Consciousness Speaking With Consciousness… Personal Intervention Not Required - 26th November 2021

So we are not trying to come from being somebody who is bound—actually the one who is bound doesn't really exist—to somebody who is free, because the somebodiness is not freedom. It is the very bondage that we started this journey to see through, to transcend. So yes, just—and this is where trust and devotion can come in. The antidote to this fear which the mind can create, the antidote to this fearfulness of wobbliness, is just love and devotion and trust. So just trust grace, trust the Satguru, and you'll see that all this little popcorn jumping around is not that strong or that important. And it is just many times just a distraction mechanism.

I don't know if I need to say this next thing, but may I say it anyway? There is an idea that seems to be a strong idea that I need to have a conceptual framework in order to be able to navigate relationship, job, life, the world. And I just pray that that is seen through and, you know, if something needs to happen with that, it happens with it, you know.

Yes, thank you. Thank you for exposing that. In a way, we've had a conceptual framework since we were three years old. Since we were three years old, we've had language and concepts about meaning and what all of this is, you see. And yet when we look back—and you talked about relationship—so when we look back we just find that, 'Oh, I just happened to meet my partner in some way which is not part of our conceptual framework. I just happened to meet my master in a way which was not planned according to my conceptual framework.' And not just about relationship or meeting the master, but most things we look back and say, 'I just happened to be there and he said, "Do you want to work with me?"' So all these things happen when you look back, you see. So our conceptual framework which we have carried since we are very, very young has played very little part when we look in hindsight, you see. But because there is fear about what will happen in the future, so we feel like we need to rely a lot on that in the future.

But in the past, most of us, especially in satsang, are willing to admit that that had very little—'I just happened to be at the right place at the right time' or the wrong place at the wrong time, whatever it may be. So we're willing to accept grace when it comes to the past, but because there's a feeling of loss of control when it comes to the future, then we feel like, 'Okay, but I need this to navigate my relationship.' But we've used this to navigate relationships since we're very young, and how well that has worked is up to you to determine. So look at this as an experiment then and say, 'Okay, I've experimented that way, now can I experiment this way?' But the problem with experimenting in this way is that if you start the experiment with an expectation of an outcome, then you are still attached to the conceptual framework. So be truly open and empty is to just allow and see whether actually we become as vegetative or non-responsive or closed as the mind would have us believe. It may actually be the other way around. But again, I don't want to create any expectations by saying that. Fear of the unknown. So much love. Thank you.

Okay, let's go to Amol. A bit under the weather and I wanted to be there, but I wanted to stay away as well.

No worries, that's fine.

And some observation on the last couple of satsangs has really pulled the rug, especially that whack-a-mole guy one. Yes, it was always the guy who is pushing, right? It was very subtle to get and see that. Really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

So welcome. And can I just recap this point? Because it may be relevant for those who are hearing it for the first time and then we come to your question. So, like last satsang or the satsang before that, I sort of did a deep dive into the spiritual seeker itself, you see, and how that is as much the ego as every other identity that we have carried. But the spiritual seeker is very tricky because it will play with the conceptual knowledge of spirituality itself and it will be your checker guy saying, 'You're doing very well, you're getting this stuff, see how empty you are,' and also beat you up and say, 'See, you are completely not worthy of freedom because see how angry you're getting or lustful you're getting or whatever you're getting.' It will judge you on these kind of bases.

So what happens also is that—and that's how we also started—is that this one, you see, then takes on the position of using the spiritual knowledge that it has to sort of beat up the ego, but it itself is the ego. That's why I called it the whack-a-mole guy, you know, he's playing whack-a-mole, that game. So this becomes like our spiritual ego and it becomes so aggravated because we feel like the more we listen, the more we understand and the more we can spot the ego, you see. So what is happening is that I'm trying to do the mind bypass, but this guy comes in and says, 'Yeah, yeah, so next time I'll take care of this, you know, I'm not gonna believe my next thought, I'm just gonna be like chocolate.' And it's hearing all this instruction, but it's just elevating itself as a spiritual seeker or the spiritual understander or whatever, you see. And then what happens is because it is built on the premise of knowing, so even though the master types talk to you and say, 'But can we look?' 'Yeah, yeah, I have looked, you know, I know there's nobody here, I'm just the pure witnessing, I know,' you see. But that guy does not smell like pure witnessing. But you will not be able to smell it, you will not be able to smell it because there's an attachment.

It's just elevating itself as a spiritual seeker or the spiritual understander or whatever, you see? And then what happens is because it is built on the premise of knowing, so even though the master types talk to you and say, 'But can we look?' 'Yeah, yeah, I have looked, you know. I know there's nobody here. I'm just the pure witnessing. I know,' you see? But that guy does not smell like pure witnessing. But you will not be able to smell it; you will not be able to smell it because there's an attachment to the spiritual understanding.

So what happens is that most spiritual seekers in the world seem to be playing whack-a-mole with the ego—the ego itself playing whack-a-mole with itself—pretending to make spiritual progress but actually just trying to come to some sort of elevated understanding of how to exist in this world in a better way, you see? Because we tried everything else. We tried relationships and money and a better body, so we feel like, 'Now let's try spirituality; that might make us happy.' But the same one who wanted the other thing can also have this position of wanting the truth or reality. You can come. So that's an important point for us to know.

So, are we listening so that now I can make my life better because I have spiritual concepts or spiritual so-called knowledge, you see? Or are we listening to come to Atma Gyan or self-knowledge, which is beyond all perception and concept? Most of us actually don't feel like there's a third mode of knowledge. Like perceptual knowledge: 'I see it, therefore I believe it.' Conceptual knowledge: 'I may not see it, but I've been told by credible sources that the earth is moving so fast,' or it's a spherical shape, not this flat thing that I see. So we don't only rely on perceptual models; we also rely on concepts from credible sources.

So if I were to ask you, what else is there? What is your other way of knowing something? Because the sages have told us, 'No, you cannot know it as perception.' All perception is false; it comes and goes. And you may think and think and think, but you will not get God as a product of thinking, you see? So that should be the starting point of my inquiry. If these two ways are not the way to God, then what is left? See, what else do we have?

So that is where the pointers come in. And so the state may say, 'So how do you know that you exist, that you are here?' And initially you may feel like, 'Oh, I perceive the body,' you see? But many times you may not perceive the body, and you just wake up in that instant. The body sensation may not be that palpable for a moment, and yet you realize, 'I woke up.' So whose existence is there, you see? And who witnesses the absence of 'I am' and then the presence of 'I am'?

