing in this way. So it seems to work in this way.

Now, one thing I want to tell you, because you have the ears for it, is that the one that has that linear story is not you. And if you try to balance out or fix or try to keep that one in a particular sort of state of being or something like that, you will just struggle more and more and more, you see? So I know it can sound like too much sometimes, because it can feel like, 'But I have a very valid narrative based on my observation and my memories, very clearly telling me this is what happens really in my case.' But you are fully aware that if I was to ask you, 'Hey, who's that me, by the way?' you would say, 'No, no, but that is not my reality.' You have had that intuition. You've had that intuitive insight that it is not your reality, isn't it?

So when we try to make this discovery—which you are coming to that intuitive recognition of—a part of your linear narrative as somebody who's running a linear life from birth to death, it is going to become impossible and it's going to cause a lot of spiritual suffering, you see? Because these ideas of 'Maybe then I'm not good enough' or 'Can we really do this? Do I really have any control over doing any of this?' you see, is a mixing of a couple of identities, you know? The individual doer identity as well as the one who is pure consciousness itself, you see? It's being mixed up somewhere over there and trying to get on the same page or ride the same horse, which cannot happen.

So the gift is that, or my invitation in satsang is that, at least during the time where you're in satsang, just come to this insight about what you are and reject all false narratives which concern that which you are not, you see? And then to keep bringing you back to satsang is my problem. You leave that to me. Because the fear comes, and I've heard of this often, that 'If I get too involved in my stories, then I may not come back to satsang and I don't want to spend another lifetime in that delusion.' This kind of thing. And that is not there. The longing is true in your heart and that is why you're here, you see? And for you to keep coming back is for me to do. You don't worry about that, you see? And sometimes you're watching TV, you're playing games—all of that is fine. It's not getting in the way of anything, you see? So, but when you're in satsang, then follow what I'm saying. Reject the false narrative of the false self. Reject the ignorance of taking yourself to be that which you're not. And the rest is my problem to do. Yes? Is this a good deal?

Oh, okay. I feel like I don't have any—no, no, no. I feel like I don't have anything to do. Like, yeah, you know, like you say this is a good deal, and like I agree to do something, you agree to do something, but I feel like your deal is like leaving me with nothing to do.

Yes, it's true, because there's really nothing for you to do. Or that which doesn't exist, obviously, can never do anything. It is only the idea that it can do something—the one that doesn't exist—which causes all this suffering and misery, you know? So now I'm making it helpless and fully surrendered by saying, 'Okay, for you there is nothing to do,' you see? And when I say it is my problem, I'm referring to our Self, our being as one being, as consciousness, which will keep bringing itself back to this reality of what it is, you see? So you, which could take itself to be a sort of limited body-mind entity which could have some agency or volition or doership, you see? I want to divest it of all of its entitlements to doership. And then, empty of all of that, you see, you will see how consciousness is just so beautifully unraveling all of this. Okay? Very good, very good. So welcome, so welcome.

Okay, um, I see Lakwinda again. I see that her video is on. You want to try again, my dear? Are you trying to say something? We can't hear you. We see your video a bit. Okay, I just want to tell you firstly that I saw the video where you had written to Guruji, and Guruji has given you his full, full blessings. And as his son, I am in service to you. Yes. Yeah. Yes, please. Right here, please. Yes. If there's one thing I can do for you right now, what is that you would want?

I want—I don't know what is happening. I don't want to live. Please call me, call me Guruji. I have not slept for one month. I don't—

Yes, yes, yes. I can see. I can, yes. So I want to tell you that all my love, all my blessings are with you right now.

Now I don't want to spend life like this. I don't—

Yes. What is physically disturbing you at the moment? Is there something in your environment which is bothering you?

Yes, yes, yes. I can't tell you right now.

Okay, don't worry, don't worry. Did you tell Pankaj? Pankaj has been in touch with you, no? Every day he sends you a WhatsApp message. And you are also writing to him, or no?

Guru, I don't know, but I can tell you one thing. There—these are negative, negative, negative, negative things. Negative things. They want to end the life of this body.

Who is they? This is your family, or who are they?

Yes, my brother, my brother. Nice. So, beauty, I am going through intense pain. I can't tell you. If this body wants to go, it should be at your feet, my Lord. And you are my Father.

So can I just ask you one more thing? A few years back, you had written this letter to Guruji, and I saw that you had said that your family is threatening you because you wanted to come to satsang. And I saw that. So is it the same issue now? Is it the same situation, or—

No, no, no. It's very, very, very, very—I can't tell you, I can't tell you.

Okay, do one thing. Why don't you send your address details to Pankaj? And others are also in touch with you, so you can send it to either of them and we will try to organize some help for you. At least somebody can visit you.

Please, my Lord, please, please, please, please. I will request some—

You're in the north, no? You are in Punjab? Where are you?

Yes, yes, yes. Punjab.

Okay, so you please send them your address and we'll have somebody—

Part of my last week life for you, for you, my Lord, for you, for you.

I'm completely with you, completely with you. And you have Guruji's blessing also.

Guruji, I am thirsty, I am hungry. I still find it—I see, I see—so badly. You, my Lord.

Yes. You please send me, through Pankaj, or rather send me the address and we will try to get somebody to visit you very soon. Okay? All my love. Don't worry, Guruji is there with you and—

Don't leave me without you, my Father. I can't live without you myself now, my Father, my Father, my Father, my Father. I want to—please, my Lord, please help me, please.

I'm always, always with you, always with you. And at the physical level also, we'll try to get somebody to visit you and see what is going on there. Yes, please. Hmm. Okay, I'm there with you. I'm there. If I get some of your sangha sisters to give you a call, will you be able to speak to them and explain to them more in detail about what's happening really? So I think Radha has already tried to get in touch with you. Will you call her? That will do. We'll definitely send someone to you, try and send someone to your house.

But is taking my body here and there, saves my life from so many days. But Guruji, you are my last hope, my Father. My last hope, my last hope, my Lord.

My full, full heart prayer is that may all your afflictions be healed. My full, full prayer from the heart. And may you discover your true reality and whatever—even things you can't imagine.

My Lord, you can't imagine that how this body is surviving, Guruji.

Yes. And yeah, I'm very, very sorry to hear that and my heart pains. Your feet. What is the exact city you're in?

Guruji, I am in Punjab.

Okay, okay. I will try to get you some help immediately as soon as satsang is over. Let me—please, my Lord, please, please, please. Yes. So, yes. See, everybody in the chat is also saying that they are with you and they want to help you. I'm going to also talk to some friends in the north and see how we can send somebody to your house. Will you send Pankaj your address immediately? You have his number. Pankaj, are you here?

Now what we will do is we will get to Lakwinda's address and I will speak to some people in the north who can maybe make somebody visit her house and see what the exact situation is over there and try and get her the help that she needs. So you send him your address. Yes, right now. You comfortable doing that, my dear? Lakwinda, you are comfortable doing that, my dear? You're comfortable sending your address to him? Yes. So I will ask immediately after satsang from Pankaj and let's see if we can get somebody to visit you, get an idea. Till then, keep Guruji in your heart and don't worry. We're with you, with you, for you. Thank you, thank you, Pankaj, my dear. Okay, you can come, you can see. Did you meet again? Yeah, I think by mistake, sir.

