From Intellect to Intuition… From Head to Heart - 15th January 2021

You see, I realized also that there is a huge sort of anti-vaccine sort of mindset in the developed world, and in the developing or the so-called third world, there is more of a pro-vaccine slant because in countries like India, for example, we did have a lot of trouble with diseases like polio and smallpox, which seemed to have been reduced a lot because of the programs that were instituted. But again, let me not really comment on things which I know very little about.

It's really not about being anti-vaccine. It's really because this one—there's such an intuition that this one is really not... it's going too far.

Somebody made a joke that day, and I'm not trivializing it at all—you have full right to decide what should go into your body or not—and I'm not trivializing it, but I just read a joke and I hope you won't mind me. Somebody said the other day that, you know the actor who played Gandalf in... yeah, so he got vaccinated and people said that if he can get vaccinated, then I trust this vaccine.

There is identification here, is there? What have I got to see?

That it's okay. It's okay. We can keep it light and easy. We can, because your question was more global about all of humanity and not just about fear about yourself, so we don't have to necessarily poke at something. You see, some of that is bound to... some fear is natural, actually, because it's been a very rapid sort of development and things, and I'm not really aware of the full process and things like that. So I don't want to really comment either way in terms of whether it has been done well or not done well, because I get in trouble either way, right? So I just will leave it to all of you. And if somebody calls my name out and says it's my turn to get the vaccine, I will ask all of you about what I should do. You can advise in terms of what should be done.

For many times, I leave decisions to people around me because nothing really shows up as a decision here. And something when it seems time-bound, I just ask anybody sitting in front of me and saying, 'What do you feel I should do?' Somebody says, 'Go, go Father, you go, it's fine,' then I just go. And somebody says, 'No, no, no, you see, this is not good,' then I say, 'Okay, we wait, we see.' So, of course, on other times there's a clear, clear intuitive guidance which is there, and I follow that, much to the chagrin of those others around me at times, yes. But if it is just open inside, then I'm happy to follow all of you, my family, my extended family, which is all of you. So now, and maybe we can check with some more of the extended sangha as well and see what their feel is about it.

Yes, it's like the answer of this one is no, definitely no. But that's there, the mother's identification concerning these kids. I know they will do whatever they want, but I can't help them.

Are they in the healthcare line of work?

No, no, not at all. It's just that because of strong attachments to this, the way I look at it, they are not in full respect of themselves and they have attachments and they are willing to... I mean, this health thing doesn't matter to them and I... there is this feeling really that they don't see the consequences of it. I really... there is this feeling, this is dangerous, this is not right, this vaccine. And so it's always so difficult. I try to give them information and I know that's their choice, as everybody's, but it's always so difficult to find when to intervene and when not to intervene.

Yeah, the best you can do is share whatever credible information you have, and the best they can do is share whatever credible information they have. And what happens, and what's happening more with a lot of humanity now, is because we have what is called echo chambers. Echo chambers—like echo, echo—do you call these echo chambers? What happens is that we surround ourselves on social media and things with people who carry similar opinions as ourselves, and what ends up happening is that we end up confirming each other, but the opinion is the same and then we get convinced. So there are groups of people, all in their own echo chambers and all very convinced about what they think they know. But usually what I found is that on two sides of an argument, usually the truth lies somewhere in the middle. And you know, so I'm happy to rest in that openness for the moment, but I will keep my eyes and ears open for credible information. And if I draw a conclusion either way, or if I get vaccinated, I will try and share that with all of you, or not get it either, okay?

Because there is awareness that there is that information, one pro, one against and whatever, and this is why I exposed it here because your highest guidance matters.

I point absolutely to the Absolute, you see, but relatively through the phenomena. So you see, it's a subtle thing what I'm saying, because there is no such thing as relative truths. So the best I can do is follow my intuitive guidance and guide my family, which is all of you, accordingly. But many times this guidance is just completely open, and in those times I am willing to follow all of you that I trust. Okay?

Okay, thank you. Thank you. One other question, Father: could you speak a little about seva?

Seva is very, very good, you see. Seva translated in English is selfless service. You see, selfless service. And this 'selfless' is obviously small 's' selfless; there is no selfless capital 'S' Selfless. So this selfless is small 's' selfless, you see. So what is the point of most of spirituality and most of spiritual practices? What is the point? You see, it is basically to take the locus of importance away from this central character that we take ourselves to be. So what does seva do? Seva takes that and makes the Master or God or humanity, you see, or all living beings—it makes that central. So in seva, what happens is we let go of our little ego and we focus on a greater force, a greater divinity in one form or the other.

And what happens is—so that is true seva. Many times we feel like we are doing seva, but it's all self-serving. It's all serving either some idea of glory, some idea of personal importance or specialness. I used to run an NGO many years ago where we used to help underprivileged children with healthcare needs, and I used to go to these conferences with other people who were running charitable organizations, and what I found is that many times there was a lot of... I would hear a lot of personal glory. You know, 'I left a huge job at a bank and I'm doing this now for children' or 'I'm doing this now for old people.' So the 'I' was still very strong. So that I would not call seva or service, you see.

So this is when we forget about little old me, you see, and our focus shifts to a greater divinity, a greater power. And in that spirit, this body is allowed to remain as an instrument to that. The sharing of satsang is one example of seva. So if it becomes in service to Ananta, it is that, 'Oh, I'm trying to build a following and I want to become a master' or some silly notion like that, then it could be very burdensome and troublesome and about trying to maintain a certain image. But because all of satsang is about being in service to Guruji, I just feel like then it's so light and easy because it is his words that move this mouth. I am not so concerned about what answer shows up, you see, and the outcomes of those answers; they're all left to Guruji's grace. So I feel like it is a great privilege that Guruji has allowed this one to be in service to him in this way.

So seva basically is letting go of the ego in this way. For those who are temperamentally more suited to action-oriented things, they are allowed to let go of the 'me' identity and focus on being in service to something larger than what they take themselves to be. And so we can draw a parallel with surrender, for example. What happens in surrender? Similar thing where we, in devotion, let go of little old me and we say, 'It's all yours, God, Father,' you see, 'Guruji,' whatever term you want to use. Then also the central narrative then is no longer about this limited one, about this limited idea that we have about ourselves. So selfless service in that way is very, very useful.

So what happens in our sangha is that there's not much like seva opportunity, really, you know, because there's no real ashram, there's no... we don't need to raise funds, there's no donation accounting, all of that stuff is not there. So mostly the seva that I recommend is transcripts. Do transcripts seva. And it's been beautiful because many of those transcripts reach out to platforms like Facebook and other places, and they become then eventually become books that then basically are just words that are shared in satsang, and then they help many who don't maybe necessarily like to watch so much video content and things. They can read the books at their pace. This one also talks a bit fast, no? So the words go through a little bit fast. If you're reading a book, sometimes you just assimilate at your own pace. So transcripts is good. But even if that transcript never gets published, it's very good because you really dive into that aspect of satsang, or that ten minutes of transcripts or twenty minutes of transcript that you're working on. You really dive into that, and many times I've heard the transcript team that they do a transcript and they...

This one also talks a bit fast, no? So the words go through a little bit fast. If you're reading a book, sometimes you just assimilate at your own pace, and so transcripts are good. But even if that transcript never gets published, it's very good because you really dive into that aspect of satsang or that 10 minutes of transcript or 20 minutes of transcript that you're working on; you really dive into that. And many times I've heard from the transcript team that they do a transcript and they wonder whether they actually heard that part in satsang, you see? It seems completely new and they feel like this was so helpful. So that is the extent of the seva opportunity we have at the moment in this sangha. So I hope that answers a bit about seva.

Next is: 'Is there anything beyond awareness?' You see, there is no beyond, is it? There's no beyond.