So a question like—that's why I call it the hammer—is the question of: Are you aware now? If you really checked, you will notice that you are not confirming your awareness through any perception. You cannot see it perceptually; otherwise, it would have a quality, it would have some attribute. But yourself, your Nirguna self, is empty of all these attributes, and yet it is possible to know, but impossible to know in the mind and impossible to know as a perception.

So if this point gets clear—and that's why I say every satsang—then the struggle of the spiritual seeker has no place. You cannot actually struggle to find the truth anymore because the struggle is only to try and look for something. 'Where is it?' Or try to solve something: 'X plus Y plus A B C equals 3,' something, something new. So you're trying to figure it out like that, or you're trying to look for it like, 'I can't find it. I lost my specs, you know, but I just looked everywhere and I just can't find them,' you see? You can struggle that way.

What is another way to struggle with knowledge? Are we going too fast? Is there another way to struggle with knowledge? Like the notion of a spiritual seeker is basically a struggler just trying to climb the mountain of truth till he reaches the pinnacle, or she reaches the pinnacle, of enlightenment; then a constant state of bliss will arise. This is the familiar narrative, isn't it? But what is the seeker using to seek the truth? What can the seeker use to seek the truth? Because perception they can't use and mind they can't use. Then yes, but what does that lead to?

So you hear a pointer like, 'Can you stop being?' or 'Are you aware now?' and what do you do with that? See, what could you do with that? Like the traditional way of hearing a pointer is to say, 'Okay, now this is it. I have to go here and then I have to find this,' isn't it? But 'Are you aware now?' is not a question you can answer in time. You cannot say, 'Okay, I'm going to find this out, so let me take the next 15 minutes and just... am I aware now? Where can I look?' You see, it cannot be solved that way. It's either instant or it's not at all. It's either before the instant, actually, or it's not at all, isn't it? So if it takes time, we're not doing it right. I mean, I rarely say something like that, but we have gone down the wrong path, you see.

So if you feel like a pointer like 'Am I aware now?' is something that you can do, then you're mistaken about that. Everything that you can do is in time, see? So it just has to either hit home like that, or you're just like visualizing, creating a dark empty space in your heads and saying that some idea... so how to meet the pointer which you hear in satsang, especially a direct one like that? There is no actual 'how to.' The minute we come to the 'how to,' we have already gone down the wrong path, isn't it? Otherwise, the personal intervention will not help. Your attempt to grasp will not help you. Just something has to be much more innocent and simple, simpler than that.

Just like: Are you aware now? Are you aware now? Is it... you know this, but not here, you see? Because your mind always needs time. But somebody like, 'Do you exist? Do you exist?' 'Well, I only know I exist because I...' That's already like in the story; it's too slow, you see? You've already confirmed your existence, but because you don't find a reason, you see, you may need to go to the mind and say, 'How do I really know?' you know? Because you're perceiving something and the old like scale story, the confirmation has happened much fresher, much before that, you see? Are you with me on this, all of us?

So if you can make it just simple like that, then the only struggle left is: What do I do without a struggle? You see? Because the spiritual seeker is so used to struggling and seeking something. Like this child told me that ever since I was a little girl, I've been seeking God. Now for some time she must be feeling like, 'Now what am I supposed to do?' So the mode of knowledge that is being pointed to in satsang is intuitive intelligence, self-knowledge, whatever we may call it. But it is not the mode of knowledge that we have used as humans traditionally in our life, you see.

And it is not something fresh in that way that it's not been there, but suddenly after coming to satsang it becomes available. But it is fresh because we learn to value this rather than what we have valued in the past. Because in the past we've asked for evidence. Like somebody visited my house yesterday. Suppose we say Amitabh Bachchan came to my house yesterday, then okay, it's coming from me so you may believe it, but it's not true or not. But if somebody, your children or somebody, tells you, 'Really? Show me a photo.' No, you want evidence, perceptual evidence. Or, 'Show me, did he give you autographs?' So we want some proof. Or, 'I visited Timbuktu yesterday.' 'So really? Where's the photo? I saw in your Instagram there's nothing.'

So without evidence we don't buy. But this you can't confirm. You can't confirm through traditional means. Like Mahesh was saying earlier, 'Okay, now is this freedom? Is this fear? But am I getting free? Is this disillusion? Do I want to be free?' All this stuff starts, you see? So this is what the trick the mind will use with you and say, 'Hey, okay, if you are aware now, then so what? And so what? How is that helping your life in any way?' And basically saying, 'Show me some benefit, some evidence, some proof of your freedom. Look at Ananta, how he talks. You're not saying like that,' you see? There must be some difference, isn't it? And what is the fastest thing? We are one, we are the same. So these are the tricks of the mind and I'm pointing them out so that when they appear to you, you recognize them and say, 'Father said that's a trick. Don't fall.'

Okay, let's come back to our... and even for the... I mean, you already talked about it at the moment, and the last one, last session, when you were calling everyone 'now, now.' So that really helped in one way. My struggle was always it's easy to come there, but it was like struggling to stay there. But yes, after that session, after your last satsang, I realized there is no need for continuation because you can be there every other moment, coming back to it. And that is really... that really helped in the last one week. And I'm trying to put it saying that, 'Okay, you'll be there at the moment. Next moment, don't continue from there. You can be there again.' And that's really helping. There's no fear of losing anything. There's no fear of losing that because you can see how natural it is.

You see how natural it is to just... you're here just naturally, actually, you see? To get caught up is more effortful. Even if it doesn't feel like that yet, it's fine. But you can see at least that it's always available, you see? Because I don't have to time my click and say, 'No, no, it's not a mahurat that I have to take like this is the whole column so I can't click,' or this is some other thing so I can't do it. Any point you can find that you are free right here. You just exist effortlessly. God, which we are looking for, is just here. The presence of this being that we seem to be chasing is just so available as my very presence, as your very presence.

And that which is the Absolute, you're just simply aware even of this. It's unchangeable, unshakable, this recognition of reality. But God, or consciousness, has given to itself the power to take itself to be whatever it can fathom. So the mind is also obviously its own creation as part of the Leela, as part of this Maya. So when the mind is doing its job, proposing your limited identity, proposing you as somebody who's like some tiny object sitting in this object or whatever the notion may be, you see, then adding on things like desire and doership to that fundamental motion. So these 3Ds then make this idea of 'me' as an identity or the ego.

