May This Truth Be Available to Everyone - 16th September 2022

Yeah, it's more like it's resting. It feels like, um, yeah, it feels like I'm being aware that I am aware.

Yeah. So now, as your attention is outside on your computer or phone, have you lost awareness?

No.

Oh. Where can you send it in your room so that you could lose this awareness of awareness, as you say?

Yeah, it can never be lost. And I feel that now when you say it like this, yes. But somehow, somehow it is a belief in this, uh, when the attention goes out, yes, I feel like almost like I'm not being aware that I am aware anymore.

I'll tell you a secret. Okay? Now the attention can only go out. There is no 'in' for attention to go to. Wherever attention may go, we can call that 'out.' So in the absence of perception, the absence of sensation, you're still—your attention is still on a dark empty space, isn't it? So you may say that, 'I find it easier when my attention is on my being.' Let me say that actually what you're then saying is that it's in the core of my being, or that which feels like the essence of my being. The source of all this light is my presence itself, and attention feels more restful that way. But actually, it's always only traversing your being. It can never go outside of you. That it is only possible when you create a notional boundary around yourself, which is that you take these body sensations to be your boundary. Yeah? So now I want to ask you, as your attention is in front of you, you see, are they only perceptions or do you recognize naturally something else as well?

Can you say that again?

Yes. Do you recognize only perceptions? Yeah? As you are just letting your attention go free, are there only perceptions here, or is there something beyond perception as well?

Yeah, there is a sense of something beyond perception.

And can that be perceived?

It can't be perceived, but I feel like it can be recognized somehow.

Yes, this is the thing. The unperceivable recognition, which is only possible to do with the Self. Yeah? You do not recognize it any other way, you see? So that is how insight, intuitive insight about your own Self, which is also called Atma Gyan, is different from worldly knowledge or perceptual knowledge. Yes? You see this? You see, now is it independent of where your attention is, or is it dependent on where your attention is now?

But it seems dependent on one thing. It seems dependent.

'Seems' is the operative word there, you see? What does it seem dependent on?

It seems dependent on your identification. So if you were to identify, then it seems like that Atma Gyan goes into the background somehow, although it really doesn't. But Consciousness has given itself the ability for it to seem as if it does. Yeah? There are subtle points, and I'm happy to go through it throughout satsang today, but this is very important. So what can happen is that although in reality nothing changes, ignorance or misidentification or taking yourself to be the ego, you see, is when you identify with the notion, with the thought. So just with your attention or pure perception, it is not possible to be ignorant or mental or mindy or egotistical. So this is a master key, because then you are allowed to live your life just like all the sages are living their lives without having to put any sort of constraints on their attention.

Yeah, I feel like at the moment there has just been more beliefs in the thoughts, actually.

Yeah. Yes. Now one more tip I will give you is that have you heard the metaphor of the thief that I've been sharing? So, like we just saw, nothing really gets in the way except this ignorance, and ignorance only comes from the mind, isn't it? Yeah? So now if the job is to not fall for this trick or to catch this thief, you see, do you feel it's a good idea to call up the thief and say, 'Hey, where are you at? You know, I want to come and catch you.' Do you think that'll work out well? Because it is not a thief that is ready to surrender. The thief only wants to preserve itself, and not only does it want to preserve itself, it also wants to dominate. It wants to win. It wants to be the only one that is ruling this world. So to go to the mind to get a diagnosis about what is happening to us is like calling the thief saying, 'I want to catch you. Can you tell me your address, please?' And that will not work out well. So then if our presumptions about what is happening to us are coming from the same source, then how credible is that? And this is the number one reason that most spiritual seekers don't become spiritual finders, because the mind keeps us on this trip. It keeps us on this treadmill saying, 'Ah, it was like this, then now it is like this now,' you see? But is the thief pretending to give you the way to catch the thief? But it's never going to. So where can we go to get true insight about anything? To get true insight about anything? So if the insight about what is happening to us now is coming from the wrong source, is there a better source to go to? Where can we go? So if I was to say, 'Okay, now tell me again what is happening to you, but tell me the truth this time.'

Is that conceptual? Is that just thought, or is it something else? Yeah, it feels like, yeah, intuitive. It's knowing somehow that, yeah, this is it.

Because if you keep relying on the false diagnosis, then we will take the wrong treatments and that will keep us a forever patient, you're saying.

Yeah. Yeah. And now when we're speaking, I could see that I even, even this, they are believing in this identity that I have been, you know, more engaged with thoughts, so I've been distracted. All this is also just another idea, you know? I can see them now.

So what you perceive, you see, it's not the essence. What you perceive is the constantly changing realm. But what you are—so what is the true test of whether you're being intuitive or mental? The true test is only when who you are is apparent to you. You're being intuitive because you can only check on who you are truly intuitively. You can never do it with the mind, you see? So as who you are is apparent to you, what is flowing through you, what is appearing for you, what your mouth is saying, what your hands are writing, where your feet are moving—all of that is intuitive. Yeah? But in the identified place where we take ourselves to be that which the mind is saying, the world is still moving in the light of Consciousness, but it can feel like 'I am in it as an individual.'

Yeah, exactly.

So then the way to be is to just be. And the way you're saying that is to be headless. So the way to be intuitive is to not be in the head. But many times the head itself is very good at posing as if it is intuition. It'll give you spiritual advice. Spiritual-sounding words will come to your head and then you will feel like, 'But this is true,' you see? It's not true because everything that is said is true for the moment. There is no truth permanently, you see? So in satsang, when something is being said, it is appropriate just for that moment. But the mind will use it as if it is a repository of gospel truth or something like that. But it can never be that. But because it uses those words which sound like the words from the Satguru, then it can feel like, 'But this must be true because it sounds just like the Master.' Instead of that, just go, if you need a pointer, like 'Am I aware now?' and allow yourself to be headless in the apparency of this Atma Gyan, the apparency of the Self-knowledge where what you are truly is apparent to you. Not that you're thinking that you are awareness now, not that you're perceiving something special, just that which is beyond both of these modes of knowledge. Then you're being intuitive.

Yeah, I feel like, I don't know. Is there, is there—do you feel like this is a place?

Because I don't know, we'll be guided intuitively if that is the guidance you need to hear at that point, that some effort is needed to not be mental. But again, just be careful of the proclamations of the mind saying that this is what you need or this is what you don't need, you know? Try it with—so stay as what you are is apparent to you. Stay like that, you see? And your attention can go anywhere. Now tell me, now speak from there.

You may find that words are coming because that is the quote-unquote space where satsang is shared.

So all of you come to satsang to get the darshan of that. Get a darshan of that. If you want to hear that voice which is your own heart, which is your own intuitive insight, you want to hear the words from them. Since sometimes the mind will just tell you that, 'Oh, but over there there's nothing, no words can be spoken.' It's not true, you see? That is the very intelligence that runs this universe. That is the very intelligence that runs this universe, including the life of this body-mind. So if it chooses this instrument to speak, then it will speak from there as well. You will find that your true knowledge that you have intuitively—you may find that if the words are being expressed, you may feel like they don't match up to what your insight is, you see? And it's not true to feel that. Like many times I've said in satsang that the words that are being used to express what the insight is are not matching up to the insight, and maybe they can never match up to the insight, you see? And yet they are better than just being mental about things. Now what about practical things? What are you going to do?

Yeah, yeah, everything's okay to do.

Yes. So practical and non-practical, or practical and satsang, is just a mental category. So don't, don't ever fall for that mind trick which says, 'Oh, intuition is okay for satsang, but I can't intuitively send an email for work' or something like this, please. Yeah? The mind is just a tiny speck of intelligence that is derived from this intuition itself. So why can we not go to the source instead of the tiny speck? I've received in my mouth gaining a lot sooner. Then I can see also there's almost like the energy of identity, identified identity with this style. You have to do something that you know that. But yeah, I can see that that's all things, another idea.

When I say to you, 'Stay where Atma Gyan is apparent to you,' does that sound too complicated? I can find an easier way to say that. What is apparent? Apparent in the sense that if I ask you, 'Are you aware now?' what is the answer?