Next is: 'I want to come up and ask a question but my internet is very poor right now. I'd like to ask a question around work. I have always been slightly resistant to commit to work. There's always the idea my practice won't be as strong and I'll be distracted. What if I get the opportunity to move? There's a one-foot-in and one-foot-out situation. Please shed some light on this. Typing this out, I see there's identification in the future and the idea of right choice and wrong choice.' Good. So, well spotted already, you see? Well spotted already.

So lead your life itself as if it is in seva to the Master, you see? So if you lead your life itself as if it is in seva to the Master, then we don't have to deal with all of this, you see? 'Will I miss out on something? Will I get something? What is better for me?' All of this then becomes opened up, you see? So let the Master choose. The Master is in your heart. Let the Master choose what has to happen and let the outcomes all belong to the Master as well. And then your whole life, your entire life, will become in service.

So the example from here is that since I met my Master, I feel like my Master took over this life in this beautiful way, and this one has just been in service to him. But I've not really had the opportunity much to do, you know, like a lot of physical seva or like a lot of this kind of work, but I just feel like this life is serving him in every way. And there's a work life here, there is a family life here, but hopefully I allow his grace to guide my steps and I don't judge the outcome. I don't say this was good, this was bad, I should have done this or I should not have done this. So my life is his problem. And then we can go as far as to say that this life, which is also his life, is his problem. It becomes simpler that way.

Then next one says: 'Father, can you please explain how can I accept and love myself as I seem to feel low?' Right. Yes. 'Can you please explain how can I accept and love myself as I seem to feel low?' Okay, yes, yes. So the easiest is to just allow yourself to feel your own presence. Allow yourself to dive into your own presence. And what I mean is there's a palpable sense of existence, you see, which is very clear to you. I can give you a tip if you like. What you have to do is not chase this being; you have to try and stop being. You try and stop being, and the palpability of being will become very clear.

So what happens usually is when we run after the being, being seems to become elusive. But if I say to you, 'Can you try and stop being?' right, that which you cannot stop, that is your sense of being, the presence of being. So just for a few moments rest in that. And then naturally, you see, without any expectation, without being attached to that particular outcome, you will notice that there is that which we are calling a love for oneself, which is not different really than the love which is universal, you see? So this love for oneself will just spontaneously emerge out of this, your own presence.

Don't try to rush it or make some sort of benchmark saying, 'Oh, why isn't it calm? I've been with my presence so long.' Don't judge anything in any of these ways and you will find that very naturally that which you are asking for, that self-acceptance, self-love, is just naturally present as a byproduct of your beingness, you see? But if you chase openness, you chase love, you chase bliss, you chase peace, then they seem to run away from you. If you just rest in your presence, then all seem to be in service to you, you see? So for a moment don't even try to love yourself or accept yourself. Just remain in your being. Just remain with your presence and then the rest, even feelings, all of this may just naturally take care of themselves.

'Is nothingness aware of awareness or is awareness aware of awareness?' When these distinctions between all words—nothingness, awareness, aware of—all these fade away, then the true truth becomes very, very apparent and all these words seem like peanuts or popcorn. Short satsang today. Now don't force yourself to ask questions, okay?

'Is disidentifying with consciousness or presence the last step which most of the spiritual seekers do not take?' Sometimes I've said like that. Sometimes I've said that consciousness is enough. Whatever resonates with you is fine. You have to move from intellect to intuition, from head to heart. It means that from intellect to intuition, in intuition that which you really are is fully apparent, you see? And there is no confusion about the life in this world. It's a two-for-one deal and it's for free, you see? Why would you not want that?

In intellect there's judgment, there's burden, there's heaviness, there's suffering, guilt, pride, resentment, remorse, regret—all of this. All of these are the gifts of the mind, see? You let go and access the deeper intelligence which is running this entire universe, then what you are is apparent to you there. Your reality, your timeless truth, is fully apparent and the world is no longer a problem to be fixed. How to access this intuition? By letting go of the ignorance, letting go of false conditioning, letting go of the mind. And the best news is right now it is so. Before the mind come, this is. But, but, but... this is what you see. But before that, who's there? What's making perception happen independent of thought? What's making your heart beat independent of thought? What's making breath happen mostly without our thinking about it? And these are just a few out of millions of processes just in one body. What intelligence is that? Is it forever alien to us or is it an aspect of our very being, of our very Atma, of our very consciousness?

Awareness is always aware, yes. So where does the recognition happen? Many times we feel that what happens in the recognition is that awareness becomes aware of itself, but how could it ever have been unaware, you see? So all that we mean by recognition is that we reach that aspect of our being, you see, which has access to this deeper intelligence, and that is called intuition. That is what going from head to heart means, you see? So that aspect of our existent nature which in a way is deep enough to recognize its very source, and it's very natural to us. It's not a new training you need, you see? It is the letting go which seems a bit unnatural initially. Letting go of the mind which seems unnatural initially, but to access this is very simple.

Where do you find that you cannot stop being? If you try to stop being, where is it apparent that you cannot stop? Where is it apparent that you are aware now? So that seed of self-knowledge, that intuitive presence, is always available to you. And if you let go of the limited notion about ourselves, your reality which the greatest sages have told you, be it, you see? It becomes... they go from being very abstract-sounding scriptures to just a simple testimony about your own self, you see? So the masters playing this game of trying to shake you out of your mind, whether it is through the palpable presence of satsang which you dive into and let go of the mind, or it is through some statements which confuse you completely and let go of your intellect, you see?

So the Zen masters would say, 'What is the sound of one hand clapping?' How many of you have heard about the goose who needs to be rescued from me? And I can repeat it later if you want. So all of this is meant to shake you out of your intellect, out of your ideas of right and wrong, good and bad, to reach a deeper intelligence which is in resonance with this manifestation. So how do you make the discovery that you are aware? Are you aware now? Yes. So that discovery of your true nature, which only takes not even... we can't even say it takes an instant, because it doesn't even take an instant, is what we have been chasing for years.

Don't fear your timelessness. Don't fear stepping out of time and space. It is a very comfortable thing for you to step away from time and space. Even when you close your eyes, where do you go? Where is that that you perceive? Is it like on the back of your forehead? You see all of that stuff. Do you go inside your brain as if you are a neuron or something and you say, 'Oh, this is what's happening'? So what is that space? And all of this manifest appearance, does it not appear in the same space? Where are you hearing this voice? Is it outside of you? Just look, because if you try to think about it, it'll become all convoluted and strange. Just have to look.

So are you aware now as somebody? Are you aware as somebody who is aware, some body or some mind that is aware, or it is awareness which is aware of all appearances and disappearances? And if you are not this awareness, then how do you get to know about what awareness is aware of? What is the communication mechanism between this awareness and you? Is there a hotline? The hotline makes a call, awareness makes a call on the hotline calling, 'Shivoham, Shivoham, come in. This is what you're perceiving at the moment,' you see? And Shivoham says, 'Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, thank you Mr. Awareness, and call me back soon.' If there were two, you would need a medium of communication. So is there somewhere where awareness is but you are not, or you are but awareness is not? In fact, is this a place at all in the first place?

Good. Okay, some hands are up. Melissa, hello.

Hi, hello my dear. Thank you for letting me come on screen. It's always making me a bit nervous somehow coming up on screen, but I felt something wanted to be shared, so I'm going to do it anyway.

I am very happy to hear from you. And where is that naughty son of mine?

He's at work. After a month, he's been back to work today. So it's me.

I've been meaning to speak with Dave as well, you know, and he's been sending some messages but I've just been so busy at work and things.

I understand. Yeah, I think he's here. Hi Dave.

Ah, Dave is here as well. Okay, great. So we'll come to him in a moment. Yeah, okay, you go first.

