Living in God’s Light, God’s Love, Everyday - 19th December 2025

So, what is inherent in that is that our life is not meant to be lived in His presence. Our life is only meant to be ended in His presence. Now, has God made that restriction that you can't be with Me right now when you're young? Does that mean that you have to go to a cave and become a sadhu? It doesn't mean that. You can be with Him no matter what is unfolding in the outer life. Whether you have a householder life or you have a sadhu life, it is possible to run this life by His will, by His grace, by remaining in His presence. What can go wrong if we are in His presence?

And His presence, is it at the exclusion of something in this world? It's not at the exclusion of that, but it is at the exclusion of one thing. What is that? Of the ego. It is the 'me.' Huh? So what does this mean? Does that mean that we have to come to the end of this life to be at the end of this 'me'? It is just the idea that I am somebody, that I am something. And pride is the idea that I am somebody special. It is not very far. Not only am I somebody, I am somebody special. So hold on to that pride and try to meet God. God will seem very distant and far away, and all our idea of God will just be in the mind. 'Uh, He's everywhere, I know.'

One old man came to see me one time. He was insistent that he wants to see me. So his daughter told me, 'Father, will you please make some time to meet my father? He doesn't want to come in full Satsang. He wants to meet one-on-one.' And I rarely meet one-on-one because I feel like everything is useful for everyone. But in this case, I agreed because he's quite old. So I said maybe he gets tired sitting with everyone. I felt like he'll want to say, 'I'm coming to the end of my life soon. Can you tell me the way that I can meet God?'

I was trying to steer the conversation in that direction. He said, 'No, no, no, no. Don't talk to me about that. I met God long back.' You see, 'I'm just here because I feel like we can be very good friends.' So I said, 'Tell me about that. Tell me about that when you met God.' He said something, something, something. And then I saw Hanuman Ji is here. So he said, 'Then after that, then I just live my life.' That's like saying, 'I met the perfect soulmate, huh? And then I just went about in my life.' So if you met God when you're so young, why didn't you spend your life with Him? Then he said, 'No, no, then I got busy with my life and then, you know, I had a lot of police cases also against me and I was involved in some crime stories and things.' So it went in a completely different direction, you see.

But every time I would try to approach the topic of God, it would be like, 'Haha, oh, you see.' Now the problem is that because we have read Amarkatha or these stories we've read, we feel like God will come like that, do one darshan, pass through, and then go away. That is the idea of meeting God. You see, like a one-time event, not a lifelong relationship. You see, and that is the problem with our idea of enlightenment, awakening, living like a sage, freedom. We think that because something happened with Ananta in 2009, he is now enlightened or awakened or something like that. You see, it has nothing to do with that. Well, maybe not nothing, but you can have an awakening experience. You see, by God's grace alone you can have an awakening experience, but that doesn't mean that that is a guarantee of freedom, you see, to be free of Maya.

Ravana did so much tapasya, then Lord Shiva himself came to him, you see. Then he should have been free. He continued after that, isn't it? But it's not like that. Maya can catch us at any time. All the greatest sages have been trapped by Maya at some time or the other. You see, all the stories are full of that. Somebody got very angry. Somebody got very tempted by lust. Somebody got very concerned about their wealth. You see, somebody got very concerned about their body. All of these things can happen to everyone. You see, and if you have the idea already that 'I am already done, nothing is needed,' then you will not even look at how to change that situation because you feel like you've already climbed the mountain. What further is there for me to go? So remember that no matter what your past spiritual experience has been, our life is about living in His light, in His love every day. Every day. Right. Yeah.

I'm really struggling to hear you, Father, now. Like, I'm just feeling so... even the singing, no, I couldn't... like that same, same, the whole fear energy, you know, like, just has been really fighting today. I couldn't sing, like, my throat was dry and I'm struggling to hear you. Like, I feel like my whole system is just so... and because you're talking of this, I just want... like, I'm asking myself, 'Can I be with God now?' So I want your help, Father. Like, even talking is feeling... I feel so woozy right now, Father. I just, I just need that help.

The trickery of Maya is that in spite of whatever may have happened with us, you see. So, I don't know if you want to share or you want me to share, you want Shamik to share that she's really been troubled by this deep fatigue for so many years, no? And that day when I was talking to her, she was in a situation where she felt like, 'I can't speak anything at all and my body is just not moving.' And we just sat together and we just did a little bit of inquiring into what witnesses all of that, who is really here, and something just transformed. You see, Shamik also wrote to me saying, 'What did you do?' So I said, 'Come thrice a week, have you come and find out.'

So, so what happens is that God's love, God's light can really be the antidote to Maya. But many times we put ourselves in a... because of the hypnosis of Maya, we put ourselves in a box where we feel like God is distant from me and my body's struggles are closer, you see. And then the fear starts coming that, 'What if this now doesn't go? What if I have to live like this? What if God is not helping me?' You see, 'What if my teacher is not interested?' All of these negative thoughts can come in and hypnotize us more and more, you see. So, and it creates doubt that, 'Did it just happen like that?' But it can't just happen like that.

None of that is playing, actually. None of that is playing. It's not... I'm not tired. But it's like we spoke that day. It's just these deep-rooted conditions that I don't... I was telling Ishana, I don't know how to even... so I've been fighting. I've not given my way. Even in the cab, you know, I just let... but there's something, I don't know what I'm... I was telling, I'm fighting. I don't know what I'm fighting. What are the thoughts? What is the exact condition? I don't know. And it started as soon as I woke up in the morning. I think some health something must have triggered it. And I noticed that. And I have... but this whole 'woo-woo' thing that I always talk about, you know, like, that is just here. Like, my brain seems... I'm not scared of getting tired so much. I'm not doubting because I clearly saw what I saw that day and I don't know how it'll be tomorrow. I'm just saying, like, but it's just this inability to be in Satsang like...

What will not change tomorrow no matter what happens?

I know the right answer. I don't want to say it. I don't want to say the right answer.

