Truth for Truth's Sake - 18th January 2021

Yeah, I really feel like, yeah, I feel like this, uh, I forget, I forget the story you used to tell us about the, is it, was it the thousand-dollar man that used to run around and...

Yeah, could you repeat that? Yes, yes, that may be a good way to start satsang. Many of you heard it, but let me see what comes up now. So in the Yoga Vashistha, there's this beautiful story of the thousand-handed monster. So this thousand-handed monster has a weapon in each hand and this monster is in great suffering because with the weapon, the monster is hitting himself. So what happens is that, uh, huge misery, huge suffering. Then what happens is one day roaming around in the forest, he comes across a sage and the sage says to the monster, you see, the monster says to the sage, "Please help me, I'm in so much suffering. Can you please help?" And the sage says, "Who are you?" So what happens after the sage says "Who are you?" is one by one each of the hands starts falling off and this monster stops hurting itself now and is free and happy.

But what happens is in another version of the story or another parallel universe, same thousand-handed monster goes to the sage and says, sage says, "Who are you?" and monster says, "Why are you troubling me? Can't you see I'm already in pain? Don't ask me these kind of questions," you see. So, so that's what happens. Some suffering makes us open sometimes and when a question like this, "Who are you?" comes in our presence, then this monster which is the monster of the mind, you see, lets go of all of these conditions, lets go of all of its tendencies and comes to the end of suffering. But it doesn't always work that way because many times this kind of question can seem like an attack, you see. Even for those who have been in satsang for many years, in the midst of suffering, if we go, or sometimes I've, this happened here where I've said, "But who are you?" and it's met with a lot of resistance, you see. So I took a lot of resistance where it's like, "Oh Ananta, I knew you're going to say that, that's why I didn't want to ask you. I knew you're going to say who," you see.

So it's, you know, in a way saying, "What else? What else do you have? Because who, I think, is not working for me anymore," which is actually not possible, you see. Because all suffering can only belong to the made-up version of ourselves; it can never belong to our reality, you see. So who you really are cannot really suffer because what you really are is beyond time and space, is beyond the manifest and unmanifest. So this notion of suffering only belongs to the one that has a story, that has a narrative, that has a timeline. So "Who?" is the master key that can unlock all of these thousand hands and bring them to the ground, make them into nothing. But we notice that in the midst of suffering, many times we don't want to ask "Who?" We just are happy to try to find resolution to the problems in themselves, you see. But the thing is, in reality, there is no such thing as a problem. So then it becomes an intellectual exercise and sometimes we find some notional band-aid to our notional problems and it can provide some momentary seeming respite. But what happens is that we continue to struggle in this way with ups and downs, with our backs back and forth. So that is the story of the thousand-handed monster. In what, in what context were you remembering it?

Well, I feel like for me there's, there's been so much going on in my life but yeah, I, I feel like I can really never commit to anything fully because there always seems to be, I always just stop and I'm asking myself, "Who is aware of this?" and "Who is aware of this awareness?" Yeah, and just everything seems pointless. Everything that I'm doing seems pointless, totally pointless. But yeah, I, you know, since I was in Bangalore, I've spent pretty much every day doing a lot of breath work, a lot of yoga, a lot of different practices and it never seems to get me anywhere. Yeah, it seems to, the breath work will change my, I can feel down and it can kind of liven me up, yeah. And it's made me super, super sensitive. So sometimes when I have meetings, I can go into this whole flight or fight situation and I'm just so sensitive to different energies and I try and bring myself back as much as possible, but I just don't know what to do. I just seem to end up in the back plate, in the same place all the time and I just, I'm just sick. I'm just totally, I just don't know where to go. I just don't know where to run to and I try and rest as much. I sit and I do my meditation every day and I sit still for an hour or two hours or three hours and there's just nowhere to go and all this energy comes into my system and I just, I just try and I'm always expecting fireworks. I'm always expecting there to be some kind of end result and, you know, although things in my life seems to get easier, lightness seems to come, I'm just in the same place all the time, yeah. And I just don't know what to do, yeah.

Okay, so thank you. Thank you for that report. Uh, you said, uh, some similar things. You said that, uh, "I don't get the point, it all seems so pointless at times," and also you said that, "I don't seem to be getting anywhere." And in spite of doing all the practices and the inquiry and the breath work and everything that you're doing, it seems like it is pointless or meaningless, you see. Now, why must it have a meaning?

I have no idea. It's an expectation of trying to get somewhere or, yeah, you know, there's a lot as well, there's a lot of accompanying body pain. There's a lot of tension on, so much tension in my head and my neck and my shoulders and I'm always feeling like, "When is this going to be over? When is it going to end?" But I don't even know where I'm trying to get to, yeah.

Yeah, yes. And that is the bane of the spiritual seeker as opposed to the material seeker, you see. At least for a material seeker, what happens is you say, "Oh, I want this car," and of course once you get the car then you want another car or something else, you see. But at least it is clear temporarily in their mind that this is what I really want, you see. Now, spiritual seeking is a bit of a strange thing where we say, "I want the Self," you see. And somebody says, "But where could this Self be? If there is such a thing as a Self, then we say it must be right here," you see. Now, uh, that apparent discovery of what is already here, because it is not a mental discovery, does not seem to satisfy the mind, you see. So you said you ask yourself, "Are you aware now?" or a similar question. What is it that you're inquiring with?

What do you mean, what is it I'm inquiring with?

You said you used a question about awareness, no? What was the question you're using?

Am I aware? Am I aware? Yes.

Yes, that's good. "I'm aware of this awareness. Who is aware of this awareness?" Yes, exactly. Very beautiful, very beautiful actually. So, uh, what happens when you ask yourself or you hear from my mouth, "Are you aware now?"

There's just like a, an expansion that's just there.

But even if there wasn't expansion and in some case if there was a contraction, you see, expansion or contraction is respective of either of them. Would the answer change? Let's say that again. Would the answer change if there was a contraction versus an expansion now?

No.

And this awareness, is it something that belongs to you now? Is there any separation between yourself and this awareness?

No.

So as you are this awareness, as you are confirming now, what expectations do you have?

No expectations.

Yes, you see. So what happens is that the mind says, "Now that you have had this insight about awareness, how has it helped your life? When will you come to the end of this spiritual journey? Are you done?" And I remember my mind telling me this many times, you see. After great meditative experiences, it would come to me and say, "Okay, very good. Are you done? Does this mean you're done? When will this get over?" you see. But it had nothing again to do with my reality. It was again the mask that I would put on, isn't it? Suppose that you could not make use of this awareness in any way—you meaning the ego or the person could not make use of this awareness in any way—and awareness is just is, aware, that's all. Would it still be worth it or not? And worth it from which perspective? You see, worth it from the perspective of you're no longer living a lie about who you are. Worth it only from the perspective of the truth, you see. So is the truth worth it in itself or does it have to give something to the non-existent false for it to be worthwhile as the truth, you see? And so that's why when I say "Truth for truth's sake," that is where this comes in. Because otherwise we keep hoping that as we are coming to the discovery of this truth, the one that is untrue—that is the identification with the body-mind—that should come to some sort of progress or some improvement, you see. But there is no deal like that between the truth and untruth, you see. So the "me" cannot make use of awareness for any sort of benefit because the "me" is the untruth; awareness is the only truth. Now, whatever may be the condition of the world—and the world includes the body-mind—in what way are you as your reality hampered by, touched by, dented by it, you see? In what way does something mean something for awareness? Is it either meaningful or meaningless? Now the mind can take two positions, you see. The first position is, "But, but, but, but, but." The second position is, "Oh good, good, good, good, good. Let's hold on to this and keep it this way and try to stay like this because this is how you'll really get somewhere." Both of those positions can be discarded.

