Learning To Live in a Sheer Openness Without Certainty - 19th January 2026

But in my experience at least of spirituality, it only makes us more and more open and more and more vulnerable where if earlier I had a sense of what my week would look like, now I don't have a sense of what my next ten minutes will look like. You see, so I don't have certainty. I certainly don't have certainty. So it becomes very in the moment and how this life has to be navigated has to also appear from within my heart. Now in terms of knowledge and will, I have the capacity to mess things up. You see, so avidya is false knowledge. So if Bhagavan said to come to true knowledge, and all the sages have told us—Maharshi, Bhagavan, even Plato—so all of them have told us that we will not collect new knowledge or true knowledge. We will only get rid of false knowledge. And then in the getting rid of false knowledge, we will come to the recognition of that which is true knowledge, which is always ever-present here.

You see, so the minute I come with my certainty, with my ideas, with my 'this should be like this, now this is how things should be like this now,' you see, I'm inserting false knowledge and therefore eclipsing true knowledge. So how do I bring that? We know the process. We can debate it, but basically it's a mind-intellectual process where the centricity is on this non-existent entity called the 'me' and the narrative is full of 'me, me' that eclipses that which is true: the presence of God within and the reality that which I truly am, which is aware even of the presence. You see, so in my needing certainty or in my forcing certainty, you see, we actually eclipse true knowledge—that it should be like this, it should happen like that, this is how I should be, this is how they should be. These are our constructs. Okay. So if I impose even a Guru-disciple construct forcefully, then that is to force the narrative, force the false knowledge on top of that which is true. So it is these labels, these narratives which become the core of our identity, and in the eclipse by this identity is the reality. Yeah.

Now what we are expecting out of our spirituality is something quite different, like most of us, you see, where we feel like somewhere there has to be a glorious finality to our spiritual quest. You see, and that's why we are in this. And I'm here to tell you that if you think you have clarity now, even that may be taken away. Sorry, not the bearer of good news today. So whatever little certainty we think we have is also very feeble. Actually it's fragile. It's just made up of constructs. You see, we don't know really anything for certain. So what this path actually teaches us to do is to embrace this uncertainty. Embrace the complete non-fathoming of the outside as well as inside to then be able to live in faith moment to moment. You see, moment to moment, which is very different from the mind's role model or stereotype in terms of what somebody who's really accomplished on the spiritual journey looks like. Yeah, because then that one is full of self-confidence, that one is full of power, that one is full of articulation, that one is full of all these kind of things.

Whereas all of that is not... it's not self-confidence, but it is God-confidence. You see, it is not necessarily articulation; like a lot of times it is a struggle to be even towards what is being found. So a lot of these stereotypes are primitive narratives, because the mind really can't understand why anyone would, in its view, waste its life if the end is not glorious like that. You see, so the deepening of faith is the deepening of embracing uncertainty, embracing the fact that we don't know really more and more, and reliance on God, reliance on His light, His love moment to moment. So we are not to attach any outcome to our spiritual path. We can't say where this is going, what this will look like.

I wanted to check a little bit more about that, Father, the certainty bit. You know, I feel like I lived my life with a lot of certainty just generally also, like how you were saying that, Father, that repentance is not out of shame or guilt, you know. So I'm sure, like, I'm just checking certainty also doesn't look like I have to be confused about things. It is that, like you said, no, sometimes like the heart doesn't allow you to speak and there are only on certain days just like that. But other times I'm living with a lot of like... I know, like how you used to say, you know, that 'I don't know' but it's like I operate like I know a lot. That inductive knowledge that we feel like it always comes this way, so...

Yes, I understand. But it's that inner something you're saying which is a little bit more... Like the biggest element of certainty that we may feel like we want to have in our lives is the decision making. You see, but mostly then what happens is that we end up operating from the grooves that we've already used. So many times we naturally fall back into those same grooves. You see, if this visitor comes to your house, he wants, I don't know, some money or wants to check something. So then we make our response based on those conditions that we have worked on in the past. You see, but actually we have no idea what that interaction could be. You see, and to allow it to move fresh from there is very important. Otherwise, even as teachers of God, if we get into the trap of learned knowledge, then those become the grooves and then there is no freshness in what is being shared. You see, then it becomes more about conviction about those mental models rather than learning to live in a sheer openness without certainty and reliance only on God's guidance moment to moment.

So grooves is how we get in the way. You see, as we were saying yesterday on the group, that how we have to find our own way to get out of the way. You see, so I said about knowledge and will. These are the ways where we insert our knowledge and my will. My way, my way, my way. These are the things that we contaminate and make our life ego-driven rather than God-driven. So the spiritual path gives us the way to get out of the way. And ideas like certainty and heroism are ideas of 'my way.' This is where I'm going. My direction, my ideas we cannot have. It's a childlike innocence. A child is not certain about where the child is going, how it will be fed, what the actions will be, how much money it'll make. All of these things are alien to a child, but we learn them as we go along in our lives.

And the spiritual heroism is a path full of pride. Remember one thing: that you are not a Guru if you are being a Guru. If you are the Guru, then you are not the Guru. The sheer openness and making ourselves available for the true Guru to use, to consent to be used by the true Guru, is when we share the light of the Guru. So just like anything, like we say, if you're being empty, then if you're like trying to be empty, you're being empty, then you're not empty. In the same way, if you are being a spiritual teacher, then you're not a spiritual teacher because the base requirement is the openness. The consent to be used by the divine power is the requirement.

But it's a very compelling track because you feel like you spent thirty years on a path. What is the outcome? Oh, after thirty years also I'll have to rely on God every moment. Yes. Disappointing. Like, what in the world's construct? What have I learned in thirty years if then I have to rely on God every moment even after thirty years of spirituality? So have you seen how it's very different from other pathways? Such hidden conclusion is not so apparent. Somebody asked you a very basic question. You've been in satsang so long. You see, will you go to God or will you answer yourself? This is the question. That's the whole certainty versus faith. And this is a good question for all of us.

So we ask a very basic question. Um, sister, is there really Atma? Maybe I don't know. That's that basic actually. What's a basic spiritual question? I'll say, why do bad things happen to good people? Very common, very prevalent question. So where will you go for the answer? Oh yeah, you see, or allow God to speak. If you're looking for certainty here and you're finding certainty here, then you will not go to the right place. It must always feel like I don't have the capacity to answer even the simplest thing. And it's not just about teaching, it's about living also, that we don't have the capacity to hold what is called knowledge in the wrong place—true knowledge.

So if you look here, the sages, Bhagavan didn't say... Bhagavan said you have to be free from avidya to find true vidya, to be free from false knowledge, ignorance, to come to true knowledge, you see. Same for all the Western sages as well. But nobody said you can keep both. Would it be? Huh? You go to a party, just use your worldly knowledge, keep your head. You see, you come to satsang, you fall into the heart. Just keep both as modes of operation. You see, but it doesn't happen like that. So other piece of bad news is that... other piece of bad news is there: don't expect to have a life except in God. That sounds terrible, no matter how to help you, but life can move in its own way, but don't expect to have a life of your own. Yeah. So just look like a fool. Don't expect to have a life. Every horrible idea for the mind is the path. I'm exaggerating of course a little bit.