We have to see it moment to moment instead of going with the mind's response to that. We all know the right answer is God's presence will still be here, or the reality of myself will still be here, or my Atma will still be here. We all know these right answers, no? But we have to see this in this moment. And when we see it in this moment, we see that it is unchanging and it can never leave. You see, now to the mind it all sounds like... like you are calling Maya's hypnosis 'woo-woo.' To the mind, everything I am saying will sound like 'woo-woo.' 'Okay, there's some delusion,' you see. So we call Maya delusion. In Maya, we call God's presence a delusion. You see? So you pick your delusion—which is the delusion? Mhm.

So also don't let the fact that the mind knows the right answer stop you from having the right answer. You see, it doesn't mean that our answer has to be the opposite. You see, so God will be here with us and although the body sensations may seem very intimate, they cannot be before God.

Father, I think those... I said that day also, like, those sometimes bring me into more fear, like the way it starts feeling. I don't know which is the chicken and the egg. I really don't know what triggers it, how I go there. I don't know. But right now I can say God is here.

Very good. So in whatever little experience I have, I will tell you that there is only one way to suffer and it is not in the appearance of anything. We may feel like we suffer because things come in our lives, you see, but we can't suffer no matter what is coming in front of us unless, you see, unless we take ourselves to be this small bundle of flesh and blood. And we only can take ourselves to be this small bundle of flesh and blood when... the mind hates hearing that because it will always say, 'I am not the thief. I am very innocent. Today I promise you I'm not doing anything. It is the sensations which are bothering you. It is your body which is bothering you. It is the pain. It is the events in your life. You see, it's your children, it's your wife, it's your husband. Those things are bothering you.' You see, but remember that we only get bothered by one thing which is right here: the top story, big story, the top story of our body.

The mind hates hearing that because it will always say, 'I am not the thief. I am very innocent. Today I promise you I'm not doing anything.' It is the sensations which are bothering you. It is your body which is bothering you. It is the pain. It is the events in your life. You see, it's your children, it's your wife, it's your husband. Those things are bothering you. You see, but remember that we only get bothered by one thing which is right here. The top story, big story, the top story of our body. So we have to fall into the center, into the place of loving God, into the place of self-realization, self-recognition.

See, so it's again about the same thing that we all say, 'Where is God?' He is with us. When is He with us? Always. You see? But if He was in the pratyaksh holding our hand and sitting, then we would be making a movie about your life. No. If Ram Ji was holding your hand and sitting throughout your life, then there would be television cameras and movie cameras shooting every moment of your life. You see, so then is it not true that He is with us? He's always with us. But I leave or I forget that He is with us, which is the same as leaving.

So, she was saying last time that this is sounding like a very Radha spirituality. Huh? It is fine. It's more important to have honest conversation than you just agreeing with everything I'm saying. No, but she was saying that what you sounding sounds too like Radha spirituality, which is a term I've only used so often, you see. So no, but the intention is not to get into any like just blind faith like andhvishwas, you see. The intention is just if you feel like you're going to fall because you're flying up in the air, you feel like you're going to fall and if somebody tells you, 'No, see, you're well supported by the ground, you're not floating,' you see, then 'No, but I'm going to...' But you are on the ground. You see? Yeah. Then is that a Radha groundity? You see?

And the thing is that nobody says, 'No, this is not true.' We only say, 'Yes, it is true.' But you see, only few will have the courage like Shiv took that day and said, 'But is He really?' You see, 'But is He really?' And that is for us to find out. You see, so either hot or cold is better than lukewarm. Jesus said, you see, either hot or cold is better than lukewarm. Either you fight and say, 'No, what you're saying sounds like rubbish to me,' or you say, 'What you're saying really resonates deeply in my heart.' But this middle ground of, 'Ha, you know, in satsang it sounds so true, but after satsang then you know I forget,' you know, this kind of... because you're not being informed of some thing you can just so easily forget. No.

If you were told—I don't know, please, I really don't know where these examples come from—but if you were told in satsang today, 'Ramdas, your grandfather was the king of my soul and here are the records,' huh, you were told, will you say, 'Ah, it's okay for now but once I leave here I'll forget'? No, you won't forget. No, see? Huh? Yeah. Like, 'Where is my kingdom? I have to inherit it.' You see, so we are not going to forget it. So somewhere we don't hear it like a concrete reality that God is with us. He is living here. His light, His presence, His knowledge is all here for us. You see, so how is that forgotten so easily?

What I say might sound lukewarm, but I'm just saying that His presence, when it is there, it is in all the grandeur and all the... it's quite overwhelming. At the same time, it's very subtle. It's so subtle that at a gross level it is not there. Only if I am able to have that perception of subtlety, then only it is there. Somewhere my lukewarm nature is that I am not able to maintain that attention to the subtle aspect of which is something continuous in life. That is my problem, I feel like.

Thank you. Very good. Very good. That is all our problem. That is all our problem is that it's not... it's even more difficult than gross and subtle. It is that the heart instrument is not the same as the instrument of the senses and the instrument of thinking. You see, so sometimes by His grace the outpouring of the heart in the form of love or bliss or peace can be felt by the other instrument, you see. So then we feel that, 'Ah yes, this is God's presence,' you see, but we still... so instead of using that as a fragrance to go deeper, then we feel like, 'Oh, that is God's presence.' You see, now the most challenging part about satsang is to give up on the earlier modes of knowledge and start to rely on the new mode of knowledge.

You see, you see now where will you know the hukum? What is God's will? He said think and think as much as you want, you won't get it. Do whatever smartness you want, you won't get it. Feel as much emotion, devotion, whatever you want, you won't get it. You see, then I feel like the second last words is like the frustrated disciples saying, 'Then how will I get it?' You see, how will I get it? So it is 'Hukum rajai chalna,' which means stay in, follow God's will, and that is the path in which you will get it.

Now Nanak, such a great sage, was he lost? Did he not know that everything happens in God's will? Yeah. So why he said that we must follow? Did he not know? So modern day Radhan should have spoken to him. No, gone like Uddhav Ji talking to Radha Ji and said, 'Don't you know you're leading thousands of people, you see, they all call you guru and you're saying this is your highest pointing? Don't you know everything only happens by God's will?' You see, so that in this way in our modern mind we miss the point. You see, the point is that when you meet Him in your heart then you will know His will because He will not force us to love Him because a forced love is not love.