I feel my whole body shaking. There's so much energy, yeah, rinsing through my system. I'm just finding it, yeah, it's so difficult to just...

You don't have to resist that, you see. You don't have to even work with it. In a way it can play out, you see. The nature of the body is to, um, to enable these energetic movements to happen in one way or the other. But, but your reality, is that difficult to recognize when this body seems to be full of energetic movement now? And does your reality want to change something about the state of the body?

No.

So who has trouble with it? And these are all innocent movements. It doesn't matter, no. They can innocently come to a level of stability in one way or the other or they can dance around for a long time. As long as you are not confusing yourself to be the non-existent made-up entity, it doesn't really... you're not judging yourself based on the movements of the body.

So with, with these practices as well, Father, is it, is it needed?

Well, practices could be needed for the health of the body or even peace of mind, you see. Sometimes some practices can make the nature of the mind a little open, a little less shaky. But no practice is needed for that which does not have an attribute or quality because you cannot practice that. So the practice could be helpful at the level at which it is done. So it is helpful at the level of the body, it is helpful at the level of the mind, it may be even helpful at the level of trying to contain or control attention, you see. These are the levels at which practices can happen. So they can only work on those levels. But a practice is not for your reality, is not for the Absolute, you see. It is your reality is that in which this entire waking state and all of its objects and events wake up, you see. How will you practice that one?

And this, and just another one, with this tension in the body, is it, is it best to explore it or is it best just to, you know, because I, is it...

The level of trying to contain or control attention, you see, these are the levels at which practices can happen. So they can only work on those levels. But a practice is not for your reality; it is not for the Absolute, you see. Your reality is that in which this entire waking state and all of its objects and events wake up, you see. How will you practice that one?

And just another one with this tension in the body. Is it best to explore it or is it best just to, you know—is it best to go into it, to do the meditation and to feel it and to let it go? Or is it best just to, you know, is the Vipassana style of meditation needed, or is it just to sit as awareness?

Yeah, so to remain as awareness only means that you don't take yourself to be that which you are not, you see. Now, as far as practice goes, and the kind of practice that I would advise if they felt a reason to do some practice, I would say that non-judgmental attention, you see, non-judgmental attention is a very healing sort of practice. What that means is that you don't start off by calling attention; you don't start off also with the expectation that it must go, you see. Something is asking for your attention; attention stays, you see. But if we have a sense that, 'Oh, I am working with this only so that this can go,' you see, then what happens is that that can be a contradiction. Because with our attention it may be just fading away, but with our expectation it may be getting more energized, you see, and therefore it seems to many times stick around.

So if you can truly from the heart allow it to stick around for as long as it likes, because you know what? You have an infinite space, you see. It is within your infinite space does this infinite universe show up. So a few energetic constrictions, as you may call them, do not really take up that much space as we end up thinking they do, you see. Because if you were to compare—and you can use if there's something right now and see—look at the extent of that and compare it with your entire being. How much of your space is it taking? Very, very tiny bit. Very, very tiny. Not even a grain of sand, because you have no boundary, you see.

You see, so what happens is just like the room does not object to which furniture comes into the room, you are that spaciousness in which this space is born. So how can that space object to what is coming in this tiny space within you? You see, it is only because we may have an idea that this is problematic and this must go, you see, and we may have fixed an idea about progress or something based on the going of this. So perceive. Don't hide away or don't repress anything. Don't push anything away. Perceive anything, but let it be pure perception without labeling.

I'm going to give you one more tip as well. So we just talked about 'Are you aware now?' and intuitively that answer is clear to all of us, you see. But in our minds it's completely unclear because the mind will say, 'But I saw nothing,' you see. The mind may even beat you up and say, 'Why are you faking it? You didn't see anything,' you see. It may even play like that. But in your heart it is clear to you intuitively that you are aware, you see.

So the good news about this intuition is that whatever guidance you need—so not only is it the source for self-recognition, you see, it can also give you whatever guidance is needed for the playing of this manifest life, you see. And the external master is useful only to the extent that he is an instrument or she is an instrument for this intuitive presence who maybe we have not yet learned to fully trust, you see. So how to access this intuitive presence? That is the simplest, you see. As you let go of the false, the ignorant mind, you see, as you let go of false knowledge, you have already accessed your intuition. So all we need to learn how to do is to trust that, you see.

So let's see if you can meet here. So, are you aware now? Where does the confirmation for 'yes,' where is that apparent? Where is that clear? Awareness is always self-aware. Awareness is always aware of itself and it cannot change. Nothing changes ever for awareness, isn't it? Nothing has ever changed for awareness. So when we say the recognition or the shift away from the head to self-knowledge, we access the aspect of being which is the intuitive aspect of our being. There, the truth of our very existence and that which is prior to existence is simply revealed. And not only is the truth of our reality simply revealed, also whatever intelligence is needed for the functioning of this world is available, you see. So it is not that as we let go of our mind we are left helpless or something like that. Our divine presence is always supporting us.

Thank you so much, Father.

So welcome, my dear. And you're so welcome to come up like this anytime, you know. And it's very good. It's very good if you can talk like this often. Yeah, I love you too. Thank you. Thank you. Good, good, good, my dear. Okay, next Karam wants to come. You can come in, Father.

Hello, my dear. Just, I had a question to get your—I felt like I hadn't asked you a question in a while. I would like your advice on something, Father. Tomorrow I have, like, tomorrow onwards I think my break ends. I've been on right now the routine and work heavily starts again. And normally I tend to notice a pattern that when I'm going, when I'm just in the middle of so many things as a person, I become quite intolerable or insufferable to the people around me.

What do you do to them?

I won't know how to say. Impatient is a word. Stubborn is a good one. Lots of characteristics start to come up.

So you make them suffer so that they can come into Satsang, you know? It's not a bad idea, but yeah.

And inconsiderate is definitely another one. And I'd really like to not, or find a way at least to not—to see if I can stay, if I cannot go there. And how do I stay centered when things aren't like—how do I know how to not, you know? I'm sorry, my question sounds a little—

No, no, no, it's very good.

But to stay in control of myself and not be a victim of circumstances.

Yes. And have you not wanted to be in control before? Yes. So what happens is sometimes the need to control itself, you see, presses the spring so much that it has to erupt in that way. So this time you try it my way. As tomorrow onwards your work thing starts or college starts or whatever starts, so you try it my way. You try openness and emptiness, you see. Just remain as open and empty as possible. And every time you notice—you see, the moments where you don't notice and you're caught up, that is okay. About those moments, don't judge yourself. Come back to emptiness. Come back to zero, baby. So just don't worry, don't try to fix it and say, 'No, no, I shouldn't have done that.' Just immediately snap out of it, okay?

And don't judge yourself and say, 'Oh, I've been inconsiderate, I've been angry, I've been stubborn.' All these belong to somebody who doesn't exist, you see. So don't reinforce the falsity about yourself. If at all you have to reinforce something, reinforce the truth, you see. Reinforce your reality which is just so empty of all of this. So empty of all of this. Because what can happen is that again and again you will pressurize yourself otherwise to try and be a certain way, whereas life may want to open you up in many different ways. So allow that openness and emptiness to be there and you'll notice that a lot of these things like resentment, like pride, a lot of these things will not show up in your openness, in your emptiness. So instead of trying to control too much, you try to become more open, more empty.

