Empty of the “Me”, In the Presence of Being - 5th January 2026

I felt you dropped some bombs yesterday with the texts you sent. It was—there were especially a couple that I forwarded to my WhatsApp. And at the moment I felt maybe it would be nice if he can expand on this. And one was about perfectionistic pride. It felt pretty strong when I read it. I read it like several times. It says it has nothing to do with genuine contrition or compunction. It's simply the sadness that comes from pride in recognizing that we are not as big a shot or as perfect as we thought we would be.

It's good. It's good. Many times we can get into this sort of spiritual lamentation, you see, which has a disguise of humility. 'Oh, actually I'm being so humble by recognizing I haven't got anything yet. I'm just starting out.' All this—it's not in the words, but where it is coming from can be that we had a very spiritual idea about ourselves and an idea of achieving it, getting it, you see, understanding everything. And then something comes along, maybe in Satsang, maybe outside, and we realize that we have no clue what's happening. So what gets attacked is our spiritual pride a lot of times, but a mind can come and weave a story around it that this is actually contrition or repentance or, 'You know, I'm just feeling so open in my heart because I'm repentant.' Many times it's just, 'I'm just feeling bad that I don't even know what I'm doing in spirituality.'

Suppose you're faced with a very basic-sounding unanswerable question in Satsang—not like moon tan or go to the left—but where is God? And somebody asks you just, 'Where is God?' You've been in Satsang long enough, you should be able to tell where is God, and you realize you don't have a clue. You see? So then what may happen is that there may be a very natural turning to humility, or there may be just like a lamentation, like a tantrum. 'Oh, what am I doing? I haven't really understood anything at all.' You see? And the label we may put around that is humility. So the idea of spiritual achievement is just big trouble. That's what we were talking about. It's good to notice, but it's good not to make a 'me' out of it. You see? Because the instant you make a 'me' out of it, then there will be pride in that. You see?

So there is ease here now by God's grace, or 'I am able to now stay at ease with God.' You see, I am not actually able to, but the mind will propose it as if I have made some progress. So just to take everything as a gift, especially in prayer and in our sadhana, to take everything as a gift and not to get into any position-making. And the notion of enlightenment in the modern world has also caused a lot of this—freedom or enlightenment has caused a lot of this idea of getting close to freedom or getting close to enlightenment, or even getting to enlightenment because you have some experience of something, even an awakening experience. So we can get into this trap of 'me' now being special because of something that God gifted to me. So something God gave to me is like somebody came to your house for Christmas and gave you a gift and you decide that you are special because of that. What would you say?

What is the mark of spiritual attainment for myself? Huh? That's a contradiction in terms because if there is spiritual attainment, there is no myself. And if there is myself, there is no spiritual attainment. So when we try to put these together—that 'now I have accomplished this level, I am in the seventh mansion'—but there's no 'I' left there because that is the mansion of union. So there can be reporting in ease, in gentleness, from a noticing which is fine, but the minute it becomes a claim, ownership, which makes something to do with 'me' special, then that is where the trouble starts. You climb a ladder on which you are supposed to dissolve by the time you get to the top. Now if you made it to the top, is that good news? This is not a Zen thing. This is straightforward. You were supposed to dissolve on the way to the top. If the ladder is doing its job, now, if you made it to the top, is it good news? It's not good news. You beat the—more like you beat yourself. So then what happened? The ladder got switched? No. Or got convoluted? Yeah. Or the downward ladder started to feel like what? The upward ladder to George. Contemplation.

Contemplation. It was also a message which sort of stayed in my mind and it was like—there are only two errors. What is it? Yeah, not starting and not finishing, not going to the end. So if you look at this ladder simile and okay, we started the ladder and not going to the end—and I was just thinking that is that—I don't know, this thought was like sort of, I guess it was bothering me because I was feeling like I'm not like serious about going to the end maybe, you know? Like I just started and then I'm like, 'It's all God's grace and it'll happen,' and so on, maybe. I don't know, but why this has just got stuck in my head.

It is said that spirituality, and specifically surrender, is a medicine which if half-swallowed causes more trouble than if you didn't swallow the medicine at all. It's very insightful. It is one of those medicines—they say about antibiotics also. In his time there were no antibiotics, I feel, but if you do just half the course then apparently the strongest bacteria stay back and they cause you more trouble than when you started. You see, so there are various ways in which we can look at this. When we are just about starting to mature on the spiritual path, there are a lot of concepts which still seem very alive at that point. You see? So if you're left in that just conceptual understanding thinking that is the finality, you see, then that can be big spiritual pride. The whole Ravan syndrome that we talk about can happen. You see? There's also this whole Dunning-Kruger curve where, like most things, initially, immediately they seem very easy, then as you stay on then it starts to seem like it really is, and then we start to—so many times it happens, especially in we ranting about today's spirituality.

So, you know, it can just feel like, 'Oh, but now, now, now, finish, finish.' So we can be left with the idea of 'now finished,' which is not really true because Maya doesn't work that way for most of us. So the idea that a glimpse of reality equals divine union is big trouble, and the narratives around this are so rampant that if you see that you are awareness then you are free. But Bhagavan's guidance was to remain as that, to abide in that. Now if it was not seen with intuitive eyes that 'I am that,' then the instruction to abide in that is pointless, isn't it? So he is only saying to those who are coming to the recognition of this to abide in that, remain in that, you see. So it cannot be that—I'm not at all meaning to imply that the glimpse is not holy. It's very holy. It is very beautiful. But for that to mean that it is the end of my spiritual journey is trouble. That's one lens with which you can see. I have to ask the author. This is also Thomas Merton? The Buddha? It could be Zen also. So we can't say. I'm sure somewhere he also said there's no finishing. So what to do? That's why mostly for Shiva I posted some of the things, no? My Grand Priest and some of the others where it's fairly apparent throughout for those who are truly seeking that the mind-sensory mechanism is not enough to go to the—or to fully at least define the project that we are on.

