An Intuitive Insight Contains Everything - 8th April 2024

So sometimes you feel like—some of you heard me say that—something is bubbling inside me to say but I don't have the words for it yet. And if it is God's grace, then the words will come as we go along, you see. So the articulation keeps changing, the insights keep deepening, but it is not beyond what you found about yourself, you see, because that is—an intuitive insight actually in a way contains everything. But our linear mind will not really fathom that. It will seem strange. 'What does he mean, we know everything and yet we keep deepening in our insight?' It seems contradictory, and you have to learn to be happy with contradictions like that. Question which you asked, like, 'What can you tell about that one?' How would you answer it? What can you tell about the one who is aware? So at least you'll start negating all the nonsense that the person believes about themselves. We can start with that, you see. It's all more round-round than straight-straight, and that's why it can be frustrating to the mind. If you can't even explain love to someone, how will we explain the source of even love?

So what can we do then? All the sages have told us. Some have told us we have to do Neti Neti. Some have told us—Bhagavan has told us to abide. All the Gurus, Gurus of the lineage, have told us to not identify. Not just during your time in Satsang or something like that, just don't identify, see. So the way I can offer that to you is to say that we must constantly be in unceasing prayer, you see. Must constantly be in unceasing prayer. But the prayer of quiet is—the prayer of open and empty is also a prayer. And I don't want to make gradations between prayer because all prayer is beautiful, but if I was forced, I would say it is among the highest prayers we can make: the prayer of being empty. That is called abiding.

So the instant you recognize, for example, that you are awareness itself, you will abide for some time, hopefully. That is grace, you see. So then our persistent inquiry and absence of holding on to any identification keeps us in that unceasing prayer, or just with the inner head bowed down in the temple of our heart in the presence of God's light, His fire, His love. That can be a quiet prayer. How to remember God's name can be a prayer. There are infinite ways to get to Him if that is your intention. But it cannot be just a mundane intention. You can't just say, 'You and along with all of that, some God will be nice,' you see. You can't see like that. It has to be God, God, God somewhere. That's why I keep emphasizing to you that there is nothing so valuable in this world that we are clamoring for, that we are grasping at. And what this world is designed to do is to distract you away from that holy fire in your heart, that holy light, the holy presence in your heart, which is the greatest gift we can imagine.

So faith makes us give more value to this than to the world. So how much are we living in faith? If you look at today, what did we value today? And remember that your body sensations also are part of the world. So we have to value the light that is the light of the—projective light of this universe. So what did we value today? So that is the spiritual project: to divest value from that which is the realm of the changing and to honor that which is the holiness within ourself. And the inquiry, the recognition, the insight, the love, the devotion, the servitude—all of that helps us to remain in that. You must be really careful in a way—not like live your life scared or something, but be vigilant to Maya and its ways. Be careful of that which is spiritual-sounding or spiritual-feeling but not spiritual. Is it God? If not, leave it. Anything—we can make so many things into... like you're sitting with the Sangha and everybody is talking spirituality but nobody's being in the presence of God. Is that spiritual? It can seem spiritual. Other people may come and say, 'See, all of you have become so spiritual, you're talking such high things.' But unless Spirit is present, it is not Spirit. You could be imagining all kinds of things, seeing all kinds of visuals, but are they truly coming from Spirit or are we just imagining? And if you're just imagining, it is still not spirituality.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly. And how to be most loving to our brothers and sisters? So not exist as yourself, and therefore then you are a temple of God, you see. Then you don't exist as 'me,' then you are a worthy temple of God, and that is the highest gift you can give to your brothers and sisters, you see. And love is just a natural part of being that way. So today, how much did we value the world and how much did we value God? We can't be 100% quantitative about it, but intuitively you'll have a sense. And the idea is not to make you feel guilty or unworthy; the idea is just to encourage you that these things of the world will go on. Something or the other will keep happening, you see. Every day the mind will take time away from you till you come to the end of your life. Who wants to give an answer?

I'll share of what I observed also during the weekend, Father, when I was trying to pray. And you said that sometimes if you feel like you're open and empty, then you pray all the time. And see if you—so to get in, like say for example I've forgotten to pray, to get into it it was a little difficult. So I have to keep praying for me to again, you know, start praying again. So that happened throughout the day. I kept noticing that. And I also noticed that if I—so if the intention is to pray, for example on the weekend, this is very illustrative—so you decided that you're going to pray all the time?

Yes. Yeah. And then you forgot?

Yeah, yes.

So can we forget when we are open and empty? Did forgetting happen that we were praying 'Ram' and then we just forgot and then we remain empty? Is it? Usually it's not like that. Try to breathe with your nose. Usually it is not like that because what you will find is you go into this mental realm and the mind five minutes later will still convince you, 'But you are open and empty.' Because if you continue truly to be empty, then you are in the presence of the heart temple; you have not stopped praying. These are just tricks that the mind uses. Even during praying, my attention is not on the prayer many, many, many times. Like I'm here also, I'm praying, and at home also—maybe it's different here because you're there, the Satsang is there—but my attention is not on the prayer. So I don't know what is what in this.

But what is the interest? What do you mean? What is the interest? So attention may be on things, you see, but what are you interested in in spite of that? Can we look at this really slow? So when you say that, are you actually praying?

Like, okay, so many times I'm doing nothing and I'm starting to pray and I'm trying to pray with the words, like, you know, actually mean them. Most of the time it's not happening because I'm in something, or even when I start praying with it, I might just slip away. I don't know. So sometimes the actual praying is happening and I'm actually saying, you know, I'm a...

So this child, give me a good example. When did you meet Shamik? How many years back? 2003? You liked him? You like fell in love immediately? No, no, whenever. Okay. So once you fell in love, your attention may have been in your books, your attention may have been in your classroom, your other friends...

Something or even when I start praying with it, I might just slip away. I don't know. So sometimes the actual praying is happening and I'm actually saying, you know, I'm a... so this child gave me a good example. Um, when did you meet Shamik? When did I meet Shamik? How many years back? 2003. Uh, you liked him? Yeah, you like fell in love immediately? No, no, whenever. Yeah, okay. So once you fell in love, your attention may have been in your books, your attention may have been in your classroom, your other friends, whatever. Yeah, but your interest would have been with him. Yeah. So like that. So what was different then? Let's go... even when we are younger, we have better examples usually. Our first crushes, our first infatuations, all of that. So we are sitting in the classroom looking at the teacher; attention is on there. We may be even doing some math, but our interest is in... yeah, that one. Yeah. So that is clear then. Whatever I'm doing the day, my interest is in God. Yes, that.