Sorry, Father, I'm a little confused by what the difference between—I feel like I'm sort of understanding, but how is openness different than control? Because when I do remember to go back into control and openness—sorry, openness and being with the truth—doesn't that also look like control in certain ways?

It's actually very different in this way: that when we say 'I want to control,' we have drawn a box around how this expression must be, you see. 'I want to only be like this,' you see. 'If this mouth is speaking loudly, then I'm getting angry, that must not happen.' You have too many ideas around behavior and expression and maybe even the kind of thoughts that should come, the kind of emotions that should come. So at every level we are trying to determine what perception should show up in front of us, you see. And I'm including this body itself as a perception that shows up in front of us. But can we ever control that? Right now, this moment, something can come in front of you and you have no idea what it could be, isn't it?

So what real control do we have? This waking state wakes up and every moment of this waking state is completely—that which we think we are is completely powerless towards it. Only that which we actually are, all happens in accordance with that one's will, you see. But that which we think we are cannot use that for its benefit. It cannot access that cheat code and say, 'Okay, now how can I use that?' you see. It can only be let go, this idea of control, you see. Our idea of control is actually how we resist life. See, so openness is the opposite of resistance, and the ego is but another word for resistance, you see. So openness is the absence of ego. But this is the absence of an idea about what things should be like or should not be like, okay?

And we've never had any real control at all. That again, that which we think we are has never had any sort of control. When we look back at our life, most of us are very happy to admit that and say, 'Oh, I just happen to be at the right place at the right time,' or 'I just happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time,' you see. So we are happy to admit the lack of control when we look back. It is only with the future that we have trouble because we again say, 'You see.' So that would put you at the right place at the right time or the wrong place at the wrong time. That one knows what it is doing. That one is consciousness. That one is God. That one is being. So we can trust that one, that whatever it is doing, it is not here to mess me up. And if it was here to mess me up, there's nothing I could do about it anyway.

And the only way to get back with the being is through awareness, if I'm understanding correctly?

Just be open, you see. Open and empty are two words I use often. Open means anything can come; it means we don't attach to anything that comes, you see. So open and empty: anything is allowed to come, everything is allowed to go. We don't attach, we don't take positions with regards to anything. Nothing is good inherently by itself, nothing is bad inherently by itself. All is the will of the Master, Satguru. That is the simple way to remain open. That's surrendered, you see. If you're not able to remain open and empty in this simple way of surrendering, then whatever we get attached to, whatever idea we take to be true—so, 'Oh, this should not happen,' you see—then we can explore that and say, 'This should not happen for whom? Who is suffering from this? Who is the one that is here?' you see. So we pull that notion into our inquiry till it becomes laughable. So surrender and inquiry, Bhagwan called them the two wings of a bird.

Thank you. And also don't presume to know the outcomes of things and don't anchor for any specific outcomes, you see. So I'm not giving this to you as advice, okay, but tomorrow suppose you meet someone and you feel like you get really angry and impatient with them and you start saying like that, and then the words that come through you may just change that one life. You never know, you see. But if you had this idea of control and then you see, it becomes all convoluted and strange. So trust, trust your being. Trust your being, you see, to run this life with the utmost intelligence. But remember that this being...

You see, so I'm not giving this to you as advice, okay? But tomorrow, suppose you meet someone and you feel like you get really angry and impatient with them and you start saying like that, and then the words that come through you may just change that one life. You never know, you see. But if you had this idea of control, and then you see, it becomes all convoluted and strange. So trust, trust your being. Trust your being, you see, to run this life with the utmost intelligence. But remember that this being is under no obligation to make sense to your mind. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Can we catch up with the chat a bit?

One said, "Father, when you talked about seva, you talked about selfless service instead of ego-driven actions. Yes, this resonates a lot in the moment. Do you have any more words on it?" Yes, so this is a question that was asked last time about what is seva, and I feel like I spoke a lot about it, but let's see if something else comes up now. So really, the point of seva and all spiritual practices is to let go of this attachment to this idea of me, you see. Otherwise, we are so obsessed with the story of me where we try to milk every moment for what does it bring to me, how does it help me, what's in it for me? You see, then we come into a spiritual sangha or a spiritual movement of any sort and they will say, "Oh, go just go dig that pit," you see. And if you say, "Why do I have to go dig that?" "No, no, you don't have to know why, just go dig it," you see. "But what will I get? Is this supposed to help my body? Is it supposed to help my mind? You see, is it a spiritual practice?" "No, no, you don't have to understand any of that. Go dig that," you see. "Why should I do it?" "Because the master wants you to. Because the master wants you to. He wants the pit over there," you see.

So what happened there? The feeling that I'm just doing it for my master, because it is my master's will or it is God's will or whatever we like to say, you see, takes away this constant "what's in it for me, what's in it for me," which I've often called the maha mantra of the ego, you see. Because everything seems to be built on what's in it for me. Why should I come to this satsang? What's in it? Is this one better for me or this one better for me? You see, and I've said that go to the one that is worse for me—you have to be a bit careful with that, follow your heart with that one—but you see, if you're coming to satsang and it's all about me, me, me, you see, then it's me, it's not satsang. Sat is the truth; me is the ego. So if you're just coming to a satsang where all that is happening is the me is getting more juice and the me is getting more muscles and the me is feeling very good about itself, the idea of me is getting amplified in so many different ways, then that may not be the best satsang. In fact, that is definitely not the best reason for you to go. Sometimes it does happen that the master builds you up a bit, you see, so that it can chop you down properly. Sometimes it's not choppable, you know, if it's too floozy. So sometimes you need to build up a bit so it can be properly chopped. So these things anyway, don't try to understand all of that, that's fine.

Just like devotional singing, what happens? It's not singing if you're, "Oh, look at me, how well I'm singing," or "Look at me, how badly I'm singing," you see. It's not singing, it's not devotional singing if it's all about the correctness of every note and you see how much the people are getting impressed. You see, if it is, then that is not devotional singing and that's a concert or something like that. You see, it's not true bhajan. So seva, bhajan... if suppose you're doing some other practice like japa, no? And the japa just becomes about, "Oh, how many times have I finished the mala today? Oh, good, good, I'm so cool, man, that's so good, I finished 20 rounds today," you see. Then we're getting obsessed with the me again. What's in it for me? Or the other way: "Oh, look at me, I can't even focus for half of my mala," you see. "What's the point? I'm hopeless." The same trick, the opposite side of the same coin.

So all spiritual practices have been designed in one way or the other to pull the locus out from this me to a greater divinity. Whether it is bhajan, whether it is any other spiritual practice, the idea is to be free and to not be obsessed with me, to be free from the notion of me. So seva in that way is very good. And what happens very often in seva is because, especially in sanghas like this one where there's no hierarchy at all really, what can happen in seva is that everybody is just working on their own in service to the master in one way or the other. But the absence of hierarchy makes it very difficult. The absence of hierarchy, the absence of a chain of command makes it very difficult because everybody's free to say what they want. They're free to say, "You did a terrible job," whether you did a great job. "You don't know what you're doing," or "You're doing so well," you see. And this can press our buttons a lot. This can press our buttons a lot.