But without that, you see, who has the tougher job? Right now you're free. So the mind has a tougher job, actually, but it has to keep proposing proposals to you. Like Guruji says, audition for your attention and belief. So it is the one having to do all the dance. But you as consciousness, you see, you have two modes of play. When you take yourself to be what the mind is proposing, then you play as if you're in hell. And then when you don't take yourself to be what the mind is proposing, you experience the openness of heaven. Both are here. So that's all that's really happening.

Yes, and the seeker's identity... almost all the list is true. I could check every box you mentioned. Like you feel you're very close and you try to ask questions like, 'What next?' or 'What is there for me?' or 'So what?' or keep on validating your progress. Because all your 100% checked for me and that is this...

Yeah, when the mind just operates with these tools, you see? It has these primitive tools which try to build a premise about you being this body-mind which is born, which will die, you see? And then within that game it tries to propose how you should be, how you need to exist, what is better, what is freedom, what is love. It has no real answers to any of these but tries to get you involved in trying to resolve the problem.

Your progress, because all your 100 checked for me, and that is this. Yeah, when the mind just operates with these tools, you see, it has these primitive tools which tries to build a premise about you being this body-mind which is born, which will die, is it? And then within that game, it tries to propose how you should be, how you need to exist, what is better, what is freedom, what is love. It has no real answers to any of these but tries to get you involved in trying to resolve the problem at the level of intellect rather than just meeting yourself in a more open, in an emptier way. Thank you. So welcome. I'm very happy, very happy to hear your report. Very good. See you soon personally. Thank you. Okay, let's go to Shivoham.

Lastly, yeah, I wanted to ask for a prayer. Yeah, because I have been checking the possibility to come to India, but it seems that for now, Italians are not allowed to come to India. Yeah, only the only way I could come is work reasons or something like that. For me, that's funny because we had a very sweet child from Germany who came and spent a couple of weeks here with us. Maybe within the menu, we have some difference. Yes, I've been checking and some of the countries, they can come easily, but some like Italy, they are not allowed right now. And so yeah, I wanted to ask for you to pray and yeah, and let's see what happened.

Full prayers, full blessings. And the Father, I wanted to keep checking with you. Yeah, to keep checking what is here, what is here. Yes, yes, it is. Let's see if we can check everything that I'm talking about, okay? All of us. Sorry, sorry. Let's check if all of us can check and have a direct experience of everything that I'm really talking about, so much that I'm speaking of. So, firstly, there can be this idea that like most of those who come to satsang come because they are tired of suffering and they have an idea to do things. Now, let's get together, whether without taking a notion, which is a mind proposition, to be true, without giving it the truth value. Yes, whether it is possible to suffer this right now, open and empty naturally. That's God's gift to God. Then to suffer, you need to buy into a limited idea about yourself. So let the ideas come and let them go. See if it is possible to suffer without picking up an idea, even if the idea is saying, 'Oh, but the picking up happens automatically.'

Who is doing the picking up? Let those ideas also come and go. Try to suffer without a notion. Suffer notionlessly. And don't just do it because the masters have told you, like Papaji said, 'To be happy you need nothing, but to be unhappy you definitely need at least one thing.' So don't rely on the words as the masters; check for yourself. Notionlessly unhappy, suffering? I'm not talking about pain, by the way. Pain can exist naturally in the body. Try to suffer without an idea. Is it just difficult or impossible? Suffering without an idea? Just look who's been able to suffer notionlessly. I have to retire from satsang because then that is the fundamental of what I'm sharing. Clear? So do not give truth value or take the mind's version of what is to be true, you see. It means freedom from suffering, and simple as that. Because without that version, you are not a limited entity. You are not something that can be attacked, you see. You are then what the scriptures are reminding you of: cannot be cut, cannot be burnt. You are that pure reality.

So this part is clear. Most are looking for the end of suffering. The end of suffering is available right here, right now, unless you buy into the notions of Consciousness itself being held hostage to the mind and being forced to believe the mind. So that is not your true seeing; that is buying a notion. There is nothing that can force God to believe the mind. So this is Consciousness speaking with Consciousness. Satsang is Consciousness speaking with Consciousness. That's why right in the beginning I said the personal intervention is not required. You just have to gently just pay attention. Everything else is fine.

So this part is seen. Then we come to spirituality for the direct insight into God. We've heard enough about God, you see. We've had experiences also in the past, but now we want to really meet God in some way. That is what the spiritual seeker in some way is also wanting. So how to meet God? Just try to stop being. Don't be for a moment. See if you can stop being. If you don't exist anymore, is it clear that you exist? It may not be clear to the mind, and don't worry about the mind's answer, but it's clear to you that you exist. So this being, this existence, is whose presence? Does it have a limitation, a boundary? Is it personal in any way? Does it have wants and preferences? Was it born? Notice that your existence, your presence, just is. It's already here. And this presence is whose presence? It is the only being, actually. So if the only being, the greatest being, is what we call God, then this is the only God. So there is no distinction. As Shankara told, this being itself is Atma and there is no other Atma but this. So it is the Paramatma. So this is one being, not two. So discover this very existence.

Now your mind only has one job, which is to convince this being itself that it is limited or personal. All its proposals are about that. All of its propositions, all of its conjectures, all of its projections are about that. So this is the highest vibration, the primordial Om that you will need. In this cusp between unmanifest and manifest, there is your being, and everything that is manifest is this being itself, but not in a way that your mind thinks. So this can be said only intuitively, you see, because your mind's version of what I just said is like there's this space, but there's a super space within which this space exists, but both are spatial. But that's not true, you see. Your being is beyond time and space, but that your mind cannot fathom. So those kind of things which you read in scriptures and from the mouths of the teachers are only from intuitive insight, and you have that intuitive insight as well. Because when you try to look for a limitation to this being, you won't find it. Although the taste of this primordial vibration may be in your heart region, or some of you may feel it in your head or wherever, that doesn't really matter. So the tasting of the presence of being may be localized, but that doesn't limit the being in any way, but can help the mind in some way to create the notion of you being something contained within this object made of food, which is ludicrous. But okay, now I'm getting into academic mode. But it's clear what I'm saying.

