All the Experiencing Is Happening in the Light of God - 3rd January 2024

Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this a bit. So once you recognize that you are the absolute reality and you recognize also that God is with you, God's presence is right here as your very being, then how is every moment not full of wonder, gratitude, love? And I'm not saying that we must force it, that we must like, 'Oh, but God is here, I must celebrate, I must rejoice.' You see? Okay, maybe sometimes the reminder is helpful like that, but I'm not talking about a forced rejoicing. But I'm just pointing out that something somewhere is blocking the fact of what is being discovered and making it regular or normal.

And that is why the trouble with some of the terms that we use, like when we say Consciousness or beingness... as I more and more have started saying, the living presence of God or the living being of God, because otherwise they can sound like scientific terms or philosophical terms, or they can sound like just elements. But so to put it simply, if God was sitting in a manifest form in front of you, would we celebrate? Most likely, yes. Yes, we can't really say, maybe we'd be... yeah. And you can tell me to slow down or translate, we can do all of that, there's no problem.

So if He was here manifestly, how would we be? And why is it that if He's here in a much more intimate way—is He much more closer than our very breath—He's here, so how is that not valued as much as if He were sitting in front? That is what I mean by faith. That your insight is showing you that His presence is here and it is real. Your eyes are showing you a world which is different from that. Which do we value more? Which do we trust more? Just a matter of value, maybe that is the first step. Because even that invitation to value, why is it needed? Why is it needed?

So let's stay in the metaphor. So if God was sitting on the couch in front, you see, we would say, 'Wow, I'm blessed, my life is made, it's done. Thank you, thank you, thank you for appearing. This is what I've prayed for all my life.' But when you have an insight about it, that God's presence is much more intimately there with you now than any manifest appearance could be—beyond any manifestation is your presence—then because our mind somewhere gets in the way and still pulls us towards valuing this more than really what you're finding within, that is why the invitation to value your discovery is there. But really it comes down to faith.

So I ask almost in every satsang: Have you found God? And most of you raise your hands after my prodding like five, six times. But most of you raise it. And that's why I keep asking this question: but how come we are not living like that then? What is... where is the gap? Huh? That insight should be there all the time. And does the insight go away or do we go away? So does the... sorry, my one second... so does the insight come and go or do we come and go? Huh? Yes. Yeah, with our belief, that aspect of Consciousness which is recognizing itself, you see, then decides to value what its own instrument called the mind is saying, and we lose that recognition. We lose that insight. So it is not that the insight comes and goes; you come and go. Huh? You see that? Yeah.

Okay, let's stay with the insight and let's see when it goes away. When does it say, 'Okay, I'm done here, I have to go to the next one, your time is up, I'm going'? So God's presence goes away or the insight into the absolute reality of the Self goes away? Can anyone ever say that? But it does seem to go away, and we must catch that. When does it seem to go away? Why is it that some can live in Atma Gyan, some can live in Atma Darshan, and others seem to get a glimpse of it and it goes away, and others don't ever get a glimpse of it at all?

If Atma was there, do you think that it would pick and say, 'No, no, I'm going to be only available in these ones'? No, it's universal. The insight is always here, but I leave because I'm interested in the perception and I still want something from outside. Yes. So if you're going to be... if you want to be technical about it, we can say that in the design of Maya, you, Consciousness itself, has made Maya to be a compelling game. Isn't it? It's a worthy compulsion in the sense that it truly fights for your identity, for your attention. So when we seem to be the player in the midst of this game, then constantly we are pulled between the head and the heart, and we must... we are learning to rest or remain in the heart.

Has it ever been that we had carried the intention to remain in the heart but being leaves, God's presence leaves, or the Self which is witnessing all of this leaves? Has it been? Same. You can't get to the insight? Huh? To the insight? Yeah. So when you ask, 'Can I stop being?' what happens? I try to stop being. Don't ask conceptually. Don't be for a moment. Don't exist. Stop existing. All of you, whoever succeeds can raise the hand. And don't speculate. So your mind will tell you, 'What? I can stop in sleep state or if I become unconscious.' No, we are not speculating right now. Don't be. Succeeded? What happened?