I don't know, just like the whole since I woke up I was like, 'Raise your hand, raise your hand, raise your hand.' The only thought I had today: raise your hand. And as soon as I rose it, or raised it, I don't know, and like that my whole chest just lit on fire and just like... so maybe some those strong mind attacks.

Keep Guruji in your heart and don't worry. We're with you, with you, for you. Thank you. Thank you, Pankaj. Media, okay, you can come. You can see. Did you meet again?

Yeah, I think by mistake, sir. I don't know, just like the whole since I woke up, I was like, 'Raise your hand, raise your hand, raise your hand.' The only thought I had today: raise your hand. And as soon as I raised it, I don't know, and like that, my whole chest just lit on fire. And just like so, maybe some those strong mind attacks, they somehow, I don't know, just like that, somehow subsided. And it came with again like so much gratitude, but oh my god, why? Why me? But in a sense like, wow, thank you so much. And yes, but the funny thing is, and it's not like I'm just like complaining about that, it's more like an exposing. I feel whatever I share those things is more like standing up for myself, but not as a person, but as a presence, like against the Maya. Or I don't know, sometimes it just feels like this. All tears are coming. Yay. And yes, and right now there is quite a lot of fear, which actually surprises me a lot because I would never even have a thought that I would be afraid to, I don't know, disappear as a person or as I don't know, because I had all those experiences where there wasn't anything. And now there's this fear arising, and it's more like sometimes it's a fear that all of this will come back and all those attacks, and that I won't have enough presence to hold it in me. I don't know, does it make any sense what I'm saying? Because I don't understand myself very well. And just the silly thought of disappearing—not a disappearing, but that all of this will disappear. Can you imagine? I can't believe it. And it's just like, this is stupid.

You mean disappear permanently? Because it disappears every night, man.

Well, I have a lot of very vivid dreams, so it doesn't. But like, yeah, so the fear is that if it all disappears, what will happen?

What is the message in the fear?

I don't know, Father. It's not like, you know, even when this whatever, it's like this is so hard for me to say because mind says some things, right? But the first thing that comes somewhere here, let's say pain, if it comes, it comes here. The message comes after. Fear comes here; the messages come after. So I feel like I can't believe those thoughts.

How do you know it is about the disappearing?

I don't know. It's just like I'm just like guessing because it suggests those things, you know? It's just suggestions. Like I can't choose anything, I can't create anything. You know the feeling? 'Oh, I'm scared because of this, there is fear because of that.' But none of it essentially is true. That's how I see it.

Yes, it's very good actually. In fact, our whole, or the whole message of the mind is to come and tell you, 'This is how you should interpret this,' you see? All of its messaging is to try and convince us that this is how things are and this is how it should be interpreted. This is the meaning that this situation or this set of perceptions implies. And then what can happen is because it's like that story, you know, I mentioned it in Satsang. A child was scared of monsters in the cupboard. So his father, who's like a psychologist or psychotherapist, was trying to speak to this child and saying, 'No, no, there are no monsters in the cupboard. Don't be scared, it's fine.' And the child said, 'But if there are no monsters in the cupboard, then why is there fear?' You see? And that is the kind of interpretive trap the mind puts us in, saying that there must be a cause behind everything, you see? And it is usually the cause that we determine, that this cause causes this kind of perception or sensation to be experienced, and therefore then we start chasing or trying to find an antidote to the cause, you see?

But that child's statement about 'If there is no monster in the cupboard, then why am I feeling fear?' is a very powerful sort of statement because even as a child, after we get into this mode of operating, we start attributing this cause-and-effect relationship to things, and that can put us in this kind of cage. So then what happens is that we feel like, 'Okay, my fear is about not wanting to disappear.' But when we looked, we saw that actually you could have said it's about anything, and we could have convinced ourselves that that's what it is, you see? So what is the cause for anything? The cause for anything is consciousness, you see? What is the one cause to everything? That is consciousness. And who experiences that event or that set of sensations and perception? Consciousness. And who experiences these so-called effects of that event is also just consciousness, you see?

Now the thing is, the minute we insert the 'me' with an individual narrative in that play, that's when it becomes almost impossible to handle. Because consciousness by itself has never had any trouble with any of the children, whatever that creation may be, whatever that sensation may be. In the spaciousness of consciousness, everything can come and go, see? Like I was saying last time, or one time before, the room does not object to whatever object can come inside it. It is when we take ourselves to be another object within that room—when the room itself takes itself to be another object within the room—then it can have preferences and say, 'No, you can't come. This is my space. I want only my friends to come. I want only good things to come,' you see? But for that to happen, we need to take that leap from taking ourselves to be the broad spaciousness, that broad spacious consciousness, to taking ourselves to be the limited object in the room.

Now as consciousness, and without—what is freedom? Freedom is not needing a reason. That is the simplest description of freedom. It is not needing an understanding or a reason, you see? So anything can come, but I don't need to find cause-and-effect relationships in things coming. I don't need to have a conceptual understanding of what is. And you know what happens? The good news is that in that freedom, it is not that any sort of understanding is lost. In fact, we find a broader understanding of everything that is there, you see? The only thing is that that understanding is inexpressible. So to the mind, it's like, 'But you're just being dumb. What did you get out of any of this?'

So that which you have experienced firsthand for yourself, your true nature, you see, for that, nothing, no fear can shake it up, you see? And it is that shakiness which makes us run to reason, like, 'What is the cause of this?' But I'm very happy that you're able to spot and say, 'I could have said anything, that there's a monkey on a tree in the next country or something which makes that fear come,' you know? So very well spotted, you see. As far as that is concerned, then the mind can succeed in its tactic of trying to get us on this wild goose chase of trying to fix the cause, instead of us just meeting whatever shows up in our full openness.

So something is coming; it can seem very big and strong, but nothing is too big or strong for you as consciousness. Things may be big or strong even for the body, you see, but nothing is too big or strong for consciousness. And when we start exploring the reason and trying to fix the reason behind it, then we have gone on the wild goose chase of the mind saying that this causes it, instead of just staying in our full openness with what is. So in your—I know that open and empty does not sound like a very glorious sort of instruction, you see? Like a glorious final instruction like, 'My child, something...' you know, usually something that you could write in a book or something, 'My master told me,' you see, something like that. But all I have is just this simple open and empty, which is just the antidote to all of the mental tactics, no? All of the mind's ways. So just with whatever is coming, just meet it in a full openness. And from there you will see, and you have seen, that nothing that shows up is too much for you or too weak for you, you see? But when we involve the one with the narrative in it, the one that has causes and effects in it, then it can become too much. Even the smallest thing can become too much.

All you have to deal with is what shows up in that very moment.