So that's why seva is very good, because these buttons only belong to the remote of the me. The Self does not have a remote control. These buttons that are getting pressed, you see, somebody presses praise and you dance with joy; it is criticism, you see... so who's that remote? Who does it belong to? It does not belong to your reality. And that's why seva is very good because all of you are just in it together like brothers and sisters and there's really no set hierarchy, at least here, in terms of how seva could be done. So I feel like that's good for today in terms of that.

Next one says, "If I can be aware of awareness, then how can I be awareness as I am that which is aware of awareness? So I may be something beyond and subtler than awareness." Yeah, yeah, then once we give that a name, then that name won't be enough. So it is subtler than that, you see. So don't worry about this. Don't worry about this higher than the highest and lower than the lowest at the same time, subtler than the subtlest but more gross than the grossest at the same time. So don't get attached to one end of the dimension, okay?

Okay, I've answered most of this. One says, "Father, maybe it is the right thing to take your hand now. I love you." Love you too, my dear. It's always... it can never be the wrong thing. See, what does it mean to take Father's hand? It only means that we let go of that which is troubling us. All the things which we think are our problem, we make it the master's problem. "How can I practice it? Mind takes over, master." Okay, I don't know practice what, so you can remind me as you type more.

"Father, is the fact of not having great meditative experiences mean anything at all in terms of awakening? Like being a sign that understanding has not fully combusted into spirit or you are not fully awake?" So, don't try to be awakened. Just try to find the truth, you see. Don't worry about awakening. Sometimes I ask, no, when there are people sitting around and say, suppose we all went into self-inquiry and you had the best inquiry of your life, best spot on, you came to intuitive insight, everything that you wanted to get you figured—you can't really say figured, but you just had this immediate spontaneous insight into your true nature and it is unshakable, unshakable recognition of reality. But what happened is that the inquiry session ended and you are still talking about some lame stuff about the world and things like that, but the one sitting next to you seems to have got all the fruit of the inquiry, you see, and they are starting to get a halo, they are starting to speak like... you see, all the greatest words are coming out of their mouth, you see. Would you be okay with that? Because what did you discover in the inquiry? There is no such limited you, you know, all is one. So why should you not be okay with that, you see?

So the benchmark of using this body and the words and actions of this one, you see, to make a claim or to disclaim your freedom is one of the subtleties of the mind. But because it is not underused, because it is subtle, it constantly uses it: "Look at you, how you're behaving, and you think you are free." So don't worry about whether you are having the awakening or not. Who is that one? That which is awake is already awake, always awake. That which is true is always true. That which comes and goes, comes and goes. Maybe some more can come.

Father, is the fact of not having great meditative experiences... well, sometimes it's very good, you see. Sometimes it's very good to not have great meditative experiences. No fireworks, no nothing, because there's nothing to get attached to, you see. And this happens so often that somebody would have been with me for a few months and at the end of the few months they tell me, "You know what? It's been great, but what I really wanted is something... you know, I was just sitting in a jungle one day three years ago and something happened to me and that's what I wanted," you see. And I say, fresh God is here. Fresh God is here, and you're thinking about three years ago, you see. Is fresh God not good enough for you? That which is in your heart at this very moment, you see, that divine presence, that is not enough for you? You're clamoring or you're anchoring for some experiences from three years ago, which is just from your tiny repository of memory, something showing you something from there. Or empty, you see. Nothing, no memory, no past, no future is worth giving up on fresh God for. Don't exchange it for anything. And those who have not had these kind of experiences, they sometimes find it easier to follow this.

So what is the approach for those who have had these experiences? And I've often said you treat it as prasad. I don't know if all of you are familiar with the term in India, no? And I'm sure it happens in most cultures, but if you go to a holy place then you're given something sweet to eat, or sometimes savory also—more in the south of India it can be savory also. So treat it as prasad, which is the fruit or the byproducts of the darshan of the truth, but never mistake the prasad for the truth. Never mistake the byproducts for the truth. Never mistake the fireworks for the being, you see. Never mistake the fireworks for that which is aware of even being. So enjoy it. Why I call it prasad? Because you can enjoy it, you see. Enjoy it while it's there, but don't make an identity around it. Don't anchor after it, because everything that comes and goes is not real ultimately.

Okay, let me go to the... so that I can rest this mouth for a moment, let me go to Advaitadas then Devdas. Both the Dasas decided to come together. Depends on the country you're in, but are you driving or in the passenger's seat?

No, I'm driving here. I'm driving.

So just we'll do this carefully. No, I'm not driving at the moment.

So, I still have sometimes this issue with this concept of truth for truth's sake. Yeah, it comes like, I don't know, it sometimes comes and feels real because, you know, like it feels like awareness is complete, there's nothing to solve there. And the only thing that needs to be solved, let's say, is the person, you know, because that is already like complete. And it feels like that's why it feels like it always comes just to end the suffering on this while I'm in this body, you know, on this earth. And the rest is like really... I don't really know and I don't really care so much what's going to happen after death.

Boom. So we can just pause there. We can pause there for a moment. This is good. It's a good start. So as far as awareness is concerned, there is no problem, correct? There is no trouble, you see. And then we say that if there is trouble, it is only at a personal level, you see. So I just need to fix it at the personal level and then everything will be fine. Now this "I" is which one? It's a personal one. The person is trying to fix.

Know, and I don't really care so much what's going to happen after death. Boom. So we can just pause there. We can pause there for a moment. This is good. It's a good start. So, as far as awareness is concerned, there is no problem, correct? There is no trouble, you see. And then we say that if there is trouble, it is only at a personal level, you see. So I just need to fix it at the personal level and then everything will be fine. Now, this 'I' is which one? It's a personal one. The person is trying to fix itself. It's kind of—well, that's the only thing that can really work at this, because awareness doesn't really need to work at anything. But once you recognize that you are this awareness, you see, once you as awareness—as awareness is manifest, plays—consciousness recognizes through its own intuitive insight that it is only awareness and reality, just to be technically correct, then what has to be fixed?

It feels like while I'm in this body on this earth, it seems like to make this journey easier, this awareness—which is the only thing that is here throughout this person that wants to solve this, even though it knows that it is complete—but it's all at the same time, wants to make this journey easier somehow.

Yeah, you know, so therefore if awareness could really get into the body... but I have a sense of what you mean. But just to clarify for everybody else, when you're saying awareness is in the body, you don't really mean it literally. You do, because only yourself... yeah, this body is showing up, yeah. But awareness remains really untouched by whatever is showing up, whichever body is showing up, whichever world is showing up, whether it's the dream state or the waking state. Whatever states are showing up, it is really untouched by all of this, you see. Now, the person is the idea that consciousness—which is again the manifest aspect of awareness—consciousness has the ability to take on the idea that it is objective in this realm, that it has an objective existence as body movement, you see. Now, once that false idea is dropped and you see that there is no such objective existence of an individual entity, you see, it was just an idea that consciousness seemed to be playing with for some time. Then it's also recognized that only awareness is, and awareness, like you said, has no problem. So when the masters have said 'remain as awareness' or 'stay as the Self,' all they mean is don't take yourself to be anything other than the Self.

Yes, and it feels the only thing that is, let's say, driving to keep practicing it is just for—well, to obviously to get rid of, to see more and more clearly that this person is not real. But for the reason would hold, it would be the suffering to end, you know? It never feels like I want this truth for truth's sake, because it feels like... yeah.

Yes, okay. So let's look.