So when you say, are you praying? Yeah, so right now, meaning right now you're having this conversation with you. Yeah, what is the interest in God? Huh? God. How you know? I know. No, do you know post-facto or during? Is it because you can... but I'm still actually interested in God. Whole day I was really most interested in God. No, I'm saying alive. I don't know. I can't answer that question. Is that interest alive in us right now?

So when it is said we remain in the presence, for example, even if you're engaged in conversation but it's coming from the heart or it's coming from the light of God, then what we are saying is we are anchored in His presence. And that can only happen because we are interested in being there. Otherwise, this Maya will pull us out like that. Isn't it? Is seeing starting to see what I'm saying? So although you may say that yes, even while this conversation my interest was only in God, see, but is it... is that a living interest? Is that a live-like interest? How to explain? Like a flow state, you see. But even in the flow state, we may be involved in some entertainment; we may forget that there's a flow. So now, okay, now try to make the switch from just stay with Him and allow the lips to have the conversation. Then you've not left the prayer.

So it's not that the content of the words is God. It's not that the content of the words is God. It's not that the topic we are striving for mostly or the highest most important thing is God. It's about the moment. In this moment, what are we truly interested in? See, and if you look at the world, the world is interested in improving their image in the eyes of people, saying intelligent things, you see, being seen as something, getting their way, owning things. That is the interest of the world. But those who are true renunciates, true sadhus, are inward sadhus, which means that they are holding on to God. This body-mind can do whatever it wants; it unfolds. Then we are in prayer. Don't worry, it's good. It's good.

I just... I'm not... I'm feeling very like shaky about this whole thing. Like I don't know if I'm doing anything right with... but remember nine months back you were very shaky about... yeah, so I'm still shaky. I mean, I'm doing the prayer, it just I have no idea what I'm doing and I have no idea when you ask things about this whether I'm even speaking out of integrity or not.

So right now, is His presence alive? When you say that, what do you mean? Like what do I have to... sorry, I'm just really... I want to... yeah, no, that's good. So do you feel like like He's alive with you right now? Yeah. Yes. Let's... it's not palpably here like it's not like I... there are different tastes, but do you see that? Yes, there are. So do you see how you could be in some mind state where it could not feel alive at all? Why am I doubting that I'm not feeling it alive now? I don't want to... don't worry. So I'm saying is there a state where, suppose I said something which infuriates you right now and you get fully focused on this stupid body in front of you? He's saying then there comes a point where that aliveness goes away, like when you're angry with your kids or when you're angry in your family or whatever. Then that takes us away from that.

So whether we are chanting with our lips, 'Ram Ram, Hare Ram, Hare Ram, Ram Ram, Hare Hare' like that, or we are chanting in the mind, or we are chanting with the heart, or we are head bowed down in the heart with no words, or we are anchored in the presence of His love and light and no words, or every combination of all of these, one thing is constant: that it's about Him. It's about... see, otherwise what can happen is that our prayer can become about the fact that I'm praying. How it is like, 'I am praying, I'm praying, I'm doing the prayer.' See? So still we are at the center of that. So when it becomes that God is at the center of it, not the fact that we are praying or not praying, He's at the center of it, then whether it is a wordy prayer, it is an empty... we are open and empty, we are a prayer of the heart, whatever is happening, if He's truly in the center... so how can you, how will you tell that He's truly in the center? That's the question.

I'm still not getting it. Sorry, I'm still feeling lost.

So that's what I'll help you. So can you feel His presence? Otherwise, I'm saying like some of you may say, 'I can't feel His presence,' so this instruction doesn't help me. And we'll come to those later. But you can feel His presence. Can I ask something on this? Like there is an expectation that I feel it palpably, like that is the time I'm feeling His presence, otherwise I'm not. When you're asking this, I don't want to say yes. Yeah, it's like um... just whatever is true, say that independent of whether you want to or not. So can you feel His presence now? Yeah, I'll say no. Let's say otherwise you felt His presence. Yeah, yeah, yes. So what stops you from feeling it now? There's a... there's like an expectation of the same taste, the same palpability. I think that's the... yes, but the palpability is one percent perceptional and ninety-nine percent intuitive, isn't it?

In the sense that we say that we say the Atma is within ourselves. Most of the world can just speculate about it and say, 'We read somewhere.' But those who can truly say there is a living presence within ourselves, is that presence phenomenal or non-phenomenal? We can't say. It's both. It's both. So why is it both? Because I can sense the presence. You can sense it in a way which is not phenomenal, not the phenomenality of this world. Yeah, you can sense it beyond its phenomenality. No, otherwise you would say what you're talking about is purely phenomenal. Is it? Then you would sense it just... it's like I sense it both in exactly at the same time in both ways. Exactly.

So this Atma, which is like the most beautiful escape hatch from Maya, you see, is so beautiful because it is not purely objective, but it's not purely non-objective either. Like you can get a vibration of it, the sense of it, and that is probably what you're calling the palpability. Yeah, isn't it? That is... so now that is not there. Like I'm not feeling... can... yeah, like I'm not in my mind yet I feel like when you ask, mind is saying, 'What are you saying?' Okay, so those three seconds, the prayer. But in this prayer there is no... there are no words. Don't have to be, because it's about God. So then when you say pray all day, yeah, unceasingly, so then... so it will not be... it's impossible to do if it was in words. It would be impossible to do constantly if it was in words, isn't it? Because you will have conversations with people, those things will happen, and yet you can be in... then why have the sages told us to be in nirantar prayer in the Sanatan Dharma and in unceasing prayer in Christianity? Then they must be... there must be something else, something deeper, or they must be mistaken.

So what is that then? Unceasing prayer when your heart is... when you're in His presence and that is what you're interested in, in spite of whatever may be happening in the world. Yeah, but I'm not always interested in... right, that's what you're asking. So what percentage is that? See, because in your case you can see that when I'm truly interested, I'm in His presence. Another one who is new to satsang may not be able to see that yet, and we'll share some instructions there as well, you see. But those who have come to His presence, why wouldn't we always want to be in His presence? Like, it's God. No, I know you want to, but this is how Maya works, you see. Because Maya tells us that something in Maya is more important. It's God's presence. Yes, is there any state in the world which can match being with Him? Nothing. Then why don't we always? It's Maya. That's why it's called Maya, not just appearance.

Have a question about the prayer then. So in this just where there is no words and then if there is an ajapa japa it's okay, but do I have to then...

Okay, so should we break it down again from the... what all we are calling prayer? What all we are calling prayer? Suppose that you are non-spiritual, some friend forced you to come to satsang. Shama is here. I don't know how much of satsang she's heard, but suppose this is the first satsang and she doesn't know what we are talking about most likely. Huh? Do you know what we are talking... something very... but suppose you didn't know, then what would I tell them? I would say, 'Are you interested in inquiring who am I?' And if you look at most people in the world, they are not interested at all, you see. So they say, 'Okay, no, no, not really. What will happen? What will I get if I inquire?' See? So I may say, 'Okay, why don't you just chant the name of Ram all the time?'

