God Never Makes a Mistake With Anything That Is Cooked for Us - 4th June 2021

So we can look at that specifically in a moment. I just want to clarify for everyone once again, because this can be a very confusing thing for many. So let's go through this and then we will talk about this recalling beautiful moments part as well. So that which is worthy of our belief should be that which is true, you see. Now the truth should be a valid representative of what is, isn't it? If it is not representing what is in a valid fashion, then it is not worthy of our belief, you see.

So now a thought, no matter which thought you look at, you will see that it cannot represent what is. And I like to say it does not even represent the manifest aspect of what is. It can never do it. And you've heard me say this before, that if I was to say just represent even your perceptual experience right now and I give you 100 thoughts, you will not be able to completely represent it, you see. Somebody should be able to read those 100 thoughts and be able to recreate your experience entirely, but they can't do that, you see. And actually even if they had a million, they could not do it because you'll miss some shade of light, some shadow, some sound, some bird chirping, some traffic noise, you see. Something will get missed in that representation.

But what is the manifest aspect of what is is already available to us in our pure perception. Yes, you see, this is a very subtle point. So that knowing which is available in perception itself is enough. The further representation which comes as an add-on from a thought is only trying to storify what is available in perception, you see, because without that you cannot insert it in a story.

And by perception do you also mean images that come, like the example I just gave? Because in that example and in others it doesn't seem like belief is such a big deal, like there's nothing to do with belief or not belief. Yes, I mean it's not really involved there, it doesn't seem to be.

Exactly. So even that which we call memory, actually we cannot even truly say it is past or future. It just shows up, you see, as perception. And it is the interpretation from the mind which says, 'Okay, this happened yesterday, that was so beautiful.' But without that also, that which shows up can be enjoyed, you see. So pure perception is the purest experiencing, and like God experiencing God is already available. The limited representation cannot happen in that. It is only that consciousness itself is using its own ability to make this linear narrative of an individual as part of the Leela, you see.

And now as part of the Leela, it is playing this game of these conversations to step back from that limited representation and narrative and come to this pure perception, pure being, you see. So no thought can truly represent what is. So why would you bother if it is not true anyway? Secondly, you may have said for example that but some thoughts are just representing phenomena, like I take the example of the coconut being green, isn't it? So you say, 'Okay, what is wrong with that? It is just saying that coconut is green.' You see, I know on the face of it it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with believing that.

But what you'll notice with the mind is that soon after the first proposal, the add-on proposals come which say, 'Oh, green are not so ripe. The water is very sweet. I like, you know, a bit orangish coconut.' So the 'I' comes in fairly quickly. And once we are in the habit of buying the initial proposal, it seems like the follow-up ones seem easier to believe, you see. But the thing is that whatever the thought was proposing was already apparent in our perception anyway, so we don't need that additional information. It is already here, you see.

Like you can perceive the colors of the shirt, you see. Now to say it is white and then it has brown is for what purpose? You see, it is just for the purpose of conceptual understanding. And we can use that conceptual understanding only so that we can insert it into some story. What other use does it have? It doesn't aid perception in any way.

Yes, that's clear. That's clear, I suppose. So images coming in the mind or just seeing something that is not in the apparent outside world, seeing something that is here, doesn't really mean thinking necessarily. And it's okay even if we enjoy that, like the example I gave that happens.

Yes, it's absolutely fine. Whether the perception is external seeming—yes, external seeming, and I'm using the word 'seeming' carefully because actually the distinction between external and internal is also conceptual—but whether it is what we're used to calling external or it is thought, memory, imagination, pain, pleasure, emotion, all of these perceptions can continue to be perceived, you see. And actually the secret is that consciousness by itself in pure perception is enjoying every experience, even that which we call pain. Even pain. So of course it is there to enjoy. That is why it is said that the entire Leela is the play of consciousness. And what kind of play would it be if there was no enjoyment of that?

So yes, everything, everything that arises can be perceived, and whatever needs to be known about that, you see, is already known in the perceiving of it. Yes, we don't need to augment it with additional conceptual information. Yes, the only thing you will lose is the ability to storify or to make a narrative out of it to suffer.

Yeah, yes. Thank you, Father. Greg, I'm very happy to hear about your experiments and contemplation.

Yes, it was very beautiful because it really resonated and I'm very thankful for the sister who asked that question because I had to check after that. I had to check. Yes, and it's true. Thank you. Sometimes I like to say that it's only after I met Guruji that I saw a flower for the first time, you see. Otherwise we are so caught up in 'What is this? What's in it for me? How can I use this? Can I always remember this or no?' You see, all this kind of 'what's in it for me' stuff that we miss the beautiful imagery, the beautiful creation of consciousness itself moment to moment directing this play with such beauty and magnificence.

Because consciousness itself is playing the game in such a way at the moment where most of its attention is dissipated because it is going to the mind and the mind's idea of getting and keeping, you see, that it is missing out on the beauty which is apparent in every moment of life. Yes, right now in your room there's a ray of light, you know, at least a ray of light. How beautiful is that? There's light, you see. How beautiful is that? Yes, to perceive that itself, see, and not to say light or a shadow is not beautiful. Like a shadow is as beautiful, you see. Without the intellect making these judgments, everything that is perceived is full of this play.

But we are missing this movie, you see. And that's why we feel that we have to go to some special place. And what happens when you go to a holiday or some special place? Only for a moment we may be looking at a river or the ocean or a mountain and we may forget to think in that moment, you see, and we feel like, 'Wow, so beautiful.' But then after a couple of minutes it starts to become regular again and we're back to our view of, 'Oh, we should do this every year. Why don't we take a holiday more often?' You see, this kind of the story making comes back.