Very rarely, maybe when I'm with you, like sitting, it's... but usually, it feels like no, it's just for the suffering.

You actually, we cannot conclusively say why for anything, but let's presume that that is true. Now, what happens when I say 'truth for truth's sake'? So what happens is that if we take any position, I see, and that position, by the way, could be truth for truth's sake also—but we'll come to that in a moment—if we take any shape or any position, it is going to get slapped, you see. That seems to be the nature of the world; that is what we are calling something, you see. Now what happens is that if we take the position that sounds like a very humble and beautiful position, which is that 'I am only doing this to come to the end of my suffering,' that position also is an invitation into suffering, you see. So although we may feel like initially it provided us the initial impetus to come into satsang or to come into the self-inquiry, many times that is the tail of the elephant. The entire elephant has gone through the needle's hole, but only the tail gets left behind, you see. And that tail can be, 'Oh, am I done with my suffering yet?' You see? And even a question like that, like 'Am I really done with the suffering?' can lead to more suffering because the mind can say, 'No, no, no, see, yesterday you were in so much suffering because your partner said this to you, and you're not done,' you see. So any position that you take then becomes pokable by the mind. It's like a button on the remote control, since I'm using the remote example so much with you. So any position then becomes pressable by the mind and says, 'See, you came to this to come to the end of suffering. See, see, it's still happening.' And many times—and it's good that in a way the better aspect of it is that yes, it seems to provide the impetus for me to come back to satsang, you see, when life is poking me—but it also sometimes comes to an extent where we become so frustrated and say, 'No, no, no, satsang is not working for me. I need to just go live my life because I wasted enough time doing this stuff. It has not helped me in any way. I have not come to the end of my suffering, and I'm just out of here.' And we keep maybe just out of spirituality altogether, or spiritual shopping, spiritual hopping—all these things can happen because we keep searching for this ever-elusive end of suffering, which is maybe the only idea which is making you suffer now. 'Why am I still suffering?' That's what's happening actually there.

But you know, the suffering dropped a lot and it seems like... but it's still not, not completely. And it feels like, okay, so something just, let's say, meditating, sitting, you know, just to more and more see that the person which has these problems doesn't exist, so then the suffering is dropped, you know.

Actually, okay, so let's make it simpler, no? So let's say, because in your case you're talking about this 'I just want to come to the end of suffering,' you're not talking about trying to be in a particular state or in bliss constantly or, you know, blissed out or any of that. So let's make it simpler in your case. So suppose you say, 'I want to hold on to the notion that I am not in it just for truth's sake, but I am in it just so that I can come to the end of my suffering.' Okay, in your case, I'll make an exception to the rule. You can stay in it to come to the end of suffering, but also you have to remember that why you came in was to come to the end of suffering, and also remember that suffering means imagining a sufferer.

Definitely, definitely, I feel that. I feel that. So to come to the end of suffering is to stop imagining the sufferer. Yeah, definitely, I feel that. It feels it's more relaxed to go this way rather than truth for truth's sake, because I don't know what truth is and I don't want that actually, you know? It feels like... but it seems like that's why sometimes I just override and they say it's fine. I'm sure it's the same goal analogy is pointing to you as well, but just wanted to hear what you just said.

So the thing with at least the pointings from here is that there are enough of them, you see. There are enough of them. You don't have to take the ones that trouble you the most. Sometimes maybe, sometimes maybe not even this one I can say conclusively, but you can take so many that are available which may seem easier. But what can happen is that the nature of the mind just feels like, 'Oh, but because you're not in it for truth's sake, you see, that's why...' You see, it uses that. But there are millions of other things that I have said that it won't even remember, you see. It just picks up things so that it can poke you with it and say, 'Oh, see, see, you're not in it for truth's sake,' like that. So don't worry about it. You never heard it. You are in it to come to the end of your suffering, you see. Now this 'you' that is in it for something or not is the imagined shape of the sufferer. So forget about it.

Now it's very clear. Thank you. Something just relaxes because it's like something to reach which I cannot do. I really want it even, and then I don't really know about it, you know? Where it feels like suffering I know more about and, yeah, you know.

Okay, so again, maybe you missed the last point of what I said, which was that this 'you' which wants it a certain way or doesn't want it a certain way is the sufferer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This I feel, I feel it's just I identify with this quite often still, and that's why it feels real. And I feel like I need to speak this out, like what I do now, to contradict or to release something out of this, because identifying it feels real. Like, 'Yeah, but maybe this is true, like, but maybe this actually is true. Maybe it's all about just I want to get rid of my suffering,' you know? And yeah, so you know, I need to say it out so it's just bursting.

It's good for now. It's good. Drive safe into wherever you're going and I'll see you very soon. Yes, thank you. Very good, my love. Very nice. Thank you. So what happened is that this reminded me of a story. One who came to satsang with me—oh, she wanted to speak to me and I forgot to reply to her and say this reminds me—so just remind me at the end of satsang, someone, that I'm supposed to respond to this one. So one who was in satsang with me for some time, she said, 'Something has been troubling me a lot, you see. Something has been troubling me a lot.' I said, 'Okay, what is it?' So she said, 'You always say don't believe your next thought, okay? And you include every thought in that. But there is one thought that I have to believe and I'm so stuck because of it, okay? It's just one thought that I have to believe.' And she was expecting, you know, that I'll say, 'Okay, let's pull that thought, let's take it into inquiry, let's demolish it, finish it, you can't have it,' you see. So I said, 'Okay, just one thought? Okay, you keep one thought. One thought is allowed.' She was like, 'What?' I was not expecting that. Then you know what she said next? 'Anantaji, can I have three more? Can I have three more?'

But what really the point of what I was saying is that I don't take every word or sentence that comes out of this mouth so seriously. So sometimes like this, like this; sometimes like that, like that; sometimes in some different way. Like Guruji says, you don't have to make tattoos out of my words. You don't have to worry so much. And I'm happy that you can just speak it out because otherwise, if you just keep it within, it has the potential to create some unworthiness or guilt or confusion or things like that. So often I've said, and I want to repeat for everyone: if there's something that you hear in satsang which makes you feel unworthy or guilty, just throw it away. Just throw it away, you see. There's plenty of other good stuff that you can hear. It is the nature of the mind which will latch onto some things and say, 'What about this?' Okay, leave that. What about the rest? And if there's something like this, you can always come up and say, 'You know, this you say, I don't resonate with it so much.' And maybe sometimes we look at it together to see if there's some resistance or something, or something light and easy. We just say, 'Okay, leave that. What about the other ten thousand things?'

So that's good enough. Then I remember here also it used to happen this way that I would read a book, a spiritual book, and I'd feel like, 'Yes, yes,' and then I would find one thing which I could not relate with. I read a book from a great master and maybe it was a typo or something, but he talked about chakras in a way which was like the opposite of my experience with them. So my mind had a full field day. This was before I met Guruji. So I was like, 'This one, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Keep it away,' you know? And I've never read anything from that master after that. So stupid and arrogant. Sorry, just such pure silliness. But maturity is to let go of the things which don't resonate so much in our heart, but to immerse ourselves in that which we know in our heart is potent and atomic. That's very good. Okay, next.

My experience with them—so I have my mind had a full field day. This was before I met Buddhism, so I was like, 'This one, he doesn't know what he's talking about; keep it away,' you know? And I've never read anything from that monster after that. So stupid and arrogant. So sorry, just such pure silliness. But maturity is to let go of the things which don't resonate so much in our heart, but to immerse ourselves in that which we know in our heart is potent and atomic. That's very good. Okay, next.