Yeah, going back to what you posted, Father. So, there's one in which you said that four things have to be dropped. No desire for being empty, no desire for peace. So that really like hit me because I don't know if I'm in that state ever because some very rarely—very rarely it's—I'm naturally feeling that way when I sit for focused prayer and it's truly that way, but that's very rare. Like for example today, as I sat for focused prayer, there were a lot of thoughts and I was constantly distracted and I could recognize this today, what you wrote, Father, that I had a desire to be empty, I had a desire to be peaceful, and like you're saying, I could be neither in that session. So yeah, how do I—what is the mechanics of desire and what is the mechanics of—

If you just look at that, that'll resolve it. What is the mechanics of desire? What do you have to do to desire something?

I want it. I—

Yes. So, how do you know that you want it?

Uh, it's a thought, a mental—

A mental thing which you give your belief to.

Yes, Father.

Isn't it? Then it becomes a desire.

Yes, sir.

So, then it feels a bit like a knot inside us.

Oh, yes, Father.

And then that knot seems to linger for a bit because it's activated by a belief over and over. And then when that knot is open, then you feel empty. You see? So that opening is the empty that we are talking about and the desire is the opposite process. You see?

Yes. So if we say that I'm using this ladder so diligently, why am I not going up?

Huh? It is because we are using it diligently to walk down.

Walk down. Okay, fine.

It's not about you. Are you saying that? No, it's stupid. Yeah. Desiring is grasping. You see, grasping is the taking a position that I am somebody. Can you desire for something without being somebody? Without taking yourself to be somebody?

No, Father.

You see, because what will that mean to you?

Yes, Father.

If you are beyond space and time, what in this world can mean anything to you? Nothing. You see, so to desire, there is an object of desire, but we've objectified ourself in the process. We can't do it without that, isn't it?

Yes, sir. Like unless you take yourself to be an object, you cannot desire an object.

Yes. So if I'm going too fast, tell me.

No, no, Father. This is so far—

Yeah. So if you take yourself to be an object, that is the shape we are talking about. You see, so empty is being empty from that shape. And desire is to take shape. You see, so when you take shape, it is temptation. It is desire. Okay. Because the mind offers some proposition on which we decide to take shape.

Unless you take yourself to be an object, you cannot desire an object. So if I'm going too fast, tell me.

No, no, Father. This is so far...

Yeah. So if you take yourself to be an object, that is the shape we are talking about. You see, so empty is being empty from that shape. And desire is to take shape. You see, so when you take shape, it is temptation. It is desire. Okay. Because the mind offers some proposition on which we decide to take shape. Now you see, it could be just a simple proposition of right and wrong. She is right, I am wrong—or mostly she's wrong, I am right. This kind of position gives shape to us. Not really, but a presumed shape; an idea of somebodyiness to us. And in that idea of somebodyiness, we are not empty. You see, so contemplative prayer or the invitation—I don't know how this is being said—but the invitation to go to God to bless our contemplative prayer is the emptying of ourselves. So it is said that the last desire we must have is that we have no more desire. You see, so that becomes a pointer then, and then let go. And that is then the invitation to God to lift us up in a way.

A simple way to look at it is that He will not bother you if you're too busy. Sorry, if... He will not bother you unless you're too busy. Unless—what am I saying? Other way around. If you're too busy, He will not bother you. Is that what I said? I said that kind of thing. So if you're too busy planning, if you're too busy resolving some things, if you're too busy wanting, if you're too busy being averse to something, then He allows us to be busy. The path to being desirous of God is not through desire. That's why spirituality is different. The path to satisfaction with God is to be empty of ourselves.

So, I don't know whose quote that was, but all of these, the signal is that in spirituality our desire for even these holy-sounding things can get in the way. So we must be empty of wanting peace or wanting spiritual experience or anything like that. So we cannot say that either as a blame or as a happening that something happened to me that I was in desire, because nobody can force us to be busy with regards to God. The mind can only offer. It cannot force. It can sound forceful, but it really can't force. If it could, then there was no room for spirituality at all. If it could, it would. And then there's no room for spirituality. How's the moon time? Was there another prompt? Where am I? I should stop posting these. I get in trouble for all these people saying all this.

It's Thomas Keating. He says persistent guilt is a psychological dysfunction rather than a spiritual virtue because divine forgiveness is instantaneous upon the act of being sorry. If you have guilt feelings for more than 10 or 15 seconds, it's neurotic. Definitely crazy. As soon as you're sorry, God has totally forgotten whatever our faults were. I feel it is something we, or at least I, fall into on a spiritual path because we're trying to be cautious about not falling into traps and then we focus on that too much.

Then we focus on that too much instead of just letting go when we see it.

Yes. And a lack of faith.