So the seeker's search or thirst or longing for God can be truly fulfilled in such a simple looking... okay. So coming to spiritual progress is moving from complexity to simplicity, not the other way around. So telling maybe one time that if you're already putting two variables, you've gone too far. Just keep it very simple. No 'therefore there is,' 'therefore that,' because that is using the intellect. Simply you are, you exist. And if existence seems elusive, try to not be. So this is being. Shivoham, you're with us? Yes, very good, very good. Now what is aware of this being? Is there somebody else aware and telling you, 'Hey, your being is here, you exist'? You know you are not hearing these words or 'I am hearing them as some witnessing and I am telling you about them.' Is it like that? You are aware of the perception, even the perception of what I've been calling the primordial vibration. You are aware of it, isn't it? But that which is aware, does it have even the most primal construct of being and not being? Okay, that will take you to the intellect, so don't go there. Let's go back to the question: who is aware even of being? You are the one. So that 'you' is prior even to the sense of beingness, independent let's say even of beingness.

It's just what we just discussed. Can you stop being? It seems like the exercise of confirming your existence perceptually is the confirmation of what we... you exist. Now, did you need the notion that 'I exist' to confirm that? No, there was what that confirmed it. Like it's on the cusp of perception, but it's not really a perception, isn't it? So you can smell the fragrance of the presence, yeah, you see, you can smell it. I mean, you can perceive it in some subtle way, but it's not like a perception like this, you see. That's why I call it in the cusp of the unmanifest and manifest, you see. So but that is enough. Now your mind will scream, 'No, no, I don't buy this because I have to see it clearly otherwise,' you see. But if you saw it clearly, it would become a perception, and all perceptions are unreal. So don't fall for that mind requisite.

I don't know, man. Wow, that's quite a project to get a conceptual framework broad enough to contain all the words that all the masters have said, you see, and therefore come to an ultimate understanding. But forget all the masters. If you look at one master, you will see that all their concepts have neutralized themselves in their own saying. One day they will say you must do the inquiry; one day they will say you can't do anything at all, forget about it, you see. So to build a conceptual framework truly, if you were to do it with full integrity, you see, you will see that you get nowhere. Because a master who is sharing without cancelling or neutralizing his own words is not really a master. If he can leave you with a conceptual framework saying 'Brahman, all this framework' and then doesn't chop it off for you, then he's doing you a disservice. So you can use the frameworks provisionally, but they have to also be cleaned up, you see. So forget about trying to make for everyone. Even one master we can't do.

So one child, I just started sharing about 10 years ago, and she came and said, 'I've been studying Bhagavan for 20 years, but I'm so angry with him because everything he's ever said, he's contradicted himself.' He's done his job very well because he doesn't want to leave you with branches of notion; he wants to leave you open and empty into true intuitive insight. So before meeting Guruji, even I had this kind of projects where I wouldn't want to just make like a true conceptual framework from all Vedanta or some... and to confirm your knowledge of that with what you speak. Like for example, what could you say? Because everything spoken from the mouth is a proposition again, so it cannot truly be neutral, just like a thought, just like shaking my head. But I want to just say this to you, and I've said this often, is that don't be so hard on yourself. Just relax. It's my job, my problem. You don't have to even manage this. Just make it simple.

So that's how Consciousness seems to be playing in this Maya and this Leela. Firstly taking the voice of the delusion and the limitation to be true, and then getting some joy out of chopping it into bits and confirming some or tasting its own freedom. So this being that is here, the fragrance of it, the presence of it, is on the cusp between manifest and unmanifest because you can see, of course, I can bring my attention to it. But if I say what's its color, it may seem like some light or something else, but those attributes are not so important because we can't really place it in the box of quality. Okay, so Shivoham, go on mute. Okay, so now I've shown you, and because it is so simple it may seem like, 'Oh, it's not enough,' but actually it's more than enough. Shown you how to come to the end of suffering and shown you how to meet God. Even Vivekananda when he went to his Guruji Sri Ramakrishna, he said, 'Can you show me God?' And all seekers in one way or the other never ask this question, and in this expression it seems most natural to point in this way. Every master is pointing in their own way, and that's...

Okay, so now I've shown you—and because it is so simple it may seem like, oh, it's not enough, but actually it's more than enough—I've shown you how to come to the end of suffering and shown you how to meet God. Even Vivekananda, when he went to his Guruji Sri Ramakrishna, he said, 'Can you show me God?' And all seekers in one way or the other never stop asking this question. In this expression, it seems most natural to point in this way. Every master is pointing in their own way and that's fine. So here it seems so direct for this one to point like that. But you are here. Whose presence is this? The mind's job is to convince you that it is your personal presence, you see.

Okay, this gives me another tip that I want to give all of you. Like many hear that we must get rid of the 'I,' so the mind comes in subtly over there—the whack-a-mole guy—and says, 'This presence that you're experiencing is the I that you're meant to get rid of.' See what a beautiful masterstroke it is? That which you're longing for, it has made an enemy out of that only and said, 'This is your personal I; you must get rid of that,' you see. 'Once you are rid of this, then you are free.' But your waking state will not arrive without that being so. You will never taste that concept of that freedom because it's always there. And seekers then get frustrated and say, 'My I is still here. I still have tried to kill it, I've tried to inquire, but I am still here.' But you are, you see. All of this is shining in the light of that I Am-ness. So that is not the I that you're supposed to be free from. When that I Am is taking itself to be 'I am something,' it is the 'something' that you have to chop away or allow it to dissolve or surrender or inquire into.

Clear? It is covering all the basics today so that—and there's nothing else actually, just different expressions of the same thing. So just see that the presence here is not your enemy. It is the notion of 'I am something,' the idea of limitation, which can be the root cause of all suffering. So like that, then, are you not aware of your being? You are. So that which is aware, does it even have the perfume of being or not being? Like, is it different than sleep state or waking state? But don't go into speculation. Just intuitively some answer is there. Otherwise forget about sleep.

That which is aware of being, does it even have the qualitative taste of beingness? Of course, the word 'being' we could be using in a broader way, that anything that is, is being. So then don't get trapped in that vocabulary thing, okay? And that can cause some confusion also. But the way that we use it is to say we're talking about that which has this perfume, presence of being, of consciousness as being. And then we get rid of the dictionary and we ask: What is aware even of that? And whether that is dependent on some quality of beingness or not beingness, you mean?

