If It Is God, How Can There Be a ‘But’? - 29th January 2024

Yes. So the thought has to come and say, 'He's being so unfair, he's not right.' Something like that has to come first, isn't it? And also, if the thought was, 'But he's so right! I'm going to change my life now. Thank you, Dad, for this transformative conversation.' Dad will be surprised on the other end: 'Put my daughter back on the phone!' But suppose the mind's interpretation was that, then there won't be any trouble. Does the event itself determine the outcome in the form of which thought the mind will produce?

Then why... like, it just hurts so much. I don't know, something just hurts and it's so painful.

It is symptomatic of this worldly condition, this human condition. That is why the only escape, the only antidote, the only refuge, is to be in God's presence. That's why I keep saying there is a holy presence within yourself. When you stay with that, that is the true Father. He is the true Father. That doesn't mean that you will ignore and neglect everything your biological father says, you see, and get into this pride that 'I am with my true Father.' That is not what I'm saying at all. But once you're with the true Father in your heart, then He will guide you. He will move you as to how to respond even to this seeming onslaught that we seem to get from our relationships. Can we live like that? What stops us from living in that way?

Even, Father, I was praying yesterday, you know. Sometimes it just... there's so much... oh, sorry, there's just so much. Even when I'm doing the Mala, I just... the days where it's not a fight from the mind, those days are just easy.

The days where the mind is not fighting, those days are easy, yes. And that's why I don't propose a cave-type spirituality. You escape from the world and you're secluded in a cave, and then the mind doesn't have so many to pick on or to cause trouble with, so it can seem easier. But in our day-to-day life, where relationship, work, money, body—all these things seem to be full on—that is where true spirituality must shine. So don't expect it to be easy. The choice is simple, but living that choice is not easy.

What is the simplicity of the choice? It's the minute I come here, it just... I can stay in God's light. And once I make that choice, I'm here. But like Guruji said, you choose. The questioner said, 'When I'm in the head, I'm the body-mind, but I'm empty, I am nothing.' And that nothing actually is the no-thing. So do we have that power or not?

That is... okay, so now what is it? Don't go to the mind now. No thinking. Just quietly keep your eyes straight. Try now. Now. Something also doesn't want to give it up because it feels silly that it was such a big thing. Now, Father just saying 'now,' can I really admit it's gone? But it's actually gone. Did the mind get you while I was not looking? No. Yeah, just 'but, but.' Yeah, it'll say, 'But, but you haven't resolved it. You haven't found a fix. You haven't found a solution.' So let's waste another day, another week, another year resolving this, and then that year has been spent away from God's light again. And how much time do we have? Do you see the trickery in this?

Yes. Even when, Father, when I'm... or something, no...

Your mind is not going to say, 'Oh, it's your prayer time, let me leave you alone.' Yeah? Is it going to say, 'Oh, you're praying? Sorry, I didn't know, I'll come back later'? It'll try to offer you these things more when you're turning towards God. When you're living in the light of presence, the mind is not just going to give up. So when you say, 'Yes, even when I'm praying,' of course! Especially when you're praying, it will come with distraction.

But yeah, it's like before I start only, I feel like it's game over. But there's nothing, nothing to say, Father.