Exactly. I love this one. And you will see that even that, you don't really have to deal with; it is being dealt with, you see? The mind tries to make it such a big like existential crisis, no? Because I have this and then I have that and then I have this, and then it can make all this up-and-down sort of adventure roller coaster out of it. But even if you are on a roller coaster, if you're meeting it just moment to moment, you're just fine. You're just fine.

Yes, somehow like lately I became like very, I don't know, aware of it, like of this person. I don't know how to hold up this structure that I think I am. Like, I don't know, it's like it only happens in the moment, not like something in the memory.

So yeah, so one thing also you have to do is that everything spiritual that you know, you have to leave with me today.

Oh, take it. Thank you.

Please, just don't burden yourself with anything at all. Just moment to moment. You cannot deal with what's in the moment spiritually, you know? Because to even deal with it spiritually, you have to go to the mind. You have to go to some learned knowledge, something, you have to go to a position. So just that returning to that full innocence. No ideas, no presumed knowledge about even person versus not person. All of that, just keep it aside. It's fine.

Um, when let's say these things come up, there is like a special one. It's like taken very personal. And where is something like—but I'm speaking from the memory, okay? Just like I just wanted—it's something like, like I see the mind, or super-ego is the mind, I'm not really sure what it is, like wants to know. Like there is an answer. Of course it's a mind, because if it wants an answer, it wants to know why it is happening, why this is being experienced, like all this why, why, why, why, why? And because I sometimes I feel like you give me always the highest, you know, and never give me explanations. And I was just like, 'Oh my god, why he's not explaining this to me?' You know, there's some, I don't know, annoyance a bit like, 'Ah!' But then I see it like, 'Okay, okay, okay, okay.' But then again there is like belief that I have to understand, that I have to know what it is, and by knowing I will be able to deal with this because I will know. And this is, oh my god, even I'm hearing myself speak, this is such a, I don't know, you know.

Very good. I'm glad you said that because this is the entire game, you see? This is the entire game. We are convinced that only through conceptual understanding can we deal with what is, you see? Can we deal with what is in the manifest? Now the game is just the opposite, you see? When we don't have the need to conceptually understand, we have no trouble in dealing with anything, you see? But the human condition and the cause of all suffering is that we think that we need to be able to put it in our heads first so that then we can resolve it, you see? But once we put it in our heads, we've already distorted it so much that we can never deal with what is really, you see? Because the same situation everybody will put differently in their heads. So are we actually ever transferring anything true into our heads? Never, you see? Because everybody can have a different version of that. So there's no inherent meaning to be found over there. The inherent meaning is to be found in the meeting with it fully open, fully naked, fully empty. And yes, I see what you're saying and I see the same as about the wanting to know and understand as well. Like it's quite—so that's why interesting came up, this came up now, that like freedom—I've never, I don't feel like I've said this before—where freedom is actually just the absence of the need to know or to understand. But that's the funny thing, and it's such an egoistic thing, like what is around, you know?

The meaning is to be found in the meeting with it fully open, fully naked, fully empty. And yes, I see what you're saying, and I see the same as about the wanting to know and understand as well. Like, it's quite so. That's why it's interesting this came up now that, like, freedom—I've never, I don't feel like I've said this before—where freedom is actually just the absence of the need to know or to understand. But that's the funny thing, and it's such an egoistic thing. Like, what is around, you know, what is happening? It's fine, but I don't need to know. It's God's grace, whatever. But I'm saying this with respect, sorry, like sometimes my language, I don't know.

And when it comes like this, but it's mine, I need to fix it. You know, this need of control, of controlling my surroundings, this body. And it's such a—like, it's never been in control, and never. I just had an illusion of it. But this is still this, I don't know. I'm just speaking from the memory; maybe from now on it's going to be different, but I doubt that. So, but I see the need, just basic need to control, like control everything.

You're absolutely right that we draw a boundary, which is usually the body boundary. But because that body boundary is not good enough, usually we need the boundary of mind, so that can be other people, it can be materialistic things. So we need to keep expanding on that because the primal need within us is not to be contained in this boundary, you see. So the ego takes that need and converts it into this sort of attachment and play of expanding ourselves to adding more and more to the mind, you see. But actually, when we let go of all boundaries, when we let go of all limitations, you see, that is the only way that need is ever fulfilled. So the important thing to ask is that: where is the boundary to this me or mine? Is that inherent in the appearance itself? Is the boundary inherent, or does it require work for me to reinforce it?

It's a work, but it's such a—it's an easy work, you know? It's like I don't need to struggle for it. So it's like a habituated suffering.

You see, it's become a habitual suffering because we feel like, okay, it's work, it brings suffering, you see. But at least it's something that I can hold on to. What I'm being offered to in satsang is just what is there. What can I really hold on to? You see, what can I use as a crutch? And this guy is not offering me any explanation or any solution. Yes, what will happen if I let go? You see, why, I might just disappear then. Will he be there to take care of me if I let go and disappear?

Father, can I interrupt and say something? Like, okay, maybe it is too much to share, but like, you know when I had my really like this, let's say big experience, right? The—I did—that wasn't body. Yeah, this body that I see right now in this on the screen was not mine for some notice, for some time. But it somehow, I remember to me, for me it felt like I died, you know? Back then Diana or Atma Jyoti died that day and she no longer exists. And then I had to—I remember I was looking in the mirror and just laughing from all over that this is supposed to be me. And it was like—so I don't know why I'm sharing this, but like, because sometimes I'll go, I go back to this because like, why this identification? Even this body is not the same that was this couple of years ago. It grew old, you know? It changed, changed a lot. And I don't—and I feel like it's just here, somewhere here. Like, I don't know, I don't know. Just feel like I had to share that.

It's good. So, independent of whatever memory brings up about those events, you see, those images will come and we cannot really say anything about them. But independent of that imagery that comes, you must empty yourself of any meaning that it has.

Because I see as well, like wanting to understand, wanting to continue the story, you know? Like it was then and now this, this happened and now I'm here. But this is just—yeah, somehow it seemed that it's an illusion, yeah.

But even that, even that meaning that it was an illusion or not an illusion—nothing. Just then it's perfect. It's perfection. Yes, but just in conversation, because even that meaning is too much. But yes, just to communicate we can say like that.

But this is the trouble with spiritual experiences, no? This is the trouble because once they become a part of a narrative, and seriously part of a narrative, then they will just cause more suffering, you see. And the only way they can become part of a narrative is if they mean something. The thing is that your perception of any of it, you see, the pure perception of any of it cannot be included in the narrative. So in subtle ways we find ways in which, 'Oh, this is what it meant. I was so free, I saw that I am not the body,' you see. But then it came back and see, all of that belongs to who?

It has no—I really don't know. I don't know. It's just—

And 'I don't know' doesn't cause trouble, you see. And if we accept that we cannot know, at least in our human mind we cannot know, that cause is not knowable. It is only when we feel like 'I don't know but I have to' that we suffer. Or a melody like, yes, whatever we are perceiving, like even memory, we don't know is really memory or what. We don't know whether all of this is a memory. We don't know any of these things. But then that human need to put labels and to say, 'Okay, I got this. This is from the past, this is currently present, this is future'—all of this is also part of the human need to label and to understand. But actually, absent of all of that, absent of all of that interpretation of 'this is what it is,' what are we going to say? What are we going to do?