Yeah.

You see? And where is the recognition coming from? Is it mental? Is it perceptual? It's beyond both of these. So this is what I mean by apparent. It's just so natural. It's just so super obvious that you don't have to take a step, you don't have to move an inch, you don't have to do any mental process, you don't have to do anything with your attention, and that you are is apparent to you. Now if I say...

Parent's name current in the sense that if I ask you, are you aware now, what is the answer? Yeah, you see. And where is the recognition coming from? Is it mental? Is it perceptual? It's beyond both of these. So this is what I mean by apparent. It's just so natural. It's just so super obvious that you don't have to take a step, you don't have to move an inch, you don't have to do any mental process, you don't have to do anything with your attention, and that you are is apparent to you. Now if I say remain in this apparency of self-knowledge, can anything really get in the way of that?

Yes, but can anything really force you to believe it?

Yeah, can you believe your perception? Just believe the perception for itself. I believe this, yeah, I can't believe it. John will use just a perception, isn't it? You are, you can only believe one perception which is called a thought, notion, or a concept, you see. And no thought is big enough. You need to force Consciousness to get belief, so it's just not possible for a thought to be that strong. In fact, it's not possible for anything to be that strong, but Consciousness becomes hostage to it in any way. Yeah, I'm actually preempting all the doubts which your mind will throw at you after this conversation is over. So what can force you to step away from self-knowledge?

Yeah, yes. Does that mean that it's a choice that I made?

Yes, you as Consciousness. You as Consciousness, not you as the non-existent one. A non-existent one obviously cannot make any choice, just like the non-existent cat sitting next to you cannot drink any milk. In the same way that the identity which doesn't really exist does not have the choice, but all of this is the will of Consciousness itself. And that is why satsang means just Consciousness reminding Consciousness of its own truth somehow, you see. It's a crazy game, of course. It's a crazy Leela. It's crazy, man, that Consciousness somehow seems to enjoy. So we play, we play in this way. So don't be scared of the word choice because I know that in kind of modern non-duality, then we feel like choice equals doership and doership equals individuality. But the choice that we are talking about is the choice that Bhagwan said, that if you feel like you can do anything, then make the choice to not go with the stream of thoughts, and then we'll see that all of that is the play of Consciousness itself. So this is just a satsang is only an alarm clock that Consciousness has set for itself. So to not be identified or to not believe the limitation about yourself is completely up to you as Consciousness that exists.

So everyone says, so Bhagwan said don't go into the stream of thought. He said keep quiet. Guruji says don't identify. I may say don't believe your next thought. All of us would not say this if it was not possible. So the mind becomes very Advaita then, saying choice, but there is no doer here, suddenly it becomes always. Yeah, so it's a trap. Don't fall for that trap. Consciousness is completely free, free to either identify or not identify with any thought that comes. Thank you. And you know the good news? The good news is that when you're not identified, when you're not taking yourself to be the product of a mental construct, when you're not buying into the notion of your limitation, then naturally your intuitive self-knowledge is naturally apparent to you. Like right now, you're not being mental, so who you are is clear to you. Yeah, this is a beautiful universal truth. And that is what Bhagwan said, that self-knowledge is not an attainment or something new that you will get; it is just letting go of ignorance.

Foreign than to become something.

Yes, exactly, exactly. Not at all of becoming anything. Not at all attainment of something new or the gathering of something new. Just the removal of the dust. Not even a removal, actually; it is just automatically removed. Actually, this is not picking up noodles. It comes as a gift, you know. You just do this and you'll be perfectly fine. Even now it will tell you something like that. It'll say, 'Ah, this is what you have to do now.' Okay, so just notice that even that is a reference to a limited 'I' and you don't have to pick it up. I'm liking this game. And if you're not able to speak because your family is there or something is there, you can just tell me that. And let's see who haven't I spoken to. Can I, although we have spoken before, can I speak to Judith? Yes, yes.

Thank you so much. It's all I feel is the immense gratitude for everything. I have followed you for about eight months now and every step, after every satsang or during every satsang, it's just, you know, everything is dissolving. Everything that is false falling, falling away and it just laughs. It's just so beautiful. I can't believe I'm speaking now. You know, it's just really life is unfolding on its own and it just, you just pulse to do things that are happening every day and without, without thoughts. And it's just, you know, even telling people around who are around me and just trying to, it's impossible to even explain or try to understand. Life is just so, so beautiful. It's like it's just unfolding. It's just, it's easy, it's simple. I don't know what to say. This is really, it's just even if there are things that are, you know, seem to be difficult or like for example having a little back pain or whatever, it's just, it's all in, you know, I'm not suffering it. There's no suffering. Yes, there's pain, there's pain, you know, there could be pain, but it's just no suffering because it's all, it's all fine. Everything is just okay, you know, it's whatever. You know, it's just no worries. There's everything is taken care of and Guru's grace. I just, you know, living from the heart surely I am forever thankful.

I'm so happy to hear. Thank you. So do you feel like there's anything at all that gets in your way or that you struggle with now?

Nothing really. It's just, you know, like if I can say how all this, you know, if it's helpful to anybody, like a lot of read, I love, I love read to read, you know, and a lot of reading, especially your books and you know, all the sages' books and Mooji. And so it just started to, you know, whenever a thought came, yes, I always had this: don't, don't make any conclusions, just, just don't take a position, don't believe your next thought. It's like first it was a tricky, I know it's the mind speaking like, 'Oh, you know, like you know all these things.' So, you know, just, but then something just started to be really quiet and just all these things, all these even concepts or whatever you call it, yes, they just started to as if coming from the heart now. You know, it's like the mind came down to the heart or I don't know. That's it.

Yeah, and no problem. This is amazing. Beautiful, beautiful report. I'm so happy. I'm so happy. Thank you. So much love, so much love, so much love. Thank you. Thank you. How are you?

I'm good.

Did you know I was going to pick you? I feel like you knew somewhere, maybe I don't know. It's so good to hear from you. I see that you've been with satsang with me for quite some time but you hardly ever come up, you hardly say it. So what's your report? I want to hear your report actually.

Whenever I needed to ask I came also before, I don't know, five, six times, something like this. Now at the moment I don't think I have a question but I really enjoy these satsangs so it's a privilege to be here. And everything is good, fully, fully good, fully, fully good. I don't know, sometimes of course, yeah, I can say difficult, hard or something, but it is good.

Yes, yes. I remember that when I used to just ask about whether the Self is apparent then you would always have a bit of like a, you know, kind of sort of thing. So is it, is it clearer now? Like you remember this, like I would say now the Self is apparent to you and you would be like, 'I don't know, is it?' I remember.

Yeah, I believe it is clear now.

Yeah, it's very good. It's very good. Thank you so much for sharing this. We can just attend from our home, it's so precious. Thank you so much. All my love, so happy to hear you. Let's go to Miguel. Namaste. So good to see you again.

Thank you, thank you so much. It's such a privilege to be always here with you. Understand that well, it's amazing, amazing grace.

You've been with me for so many years and yet you hardly ever have raised your hand or said, 'I want to say something' or make a report.

So yeah, I think that you are answering all the questions that I can have before even I can even express them in all your satsangs. It's always pointing to the same bits.

Amazing, amazing. Is there any part of satsang which seems confusing or not clear? Any report you want to make about it?

Well, I would say that everything is very clear, but at the same time it seems that identification goes on as well in its own. I think, well, it seems that Consciousness is playing all this game, so I don't take it too seriously. I think the way it's expressing in this, let's say body-mind or in this expression, so well, I'm enjoying and it's a good reminder also always to be in your presence. It seems that, I don't know, we always put, I, at least in my case, I always fall into, let's say, forgetting myself in a sense, if this is possible. But then everything goes with grace assisted, so everything is very, very, it's very nice.

