Let Go and Let God - 22nd December 2025

Yeah. So, who could get throttled in the fear?

The one that's believing the story.

Okay. So, which one is that?

Just when I believe my thoughts, Father.

Yes, my child. But is there a throttleable one? That is what I'm asking. I'm just looking and see.

Take your time. I... the answer is no. But that's a... but yeah. When it's here to throttle, Father, it feels...

When it's here to throttle, then what happens? Just say from your experience, not from your idea of what happened.

When it's here to throttle, then it feels like there is someone that can be throttled.

What does that one feel like?

Which one?

The one that can be throttled. You said it feels like there is one that can be throttled. So how do you know about that one?

Because I'm witnessing it.

Yeah. So then there are two of you.

No, I am simply witnessing. But I'm simply witnessing it. When that throttling feeling comes, I leave the... I take myself to be... You see what I'm saying now, Father?

Yes. Yes, I see. See, actually, we are in the win-win situation. No, you know, when you recognize what you really are, letting go of everything that is perceived, that is a win. Even if we take ourselves to be the limited one, the small one, God is with us and God is the Lord of the universe in either way. So in neither posture can there really be trouble unless there's a forgetting either of our highest reality or a forgetting that God is here even if I am a measly somebody, a body-mind type organism.

So when it's in that moment of when it's so close, there is a forgetting, Father, and that is why the suffering...

It is not a forgetting. It is not that something comes and there's a forgetting. You know, in a sense, I have a sense of what you're saying, of course, but there has to be a deal from our side also. And that deal-making may seem a very subtle deal-making, but without that deal-making, it's not possible. So it is that 'yes, but'. Yes, God is here—what can you add as 'but' after that?

Yeah. So in that moment, I've left God and...

Okay, now leave that. Leave the pause. Don't fix it for the future you or for the past you. What about you right now?

There's no trouble.

So when you see what you really are, there's no trouble. Even if we forget who we really are, then we take ourselves to be the limited one. Then we have nothing to worry because God is with us. And the more we remember God is with us, the more we return to who we really are. And the more we stay in who we really are, then when Maya tries to get us, we remember God is with us. So it is not two separate things. It feeds into each other. It's a virtuous circle. You see? So if you are Pratma, what is there to fear because who is with you? So if Bajrangbali is with you when you are Pratma, then who can defeat him? What fear is too much for him? You see, but if you're not Pratma and you are That, then all fear also is your child only. It's happening in your light only, by your will only. Where is the trouble? You see, I see what is. So if you are That in which even consciousness, which is the Lord of the universe, takes birth, then there is no question of worry. And if you are that who is the favorite child—and all of us are the favorite child of God, don't ask me how it works, but it works like that, everybody is His favorite child—you see, so if you are the favorite child of God, then you have nothing to worry. You see, but what can happen is that we may not dive in fully to this realization either way because we are trying to take care of it so that 'I hope I don't forget this in the future, I hope this will take care of me.' There's still too much self-concern in that for all of us. So if you are making a tactic out of it saying, 'Okay, next time when it comes, then I just have to remember who I really am' or 'I have to remember Bajrangbali is here to save me,' you see, only in the fully tasting of it will the false conditioning, the false groove, get dropped and the new groove get created. You see, remember we've talked about grooves. That's how conditioning works. So, we are deconditioning ourselves from the false grooves of personhood and creating a new habit of turning to God either this way or this way, whichever way.

Yes, Father.

You see, so the practice is really about when the mind tries to hypnotize us, when it tries to get us into the false identification, break that pattern and return to God. Break that pattern, return to God. Break that pattern and return to self-knowledge. Whichever way—to the love of God, to the self-knowledge of God, to the beauty of God, to humility—all of these things are the same. They are the returning to God, no matter whatever sensations are there. Why are you trying to solve it for first? You said right now no trouble. You see, but you're still fearful that what will I do when it comes again?

No, Father. The thought was that an idea that then I should not have this kind of sensation.