Into the heart. Just keep both as modes of operation. You see, but it doesn't happen like that. So other piece of bad news is that—other piece of bad news is there—don't expect to have a life except in God. That sounds terrible, no matter how to help you, but life can move in its own way, but don't expect to have a life of your own. Yeah. So just look like a fool. Don't expect to have a life. Every horrible idea for the mind is the path. I'm exaggerating of course a little bit.

Father, is that why most of our scriptures or most of the sages, the way they taught, it seems like none of them were methods or prescriptions? It's either mostly dialogue or self-inquiry and or like if you take the Upanishads, it's a story or it's the essence of the essence which is non—like the meaning is not obvious unless you are actually connecting with where they want you to be. Is that you think the undercurrent of why most of our teachings are like that?

Could be like that. Could be like that. Very tough to say. If you look at the term meaning itself, what happens is what can we be looking for ways in which we can instigate that or catalyze that meaning to happen from the true place where the meaning has to emerge or to be revealed, recognized. You see, so what is the way in which that will be? You see, it will depend on temperament. It'll depend on who it is, what kind of conditioning. So there may be one who just needs to hear, "Just japa, don't understand anything, Ram, you'll be fine." You see, but there's a special temperament who will hear that, who is so full of faith and surrender who can just say, "Okay, teacher has told me just do this, forget about it." You see, so then that can be very prescriptive. Then for another, some other words may have to come which will allow this one to drop from the head to the heart because meaning, as we said, has to reveal itself in that true place.

Avidya is here—like I'm making it very basic—but avidya is here and true vidya is here, you see. So what does this one have to hear so that they'll stop this and go to this? You see, how will we first get their consent in the first place that you can safely let go of what's here and safely let go of that? So I feel like every variety of spirituality then is there, from the super simplistic to the just almost ungraspable in every way. See, to get even acceptance of the fact of spiritual revelation is very—it's not easy. Somebody comes with a lifetime of conditioning. They come to satsang and then you say no, but—and they may even be spiritual seekers for 20 years and they come and they've read so much and they've understood so much, all of this stuff, and you say, "But all of this will not help you get the revelation."

Avidya has to go, and avidya can look very nice also, you see. And then true revelation, true recognition can happen in a different place. It's not easy to get that consent, so only God can do this. That's why that sheer openness to be used by God in the process of sharing satsang is very important. So are all of us clear that the region of spiritual revelation is different from the region of worldly knowledge or conceptual knowledge?

Clear. Clear.

So this is the—that "I will not understand" is the highest understanding. Socrates, then of course people all debated that also and said even that is too much. "I know that I don't know," that's why they called him the wisest. Why is that the wisest? Whatever they call the wisest sounds like a fool, like "I don't know, I don't," because then it takes a lot of humility to recognize our limitations. The limitations of the mind, intellect. If you can recognize those and still in some way have the capacity or the inclination to look beyond. It's a very strange game. First realize the limitation of the mind, intellect, still aspire for more than that which the mind can offer. Keep your spirits up. Face mind attacks. Face Maya fighting all of it. And to think we come to spirituality to make our lives stress-free, which it can be.

If you put today's satsang as a marketing video then see, but for years we've heard sages have told us in thousands of different ways, "Your diamond is already in your pocket." Thank you. Diamond is already in your pocket. You're sitting on the treasure begging, begging for food. All these things they told us. What are they talking about? What is the diamond in your pocket?

The true knowledge is there. All that we are looking for is there.

How come we don't know? Because avidya is still attractive somewhere. If we don't see the sheer primitiveness of our mental conclusions and we put them up on a pedestal, then we will not aspire for that which is higher.

When you say that you will not have a life, that's not sounding like bad news at all. You know, I would like if there's an opportunity to live with God, I would, and like I really want to choose that. But I feel like it's seeming very hard to switch, you know, fully switch moment to moment. Even in—because I'm able to tell when I'm relying on this knowledge, then conversations also feel stale. Like I can tell that they feel stale and so I—

So let's put it another way so that it doesn't feel like a sacrifice. Just don't rely on the false. Who—nobody wants to live a lie. Anyone wants to live a lie? Unless you're that guy in the Matrix, you want to live a lie. I don't know, we have to answer that for ourselves. Here at least this became clear that whatever difficulty there may be, I don't want to live a lie. I want to know the truth of who I am. So once we have that spirit that I'm done with falseness—yes, I've done with that which is ephemeral, I want something which is more stable than that—then we stop relying on the phone, on the tinier instrument.

Everyone was told—821 821 2000 0. Thank you. That's a secret code. So once—so I was saying that everyone was told, the sages, the demigods, everyone was told that amrit, the immortal nectar, is to be found in the ocean. And they started to do the process of taking it out, churning the ocean to take out the amrit, all of that. Now suppose there was one man who said, "No, no, no, all that is okay, I will find it on the ground only, I'll not go to the ocean to find it," then what will you say? You see, so our insistence on using that instrument or those instruments which over centuries have been clarified to us that these are not the right places to go for true knowledge—you see, our insistence on that would be like that. I've seen that basically it comes from a place of fear. I'm too scared to dive into the ocean. So I'll try to make it happen on the ground itself. Getting what I'm saying?

So where will you find the Atma? Ashtavakra Gita has told us first line. And if you think and think and think 100,000 times you will not get it. That should be enough, but a mind won't—you ban everyone on this, but still I could be the first. You see, so why am I saying all this? To get you to leave the allegiance to the false one and to tell you that you're safe in the arms of the true one in your heart. In inquiry, the perception—I'm confirming there's no me, I can't perceive a me.

But how are you confirming the reality of you?

The negation will happen through our normal instrument, but the revelation can only happen in the heart.

That's not wrong, that is—

So when you do the neti neti, "I'm not this," so you use your intellect. Because why am I not this? Because it's changing, it's not real, whatever label we apply. So we discard that layer of our existence, then we discard this layer, then we discard the next layer till we come to a point where no further discarding is possible. You see, so that we've reached what? The boundary of our sensory ability and our mind, intellect. You see, now if that was just a dark dungeon with no hope, then why would the sages tell us to do neti neti first? There's a construct that that which changes is not real. Who said they only applied the construct? No. They only supplied the construct. So they supply these constructs. So we come to the end of our capacity of the mind, intellect, and senses. After that, that is where the magic happens. You see? Yeah.

So why say the Zen masters, "How did the goose escape the vase?" Try and solve, solve, solve. You come to the end of your capacity. You can't imagine it in your head that how a goose which is now grown so big that it fills up the vase, how will it escape the vase without the vase breaking? So you can't imagine it. You can't refer to memory. You can't refer to any instrument. You see? So were they just trying to trouble us, all these sages and all these people? No. Because there is a different area of revelation which has been hidden from us. So whether it is inquiry, whether it is neti neti, whether it is Zen koan, whether it is to try and follow God's will, you can only meet it at a different place.

And we were saying the other day that even love cannot be met in any other place but the true place. Yesterday we were talking about a felt love versus the love that we're talking about in satsang. The felt love comes and goes. No matter how much we push, it doesn't stay constant for the teacher, for God, for anything. All that is at the level of feeling, comes and goes. So we can't tie ourselves to felt love. There must be a deeper love. So what is the trick? Follow the fragrance of the felt love to its source. The love that we feel, follow that to its source. Then you come to a love which is beyond sensing, beyond sensory perception. So anything that's true, we have to learn to live in the truer place.