Yeah. No. Like what is the problem of the prodigal son? Lack of... that we don't have faith because our faith in our heart shows us that He is compassionate and merciful. You see, but we apply our own judgments that we use on ourselves and on the world to ourselves in this situation instead of realizing that we are dealing with the Most Merciful One. That's why in that sense did Hanuman Prasad Poddar Ji say that He doesn't know how to do even justice; He knows how to do only mercy. So suppose that the Most Powerful One, the only Powerful One, knows how to do only mercy and you are repentant for whatever has happened. Then finish. Then to carry around guilt then is to not recognize either that you're truly repentant or that He is all-powerful and only merciful.

You see, it sounds very strange to us because it is very different from how the world operates. In the world, to hold a resentment is very normal and then it takes years for the resentment to go. You see? So this instant forgiveness, no matter what the provocation was, seems too much. Then was a sage like Hanuman Prasad Poddar Ji lying? Because we have this very... the mind has this very hypnotic way of discarding what the sages have told us. I don't know what it does to us, including myself. I don't know what it does to us. So it just makes it kind of... okay. So when you hear that He is only merciful and He's not even concerned with justice, only mercy, that should be the best news because there's no room for then our individual guilt if we recognize the error of our ways, which there's only one error ever. There's only one sin, which is to hold back on our love, is to not love. So if we recognize that we did not come from love or we are not coming from love and we recognize the error of that way, then we are forgiven.

You see, now the mind says, 'But that's just way too convenient.' It is because that's how we operate in the world. Yeah. You see, it is said like that in the world: 'The cat ate nine hundred mice and now is going for Hajj.' That sounds like it's a very skeptical way of looking at things. Now our mind doesn't like this because somewhere the mind feels like God will get fooled like we get fooled. Somebody taking Him for a ride. That doesn't happen. It's impossible to do. Like we can go to the courtroom in this realm and we can try and fool the judge. So in the same way, we'll try and fool God also. You can't do that. You see, but to stretch it out saying, 'I am so bad, I'm like this, I'm this way' is a full lack of faith in the Father who loves us. That 'I'll never be accepted back' is just a way of avoiding God. Basically, so many times our lamentations are another avoidance technique by the mind to avoid God.

So that's the two-punch of Maya. Learn to have complete faith in His mercy, in His power firstly, and the way that He is. That's why it is very important to read the stories of Ram, Krishna, Jesus, because they give us an insight into how He is. King David... but if you look at the lives of the incarnations, you'll find so much to learn. Like, is there anyone that Jesus did not forgive, including Judas? Imagine that your best friend, or one among your best friends, sells you literally for two pieces or two bags of silver and you are being crucified in the most painful, tortured and crucified in the most painful manner, and yet to have only forgiveness. So if the Son is like that, how would the Father be? You don't learn because you're too busy poking holes. 'And now what about... but what about... but what about...' Yeah. So leave that. Just what about this? Isn't there something to learn from this?

So without this faith, without this forgiveness and compassion, or at least the intention to have this forgiveness and compassion, all talk about just being empty is just going to be... the mind comes with grievance. If you haven't forgiven, where are we going to be empty? So never get into this sort of trap which says that 'I can hold a grievance, I don't forgive, but I am just going to be empty and be with God.' It's just not possible. Why has Maya planted those seeds in us of grievances and resentments? So we've given Maya our remote control. Sitting in deep sadhana, everything is starting to get recollected and then: 'What about this one? Are you okay with what he did to you?' So it's a full finishing of a school. It finishes us off. Spirituality is the finishing school. Can't hold any pride, any resentment, any guilt, any unworthiness, any desire.

Those thoughts that were shared about perfectionism and also about how not to hold on to guilt, not to be striving to be perfect... they kind of also... really good, a lot of wealth hidden in that actually. And also because I felt that, you know, you can't really... unless you do that with yourself, you can't do it to others. So if you don't forgive yourself and move on, and you don't see... do you see yourself as a big doer who did all this wrong? The other side of it is you also are a doer who does all this right. That's equally bad. It's sort of... and then you also are seeing the person in front of you as a doer who's doing all wrong, all right. And the same with perfectionism. 'I'm so hard on myself, I'm going to think the person in front is an idiot.' And it just... the whole thing is like a real rigmarole. It's so easy for us, you know, in the first steps in spirituality, it's like we let down that we shouldn't think that we are great. 'I'm not great, I'm just ordinary' and all that. But that 'I am' is still adding all that stuff to it, right? 'I am ordinary, I am a sinner, I am guilty, I am this.' And so it is actually so much bondage in all this way of thinking.

So they're great pointers. They were so easy for us to pick up half of everything. Just remember that place of love. That's the sin, because it's only in that place where I can truly repent and I'm immediately forgiven. Because here, this is just a verb, it's just a logical repent. It's not really like a heart... like you see that you were whatever, mean or whatever that was. But only when I'm in that space can I see my true... I mean, a true repentance. And from there only you feel like when you really, you know, like you really ask, you feel it's gone. And I had forgotten that, Father. I had forgotten that piece of peace because I was irritated with... yeah. And I had forgotten that. I mean, my mind was telling me something logically, you know, but I hadn't gone to that place of love. I hadn't gone there. I forgotten you. Thank you.

Let's take next left. Lefty. No, I feel you've gone too far. Somehow do diagnosis. No, not there. I'm there for sure. What happens when you... so done. Oh, mystical. How much you struggle for a point? What is the point? We struggle for a point. Fifteen-love. Okay. Serious. Serious. So what is a point? A point is a unit of... like, 'What is the point of what he's saying?' can become a struggle. Like, nobody knew in Satsang, otherwise they would have left by now, but 'What's the point of what he's saying?' What is... so what is the point? A unit of meaning, the unit of understanding, the unit of conceptual knowledge. What does that give to us?