But it's simple. No. If Shamba says to me, 'Father, for the last one month, I've been doing some work, some job, and I've got salary to do.' So, I say, 'What did you do in your job, my child?' You see, 'I just did whatever I wanted to.' No. So I said, 'Why did you... but what was the job?' You see, 'I don't know, I never met my boss.' You see, so our idea of living in God's will is not never meeting the boss, just thinking everything is the boss only, you see, like that. So is it possible to meet the boss? It is possible. Is it easy? For most of us, it is not easy. You see, because we feel that the truth will be acquired through our senses and through the concepts in our head.

So once we come to the dispassion like Ram Ji's dispassion in the first chapter of Yoga Vasistha or Nachiketa's dispassion, then he was talking to Yamraj. Yamraj said, 'You take palaces, you take princesses, you take servants, you take everything that you could ever want.' He says, 'No, these things will come... is there any of these which is beyond your reach, beyond the reach of death?' He said, 'No, everything has to that.' You see, 'Then I'm not interested in that.' You see, 'Then I'm not interested in that.' So once we come to that, that God, God, God, and whatever God's will, whatever He makes me do, I am available to Him.

Or we say, 'I will not pick up any false identification, I will find out who I am.' You see, both the path of Jnana and the path of Bhakti lead to the same place. You see, for both you have to leave your head and you have to leave your senses. Not leave in the sense that you don't have to die. You have to leave in the sense not be attached to what they are bringing to you. You see, not give yourself to what is being brought in Maya. You see, give yourself only to God. Give yourself only to the highest reality of who you are. Then the gross nature of the senses and the gross nature of our thoughts will not be so attractive to us.

You see, what you want the most, that you will get. In the sense that if you want God the most, you will get. If you say, 'I want God but also you know I love my girlfriend, I want to be with her,' then both. If you say only money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money, then your focus only will be on that, you'll make it, you see. But one thing that will go in the whole process either way is time. It's time. So don't get into this fallacy of 'I can leave God till the end.' If everything else needs time, why do we presume that to get rid of all our false conditioning, our attachments, our desires, our pride, our egotism in every way, and then to live a life empty of me, to live in God—why do we feel like that process is just going to happen just like that? That is a mistaken idea, especially in modern spirituality. Am I saying it's too late? No. Not too late. Am I saying tomorrow will be too late? Yes, tomorrow will be too late.

What you said, you know, that whatever you want you get. But I'm just... when I'm looking at my life, whenever I am asking for God plus something, that does not work out very well for me.

Yeah.

And that's I feel like more like a clear signal from Him.

Yes. You have a clear signal. Follow. Like, it works for some time but it ultimately never works. See that? Then it's clear for you.

So Father, I realize like I was speaking to Raas yesterday. He asked me, 'How much time of the day are you in the mind?' 95%, but I know it's around 99%. So, and he was saying, 'I've been longer in satsang. I've been in satsang longer.' Yes. Yes. Maybe I'm not, like you were saying, hearing what is being said. Like maybe I'm not... I then reflected upon it, it's like, Father, like you're saying, what do I really want? So it's been... now I want, I've been trying to change this because I feel now there's no other way. I have to, I have to want God more than anything else.

Why?

If I give you an example, there was a time where I was like desperate to get married etc. and all that. So I'm seeing that is not like the ultimate thing, I'm seeing. And I've seen Ma, how she lives, and I hear examples. She's like, right, I know she's in... she's full of love and she's struggling so much, but she's not complained at all and she has so much joy. And I see you and I know this is the right way to be and live. And I see in my office somebody who, Hindu, Muslim and all, they were talking about all that and it does not feel good. It's like in a way hurtful how it's going. I sense it's all very dark and very, very dark.

You heard them say about what?

The Hindu-Muslim something, India-Pakistan something. They were talking about that this person did something, all that. I felt very bad to be in that.

That's the easiest spirituality. Sorry, we'll just break on that for a moment. That's the easiest spirituality, you see, that 'I don't need to do anything because I'm already better than you.' So prideful spirituality makes you... who said, Father Richard Rohr? That the quickest way we use to feel better about ourselves is point out that somebody is worse off. You see, that's why everybody wants to play that game and say, 'Oh, we are better off because we are this.' Now within the Hindus also there'll be so much, 'We are this.' All this is avoidance of a true spirituality. This quick-fix sort of solution which is all rubbish. So yes, thank you.

Thank you for pointing that out, Father. I like it. I know clear, I really... they're not happy. They're not happy. They're not at peace. They don't have... even if they want to love, they're not able to. I don't want to be like that. I want to be like you and I want to... that if you ask me what is what that I really want, I want to be with like around me. The thing is, Father, exactly because there are a lot... God is here. I was in my heart, I started trying to do the contemplation. I was trying like... I like singing. So I like... it's not like fixed, I'm not able to... I'm praying, I'm just like... I make photo... it's... I feel I'm all over the place so I don't know what...

It's fine, it's fine. We would not sing a bhajan unless it had the power to do something. And that what has the power to do something in our case is different for everyone. So some may prefer bhajan, some may prefer inquiry, some may prefer other types of prayer, contemplation. You see, but where does that lead? You see, now have you met anyone who sings a bhajan? I actually met somebody like that.

I'm praying, I'm just like I'm make photo, it's I feel I'm all over the place so I don't know what—

It's fine, it's fine. We would not sing a bhajan unless it had the power to do something. And that what has the power to do something in our case is different for everyone. So some may prefer bhajan, some may prefer inquiry, some may prefer other types of prayer, contemplation. You see, but where does that lead? You see, now have you met anyone who sings a bhajan? I actually met somebody like that who just sings a bhajan then Krishna, then Rama, then Krishna, something, you see, and then finish. Okay, we don't meet like that because the one who is sharing the bhajan and the one who is listening to the bhajan, between two bhajans, what happens? So we don't immediately—like we can, but we don't feel to immediately start the next thing. No. Where do we go in that interim period? To the mind, that sounds like nothing. To the mind, when our Antahkarana becomes onepointed, our soul becomes onepointed and facing God, because the mind has no access to that space, it seems like that is a waste of time. You see, that's why in the mind's report, you go to Krishna's bhajan session or a satsang bhajan session and somebody says to you, 'So what happened?' So first he sung this, then he sung this, no, then he sung that, then he sung that, right? You see, but this time I noticed your reports were very different. You said that I felt there was great beauty in the silence that happened in between. Some of you made that report and I was very touched by it. You see, because that is where we allow ourselves to meet that which is higher than anything that the world can give us. Yeah.