So let's come back. Let's come back to say, 'I.' They do, I'm guessing, always make it tougher. Okay, so coming back, you—the sense of being is clear. So that which is aware of this being, who is aware? Who is coming to this recognition that there is being here? Is your husband coming and telling you? No, it's you only. Yeah? Is it third-party information or is it direct? Is there? So that 'you' which is aware... okay, let me ask this another way. What is the difference between the two questions: 'Can you stop being?' and 'Are you aware now?' Can you look for a minute and see if something comes? Can you stop being first? Can you stop being? Now if I say, 'Are you aware now?' is it the same insight? When we say, 'My beingness is here, I am,' do you experience its presence in some ways?

Unless the mind has convinced you that it does, that's what I was saying. It plays that trick with it, which is its only job—that pure being itself is already identification and you must get rid of that. So okay, let's look this way. You're here now. Right now, right now, right now. Are you sure? Right now, right now, right now. Okay. Even to get your name near at least a moment... so there's no Shubham-ness in the being itself. The Shubham has learned knowledge and therefore stays in knowledge. So if you had amnesia suddenly, you could not forget to be, but you could forget your name, where you come from, all of those things, isn't it? So your being is just pristine, empty of that. So if you had amnesia and I said, 'Can you stop being?' you will notice being is here. But who that is, whether that is whatever is not—like, 'I don't know.' So your being is independent of any identification just naturally. Isn't that itself so amazing? That in this moment you may be the most identified so-called sinner in the universe, but in this moment you are as pure as God itself. So beautiful.

So time doesn't have anything to do with this discovery. Now you are aware of your existence. That 'you' which is aware, does it have like this—even this qualitative sense of existence or non-existence? Yes, but how? In what way? Don't you find it? This is a very good point actually. So the sense of being you find in some sort of tangible way; at least there's a perfume of the presence. So it seems like in some way perceptible. But we started with this conversation by saying that the truth is beyond perception and it is beyond intellect, mind you. So that is exactly what you are saying. Background is interesting. So what you are saying is that, of course, I am aware of my being, but I can't find this 'I' which is aware of you. So that is it. That is actually the whole spiritual conundrum in that one statement, you see. Because what you mean when you say 'I can't find it' is that you can't perceive it, isn't it? But if you were to perceive it, then it would become another object in your perception. So it would not have the same value. And yet you're able to confirm 'I am aware.' What is that means of knowledge with which you can confirm that?

And that will seem very alien in the beginning, and that is the only shift that we are talking about, you see. So usually the answer I get to that is, 'Just like that. I don't know how I confirm it.' So that 'just like that,' that 'I don't know how I confirm it,' is your intuitive insight, you see. Because otherwise it will become another perception, and every perception comes and goes. If the Self was to come as an experience, then the Self also would be objective. Then it is as much perception as anything else, like an ice cream. It's like you can have a sweet taste, but it's going to go; it's going to melt over here. So this is so beautiful because you cannot take your mind there, isn't it? With the mind saying, 'What did I see? What is happening here?' you see. These will be the complaints: 'Show it to me. What is your experience?' It's just not an experience in that way because it's not phenomenal, is it? It is, 'Of course I am aware.' But this 'I'—how can I say 'of course'? This is the only thing you can confirm like this. Everything else you can confirm with quality: 'What are these glasses? What is this form?' because you can see the shape, the color of the side. But for awareness: 'I am aware.'

Okay, after answering 'yes' and feeling like systems... forget about the 'after' because I know what is coming after will be in time and therefore mind. And I know he's not liking my response because he's like, 'I really want to talk about that to talk.' So the question right now, right now, right now, right now—if I don't give you time, like mind needs time for construction activity, the truth is always there. What is... it's already still stuff. So don't worry about where the words of the confirmation are coming from, like 'yes.' It's not about that 'yes.' It's about what you check on in a way, what do you recognize, you see? Even if you said 'no,' it makes no difference to me because it's not about that. You could speak in some other language and say whatever; it makes no difference. But what did you check when I asked you, 'Are you aware now?' You went, in a way, went to a unique place which is out of this universe. Because everything in this universe is in time and space, has a quality, has some shape, size, duration. But that awareness—'Are you aware now?'—where can you meet it? Has it got any shape? Like this world, everything has shape. So this question is the spaceship out of this universe. Instantly out. It's a teleporting machine.

So for a while it can seem very confusing, like, 'Of course I'm aware, but I didn't see anything. I was expecting fireworks, I was expecting the Virat Roop.' It's for the mind, which name is right, but 'I didn't find anything there, it's so empty.' It's not true because the mind's version of this awareness is like a dark empty place or something, just empty everywhere. So don't fall for any visualization. Find out who is aware even of that, that dark empty space, whether that itself is down. Because even dark is perceived; presence or absence of light are both perceived. Yes. So that intuitive knowledge which your mind is completely confused about and saying, 'But it's really true?' Of course it's true. I say, 'Who's looking at this hand?' You'll say, 'I am,' not saying, 'My neighbor is telling me.' So that which is aware of even the perception of sight, that is what you are. And you know this so naturally. So originally it is an unshakable Knowledge with the capital K that you have, and it is independent of whatever the mind may be screaming right now. And that is the Atma Gyan, that is the Self-knowledge.

Okay, now if you did not want to use it in any way—like if it did not have to bring any benefit to you—then you're free. But mostly what happens is the mind comes in: 'Oh, you had self-recognition? Okay, let's see now. See, your anger is still there,' or 'See, something like... still you want something that should be gone if you are free.' So we'll use that. So I have nothing against desire, but the desire will be used by your mind as a benchmark to tell you that you are not free and you're back into that mold of the separate individual grasping for freedom. So if you did not want to see any byproducts in the manifestation of your recognition of yourself as awareness, nothing can trip you up. Usually the 'but' comes and says, 'But Ananta, come, there has to be some difference, no, between you and me now?' You see, I am saying no, we are one. You will say, 'No, no, but I can't talk like that,' or some rubbish like that matter. And maybe that's just an expression of some sort of like spiritual desire or something like that where we sort of visualize an endgame.

Or the most popular one, because of the term that should have been left at Sat-Chit and not Sat-Chit-Ananda: 'But where is the Ananda?' And I can tell you that the Ananda of the non-manifest, non-separable reality is higher than any ananda in this manifest creation. Papaji pointed to that when he said that it could be your wedding night, you could be in the arms of your beloved, but when sleep calls and you just prefer sleep over everything else and you want to sleep because what do you experience in sleep? Pure nothingness. So that is Brahman. But what we are chasing is the ananda of this world. So that's why they talk about Brahmananda, but we feel like eating your chocolates or drinking some juices—pleasure, like pleasure.