The thing is that I may keep saying that it is God's presence in your heart. I may say God lives inside you, inside yourself. But as you deepen in your meeting with God in your heart, this has to become apparent and clear to you. Then it is not just about being troubled or being peaceful, you see? Because both of them, the 'me' wants that, you see, to be peaceful. But it's really about God or me. As long as we are hankering for something out of this state, we want something in this state, then it is not true spirituality. Spirituality is not meant to make us peaceful. It's not meant to make us joyful. You see, those are the byproducts, and good if they happen, but byproducts are not essential. Essential in spirituality is Spirit. What is Spirit? Presence of God. Why is Spirit to be valued? Because it is God's presence. It is out of this world, literally. Now, in the mind's framework, there is no such thing, you see, because it can only fathom this universe, this Maya. So when you meet that which is beyond this time and space, the mind realizes that its game may get over. So it tries with all its might to pull you back in. Can you hand over your life to God, or you want to solve all your problems first? And I'm saying to all of you, because if you wait to solve all your relationships, all your money, make the body healthy, all of that, and then there's time for God—that time never comes. This moment, what is most important? What is most important, you see? So either I'm speaking rubbish, you see, and the mind is saying the truth, which is that actually God is not that easy to find, it is just an idea, it's a construct—is it? Or He's a reality. His presence is true. And if His presence is true and He is there with you, what else can we be concerned with? So I keep repeating this: if Krishna was in the couch in front of you, or He was sitting next to you holding your hand, tell me what you would be saying. If Krishna is here, would you know? 'It's so unfair! He's there, but life, life is so unfair!' Like that you report, no? So there is a lack of faith that happens in the human condition where, even after having insights that this one, the one that we recognize as our presence, is actually the presence of One which is beyond this universe, we normalize, we regularize the most important discovery of our life. And we say, 'Yes, yes, when I'm with the presence it's fine, but when I'm in the mind, you know, this happens,' you see? But whose presence are you talking about? So if I told you that there's another universe within yourself and you have to meet Jupiter or something like that—there's a whole planet inside you which is bigger than the largest planet that you see outside—you'd say, 'Really? Wow!' But I'm saying that the Lord of the universe, the one for whom this whole game is nothing but a mosquito, you see, that One lives inside you. 'Yeah, you know, when I go to that presence then it's fine,' you see? So there's something which normalizes it, isn't it? It just makes it regular because we hear it every day and such. So we don't realize that He is the One. He's literally there in your heart—not in your physical biological heart, but in your spiritual core. The One that you may call Shiva, Ram, Krishna, Jesus, Allah. How much reality do we give this? And the ability to give this reality is faith. It is not belief. You take what your heart is showing you to be the truth and to neglect what your mind is trying to tell you—the stories, the narratives, you see—that needs faith. So how long will we play this game of postponing God without realizing? Remember, when God is not seeming real to you, know that you are in Maya. When does God not seem real? When the 'me' comes and when the 'me' is believed, that is Maya. So it is God or me, literally. The lane is too narrow. In this satsang we heard the—it was amazing—the question was, 'Yes, we may know God, but does anyone, has anyone lived in it?' And immediately Guruji said, 'No one.' Because that is that 'me,' the person. It doesn't go together. And then what did he say once that recording was over? He said, 'Now, 16 years later, you see, then that one would stand up and be ready to leave.' I would stop him and say, 'Have you met what I'm speaking?' So that instruction is very important. It is very important to meet what is being spoken of, to recognize what is being spoken of. Also, this about the mind we heard, so just something more is coming to say about that. Why I feel like it was very important what he shared in the video is also because once you hear that, 'Oh, nobody can live it,' the mind may also translate it into saying, 'Ah, yes, okay, then when it happens, it happens.' So it's very important that he said that. No, no, okay, once you meet that, once you come to that, there is no 'me' left to live it anymore. It lives you, actually. But it is important for us to meet that, to recognize that. How to give that importance? To remain as empty as possible, to inquire, to pray, all the tools which have been made available to us. Does God live in your heart? Intellectually you're saying right now. Are you saying because you know here? Are you saying because you know here in your heart? Then why leave? Because if you know it here, then you will leave because the same one who's offering you that will offer you some more notion, some more idea, some more narrative, and you will trust that because you bought it from here in the first place. Then you'll buy the next thing it is selling you as well. But once you recognize heart guidance, once you recognize intuitive insight, then that will never take you away from God's presence if you remain with that, you see? Now you're in trouble because you have no guarantee that your life will then move according to your plan, you see? So then what do most of us start doing? Juggle, juggle. Little bit like that, little bit like this, you see? Balance. And that is the phase of the spiritual struggle where the spiritual seeker looks more troubled than the ones who have never come into spirituality. They came to spirituality for peace, for end of suffering, and then the mind itself is beating them up spiritually: 'You're not good enough. You're not following. You're not using the pointing. You are not worthy. Look at what you're doing. God lives in your heart, look at you,' you see? Same. So it is hearing the words in satsang, maybe more carefully than you, and using that to beat you up. You see what Ananta said? 'You are just not following.' Don't fall for that trick. It's the same one. So how many of you—and the question is to this man also sitting here talking all this—how many of you are willing to give up every plan, every outcome, if that is the will of God? May there be integrity in this and may this become our truths, because then the mind's temptations will not be so alluring. What does the mind tempt us with? So suppose you had a plan one day you will retire in Switzerland, and then the mind says, 'Ah, if you just do like that, do like this,' or you see an ad, 'If you just do like that for this, do this, do this, then you can attack...'

Sitting here talking all this, how many of you are willing to give up every plan, every outcome, if that is the will of God? May there be integrity in this and may this become our truths, because then the mind's temptations will not be so alluring. What does the mind tempt us with? So, suppose you had a plan: one day you will retire in Switzerland. And then the mind says, 'Ah, if you just do like that, do like this' or you see an ad, 'If you just do like that for this, do this, do this, then you can attain.' But that is not what God is guiding you; that is not how God is moving you. So, when the mind offers these temptations, they're not attractive because you want to follow only God's will. So you can be empty for the love of God. It's much easier to be empty for the love of God than to be empty so that I can be peaceful or I can come to the end of suffering, because this love for God is a beautiful anchor. Or you can be empty for the love of truth; it's the same thing. Because 'empty for me' doesn't work, and that's where many seekers get stuck as well. 'I want to be empty so that then I can be... then I can be like that.' Then it's not empty at all. We are carrying that 'me' quietly saying, 'Are you empty enough yet? Can the me's life be good?' It doesn't work like that. You get a sense of what I'm saying? If there's selfishness even in emptiness, then it is not really emptiness; then it is make-believe empty. But if it is for love, if it is for truth, if it is for faith, then that is beautiful.

So, how are you all remaining empty all day? Yeah, when the mind tempts you, then what do you use to come back to your heart? Are you able to notice, or has the day gone by the time you notice? And I love honesty, so don't feel shy to tell. Don't feel shy ever to bring it to me. Many times it could be... I remember the times here that the intention would be to chant, and those days I was just chanting 'Ram Ram' and I was doing some likhit japa also, doing all of that. Then something... the day starts with best intentions. You start, you do two malas, and then something, something, and night—it's already night. Ram is gone. No, this something... the day is gone. So if it is like that, don't worry; it happens like that. But pick a tool. That's why I'm saying use a mantra, do the inquiry regularly. Many times you'll just end up believing that you spend the whole day empty, but then when you are asked to chant and you say, 'Oh no, the mind resists so much,' you see? So it's not like the mind is not there during the time where you just feel that you're empty; it's just that you're not noticing it. To be empty with the stick is always easier; with the support is always easier. So don't get into any trick like that.