Oh, Devdas, thank you. I have to expose myself, my little self. I was identifying quite a lot, although I was checking. And at the beginning, when I returned from India, it was quite nice. But afterwards, yeah, even before going back, I fell down with the bicycle. I had three ribs broken, and so it was like not to be the easy thing. But finally, I wanted to work after I arrived, maybe after one month, but somehow all the things unfolded in such a way that only kind of negative things came. And this is going on from the end of November. It started with frustration, and okay, I understood, okay, another one. But it started to grow unconsciously, and in the last week, it was like so loud and so uncomfortable. When I sat to find the frustrated one, yeah, it was very nice, okay, it's gone. But after, when I stand up and go moving around, it was like full force. It's like the mind was not giving me kind of any moment to be able to catch up a little bit. It was really—I knew that it is a test and it is a grace, it's an acid grace, but that couldn't—it wasn't easy to bear it.

And even when I was watching the satsang, it was okay, but how should I come up and to say that I am so personal? And I was waiting maybe for it to kind of finish the whole thing. And I was helping my mother for years to see so many things, and I was so frustrated because she started now, 'But why you don't surrender?' I'm surrendering, but it kind of looks like no use. And it seemed like even all the practices—I was so impatient that I couldn't do anything. It's like really full, full. And only yesterday, somehow, because usually for me it's quite easy if something like this comes, I can cry out, yeah? But now even that was not possible. And only yesterday afternoon, somehow I could bend down and carefully I fell on my knees and I cried out the whole thing, and this kind of energy left.

But it's very interesting. Although old ideas and all the things are clear, it's not up to the seeker to kind of be able to pull out himself. Because I feel that even the grace is that, okay, you have to go through all of this, and even you cannot pull out yourself from this suffering. This is a kind of—I felt that you have to go all through these things in order to—I don't know why this is the thing that you have to go through. And also, I wanted to kind of preserve this idea that I am at least an old seeker, that I shouldn't expose myself in front of you in the past weeks. Let's wait until the whole thing goes, because I know the whole thing is only the person. But also, when I was in Thiru, a lot of anger came up and I thought that it's really not up to me. Because in the past I was calm, nice kind of, but now it's like nothing. I cannot show anything which—no spiritual fruit, anything, nothing, nothing at all. So even that one's gone. So it's like, okay, even my mother is teaching me now. It's like so awkward. But that's good.

But I wanted to expose the whole thing, and I am really happy that—because there was the mind was kind of creating such a kind of energy inside and judging nearly everything. And I had this already one time when I was in Sahaja. My mind was so in resistance and judging that every movement was judged. I was so full of judgment that I was really kind of hating the whole thing. But the next day in Sahaja, I was full, full with the—I was so, how to say, thankful and grateful for everything that even that was a little bit, 'Why is this so?' This is when the third day I went to Guruji and I said, 'Please, because two days ago I was judging everything, yesterday I was grateful for everything, so what is this?' And he said nothing, none of them has room, because the Self is like—it's on its table, nothing touches that.

But now it was like again this judging type of mind was so loud, and now it is finished yesterday by grace. But the whole thing was grace, I know. And all the things that—nothing, nothing. All the past weeks and months, everything happened so—like my bank account was closed, I cannot work. It's like a lot of things, it's like pushing, pushing to the milling. So, but I am really happy that finally it ended, the whole thing, and I am able to expose and I haven't left anything. The sangha and your presence—and anyway, I would really love to hear some things from you if you would like to comment anything. Thank you, thank you.

Thank you for that report, full of honesty and integrity. It's very good, I enjoyed hearing it. So, you said you're an old seeker in a way, you know? So I want to ask you, like, seekers become more and more mature. Let's call it mature instead of old; mature is a better word. So we're mature and mature and mature and mature, and then what is the final maturity of a mature seeker?

Dissolving completely. Dissolving completely. Very good. This seeker is alive only sometimes. It's like I always see the whole thing, but what happens is that there's more and more maturity, more and more understanding of all that is happening, and how everything is grace and how the Master is taking care of us. And more and more, everything we can figure out, how this is like this, and I understand why this was, I understand how this worked, you see? And we can go more and more into that. Now, the highest maturity is what? I don't know, at least. But sometimes the whole thing comes back and I go into identity.

Yeah, but I'm saying the life of any mature seeker, not just in your case, any mature seeker: you can go more and more and you feel like, 'Okay, I see this. This what is happening to me is this grace. This that is happening to the world is this, it's all Guru Kripa.' I see all of this and I really understand it. And more and more, everything is now getting understood more and more. And we have been in enough satsang, enough spiritual understanding is there that we are able to say, 'Okay, this is what it is,' you see?

Then at the end of all of it, a very strange thing happens, you see? A very strange thing happens. As you get more and more and more and more and more mature, you see, we are not at the final end. We are not able to say what anything is. We come to the innocence of a child. We come to the final maturity where we're not able to look at something and say, 'Ah, that is what this is. Ah, this is what this is.' I don't know. I don't know what anything is. You don't know what surrender is. I don't know what inquiry is. I don't know what Brahman is. I don't know what awareness is. I don't know what Guru is. I don't know what grace is. I don't know anything about anything. I'm just so empty, even that I don't know.

Thank you for the years to have this, to hear this answer. That's very good. It touches my heart.

Sometimes there is a conflict, like I would want to meditate more, sit in silence, listen to your satsang. Even today there was a talk and I got late because of a conference in my medical field. So there's no end to how much one can acquire for the service of others. If it was like a business-related profession, you can earn less, but in a profession where the more you learn and more you work, you gain more. But then this internal conflict of sitting in silence and meditating or listening to satsang and feeling guilty that you are maybe not giving your best to your work, and then being stretched in two worlds. So how to end this conflict? Because there's sometimes guilt that I am meditating too much, I am not studying.

Yeah. And what happens also—and not in your case necessarily, but for many it can happen—that there can also be guilt that 'I'm working too much, I'm too much in my work and I'm not getting any time to meditate' and things like this. So what can happen is that—and it may sound like a cliché, and I was not very fond of hearing clichés or answers when I was on the journey, so to speak, but it's coming up now. So yeah, it's coming up, so I'll share it, but I'll expand on that as well.

So just allow your feet, wherever they're taking you, to take you, you see? Don't judge it. Allow it to unfold as it is unfolding. And actually, you will realize that in the midst of your medical conference, you will realize that everything is being heard, but you are actually meditating what you would call meditating. You're not taking yourself to be what you're not, okay? You're not taking yourself to be that which you're not, and yet the hearing, perception, all of that can happen independently, even the remembering of it, you see?

So all the things that we think were so effortful, you see, were like, 'I have to assimilate this, I have to really get it, am I really paying attention?' All of that. Sometimes we just open up, remain open and empty, you see? Then whatever needs to be heard is heard. Whatever actions need to happen—surgery has to happen—the hands are moving, you see? It can happen. And you have never left your meditative posture. So it is the nature of the mind to create duality wherever it can. It is the nature of the mind to create conflict: 'Should I do this or that?' you see? But it is the nature of the truth to not be in opposition to anything.