So they say, 'Okay, but what... when do I have to do it? How do I have to do it?' They do it whichever way. You just go 'Ram Ram.' So then they may say, 'Should I say it with my lips, with my tongue, or should it just be mentally, Ram Ram?' I say that if you can do it mentally, start mentally. If you can't do that, you don't have the concentration or focus, then start by saying it. Isn't it? And then even then if you're not able to do it, then how should I do it? Then get a mala, you see. Just chant a few malas every day. That will keep your focus on God's name. Remember that it is God's name. So because it is God's name, it is God's presence. This may not make sense to the mind yet, but because you have remembered God's name, you have invoked His presence. And as much of yourself as you can put into that, the more His presence will become alive for you.

So that would be the beginner instruction, you see. So how long should I do it? Do it and report back to me till His presence becomes apparent. You see, what happens when I get caught up in the world, all of that? Keep doing it, keep doing it as much as possible until you come to a point where it's impossible. So you're so engaged in some work or something that you just can't do it, then you slow it down or do it every few minutes; remind yourself of that. So prayer of the lips, of the tongue, prayer in the mind, mental repetition. That's how you would... and initially it will seem like a lot of effort, and most of you have gone through that hard work. You've gone through the hard work because your mind doesn't like it. It doesn't want to do this. Like, 'What is happening is that what you come to... you don't... you want to do something in your life, you're going to become a vegetable like this.' All of these things will come, see? But I feel like most of you have gone through that difficulty.

So then what happens? Then you come to a point, and it doesn't have to be linear like this, but it may happen that you may find that your mind is starting to repeat it by itself, you see. So it has become the first level of ajapa japa. It just effortlessly it is happening. It sounds like such a relief after all the effort you had to put in, you see. Then you feel like, 'Ah, just happening.' Then what happens is that the words seem to get deeper and deeper. So that which used to seem like it is coming from the head, it is the head is repeating, now you may hear that 'Ram Ram' is happening in your heart. Just now be careful of any visualization here because some of you will feel like, 'Oh, in one week now I'm chanting from the heart,' and it just happens like that because...

It is happening. It sounds like such a relief after all the effort you had to put in, you see? Then you feel like, 'Ah, it's just happening.' Then what happens is that the words seem to get deeper and deeper. So that which used to seem like it is coming from the head—the head is repeating—now you may hear that 'Ram Ram' is happening in your heart. Just now, be careful of any visualization here, because some of you will feel like, 'Oh, in one week now I'm chanting from the heart' and it just happened like that because you're just projecting it like that. Like any thought, you can just imagine it is coming from the heart, isn't it? Okay, think 'Ram Ram' in your heart. You can do it. You can imagine yourself as thinking that. So don't get stuck in these. When it is from the heart, you will know that there's something. It's not just something where you're just hearing it from my heart, you see? You can imagine yourself hearing it from the heart; it's not that. It's actually unexplainable, but in a few months, in a few years—we don't know in how much time—it becomes a japa in the heart. And then it comes to a point where it becomes a silent prayer where His love, His presence is palpable, but you don't need the words, or it stops using the words, or it stops like that. And then just to reinvigorate itself from time to time, it chants the prayer. Then you are in the heart temple, living in the heart altar in His presence. And all of this is just broad strokes; there is so much more intricacy, there's so much more beauty in the unfolding of all of this.

When you said that when we're taking God's name, we are invoking Him. We're invoking Him when we're taking His name. So if we're doing it mechanically, are we invoking Him even then? Without our attention, without our love and devotion, sometimes it's just happening mechanically. Are we invoking Him then?

So here is the question. I've been telling all of you that to do it in the 'tick in the box' way is still better than not doing it at all. So just like I was saying the other day, you know, that 'Oh, Ram Ram Ram Ram Ram,' but I'm more interested in whether Virat Kohli has scored a century or not, and I'm just going 'Ram Ram Ram, oh what a shot, Ram Ram Ram' like that. Then let's be true to ourselves: are we praying? Maybe it's still better because you're at least taking the holy name of God, you see? It's still better than not doing anything at all, but you're praying more to Virat than to Ram at that moment, or whatever object in the world. So you know in your heart whether the match was going on in front of you but you were interested in God. For family or society, you have to be in that environment, but your interest is in God. So then you're praying. Can you be properly quantitative about it? You can't, but you will have a sense overall. So I would say that if you're new to satsang and you're just doing 'Ram Ram' like that, I would say you're doing very well in your prayer. If you've been with me for a few years and you're not living in His presence while doing the prayer, then I wouldn't call that prayer for you. So it depends on where you are in the journey.

This is a very... and don't... I'm feeling a bit confused. My experience of devotion has been for the Devi. It has been very ferocious and like a volcano of feeling that erupts and then I melt, you know? Like either I feel ecstatic or I would just be sitting and crying for an hour. And it's almost like she just barged into my life in 2016, but I can't say that I'm consistently in that presence, you know? And there are times I chant and I don't feel anything, and sometimes there are times that I'm just sitting and I just have to say chant a mantra once and there she is.

And when you say 'there she is,' in what way do you mean? In what aspect of your being?

I can just feel her presence. And for me, that's been my... I think that is... I have been a bit ritualistic always since childhood, but I would do it because my parents would ask me to do something or I would just enjoy it. But after I started feeling her presence, for me God is not a concept. I feel her like... I don't have to believe there's a table there, I can see the table. So I don't have to believe she's there; I feel her. But it's not consistent. And there are times I find myself not getting drawn to even chanting because that feeling doesn't come, you know? I feel like she chooses to be felt and I don't have volition in it, you know?

So one thing you have to check for me next time, or maybe you have the answer already, which is that once you feel her, once her presence is apparent, then does she leave or you leave?

I've heard you say this question sometimes now and I have been sitting with it and I don't have an answer as yet. It feels like I leave, but then it also feels like then when I go to her, you know, I just don't feel her. Then it feels like I am praying to a concept of her rather than really feeling her presence. And that feeling... 'feeling' probably comes close to... it's not a feeling, it's just like an avalanche, it's like a deluge. But yeah, I don't know. I've been sitting with that question for some weeks now. Do I leave? I don't know.