And when we say we dedicate our life to God's presence, to God's light, we have to do that, okay? It cannot just be our intent to do that; we have to live like that. We have to live in our heart. So the inquiry is a beautiful tool. When the mind tries to tempt you and you're picking up a call, start inquiring or start chanting or start some whatever tool works for you. Especially if there's one who pushes your buttons. So these little, little tips you can start using, like wake up, first thing is turn to the presence of God. Don't leave your bed. Let your appointments get delayed, let everything happen. That sets you up very well at the beginning of the day. Then whatever resonates with you, whatever helps you—you have so many tools now. You can pray, you can chant, but don't spend the whole day with your mind. Break that cycle, break that way of life. Otherwise, spirituality for you will end up just being an intellectual understanding, an intellectual pursuit, but not really a life lived in God's life. And I know most of you... please give the mic.

Father, you were saying when um... then, then...

So how are you spending your day in God's life? Uh, what is your toolkit?

The prayer has been the most. The prayer has been the most.

So you start your day, you wake up, then?

Yeah, then I start with the mala and I start praying with that as soon as I wake up. Sometimes I'll go for my... I'll go to my phone and I check for five, ten minutes, but then there's this thing that, you know, you have to pray, you have to pray. So that has... like today morning, I woke up and then I pray and I prayed. And then...

You come to God's presence. Do you feel His life?

Yes. I was just about to... can I also say that bit? Huh? Can I also say that bit what I was going to say? Can I... can I also say the bit that I was going to say? Yes, yes, sorry. Like each day, um, like I recognize what you're saying, Father, that when I pray and there is that... um, it's very selfish, you know? It's still that this, like you said, the seeker is praying, you know, that to make my life better, you know? And and there is also like a paradigm...

But what is the prayer you're using?

The Kali prayer.

Where does that have 'make my life better'?

It doesn't have. I'm saying that the overriding intention is like that. But Father, I... I... I know when I'm praying from a place of prayer, like with as much sincerity as you can muster...

Yeah, you see, but also if you're praying just mechanically, then it is all right. It is better than not praying at all. The mind will always use that because you can always be more sincere, yeah? The mind can always say, 'You are not sincere enough.' So don't fall for that blackmail tactics. And then, so you do the Kali prayer, then?

God's presence is apparent.

Or it is apparent, but like... it is God only, no? Then how can there be a 'but'? This is exactly the... I know I'm not letting you finish, I realize you can catch me and beat me up later, but it's important to make this point over and over again: that if it is God, then how can there be a 'but'? It's like saying, okay, tell me honestly, if you woke up in the morning, yeah, and you met Shah Rukh Khan—

I don't like him.

Huh? Who would you like? Ranbir Kapoor?

Hmm.

You met Ranbir Kapoor. You woke up in the morning, you met him. The Ranbir Kapoor, not a duplicate, not something on the TV. Really, he came to your room. Huh? Then how soon will you forget that incident or that moment?

I remember it for some time.

For how much time?

For months, at least one day.

At least one day. Now, if you come to God's presence, what happens that we can say 'but'?

This is what I was... yes, same, Father, that um... I don't know, I can't find... seem to find the words at all.

I don't... I keep cutting you off. This is exactly like how you're saying I'm being like a... other dad, no? He has episodes when he's all in support, otherwise he's all like against. If I catch him on... I can see it both ways, by the way. I've been on the other side of the phone also. Most parents can see it both ways.

Oh, Father, this is what I'm talking about, that um... because now I'm... um, some... I'm struggling so right now that it's been... finally come to God's light that it feels far. But when I'm praying, it's not. Some days it's not; it's very evident, Father. It is.

So if there's something you could do that, you know, you could have Ranbir Kapoor on speed dial, so then what would prevent you from using that speed dial?

If I want to better something in my life, then you know, that's when I...

Or what can be better than God? And am I saying that to live in God's light is to become vegetative and to become a sadhu? Which could be better, actually. But suppose that in our idea it is about some other kind of productivity, then there is no rule that living God's life will not be auspicious in that sort of way. But you cannot latch on to that particular outcome. So what am I really asking you? I'm saying why are you not living in God's life moment to moment? Don't you can? Or no?

I can.

Then please do. We must. And this is a lifetime adventure. I'm not speaking from a position of saying I am doing it, so you must also. I'm not saying I'm 100%, you see? So I'm also in the same journey of deepening in my love for God. But I don't know any other better way to lead a life than in the endeavor to deepen in His love. Can you tell me a better option? I'm turning 50 now next year. I want to spend this whole life feeling that this is it. And then my children didn't tell me, 'Ah, but there's something better.' So if this is the best, then we must all follow.

I tell you something, please. I feel like each day when I start, each day is like there's a... each day is a failure. Like each day is a failure.

Is a failure? But each day you're carrying the intention, the commitment, and then you fail, is it so? But each day are you fully in it with all your mind? I'm trying... I can't see a scale of one to ten.

I just remember something, Father, that when it's like God for God's sake, when I'm really... because there's nothing better to do than pray to God. When it's that, then there's no report card or anything of that sort; it doesn't matter so much. But um... like right now it just... this just...