So just allow this to unfold very intuitively, very normally, and you will notice that in the middle of a medical seminar, you could have a great meditative experience and yet you heard everything in the seminar also, you see? Not—don't try to do that, you know, like try to do that. Just allow it to unfold and remember that there's no need to be in opposition to anything at all. Just natural, natural. You will find that life is unfolding in its most beautiful way. And you're in a beautiful profession that I just heard about, and in the same way, you can look at it as seva if you are looking at it already. So that already is very good.

But don't feel like 'I am doing it' or not that you are. But when this impulse comes, then don't accept the doership about it and say, 'Oh, I am in service' or 'I am helping the world.' And in the same way, when you do a practice, it is not to help me. Yeah, I feel like it's a Buddhist or some sect of Buddhism which, when they finish the practice, they say, 'May the fruits of my practice go to the entire kingdom of humanity.' So then that makes it very beautiful, and it's not like, 'What should I do and what will I get?' So we step out of that paradigm. Allow your life, allow your body-mind to just be an instrument in the Satguru's presence, and the Satguru can move it however he feels best.

That's really helpful. And this is one thing: like when we have this closed-eye meditation and the senses are not engaged, it's much more joyful. This sense of peace is there. Even like in a medical conference or walking or when we are acting out in the world, but somehow when everything is cut off, that is more enjoyable.

And don't hanker after joy. So joy can come, joy can go, you see? If it is always joyful, joyful, then you won't even notice the joy. Just—I feel like saying 'Truth for truth's sake,' but Advaita is still here, so I am not going to say no, no, I have this message. But you have a sense of what I'm saying. Is the purpose of meditation so that you can get joy?

Even like in a medical conference or walking or when we are acting out in the world, but somehow when everything is cut off, that is more enjoyable. And don't hanker after joy. Joy can come, joy can go, you see. If it is always joyful, joyful, then you won't even notice the joy. I just feel like saying 'truth for truth's sake,' but Edward is still here, so I am not going to say no, no, I have this message. But you have a sense of what I'm saying. Is the purpose of meditation so that you can get joy? It is because you have a longing in your heart for the truth, for God or truth or Self, and that longing can be fulfilled irrespective of what other circumstances or how many kilograms of joy is there or not there.

So in a way, the sensory pleasures of the material world and wanting joy from meditation in a subtle experience for some bliss—that's the same thing. It's an equal trap. Very good, exactly, exactly. So many feel like that. And not that they're thinking that way; it just becomes inadvertently understood in this way that all the joy that I wanted from material possessions, now I've got a shortcut to it, so I can just go within and see, there it is, you see? And then it becomes about experience changing, or it becomes about the Ananda rather than the Sat part of it. So okay, then Madalina can come.

Namaste. I'm not sure what I'm going to say. I think I raised my hand because I feel I need help and guidance. Yeah, I feel like I'm imprisoned and that I want freedom. And I feel like I'm doing all because I want to control the outcome, and that does not allow me to be in a way, I don't know. And I also feel that if I surrender now, it's going to come up in the morning and I'll just cling to it again.

Yeah, yeah. I have a problem and you have to help me with this problem. I know you came for help, but I need help now with this thing. So, I can help the one who is in the prison, or I can help the one who can never be in the prison, you see? Now the problem is that the one who's in the prison, I can't find that one. Can you find her? Where is she? You surely don't want me to help just an imaginary character, no? Like Winnie the Pooh or something like that. You must be wanting my time to help somebody who's really here. So I want to meet this one, really. Where is she, the one in the prison? And what kind of prison is it, by the way? Does it have iron bars? Does it have concrete walls? What kind of prison is it?

It has an attachment to someone else's happiness.

And whether that's attachment—it has attachment to somebody else's happiness. And who has that attachment? Show me that one. That is the one I want to meet.

I think it's this body-mind that joined the satsang under an ID.

See, okay, let's break this down. And many times I am responsible for this, so you all have to forgive me for this. I use the term 'body-mind,' and maybe I picked it up from Ramesh. I know where I picked it up from first, but maybe I should stop using that because body—let's break it up. Let's really look at what we mean by body-mind. So first is body. Is the body in a prison?

No, the body is not in prison. It can move around anywhere. It is through its mind.

Okay, so just mind. Now, mind is only thoughts, you see. Mind—Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi has made it clear that mind is just a bundle of thoughts, you see. Now, wow, how can a thought be in prison?

It becomes a belief. I still believe its construct here, and I believe in the construct next to me.

Okay, so stop it.

I can't. I should be. Every morning it makes noise, you know? So I can't tell her, 'You don't exist, your suffering is an illusion.' I can use words, but I don't think it's going to work.

So why would I say 'stop it' if I didn't feel like you could do it? You say a thought comes and it becomes a belief. So every thought that comes to your head becomes a belief? Let's say, let's start from the person next to me. The person comes, she's suffering or she's angry or whatever, she cries extensively.

And it becomes a belief in my responsibility to bring happiness into that body. That is just absurd.

Yeah. So before it can become a belief, it has to be a thought, no? Can a non-thought become a belief? Can emptiness become a belief? Like, believe something without having a thought? Just look at the screen in front of you with these strange two hands and believe something without any thought. It's hard because the difference between perception—just pure perception—you cannot believe. It has to have this narrative of thoughts, you see, for it to become a belief.

So with these people coming in front of you and meeting you, and somebody in pain, all of that, and you take on the burden for it becoming your responsibility—first that has to be a thought, you see, and then it has to become a belief. And you, as Consciousness, have full power to let it go. And I discussed this even last time, that if you did not have this power, then why would all the masters tell you to let it go? Why are all the masters wasting your time and their time telling you to let it go? And I have said this: Bhagavan said don't worry about anything, just don't get involved with the stream of thoughts, let it go, you see. Papaji said keep quiet, no thought, keep quiet, you see. Guruji says don't identify, don't log in. I say don't believe your next thought or remain open and empty. All of us are saying this because you can do it.

You said the primal, the mother identity, is primal, and I should give it to you, but it's still here.

But we were talking about some other people coming in front of you, or you were talking about your children. Why? You want to get rid of trying to help them?

I'm not sure. I'm not trying to get rid of helping them. I'm trying to help them in a better way, probably.

Okay, so remind me again, what is the prison?

The prison is my mind.

And who is it imprisoning? Who is the prisoner in the prison of your mind?

The lyrics to some songs. I'm not a good singer.

Suppose you had no problem. Would you be okay with that?

Yeah. How long? I don't know. Until the wine gets warm. I don't know. Until the wine warms up. I don't know.

I love the absurdity of this conversation. It's so enjoyable for me. If you feel like you don't know what's going on, then I'm in the same place. I said from the beginning, I don't know. So basically, I'm saying if I reject your construct that there is a prisoner in a prison, then what problem do you have?

I'm a mother with a sick child for a very long period of time who's trying to fix the child.

Yeah, yeah. What does the child want? Does it want fixing or love?

Sometimes she really—she might want Winnie the Pooh.

So you can give a Winnie the Pooh with love, not with fixing.

Sometimes she's very demanding and it's hard to love her.

I like that what you said. That is full of honesty. That's good, that's good. So you can surrender that. You don't have to feel guilty about that. You don't have to feel guilty about that. Sometimes kids are difficult to love. It's true. Sometimes I don't want to see my kids. I don't feel guilty about that.

I feel I need to do something to—yeah, but is it that you've not done whatever is possible? I don't know if I did everything that's possible. I think I need to do something to myself. Every retreat, like since probably, I don't know, since last year when I was stepping into any retreat with Guruji, I was like, 'I need to be Mooji when I'm getting out of here to be able to raise this child properly.'