So what is the hope of the teacher? That one of these questions will catch fire in you or one of these—one of this guidance will catch fire in you. So, "Oh, that's neti neti, okay, now I will not leave the neti neti till there is revelation. I'll not leave the inquiry till there is revelation. I will not leave the fragrance or trying to follow the source, find the source of love, till it reveals it, or I will not move till I find God's will in my heart." If it is a spiritual path, there has to be a checkmate for the mind, intellect. It cannot be a spiritual path without that. And it'll be super disappointing if you found spirit in your head. Atma, where does it live? Oh, it lives right here.

For how many of us does Atma Gyan or Atma Darshan, which is the revelation of the Atma itself, sound too far-fetched a notion for little old me? Too far here. Okay. Now I want to reassure all of you—at least some reassurance in satsang today. So I want to reassure all of you that there is no restriction that the Atma has placed. Atma can be found. It is there to be found. It is there to love and to be loved. It is not hiding itself from you. But it will not conform to revelation in the false because then you are stuck forever in the false. You see? So it is for you. Why is Atma in your heart? To be hidden all your life? No. To be revealed to you. Why has He made Himself available to you in your heart? Not a secret agent. To be revealed to you and to be loved by you and to love you and to live you. So it's not out of bounds for anyone. You must not feel that we are too novice or we are too young or too whatever. And the good news is that the process of this self-discovery, this finding the presence of the Holy Spirit in our heart, this process itself is a great gift we give to ourselves.

You want this?

No. I want to cool my—

You want to cool it?

Yeah. It's okay. She wants to fan it. She was fixing. So remember, why is the Atma there in your heart? To be found, to be revealed by you. So like I was saying that day, God has faith in our faith. God has full faith in our faith. Yeah, if you just found Atma like a thought or just an image which is ephemeral like everything else, then what is the point of all of it if it was just changing and fleeting like that heat? What does the final step in the neti neti look like? He said not this, not this, not this, not this, not this. Yeah. Six times. Then where are you? To the mind it doesn't look like anything. It looks like a dark dungeon. Therefore, it can be scary.

God has faith in our faith. God has full faith in our faith. Yeah, if you just found Atma like a thought or just an image which is ephemeral like everything else, then what is the point of all of it if it was just changing and fleeting like that heat? What does the final step in the Neti-Neti look like? He said, 'Not this, not this, not this, not this, not this.' Yeah, six times. Then where are you? To the mind, it doesn't look like anything. It looks like a dark dungeon. Therefore, it can be scary. It can seem to take us away from the certainty of this. At least there's a floor under me. There's a ceiling above my head. If not a ceiling, there's a sky. You can see certainty over some of these things. When we do the 'not this, not this,' Neti-Neti, or the inquiry, all the certainty is taken away. What is up? What is down? What is the reference point to any of this? What is yesterday? What is tomorrow? What do I know? Where am I going? Is anything happening? We don't have answers to any of this, and that can seem scary. You see, but to embrace this uncertainty is beautiful. Because if you stay there, that's why I call it the doorway to God. If you stay there, the magic that happens—if you don't rush and say, 'Okay, I'm here'—magic. Magic in the sense of that which is beyond the universal norms of time and space and sensory perception.

All of these things, how many of us are using our spirituality itself to avoid going there? We maybe don't even realize how much we do that, using our spirituality, thinking, 'I'm just focused on understanding some stuff. It's spiritual stuff. I'm reading this book. I'm watching this thing.' All good. All good things, as long as it brings you there. Suppose you study for an entrance exam for seven years and say, 'I study so much, just don't make me write the exam, just take me in.' It doesn't happen. You have to go to the true place and stay there. So all the preparation should be put to use, you see, and don't be a forever preparer—collecting, collecting, collecting spirituality. We build a spiritual library in our heads, but we didn't go to the spirit. Go to the spirit, and I've told you how to, all the methods. So we can go.

As far as staying foolish to the outer world, sometimes in that process, I generally just follow what others say. I mean, it's too much time pressure to stay foolish and then just follow whatever the others are doing, let's say even for planning for the evening or planning for the next day and all. So if I have nothing coming out, I just leave it to others and then see what happens. It sometimes doesn't feel like an honest thing to do, but it's just given the time pressure.

It's a good question. How does one live when we are empty? How does one? So, we follow God's nudges from inside, but you're saying that if something is too rushed, you see, then I just leave it for life to decide. That's fine, as long as your intention is to be with God's will. Okay. So how to follow God's will is first not to force our own will. That's the primary. You see, if that is taken care of, the rest of it is just nuanced. It'll take care of itself. So if you've taken yourself out of the picture, that's good. But this year, what I want to do is even change all the reports to say now the question is between God and Maya. So if we say that I left it to God, but God didn't provide a clear answer as to what to do in this realm of Maya, then I just let it unfold by itself. But Maya's number one job is to make us forget there is God and He is here. So that little bit of maybe fear, or just maybe it sounds too big to say when we say that nothing came from inside. You see, God didn't tell me what to do.

Yeah. Talk to us. What do I tell to my wife?

No, but at least tell yourself, and you can tell in Satsang. See, sometimes even our external testimonies become like conditions for us. Like if I make an external testimony, then it becomes natural for me to defend it because somewhere it becomes a condition. So don't be diffident in your testimony. At least here we have a safe space. Okay.

Also, Father, in the last few Satsangs, one of the places you mentioned clearly about being ready to be a loser in the outside world. Sometimes, Father, it starts making efforts to be a loser naturally in the outside world, and I have done that. But I can easily realize when the real loss comes, you feel it. So that means it was an external one, but again it all boils down to what we just now said—we wait for His.

So I was saying in the context of the question that Zara and Ganjali had about if I keep my focus on God, it's seeming like my sadhana is taking so much time and I'm not so much into chasing my ambition and wanting, wanting, wanting. And then what I'm finding is that others may be jumping over me in the corporate rat race and all these kinds of things. So I said that if you want God, then we should be willing to make that sacrifice. It seems so strange because if you were studying for the IAS exam, you see, and your friend came and said, 'But why haven't you been promoted in three years?' you would say, 'I'm studying for the IAS exam.' You see? So, okay, okay, don't tell them that, but if you're wanting to meet God, to come to Atma, to Atma Darshan, maybe we can't tell them, but we don't have to fall to despair ourselves in any way because you are studying for a much bigger exam.

So you may be a loser in the eyes of the world because if you were to say, 'Oh, because I'm focused on my spirituality,' they may consider you a bigger loser. Not only are you not being promoted, you're wasting your whole life, isn't it? That's the world's idea. You're wasting your whole life and nothing happened. There's no Atma and all that. Forget it. You see, it doesn't happen like that. Only you have to go to the Himalayas and do tapasya for a thousand years. They have these notions. So you are a bigger loser. So are you willing to accept that judgment? That is the question. So you don't have to force yourself into looking like a loser. Life will make us look like that already enough. Life will make us look, you see, like in this life I was meant to be an achiever in the world and then now most people that meet me from that life, they're like, 'Babai, it's a wasted life,' right? So it's nothing. No, if we are with the love of our life in our heart, what is a few judgments here and there?