So it may seem like spiritual people are very unselfish, but it's not true—saying it half-joking. Now somebody offers you—what's your favorite? She's looking at... you want Ma to answer that? Okay. So suppose that is your ultimate favorite. Then somebody says, Zara comes to you, he says, 'Please have this kaju katli,' and you are feeling like, 'No, but I can spend that same time tasting malai cham cham,' then you'll want that. So once you see that the true bliss, the true joy, the true love, the true knowledge is at a higher place than what the world can give you, then you will not exchange it for a smaller thing. You see, so in this way, we just end up looking at that which is higher. You see, now if she's not convinced, if her favorite is kaju katli, you cannot convince her, 'It's not a good exchange for me to eat kaju katli right now. I want malai cham cham.' You see, because for her, the kaju katli is the best. You see, and that's why we don't force anyone to come to satsang. You see, because you force anyone to come to satsang, they are thinking this one is the best, the worldly things are the best, and you are trying to tell them, 'But God is a reality, you can be with Him, that is the best,' you see.

So, and people don't get convinced like that. They have to come to some point in their life where they start becoming open to that higher reality. So now, very good. So you're saying that 'I want my life for God.' Now you know where to find Him. You know where to find Him. The place where you go after a bhajan. Not that it means that during a bhajan you can't find Him. I'm not saying that, you see. But it's very, very apparent to you where you go in sometimes just that few moments. You see, you notice that, isn't it? Close your eyes, then somebody comes and says, 'You know, somehow...' 'Don't disturb me,' you see. What is that? You see, and then they say, 'Okay, but what were you doing? Just wasting time closing your eyes.' Say no. Never disturb anyone like that. You see, we don't know what is happening with us, but somewhere we know. You see, so and that 'disturb' is not like, 'Oh, I was asleep, why are you waking me up?' It's a different quality to it.

So whatever spiritual methods we may have, we come to that place of stillness within ourselves. And in that place of stillness within ourselves, whether you call that contemplation or you call that nididhyasana or you call that self-inquiry or you call that Zen koan or you call that devotional singing, whatever pathway you may call it, it must bring you to that holy place where you are available fully, without any persona, without any masks, to be taken by God. When we offer ourselves, we offer every faculty that we have to God in this way, then God will fill up our hearts with love, which is not necessarily an outer felt love. Even the silence in the heart feels like love. It feels like joy. It feels like peace. So that's where you meet Him. You meet Him everywhere. But that is where you meet Him most intimately. You see?

So whatever you're doing, if you're doing bhajan, go there. If you're doing prayer, go there. If you're doing inquiry, go there. Go to that place where your mind doesn't ever want you to go. You see, and there, when you learn to live there, then you also learn to give up on suffering. Because when you want to go there, the mind will attack you with various notions, ideas: 'I have to do this, I have to get that, I better do that. This is happening.' All these things will happen. And you learn to gently let them go. Gently let them come, gently let them go. You see, so when we speak about fighting, we are actually talking about this gently letting the mind go in the full warrior faith in God. You see, it is our faith in God. It is our faith in the truth. It is the faith in the path that allows us to let go of our thoughts. You see, then when it starts to happen in a designated period which you've set aside for prayer, you see, then only then, when you have practiced that, you see, will you be able to exercise that in the world as well.

You see, suppose Ramdas had some more courage and told you, he says to you, 'Sama, I'm going to the Mr. Universe competition tomorrow.' So you will say, 'Have you ever seen the inside of a gym?' You see, won't you say that? You've never seen the inside of a gym and you want to go to Mr. Universe? You see, in the same way, if you've not practiced quietness, stillness, when we have designated prayer time, and we think when our boss is shouting at us or our partner is behaving unreasonable or our children are acting up, then in all those things we'll be able to remain in that—we can't. You see, that's a fallacy. Okay. Now that is why focused prayer every day, focused prayer every day is important. Because if we can't do it when we have designated time and we've tried to cut out all distractions and stay in that, then we will not be able to do it when everything is dancing in front of us. And we've seen, we've all experienced today, I said that from 3:30 to 5:30 I'm only going to pray, and in that time all the nat that has happened in my life... you can't... some of you know with my pet. So it doesn't... Maya doesn't like it, so it wants to distract us, you see. So we must be very grateful when we've had that quiet time without things just going haywire all over the place.

But there's no avoiding that, my child. You have to, whatever the method is, I don't mind, you see. I'm not one of those teachers who says only this method is... I know that what is important is the availability of our soul for the spirit to take. Antahkarana has to be available for the Atma to shine and resonate over there. You see, now if you tell me that this is your reality but you got here by standing on one leg and chanting some obscure mantra, will I hold that against you? I will not. Doesn't matter to me what method gets us there. You see, and I feel like it's time in the world that we stop being so dualistic, especially in non-dualism, we stop being so dualistic about what is the way to God. Every way is a holy way. Every path is a holy path as long as it frees us from the ego and brings us to His light. Which is like... you cannot fill your stomach by reading the menu. You cannot come to God by understanding how to come to God. It may be an important first step. You might want to go to the restaurant, see the menu first, then order. You see, many times in spirituality it happens that if we know the path, we feel like we've come to its end. That's not... I cannot report any end on this path. Every day we have to work on it.