Oh, there's a lot of stuff happening in my chest, but I'm going to... I just feel like at the moment I have a lot of time off. It's kind of a blessing, like I cannot work because of COVID, like my work is closed for like months now. And what I notice is the deepening into presence, and what comes up in that is like a very deep fear. And it's really physical, like I can feel it in my body. There's a certain point and the thing is, like, I feel kind of like this natural process of interest of worldly stuff happening. And I first thought like there was this depression, but if I really look at that, it's not. It's just like I cannot seem to move myself internally to do that kind of stuff. But as an effect of that, I noticed lately my mind starts to attack me because it's the only thing I can kind of hold on to. And I know it's not true, but it's sometimes so strong and then I see this destructiveness what it brings if I believe it. But it's so hard to not believe. Like, what will happen if I let go into experience?

Oh, as most times, I have some good news for you. And the good news is that... okay, I can take this example. So after I met Guruji, for a few months I just couldn't get this body to move, get to work, you see? I didn't even want to.

Mind starts to attack me because it's the only thing I can kind of hold on to and I know it's not true, but it's sometimes so strong. And then I see this destructiveness what it brings if I believe it, but it's so hard to not believe. Like, what will happen if I let go into experience?

Oh, as most times, I have some good news for you. And the good news is that—okay, I can take this example. So after I met Guruji, for a few months, I just couldn't get this body to move, get to work, you see? I didn't even want to pick up phone calls from clients and, you know, just very, very minimal work was happening for a few months, three, four months. And in India, you know, this like 'the man of the house' quote-unquote is not working for three months, it's a big deal. So my parents and family, everybody started to get very worried. And what happened even is that one time I went to Tiruvannamalai just to visit, and my mother got really concerned. She's like, 'When are you coming back? Your father is so worried about you, he's falling sick' and, you know, this kind of thing. And I said, 'I just came for a few days.'

So what happened naturally is that, just like you were saying and it reminded me of that, I just couldn't get myself to focus on these kind of things for a few months. And what happened then is that because the family was getting so worried and I did not understand what is happening—I was just sitting in so much joy and peace, you see—but what happened is Guruji says is exactly what happened, where he says that you could feel like the happiest, but everybody else around me started saying, 'Are you depressed? What is wrong with you? Why aren't you working?' because I used to be full-on with work. So they would just feel like something has gone wrong. 'Do you need to go and talk to somebody?' And I would say, 'But I'm the happiest I've ever been here.' And they would not believe it because they would feel like there's definitely something wrong, you see? 'You just want to sit in your room all day.' They would just feel like that.

So what happened is that although I was feeling very happy, I sort of listened to my family and I wrote to Guruji and said that this is what's happening, is everything all right? And he said that it's very natural for this to happen for those on the path. It's not something that is mandatory, so nobody should feel like if this is not happening they're not becoming free or something. But it's very natural for this to happen, that as this switch over seems to be happening from head to heart, then it can be that for some period of time you don't really want to engage in the old ways with the world. So it's like you're letting go of one ground and you're moving to higher ground, but while that process is moving, movement is happening, you don't feel like you want to engage in the same old ways about 'what's in it for me, what can I get out of this?' You see, all of these things start to seem very alien.

But what he also told me is that if the life energy comes, you see, then the movement will happen very naturally. So you don't have to worry about it. He also reassured me that this grace which was unfolding here will bless everything in its presence, you see? So the family didn't have to worry. And I made my family read this email where he reassured them that there is nothing to worry about, you see, because everybody is being blessed in the process of waking up. So you don't have to worry at all if that kind of inclination is not there, you see? And you have to be intuitive about that. You have to be intuitive and your intuition can tell you really, because sometimes it also happens in reverse where it can be like some sort of laziness in the guise of spirituality and all of that. So people can use Advaita as an excuse for many things as well, but that's where your smelling ability comes in, you see? You just go to your heart and say, 'Okay, so what is this really?'

And in your case, I just feel like it's a very genuine spiritual unfolding and you must not rush it or worry so much about, you know, worldly concerns at the moment, and you can let it settle in a bit. So anyway, so what happened here after a few months is that that life energy started to come back and work started to get resumed. And over the years it has been up and down, but mostly work is continued. And in this one's case, when I say up and down, it is between eight hours of work being down and 16, 18 hours of work being up. So but that is not a benchmark I'm setting for anyone; it's just how this one flows here where full-on work seems to be quite normal, so it's not a big deal.

So but you can trust the life energy to provide if you're not being mentally driven by any of this and if you're referring to your intuition, then that grace which is moving the entire world is also moving this body that we call Melissa, you see? So it cannot be out of sync if you really follow your heart. Yeah, so I would trust your heart and I would trust your highest feeling about what is going on. And in my heart, I just feel like you're doing really well and there's no need to concern yourself with these things. When work needs to happen again, then the energy will show up itself as well to make that work happen. Yeah.

Now you're saying that, I can really feel the trust in my heart. Like, yes, this feels so true to me. Like I feel that that trust slowly starts to be more embedded in my system. It's just like, I think the most active topic in the Satsang is the mind attacks, you know? That when there's nothing to hold on to anymore, or almost nothing, it tries to—if there's a thought or something happening, it tries to kind of like grab it and kind of hold on to it. And it's so destructive and it makes me sad. That's why I'm crying, because I see what it does to the people around me.

Yeah, yeah, you see? So as you come to the end of your own suffering, then your presence will help those around you with their suffering. So that is the greatest gift that you can give to yourself as well as to the rest of your family and to the rest of mankind, you see? And I know that that term is not very politically correct these days, so it's of humankind. My daughter runs this very beautiful—sorry, I'm digressing a bit, I hope you don't mind—but my daughter runs this very beautiful account on Instagram called gender equality and she's very, very, very what you would call woke. I don't know if the term is popular in UK as well, it's an American term. She's very woke about these things and I'm completely supporting her. So if she heard me say mankind, I'd be in big trouble. Thanks a lot. Just trust. Yes, it's beautiful.

I've been speaking about this for the last few Satsangs, that the greatest gift that I found in my life was to meet Guruji where they were. Not only did such immense love arise for him, but also the immensity of trust, you see? And this love and trust together was so beautiful because love is the antidote to fear, you see? And trust allows you to just surrender. Otherwise, what happens in surrender is if you trust someone and you say, 'Okay, I'm just going to follow them,' what happens is that in the absence of love, sometimes the fear can seem too much, you see? But you cannot fear and love at the same time. So devotion is a beautiful thing because in devotion you can follow, you see? And the fear is not strong because there is love. So that's why devotion is greater. Devotion is greater than any other limited quality in the world. Thank you. Thank you, my dear. Thank you. Okay, Kunwar was to come. Kunwar can come.

So I had a question. Like when Adi Shankara says that intellectual knowledge is enough, but how can something of the mind reach which is beyond the mind? And if there is just one, who is debating with whom?

Yeah, thank you. Thank you, my dear. Very sweet. I'm not a great student, so but I have to confess that I haven't heard Shankara say that. So maybe it was—many times Guruji says this, no, that the answer that comes in Satsang is not really answering the question but the questioner. So because for a moment I was taken by surprise that Shankara would have said that. Because Shankara has written, of course, a beautiful, beautiful commentary on the Bhagavad Gita as well, and Sri Krishna has very clearly told us that subtler than intellect is the Self, and in a way implying that you cannot find it as an object within the intellect.

So I wouldn't say that. And of course, if it is between me and Shankara, please, please follow Shankara, because I'm not even usually—had not even view of being mentioned in the same conversation with him. But I would say that from my own experience, I found that the intellect is very limited compared to what I found in my heart to be the truth. And in fact, I will go even beyond and say that it created a lot of impediments because here also this one was quite intellectual, you know, in his approach to things. So the need to intellectually understand and to create conceptual spiritual frameworks was very strong here. And those frameworks became an impediment to just my intuitive understanding of what is so. And they always got bashed up in life, the conceptual frameworks that I was building, you see? And I found usually that they did not serve the truth in the way I expected them to serve the truth.