But like I said, all sensations are allowed. All sensations happen in your light, in the light of consciousness. And no sensation happens without the will of consciousness. You see, so there's nothing that can happen which is not happening with your will in this moment. Okay. Where is the gada? So, some of you like Jnana, some of you like Bhakti. Either way, you have to be happy. Yes, yes, I know I am That. But, but, but, but... really, and I'm not picking on Pratma, I'm saying for all of us this is what happens to us, that the 'but, but, but' part is more important, but the 'I am That' part we know, you know, it's very casual. You see, how can it be like that? In that also, if you're able to say 'I am That, but...', you see, 'I am That, but...', let's focus on the 'but'. Post that, that means what have we said in the first part? I am That. Which one is that? Nirguna Brahman, for whom a trillion years is nothing but a blink of an eye. We are saying 'I am That' and then the focus can be on the 'but'. You see, that is the danger of making it knowledge, like making it conceptual. You see, in the lived recognition, what you're seeing yourself to be, finding yourself to be, is that the universes take birth within you. You see, now suppose you realize this for the first time right now, that within me, within what I really am, is where the universes take birth, take place. Then will you quickly go to the 'yes, but you know what happened is I got a pay cut at my job'? What? You just realized that trillions of years are nothing for you. You're seeing that? So this is the maha-hypnosis of Maya. How is it able to do this? It is a very powerful force. It's able to convince you even after saying that 'I have direct realization of this, recognition of this,' it convinces you, 'But now you have to be scared, fearful of fear coming.' You see? Okay, so forget it. Let's forget Nirguna Brahman. It may seem too far-fetched. Let's say that I am little old me. I'm little old Ananta. I'm going my merry way. I was born, I will die, I have children, I have all the... Now if this Ananta was supportless, unsupported, you see, then he would have a lot to worry about. This universe is massive. I don't know, anything can happen at any time. There are forces of nature. Human beings are greedy. Human beings are selfish. Every day is a battle. You see, but I realized that somehow in the 50 years, no matter what has happened, something—let's call it something for now—something has always taken care of me. Things have seemed terrible sometimes, but all problems are resolved. You see, then we investigate the nature of that something. And we realize that this world, this universe belongs to that something, and that something is very much here as my very presence, as the Atma itself. So forget Nirguna Brahman. Okay, for the moment, if you were here, then are you ever here without your presence, without your existence? You see, and your existence itself is that same God. Whether you look at that God as Nirguna, Saguna, or Atma, whether you look at that God as Ram, Lakshman, Hanuman, or Allah, Jesus, whichever name you want to give it. So as little me, He is always here to help me. I have nothing to worry about because nothing happens without His will. He knows about everything. He loves us deeply. He can fix everything in a moment and He is just trying to make sure that we are growing and deepening. You see, it is not because of a lack of compassion for us. You see, so in either case, we don't have cause to have any concern whatsoever. Now Maya convinces us that neither is true. Although our lip service, our lips will always say, 'But yeah, it's true, but it's very... but you know, take care of the 'but' part first, then I'll be happy.' Okay. Yes. It offers you, makes you fearful, makes you lustful, makes you any of these postures, creates a shape for you. It offers you all these. No, what does it offer? Shape, right? It offers a shape in the form of 'better'. You see, 'It's better if this fear wasn't there. It's better if I had a million dollars. It's better if my children were like this. It's better if my family was like this.' You see, so this 'better, better, better' is sold to us. And in that—and it's so cunning, no? So the greatest con artist, as Kabir Ji said, 'Mahatingni'. So this con artist says, 'I am only saying for your betterment,' and in that guise of betterment, you see, by your very own design, you fall into the trap of identification. Or let's say at least the design of That who is one with you, not separate from you. You see, so we get into this like 'yes, but', and that 'yes, but' is very devious because it makes us little, in the middle, lukewarm. And that is why we are able to say such big things like 'God is here with us' and then such small things like 'but what about my money, but what about my relationship?' You see, in the first part, it really can't be true. If Hanuman Ji was really here, you'd say, 'Yes, thank you for coming, but hey...' So the difference between what we understand and how we live moment to moment is the faith in which we have to deepen. Are you getting that point? You see, so there's an understanding, intellectual, based on some insight. You see, there's an understanding. Now that understanding turns more and more into faith. You see, and just like when you get off the couch, you don't have to worry whether the ground will hold me or it'll be stable. You know the ground will be stable. You see, so that then becomes... you don't have to rely on thought, conceptual understanding. You just live in that faith. You see? So, so that gap, you see, it gets filled up the more time you spend in the presence of the truth or in the presence of God, whatever term you want to use. You see, so the lawyer for Maya will not like that. The one sitting in your head will not like that.

You don't have to worry whether the ground will hold me or it'll be stable. You know the ground will be stable. You see, so that then becomes—you don't have to rely on thought, conceptual understanding. You just live in that faith. You see? So that gap, you see, it gets filled up the more time you spend in the presence of the truth or in the presence of God, whatever term you want to use. You see, so the lawyer for Maya will not like that. The one sitting in your head will not like that. Now strangely, can we go a little forward on this? Strangely, when we forget who we really are, which is that, you see, then our posture becomes strangely—we become the opposite. We're doing this: 'I will do this, I want to do this, I don't want to have this,' like that. But when we don't forget who we are—we remember who we are, either the favorite child of God or that itself—then our posture becomes open, receptive. That openness is a very big thing because we feel that this posture is fearful, but this posture is fearless because you're open, allowing everything to come.

This is just an outer position in the world like that because you're actually very scared of looking within yourself. You see, so you just want to create—we just want to create this semblance of outer control so that we never have to look at who is really in charge. That is why it is the most fearful people. The most fearful ones were not able to sit with themselves for the slightest amount of time, who in the outer are very like controlling because that gives them the sense of false control. As you learn to let go and let God, see, let go and let God, then that needs the courage of faith. So a lot of times we don't talk about this aspect, but what you're hearing in satsang can be very scary for you and resistance is a response to that. You see, so our resistance comes, but actually what are we scared of? Just to offer ourselves fully in love or to offer ourselves fully in the search of truth, the search of true insight, not relying on any preconceived idea—that needs courage. So that courage is rare.

Okay, it is not visible. We'll go to no more. So Father, apologies in advance. I'm a lawyer of my—Maya's lawyer.

You want to be Maya's lawyer?

So Father, a few days back in satsang, you mentioned about Ma Shabri, and that was really disappointing when you broke—you broke my heart, Father.

Oh really? No, no.

You said, Father, that—let's—in one of you said that if, let's say, Ram doesn't come at all, was her life waste?

Yes.

And also you said that—and some of the satsang members said that, 'No, Shabri Ma, at least we get a peace, right?' And you said even peace you don't get.

Right.

Then was her life waste? So Father, that really pulled the carpet right below.

But it's meant to. So thankfully, that means you really heard it.

Yes, Father. But—

It's meant to be scary.

But then, okay, again, the mind was like, 'What are we perceiving right now?' You were explaining that all get in for Lord, get in for God. Get in for inside moments for God. Now that 'for God' also you pulled that day.

Sweet. Okay. Okay. Let me explain this point. So Ma Shabri said, 'I will set the table every day for God.' Okay. So in a way, the parallel is that I am waiting at His door. One day He will reveal Himself to me. So in the history, then we know that the Lord visited her in that human body. So suppose that that moment would not have happened, you see, then would we call all the sixty years of Ma Shabri's sadhana a waste? That's the point of the question. Are we waiting, are we in this because that outcome has to happen? If the outcome doesn't happen, then this is a waste? 'I would rather be focused on making money or taking care of other things in the world than waiting at God's temple door.' So the crux of it is, isn't that waiting at the doorway of the heart temple the highest we can do anyway, independent of the outcome?

As far as stewardship goes, doership goes, I think that's the—I know that's the highest, Father. Yeah, but when we are taking out the end goal out of it, it's really shaking.