I don't know. I don't know in the sense that you try to not be and then... but you were still around.

Should I ask another way? Like, yes, I'm... of course I can't stop being, but I still... it's still all the same. Like, I don't know, I still don't have an... I see, I see. Okay, let me ask the question in a different way. How do you know? What is the most primal way in which you know that you are awake? What is here on the basis of which you say that you are awake? So you may say breath, world, sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch. But if all these also went away one by one and you came to also came to nirvikalpa samadhi where even the breath may stop, with the absence of any of these sensations, if all these sensations were to go away, would you still be awake or asleep?

No, I just know. I don't just know... don't need sensations, just... just know.

You just know that you're awake. Yeah. Yes. So what is known when we just know that we are awake? Is there like a wakefulness presence? So if, and possibly this will happen, that satsang will become boring then and you were just closing your eyes to meditate but you fell asleep for a minute and then you woke up, which I noticed most of you do, then you woke up. But you notice that, isn't it? Because your first reaction many times is, 'Did Father see?' or 'Who saw?' So you notice the going away of this wakefulness also, or no?

Yeah, this is always going. When is going? Huh? Yes.

So this which goes away when you are asleep and you still remain to notice that this is not there, and then this comes back and you still remain to notice, 'Ah, sorry, sorry, I fell asleep for a minute.' You admit that there must be a witness throughout, that even the absence of wakefulness is noticed. That's why we can confirm, yeah, there is a witness.

How? It's like... kind of sleeping... the witness... but that is the one that is perceiving.

Yes, so the one that is perceiving sight, hearing, taste, smell, all that—that one also goes away. But that going away, who is there to notice it also goes away? Nobody can report on their own absence, isn't it? Something has to be witnessing even the absence of this, that even perceiving was not there, the perceiver was not there, we may say. But who is aware that even the perceiver was not there? That is the primal witnessing, the pure witnessing, the sakshi as it is called.

So this wakefulness, what is that? Huh? Consciousness. Yes, it is Consciousness. And another name for Consciousness is God, beingness, Consciousness, presence—all we refer to as God. What are the boundaries of this Consciousness? So to confirm that something has no boundary, can you do it with your senses? You see, there's the difference. No, you may look up at the night sky and you may say, 'I don't perceive a boundary,' so then I can speculate and say it is boundless. But when we speak of Consciousness, we are not doing that—perceiving everywhere and saying, 'Okay, I can't find a boundary,' that's why I'm calling it boundless. It is more like an intuitive insight that this being has no bounds. Able to check like this? Yes.

So this is the way we contemplate in satsang. Contemplation in satsang is different from contemplation in the world. In the world, contemplation means to sit and think about it mostly, to sit and evaluate and to calculate and then come to the right... to infer, to use logic and then to come to the right conclusions is a worldly contemplation. In satsang, the contemplation means to carry the question in your heart, to carry the intention of the question and allow the intuition to reveal what needs to be revealed.

So stay there. Stay here now. This wakefulness or beingness whose presence is palpable—is it palpable for all of you? Are you getting... all of you getting the question first? Because the question itself may be confusing. Okay, so what happens when I ask myself, 'Can I stop being?' I notice intuitively that there's a boundless being, but also I notice something which is like a primordial vibration, you see, which I... I try to stop being. And if you do it with the innocence of a child, it's very easy. Then you may notice something, something which is not a thing is here. Is it? And that is the beauty of this, that is the 'woo-woo' in all the spirituality, because otherwise we can just understand...

