Have Faith That God Is Here - 1st December 2023

So this is the Saguna, just pure attribute. They just playing, all this movement, you see. And what is known? What did the Vedantic sages say about the world of attributes? They said it's unreal. And they also said it's unreal because it does not stay. Everything that you perceive comes and goes. Only that which does not come and go is reality, correct? So nothing in the realm of perception is constant or permanent. And we'll talk about attachment and desire and aversion, all of that separately. So that is Saguna.

Now Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi asked this question. He said: In whose light do you perceive the light of even the sun? Or in whose light are you perceiving even the light in this room? In whose light are you perceiving anything at all? Whose light is that? Your own light. Your own light, exactly. It's your own light. What is this own light? Where it come from? What is this light? Everyone confirms this is our own light. And 'own', we'll see who that 'own' is, whose light that is. But we are not saying that it is a product of flesh. You're not saying it's a product of food. All that is also part of the perception which is perceived in the light which we are calling our own light. In my light do I perceive the light of the sun now.

Now this light, for the moment let's call it Atma. For the moment let's call it Atma. So when Atma is here, in the light of the Atma, in the light of the presence—Atma, presence, beingness, I-am-ness, Holy Spirit, the holy word—all of these things, use them synonymously. So for today's contemplation, let's say this is the Atma. So this Atma, is it Saguna or Nirguna? And don't refer to the previous satsang because you know the answer. Try to meet it fresh. So everything that is with attributes is observed in the light of the Atma. And the Atma itself is what? With attributes or without?

Okay, one says without, other answer. So it's perceived, but is it perceived like this?

Okay, so one says completely empty of perception, another says it is also perceived. You see, but what you're saying is that it is perceived but different. See, because if I say, 'Can you see it?' you can't see it. Are you hearing it, touching it, tasting it? You say no to all of that. You see, but you may say that it has a primordial, the subtlest vibration. And a vibration means Nirguna or Saguna? You see, so to vibrate, the vibration itself is a quality. You must be noticing the vibration for us to say that it vibrates. You see, and now it doesn't vibrate like this, like this. There's like a... okay, I don't want to over-define it because you'll start imagining stuff. So this is why I say that this is on the cusp, Saguna and Nirguna. It is both Saguna and Nirguna. And actually then the whole bhajan from the sage could be devoted to this presence because this presence is both Saguna and Nirguna. It is Akar and Nirakar. All the verses of bhajan could be applied to this and therefore then we could also say that this is the presence of God itself. But we'll come to that in a moment. But everyone's with me so far?

Now how many are feeling like this Atma, the both dual nature of it or the cusp, it's... you've lost us? I've lost all of you? And even online, how many of you feeling that lost? Okay, one hand, at least one honest satsang member. So let's really explore this because this, when we looking at things from this side, we going from the Saguna to the Nirguna. The Saguna itself we spent a lot of time on in our life. Most of it goes in the consideration of that which has attributes. So let's go inwards from there and see where that gets us.

So do you have to be awake to notice even the light of the sun? You have to be awake. Now if you asleep, then sun, moon, you don't know; stars, what's happening, you don't know. You see, whether you're in limbo, whether there is a world, whether anything was ever born, all of that, in that, at that time at least it's lost to you. You may conjecture and say, 'Oh, my body was sleeping,' all that stuff, but it's all gone, isn't it, for that moment of time? So that wakefulness comes from where? Does it come from outside you? So every day some wakefulness comes to you, to the body, and you wake up. Is it like that? There's a wakefulness or aliveness or beingness which is here now. How do you know that you are awake? Your first answer will be because I perceive a world. You see, now this is a good experiment, no? So if the world slowly started dissolving, sight went away, are you still here? The sight went away. Okay, tell me when you go. Hearing is going, smell, touch, taste is going. If all of that went away, then would you be asleep? Be much more awake. Okay, very good. So what tells you that you are awake right now independent of the Saguna? That's what we are discovering. That if everything that is sensory, everything that is perceived was to go away like in a deep meditation, then every deep meditation would be a deep sleep. But you say, 'No, no, I was not sleeping, I was meditating.' Yes? So that sense of being, is it perceived or unperceived? Perceived? Okay, perceived in what way is it perceived? Sight, sound, touch, smell, taste? Is it like imagination, memory? You see, so this perception, non-perception, phenomenal, non-phenomenal, that is your Atma because you can confirm its presence. Nobody's confused whether they awake or asleep. But that the presence of whom? The I-am-ness, the Atma, the beingness can be confirmed by us. You see, yes, I perceive it, but in what way do we perceive it?

So when I ask all of you, can you try and stop being? Try to not be for the moment. What do you find? Yeah, there is a presence. You see, now this presence is both phenomenal and non-phenomenal, is it? Because we confirming, like you say, is there Ananta, is there? You see, it's... I can't point a finger to it, but I am here. See, I am here. This I-am-ness is here, is it? So this I-am-ness is confirmed. Now if I ask you, what is the boundary of this being? Try to find it. Boundary? Yes, exactly. Entirety of it. Exactly, exactly. This is the main point.

So look at it this way, that that which is purely Nirguna is the Ultimate Reality. You see, and this is metaphorical, okay, I don't... maybe it's true, but realize that when it's playing this game of Maya, when it is playing this game of the Leela, what it is is so far out from name and form, so far-fetched to the intellect and mind of name and form, obsessed with name and form, that if it remained purely Nirguna, you see, then it would never discover itself. Playing, playing in this human condition, you could never find, is it? And also then if it made itself appear in a purely objective way, you see, then the idealization that we do would be an end in itself and not leading to the deeper discovery of God. You know what I'm saying? It was just we could find an object. You see, so if everybody had like an object like the heart, next to the heart there was an object called God's presence, then it would just become like an actual object and we could just idolize that object and be with that. But then we would never yearn for the unperceivable nature of reality because that object would... so what did God have to do? God had to create its presence, God's presence, in a way that we could find it also. You see, we need that taste of it, like she's saying, have a taste of it. And yet if it just become limited by that taste like a sweetness, then finished. But it's not. You're confirming that it is boundless, yes? The presence is like the finger of the being which is the body, you see. So it's the tip of the iceberg, you see. So we can't say the finger is the body, the body is the...

So, what did God have to do? God had to create His presence in a way that we could find it also, you see. We need that taste of it, like she's saying, have a taste of it. And yet, if it just becomes limited by that taste like a sweetness, then finished. But it's not; you're confirming that it is boundless. Yes, the presence is like the finger of the being which is the body, you see. So, it's the tip of the iceberg, you see. So, we can't say the finger is the body; the body has the finger, you see. But the taste of the being is not the entirety of the being. Like you yourself are saying, the taste is of the finger, you see, which is the presence, the Atma. Okay? But the being is Ishwar, Paramatma itself is the unfathomable, boundless reality of God Consciousness.

So, it's like, okay, so the finger is like the presence that you taste, like God's presence is within myself, you see. When we can confirm that it is within myself, then we can say that is the Atma, you see. Now, when we say, what is the boundary of this presence? You see, it is everywhere. You see, it is boundless. And then we are relying more on intuition rather than the taste, see. So, that is the distinction. When I say, can you stop being? You get a taste of your being. Then I say, what is the boundary of your being? You move to a purely intuitive looking, hopefully, where the taste is not the centrality, the central thing to be able to confirm that the being is boundless. So, the presence of the being is the Atma, the being himself is the Paramatma, and remember that there is no real distinction between them. But it's just like the tip of the iceberg is the same as the iceberg; the finger is the same as the hand, you see. It's the same substance, but qualitatively it's like a helping hand which is made available to us.

So, when we come to the Nirguna from this side—and that day we looked at it from that side—then this is a great helping hand. Now, for many of you who are not fathoming this being, this Atma, this Holy Spirit, find some love in your heart. Find and make it empty of all conditions for a moment. Just focus on the love itself. Don't make it about anybody. Maybe to trigger it, you have to think of someone to remember God, or remember a child, or a parent, or a beloved, or whatever you need to do to invoke that love. Then just focus on the love itself. Found it? Sorry if I go too fast. Usually remembering a loved one invokes that love, yes? Switch it on. So, the taste of it is apparent, which is peace. But I can't say the taste of it is peace, no. Okay, so use the peace. Are you experiencing peace? Very good, very good. So, use the peace and find out the source of that peacefulness. Where is it coming from? That's the same thing I was going to do with love, you see. So, love, peace, joy—it is unconditional. The source is your Atma itself, is the being itself, yes. Is the source outside?

No.

Do you have to be awake to experience that peace?

Yes.

So, every time you are awake, you experience that peace?

No.

So, there are times where wakefulness is there but peace is not there, and there are times where wakefulness is there but peace is there. So, there's a wakefulness which is independent of peace, is it? Which you are confirming. You are awake. When you confirm you are awake, is it based on the peace?

No.

What is it based on? Is it based on just the perception of the world of which peace is part of it? Ah, so this is worth experimenting. We found that this much is seen: that it's independent of peace that you're awake. You can confirm whether peace is present or not present, yes? Take your time also. If this also means time, it's very good to contemplate this. So, there is a presence. It's okay to call this wakefulness 'presence' because of the wakefulness we say 'I am here,' no? 'I am present' or 'this presence is here,' like 'I am alive' or 'I'm here,' isn't it? So, what is that which is present? I lost you? Able to follow or not? I'll just come to you.