Okay, every moment stay in God's light in your heart. Just feel that you're the longest one in satsang; it's been 12 years. Huh? And this is the only instruction I've ever given you: stay with God's presence every moment with all your mind, and when you fail, return quickly. Nothing else at all. And I'm saying it as a badge of honor, not as a rebuke, that you've been here 12 years. You can do it. So you must know. You do it or no? Can you do it or no?

Yeah, yes. I just... no, but yeah, there's no turnaround anywhere like there... nothing...

That's God's presence right now. Right now.

Sorry, no, you notice the two compartments well.

Yeah, so this compartment, this compartment—don't go here. That's all. No matter what the temptation is. Even right now, things come alive.

No, Father, when you believe... like when you believe something, now where are you?

The door. I'm not believing, I won't go now. I'm trying...

This is who the checker guy... leave, leave that.

Why is it becoming so? Do you feel scared?

Yeah, there's that.

Better to experience the fear than to avoid meeting the one that is in your heart because of the mind. Experience whatever the world has to give, this human condition has to give, but don't avoid God at any cost. Because what happens then otherwise is we can keep playing this game for lifetimes. I can keep saying God is there, God is there; you can say yes, but... yes, but... When will this game end? There's no end to the mind's doubts. God's light, God's presence every moment. And when you fail, the attempt is not to understand why you fail, what happened, why doesn't the mind stop—none of that. Just return home.

So it is um... that we should not be wanting to have a so-called better life, a better thing, better what we say. It should not be 'God for me,' right? That's what... and we understand the essence of this. But now when you're speaking, I'm just thinking, but actually we are choosing the highest bliss and in a way we are choosing the best stuff. Yeah, and um, so that is also 'God for me,' right? I mean, not 'God for me,' but I'm on this path because I want to let go of the heaviness and falseness of these years that I've lived like this. And I know I want to soak in that energy, I want to follow that will. But I know I'm also not dumb, so the reason I want to follow that will is also it's much better than my own. But so in that way, it's better for whom?

No, better in the sense that the bliss in life is so beautiful when one is doing this. Okay, so maybe you are valuing your own quest, but let me put it to you this way: suppose that by living in God's life you get no joy, no bliss, nothing except that it's true. So like the character in The Matrix who we were talking about that day, who may say, 'Yes, I know all this is a program, but I can eat my steak and I can taste my wine, so I prefer to be here,' you see? So if I was to say that to be in God's light is completely stark and naked, nothing—what is the truth? Would you still be up for it? So we end up undermining our need for truth more than... and the mind tells us, 'Oh, you just want to be peaceful, you just want to be joyful.' But somewhere in us, we want the truth of reality. And for that, many of us are willing to let go of everything the world has to offer. And when I say the world, I...

I can taste my wine, so I prefer to be here, you see. So if I was to say that to be in God's light is completely stark and naked, nothing—what is the truth—would you still be up for it? So we end up undermining our need for truth. And the mind tells us, 'Oh, you just want to be peaceful, you just want to be joyful,' but somewhere in us, we want the truth of reality. And for that, many of us are willing to let go of everything the world has to offer. And when I say the world, I'm talking about all phenomenal taste. Truth for truth's sake, God for God's sake, not for any byproducts or side benefits. And I can say this for most of you, although you may undermine yourself, that because you can come to boring, irritating satsang like this, you must have a deep love for truth. It's not possible to come here without that. And truth is not that you have to be an intellectual; truth is not something you hold in your head and blurt it out. Is not the truth deeper? Somewhere, something feels unfulfilled. Stuff of life. Someone asked before the mic goes, someone asks why you come to satsang. I doubt if any of you says, 'Oh, because there's some bliss or some joy,' because that doesn't last anyway.

Even in Father, that statement sometimes seems paradoxical, although it's not. There's not like a lot of resistance against it, it just creates some paradox. Which one? That I'm here only for the truth. I'd like to believe that, but maybe it's words. Why I feel it's a paradox is ever since I've been coming here, it may seem like going to a gym where it hurts and it's painful and poking is happening and stuff is arising and pointers. So in that sense, maybe I understand what you're saying, that yeah, it's not about bliss or joy necessarily all the time. But at the same time, it's like going to the gym in the sense that ultimately, like after a gym, the body feels fit no matter how much it hurt while doing that. And there is a sense of satisfaction, I would say for lack of any better word. It's not joy, it's not bliss, it just intuitively feels good to feel fit. Similarly here, every time I leave or when I'm coming here, there's a sense of fitness, like psychological fitness. So I can't say that there's no benefit and I just show up because I love truth. I do love truth, but I don't think I love truth and massive suffering either. I'd be lying if I said that. And I would say also that sometimes when searching for God or reconnecting with the Self, there may be a lot of suffering going on at that time, but now there is a deep sense of confidence that even if it takes an hour, two hours, might take a whole day, if I just sit and follow what you have asked us to follow, eventually the light shows up. So yeah, I'm just trying to reconcile my own paradox by talking. I don't know.

Yeah, thanks. So okay, so in maybe a simpler way that I can express this is to say that you come to satsang, there's usually Kesar Prasad available. Like you have in the Gurdwara, you have Prasad available, you see, usually. But one day if it is not there, then don't stop coming. Yes, yes, it happens naturally. It's not like, you know, programmed or planned or anything like that. But will plan that has many hands. Sanuk Ma? Sanuk, then Ma.

Father, Father, I keep changing prayers. Is it okay? Changing prayers, changing prayers, changing prayers.