Because the question itself may be confusing. Okay, so what happens when I ask myself: 'Can I stop being?' I notice intuitively that there's a boundless being, but also I notice something which is like a primordial vibration. You see, I try to stop being, and if you do it with the innocence of a child, it's very easy. Then you may notice something—something which is not a thing—is here, isn't it? And that is the beauty of this. That is the 'whoa' in all the spirituality, because otherwise we can just understand and use our intellect, you see. But this, this is clear. Or yes? Where did I lose you? I lost somewhere, huh?

It's not noticed in this way that...

And it's okay if it's not, because here for many years I struggled with this because I couldn't notice this. The primordial vibration of I-amness, the OM, the primordial word, the Shabad as it's called in the Sikh tradition, is the presence of God in the light of which all this experiencing is happening. So when Bhagavan said, 'In whose light do we see the light of the sun?' what is the answer to that? Because if that light goes away, then even the sun is not noticed. So that presence is holy because it is unlike anything else in the world. Is there anything else in the world like that? Not because, oh, it's special in that way, but everything else in the world is objective, no? It's phenomenal. This we can't really say it's phenomenal because I notice it as a primordial vibration. It's non-phenomenal because I recognize its infinity, its eternalness, which is not possible with phenomena, you see. And the best part is that we learn to rely on our intuitive capability to come to this insight, so that becomes the foundation of a new life—a spiritual life which is centered and anchored around the presence of God's light within. That is what it means to move from the head to the heart. Now, where do we get stuck? And I'm very happy to communicate about it always because this is where I want all of us to live.

It's very clear. Like when you see, like it's the light in which we see the light. And it's like this is like the paradox that on one hand it's like so clear, I know it from since childhood, but I didn't have these terms.

Yes, exactly.

And it's like, yeah, I would call it like a home or I don't know, like an inner peace or beauty. But yeah, I wouldn't give it the name of presence. And also, like, I'm afraid to put the labels around, you know? It's more like it's always here, but I cannot go by the effort. It's like...

So is there any other sign of the fact that you are present? That you're present here? What is the most clear sense of that? Is it sensory perception that confirms that you are present here? No. It is this very I-amness. That's why it's called the presence, because it is that which leads to us being present for us to be able to confirm that 'I am.' How would you explain it to somebody who's new? What would you call this?

The one which just like... I feel it like a Holy Spirit or like something... what is this? Like the core. The core, like the main, like this little spark in everything, like in plants and animals and everywhere. And I recognize it, and I think it takes one to recognize it.

Very good. So those terms are also beautiful. If you say it is the core or if you say it is the Holy Spirit, beautiful. No problem with any of those. So that which you call the Holy Spirit, often I've said that this is the same as what we call the Atma or the Satguru presence. Now this Atma is called so many different things because it has all those qualities. It is the best guide, so that's why it is called the Satguru. It is the best refuge, so that's why it's called the true home. It is the light of this universe because only when this is here is any experience or experiencing possible; that's why it's called the light of this universe. It is the basis on which I can say that I exist, I am; that is why it's called the presence. It is the centrality, like you said, the core of our life. But because it is so vast, if you have to communicate about it, then we have to communicate about an aspect of it. So sometimes we say it is the Satguru presence, it is the light of the universe, it is the primal primordial vibration, it is the wakefulness, aliveness, beingness—so many different names for it because it is actually undefinable, and yet we have to point.

The one which you start with, like God in physical form is in front of you, and then what makes you come back to that point? I don't know.

What is the expression of Consciousness that you most resonate with at the moment, at least? Can you come again there?

That you most resonate with? Krishna.

Krishna. So suppose that you looked up and you saw that Krishna, Lord in the most magnificent form that you can imagine him, is actually in front of you in the manifest form. Then what would your reaction be? And we can't—it's a bit of speculation admittedly.

Yes. So I came to that point and then when you said 'go back,' why after that also you go back to the mind? Why the mind?

Like if Krishna is in front of you in his shining splendor, then for what will you go to the mind? Let's say I have nothing to do physically for the next one hour, one and a half hours. No social obligation, no physical obligation. Sheer presence is there. Still it goes. But why? That's exactly what the question is starting. That's exactly what the question is.