So just with the 'but,' you have to meet this with as much innocence as you can muster. If your spiritual knowledge comes into the play, then it will go in the same direction. So just right now, you are sitting on that couch, yes? So if you were to forget about the sitting part, you would exist independent of the sitting, isn't it? So that existence is being. Is there a quality to that? No, it's like... yeah, now good with this. Okay. Now that which is aware even of this, even this quality of hereness or thereness, whatever you want to say—is that... does that have a quality of hereness or even thereness? Hereness—now that is your most primal Self because even beingness, this quality of hereness and thereness goes, but this which is aware does not come. Okay, what makes it easy? Let's go slowly, right? So what makes it easy? It's timeless. When you say, 'I don't have to check,' there is no test. There is no test for...

Ah, now, good with this. Okay. Now, that which is aware even of this, even this quality of hereness or thereness, whatever you want to say—does that have a quality of hereness or even thereness? So, hereness... now, that is your most primal Self, because even beingness, this quality of hereness and thereness goes, but this which is aware does not come. Okay, what makes it easy? Let's go slowly, right? So, what makes it easy? It's timeless. When you say, 'I don't have to check,' there is no test. There is no test for it. Is there anything else like that? No, no. This is the only thing, the only no-thing which we are able to confirm. Who is aware of that? Okay, forget that question. Forget that question. Are you aware now? Is it clear? And can you stop being? No. Okay, then. But we just checked, no? I wouldn't say yes, but yeah, it's okay. So, just let's keep these two. Forget about who's aware of me; it becomes too much, too many variables. I understand, it's fine. You're not missing anything then. It's good.

Who is the one that wants to own this? Who's the one? The one who wants to own this? What is knowledge? Yeah, no, I mean, actually, I mean, let me expose... then what you're doing is Advaita tries to make a friend out of the intellect and say, 'Let's look this way,' and this way, then look this way, then we'll just like chop this into little bits. You can't look that way. So, let's go quickly beyond that. What is the sound of one hand clapping? And you have to just meet it without time. If you give it to him, ah, one hand, it can clap, then go on like we need another coin or a stricter master. But actually, both leading to the same discovery and different methods. And therefore, hard and fast labor. I'm sure there were many other masters who used tactics which could... without that, I've been given labels like the Butcher of Bangalore or the Smiling Axeman and all these naturally apparent... better hands, hands, hands. I see so many hands, but what is left for the hands to ask? Okay, this...

Yes. Namaste. I cannot hear you. I'm not saying much. How about if I... can you hear this? Yes, yes. So, I think my topic is completely different. Oh, I see. Yeah. What about attachment? I am too much, too much attached with my mother and brothers. Wherever I go, it's tough for me to be away from them.

Why is it... why is it? Is it restricting your movement in some way, or what happens? Because you're attached to your... it's natural, no? Brother and mother, you will be attached. It's fine, whatever. It's like whatever...

Whatever I'm doing, wherever I go, yeah, they are like calling me or I want to be around them. I want to know what they are doing. I know it's not good for me. And Meera is different, but it's like they are a hurdle on my journey.

So, right now, right now in this very moment, are you attached?

No, no.

So you're free then. Some moment will come where you remember them and you can call them. It's okay. What's wrong with that?

So much, because we've heard in spirituality many times that, oh, every attachment has to go, then you can be free. But that to get rid of attachments becomes a main attachment for us.

Yes. Will you be free from that attachment to be free from attachment first? Because I don't feel like I'm not getting... I... okay, let me try to say this another way. If you were not bothered that you are attached to your brother and mother, then you would be much freer already. Yes, you would be much freer already, isn't it?

Yeah. So enjoy that freedom first. We are free. It's nothing about freedom. Then what is it about? Something which... which keeps me attached like... I want to go somewhere else, but they are like pushing me back with them.

But then how are you free?

I'm not free in that way.

Are you talking about like going to some place that you want to go, but they want you to go? Then what is this place you want to go?

I don't want to go anywhere.

Then what are they holding you back from?

There is something inside.

Oh, no, no. What's that? Let's look now. Let's look. Because first we have to identify the enemy before you can shoot it. Because if the enemy is affected, you don't want to shoot that. Yeah. So the ego will work in shadows, you see. It'll say, 'I don't know, I don't know,' but you know, like that. But then you shine your light fully on it, and there is nothing in the world that can escape the light of consciousness, and you are that light of consciousness. So don't allow it to do this kind of subtle, subtle tricks on you. Find out if there's something bothering you. What is it? What is the... what is it that you want that is being stopped? This is what I'm looking for.

I don't know what's the name of that thing which is like... they are like honey and I am the bee. Or I should say they are flowers, I feel like they are flowers and I am the bee, and I'm going there to take honey.

Okay, so they give you joy. They give you joy. Your family gives you joy. No, everything gives joy. What if you don't have a problem at all, but you only think you have a problem?

For me, actually, or I think I'm a problem for them.

That they will solve when they come to Satsang. I am trying to get to what is your problem.

They are not coming to Satsang.

Yeah, then they are fine. They are not suffering enough, no?

They are suffering a lot, but not enough to come to Satsang. You suffer... actually, my mother cannot understand English, that's why she is not coming in Satsang. Otherwise...

Oh, sure. That's good enough. So she is in Satsang. I am not saying... so right now, do you have a boundary or limitation of any sort?

Um, no.

So that which is without any boundary, any limitation... limitation is attachment, isn't it? So you're empty of all these conditions till the mind walks you and says, 'Haha, but you still have this problem, you have to fix it.' Without the mind, what are you?

Nothing.

In a bad nothing, or is it a good nothing?

Neither bad nor good.

That's it. Very good. So stay there. What is the weather like now, brother? So, suppose as... I know this is the first time we are meeting like this, but suppose as my guru dakshina for this conversation, I wanted every thought that troubles you to be my problem. Every thought that troubles you. Yes. Suppose as guru dakshina for this conversation only, because I'm very greedy, I wanted every thought that troubles you to become my problem. To become my problem and not your problem. Could you give me this dakshina?

Yes, yes. Very good, very good. Um, what should I do? I feel like I'm lost, but you are not suffering. So this body is struggling. If your problems are that big, I will suffer for you.

Yes. But you don't suffer, no? Nobody should suffer. You don't worry about that. You don't worry about that. Can you hand it over or no? That is the main question.