A unit of peace. Yes. Reason.

No. Reason. Reason. What is reason different from a point? So what in us does it satisfy, like a meaning or reason? What does it give to us?

Right feeling. Having that idea versus not having that idea.

What changes in us? I'm saying that suppose you didn't have this idea that the point of sitting on the floor is so that your eighth chakra gets activated—that's why all Indians sit on the floor. So now you have this point. So what did you get? I'm just asking.

Yeah. So you found what? You found like a unit of truth. So that unit of truth satisfies what in us? That unit of truth that we get in this conceptual way satisfies what?

Clarifies confusion. So confusion is at what layer? Mental, intellectual. So something was a bit... feeling a bit leaky and something seems to plug that leak. Now besides this play of leaky roof and plugging in, what is in our existence? What exists? It just seems to place need interpretive help.

Good point. Is that place... does that place which is not the leaky roof nor the plugging in, does that need help in interpretation, translation? How can I conceptualize that? Or do I even need to? Exactly. See, so is God of the heart helpless without the concepts of the intellect or the mind? It seems like no intellect is needed to know the pureness of Being because that's how we are all born. But there's so much confusion that's implanted after that. So it's almost like it feels like the reverse needs to be done to some extent to clear that dust again or whatever it is. And then it becomes a habit.

Need help in interpretation? Translation. How can I conceptualize that? Or do I even need to?

Exactly. See, so is God of the heart helpless without the concepts of the intellect or the mind?

Seems like no intellect needed to know the pureness of being because that's how we are all born. But there's so much confusion that's implanted after that. So it's almost like it feels like the reverse needs to be done to some extent to clear that dust again or whatever it is. Um, and then it becomes a habit which comes in one's way. Like as for me, I'll just speak for myself. Um, let's take lightning strikes killing people. Yeah. Um, in the good old days we would say, you know, it's beyond the human intellect. It's God's will. We should not interfere. And eventually somebody figured out that if you put a metallic conductor, it can save lives or whatever. Now that success of solving that external problem makes one believe that, oh, I have to use thought to solve these problems, and then you get stuck in a loop. Um, so it's always... but what if the scientist told us, the one who even solved this, what if they told us—mostly they tell us—that I thought and thought and thought and thought, and then I didn't think, then there was a moment of insight. Right? Isn't it? Mostly if you look at most of the great discoveries, they've told us that there's a moment of insight which is a separate region from thought. So if that is the realm of spiritual and scientific insight... but Father, that split between God and the mind is set up because when that scientist was trying to solve that problem, even through intuition and not the mind, there were probably fifty people running around saying, 'This is God's will,' and creating confusion. And so then multiple instances of this just creates this...

You are not saying it is God's will from God's will. You also think it is God's will from... yeah, mind is the peddler of confusion. Yeah. How strange must it be that we, and I continue to get into this trap, that once I leave God then I'll be able to resolve something. And even more strange is that if I leave the place which is the mountain place or come to the place which is the mountain place, then I'll be able to find the sun. And what is the mind's version of the sun? What is it? Imagination. Dark, empty visual. If you want Nirguna, then dark, empty ritual. If you want Saguna, then all imagination is available to you. You see, what else do we want according to the mind? If we say dazzling darkness also, it'll present a dazzling darkness like a solar eclipse. So how to leave this one? How to leave that? Uh, the realm of make-believe is Maya. And even Maya is powerless if met with the full picture. Maya's power is only that we meet it halfway through.

Like if you were to meet this moment in its full picture, there's no trouble. But what do we leave out? What I call the elephant in the room. The full picture. The full picture being: are there only perceptions here? Are they only perceptions here? So if you were not to leave out the unperceivable, try and suffer. It fills us up. There is no room for suffering. You see, have you noticed this? Yes. So it can seem like while we are in this waking state, it can seem like it is all just perceptions. Now in this moment, is that true? A simple question like 'Who witnesses these perceptions?' can be used to look at the truthiness of that statement. And you realize, even like most of us in Advaita even conceptually, that that is not true. But try to find it more than conceptually. But even that conceptual reminder helps right now. Where are you witnessing all of these perceptions from? As a perception you're witnessing them? Can a perception witness other perception?

So even if we were to look at the full picture—and we have to use that language, we have to use that language although it can't really be looked at in the traditional thing—but if you were to recognize the full picture of what this is, then what is the suffering? Now if we insist that the bottom half of the elephant is all there is, then what to do? Then obviously the legs will feel like pillars only. So then within that half picture we make claims to the truth, but that claim is already negating the proverbial better half. So if there were two sides of this photograph, on one side the cup is empty and the other side the cup is full. Is the cup empty or full? You see? And this is what the human condition is. This fighting about this. But who's looking fully? Is your life just a bundle of perceptions right now? So the one who sees that there's some, let's call it light for the moment, beyond perception. What is the nature of that one who sees that?

See, so it becomes a condition, a conditioning, that we forget all of this and take ourselves to be a bundle of flesh, just a picture, a set of perceptions in this realm. But that is not our most direct experience also. Nobody's experiencing themselves as just a body. They're experiencing the sensations and perceptions that we call a body within the soup of perception. So what is the truth here? It's like asking: is the cup empty or full? On one side of the frame it is empty, other side it is full. So what is the truth here? To recognize truly our helplessness against a simple question like this, because we claim to be the peddlers of truth of so much of our lives and yet we can't talk about really the truth of this moment. You see, so that is humility. Do not make a claim beyond our actual insight.