On this, Father, I felt the same thing. Like mind goes outwards, it gets distracted and anything. But there's something I observed today, Father, so I really wanted to share. So feel the presence, that's Advaita. And that's why I think Bhakti really plays a big role where suppose I think of my Ishta and I love her so much that love is so much that it brings me back. Yes, I felt that was a strong thing, Father, that love that I have really just brought me back. That's the anchor for your spirituality.

Yeah. Can what I see, Father, is being with Krishna even in the physical form will only be possible in moment to moment. That is one. Because as soon as I go beyond that... I'm not saying the reverse, but I'm saying that if you saw the most astounding thing, then it is easy to be moment to moment because you're just looking at that. You're spellbound in a state, whatever you call it, but you're just with that. The problem with worldly things is that as astounding as they may be, there's a limit to our attention span, a limit to our valuing something physically. So the sweetest taste, the most pleasant sight, the best music, the best feel, the best everything lasts only for a little while, which is the limitation on attention and perception, you see. And that's why we lead lives full of discontentment because that which we thought will give us eternal joy, eternal pleasure, even if we were to get that, it doesn't last for very long. But when you come to this, then what happens? That is the only place where eternal satisfaction can be found, eternal contentment can be found. But there's a phase of the Mahabharat, you see, the battle before that, before you can come to rest in your Atma forever even while this body is still breathing. It is usually after that distraction of the mind is overcome. So all my provocations, prodding, is to really question you and ask you: So why are you spending so much time with the mind when God is here? Why are you spending so much time on the 'me' which you cannot find when His presence is here? It's a huge trick because in the label of Consciousness and beingness, even God, even presence, even wakefulness, aliveness—whatever label you give it—after some time it builds enough defenses for it where the beauty, the love, the joy is taken out of it and it becomes, 'Yeah, presence is here, but you know, I...' But what are we saying? We're saying that the only Being, the highest Being in the universe is here, but I am busy with the 'me.'

Your guidance is it has to go through the Mahabharat before it settles?

Yes, that is the usual situation in the human condition—that this period of back and forth, back and forth, to switch over from head to heart, you see. When Being is switching over its operating system from using the head to using the heart, from going from a worldly life to a spiritual life, from darkness to light. In Yoga they say, what is that? See, the aberrations or the changes in Consciousness, which are actually just proposed by the mind. The Nirodha is to stop, for that to stop, to come to no-mind, to come to Amanasa. It is this movement away from the head into the no-mind, into the unborn, into a life being led in the heart. But what happens? The mind uses every tactic. Nanak Ji said hundreds of different smartness will come. Our own spiritual knowledge will block us. It'll come and say, 'But this, but that.' Instead of that, we must try it out. Try to live headlessly and see what happens. That much risk we have to take because no amount of convincing you will do it. You will never be convinced enough in the head to leave the head. So don't wait to be fully convinced, because conviction is just a deeply held belief. We are talking about intuition, which is not based on belief or disbelief. Anything your intuition tells you, the mind can never really believe, isn't it? It says, 'Oh, my presence is boundless.' Mind you, for me, know less and love more. No less and love more, yes.

So useful tip. Know less and love more. So Father, these questions that keep coming, should we just not ask them or pay attention to them?

Give me an example of the question.

Any... I'm not inclined to actually ask any question right now, but okay, let's pretend there's a question that keeps coming. Which question would that be? Okay, so let's take any question, say, 'What should I do with my life?' or 'How will I make money?' I'm sorry, it's more like, 'What do I do with this recognition?'