That's very good. Yeah, as long as you, like you said, you don't take it seriously. And it does happen from time to time, it's completely all right. It's natural in the human condition for that to happen because the design of this play is so compelling that even the best, you know, spiritual, even the sages, you see, can identify from time to time or will identify from time to time. So as long as you're not beating yourself up about it, you're not feeling guilty, you're just coming back to the Unborn, remaining open and empty, it's completely fine. So thank you, thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So much love, so much love, all my love. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Eric, you know, you may be able to try to come on the camera so that's right.

Yes, yes. It's like this for me, it's like camera shyness there. Yes, I'm trying to be as truthful to myself as possible because it's such a great, great opportunity and energy to speak with you. Yeah, I've been with Guruji for some years already and it always has felt from the beginning like it's the wisdom that I so much my heart belongs to hear. And yeah, I didn't hear these things in normal conversations with people. And yeah, it's so hard to describe what Guruji has done for me, you know, these years. Yeah, yeah, it's really difficult to describe this, how it's changed my entire life, my entire being, and yourself also. I've been following you for some time and it has been amazing in how it has emptied me and it's just keep emptying me all the time. And I've been lucky to meet also some being near to me that has also emerged in God and entity from India, and she's a young woman. And it has so much opens up the opportunity for me to see that it is actually something that is really possible for all of us. This is who we are. Yes, there's nothing that can change this. This is who we are. This is our truth. And it doesn't make a difference if someone is washing clothes at home or is sitting like you in front of the satsang. And it is a real opportunity. But at the same time, I know that I cannot say that I have truly emerged in God. And I asked this from you last time and really understand what you said about this, that this is the concept in the minds also that that is not true right now, that we are not enlightened or we are not the Self right now. It's so like this. But I don't know, at the same time it is recognized that this is true, yes. But also I know that...

In front of the satsang, it is a real opportunity. But at the same time, I know that I cannot say that I have truly emerged in God. I asked this from you last time, and I really understand what you said about this—that this is the concept in the mind also, that it is not true right now that we are not enlightened or we are not the Self right now. It's like this. But I don't know; at the same time, it is recognized that this is true, yes. But also I know that there is also some work that needs to continue to empty out further this Consciousness that I am. I'm just open for this. I'm just fully here for this. My life is for this. I don't want to do anything else with my life.

Good, good. Thank you. Thank you for those words. Now you see that you knew I'm going to pick on this part of it, no? So you say that, 'I'm not there yet.' In a way, in some things, 'I'm not there yet.' So what is that about? Tell me more. How do you know?

How do I know that? When you're saying you know that you're intuitive and the Self is apparent to you, many times the Self is apparent to me. But sometimes there's a doubt when there is a lot of activity going on, when there is suffering from my loved ones that I'm seeing from nearby. I feel it is apparent, but maybe not all the time.

Ah, okay. And how do you know it's not all the time?

Because maybe there is some—I feel there is some movement from being fully in the heart to getting into the mind a little bit again. And that's what I'm asking.

So how do you know that this happens to you?

Thank you. I think there is some energy. I'm feeling that the energy is more inside the head than just fully empty and aware.

Okay. Now, anything that you perceive—anything that you can perceive—it may be like a big energy, it may be like a constriction, you see. In the perception of that, is it getting in the way of your freedom?

No, it doesn't matter. Maybe there is some subtle wish that, for me, just in order to not be hurtful to anyone around me, I need to be fully merged in this. Like, I need to be fully empty all the time.

Yes. So what we are clarifying—and I feel like this is the golden key, you know, it's a golden key—what we want to clarify is that what source of knowledge can tell us exactly what we need to do, or what is missing, or you know, what keeps us from being fully free? Where can we go for that diagnosis? Where can we go for that understanding? Because you will admit that if you go to the wrong place... were you here in the beginning of satsang? Not at the very beginning. If you're trying to catch a thief, you cannot call the thief and say, 'Give me your address.' Yes? If you want to be free from the mind and the mind is the only thing that gets in the way, we cannot ask the mind, 'What is stopping you from being free?' Where can we go to for the true answer for what is stopping you from being free? So what does the heart say?

I'm free already. The heart is just, I guess, empty. It's not... it's just the very...

So let me ask the difficult question for the head, or an impossible question for the head, and see what comes up just naturally from your heart with no effort whatsoever, okay? And there's no judgment, right or wrong, don't worry about it at all. So if I was to ask your heart who you are, from the heart...

I'm not sure if the heart will answer anything.

Give it some time. Give it some time.

I'm afraid if I answer, anything is coming from my mind rather than...

Okay, so I give you a tool for that. Thank you. So when I ask you, 'Are you aware now?'

I am, yes.

Does that... is that recognition possible in the mind? Recognition. And allow your mouth to move if it is moving.

And this awareness is me. It's my... it's the truth of me. It's the same awareness that is seeing me waking up and me going to sleep. Yes, seeing every little movement. It's noticing, knowing even this 'me' who wants to... it's getting towards enlightenment. It's seeing all of this, yes. And it's me being emptied out. It's seeing this also.

How does it see the 'you'? How is the 'you' seen? How is the 'me' seen? How is the 'me' seen, the one that needs... and tell me what needs to be emptied out.

The mind. Ah, no.

Okay, come back slowly. Just relax. Relax again. Now, are you okay now? Now tell me what needs to be done.

No, nothing.

He likes it. See you later. I'm on the chatter talking about the background noise, but Sepi is in a place which has some people around. We have a bit of a low quality audio for her freedom right now, so I feel like we can live with it for a few more minutes and then we'll go back. But for a while, do you feel like a tug of war? If you feel like a tug of war for a while, where sometimes we feel like the head is compelling you to believe it and sometimes it will feel so easy. That's why I've given you a tool. You can ask yourself, 'Am I aware now?' and you can notice if you're just giving the answer conceptually or if you're speaking from recognition. Yeah, notice that for yourselves. And then, as this is what I mean by the apparency of self-knowledge, it can seem like very complicated words, but actually it's very simple. I'm just saying that when who you are is really apparent to you, then it will only be intuitive. Then who I am is apparent to me. And then what did she say? When you're only being intuitive, you are not being mental. Yes. So you can live like that, actually. There's no reason then to shift to the mind right now.

Ananta Ji, I didn't hear the last part, I'm so sorry. I think maybe I can add an entity that in life things are going quite easy, like in the practical kind of things, because of satsang, because of Guruji and all this Grace. It's just that the identification with the body, I know it's still here. I know there's also the body that, you know... so I feel I can say to you—I don't speak to anyone else about this—but to you I can say that I really can recognize that this is who we are. There cannot be any other truth than this. Yes. But I think there is this fear that, okay, when things are good—even though my life hasn't been that much easier the last few months, but still I can say it's relatively good, it can be much, much worse for people—but I mean like, when it gets really tough, then the test is really coming. Are you really identified with the body or not? Or maybe at the moment of that... the body, yeah.

So what is happening here is that you have some true insights, you see, but that is getting mixed with mind. That is mixed with identification, and the mind is making reports about what is truly happening to you. But because true insight is there, then the mind is getting credibility because the report mixes a bit of the true insight and then mixes a bit of the false in it. So it can feel like the journey is still continuing and perpetuating, you see. Notice, I've given you the key: nothing can force you out of self-recognition. Nothing can force you out of the self-recognition. You can live here comfortably without any need to go to the mind because everything—all intelligence, all guidance, everything that you need even on a worldly way—is available to you here. So you never have to believe the mind when it is saying that, 'Oh, this is very scary' and 'Then let's do this' or 'So this is not done yet' or 'You know, this has to be done.' So use my key, which is: how do you know? Can you make a report about yourself? And you believe a report about yourself? It doesn't matter what you say, you can tell me anything of course, but when you buy something, when you believe something about yourself, ask yourself where that conclusion is coming from. Is that coming from a place of true insight or is it just... you know, when I ask people, 'So how do you know?' mostly I get the answer that, 'I notice,' you see. 'I notice it is like this.' But it's not true. We don't notice; we just think it is that way, you see. So really be ruthless in that way, ruthless with the mind in that way. They are not buying into any mental conclusions because like I was saying earlier, the thief will not tell you its address. He will not say, 'Come and catch me, I'm here.' The thief will always say, 'Ah, it's that relationship,' or 'Oh, it's that feeling,' or 'Oh, it's this thing,' you see. 'Technology is this thought which is making you suffer.' So just become ruthless with that and try not to fall for any notion about a journey or time and things like this. Like, don't buy into any notion of process and journey and path, you see. Does it mean that you take the opposite? You don't have to start saying, 'No, no, there's no time. No, no, I'm fully free.' It doesn't mean you take the opposite position. Just be empty of both positions. Be empty of both positions. So this will help. And really ask yourself, 'So how do you know?' Before you set out on a path, you must ask yourself: what is the source of this knowledge? Is this map that I'm referring to, is it a credible map? Or if I'm in Rishikesh, do I have a map of Bangalore and I'm referring to the map of Bangalore? That is not going to work out well. Okay? So contemplate. I feel like I've given you enough to chew on now.