So now we've come to the right place. So it is nothing in the world or in perceptions that need fixing. It is only one—there is only one seeming mistake. And that seeming mistake is to take ourselves to be that which we are not, which is that prisoner, which is that person, which is the identity. So in a way, your daughter is helping to fix that misidentification.

I know she's doing that, but it's just taking too long.

Too long? So then you drop it now. You do one, two, three, drop it. Then it won't take long. Mind is time. There is no other time but the mind. Who are you right now?

I don't know.

If it is true that you don't know, then you can be very happy. It is our knowing that makes us unhappy. Can you repeat that? If it is true that you really don't know, then you would be very happy, you see. It is our knowing, or thinking that we know, that makes us unhappy. So take the top things that you think you know and you leave them here in satsang today. What is the number one thing that you think you know that you're definitely right about?

I'm a mother.

Okay, good. Leave that here. I second believe that. No, okay. Keep that. Second, what kind of mother do you want to be? That's not the second one. Then what is the second?

But I have all the gods with me.

You have all the gods with you? No, leave that here.

Can't leave.

Oh, that's two-zero-one. And third, can the truth leave? Can the truth be left? No, you see. So if it can be left, then it must be the false, you see. And the false doesn't necessarily mean that—many times the false is just false because the truth is so much bigger than that, that your notions of the truth cannot capture it. And that is why it is worth letting it go. Okay, but so far in the two concepts, I don't see too much scope for trouble. Give me another one.

Oh, I love my children very much.

Love—there's no trouble. You don't have to—it's not really a concept, no? Mother's love is beyond all concepts. Any love is beyond all concepts. Is this not true even for other species who don't have language? They love them. So it is not love that is the problem, no?

Maybe it's a controlling love sometimes.

So control is not love. Love is freedom. Control is wanting your—control is desire. Is it wrong to want your children to be happy? It depends, in the sense that you may be fixated on your idea of what their happiness means. And without your idea of them being happy, God would stop doing His job? Is it that all these gods that are looking at you are powerless without your thinking about their happiness? That is possible, exactly, because they don't know what to do. They're just gods. You have to tell them what to do. You must be their god then, because then you give them guidance.

Because of Anna's condition, her sickness freaks me out. Then this makes me unable to be an instrument of God. But it would be best for her to be in the presence of an instrument of God. This is why I said I've been wanting to be Mooji, you know?

The best way to be Mooji, best way to be Guruji, is just hold his hand. It is not to become something; it is to just be in the refuge of the Master. Anyway, even right now, I have not got anything that is making you suffer.

But I'm crying heavily.

Crying could be anything, no? Crying is okay. I know it's okay. What is the number one suffering thought?

That my child is suffering. That makes the other child suffer as well.

And what is the best gift you can give to children who are suffering? Does your suffering help their suffering, or does your freedom help their suffering?

Freedom, yes.

So all of these gods that are looking at you—either you allow them, or at least one of them, to take control of your life and to run it, otherwise it's pointless having all these gods around. It's like buying the best brand of vacuum cleaner in the world and then just keeping it on the side and you yourself mopping the floors with your hands and doing the clean-up. So to have a Guru and a problem at the same time is wasting the Guru. You can either have a Guru or a problem. Which one you want? That's it. And all having a Guru means is that all problems belong to the Guru. They don't belong to you. Good, good, good. You know that my love, my blessings are always with you, and I'm praying to Guruji's grace that his grace takes care of whatever needs to be taken care of. But then you have to just trust that that grace is taking care and don't take on so much additional burden onto yourself. The activities that are happening from your body can continue to happen to help your children, but the mental burden and the—

Guru means that all problems belong to the Guru; they don't belong to you. Good, good, good. You know that my love, my blessings are always with you, and I'm praying to Guruji's grace that his grace takes care of whatever needs to be taken care of. But then, you have to just trust that that grace is taking care and don't take on so much additional burden onto yourself. The activities that are happening from your body can continue to happen to help your children, but the mental burden and the mental pressure that you take on to yourself, you can transfer it at the feet of the Master, because it is that mental burden which is tiresome. Yes, and you don't need to, you don't need to carry it anymore. Okay, my dear? Very good. So I'm also aware that you're in communication on and off with some other Sangha sisters, isn't it? And I'm very much in encouragement of that and my full blessings for that communication and coming in and communion as well. So that's very beautiful that the Sangha can help each other in this way. So very, very good. Very good.

Thank you. My son wanted your darshan today for his birthday. Yes, it's his birthday today. Yes, and he was here at the beginning and raised my hand, but he went to bed.

Because all my blessings. Okay, thank you, my love. And I'll just look at a couple of more questions.

Okay. Dear Father, there is so much hatred and blaming on me from my sister. I did my best; nothing changes. She is presently like this now. I don't know what to do. Shouldn't I have to bear it? I'm sorry, should I have to bear it and live like this? I see how as soon as her thoughts come into my field, my whole thought system and feeling changes, yet I've learned enough to not be drawn in the same circle and bless as much as I can. It is the same for many years. My mother was the same, but by the grace of Guruji, she has completely transformed. Asking for your help and blessings for the whole family lineage of my mother, where all of this stuff comes from.

Dearest Father, whatever mental burdens that your family may be carrying, may they all be surrendered at the Master's grace, at the Master's feet. Okay, maybe just one or two more because I can feel the batteries.

How to practice to accept whatever comes, unfavorable situations in life, and accept as Guru Kripa? Even as mind overcomes and starts to bring past and presume bad to happen in the future.

Well, acceptance—if it was just about the good stuff, then can we really call it acceptance? We are always open-armed about that. So acceptance, and the encouragement of acceptance, must be about that which our mind considers not-so-good or bad stuff. So firstly, see that our mind doesn't know the difference of good from bad. That which we think is bad has many times led to great growth; it's meant to lead to great maturity, great openness. So as much as possible, remain in pure perception and not in judgment. And then there are times when you fall into judgment; don't judge yourself. Return to your openness. Like that, you will remain in the unborn, and the Master has promised us that all things are perfectly resolved in the unborn.

Father, in your presence it's easy to remain peaceful and aware, but when mind takes over, it is difficult not to suffer.

Yes, yes. So don't worry about fixing those times, you see. Just allow yourself to remain in presence in the other times. Don't waste the other time thinking about what to do in those times. That is the nature of the mind, you see. Like the dog's tail is wagging, you see, and that wagging is the moments of suffering, the moments of mind identification. But remember the rest of the dog; you're fine. If you keep obsessing about those moments even when those moments are not there, then the mind has really got you. Okay, maybe last one.

Father, what was the last bit of reference which you held on to for a very long time and until finally letting it go?

I don't know. If it comes to me, I will, I will share. It's good for today. Let me see if there's some new ones. Okay, one seems like a new one.

Father, I'm having some trust issues. Want to leave it on the universe, but it is not happening. Thanks.

When surrender does not happen, try to inquire into who you are. Who is the one that is having trust issues? And if, if inquiry is also not happening, then... in one satsang actually, I had given a whole flowchart of what you could do, you see. And I don't feel like I have the full energy to share that, but if you could ask somebody in the Sangha, they could share their transcript with you. Okay. Okay, that feels like batteries out for today. I'm happy to hear some bhajans together with all of you. So always please, please. Let's see if this version is fine.

Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Prasad. Thank you, thank you.