Yes, the peace is apparent. Yes, the peace is apparent. And then the question was, where does this peace come from? He said, 'I cannot decipher where it comes from.' But one clue that I'm giving is that it is apparent only when we are awake, you see. Now, but every time we are awake doesn't necessarily mean that there is peace. There could be some other perception also. So, there's a wakefulness, there's a presence which is independent of peace or not peace. So, what is perceiving that peace? That question, let's see. You have to be awake to perceive that peace, isn't it? That one who is awake, who is here, who is present, is the Atma.

So, these are very subtle things. In the world, they are referred to as Brahma Gyan or something which is very difficult to come to. It is difficult because we are so used to using our mind to understand. And to allow yourself to feel safe enough to drop the mind usually takes a few sessions of what we call a defrosting that happens. Because initially when everyone comes, they just, 'Yes, yes, no, no, haha, no, no, got it, not getting it.' So, that traffic is too much initially. I've observed in the last twelve years or so that it usually takes a few sessions for that traffic to mellow down and for us to really have to become independent of the twittering of the mind to come to an insight about what is being spoken.

But the good thing is that even if it feels like, 'I'm not understanding at the moment,' somewhere something is getting seated, you see. Somewhere something is being met because our Atma being is the same, actually. So, these words are actually coming from that same being, that same Atma. If we just bear with the frustration a bit, like 'I can't understand what's happening,' all that of it, then it may get easier for you as you go along. So, the problem is not that it is too difficult; the problem is that it is too simple for the mind to grasp. So, because it can't really get a fix on this, it's limited to the realm of perception and to judge that, to create some understanding, to create some narratives. So, it does all that. But here, these are subtler realms which the mind and intellect cannot reach. That only your Antahkarana, your intuitive insight, can reach.

And what it needs is a sheer innocence, like a sheer innocence. You'll have to drop all your spiritual knowledge also, all the spiritual experiences also. Just you have to come to the innocence of a child to be able to look at things without knowing any names, without the mind saying, 'This is that, this is like this.' It's a very direct process. So, my submission will be: just bear with it for a while. See, something will start to flower. But it's very natural for the first few sessions for the mind. And this discovery, which we are taking just ten, fifteen minutes to come to, is the end point of most spiritual movements. They come to an end at this point, to come to the Darshan of the Atma. To come to Atma is the end in the sense as far as the words of that tradition go, because then in the light of the Atma itself, the Absolute is known very naturally.

So, what we are doing here is we're trying to move away from just a spiritual understanding, a set of spiritual concepts. Because everybody's heard these words: Atma, jagat, Guru, Jivatma, Ishwar, Brahman, Paramatma. All of these words. But are they just going to remain words? And are those words going to help? They don't help when life makes us suffer. When life squeezes our throat, then the words are the first to go. All the knowledge that we learned, all the books that we read, usually go when the rubber hits the road. But when it becomes living inside, even that in the Maya is so compelling sometimes that even that is forgotten, you have to admit. But it is not as easily left as words are. So, I don't want to leave you with just a set of words, because a book could have done that. It has to become your direct insight.

It is the simplest discovery and the most difficult discovery. Simplest and most difficult. It is for this discovery that Buddha said a man may win a hundred wars or win over a thousand armies, but the one who can win over their mind is the rarer one. So, in that way, it sounds almost intimidating and impossible. But who is that one? That one is just one who has returned to an innocence, a childlike innocence with integrity, not like as a tactic.

Question: It's very, very clear now, Father, in terms of presence of being and being. It's very clear, yes, brother, it's clear. And when you say be in presence or be with God, I assume you're saying you be in His presence as much as you can. But in this also, the confusion is, is there something called awareness and Consciousness also which is different from these two?

I'm coming to that, I'm coming to that. So, Consciousness is the boundless being. The way we use the word is synonymous with that. So, Consciousness, Saguna Brahman, all synonymous. Paramatma, all synonymous. The boundless God. But let's wait a while for those online also and those in the room also to make a report about this, the discovery of this being. And while we contemplate that, I'm just going to take a few minutes to just share what are the helpful things in the human condition which can make this discovery simpler. You may find in your head that there's no connection, so how does that help? But it does help.

So, humility is very helpful. An absence of pride is rocket fuel for your inquiry. If you take yourself to be somebody, if you think you are something, if you know too much, then it seems very difficult to come to this. So, humility is very, very important. Faith, which means to trust your intuitive insight, your insight from the Satguru presence, more than what your perceptions are telling you, what your perceptions are showing you, and especially what your mind is telling you. To have faith. And if you feel that you have had no intuitive insight, then to have faith that what your master is pointing you to is there. There is a greater reality, there is God's presence which lives within yourself. Yeah, and that's what it sounds like.

So, this God's presence that lives within yourself initially may seem like it is just imaginary. It may seem too far-fetched. How is it even possible to meet it? It may seem like that. But have faith. Trust the words of the sages. The words of the masters have all pointed us to this: the reality of God's presence. And I'm not the first one to say that without this discovery, our whole life may go, birth to death may happen, but we would not have lived a single day. So, it is very, very important that we prioritize this. If not make this all that our life is about, at least make this on top of the list. The discovery of God as a true discovery, as a true insight in the form of the presence, the Atma within, the spirit within, is very important.

So, have faith that God's presence is here. Live like God's presence is here. Don't live worried and full of anxiety and full of a false sense of responsibility, as if you are running this whole world in your life. You know that you cannot. You don't know how to fire a single neuron in your head, if there is such a thing, you see. Nobody knows. But we say, 'Oh, I did this and I did that.' How? So, don't take on things which you have no idea about. Have faith that there is a presence, there is an intelligence here that runs this life. And if it takes care of birds and trees and fish, it will take care of your life also. See, birds have no savings bank account, no current accounts. Trees don't know when the next storm is coming, and yet something takes care of them. Birds are so beautiful, and there's an intelligence that flaps their wings. I keep talking about this example of a documentary I saw once where a bird in the first year of its life, it was alone, just eating the fish from the lake or the river next to it. But when the seasons were changing, it started to fly in a different direction. And all those birds fly in that same direction when the season changes. The humans call it migration.

A storm is coming and yet something takes care of them. Birds are so beautiful and there's an intelligence that flaps their wings. I keep talking about this example of a documentary I saw once where a bird in the first year of its life was alone, just eating the fish from the lake or the river next to it. But when the seasons were changing, it started to fly in a different direction, and all those birds fly in that same direction when the season changes. The humans call it migration, migratory birds, you see. But the bird doesn't have a compass, it doesn't have an atlas, it doesn't know countries; it just starts to fly. How does it know? Also, in another one I saw that birds fly up to 200 or 300 kilometers when they recognize that there's water, there's rain in another part of the land, so they fly over there. There is no physical indication 200 kilometers away that it's raining over there. There is an innate intelligence which comes from life itself, and that intelligence is not alien to us, you see. We just have forgotten about it. It is the one that is beating our heart, it is making our breath flow, making the hand move, making these words come out. That intelligence is running our life actually, but the false ego has taken on that mantle and it says, 'I, I, I, I am doing this kind of thing.' So have faith that God is here until you find His presence for yourself. Have faith that God is here because the one that you call Guru or Master or Father, you see, that you've given some credibility to in your life, that is his main message: that God is real, He is present. And he's telling you that he's speaking from his own insight about it, his own discovery about it. So you can either say that he's really foolish and doesn't know what he's talking about, or he must be saying it because it is true. And I'm saying that it is true for all of you.

So live in the faith of God's reality. Live in the faith of God's justice. Don't take on things onto yourself—resentment, pride—none of that is your business because it's for God to manage all of that anyway. That's a longer conversation. We'll come to following God's will; we'll come to that in a moment because first it is important to meet His presence and then we can follow His will. But gratitude and prayerfulness are very, very important things. So all of that which I have described so far is servitude, and a deep love and servitude together make up the beautiful Sanskrit and Hindi word called Bhakti. So when this servitude is met with a deep love for God in your heart—or even if you feel like you don't love God, if you have an unconditional love and you remain anchored in that—that is love for God itself. Service without love is not Bhakti, and love without service is not Bhakti. So the deeper the Bhakti, the deeper the Gyan, the true intuitive insight; and the deeper the Gyan, the deeper the Bhakti. It's a virtuous circle. If you deepen in your faith, in your humility, in your prayerfulness, your gratitude, in your obedience to God, if you deepen in your love for Him, then your insight will naturally deepen. And as you deepen in your insight about reality, then you will deepen in your devotion as well.