Yes, yes. It seems that it's not necessary. It keeps coming back, the habit to think, but it's completely unnecessary.

Yeah, it's only used for as long as consciousness wants to play that way, to convince consciousness itself, the most magnificent being, that it can play as a limited entity, as a body-mind object.

Okay. Something wants to, yeah, it feels completely content with this answer, but something wants to ask something more now. And I don't know if it's necessary, maybe it is. Is there such—

Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it because in the same way, I see a lot of us policing ourselves. Not that you are doing it, but many times we can end up policing ourselves too much and saying, 'Okay, this is, I'm just being mental now. He just told me not to believe.'

Yeah, yeah. I just thought it was such a beautiful moment, I didn't want to ruin it. But I'll ask.

What I wanted to say about that is that just like every other perception, the movement of this mouth and the words that arise from it also is another appearance in this play of perception. And it is completely independent of thinking. Sometimes it happens that there is a thought and then the mouth moves in the same way. Sometimes it happens that there's a thought and the mouth moves in a different way. Sometimes there's no thought and the mouth still moves, you see. Like this conversation, at least from here, is happening without any conceptual interference in the middle. I hear this mouth moving, you see. In the same way your mouth will move whether you believe it or not. You don't have to believe it. Perfect.

Okay. Yes. So it was about, I don't know if it's related—

There is a thought and then the mouth moves. In the same way, sometimes it happens that there's a thought and the mouth moves in a different way. Sometimes there's no thought and the mouth still moves. You see, like this conversation, at least from here, is happening without any conceptual interference in the middle. I hear this mouth moving, you see? In the same way, your mouth will move whether you believe it or not. You don't have to believe it. Perfect. Okay, yes.

Um, so it was about—I don't know if it's related—about like logical thinking. Like, I don't know, doing math for instance.

Yeah, that's not what we call thinking, is it? Here in satsang, there's a few very nice contemplations about logic as well, no? So what happened in the Western systems of logic is that because of Socrates and his disciples, and maybe even before that, Sophists and people like that, what happened is that logic became very linear. So in that definition of logic, something is either true or untrue, you see? It cannot be both. But in Eastern civilizations like India, like very popularly in the Buddhist especially, many times they would say it's both true and untrue, you see, or neither true nor false, you see.

Now, because all of us are conditioned in our education, or most of us must be conditioned in our education and the construct in which we live, to find this kind of thing absurd, it can seem very strange. How can something be both true and false? How can something be neither true nor false? It sounds out of the bounds of logic. But there were systems of logic where all four variables were present, you see. So then masters could answer saying 'both,' you see, both or neither. And then what would happen is if Buddha, for example, was presented with the question sometimes saying, 'What happens to the body of one who is already enlightened?' you see, and he would say the fifth, the fifth, the fifth is neither true nor untrue, neither both true and untrue, and neither nor neither of those, neither both, yes.

And there intellect cannot visit, you see, because for the intellect what I'm saying right now is completely crazy business, no? It's completely absurd, you see. But there is a deeper knowledge inside you for which this is not so strange. You see, it recognizes that the instrument called the intellect cannot capture everything in itself. And the funny thing is that anything really of value it cannot capture. So love, peace, joy, truth, Self, devotion—all of these, trust—all this cannot really understand. It tries to make everything rule-based: 'Oh, you must love me because I love you.' This is these kind of systems which seem very logical, but they don't get us anywhere in life, you see. We just become like little businessmen chasing experiences and wanting reciprocation and these kind of things in the traditional systems of logic.

So as you let go of the limited instrument, you realize that there's a greater knowledge which is running this entire universe, you see. And I'm just coming to numbers in a moment, you see. So, which is running this entire universe with such great intelligence which our mind cannot fathom, you see. It can just try and decipher, 'Okay, this happens after this,' you see. A seed is planted, then it starts to sprout, and this is what happens. It can just make linear interpretations of what happens and some very, very broad level generalizations. But the intelligence which is, for example, keeping this body together apparently and making it sit on a couch—even that much the highest physicists don't know at this point, you see. So that, why everything doesn't just fall apart, you see, we are not able to see.

But there's a deeper intelligence which is making all this—gravitation, electricity, magnetism, evolution, growth, you see, all of this happen. Even identity and the play of identity is dependent on that intelligence. But we cannot fathom any of this. We can just make some hypothesis and say, 'Okay, concluded after verification of perception.' But when it comes to something which is not observable, it is at a loss. So when our scriptures—sorry, I'm going on, maybe you don't have to do the whole transcript—but when our scriptures, for example, say that find that which is not perceivable, you see, for the scientific experimental kind of logic that seems absurd because all of it is based on confirmation by observation, you see. So there's a mathematical hypothesis which then is confirmed with experiments, and that is impossible. So you cannot confirm your true Self or your true nature as awareness in that kind of traditional way.

May I venture something? Yeah. We, for instance, we work in different disciplines and we do, I know, like language or math or science. And we know in satsang we learn that none of them can actually hold the truth, and we recognize that more and more. However, there are like schemes or systems within which they work that we use to say, resolve—I'm using math, I don't work there, but it's an easy example—just to resolve an equation or something. We know that it doesn't necessarily have to do with truth, but we do use that. And when we do use that to apply to the solution of a problem or something, that process is not—it's not thinking if we don't give that our belief? It's just that's what is? That it's not thinking? What is it?