The worst thing is the idea that we—it's not the worst thing—but to make God subservient to our productivity is quite a silly notion. There are some books like that: 'The Bhagavad Gita for Better Productivity,' 'Bhagavad Gita for Time Management.' It's all right. It all seems like that which can take you beyond the universe, beyond time and space, to think of it as something that the ego can use—it's at least an underselling if nothing else.

So when I went to Delhi one time, I met Chanda's staff in her office. One of them said, 'How can I believe there is a God? Is there some sign, some revelation? Then I could believe there's a God.' So the Atma is the answer to that. No, it is probably not a suitable answer for that one, but for all of you, you see, the Atma is the answer to that. Because we can have an answer before that, a mental answer, where God is everywhere, everything is God. We all say God is everywhere, especially in India. So God is everywhere. But why doesn't that satisfy our soul? The conceptual idea that He's everywhere just becomes lip service, and many times it just becomes a block. 'Oh, I know. He's everywhere. I know.' But then tell your worries about that fact. Tell your guilt and your pride about that fact. So we don't actually know; what we take to be knowledge is actually just thinking.

So how to meet this fact that God is everywhere? How to meet anything in spirituality? Only through the eyes of the spirit. It's so strange that I need to emphasize this point every day. Spirituality is about spirit. You see, so to find God everywhere, first you must find the Atma within. To find the Atma within, we must let go of the 'me.' To let go of the 'me,' we must not value the mind as the temple of the truth. And we must not feel like it's too far-fetched for me. It is too far-fetched for the 'me,' but not for you. So, first time I see you in Satsang today. Welcome, welcome. So do you feel like Atma Darshan, Atma Gyan is for you? Sorry, putting you on the spot. Feel free to.

It is for everyone.

For everyone. Very—that's the spirit. That's the spirit. You must never get into that trap that, 'No, it's only for one in a million' and this and that. It is for everyone. That is why Atma is there. Atma is there for you to find it, to find Him, Her, whatever way you refer to it, and for you to love Him and for Him to love you. Thank you. Or how about we do a spirituality without spirit? It's too difficult to find spirit.

Is it necessary to find the spirit?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, that it's not necessary to find the spirit, but to have the intention to is necessary.

To realize the spirit.

Yes, that is necessary. You see, at least the intention is important because otherwise what happens is we end up doing a—what is Atma? Atma is God's presence. You see, so God has made His presence available to us in the form of the most intimate presence. Now many in this world are trying to do a godless spirituality, like a godless spirit. 'Let's not involve God. You see, let's love everyone.' How to love everyone without God? Nobody can do it because God is the source of love. You see, God is the source of love. So if you want that much love that you'll be able to love everyone, and that means unconditionally, it has to be in allegiance to God, in devotion to God, that that love comes. You see, maybe the intention to love everyone is a good one to start with. Then we realize our limited capacity as the ego to love everyone, and then we will fall into God's arms. You see?

So, but any spiritual goal, any spiritual task, any spiritual progress, it's not possible without spirit, which is God's presence. And only in spirituality we get this doubt, like it is literally called spirituality. If somebody said, 'I'm starting an automobile company,' and you say, 'Which car are you making?' 'No, we don't make cars.' 'Okay, then which auto ancillaries do you make?' 'No, no, we have nothing to do with cars.' You say, 'Yes, why you call yourself automobile company?' So the need to do a spiritless spirituality is because it has been made unavailable to us. It seemed like it's too difficult; Atma Darshan, Atma Gyan is too difficult. It's not for you. It's for the true sadhakas, like that.

This question has come up before, Father, a long time ago, but it's coming up again in a different way. So if you can help throw some light on it. So like you're sharing, I mean, we should first go there to live life and not to the mind. But are there something like domains? And I don't mean domain as in a domain that is not God's domain. Not that way. Everything is under that purview of the spirit, including the mind. So for example, if I want to know the square root of 576, I don't know where I'll go for that answer, right? So I mean, I can sit in spirit all day long, I'll not know the answer to that. I don't know. I'm asking. I'm just—that's why I'm asking to clarify that confusion. Right. But if I look at it that, yeah, I'm using the mind, which is all again subservient to the spirit, then I don't know, it's again something conceptual is trying to make sense in my head. And I understand that also. But I cannot—if I were to report to you honestly, like if you asked the next Satsang, 'Have you been living in God all the time and not gone to your mind?' that question then confuses me because I would have gone to my mind, in my perception, to know the square root of 576. So have I left? You know, that maybe it's a stupid question, I don't know, but that's where it's coming from.

Yeah.

It's again something conceptual is trying to make sense in my head. And I understand that also. But I cannot, if I were to report to you honestly, like if you asked the next satsang, "Have you been living in God all the time and not gone to your mind?" That question then confuses me because I would have gone to my mind in my perception to know the square root of 576. So have I left? You know, that maybe it's a stupid question, I don't know, but that's where it's coming from.

Yeah. So I have an answer, hopefully which will be satisfactory, but before that I just want to say that Pythagoras—one of them did this experiment exactly with something with shapes and geometry—where it was about the same topic of recollection and not invention. You see? And then they showed this sort of thing and then they said, "No, don't try to invent anything. Don't try to discover anything new. Just recollect from a deeper place and allow it to unfold." And I don't know, I'll find the story and repeat it better, but people like Ramanujan and all these people are good examples of how math—in fact, there's this whole term, right? The unreasonable effectiveness of math to explain some very universal constructs. And where does it come from? Like, was math revealed or was math invented? So many are coming to the conclusion that it was revealed. So it's a very interesting area of study, firstly.

Now, in terms of the square root of 576, I feel like it's all right as long as we don't rely on the mind to be the seller of a complete truth, right? You see? And we use the mental ideas at best as pointers to point us to, you see? Because even after putting the question there—so what is this square root of 576—we don't know what is the process of calculation. Like, how do we say, "Okay, this..." How does even if it was 75 multiplied by 22, what is that process of calculation? We feel like, "Okay, this shows up, this shows up," but what is actually moving for that to show up? So as long as we don't feel like the showing up of the imagery or the showing up for the thought construct itself contains the fullness of the truth, then we are fine. You see, I'm also softening my stand on this a little.

Does logic play a role in the realm of feelings and how does it support or compliment?

Yeah, it's good. Very good. So does logic play a role in the realm of feeling? Firstly, there to a spirit... ah, okay. That's a separate conversation then. But let's start with the simpler thing. So the simpler thing is that what do we call logic, firstly? If logic means that, like, true is not false and false is not true. Is that logic?

Application of mental faculties is my understanding for this question.

Ah, okay. So to apply mental faculty... root of 576... for only for this particular question or for mental faculties for anything?

However you would like.

Like if you say mental faculties when it comes to spiritual truths, you see? So if you say, like, take the simple question we ask: "Where is God?" So we can apply our mental faculty and say, "I know the answer: everywhere." You see?

But that's intellectualization and not realization.

Exactly. Yes. Exactly. So, can it seem to provide the answer? Yes. But is that answer fulfilling to our soul? Is it satisfactory inside? Does our Antahkarana feel happy with that? No. So, what is needed? Revelation is needed for that. Now I would say that the revelation that we are talking about in satsang is beyond the layer of feeling as well. So when we do the Neti Neti, we say: not this world because world is changing; not this body because sensations are changing; not my thoughts because thoughts are changing; not these feelings because feelings are changing. So not this, not this, not this. Beyond all of this, then we are ripe for revelation, you see?