Thank you so much. I'm going to hear from you soon, yes. Okay, thank you so much with all my heart for you. And we take it maybe for granted sometimes that you are just here every week, so openly available. And this is the greatest gift one can have in life. This is... this is nice.

Thank you so much. Anything? Who can you pick now? Can we go to someone who doesn't have their video on? Is that scary? Okay, let's go to... can we go to Gustavo? Gustavo, can you come? If you can't come, then you can put on the chat. Yeah, I can come. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Father. Take your time. It can feel a bit intimidating and that's why we're doing this exercise where I'm just calling out those who don't usually come up, because I realize that sometimes just a small fear about coming up in front of people can be stopping us. So it's all ridiculous and you feel at home. Even if it takes five minutes, it's completely fine. Thank you for exposing me. Sorry to meet you, finally.

And there were some words out there. You can speak them out. There's no rush. There are no questions here. No questions. To see if something is hiding or just like something doesn't want to be exposed. That's what comes. So if you'd like to guide...

Yeah, so let me ask with a simpler question then. Would you categorize yourself as a spiritual seeker?

I can't say that I'm... I'm spiritual, yeah. Spiritual but not seeking. I am seeking in a way, as much as I know that I'm here and that I'm before everything. I'm still looking.

Now, this knowledge that you speak of, that 'I am here and I'm before everything,' what is the instrument of that knowledge? Do you perceive this or do you think it? It gets mixed up, yeah.

Like, I know. I know it's like that, yes. But... okay, just...

No, 'know' is a very broad word. It's a very broad word. Like when we see there is a computer in front of me, we can say, 'I know there is a computer in front of me' because I perceive the computer, you see. The way to know is when we say, 'Okay, the Earth is really moving very fast.' You see, it actually seems it is still in perception, but actually we know that it's actually moving very fast, but we know it conceptually, you see. So these are two types of knowing: one is perception, the other is concept. In what way do you recognize yourself or know yourselves?

I think that both ways, yeah. Like, I know because my heart knows, yeah. And also mind, somehow, like...

Yes, so I'm very interested in the first part. I'm very interested in the first part. So this heart knowledge, you see, does it come and go?

No.

So when the oscillation happens or the seeming fluctuation happens, what is actually happening then if the heart knowledge does not change? It's just as you say, yeah, like...

In what way do you recognize yourself or know yourselves?

Um, I think that both ways. Yeah, like, um, I know because, um, my heart knows. Yeah, and also mine now somehow, like, um, yeah.

Yes, so I'm very interested in the first part. I'm very interested in the first part. So this heart knowledge, you see, does it come and go? No. So when the oscillation happens or the seeming fluctuation happens, what is actually happening then if the heart knowledge does not change? It's just as you say, yeah, like, um, going to the wrong instrument, yeah, for the answer. Yeah, yes. And with what instrument do we know that we are going through the wrong instrument? The wrong instrument is not going to say 'I'm the wrong instrument,' you see. It is going to say 'This is what is happening to you; you're going to the wrong instrument.' So the nature of the mind is self-preservation, and I've been saying it's self-preservation and dominance, actually. So in the garb of the spiritual advisor also, it can perpetuate itself.

Okay, so where can we go for a true insight about what we need to do next to become—to go from a spiritual seeker to a spiritual finder, or not even a spiritual finding? Sorry, can I just say that again, please? Yes, thank you. Yes, yes, yes. So if you feel like there's a particular affliction that we have that needs to be resolved, and once it is resolved then I am fully free, where can we go to really find out what the true affliction is? Because if we ask the affliction itself, you see, in this case the affliction is not going to be honest about it.

Yeah, somehow, somehow, um, when affliction comes, when there is suffering or what there is a problem, um, automatically we go to the program to find a solution. Um, I mean, I go to the program to find a solution. So it's like, it's like very, very easy when, when the problem is not there, yeah, yeah, it actually, um, meet ourselves.

Yes, so may I just pause here and ask you: what is the source of this report? So tell me again, what is the essence of what the heart is saying right now? What is happening with you? What percentage free are you in the heart? Sorry, what is your percentage of freedom in the heart? What is the heart's report? Like 90% free, 99% free? What is 100%? Is there actually this opposite of freedom and bondage, this dichotomy of freedom and bondage in the heart? Is it difficult to remain where self-knowledge is apparent to you?

Sometimes, yes.

And how do you know this? I'm sorry, I realize it's very irritating also, you know, like asking people with this question. Yeah, that's the question you're asking me. Yes, how do you know? You know, these kids in the Bangalore Sangha have been asking me anytime I'm saying something now, they're just like, 'But how do you know?' What is that source of knowledge that we can always rely on, and is it not always available to us? It's always something.

The only problem with this source of knowledge, which is intuitive insight, which is the heart, is that it does not give us enough content for our stories. It does not give us content for the journey. It does not give us content for a narrative. And many times it does not tell us what our present situation is, and we feel helpless without that because we cannot build a narrative unless we can situate ourselves in some present situation. You see, how will you start the next line of your story unless you're able to say 'This is what is happening to me right now'? Where does the story start? So you have to start the story by saying 'Once upon a time there was a king and a queen' or something like this. Without that, the context is not set. You cannot start a story from nothing.

Okay, so the instant we grab on to the pretext from a notional idea about ourselves, then that becomes fertile ground for the narrative to continue. But if you remain in the heart, then there's usually very little we can say, you see, in terms of a pretext or a subtext of the story.

Somehow it feels like there is nothing to say from there. Yeah, at the very same time when you see, it feels like—what do you actually mean? Um, as if, as if I know I have to use all 'it seems like,' 'as if'...

No, I'm just proposing. Okay, suppose I was to be a little stronger. I am going to say that it's not actually 'feels like,' it's only a 'thinks like,' you see. So what would you say to that?

It's like I have to go to the mind to actually explain something. Yeah, like, um, like I'm not used to speaking from the clouds. Yeah, like, um, so automatically I go to the wrong instrument and I know I do that. Yeah, I can see doing that. I can see myself doing that.

Yeah, now I want to tell you that if you take the diagnosis from the wrong doctor, you will not get the right treatment. Yeah, and you may sound fully convinced about it and you may say 'But I know this to be true,' but if it's just a thought, you do not know this to be true, as authoritative as the mind may sound. So when you say 'Automatically I go to the mind,' you are referring to yourself not as Consciousness but as something that can be so meek and weak that it can be forced to go automatically to the mind, you see. But you are not that; you are Consciousness itself.

I just want to point out to you and all of you, you see, that the method of perpetuating and elongating the spiritual journey is to take what is happening from the mind, which will say 'But this is your reality, this is where you are right now.' And once you buy into that notion, you're already caught up, you see, because all solutions may be from that perspective, you see, from that individualized perspective, from that limited perspective. But instantly, right now, your truth is fully apparent to you, you see. It's fully apparent to you. This is universal, you see. So don't take the spiritual aspect of the mind, or that aspect of the mind which has understood spirituality, as if it is your true guide in this journey, because then the journey will keep perpetuating.