So what method should you use? It's a tricky one because sometimes the mind wants to distract us away from the method which will really be the best for us in that moment. And sometimes we need to... our temperament may be such that we need to one day sing a bhajan, one day do inquiry, one day like that. Only our practice can tell us that. But my advice, you know, is that set a period of time which belongs to God alone. He is never going to keep a distance from us because we don't know something. You see? So suppose that we sincerely want to love Him but we don't know what is the right path. So He's not going to say, 'No, you lose because, you know, you didn't know the right path. You see, you wanted to love Me but too bad, next time.' No, it's not going to be like that. You see, no parent, no beloved can do that to anyone. So let's not presume that God is so unmerciful.

You see, there's this beautiful story of this one who heard the instruction wrong from a sage and said, 'Lord Jesus Christ, don't have mercy on me,' instead of 'Have mercy on me.' And yet his job was done. Whatever that means. You see, so it is not about the preciseness of the method. It is about the sincerity, the humility, the faith that we have. So what is higher? Grandchild of the king of my soul or children of God? You see, but then that information should hit us like that and we should treat it like that. She's wondering what were you hearing online? No, you were here when we talked about that. Yes. Okay. Good. Yeah. Have you heard any sage report that, 'You know, today I had beautiful sadhana and I felt like I had the Darshan of God'? Then somebody says, 'How was it?' 'Okay, take that.' Or, 'I just did neti-neti so much and did the self-inquiry so much, I saw that I am that.' 'How was that?' 'Okay.' You see, so what I'm ranting about or raging about is that if your inheritance is the kingdom of my soul, then why are you worrying about ten rupees in the pocket? In every way, like Nanak Ji said about fish and Jesus said about the birds: a bird doesn't know where the next meal is going to come. A bird just flies and God provides for it and its children in the nest. It doesn't have to work. See, Nanak Ji said about the fish. The fish are swimming in the ocean. They're not saying, 'Let me eat this now and also save up this for tomorrow and do this for this thing.' So for any topic, we don't have to worry because it is not lip service that the Lord of the universe is with us.

Sometimes I know, like in my own path journey, that what you're calling lip service, it plays a part. It's a positive thing till it's known. Lip service has helped, I feel, because that lip service, like you keep on saying... like I remember when there was the 'Brahman Satyam Jagat Mithya.' Okay, now you can't... I mean, when you're very young and you just keep saying 'Brahman Satyam Jagat Mithya,' you have no clue and you're going around in the opposite. Your actions are probably not reflecting much of this. Yeah, but you're saying, you're saying, and you know, 'Oh, God is everywhere, God is everywhere,' but you are so frightened all the time and you're lonely and all of this. But when you go on and on repeating, I feel somehow, somewhere, when the time is right, that that lip service actually reveals itself. I don't know, for me that—

That's very good. It's very good. I can relate to that. All I'm saying is that this is the time.

Yeah. I think what's very dangerous is to, while it's lip service, to not tell others. At least for that, I think it's a bit—

To tell others that it's a lived reality while it's actually lip service, is that what—

Exactly. Or not even till now this is a... but just, you know, sort of hand it out like kind of very casual way because you don't know it, you're just repeating it like a parrot or something.

Good. I can relate to that. All I'm saying is that this is the time.

Yeah. I think it's what's very dangerous is to, when it's while it's lip service, to not tell others. At least for that, I think it's a bit—

To tell others that it's a lived reality while it's actually lip service, is that what—

Exactly. Or not even till now this is a, but just you know, sort of hand it out like kind of very casual way because it's—

You don't know it, you're just repeating it like a parrot or something.

That's because we forget who the true audience is. You think the audience is here and if I just repeat some big words and they all getting impressed, what else can I want? And we forget that the true audience is somewhere else.

So now you know where to go. The rest of what is being said is to inspire, not to make us feel competitive or unworthy or guilty or any of that. So what happens when you stay there is that more and more we'll start to sense a presence like a holy light, like an unperceivable yet most subtle. So we cannot say truly Saguna or truly Nirguna. So in a way that Atma Darshan, that Atma Gyan becomes like a bridge from the experience of the Saguna to the recognition of the Nirguna. So remember, it's not like a light that you see in the world and it's not like the darkness that you see in the world either. Suppose you came from a very bright place into a dark room. It may seem initially that you cannot see anything there, you see? Then after some time you adjust, your eyes adjust to there, and after some time it feels like you can see over there. But if somebody else comes and says, you say, they say, 'But it's unperceivable here.' So as we learn to live in that, the center of our Antahkarana, then that which is beyond phenomenal experience starts to be known intuitively in our hearts. And this may be accompanied by some tastes which are taken by our traditional senses as well. But the true meeting is happening in a place where they cannot go.

So this sense of being, this Atma, this 'I am' then shows us that which is unimaginable and impossible for ourselves to work hard and see. And therefore that realization of the highest reality of Nirguna Brahman must always be taken as a gift from the true Satguru in our hearts. It must never become a personal accomplishment that 'I did that.' If you get into this pride that 'I have seen the reality of Brahman,' you have not seen it. It was shown to you by the grace of the Holy Spirit in your heart. Nobody is the acquirer of the highest insight. The highest insight is graced upon us. Now are you realizing why the teachers said two contradictory seeming things? On one hand they say you must put the effort, you must do your sadhana, you must do like that. On the other hand they'll say if anything happens it happens only by the grace of God. You see, so this is what they're saying: that the true crux of it, the reality of it is only given to me by the grace of God himself, of whom Atma is the meeting point and God himself. But God himself gives himself to us. God can never be taken. Yes.

Thank you. You're saying that if you ask a question like, 'Why did Bodhidharma go to the East?' You see, that's the popular one, being 'What is the sound of one hand clapping?' or 'How did the goose escape the vase?'