Okay. Very good. Very good. Thank you. I'm still happy that you're hearing it. Now, let's say Ma Shabri is on day one of the sixty years. Okay. So, 365 into 60, whatever that number is. She's on day one. She spent all her day in love with God, putting flowers on the path, collecting the berries, tasting them if they're sweet enough for her God, saving them, and expectantly remembering Him and waiting for Him. Is there a higher way she could have spent that day?

She was slightly in her heart—for I'm not doubting her for sure, I'm not—but slightly in her heart will be an expectation of meeting Ram, right? That's the base of her putting flowers, right? 'I will meet Him.' And you're saying let's say she knew from day one Ram is not coming, Father, will her mind allow her to do all this? Like even my—sorry.

What is my feeling? What is my feeling about this? My feeling about this is that it is an unchanging faith that He has to come, and yet even that is His will alone. You see, it may sound like a contradiction. You see, maybe it is. But have we not been in that place where we have that extreme longing to have His darshan, and yet to long for His darshan is the sweetest life we can have? Okay. So now let's apply it to yourself because it's hurting.

Something is hurt. No, that and maybe it is some fear that okay, now basically what he's saying is there's no guarantee that it definitely has to happen for her also. Is it like that? Yeah, there's no guarantee that it could happen for a great sage like that also. Then what am I? Then I have no chance. That's what hurts me, that then in my case I have no chance.

Well, the truth of the matter is that it is only up to Him. We can never do seva enough to deserve Him. Huh? Let me wait till I finish the whole thing. It's very important. We can never do enough to compel Him. You see, nothing you can—He's got trillions of planets like Earths. We are one among billions on one tiny Earth. So there's nothing that we can do which will compel Him. You see, which will force Him. And yet He is the most merciful. Yet He is the most merciful. And that is our position, our condition. So the first part should not be taken without the second part, that He as the most merciful has not given me some idea of what meeting Him would be. Why would He do that? Only because of love.

Again, it may sound strange. You see, a child wants to have thirty candy bars. The parent says no. Why? Because of love. You see, so does the child feel it's love? Does the child feel a parent is being merciful by denying me candy? You see, so the child has to learn that the parent knows best. So the most merciful Ram, if He says, 'No, I don't want to show up to Ananta in this way,' is it then I have to accept that He knows better for me? It is only out of His love for me. It's a tough one, of course, because I have an idea. I want to grab His feet and love Him and serve Him for lifetimes. Because my idea of heaven is that I just be at His feet. But suppose that doesn't happen. You see, then may I not forget that He is the most merciful and even that is a sign of His mercy alone. I get where you're coming from. Don't feel like I can't relate to what you're saying because if I die—and sorry if I'm getting emotional—but if I die and I find that He's not there with me, He sent me somewhere else, I'll probably feel that hurt, you see. But may I remember quickly that this is all part of His grace. Thank you, brother.

Your idea of heaven could be merging with the Nirvana, which is fine, which is fine too, or to be with Krishna or to be with the Mother or to be with the sages like beautiful—beautiful lives. But what unfolds is only His will. Only that is going to happen. What He has said will happen. So Father, when I pray or when I am with Him, I can still seek Him. He appears or not, it's up to Him. But seeking Him is still a purpose behind it.

That's what I'm saying. It's fire. Isn't that the fruit in itself? Isn't our loving Him, waiting for Him expectantly in our heart, you see, which is the deepest we can do to be in His presence—then isn't that the most auspicious life already?

So again, Father, so Ma Shabri seeking Ram is okay? Still seeking Ram, like there's a purpose behind it, that's still okay? Whether it happens, it's up to Him?

Yes, yes. It's not okay, it's the best. Let's put it—let's name it in a different way. Yes, maybe I'm happy I got the chance to clarify for everyone. So, let me just put it another way. When will we confirm that based on this we can say that God is here? At what point will we say this is enough evidence now? 'I know because of this I know God is always with me.' Because otherwise that mind is chasing targets, you know, goalposts keep changing. 'Oh, this happened, got taken care of, must be coincidence.' This happened—'Oh wow, this is such grace.' After two days, 'Oh, must have been just a coincidence.' You see, everything the mind can normalize very easily. You see, so I'm saying for at this point what feels true, that if this was to happen, I would say that God is really, really here.

So if I'm without my—for some time if I can be without Maya, that means I—

So deep sleep without Maya, or just absence of the 'me' in the waking state, that's also without Maya. That also you've been. So that's—no, that's why every day I mention this experiment. So suppose the form of God that you resonate with the most, He showed up. Then would you say, 'Now, pakka pakka real'? Even then the mind will not agree. So how to break out of this? How to break out of this? You see, like Jesus said in one of his sermons that whatever is given to us, you see, we have the propensity to doubt. He said first John came, huh? John used to eat insects, used to eat leaves in the forest, used to not wear footwear, you see, used to just live in the most frugal and the most sadhu way, the highest renunciate way. You see, so then all of you said, 'But he can't be God because God could never come to Earth, which is His kingdom, and live like such a beggar.'

He said, 'Then I came. I sing and dance and drink wine with all of you and all of that. I have a nice time during this life. You see, I'm not living like a sadhu so much.' Although he did before that, but then you say—now you criticize and say, 'But this one can't be God or a messenger of God because he lives in this. How does he—where is his penance? Where is his renunciation? You can't be God.' So in whichever way grace comes to us, the mind will find a way to normalize it and say, 'No, no, no.' Now why is he saying that? He's saying that also because all of us have had such thousands and thousands and millions of experiences of grace where if you were to calculate the mathematical probability of that happening, it would be completely impossible. You see, and yet we have found a way to normalize and say, 'Oh no.' You see, so that's why I keep asking: what has to happen? Does He have to come in the physical?