Tell me, for example, what what are the ones you're using?

No, I mean sometimes I'm very attracted to Kali, sometimes Shiva, sometimes Guru.

What is the frequency of changing?

I don't know. It's every day... no, no, no, every week maybe.

It is still... when you use the prayer, when you say the prayer—'use the prayer' may not be the best way to say that—but do you feel His light, His presence?

Yeah, whoever I'm connected to, I pray to them, Father.

And you feel the presence?

Yeah.

It's fine. I don't want to say you must be consistent because I was very inconsistent myself, but that's not the pointing. Okay? I've shared these struggles with you where it is just the mind would just stick me. This was before, when I was very young into spirituality. So I chanted Ram a lot. I feel like most consistent was Ram. But then after a week or two, the mind will say, 'Why are you chanting Ram? You've always been a Shivite. Try Om Namah Shivaya.' And anybody—this is guaranteed, right?—if you just chant Om Namah Shivaya with sincerity, something happens, you know? So just like, 'This is my mantra then, Om Namah Shivaya.' Then after a week: 'What have you done? Don't you remember you were always a Ram bhakta? Try Ram.' And anybody who chanted Ram with intensity can tell you it works. I just kept shifting. Then it became Om Jai Jagdish Hare. So it kept changing like that. Never very, very consistent. I can't tell you you must be.

So is it the mind, Father? Is it the mind?

What do you feel? Were you guided by your heart to do it?

It could be. It's not that I was guided, just connected. I feel love for someone, I just start.

It's all right. As long as your intention is to be in His presence. And which way you call Him is not... the method is secondary to your intention. But if you feel like you are picking, then be as consistent as possible. I'm not picking for... remember that method is secondary, okay? God is not foolish. If one says Ram and another one says Rama and another one says Shiva or another even mispronounces it, God is not going to get confused and say, 'You know, you called the wrong one, I can't come.' Your intention to be with Him is what is most important.

My question was all... since you introduced the prayers, I was so much drawn to the prayers. I did them but not really intensely. And just the last weekend when there was a lot of time here, I really went into this, the Jesus prayer, really strongly. And there was an insecurity. It was... you said, I remember you saying, when we pray we should mean it. And to me, it went a bit in having an imagination of Jesus, and then I found it's not somehow not the right way. And I always ended up with just staying with the words. And I found if I just stay with the words, this is already somehow enough. It makes me empty and it makes just... it's like even if I stop praying, it goes on. It still goes on from alone somehow. And I just wanted to check if this is okay.

It's fine. As long as it leads to emptiness. As long as it leads to that emptiness, empty of 'me'. And it was also particularly when I felt inclined, 'No, don't pray, rather to sit just in silence for half an hour,' then I decided, 'Yes, now it's time to pray,' because something in the mind opposes. Yes, yes. As long as you can spot between mind and heart. Because many times after prayer, you may just want to say, 'Let the heart...' I do step by step. The initial guidance is just the starting point. After that, you have to try it out, see what happens, work with it. It's part of a beautiful holy process. Some say it just like that, you see, like that. It's still better than nothing, but it may just be like that, just lip service literally, you see. So that may not work. Or they may have an aversion to the word of 'sinner' or 'have mercy on me.' See, the pride may get hurt to ask for mercy from God, so they may be just doing lip service with the prayer. But if you try it both ways and you feel like truly you come to His light, His presence, if you just repeat the words and that really helps, that's fine. Your heart will guide you. Moment to moment it will guide you. It's impossible really to templatize and say it must be like this for everyone. Like some find to be anchored in love to be easier than to say any prayer. They find it so natural to be. Some many, some prayer, and then the love seems so apparent and you can stay with that. Some may just not like either, they may just love the inquiry. That's fine too. Just inquire. Story about Annamalai Swami: he used to be very distracted with ashram work and things and talk and things like that. So the story goes that Bhagavan got a hut made for him outside the ashram and told him, 'You go stay there and your only one job—food will be sent to you, everything will be taken care of—you have to inquire all day.' So then that put an end to it, distracted mind, and he became Annamalai Swami.

Yeah, so I just want to expose this relationship I have with prayer. And for the past few days, it's been a journal entry and just this... I'm leaving it open to... and I see how much this 'checker guy' has deprived me of the joy of praying and the voice that comes in it and says, 'Who am I to be praying to my own being?' And yet when prayer happens spontaneously, it's the sweetest thing. But I noticed how this checker guy has taken so much away of this love to pray.

Your being loves to pray. Your being loves to pray because your being is a part of God. It's an aspect of God. It loves to pray to its source. In whatever way you love it, its source loves it. There's no being, there's no Atma who's ever refused or resisted prayer. Like saying the Atma is part of the Paramatma, so it will not pray to the Paramatma. There's a deep love in your Atma, in your spirit, in your being for God. It's the deepest love. And every form of love, expression of love for God, true expression of love for God with integrity, your being loves. My Atma loves to pray. Your Atma loves to pray. So very good you spot these things. Very good you spot these things because sometimes when Gana Yoga becomes held in the intellect, you see, then the intellect uses it to oppress you in this way. Really check next time when you're praying, what aspect of you is praying? It's not your mind. Your being itself loves to pray. And it's interesting because I do notice when there is mechanical prayer that happens, the drive to mechanically pray is actually a secret... like there is a personal taste to it. And so there is like some true recognition in that. The mind reminds you to inquire 'Who am I?' It still works. Like Guru says, 'Don't shoot the sheepdog, let it gather up all, let it take it to the being and let the being pray.' Even if you start mechanically, just in the... you can experience that, isn't it? You can experience the diving, the deepening in your heart. Then you say it happens by itself. It's called Ajapa Japa. Without doing the chanting, chanting happens. Japa. Where is it happening? It is under the control of the being, the Atma. So that's I feel the Ajapa Japa, being praying, being praying to its source and to itself.