So maybe what we can do is you can share a bit, because there are many, many hundreds of commentators on the works of Shankara, many commentaries also. Maybe you can send me some things, some reference to this statement, and I can help you put it in some context. Or I'm happy to be corrected by Shankara if I'm wrong and, you know, I'm happy to correct my error. If Shankara is saying something, there must be something definitely to that. So I'm happy to read that once more and see what shows up from here. So can you say the rest of what you were saying after this? After Shankara's statement, you asked a few questions.

Yeah, I just asked if there is one, who is debating with whom? Because you know, I also got very frustrated with this intellectual thing and I resonate completely with what you said because the moment I came to the heart and, you know, feeling and more of devotion, things deepened. And intellect just gives you pride and it traps you. But then there's a school of Sureshvara, one of his disciples, who says listening is enough. And then there is a sect which is more of the heart and meditation. But then I don't resonate with the thing that just intellectual thing will be enough. And then fighting and debating, what does it do? But then he's such a great being so...

Of course, of course. So this statement of 'listening is enough,' I would translate into—like many times I have also said that, and let me explain to you why I say that, no? So many times somebody will ask me, 'So what is the best thing I can do to come to self-realization or come to this?' I would just say to them, 'Just come to Satsang and try to pay some attention to what is being said,' you see? So what happens is that there's a hearing. There's a hearing of what is being said, but what happens in that hearing is that it gives you the ammunition for contemplation, you see? So for example, if we had not heard Bhagavan say, 'Who am I? Ask yourself who am I,' you see, then we may have still wandered around a lot trying to get to some pointer to come to this. So that hearing step was very important here as well, whether we call it hearing or reading, you see? Now that is not really so important. So these atomic pointers have been shared by the masters, you see, and it's important to hear them, especially on this which we call the Gyana, you know? So it is heard. So how is it—and okay, so let me not digress so much. You hear it and then what happens is that most who hear it misuse it in the way that I did in the past as well. So what happens is that I would hear it, 'Okay, there is Brahman, then there is Ishvara...'

Whether we call it hearing or reading, you see, now that is not really so important. So these atomic pointers have been shared by the masters, you see, and it's important to hear them, especially on this which we call the Gyana, you know. So it is heard. So how is it? And okay, so let me not digress so much. So you hear it and then what happens is that most who hear it misuse it in the way that I did in the past as well. So what happens is that I would hear it: 'Okay, there is Brahman, then there is Ishvara, then there is Atma, then there is Jivatma.' So you make these kind of conceptual frameworks and you feel like now I'm understanding the Self, you see, using that. But the pointers were not meant to be in this way. Like a pointer like 'Are you aware now?' you see. So it is heard first. It is heard, isn't it? But then it is not an intellectual process. 'Yes, of course I'm aware, you see, because my brain is functioning in this way and this human functioning happens.' So many can do that and apply this sort of pointing as an intellectual principle and store it in the knowledge frameworks, you see.

But when we say manana or contemplation, what is really happening is that we use this pointer, you see, to dive into ourselves. So contemplation in the world usually means to think about it, you see, but in satsang it is not to think about it. It is to use a deeper looking, you see, which is not a perceptual looking. So that is what we mean by contemplation. When we hear the pointers of satsang, when we hear the Master give us a pointer, then we hear it first, then we use it in our contemplation. You see, 'Can I stop being?' Then we really check. Then upon checking, then we realized that we come to this intuitive insight. And that's what we've been pointing to. We come to this intuitive insight and as we learn to trust that intuitive insight more and more, when the mind bombards us with thoughts of personal identity and, you see, desire and duality, then it doesn't seem that attractive and it is allowed to let go. So we rest in that state which is the fruit of the hearing and the contemplation, you see.

So, what are the Sanskrit terms? But so you go from the hearing of it to the contemplation of it to the just resting in yourself. And the resting in yourself is not a forced or effortful resting in yourself; it is just not taking yourself to be that which you are not because you had an intuitive insight about who you are, you see. So from whatever I have studied of Adi Shankara, this is—he has provided us with so many of these atomic pointers that we can look at, you see, and they can be used so well in our contemplation. But the point being to come to this resting in the true place, resting as a Self, to be as we are in a way. So that is the way I would look at that particular aspect of the pointing. The debating part, to be honest, even I've never understood, so I cannot help you with that, you see. Here, this expression is a bit more timid that way where if somebody wants to debate me, I'm already saying, 'No, no, you win, you're right, you're fine,' you know. So there's not so much impulse to debate or to prove anything from here as well. So that will have to refer back to Sri Shankara himself. Of course, those times were different and you realize the cultural context of that space was different. And I don't want to create any sort of Buddhism versus Vedanta debate here because I respect both paths, but some part of that cultural context will make that debating aspect also a bit clearer maybe.

And just one little doubt was about the Self. Like in one place Ramana Bhagavan says Kundalini is the Self. Most places he is referring to Self and not paying attention to that. And in one video, I think Guruji said Kundalini is child's play, like something like that. So I want some clarity on that because when we focus on Self, these sensations do come. So should it be denied or it should be appreciated that the Shiva and Shakti aspect are one, or one should be denied for the other?

Yes, it should be—in my limited view, I would have a great reverence for it, but I would never exchange it for the reference to the Self, you see. So here there is a great reverence for this experience of Kundalini. And I don't usually talk about it a lot, with Kundalini and things, because it becomes confusing to some who have not had this cultural sort of understanding of it. But here my head is bowed down to the divine energy, but not as an exchange to the Absolute. So in that way. So the context from the Absolute perspective, it is—I would agree with Guruji that it is completely child's play, but from a human perspective, it deserves our reverence. Thank you. And just to clarify a bit in terms of Bhagavan speaking about it, he has spoken about it a few times and you are aware that most of the time he was talking about the direct recognition of the Self and not to be so concerned about the energetic movement and the chakras and all of these things that happen. But for some that were going through these kind of movements, he has reassured them that in self-inquiry, in meeting ourself in this broad openness, for many it can happen that spontaneously, you see, this kind of energetic movement can happen. So those words I would take as a form of reassurance to them and saying that all is good with you, you're doing well. I would say that my advice would be to take it as the prasad of the darshan of the Self, but never to mistake it for the Self itself.

Yeah, I think like in the previous satsang you said we go for the Sat and the Ananda comes.

Exactly, exactly. Let the Ananda follow. Otherwise what can happen is when we go Ananda chasing, then Sat seems to get more and more elusive.

Right, very clearly. Thank you. Thank you.

I enjoy the freshness of your questions. It makes me feel very nice to hear you and to engage with you. Thank you. Okay, Nithya can come.

Hello, can you hear me? Yes, yes, we did. Yeah, okay. I had a little trouble last time with my audio. Good. Is my video on? No, my video is not... ah. So I just wanted to speak something out. It touched me so much when you said you just surrendered your life to the Divine and you are not concerned about the outcome. And it really struck me here because, you know, this body just immediately went into... no, really the body but not the heart, you know. The heart is truly yearning for true surrender, you know. But yes, the conditioning doesn't want that, I would say, no? And I just felt really so much just to acknowledge that and because I'm so touched, so touched, you know. And there was something happened here where we had felt that I lost you and Guruji and I was not so interested in satsang and still going on like this. I really have to say I'm not interested at all in satsang somehow. I just felt I lost you. And what I realized was that I lost this personal stuff, you know. There was so much, how do you say, so much attachment to your person and to Guruji from person, something from person to person. And this fell away and that felt like I felt so lost somehow, you know. So, and also there was so much neutrality coming and this but this somehow some I misinterpreted as I'm not interested in satsang anymore. And the mind came in, you know, and took this somehow and was nourishing the conditioning here and I grasped that, you know, without realizing what was happening.