So prefer not knowing. Prefer not knowing. So even if it feels like you're too naked, you're too empty, you see, you don't know anything anymore, even if it feels—prefer that to going to a conclusion about what your reality is. Even if the mind shouts and says 'But I do know, I am telling you.' The mind has designed a beautiful treadmill for you on which you can run for the rest of your life and maybe many lives, you see. So I'm trying to pull you out of that treadmill. I'm just going to mute everyone and mute you in a moment. See if you can unmute yourself.

Yeah, don't believe the notion that without going to the mind I cannot express anything, there is nothing to say, because this is a common defense, you see. It's a common defense that the mind itself proposes: that without me you are useless, you see. And satsang is a living example of how expression can happen without needing the mind.

Thank you. Um, one thing that, that I think that I'm used to find... um, there is this—well, I don't know how to put this in words—but um, there is the thing that um, there is a complete trust in, and something still doubts it. Yeah, like, um, as if the complete trust, um, is also a trick of the mind.

Yes, yes. One tip that the turntable gives you is that if anything sounds like it's a little complicated, it is mental. Yeah, okay? So don't fall for any of these like little seeming problems. Okay, now on one hand there's complete trust, but there's also doubt in the interplay between the two, you see. It's a bit disforgettable. There's nothing like this. The mind loves to give us complicated problems. The heart is very simple. And sometimes the mind inserts itself into your truest insights, you see, inserts itself as a thin layer into your truest insights and says, 'Ah, okay, now this is what's happening. Yes, you have full trust.' And then I feel because it is mixed with the true insight, it can feel like 'But this must be a true report.'

In India we have this notion of quacks. You know what quacks are? Quacks are actually people who are pretending to be doctors, okay? They pretend to be doctors and, you know, they charge money from patients. They're usually just injecting people with either antibiotics or distilled water, you know, and they pretend as if they're real doctors and they charge you 100 rupees every time you go to them. So the mind is like that. It pretends to be a real doctor and it gives you a diagnosis and proposes a solution to you, but it actually has no claim, no true claim to knowledge.

Thank you. And this is actually the reason why most spiritual seekers—in fact, a majority of spiritual seekers—do not feel that they come to true insight or freedom, because they are waiting for a mental confirmation or the mind to diagnose what their current state is. But the thief will not give itself up. It will not say that 'I am the problem.' It will say that that feeling is the problem, that lack of complete surrender mixed with doubt is the problem, that something else is a problem. No, the only problem is the thought. This thought which will come now is the only, only problem, you see. But it's not a problem unless you identify with it. The appearance of thought is not thinking; the identification with thought is thinking.

So even if it feels like 'I'm lost, I don't have a ground to stand on anymore, I don't know what's happening to me,' you see, prefer that not knowing. Unless it's just a mental position, prefer that emptiness rather than a mental conclusion about where you are, what your state is. Because no amount of wrong knowledge will get us to right knowledge. So you can have a million pieces of wrong knowledge, but that will not help us come to right knowledge.

So then the only interplay that remains is whether Consciousness is playing as if it is the ego or it is playing intuitively, you see. That is the only thing then which seems like the difference in the play. So how can we really confirm that I am being intuitive and not mental? How can we confirm for ourselves that we are being intuitive and not mental? What have you said now? If it's apparent who we are, yes, yes, exactly. You see, like over the years I've given many tips and tricks about this. I've told everyone that if you're in a rush, if you're grasping, if you feel like you need something, if you're desiring, then all of that is proposals from the mind, you see. But I've also noticed that the mind can be very tricky. It can sound just like satsang, you see. It can sound just like satsang, you see.

So the only foolproof way is to remain in the apparency of self-knowledge. When it is apparent who you are, then you can only be intuitive. What stops us? What stops you from living like this?

And can anything... I can see that the, um, answer is going to come for the wrong—is from the wrong instrument. That what stops it.

How do you know this, my dear? Because this is blocking you. This is blocking you, to presume that 'Okay, but intuition is dumb, it cannot give an answer,' you see. I'm provoking you, of course, just like recording you. So this is not credible at all, that if I am being intuitive then no answer can come from here. Maybe we can say that no answer is coming from here, that's fine, you see, that's fine. But then I'm finding a finality in your words which is sort of conveying that if I give an answer, it has to come from the mind. That is not true.

Um, what I'm saying is that, um, right now what's happening is like I'm looking for the answer in my mind. Yeah.

So stop that. It's completely up to you because satsang is Consciousness speaking with Consciousness, okay? So we are not presuming that there's an Ananta here, there's a Gustavo there, you see. Consciousness is fully in its power. Do not do that. So if you spot that you're doing it, stop it. So, what's the question? So any question is useful. Any question that the mind cannot answer, you see. So the question could be: What is love? What is truth? What is real peace? What is the sleep state?

So stop that. It's completely up to you because satsang is Consciousness speaking with Consciousness, okay? So we are not presuming that there's an Ananta here, there's a Gustavo there, you see? Consciousness is fully in its power. Do not do that. So if you spot that you're doing it, stop it.

So, what's the question? Any question is useful. Any question that the mind cannot answer, you see? So the question could be: what is love? What is truth? What is real peace? What is the sleep state? You see, all the questions in the invitation, none of those questions you can answer with your mind. So all these questions which are truly valuable in the human condition, none of them we can answer in the head, okay? So we can actually pick any questions. You can just pick 'Who am I?' You can say so why...

In the pressure of having to find an answer, I'm just getting you used to even the silence of intuition is preferable to the conclusion of the mind.

Questions like 'Who am I?' don't take me to them. Right, exactly.

Now this is getting you used to no question having to take you to the mind. In fact, it is the design of these questions. Guruji gave us this question: 'Were you born?' Where can we answer this from the mind? We don't have an answer to a question like this. So the point of a question like this is to introduce you to the higher insight, to the higher intelligence, which is the intuitive insight. But don't allow the mind to play a trick and say, 'But that is useful only for spiritual questions.' This is not true.

Very good. I feel like we made a lot of headway today and I'd love to hear from you very soon. Thank you so much, Father. Thank you, thank you again. I love you. Love you too. Thank you, thank you.

So really, primarily, it is about the switching of the instrument from head to heart, independent of the content of the question or the content of the answer. You see, really what satsang is about is getting you used to the true source of knowledge where self-knowledge is apparent, rather than having the right answers or providing the right answers or solving the realization of the Self as if it is a puzzle. It is not a mental process; it is not a process of perception. Okay, let's see. Can we go to... have we spoken with Lorena? Lorena, can you come?

Namaste. Thank you so much. Can you hear me? Can you hear me well? I have a low battery because I'm not home right now. Thank you so much for picking me up again because I don't know why I cannot come in front of you by myself, because I feel very dumb right in front of you. I have very... stupid, stupid. No, but I know I'm not stupid, but I cannot formulate thoughts in front of you. And this is a problem for me, or I don't know if this is the best way to express myself.

I love this. Systems where we cannot formulate a thought, it's perfect.

I can formulate a thought, but I cannot make an argument from touch. I was thinking what is the best pointing from you when your life feels that I will come to speak. And for me, in the beginning of your satsangs, it was like I was paralyzed because I received a lot of pointings to test, and I tested a lot of this. In satsangs, I feel like you put me in a corner and I have no moves. It's like a forcing to look at myself. And I don't know if I... I didn't come to look at myself. I came to satsang to solve the problem of suffering. And the problem of suffering was solved by looking at myself. And I wonder why I have to look at myself. I don't want to look at myself.

And the best pointing for me was... who struggles a lot, and I was tested a lot. So it was like, it is not necessary to cross the street. No, if you have a lot of thoughts, it doesn't matter because you don't have to cross the street. It was very, very powerful for me because I was trying to stop my mind to see myself, something like that. And I see that it's not necessary. I cannot... I can see myself without stopping my mind and my thoughts. I can see it when the thoughts are moving, and just see what the thoughts are. You know, that it was very nice for me and I greatly, deeply thank you for this and for all the satsangs. Because I don't know why I'm coming, but it is the best for me to spend this time. It is very valuable for me, this satsang.