Does that mean we are lost then? Because this is what the fear the mind gives you. But without any of this—and this is also a good example of this—let's see, you may just disappear then. If you open and empty, you just disappear. Or for some it can be, 'Oh, I'll just be lost then.' Like Guruji also, before he had the awakening, he used to have this fear that, 'Oh, I'll become like a hunchback beggar then,' you see, like roaming the streets. So this is just the mind's way to tell you that without your conceptual reasoning and understanding, you will just be a good-for-nothing nobody. You don't want to disappear in that way, that's what it tells you, you see.

So it grasps on to things which it feels like, 'Okay, you will give meaning to this because, hey, you are spiritual now, so your spiritual experiences are definitely meaningful.' You will not say, 'Yes, I don't know. Yes, I don't know. Open and empty,' you see. So it keeps bringing those in front of you and saying, 'See, you had this and then you had this. See, we're almost there. Let's just crack this, you know? Let's just crack this together. You had this, you know, you had this, and then you don't have to—let's find out a way.' So it makes the subtext of the narrative so palpable and says, 'Yes, yes, come on, we can do this. The mind is your friend and we can do this together. You're almost there,' you see. And then it says, 'Okay, what does it make out of you?' It makes you that bunch of flesh and blood which seemed to go through that linear story and has had then the spiritual experiences belong to that one, not the other way around, you see. Not the other way around, which is how it really is. This bunch of flesh and blood belongs to spirit and not the other way around.

So what happens is that when we try—when the—when we try to make the reverse relationship, it comes with a lot of suffering. And but it also comes with that hope that, 'Hey, I had this, I can live like that forever, you know? I'm almost there.' So and then you go—it's got you both ways, no? You can't drop it because hope is there, and you can't keep it because suffering is there. So then we are fully stuck.

But what you're saying, maybe it used to apply to me like before. Nowadays it's more like something in the memory that sometimes I would play with, but it's not so much belief in that. I see that it was—if there was like, there was more presence then, or God was there. Not this, whatever, whoever speaks right now. But I don't know, something like—which like second option is what? I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. I even though sometimes I don't like to label to myself, 'Oh, this is this, this is this,' because I don't—I really do not know.

What's wrong with 'I don't know'? Absolutely nothing. Actually starting to like it quite a bit. If you love 'I don't know,' you'll be just fine, no?

But then I get quite annoyed when people—other people—they know everything so well. This is this, just like—is it spiritual or just someone from the street?

That's so true. So don't—like, 'I don't know' does not mean we make 'I don't know' into a position and then we get annoyed with everybody else who seems to know something. No, it is just 'I don't know.' Okay, do they really know? I don't know. Could they be true or could we be telling the truth? I don't know. Then we can't get annoyed. That's true. Because if I know that they say not true, that is annoying. If you become very certain of 'I don't knowing,' then that can become problematic. Just be so good about everything, including the 'I don't know.' So someone comes and says blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah—I don't know. But 'I don't know' is very spacious.

I don't know, yes, especially there's so much information floating around today, you know? And with this pandemic and all of these things and this—I don't know. This is good, I don't know. Somebody says this is good, I don't know. Then someone says, 'Okay, let go, let's do this.' I say, 'Okay,' you know? 'Okay, I follow you.' I don't mind. Not always, of course. It just comes from the heart like this. And you've seen this, you were here and many times you've seen that where somebody will say like this, like this, somebody will say like that, like that. I say, 'Okay, I'm fine, whatever.' What—whoever feels like something is coming from the heart, I'm happy to follow.

Yes, you're such an inspiration. Look, let's say—I don't know if it's the wrong word to—there is someone here like that wants to be like—not follow you, not follow, but I don't know, be like you. I don't know very much, but not in like—wait, yeah. That's what—what you point to, that is so like shines in you so much and it's just like—it's like—

That is my blessing for all of you. That the same gift that my Father gave me, same gift that he's given me, he give to all these children, all these sangha members as well.

Sometimes I think it's like—not to sound like, you know, but like for—I mean for all of us here in satsang, it's inevitable. Yeah, yeah, just it feels like it sometimes. Yeah, I think, but not—not to something—I feel that, but I don't know really, but I feel that too, of course. But not to sound like—I don't know what's the word—like, 'Oh, it's inevitable.' No, no, it's like in true reality.

Like, I actually, if you were to ask me for a preference, I prefer you saying this, that it is inevitable, rather than you saying, 'No, I'm so worthless, it's never going to happen for me. Wait, maybe next week that's going to be coming.' So I don't know.

So yeah, yeah, don't speak too soon. I don't know. It's like, yeah, sometimes it's funny, the mind. Oh, one day this and then the next day this is drama, then this is drama, and then all this—oh my God, it's just like, come on. Actually, I got like quite interesting, I think, to—like when I sit down sometimes, just—just to sit, like just feeling to sit. And of course the mind comes, not always, but—and one day that long time ago was like so annoying. I was like, 'This is it? This is this? This is all I am? This is only this little stories? This, that's it? That's all you have to offer?' And that was like so—like so annoyed and it just like vanished. Silence. I was like, 'Come on!'

These are fun experiments. These are nice. These are very good contemplations, actually. Fun experiments that we do playfully and naturally and we say, 'Okay, that's it? That's all you got? Give me something bigger.' And say, 'Okay, that's it? That's all you got? Give me something bigger.' When it runs out, I do it. Yeah, I felt victory.

All I am is only this little stories. That's it, that's all you have to offer. And that was like so, like so annoyed, and it just like vanished. Silence. I was like, 'Come on, these are fun experiments, these are nice, these are very good contemplations actually.' Fun experiments that we do playfully and naturally, and we say, 'Okay, that's it, that's all you got? Give me something bigger.' And say, 'Okay, that's it, that's all you got? Give me something bigger.' When it runs out, I do it. Yeah, I felt victorious that day.

So it certainly sold you that story then, basically.

Oh no, yes. That's a very good feeling, so funny. But wait, next week I might cry. So that's not because I have this thing that I can't trust this is good. And this, I mean good like um, more life. And when it comes very bad, heavier or bad, it's like I can't trust this bad as well somehow. Like, I don't know.

Leave all your spiritual knowledge here today. Like all the stuff that you didn't know before you became spiritual, that should not bother you anymore. Like what, sorry?

Begin the distinction between some energetic lightness and heaviness and all of that. We didn't know this before we came into spirituality, did we?

Well, but I still don't know what feels good or bad, huh?

Yeah, I'm sorry. Much more simple. Like life was much more simple. 'I feel bad today, I had a fight with my boyfriend, I'm gonna eat a tub of ice cream.' You know, finish. It's not so complicated about, 'Oh, I'm taking myself to be me and I'm taking him to be another' and all this spiritual explanation. Father, actually I don't have this like, I don't know why, like no. Like what you said, like I don't have this a lot of spiritual... that's good then. I don't know, I feel like it's been created but then it was soon seen that it's quite a nonsense. Yeah, and this, I have this feeling like um, there's no search here. It hadn't been for quite a while, so it's not searching for... it's just like, I would say I shouldn't know that, but I know. But it's more like dealing with these habits, let's say. I don't know, like all of us I guess, not just unique to me. I don't know. And no crying. Oh my god, I'm feeling quite victorious again for this crying because this is my break with yourself. Oh god, okay. Thank you, Father. Thank you.

