How to Be with God - 22nd January 2025

Yes. So when you say, 'Who witnesses this thought?' after that, what happens? Not that you have to do something after that, but what do you notice?

Sometimes I see like a thought comes, like, 'I see, I can see, I see.' Yeah, 'I'm the king.' Yeah.

But that can also be seen as well. That can also be seen. So we use the same approach, which is to say: who witnesses this thought which says 'I see'? Then just persist with this. Sometimes it feels maybe expecting something to happen or waiting for something. So just, yeah, keep with this. Keep focused and not fall asleep. Sometimes happens, falling asleep.

Yes. Do you find that there are large moments of just silence?

Yes, silence. And then also, is this almost like, 'Oh, this is it?' Like as in, 'Oh, okay,' almost dismissing, like a dismissive sort of thought?

Yeah, as well. Like dismissive.

So you are able to spot that thought as a thought? Yes. So when that dismissing thought comes, whichever it may use, whichever language it may use, if you're able to stay with that and say, 'What witnesses this?' or 'Who witnesses this?' So, does that silence take you somewhere? And we don't have to imagine or visualize; it doesn't have to take us in the realm of imagery. Okay, let me simplify for you. Are there times where you don't want to leave that silence? Are there times where you don't feel like leaving that silent space?

Yes. Yes.

Yes. So what is there in that silence that you are enjoying and you don't want to be disturbed?

Just feels right. There's no feeling, but you just know that you're in the right place. Very, very just there. There is a tendency to expect something, and if there isn't something happening, then that 'I failed,' maybe 'I didn't get on with this.' Yeah, yeah. 'I can't do it properly.' These kind of thoughts. 'It's not working.' Yeah.

What is the answer? Yeah, trying and nothing works. Almost getting a bit angry, frustrated. If I was to ask you—and the idea is not to add to the frustration at all—but if I was to ask you, so what is the answer?

Stay persistent. Like, notice that this is also a thought. This is also something that can be seen. Yes. Yeah.

But if someone was to ask you that in the process of inquiry, self-inquiry, have you recognized yourself?

Yes. It doesn't feel like for long periods of time, like shorter. Yeah, yeah.

Shorter is fine, but just knowing that it's... right. So, and that gives confidence as well. Very good, very good. So who have you recognized yourself to be? This answer is optional; it's not at all required because all that we can really do is this. Are you seeing the simplicity of self-inquiry? All we can really do in self-inquiry is sincerely ask this question: 'Who am I?' And if the mind produces some answers, we notice that those thoughts are also perceived and we ask, 'Who witnesses this thought?' Do you find that... okay, firstly, how many minutes approximately a day would you practice? You suggested two to four hours, isn't it?

Yeah, I feel it's tends to be a bit less, but it depends on... maybe it's still with this failing thing. It's okay.

Yeah, it's all right. It's all right. As long as... how to count those two to four hours? Suppose your intention is to do the self-inquiry or to do the prayer and the mind distracts you, but never in your intention did you want to go with the distraction. That was not the intended use of your time. Then that time can be counted because there is nobody who can say—I can definitely not say—that in the four hours I'm not distracted at all. You see, some days are distracted, some days are focused, but I can say that during the time that I put towards God, he is the only intention. So as long as that is the case, but the mind makes you fidget or distracted and you don't realize and you go with it, but when you realize you come back, that is all we can do.

There have been some times as well where I felt a bit unmotivated by him. Don't want to sit or it, and or like kind of get it over with sort of thoughts like this, which doesn't feel nice.

Of course, all this will come because—and that's why I keep saying to everyone—that the spiritual path is difficult. It is difficult because there is Maya, you see. There is a great, humongous distracting force called Maya. So it will play its game and it's a master player. So we cannot say really it has no power, for none of us can say that. And if you start to say that, mostly we are headed for trouble. So it does, it does. Sometimes it even succeeds in telling the story that, 'Okay, let's stop today, we'll do it later. I don't feel like it.' Distract us with something happening in the world. That's all right. We just have to keep keep at it day after day.

Suppose some days it worked, it stopped us at fifteen minutes, you see, and then we didn't pick it up for the rest of the day at all. But we have to make sure that next day then we make sure we do at least our two hours or whatever we want to do. So then in this, consistency is more important than necessarily the quality on a particular day. Suppose you have... suppose one child came to me and said, 'In the last month I did the inquiry only once and it was beautiful. I saw that I am this pure awareness through my inner insight. In the light of the Atma within, I saw that I am the Self. Beautiful. I just sat in the inquiry for fifteen minutes and this happened to me. And since then I have not taken out any time for God.' And another child came and said that, 'I've had a terrible month. I've tried to do the inquiry every day for two hours. I sit, but I just can't find myself. I'm just failing at it. Nothing is being shown. What is this light of Atma that you talk about? What is this pure awareness? I'm lost. It's a complete waste.'

So who do you feel like I will say 'well done' to? The second one. To the second one. Because the first one is accepting a gift from God and then really not dedicating their life to God. The second one is really with faith, although it does become shaky sometimes and frustrating sometimes, saying that, 'I will remain with God because that is what my teacher has told me.' And there will be days, there will be time periods of time which will be frustrating, but that's all right. I'm with it. You see what I'm doing? So the consistency is more important than even a momentary experience of awakening because I've seen also over the years that the children who report momentary moments of awakening then for some time may not remain that consistent with the practice because they feel like, 'Oh, but that was it, I've got it,' you see.

But remember that this finding is not an objective finding in the sense that the Self is not like the iPad. So, 'Oh, the iPad was missing, now I got it.' So now once I got it, then I can just forget about it and you know, that's not it. We have to, till our dying breaths, we have to make the commitment to be with the truths and not get caught up in the falses. Because we have to do what seems like we have to do our part of it, which is also Grace, but for a large part of our life it does seem like our will, our action, our choice. So we have to do that end of the bargain consistently and trust that he knows. He knows very well. When you come to this silent space, there is no other move you have left, isn't it? Exactly. So we have to come to that place where we have no other manners left, no other tools left to use, you see. We are just completely empty and naked, then offered up to God, waiting for him to guide us, him to love us, and him to reveal himself in whichever way that he wants.

But it's good. Maybe that my experience right now is that I'm talking about it and and that it is a way to be with God and it's a way to be with... right now maybe I would say, but I feel fine like that's good. I'm not really... I'm not sure if I'm getting full.

No, I'm not sure either. Okay, that's fine. As long as both are together, it's fine. Something wrong with this other side of door, but what's that? Maybe last that say you mentioned whatever tool that you used, then I like used the self-inquiry before, 'Who am I?' But it just suddenly felt very, like very, very simple and so I was quite inspired and so have just been using that. And previously, not that long ago really, I was using a mantra and then sometimes just knowing that I am, I am already here. There was a mixed...

Yeah, so right now you're finding the... you feel your heart is being guided to this path of inquiry. That's good. The tools can change over time and that's fine. It's good to check with me or whoever has a little more experience before you change the tool, but right now you seem good with this. Good. Do you find that during the rest of your day the inquiry sort of starts to seep in?

Definitely. If I have sat like... yeah, very well, then it does feel that there is some impact on the rest of the day. Yeah, very.

So can you start with the simple thing saying that when you're reminded of this—so I'm seeding this in you—that whenever you're reminded of what I've told you just now, just come back in the inquiry no matter what is happening in the world? And even if you're just reminded of this but you're in the middle of something, you're watching some television or you're talking to someone, you can even do the inquiry with eyes open, isn't it? You just ask yourself, 'Who am I?' And you may inwardly be brought into that emptiness again, which I call the heart temple. So you may be brought into the heart temple in this way and then naturally, organically, you may find that more and more of your day is spent like this, that you're really anchored over there and you're engaging with outer tentacles with the world, but you don't seem to be that caught up in the things of the world. So for now this much is good. Keep me posted every couple of weeks at least in terms of how it is going. Thank you. Thank you.

Same question.

It's becoming a lot more natural, effortless. I know that the body can only appear in the Self. Without the Self, there's no sensation of the body. Yeah, so whenever I'm aware of the body, automatically I'm aware of the Self because it's a sensation and it's in the living I Am.