And it was a wonder that all these years, when the satsangs came, I have time to attend it. It was very... it was a miracle for me because I think I have attended all satsangs. Almost all; one or two I escaped, but I think it was a miracle because I have time five minutes before. Very, very interesting. And sometimes I have some doubts because I'm a very, very ordinary woman. I have no extra-sensorial or some miracle, great states. It doesn't happen to me. And sometimes I doubt my thing because I have no this great state. But like you always said, it's too obvious. I don't know what is happening. I don't know, I don't know. But it doesn't matter if this state comes or not.

And sometimes I love this, I remember some pointings from the past. Like, I have some cats here around me and I remember your pointing... the cats, oh yes, yes. And I don't know what it was the last... yes, we had some internet thing. Was it only... was everyone not able to hear very well? Okay, so but I realized what you're saying. You're saying that you have some cats to do and you remember the cat story because of that. Yes, another cat story and the choosing: God now or meow meow. And sometimes I think, oh yes, I like to be a cat. Yes, I like to be a cat. Thank you for reminding me. This is very nice.

This was many years ago, actually. I would say either 'God now' or 'me-ow.' Okay? If you take the 'me' to be true, then 'ow' is bound to follow.

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. And love you very, very much.

Love you so much. Thank you. Love you, love you. Thank you.

My battery is gone, I think. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Okay, this is good. Let's see. Can we go to Jay? Jai Ma.

Jai Ma. Can you hear me? Yes, yes. Oh, Namaste. Thank you, thank you. I love to be here with you and with all of you all together with this satsang. I am in silence. I am hearing this satsang and I stay now in a great silence and in a great joy, thinking that I don't know anything and that is the way this body is living in this last time. I don't know. I say that if something I can't explain why it is, is because it is true.

So I want to tell that in December, yes, I'm going to see you. I'm going to Bangalore. That's why I like very much to see you and to be in some satsang with you because I'm hearing and getting inside this way with all my heart.

That's wonderful. Okay, very good. I'm so happy to hear this.

Yes, well thank you to give me this opportunity to talk and I hope to be there soon. Now I'm going, I mean in a few days I go to Sahaja. Wonderful, wonderful. Yes, yes, I feel I am in the field of Grace. Thank you very much. Love you, love you. We are one here.

Yes, thank you. So beautiful. Thank you, thank you, thank you. May we look forward to your visit. I'm sure you'll have a wonderful, wonderful stay in Sahaja as well.

Yeah, thank you. Love you.

Okay. What about... how do you say, Javier? Is it Javier or Xavier? How do you say it again?

Hey, hello. I'm so happy. Okay, thank you. Thank you everyone. I don't know what to say. Yes, thank you. Thank you to you and to all the Sangha. Thank you, thank you.

Give me a report.

Only gratitude. I don't know, I'm so grateful, so grateful. Yes, and I appreciate so much everything that you teach to us and the whole Sangha. My English is not so good but I always follow you since a few years, but you know. And I appreciate so much every teaching that you shared with us and the whole Sangha. Every member of this Sangha is just like family for me. I really, really appreciate, really too much, too much. Yes, I am not good for making questions, but my heart wants to say right now we are one. We are one.

Very good. So happy to hear you. So happy to be here.

Oh, me too, me too. I didn't expect it though.

It's really good. Let's go to Sylvia.

Thank you, Father. Welcome, welcome. Thank you for calling me. I can hear you very well.

You have to make it even more confusing.

Many things, many things from you and Guruji sometimes can be confusing when I try to understand the mind. And when I see that I try to understand in the mind, I just like drop somehow. How's everything? I try to... okay, it's okay. It's just now what I seem to say is just this love, you know, for the Master and to see how it's the only one that can exist. And maybe to be honest, sometimes some spiritual stuff that is coming is... because I see the Guru's form, or I see your physical form, maybe this is a little bit of confusion in a way. Because it's this tendency to forget maybe sometimes who is really the Master and that it is not a form, you know? And it is this thing, you know, to like to be seen or to present myself in front of the Master.

Yes, but some of that is actually quite natural. So to want to be seen or just come up in front of that outward representation of the Master, it's natural. You don't have to feel guilty or bad about it. It's okay. But do you find yourself like strategizing or making tactics about how to make that happen, or it's just naturally like that?

Not so much, but yes, maybe sometimes there is a tendency like... and it's not beautiful, you know? Because it comes with that one that wants to be the only one who gets the truth or some stupid stuff which I'm not proud about. This, maybe it's a little bit, yes.

So now let's really look at this because this is a common one. Sometimes I jokingly say that everyone in the Sangha is okay if nobody is getting it. Okay, nobody's getting it. But the minute it feels like I'm pointing to someone and I'm sort of saying that you're really getting it, that can feel like, 'Oh, why is it not me? You know, I should be the one and I'm the one that is getting it.' Now what you said is quite interesting because you said not only is that play there, you see... so sometimes I call this the one-two punch from the mind. Okay, this is the one-two punch, means it's a combination.

So first it produces the thought saying, 'I'm the special one, I'm getting it,' you see? And this other one, you see, 'Father doesn't really know how they are when they're not in satsang,' you see? So he's just confused and you know, some attacking thing can happen like that. But then what happens is that you say that 'I'm not proud about it.' So that is the two-punch, you see, from the mind itself. You're saying that 'But you should not be thinking like this,' you see? Which is also a thought. In fact, what can happen many times is the first one can be lighter, but the second one, which is the guilty thought—the idea that you are guilty or you're doing something wrong—that can be more troublesome.

So you be the one that is free right now. Be the only one that is free right now. Don't be blind about it. Let me meet the free one. What would the enlightened Sylvia do? How would two sages meet? And so in that moment that you're empty, in that moment that your notion lives, in that moment you are a sage. That is the only freedom. And every moment that you are empty, you...

The second one, which is the guilty thought—the idea that you are guilty or you're doing something wrong—that can be more troublesome. So, you be the one that is free right now. Be the only one that is free right now. Don't be blind about it. Let me meet the free one. What would the enlightened Sylvia do? How would two sages meet? And so, in that moment that you're empty, in that moment that your notion dies, in that moment you are a sage. That is the only freedom. And every moment that you are empty, you're free. You're as sage-like as the greatest sage. So, that which we take to be like a constant certificate actually is only moment to moment. Now, freedom is only moment to moment. Tell me more. Tell me something else. I feel like there's something.

Yeah, yeah. It's this thing, yeah, to not spoil the moment somehow. But there are some things maybe I should be honest about. And today, if I have this opportunity in front of you, this neediness maybe for the... like resistance to... I don't know if somehow like an invention, like I should let go with the physical relationship with the master, like one or two, one me and like some...

Yeah, like there's a desire for like a special relationship with an external form of the master because it will confirm a sort of specialness. Is that how you are conveying it?

Yeah, exactly.

Don't worry. Don't worry about this at all because the mind will make these kind of fantastical notions. And it is very common for this kind of idea to come, especially because you experience a love which is... which we don't have a construct for, you see. So, because when we have a love which we don't have a construct for, the mind wants to put it in a construct. That's why in India, it's very common to say that the master is the father, it is the mother, it is the best friend, it is the brother—all of these things. So basically, the idea is that, of course, you feel that belongingness and all of those things, but you cannot categorize this relationship in any construct, you see. And the great thing with the master is that the master will not buy into any of these notions, you see, because they are empty of these notions. So, you are in a way safe in that. And it's good integrity, it's good honesty to expose that, you see. It's good honesty to expose that. So that's very, very good. But I want to also ask you: how do you know that you have this? Is it not a trap that your mind is setting?

Yes, yes. But I realized what is that... it's somehow like a... for example, it's some way of being, some attitude more than something outside which, you know, it's projecting of this on this relationship somehow. And yeah, it's a way of being, like it's coming like a memory. And it's very easy to be in that mode of what's...