And you're absolutely right that initially we may be astounded, but after fifteen minutes we start saying, 'Is this a dream? Is this really happening?' You see, so there's nothing really which can convince us. You see, our mind and intellect are not designed to be convinced in that way. That's why we need to change the instrument itself, and to learn to live in the new instrument of the heart comes only by practicing. If you were to switch from living on land to living on water where you have to swim everywhere, then it would take some practice. No? You see, in the same way, when we are switching from living in our heads—this suffering prison called the mind—to living in our hearts, we need the practice. See, so learning to live in God's presence, learning to live in the reality of who we are, takes practice, and that practice makes us faithful. So I'm just trying to not speak as much because I have to compete with that sound. But when we are learning to live, what is faith? Thank you.

To swim everywhere, then it would take some practice. No, you see, in the same way, when we are switching from living in our heads—this suffering prison called the mind—to living in our hearts, we need the practice. See, so learning to live in God's presence, learning to live in the reality of who we are, takes practice, and that practice makes us faithful. So I'm just trying to not speak as much because I have to compete with that sound. But when we are learning to live, what is faith? Thank you. So what is faith? Is it that there are two compartments in our head? One loves God, you see, the other hates God. So to go towards the compartment in our head which loves God, is that to live in faith? You see? Yeah. That's not it.

To live in the true mode of knowledge, to live in Atma Gyan, to live in God's presence, to operate from there, to let go of the false notions of who we are and to rely only on what our heart tells us to be true—that is faith, you see. So that is why all the spiritual practice questions, whether you take 'Who am I?' or you take a Zen koan, are meant to take us from head to heart. So what happens in 'Who am I?' You can't solve it here. You can be the highest intellectual, but you can't solve it in your head. And yet people have used that question right from Yagnavalkya's days, you see, in the Upanishads; at that point, they have used the question to find out who they are, you see.

So how is it possible? If you cannot solve it in your head, intellect, then how can that question be resolved? You see, now our idea is that I should just ask 'Who am I?' and then I should naturally go to the right way of knowing and the truth should be revealed to me. It doesn't happen that way because we're used to living in a different planet. All our conditioning, Avidya, is what? All our conditioning has the propensity to pull us into our heads instead of letting us drop into our intuitive place, which is the heart. Now, among our seven billion brothers and sisters, the heart is an emotional heart or a biological heart. They don't take the heart to be the spiritual center where Atma comes from, where true knowledge comes from, and true guidance of what is God's will and where and how to live in God's will comes from.

So when we say heart in Satsang, we're not talking about the biological heart or the emotional center. You see, we're talking about the heart that Bhagavan told us about. He's at the very core of our spiritual existence. Oh, like you were saying that the time when our intellect mind gets worn out, we get worn out using it. You see, then we allow ourselves to surrender into a higher place where true knowledge, true love, true beauty—all that is revealed. Satyam Shivam Sundaram. You see, take a simple spiritual statement like Satyam Shivam Sundaram. What will your mind make out of it? 'Oh, truth is so beautiful.' Then Shiva—if we are lucky, then that is what the mind will make out of it, you see. Then 'God is that truth and beauty.' Mind has made this, but has it become a recognition?

You see, so when you have this in your head that God is truth and beauty, is that knowledge? Yet you're like that character then in 'A Suitable Boy,' no, who says that, 'Oh, in Oxford this is what happens and in Cambridge this is what happens and on this street, Piccadilly Circus, this is what happened,' full British accent which I can't do, so he does like that, you see. Now at the end of the book or the movie I saw, somebody asked him, 'So when did you go?' and he says, 'Actually, I haven't had the pleasure.' You see, then what credibility do his reports have? You see, so if we were to say Satyam Shivam Sundaram but actually we haven't seen the oneness of God and beauty and truth, then what are we talking about? We don't know Oxford from Cambridge. You see? Huh?

Then trying to find the heart because of our love for God or our love for truth, which are the same. We find the heart. You see, but there must come a point where we are able to see the false as false. You see, we tried to use a hammer to dig a well for ten years. After that, ten years must be enough to see, 'Okay, this hammer is not going to do it.' So we tried to find God with our mind intellect. We tried to find love with these primitive tools and we see that doesn't work, and the sages have told us what to use. You see, now don't wait for that day when the mind itself will come and tell you, 'Oh, you can't use me for anything of value. I'm just a lawyer for Maya.' You can wait for that day. But how many of you feel that the only way to know something is in your head? Such such, don't feel that. What other way is there? Is there another way? Okay, some of you nodding on Zoom, sensing something.

Now, how do we know it is enthusiasm or excitement versus anxiety? We don't leave the sensation alone. No, it's like the vibration is there but we have to quickly put it in a box and say, 'I'm so anxious.' You see, and other times when it seems happier, 'I am so excited,' you see, whereas the vibrational quality of what you may be sensing would have been very similar. You see, so what to do? We leave whatever we are perceiving alone. No, we have to label it. 'Now this is happening. You see, now this is happening. This is what it is.' We put everything into a narrative. So, but you're right. So besides perceptual knowledge and conceptual knowledge, is there any other knowledge?

You see, and if now you start to notice spiritual questions, they are meant to pull you into another kind of knowledge. So if the question is asked, 'Are there only perceptions here right now?' where can you go for the answer? 'Who am I?' If you could go to your mind for the answer, your mind already has it. You are that Nirguna Brahman. Pure awareness itself. You are that. The mind has it. No. You see, then what are we waiting for? Don't think that it's about conviction. That's the biggest mistake we can make. Because then what will happen to us? The more we are convinced, we feel it's about conviction. 'I must always remember I am that.' You see, then anybody talks to me, I must just be like, 'But I am that, I am that.' Make it very convoluted.

You see, it is not about conviction in the head. And this is the mistake because many, many brothers and sisters, they hear the sages talk and they seem very convinced about this fact of who they are. So they feel like that's how I have to be, just very convinced. But it's not about conviction; it's about a different playground altogether. Conviction is still deeply believing thought construct. And Bhagavan said that for every thought we must ask who is the witness of that. He didn't say one day the thought will come 'I am that,' you must grab that and become fully convinced about it. In the booklet 'Who am I?' has he said one day when the thought comes 'I am Brahman itself,' then you hold on to that thought and you build your house on that thought? Has he said? No. He said even if that thought comes, then you ask who witnesses that.