Very good. So what you're saying, if I'm understanding correctly, is that every sensation which is appearing in your perception, because you have contemplated for quite some time, it now naturally seems to bring you to the witnessing of that sensation and you notice that that witnessing, that pure awareness, is your reality and these sensations just come. And so every moment in that way—and we are all getting there—but in that way every moment becomes a sadhana, a natural sadhana without too much effort on the outside. Yeah, yeah. And so I try to rest in the I Am and then this intuitively...

In your perception, because you have contemplated for quite some time, it now naturally seems to bring you to the witnessing of that sensation, and you notice that that witnessing, that pure awareness, is your reality and these sensations just come. And so every moment in that way—and we are all getting there—but in that way every moment becomes a sadhana, a natural sadhana without too much effort on the outside. Yeah, yeah. And so I try to rest in the I am, and then intuitively the realization is that the I am is being witnessed, you know, by—I may say—by itself. Yes, right? It's aware of itself and it's shining by its own light. So the beautiful thing is that I think for me the Holy Grail, if I may, is: what is it in my experiencing that's shining by its own light? I always go to that now. And, you know, I think there's a lot of joy that sort of—just as you said—the bliss, and you don't want to leave that space. And then, you know, again, I think as you sit in it, then it sort of feels like what was in the background you've now consciously brought into the foreground as yourself. And then what seemed to be the foreground according to the mind, which is the body and the thoughts, start to feel like, okay, these are superimposed on the reality. Like these sensations are superimposed on the reality.

So, let's dive into this a little bit. In what way do you find yourself—which is diving into the question of superimposition—in what way do you find myself? In the sense of the tools, like what is the instrument of that knowledge? If I was to say, 'How do you know there is a hand?' you would say it is sight. 'How would you know that there is sound in this room?' you would say it is hearing. Now, what is the instrument of Atma Gyan, of self-knowledge?

Yeah, so it's, you know, I mean, it's the glorious word 'intuitive.' The glorious word 'intuitive.' I know it's only a word, but I guess the thing is it's none of these, none of, you know, none of the—as you said—not the senses. It's totally not the senses. It's totally not the thought. It's, you know, so we know the light and we just know the light. I mean, we just—since we know the light and we know we are there knowing the light, it's like, what else? You know? I mean, whatever anything thought I can introduce is not relevant. I know that I'm seeing the light because I'm feeling the light. That's just, you know, QED.

So you know you're seeing the light. That's so you're there. And if you weren't there, the light couldn't be seen. If the light couldn't be seen, the body couldn't be seen. So let me stop you there. So even without the inferential method now, you intuitively know that. And that intuitively is what I mean: in the light of the Atma and the light of the Holy Spirit, we recognize that we are that. Now, when it comes to things that we've heard in satsang and from the sages—that the world appearance is a superimposition on the Self—how is that recognized?

So, you know, I feel the light and then the body itself is recognized as being made out of the same stuff as the light.

Recognized with what instrument?

The same instrument. We have a sense that this body is made up of the light of Consciousness itself. Intuitively we have the sense.

So I'm just making sure that no visualization at all is happening. Because many times what can happen is that when we read the words of the superimposition on the screen of Consciousness, something the mind also starts to offer us—some paintings, some visuals of this kind of superimposition—that there are the sensations which are appearing onto like a screen called Consciousness. But you are saying that it is not using any imagery of any sort. This is just giving words to that which is inexplicable, unspeakable, because that is the only way we can really communicate about these things, isn't it?

Yeah. So the body is a sensation in me. You know, I mean, I can feel all of the light and then in that light I can feel the body as a sensation. And so I'm feeling all of it, and this is one in the form in the, you know, in the light which is everywhere. The body is like a little—I wouldn't say little, but it's sort of a—in that vastness, it's, yeah, it's little.

Right now, there is no visualization happening, right?

No, I'm just trying to narrate how it feels.

Good. Because sometimes we have to be really careful of that—that there is no visualization or imagining of any of this happening. Just rely on that pure intuitive insight. And you're absolutely right in the things that you're saying. In fact, we come to like a realm of recognition where we cannot really say about any of the words being right or wrong. It's beyond any need for confirmation and things like that. So just make sure that we continue to remain in that holy place of being shown by this I amness in the form of the Atma itself, without using any imagery, without using any concepts. And from there, if words are appearing to express it, then just express from there direct, without taking it through a filter of any intellect or any imagination. Remember that that filter will not be a filter; it will be a contaminator. So allow it to flow directly from the heart, from the Atma, you see.

And many times people ask you, 'But how do you know? What you're saying sounds completely wrong to me. How do you know?' And then you can very easily tell them that, 'I don't know how I know. I just don't know. I just know in my heart somewhere.' But what is the mechanics of that knowing? I don't know, because it's non-mechanical, not empirical. It's aparoksha. It needs no time, it needs no steps. It takes steps for us to go there, but once you get there, there are no steps. Atma shows us everything, and yet it leads us step by step. So like that. And even for yourself, don't create any framework out of it. That's how you will keep deepening in this. Because once you know, you've stopped. Once you know, you stop growing. So just keep that innocence of a child, which is what allows you to be there anyway. So obviously you have the innocence that you can return to that quiet place, but remain in that innocence even when you have to explain your insight.

Very so. Just a few things which have been helpful as just as tips. One is, I find when you wake up in the morning, that period is most golden, most precious somehow, because maybe the Maya hasn't fully kicked in. So that seems to be like that, you know, even before you get out of bed, it seems to be the most sort of precious time. And then I would say, sometimes, you know, there are these four lines when I'm doing the sadhana I say to myself, which I'll just mention in case they help. So there's the Mahavakyas, right? So there's the 'Aham Brahmasmi.' So if you just while you're in the isness, you know, sometimes I say 'Aham Brahmasmi.' I may say 'Ayam Atma Brahma.' Everything I take myself to be, everything, all aspects of it is Brahman. And the knower—the knower is the Brahman. It's all being seen from there. So everything—I mean, the whole, you know, all the sensations, everything is being seen by itself, like the light itself. Like everywhere where the light is, I am. You know, like I'm just—because that's just reaffirming that the seer, the seeing, is everywhere. Everywhere I can sense presence, yes, you are. So we know, totally formless, totally infinite. Yeah. And then everything is only Brahman, Brahman. So everything, including everything in there, all the sensations, it's all just—it's just one. Everything is just one. So this sort of sometimes helps me deepen a little bit in the sadhana.

So just that is why these have been given to us by the sages. If you contemplate 'Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma,' that everything is Brahman, it is not meant for a conceptual understanding, but it is meant to take us to this quiet place. Because by our own means, we can never recognize the truth of this. No matter what you do, you cannot understand that everything is Brahman. You can only, like, store it in your intellect, but you cannot have an insight about it no matter what you do with your mind. You may calculate all that you want with your intellect, you may judge or not judge, you may try to perceive everything as Brahman, but you can't do it. So these passages, these words, these phrases are transcendental passages. And for each of us, what is transcendental may be different. One of you may hear 'Aham Brahmasmi' and even if you know Sanskrit, you may say, 'That doesn't do anything for me.' So God in His grace and the sages in their mercy have given us enough transcendental passages, transcendental work for us to dwell on.

So we hear the transcendental passage, we dwell on it, you see. Now, 'dwell on it' could be like—let's take this. Suppose Sadasia is here and she doesn't know what is her. So of course, many of these have like—you can sense an energetic vibration about them. So even without knowing the meaning, you may feel that, 'Ah, it does something. It does something.' Like the simplest example of that could be just the name of God, God called Ram. You may not know who Ram is. You may be coming to India for the first time, and even if you may be opposed to the concept of Ram, if you meet the word, it does something. We can't explain exactly what. We can't say what it does, what happens.

Okay, but coming back to if you were using 'Sarvam Khalvidam Brahma,' so what would be helpful to us is to know the meaning of it in the world. Think: everything is Brahman, everything is Brahman. Then you may say, 'What do I mean by everything? Am I talking about only those things which are objectively seen, or am I saying even the space?' So we can spend a few minutes just looking at everything. What is 'is'? To exist, to remain, to be, to just 'is.' What is this isness? And what is Brahman? Is it that which witnesses everything? Is it that which brings itself into existence? So what happens is that as we grind these holy words, you see, we make a paste in a very reverential way. We squeeze them. We squeeze them. And as we are in the process of that squeezing, you see, we may realize that an aspect of it really got to us in a good way, really grabbed us. You see, it grabs us and pulls us in.