Very good. Okay, many hands. Sylvia has been up for quite some time. Hello, hello my dear. I can't see you. When I speak, it'll come up again. Yes, here. Are you mute again? One second. Thank you.

It's nice, it's nice to see you again. And um, my mind has prepared a lot of things but I don't want to listen. I simply want to speak with you and to enjoy to a little bit of India and to be with my brothers and sisters in India. Thank you. I don't know how to express but in my heart, yes. I just want to say that in this satsang I didn't... I couldn't listen to you very much. I don't know why. A little bit or more ego come and egoism and something like this and energy, and I feel like to expose this. I don't know what to do with this.

Can also um, after a bit of a break, it can also happen like that. After a bit of a break where you come back into the satsang environment and um, you're not used to my vocabulary a bit and my way of expression and you know, the mind can use that opportunity to try and distract you or attack you and attack me, attack everyone. You know, it can use that as a full attack platform. So, but that defrosting can happen over the next few weeks. If by Guruji's grace satsangs continue again, then some of that will start to settle down a bit. It's very natural, don't worry so much about that. It's fine, that's fine.

Thank you. Um, if I may say something that I can say that I can see that in this one there are things that want to express, but I saw in even in satsang and in the last few days of like ego, it's blocking me. Blocking me to speak. And also I could hear Guruji said about this and I don't know, I want to expose this because I feel in my heart it's more than I can speak and I just... yeah.

Both is okay. Okay, don't worry. Either way is okay if something feels to express. I remember actually many years ago, I met Guruji in 2009 and then what happened is that I sent him an email from my Gmail to his Gmail because the sangha was quite small those days, so those things were possible those days. So then what happened is one day I logged on to my Gmail and we used to have this thing called G-chat, I don't know if you remember this, Google Chat. And who do I see on the Google Chat is Guruji. And I couldn't believe it, you know, because I had just met him. So for me he was just like some mythical being. I was just like, 'Wow, how can a guru be on chat?' So then I saw him on the G-chat and then I took a chance, you know, I just took a chance and said 'Namaste, Pranam' something, or I told him. And then he actually came on the thing, or he got somebody to type it out, no? And I was like, I couldn't believe it that I'm really chatting with him. I couldn't believe it. And then I told him um, that you know, words cannot explain, because I was chickening out a bit because he was on chat with me and then I didn't know what to say actually. So I just said, 'Words cannot express' and things. So he said, 'No, they have their place. It's okay.' And it became a beautiful conversation because um, so then after that I've never said to him that words can't express. So what is it... it just reminded me of that. Not that you said something wrong or something, I'm just... it just reminded me so much of that beautiful interaction I had with Guruji. And but really, like if words come, then words are okay. If nothing is coming, then that's fine too. It's completely, completely fine either way. There's something which you feel like in your heart you want to say to me or the sangha and you just feel like, 'No, no, let me not say it because something is stopping you there,' then you don't have to worry with that. Like you can trust me to read through the words and get to the essence of what you're trying to point to. That is so cool. Basically I'm saying just be completely free. Don't worry, don't worry about it.

Okay. So um, just one little... when some shape is taken in me from... I see that is for my creation somehow. I can see that I'm not this. Like, I don't know how to explain in words but...

Do you feel like some participation when it seems to happen like that? That's what you mean by shape? Some sort of item?

Some sort, yes. Or the order is just sometimes... it's energy in the body that it's unpleasant. Sometimes are very ugly images that I never seen in my life, but I had like a horror movie like this, or very ugly fits. So in that moment, I remember your teaching and I stay present, but something... it's like a doubt in that, that really I cannot do anything about this because it's awful and I don't know, maybe I'm an awful person like this.

Yes, yes. Actually I remember that in this so-called spiritual journey that I had, there was a time where my mind was also playing this game. So anytime I would close my eyes to sit and meditate, it would show these ugly images, you know, very drastic and thing. And I tried everything. I would try chanting, I would try anything. And this was before I met Guruji, so I did not have the support, so I had to just feel like I had to figure it out myself. Then one day I just did this experiment. I used to love doing these experiments, you know. So one day I just did this experiment saying, 'Okay, what if I play the game the other way? What if I say to the mind: Is this it? Bring something bigger, bring something worse. Let's see what is the worst you can give to him.' You know, I played that game. And the mind played along for a bit, so I don't want to give you an impression that immediately you say that and it all vanishes. So it tried giving these very horrific images and things to show and like very fearful thing, but something just held steady, you know. Something here just held steady and said, 'Okay, what else? Is that it?' And within a few minutes it ran out, you know. It's so limited when you really inquire, when you really test the mind, you will see that it doesn't have momentum more than a few minutes actually, you see? But it tries to grab those few moments, few minutes, and grab you with them and say, 'Ah, see, this is because you're a terrible person. This is because you're not really going to get this, or you've done some really bad thing. Freedom is not for you.' Then it tries to whisper these messages in your ear, you know. And then we feel like, 'Oh, there is some perceptual evidence and the message is coming, so it must be true' like that. Don't fall for that. Just don't fall for that. I am with you. Guruji's grace is with you. Just see it through, see it through. If the mind comes and tries to scare you, just like Kathmandu was saying before this, say to it, 'Okay, is that it? Is that all you have?' And you see that it can't really shake you in reality, you see? When we try to fix it, it basically... you know, basically it seems to get more energy from that, you see? If we try to push it away, 'No, no, this can't be,' then it feels like we are playing its game, you see? When we say, 'Okay, let me trust your limits a bit. How far can you go?' You see, it doesn't have much more than that. You see, it runs out fairly quickly. So yeah, yes. Let everything come, let everything go. Nothing means anything about your reality, you see? Nothing means anything about your reality. You are the Self itself. At your core, in your true nature, you are the Self. Everything else is a fleeting idea, everything else is a fleeting notion. So don't ever worry about your worthiness for this because you are the Self itself. Who will be worthy of the Self? Only the Self itself, which is what you are. You can never be anything but that. And this is for all of you, because many times you get this fear about, 'Am I going to get this? Am I worthy enough?' Your worthiness is your substratum itself. You're made up of this worthiness, which is the Self itself. So who would the Self be playing this game for? Who would this Self be playing this Leela with? Just itself. So you are that which is fully, fully worthy.

Yes, because you are so loving and I am inspired to put another thing at your feet. Also these images appear when I talk with someone and in my heart it's just not like the Self, but it's natural, it's what we are. And when I talk, a lot of ugly images and judgments appear. In the last months like this almost calmed down, but I beat myself a lot about this thing and I want to put it at your feet.