In Ribhu Gita he says, 'No Shiva, no Hari, no nothing.' You see, now what is the meaning of that? We'll come to it. The Zen people say, 'If you see a Buddha on the road, kill him.' Same thing. Father Thomas Keating said, 'If Mother Mary comes in your prayer, contemplative prayer, say: Not now, dear, I'm busy.' All of them have told us why. Because it's not going to be in our imaginary visualization, in our conceptual thinking, in any sensory perception. Where will the answer be? 'Who am I?' 'What is the sound of one hand clapping?' 'How will the goose escape the wall?' Same answer. But that answer, same answer in your head, is not the answer.

Getting a sense of the spiritual body, we have to switch out from our home to a different home. We can practice letting go of the false and loving the truth. In fact, we have to. It's only the very rare ones for whom without practice it happens. So we have to practice that, and then what happens is that that which is beyond this universe opens a door in your heart, you see, and reveals the truth. That is called Atma Darshan. That is called self-knowledge or self-realization, God-realization, whatever fancy words we want to use. So it makes us very helpless first, which means humble, because beyond the point of stillness we can't do anything, you see. Even to get to the point of stillness is quite difficult for all of us. No. So after that, how to open that door? Where is the handle? From which way does it open? Only He can do it. He whose home is beyond this objective universe and yet He lives in my heart.

So when that door opens, that is when we know who we are. Anyone who has come to self-realization, has anyone gone and reported, 'You know what happened is my mind was very clear, I am that'? Has anyone made that report? No, you see. And yet somewhere, those on the path of self-inquiry are waiting for like a mental conviction. No sage has reported that. It's not about that. It is that a different set of eyes open. Maybe the third eye is a metaphor for that, I'm not sure. But a different set of eyes open which turn in a direction out of this objective world of time and space where the presence which you call 'I am,' or God's presence itself, shows you its very source as the Nirguna reality, as the Father of all fathers.

You're getting why I say don't leave it till too late? Because first it takes a lot of practice to stay in the right place. Then like Ma Shabri, we have to wait, you see. Then there we have to wait, and she had to wait sixty years. What makes us think we have time? And don't fall for the mind trick which says, 'But no, that is a different life meant for somebody else, not for me.' Our very design is this. We are made for this alone. Because you try and live any other kind of life, you're not happy. Then you need substances to make yourself happy. Then you need sensory pleasure to make yourself happy. Then you need external excitement, seeing some hill or river or something to make yourself happy. You have to go from place to place to make yourself happy because you're missing that which is the source of happiness in your heart presence itself. Okay, let's hear Shah because he took the day off to talk to me.

Am I audible? Yes. Yes. There is now nothing to... that's what happened. I was giving more attention to person than the presence. That's it. And now it's shifting back.

Okay. So one way it came in Satsang to say is that every problem is actually a spiritual problem. But another way really is that every problem actually is the absence of being with spirit. To not be with our Atma is the problem. So there's a dogged sort of pursuit of being able to resolve it in our mind intellect. And that doggedness keeps us trapped in the personhood instead of the presence. But that's why Achintya is so beautiful. Ah, there's no distinction between myself and that, then I have nothing to worry. That there is a distinction—I am this me and you are that—but you are always taking care of me, so I have no reason to worry. When we get into egotism, then neither seems true. Both seem too far-fetched and fantastic. But that's not true right now. Both are true. That is why it is Achintya, which is unfathomable. We cannot think about it. Is it?

So we have to learn to be vigilant because Maya doesn't come and say, 'Hey, I'm coming to trap you.' The thief doesn't ring the doorbell and come. A thief will come with a semi-spiritual friendly thought. Yeah. Something, I don't know, some... maybe we can report what we fell for. So it starts like that and then builds up the narrative from there. You see, and it's very responsive to your belief. You see, the minute you bite at something, no, like an expert fisherman, the minute the fish bite, you see, the minute you just bite at something, you see. So like five minutes back you were just like, 'Now this day just belongs to God fully.' Then it starts, then it says, 'But you know, what about that? Then what about that, that, that?' Soon we're just like, 'Okay, tomorrow God, tomorrow.' So this is how we go.

So it starts like that and then builds up the narrative from there. You see, and it's very responsive to your belief. You see, the minute you bite at something—no, like an expert fisherman, the minute the fish bite—you see, the minute you just bite at something. So like five minutes back you were just like, 'Now this day just belongs to God fully.' Then it starts, then it says, 'But you know, what about that? Then what about that, that, that?' Soon we're just like, 'Okay, tomorrow, God, tomorrow.' So this is how we go.

So what is the solution? It is to stay with Him no matter what is playing out on the outside. Then your life is satsang, whether you're working or you're in satsang. Be careful not to use this as an excuse, but if you are in God's presence, that is the truest satsang. But that means what? Spirituality. Now it's clear to us that spirituality is the only thing we feel should happen without practice. If you have to get into a good academic institution, we feel like we have to study. If you have to become a bodybuilder, we feel like we have to go to the gym. But in spirituality, we just feel like... but to come to that needs a lot of just not pushing away so much of it. Letting go, letting go, letting go, letting go.

So letting go is a practice. It feels strange because actually when we let go, we are the most natural. You see, but then in that case, to give up on all addiction should be easiest, but it's the most difficult. No, you see, because the most natural is when you were not addicted, then to drop the addiction should be just... it doesn't happen. And so we got addicted to our identity, our mind, and we come to satsang to get de-addicted from that, and that is at the root of all addiction.

So I recognized in my prayer yesterday that what grace it is that I'm able to turn to Him and He shares His light. And what makes me so proud is that He doesn't turn that light off, but I turn away. So how is it that I decide to stop my prayer or sadhana, whichever way you want to look at it? So I'm empty, and in that openness, in that receptivity, you know in your heart—I don't know how to say what you know in the heart, but you know in your heart. So when is He mistaken that He is continuing to provide, like He doesn't know that there are more important things for me to do? Have you looked at it like that? But I have to decide I have more important things to do and go. But isn't He the all-knowing one?