So it could be simplified into like, if in our process of grinding, if a phrase came: 'Everything is God. Everything is God alone.' And just in hearing that for ourselves, we may go from this place where we are using our mind and intellect to deconstruct these words, but then we may go to a very still, quiet place. And the same in the inquiry also, that if you're asking 'Who am I?' the mind will give you all kinds of things. 'You are this, you are Consciousness.' As you learn more spirituality, it'll give you more answers sometimes. But as you persist—'What witnesses this?'—then you come to a place where your mind runs out of moves. The mind loves to operate like a know-it-all, you see. So if you say to yourself 'banana,' it wants to produce images of banana for you right now. If you say 'orange,' it wants to produce. But when it's given a question like 'Who am I?' it wants to produce an answer for you, but you keep rejecting that answer. You see what the play between Consciousness and mind is happening? Maybe just like the mind says, 'You are that.' 'Not buying it. Try again.' Then it comes to a process of just running out of answers. It gives up. 'This customer will not be satisfied, so let me try to stop selling to him.' So in that, you come to that quietude where the dust of conceptual knowledge, which was blocking true Jnana, true knowledge, is no longer interfering with your vision, you see. And you're just sitting quietly in that holy place where all true revelation can happen, a true insight can happen.

Another thing that helped me was thinking of Arunachala. You know, in a way that the light of the being and the light is totally continuous and unbroken. So if it's as if—

Stop selling to him. So in that, you come to that quietude where the dust of conceptual knowledge, which was blocking true Jnana—true knowledge—is no longer interfering with your vision, you see? And you're just sitting quietly in that holy place where all true revelation can happen, a true insight can happen. Another thing that helped me was thinking of Arunachala. You know, in a way that the light of the being and the light is totally continuous and unbroken. So, it's as if it's like a mountain; it has like no breaks. It's like a mass everywhere, still and shining. And then when we actually think about Arunachala—Aruna and Achala—the Aruna is the hill of the light. Aruna and Achala: still, so shining, stillness, unbroken mass. Like the whole, you know, the one that shines by its own light, totally unbroken, like infinite, just shining, shining. So that somehow, it struck me that it's such a—you know, just one thought, you think Arunachala, then you again you're reminded that, you know, the mind is always attracted to the forms. But if it's just an infinity of pure Consciousness shining by itself, knowing everything within itself, it seems very apt. Hello, okay, let's...

Good. Very hidden, be hidden. So, I'm a lazy personality, Father. So, same, this is so... pretty much remembering God and then remembering God's name, yes, God's name and form, and followed by a state where it could be an indifferent state or a limbo state for the mind, Father. And I try to stay there, and anything becomes an effort after that. Even when you say do Manana or contemplation, that feels like an effort, and then I leave it, Father. Just, I try to stay there, and that's why the disclaimer of being lazy, yes, Father, that's coming from there. So, I try to be there. And so, how long does it last? Then it lasts, Father, I would say, for a couple of minutes, and then a small break, then again come back again. In sleep also, I could see I'm praying—I'm not praying, at least those Rama or some line from Hanuman Chalisa is going on, but it's not very actively done. But all the vikaras are still as—not that powerful and doesn't last for long, but I could have all the vikaras. Like, I would check if my IPO has been listed or I'm eager to see that, or everything. So those are also there: kaam, krodh, lobh, moh, everything is there, fighting on the streets, but it is less impactful. And again, going back, going back, then just stay. And I don't know what to do after that, but it's there, just...

Okay, so let's see if I understood. So you use the name of God, and it could be a line from the Hanuman Chalisa, could be the Adas prayer, I suppose. Some of you, if you're using the Ram prayer, or some of you using the Jesus prayer—we've spoken about the potency of Ram—but suppose you're using the Jesus prayer where you say, 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.' So what is the way to do the Manana on it? We heard these words, we've been taught these words. The way to do the Manana on it, in the way it works in the Adas, is through repetition. Just immerse ourselves more and more through the repetition, and then we find that at a particular point, He pulls us in. The whole point is to come to the point where He pulls us in, where then the words are not needed.

So did you notice that there are two types of what in Advaita we may call Manana or in Christian contemplation we may call meditation? There are two types which we discussed just now. One is to grind for ourselves. So how would I do it? I would say, 'Lord, you are the Lord of everything.' So, starting with the first word of the prayer. So instead of using repetition, you're really diving into the prayer, what it is showing you, what it is telling you. 'Lord, you are the Son of God, you are an incarnation of God, you are that holy word, the Shabad that was with Him before the creation of the universe.' So we stay with Him in this way. We can continue in that Manana, in the meditation in this way, till it—we'll talk about the chill part.

The second is that if you have a very distracted sort of mind, and if you started contemplating the prayer but it actually took us to what is the football score or something like that, then sometimes the repetition is better because it gives you the guardrails. You just contemplate God just by repeating the word, repeating the word. And in a way, that is how 'Who am I?', the inquiry, also works. You're not given any—you're not supposed to think about who you are, you're not supposed to contemplate any of the Mahavakyas, you're not supposed to dwell on any of that. Just ask yourself, 'Who am I?' and then that gives your mind no chance. So you have to see what takes you home, what works for you in your heart.

Now, what happens if you use something devotional—and it can also happen in inquiry, but often happens in devotion—is that a strong love comes. A love for God comes, and in that love for God, it feels like an anchor which is pulling us into the quietude. That love can come in any sort of sadhana. So when we said that we will find some of the beautiful passages from the Ramacharitmanas, that was the idea: that we can use them to contemplate them, to go deeper using the words of the saints. In fact, these great sages have spoken in this way, that any of their words can be used for contemplation, you see? Any of the Atma's direction which comes through their mouth can be used for contemplation, and therefore then we have no shortage of transcendental passages. We just have to see what works for us. So like that, let me recap what you're saying. You're saying that first thing in the morning—yes, first thing in the morning—you contemplate some words of the Ramacharitmanas or Hanuman Chalisa or any name of God, and then you sit in the quietude, immersed in God's light and love for a couple of minutes, three or four minutes, and then you go back into the contemplation and then like that?

Yeah, go back into—go attached with thoughts and leave the place, leave the space. Then to come back again, prayer or contemplation a little bit was... and if it's too much, then always video or songs or external audible things definitely help, or reading. But all that takes effort, and as soon as I know that I don't have to do anything, it feels good because I'm again in like the feeling of 'leave it to God.' It's really helping, just...

So let's see if we can break through this construct of laziness and effortlessness for a couple of minutes. If He recognized—I'm not saying rewarded, okay, so I'm just saying—if you recognized every time you make an effort for Him, if He recognizes it, would you still say, 'No, no, now I'm too lazy, I don't want to put effort'? If every time you make an effort, He just goes, 'Father, making an effort, making an effort for me'...

Requires to leave the space, no?

You... okay, so only make the effort if you are not in the space. Why would you make any effort if you are in the space?

Again, the contemplation part, when... right, let's say prayer is simple, one line. So it's there, and then if I want to go through those words, that...

No, no, wait, wait, okay, I'm getting your point. Are you saying that you hear 'Sri Ramachandra kripalu' and just in the hearing of that...

Yes, Father, I don't want to do anything.

Very good. So then after five minutes, again, 'Sri Ramachandra'?

Yes.

This is very good. This is fine. But many times we find that after one hour is gone, then it seems like—for many it may not happen like that anyway to begin with. So either we repeat, so that which may seem like a very mechanical, useless thing, in the process of repetition we've squeezed it out, we've squeezed the spiritual juice out of it, which gives us the capacity to dive in. Or something seems so potent to us that in just one hearing of it or one repetition of it... then what happens after ten minutes? It may still work or it may not. So if we are coming to the holy place just upon the hearing of it, you see, the ancient Vedantins would say that we have—okay, I don't want to give anybody a big head hearing it—but that means that we have some adhikara. You've heard this term in Vedanta? That we have some authority, we have now reached a certain spiritual maturity that just in the hearing, we come into the nididhyasana or the contemplation. But I don't want us to just rest on that, in the sense that are we doing this really for two to four hours in that thing, or do we need the process of repetition? Do we need the process of what would be called Manana or meditation? And secondly, there's enough for us to dwell on which gives us more and more joy. So when it gives joy, it will not seem effortful.