Now this question: what is the truth of this moment? No matter how much you squeeze into your head, you cannot fully answer. So then where to go? You see the problem is that are we able to meet the question at all? Right now half of you must be gone. 'What is he on?' And it's not a question of blame. It's a question of there is a resistive force which doesn't allow you to meet the most simple question. It likes more complexity. You see, if I tell you, what is the story of your life so far? Huh? Say, what is the story of this moment right now? You see, can we spot the absurdity in that at least? At least then we should spot something is wrong somewhere. No? How is it that we are able to jump in and say, 'Yes, I thought you'd never ask, this is the story of my life.' But one moment of your life, if I ask you, if you're being honest, you will find a doorway there to a greater truth. If you're being stubborn, then you will try to frame it into very tiny frames.

So a simple question like 'Is it only perceptions here right now?' can lead you to the—don't frame any of this—but can lead you to the doorway of the temple that I'm talking about. What is the difficulty in answering this question? What is the difficulty in this question? It needs an observation beyond perception, isn't it? To be able to report on the isness of something which is beyond perception. What tool will we use for that? So whether we are in wonder about whether God is here or the fact that God is here, or in wonder about this fact that here, that which we call here, perceptions are just a set of moving imagery—in that, what is the substratum on which they happen? That is a great wonder. It is a great awe.

This year my evil attempt is to try and bring some wonder and awe back into spirituality. Our spirituality, not the gearedness and go, but you know, this kind of, 'Yes, Nirguna Brahman, I know I'm Nirguna Brahman, but you know...' But what? You just made a claim that you are beyond the universe. And how quickly we can go to, 'Yes, yes, but you know what happened is that my pressure cooker is not working.' So what? That conceptually we've just normalized and made a part of like a spiritual jargon that the highest, the Self, God, Nirguna, Saguna... you see, this year let's try and like feel it, not at the feeling level, but just feel it at a more primal level because it's not a lack of concepts now. All of you have all the concepts we need. All of us have all the concepts we need. But that form of denial which is like a normalizing of that which is beyond normalization. You see, we are stuck in that.

So let's see if we can break out of the like the chai shop satsang mode, like chai shops of these spiritual places that everybody talking about big, big things but there's no wonder in that. 'Yes, yes, I knew I was a Self seven years back.' What? What do you think you are? There's no fragrance in that. There's no power in that. There's intellectual stuff. So let's, on the weighing scale of our intuition and the weighing scale of our faith, let's weigh the concepts we already have also. This is really... we don't need to add new ones. If you just meet what we already know or think we know, that itself will... is it? Can something be true and ineffable at the same time? Is a good start. But the question was more: is it a possibility that whatever that X is can be true and ineffable at the same time? So you answered that with an illustration, with an example of yes. You see, now is there a boundary which says it can only be love? No. That's it. Is it a situation where the exception makes it the rule? So we got the love exception. Now everything else has to comply to this rule. It's not that. So that itself should fill us with wonder.

So, so every problem then is at the level of the pressure cooker, right? There is no gradation in the ultimate way that you're speaking. And which is why it is seemed so hard to read Maharaj, Nisargadatta Maharaj sometimes, because he's not allowing any accommodation for any problem. Right? He never allows. He just says, 'In my world there are no problems.' And that's why it feels like a constant beating. Um, but there seems to be no other way than that seemingly merciless way, the way he...

Yeah. No. No. So, how do you as a teacher meet that? Because it's at one level it's true, everything is a pressure cooker problem. So, I feel that the way God has moved things here is sometimes like this, sometimes like that, sometimes like this, sometimes like that, which is more troublesome I guess for all of you. You see, but just to not be conclusive in our words even about that which sounds very absolutist. No, you see, but in the sense that that conclusiveness in the point of making one statement is almost unavoidable unless you start adding 'maybe,' 'could be' to everything. So then what you do is you go the other way. So sometimes left, left, sometimes right, right.

Because if we figure that what is the danger of being relentless in that way—and in the way this expression was for a few years—is that that can easily be templatized and become a truth in the head. You see, which is the opposite of his intention of course, because everything that he's sharing is meant to take us beyond the head. But we can just look at the few main concepts in 'I Am That' and take that to be true, and then that can be... we can also beat anyone with that same stick without having that insight. Anyone can take an almost scriptural text like that and conceptualize it and use it as a stick to beat up others like he used to. He used to with good intention to bring them to the heart. But we can do a lot of Advaita policing with that. You see? And then what do the others learn from us in that process? They learn to do the same thing. You see? So we spread that. Okay. And there's a lot of that being spread in modern spirituality. 'Don't you know that you are not this?' without any movement from the heart of whether what is that that is needed in this moment?

So can we have a pathway to God or like a million pathways to God which are not really possible to define? It's very troublesome to that which, that leaky roof which wants a point, you see. So I was saying that in a singular statement it's very difficult because the way language is designed is to make a point. No? So then what you have to do is just constant rotation. Just constantly keep turning the car around so that the passengers can't settle—at least not settle in the wrong place.