Yes, when you said this term today it was just so yes, you know, just so so beautiful. I'm so together with you in this. I'm so together with you in this and I'm very happy to hear you. Thank you, my dear. Okay, we can go to Niranjan. Niranjan, it's working, my dear.

Hello. Hello, my dear. How are you, Father? I'm good, I'm good. I wonder why I asked this question. It's vice versa, you know, like you should ask me how I'm asking you one day. I don't mind it by the way, just to clarify. No, no, just kidding. I just want—maybe I want to share one or two things. Just, I think Uber mentioned about the Kundalini thing and maybe I want to share an experience here with those kind of movements. Actually, I'm experiencing this violent bodily shaking, you know, like if you have seen patients with generalized tonic-clonic convulsions we call epilepsy. So in that, the whole body shakes like, you know, those kind of movements. And I am experiencing this for about last six years or so. So it is not a sporadic thing, you know, so it has been pretty consistent. And it started with like when I started doing Isha Kriya five or six years back and it started with that practice, you know, after some two-three months of practice it suddenly appeared like that. And from the very beginning there was no sense of problem with those movements. So I never had like whether it's special or it's a problem. It was like I had a concerned or neutral type of attitude towards those movements. And many times I enjoyed those moments because after that violent bodily shaking and that energy episode, it felt like sort of calm and, you know, like something was washed out or something like that. And more and more, you know, I used to feel more peaceful and that kind of thing.

And these movements are still continuing many times. The only thing is that I am a little bit of, you know, I know when it happens, you know, like I can sometimes I can predict because in my contemplation when you are especially when you are touching the core identities, you know, when something is exposed like 'this is where you are attached,' right? So at those times they, you know, it's like a stimulus for those movements. And that's perhaps that's the only thing I have understood about those movements, at least in this case. And sometimes they happen by themselves. And initially I was worried whether if it happens in public space, you know, like you are in... but it has never happened like that so far. So maybe I don't know. And even if it happens like that way, there is no concern here. So I have not seen them as a problem or anything like that. But when you speak from the Absolute perspective, like you were just saying, so there are no questions like this because there is no even question of oneness, but we can use the word oneness. Like everything is the Absolute, but even that is not even, you know, that perhaps goes as close as it can go. So nothing is seen as apart from you. Everything is you and everything is yourself. Like, you know, like Papaji was asked this question by some interviewer or something, 'How do you experience the world?' and he said, 'I experience the world as myself. Like my body. You experience your nail as yourself, you experience your hair as yourself, your body is yourself. In the same way the world is myself.' But even that's for the conversation purpose. The true experience is indescribable. So we can say it is oneness and like that, but perhaps the best answer is silence, like Bhagavan used to remain silent most of the times. And maybe that's what I wanted to share about this thing.

Hey, nice. Thank you. Thank you so much, my dear. Thank you. Happy to see you. Thank you, my love. Thank you, brother. Thank you, my dear. Okay, there are a lot of questions in the chat. We'll come to Aniko in a minute. We'll just take some of the chat questions. One says, 'I feel strong palpitations from the beginning of satsang, but I am so happy and grateful for you, Guruji. Please, I would like to completely give myself to you. All my blessings, all my love, blah blah blah.' Or finger snap. Which one will you choose as the highest pointing, Father? Is it blah blah blah? No, it's something else. The highest pointing actually is... hi yo! Believe I did that on the broadcast. But then next one says, 'Father, I feel broken and do not...'

We'll just take some of the chat questions. One says, 'I feel strong palpitations from the beginning of satsang, but I am so happy and grateful for you, Guruji. Please, I would like to completely give myself to you. All my blessings, all my love, blah blah blah or finger snap—which one will you choose as the highest pointing, Father?' Is it blah blah blah? No, it's something else. The highest pointing actually is... hi yo! I believe I did that on the broadcast.

But then the next one says, 'Father, I feel broken and do not want to live anymore, and it is okay no longer knowing what to do. There is a subtle sense of a nameless love.' Okay, so if you want to come up, my dear, I'm happy to speak with you for a bit. If you want to come up, put your hand up; otherwise, we'll come back to this in a moment.

'Father, what is the greatest gift we can offer to the Master? To see what makes Master happy about his children. Shall we be able to do it or be it in order to be a great happiness in your heart?' If you give all your troubles to me, I'm the happiest. If you still leave something for you to be concerned about, then I'm not so happy, dear.

'Could you please speak about the process after awakening? By this, I mean seeing that the one who was searching for enlightenment can never ever become it, because it was the mind who was searching, yes, and the person merely a mirage made out of thoughts in the mind. I would very much appreciate this.' You said it. You said it. So, 'Could you please speak about the process after awakening? By this, I mean seeing that the one who was searching for enlightenment can never ever become it, because it was the mind who was searching, yes, and the person merely a mirage made out of thoughts in the mind. I would very much appreciate this.' Well, I am happy to rest in your statement, actually. It's very beautiful. It's very good. If something else comes to add on in a bit, maybe I can, but for now, this seems good enough.

Father, I've heard a Zen koan where they, in the middle of the conversation, used to instantly ask their disciples, 'What is this?' There's also a brand of Korean Zen where you sit in front of a white wall with nothing to excite the senses and you're constantly asking yourself, 'What is this?' And, you know, that was the extent of spiritual instruction. Then students would do this for ten, twenty, thirty years, just sitting in front of a white wall asking, 'What is this?' And I'm pretty sure what used to happen when they would go to the Master with the answer, if they felt they figured out an answer, Masters would employ the Zen stick quite effectively, I'm sure.

Then the next one said, 'Dear Ananta, answering your question: Can the Self be hurt or attacked? I feel a pull into personhood and I cannot say no. If I change all the "you's" in the question of the invitation with "God," all the answers are clear. But when I ask "Am I?" then I cannot answer a question like "Can it be hurt?" with "Yes," which indicates that it is not clear that I am all that God is.' Okay, so I want to meet further. Maybe you can put your hand up and we can speak a bit about this. In the meanwhile, let me go to the hands which I already have. So first Aniko and then Helen.

Thank you very much. This question is here with me for a long time and I really wanted to ask you, but there was not enough courage, I think. But now you were talking about this kind of energies and it is related to that. So actually, there is a lot to the energies. It's related to the energies, yes, yes, yes. From the time I went to Tiruvannamalai, it was the last year—it is, yeah, last year in January—some physical symptoms started to arise in my body and actually I'm a bit worried about them. As you say, in my culture it is not really like a usual thing, and also I think if anybody could see me, maybe they would lock me in a hospital, in the mental hospital actually. Sometimes very wide, and it is not like a human thing, like very wide, like animal things coming out from me. It's like a dragon exhaling, and sometimes it's contraction. Sometimes my head is very wide and there is sometimes when I'm shouting, this voice is coming very wide out, or sometimes like an evil laugh. At the same time, I can see when it's happening, it seems it is not happening to me. This is just happening with my body and I am not even there. At that time, I'm not even worried about it because this is so silly to say, but it's like naturally happening, something inside. But after, I start to think, 'Oh my God, what if anybody in my family, my brother or somebody else would see?' And really, it is never happening in a public place either, in here. So it usually just happens when I am really relaxed or in peace. Or even sometimes I'm going in like a position with my body, it's like, to tell you, it's like very... sometime really... So yes, this is the question: how long this can be called normal or not normal? So thank you for the answer, and I know you've seen me much more than I can see myself and I trust you so much. Thank you for the answer.