As long as you're not making a story, it's not thinking. You don't have to worry. If you're like, 'What is 2 plus 15? 17,' you see, it is fine. It's fine, you see. But there's a beautiful—if you're interested in the concept of numbers, I started reading this book a while ago but never finished it, but it seemed quite intriguing, which is a book called 'Our Numbers.' And that sounds like it just got cut. Let me know what you felt. I started reading it, it was quite intriguing, but I never got down to finishing it.

Not much hope for me then.

No, no, not because it was difficult or something. It was just maybe something else came up or I don't know why.

But yes, I actually work with language, so I don't know why I used numbers. Because I thought it was more of a universal example. I don't know, it just came. But thank you, thank you, Father.

Actually, a number can take us out of our heads. Yeah. Because if I say to you, imagine—maybe I took this example earlier—but imagine two oranges, you see, you can do it. You see two oranges. Then I say, 'Okay, imagine five.' You can imagine five, you see. Now I say, 'Okay, imagine 20,' and it's starting to become a bit approximate, no? You can't really say. Then I say, 'Imagine a hundred.' You've lost it already. The mind cannot handle it; just there's oranges, you see. And then if I say, 'Imagine a million oranges,' it is just showing you visualization. There's no way you can actually confirm that what you're visualizing is a million.

So it just sometimes, like the concept of infinity actually is not something fathomable by the mind, you see. Or endless, timeless—all of these attributes which are God's true attributes or the Self's true attributes are unfathomable by the mind, isn't it? So yes, so that is why these pointers are so useful because how do we recognize that which does not come and go? How do we find that which is not in time? It is not possible using the mind. And even with the visualization of the mind, it's not possible. So you see what a limited instrument it is. It's only useful till two oranges; five it's okay; by ten it's kind of becoming shaky, you see; by 20 it is lost; million, forget about it. Then how will it fathom infinity? You see, you cannot do it, no?

So we are trying to use—and that is the bane of the spiritual seeker—that we try to use our mind to understand God or the Self, you see. And the instant we don't try to do that, we don't try to understand, it is apparent. It is so apparent, so available. And there are very beautiful examples like this to see how the mind is so limited. I'm sure even in language there are many examples we can use. Yes, like last time, was it in the broadcast where I was saying, 'Speak words but don't make any sense, like blah blah blah'? But those are not words. That 'blobley blue' is my favorite, of course. But things, just speak words which mean something apparently and then, but as a combination they don't make any sense. You mean now? Like do it now if you want.

Yeah, yes. And yeah, okay. Like just put words together? Yeah, like house, desk, sky, water, something like this.

Something like this, something like that. Okay. And those words are only as much nonsense as the words which we think make sense are: 'The cat ate the moon for breakfast and now it's hungry again.' So in fact, the Zen koans were all just words which were meant to push us out of our intellect, no? And Zen masters were very strong and they would push us so that they would say, 'No, you have to resolve this, you have to solve this.' And what would happen is that you would stop relying on your intellect and come to this freedom where you recognize that forget the entirety of life, but even the tiniest aspects of life are understandable with this limited instrument that we have called the mind. Got it.

Let's talk to somebody who I haven't seen before. Let's go to Adrona. Am I pronouncing it correctly, my dear? Adrona? Adrona?

Adrona, yes. Because I have been listening to Mooji for a few years now and I have been to Rishikesh. But when after the Rishikesh season some of my Lithuanian friends were coming to Bangalore to see you, I was thinking, 'Why? You know, they have Mooji, why do they need some another guru?' But now I can't stop listening to you, you know? When I find you, it's just like a feeling of family and warmth and love. And thank you. And now I feel fear because, wow, that this is coming up. It's not easy for me.

It's quite natural. When you come on Zoom and you know everybody's there, it can feel a bit natural to experience some of this. It's fine. Take your time, just relax. We have all the time. Don't worry. You can drink some water if you like, whatever. It's fine.

You know, I—when I listened at one of your satsangs, you talked to one guy and you said to him that, 'Well, you just be open in the satsang and of the rest I will—like, I will take care.' And it was, wow, it's like some burden fell away because, you know, my spiritual journey is like one step forward, two steps back. Like when I just come, it seems that I reach some peace and some something, you know? Then somehow, I don't know, I just get into some mundane life, like in some mundane tasks, and just a little bit like push spirituality aside. And I need your help just with that.

I'm always with you. I'm always with you. And my help is always available. You know, what is the master? The master is your own divine presence. And that is your very existence, actually. So it is the substratum of the play called Adrona; it is the substratum of that itself which you can never lose. So in that way, the master is always with you. It does happen at times in life where, like you say, limited things seem more important or they seem real, and we start to play with them. We want to grasp them or we want to push them away. But that is the natural aspect of life. The good news is that you're here. The good news is that you're here.

And what can often happen in satsang is that we want to remember and use all this that we are hearing so that it can help the future me, you see? And that is why I say that your only job right now is to just be open and empty and leave the future one to me. Let that be my problem now, so that you don't then have to operate under that pressure of, 'Okay, am I getting him well? What is he saying? I better remember.' And even worse, mostly what happens is I hear this report that in satsang it's all fine, you see, but the minute I leave then I'm back to the same old stuff, you see. And what happens is even during satsang we're just thinking about what's going to happen after satsang. So then even that is gone. So even the openness that is available in satsang seems to get pushed out because the mind is proposing to us what will the—

Okay, am I getting him well? What is he saying? I better remember. And even worse, mostly what happens is we hear this report that in satsang it's all fine, you see, but the minute I leave, then I'm back to the same old stuff, you see. And what happens is even during satsang, we're just thinking about what's going to happen after satsang. So then even that is gone. So even the openness that is available in satsang seems to get pushed out because the mind is proposing to us: what will the future bring? So don't worry about any of that. Don't worry about any of that. So when you say, uh, one step forward and two steps back, you see, I'm hearing your report; it doesn't seem like that is true, actually. It seems like a lot of beautiful steps forward because there's so much openness there. There's so much openness there, which doesn't sound like a self-defeating sort of journey.