So can we have a pathway to God, or like a million pathways to God which are not really possible to define? It's very troublesome to that which—that leaky roof which wants a point, you see. So I was saying that in a singular statement, it's very difficult because the way language is designed is to make a point, no? So then what you have to do is just constant rotation. Just constantly keep turning the car around so that the passengers can't settle—at least not settle in the wrong place. Is it something like this? Guilty as charged, because a half-cooked chicken is going to be terrible without the rotation. Half is suntan, half is moon time.

Is it a fun ride for the mind?

Of course not. Well, it can be if you want to have fun with it. But when we are grasping for a point, then maybe not. And if you look at it, even somebody like Maharaj made it very clear: 'In the afternoon I have bhajan and we talk about bhakti; in the evening we talk only Advaita.' That is round and round. So how to meet Maharaj fully? Was he a bhakta or an Advaitin? It depends on the time of the day. Of course. Then where is Krishna now? What comes and goes is not real. So all these temples you have and pujas you have, right? 'You don't need a guru in form. You're the biggest form of a guru in the world.' Huh? No, I'm just saying—I'm not at all casting any—far be from me to cast aspersions. I'm just saying that I can't help it, no? Because a statement has to sound like a statement. It's only when taken fully do you realize it's all around. What is our path? You go around the concept.

One of my favorite spiritual teachers is Swami Satchidanandendra Saraswati. You can't be a disciple if you can't say his name! So his path of teaching is Adhyaropa-Apavada, which means that it's a very simple way of saying: first you make a claim, then you say that claim is nothing, and then you fall into the truth. 'Brahman is all there is. Brahman is all there is. Brahman is all there is.' Then: 'Brahman is nothing. Brahman is nothing. Brahman is nothing.' See? So he took from the Upanishads; he showed us the pathway of Adhyaropa-Apavada, which is the claiming, claiming, claiming very forcefully, and then completely denying that claim. So when the sages used all these techniques, you see, what is the intention? It is Zen. It is Zen because if you can say it is Zen, then it is not Zen; therefore, it's not Zen.

If you treat your mind and intellect softly, softly, it's a tool to be handled just gently. If you become strong with it, then nothing but suffering and pride. A lot of—what can we really say? We can't even say that. We can't say anything. So many years back, I looked at my Facebook and I felt like the whole world is becoming spiritual. I just looked at it like everybody's posting quotes from sages and everybody's talking Advaita and, you know, doing all of these things. Then I remembered I had another Facebook account for work. So I logged into that one, and in that account, it felt like the whole world is only interested in materialistic things and grasping and, you know, what they are buying, where they're eating, where they're traveling. It's only all of that.

So the so-called echo chambers of social media became very apparent to me that day—that it gives us a picture that the whole world is like that. Actually, it is just a feed. Your feed is like that because it's programmed to engage you. So that's how Maya works. It will feed us what we want to engage with. So if we have a propensity for pride, it'll find situations for us to feel pride. Propensity for guilt? It'll create situations where it doesn't want to do extra hard work. But when you start letting it go, then all these tricks start to fall flat. The best part is it's quite nice, isn't it? To let go of the mind. Quite nice. Initially, it's a struggle. And we must use the tools which we've been given. But nobody lets the mind go and complains, 'I was so much better off with the mind judging right and wrong in every situation, myself with desire and a vision.' We often do the same thing very fast. Who wants to really live like that? Can't even say.

What is the truth? What did you send me? She sent me a reel. What do you hear? Yeah. What have you been in? What the—it's okay. I have quite a bit. I see you. I just kept hearing the first one. What is it? Green—is that 'Green Needle' thing? I kept hearing 'Green Needle.' Oh, so see, still caught up in thought after all these years. Okay, clear without you. If you're thinking, you would say, 'But...' Has anybody heard 'Brainstorm'? 'Brainstorm.' I have heard it too often; it's become conditioning now. I need to do some self-inquiry: who's hearing 'Green Needle'? Oh man. Wait, you can just ring it on. I know you've been... still 'Green Needle.' I'm obviously very attached to 'Green Needle.' Yeah. Yeah. I felt it'll be like the McGurk effect. Then I tried not to look at the words, but it was still the same phone. Green. You hear green though. What do you hear? Oh yeah. Yes. Differently.

What is the truth? I have to sit so far. It's a good thing we broke this wall, huh? You remember there was a time where I was like, 'Why do we have to break this wall? There are never going to be more people than this.' One side of this—and also in COVID days—the couch used to be... we could squeeze in too hard and that gives more satsang feel. Struggle to hear it, and it must be really valuable.

Father, if God is always forgiving, I don't quite understand what the idea of hell means. Isn't it like a punishment? It appears in all religions as far as I know. Christianity speaks of an eternal hell. Is it more like we create our own experience of hell when we are not in God's presence and we cling to ego and falsehood? Yes. Hell is God saying, 'Okay, have it your way.' I said 'The Good Place' was a very good show. It was a little non—not so entertaining, so I didn't really finish it, but it asked a very important question. Really an important question: like, how do we know this is not the bad place or the good place? If it is about separation, both are here. I don't feel like it's about the roasting and the heat and things like that. It's more about—because we know the stories of so many sages that in their love for God and being in His presence, they went through all of this happily.