So when you run out of moves in the world, even then you can never run out of moves towards God. We can always be more humble, we can always be more loving, we can always be more faithful, more prayerful, more obedient to God's will. And when it seems like the words of Gyan, the words of the question 'Are you aware now?' or 'Can you stop being?', all these discovery questions may seem too far-fetched for the moment, you can always pray. You can always laugh. Okay, so sorry about that digression. So when we come to the recognition of the boundless beingness, the boundless Consciousness, Paramatma, Saguna Brahman, you may even ask yourself: Who is aware of this being? Who is aware of that which is awake? 'I am awake, I just woke up.' That means you were aware that wakefulness was not there, and now you are aware that wakefulness is there. Because if you're just waking, waking, waking and you were not aware of the time when you were not awake, then you could never say, 'I just woke up.' The time shifted, what happened? So that awareness which is independent of waking state, sleep state, dream state, and even Turiya, which is the highest meditative state, that awareness is your absolute reality. And this is completely non-phenomenal. It's a purely intuitive insight, you see. Somebody comes and says, 'Oh, my awareness looks all dark and empty,' then they got it wrong. Who is aware of the darkness and emptiness? So this insight is completely non-objective, it's completely intuitive.

So the method of coming to self-discovery is the method of being intuitive. Because you may think and think and think and think a hundred thousand times, as Guru Nanak Ji said, it'll never be a product of your thinking. And you may do as much smartness, he said, you may apply as much smartness as you want. But all your smartness—and that smartness doesn't mean 'Oh, I'm like very street smart,' it's including all the spiritual smartness that 'this one said that' and 'this one said this' and 'this Upanishad said like that' and 'that commentary of God's, this Mandukya Upanishad has this'—all that smartness will not help you unless you're using it to come to a true intuitive insight. What mechanism do we have to find that which is purely non-phenomenal? In the world, we've been taught how to deal with phenomenal things, isn't it? How to find that which is non-phenomenal, Nirguna? This whole satsang is because she sang that bhajan in the beginning. So how to find that Nirguna? What mechanisms do we have to find things or to grab things? Can you find the Nirguna with your hand? Can you grasp it? You can't grasp it with your hand. Can you smell it? Can you touch it? Can you taste it? Can you see it? Can you hear it? It is without attributes. Then what is the extent of what you can do to come to this? Do anything? You can do something, I'll tell you what, which is that there's a huge clue in the first chapter, second chapter of 'Be As You Are.' Bhagavan said, and I repeat this almost every satsang, that the Self will not be a new attainment for you, but you have to free yourself from ignorance, avidya. When you are free from avidya, then the Self becomes apparent.

See, what is avidya? Avidya is our conceptual understanding of the nature of reality. I refer to the Self as that Nirguna Brahman. The presence has... yes, yes, there's... you say there's a 'hereness,' there's a presence. What do you say? But 'hereness,' it's not the same as 'this laptop is here.' No. Is it a different space? I define that for you.

How do you know that you are awake? How do you know you're awake? Are you awake? Yeah, you're awake now. Do you know that because you're perceiving the world? Yeah, kind of. Which perception really? Which perception confirms it for you? You are awake. Any perception? Any? So sight went away, you're still awake. That's just... without speculating, I have to...

No, no. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. Okay, you still awake or no? Yeah, still awake. Now you have to speculate a bit because you can't close your ears, close your nose. But isn't it like so naturally obvious? Because sight is the biggest grasper. Once sight goes away, then it's very obvious that, okay, sight also went away. If hearing also went away, smell also went away, taste also went away... or can you identify one sense where you would say, 'Now this is too much, I will also go away. If this goes away, I will not be'? If this perception went away, space went away...

Space went away with sight, isn't it? I can still say where the other senses... I can feel.

So if that sensation of feeling the body also went away, would you be asleep? Something, some perception is there. Yes. Now, is that perception telling you that you are awake? Because if that perception was not there, would you say, 'I have fallen asleep'? No. This is intuitive. It's just so obviously no. So this that wakes up, this is the one we say wakes up. No, I say 'I woke up this morning.' Notice it tomorrow, first thing in the morning. Who are you referring to when you say 'I woke up'? This one. This is the presence. This is the Atma. This is the Holy Spirit. This is the Satguru. First you have to stop thinking so much. You keep intellectualizing, then it will seem difficult. So it's played its part in your life, it's helped you deepen in philosophy and all of those things. Now you have to really become fully intuitive, fully heartfelt. And heartfelt is not just like nice-nice and gooey-gooey like that, although that may happen naturally; kindness and compassion may happen naturally as you live in the heart. But truly heartfelt is to be intuitive. How do you know love? You love someone. Never love perceiving love. You perceive what? You perceive what?

There's a feeling. No, you perceive a feeling. But is there someone you love even if the feeling is that you're angry with them? The anger goes.

Okay, so parents may find this easier, that we can confirm that we love our children even if the feeling at that moment is anger. So what is that love?

So I love my children and I love you, so that just brings me to that space in my chest like that. But taste love? Yes, because the tasting could be of something else at that moment. I may be frustrating you a lot in satsang, you see. The feeling maybe irritation, 'Why is he saying like this? What words is he talking about?' But if someone asks you, 'Do you love your Master?' Yes, even then. Even in that moment of experiencing anger, experiencing frustration, because the love that is felt is independent of that feeling. It is actually unconditional.

So love and the presence is the same? It's like an anchor, like it just brings me back, like the attention comes back to the presence.

Yes, but it's not the same thing, Father, you're saying? Or no, it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. It's like an intuitive knowing, like I correct... you know it intuitively. You know the love intuitively.

Yeah, but love is like the best friend of the being. But you can't say it is the being itself. Because then the being would be confined just to love. But the being is so much more. It is also just like an intelligence, it is also aliveness. Like from the being all these things come. It itself is like water. It gives rise to coconut water, nimbu pani, Coca-Cola, Pepsi; all those colors and shapes come from that. Without water, none of these are possible. But it itself is the source of all of this and much more. Everything that is the Atma, it is just that much Gyan that it is like the primordial vibration, the subtlest vibration possible. Everything else flowers within that, rises within that, but not like it's a huge space or something. It's just like the light of the projector. When the projector bulb comes on, the whole movie comes on, you see. So is the movie inside the bulb? You see, it's not inside the bulb in that way, but all of it is dependent on the bulb. The minute the bulb goes, it's all like sleep state. Isn't that our experience?

So it feels like a... it's like a doorway this way and a doorway that way.

Yes, exactly. Go this way from love to presence to being to the Absolute, then it serves as a portal that way. And you go that way from the unperceivable recognition of awareness to that Saguna which is being, which is presence, which is the source of presence itself, to presence, to the experience of the phenomenal world. That is what the whole game is designed, the whole Leela is like this. So the Christians say the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Now you can extrapolate the same thing: the Nirguna Brahman, the Saguna, and the Atma. And Holy Spirit, same; Atma and Holy Spirit is practically the same word. Father, the awareness; awareness, Consciousness, and the presence, being. Yeah, the presence is that primordial taste, but we taste it like the water—it is tasteless.

Experience of the phenomenal world, that is what the whole game is designed for. The whole Leela is like this. So the Christians say the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Now you can extrapolate the same thing: the Nirguna Brahman, the Saguna Brahman, and the Atma. Holy Spirit and Atma are practically the same word. Awareness, Consciousness, and the presence of being. The presence is that primordial taste, but we taste it like water. It is tasteless, but you still taste water, isn't it? What is the taste of water? Neutral. But you still taste that neutrality, you see. We can tell it's not Coca-Cola because the senses are like Coca-Cola. So you have all this shape, color, size, all this play of light and sound; they are the soft drinks. But it's all made up of the water. It's all in the light of—I'm really stretching the metaphor—but really, in that presence, there is an inherent quality. It's a natural companion, that's why it's like a best friend, you see. But 'inherent' is a confusing word over there because it's very, very natural for there to be unconditional love in the presence.

But is the presence independent even of love? Yes, the presence is apparent right now, but I'm not tasting the love. Exactly, exactly. And I'm not tasting the love, the unconditional love. But when you speak of love, then it comes here. It's like that in my experience. And then when you deepen in that love—deepen in that love—as you suppose you're just like loving Amma, you're watching a video of her and you're really loving her expression. You're watching it and you're just, 'Ah, she's so good, so good, so good.' There comes a point where that love itself takes you to a stillness. Experiment with this and see. There comes a point where nothing may be tasted, just your presence. That is what in the Atma, samadhi is—a swarupa samadhi where the presence is apparent, the world has vanished, all feelings and thoughts are vanished, everything is vanished. You just come.

Questions always arise when this thing is a little... so can we do it right now? Like, how to shift? Just like, it's apparent in my chest, like the vibration is palpable. There is no feeling of love, but it's clear that this is what I am. Infinity is what I am. That's it. So when we keep talking of love, what is the...?

Yeah, for those whom this is not apparent that way, you see. But you can still remember your kids and feel love for them.

So like many times when the mind is like... I'm in my mind and I say, you say, 'Love God.' Yes, so that is like a handle to have. It's like a remembrance of God itself will bring some love. Or like if you love a baby or if you love Krishna, then the remembrance of it doesn't always bring... like say if my mind is active, you know, I'm with my mind and then I remember your words, 'Love God with all your heart.' It doesn't bring the taste of love, but it just probably just brings me back here. So is there an expression of God which you deeply love?

Krishna.