You see, so what is the right way to pray? When we are full of grace in this way, by His grace we come to this point. Then allow Him to give us a nudge. You notice the nudge where something feels fully complete in your heart. You feel like the thirst is quenched. These are subtle things for those of you who are actually practicing what I'm saying. So when we get there into that quiet contemplation, into that stillness, then allow Him to nudge through that feeling of satiation. What is it? What is it called? Satiety. Something feels complete in your heart. You'll then continue to be in that openness, in that receptivity, in that inner seeing, in that inner listening, which has nothing to do with these senses. Okay? That's why I'm saying this part is only for those who are seriously contemplating practicing what I'm saying.

So know that the mind will try to distract you and pull you away when that transformation is deepening, when the Atma, when the self-realization is... the transformation is happening. So if you're going to keep following for the mind's temptations, then it can seem like a very prolonged journey, a very prolonged process. Just be quiet. If the mind is very active, then use your prayer, use your ideas, or use your inquiry and be done. So in that quietness, sometimes the thought activity is weak. So you notice it and you return. You don't have to do anything at all.

Sometimes it seems stronger. It seems more compelling to our belief. So suppose it's saying, 'But we have to check on this. It's getting late, something, something.' Just say your prayer or say the short version. Say your arrow prayer mantra once, or just say 'Who am I?' or 'Who is witnessing this thought?' Suppose it becomes unrelenting, then really become vigilant about asking the question: Who am I? Who witnesses this thought? Or use a tool like a mala to return to God's name. Fill yourself up, including your mind, with God's name. Because a mind—the only safe mind—is a mind only in remembrance of God's name, because it'll pull you into the heart.

And all this you have to see for yourself, what works for your design, for your temperament. It is the sadhana itself which teaches us how to do the sadhana. We find an internal mechanism, you see, which we are not able to express in words. So we can provide these broad guidelines, but till you attempt to stay in that holy place in your heart, the heart temple which is the source of all revelation and love, till then our spirituality is without spirit. So it's not a spirituality at all yet.

Now by God's grace, He gives us enough of these moments where we hear a beautiful bhajan or something touches our heart where we fall into our heart. Or you walk into satsang or you hear a talk on YouTube by any beautiful teacher and you just fall into your heart, or you read a beautiful verse from a book passage. So He has not left any of us without these experiences. But it is Maya's job to pull us out. But if we consider the purpose of our life to live in God's presence, to be spiritual is to live in God's presence, then we must learn to live there.

As Bulleh Shah Ji said, 'What is the point of living if you haven't looked inside your heart?' There are many other very strong things about this, but I don't want to get in any more trouble than I already am. But the point being, any outer spirituality of being a whatever, without actually looking inside your own heart... now, say.

Father, I've been in different states of long periods of bliss for a very long period of time. Probably maybe seven or eight years it's been like that. For some reason, the way you describe about truth makes sense to me. The idea about God, even though I experienced this, it's a little not digestible. Just right now, like there's a long period of not even just bliss, but there was no thought activity, not much is going on like that right now. When I work or do this thing, sometimes there is a flurry of activity and then again some awareness comes and that dies up. And after some time again it starts and it sort of dies up. This is how it's been sort of going on.

Does the bliss dry up or does the awareness dry up?

Bliss only dies out.

Exactly.

So awareness, rather, maybe because there is some certain level of attention, it feels like awareness has come in. But otherwise, I also know that it went through the roller coaster of that thought process, right? And one of the things that you mentioned is sitting in God's presence, that is like sitting still in a way, right?

So what is your main practice? The inquiry, self-inquiry?

Yes. I don't... it's a combination. That's from Mooji, I don't even know. Sometimes it looks all the same to me. Sometimes they look different. For instance, when I go through like periods of fear or misery, I end up looking at Krishnamurti's work. Sometimes the 'be open and empty' that I learned from you back in 2009, that comes into my mind. But whatever it is, that space gets created and then it sort of happens that way. But in a way, it's been like a very long period of time wherein the initial part it looked like there was progress, and from that point of time it's been a very long period of time wherein there is a sense of bliss and then sometimes there is a certain amount of thought activity, and then it's been happening for like a very long period of time.

Whenever there's not much thought activity, there is bliss?

Yes. Is that bliss like a feeling? No, it's different from feeling because it originates here somewhere. I'm not even sure if... but it feels like the sensations. It's not even like a sensation. Exactly. Like, it largely comes from here. So initially it used to come from somewhere here and then coming from...

So yes. So thank you. Very good. So many times in our practice, in our sadhana, there can be an outer feeling of love, bliss, peace, but all these feelings are limited. But there's an inner love, inner peace, inner bliss which is not in the same realm of feeling, right? So that is unlimited. It feels like home somehow.

Yeah. You see, it feels like home. And also there's nothing related to it. It's not because of this. There's no particular thought process that is triggering it or anything. Usually that comes, this sort of, you know, either reduces in its intensity or like this is there, right? So it's not because of some reason or other.

Yes, it's almost like the focus shifting. So when something comes in the world, then focus shifts on that. Actually this doesn't go, but then when we return to it, then it seems like a greater intensity. Because when the focus of the camera is on the object, that object seems to be the brightest among everything, and then it switches to something else, then it seems to lessen in intensity. But that in itself didn't change, is it?

Yes.

So this is good. So whatever you're doing to increase your time spent there, do that.

That should be the object. That should be the thing. Increase the time spent.

Yes. It's all about time. Thank you. So some have called it the holy light of the Atma. Some have called it the aura of the true knowledge. Some have called it the dazzling darkness. But there's no way to understand any of these words. We can only taste them. Just like love, we can keep talking about love, but till we fall in love, then till then we don't know what love really is.