What do I do with this recognition? Okay, very good, very good. So, 'What do I do with this recognition now?' And I can see that it's the mind asking. Yes, it is the mind which is asking, 'What do I do? Recognition has happened, so what? What's so great about it? What is so good about it? What is everybody talking about?' That's it, yeah. So that's the question. Now, we just talked about the difference in contemplating a question in the world, the usual way of contemplation, and contemplating in satsang or contemplating in Vedanta. So say, 'Okay, of what use is this recognition?' So what if there's recognition? Stay with that in your heart and let your heart answer that. Let your intuition answer that, you see. Then the invitation from the mind to speculate and to say, to become discontent and to say, 'Oh, I found this being, but it was always here. I knew this even when I was a child. What is the big deal in all of this?' you see. And whose voice is that? Who is being represented in that? Then we say we recognize it is the mind. The mind is posing as the voice of the ego, the voice of the non-existent 'me,' and saying, 'What is the use?' Today seems to be the theme since morning; this question is coming from everyone, which is that, 'Okay, I came to the presence, I'm coming to true insight, so what?' So what? Why should we take that question?

I guess like for me, just that answer to that question from the heart is just everything is all right. I think the answer for me from the heart was just everything is all right. That just felt sense of everything is all right. I guess my question though is around purpose and when it comes from the mind and when it comes from the heart, because those are different. And how do you work through what's emerging?

So when you mean heart, what exactly are you talking about? Is it the same one, the same heart that I'm speaking of? Yes, knowing. Just pure knowing, just the pure intuition.

Sounds good, yes, that makes sense. I think the answer for me from the heart was just everything is all right. That just felt sense of everything is all right. I guess my question, though, is around purpose and when it comes from the mind and when it comes from the heart, because those are different. And how do you work through what's emerging?

So when you mean heart, what exactly are you talking about? Is it the same one, the same heart that I'm speaking of?

Yes, knowing. Just pure knowing. Just the pure intuitive knowing.

Yes, always go with your heart if it is the same one. That's the reason why it is called the Atma or the Satguru presence. Because if you recognize it is that of the Holy Spirit, then if you frame it in that way—that my Atma is saying one thing, or the Holy Spirit is saying one thing, or the Satguru presence is saying one thing, but my head is saying another—what should I do?

I think for me the head gets stuck in the how. The how, the why, the when, all the... yeah, the why. I think my head has come around to that there's a force that is pulling and there's no stopping this force, but the how... and sometimes there's anger.

Yes, so thank you. Thank you for that question. So the heart is saying move to Timbuktu, suppose. The head will say, 'What? Just throw my life away? How can... how is it possible? How?' See? But then what are we meant to do? So the key is not to go on expeditions to the heart and live in the head, is it? Live in the heart and go on occasional forced visits to the head. What that means is that let the heart move you, let the heart guide you. You see, I've seen in my life that the one who takes every breath of this body also can move every step of these feet and every word from this mouth.

But sometimes it's hard to know which one, because the head can pose as the heart. So that's exactly that fine-tuning, I think, is where I'm having trouble.

Exactly, exactly. So this is the question that everyone that is coming to a true spirituality needs to grapple with. And I provided some tools to help you with this. So if you notice the presence of an unconditional love—unconditional love—and if you're checking with integrity, because many times our mind itself will just try to pose, you know, and say, 'Yes, yes, but love is here, it is my heart that said...' But you have to just start with the silence. Just start with not rushing.

So the first tip is the presence of an unconditional love as the guidance is being received. So actually, even before that, it is important to say that if your intention is to follow God or to follow your heart, the Holy Spirit within, then even if you get tried by the mind, it's all right. He's going to take care of you. You don't have to worry. So it's your intention that counts more than anything else. So we don't have to worry that much about it. But having said that, I'll still give the tips so that we can discern more clearly.

Like the head—head is always rushing, is always authoritative and troublesome. Even when it's pretending, like some of you feel like you're hearing Ananta's voice saying, 'My dear child, I want you to...' but you can still smell, you know, that if it's coming from the head, it's a head which is posing. Because there's no love there, there's no patience there. Your heart is never going to push you. It is never going to be authoritative. It is not going to say, 'We're running out of time.' See, all this is the mind's rushing, grasping. So if you notice tendencies to rush and to grasp, then you can notice it is the mind. If you notice the presence of an unconditional love, then you can be pretty certain it's the heart.