Krishna. So when you remember Krishna—do experiment—just say 'Krishna' to yourself four or five times and don't love. Love is not a... I don't know, I'm not trying... close your eyes. It's too muchy. Try not to love. No, you can't do it. Why? Because love comes.

Don't talk of Krishna. It looks like some other Krishna, some other God. I start laughing. Like if I see Krishna or something reminds me of Krishna, it just brings me here. But you're saying love comes with it. Just close your eyes, say 'Krishna' five times and don't feel any love.

Sorry, what is the other...? Because I know what's going to happen in this.

Yeah, and for another it may be Jesus, for another it may be Allah, for another it may be the Master, it may be anything. But in all our lives, at least one—maybe our children, maybe our parents, maybe something—is there that brings us to where it's impossible not to come to love in the remembrance of that.

Not tasting... I'm sorry, something like... like Krishna. I'm saying 'Krishna,' no love is coming. It's almost like I fear that no love will come. Like something, something is there around this topic. So it doesn't have to be four or five times. The remembrance of the Beloved will bring the love.

Some kich-kich is happening because your mind doesn't like that. It doesn't like it. It's like...

But I can come to the... something constructed around the topic and it feels like in this way it'll break. So just tell me another way. Tell me in some other thing. Just explain it to me. Don't show me. Something is happening there. Something is that which is saying that help me understand it, you see. Help me understand it rather than just... it is the voice of the mind which has 'help me understand it' more than something is so scared, like I just don't want to look at this.

Okay, when you go home, put on Krishna bhajans.

No way that I want... love is so beautiful that we can love him even if it feels like... but how do I love? How do I love? Just remember him and be. Love happens when you see. No, it doesn't work like that. Yeah, it's not like a magic pill, one tablet Krishna. Not like that. Remember like Krishna... can I just get my... what you want to say? I don't know. No, this topic just definitely brings kich-kich inside. Yeah, because there's like a 'left out' feeling attached to it where many times we just like, 'Love, love, love.' What are they talking about? So it can create itself in the corner of the classroom just feeling like, 'Okay, kids love them. I'm not feeling okay. Only I love my kids.' How you know? I know intellect. I love you. There's no doubt. Is it intellectual then?

So when you remember them as babies, when you remember sometimes in satsang, then love will come. Yeah, it doesn't always come. It's not a remote control. So what if love comes? I mean, why are we so much... okay, I'm just going to speak the... why are we always like, 'Love, love, love, love'? I mean...

So when you are anchored in love, then your mind doesn't have much chance. So anchored in the taste of love—love in whatever way—is remembering, 'Oh, I love my Master so much.' Not remembering, but actually just experiencing that. Doesn't work like that for me. I don't understand, seriously. I'm just going to speak the... coming. Okay, I need to get... I don't understand.

Yeah, I'm not asking you to understand. Yeah, so keep that understanding aside, which is the tool of understanding, the mind. Keep it aside. Okay, now don't love. Just be in presence. Don't love.

I don't get it.

Don't... keep that aside, the 'get, not get.' No love. But it doesn't always come. Keep that as it's coming now, in spite of best attempts. Maybe this is the checkmate move for your mind that is resisting it so much. So what to do? Just... there's nothing. Just remain open, empty. If your mind is not troubling you, then no problem.

Until the love topic is brought up, it doesn't trouble.

So that's usually been a clue. No, it's usually been a clue in the past. If you look back at our satsang experiences together in the last how many—five, seven, eight years, eight, nine years—we've always had topics like, 'I can't tell about aware versus being,' you know, or something like that. I don't know what that topic was, but when there was friction around it... what is the...? I used to say something about awareness itself that I used to say often and it used to irritate you. But when you came to that, you realized it was just something blocking from the mind. I don't know what the block is. There is a block. Don't become mental about it. That is the solution for everything. You don't become mental about it.

So whenever your instructions are guidances for being in presence, whether I want to clarify... so there is a being, okay? There is awareness, being, and presence of being, which you are saying is Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. And when you instruct me to be in presence or being, be with God, it's only up to the Son, isn't it? Because I don't see anything beyond that which is in my hand to do. So I can be with being. But even if you would say—if I was to say—be in God's presence, and I mean just the Atma itself, although we should never say 'just' the Atma itself, it's so... but just for the purpose of this conversation, try to be in the Atma and not be in the being, and not be aware of yourself as awareness.

There are no boundaries. Father is coming all together because you're not using attention, or maybe using attention only a little bit for that most primordial sensation. Then because the rest of it... sorry, so the rest of it is not with the tension then. It only works; it automatically becomes apparent, you see, when we are not caught up in our mind. So that's why I keep asking, you know, in pure perception, when you are open and empty, are you aware only of the perception of the world? This question is very important. When you are open and empty, you are not grasping in your mind, are you aware of the perception only of the world? Is there something besides the world that you know? The witnessing is also apparent. Can you see the witnessing? No, you don't have to withdraw, you see. So in pure perception, you don't have to withdraw from anything, you see. Naturally you'll find that maybe it just goes like that or something. But independent of that, try to be in pure perception and not be aware of the witnessing of the awareness. There should not be any witnessing; only the world should be there. All these reverse questions work better. Only the world succeeded, witnessing gone. Sakshi is not there. Only world, only jagat is there. There is no jiva, there is no Parama. Yes, succeeded? Can't help it. The truth is just too natural. Is the presence of being this pure perception? In pure perception, there should be no sense of existence, no sense of wakefulness, no sense of aliveness. That is... heeless. I'm catching you by words, but when you said again, sakshi is the one who is witness, the one who is aware, the same awareness itself. Awareness, it's a sakshi principle rather than a sakshi person.

The look is only changed after going to truth. Yeah, it's true. Put on some weight, this one court. Okay, so I was going to ask was that... so as awareness, I can see... can see the light of the light of being. Yes, like pure light. Yes. And I know that I'm the one that's a, you know, singular point of knowing all, meaning knowing awareness and then also—I mean, sorry—knowing the light and then also knowing objects in the light, like the objects of the body. And this light is nothing like this light, an inner light, just like beautiful, pure, pure energy. Just very pristine, like a pristine unchanging energy with a very soft vibration to it, like a soft, pure, pure, limitless energy. Is it? I don't call it energy, but something... it's good, it's good. I'm just making sure together so that... what kind of energy would you say it is? It's... it's like silence. It's like, you know, basically silence but not dead. Like dead is, let's say, when I'm in deep sleep, I don't know. Yes, I don't know at all. But here I know the silence and peace and, you know, harmony and like all this. It's very, you know, very joyful somehow, very deeply, deeply restful. And the same as what you use to confirm that you're awake. Yeah, same thing. First thing, first thing when I wake up, first thing comes, it comes only. So this one, Father, I know, and then I know from here I know this, and then I also know in it objects, like the body object in it, connectivity and all of that is coming from where? Like the containment...

I didn't even notice when we got disconnected. So okay, there are hands up, they're probably getting irritated with... okay, okay. So this... we'll take this last question from the room. So the containment of this universe within this being is not like a spatial containment. Like you can say that all of this is happening in space, you see, but the existence of time and space are just intuitively known to be in the space of being. But it's not like a spatial relationship. It's not like Russian dolls, you see. Russian dolls: the big doll is awareness, and then there's Consciousness, and then there's the world.

Okay, so we'll take this last question from the room. So, the containment of this universe within this being is not like a spatial containment. Like, you can say that all of this is happening in space, you see, but the existence of time and space are just intuitively known to be in the space of being. But it's not like a spatial relationship. It's not like Russian dolls, you see? Russian dolls: the big doll is awareness, and then there's Consciousness, and then there's the world. It's not like that, you see. And containment may not even be the right word in the sense that, just like there is no movie without the witness of the movie, so in that way we may say the witness is the substratum for the movie. Also, we may say there's no movie without the light of the projector, but the bulb doesn't have the movie inside it.

So, when we say all is happening within my being, it is a purely intuitive statement because that being in which all of this is happening is beyond all perception and therefore found only intuitively. So, the relationship between the awareness, witness, and the play of the Leela of the world—for the sake of words, we may say it contains it, it has it—but it's nothing that our mind can fathom in a relationship in that way. You just know intuitively, isn't it? Like, where is the world within my being?

And somebody said, 'Prove it, prove it.' One thing I can say is that I do feel from the same place is the sensation of the body, at least like some part of the body I feel in that space. I'm not in that space, in the presence.

Yes, so the presence is seen from awareness, and it is both. There's both pure presence, pure light, and then there's some shapes in it, like reflected light in the same. So, when your eyes are open, would you say that the perception of the world is happening in a different space than the sensations of the body?

Yes. I don't know. I mean, honestly, I don't explore this one.

No, so just explore this. Like, okay, so suppose if your eyes are closed and you're imagining a tree or imagining some pain in your nose, is that happening in the same space as the sensation of the body? Let's start with pain in the nose because that's very close. Now, when you imagine a tree, is it in a different space?

Same space. Same or same space. Feel is different, like the difference is the difference in the sensory perception, the sense which is being used. Or is there a spatial difference? Actually, because it's a non-space space, I need to find a better word.