In fact, I would go as far as to say that if it was between rationality and sheer emotionalism, I would pick rationality. Is it because it is more objective? It is like in terms of what I've seen in my life, maybe my feelings are like this, but feelings are just as guides, you see? As experience, they could be quite tasty, you know? Feeling as experienced could be quite tasty compared to thought. But as guides, as pathway definers, I've seen they're very, very unreliable. So that's my experience and you can rely on your experience for that. My basic thing is to tell you that there is a deeper place where the true Satguru, which is the Atma itself, is there to guide us as to what our next move should be, and that is the most reliable guide. But if you were to force me—maybe it's a man thing, I don't know—but if you were to force me and say you have to pick between your rationality and feeling for decision making, I would say I'll go with rationality. Yes.

Can you repeat?

Repeat. So if you would say there's no intuitive insight, there's no Atma, there's no spiritual guidance, there's no God's will, none of that is there. Right now you have these layers. World is telling you something; so you can just go on that. Your rationality, mind, intellect is telling you something; you can just go with that. Your feelings are telling you something; so like anger or fear, all of these feelings are playing out, they're telling you something, go with that. So I would say if it was just restricted to these, I would go with my rationality, which you may find surprising given how much we talk about not going with the mind.

Because fear is the most absurd thing, and I see some of your reports also that, "Why am I feeling so much fear?" And somebody asked this question, then a famous quote saying a child asks, "So if there is no monster in the cupboard, why am I fearing that monster?" What is the answer? Because we cannot impose rationality on feeling. So if I was to lead a fear and anger and lust and all this based life, I would even trust my intelligence for that. You see? But what is the good news? Don't have to. There's a deeper intelligence which is God's will.

Just on that, Father, on a practical day-to-day living, like we've been talking about choosing a life partner for example, and life can be one year, two years, forever—I mean that's not important, I think, in the moment. Like you said, live life moment by moment by going to spirit to live, and whatever comes up. And also you said feelings are almost seductive in a way, can be very seductive. Mind can be on the other extreme, oppressive and too logical and fearful. And you know, when you're making a seeming choice of being with somebody, the mind can play games, the feelings can be seductive. And so living moment by moment, like when you're with somebody, some doubt will arise, right? That's when this even becomes a topic to talk about. If there's clarity, then you'll just live it and it'll be, you'll go with the flow. But when the doubt arises, either through feelings or the mind games, do we just drop that question into the spirit? Literally dropping it, not even forcing an answer kind of thing? And then just what emerges, emerges?

Absolutely. There is no force in the heart. Or demanding. I know that the heart we are talking about is not the feeling heart. That is the seat of God's life, the Atma itself. So yes, there is no forcing possible. It's only possible to approach God with love and to receive what He gives with love. And like I was saying yesterday in the group, that when there is forcing, there is no love. So if you're being bullied by the mind that, "I need an answer," you see, then there's no need to hide that bullying. You see, we go helplessly to God and say, "Save me from this oppression from this mind."

But know that many times the answer that comes is very next step. Next step. Next. So when you're saying about logic, so we talked about this a few times, that Western logic is only yes or no, right or wrong, true or false. Eastern logic used to have four ends, which is: true, false, both true and false, neither true nor false—which itself is enough as a Zen koan for us. No? Because we're just not used to it, like we got so conditioned in the Western way that we just can't... like, what is both true and false? What is neither true nor false? It's like a Zen koan. But spiritual questions, then the Buddha would always answer by saying the fifth. You see, now the fifth is a beautiful place to live. So the fifth corner of logic we can stay.

You see how the thread is in everything that we're talking about? We see the limits of our mind, intellect, and even what is the capacity that they have, and then is there more? Is there a possibility to find a deeper intelligence, a deeper love, a deeper beauty, deeper joy? It's only in satsang that... wow, it looks like it's snowing outside because it's so warm in this room. So in satsang, no, you come and then as an answer mostly I give the answer that, by the way, you don't know this, but you know, you thought you have a two-bedroom house, actually it's a three-bedroom. Yeah, because there's one room in your house which you have never really seen or valued or remembered, you see? And everybody says, "Is that... that's really bad news." But shouldn't it be good news that you have an extra room in your house? And by the way, that is the master bedroom. You see, that's where the true master lives.

What is it? It's just basically that I couldn't have been so wrong all these years that I don't even know what faculties I have. Isn't it like that? Must be like that. I have my senses, I have my mind, I have memory, imagination, I have all of these things, I have these emotions. Now don't go telling me about something else. See, like, "I will make everything fit into this only. Tell me what you want, God, okay, I'll make it fit there." But why not in His natural home? As the Vachana said, He loves to, He delights to stay in your... so why is there not the joy of this good news? If you had an extra room in your physical house, you'd be happy. Sometimes we become greedy, like this old man who has been gifted a new car and driver but he says, "No, I will take my scooter," like that. So you've been told that God's presence is here. It is for you. All you have to do is not value the limited instrument so much. Don't fall for the "me" so much and you can live with God. But mostly I'm treated like a snake oil salesman. You'll see, there is just a lot of self-limiting belief.

Just on what you said, Father, like on this using the mind for let's say a mathematical problem, I think what's coming up for me now, it seems like I finally understood what you're trying to say is even like a simple thing like a square root, the first person who figured out how to do a square root, that intuition would have come through creativity, not through a mental process. And now that...

Through revelation.

Through revelation, yeah. I'm calling that creativity, it's coming from a place we don't know. And so now today, because I have those tools, I'm giving that credit to the mind, but it's just a stored wisdom of the spirit and the...

Exactly. Thank you. What is the boundary of what can be discovered within yourselves? Then why do we go grasping? Huh? It is said that, you know, these famous authors, Tolkien and Lewis Jr.—Tolkien and C.S. Lewis—it is said that they did not invent Middle-earth and Narnia. They discovered them. Both of them have said that they discovered them within themselves. They discovered the whole mythology, the whole everything, the characters, the language. In Tolkien's case, he has a full language. You see? So discovery. And what have the sages told us? The Self is not something new that you will find; it is what reveals itself when the avidya is taken out. What did Maharaj say? Same thing.

J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis—it is said that they did not invent Middle-earth and Narnia. They discovered them. Both of them have said that they discovered them within themselves. They discovered the whole mythology, the whole everything, the characters, the language. In Tolkien's case, he has a full language. You see? So, discovery. And what have the sages told us? The Self is not something new that you will find; it is what reveals itself when the avidya is taken out. What did Maharaj say? Same thing. Just allow yourself to dive into the unknowing, and there God will reveal Himself to you. You see? So, this discovery versus invention. And in the modern world, we are stuck in this grasping, grasping, grasping, grasping more like that. You see, have we first discovered what all is within us?

You see, and Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi's statement should be very important. It's not something that you will do. It's not something you will get. It is not something that you will find. When ignorance is wiped away, the true Self will reveal itself. What is ignorance? Yeah. So, is the identity true or false? Yeah, it's false because it's fleeting. It's fleeting. It can't be found even for a moment. Actually, you see, who is the 'me' that owns this body? Who is the 'me' that has a job or a bank account? Who is there? Is the body bothered about the bank account? The body's not bothered about the bank account. Who is bothered with the bank account? The body's bothered? 'My boss shouted at me.' He's not bothered. Maybe the moment some—it became—the face became red and all that, to that extent, you see. So, who is that? Where is it? So, that is ignorance. You wanted to ask something.