But the subtler clue is that if you notice it coming from the presence itself, from the Atma within. So the presence is palpable to you. It's subtler, but it's almost impossible to replicate for the mind because this is purely intuitive inside. The presence is purely intuited. So while that is happening, the mind cannot function. So that is the second: the presence being tangible or palpable. And the third, which is the subtlest—beyond subtle, actually—is that the reality of the pure witnessing, the pure awareness which is your truth, your reality, that is apparent to you as this guidance is being received. Then you can trust that guidance to be coming from Divinity, from the higher place.

Now I've given all of it, now not expecting all of it to be immediately clear. But how it works in satsang is that we seed it, you see? We seed it and then it flowers within you. It just flowers because something is heard, even if most things the mind will not be able to grasp, you see? But it gets assimilated somewhere and then it starts to flower within. So how to distinguish between the selfish egoic voice of the mind versus the holy voice of the Atma within? The presence of unconditional love, the guidance coming from the presence itself, and the truly non-phenomenal insight of your absolute reality being apparent. Those are tools which you can use to check. Soon it will become second nature. Just become second nature. The texture of it actually is so distinct. Initially we may need these tools, but soon the love-soaked words from the heart are quite apparently distinct.

I know what you're talking about. When that happens, there's nothing stopping... like there's no thought, you're just... the action comes like that knowing that you're talking about. And so the goal in some ways is to trust that the knowing will come and take action when it does instead of...

Yeah, and allow that to move you when it comes. Don't even make that like, 'Okay, guidance came, now I must act on it.' God, you move me. You move me. Then He moves you. You'll see the beauty of this, that if you start your day also like this, saying, 'You do it.' See, the mind is very scared of that because it feels like you'll become irresponsible, you'll sit on bed all day, you'll not be productive, efficient, all of that. But those who have tried it never have a complaint, really. You can come back.

I wanted to check something with you about that. See if I'm... I'm fooling myself, because I don't feel...

I don't feel you're fooling.

Yeah, because I don't feel that I am. But oftentimes I find that there is a big distinction when guidance comes from God. However, I don't always, or it doesn't always fall into one of those three categories that you just mentioned and that you always do, like... like what happened then.

Like maybe an example?

Like what I told you about this morning. That I haven't moved. Usually, like the expression here is I move very fast, but it hasn't happened. And it hasn't happened because there's a deeper knowing.

Movement you will be the same. That is not... how is it known that...?

It's just there's no noise around it. There is no grasping, leaning, pushing.

Yeah, those are good signs. Those are good signs, yes.

But what I wanted to check with you is like during the day sometimes there is more recognition of who I am, sometimes there is less. Sometimes there is more unconditional love, sometimes there is less. But with, for instance, this movement, this has been there for days and it's clear regardless of where I am in the recognition, let's say.

Yes, it's fine. Because like I said, if your intention is to follow God, then that's the most important thing. And remember that for God, past and present are no big deal. In the sense that we always feel like God will change our future. Past, present, and future are no big deal in the sense that we always pray for things in the future, but when we pray, He may have changed our entire past and we don't even realize it. I'm saying to another child a simpler way. Even scientists, physicists are saying it's four dimensions. What are the four dimensions? X, Y, Z, and time. Exactly. So those are the four dimensions, right? So these are three dimensions: X, Y, Z. I can pick up this object in any X, Y, Z and put it in any X, Y, Z. So if God is beyond all of these dimensions, and He is, then for Him to move it across time also, it's not a big deal. It's a very simplistic way of looking at it.