Does it feel like it's happening? Okay, both things are happening within you. The imagination of the tree as well as the sensation of the body, both are happening within you. So, that 'within' is which space? Space of—at least we can confirm that it is like a space of perception that we have where our attention can traverse it and come to a conclusion. That much we can confirm. Now, when the eyes are open, where does the world show up? Is it in the same space or a different one?

So, tree, eyes closed, we say this is within ourselves. Most will say, 'Within myself, I'm imagining a tree.' World, eyes open, you see this is outside. But without labeling, is that difference apparent? The within, the aliveness within, the being within myself—we may say within my Consciousness, all these words we may use—but you see that there is no distinction between the so-called inner space and outer space. No distinction. It's just what is being perceived in front of us, let's say. In front of us, that changes, but the mind labels it as inside, mind labels it as outside. Where is all of this? Just like the whole dream happens within myself, and we can confirm that after waking up. In the same way, we realize when you are open and empty that this is nothing but another dream, a waking dream or a dream, all happening within myself.

Now, is there a container-like object container which contains all of this? No, you see. Just like we can say the dream happens within my Consciousness, the world may say it happens within my mind. The same way that this whole appearance is appearing. What is the difference between real and unreal? This imagination—this is not imagination. Dream is what, imagination or real? And all this, how to distinguish all these things? Your intuition will tell you more and more that actually it's only a convenient categorization between dream and wakefulness. Like, okay, let's go online.

Yes. Why is this important to differentiate between what you call—can you say that Atma is somewhere between? Still not able to... then when you say Atma, what would that be? You heard this term Atma?

Or when—okay, let's say even this popular term self-realization or God realization. What is it?

I'm still trying to figure out.

Exactly, exactly. So, why is it important to determine is because there are certain truths which are realized or recognized through a different mode of knowledge than the ones we usually use to live. So, there's a pair of glasses in my hand. What mode of knowledge are you using to confirm that? Perception, isn't it? And the labeling is coming from the mind. Now, there is some knowledge which we have which we use to override even what our senses are telling us, you see. So, for example, is the world, is the earth stationary or is it moving?

I mean, I have read that it's moving.

Correct. So, usually we give credence to that because seems like credible sources are telling us it's rotating and it's moving. But our perception is that it's absolutely still, you see. So, we may have a purely conceptual knowledge which means we say, 'Okay, although my perceptions are showing that it is absolutely still, I know for a fact that it is moving.' And we know that for a fact not because we perceived it, but because somebody we trusted told us, or we read somewhere, or there's a lot of—it's a popular notion. Now, besides perceptual knowledge and conceptual knowledge, is there another third form of knowledge?

That is what you said, intuition.

Yes. Now, if I was to say that the only way to know things which are truly valuable in the human condition is intuitively, it's something that you can play around with and explore whether this is true. But one thing is for certain: that to come to Atma Darshan, Atma Gyan, self-realization, God realization, none of that is possible through perceptual knowledge and conceptual knowledge. Because the Atma cannot be fathomed in this way. So, when we make the distinction between that which is Saguna and that which is Nirguna, it is to introduce us to this new form of insight that is intuitive. Nirguna, we can understand it as a term in our intellect, but we can't meet it. We can't imagine Nirguna. Even if you imagine a dark, empty place, it's still black, you see. So, that's a Guna that it has. Pure Nirguna can only be met through heart knowledge or intuitive insight.

What is the second question? When you said that the Atma is somewhere at the cusp of Nirguna and Saguna, right? How do you explain? I mean, I thought that it's a clear boundary. There's something you can perceive and there's something that you cannot perceive, right? So, whatever you can perceive is Saguna, whatever you can't perceive is Nirguna. So, where is this cusp? Where is this like gray matter? How do you define this?

Yes, yes, yes. So, if it was purely non-phenomenal, you see, then for most of humanity it would be out of bounds because we are so attached to name and form. Maya is what? Name and form. And if it became just another object, you see, then it would just be an object. So, we could take that object and say, 'Hey, this is God's presence, it's objective like this.' Now, when I ask you—because you have to do this experimentally—can you try and stop being right now? Because you have the answer intellectually, or what did you find?

It's not an intellectual answer. It's basically perception that—no, not—it's not a perception, it's an intuition.

It's an intuition. So, that beingness, if I ask you where is it felt, would you say nowhere? No, it has to be found somewhere. So, try and tell me, where is it? If I said, 'Where is the core of this being? Where are you finding it?'

I don't know, maybe in my breath.

So, this is where the cusp is. And because I have to use words, that's why I have to use words like cusp, because it's both here and not here. So, you can't truly say where is it, how is it felt. Some will say—in fact, most will say—it's in the heart region, you see, somewhere here. 'I can't stop being, that's the core of my being is here.' Others may say it's in my forehead, or like you're saying, breath, or some say it's like there's an aura around me, something is there. But is it there like—especially if you were to take a microscope or something, you will not find it. And yet we can say it's here, but it's not here. So, that's what I mean by the cusp, you see.

Now, if you were to use that and say, 'What is the source of this beingness, my hereness? Where does it come from?' Or you ask a question like, 'Who is aware?' or 'What is aware?' or 'What is witnessing even this beingness?' then that takes you to a purely intuitive insight. For that, you will never be able to say it feels like my breath or it feels like my heart. It just feels like a completely detached witnessing from the entirety of the universe. These are big, big questions which are the seeds for our inner contemplation and for our discovery. So, when we come to this, we recognize for ourselves what the sages have been talking about in the form of Atma, Saguna Brahman, Nirguna Brahman. Thank you.

When you say this being or God's presence is not limited to one aspect, like the conversation we had that day, you can't limit it only to love. He is much more than that, you know? Intelligence, aliveness, justice, everything. Like, if it was just an ever-loving God, no? Then many times I also say, 'Leave all justice to God. You don't hold on to this. God will take care. God will show everyone the way,' all of that. The most just, the most loving, the most intelligent. So, what I was trying to say is that, but still here, when I taste that love for God, the focus changes to God instantly, which doesn't happen with other aspects so easily for me, at least for me. Because even if it is not about—I'm thinking about my child in satsang, at least at that moment I become insignificant and she becomes—she or he becomes a center of my life, right? So, I don't see this happening with other aspects.

Yeah, so this is—so in that way, somewhere I have that some weightage given to this more. And when you say love is the best friend of being, something pokes you.

No, it's a continuation of that because I don't want to separate it from that beingness.

That's fine, that's fine also, because metaphors can't be like stretched or taken too literally, you see. So, you can look at it as like love is the aura of the being itself, if you like, or the hand, whatever you feel. But as long as you're not saying equals to. You say the love brings you to him, so the 'him' is not just the love itself. That's the important part.

I feel it's the easiest part, of course, to him. And the whole—like if somebody comes to my place for a conversation, I can see my 'I' coming up and, you know, trying to show something. So, inwardly, if I just remember him, at least at that moment the shift is instantly happening, which doesn't happen with other aspects of God that you're talking about.

Absolutely. And love in that way—that's why when I spoke about bhava samadhi, I said anchored in love. I didn't say anchored in intelligence. So, I'm not anti-love. I am very much deeply in love with God myself. And so is that my conditioning which is attracting the—like some will have a thing where they will feel like when they inquire, when they just sit and question 'Who am I?', then that brings them to the presence and the reality. But if they sit and try to love, then it doesn't seem that direct. For you, that may seem most direct, to just be in love or just remember love for God. It's all temperament.

I didn't say anchored in intelligence, so I'm not anti. I am very much deeply in love with God myself. And so is that my conditioning which is attracting the like? Some will have a thing where they will feel like when they inquire, when they just sit and question 'Who am I?', then that brings them to the presence and the reality. But if they sit and try to love, then it doesn't seem that direct. For you, that may seem most direct: to just be in love or just remember love for God. It's all temperamentally and conditionally different. Still, we can't put it over the other aspects. That's what you were saying that day, right? Yeah, in the sense that when I'm saying that, I'm just saying that it is He. I don't know, something I said which I found as a good pointer to this: He is worthy of love for who He is. You said He makes love 'love'; love doesn't make Him 'Him'. Yes, He makes love 'love'; love doesn't make Him 'Him' in the sense that the supremacy is for God, for the Lord. And the path, the most beautiful, pristine, quote-unquote way is to love Him deeply, but He is not just a bundle of love. That's what I'm trying to say.

Those who fall in love with Him, for them it may seem very easy. But in the same way, those who are truly inclined to deep contemplation, like the Gnanis—that's what the traditional boundary of Gnani and Bhakta is—but one will lead to the other always. So, the main point is that when I was sharing this with all of you, it was not that, 'Okay, don't love Him more and more.' Love Him more than you can, you see, with all your might and more. But don't make any sort of condition around yourself which says, 'No, no, my path is only this' or 'My way is only this,' because then He Himself will show you so much more depth. But if you confine yourself to say it's only that... love Him with all your mind, but never give it to your mind as a position. That's all I'm trying to say. Like, we don't even know. I may say now that loving Him works the best for me or inquiring works the best for me; one second later, by His grace, it may be the opposite. We don't really know, you see. So to give Him that, to know that it's all His will and His grace as to which way this servant can serve Him best, you see, is also His grace and His will.