So let's try to put it in a way which is simpler to understand. So you've been blessed that she has made herself apparent to you. And so beautifully you can say that, 'I don't have to believe in God, I know the existence of Mata, that she is.' Nobody can tell me that she doesn't exist because I have met her presence, I have felt her presence. And in my case, when her presence is apparent, it comes as a huge avalanche. All things happen. And many of you in the satsang may report that all kinds of chakras, Kundalini, all kinds of things started to happen to you when you started to experience her presence. So this presence has been made apparent to you by grace. Like you said, it was that she came to me. So that is called grace. Now you know that she is real and she can be found, or she can appear and make her presence felt within yourself, you see? Now how much of your life are you willing to invest in going to her and waiting for her to come? She's already given you a gift; she makes an appearance, you see? Now how quickly do we report that, 'But I go, but she doesn't have to come,' but on another time she just comes, you see? Now what are we willing to do? How much of ourself are we willing to give up to really explore whether it is true what the sages have told us? That they can come to the presence. What Ramakrishna has told us, that he can come to Kali's presence and it becomes so next to impossible for him to leave her, but he can go to her. So how much of that is... how much of a risk, how much of an investment are we willing to make on that? And what that number has to be, I'm sure you figured, is 100%. Because already she has blessed you with so much, you see? So we are not entitled to say, 'But I waited one hour, two hours and still I didn't feel her.' Maybe one or two lifetimes.

Yeah, that's very beautiful. Yeah, and like even as I heard you speak I was like, yeah, but it feels like the access to her has become easier than earlier. She doesn't make me wait a lot now, but it's not on demand, you know? There are...

Exactly, it's really just her grace. So that's why spiritual experiences can cut both ways, you see? These are experiences of grace and we must treasure them so much that we say that, 'This is... she comes inside me, she comes in myself, so I'm going to spend my whole life setting the table for her to come.' Because it is no longer a fantasy or imagination for me. I know that she can come. I also know that she is the most intelligent; she is the whole intelligence of this universe, you see? So it is not possible that she does not know that I'm waiting for her empty-handed, open-handed, just all I want is her. It is not possible that she does not know it, you see? But the mind says, 'But if she comes herself, then why should you have to?' or it becomes entitled and says, 'No, this can't work because when she comes, she comes, so why do I have to live like that, empty for her?' But trust me that your heart is calling you from within and her grace is already reassuring you that it's possible for her to come, to be found within yourself. So why would you not bet everything at your disposal to lead a life completely like that?

One more question. I feel my connection with her is still through form. It is through form and I really enjoy the very fierce forms of the Devi and yeah. So my question is not whether it has to be form or formless, but just kind of saying that for me it's still the form, the idol, the shape through which I feel. That's the path.

And then act. Whatever catalyst, whatever support we can use is fine. But when you meet the presence within yourself, you see, then obviously a lot of upheaval happens, which means upheaval at all the layers of emotion, of thought, of all of that. Maybe the body also—crying may happen. All these things may happen, you see? Or you may find yourself even getting into those postures. We had a boy like that who just never did any traditional dance or anything like that, but he would just come to the presence within and then he would dance in that way. So all these things may happen at all the layers of your being. But the one whose presence is being felt, you see, what is the guna of that one? What is the attribute of that one? That the source of all of this, you see, all of this is happening, all this upheaval is happening at all the layers of our being, but that light at the center of it, what is that? That is the treasure. Not that the rest can't be treasured, but that is the real treasure of God's presence when she chooses to illuminate just this light within yourself. So your entire self is her house. There's a very beautiful bhajan which most missed because it was in a popular movie, but the Delhi 6 movie has an arti where the words are spectacular. They are so beautiful. I don't know who composed it, but it says, 'In your hall, in your house, there's a flame that rises.' So in that holy flame, in the light of that holy flame, all our desires, conditions, all of that starts to burn. 'Anand mangalo'—that means all joy, all auspiciousness comes in that, in your holy light, in your holy fire within. And in the light of this, Krishna is playing his flute and Shiv Ji is doing his meditation. It is such a beautiful bhajan and so true that this presence of Consciousness, which is her light, in the light of which all this world play happens. But to go to that source is so pristine. To find that jyot, to find that light in our hearts is so pristine. So we must always remember that He knows or She knows our every heartbeat, our every intention, our every breath. So if you are calling for her, if you're calling for the Mother full-heartedly, she knows. She will also tell us how to pray, what needs to be done. But we have to make ourselves fully available to her. If we are hedging our bets and not making ourselves fully available and leaving all the responsibility to her, you see, then we are not doing full justice to her grace already. So just dive in fully. She has already blessed you so beautifully. Now it is incumbent upon you to fully devote your life to her, you see? So what is that hall? What is that house? The Self, the awareness. In that nothingness of awareness is the beautiful light of Consciousness. And from that light of Consciousness emerges all of this, all of these universes, all of this play. And ultimately, of course, you are that awareness in which even this life emerges. But as long as there's the 'me' that remains, that holds on to identity, that takes itself to be anything at all, it must be in servitude to that light, this 'me'.

Our life to her, you see. So what is that hall? What is that house? The Self, the awareness. In that nothingness of awareness is the beautiful light of Consciousness. And from that light of Consciousness emerges all of this, all of these universes, all of this play. And ultimately, of course, you are that awareness in which even this life emerges. But as long as there's the 'me' that remains, that holds on to identity, that takes itself to be anything at all, it must be in servitude to that light. This 'me' should never get identified with the Brahman. That is called the spiritual ego: the misidentification of the 'me' that remains with the highest in which even Consciousness takes birth. It is the Ravan syndrome, and that syndrome is everywhere.

So, I was seeing this show on Netflix called 'Moses' or 'The Testament of Moses,' and I realized that the Pharaoh in the story of Moses is exactly Ravan. Exactly Ravan is he. So many things are being shown to him, but he refuses to accept the fact that God is speaking to Moses, that that's a true God. He's like, 'No, no, but I am... I commune with the gods. I commune with Ra and Isis.' And you know, so his pride just doesn't let him see. Same thing happened to Ravan. His kingdom is getting destroyed, his brother, his sons are getting killed, you see? All his army, all his wealth is... but he's holding on to his pride till the last moment. Yeah. Why does that happen? Just till the mic comes to you... so why does that happen?

It happens because the practitioner identity, who was really desperate for the experience of the insight of the Self, you see, then when the insight comes, that practitioner identity finds a way to survive by claiming that it itself is awareness. And then it says, 'Oh, but why then? Why do I have to bow down? I am awareness. Why should I pray?' You see? And I wasn't brutally honest when all of you were resisting prayer by calling you Ravan, but that's the whole mindset, you see. Saying, 'But I am awareness, why should I pray?' That's exactly what Ravan was saying. 'I am that, why should I pray to Ram or Krishna?' Ravan didn't say Krishna, but that is the whole idea. 'Why should I pray to God because I am that?' The one who is the claimant to 'I am that' is not that. That is the one, that is the 'me' who remains. So that one must become a servant of God and in servitude to God.