Yes, just don't have any boundary to yourself. Don't have any boundary to yourself. You're never talking to another, and that is what will set you up for the light to shine even more brightly, you see? That is what will set you up for the light to shine even more brightly. Because if the light becomes scared of being shaken up a bit because the wind comes, you see, then it can't shine so brightly. When you are talking, and especially if you are talking about spiritual things, then what will happen is that when we meet the mind in the world, then it can seem like a lot of this sort of energetic thing. All this, we don't have to bother with much of that, but it can seem to play out. But if we start judging and saying, 'But this is not mine, this comes from outside,' you see, then they become very difficult for that light to shine brighter because the light is there in the light of that oneness, you see? In the light of the one being, which is what your true discovery is. So the minute we start to make distinctions and say, 'Because from another' or I start judging them from within, so even that can be a boundary, right? So we can become either very shameful about this or we can become very proud about this. To be empty about either that and or this is what I'm really pointing to. So like right now, I don't feel really in my heart that I'm talking to another. It's easy. This boy's mouth is moving, that girl's...

The one being, which is what your true discovery is. So the minute we start to make distinctions and say, because from another, or I start judging them from within, so even that can be a boundary, right? So we can become either very shameful about this disease or we can become very proud about this. To be empty about either that and or this is what I'm really pointing to. So like right now, I don't feel really in my heart that I'm talking to another. It's easy; this boy's mouth is moving, that girl's mouth is moving. I'm watching both of them play, you see? I don't feel like I am either situated here or there.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I have few hands. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak. So, welcome. I just thought to report, um, also since the last time we spoke and I asked this question about where I'm supposed to be and what is the right place and yes, about the calling. Um, so then somehow magically I, um, I got a visa actually to come to India, which was quite exceptional. And I felt this calling again to come.

And where do you come to India? Where will you come?

Yes, yes. And each time I go, I feel there is, it's a blessing to be there. Um, so there's a, there's this prayer just to spend this time just for the highest and not to get distracted because it feels very precious and expensive to be in this. Yeah, yes. But, um, I also, I also had to share, um, in my family there was someone who passed away was very close to me and, um, so there was a big, um, decision which I had to make if I actually fly or if I, if I go to Kazakhstan where I was born, because I haven't been there for a long time to support my family. So, so when I said that I'm actually flying to India, I was, um, I couldn't explain it to myself because everything inside was saying, 'But you should be going actually to support your family.' And there is so much love. So everybody is now labeling me as being spiritual egoistic, and I couldn't find the words because also my family background is Russian Orthodoxy. It's not really possible to explain this kind of thing. So I just, um, I know I maybe I, I have to face this risk of being labeled as an, as an egoistic being. And there is so much love and I actually wanted to go as well, but I just wanted to put it at your feet as well and just say that whenever the right time is, then I'm supposed to go and I can be of the best use, the presence, then I will go and that my presence somehow can benefit all the beings connected to me. So just to say, Father, I don't know why, I don't understand anything, but I just, um, I just put it at your feet and that this journey somehow will benefit not only me but everybody connected to me in a way.

And it is bound to. It is bound to. Um, a lot of stories are coming from my meeting with Guruji today, so another story just to add to that. Um, after I met Guruji the first time and sat on the hot seat and things, for a few months I didn't feel to do anything. And I had children, I had business, I had all of these things, but I just felt to sit in my room, you know, just sitting. I don't even remember whether I used to be in front of a computer or not, I can't really recall. But, but what happened is the family started getting really worried and saying, 'What's happening? You have responsibilities, you cannot do this.' So I wrote to Guruji and said, 'I'm just so happy, but everyone around me feels like I'm depressed or something and, and they're starting to get worried because I haven't really been working. All the interest from work seems to have gone. I still watch some TV, I'm watching some cricket or something, but I'm not working at all.' I wrote all this to him.

And so, um, he replied saying that, um, don't worry, everything that is happening, unfolding for you, is, is going to bring great grace into your life. But all those who are in your family and are touched by you will also be blessed by this. So this unfolding, this yearning which is in your heart, as it is unfolding, is bound to give, is bound to bring grace and great blessings to everyone, everyone around you. And but the only thing is, don't expect them to admit that ever. Because if you did come to admit that, then you're in trouble. So just have that reassurance in your heart, but don't expect your family members to say, 'Ah, yes, finally we feel your holy presence.' It doesn't happen. And that's very good actually, because it helps us not to develop a spiritual ego. That's what Baba Ram Dass said, no? He said, 'Every time you think you are enlightened, spend a weekend with your family.' And I keep telling them here also that I go here and my house is just one door away, you know? So a part of the house actually we use is satsang. So I go back to the house and I'm, I'll walk in, I'll be tired from four hours of satsang or something, then my daughter will say, 'Just get that plate from the kitchen, no? Please, you're standing anyway.' And so for a moment you're just like, 'Okay, now this is a new environment.' Because here somebody's giving me water, somebody over there is this, 'Get this, get that.' So, um, so that it's helpful. It's very helpful. It doesn't allow our spiritual ego to get away with us, you know? So it's good. Trust that everything, including the resistance from your family, is grace. It is providing you the ammunition for your inquiry.

Thank you, because I see this, um, it's not the first time it's happening. Also when I was in Sahaja, when I went to Rishikesh each time, which always had to be made, and there was a fear that I might not see my family now because he passed away. There was at some point there was this guilt coming: 'I have been always going to India instead of going there.' So it was quite a heavy feeling. But I also just trust that He knows what's the best for all of us and that I'm not doing it out of my personal desire or ego, and that somehow it can benefit not only hearing you today.

I want to say something else to you, which is that don't be hard on yourself at all. Like hearing you today, I get a bit of a feeling like you're very, like, hard on yourself. Like you always want to do the right thing, you're always concerned about family and all of this. Very good thing, but what happens is that a lot of it can make so much struggle in the spiritual journey, you see? Just in your heart it says, 'Go to Thiru,' just go to it. It's okay now. You don't have to evaluate good, bad, right, wrong. Just follow the, follow your heart, which is not the emotional heart; this is the intuitive center that I'm talking about. And I can tell that in your intuitive heart it's clear. The longing is very palpable, it's very clear. So then don't try to justify to yourself, don't try to say, you know, try to have any reasoning for any of you. Just that's it. That's what grace is moving and that's what's happening with them. Too much and try to rationalize and justify, and a lot of energy will go in that, which is not new.

Yes, I'm doing it actually every day, like I'm doing research.

And as I say this to you as an older brother who's walked this path, who's been there with family and responsibilities and business and all of that, I know how the mind plays with all of these things and how much we can beat ourselves about it. And then what happens is that if somebody from the family says even one thing like, 'You're always doing satsang,' you see what happens is not that they have said something so bad, it is because our own self-doubt and we've with great difficulty rationalized to ourselves and come to some sort of, you know, equilibrium, and somebody comes and says something, it just shakes us up because we just like fighting our own self-doubt rather than them. So I can notice a bit of that in you as you, as you speak, and I want you to be free from that. Don't worry, it's grace is guiding you beautifully. And don't try to justify or rationalize to yourself. To family, of course you can, if words come you can speak them, but the bigger trouble is to try and justify to ourselves.