So if you're saying 'Sri Ramachandra kripalu bhaju man,' let's just stay at 'kripalu.' Kripalu: how much mercy You have. How is it that You have so much mercy on this foolish one, undeserving of Your love, constantly running away from You, and still You have so much mercy that You keep pulling me back? I love You so much, God. Thank You. I don't know what I can say to thank You for Your love, for Your kindness. If You were just just with me, then You would have shunned me a long time ago. But because You are merciful, You keep me close. So it's like writing a love letter to God. It's not effortful. Just in that one word: so merciful You are. And as we deepen in our devotion in this way, in this Manana, so also the bhaktas will say 'smaran.' They will just do the repetition of His name or His virtues, to sing the glories of God. What is that for? It's for us, not for Him. So we remember His grace, His mercy, and that brings us to the quiet place.

So if you are in the heart altar, in the heart temple, then you don't need to apply yourself. You've done the cooking, now you're eating. But sometimes the small morsel that is being eaten, it seems like it gets over in a few minutes. So you return back and cook some more. You made a sandwich, you ate it up quickly, then you're still hungry, so you want to make another sandwich and you come back. I want to just simplify this for everyone, and I'm also trying to show you that the aim of Jnana and Bhakti are the same. The path of Jnana and Bhakti lead to the same temple of the Atma within. So now you're getting a sense how it's not effortless, just if you just remain with innocence. So first, forget about being correct, see? Because making us seem like, 'What can I... how am I supposed to contemplate? Some great words have to come.' No. If you speak gibberish to God, it's okay. He's not judging that. He's sensing your love. So with as much innocence, it is fine. And God will meet you whichever way you want to meet.

This is a beautiful story, you know, that was it about Janabai? Probably about Janabai, who treated Krishna like He was a son, a little child, three or four years old. So she would feel like He lives with her, He's right there. She would feed Him like a child, she would just take care of Him. So one day Janabai was talking to a neighbor, and Krishna, this baby Krishna, little Krishna, kept calling her, 'Come!' Like what children do: 'Give me attention, give me attention.' One way or the other. So He then found a way to distract her away from the neighbor and try to call her in. He said, 'Ma, there's a snake on the floor, please come and save me.' And Janabai was getting irritated because she wanted to talk to her friend. So she says, 'You are the Lord of the universe! You have the Sudarshana Chakra, just take it out and kill the snake! Why are you calling me?' Because she knew very well who He was. Then He said, 'You took me to be a son, that is why I came as a son to you. Now you say that I am the Lord of the universe. So then now you have to pray to me to come close to me, because then I'm not your son, I'm the Lord of the universe,' see? So in whichever way we decide to love Him, He makes Himself available to us. So don't look at it as effort. It is just deepening in our love, deepening in our insight. There are some days where you want to take just very simply transcendental passages...

Tell who he was. Then he said, 'You took me to be a son; that is why I came as a son to you. Now you say that I am the Lord of the universe, so then now you have to pray to me to come close to me because then I'm not your son, I'm the Lord of the universe.' See? So in whichever way we decide to love Him, He makes Himself available to us. So don't look at it as effort; it is just deepening in our love, deepening in our insight. There are some days where you want to take just very simply transcendental passages. Somewhere your heart also guides you to deepen in your insights, so it may pick a passage which you're not able to make sense out of, you see? But then looking at it, you get excited saying, 'This is going to reveal, because it has come from the mouth of a sage, this is going to reveal some new light to me.' So I want to go deep with this for the next couple of hours, see? And as you apply yourself in these ways, you will find more and more the beats of the discipleship of the Atma within, and you learn how to be a good student through that one who decides the course.

But if you place too many restrictions on Him, then it will seem like you're not fully surrendered yourself to Him. So have the attitude which says, 'Okay, today you want me to put all the effort that I can? Okay, I will. Today you made it easy for me, you just take me home? Thank you, so grateful. But today it seems like you're disconnected from me; you want me to pray deeply, you want me to repeat your name often, you want me to dive into the holy words of the sages with everything that I have in my power? I will do.' No child has ever gone to the gurukul and said every day the gurukul was easy; in fact, we hear the opposite. So we are going to the gurukul of the Satguru, the holy teacher in our heart. So we must be careful of these self-limiting sort of constructs. Okay, 'I am lazy, I am lazy'—so offer that also to God. 'I'm lazy, please do with this, please change me, make me exactly what you need, not how I am.' Everything can be turned into a prayer. Everything can become a prayer.

But if you say, 'I will be only this way,' then also He listens, like this beautiful story of Janabai treating Him like a child. But then one day when she wanted Him to be the one with the Sudarshan Chakra, He said, 'Okay, then you have to now pray to me as that one. I made it easy for you by coming as a child; now you try and find me in the Paramatma.' These are all holy ways of teaching, His way of teaching. You know who did all that Leela was Him only, obviously. You're getting a sense of it? So we have to become really innocent in front of Him.

To those in the Gana path, many times they study beautiful scriptures, and we used to do that in the past where you can read Adi Shankara's commentary on the Bhagavad Gita, for example. And it doesn't matter how much headway you're making into the scripture because some of those are really big, but if you would use those personally, isn't it amazing that we can read the words of Shankara? Even that is just such a gift that they were captured, they were written, and there are thousands and thousands of words that we can read by him, and they're coming from Shankara himself. So we can contemplate those. So the path of Gyan Yoga is also in the same way; we contemplate those words.

Now I feel it's a beautiful insertion to add that point of prayer. It is not needed if He brings you into His chamber naturally anyway. But if you find that just going 'Who am I? Who am I?' and the frustration also building up, and you feel like, 'But I'm just asking this and I've been asking for 15 years, just asking who am I, who am I for 15 years, I just can't do it,' so take that frustration to God. Bring that into sharanam from the mind and just say, 'Please help me, God.' If nothing else, it is very good for our ego, for our pride. 'Please help me, I can't do this.' Or we've been doing the ideas with our breath, we've been doing it trying to do it with love, but really you don't feel like you're getting the sense of entering the heart temple at all, then just imagine yourself lying down flat in front of Him. 'Help, help.' Just sometimes a childlike innocent cry for help is better than the greatest Mahavakyas. And we know by now that not a single insight of spirituality can come to us unless it is the gift of the Spirit itself. Unless Atma has darshan, we don't grow at all. Okay, let's go to the next.

Just one, so thank you, Father. So even a seemingly harmless framework of being lazy can also be a barrier at some point, so thank you for that. I know, I know your love for Ram Ji, I know your love for God, but the mind can play these tricks. So in your love, would you not, if He said, 'Just you have to make this effort of walking all the time for the rest of your life, but you will meet me at the end of it,' I know your love for Him is so much that you would. But sometimes, can I start with whatever the chant I'm doing at that point is? It's probably Adas or just Baba's name. It's a good day, I wake up with the chant running in the mind, and then I finish the chant and then I take Baba's thought for the day, a quote maybe, and I see that as a message to me for the day. And then I chant. Wake-up call, if I forget I may do it at 10:30 a.m., but I do it. I can't have a day without it. So that's my way of connecting to God, and the God who I see, that is my Guru, that is... yeah.

So that's... I'm seeing the cooking part. What about the eating part? You get the difference? You've not been here for some time, so maybe I can explain a bit. So there's an active part, you see, that we walk to the temple, we climb the steps, we ring the bell, we do all of that. But then if you just did all that in return but you didn't actually sit in front of Him and get His Darshan, then it's not really the full point. The point of prayer is not like the fruit of the prayer has been discarded somewhere, yeah, you see? So the active part—the walking to the temple, the climbing the steps, the ringing the bell, the knocking at the door—is the active part. What about the emotion part?

Okay, so all this is to calm the mind first?

Exactly. To come to that, exactly, you know.

So then I practice my Kriya. At the end of the Kriya is when I sit. It's the monkey mind, it runs all over, so it takes time to get to it. And that's all in the morning, and this is all like 6:00 a.m.

So that sitting, yes, how long is that compared to the cooking? 80/20?

At least... try and shift it to 50/50.

50/50, yeah.

So then, so then it is the Kriya. After that, if I'm not too late, then I go for Bhajan, that is at 9:00 in the morning. So then I sing, that's also the next level. Yes, that goes in. And then I go to the Hanuman temple and I chant Hanuman Chalisa there, and I light the diya to the tree there, and I connect there. And in between all of this, I walk in the morning, and while I'm walking I do all my other chants for Ganesha and Krishna and Adas and everything. I have a list. And that's my way of connecting and having that with me through the day. And then I come back home and I light my diya to the Lord, and I put all the flowers and every... all gods, all the photos that I have. I have a deep connect with Lord Vishnu. Oh, I have the same Krishna statue, so he drops a flower for me every day. So for him and his wife, I keep separate flowers. It affixes and it falls. So that's my connect with him. And also as you said, writing a letter, I have the habit of writing a letter from my childhood. When you said it, I was shocked. But sometimes I don't do that, Father, like six months and all I don't do it; in between there are breaks. But when I write my letter...