Sorry, I cannot hear you because the sound is very bad. Is there some other mic also? Let me try to mute everyone. So like this, it doesn't sound like it's so much one step forward, two steps back. It seems quite nice. But one thing that I did notice is that if you are going to get your progress based on peace or joy or something like that, you will just trouble yourself. What about everyone else? Can you hear me well? Everyone else can hear okay. Maybe then I'm just going to mute your mic as well and see if there's some feedback happening from there, and then when you want to speak, I'll unmute your mic. Okay, okay. So let's see if this is better. You can just give me a thumbs up sign. Yeah, okay. Good, good, good, good idea.

So what happens many times is that we have an idea of the ideal state that we are supposed to come to, but life is too broad to always be in a particular state. And as I was saying in last time's satsang—and there's a very nice conversation with Mahesh we had last time about this—what can happen when we have an idea about what a spiritual state is or what a free state is, is that when that sort of state appears, we then want to become a guard or a watchman of that state. And anything which seems the opposite of that, then we want to fight against that and say, 'You can't come. No, you can't come. I want to be in my peace because that is my...' you see? But does that look like freedom to you? It doesn't look like freedom at all where there's a state and we are just constantly trying to guard this: 'No, no, don't touch my state. Don't touch my state. It's a pristine state. I have done 10,000 hours of self-inquiry and only then have I achieved this state. Now you don't touch this state,' you see? That sounds like a very oppressive way to live. It doesn't sound like freedom at all.

You see, freedom must mean that everything can come. See, everything can come and everything can go. And that is the beauty of self-recognition, because you recognize that that which you truly are, to that, whatever may come or go, it doesn't really matter. It's not touched by any of that, you see. So the recognition of your true Self is not so that the false one can use this recognition to make its life better, you see. It is to recognize what you really are and then don't fall into the reference of taking yourself to be the false one, you see. And that which you truly are, you see, for that, all the colors and shapes and sizes and flavors in this worldly creation, they are all the same. You see, it can be—it is in fact—completely untouched by any of that, you see.

And then, okay, there's an auxiliary question which I'll take right away. It says, 'Is whatever that comes and goes the same as awareness?' Yes, because what happens is that everything goes over here. Everything goes away, like we say everything comes and goes, you see, but the Self remains. The truth remains, you see. If now something comes, where can it come from? Only from that which remained, no? It cannot come from something that went away because it is no longer there, you see. So that untouched reality, you see, is playing with itself in its manifest aspect, you see. So in Vedanta, you would say Nirguna Brahman and Saguna Brahman, but it is the same Brahman, the same Self, you see. So now I want to ask you, if you were to come to the end of this journey which you feel like is back and forth a bit, how would you know?

Like once I had an experience, like it was a short one, but there was no me. Like everything was except me. So since then, I want to be in that state permanently.

Yes, I completely get what you're saying. But also I want to ask you, where is the me now?

It seems that it's in this body and in this conditioning. Like I feel like a mother of my children and this and that and...

Okay, so let's go on this slowly because this is a very important point, no? They see that the truth does not come and go. The truth does not come and go, you see. So whatever is here must be here and now and must be available to recognize here and now. But also the false never is, you see. The false ego, the false person, is never born. It's just an idea. So let's try an experiment. If you keep all the ideas aside, we are going to find, or look for, a tangible me, you see, which you think you have to lose. Can you locate that me and show me where it is?

I feel like I am feeling because right now I'm hearing that, like, behind the door my children are talking and screaming and somehow they get my attention. It's okay, I want to be with you and follow you.

Yeah, I want to give you a tip. The tip is that God never makes a mistake with anything that is cooked for us, or for itself, whatever you might want to call it, you see. So everything is just perfect for whatever needs to be seen or whatever has to unfold, you see. It's fine. You can include your children's voices in the contemplation. It's another set of perceptions that is happening in the play of your life. So include that in your contemplation. Don't try to push it away, you see, because once you make an opposition to something, then the mind will keep playing that and say, 'No, no, but that is still there. You want to be fully in satsang but this is stopping you from being there.' It's okay. It's completely fine. So children are making noise there; it's fine. I have two natures in my house, so it's quite noisy. And the looking for this me does not need concentration, actually. It doesn't need for you to concentrate because it should be obvious, no? Where is this me? With this body, what is it?

Yes, I have a lot of identification with my body.

Yes, but identification can only function if you think about it, you see. So for a moment, just whatever you think outside, let it come and go, just like your children's voices, you see. Don't worry. Another child worried and concerned? Do you want to take a minute or two, just speak to them and come back? That's also okay.

Okay, just a minute.

That was quick. Now it's better? Oh, very obedient child. That was really super quick. So you said—let me recap a bit—you said that you had an experience where you saw that there is no me. And I'm again saying, I completely understand what you're saying about that, you see. But do you find such a me here right now?

Yes, like I feel it. Yes. So someone in me just doesn't want to fail because I have this chance to talk with you and, like, I had been listening to your satsangs and there have been so many moments of peace, no mind, and like now that I cannot go to that peace and remove my identity, so I feel like...

You feel that you're feeling? Ah, that's what... your voice was breaking up a bit, but your feeling or not feeling... okay, so you don't take any pressure about that. You don't have to worry about any of that. So let it all be my problem. Let it all be my problem. And I don't hear you at all. Okay, we just lost electricity here. Am I audible? Yes? I'm on my phone hotspot. Okay, okay. So you're still with me? Still with me? Yes, yes, yes, yes. This is how consciousness has fun.