There's another type of praying that happens here as well where it's a yearning. So it's like it's not really personal, but it's also like it's not really... I don't know where to place it. But it's different from... because that the first one, Ajapa Japa being, it's full of love. It's full of love. Whereas this one is full of fire and the pain of separation drives it.

That kind of longing is also love. So I could trust that when it's still not a person driving it, and even if it is a person, still trust that. Just check a guy like you said, how which one, how to... that's why the method is secondary. You see, method is secondary. Intention is to be with God, to meet God, to be in His presence. Now the checker guy will use that also: 'What's your real intention?' Anything I say, it uses. That's why I call it my arch-nemesis.

Can you say more a little bit about the yearning? Like the genuine fire for God. Where is that coming from? Who is it?

Your mind cannot have a genuine fire for God. Trust it. Trust it. It's okay. So many sages, Sufi ones, the Bhakti ones, have written such beautiful things about this longing. 'When will I find you? When?' And I think this is where the checker guy comes in. When that fire is there, it's when the checker guy says, 'Who are you to be longing for your own being? You know you that is.' Don't become the police to yourself. It's the most oppressive way to live. If the truth the mind could understand, then you would just read one book and we'll be done. 'This is the set of rules, this is how it works, this is the handbook to finding God.' It doesn't work like that. That's why even in the holy books, we find things seem to be this way, then this way, then this way.

When that fire is there, it's when the seeker says, 'Who are you to be longing for your own being?' You know, that is—don't become the police to yourself. It's the most oppressive way to live. If the truth the mind could understand, then you would just read one book and we'll be done. 'This is the set of rules, this is how it works, this is the handbook to finding God.' It doesn't work like that. That's why even in the holy books, we find things seem to be this way, then this way, then this way, then this way.

One of you said—I don't know if it was you—but no, it was somebody earlier who used to come. She said she read, like properly religiously, she read all the talks with Bhagavan. And because she was reading it like properly and making notes and things like that, she's like, 'I'm so upset with him.' Like, why are you upset with him? She says he's contradicted everything he said. In one chapter he said like that, next chapter he said like this, then he said like this. So why is it like that? Why do the sages seem to contradict themselves so much? Because it's not linear. You can't escape this mind linearly through staircase understandings.

I was actually watching a satsang that I had a conversation with you many—like a year ago. And I was like, I wasn't even hearing, you know? I felt like the mind was really working, but it wasn't hearing anything, wasn't hearing anything. So this tool is—you can't rely on it at all because the insights keep deepening. What happens is that many times we may meet it at a particular level of understanding, we say, 'Yes, yes, yes.' And then we hear the same thing one year later, 'Oh!' And then one year later, 'Ah!' It may happen that I may hear that satsang and I may say, 'I didn't really understand what I was saying then,' you see? And now as I hear it, 'Ah, this is what the heart was sharing.' It's constant deepening, constant insight.

And then there's one more element to the praying question, sorry. Um, so a couple satsangs ago, you talked about how whatever 'me' remains, even after there's even the greatest sages of all time, there's a 'me' that remains. And for them also, maybe this was just a question held on to my mind that I'm now asking because it doesn't feel alive—you already answered it—but the 'me' that remains, its job is to revere God and be a true bhakta, to be in love and servitude to God. But is that a 'me' like the conventional 'me' that remains, or is that just the remnants? It's like ashes. Who is this one? The one who wants to know the answer to this? That one must be just left in true love and servitude to God. Kept him, not left. Which one? That one.

See, that's this one. This one. Because that one can be the understander, the thinker, the one who knows now—all of that. And those are variants of the spiritual ego. So rather than any of that, just head bowed down in love, deep love to God, and waiting like an instrument to follow His will. Which is the one who must be left in servitude to God? The one who says, 'Who is there to be left in servitude?' That one. The one who is truly one with God has no problem hearing it, that you must be a servant of God.

One with God—if I take myself to be Ananta and someone tells me, 'You have to be Ananta's servant all your life,' okay, the one that resists that is the one that is still the 'me' who remains. And its voice is what? 'That doesn't make any sense,' you see? 'That doesn't make any sense. But I'm one with God. That doesn't make sense. Why should I serve Him?' But who does that also sound like? Ravana. Ravana is the biggest villain in India. So words are right, but the essence is missing. So the one who says that, 'Why should I serve God? I am one with God,' that one should be kept in bhakti, in servitude.

So on that, it feels like that one, um, it's a potentiality to go either in the direction of mind or to just stay. And so before it becomes that one, there's a remnant, but it's not necessarily a person. But just keep that remnant at the feet of God and don't let it take the shape of a person.

Exactly. That one is trying to reinvent itself in a new spiritual garb. 'I'm so enlightened, I'm so free. Where are my disciples?' And then talking to our family, 'Then you guys won't understand.' I used to have like that. So Gima would come back from a tough day at work and she would say, 'You know, this happened to me.' So I would say, 'But who is this I who's feeling upset?' And I don't know, and I feel like your partners have a very good sense of this. So she must have spotted that I'm just showing off and not genuinely trying to help, you see, in those days.