Okay, let's go online. Let's go to Davi. Thank you. Can you hear me? Hello?

Yes, my dear. Yes, I can hear you, my dear. Can you hear me well? Yes, thank you. I don't know what to say. I just felt I need to speak to you more often then... hello? Yes, you want to speak to me more often and see, not speaking at all. I don't know what to say.

Take your time. Take your time. Don't worry. Don't.

Because I can say about struggling and things like this, but I see it's also from my mind sometimes.

All struggle is always from the mind. Yeah, try to struggle intuitively. Try to struggle from the heart. Can you do it? Like, without the mind, struggle, suffer? But it's not so easy to be in the heart. Yes, I seem to be caught so easily in the mind and then I don't find my way out. It's not so easy, and that's why so many satsangs throughout the week and throughout the years. Because, like I said in the beginning, it is at one level the most difficult thing and on another level it is the most simple thing. When we look at it in the course of our life, then we find that we can have times where we open and empty and then we keep falling into the mind, is it? But when we look at it just in this moment, it's actually the simplest thing. But to live a life, it becomes just like this moment-to-moment strangely seems difficult. In the moment it seems easy.

So what can we do? Every time we find ourselves getting caught, we must find a way to return. Whether that way is to inquire, to pray, to be grateful, to love—all of these, whichever, whatever works for us in that moment, we must find a way to return to our heart and not live in the head. What do you feel works for you quite effectively, or does that keep changing all the time?

To be honest, lately it's been really hard to find anything. Like, I'm trying and I have this tendency of becoming negative, like, 'Oh, it's not working,' or very desperate, like in a fearful way. I'm applying everything, so then... and also I'm expecting to feel better or to get rid of this anxious...

Are you doing the Atma Samadhi? It's not a policing; you can say yes or no, it's fine.

Trying everything, but I'm not really consistent with something, like to try one thing for example.

And just one thing that you could try and, for those who feel like the mind is really strong, this may work well, is the... if you picked a prayer for the Atma Samadhi, at the end there is these like almost like an arrow prayer or a mantra. So I say Ram, for example, at the end of my prayer. So then you could take that throughout the day. So if you say Ram, you could say Ram. If you say Jesus, you can say Jesus, or Krishna, or Allah, whatever you've picked, and then that can become your anchor. See, because that anchor then can keep us away from the usual tricks of the mind. It gives us so many messages, so that could be a good way to short-circuit the egoic identity. When the mind is telling you a story, if it comes to your recognition that you're being caught up in your mind, then you can quickly return to your chant or your prayer. If to return to love or your heart doesn't seem so easy, then you can use the name of God to do that. Have you managed to pick a prayer for yourself in the Atma Samadhi or not yet?

I'm using the Jesus prayer because of my upbringing and sometimes I really... like lately I really did this like all day almost, like repeating the name, or sometimes the Holy Mother also, it's close to my heart.

And how was that day? How was that day when you used it?

It was still difficult, but at least I was holding on to something.

Yes, yes, yes. Try for a few days. It is a very ancient technique. It's a very ancient method, as you know, in all traditions, to keep us away from the tricks of the mind and the traps of the mind. So initially, the thing with this method is that it's not easy to start with. It will seem like a struggle to replace the mental chatter with the prayer or the mantra. But once it becomes... so you may have to even do it vocally for a few days, see? So if you're doing the Jesus prayer, you may say, 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.' Then of course I added something to that saying, 'Bless my heart with the light of spirit.' And then if you say Jesus, you can say, 'Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.' So before it becomes like an internal japa, the internal prayer, the constant unceasing prayer as it is suggested in the Bible, before it becomes fully inward, maybe for a few days we have to do it outwardly. And if it's still difficult, use a Mala, you see? A Mala is, or a Rosary... Rosary is very helpful to use. But I promise you, if you invest in this for a few days, then it'll start to become a very solid anchor for you. And if you start your day with this Atma Samadhi, I feel like it'll be easier to spend the day in the presence of God. So try it out with full heart and don't get frustrated too easily. Give it a few days and weeks; you'll see that it'll get deeper and better as you go along.

Thank you. And then you'll find that just with this grounding, you know, with this kind of grounding, you will find that the rest of what I'm saying, both in terms of insight and in terms of Bhakti, in terms of devotion—both aspects seem a lot easier when we are grounded in that way. Otherwise, when the mind is full of stuff and we are not finding ourselves empty, then either aspect seems too difficult. I can understand that, yeah. And for those who are not attracted to the prayer in this way, then you can use the inquiry. You can really sincerely ask yourself, 'Who am I?' It's a very important question to ask, 'Who am I?', sincerely and with the innocence of a child we must ask. And when a thought comes as an answer, we can ask, 'Who is witnessing this thought?' and we can keep asking that. Or if an answer comes conclusively, 'I am witnessing this thought,' then we can ask ourselves again, 'Who is this I?'

So what happens with this is that because thoughts are not being believed and more and more they're being used in the inquiry, the mind itself will not want to give you more fuel for the inquiry, so it will become more silent, and thus opening the way for your intuitive insight into your true nature as to who you are. You see, this is one question that makes the mind helpless, because if you say, 'What is a mango?', the mind produces an image of a mango. 'Okay, what is the capital of India?', 'New Delhi.' You're just like an answer machine. So you say, 'Who am I?', it may try with something that you learned, but if you keep asking, 'What is witnessing that?', it has no means to answer that because it's beyond its pay grade. It's beyond its job level; it's beyond its job description. So it can't go there. So that, in a way, makes the mind helpless and makes it quieter after a few days of practice. And in the quietude of the mind, there are intuitive insights; the way of the heart, it flowers.

So whether we use the prayer or we use the inquiry, we use the invitation—there's so many beautiful methods which are available to us. Every question of the invitation can only be answered intuitively, you see? Have you looked at that? It can only be answered intuitively. So in that way, again, it makes the mind helpless and without moves and brings us to intuitive insight about who we are. So if you do either the Atma Samadhi, inquiry, invitation, prayer, chanting, devotional singing, devotional hearing—all of these will bring you to the same point. But if you are able to just follow one instruction, which is: do any of this or whatever, but don't leave your bed till you come to God's presence, then you see your life will change. How do you find... how many of you feel like you're following that instruction? Don't leave your bed till you come to God's presence. Following? Thank you. Online on Zoom, hands anyone? You? Okay, thank you.

So just try the simple instruction, you see? And if you carry that intention lightly in your heart, you will find that the means God will make available to you. If you yearn to be in His presence, then He will define the path beautifully. So just make this resolve for me: you will not leave your bed till you come to God. A part said very sweetly the other day that, 'I have to brush my teeth, otherwise I can't start my day.' So I said, 'Okay, brush your teeth and then come back to your bed, then find the presence of God and then leave with this.' So we have to... if we have to go to work, how do we do? So yeah, you have to get up maybe a few minutes earlier to find that space—15, 20 minutes, half an hour—some space in the morning where you don't get in the... because what happens with the mind is early in the morning it blasts you with all the egoic messaging, you see? As soon as you get up, they tell you, 'This has to be done, this has to be done, this is there, this one doesn't like me, I have to deal with this,' you see, all of this stuff.

So you have to... if you live the rest of your day in that momentum of the mind, then obviously it is... you're not going to have a divine day because of the egoic energy, egoic pressure. And those who you meet also will meet you in the form of that ego, so it is not either in service to you or to your brothers and sisters in the world. So if you have to go to work at seven, then you have to make sure you get up with enough time, depending on how much time you take to get ready. So if you do the Atma Samadhi, and the Atma Samadhi at least 15, 20 minutes we can easily do, and that... deeper we carry the intention to live in God's presence, the ways and how it needs to happen He will keep guiding us. But keep yourself in that, in that spirit that, 'I have to start the day with God instead of with the ego,' you see? Because if you don't start living like that, then it's all just lip service. Then it's all just lip service and we're just talking about this.

On how much time you take to get ready, so if you do the ads and the ads, at least 15-20 minutes we can easily do. And that deeper we carry the intention to live in God's presence, the ways and how it needs to happen, He will keep guiding us. But keep yourself in that spirit that I have to start the day with God instead of with the ego, you see? Because if you don't start living like that, then it's all just lip service. Then it's all just lip service and we are just talking about this, hearing these things in satsang, but it has to translate into our lives being transformed from the way of the head to the way of the heart. And for most of you, it is happening. But for it to get deeper and deeper that way, just cut off the mind right at the start of your day. That will be good. Not that it won't show itself during the day—it will—but just return to that. When you started like this, the rest of the day you will remember it more and more. Very good. You're doing well. From when we first started talking to each other, now there's a huge transformation already. Thank you, thank you. Okay, let's go to Aniko, the Laughing Buddha.

Thank you. I am not laughing at the moment. Not laughing at the beginning; at the end, usually. I don't know how to ask this as a question now, and it's a bit difficult to ask, but it has been in me for a while now. Can you hear me properly? You know, the last time when we were talking and you asked me who knows better than me, and then I said, 'Who knows better than me what is the best for me?' And then you said, and I of course said it is you, Ananta Ji, and Guruji. And this is the truth from my heart. But Ananta Ji, there is a kind of a different path, actually a different focus on what is seemingly different, but I don't know. Sometimes I'm just so confused because that one helped me a lot as well, but sometimes it seems so much the opposite. And there is sometime when I don't know what to follow.