Okay, so I was saying that don't worry, we can have many more opportunities to have conversations as well. So it's not that you have to put too much pressure on yourself right now to get something. I will just point you to some very simple things and based on the feedback I get from you, we can have a conversation. It doesn't have to be like right now you have to get it or something like that. We're just chatting like friends, okay? So just very easy and light. Don't worry about any of that, okay?

So what I want to ask you is that when we say that the me exists, that there is a me, you see, now it cannot be on the basis of, 'Oh, I feel there is a me' or 'There is a me.' Just like if I was to say, 'Is there a cat in your room?' and you said, 'No, no, I feel there is a cat' or 'I think there is a cat,' I would say, 'No, no, but where is the cat?' You see? Can you find the cat? So we cannot rely on what our feelings are saying or what our concepts or our mind is saying to confirm the presence of this me. For something to exist, it must have some sort of tangibility, because we are talking about something tangible. So can you tell me where this me is right now? Where is this me sitting?

It feels like in here, in my chest.

Now, if you go there, go there and see if you are just located in that sensation, or are you not the one that is aware of the perception of that sensation? You see? Are you not the one witnessing that sensation?

I am aware of this.

You are aware of this. Now this awareness, you see, does that seem more close to you, or does the sensation seem more close to you? And 'close' is not distance; which is more intimate?

Like right now, this awareness... I have to put an effort to withdraw my attention from my thoughts and feelings and emotions and go to that witness.

Yes, it can seem like some effort is required initially, but really I'm not even talking about the play of attention. Your attention can remain on that sensation; it's fine, you see. But that which your attention is reporting to, that is always you, isn't it? No matter what the sensation might be. Effortlessly, you see. In fact, if you try to stop it, if you said, 'No, Mr. Attention, don't come back to me. You go somewhere else with your stuff,' you would not be able to do it. Could you repeat this, please? Yes, if you tried and said, 'Mr. Attention, don't come to me with what you have; you go to somebody else,' you could not do it, isn't it?

Yes, I couldn't do it. But the content of what attention is bringing you is changing, is always changing. Something or the other, some perception or the other. But the you to which it is reporting, is that also changing?

Is not changing. I am now present. That you, that you—how do you recognize it? Can you perceive it? I cannot hear you again. Okay, my dear, my internet is a bit patchy because I'm using this phone now. Is it better now? Better now? It's a bit better. Okay, so I'm saying now I do hear you, because before I... good, good, good, my dear. So I was saying, this you, is it something that you perceive? I'll turn off my video for a bit. Now is it better?

Yes.

Oh, good. Okay. So I was saying that what did you use to recognize this you which remains unchanged? Did you perceive this you? Can you perceive the one that attention is bringing content to?

No, I cannot.

You see, you cannot perceive it. Is it just another thought?

No, it's not.

It's not a thought, you see. So this recognition is independent of perception or thinking, and yet it is so apparent. Now, what can happen to this you? What trouble does it have? It doesn't have any trouble. Okay, now is there another you? Is there another one that you have to lose or something like that?

Well, it still seems that somehow this person is still on the screen. I can say like this.

Yes, but whatever may be on the screen, we just saw that in your reality you are untouched by whatever is on the screen. Actually, the person is not even on the screen, but it can seem like that initially.

It is so apparent now. What can happen to this 'you'? What trouble does it have? It doesn't have any trouble. Okay, now is there another you? Is there another one that you have to lose or something like that?

Well, it still seems that somehow this just—this person is still on the screen. I can say it like this.

Yes, but whatever may be on the screen, we just saw that in your reality, you are untouched by whatever is on the screen. Actually, the person is not even on the screen, but it can seem like that initially. Another mistake that many times we end up doing is we confuse our own sense of being, like a sense of existence which is the presence of God itself—the very consciousness that we are talking about—and the mind tricks us into believing that that is the 'me' that we have to get rid of somehow. I cannot get it. When I see it, you try to stop being. What is it that is still being? It's impersonal. It's impossible, isn't it? So there's a beingness which is apparent, but that is not individual. That is not limited. It has no boundary, it has no shape, it has no size, you see. All of time, all of space arises within that. So where is the 'me' now? Is it just another feeling within this being? And don't compare any two experiences. Don't compare what happened to me earlier; 'I need that to happen again' because it is not important. Don't miss fresh God for an old experience of God. And we're not trying to get somewhere, not trying to even find something; we're just checking on what already is now. For this that witnessed all the content coming from attention, you notice so gently and so naturally that it is you now. What change does that one want? Nothing. Has that been on any journey? Did you have to do a lot of effort to recognize yourself as this? No, it is so natural, you see.

Now, if we try to use this recognition to want something, you see, and therefore want something out of this simple recognition, that is when it will become all confusing and difficult. The mind will say, 'But how does this help you?' you see. But it will still refer to you as the false one, not the real one, you see. It will still refer to you as the one that doesn't exist. So your only job, if there is one—if there is one—when the mind gives you these proposals, then to just let them come and go. Just remain open and empty. That's all.

I know that if you stay with me, this only then it will be possible because...