Thank you. Thank you. It's a great relief. Thank you.

Okay, I'm starting to fade a bit. Let's go to Madelina and Jada. Madelina will energize me with her report. Okay.

Oh look, I feel like sharing that this week in the Orthodox church, which I'm, I've been baptized in, uh, is the Light, it's the Week of Light. I'm not sure if it's the right translation, but it's Week of Light.

Okay, yeah.

And we are celebrating Easter on Sunday.

I see, yeah.

When I raised my hand, I, I just wanted to share it. Yeah, is this grace, I guess, for the point of us and bring joy and happiness in all our hearts?

May this week be the week of the highest, highest light. The highest light of self-discovery, of self-recognition. All, all that is the most auspicious for everyone. All my blessings, all my life. So Easter is now for you, this, this coming Sunday?

Yes. Outside I was feeling a bit guilty because I'm not spending the days before it still like a normal Romanian or a normal member of the family. Everybody's cooking and doing different stuff and I, I just try to be in satsang as much as possible and went for a holiday with my children. So yes, it sounds very good. It is, please. I'm going to take this opportunity to live at your feet and in the past month, I think probably because it coincides with the 40 days, this is Christ's fasting period and always awakening retreat, certain emotions and personality aspects came up quite heavily. Um, it's been a pleasure to have my sisters close to me and yeah, uh, but I'm going to, to live with you here and also the critical and the one who complains a lot about everything that's happening. Have you left the door here before? No, no. But like you said, I'm hoping to leave a big chunk now. Good, good, good. And also my doubts, yeah, my mind. Thank you for you and thank you to all my brothers and sisters.

Ah, thank you. Thank you too, and hope you have a wonderful Easter celebration. Thank you. Thank you. It's wonderful to be back together. Yes, thank you. Oh my God, thank you.

May you please, Father, for me to see you?

Say again? Okay, can you hear me well?

Yes, yes. Okay. I don't know, I just wanted to come because I really feel to speak with you. The first time it was like kind of introduction and it was not like, you know, I, I don't know, I, I feel to open actually. I don't know what to speak about even though I have a, I don't know, Father, Father, I, I, I don't know. I, I, I feel like recently like as I said, just so I feel like I'm just so much myself, you know? I experience life like, like a child, you know? But not like that I'm child, but everything is just so as it is. And I don't know how to explain it, but I know that, you know, this just everything is just as it is. And of course it's such a joy, but no enjoyer, I can say that, yes. And I don't know what to say more because yeah, but actually I want to share something because I want to say something before that it's—

Please say. I was just saying that it is very good that if we are able to share and we can leave it just before it means something. Like, like, um, like there's just a childlike playfulness happening here, you see? And, um, and because quickly the mind will want to become part of the conversation and say, 'Oh, so this means I'm freer now,' or some, some idea like that. It's best to leave it like unfinished in, in some sort of conclusive way, because the mind will soon play with that and get you involved with that kind of mindset if, if you allow it to make it mean something. This is so very good that if you can stop and say, 'Yeah, I don't know what to say. I just wanted to share that I'm just living like a child right now and I can't express it.' But I feel in my heart that, you know, this is very good. But the minute it starts to become conclusive, 'Oh, this is what it is now,' you see, then that can become problematic.

Did I say something like this? I don't remember.

That's very good. That's what I'm saying. It's very good that you haven't said anything like that. Because then nothing were to be cleaned up. It is just an expression of just a simple report about how life seems.

I feel in my heart that you know this is very good, but the minute it starts to become conclusive—'Oh, this is what it is now,' you see—then that can become problematic. Did I say something like this? I don't remember. That's very good; that's what I'm saying. It's very good that you haven't said anything like that, okay, because I don't remember if I said it or not. No, no, I'm saying it's very good because then nothing had to be cleaned up. It is just an expression of just a simple report about how life seems to be, instead of drawing any meaning out of it and saying, 'Oh, this is what this means.' Because the minute we have determined conceptually what something means, then we start dealing with that fake meaning instead of living.

Father, life in your presence especially—and you are always here—anyway, it just feels also, you know, the words become so dry, so it doesn't work. You cannot explain at all, you know? Just, yeah, the energy doesn't flow also; it doesn't come up. So yeah, I've seen that. Just like in India, they have done something on the monument there also; they have written there, left their impressions with their initials and things. This is what this is: the need to find immortality, you know? Like, this is just an expression of an inherent need to find something beyond the body-mind and to find some inherent immortality. And they don't realize that carving things onto monuments and things will not get them there because those initials are not really theirs. So it's funny to spot these kind of expressions all over the world, and you see that this is how the human need to express themselves in their timeless nature gets expressed in a day-to-day vision, but it doesn't work like that. Sorry, I'm digressing, but I could see when you were speaking, I could see the monument behind you and I could see somebody had carved their initials on that. I don't know, yeah, I okay, I can speak like this. Yeah, before I speak with you, it feels like there is something to say, but then I am in your presence also, they just lose their importance. Actually, they are not important at all, but I don't know, it's like they are not a problem at all.

Yes. And yeah, they are already not a problem at all. But I don't know, it is like a habit to bring something to you. Not a habit, but maybe, I don't know. It's okay, it's a tree. But what's important is to recognize that the only place where we've ever faced a problem is never in the manifest world, you see? Yes, one aspect of the manifold, which is the mind, which is the intellect.

Father, thank you so much for saying that because that's what I wanted to bring. Like, you know, Father, when I come here...

So, sorry, just to complete that point is that, you see, so what happens when we fall for that mind trick? It will convince you that its version of what is problematic is the problem, and then we start working on resolving that instead of meeting life open and empty. And what happens is that to live in a mental way is actually not to live at all, you see? Because we're missing all of life, all of this beautiful play which God has directed, you see, for itself. You're missing all of that in some sort of conceptual thing. It's like buying the ticket for the best, best musical show but just staring at your phone all the time or something like that. It is, it's like that. So that's what happens when we try to, when we believe that my life will be resolved once I've understood it and I can draw conclusions about it and then I can make an action plan to resolve it, you see? Then that is the whole mind fallacy. When we see that none of that game is needed and life in itself—in life itself—there is no such actual thing as a problem, you see? It is all just a play, all the movement of life itself. Then we start to meet life, and we start to meet life in all of its contrasts, in all of its colors and shades.

How have you said life is always... so that's why I asked again and again. Sorry.

No, no, it's fine so far.

Um, yeah, according to what you said also, you know, when I come here, like all the experiences, like how you said, and sometimes it's just so heavenly and sometimes not so heavenly, but so godly in a way, always. And yeah, like yesterday some something happens and actually as an experience I was just so untouched. Like, I'm really just so embarrassed and I can say that I even enjoy that. Not unpleasant things, you know, that I'm enjoying, but I'm enjoying because I know that they are just experiencing and they are just God-sent. It's so powerfully known. But I recognize some misunderstanding or misconception within me that is just so important to bring this in to you and into Sangha. It's like there was a misunderstanding that, like, I need to be graceful, you know? Like all the experience that I have has to be just so heavenly, and some of them actually in my life they are not like this, and just so many bits. But I truly enjoy them too because it's like that's especially showing them and just puts me there. But this idea that all has to be just so divine and I don't know, just so graceful, this one is just bothering me. And because of this, voice interpretation comes like, 'This shouldn't happen,' and 'Is there something that I need to see or something?' And I know that there is nothing that I need to see. I'm sure it's just, I don't know, no explanation for that, just God-sent, and there is no need to even, you know, interpret them. But this idea that everything has to be just so graceful, just all light and they are all saved.