Are you just going to keep it secret or are you going to share?

No, no, no. It is kind of focus on the traumas and the suppressed energies and, you know, because this is on the body, on the cells' memory, on the DNA. And this is a kind of way where we embrace and acknowledge this kind of... because they pull us back to the identification all the time. And this is a way what's really helped me because this kind of dissolves these energies. And after, I mean, the end of it is just the same, this open emptiness. But you know, Guruji, he always says don't serve the mind with the tea, but this way is kind of serving this. So this is kind of different. They call this embodied awareness, how to embody. I know you already talked about this. And this is more like somebody doing something and not just letting everything go and being in this open. So Ananta Ji, I just would like to ask what is your opinion on this? Because this is the two. Yeah, that's it. Thank you.

That which is the most effective way that you found to make yourself open and empty or to bring yourself to God's presence, that is the best for you. So if you can with integrity say that when I do this particular thing—and I don't know how it works or any of that—but when I do this particular thing, I spend a few minutes and then I find that I'm in God's presence and I love Him and I'm in service to Him. So insight, love, and servitude become central to my life, and it's not in service to the individual egotistical tendencies in me, then that is perfect for you. And there's obviously... this one, Ananta, will not know every single method that exists out there. In every culture, there are beautiful ways to come to God, and every day maybe newer ways are being discovered also. So I'm not making a judgment on any of that, but I'm just asking you to make sure that in whatever you're doing, make sure that it's in service to God and not in service to the ego.

Yes, I'm here. As you are speaking honestly, this is kind of purification from the pain, and I'm not sure if it's for God or... yeah, but maybe it helps me to get closer to God. I don't know. I don't know if it's for God, I don't know.

Okay, even if it is for you, if it helps you remain in His presence more at the end of the day, fine. Then it's fine, it's good. Because whatever leads us to God is spirituality. Anything that leads us to a glorified me, a better me, me, me, me—that is not spirituality. It is self-help. And there's nothing wrong with self-help, but we should call spirituality spirituality and self-help self-help.

I find it makes me more easy and more empty in a way, Ananta Ji. And yeah, sorry, I mean for me you are the absolute truth and the absolute... but I am not still at that level. I have so many vasanas and so much traumas and everything in here, and I just feel I need this. It is like a kind of, not a therapy, but this is a kind of purification. And I love you so much and I just want to say that.

Yes, my child. Yes, thank you. Thank you for that. I'm just saying that whatever is good that flows from here is just because God's presence decides to use this one as an instrument. And in this one, there is so much foolishness and stupidity and silliness that there is nothing that makes Ananta deserving of being called some absolute teacher or something like that. There is a long, long way to go, and I'm very much a beginner on this path to serving God. So having said that, I feel that what has come from here can genuinely bring us to a true heartfelt life, and all the instructions are available for us to follow. But that does not mean that if you find something which really helps you to become empty, to become peaceful, to enjoy God's presence, then please feel free to do that. I don't feel like I've ever stopped anyone from doing anything that brings them closer to God, brings them to a more peaceful state of mind. Except when some of my children have shared that they're doing something like this or like that which seems like it really has nothing to do with God and it's not really helping them become peaceful also—it's just some something which I don't know what it is for—then I may have said, 'No, no, just focus on this.' But from what you are saying, what you're saying is that you do a few minutes of something—I don't know what that something really means, some embodied awareness technique—you do that for a few minutes and then you find yourself less in pain, not suffering as much, more peaceful, you see? So from the byproducts, I feel like there's nothing wrong with it. It seems like it's fine.

Yes, fine. Thank you. Thank you so much, Ananta Ji. Yeah, yes, Ananta Ji, there is another thing what I cannot say now because I don't want this going to YouTube. And one question is coming, which is that embodied awareness seems very Zen-like, the goose escaping the... oh, I mean, what does the term mean?

No, it is just kind of... so the first part of this is a kind of same... I mean, this is just around the neti-neti. The first part is kind of neti-neti part, like what is this Advaitic part. And then after, we are going back from to the body straight. We are not staying in this emptiness, but going back to the body. And from there, there is a kind of loving presence what you also talk about, but there is a more focusing way to focus on this kind of... they call inner traumas or stuff like this. We are focusing on this kind of inner contractions and then they are just dissolving, and after is just a beautiful loving presence there. And it is just my mind sometimes tells me that it is opposite with what Ananta Ji and Guruji say and I shouldn't go this way. And sometimes I get confused, where shall I go, which way at the moment, what is what I should follow or practice? And this is why I ask.

So I cannot, of course, speak for Guruji; I'm just a mere disciple. But my approach has always been to look at the byproducts of something, and if the fruits are good, then the tree must be fine. So if the fruits are that you're finding a loving presence—and every presence is God's presence, it's only God's presence which is here—if you're finding that as a result of whatever you're doing, then I have no trouble with it. I'm absolutely fine. Thank you so much. Thank you.

There are questions in the chat also. 'Father, what is your view on taking care of the body-mind, its energies, and to make them pure? In my case, if they are pure, then all is clear, no trouble. But to hear you, like none of it is a trouble, they can be as impure as they...' I said like that? 'They can be as impure as much as they can be.' No, I'm not... like I've made everyone here quit smoking, drinking. That's not because of a moralistic stance, but it's very important to keep the body, the mind, all of our various aspects of our being as much sacred for the temple of God, for the presence of God's life to be palpable, for it to remain palpable. So I don't feel like I would have ever said they can be as impure as much as they can be. 'And then that makes me confused, pressured, and resistant to you.' No, please, I have not said like that. Maybe in the context of your reality as awareness itself is untouched by the play of all of this, you see? But the servant aspect of us, the servitude aspect of us—the servant can only be a good servant if he keeps himself there in a space sacred for God. I said that very clearly. I've also posted this message on the group because I felt that so strongly so recently. 'Because of the work, I am a mess on those levels and all my troubles come out of that. Okay, please say something about them.' The saying of Papaji or Bhagavan, 'If you are happy, all is happy,' really fits in my experience. 'I asked before, now again I will ask. May I ask for your blessings for a source of income/work which can completely support my satsang and my happiness for all?' That's full, full blessings are with you. That whatever is supportive for you living a life in God's light, may God make that happen for you in the way that He feels is best, is the highest. Full blessings. Mother, please refresh your system. That was quite some time back, hopefully it's fine now. This we answered. Okay, very good. 'Once I am saying God, God, God has become my anchor, Father.' Very good, very good. I had this habit—I don't know where it got picked up from—but even before meeting Guruji, for a long time I've had this: wherever the mind seems a bit strong and tries to bully, then I just look within and say 'God,' you see? It's like an arrow prayer, and that itself has helped me throughout the years. Then next one says, 'There's no particular location where we can be found. Body itself is an appearance in this vast field of divine Consciousness, awareness. Yes, only when "I" comes and seemingly contracts the ever-present intuitive knowing, we find ourselves frustrated.' 'I' comes only as a result of identification with the mind; that is the avidya. Very good. 'Then better for me to sit than to lie down.' Okay, very good. For years also, I go to sleep in that way, which is to be in God's presence. Very good, very good. So to sleep and then waking up also, very good. Thank you, very good. Thank you, thank you, thank you, my dear. Then, 'For those who have access to Sahaja Express, the daily contemplation which takes 30 minutes is a very good start for the day.' Very good, very good, very good. Let's go to Be.

Namaste, Father. Can you hear me?

Namaste, yes, yes.

I wanted to ask... love. I feel that I love God very much, but maybe I don't... I don't know, there is not so much, or I can love... you feel you love God very much, but you don't know whether...

And so to sleep and then waking up also, very good. Thank you. Very good. Thank you, thank you, thank you, my dear. Then for those who have access to Saha Express, the daily contemplation which takes 30 minutes is a very good start for the day. Very good, very good, very good. Okay, let's go to Bee.

Namaste, Father. Can you hear me?

Yes, yes.

I wanted to ask, I feel that I love God very much, but maybe I don't know—there is not so much, or I can love more.

You feel you love God very much, but you don't know whether it's much? I mean, you don't know if you can love God more or if you have a blind spot or something? We can always love God more. And so, how can I see when I'm not loving God? Or right now, right now, love Him more. Can love Him more now, right? All of us can. I can love Him more now. This desire, huh? Don't think love; you're thinking what to do with it. So, no, no. Thinking is not loving God more. No, that's also thinking. You don't have to think about whether thinking is loving God. Just love God. Remember Him. The aspect of Him which you love. If there's a holy name that you love, remember that name. If there's an image of Him that you love, remember that image. If there's a song to Him that you love, sing that song. If there's something that you hear that makes you remember God so much, hear it. Whatever, whatever it takes.

Yes, I think maybe the thing is when I see people, maybe I do like a comparison or I say, 'I think this is not God.' Like I'm doing separation.