Well, yes, yes, but I'm always with you. So that condition is always easy. That condition is always now. Don't add any other condition. Don't add any other 'only if something happens this way' or 'it doesn't happen this way' then 'then I'm free or not free.' Let everything then become my problem. If I am always with you, then why do you want to make anything your problem? Okay, let's see if this audio is better now. Somehow we can hear the noises from Nupur's kitchen. No, not from there. Somewhere we're hearing some pressure cooker. Okay, good, good. So it's really warm and, you know, not so comfortable in this room, but maybe somebody can sing some bhajan now. This candle is also pretty warm. Maybe the distance also not fully charged. It's true. Okay, so it looks like it's going to be a very short satsang. Wait a few minutes. I don't mind waiting a few minutes if the electricity comes back, but in the interim, somebody can sing something. Other ones sing one more or maybe you can start and then the others can also come.

Where is she? Father, you sing? No, you want me to sing already? It's pretty hot in here. Africa is not online. I am going to sing with my mic off. I don't see her, but if you're here, just raise your hand, my dear, and we'll come to you in a moment. But now you can start. Father wants, so we can have a few start and then we go to Aditya. Suggest something further. Nothing's coming. Usual go-to option. What is the Krishna? What is the one? Oh, you want to sing something from your new album? You can do some promotion. Yeah, sure. Actually, some Krishna one is coming for others.

Something. Hey, good, my dear. Okay, so there's a—before we go to Aditya, there's a quick request. Radia says, 'Can I have a short question? I cannot confirm that I am untouched by anything.' Let's go to Ludhia. Yes, please.

Exactly when we were talking, I could resonate very, very much. The attention reports to me and I can recap and I cannot see this 'me.' But yeah, if we are talking about if I'm untouched by anything that appears, I feel...

Okay, so only that which our attention brings to us can we perceive, isn't it? Now you said that this attention is reporting back to you, you see, as the witness of whatever perception may be. But do you feel like the witness is involved with the perception in some way? When I say witness, I don't mean like a witness entity; I mean like more like a witnessing itself.

I cannot help not to witness it. I cannot help not to witness it.

Yes, but does that which witnesses it—does that which witnesses it—is that also part of the perceptual play, involved in the play in some way?

No, it's not in there in the appearance.

It's not. Okay, okay. So that is what untouched means: that it remains as it is, independent of what perception may appear or not, okay? You see, now what you should do is rather than trying to confirm it, you must try and make the witness part of the perceptual play. Make it touched, not untouched. Can you do it?

No, I don't know even you can have. Is it? No.

Okay, very good. So we've done very well so far. Now the only thing to confirm is whether it is you that is that witnessing.

That's up there. It's clear. That's the only thing that I—I'm aware of everything that appears.

Yes, yes, yes. So now, repeat your question. Is it still valid?

If I'm untouched by anything that appears, it seems not to have held so much significance for me right now.

Yeah, for now you've confirmed that you are that awareness and you also confirmed that awareness is not in any way touched by whatever may be getting perceived. No. So only when you take yourself to be something as part of the perceptual play, only then can you be touched in that way or affected in that way, isn't it? Yes, yes. So the real thing always is what we are taking ourselves to be, not what needs to be fixed in the world of perception or in this play. The only confusion really is what we take ourselves to be. Everything else is a make-believe confusion even, and even that only confusion is also a make-believe confusion actually.

Right now, if it—I couldn't follow you right now. It's like just swimming for me.

Yes, okay. Let me say it in different words. The root of all suffering, the root of all confusion and suffering, is nothing but a confusion, you see. So the root of all confusion is always about who you are. It is never about the content of the experience. The mind will convince you that it is about what is appearing and that has to change. No, it is always only about what you are taking yourself to be.

What's happening right now is the—I don't—I'm not taking myself to be anything. Yes, even the identity. But still it felt like when these things appear, it feels I have to—like I have to bear them. You have to work, bear them, bear the pain a little bit.

Bear them in what way? Can you bear them? What do you have to be to bear something? Is consciousness bearing the weight of this world? Like, in the light of consciousness, this entire universe is appearing, but does it feel heavy to consciousness? 'Oh, this entire world is here, I'm so tired of holding it up.' No, not like this. So that one is that which is aware even of consciousness, even of the play of waking state and dream state and sleep state. Is that bearing anything? Is that making an effort or non-effort towards something? Is the awareness being aware effortful?

No, it's not. Not just trying to be aware of anything.

Yes, exactly. Nor is it a strain to just be as consciousness, you see. So that which you really are in the unmanifest and the manifest aspects, both are just very natural. So the one that has to bear something, which seems like there's some effort involved in that, is which one? Doesn't exist. What are you having to bear right now? Just let go. Let go and see if the world goes. Does all perception vanish? Perception is still perceived effortlessly. Everything in this universe is playing out as it is meant to, including the play of this body. Include this body and its sensations in the perception of the world. Don't give it a special degree as 'me' or something. Now, from this broad perspective, what is effortful? What are you having to bear? Are you doing your being?

No, no. It is just being.

And in being, being is the holy light of consciousness in which everything plays out, you see. By its will, there's nothing for a make-believe 'me' to do.

The difference between beingness, awareness, and when you said like you aware of beingness, I cannot—I cannot see the difference.

Yes, yes, yes. So when I ask, 'Can you stop being now?' No. Try to stop being. You notice that there's a particular beingness, you see. I don't want to call it a sense, although provisionally we can use the word that there's a sense of being. But when I ask you, 'Are you aware now?' qualitatively the two questions are different, isn't it? Are you aware now?

Yes.

Did you use the same recognition to confirm 'Can you stop being' and 'Are you aware now'?

Beingness is more like I cannot—I cannot not be.

Yes, yes. So don't infer anything. Don't make any inference. Just try to not be and you will notice that your being is there and at its core you can sense it like a presence, like a presence of being or I am-ness.