So, it revealed itself in the comments. So, in that recognition that there is no such 'me,' letting go of this false one, what remains? You are still here. You saw the false one is not here. It's just a made-up idea with a name. It is a label attached to form, but you are still here. Which 'you' is that? Who is looking through those eyes? How do you know that you're awake? And what knows the difference between the sleep state and the waking state? So, as long as we're not grasping to the ego, not holding our pride too strongly, all this truth about what we really are will reveal itself to us.

So, we're not to come to Satsang to get spirituality. We come to Satsang to allow ourselves to be empty, to be open, so that the revelation can happen within us. That change in posture is very good. So, one came to Satsang and suppose that they can repeat everything that is said, which is also good—at least you were listening. A second came to Satsang and just exploded; something exploded within them. And they didn't hear most of it, but they just came so empty. All the trying stopped. All the grasping stopped. Then God's presence shines through that empty—such a... I remember some past that you said, these questions like you said, 'Move a little right, a little left. No, you're...'

What I felt then with that is like it made it so ridiculous for me, like I'm trying to find the right, like correct, the right position, like, 'Oh, here, like I am the Self' or something like that, you know?

Just yeah. All of you, just a little to the right. This right? Whichever feels right, whichever feels wrong. Like that. If you leave your mind for a bit, like, 'I can't make sense of this.' Try it. It's very nice. Conceptual sense-making then feeds into the false sense of identity and eclipses the light of God. Okay, there's some questions. Shivani is gone. Okay. Then let's go to... Oh, she's there. Okay, she can come after. An is not here. Shivani can come.

Hi, Father.

Hello.

Just bring me a bit closer. Um, I don't know what my... what it is. I don't know what my question is, but I know what it's around. Yeah, because that thing has kind of dissolved it in a way, but I know there's still something that I need help with to do with it. Um, I struggle with like... I've recently become aware of like what they call complex PTSD. So I'm understanding the science behind the brain and all that sort of stuff, what happens to the brain and that kind of thing, which I didn't know before. Um, so what kind of happens is I get tangled up with like, 'It's not real,' you know.

And it is real.

Ah, yes. Yeah. Yes. Like it's relatively real and, you know, so I get a bit tangled up like even to the point of like, 'Do I go see a psychologist? Do I get help on this level, or do I just forget it?' You know, that's... and I... and there is like a need, there is a need for it, relatively speaking, because it's a mess. Like, it's messy, the conditioning and the expression, and it is very messy. It's not something you can ignore. So that's mainly that. It's just something like that. There's like a... I go back and forwards between acknowledging it and just dropping it.

I see. I see. If help is available, there's no harm. There's no shame in getting help. And just because we are in Satsang doesn't mean that we should close ourselves to any sort of help which is available in that way. But remember that both can happen together. We must not leave God, especially God's hand, whichever form of Satsang we may be in. If some other layer of our existence is getting help, you see? So, if it was not psychotherapy but it was physiotherapy, you see, then you would not say, 'Okay, now I can't come to Satsang' or 'I don't want to come to Satsang because I'm getting physiotherapy.' But it often happens that those in psychotherapy then feel like they can't come to Satsang or don't want to come to Satsang. Once we see that it's actually different layers of our existence being helped... and psychotherapy is good, is helpful, but doesn't allow us the possibility of surrendering to God's love and light. You see? And I feel like a lot of healing happens in the process of surrendering to God's love and light. So you can... you can...

But both... both seems right, Father. Like, but the problem is like when you start speaking, it feels as if it becomes even more real. Like, you know, like, 'This is what I've been avoiding.' Okay. Just like it just seems to become... yeah, it just digs a hole deeper into the reality of it, which is where I get kind of tangled up. Because the science behind what they're saying is that it's a bit like being stuck in a... your body is stuck in... let's say you had a car accident, you watched someone you love die, your body is kind of repeating that experience over and over and over again just because of the way your brain has developed.

So it's there. It's a real experience that's happening now physically in the body. The adrenaline and the cortisol and all that stuff, you know, the chemistry, the body chemistry is experiencing it. So it's just like I'm a bit...

You feel that like even right now you feel this thing?

It comes. Like, it's called... they call them emotional flashbacks. That PTSD is a bit different; you have actual visual flashbacks, but this is like the body suddenly, suddenly pumping out these chemicals because the brain has developed as a default. So it keeps doing that, and it keeps doing that when the environment around you has changed. The body has got like a kind of a default setting.

And you feel that if you keep talking about it, then it'll seem more and more real. But how do we see between whether you're repressing something or in the talking of it, it'll be given more reality? That is the balance we have to find.

Well, I don't really suppress. I'm a bit of an oversharer. So, it's not really about suppressing. It's more about getting too attached to the...

Ah, yes. You have outlets where you're able to share this with friends and people around you?

Uh, yes and no. But Father, it's because it's quite messy. Like the whole reason I didn't start saying it is because I was a mess. I...

As in, you say, 'I am an oversharer.' Who are you sharing with? I mean, just in general, if someone is talking to me about anything, like I just overshare as in...

Yes, that I'm aware of. I remember. I'm saying in this particular case, given what all you've gone through, have you been able to share this with someone, with friends or relatives or...

Yeah, in the past, yeah. And a bit recently. But there's hesitancy to get the ball rolling in that direction because it gets very messy.

So if your attempt is to spend time in God's presence, do you find that this PTSD-like situation gets in the way of that?

That's a very good question. Um, it takes up a lot of attention, Father. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I don't see any harm to get some experts into the picture as well and see if... and test it out. I mean, if it doesn't seem to be helping and seems to be making it worse for some reason, then we don't have to get stuck in some long-term modality of things. But if you find that there is something which clears up some inner pathways and you're able to be more effortless in God's presence, then there's no harm in trying that. What is your main practice now at the moment?

Um, dropping. Dropping things. Dropping it. Yeah. And then I've got like this sentence, basically: 'Be in the presence of God.' Like, it that kind of stops. That's kind of the stopping mechanism when that comes to my mind.

And how is that? So, I know it's very difficult and maybe an unfair question to ask, but what percentage of time during the waking state would you say you're spending in God's presence?

I don't know. Not much.

So we need to find you a way in which that can become more.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd say 20 minutes a day, like in bits and pieces when I'm like, 'Okay,' you know.

You need to increase that to a lot more, slowly, without forcing. So, a lot has happened while you were away. You know about something called the Atma Darshan Samadhi, ADS? No? So we'll get someone... I can send you a link to it also. So see if that resonates with you. That may be a straightforward mechanism to come to God's presence, or inquiry, or just taking God's name—whatever appeals to you. We can find you a pathway so that you can spend a few hours every day just in God's light, in God's love, which is the most healing, most healing place to be. So, if the pointer is just like a dropping, like 'I'll drop,' usually it's a long time before we realize we've come to a place that I need to drop. Isn't it?

So, we can also look at... have you heard of Father Thomas Keating? Keating has a beautiful process called contemplative meditation. So we could look at that as well. So will you send me a WhatsApp message and we talk more about this? And we'll try out some things and see what's resonating with you in your heart.

How do I do that, Father? Do I have... do I...

You have my number. So just send me a message on WhatsApp.