A countless number of dimensions there can be. So mind is actually very limited. We used to do these experiments, remember? Let's see how powerful the mind is. So imagine one orange. Imagine four oranges. Four? Done. Imagine seven. Then ten. Ten? How many able to do ten precisely? Ten. Okay, fifteen. Huh? In line? Yeah, arrange them in a line with fifteen. Exactly fifteen. There must be... done? Huh? Fifty-five? Okay, thirty-seven. What? Thirty-seven? Yes, do that. Do that. Imagine all the lines. Seventy-nine? But it'll fail at some point. Yeah. So, but the mind loves to ask questions like, 'What is eternal? How do I find infinity?' So if I said to the mind, 'Okay, thousand oranges,' no chance. One hundred and fifty? Most of you will find no chance.

So it has... we have the ability in our head to ask the biggest question, but the instrument which is asking is very limited in its capacity to actually fathom. So even the notion of four dimensions, it has to only like know as a concept; it can't fathom it. Infinity it can only know as a concept, but can't really fathom it. Eternity it can't fathom it, you see? And yet these concepts are universal across cultures, across traditions, across any part of the... there is some notion of eternity, some notion of infinity. Where does all of this come from? Morality? Good? 'I like you because you're so good, so good.' Where does that good come from?

So I'm sounding like Plato, of course, but that was his thing: that God, truth, and good are the same thing. He would not probably would not say God, actually, but it's very similar to Satyam Shivam Sundaram. Beauty, the highest reality, and truth are the same. He called it the theory of forms. Like how do we... where are these categories stored which are then universally accessible to humanity and maybe to other species as well? The categories of goodness, the categories of truth, the categories of beauty. So that universal intelligence.

So the thing is, I remember that when I was an atheist, I used to think I'm smarter than everybody else. But I didn't realize that actually I had not deeply looked. That's why when I saw this someone saying that how is it more comfortable to believe that all this beauty, intelligence, goodness, truths, all of this comes from like an inert nothingness rather than from the most highest being? It's absurd, isn't it? Now that we look at it from that lens, where does all this come from? So we much rather buy the notion of like the Big Bang, which means that from a sheer inert nothingness all this time, space, and all its elements came, rather than it being the Leela or it being the play of the highest intelligence.

The Big Bang was the way that scientists had to describe the actual emergence of the world. I don't understand it. Like when I hear them talk about it, I feel like, okay, they're talking about Brahman.

You know what it always reminds me of? And I'm not a physicist at all. I used to read a lot of physics books just to think I'm intelligent. But it always reminded me of in the old days how those monitors would come on. You would press the on switch and from that it just all the light would come. It always reminded me of that. And that fits very well with the... the cathode tubes used to have that initial dot and then the whole screen would be full of life. Okay, I'm old, I'm aware. She's looking at me like, 'What's he talking about?' So like that, it always reminded me of that. So it's like this game program coming on. No, not nonsense, but not sense.

Then I heard one person talk about how it doesn't actually disagree with the way we have to see the world. It's just not one moment, that every...

Yes, and we can never say when the dream started, isn't it? Because I keep saying this, that the dream could have just started, but somebody comes and asks your name in the dream or asks you where you're going. You don't say, 'Give me a few minutes, my dream has just started.' You say, 'I'm coming from my house over there. You see, I walked for the last twenty minutes, I'm tired of walking, and I'm going to go to this place. Somebody's waiting for me.'

We have to see the world. It's just not one moment that every... yes. And we can never say when the dream started, isn't it? Because I keep saying this, that the dream could have just started, but somebody comes and asks your name in the dream or asks you where you're going. You don't say, 'Give me a few minutes, my dream has just started.' You say, 'I'm coming from my house over there, you see. I walked for the last 20 minutes, I'm tired of walking, and I'm going to go to this place. Somebody's waiting for me there.' In the first moment of your dream, this could happen. Where is all that memory? Where is all that? Just a play of Consciousness. So do we know that this is not that moment?