I see that you're doing a lot of the active aspect of spirituality, the active seva, yes. But those times of surrender where true revelation can happen, then I keep sitting in between? 80/20 or...?

Huh? 80/20, yeah. In the 20, yes, I keep sitting.

So slowly keep trying to make it 70/30 first, 60/40 first. And you don't have to make it that ratio by reducing the active part; you can make it that ratio by increasing the sitting.

Yes, yes. I'm able to sit because of the Kriya I do; that helps me to...

How many minutes?

Huh? How many minutes do you sit earlier? Um, sit after the Kriya, yeah, 10 minutes or even more.

To increase that, make it 15, make it 20, 30. Yeah, if you sit like that for at least an hour every day.

Yeah, and I also practice gratitude. All these practices should get you to immerse in Him, yeah, to be with Him, yeah.

You see, so you're doing all the... yes, it's like going to the temple, knocking at the door, saying, 'Okay, I'm here, I've done my bit.' Yeah, you're doing a lot of time, and God may be saying, 'Arey, will you also give me a chance to speak in this relationship?' Isn't it? That you're expressing all your love: 'I love you, I'm doing this, I'm writing a letter to you.' I'm okay, I'm sorry if I'm being dramatic, but just to get the point home that you're doing all of that, you see? But right now your relationship with God is 80/20, means 80% your monologue and 20% you give Him a chance. Yes, so give Him more. Offer yourself silence, offer yourself to Him, yeah.

So I want to say it's very good what you're doing. I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong; I'm just saying add to that this capacity to listen to Him also, not just in His signs. Signs are all right, but if you can meet Him directly, then you don't need to wait for signs, isn't it? Why you want to wait for a flower to drop when He can just speak to you directly in the heart, isn't it? No, but that's still loud. It's beautiful, but let it then translate into... you see? So there must be a time where... so you are doing all this driving, you're not allowing Him to drive enough. So add, add to that, don't reduce your seva.

The Ramacharitmanas helps me a lot, a chapter a day. That connects me to what it was then and how the compassion and the grace... it's always the grace. And somewhere I feel I'm able to take the blessings that you're giving, or eat you or see you or anywhere, I don't see the difference. But I want that with everybody else also. The differentiation is there, you know, Father, like...

Yes, but yeah, like let's look at this for an example. Yeah, has God given you this project? Huh? Has God given you this project? Is that a presumption, or He moved you and He guided you?

I think He has been always moving me and guiding me from my childhood.

Yes, yes, He does all of that, yeah. But what I'm saying is that when you go deeper in your silence, then when you come out of the silence, you will know that all the movement, all the action, yeah, also He is moving. Not just as an idea, not just saying, 'Oh, He's moving, oh, He's moving,' but you will actually be with Him to be able to confirm that. You see, the point of spirituality is what? To be with Him, to know Him, to be always in the presence, leading to a Divine Union. Yes, Divine Union, like having the presence, always being with the presence, always to merge into Him. Merge into where you are no longer able to say that there is a 'me' and there is a 'Him.' With integrity, I mean; all of us can say it, especially the Advaitins would love to just say it, but there's too much duality in 'me and Him.' There is no me, there is no Him. But you can tell when it's just conceptual words and when it is tasty.

But with the presence of a Guru, it becomes more prominent that you're able to be in touch. Like in your presence or similar people who are already there, they are able to take you along. That's what I sense.

Yeah, very... that's the whole idea, you know? That's the whole idea, yeah. Otherwise, God would just give the recognition to some and call them home. Yeah, He leaves them here so that He can infect, or she can infect, more and more with that love, with that life. Even the Bhajan or the key things help a lot, suddenly you connect, you know? And there is a deep... something you're doing, everything that helps, except being helped. You know what I mean? That all of this is to help you be in that, yeah. It takes you there. So yeah, all of these teachers come into your life, all these words come into your life, so that you meet Him, be with Him, live in His will, and come to Divine Union with Him. But the living in His will can be two sides: first is that we have a presumed idea...

The bhajan or the key things help a lot. Suddenly you connect, you know, and there is a deep something. You're doing everything that helps except being helped, you know what I mean? That all of this is to help you be in that. Yeah, it takes you there. So yeah, all of these teachers come into your life, all these words come into your life so that you meet him, be with him, live in his will, and come to Divine Union with him. But the living in his will can be two sides. First is that we have a presumed idea of what his will is, so we try to do that. Second is like to be led like a little baby holding the mother's hand and be walked by him without knowing any moment whether to go left or right. And that living in his will can only happen if you're living in his presence. And living in his presence will only happen if you come into just being with him in gratitude, more listening mode than a speaking mode or a doing mode. Just what you have, you tell him such beautiful things to him every day—prayer, chanting, Soham, the quotes of a guru—all of these things you tell him every day. What does he tell you? So make that also more and more, see? So enjoy silence to begin with because he will test your patience first. Be like that. First, test your patience. Are you willing to be patient to hear him, to be with him? So apply yourself in that way also. You're doing very well. Your sadhana is very beautiful. But every day make it a point to immerse yourself in the fruit of the satsang. If you do all the cooking, then the eating is a little less. Okay.

Hello. Um, so for me, I guess, um, it would be like today I came here and it was quite light. I felt really light and then at some point I started feeling heavy in the body. Yeah, and it's like a bit, um, just like in the face and the in the body, like really heavy, uncomfortable, you know? And I'm, I'm familiar with this. Then at some point, maybe like five minutes ago, again light came. And this is where probably if I do, I'm sitting in silence at home when this feeling, heavy feeling would come, then I would just, I would just start doing something else, you know? So I guess this is why satsang for me, it's important like this to come. And, uh, when I'm back home, uh, I'm missing this, you know?

What brings you to that silence? Are you using inquiry? Are you using...

So in the morning I would do guided meditation around 20 minutes. So again, up to like half an hour I can feel really, I can come to that state, let's say, and, uh, stay there. But if I do a bit longer, then this might come and, uh, then I would just, I would not push myself to, to continue. It just becomes heaven. I'm feeling I'm not enjoying this. So I'm, it's kind of like what, uh, sort of what M was also saying, when it starts to feel a bit effortful, yeah, then I feel like, yeah. And but then if I push through, it's, it's really good, yeah. Then it lasts and it's a bit even, uh, different state. But yeah, um, also for me, maybe listening to satsang when I'm back home, it's not so strong. I have to be in a presence. This I do the best I can, but I, I just, yeah, sometimes I drift to do something in the meantime as well. But, uh, I know the presence of God, I'm familiar. And but yeah, it's been a little bit in between, like a choice of, um, choosing comforts in life or being in the presence of God. It's like this. And then I'm almost like consciously sometimes deciding to go with the comfort, yeah.

But okay, so what I'm noticing now, because I'm a little older than you, is that without being in God's presence, the disconnection that we feel in the heart doesn't make anything feel comfortable.

So yes, I contemplated this and just some, some things feel like maybe it's fine because when you're in, not in a God presence, then you might think, um, I might think that, um, actually this comfort which I'm choosing, it's maybe as good, almost as good. But every time when I'm in, let's say, presence of God, then I'm, I definitely know that it's not, it's not the same. But when I'm not there, I might think from this side, this is, this is...

That is the whole point of Maya, to give you an alternative to God which says, 'But this is as good.' But then every time you return to God, you feel like, 'No, no, no, this is very different from that.' Very good, very good to spot that. Now you write it down somewhere and say it's very common. This is the whole trick, no? So he tries to make this fleshly world, this worldly appearance, and says, 'But if you had the best things here, it could be relationship, comfortable house, financial security, it could be any of these things,' and says, 'This is it. What else do I need? This is, this is very nice.' But then you return to God and feel like, 'Oh wow, that was, that was in hypnosis. That was a hypnosis I didn't realize.' That is why Maya is so compelling. Without Maya, spirituality would be a breath. It gives you an alternative. See, this what you're feeling now, being with this person, with this man or woman, this is Godly. So it gives you all the narratives that you can put in your life which will say, 'Ah, this is, this is good enough.' And soon life is ending.