To cling to Maya is the only hell that I am aware of. And to cling to God's feet is the only heaven that I am aware of. You know, the trick about hell is only that it makes you believe it is heaven, or makes you believe in the possibility of it becoming heaven. Just that one step, one bunch of wealth, one happy relationship, one something, healthy body, one understanding. The constant carrot of heaven is the very premise of the show. And you can't blame me for spoilers now; it's at least 10 years old. They say they told them that they have been selected to come to heaven. All of them are very happy. And this one, Kristen Bell—Kristen Stewart? No, Kristen Bell—she realizes that there's been an error. She got misdirected. She was meant to go to hell, but she was sent here. So throughout her time, at least in the first season, she's worried about whether she's getting found out. So she's living in the so-called heaven with a constant worry, anxiety about being found out and what's going to happen and just managing all of that, you see? So then what do they realize? They are in hell. You see, because in heaven you would not be like that.

Anyway, I didn't put it across well, but we're getting a sense of it—that you go there and you live in anxiety and you're constantly trying to manage things. It's a very good question to ask: like, if we are living like this on this world, then do we need another hell? Is this not enough? We constantly have to manage things and we constantly, like in this also, in this impostor syndrome: 'Oh, I have this now, or do I really deserve it, and will it be taken away from me?' and all this kind of stuff. So she finds out, or one of them finds out—she finds out that this is hell, that they're being tortured. That it looks all nice on the outside, but actually they're being tortured through this. You see? Where will you live? What will your house be like? Will you get to live in this nice accommodation? Who will be your partner? All of these things. So she comes to the conclusion at the end, which is not true to form, but she realized that this can't be heaven.

They wipe out the memory because they wanted season two or something. They end up remembering. Okay. Like some sort of memory. It's like a reincarnation type idea. Yes. Oh yeah. Okay. You sure now? That's like the line in Hotel California: 'This could be heaven or this could be hell.' And just move to a Zen monastery. To take the money. Yeah, God is the profit kind of. I have to watch this show, 'The Good Place.' Talk about the truth.

So she said that whatever your current level of—like what you've read in the Psalm or whatever was at that moment for you—that is the truth and you're living that and it's not wrong. But when you move, when you come into a higher insight, then you leave that one. And then, I mean then, meaning like there's no—at the end, you know, she basically said that... I forgot what she actually said right at the end. I have to read it again. I think it was that there would be one place where there would be like one truth which everybody would—sorry, actually, yeah, something... there would be like that one. But she made it really clear that at every level or whatever, you're going to live that truth. You're going to experience the world as you've understood it to be from the scripture itself. And that there are more and more and more deeper understandings of that same sentence or that same thing.

Yeah, that's what she said. Do you go lower to go higher, or no? Yeah, that's the ladder thing I was just thinking about. It is all one-time enlightenment. This pill to the right. My okay.

You know, I wanted to send you a spiritual—I mean, every time I thought I did send it to you, but there is something stopping me, wanting me to observe myself more. About today, the sister who is behind me, she said she's finding it easier to be in God's presence. So I'm kind of feeling the same thing from the past couple of months. And I'm sure mostly people who are experiencing this, that they're finding it easier to be in God's presence. It's not an overnight thing. They must have been working hard and years of practice, maybe months of practice. But what I realized is that once we find it easier, then God also makes us realize that it was all His love, grace, and help—His help. Truly His help that made this path easier. Of course, it's a lifetime project. You don't have to be excited and stop here.

I still—there are a lot of things you have taught as Father, but I just firmly held a couple of things which really helped me. That too, still God makes me realize that it was His grace. And I remember the first message I sent you last year in August, and I asked you, 'Father, can I ask for material things like job, wealth, house, relationship from God?' Even though I know that He's the only source of provision. And I was expecting you will say, 'Yeah, you can,' but you just made one statement: 'Only seek Him, my child.' You said that. And I thank you for that, for seeing that potential that I could implement that in my life. And it took me months to work on that by God's grace.

And there was a time that I told God, 'You know that, God, even though I'm not saying this in words, that I have desires. I am not saying this from my mouth, but the desire is still in my heart and You know that. But I promise You, God, that I won't say it in words from my mouth. I'll do that at least by Your grace.' And I did that till now. I did not ask God for anything. But that was a little difficult, but it was coming along, God making it easier. But then all of a sudden, I come across your book, 'True Surrender.' And yeah, sorry... okay, something... I know that 'True Surrender' was a compilation of your satsang. We never actually printed it. Was it here in the library?

I told God that I won't say it in words from my mouth, but I'll do that at least by Your grace. And I did that until now; I did not ask God for anything. But that was a little difficult, though it was coming along. God was making it easier, but then all of a sudden I came across your book, True Surrender.

Okay, something I know that.

True Surrender.

True Surrender was a... it's a compilation of your satsang. We never actually printed it.

Was it here in the library?

Yeah, but I printed... I took the PDF and then I got like ten books. Somebody requested on Facebook about your books and Adrian—his name is Adrian, right?

Yes.

Yeah, he sent a message to him that 'I have sent you through your email.' And then curiously I asked him, you know, 'Can you please send me?' And he sent like ten or twelve books. And all of a sudden my eyes were on True Surrender because I wanted to do that, and that could have helped me with this desire thing. And when I started reading it, I felt like it was meant to come in that moment, that book, and that really helped me. That shifted so much and that made it easier, Father.

Yeah.

And as soon as that became easier, then the second thing: in one of the satsangs you said about instant forgiveness. Yes. And that was the thing, that was another project that came into my life and I was like, I wanted to hit God, I want to work on it. And because I live in a locality where there were three people whom I hated, whom I never wanted to forgive in my life. One was my brother-in-law. My cousin, she passed away eighteen years ago; she committed suicide and people blamed her husband because they were having a fight and what so. I never looked at him. Since we live in the same locality, I would come across him and then I turned my face. Generally, in the Muslim tradition, they greet each other with 'Salam Alaikum,' like 'Peace be upon you,' but I never did that. And then he understood and he also never spoke to me.