Yes, yes.

That's all. You chill, relax, do whatever. All problems... you didn't realize I'll ask for such a big guru dakshina if you come one time.

Sometimes I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. Is it right or wrong? I know nothing is right and wrong. I am making the things right or wrong. But is it okay where I'm going? I don't know.

If the thought troubles you, it is my problem. If you find joy in it, you can keep it.

There's no joy or problem, like there's nothing like joy or problem.

Then you're fine. Then you're free. It's easy right now.

Like right now you are saying, 'Be free, be free, it's your freedom,' this and that. Later on, later on I feel like everything is... everything is around me and they are pushing me here and there. Problems.

Can you give it or not? This is the quickest way to help you, you see. Everything else will take more time. But if you can just hand it over, all that troubles you in any way, whether now, future, whenever, then see what happens. Is it something to give and take? Yes. So how does that... okay, let me explain to you how it works. Okay. So the mind will come and tell you, 'Uh, but this thing, whatever, future, where am I going? What about my brother and mother?' So when you notice it is trying to trouble you, you say, 'It is Father's problem. Why are you coming here?' That's all.

It is not to... yeah, I'll do that. And at that very moment everything will be like okay. Everything will be fine. Later on, me again and again. Why this is happening, that we have to remind ourselves again and again that stop it?

Because we have reminded ourselves of the false so much. So we have to now remind ourselves of the true a little bit. How many years do you remind me about the false? How many years? And we don't even know how many lifetimes. But now if I say, 'Okay, now it's not long time homework,' say for two weeks you do like this: when the mind tries to talk to you in any way, you say, 'It is Father's problem.' Then everything will be gone for that moment only.

Okay, so that's good enough. Rather than being troubled for that moment, you're okay for that moment. But next time I have to remind myself again that stop it, Meera.

Don't stop with Meera, another problem. It can only be free moment to moment. The mind says, 'I should always be free,' but in that notion of always being free, it is keeping you bound. Yes. So forget always. Always is my problem. I'll do that. Surrender is the easy road sometimes. Yes.

Next. Thank you so much. I'll practice this again and again.

Yes. And then when you come next time, you can report and say this happened. Yes. All my love, all my blessings. Let's go to... who haven't I spoken to in a while? Let's go to Zoki, haven't spoken to her in a bit. Now I say, very good. Thank you so much.

Can you hear me?

Yes, my dear, I can hear you well.

You're very welcome. Thank you so much. There's so much love, so much gratitude. So, so welcome. So, um, all is clear, so clear. The one thing which comes sometimes, but it is... when you say that all we perceive is consciousness, Self, that what we are, and this is also clear. But, um, one thing is about... everything what is perceived outside, like on this side of the eye, yeah... how is that meant to... this is me? Is it meant by... because I'm here, it is here? So, and when I'm not here, it's not here? So this is... could be? Or is it like the matter even also made out of this which is actually... it has no form, it has... so how can this be then?

This is good. So let's... let's look together, but we have to look for a moment without the mind. Just look without any intellect, any inference, no molecules, no therefore, no but, nothing. And just go to our intuitive insight. You see, how to go to intuitive insight? Just... just let the mind come and go is to go to the intuitive insight. It's not a place you can go to really. It is just letting go of the false is enough. Now, if there is an answer coming from there, then you can report that, or just look at that. If there is no answer, there is no rush, because these are intuitive insights which are shared. But there must be no pressure to try and... 'Okay, my freedom will be complete only if I can also see it that way,' or some idea like that, you see. But empty of the mind, see if there's a... there's a sense about this. Is there any separation or duality, any division of any sort?

Simple like that. What happens in the mind's representation is that when we... 'How can I see that I am not separate from everything else?' You see what it already proposed is you as this body, no? You see? So then trying to make this body the same as everything else is impossible, and it'll say, 'See, but you're not these molecules, different that molecule.' So is it saying that the light is the same, therefore? So it's all intellectual sort of inferences. But when we drop that, what is apparent? The highest spiritual truths to the mind are just our obvious kindergarten stuff to the heart. So that is the only shift that is needed, if at all. We were just talking about something similar thing, it could be a bit entertaining, so I'll share. So we were talking about yoga the other day and how there were notions of, you know, multiple worlds and universes and then all of this stuff. And then we were just making comparisons with this new notion of metaverse where computer programs could have these mini-universes where you buy a plot of land or rebuild a house and you interact with others. So, you know, so it's like... it's like the sages were talking about all of this stuff.

Something similar, it could be a bit entertaining, so I'll share. We were talking about yoga the other day and how there were notions of, you know, multiple worlds and universes and all of this stuff. And then we were just making comparisons with this new notion of 'metaverse' where computer programs could have these mini universes where you buy a plot of land or build a house and you interact with others. So, it's like the sages were talking about all of this stuff and technology is just about catching up with this kind of thing. But the ability of Consciousness to project for itself and experience itself in so many ways—in dreams and waking and simulation and now virtual reality, augmented reality—what you see, it's all... the basis is the Consciousness. Without that Consciousness, there's no question of any experience of any so-on-so. But it's so beautiful that the sages were able to, just from their intuitive insight, talk about all of these things like the reality of the nature of so-called reality and how there could be universe upon universe and thousands and millions of universes.

So, where does all that insight come from? It's not like a committee of sages act together and say, 'Must be many universes.' It can't come from there. It has to be from a deeper place which realizes that. So when Ashtavakra wrote those lines which I often refer to, he said, 'You are the boundless ocean in which the arks of the universes come and go.' You see how, in those days, no technology, nothing, but look at this—to be able to look at this perceivable manifestation and see that it's nothing for the reality of what I am. And so many of these have been experienced, but I am the substratum of all of that. So only from our intuitive intelligence can all of this be really confirmed and clarified.

So the oneness of reality, this trips up many of us. This is a very good conversation because we feel like, 'I'm not free till I see I'm the same as that chair,' you know? But 'I am the same as that chair'—is what? The body is the same as the chair? No. So but in that reference, we are trying to conclude that. So if you drop the body reference, then where are you to confirm your oneness with everything else? If you drop the body reference, then what are you trying to confirm the oneness of what with what? Not possible. So in that way, it is neither one nor two. So it's a 'not applicable' in reality. The notion of duality is not that there's no duality, there is oneness, you see? It is that it is not applicable at all, that the question itself is not up. But we get stuck in that idea of trying to... and then we might feel like, 'No, no, I have to love everyone like that,' and you see this kind of thing, but 'I don't feel love for that one, so I must not be free.' Some ideas like that can come.