It can seem subtle, but actually it's quite straightforward. So the simple way to check it is: is there something resisting unceasing prayer, unceasingly open and empty for God? You see, if something is resisting that, that is the one that must be in servitude to God. Because awareness cannot resist, isn't it? It cannot resist its own light of Consciousness; that would just be absurd. So the one that claims the spiritual identity of being awareness is the trickster. So that's the middle guy. When you say the 'checker guy,' is that that? The one, the same one. It's the same one who says, 'No, no, but you are not inquiring enough. No, no, you should be doing the...' The mental spiritual advisor also then becomes the mental spiritual claimant.

Exactly. I was feeling like that, like Ravan only. And I just feel like I'm so... I'm completely worthless. I can't... nothing will happen because I still have so much of interest. I'm holding on to so many things. I'm just like... it's a waste.

See, there's nobody in this room, including this one, who is not holding on to so many things. Sorry, Jivika is blocking... so 100% don't expect. Now, not 100%, not even like 1% is not even pure. So start now. If this moment, in this moment, give everything at your disposal to God. Be empty or just pray from your heart, you see? Because what can happen... I don't want you to get trapped in... so you see the loop, no? That 'selfish, selfish, selfish' and then 'I'm so selfish, I'm so selfish, I'm so selfish,' then 'selfish, selfish, I'm so selfish, I'm so selfish.' In either of those, there's no God, you see. Both can be mind tricks. So that 'I am so selfish,' if it is true repentance, then it must be, 'Oh, I'm so selfish, God, God, God, God,' you see? But if it says, 'I am so selfish, but I am so selfish, I am so selfish,' not that you're doing that, but this is the trick. Many children get trapped in that: 'I'm not humble, I'm not holy, I'm so selfish, I don't do this well,' you see? But it's still that self-concern; it is primary, you see.

So what you should do is, oh, you noticed you're being selfish? Okay, drop now. God, you see? Otherwise, discussing our selfishness will get us what? No, nothing. So it'll just give us some venting, some reassurance, all that will happen, you see. But really, even those moments are wasted away from God, you see. So this is also what I meant as an example of feeling spiritual or seeming spiritual, but again, God is missing from it because it's still about the 'me.' Yeah, you see? But I'm not saying that we must not notice. So we must notice and then immediately come to the right place now. Where are you?

Presence. It happens, Father. In your presence it happens, but it's like the going back. It is...

Stay, stay with me. You say in my presence it happens, but I have to go... I mean, we move out of your physical presence and then... then still that prayer is there, but it is not transforming. It is just not... it's not becoming the evidence of what the transformation is moment to moment. Can you transform this moment? Make it about God. Transform this moment, make it about God. This moment, you see? There's a lump of clay over there. It doesn't become a beautiful murti of Ram. Why doesn't it happen? You have to go in, you have to make the bow, you have to make the arrow, you have to make the mukut, you have to make the murti. So what is the raw material with you? Time. Don't waste a moment. Make it about God. Make it about God. And then don't say, 'I am transforming.' Let others come and tell you. Let your teacher come and tell you, 'Ah, you look transformed.'

I honestly felt here that it's a... this is not the true space. This is like still that... it is moving from...

Suppose you have 10,000 moments left. How many of those moments do you want to give to God?

One? Huh? One moment? Yeah, but every one of them... or no, okay.

So, okay, so your time starts now. How many moments of those are you willing to waste on the non-existent one? How many?

None. None.

Okay, so now starts now. Because the mind still continues to love, you see, our spiritual reports. But do you feel like our spiritual reports are truly spiritual? Because they have no spirit in them. So the mind loves, like you said, the checker guy, spiritual reporting, conclusions. As long as it's about 'me,' it is fine. Yeah, you see? You make it about God, it starts saying, 'But you will not make it, it's not for you, you are not there.' It tries to bring... have all of you noticed your center of gravity shifting away from the 'me' towards God, and then back to the 'me,' and then back towards God? You've seen that. So the idea of spirituality is to keep the center of gravity at God. No matter how true the report may seem about 'me,' I am not bothered, you see? You see what I'm saying? Keep the locus on God. Keep the focus also on God.

But the mind will... Father, just sometime back you were saying, what are we doing, you know, to... how much do we really want the presence, to feel the presence? So we have to have a table set, is what you said, Father. So praying, you know, devotion and, you know, being humble, all this is setting the table for...

Yes, yes, exactly, exactly. To be all that helps us to be empty of 'me,' available for God, is to set the table. So that's why, I don't know if all of you were here when I was sharing the Shabri example in satsang. That's so amazing, isn't it? That she spent so many decades of her life just setting the flowers on the path, picking the berries every day, tasting every one to make sure they are sweet for when Ram will come. She did not doubt that He will come. She had faith that He will come, and her faith did not waver for fifty, sixty... I don't know how many years. It looked like at least fifty, sixty years where every day one was to do this, you see.

So why is that story so important? That story is so important because we lose patience in fifty minutes, sixty minutes. 'Why is God not coming?' But to have that kind of faith, saying He will come, she will come, and to set the table is to... the same way like she laid the flowers on the path. We don't want Him to encounter this selfish, proud entity—non-entity actually. We want Him to encounter the highest that I have to offer. The sweetest berry is what? It's of course a true story, but also metaphorical. She's offering Him the sweetest fruit from the forest. What is the sweetest fruit that we have to offer Him? Our love, our humility, our devotion, our faith, our kindness, our compassion.

We know in our heart what is sweet to God. Like, we may deny it. We may say, 'I don't know, I'm more intellectual, I read scriptures, you know, I don't know about these things.' Like that. 'I'm more interested in existence and nothingness and all of those things.' But actually, we know in our heart what is sweet to God, what is right to God, what is good to God. And that is what we must cultivate. That is what we must grow in. So when He comes, then He gets the best fruits.

A beautiful way to put this across, Father. There was... there's one more thing I want to share. Can you just dwell on that a bit more so it becomes clear?

So, is our life a worthy fruit for God? Or is truth a worthy fruit for God? Truth. We would offer Him honesty, integrity, not lies. Is a life lived in anger and envy, you see, jealousy and competitiveness, the right fruit for God? It is kindness, it is sharing, it is letting the brother or sister go first. That is the worthy fruit for God. We know these things in our heart. When it comes to application moment to moment, that's where the mind tricks us.

And I'm fully aware that if all of you call me Father, you call me your teacher, then my life has to be a representative of that, you see. I cannot just be lip service. So I cannot just be unkind and selfish and angry and competitive and egoic and want to be seen and all of that, and then preach all of these things to you. Because then that preaching has no power if it doesn't come from a place of authenticity, you see. So I myself have to grow in this. I have to learn every day. I'm trying to learn, you see, and grow in this process. Because I don't want to be just a performer. I don't want it to be service because I want to set the table all the time for His presence to feast on. So the work is never done for anyone, for any of us.