You see, in the same way, this bliss, this self-knowledge, this being in the presence of God just for itself, for God's love, for God's sake, for the love of truth, unsupported, unconnected, unattached to anything in Maya, in the world. That is where, in that unperceivable light of the Atma within, which gives us the consolation in the form of feeling the love, the bliss, the peace. It is subtler than the feelings of these things. But the consolations in our heart then pull us towards the holy light of the Atma within.

In that there is Atma Gyan. Only the Atma can show us who we are. We cannot see who we are by ourselves. Only the Atma shows us what God's will is. Only the Atma shows us what kind of power is with us. So this which we may call the holy waiting is never inauspicious. It is the most auspicious use of every moment. Empty of ourselves. Fully open to receiving in our hearts. Let's get orders from behind. That's how we have to follow God's will—orders from the heart. Okay. Anything else? Yes, please. You want to say that? Okay.

Yeah, you can say to everyone. There's a different person that comes out of here when I'm with God. And there's a different person that comes out of here when I'm not with God. You know, like the smell is so different. But I'm starting to get tired, Father. It's not despair. It's anger. I don't know. I can't find the right word. But it's like, 'I'm done with this.' It's not in that direction, but it's like I want to jump, you know, like the fire. And that fire has been missing for a few years for me, and I'm missing that fire. And I'm not here for anything but that, and at the cost of everything.

Yes.

God. You know, like the smell is so different. But I'm starting to get tired, Father. It's not despair. It's—it's anger. I don't know. I can't find the right word. But it's like this: I'm done. Yeah. It's not in that direction, but it's like I want to jump, you know, like the fire. And that fire has been missing for a few years for me, and I'm missing that fire. Yeah. And I'm not here for anything but that, and at the cost of everything. Yes. I mean, everything can go, but I know I want this more than anything, you know? Because something or the other plays out—attachment to Father, attachment to this relationship—that I know in my heart I'm willing to give it up, give all of it up, because I can't not live without this, you know? Like, I'm tired of the—no work, no calm. Like, there's very little work and there's a lot of... you know, it's my seeing about myself, you know.

Very good. Very good.

And it's not about anything but God.

Yes.

It's like I can be stuck in this for the next 40, 50 years.

And that's how Maya works.

And I wanted to ask you: how do I stay with God? How do I see that this is the mind? Because sometimes I go too far, like I—

Too far with the mind.

With the mind. Yes. And it takes a while for me to draw—like, I have to go against the current to come back, you know? And like, if someone sees my day, it's not lived with... you know, it's got a different flavor. So that dissonance is starting to trouble me, that if I'm saying I'm here for the truth, I'm not living that. If I'm saying I'm here for God, I'm not living that. And it aches, you know? It's a heartache. But I don't want to make this speech and then go about doing my own way. I really want to change enough. Like, that other world is pain. It's so much suffering, you know, and I live like that.

You know, every day there's something new. Every day. Exactly. Maya provides a theme every day, and it does it so we can forget about God for that day. You see? And like you're saying beautifully, that like this, day after day, then eight years can go. Not that eight years have gone like that, but they can go in a more lukewarm state than we want to be. And that's what Maya wants to do. So, how to transcend, to overcome this Maya or to fight against the force of Maya, is practice. It is what we've spoken about today: to practice. And that is why I've been sort of ranting for years now against a sort of spiritual idea, you see? Leading a so-called spiritual life, but actually in the idea of spirituality. But what does that actual lived spirituality look like? You see? So, moving away from a lip-service, armchair spirituality to a true spirituality. And by God's grace, that's what's been shared, and that's what's helping this one grow to recognize the tricks Maya plays, and hopefully helping all of you also see that and to grow in that.

So, how to do it is to do more of it. How to be with God more is to try and pray more. How to come to the truth is to try and inquire more. So, we have to just... we know, hopefully, like at least half the time, we know when the mind is talking rubbish. You see? Making excuses for not being with God. So, start with those half the time; that itself will be very good. Then that will grow. We can only live in the house that we built. Yeah. So, like what was the Sufi saying? That we can only expect to get payment from the master that we've served. That's very important. So, if we serve Maya, we'll be paid by Maya, which is suffering. And if you serve God, then we'll be paid by God. You see? And there's no... like, we can fool everyone else in the world, but we can't fool God. We can't fool our heart, right? You see? So, that's it. So, I'm glad you are still, like, 20 years younger than me and having this realization. I have this realization now at almost 51. Every day I feel like more of a beginner. And this humility is very good. We must recognize that in our day-to-day lives, there's a long way to go for all of us, for me more than anyone. So, you just have to practice more and more.

You've been calling it out in a way that that intention... like, there is that intention. But like, if I say I love God and I'm not living with God, Father, it's like if I say I love you, I want to message you, I want to check on you, you know? But I don't do that with God.

Exactly.

The word that's coming to me is 'dhong', you know.

Yeah, dhong. Don't like it. It pokes. What is this? Because on the outside it's all, 'Oh, you know,' it's different on the outside, but it's very different on the inside.

Yes. And we can never allow the outside to become a replacement for the inside. You see? So, if we are getting praise in the world but our heart is dry, then the praise in the world can pretend to be a replacement for that, but it can't be. Again, I'm talking about myself: that in the guru posture, there can be a lot of praise, adulation, a lot of respect coming from everyone, reverence. But if I'm not spending time with God and feeling His light and love in my heart, then that is just pointless. So, the world in Maya's design has many replacements for God's presence, for God's love. You see? Ambition, achievement, praise, position, respect—all of these things serve as so-called replacements. But you notice in your heart compass, you see, the heart tells you something is drying there.

Now, in front of 20 people, I said to myself that, no, I want to talk to Father. I don't want to be scared of who thinks... because these are the things that get to me, you know, on a day-to-day basis. So I'm like, no, I need help, Father, because I'm here for this, but I forget it very, very often.