So first it wears out the mind-intellect system. You see, in that process what happens? Our pride goes because our pride usually—not usually but always—rests on our pride of knowing, you see? That 'I know this, I know I'm better, I know something.' You see, so our pride goes. With our pride, our ego becomes chopped down quite a bit. It gives us many gifts. And then as we let go of the false modes of knowledge, so what happens? So if somebody said, 'If you walk 100 meters to the right from here, you will meet a Babaji one day who will give you the truth.' So you start. First day you didn't meet, second day you didn't meet, third day you didn't meet, fourth day you didn't meet. Yeah. Depending on how much fervor you had in that process, maybe by the 28th day you say, 'This is not happening. I give up on this process.' Now, versus somebody who knows that I say after 20 days you meant to give up on the process, you will not meet. You see, what is the value in that 20 days? Yeah. You really know you've tried everything with your mind-intellect, you see. And if you're a Zen disciple, then you got the sticks also from the Zen master. 'What is the sound of one hand clapping?' and say, 'Today I have to meet the master. I'll tell him the answer and say blah blah blah blah.' He says, 'No, go like that.'

So then what happens is that you learn to give up on that which seems to be the only mode of knowing. You see? So does that mean there's no answer to 'What is the sound of one hand clapping?' There's no answer to 'Why did Bodhidharma go to the East?' No answer to 'How the goose escapes the vase?' There is an answer, but not in the construct of question-answer that we are used to living in. You see, so the answer to 'Who am I?' will come as a surprise always. You see, now the mind feels like that means there's no answer. No, that's not true. You see, that's not true. There is an answer and it is a very auspicious path to walk and to sincerely ask 'Who am I?' You see? So to wear out is an important part of the process, but you become humble, you become open. A lot of beauty unfolds in that whole thing. Like when I went to my teacher, then by that time I was wiped out, quite wiped out. Like I don't feel like in that, at least in that moment, I don't feel like I was carrying pride because I was just like, you know, 'Whatever, please help, just help.' You come into that. Is it a morose sort of situation? I didn't feel so. You see, it's not like, oh, it's just like—how to put it in words—that openness, that sheer openness, that sheer openness that 'I don't know in which form that help will come. I don't know anything about where this question is going to lead me.' No. But it's very difficult to express or put into words.

So yes, to wear out the seeker is one of the jobs that it does. If you find yourself unable to seek more in your head, that's good. But if we make a conclusion in our head, 'I can't do this anymore,' you see, then that is to seek a joy which is now absent of the seeking. You know what I mean? So many times we have these children, you know, who have a tantrum in Satsang. 'I don't know if I'm cut out for this, I can't do this anymore,' you see. So now what is happening is that that is a seeking of a new kind. 'I will try to seek my happiness elsewhere because this is not working.' But if it truly leads to like an emptiness, 'I'm not grasping anymore,' that's very good. It's very good. And the thing is that this happens like—by saying it, my saying it may inspire it but can't make it happen. You see, it's when you've said sincerely, 'But who am I?' I know all the negation now. I know I'm not the body. I know I'm not the senses. I know I'm not the emotion. I know I'm not my attachments. I know I'm not anything showing up in the world. I know all this in my head. All the negations I know. But who am I? Am I just an inference at the end of all the negation? You see, many in their frustration just come to that point and then they say, 'Okay, then I must be that only. No, if I'm not this, this, then I must be that only.' You see, but that's still in the mind. So allow yourself to even get frustrated, allow all that to be squeezed out of us. Yeah.

So basically you're seeking a solution to the problem in the form of non-seeking, right? Because you'll be happier. You see, now that is still seeking. Seeking happiness by not seeking. Yeah. Is there where—then what's—yes, but are you seeking the truth or the end of the problem? Yeah. Yes, you're pointing to exactly what I'm saying. You see, but what I'm hearing, and I'm happy to be corrected, is that it's just too much. Shanti can be like, 'I'm seeking peace by not seeking.' It's a very popular brand of modern spirituality. And what happens is that—it happened to a couple of children who were following me also—that once you've struggled with that question 'Who am I?' and somebody comes and tells you, 'Brother or sister, you don't have to do any of this, just chill out,' that's music to our ears. You're just, 'Wow, I feel better already.' Isn't it? Imagine that you're just like, 'Who am I?' and somebody says that, it feels like freedom. So that relief from that desire to know who you are can give us a sense of peace. But be wary of this peace, very wary of this sense of peace, because soon you know what does it—like this is like 10 years ago where you didn't want to know who you were and then what happened? You just took it naturally that you were the false one. Then what happened? Then the attachments grew, the grasping grew. You see, you're getting the difference?

So if it brings you to an emptiness where not only am I not now interested in finding out who I am, I'm not interested in applying any label to myself whatsoever. It can seem subtle, but it's a drastic distinction between feeling like a mental relief—like suppose you were told that tomorrow you have to write a trigonometry exam or something like that and somebody says, 'Cancel, cancel, you don't have to inquire.' You see, Bhagavan was wrong? He built a hut for Lakshmana Swamy and Annamalai Swami and said, 'You sit in this hut and only sit and inquire. Your food will be brought to you. Everything will be given to you. I don't want you doing anything but the inquiry.' What did he know? So if you thought your life has become like that, 'I would just sit and inquire,' and somebody comes and says, 'Listen, I'm here to give you the good news. Everything is fine. You are that. You cannot seek your way into that. Forget about it.' But is that relief a fertile ground for identity? Like, 'I thought then what now? Okay, we can go have an ice cream. We can go eat this. We can go watch this movie. We can do whatever.' Why? It is that it's not going anywhere. You see those people after one year, that sense of relief goes in two weeks, if it lasts that long at all. Then after that, no. You're like, 'I don't care. Don't have to worry. I can be that teacher. Try me.' I can see because there's a pathway there to the truth. You see, but it's very, very subtle. Very good. If your notion that 'I will be able to contain the truth in my intellect' or something will show up in my senses for me to find out the reality of who I am—very good. Very good. Now these are territories where you only have to say.

So even when it happened to the other kids, like, it's fine, you could go either way, but just make sure you keep coming to Satsang. You see, what did they do? They made sure they stopped coming to Satsang because it can feel like a relief from this also, pointing at something where we don't know when we're going to get it. You see, somebody said, 'Just relax.' It comes as a relief. Mom, Dad are with you from Bombay? How many days? Seven days. So, how are you finding Bangalore? I can use my half-Sindhiness—like my wife is a Sindhi—to at least this advantage, but I can understand a lot of it. I may not be able to speak a lot.