The second part, Father. The other day you were mentioning that in the outside world when we deal with people, that's a true test for us and we have to look at them with love, love in our heart. So I experienced this, Father. So something that happened and where, you know, I was being told that, you know, 'You didn't do this, you didn't do that, you're not right,' all of that. Initially it was quite, you know, got offended. 'No, no, no, I was supposed to do... I mean, I did it because of a reason' and all that. But then, you know, I went to the prayer room and I just sat in front of God and then it came. I just realized from inside, Father, that I'm just a sinner, you know? It is easier just to say that, 'Okay, it's my fault' and just close it. It's the end of story. I did something wrong.

But even that is tricky. So what you're saying is actually the truth is something else, but it's easier to accept that 'I am only the sinner'?

No, no, no, I didn't mean...

I know you didn't, but it can come across like that, you see. And so... okay, so you didn't, but let me make the point for everyone. We must be careful of that because then we are not really meaning the prayer of the beggar servant. We're saying, 'But that is because nobody will accept that I'm right and they're wrong anyway, so let me make both of us feel better by saying I'm the sinner.' Okay, you didn't mean that. Okay. So it is very common in the human condition for us to get into those traps, you see. So when we say that we are the foolish ones... that when I say I'm a foolish beggar and a sinner who forgets God so many times, do you feel like I will want to feed God lies as my life? I wouldn't want to.

Meaning the prayer of the beggar servant we were saying, but that is because nobody will accept that I'm right and they're wrong anyway. So let me make both of us feel better by saying I'm the sinner. Okay, you didn't mean that. Okay. So it is very common in the human condition for us to get into those traps, you see. So when we say that we are the foolish ones—that when I say I'm a foolish beggar and a sinner who forgets God so many times—do you feel like I will want to feed God lies as my life? I wouldn't want to. So it has to come from a place of authenticity because I see my stupidity. I see that not one full day can I spend fully with God. And what kind of teacher must I be then? I don't know why all of you kids come. Can I spend fully? Only interested. Can't do it. So I fail on that criteria. But I'm trying honestly.

So, Father, if... so when you face criticism or somebody accuses you, then we must be obedient to God's will. Because sometimes, maybe most of the time, we can be meek about it and say whatever comes in that moment. But sometimes from your heart you'll be guided to share from or confront the issue even. But if you're not going with your heart, then be meek. If you're going to be mental about it, if you're going to take a position, take the sheepish position. But if you're going to go to your heart, then be completely open because the heart may tell you to pick up your bow and arrow. You don't know. Be careful of using this as an excuse, okay? Because God knows everything. You can't just fake it. Because if you win in the world, it doesn't help anything. You know what I mean by that? If you win in the world—suppose you picked up the bow and arrow and then when people ask you, you say, 'But my heart told me'—you'll get away with it in the world because the world has no way of verifying whether your heart told you or where it came from. And to the mind, that feels like, 'Oh, I got away with it.' You didn't. Because God knows everything. You had a bitter bear for arm by holding on to that lie. So be careful of the appreciation or the acceptance of the world; it actually doesn't mean anything at all. In your heart, you know.

So if you truly went to your heart and your heart had Krishna with the chariot waiting, saying, 'Get your bow and arrow, start firing,' then you must fire that. If it said, 'No, keep quiet and bow down,' then you must do that. But again I'm saying, it's not to be used because if you lie about it for your convenience and say, 'God told me this way,' then you cannot hide it from God. And what are you trying to do? Just to become right in the world, just lie, use God's name to lie about it? I see that in this world there may be even teachers using these kind of tactics because they think that to win in the world is enough. Don't fall for those things, my child. It's never... you may become the king of the world, but if you have not set the table right for God, you must make it right.

So what to do when you're faced with unfair criticism? If you are too caught up in your mind, then you're not able to bring your focus to God, then just be meek. Just bow down and say, 'I'm going to my room, let's talk about it later.' But if you can still be with your heart, then your heart will guide you. It'll put the words in your mouth, it will move you. And you cannot expect like the perfect outcomes in your mind because of that, but you know that the outcomes are perfect as far as the heart is concerned.

Further, I wanted to add... so the outcome is not something which I was reflecting on. What I was reflecting on was it makes sense if we bow down, rather than if we take a position. That was something which I was reflecting on, Father.

If you're going to take a position, let it be a position of bowing down. The higher position is to be empty and move with the will of God. But sometimes in these situations, we are not able to hear God because we have too much feeling, too much filth, or whatever in our head. Bow down.

Father, on this, Ravana sometimes seems undodgeable, no matter what one tries sometimes. And what I mean by that is there's the obvious Ravana which one can spot, then there is the place of calm abiding where His presence is, and then there's this limbo land which is Ravana dressed as the saint. Yes, and you talk about that and remind us all the time. So the amount of vigilance it takes to be able to distinguish that is also confusing in the sense that: Is this vigilance also now the 'checker guy'? Then there's no way I can figure this out. And my intuitive answer to myself is there is no... I don't have to get confused by all of these words I just said. Yeah, even if there is vigilance happening, I don't have to confuse that with the checker guy because there is a different texture to that vigilance. And that's all I have. I don't have anything more than that. Thank you.

That's a very good question. Thank you. And hopefully this will make everything simpler for all of you. So after having heard all of this, it may seem intimidating at times, like, 'Then what am I supposed to do? Am I being Ravana? But I seem like this, I seem selfish.' So really the trick is—let me put it this way—when we are in God's presence, you see, let's call being in His presence, let's call it heaven, huh? Now what cannot happen in heaven? You cannot suffer in heaven. You may still feel pain, but you can't suffer in heaven. And you cannot go wrong. You see, you cannot quote-unquote 'sin' in heaven. So really when I say that the compass is inside us in our heart and that will guide us, our job is just to be in that presence. To be in His presence. Then truly, if you're doing that, then external actions, inward postures, all that is taken care of.

And then if you're in the mind, let's call that hell or separation from God's presence. Then no matter if you are doing everything visually—not even visually, virtually—every step is taken in the right way, we're bowing down in the right direction, we have the Agni with the right ingredients, everything. But if it is missing God's presence, if it is missing, it is still not auspicious, truly. Especially for those who have found His presence. Those who haven't found His presence yet, or have found it but they can't really make it out, it's okay; they have to go by the book a little bit. But for them who can stay with Him, they must stay with Him, and then His will will become clearer and clearer for every situation.

Father, where the question is coming from—and thank you for just clarifying that, it helps a lot—but since I've been doing this, not getting out of bed till the presence is felt in a sustained way, still as the day evolves, as this body moves through its activities, interactions begin, there is something that is able to see that there is decay. I'm just using words that are... yeah, some kind of a decay. Yes. And then it rises again. Yeah. But that decay and the observation of that decay and that rising feels like a vigilance, yeah, but a very soft vigilance. It's not like this paranoid vigilance.