So that one becomes the one who becomes proud of their spirituality. It's a very explosive character, can cause a lot of trouble, cause a lot of trouble. This one thing is coming to see. When that 'me' starts to take the identity seriously, or the knower or the spiritual finder identity seriously, then that leads to a lot of trouble. And here in this country and many parts of the world, we've seen that we start to believe that just because the world puts you on a pedestal, this name and form, this body-mind deserves it, or there's something special here. Nothing good can come out of that. Only trouble.

So you kids have to keep this one in check, truly. I mean, if you ever find that he's just like so much... I feel like that Pastor Chan's test is very good. He said, 'I had a sermon with my family, with my group and congregation, and then I heard later that they kept talking about how great I am. And I was deeply upset because the point of the sermon was for them to speak about how great God is.' So that's very, very important. All of you must have the courage and the openness to point that out if there's something that you don't like in the satsang or something that you don't understand in this expression. You must always point it out. 'What is that about? You do like that. What is that about?'

Because thankfully, I don't feel like I'm that foolish to believe that only gospel truths come out from here, or only the best things come from here. I can be as foolish as anyone else, maybe worse. Okay? So that one can start off very simply. But I can see in this life already, in the twelve years of sharing satsang, how easily it could have gone in that way. These children start coming, they start calling me Father, they start putting me on a pedestal, touching my feet—all these things start happening. And He kept this 'me' that remains in check. I could easily have bought that narrative about being a Guru and being special, being everybody's father or some nonsense like that.

So to remember that the reverence, the devotion is coming for the presence within the heart that speaks from within, and this bundle of flesh is nothing. There's nothing in this. All that is good only comes from God that is here, and all that is foolish comes from the ego that remains here. So, but I see how that spiritual ego could have played its tricks. That's why I want to keep seeding all of this with all of you, because everybody is constantly sharing. You don't have to be a spiritual teacher to share. You're sharing with your friends, you're sharing otherwise. Maybe one day you will share with thousands and millions, who knows? That's why I want to seed this with you: that never believe this, believe your own PR, as they say. Recognize your own stupidities, your own frailties. This life is a constant work in progress for everyone.

Good. Can you say something about worrying? Because I feel like I'm sinning when I worry.

Yes. Usually I say that if you're going to worry about it, you might as well bring that to God specifically. And don't say that I don't bring specific things to God. But there are just some times where you can just give yourself a—it's okay. So for a few weeks, do what you want. Your holiday period from Ananta, in the sense I'm giving you license to just—you want to worry, you worry. You want to cry, cry. You want to do... because there are times in life where, see, she's going through a situation right now where something is happening. So it's for her to tell, but it's okay. As long as you keep coming to satsang, it's all right. Yeah, I was just—you can make a route from your head to your heart, whatever is coming in your head as much as possible, but don't beat yourself up about anything at all. I'll tell you when it's time for full-on satsang again.

Okay. I just found it harder to come back to God today.

Of course. When these things are going on, it's very possible, it's very likely. But what happens is that if you make a battle out of it, then it can seem even more difficult. If you give it some free space in these times, okay.

Kish has a hand up here. I don't know, I felt really strongly to say that I'm not an upstanding devotee at all. I'm the worst. And I make a lot of mistakes, you know, very selfish. And this life is not a reflection of purity, and it never has been. And maybe I'll be completely—

It's sounding like 'father like daughter' to me.

Oh, I'm nothing like you. You're so much better and you're so much more loving.

It's because the gray hair. I do have gray hair, it's fine.

And I, you know, Father, maybe I'll be the worst example of a devotee and that will be how I serve God, I don't know. But it's very humbling. And I know that even if I'm completely rejected by Guru, for example—let's say worst case scenario—and people only remember the worst in this life, I know that I really... it's only for God. And I'll keep coming back to that no matter how hard something may seem, and even if I'm being poked because I know it's the false. But I will always come back to God, I know, because I know that that's the only thing that matters. Even if I'm the worst at it.

Yes, yes. And for ones who can say that, 'My life is just in service to Him, my life is in service to you,' it doesn't matter if you're the worst or the best devotee. If your life—if you know that you will keep turning to God, then it is not important whether you listen to every instruction or you listen to no instruction, whether you're the worst or the best. It doesn't matter to me because my life is just, in whatever small way I can, is just to serve Him, to bring, to spread this infection of God's love. And I hear the truth in your commitment that you will always turn to God. So I will always be in service to you, even especially when you don't recognize that I'm in service to you. Because when we have these times, we have whatever conditions all of us have, then when we're being pointed to, it doesn't always feel like our teacher's trying to help us, our teacher's trying to guide us. We can feel very different than that. But I will always be in service to you as long as your intention is to turn towards God. And I hope you will give me the right to point out and to chop when needed, if I see that the intention seems to be to focus on the 'me' instead of God.

Yes. Yeah, good thing. You have the permission to do that. And always, there's full permission. And yeah, and even if there's resistance at the beginning, it's always seen eventually. Thank you, Father. Love you.

My child, don't worry. I love you too. Hello, my dear. Yeah, you hear me?