Yes, but how do you know this? How do you know that this is not the thief that is providing the wrong address of the thief? Is it intuitive insight? Because the intuitive insight you can take to be true, and there is nothing else you need to take to be true. So, what is the source of these conclusions? Are they intuitive?

No. Yeah, you're sounding a bit... in confusing. Let me zoom into your image. Okay. And it's now separate entity here. It's no...

Are you asking or are you sharing?

No, I... yeah, it's no, I'm not asking this. I'm not asking. But I saw now, like in your light, exposing that when it's a little bit in like... and I'm maybe nothing like satsang or the... like when it's a little bit of, yeah, identity with the person, when it's a little bit, it's very hard for that one to sustain this like...

Yes, my question was: how do you know this? Because the problems that we need to solve or the improvements that we need to make must be the right ones. And what is the source of knowledge which can tell us the real truth about what we need to do? How do you know that it is not your mind that is selling you the ticket to the next ride, to the next merry-go-round? Do you feel like it is a little bit of a struggle to live intuitively, or it's easy? It's beautiful.

Yes, like I just... I feel I just discovered how beautiful it is to... yeah. But yeah, you asked how do you know? I don't know actually, I don't know. But yeah, it's come like a fascination for like Sylvia, or you know, like... and yeah, it's a fascinating plant with it. Fascination for India.

Okay, let's try an experiment together with me, you know. So, are you aware now?

Yeah, yes.

What is the source of knowledge with which you recognize that? Is it a feeling? Is it a sensation? Is it a thought? Is it a perception?

Yeah, it's well, it's in what is seeing. It's not seeing and yes, it's just in it. Yes, I can feel... yeah, I can feel in my body as a perception, but it's not. So the one who... yeah, seeing, yes.

Who is the one? That one is who? The one that is witnessing or the one that is aware? Who is that one?

A child of God.

I'll go with that, the child of God. So what quality does it have? What attribute does it have? Should we start again? Who is aware of the perception of this hand? Who is aware of the perception of this hand? Is it you or no?

It's you, but can that you also be perceived? Okay, I know I don't find... cannot be good. Yeah, no, I can't. No, no.

What does it depend on? What is the difference? Like, I am in the body can be like this beautiful, beautiful feeling, like a being. Yes, that can be perceived. But when I look to your hand, it's not two, it's just... yeah, let's see, seeing, yes. And that which is aware of this perception, we also call it 'I'. Yeah, I am aware of the perception. Is it you or is it somebody else?

When I say me and I... so I'm not so, because immediately it's like... it's like a little bit stained. Maybe I'm inventing this, but yes.

Don't complicate at all. You are in a coffee shop, you see. In a coffee shop, coffee... you would not say, hey, somebody says, 'Do you want a coffee or not?' 'I don't know.' Yeah, like, who's aware of the perception of this hand? Who is it? You know? Yes, yes. But this 'you' that is aware, that itself cannot be perceived, no? Whatever can be perceived, you may say, 'I perceive like the presence of being,' which is like a vibration, a subtle vibration, you see. But even that, you are aware of the presence and absence of being both. You are aware of that. It is you that is aware. But this you that is aware itself can never be perceived. Yes. Now, from where you recognize this truth about yourselves, you can recognize everything. All truths that can be known are known there. We may struggle with that sometimes because those truths are not expressed, or our mind cannot fathom them, or our mouth doesn't say them. So it feels like 'I don't know,' but it is not true. Are you going too far?

I... attention is a little bit like... yes, yeah.

What is happening? Are you a bit sleepy or tired or something? Or what happened? It's not a crime if you are.

The attention here is like sometimes not so great, maybe, I don't know.

Yeah, but that's fine. Yeah, don't have to worry about attention being constant or something like this. We started with the question: what is confusing for you? So now, at this point, is anything confusing?

I don't feel that something is really confusing. Like, on the level of the mind, as I said, maybe a lot of things can seem confusing. But I also, like, I thank you because you called me, because I feel it's something like I finished something that I have to offer up. I don't know.

I want to give you one important tip now, a few actually. So the first one is just let go of all mental fantasies. They will not get you anywhere. They will not help you in any way. So just recognize them as mental fantasies and just let them go. Don't give them any value at all. That's the first thing. Second thing is that when the mind says that you have this problem, you see, it says that this is the problem that you have, recognize that the thief is giving you the wrong address. It is not giving us the right address. What it is pointing to, what the thought is pointing to, is not the problem. It is the identity which is inherent in the thought. If you believe it, that is the only problem, you see. So don't trust the mind's judgments about what is wrong or what is right. None of that. Don't worry about that. And without that, what will be apparent? What is apparent is only intuitive insight, and you can live like that. You can just live from there. You don't have to resolve, you don't have to fix anything. There are no complications.

If I must take a... like, there is a lot of fear coming in these days.

Yes. How do you experience the fear? Just the perception of the sensation? Is that what you mean? Like that physical...

More, yeah, it's like that perception.

Perception, yes. And does it come along with the message, some messages, or empty of these messages?

Like consciousness, yes. Yeah, sometimes with the thought.

So what is the theme of that thought usually? What is the topic? Because the thought will try to explain the presence of a perception, you see. The thought will try to explain the presence of a perception. So if there is this sort of vibration being experienced, then it will say, 'This is the fear and it is because of something.' So what is the cause it is trying to convince you about?

It's more like an idea that... like it's some ideas trying to transform this vastness, beautiful love, in a place which is like... it's one who is lost there.

You're like, you are totally alone now. Even the master is not with you. That you are totally lost. It is trying to convert that which is so unfathomably beautiful, it is trying to convert that into a terrible sort of lonely, alone place. So don't fall for that trick. It's completely abuse of Consciousness too. And you are recognizing already. To recognize that it is a trick that the mind is playing, so don't fall for it. Okay, last question I want to ask you: if you had one wish, what would it be? Your highest wish. What is it that you truly want in your heart more than anything else?

It's God. God. God. Very good, very good, very good. But yeah, I don't know if I have to mention, but when you... like Guruji asked me these questions once too, and it was very clear that it's God. And now when you ask, yeah, maybe like I saw that... I saw that what two answers, like God, yeah, from my two, but some little bit for the word and some fantasies.

Don't fall for any fantasies. No fantasies have ever helped anyone. They just cause suffering. They seem very exciting initially, but actually it is just going to cause trouble in your life. So just drop them right away. If you trust my words, just drop them right away. Don't give them any value because it's not going to help you at all. Anything that stands in the way or seems to stand in the way for what you truly long for in your heart—and your heart knows the answer, you see, it knows the answer—so just be ruthless. Just chop it down. Yes, chop it. Nothing in the world is any substitute for the presence of God. Nothing. Whatever your mind may be saying, this, that—it's nothing at all. So sometimes it can sound very strong to hear this, but this is the best medicine. The best medicine. Don't get distracted at all by the mind's adventures.

Maybe it's so fun that... okay, please keep me full of blessings.

It is so. It is. Don't let me settle for anything... anything with you. It's reminding me, one child once said to me that... like you said in the beginning of our conversation that you want to be the special one or the first one. Now, if I was to ask you in your heart, would you want all the brothers and sisters of this world to get to God and then you go last, or would you really want to be the first one and the only one? What does your heart say?

Of course, I want to... like, I want everyone to... you want everyone to get to know you and God came to me and said, 'You see, Ananta, you have the choice. Either the whole world can become free...'

In the beginning of a conversation, you want to be the special one or the first one. Now, if I was to ask you in your heart, would you want all the brothers and sisters of this world to get to God and then you go last, or would you really want to be the first one and the only one? What does your heart say?

Of course, I want everyone to get to know... you and God came to me and said, you see, Ananta, you have the choice: either the whole world can become free before you, but they will become free and you wait your turn—you will be the seven billionth one, excuse me—or you'll be the first one and only one. It's not a choice at all. It's obvious. May this truth be available to everyone, everyone.

Can we go to Pablo? Pablo first, and then hold on, probably overlaid Giorgio to come with you. Yes, hi. Hello, my dear. Hello, Father.