It's very good. May this be so auspicious that you brought it out in front of everyone, that you feel like a spiritual fake, like a 'dhongi' as you said. But I'm not saying at all that it is true, but let that inner feeling be a wakeup call for you to just deepen in that intention, deepen in that fire, wanting to jump into God so deeply. So now, what is the change that this will bring about? That's the main thing. So, one thing is to recognize it, to see it, but then we have to commit to a change, you see. So, will we increase our sadhana time? What is going to change?

Right now it feels... I don't know where to start. Remind myself: what is the purpose of my life? And when I ask that question to myself, I know what I'm here for, but I don't remind myself to ask that question. So, you know, praying is something that I was talking to...

Right. And a complete disdain for anything that the mind offers in terms of self-image. 'What will people think? What will people say? They'll think I'm a spiritual loser.' Let them think. The only losers are winners here in spirituality. You can't win at this game. You have to lose at this game. You have to be also seen as losing. It's very helpful to be seen as nobody special, okay? Because the minute you're seen as somebody special, it'll start playing on your mind. So, it's very good to meet that with integrity. Just not fall for any of these Maya tricks. Self-image taken to be a replacement for the 'audience of one.' That's what we were talking about. Maya has its replacements in the world; it says, 'Okay, you're not spending time with God, but at least the people think highly of you.' That is not a replacement at all. Very good. Very good to learn these lessons at, from my perspective, still this young age. So, it's very good. Is someone getting worried? What is reporting behind? It's good. This is good.

So, when we notice that nobody is in a 100% spirituality and nobody is in a 100% lip-service spirituality—otherwise you couldn't be in Satsang—but when you notice where it is just like the outer seems higher than our true inner, then use that as inspiration to deepen, deepen in God's love. It's very good because we can either become caught up in our pride and not notice, or we can get into a despair that 'I've been here eight years, nothing has happened.' You see this kind of... so this is very good, in the middle. Neither despairing nor being just airy-fairy and in lip service, you see? So, just that gives fire to our spirituality. Let's go. Hi.

Hi, Father. Hello. Hello. Hello. What happened? Okay, no echo now. Okay, I was hearing myself back.

Oh, sorry. No, it's fine now. It's completely fine now. Okay, if it does, tell me. It's good. It's good.

Thank you for showing us Rumi Ji's tomb last time and taking us all there. It was beautiful. Thank you. Yes, thank you, Father. And it was just so beautiful to be there again. I came back. Yeah, it's just so, so, so beautiful, you know, Father. Before when I went, it was such a powerful and alive place that it's just so powerful, Father. One cannot explain; it's just so powerful. And one part of me was even resisting to go there because it was just so powerful. Sometimes you just... some punch, you know, before that. But it was all just, at the end, unexplainable. And it was like this. But first time, every time I was just going there and praying, 'Please just stop this, you know, this burn.' I had a prayer within me and I was just praying for this for years and years. And finally, Father, I cannot put it into words, but it was just like... to say 'amazing' feels so dry, you know? I cannot explain. I'm just so... yeah.

I think maybe—

I don't know, just because it's such a life feeling and I cannot explain. But even this, I think, you know... so just, I don't know what to say. I don't know. And it was so beautiful to remember, Father. Just, I don't know who spoke with you just now, but talking about... I don't know, I also, maybe I'm just so comfortable recently, Father. That's why I also raise my hand. I'm also happy with this comfort, but that's something else. And I don't know, it's like I'm settled in this comfort, and also I was praying for this as well, so I'm not just complaining. But at the same time, nothing is compared with that that I taste again in His presence. But because it comes with a punch and such a burning, I don't know, there is resistance. But I don't know, maybe I just want to ask help also because... okay, Father, why I'm raising my hand is that I'm just so comfortable. I see.

All good. It's beeping on my computer, that's why. Sorry.

Yeah, I'm just so comfortable, and I was praying for my troubles to calm down, and God has granted this to me. And I was expecting that when all problems are gone, I will be with God. No, I'm just spending my time, Father. I'm just fully, fully, fully comfortable. I don't have any trouble, anything. Just God gave me such a comfortable time and everything, and I don't spend my time with God. I don't do this because I fear from burning, Father, because I don't want to go into this burning again. Some fear is there. So I settled in this comfort, and I don't even know how to pray because something fears and takes back from that burning. But I think I'm not happy to spend my time all day sitting in social media. And I'm doing this. I don't even... yeah, I'm not happy with... I'm just sitting in the room and just social media. And pain was my helper. I'm not inviting that again, but I don't know. I just... what's that? I'm just doing this to God so that He can hold my hand, then He can do something. I miss Him, but I need maybe inner strength, something to... yeah. I'm so happy for comfort, but I love God. And yeah, may He do something. I can't even pray. I don't know how to pray. As I told you, I'm still like this, you know, like... so cannot take a step. But even maybe this is enough. Maybe we can go and do something even in comfort. I don't want to let go. I don't know, Father. Yeah. I'm always praying to God: I don't want to come to You with pain; I want to come to You with gratitude.

I need maybe inner strength, something to... yeah, I'm so happy for comfort, but I love God and yeah, may He do something. I can't even pray. I don't know how to pray. As I told you, I'm still like this, you know, like so cannot take a step. But even maybe this is enough. Maybe we can go and do something even in comfort. I don't want to let go. I don't know, Father. Yeah. I am always praying to God. I don't want to come to you with pain. I want to come to you with gratitude. This was my prayer in my hard times and even I was reading this in a story of Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad saying to someone then it is good for you. You can go to God by gratitude. It was something I was just so deeply... and I'm not so far from this but still I need to use my time wisely. Yes, this is the prayer, Father. I need to use my time wisely and with God and it doesn't mean that I will lose my comfort and I need to again just go so much suffering but no, just spend your time with God that's it and it can go sweetly. We don't know, but don't hold yourself back.

That's it. The question and give the answer both there.

Found it. Yeah, I'm so so so grateful, faithful, Father. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Yeah. So I join you in your prayer. May you spend your time with God and may it be beautiful. May it be full of love, peace, joy. Thank you. You're welcome.