Thank you. Thank you for this and thank you for the courage to expose this openly and to share openly. Thank you for that. So this is very good news, you see. And that very good news is the reason why I don't speak so much about energy, no? Because what happens is that when we speak so much about energy, then there are many topics that can be covered about energy. We can talk about transmission, we can talk about transference, you can talk about energetic afflictions, you can talk about energetic awakenings, you can talk about many, many energetic things, you see. But then that in a way takes us away from the directness of what is being shared here, and that is where the good news comes in.

So the good news is that as you are coming to deeper and deeper recognition of your own Self, everything that needs to stabilize and come to some sort of normalcy in terms of energy also is taken care of just normally, you see. So what can happen is that you can visit some very energetically charged places and a lot of energetic movement can happen, you see. But I'm very happy that you're in satsang because in satsang you're being pointed directly to your highest truth, you see. And as you're coming to your highest truth, it is not that in the light of that highest truth any energetic settling that needs to happen, you see, will not happen. Everything will be taken care of. Everything will be taken care of.

So rather than trying to intellectually understand, 'So what is it that happened to me? Why is it? Is it good? Is it bad?'—you see, and I realize what you say, that in some cultures it can seem very strange and difficult to explain to people—but in satsang in India, satsang is a very safe space where all this expression can happen. As long as it's not too distracting to everyone else attending satsang, it's... I'm quite open about all of this coming to some sort of settling very normally in satsang itself. But the advice I would give you is that you keep your focus and value on where I'm pointing to you as the highest, you see, and you let me take care of the rest of it. The assimilation of whatever needs to be assimilated in the energetic realm, you let that be my problem. You remain with me in terms of where I'm pointing to you.

Because otherwise, that whole topic can become a subject of many lifetimes, you see. That whole topic of energy and the movements and the intricacies of this chakra and that chakra, and whether this is authentic Kundalini or it's another form of energetic affliction—all of that can become very, very confusing and it can take up a long, long time to try and get to the bottom of it. When Bhagavan, with Guruji's grace, has brought to us that which is the highest in the most direct way, then you don't have to worry about that. With the reassurance, of course, that all this will settle on its own. And in the satsang, I've seen that over the years many have had these kind of things and they're being assimilated very naturally in the most beautiful way, you see, without us being so dissecting about it, saying, 'What is going on? Why is this?'

Thank you very much. It's really very helpful because sometimes I can see the person in here, sometimes it's so much fear from this kind of very wide and strange things, and sometimes it's so amused and, 'Oh my God, this can lead me somewhere,' and I focus really much on it and I thought, 'Oh, it's so beautiful.' Sometimes it's really beautiful and I really can get lost in this kind of game. So yes, thank you very much. I really understand your pointings and I'm so grateful to be here with you, really. I cannot say how much I'm grateful to be here always in your satsangs and just melt in your grace. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, my love. Thank you. Okay, and Helen can come.

Hello. Ah, did you mute yourself again? Oh, let me see. Yeah, let me try. Yes, yes, I hear you now. Hear me now? Um, yes. Hello, Father. It took me... my heart is beating fast too. And the message of... yeah, just take your time, just relax. It's all good. Nothing has worked. Not the great spiritual expectation of the journey of...

Did you say nothing has worked?

Nothing has worked. Nothing has worked. Nothing has worked.

So it has worked! So nothing has worked—that's a great testimonial. Nothing has finally worked. Brilliant!

Thank you. That's all you needed to say. Thank you, Father. That's so nice. Yes, in my heart I'm with you. Thank you so much.

Oh yes, it's very good, very good. I love that. I know. I love you so much for helping me with clarity and breaking through the fog. Thank you. Very good. Hey, good. The shortest, short and sweet. Thank you, my love. Thank you. Okay, Helena can come after Helen. Wow, that's nice.

Hello. I don't... yes, yes, I hear you now. Yeah, okay. Thank you for inviting me to come up. Yet, we last time we talked and you asked, 'Can the Self be hurt?' and I still feel when I do the invitation, I feel a pull of the personhood of the mind that says, 'Yes, I can be hurt.' So, because I do feel hurt and it comes up once in a while and it kind of comes like a veil over my seeing during the day and I respond from that hurt and...

So can I help you a bit? Can I help you? We can do this together so that what I am saying and what you are saying, we can get on the same page in this way. So you said correctly that during the invitation there is a great pull from the mind which says, 'Yes, I can be hurt,' you see. Now, so that pull is the pull of this thought, this energy construct that we call a thought, you see, which is, like Guruji says, auditioning for your attention and your belief, you see. Which comes and says, 'But yes, I can be hurt because, you know, yesterday this one said this to me and I was hurt, so yes I can,' you see. So that is the way the mind will try to play with this.

But what is really being asked is, like when I ask you the question, I mean to really look at this and say: the witnessing of this perception, whatever the content of the perception may be, can that witnessing be hurt by it? You see? And we don't have to go to any learnt knowledge for this. We can try this out live right now, you see. So there is a witnessing of this perception of this voice, you see. Now suppose that uncharacteristically this voice suddenly became very rude, very rude to you, you know. Would the witnessing be hurt by that?

I cannot confirm that. I, like I wrote to you, when I would put in all the questions, I would put 'God' instead of 'you,' then everything would be true because I would say a God cannot be hurt. But when I say, 'Can I be hurt?' so that...

Yeah, and I understand what you're saying. So let me try to meet you from there. God cannot be hurt? Yes. Now, where is God? Not everywhere? Or is it God plus me? God is everywhere, but me? Is it like there is only God? And if God cannot be hurt, then you cannot be hurt because you... if you are... you see, and even if you are an independent entity...

In all the questions, I would put God instead of 'you,' then everything would be true. Because I would say, 'God cannot be hurt.' But when I say, 'Can I be hurt?' so that—

Yeah, and I understand what you're saying. So let me try to meet you from there. God cannot be hurt? Yes, yes. Now, where is God not? Everywhere? Or is it God plus me? God is everywhere, but me? Is it like there is only God? And if God cannot be hurt, then you cannot be hurt because you are You, you see. And even if you are an independent entity, which you are not, you see, but even if you were to suppose that you are, actually you must be living in the heart of God itself. And if God cannot be hurt, then you cannot be hurt, you see. Otherwise, our claim is that there is God and He cannot be hurt, but you know, where 'me' is or where 'I' am, that is not God; therefore, I can be hurt.

Yeah, I feel it like that. Yeah. And more than feel, I would say we are designed to think it like that. So how do I drop that? Because that 'me'—how can I drop that? Because there are so many hurts attached to that 'me'.

Yes, yes, yes. There are two ways prescribed by Guruji to drop this. So, one is to inquire into the true nature of this 'me.' Who am I? Inquiring into the true nature of this 'me,' ask yourself: Who am I? That which can be hurt, that which can be affected—where is that one, you see? So, that which desires something, that which wants to be free, whatever the thought pattern which seems to get to you, pull that into your inquiry, you see, and say, 'Who is this I?' So that can be the inquiry. And in the inquiry, you will come to a point where you will say, 'Who is witnessing this thought?' you see, because the thought will present itself as an answer to who you are. And what you have to do is ask yourself: What witnesses that thought? What witnesses that? And in your inquiry, you will come to an insight about yourself which will merge all ideas of duality between you and God. All this idea of distinction will get merged. So, self-inquiry is the first way.