I cannot—the I am-ness, I cannot not stop being. It's not—but the actual like sensation of presence, I cannot pinpoint it.

Ah, I see, I see, I see. Okay, so what you can do is over the next few days, just keep on contemplation in your heart and just report back next time when you come, which is: what happens when I wake up? What wakes up in the morning? Reality does not come and go, but then what is waking up and going to sleep?

And if I may, this has been here a little bit and I see the difference that something—something not even the mind, the mind doesn't have to be present, but something wakes up. Something like aliveness I would call it is present there. But I will keep this.

Yes, yes, and it's good. So to notice that this aliveness or beingness or consciousness came when I wake up, you see, to notice the contrast, the witnessing must be throughout, isn't it? Because if the witnessing also came along with the aliveness as you called it, then you would say that it is always there, you see. But to notice that it wasn't there and now it is there, there needs to be a constant witnessing of that. So that witnessing as awareness is ever-present, and its most primal manifest expression is this expression of being or I am-ness, you see, or aliveness—whatever term you want to use is fine.

This has always been what you said, what you shared. This has been like on the mental level, which I don't give like—just to say no value, like really no value. But like it has—this has been, yeah, it's like that. But this difference between being aware of beingness, I—yeah, it has been like maybe a doubt that this has not been seen.

Yes. Since you've been looking at this question already, what changed when you woke up? Is it just that the world is there now, or first you have to be there? Because you can have an experience, and most of us have these experiences, where it can feel like 'I am awake' but we cannot yet tell if the world is there or even which world this is, or we cannot even recall our name, you see. And yet the presence, like the qualitative presence of being, is apparent as opposed to sleep state where even that is not apparent or witnessed, you see. So don't try to resolve it conceptually, like you said you're not doing. Don't try to resolve.

You have to be there because you can have an experience, and most of us have these experiences where it can feel like I am awake, but we cannot yet tell if the world is there or even which world this is, or we cannot even recall our name, you see? And yet the presence, like the qualitative presence of being, is apparent as opposed to sleep state where even that is not apparent or witnessed, you see? So don't try to resolve it conceptually, like you said you're not doing. Don't try to resolve it conceptually. Go to your intuitive presence and there it's already clear because from there, very naturally, you can say 'I woke up' or 'I went to sleep.' That 'I' in the light of which everything else plays out, that also comes and goes.

Right now I feel I'm left with nothing.

That's not bad. Yeah. Where can you have something or nothing? In which aspect of your being? Just a cut of internet a little bit, I see. I said, where can you get something or nothing? What aspect of your being can have something or nothing?

In the mind. In your intellect. In my mind, isn't it?

Yes. Let that have nothing. Are you still here?

Yes.

You see, you're aware of your existence. That's it. It's very natural actually, but it's only difficult when we try to understand it, you see? Because even those who are not spiritual, who don't know consciousness, awareness, beingness, none of this, say 'I woke up and then I had such good sleep last night; there was absolutely nothing,' you see? And other times you say, 'Oh, in my sleep then I had various other things, dreams came, I was in this strange place,' you see? And they talk like that. So to be aware of all of this is actually very simple. To try and construct an understanding out of it is impossible. And even the words in satsang can just point you to your intuitive insight, which is so natural and organic, but you can only struggle with your mind, you see? There is no struggle possible with intuition. Like, struggle with your heart and show me, you see? So that which is natural is impossible to struggle with. You cannot not be. Try to stop being. You can't, you see? Effortlessly your being. Nothing you're doing to hold it up, you see? You're aware of that being effortlessly. Everything that is of value is effortless. What are you trying to understand?

Nothing right now. Um, nothing. Then no struggle is possible. Yes, yes. When you said... I am sorry if this is a little bit of arrogance, I can't see that it... it's a little bit of the problem is sometimes what like I create my own trouble. Some... I can see this just now when you said aware of beingness, it's just like it's... yeah.

Yeah, because what may have happened is maybe we have another construct. Maybe we heard from another teacher about something and then... because the words, the terminology can be different, and that is why it's important to be on the same page in terms of the dictionary. Otherwise, it can sound very confusing because another may say that it is consciousness itself being conscious of itself, you see? Or another may say that it's awareness just being aware; there's no separation between awareness and consciousness. Now another may say that all is consciousness; it's all pure consciousness. Like in Indian Advaita Vedanta, they mostly say consciousness playing as individualized consciousness and they say pure consciousness, you see? And they don't usually talk about awareness. So it's a question of terminology. And if you feel like there's a construct which you're using to understand any of this, you see, just throw it all away. Even if it has come from anyone, just throw it away.

You see, because otherwise it creates these conceptual oppositions. Because 'when I was sitting with this teacher he said like this and I saw it like that, now Ananta is saying oh there's an awareness of my beingness, but that's not what I saw then,' you see? Now this streams what is right now. Either just throw it away, you see? You're not going to get a certificate for being right about any of this. So you don't have to conclude that it is this way or that way. Every explanation will use a different terminology and don't get caught up in that difference. What I'm fundamentally saying to you is that everything that you need to know is already available to you intuitively. And in your expression also, when you express what you recognize from that place, it may be different, you see? But if it becomes something that you have to confirm—'is this right, is this wrong, is it not like this, is it consciousness aware of awareness or awareness conscious of being conscious' and all that crazy stuff—you see, you just go all over the place. So we're returning to the simplicity of a child, not to the understanding of an advanced spiritual seeker. Does the child know what is aware, what is conscious? No, conceptually no. But do they recognize it? Of course.

Like as there is an example you give with your shirt, that's like perfectly clear. If this is what you said here right now, yeah, like I don't need these extra labels.