And another dilemma for me is also when, um, I'm thinking like, uh, maybe I should just make myself a bit more financially free so I can come and be in presence more like this.

But don't think it might never come also. This is the thing of if we were to determine that we will follow only God's will, then everything else that we need in spirituality will be sorted out. Okay? So let him only determine whether you need financial security first, what you need right now for you. See, there is God, his will is the highest. If we are in his presence, we can access his will. All this is available to us. So to pick our will over his will is the very idea of pride. It is the very basis of pride, which we don't realize. We feel pride is only 'I'm so good, I'm so great,' you see? But to have access to his will and to pick our way over that is pride. So if you were to say that 'You move me, God' or 'You guide me, God,' then we have to be in his presence, or all the tools that we need to come to his presence will seem very important to us. It must become apparent to us that without his presence, without his will, we don't have a move. Is it? Otherwise, the narrative of Maya will say, 'Oh, just now money, just sort out your money,' you see? Next it'll say, 'Yeah, now I have the money, maybe what I can also do is the other thing which unsettles me is like physical attraction or relationship or something like that. So now I have money, let me get my relationship thing sorted for a year or two and then, you know, and let me find somebody spiritual so then the rest of my life is for God,' like that. Then you got that, you say, 'Okay, actually, you know, it is so important, we've been put into this world so that we can have children,' and then have children and then say, 'Okay, now I have this responsibility, I've given birth to children, so let me make them...' I'm not saying don't do any of this. I'm only saying that do everything from his will. What that will bring you is that it'll keep you connected and even through this process and outer unfolding life, you have not weakened in your connection with him, in your being with him, you have only strengthened it. So don't determine for yourself what is the best move, you see? Many times we do it in spiritual narratives, that 'If I just do this now, then I can devote the rest of my life to God. If I just do...' But is God telling you that? Does he want you later or does he want you now? Has he told you that? He could tell you later, which I'd be surprised, but could. It's his will. But do we know that really? Are we just presuming his will? So be very careful of spiritual-sounding narratives. Spiritual-sounding narratives for those who are spiritual are the most tricky. What does that mean? That 'I feel God would want me to do this.' It is just a presumption. What is he actually saying to you? Are you being with him to find out what is stopping you from being with him, right? So whether to then have a nest egg so then you can focus on your sadhana, on your spirituality, is also for him to decide. Maybe he just wants you right now to get the highest. But in our postponing, we have an idea of what it should be.

But when you say for him to decide it, so somehow you have to first, first trust.

Yeah, everything that you need to be spiritual—trust, patience, courage, gratitude—if the last determination of your will is from that, from now on you will only follow his will, huh? Then everything else that we need in your spirituality will come to you.

I mean, uh, I understand the need to trust, but because I'm not spending my whole day in the trust, that's why...

Yeah, would just move your whole day, just move in his will. And I'm saying it in an easy way. It is my project also. Am I moving in his will constantly? No. So this is exactly what I'm working on as well. It's never too early to start because in this, everything in our spirituality is contained. How do you know what God's will is? You have to first be in his presence. You have a manager at work, you never meet him and you're just presuming, 'This is what he wants me to do' or 'she wants me to do,' then that is not following the leader. So to meet him, what do you need to do? And you need the tools: the inquiry, whether the sadhana with contemplative prayer, whatever the tools may be. And we need humility. Once you can start seeing that it is pride to go according to my way, then you will learn to be humble. Otherwise, in the world, it is very naturalized, very natural. 'I decide, I have this option, then I pick this or pick that.' And you realize the extent of the presumption we make in picking that because the slightest movement can change our entire life. Whatever butterfly effect or whatever you want to call it, the slightest change can change our whole life. So we cannot say this is too small for God to decide. But the determination to only follow his will from now on is like the magnet which will bring you all the spiritual growth that is needed. Why can't we do it? We feel like, 'But I'm not in his presence all the time.' Exactly. Start with that intention. That intention will deepen our resolve to be with him. How long does it take to build a good heart compass? You know what I mean by heart compass? It guides you to his will. I've been trying 26 years to build a heart compass. I feel like I'm just starting. So at which point will we start? To start now, start. That is why Nanak Ji's words are so important. After everything he said, the key of all of this is to follow his command. Potent words. And if a great saint like Nanak Ji is telling us that, it is not in what we're thinking, it's not in our practices, it's not even in the love that we're tasting, it's none of this. Follow his will, follow his command. Look at it from God's perspective. God is sitting there waiting to command us, but we are like, 'I'll see you later. I love you, but bye.' So like parents, some of us are parents, what do we do usually? 'Okay, go please,' you see? 'You find out, come.' Because if it was forced love or if it was forced following of his will, then God would be just like the mind. The mind oppressively forces us to follow its direction. God is not like the mind. God moves with love, with humility. Imagine how humble he is. If he wanted all of us to just follow his command, we would just become like robots. But he wants us to turn towards him with love. In this play of Lila, he wants us to turn towards him with love. And you notice his mercy, that 100 times at least he nudges us softly, gently in the heart. And still if you're going to be self-destructive and stupid, then sometimes the slap comes. What else will a parent do? So it's very difficult. We don't get scared by the difficulty. It should be inspiring that because it is difficult, I need to start now, because it's not an optional project. It's not an optional project where you can say, 'Oh, you know, I knew that I had to follow his will, but it's okay, I didn't.' So embrace the difficulty. They're very popular, of course they take it in the other way, but very popular content creators now who have these ideas of seeking discomfort. There's something very beautiful about that.

It's very difficult. We don't get scared by the difficulty; it should be inspiring that because it is difficult, I need to start now. Because it's not an optional project. It's not an optional project where you can say, 'Oh, you know, I knew that I had to follow His will, but it's okay, I didn't.' So, embrace the difficulty. There are very popular content creators now who have these ideas of seeking discomfort. There's something very beautiful about that, but of course, they're taking it in just a worldly way. So, that may be difficult, that may not be the best thing, but just know that this path of spirituality is going to be uncomfortable a lot of the time. That is how we will grow.

You want to do this, you want to do like that, you want to rush into these things, and then the alternative sounds so boring. What is Father saying? 'Just sit quietly and wait for God to guide you.' Life is passing me by! I need to seize the moment, carpe diem! That is what the mind tells you. 'I need to make full use of this opportunity. I don't want to sit and wait for God to tell me; He doesn't tell me anyway.' Be very careful of this. Be careful of this because I'm telling you that His will is the only goodness in our life. If you feel like we can make a good decision, we can't make a good decision. 'Good' means if it comes from Him. If that becomes clear to us, then this seems easier.

Like some Greeks, they had so many different schools of thought. Some Greeks thought that we can never determine the goodness or badness of a decision till the outcome is tasted. But that means that while you're making the decision, we don't actually know because you don't know how it's going to turn out. But higher than that is that goodness means it will come from Him. Auspiciousness means it will come from Him. And then suppose that Maya got you. If Maya got you, then don't make the mistake of falling into the second trap: post-facto rationalization, saying, 'Yes, yes, I feel God only told me.' Then we are moving away from just saying, 'I repent, Father. I repent. Please forgive me and make this into Grace. I know Your Grace can do it.' But when we have already rationalized it to ourselves, 'Yeah, only God told me, I got the nudge from my heart only to do this,' then for yourself, you know that you're lying.

And what is that going to help? You may convince the whole world about it. You may convince your whole world about it. Then what's going to happen? Nothing. You feel you convince God? 'Yeah, You only told me. You must have forgotten You told me.' You can play this game with humans; you can't play this game with God, no. This rant is not for generally talking about God's will, so it is a very, very important aspect of our spirituality. That 'I know better what to do' is the very original sin. That is the true tree of knowledge—false knowledge. So remember, it doesn't matter what has happened so far. Start now. Start now, start fresh. You see the way your life will transform just by your intention to follow His will and your bowing down and asking for His love, Grace, and mercy.