It can happen like this for all of us. So I'll give you an example. This morning I had some very strange dream where in the dream my son was caught in a riot close by and he called me. It's still a bit emotional for me to share, but he called me and said—like he used to talk like a baby, but he was a grownup—but he said, 'Oh, they are bothering us, Pops,' or something like that. And I remember the fear and the anger and all the emotion in the dream. I still remember it now. I said, 'You get down and fight, beta, I'm coming.' And then I started running. I was running on the road looking for him, and the dream ended. So I woke up and cried. And as soon as I finished crying, I called him and said, 'Are you okay? What's happening?' He was fine. He was watching WrestleMania or something. But maybe that's what I was picking up.

But in those moments of suffering, I was feeling disconnected from His life, from His presence. So that disconnection can be felt by all of us. So then I just prayed and returned to Him in the heart. So nobody can say that they've come to a point where His presence is constantly apparent to them. Nobody can say that we don't have to be vigilant or we don't have to return. Because especially in waking up, that's why this waking up thing is very important. Because it may seem like I am the body that went to sleep, but actually you're not the body. And who knows what all adventures in which universes you've had, you see? And then this play is back now, this realm is back, you see. So we can't presume that, 'Okay, if I went to sleep in the presence, I'll wake up in it.' It may happen most of the time, but we can't just presume it. So this short-circuiting the mind's trick, right first thing in the morning, to return to the presence is very powerful.

Yeah, Father. At some points in the day, it feels quite clear that the presence is, you know, is the life in which the sensations are appearing. It's the... in fact, it's the projector, it's the active one, and then it's projecting out the body and other things. But I mean, really the body, once you start to feel the body like, 'Okay, so the body is on the screen,' and then at that point you feel like everything is manifesting from the presence. All the doership is with God. And so all you can do is, you know, the only intelligent thing you can do is to be with the Creator rather than to be with the class of creation, if you want, you know, to be with life as opposed to with the product of the Creator. But these are fleeting glimpses. And then also a lot of times, you know, there's this sense about, 'I feel presence and now, you know, how now you start the inquiry again or start...' Again, it's the agent again becomes this person. You know, the agency is now shifted. And I've seen that the doer was the presence, but then again now it's, 'I'm back to let me start chanting' and then, you know, 'let me start...' And that's the 'me.' 'Let me start chanting, let me start doing the inquiry.' You know, it feels like the body is now trying to find God. So how do I break this? It's like a pendulum.

Yes. Okay, that's a good question. So there are two alternatives when we find ourselves caught, you see. Then there are two alternatives. One is that we notice it and we are able to drop the 'me,' you see. We are able to become open and empty. There's no 'me.' And naturally in that open and empty, the present light will become apparent. The other option is that the 'me' seems stickier; just the noticing doesn't seem enough, you see. If the 'me' seems stickier, then the 'me' better do whatever chanting, whatever prayer, whatever this thing, whatever is needed. Because otherwise the 'me' itself will use the Advaita talk to not return to God.

That's what you said now, Father. Even the practice, prayer, or inquiry can be 'man-ara.' And that Shabri example is, if she were to 'man-ara,' 'I laid the flowers and I got the berries,' and she was satisfied with that, then that's... so what is the way out of that? Can she like go... what is coming if that becomes the focus? Or how to...

Yes. Like you would not have the patience to do it for half a century without that faith that God is aware. He knows me. He knows every aspect of my existence. He remembers things which I can never remember about myself. So just that much faith is enough for us to dedicate our whole life to Him. What is the fear? The fear is: What will happen to the rest of it? But who is doing the rest of it? When Krishna picked up the Govardhan, the others also came and put their sticks, but who is actually holding it?

But why did He get the others to come? Like, that's the fear. What am I saying? Like, it just feels that until I actually meet Him, it'll always be about me. Some... whatever I do. It's only after I meet Him, it's only then I can make it about Him. Is it like that?

So whatever you're doing, it's on some faith that He is real, isn't it? So that faith was not there maybe five years back. So this will just keep deepening. It's a Sufi poem, I think it's by Farid, I don't know, somebody says that the...

But why did he get the others to come? Like, that's on the fear. What am I saying? It just feels that until I actually meet him, it'll always be about me. Whatever I do, it's only after I meet him, it's only then I can make it about him. Is it like that?

So whatever you're doing, it's on some faith that he is real, isn't it? So that faith was not there maybe five years back. So this will just keep deepening. It's a Sufi poem, I think it's by Farid, I don't know. Somebody says that the translation is: 'Even after I die, my eyes remain open waiting for you.' That is a level of faith or waiting I can have that. Baba's words are so, so good and they are, you know where? And this is the beauty of our country. So, Sheikh Farid or Baba Farid's words would not most likely have been found by us in India so much unless if we were not to meet them in the Guru Granth Sahib. They've been captured in the Guru Granth. So he says some very beautiful thing like this. He says, 'May my head be cut off if it is not bowed down to you.' And I don't know if all of you heard what Atmik said, that even after this body dies, may my eyes be open waiting for you. Very, very beautiful. In every culture, in every religion, in every tradition, if you dig deeply enough, we'll find so much love for God because that is what quenches our thirst. No matter what else we get in life, nothing else fulfills our longing like God can, or only God can.

What is the true nature of Consciousness and bodily death? What is the true nature? I mean, in other words, the body and Consciousness go together, the twins, isn't it? The body is appearing in the Consciousness in a way, in a way, in a way. Same time, the cause, the Creator, is the Consciousness. And then when that appearance fades, does Consciousness also dissipate? What happens to—?

No, no. So, okay. So yeah, it is beyond anything that can be said. But the construct that appeals to me the most, let me put it that way—you see, because in God's will everything can be true or false—but the construct that appeals to me the most is the dream construct. That this realm will vanish. I may remain just with His presence or another realm, that I don't know. But when this realm vanishes for that which I call me, whether there is something left here for the rest to see, this lifeless body or not, I can't really say. But it's like in my dream, I can see bodies full of Prana Shakti and then empty of Prana Shakti, but the Consciousness actually remains unaffected by all of that. So that is the construct that I like the most. Dream, dream. Everything, this dream is over for me. So I may just, if I'm lucky, I may just be in His presence and nothing else may show up. Or if it is His will, then more of this Maya will show up and I hopefully I'll continue to fight to be in His presence instead of forgetting all about it. Just like a dream in the night, you see? When I wake up in that dream, many times the one who is there is not interested in God at all. So what a wasted opportunity. So who can tell? Question? She has a question.

I was talking earlier about, you know, like when I can really feel the presence of God and it's like sometimes after those experiences, the force and intensity with which the mind comes, it's like with vengeance. Exactly. And I think I kind of quite resonated with the word that he used, 'pendulum.' And I see myself oscillating actually between feeling like life has nothing else for me except her, like I want to melt in her feet, or sometimes like it becomes a concept again and then unrelatable. So it's like I'm swinging between polarities.