Rather than worrying about those outcomes, just stay in the discovery of what you are in the inside which you're being pointed to. And then the beauty of intuitive insight is that it's not as if some mystery will be left for you, you see? For your mind, this will become a more ever-deepening mystery, but for your heart, everything is clear. It's always clear. So it's only the only error is going to the wrong instrument for the answer. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Welcome. This goes straight in my mind bypass. Thank you. Yeah, so I just wanted to have one question which is troubling me since a long time. I mean, I can... and recently I have also put it into the Facebook group. We can see, I mean, I'm taking it from the bird example which has been given often. So I truly resemble with the first bird, which is very obvious. And when I observe myself, it is very clear that the second bird is also there. Yes. And when I am talking to you, I can watch the awareness. Yes. But then if I look inside me, I don't find myself. There is some talk going on and there is no one to see that. I mean, okay. But then when I want to be at that position, it doesn't last. I mean, it comes and goes, but it doesn't stay there at that position. Okay. So it looks like my journey is kind of stuck. It feels like I'm there only, I mean, it's either not moving, I don't know.

Okay, let's see. Let's see if we can unstick you in some way today in this conversation. So let's go through it together and tell me where you get stuck, okay? So Guruji's beautiful story of the three birds. So the first bird is the bodily movement, activity, all of that. So it's clear, isn't it? Now you are perceiving it through senses—through sight, sound, taste, touch, smell. You see all this perception. So this being that is perceiving all of this movement through this sensory perception, that is also clear as a second bird? Yes, that's also clear. Very good, very good. Now that which is aware of sight and sound and taste and touch and smell cannot be called any of those. It cannot be called sight or sound. It is just aware. It does not have the quality of perception like sight, sound, any of these. You can just take a minute, please check on that.

Yes, it is same like says that there is no juice. I resemble that there is nothing. If you compare the worldly taste or any kind of assumption, there is nothing. It's kind of blank, but it's not that blank which you were saying that there is no dark or light. Just is it kind of...

Very, very good. So can you see that the second bird also comes and goes for you, like sight goes? No? So let's do this experiment together. Imagine for a moment—the waking state is there, so you can't really do it unless I make you sleep or something—but let's see if we can just notice something. Suppose one by one all these senses started to go. So sight went away. Sight is gone. Hearing is going. Hearing is also gone. Touch is going. Gone. Smell, taste, also gone. So all perception is gone. But the awareness which was aware of each of these modalities of sensing, that has remained untouched, isn't it?

Yes. And that which has remained, at what distance is it from you?

It's just a presence. I mean, there is no distance.

There is no distance. Now this that remains, does it have even the quality of presence or absence? I mean, when I can give you another question to make it simpler: that which is aware even of the presence, it is aware without the need for sight, sound, taste, and smell, isn't it? It is just aware of the presence?

Yes, yes.

So that which is aware, is it dependent on the presence in any way?

No, it is presence.

Yes. So it's not dependent on... yeah. So presence that you are speaking of, is it that presence which has an opposite of absence, like being and not being? Is it that presence, or is it the presence of that which is beyond these qualities also?

It appears like it is always there.

It's always there. It's always there. And if I was to say that even the qualitative taste of being was to go away, then even then you would still remain to notice that there is absolutely nothing here. Now notice: no quality, no attribute, no guna at all left. Is it? So this is the third bird. This is the third bird. You're not stuck.

But when we go into worldly activity, we kind of lost it.

Okay, let's try. Try to lose it. Try to do some activity that you lose it. Shake your hand, shake your feet, shake your head. See what you can do so you lose it.

Not at this moment, but I mean when totally engaged into worldly activity, kind of working or doing so.

So now, before next Friday, you try in those to get totally engaged in world activity and lose awareness. Will you do this homework? It's good to experiment anyway. But you will notice that actually, my reality never goes away. I'm always there. It is just because the memory is a repository of manifest images, so we feel like, 'Okay, when I was fully in that, then awareness was not there' or something like that. But even that is strange because then if awareness was not there, then how do you know it happened? So what may be happening is that the mind may be telling us that if you were aware, then all that would not happen, you would not get lost in worldly activity. But even the loss—the being lost and not being lost in worldly activity—awareness remains untouched by that.

You could go through a million lifetimes being fully involved in the activity of the world, but your reality stays as it is. So awareness wants nothing out of the person or what we take ourselves to be. But the trouble is the 'me' wants something out of the discovery of awareness—that something should stop happening to me or I should not get caught up in something. And that itself will keep us caught up when we have like a benchmark or a standard that then our body-mind's life has to live. Then it can feel like... you see, that's a mind trick which is convincing you that if you are truly coming to the third bird, then how can you still be getting so involved or angry or whatever? But that is nonsense because all of that movement is on the screen of being. It has nothing to do with the witness of that, which is what the third bird is, which is what the whole story of the three birds is about.

It's like once you find that you are the third bird, how does that change the life of the first bird? That is the additional question that the mind gives; the Master never gives.

Yeah, it doesn't change actually. It doesn't have the same... yes, yes.

Yeah, so that is why there's an example of: before enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water; after enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water. Because the bird will only do the bird stuff, no? What else will it do? So but I want to say that sometimes the life does change, but it could go either way. So that's why I say chopping wood, fetching water before and chopping wood, fetching water after. Or not. Like you can't really see, because sometimes we can make this idea also that it should remain the same, then that can be a forced idea. See, it doesn't have to be. The body will only do sitting, standing, and lying down, and what else will it do? The bird can only do these things. So once you are discovering that you are not the body-mind, don't expect that the body-mind something should change. There was no point for you.

Thank you, Guruji. I don't have to say anything more.

Very good, very beautiful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your openness while we were looking. It is very beautiful. Thank you. Can we call it a night? I've had a long day. I've been working since five in the morning and it's appealing to your forgiveness for the rest of your hands. Ah, this? Okay, you can sing.

Hello, thank you Father. Oh, we love you. And I also want to give this to my grandfather. I'm in his hometown now and yeah, this one is from again, you know. And yeah, I had the privilege to visit his tomb actually. I just learned that his tomb is in my hometown. So my grandfather also gave me this gift of innocence. So this is for you. Thank you.

Very beautiful. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today.