So Father, actually I really want to thank you. I remember last year I had asked you a question that what to do if, how to continue if family is like not accepting that we are coming to Satsang or anything.

That's why you got them along.

No, it's not that way. It's actually a miracle and it's your blessings actually that one year they have come. I'm very grateful to God and you, Father, because very slow. So Father, you gave that guided—can I say something on that point?

It is quite natural for a parent to worry. You see, now what happens in a way especially is that like if you go to, if you come to me, you'll find that hardly anybody knows of us, you see? So a parent's natural reaction first can be, you know, 'I hope you're not joining some cult' or 'I hope you're not getting misguided.' So it's a natural reaction, but ultimately the secret—

I'm very grateful to God and your father because very slow. So father, you gave that guided—can I say something on that point? It is quite natural for a parent to worry. You see, now what happens in a especially is that like if you go to—if you come to me, you'll find that hardly anybody knows of us, you see. So a parent's natural reaction first can be, you know, 'I hope you're not joining some cult' or 'I hope you're not getting misguided.' So it's a natural reaction, but ultimately the secret—can I tell him the secret? Because now I have a 24-year-old. So the secret is that what a parent really wants is for their child to be happy. So if you come to satsang and that's really bringing that happiness in your life, that peace in your life, that stress is going away, the grasping is going away, then sooner or later they will start feeling very happy that my child is so happy, you know, isn't it?

You're welcome. Very welcome. So if Ram Ji comes to your house, He will not say, 'You call me, I will only bless you.' So it's a great blessing for everyone. So I remember—it reminded me of the time where a lot of this spiritual unfolding was happening here and I wrote to my teacher and said, 'But my family is very worried. Is he going to leave his job?' I had little children when this was happening to me. So the family got really worried. So then my teacher told me that this grace that is unfolding for you is going to bless everyone around you, your family. It is not possible that that doesn't happen. Okay, let's go to Kevin to hear from Kevin.

Can you hear? Namaste. Can I have the mic, please? No, no battery in this. Okay, just let's try Kevin. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.

Very welcome. Very welcome.

I wrote down my question. So, I get to know you through Mooji and could you help me clarify something with self-inquiry? Yes. So, I'm sure that sense 'I am' is not objective, either is not thought or not body sensation, not in time like past or future. It's presence. It's also the perceiver. But somehow for some time I feel stuck with this limiting idea that this I-amness would be only in the body and if that perceiving of everything would happen from like center or something. And so I still—it's like imagine 'I am' to be in space. So even though intellectually I know it's not true, it's somehow not—feels not being enough. And I want to be free from this limiting idea because it creates such a suffering.

Wonderful, wonderful. That's a beautiful question to start. Very happy, very, very happy. So you say that, 'I see that, I know that. This sense of being, this I am, does not die, was never born, is not in past, is not in future. Time and space don't apply to it.' You see all of this, but you feel like the body is a container for this I am and it is limited. Now before we try and answer that question, may I ask you if for both those ends of conclusions, are you using the same mode of knowledge or are you using different modes of knowledge to know this?

I think it's a different. For the for the second one, it has this phenomena support, I would say. For the second one, I think—yeah, for the second one it needs some phenomenal support like—yes, so I see this, it needs this. And for the first one—for the first one, no, because it's not objective.

Yes. So, which part of you can know the non-objective? Which part of you cannot know the non-objective?

That which is not an object cannot be known with our senses, with our perception. Yes. And it can only be labeled by our concepts and thoughts. It cannot really be known. Yeah. So yeah, the objective cannot know the non-objective.

Very good. Very good. Yes. So unobjectively, we have the capacity to know, but not mentally know or sensory know, that which is not an object. Somewhere deeper. Whether we call that intuitive, whether we call that heart knowledge, whether we call it Atma Gyan, we have to admit that it is not through the old modes of knowledge that we can say these things about the I am. It is through this intuitive insight that I can say this about the I am. See, it's either that or we are just inferring or concluding. You see? So, which one is it?

Yeah, the knowing of—like, it's a difference. So I am aware of the body, but I am also self-aware and it's different.

Yes. But how do you know that the I am does not have a past or future? And how do you know that it does not die?

From presence.

From presence. Okay, let's accept that answer for the moment. Now what does the presence tell you about its limitation of being in the body?

Yeah. Yeah. The presence doesn't tell this. Doesn't tell.

Okay. Then we have to—as long as we want the answer and the presence is not telling yet, then we have to stay with the presence. Then we don't have to switch the mode of knowledge back to the mind to be able to conclude. In fact, it's better not to switch that mode of knowledge back anyway for anything. No matter how hard we try, we cannot force the objective—to use your vocabulary—the senses which are designed to perceive objects, we will never be able to force them to find knowledge about that which is unperceivable objectively. You see, we can agree on that, isn't it? So if they can't do it, then—but will they say, will the mind say, 'I can't do it'? No. It'll usually give you an answer. You see, so it is telling you that, 'But you see all of this, but the I am is contained in the body.' It is not saying, 'I don't know. I have no access to that knowledge.' It is not saying, 'Rely on that same place where you saw the first end of your answer. Go back to that and stay there.' It is not saying that. It is giving you a lie. Don't buy the lie. Even if your intellect troubles you and says, 'It's not finished till I know the answer to that one,' use that as inspiration to stay in the right place.

Yeah, the second one needs a phenomena support.

Yes. You see? Well, it's a mixture. No, it's a mixup because the body is provided phenomenally. But the I am we are taking from the first part and we are applying it here. So it's not even a pure phenomenal conclusion. You see what I mean?

No, this part I did.

Yeah, I'll repeat again. Happy to repeat as long as needed. You say that the second part needs phenomenal support. But it needs phenomenal support only to bring the body into the picture—the body perception and the body sensation, those into the picture which seem to create a boundary around I am. But actually if you were to look, the sensation of your body, is it happening outside of you or inside of you?

Yeah, this is what I also try to look many times and this is—yeah, it is inside my knowing.

Yes. If it is inside your knowing, then how is your being contained in this which is inside your knowing?