Australia WhatsApp is not so popular still. You have my number? Uh, I'm not sure. I think I do. In my contacts I have it.

But you can just send me a message, or even if you send me a text message, I'll get it. I'll tell you what to do. Okay. So basically, don't worry. Like, don't be tangled up so much because... just do both. Just both levels are fine, because that's what I've been getting tangled up with.

Yeah, there's no harm in that. There's no harm in that. But keep checking in with your heart and see if it is helping, and don't get into things when your heart is not fully in alignment with that. Okay. And we'll find something for you to practice because that is one thing that changed in the seven years while you were away, where I've gone from sharing mostly about no practice at all to needing a practice to lead a life in God's presence.

Yeah, there's no harm in that. There's no harm in that. But keep checking in with your heart and see if it is helping, and don't get into things when your heart is not fully in alignment with that. Okay. And we'll find something for you to practice because that is one thing that changed in the seven years while you were away, where I've gone from sharing mostly about no practice at all to needing a practice to lead a life in God's presence.

Yeah, I'm glad, Father, because I have really gotten to the point I just can't do it. I'm completely happy to hand it over to God and completely open even, which is kind of like—

Is there a form of God that you resonate with the most?

Well, yeah. No, I like completely grew up criticizing anything to do with religion in my family. The complete opposite. So, but even from the naming ceremony, there was like an opening and just being in satsang and meeting Christian people who kind of showed me the beauty of faith and just, yeah, it's been happening slowly, Father, just that openness about it.

But is there a specific expression of God which you resonate with the most? It doesn't have to be—

Jesus definitely, but I think that's a bit tainted with like—that God is kind of tainted for me, but I don't know any other God. Shiva. Shiva basically. Say Shiva, but if you first Jesus came, so we will untaint the name of Jesus for you and—what am I like? The God that goes with Jesus. Like I've always felt like Jesus was speaking the truth, but I feel like then the God part's been tainted in the world.

Yeah, you have missed out on a lot of satsang in the last few years. We've gone through this whole cycle and I was just joking with Claudia sometime back because Claudia came to India first time to Bangalore and at that point I was really starting to share about Jesus and the Abraham and Isaac story and all of these things. And she said that, 'I came to escape this oppressive sort of Catholic Christianity and here when I come to India, that's all you seem to be talking about.' And she took it one step further also, which we won't share on the podcast. But have you watched the show called The Chosen?

No.

You have to watch.

I actually recently learned about Abraham and like very recently and I was like, 'How? Why did everyone just believe that he got to have this end and God spoke to him? How did they just believe him?' And then when you mention him, I'm like, I don't know. Something just happened there. I was like, because he did. But I've always questioned that, like why did everyone just believe him? He turns up and then everyone's just like, 'Yeah, right. Take the land. Off you go.'

Anyway, we'll talk about the Jesus prayer. Yeah. And we got inspired by the Jesus prayer so much that I use it myself. Okay, I'll send you the Sumati videos and I feel like it's really helpful. It's really helpful. It would so help on the psychotherapy front as well as something that keeps you anchored in God's presence more and more.

Thank you. Love you.

Welcome. Love you. Okay, here now.

Thank you so much, Ananta. I came to ask your help and I don't know, I didn't prepare this now at all. I don't know what's going on really. It was like a full day where it was so easy and peaceful and wherever I went it was like I am home everywhere. I was watching the people and it was so much peace. And the next day, from the next day now for Thursday, I'm full with fear and anger and I'm shaking. I'm scared from life and from humans around me and everything just turned to the other side. I cannot really overcome. I don't understand what's going on, what came up and why, but at the moment I feel that as much as I was deep in this beautiful field of grace, as strong this kind of monster came inside me. It's like a feel, I don't know who it is, but even Ananta, I felt like I don't even deserve to be here anymore.

Deserve? See, but what is the qualification criteria for deserving?

I don't know. The last satsang you were talking with this girl, I felt I can never be like it. It is not possible. It was so touching, this humility. Sometimes I didn't pray anymore. Sometime I just said to myself, I don't feel I am free and I am pure enough to—

So I'll give you some good news. But we have to end with the laughter. Yes. Yes. What is the position that you got troubled the most, or what happened?

I don't know what's happened. Sometimes the clarity is not that tangible for me. What's going on in here actually is never too much. It's just there was a day that was like being in God's heart and from the next day all was just the opposite, scared and anger. And I watch all the world and everybody with anger and fear.

So on Thursday you felt God's presence and light so much and next day it vanished. Now do you feel like God's presence actually vanished or the force that we call Maya hypnotizes us to make us feel like He vanished?

Of course the second, Ananta, but this has so much power, so much power like never before. It's just for days now I prayed, I investigated who is the one who is just getting stronger and stronger, and sometimes I feel I am a monster.

So shall we try and break its spell now?

Yes, please. Please.

Yeah. So, are you saying that God is not here with you right now?

He must be here. I just can't see.

Where will you find Him? Just front of me. For one moment, just don't worry about anything and just visit your heart and tell me if He's there. Huh? I can't make out yet with the laughter. Looks like a bit found Him. Looks like she found—she's feeling too sheepish to admit now after saying all that. Huh? Not there?

You found it, not me. You found it.

Okay, that doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. As long as He's there, that's okay.

I just want to hold your hand. I just want to be at your feet, Ananta. I will miss every moment, every second, not without a second I cannot bear this. I am nobody. I am nobody without you. I don't want to be anybody. I don't want to exist. I don't want to exist. I only want you. You just take everything. Everything. Take my life. Take everything.

This is a good report.

I don't mind to be crazy until you are with me, Ananta, until you are me. You are me. I am that.

Yes. Yes, you my child. But the one who lives in your heart, I'm just a servant of that one. Just a servant. So my Master is already with you in your heart loving you, blessing you.

I love you so much. So much.

Love you. Thank you so much. Okay, let's go to Dan.

Like something is always just very clear when I'm here somehow with you. Like something is so clear that when I'm not here it's very hard to have the same clarity and I just ask for your blessings that the clarity that I see here should continue even when I'm not here with you in the field of this. It's very clear somehow but it's harder when I'm in the world. And like just before coming, I was doing some work I had to submit very quickly and I realized that when I'm doing the work sometime I get like it feels like I'm somebody doing it. Um, like because I forget somehow. I don't know, I've been trying every day but I just find myself just forgetting about the true place of seeing. I don't know what happens. It just happens like that. Although my intention is to stay in that, I just find that I just—but then when I finish I realize that it's just like that somehow. I don't know how to explain it. And the clarity of the position of seeing when you speak is so clear as to how the pointing is to be assimilated, the place where it's to be assimilated. And I'm so grateful that you've shown me that God has given the power to be able to switch that. This is the power that we inherently have as Consciousness to switch from the 'me' into the Spirit. That it is true that this is true and I'm grateful that you've shown that it is possible and true to be able to do it, that it's truly possible to switch.

I have to say that the same thing happens with me also. Many times during the day I forget. Many times I have to remind myself to come back to the true place. So it is said that this Maya is the force of forgetting. The force that makes us forget about the reality of God. And I don't feel anyone except God Himself can say that they are fully free from Maya. So we are all walking this road together. Let's all just keep reminding ourselves constantly to return to God's presence and to be in His light. And whatever little I can do to be in service to this for you, I'm here. I'm always here for this.