When we make the mistake of following our own will instead of getting into rationality... that's a very good question. So in a way, the question is: is being in His presence enough to follow God's will? Is it? So if you're in His presence and you're just allowing Him to move you, then that is to follow God's will. The words of satsang, for example, are only satsang when Ananta does not get in the way. They are only satsang when this one's pride doesn't get in the way, because then it becomes an identification, and nobody should ever hear Ananta. They should only hear the Atma. So that is my sadhana: to keep Ananta away from the identification, away from my life, but especially satsang. Because all of you come to hear—who do you come here to hear? You come here to hear the words of the Atma. That is the Guru's job. Because when it seems difficult for us to hear for ourselves, we need to find some way of hearing Him which can lead us to Him within ourselves. But what a disservice it would be if you came into satsang and you only heard the stupid man's ideas.

So to just remain in His presence, to allow Him to move your mouth, to allow Him to move your hands—it's quite naturally effortless, actually. But because our habit is to decide, to think we know all of these things, to change the habit seems like effort. Suppose somebody came with a service, some new AI offering: 'Now even to move your body is effortless. Everything that you have to do or not do, all decisions are not your problem. This godly AI will do it and it'll make the best choices.' Great deal! But God Himself is there to do that. But to find His will may sometimes squeeze all the egotism out of us. To live in His will asks for us to return to great innocence, great innocence. And some of you want to be teachers of God; know that you have to share from this great innocence. So when you allow yourself to be innocent like that, open, vulnerable, then God can speak through you. So start applying that in your life authentically, and then the sharing of God will happen organically. Okay, thank you.

Okay, let's go to Shanti. This may take obviously a few such... now you put so much pressure for God's will. Forget, forget the last one. See, I speak normally; these were nudges. But I love this. I love this in the sense that this is much better than saying, 'Now that part is over, let me go back to normal mode of operation,' you see? So just to say, 'Now am I supposed to make this report to you in God's will?'—that means you've been hearing. But then the fear comes: 'But then I may not say anything.' But maybe that not saying anything is good. But if the mind uses that and now I'm just pressurized, then say, 'Okay, but now keep it aside. Practice what I've said after your turn is over.' But I like it; that means at least you're trying to live that.

I mean, I can only talk about recent times, I don't remember far back, but I feel some help is coming somehow. The things that many things that you say, like 'just drop your will' or many things like that, I feel something... it's somewhere I'm nibbling at it and something is helping. And I just want to follow it more and see what happens. And that...

But what is your main toolkit to be with God?

It keeps changing.

That's all right.

Currently, like inquiry helps a lot. It helps me drop, I mean, make a distance between the mind and me. And sometimes chanting also, it helps. And sometimes I feel like... sometimes it feels like I'm not relying on my will and some of the things are happening. I feel like the Divine Mother is carrying me in her pocket and it's all, everything is hers to deal with. And sometimes I feel Krishna, Hare Krishna, Hare... that feeling that I don't need... okay, first tell me about the cooking part.

Cooking part is I just sit and that you say, you know, like 'I'm Yours' and then I somehow I feel inspired to do some things. It might be inquiry or prayer or sometimes swirling, sometimes chanting, sometimes... and that love, it really helps. I don't know what it helps, it does.

So how long every day?

I minimum I try to do two hours, but sometimes it's more, sometimes it's not. Usually less... I don't think I've done it less.

But eating part is how much usually?

Sorry?

What is the breakup of the cooking and eating? And we can't predict the eating part, of course, because the eating part, in the sense—I should find another word for it—because that is actually Him feeding us, or Her feeding us, the Divine Mother as you said. So that we can't really predetermine. But what is the intention? That is the point. What I'm trying to avoid is just because many times we get caught up in the active part of it and feeling like we're very spiritual, but we're not meeting the Spirit, meeting the Atma, then we may not be really spiritual. So as you look back in the last week, two weeks, how much has been the cooking and how much has been the eating?

How much exactly I don't know, but I look forward to it. I want more of it, especially that love. I feel that changes everything. That's the nourishment. That silence is few moments, few minutes.

Few minutes? What, ten, twenty?

I guess between five to ten. I'm not sure, but I guess.

And then ten minutes... so after ten minutes what happens? What makes you stop?

It's not there, but I try to get back to it with some sadhana or I don't know what. Sometimes it's just not... I don't know, I'm not sure.

To see if you can increase that by returning to the sadhana, returning to the prayer, returning to the inquiry. Yeah, thank you. So this way is also fine. You make yourself available to God, you see, and then He leads you also in terms of whether it is inquiry, whether it is prayer, whether it is contemplative reading, whether it is any other mode of spirituality. That's also fine.

I'm glad that we're doing this today because I was hoping my trip here was going to kickstart a big shift. So I start my day, I set a meditation timer for five minutes at a time because I know I'm going to get distracted. So I sat one day in some meditation, well, I just say 'God, God' and I only set the timer for five minutes because I know my mind will wander. So sometimes I'm staying with it, sometimes the chime goes, so I reset, reset. And sometimes I'll take a phrase that's come up in satsang—well, recently was 'Every moment is a choice to go to God or to go to me'—so I can just sit with that and feel enough in my heart.

And one thing I'm cheating on, but obviously not cheating, I've been counting the time listening to satsang while I've been out walking. So one of my big pleasures is walking up hills and mountains. So I listen as I walk and I set the intention, 'Every footstep take me closer to God.'

So is the intention during the walk for a healthier body, or just the walk is incidental to being with God?

It's the health of the body, and that's one of the main things that I want to shift.

Yeah, you can do it, of course, like that, but then that time is not counted. Exactly. Sounds so rough! That's why I said it's chasing that time. Only that time is counted where only intention, or at least number one intention, is God. And thank you for your honesty, where it is very easy to say, 'Actually it is God, the walking is incidental.' But there's no point if we know in our heart that it's the other way around, then it's good to admit that and start from there.

Yeah, it's very... so there are times during that walk where I feel like I'm fully with God, but as I said, the main reason for getting...

But the good thing is then if you had two hours where the intention is God, and then plus you have all this walking time where you can spend with God also, that sounds like a beautiful life.

It is. So at various points during the day, I'll sit down and again look at some satsang notes and pick a phrase or phrase... just you're doing Lectio Divina in a sense.

In a sense, yeah. Um, I've not fully gotten into the steps of the new practices, just we just look at the phrases and then allow the phrase to take you in. That is the main core of it. Is it? The prayer part helps, of course, and it's very beautiful, but it's quite simple. And in the next few months, it'll become very natural for all of us. We can increase this volume a bit; I feel like my voice is fading a bit.

So I feel like I pray to God a lot. I sometimes when I'm walking, sometimes when I'm sitting, but it's very childlike and quite often I'm apologizing, not putting the time and effort in and not even giving the space to know what God's command is in order to follow it. So I literally turn around and hand it to Him in the kind of way you said about being a temple priest. And I do that on my walks as well and literally turn around and there's a lot of gratitude for the life I've got, for the beauty in the place that I live, and so I'm often thanking God.

Yeah, you told me about this last time also. Very beautiful. Sounds like a beautiful spot for retreat. I think I'm one of these people that...

Not even giving the space to know what God's command is in order to follow it, so I literally turn around and hand it to him in the kind of way you said about being a temple priest. I do that on my walks as well, and literally turn around, and there's a lot of gratitude for the life I've got, for the beauty in the place that I live, and so I'm often thanking God.

Yeah, you told me about this last time also. It sounds like a beautiful spot for retreat.

I think I'm one of these people that Guru Ji talks about who may be blessed because they've got a terrible mind. Yeah, so if I'm not with God, then there's a lot of mental chatter. Also, the more time you spend in the silence of God's presence, when we return to the mental chatter, even if it is lesser than before, it seems like a lot and it seems the contrast—actually, it seems so much better than in previous years. When I first started following satsang with Guruji about twelve years ago, I've had some really bad states. And as you know, I have the diagnosis of bipolar, so it comes with very extreme mental states. I also have a diagnosis of autism, which part of that is the anxiety of being around people. So there's a lot going on. So it is a great relief when I spend time with God.

I bless you. I bless you with all my heart. I bless you. Very good, very good.

I speak—I have a terrible headache today. It's because of your cold. And Father, just like I've been feeling more and more to know God, to really—I mean, every day I've been waking up with the question that 'Who are you?' and I really want to know you.

'Who are you?' is the same as 'Who am I?' We can ask God who he is.