Only through an idea, I think. Only through an idea.

Through an idea. So it's worth throwing away that idea. Even if you know it, what happens sometimes, our intuitive insight is not in a rush. It knows at what pace to provide us that which is expressable in words. So if it is not yet seeming like I can say conclusively that I am beyond the body-mind, then we must not rush. There is no rush to come to this recognition. You see? And don't let your mind bother you and say, 'But only that is missing. Do it fast, fast, then we are finished, finish.' It's not like that. Don't get into that rush. If you stay in the same place where you're finding the heart knowledge about the timeless nature of that I-amness, that same place you will find the spaceless nature of it also.

Because that's what I long for. Because I heard from Mooji and from you also that it's like—yeah, like limitless and like vast. I understand it's a—yeah, that sense of being, how is it bound by the sensations of the body? What is your observation about this? In what way can a sensation contain me, or me in the sense of my being, my presence? It's just like an attach—like just like—I don't know. It's just like there is this pure intuition and then the mind puts it in the—feel like puts it in the—

Exactly.

That's what it feels like.

Exactly.

But then it is not anymore this pure intuition. If you mix it up, it's not pure.

Exactly. If you get water from the holy Ganges and you put it in the cup, you see, and then you put a drop of ink in it, you see? Then it's all blue, isn't it? It gets colored by the mind's notions and then it no longer gives you the purity of the holiness. Yeah. So don't mix it up.

Okay. So just try to stay with the pure, pure and then this is just—this is just mind.

Then I'll tell you one more secret. Okay? Huh? When you stay in that place, nothing is left unknown to you. You see, nothing is left unknown to you. But when the rest of your faculties will be able to conclusively speak about that, that is not up to us. You see? So when you are in that place, you know the answer, you know the truth, you see, but you don't—the rest of you, which is your mind, your senses, your mouths, all of these faculties are not yet in touch with that truth which is known in your heart. So that can take some time. So give it that time and don't judge what you know or you don't know as the truth from what you are able to decipher in your intellect. Okay. Bless. Thank you. All right, last one for today. Aniko? Hey, one sec. Yes. No.

Yes. Thank you so much, Ananta Ji. I just would like to make a report about the pride. I find it on myself. But I don't really realize at the first time when I just—nowadays it was so easy to actually eating without that much cooking and I just find then somehow something came that this so much grace that I get, that it is me who get this so much grace. There is so much grace and I am the one who get this grace and I am the one.

Yes. Yes. Yes. But that should make us more humble. No.

I know. I know. And I—yeah. But I didn't—I just got up so much pride. I didn't—

I'm special because I'm getting so much grace. Is that—

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. This is how. And also that some friends come to sit to the chair and she said, 'Oh, Aniko, this chair is getting so much of your vibration when you meditate in' and you know, and she stood here over the night and she was laughing all in his dream and she said, 'Oh, this old houses—'

I'm actually very upset because nothing is happening to this chair for so many years. I try to make this chair high vibration. No.

And also—and this is the first part and I was feeling so happy, so kind of so beautiful feeling and I didn't feel that is pride or I just felt is kind of true that—and you also feel the vibration in the chair. Yes, because I thought then I don't have to cook. I don't have to say anything. I just sit on the chair and this everything is just happen and—

But then the chair should be feeling pride. If you can be—

I went to this trap. I went to this trap and yesterday it happened and you also said we can measure on our anger how much we are arrogant. And yesterday I just went to a park with my dog and there was a man there and he said, 'Just left with your dog because your dog is irritated my dog.' And sorry for this little story but he said that, 'I going to kick your dog if don't take it away.' And Ananta, I got so, so angry you cannot believe how I was even shout and swear. And it was really feeling everything—nothing is so important than to show to this man that I am the right and you are the wrong. And it was not even enough for me to show this, but I want everybody else who is around us to stand by me and to everybody to see that I am right.

Your dog is irritated my dog and, sorry for this little story, but he said that, "I'm going to kick your dog if you don't take it away." And Ananta, I got so, so angry. You cannot believe how I was even shouting and swearing. And it was really feeling like nothing is so important than to show to this man that I am right and you are wrong. And it was not even enough for me to show this, but I want everybody else who is around us to stand by me and for everybody to see that I am right. And it was about like my life; it was about, I feel I will die if I don't show that I am right. And after, Ananta, it was so much pain inside me. And not even that because I was hurting that man, but how can this happen? That after so much feeling of love and grace and God with me, in that moment, just for one second, I get something wrong from another person and how can I just lose God so? There was no God; it was only my pride, 100% of my pride. I wanted to save that this is my right to be here and you are wrong. And now I just feel so broken down, and that also I see that is put in a way, but because it's just really broken.

That's very good.

And this is a kind of suffering as well at the same time, but I see that.

Yes.

So much "me" still in, so strong "me." And it is really only just God's grace and nothing else, because this is nothing from me. But it is good. Nothing, nothing, nothing. It is only from me; it can only be just pride and arrogance and selfishness and anger. And this is what "me" can symbolize; that's the word of "me." And everything else, what is love, what is peace, is only God. And actually, I'm so grateful as well that you always keep open our eyes and clarify, clarify, because otherwise I would really go to this arrogance, and this really separates me from the real truth. And thank you for this, Ananta.

That's a very beautiful report. So when we notice how much we want to be right, how much we still think we know, and if we can spot our pride in that instead of getting more self-righteous and "but I was right," you know, this kind of thing, but to just be open and to look at it with this humility is what brings us back down to earth. And it's very important to remain down to earth in this process. So I'm very happy that when life gives us these signals, these nudges, you see, they are God's grace. And we accept them openly; that is very good, very good. That's the first thing. Second thing is, when you're angry, when you're prideful, don't sit on that chair because all the vibration will go. Okay? Keep going like this and keep following God's nudges in our heart and in the world. You'll be fine.

I can see that God sent this man to me yesterday night to show me this arrogance.

Indeed.

Thank you for you, Ananta, being with us so many days a week and thank you so much. Thank you. I love you so much, Ananta.

I love you too, my child, very closely. So yeah, I've been...