Bless you. The other day I was walking with a friend and we were speaking about—because I don't speak about somehow, I'm unable to speak like I speak to you then—and like a Christian and I were speaking about Jesus. And some became very clear like that God is in them but I just couldn't tell them. I just couldn't like tell because it just didn't come that the one reality is in them.

And it'll come. It will come. You will tell them. You will tell them. Bless you. Bless you. Bless them as well. Very good. Very good. Okay, let's go to Di. Thank you.

Hello, Father.

Hello. Where have you been? Nice to see you in the chat. I saw you the other day also. Good to hear from you.

Thank you. Yes. I've been at my mom's for the last months and she's not so well and I was helping her and also I was working a lot with my brother. But I wanted to also speak to you because I feel I got a bit busy with stuff and a bit, yeah, I've been trying to still do the practice and pray and see it, but it feels a bit distracted. Like lately, I've been a bit really like too much involved in things and I don't feel true to my heart so much and it feels a bit hard to come back to. But I just felt to say something. Eric, how's mother's health improving?

A little bit since I came, but very slowly. She was really, really like weak and skinny. Now she's a bit better, more stable, but still can't do too much by herself. But thank you. I felt your prayers from the group were helpful. And thank you to everyone.

Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you. When life seems to make it difficult to stay with God's presence in our heart, we can just—if you're doing the EDS or whatever practice you are doing, you can just say it vocally for some time or say it faster for some time so that it finds a groove again. So what we're doing is we're replacing the old grooves of the mind and creating new grooves to the heart. You see? So every time we remember God, we add a brick to the road to God. So just look at it that way. So the more you remember Him, the more you say His name, the more you—even if it feels like you're doing it mechanically, start with that. You see, because many times when there are so many things which are taking our attention and space, then it seems like we can only do mechanically. But you'll find that that mechanically itself will take on its own momentum and return you to the heart.

Every time we remember God, we make a—we add a brick to the road to God. So just look at it that way. So the more you remember him, the more you say his name, the more you—even if it feels like you're doing it mechanically, start with that. You see, because many times when there are so many things which are taking our attention and space, then it seems like we can only do mechanically. But you'll find that that mechanically itself will take on its own momentum and return you to the heart. You see? So what is the practice that you're using?

Um, I'm sitting and sometimes I'm—every time I do the ads for a bit and sometimes I just feel my hands or feel have like a kind of body anchor that feels sometimes grounding. And sometimes I just pray with my own words like, "Please help me" or whatever comes, and sometimes I ask help from different saints that we have in our religion. And I try to sit for one hour in the morning and one in the evening, but many times I don't do as much as this.

It's very good. It's very good. So, and just the last—in your ads do you—what is your arrow prayer at the end? Is it Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus?

Yes.

Yes. So you can just—if, because I was just sharing, I think just after the broadcast the conversation happened that if you're not clear about what you have to do constantly. So all that you're doing is very good and you must continue to do all that you're doing as you feel in your heart, but there has to be like a base. Like a base, which means that when Maya is tempting, when the mind is tempting, then we don't have to sit and decide, "Should I do this or should I do that? Should I just sit?" Because in that decision itself, most of the time it won't happen, you see. So if you had a base practice which would be your constant companion and anchor throughout your day, and then when you have space then you can switch to whatever other practice for those minutes, but then return to your base. Almost like a home-based practice, you know, that you feel at home, something just brings you to God. So I would say that if you take the arrow prayer part of your ads and just use that constantly, then that will keep you more anchored into your heart throughout the day. You see?

I will try, but I do find it difficult sometimes. Yes. I try, I try and I just lose it all. Sorry.

It is difficult for everyone. It is difficult for me also. So, like in my case, my base prayer is Ram constantly, just unbroken Ram as much as possible. And then if I feel like I want to take out some specific time and do the ads, then I may do the full ads. If I want to just sit in quiet contemplation for an hour or two, then just to sit in that quiet contemplation. Or if I want to listen to some bhajan or something like that, all that can happen on top of the base practice. And I'm also just learning how to do it like this. So throughout the day, as much as possible, I try to remember Ram and I've noticed that when there are too many distractions, if I go a little faster—so if I go inwardly just Ram, Ram—then the distraction doesn't feel as much. But when there are lesser distractions, then what I do is I just take his name and allow him to respond. Ram. So in that giving him the space to respond, then I just feel his presence. I feel like he's loving me like a child sometimes, you see. So then that relationship deepens in that way. But if it's a very distractive sort of thing, then sometimes just to speed it up and just Ram, get used to our own rhythm. So I'm not prescribing a rhythm. I'm just saying some tips that we can use when it seems difficult. And in a few days you will find that it'll just become inwardly. Although initially you may want to use your tongue or your mouth to remember the name over and over, but in a few days it'll just become natural to happen inwardly and then very beautiful things, like it falls into your heart, all the processes can play out. So let's try this for a few days and if it's too difficult, when we speak next you tell me.

Okay.

And don't feel guilty. Like if you forgot about it for a full half day, you forgot about it, but then you remembered and you came back to it, it's fine. It's fine. I do this all the time. I forget about it.

Sometimes I feel kind of caught with some topic and it feels like I'm not genuinely with God, and it feels difficult to let go of that thing that is kind of obsessing in my mind.

So that's the whole idea, is to be free from the topic. You see, so it is—in India the sages, some of the sages say vish, which means that the topics have poison in them and we replace the topics with God's name, you see. So that is the attempt. Of course we will not be 100% successful when we start. We may be only 5% successful, but at least that 5% poison we've taken now. So that's good. We can just follow this. And as I said in the group yesterday, that I realized that as I'm taking his name, then I'm not interfering in his will, I'm not inserting my will onto his presence. So then that allowing of his presence to move becomes more natural. So don't worry, we are all learning this together.

Thank you.

And remember that no situation is ever made worse by taking God's name in it. You see, because the mind will fight it with all kinds of things saying, "But now is not the time." But you see, all these kind of things will come. But remember that every situation is only helped by taking God's name. Okay, let's go to Elena. Hello.

Hello Ji.

Hello my dear.

Can you hear me well?

Yes. Yes.

Okay. Um, I do not have really much to say but I just felt it would be good if I just now and then keep in touch with you. Yeah, because I feel I was very happy with what you told to Davey. It was also very useful for me and I'm really trying to stay in touch inside and it—I cannot, I don't know how to say if I can say it's really changing some things. Yeah, things are changing, the way how I see things. But where I wanted to ask you for is I also feel that sometimes that brings arrogance about this.

I see.

And I don't want that. I don't want to choose that. So I would really like if you would bless me for that, if I can leave that, because it's not my doing at all. I can never do this myself.

Very good. Very good to see this. And you're right that we can sometimes fall into pride about, "Oh, my practice is really deepening" or "It's showing me so much." You know, all of these messaging can come. Whatever you notice in the heart is absolutely fine. But when it becomes about the practitioner, you see, about the practice, then it can cause trouble. So you're absolutely right to spot it at the right time and just offer it up to God's presence and to remember truly that we don't have the strength to do this. It's only in God's strength that this is possible.

Yes. Thank you so much. And I'm really happy that you are able to be here so many times a week again. I'm very grateful for that also. Thank you. Thank you.

God's grace. Thank you. Okay, thank you.