Okay, may I say something? Which is that the idea and its opposite both have to be dropped.

Which one? Like any... like if you say, 'I need to see something' or 'I don't need to see something,' both can be dropped?

Yes. But I don't have already... like, I don't need to see something. I just confront the other one, you know? Like, I don't say, I don't take the position that I don't need to see. I don't save it exactly. No, yeah, just don't buy into any position either way, and then you continue to be in this innocence of a child.

How, Father? I want to just bring something to you. Like, there was a time in my past, like kind of one year, and it was, I don't know, it was such a time. I don't want to mention it and there is no need actually, but I don't know, I just wanted to offer this to you and it's already been offered. It's related with sexuality too, actually, and I don't want to give any detail and there is no need to give any detail. But somehow yesterday or, I don't know, during my time here, it's just so much reminded to me and I thought that I was passed over those times, but I see that there is still, you know, something just because it was a very dark time. And I don't know, I just feel to open this up and bring this to you even though it's been already offered. But I don't know, I just wanted to bring everything about this sexuality and everything about womanhood and everything which I, I don't know, I feel like a child but some people see me as a woman and I don't like it, but what to do? I just somehow...

Yeah, it's fine. You know, in cultures—and I've spoken about this in the past—where I noticed that culturally sex and therefore sexuality is either taken to be very special or it is taken to be very shameful. But actually, it is neither, you see? It is just an aspect of human existence which, when we make a sinful or shameful position about it, then it can override our life. When we make a special position about it, then it can override our life. Neither of those are needed. If we just treat it with the naturalness which it deserves, like every other aspect of our life, then there's no trouble with that. So it's fine. Just be open and empty with all of this and let it play out naturally. Don't take any—in fact, my answer for everything now is: don't take any position about anything.

Yeah, Father, it's not what I see or take sexuality yet, but it's like I was always just so open about this, not actually about everything. And I don't know, in this life, in this one's life, I was always just so open about everything. It was always like this and that's why somehow I was always been in a position like I was not rebellious in action, but I was always like confronting people all the time, but not like action, you know? I was just, everything was just so natural to me and my position became like a confronting to me and like I was just so bothered by people and just so much on me. And yeah, I carry that burden so much and I don't know, I still, yeah, I still sometimes find myself in that position. Maybe that puts me in that position, I don't know, but it continues like this.

Yeah, don't worry. All of this is an aspect of way of life and in your openness, in your emptiness, all of this will get... it will get cleared up, it will get cleaned up. Sorry, I can really notice this one is starting to fade out. Okay, my love? So just enjoy your visit, don't think about anything, okay? Thank you so much. She's been waiting for a while as well. Thank you, my dear.

And poor Father, I know you're tired and the body is also now fading, so I'm happy to just give my love to you and see you and speak to you and then just speak to you another day if that's okay.

It's okay. You tell me, what did you want to report or ask?

Just wanted to report, Father, that a lot of fear has been witnessed related to the body and bodily conditions and not a nice, not a nice feeling, Father. It feels quite contracted and I just wanted to leave it at your feet, Father, you know, and just be free from whatever happens. I know Mooji Baba, Guruji says all the time that, you know, Nisargadatta Maharaj had said that 'I stay in my awareness and just leave everything else to unfold the way it has to.' So I just want your blessings, Father, so that you know I can be in that space, Father, and just surrender it all to you.

So I'll make it easier for you now. It's a good point to end Satsang because we sort of started also at this point. So when we hear that, then sometimes what happens is we feel like, 'I have to do that,' you see? But actually, he's not saying something about something that he's doing—that 'I just remain as I am and my worldly play of existence plays out.' He's just talking about a recognition which is had, you see? So there's a big difference between the two. The minute we take it on as something that I have to do or I have to attain, then that becomes a huge, sort of project to take on. The minute we see that this is how it actually is, you see, it is much more effortless. So what he's reporting is from a recognition that he's had, not from a state that he's accomplished or something like that. You see, that difference is very, very important. And that same recognition, why is he sharing with us? Because it is true for us already, you see? It is not not true for any of us in our reality. That is what is only happening in spite of the play that consciousness may be playing of identification and disidentification. Your reality is exactly what Maharaj said his reality was. So they couldn't recognize. Don't try to be, you see, a certain way or in a particular state or something like that. It's not a way of life that he's talking about; he's just reporting on how it actually is.

That recognition, Father, has happened and it's so fleeting that it comes and then it goes, and there is such a dichotomy in that recognition and then this...

Okay, good. So a recognition is always fleeting if it's part of a narrative, you see? So only in a narrative is there time. In the recognition, there is no time. So if it is coming and going, then there is an effort to insert it in a narrative. Now, without the narrative, is the recognition not here now? It is only the recognition. So the impulse to make it meaningful—and the idea of human meaningful is to be able to...

And there is such a dichotomy in that recognition. And then this is okay, good. So a recognition is always fleeting if it's part of a narrative, you see. So only in a narrative is there time. In the recognition, there is no time. So if it is coming and going, then there is an effort to insert it in a narrative. Now, without the narrative, is the recognition not here now? It is only the recognition. So the impulse to make it meaningful—and the idea of human meaningful is to be able to insert it in a narrative—is what makes it come and go, you see.

So you're having the recognition right now, you see. You don't even have to confirm it. It's just true for all of us. But the minute you try to own it, it's fleeting, you see. And own it how? By making it ours, by making it in our narrative, in my story. Yes, and of course it will be fleeting because the recognition is so not so small that it can be contained in the narrative. It can't be contained in time. So now, don't try to contain anything in any story, in any narrative of the 'me' and see what is there. There is only this awareness, Father. Yes, simple witnessing of your being. Utter simplicity, you know, utter simplicity. The complication only comes when we try to grasp at it.

Missed you, Father. Missed seeing you so much. So much love. And just need your blessings, Father, to dissolve fully, fully. Let there be no more moment without this, Father.

You just repeat my previous answer to yourself. Yeah, it's fine. It's here now. It's not an admonishment. Okay, I'm losing my English also now, but I'm just saying that even the subtle ways the mind will try to say, 'Okay, now the real project, the only project left, is to dissolve fully, fully.' But in that 'fully,' no, you can spend a lifetime trying to dissolve fully. You are it. Yes, you are it. Until you try to make it in your story—I mean, until you try to insert it in your story—you are free. And that is the beauty of this, that we can never make use of it because we are it now. We finally... I'll read through everyone's chat during the video.

Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Thank you all so much. You stayed back so long. You...