Hello, my dear. I'm just gonna go, Pablo, so that I don't have to interrupt you while you speak. Is that okay? Yes, yes. How would this work? You'll do like... he will speak and I'll translate after he speaks. But then when you speak, I don't have to... you can just speak continuously and I won't interrupt you. I will just mute my microphone and I will speak to him here on the phone so that everyone can just... I got all of that. Thank you, Master, for having helped me so much and helping me so much.

I have been staying in the 'I Am' as much as I can. I feel the space and the grace of God. I feel that everything is beautiful and arranged by God, and even so, I keep looking for Him. That's it. That's the problem.

No, no, no, no, no. I don't know how to say it. Some words are coming for this part of it, so we can start with that. Perfect. So you say that 'I stay in the I Am.' Yes, I do this, I see this, and then I'm still searching for God. Have you searched for this 'I' that is searching for God? Who is that one?

I am looking for the seeker, but it's still me. But I'm still the seeker. You see that there is a seeker, and that's what... what are you saying? Expand on that.

It is as if there were something that kept vibrating and searching.

You have to not go with any mental fantasy. Go to that which tells you the truth. What is that?

It's the Consciousness. It's the space where I am. But yes, I see a confusion. Is the confusion or the distress? It kind of takes me out and it doesn't take me out.

So both these opposites, you see, are just in the mind. Don't fall for any of these tricks. Who is witnessing the sound of these words?

Consciousness.

What does it look like?

Quiet. Beautiful. God.

Okay. What is that which is beyond even this, that is aware of the presence of God?

I cannot come that far. I cannot come that far.

How do you know?

Because the mind keeps talking and keeps saying that I am not there.

If you believe what the mind is saying, you will. However, from everything that I am saying and because of how lost I am, I feel that life is more quiet and more spacious, and I feel the silence.

Okay. That which is aware of everything perceived... you say, 'I see the space, I see the quietness, the beauty.' That which sees all of this, what quality does it have? It is the silence where everything speaks, and the stress is there, the universe is there. What is the color of this witness? What is the shape?

It's shapeless and it's colorless.

Then how do you see it?

Because I am that. So, the mind comes back because you are that. How does it help you in seeing it? Can you repeat the question? Reformulate the question.

Yes. That which is aware of perceptions... I asked, then how do you see it? You said, 'Because I am it.' So I am asking, so what if you are it? How does it help you recognize? I don't think I understand also the last question. Let's spend a minute in English on this. You see, very often because in Advaita and because many Masters say like that, that a knife cannot cut a knife, the eye cannot see an eye, so then we feel like the right answer is 'I am it,' you see? No. But recognition is possible. Self-knowledge is possible.

So just from what you gathered, you say that to him and then we'll continue. I don't think I fully understand what you're saying. Like, how does that help you recognize? What you're saying is that he's already seen that. This is what I gathered from what he's saying. Yeah. So, and then you ask, then if you are that... yeah. So, many times 'I am that already' and 'that's why I don't need to see it' can become the defense against the actual recognition. Okay. Actually pointing us to... you can translate... is that the discovery of what you are will be beyond perception, will be beyond thinking, but it does not mean that it is impossible, because that is what the sages have discovered about themselves. So it's the point of coming to satsang. You will discover this new way of seeing which has actually always been there, but we seem to have forgotten in the world. So if you say 'I know because I am it,' it is just an avoidance of the actual insight.

So how do you know that you are aware of the perception of these two voices that are speaking to you?

Because I am the silence and I recognize it. I see it and I am thankful for it.

With which eyes do you see it?

With existence.

And with which eyes do you see existence? And yet you can experience the vibration, the primal vibration of being, primordial being. Yes. And yet you are beyond even that, because you are aware of it. It is not aware of you. Nice. Yes. Okay. Yes. But even in Spanish, I can hear the bird already. Is the attention that mixes with thoughts, is it the same as the 'I Am'?

Forget about the attention. You don't need attention to make this discovery. Neither of those you are.

So it's pure existence.

If you mean by existence that which wakes up when you wake up, then it is beyond even that existence.

What I mean is I am asleep and I still exist. That's what I meant.

Okay. This is the question: what is the heart saying now?

I'm confused.

The heart is saying... can you recognize the heart? I recognize the pure being. Yes. See that in the absence of the mind, that with which you recognize the being is the heart. There is no duality there between heart and being. Whose voice is this? You cannot make any progress on this till you keep trying to solve the mind's problems. Beyond the head, what problem do you have?

None.

No problem. Can we not live like this? Yes. But I feel like I want to say yes. It transcends every language, like always. You must recognize that the head is the trickster. It is not helping you. It is not providing the right questions for you to become free. Nonetheless, it is just causing diversion, even if it sounds spiritual. Especially when it sounds spiritual, because the worst ego is the spiritual ego. What is apparent without your head? What is missing? I feel the pain of not asking. Just now I was feeling everything like, 'Wow, everything's sacred and beautiful,' and now I'm feeling like I'm in a no-way alley or something like that.

Are you going to dance to the tunes of your feelings? No. I will remain quiet. Everything that you perceive comes and goes. Don't attach to any state. Don't make conclusions about yourselves based on which states are coming, because they will go. It will feel like a roller coaster. Don't judge what your state is. Can we live like this? Where will you go for the answer? From the heart. From what is. Yes. See, how will you know that it is? Yes, that's very good. Then it is recognized that you are from that place. It is the heart. And it doesn't matter what happens with the world. For some time, don't worry about the world. Leave that to God. He's doing a good job. I trust you. My full love, my full blessings for you to live headlessly.

Thank you, Master. Well, thank you both. Thank you so much. Thank you, Father. Thank you. I raised my hand before, but I think I don't know what I wanted to say, just to share the love. Father, a question came for you a few days ago. I don't know if it's the right moment to ask, but I'm gonna ask anyway because I don't know when I'll get another chance to speak. And he just said 'no conclusion,' so maybe even this is a conclusion. So okay, don't conclude that. Ask.

I decided to ask you for your permission to just completely let go of the spiritual mind fully, fully. Anything that comes first from the spiritual mind when I'm not in satsang, when I'm just in life doing whatever, just anything that comes that, you know, is disguised as the Master or even the highest thought pointing... it just, I don't know, at that moment it occurs to me that I can throw it completely, the whole thing away. And I wanted to ask for your permission if it's okay.

Full permission, full blessing in time for this. Because the graduation ceremony of the spiritual mind is the spiritual ego. You have my full permission to not graduate. In fact, I encourage you not to graduate. Yes, very good to spot it. It is very important because it can be very tricky, because it sounds like the words of satsang, but it is this mental oppression in nice words. And it's what takes most of the mind space and especially the attention, of course. And it's like you said, it's the biggest ego, it's a spiritual one. And all these... I mean, we have too much spiritual knowledge. And I feel that it's fine if I'm reading scripture or if I'm listening to you, then I can take those words into the heart. But otherwise, other than that, when I'm just moving in life, maybe I can just completely, completely forget about it and completely... yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Permission, full blessing. Thank you. I love you. Thank you. Love you too. Thank you. Okay, for the last, let's get darshan of the room where Gopala is. Oh, it's 8:30 already. It's an idea. Can you unmute? No, not able to unmute. Okay. How are you both? Good? Enjoying Peru? I'm gazing at... I mean, sorry... chair. Yes, I can see that. Yes, yes. And there's a lot of stars and we're really, really very happy here. But we are missing satsang, like I'm missing a lot. Don't worry. Yeah, but it's quite warm, but we enjoy everything here. Enjoy the great-grandfather's house. And we had lunch. Oh, nice. Yeah, she said to come and meet you. Okay, yeah, soon. And I met in the afternoon. My love is here again. And yes, I will have to take Ava. Yes, yes. Yeah, she asked me with who I came. I told her I came with my girlfriend. And so she was doing seva at the animal shelter. Yes. And so we are going to meet soon. So much love. It's a bit strange. So much love to everyone. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you again. Okay, let's hear this.

Thank you all so much for being in satsang today.