And there was another, my neighbor, who was my father's age. He was like a father figure to me, and once he was beating his child so badly that I had to intervene and I pushed him and then I shouted at him. After that, I never spoke to him. He just lives next door. And third was my aunt, my mother's sister, and something happened and I told her, 'I will never come to your house.'

I see.

I said, 'When I talk to you, you also don't talk to me,' even though she always loved me. So that was also like a few years ago. So when you told this 'instant forgiveness,' that was in my mind all the time and there was some inner voice which was saying, 'I can do it, you can do it.' And I had full faith that I can do it, Father. But there was something which was... I needed that push. And for that, then I messaged you that, 'Father, I want to be in your presence.' And then I came here for three months. Even though there was no such thing happening, there was something in me which was telling me, you know, 'Just go. Even if you have to meet him once in a month, it should be fine.' And I'll tell you the reason later how that helped me.

So I came here and by God's grace, satsang also started after a few days. And those three people were still in my mind, but things became easier when I was here for three months. So when I went there, the first person I interacted with, he was my neighbor, of course. So he was just sitting there. I reached early morning and he was there, and there is a voice: 'Okay, three months you spent with your Father and you learned about spirituality and you wanted to not just do it.' So I faced him and I said, 'Salam Alaikum.' And he replied back and he asked me, 'Where were you?' And then I said, 'Yeah, I was in Bangalore.' All good, yeah. And since then we have started greeting each other.

So that was by God's grace, you know, that was one thing. And then after a few days I met my brother-in-law. He was just passing by and I looked at him and he looked at me and I greeted him with a smile, and he smiled back and he also greeted me back. And I could see there is a relief in him through his expression, that something freed him and to me also. And all this thing, people, it just happened, Father. They came across me. I didn't have to wait. Just one day, after two days, the other person. And then we got an invitation to a cousin's wedding and then my mom's sister came, my aunt, she was also present there. And so I just went to her and I didn't say anything, Father. I just went and hugged her. She hugged me. There was no exchange of 'sorry,' but there was love she could feel. And she said, 'You please come to my house.' I said, 'I will come tomorrow.' She said, 'What you would like to eat?' I said, 'You make whatever you want, I will come.' And she made all the dishes which I like, the desserts, and God just made it easier for her. Yeah. It felt like, you know, it was so simple and took so many years.

Then the third project came which was... in one of the satsangs you mentioned about the japa, the zikar, which we are doing and using God's attributes. I'm just paraphrasing, like I don't know the exact word, but you said it has to reflect through you, God's attributes, you know? And the same day or the next day, you mentioned in the group about this Sufi saint, Ibn Arabi.

Yeah.

And when I was reading about him, he mentioned that our goal should be... the japa, the zikar is fine, doing zikar and God's attributes is absolutely fine, but our goal should be that those attributes of God should reflect through you. And that hit me and I was like, 'I want to do it.' And it's very difficult, but I would love to do that. And at the same time, I also read from one of the Sufis that... what I'm trying to convey, Father, is all this I did, it only happened by God's grace.

Yes.

Now I started to see that, you know, there is nothing in our hand. We feel like, you know, 'I can do it,' but there is nothing I can do without His will, without His grace. There's nothing we can do. And that makes it easier and makes more sense. And no matter what, I have decided that no matter what somebody has done to me or will do to me, even though my mind will give all the logical reasons not to forgive, I would just forgive. I will just think of Jesus and I will just say, you know, 'Father, they do not know what they are doing, please forgive them.' I don't want to use my mind. I don't want to do anything. I just want to forgive.

So, I realized all this from the past couple of years being with you. It's not like I started reading about spirituality or started to walk on this path only from a couple of years ago. I remember I was in grade twelve. I had a friend who told me to start doing namaz and I was very influenced by him because he used to pray five times at that early age. So I also wanted to be like him and he would guide me, he would give me books. So this journey started from when I was maybe like sixteen or seventeen. So I read so many books, Father. I read the Quran so many times, like so many times. You can ask me anything from the Quran, I can tell you what is written. But that didn't change me. That didn't make any shift in me. Just knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge, knowledge. So it was like I was reading about swimming from the book, but I don't know how to swim. So these past couple of years, you taught me how to swim. I'm not saying I'm an expert in that now—it's a lifetime project—but you did help me. So that is the difference. And like you said, you know, those attributes of God should reflect from you, and we can see that reflecting through you, Father. I know you do not like to hear the praises, but we have to be appreciative of God. And I appreciate and I praise those attributes of God which are reflecting through you. And in that presence, we all are benefiting. And I love you, Father. Thank you so much. And thank you, Meera, for having trust in me and introducing me to Father. Thank you so much. Thank you, Father.

Very beautiful. Very beautiful report. I'm very touched by especially the three instances of forgiveness in the world. They can seem like such big things, especially your brother-in-law, to mend your relationships in this loving way. God's grace, and may His grace continue to guide you, to bless you. Full, full blessings. These are miracles: to forgive a brother or sister when they seem unforgivable. That's a miracle. And you're right, it can only happen by God's grace. But we have to turn towards Him. And when we keep our head turned towards Him, then He gives us the sign of His will, His strength, everything. Very good.