Yes, but what I'm really saying is that what do you mean by clarity and lack of clarity? Is it to have a nice house in the intellect is clarity, and for it to be all over the place and shaky is lack of clarity? Then be more unclear. See, whatever house you build, just chop it down, you see? Because many feel like one day we will construct the perfect house in our intellect and then we will be free. 'There is an awareness on top of which sits consciousness, and consciousness plays the game of individualization of consciousness. If the other ego is another name for that Atma...' you see? Then what does that construct help? You can just write a book with that. It's not going to help you in any way, you see? But to be open and empty and to be independent of any strong boxes like that is freedom, you see? So if you are attached to the notion of some sort of conceptual clarity, I promise to confuse you much more.

So I can throw this away a little bit?

Everything you can throw away. Throw everything that you can throw. That which you cannot throw is just there naturally, organically, and it has no trouble recognizing itself. There is no need to confirm. I have often said I'm just speaking a lot of nonsense, you see? I'm not speaking anything which is right, you see? I am not saying my framework is the best and I'm only speaking the truth or something like that. It's all nonsense, you see? It's the nonsense which is only meant to cut out your nonsense and to leave you empty, open and empty, you see? So we don't need to get into any sort of this thing about 'is this correct, does this happen like this, or does it not happen like this?' you see? It's just how expressions happen. Like I was saying the other day, what I find in my heart my mouth never matches up to that, and yet in one way I find it helpful to come and share with all of you because it seems to be able to point you to something which is beyond your mind. But if the words themselves become an object of contention—'is it like this or is it like that'—then it's not useful, you see?

Can I report one thing please? Yes, I must confess that this whole time I was like hunting for, you could say, silence or no feeling-ness. Like this, somehow the mind has convinced me that these tensions and everything can't appear. And yesterday I watched a highlight review with one of our sangha brothers and it was like, don't do... I even thought it's so strong, like don't make a meaning out of anything that phenomenal that appears. Like don't judge yourself here because I was like, 'Okay, okay, empty.' I was... yeah, that God is only God when these things are not here.

Yes, exactly. Yes. Otherwise God is on a vacation. It's a very popular notion; many get trapped in this kind of idea. But we don't notice the absurdity in it. The absurdity is that 'I am free only when this happens like this.' But 'only when' is not freedom; it is limitation. These are very subtle mind tricks. And I feel very soon you must, if it is at all possible, you must come to Bangalore and stay here with me for some time once things open up a bit. If whenever grace makes it possible, because I see that there is openness there, but I feel like something I can help, you know, chop more clearly if you're in front of me like this. If grace makes it possible, it will be good.

I'm a little bit... correct me, but I'm leaving this not like 'I am somebody' is leaving it, but it's just like as I'm leaving this to grace a little bit also, like as everything... I try to make even this...

Yes, yes. And now leave even that. 'I've left it to grace.' To grace, yes. Yeah, yes, yes. Otherwise we should take a new position of the surrenderer, you see? So like, surrender the surrenderer as well. Very good, very good, very good. Okay, so now my computer is out of battery to say goodbye to all of you. But what you can do is, if you feel, some of you can just sing among yourselves and have some fun, or if you're busy you can continue with your day. Sorry, one second, who was saying? So many hands are up.

Just when you say, 'Don't make a meaning out of this,' does it mean not to take the mind, what it is saying, the thought, what it is saying, as true? Because sometimes it happens even like the feelings are here but nothing, like no thought, no commentary appears. So just don't make a meaning, don't make a judgment, is like not to take the thought seriously?

Okay, let's see if our computer allows this. So pure perception has all the knowledge that you need, you see? So allow the pure perception to remain as pure perception. You don't need to augment it with any further mental constructs. So if a feeling comes, it comes. It is perceived. It is already showing you whatever needs to be seen, you see? Now you don't need to make a conclusion about some non-existent 'me' because some feeling is coming up or something, you see? Whatever comes up actually organically is impersonal. It is consciousness playing with itself. It's only through its own interpretations, conceptual interpretations, that it seems to be personal.

Yes, thank you. If there's something I didn't like, no, I need to do nothing. Not to judge it, or just leave it be in the pure perception, which is... I find it's not a choice, but yeah. Thank you.

Good, very good. Thank you. So now open, anyone can unmute themselves and I can stay till the computer fully goes. But now, okay, it's not responding also now, so I feel like it's done. Love you all so much. Love you, love you, Father. Love you, Father. Thank you, Father. Thank you, Mother. I love you so, so, so much. Thank you. Om Hare.

You are so beautiful to me. You are so beautiful to me. Can't you see? You're everything I hope for, you're everything I need. You are so beautiful to me. Such joy and happiness you bring. Such joy and happiness you bring. Like a dream, the guiding light that shines in the night, heaven's gift to me. You are so beautiful to me, and I love you. The guiding light that shines in the night, heaven's gift to me. You are so beautiful to me. I am the Father, we are the one, we are the one. I am the Father, we are the one, we are the one. I am the Father, we are the one, we are the one. I am the Father, we are the one, we are. I am the Father, we are the one, we are. I am the Father, we are the one, we are. I am the Father, we are our one, we are one.

I am the Father. We are the one. We are. I am the Father. We are the one. We are. I am the Father. We are our one. We are one.

I am. Yes. This is. Is this. There is for me. Give me. I am. I am He that you are. I am Shiva. I am Shiva. You are, you are always in my heart, never shall we be apart. You are always in my heart, never shall we be apart. It is done. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. You are always in my heart, never shall we be apart. I am always in your heart, never shall we be apart. It is done. Hallelujah. Namaste.