You can't think and love God at the same time. The point is not to think. To invoke is just to remember and then to leave all thoughts behind. So you say, 'Ram.' Don't judge, don't check, don't have benchmarks. Because even if, suppose, love doesn't come, you spent your time in a worthwhile way remembering the name of God. Yes, it's all win-win. There's no loss. If you say 'Ram' 10,000 times and you don't find any love, at least you said 'Ram' 10,000 times, or whatever resonates with you.

I feel, Father, that God loves me so much, and this is my love.

He loves you. He loves you. So that feeling is you loving God; it is God loving you. It is the same. You feel it, that He loves you. Yes, that feeling is your love for Him as well. Okay, very good, very good.

And also I wanted to say thank you because you say this about if you do something that makes you feel more peace or more calm or something, this is good for you. Because I was thinking that this is like feeding my ego, you know?

As long as you're thinking that, just make sure that what I've said is not an excuse to do any bad habits and things. Actually, we are just lost in some hallucination or some imagination and things like that. So just make sure that it is the true, open, and empty living in the pure presence of God that I'm talking about. Because sometimes the mind also loves an instruction like this which will say, 'Oh, but this makes me very happy, makes me very open,' you see? But with integrity, you can check for yourself if it truly brings you to God's presence or if just some imagination gets activated, then some mind stuff gets activated. So just use that check. Yes, thank you. Presence. Very good, very good. All right. And don't be worried; you look worried after the answer. Thank you. Let's go to some... thank you, thank you. Okay, last one.

Namaste, Father.

Namaste, my dear. Namaste.

Am I audible?

Yes, you are. Yes.

Father, there is no 'she' here in the room, please. Even when if I'm not like able to see here, if I'm not perceiving anything, but still I know that I'm awake.

Yes, yes, yes. Like how I know that?

Yeah.

That not knowing how is the true source of knowledge which we have to rely on for everything. Is it? That is the switch over from head to heart. See, when I first heard that—I was just starting in spirituality—where my Guru at that time told me that all of spirituality is basically moving from head to heart. So I felt like it is moving from the mind and all of these things to just my emotions and just to follow my heart emotionally; just whatever is coming, do that. But really it is not that heart. This heart is the source of all knowledge, the source of all intelligence, where we find even that which we cannot perceive. Imagine how strange that is. We come to the absolute discovery of that which we cannot perceive or even think about. So that is the nature of the Self. It is beyond perception; it is beyond thinking. So we learn to rest in that and live in that, so that our life is guided from there. Every step of our life is guided from there. And also we are recognizing our reality as pure awareness itself. I lost you and I kept blabbering. I was just going to talk, I don't know what. So I was saying that that which is awake, that one, who is that? Is that I? Father, I wakes up, I woke up. So and that which is witnessing that waking, that which is aware of that, is that I? Father, you see? So even that is I. So this I which is aware is aware of its own being, which is the sense of being 'I am.' And we don't know whether—how do we know this? Because it seems alien, these kind of recognitions without perception, without understanding. But we have to learn to live in this new territory which initially will seem alien, but you recognize more and more that this is your true home and we have been living in the wrong place, actually. So it's very important that we move away from the way of the mind to the Satguru presence within ourselves. So if you were alone in a room and suddenly I called you and I said, 'Ask me whatever question you want,' what would that question be? You didn't have to worry about who's watching, who's listening. What is the most important question that you feel you need to answer in your heart? Father, question? What is it that you want? Suppose if there's nobody judging, nobody listening, nobody... if I said to you that let's pray together to God and let's pray to Him for one thing for you, what would that thing be?

Father, to like have the courage...

Yes, say. Don't worry.

Father, to have the courage to live in the true way.

To have the courage to live in the true way. So what are you scared of? What will happen if you drop the mind and live in the way of the heart? What are you more scared of? So there's a fear, and you can see it comes on the mind which says, 'I'll become immobile,' which means what? Unproductive or just bedridden. Bedridden, unproductive, everything. I'll just be in my room. And anyone that you know of, any of the sages, anyone who came to the truths and found a way to live in their heart, who became like that? All the ones that we have—many you've been to the center, we have so many Masters' photos on the walls—anybody became vegetative or unproductive? Right? So why do you feel like you'll be the first one in the world to recognize the Self and become a vegetable? And you say you'll be the first one to say, 'Oh no.' So can you see how unfounded that fear is from the mind? You'll be the first one in all of history, when all the sages of this beautiful tradition have done such great work and written such great words and bhajans and all of that, but you somehow, this child will be the first one who will come to God's light, God's presence, the truth, and she'll just become a vegetable on the bed. So be empty of that fear. Nothing like that will happen. And I'm telling you one thing: that if that happened—so suppose you had the most productive life and you became a great psychotherapist and you had thousands and thousands of patients and all of that, most productive, awards, money, fame, everything, but you didn't come to God, versus you came to God and you never left your bed—it is still the second one that is still better. Not that it is going to happen, but even if that was a choice I had to make, I would definitely make that choice for God. Because how does it matter in this dream what happens? This dream is going to get over. The only reality is God. So in the dream I just become nobody and nothing, how does it matter? This dream will last a little while; it's nothing at all. Very, very good. Very good. So very good. You must use that experience to see the difference. Even a moment of living in the mind seems so oppressive after some point that you must use that to live in the way of the truth more and more. And one tip for you is that always when you ask me, just feel like you're just talking to me and ask me that which is truly bothering you in the heart, or it's a true question in your heart. Then if you start to meet like that with integrity, then you see that that transformation will deepen more and more. You never have to convince me or impress me about anything at all. I am pre-impressed by everybody, okay? I know that you are God's light. I know that I'm already impressed. My job is to convince you about how great you are, you see? But you keep saying, 'No, no, I'm just a person, I will become a vegetable.' I'm saying you're God's light, you are God itself, you see? You are saying, 'But this will happen to me.' So remember that I am the one that is more impressed with you than you are, you see? So you never have to feel that 'I have to ask Father the right question,' all that. You don't. Thank you.

What is the second one you said? If I don't show up, it's like my parents will be disappointed. Like everybody who is close to me will be disappointed and I'll not be there for anybody and I'll go all reckless and crazy.

Yeah, I understand. These are also very natural fears that we have on this path. But what is happening is that through some grace, you are coming to a greater light than even though elder ones around you may have come to or they may recognize at this point. Now that situation is always a bit tougher for them to deal with because they will say, 'Oh, this child doesn't know what she's doing, she's wasting her life,' you see? All of these things. But you are realizing, hopefully more and more you'll realize, that a wasted life is that one which is lived for the non-existent 'me' instead of living an authentic life for God, who is the only reality. Then that life lived for the 'me' is the wasted one. Now you may recognize this at your age, and sometimes the older ones may not recognize it. That day my family had gone out for a wedding, but my mom was in the house. So I went back home from satsang at 9:30, so I got a grilling also saying, 'Oh, why have you come so late? You should do it for two, three hours, be in a bit of balance,' you see? So I have got also all of that. So parents will always have those kind of conditions. But because of that, we cannot curb our realities to such an extent. So because parents are opposing this—suppose they were opposing this—would you stop living in God? Because parents were saying, 'No, no, make something out of your life.' Is their idea of making something a true something?

No, Father. And they are opposing not like too much, but still somewhere I keep getting drawn to satsang and I'm not being able to follow what they are saying.

Yes, trust these words: that the longing for God, the yearning for God, it's a beautiful grace that you've had in your life where so many others, our friends and colleagues, don't have this call, don't have this yearning. But this is a great gift that has been given to you by God's grace Himself. So never take anybody's opinion over that yearning of the heart. I know in Indian society all of these things are very difficult. I have some children who even at much older ages still follow everything that their parents are saying. But at least make an exception that when it comes to God, for that you will follow your heart fully. For everything to do with the world, you can follow your parental advice, but you must not give up the search, the finding of God, because our parents are scared about our future or something like that. There is no future without God. And that doesn't mean you fight with them or tell them, 'No, I only want God.' You don't have to.

Older ages still follow everything that their parents are saying, but at least make an exception that when it comes to God, for that you will follow your heart fully. For everything to do with the world, you can follow your parental advice, but you must not give up the search, the finding of God, because our parents are scared about our future or something like that. There is no future without God. And that doesn't mean you fight with them or tell them, 'No, I only want God.' You don't have to become rebellious in that way unless it is coming from your heart that that is the medicine that is needed.

Like with my mom also, and even when my dad was there, I hardly ever fought with them about this. It just came to say, 'Ha, okay, okay,' something like that, but I kept deepening in my heart, you see. As all that is happening, they can't go inside you and change you, no. They can only tell you from outside. It's okay; they are older, they are worthy of our respect and not disrespect, so we must respect them. But when it comes to God, we must follow our heart fully. In the rest of life, it may be okay to follow them. So within yourself, you have to be strong, strong and available only for God, you see.

Thank you, Father. Thank you very much.

I'm just reading through all the messages there. Where is Kisha? She is like one of the constant ones, but I don't see her today. Anyone been in touch with her last few days? I haven't heard anything.

I'm here. Okay, good, good, good. Very much thank you, Father, for today. These songs have been so powerful. Thank you.

Right, thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Sri Mooji Baba ki Jai. God bless you all. Bless you.