Then surrender, for those who don't feel like they are temperamentally feeling to do the inquiry so much. There is a path called surrender, which means that if you feel devoted to a higher power of any sort, whether you call it God or Guru, whatever term you may use, surrender would mean that we say that all is left for you to take care of. God, it is Your problem. And if You are the doer, then You are the experiencer as well, because there cannot be a division between the doer and the experiencer. So You, the doer, are the experiencer. And in that surrender, this idea of 'me'—when the idea of doer and experiencer both are taken out of it—then you see that there is only God, there is only the reality of the Self. So, whatever appeals to you the most. And it can be from time to time; sometimes we feel like inquiring more, sometimes you just want to let go more and surrender more. So that can be done in this way. These are the two main pointings to let go of this individual 'me.'

And of course, you're doing the Invitation, and you can continue to do that. That is a very, very potent, very direct way to drop this 'me,' you see. One tip I can give you for the Invitation is that just do it with a sense of pure simplicity. You don't have to figure out anything, you see. Let Guruji do the Invitation for you. Your job is just to put it on, you see. Then whatever response has to come, you don't have to think about it and say, 'Yes, yes, because you know, God is like this, but I am...' You don't have to use any of that effort. Just, you have put it on. Now Guruji's words are taking us through it, and Guruji is putting words in our mouth to respond as well. So do it in a very open, very effortless way, and that may make it very much simpler. Okay?

I will. Thank you very much.

Welcome back, always welcome. Thank you, thank you. Very good. So those whose questions have been answered, you can just put your hands down; makes it easier for me. I'll just refer to the chat for a few moments and come back. One says, 'It feels a bit like location. I have lost the location to that reference.' Sorry, my dear, you can remind me of what that is about. The next one says, 'I surrender. I surrender the mistrust towards peers and any fearful or conflictive tendencies. I would like to forget myself.' You see, but if you remember that 'I would like to forget myself,' then you can't forget yourself. Just let go of all notions, all conditions, all remembering, all forgetting. Just open and empty. Open and empty.

Thanks to online, we are able to reach Master face to face and clear our doubts and experience. You're very welcome, my dear, very welcome.

Then next one says, 'Father, is the mind and thought process completely unreliable?' No, for the fault, it is very reliable, but for the truth, it is completely unreliable. Just as the weighing scale is unreliable to try and measure space, you see. Then one says, 'I always have trouble with the asana.' Thank you, thank you. Okay. 'Pranam Guruji, a blind spot, need your guidance. Even in waking state, being aware, there is awareness of everything. Yes. So there is probably mind which concludes in deep sleep when there is no sense to be even aware to report, one only is able to know even awareness due to the mind faculty.' Okay.

So how do you know that there is nothing in deep sleep? We are all able to report, no? That in deep sleep there is nothing, not even awareness, you see. And I say, 'Promise?' 'Yes, yes, I promise you, not even awareness is there,' you see. What witnesses that not even awareness is there? Some witnessing must be present to be able to say, 'Hey, the wall was white and suddenly it all just completely went away.' Forget about it being black; it just completely vanished, you see. So without that contrast, you see that—or that contrast, that change—that this whole vibrant universe is here and suddenly I fall asleep. Of course, this reporting infrastructure, as I call it, is available only in the waking state. The ability to conceptualize into nothing or something is present only in the waking state. But that direct insight—for that direct insight that there is nothing there, you must have been there as what? If there is nothing and yet you remain, therefore then that nothing must be you, you see. But you don't have to make inferences out of these. Rest on your insights about them.

One says, 'Master, recognizing Self is not so difficult. Why journey to it is so?' Yes, because the letting go of everything that we are so right about, that is difficult. The recognition is not even two clicks, not even one click. The recognition is just before the click, you see. But the journey is because we are right about so many things, you see. So dropping the self-righteousness, dropping our conceptual ideas of everything about ourselves and the world, that seems to take time. That is the conditioning that Bhagavan is talking about when he says that to come to Atma Gyan, all you have to do is let go of ignorance, you see. It is—self-knowledge itself is not an attainment. It is not something that you will get, you see. It is only to that letting go of ignorance. And what is ignorance? The idea that 'I am something,' the idea of my limited self—that is ignorance.

Next one says, 'So divine in your presence. Sorry for asking again.' You're very welcome, my dear, thank you. 'Whenever there is silence, there is sound in the ear. It pulls within. Is it a phenomenon like shakti or this nad is Self itself?' You don't have to understand it, you see. I don't have to understand it. In your heart, you know. Don't try to pull heart knowledge into the head because it will make it into something, and that will be the rising of spiritual ego, the rising of specialness, or the arising of some idea of some trouble somewhere, you see. So when you try to translate heart knowledge into mind knowledge, it only leads to trouble. But I'll be honest, and I'm going to tell you that there's no trouble.

One says, 'Being aware of being aware in meditative state is blissful, otherwise not.' So blissful, but bliss can come and go, you see. Satsang is truth for truth's sake, not for bliss' sake, you see. If you keep your eyes on bliss, then truth will seem to be ungraspable. If you keep your eyes on the truth, metaphorically speaking, then bliss is not so much of a problem. It can come, it can go. It is the contrast which makes it fun anyway. Okay.

Next one says, 'I'm feeling like a press conference now.' Okay, maybe last few questions. Thank you. 'It seems that the mind wants to recognize the Self, and it seems that want means mind.' You see, want, desire is mind, you see. Then you say, 'And it seems that it does sometimes.' Well, it's okay, but it is recognized that only the Self recognizes itself. 'So the compulsive seeking in the mind realm continues out of habit, it seems. Yes, the seeker wants to find but only creates more mess.' Yes, yes, yes. 'And Self remains untouched.' Thank you so much. Yes, very welcome, my dear. So you've recognized the tricks of the mind very well. You spotted them. But once we spot them, we don't have to continue to be very enamored by the sneakiness of the mind, you see. Because many times what happens is once we start spotting the tricks of the mind, the mind can use that itself and say, 'Oh, the mind is so tricky, you see. Look at how sneaky, look at what it's doing now, look at...' you see. So it can be fun for a little bit, but once you recognize it as sneaky, then don't constantly worry about all the mind tricks. It's okay. You've seen one, you've seen them all. So you can let them come and go. Then it won't have the ability to—as Bhagavan said, no?—the mind, the thief itself, dresses up as a policeman pretending to catch the thief. Many times it can play in that way as well. So, okay, I'm not reading everything out loud now, I'm just reading everything. Okay, some hands are still up.

Hello, happy to be here with you again. And yes, you said something that, 'If you give up all your concerns to me, then I'm happy.' And there is one thing here, and maybe it's good that I may little bit open up because it's just one thing is still here and something is continuously touching it. So it's very alive and it didn't go by itself. And it's like there is a battling within me and it's just so present throughout.

Meddling? Did you say meddling?

Battling. Battling.

Okay, okay. No, no, it's okay.

In, yeah, like I don't know how to express it, but yes, there is a—like this one, it was not so evolved, maybe speak so directly or something. Not with you, actually, I feel like I'm just so good with you, but in general. And yeah, like always holding the words back and you know, like this, it was used to, and not so outspoken also. And it has caused too much suppression, of course. And yeah, it's just too much. It gives too much trouble within me, you know? And I cannot get out of it and get out from it, however. And yes, for now, I don't know if I can add something more to you or not.

Are you saying that you're not giving this concern to me?

No, I want to, and I choose to give now because it's enough. And actually, it just takes too much attention unnecessarily, and I don't want to really be on that field anymore. I want to give and save all my attention on myself now.

So if you allow me to be concerned about it, will you also continue to be concerned about it?

I may do so.

No, you may not do so, because it's not that great that it deserves both our concern. So if you give it to me, then it's my concern, but it doesn't deserve two concerns.