So already it is Grace that you are at least swinging, huh? Because most of our brothers and sisters in the world are living in the hellish, seemingly hellish existence of apparent separation from God. Now admittedly, what happens is those who come to God, to God's presence, and then switch out and then have this oscillation going on, you see, for a while it seems like life is more difficult for them than it was before. You see, because you started to get a taste of the nectar. You see, you get a taste of the holiness, yes, and then it just becomes like an idea. 'Was I just making it up? Was I hallucinating? Am I fooling myself?' You see? And then we are back into it. I feel like, 'Wow, of course I cannot make this up.' So it's like that. Although it is Grace, for a while it seems like more suffering, you see? But I tell you that everyone who's been in satsang in this room has made this report of this oscillation back and forth. But the pendulum will get more and more weighted towards God. I often used to humor everyone and say, you see, when you go for a movie, at least most of us, so what happens is there's an arc. There's an arc of the story. The protagonist goes through a lot of bad things, a lot of ups and downs, and then slowly they build up, you see? But sometimes in the Art House type movies, what happens is that they just abruptly come to an end, you see? Like that. And most people say, like if they're trying to be fancy, they'll say, 'Oh, what a great movie.' But actually most say they could have played it out a little bit, you see? Because the arc of the suffering was so much, but the arc of the redemption or the arc of the freedom from the wilderness, whatever is happening, was very short and too abrupt, you see? So just like this, we've deluded ourselves. We've lived in this pretend separation in this Maya for who knows how long, you see? So Consciousness also enjoys the taste of deepening, deepening, deepening, deepening. So that's how this Maya seems to be designed for most of us.

There's some hesitation with this question, but it's sometimes... no prayer. You tell me if I'm going wrong because prayer or presence of God, Father, sometimes feels deeply pleasurable. That's the word. But it's not pleasure like the way pleasure is experienced. It's just very deeply pleasure. And sometimes there's a fear that comes that I'm again making it about pleasure here because—

But are you? But it's felt, no? It's felt, but because it's felt doesn't mean you're making it about that. I don't... that you will experience very sweet love, very sweet joy, and sometimes it will feel arid, you see? Sometimes it will feel dry, you see? But that doesn't have anything to do with our progress. It all only has to do with God's grace, what He wants to feed us in that moment, you see? So, but in your heart, you know that you're doing it for the love of God or for the love of that sublime taste of the sweetness. Don't worry. Right now we are at a stage where enjoy, just enjoy the sweetness, enjoy everything. Don't... if it gets in your way, keep reporting.

When I'm not in the presence of God, I've completely forgotten about that. Yeah. But when I chant His name again, it's felt in the heart. Then I don't go for that, but that's enjoyed. Like I genuinely, I feel like there's some—

Yeah, it's good to enjoy it. It's from that that all the leelas of Krishna, all the... in that Bhakti, all this was written and experienced by them. And you'll notice that if your eyes waver from Him, then life gives us nudges. If we learn to follow nudges, then we are okay. Don't wait for the slaps. Sublime, sublime taste. That is seen. That's the experience what we enjoy. Yeah, but it is unlike anything else you've tasted in the world. Yeah, and the taste of God is something. And that's also seen, like it's very subtle at times. Yeah, it is. And something then wants that experience again.

Yeah, yeah. And that's how you can get trapped in the taste of the experience rather than of God. But I'm saying that sometimes because the mind knows too much spirituality, it's placing barriers before we even encounter that problem. It feels sometimes like too much Gyan, like don't want anymore. Correct. I mean, it's too much known mentally. So the mind comes up with these trump cards and says, 'Ah, it's the taste which you like.' You see? 'It's not God, it's the taste which you like.' You see? Which itself may be the trick to keep you away from God. So taste it a hundred times, then we'll see if you are attached to it. It's there. That's why when we... I don't know how to say this actually. When we start to love the taste of the untastable, you see? Like the purity. Like suppose you've gone to a Middle Eastern country or Mexico or something. Some of these countries, they drink Coca-Cola like water. So if you're a visitor there, you're just being offered Coke, Coke, Coke. You're having it. After five glasses or something, you're like, 'No, just give me some water.' You see? So the pristine taste of the presence itself is so... it quenches our thirst much more than even the sublime byproducts. So don't worry. I don't feel like any of you will go after... if you become a bliss junkie, then I'll tell you don't. I don't see that at this. Don't let these things prevent you from being with God, you see? Because then again, we are solving it for 'me.' 'Do I want taste or do I want God?' The locus shifts back to the 'me.' Even all of this, stay with God. No, no. Self is Self and God is God, like that. Just kidding.

So if you're being Vedantic, then the highest God is the Nirguna Brahman. Then the Saguna. The Saguna is like Ishwara Sah. Then the Jagat is the creation of this world, which is also called Maya. So it's very beautiful. Is it Kabir Ji or Rahim Ji who said it is Saguna or Nirguna, it is the same Krishna? It is also very beautiful because you also find that holy presence within yourself which is both Saguna and Nirguna. The being that you come to, is it Saguna or Nirguna? Both, isn't it? Because if it was just Saguna, then it would be like an object. You see, somebody could cut it out and say, 'Here, God, Atma.' See? And if it was purely Nirguna, it would just be like pure awareness, you see? Therefore inaccessible for most of humanity, if not all, you see? So this Satguru presence, this Atma within, this presence of God, this Holy Spirit, whatever name we give to it, you see, it serves as an escape from reliance on Maya because you encounter something which is unique in the world. We only encounter objects. When you encounter something which is truly there but not an object, or beyond an object, then our eyes open up and say, 'What is this? How can it happen?' You see? And in the light of this presence, then we are able to dive deeper into the pure Nirguna. The pure Nirguna cannot be found unless it is in the light of the Satguru presence within. Has anybody met anything which is both an object and not an object in the world? We can't meet such a thing. But your Atma is there. Your presence is that. No, feelings are just pure sensations, phenomena. What else do they have? You can't take it like an object. You can say, 'Okay, because I tasted this, I was feeling very angry or very happy,' with the quantified amount of feeling that you're experiencing more or less. With Atma, you cannot say more Atma or less Atma. With this byproduct, you mean, isn't it? Your presence, your being is not more or less. Your focus may be dissipated. Somebody says Lord Shiva said to Vashistha in quotes that constant experience of pure Satchidananda God situated in the heart region is the best meditation, and that itself has been called the highest worship. Beautiful. The prayer of the heart. You can marvel at how every tradition says the same thing, but it's actually how it is, no? So all sages of different cultures and traditions find these to express the same reality. Have your—