Um, yeah. About the severity of mind attacks, of... I mean, I know Father, you say run back when you've lost God's presence, but it's really difficult. It's the severity of the mind attack. It's like, I've been following your instruction and I called God's name, and in the beginning it would feel like an easing, subtle easing of suffering. And then somehow it felt to inquire by 'Who am I really?' But last night, the middle of the night, the mind attack was so strong, it felt like the 'me' was going in the black hole. I can't explain it. It's like almost being encompassed by madness. But then an old mantra that I was given kept coming, and that felt—that was the only thing that was keeping some kind of anchor.

I called God's name and in the beginning it would feel like an easing, a subtle easing of suffering. And then somehow it felt to inquire by 'Who am I really?' But last night, in the middle of the night, my attack was so strong. It felt like the 'me' was going into a black hole. I can't explain it; it's like almost being encompassed by madness. But then an old mantra that I was given kept coming, and that felt like the only thing that was keeping some kind of anchor. So, my question is: Is it okay to keep changing? I know you sort of talked about it, but is it okay to keep changing because it feels very dynamic? It just feels very dynamic, what's needed to hold on to God's presence. So, thank you.

Thank you for this question. I feel like it's a recurring theme in today's satsang, so it's very good. I would just want to repeat that the method is secondary to the intention. So, if your intention is God, and God is supreme—the Supreme Intelligence—so we don't have to be that concerned about the method. And we are just starting out, no? Because we just had this conversation a few weeks back. So, as you're starting this practice of turning back towards God, things will reveal themselves to you. They will come in this way. So, we can trust that, and as long as our intention is right, you will not go off track.

So, you can change to this mantra, you can follow it. And as you go along, as you deepen in this, there comes a point where it is not advisable to change because they say, you know, the great sages have told us: You've dug a well; now you don't want to leave that midway and start digging a new one, which is what the mind will try to get us to do. But because we're talking about our whole life and decades of our life still to come, it doesn't matter if you feel like you're coming to something which is bringing you deeper into God's light for the first few weeks. There's no harm in doing that.

I was also sharing that with this foolish one, changing his mantra always, and still God took such great—is taking such great care of him. That's a good example for all of you not to worry. As long as you have His love, His light, His devotion in your heart, you'll be fine. You'll be fine.

Thank you.

Very welcome. So, if we are having this conversation two or three years down the line where you've really just been using one name of God and then saying after three years, 'I want to move to this,' then we really examine more closely whether it is God's guidance or whether it is coming from the mind. But for now, it seems very natural and organic, so there's nothing to worry about.

Thank you, Father. I also call Shiva's name. It's a bit—I don't know—it feels... and each time it happens, I feel like in my body like a wave of cooling shiver or a wave of tension leaving. And I don't know, but you give me permission to chop and change for the moment?

Yes. And because of your circumstances, because of your life situation, it's very important that you made this switch. So, I'm very happy to hear this, and this will bring back the Helen that I remember well in love soon, I'm sure. Not that I don't love this one; I love you.

Thank you. Arin is here. It's so strange to speak to you on Zoom now.

Yeah, I know. Father, I'm traveling, so it's a blessing to have the opportunity. But thank you. I just wanted to report and really request your help and support. My journey into spirituality sort of began after a painful episode in my life when my dad passed away very unexpectedly, and it just left me with a very deep sense of helplessness and guilt also about not being able to serve your most loved ones in any meaningful way.

Whenever I revisit my family home, it's sort of that this... I feel like it's like a test because what happens is the mind comes, these memories come back. And so I try to stay with the presence, but then I do feel also the mind coming back and some of those old thoughts coming back. And I couldn't live—I mean, in other words, they are so painful that you just... I mean, there's nothing, you can't coexist. I mean, it's binary, like you have to shut the mind or nothing seems worth living for. So, in a way, it's a very raw mind attack. And I'm just, since I'm in that situation again, I'm starting to stay with the presence. But if there's anything else I can do in terms of my sadhana, service, devotion, anything else you can advise and any support you can give, I'd be grateful for.

Very good, very good, very good. How many days, how long were you there? Ah, did you mute again?

Yeah, I'm here. I mean, I'm here for a few days, basically here for a week. I came on the weekend and for a week. I think I have to report that there are times when the mind attack is very ferocious, and then I also fall into the sway, and then it's just not good experiencing. But I'm also able to catch it, and the sense of presence and the sense of wanting to transcend is also very, very strong. Almost can't sleep at night; it's just this constant craving for wanting to sort of tame this sense of being the mind-body. So, there's this kind of a little bit of both.

Yes. So, the only additional advice I have for you now during this week is just to, as much as possible—and it will sound strange, of course—but just relax as much as you can. Just be as relaxed as possible. It's just a week or ten days. Just... and then you're back to satsang, back in Bangalore. So, all the coaching has already happened while you're here. So, you're fighting a bout then; the bout will get over, and then we'll fight the next round together, and the next round together. It's a lifelong project of deepening in God's light.

So, at this moment, no point giving any last-minute instructions; they end up confusing even more. So, just relax. Just take it one day at a time, and soon you'll be back here and everything will be fine. Don't worry. Everything that you need to hear, all the training so to speak, is already there with you in your heart. So, it will help you moment to moment. But there will be times because you're going back to some old conditioning, so it'll just get released. So, don't worry. Don't try to control it too much also.

Thank you, Father.

Thank you. Welcome. Love you all. Thank you, thank you.