And because I feel like I don't know the broadness and the magnanimity, I don't know him like that. And Father, just—it's not so much inquiry, but maybe reading. So I've been reading Saint Mother Teresa, Saint Teresa of Avila, and I have been reading whatever scriptures that come along on a daily basis, whatever books on contemplation, etc. And I've been watching a lot of Shiva and these—I mean, I was not used to watching some of them. I mean, I would have watched some of it while growing up, but this is very different because every time, because I want something and then it hits home, and there's just like a pouring of—like I can't stop my tears and just it's a crying out to Lord. So that happens. And earlier, when you had introduced Adas, it was not very natural to wake up and do that, do Adas, but now it comes naturally, like it's the first thing that comes. So that's become more natural. But I've been wanting to wake up in the morning and just study for a couple of hours; that hasn't happened. So throughout the day it happens for one hour, it happens in the morning, but that's it. Like I pray and I read and then it's generally—so if I'm reading a paragraph, then there are a lot of contemplative questions and those questions only lead me to a quietness. And then after that, I can't explain the process, but it leads me to a quiet way. So that happens.

Very yeah. And so can you break it up into cooking and eating? What's the—how much time is spent? No, which one? Like that saying, like or a percentage?

Father, is it also possible that the cooking is happening spontaneously? Like in the sense, like I'm walking through the day and suddenly I'll feel a presence, then I'll stop.

Yeah, and that is eating. No, then?

Yeah, so that is happening in different moments throughout the day. But I feel more time in cooking than eating for sure, because throughout the day there is different, different episodes of cooking. But the eating also happens sometimes right after the contemplation eating happens, and sometimes it's just—it'll happen randomly, you know.

Yeah, so one way to do like this, if you're enjoying contemplative reading a lot, is that just with every passage do the full reading, contemplating it, what we would usually call meditating on it. A prayer for divine grace for revelation and just then waiting for him to show us really what we are being taught. Because without him showing us, we can be in satsang for many lifetimes and not really get anything. So that part is really important: to learn to be led by him, guided by him, to learn his tutelage is the most important part of a spiritual journey. Suppose you're contemplating a passage. So there only, if you've contemplated it, then just allow yourself to sit because really there's nothing left for you to do. You applied your mind, intellect, you've done all your reading, senses. You applied your senses, you applied your mind, intellect, you went to your heart and you prayed. Now you just have to dive in, isn't it? It's very beautiful, almost Nirguna in that way, no?

Father, when you just saying the example of 'I am Brahman,' you just explained that I can use my intellect, and this is exactly what I went through also. I've used my intellect to understand it, I have used intellect to even see the expansiveness of it, but nothing—unless and until it is given by my Lord, exactly, I will never be able to see it. So, and it is only his grace, and I see this exactly.

So yeah, I feel like I need to learn more and more how to contemplate. This is what—this is very good because humility helps us to stay there. Because if you already feel like, 'Oh, I understood it,' then we can't really remain like helpless children in his presence. So the humility that 'I can really never fathom even one Mahavakya like I am Brahman or Brahman is all there is, I cannot fathom it without your help'—it's very beautiful, you see. And it doesn't matter how many times we may feel like we had the direct insight of it in the past. How does it matter? If I lived my whole life as a Brahma Gyani and now I'm trying to just understand it with my intellect, can I? I can't. So every moment of the truth has to be guided by God alone, by the Atma itself. You see, this is the trick. This is the thing that most people who become proud of their spirituality don't realize: that you could have spent your entire life in the highest insight, but in this moment if you let go of God, all your knowledge is gone. So this humility of a beginner is very good. Just, 'Can I see it without God's assistance? I can't.' Doesn't matter who you are. Even if you're the greatest sage who ever lived, they are not Atma; they are not able to create for themselves an insight, a single insight. It is in their non-existence that it is shown.

Sorry, can I say one—yes, no, sorry, maybe I shouldn't. I should just pass it, I don't know.

Okay, we're going to stop here anyway because okay, I can sense that afterward.

Father, the insights, you know, that for so many years that I've been around and been here, the insights have come, Father. But for it to assimilate and for me to, like you're saying, eating—it's very hard to say, but this mechanism, I feel like this muscle of being able to contemplate things on my own, and this was not—I knew I would hear it and I would assimilate it and I would fully take it in satsang, but then for it to stay in my heart, and that's been a very different process.

Yes, exactly. Having been in satsang for twelve years, it's not possible that you had no insight, otherwise you wouldn't have continued. So of course insight is there, but it's always best to feel like nothing has happened so far. Like a lot of children very sweetly will make a false report about me; it is that I'm very humble and very down to earth and all of those things. It's just not true. I'm just reporting the truth that whatever I've seen, whatever spirituality I have known, God makes me a beginner in this moment, every moment. Because without relying on him, without relying on the Atma to guide me, I can't have one moment of spiritual insight, one word which I can claim to share in satsang. So it's not that we put on a beginner mindset; it is that we recognize that we are beginners. Very good. Like the scriptures are divided on that, and just—it's possible, of course it's possible. It's possible, but I would be just a little careful if it is with no cooking at all. But it's possible, like it could be just the breath; one breath could be the cooking. But we have to just keep experimenting in this way, do these holy experiments and see what works for us. There's no badge of honor for eating without cooking. There's no—we have to be careful of all of that pride if it comes. There's nothing that—who will you ever convince about that, or who will even care? Nobody. Everybody's too bothered with their own stuff to be concerned about that. Just make sure that—why I've been saying is that many of us, I feel, are missing out on just the quiet, loving glance of sitting with God, looking at him lovingly, allowing him to love your heart. I feel like many of us are just not doing that because we feel like it's too passive or something like that. Okay, so we'll end today. We'll continue this conversation. I know that there are many things left on continue mode, which is 'Heaven in Faith,' 'What is Contemplation' by Thomas Merton, this conversation. But when I started satsang today, I just felt like, do I really know how many satsangs are left? And if there are children who don't really have a sense of how they can be with God, then what have I done? So I want to do this first urgently, and then it's enough time to continue where we left off. So can I hear—everyone of you feel like you have some tools to be with God? And she's new, so you want to share something? My child, yeah, you feel that if you were never to hear satsang, any satsang again, you have the tools to be in God's presence by yourself?

I mean, I don't really know, but I've never been to satsang before. What I do is I meditate. I don't do much, but it lasts from five to ten minutes, but there is some disturbance for me to meditate. And I chant mantras, that's it.

So the mantra chanting leads you into a meditative state, is that what it is, what your practice? Yeah, it gives me a state of calm. So what brought you to satsang? What brought you to this satsang? Somebody told you about it? Manu told you? Very, very—know that the first few can seem like it's a different planet, some different language is being used. For the first few satsangs it can feel difficult to get on the same page. But if you give it a try and you come for a few times, you may get a deeper sense of what is happening. Yeah, I'll try to. Want to say something more?

No, that's it.

Anyone who feels that they need some help with the tools, how to be with God? This is not a question where you're supposed to be kind with me, okay? This is an important question. Inquiry—how many are doing from the ones who haven't spoken? Inquiry, prayer, Adas? I think that covers it. Manu, getting back in, did I miss on anyone? Okay, so we'll go individually. You said—An said no, no, no, I'm saying did you raise your hand for which one? Adas? Okay, so I can sense that my body is starting to—but we will sing the Hanuman Chalisa and then close. There's so many to be continued. No, Rithman among 'Heaven in Faith' and 'What is Contemplation.' What did you enjoy more? We'll start with that again. Only for heaven, just 'What is Contemplation.' We just read and we didn't really contemplate. Okay, maybe I finish 'What is Contemplation' also, just the reading of it, then I won't get into what is not contemplation. That's also beautiful. I say that all of you can read yourselves; that's very, very nice. It's very—and then we can restart 'Heaven in Faith' if you want. It's a beautiful book to contemplate. And what you can do is if you have some passages, if you came across something which you feel like is very spiritually potent, even if it is just for you, it is fine.

We didn't really contemplate. Okay, maybe I finish what is contemplation also, just the reading of it. Then I won't get into what is not contemplation; that's also beautiful. I say that all of you can read yourselves. That's very, very nice. It's very... and then we can restart Heaven in Faith if you want. It's a beautiful book to contemplate. And what you can do is, if you have some passages, if you came across something which you feel like is very spiritually potent, even if it is just for you, it is fine. You can bring that to Satsang and for a few Satsangs I can just listen to all of you just sharing that passage and contemplating it, leading everyone in contemplation. Yes, all of us must be coming across some things every day. So, in your notebooks, can you add so that I can just rest and listen?