Okay. Maybe I may add something and then I can finish with my concern. We can finish with it and it's maybe yours. And it's about completely doing, you know? It's like I feel like I will be the one who speaks, I will be the one who will do. So it's like, yeah, I have to decide to do. And so this doer is just so present and I want to speak—

Are you saying that this concern about the doer, you're not—

Concerned. So if you give it to me, then it's my concern, but it doesn't deserve two concerns. Okay, so maybe I may add something and then I can finish with my concern. We can finish with it, and it's maybe yours. And it's about completely doing, you know? It's like I feel like I will be the one who speaks, I will be the one who will do. So, um, it's like, yeah, I have to decide to do, and so this doer is just so present and I want to speak.

Are you saying that this concern about the doer you're not giving to me?

No, I just speak it out and it's yours.

Good, I got it now. Don't take it back, please. Is it going to be a thirty-second surrender? Many times what happens is we do a thirty-second surrender: 'I give it all to you' and then the time is ticking—one, two, three, four, you see—and then we are quick to take it back. You see, satsang is over now, now it's mine again. Is it like that?

It shouldn't, it won't be like this, no. And you could have said, actually, you could have got me in trouble by saying even that is your problem.

I couldn't understand.

I said you could have said, actually, that even that—whether it is thirty seconds surrender or full surrender—is okay. Beautiful. Okay, I'm just so happy that finally I can come to this point, so thank you.

Just this: just remember, don't be concerned about any points that you've come to. I want all of it. You know that, right? I want all that. Okay? All your points, this point, that point where you come to—all of this, let it be mine, okay? Eat them up. I can do what I want with them. That's also my concern. No, no, no, that's why, and I was just making a joke. Thank you, thank you. Good, good girl. Okay, last hand for the day. Lawrence wants to come back, so we begin and end with Lawrence today. Thank you.

If it's not too much to ask again, I can't see you actually.

I'm here. Hello, yes, yes.

Um, it's because of so many things that came up through this one and this one and this one about energy and um, there is this need of clarification on this one thing. Uh, I would like to hear guidance if it's postponement or if it's... let me try to explain because this is good. Yes, it's got to do with possible conflict, internal conflict between a direct way and indirect way. This one is here for complete days of rendering and um, the activity that I had, I say I still have but it's gone to almost nothing, has got to do with an indirect way. I don't know if it's necessary to explain, but it's like um, I call that soul tuner. It's harmonizing body, mind, and soul to the natural nature through different tools. That, and then there is energy. So this body is a channel of energies and as this woman explains, sometimes it comes out with very strong verbs and whatever. And lately there has been this calling to take another like class on channeling, but there is also this questioning inside: is this slowing me down? Because why is this activity going to nothing? What is being truly asked? Am I postponing something? I must say I can't see. I keep compromising with it, saying it is seen from the absolute place, so it's just a way of... I just don't know. Okay, what can you say?

Something? I can't hear you. I'm just starting to speak. Okay, so I hope it's audible now. Yes? So, most important, most important is to determine who you are now. Can we make a deal and say once you determine who you are, you see, once you come to self-realization, then we can determine what you should do or not do? You see, because till it is clear about who you are, you may be solving somebody else's problems. Sometimes I say like this, no, that if you think that you're a cat and you've been trying to solve cat problems, but it actually turns out that you're a giraffe, you see, then it's just going to be a huge waste of time having solved all those cat problems, isn't it? So which way to go, what I should do, which wall I should climb, you see, all depends on who you are, no? You see, because somebody comes and says to you, for example, they ask you for advice and they say, 'Please, can you tell me what I should do?' You see, you will say, 'Okay, tell me a little bit about yourself. Are you a student? Are you in college? Are you in a job? Do you want relationship advice? Do you want to talk about the health of the body?' So you're looking for context in terms of who they are before you can tell them what to do, isn't it?

Actually, this is not the way it works because I use... it's like I've got tools.

No, no, not in your process. I'm saying generally, if somebody comes to a coffee shop and says to you, 'Can you tell me what I should do?' you see, then this is a regular conversation if you meet somebody in the world, not in a spiritual context or not in the other healing modalities or whatever else you may be working on. Okay, throw that metaphor away. So what I meant is that before we can determine what is the best path, whether left or right, you must determine where you are and who you are first, isn't it?

Yes.

So the path to surrender, as you said, is a very direct path to let go of everything. And as you surrender, what you are becomes completely apparent to you, you see? So what happens is that this waking state is very unreliable. You see, we don't know how much of it is going to show up again, how much of the waking state will continue to show up. We can never be clear about that, isn't it? So now, my advice to follow the direct path is because the waking state is so unreliable and we don't know how much of it is left to show up, you see? So use whatever is left first to come to true self-knowledge, to come to self-realization, you see? And then however the functioning of that individual body-mind, that aspect of consciousness, has to play out, that can play out based on the will of that which you have discovered yourself to be, actually. The trouble with the indirect path is... it's fine, it's fine, it's the play of consciousness, it can keep playing in whichever way, but it's truly what it is.

It is clear to me. I think it is clear to me who I am. So it's also seen that this calling for channeling and following this course is part of the dynamic play. But the thing is that it's... I'm not sure why.

Can we pause? Can we pause there just a moment? And you won't mind me being very direct about this, but that which you are, does that have this confusion? No. Then whose problem are we solving? You see, because once you say that 'I feel it's clear to me what I am'—and I'm not disputing that in any way—I'm just saying that then live from that highest clarity about yourself, you see? Because there is nobody else. You see, there is a recognition about who you are. Be authentic to that recognition about who you are and tell me what is there to solve? It is still the doer posture that is just a mind posture that your being itself takes. Once you spot that, you can drop that, isn't it? The discovery that it is still the doer playing out is not meant to feed you more calories of personhood, which could be, 'Oh, I'm still playing with the doer, I have to really drop that.' You see, then that becomes more and more of the same game of doership and duality. You see, all you can do is you notice, you saw that it is still that same game, boom, gone.

Yeah, but then I get caught up by the... with something you said that hit right in the spot. There's something in these guise... of course I've missed the word... guise. Then I get caught up by that laziness. I leave it, I just don't take any actions to attract more people and I follow this course in having the consciousness that it's just a dynamic thing, but then it still manages to catch attention somehow.

And that's okay. That's part of the play. Nobody is one hundred percent over conditioning. Nobody. Even the highest masters are not one hundred percent over the conditioning. You see, even in our tradition, we believe that the Lord himself has come down to help humanity on occasion, you see? And even when the Lord takes form, he's got caught up in the conditioning. So don't have this one hundred percent idea because that is just a setup for failure. So it happened, you spotted it, you're free in this moment. That is more than enough, okay? And the idea is not to beat yourself up about it. The idea is not to say this should stop for me permanently. Permanently is just another idea which is in time, you see? It does not apply to your reality.

Yes, I leave it all at your feet. Thank you. And the one, the surrender. Thank you so much, love.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. There are still many questions in the chat, but what I'm going to do is I'm going to read them while we play the bhajans, but I may not have the energy to answer all of them today. I hope you will forgive me for that. And if there's something really strong, we are back again same time, same place next week. Even Monday, not even next Friday, we are back Monday. What request? What should we play? Okay, just... some of you are super traditional and things, and so this will come as a shock to me to be honest. Having known Shivali for a few years, to see this avatar of Shivali came as a bit of shock to me as well. So we are in the joint shock together, but it is great fun and just take it in that spirit. Yes, zero baby, only zero works. Don't compromise. If I say zero, it's enough baby, only zero. Nothing is nothing. It's nothing whose time has come to be the sun, to be the sun. Only zero works. Single baby, no. Oh God, I'll use the chat messages. Hey, still laughing. Oh yeah, yeah today. Ready. Hello. People. Namaste. Namaste. Oh boy. Shine. Okay, you want to see the room? So this is Jyotima's house. Let's see. And Guruji has also visited here. In this building, they have become like a mini ashram. This is only one who has dropped all her masks. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Guru.