And the thing is that these kind of insights are too troublesome for the mind, you see, because the mind is constantly trying to contextualize everything. It's trying to give you a narrative: this is the meaning of this, this is why you're here, this is what this means. And when we are no longer children, then we get very attached to those narratives and we feel very uncomfortable without them. We feel that I must know every moment what is happening, where am I going, what am I getting out of this. Like I told you, I have a friend who measures ROI of every interaction—that 'I spent five minutes with this one, what did I get out of this? Was it useful? I spent half an hour in this meeting, what was the...' So, what a way to lead a life. Because if I can't add something to my story, then it's not worthwhile.

But the true things, the most important things, we can never really add. Like the light in this room; you will never add to your story the light of presence here. You can never add to your story the fourth word of the sheer witnessing; it is not part of any story. The important things are always missed out because we are using kindergarten storybooks to define the story of our life, and we value those things so much. But those are very limiting. And that's why, as far as this aspect is concerned, plants and animals are better off than humans. Because you meet a dog, you meet a cat, she's fully present—at least from whatever I have seen, some of you can confirm—they're fully present, alive. They are seeing all the light, they are hearing every sound. They're not lost in their thoughts, missing life, you see.

Most of us never really live because you spend all the time up here in the dark dungeon of our head, missing out. So one time it came to say that if you spot one ray of light fully, then you are free. Then next day somebody got confused saying, 'But how can I isolate one ray from all of this that I'm seeing?' I said that even one ray you can see all... what I mean is even one ray, if you are really fully with that, then you're free. But there's no story in that for the 'me,' so that seems absent of value. The problem is in making our life a story; you miss out on all of life. Who really is alive? The opportunity to experience this frame by frame, this exquisite movie and beyond. The capacity to love the presence which is here, to meet His presence which is alive within us, to come to the recognition of that which witnesses even that moment to moment—what a life that is. And you're missing all of this life.

And by the way, all these things are not distinct, like 'now I'm noticing the world, now I'm with the presence, I'm noticing the love, now I'm in the presence.' You see, it's one in pure perception. Is there only the world of perception? Pure perception means independent of involvement with thinking. It can all come and go. Is that just the world? Somebody's perceiving it and somebody is aware of that perception. The only thing is it's not a 'somebody.' Do you have to struggle to find the witnessing when you are just in pure perception? Did the world vanish? No, it's full of life. God's presence is alive inside. So even from a seemingly worldly perspective, there's no advantage of being egoic.

So this is about pure perception and inquiry. And the answer is known, but just a little bit of elaboration maybe. When a person is alive, but we're blessed with the position of pure perception... the person is alive when we're in pure perception, but there's also the need for inquiry. Like, can we have faith that in just being in pure perception, inquiry will naturally move and there's no need to actually move towards anything?

Yes. Usually, in the human condition, we need inquiry, chanting, prayer to bring us to pure perception. Once you're in pure perception, the truth of what you are is apparent to you.

So maybe it's not pure perception, but there have been times of witnessing and simultaneously it feels like... because the question you ask is, 'Is pure perception the world is there, but also pure perception is there?' And sometimes there's movements happening and there's an allure... sorry, one second.

Okay, you have to try this another way. Remain in pure perception and just tell me what is happening there.

I see there's this sticky tendency...

Don't leave that. Don't leave. The mind is... the question is important to answer. Stay, stay, stay there. And then I'll notice if the words are coming from your heart. This is the beauty of it. And actually, it's so simple. But all the tools in Satsang, all the helpful pointers, are to help us stay like that. Here, if I speak on your behalf, the pure witness is apparent to you, the presence of being is apparent to you, and all the appearance of this world is apparent to you. No effort needed, not even inquiry, no tactics, no practice. Everything is to bring us to this and notice it starts.

So then it says, 'But you must give the mic.' Then the inquiry: who must give the mic? When it starts troubling you... ever since you introduced the prayer, it's been the thing that had the initial resistance to it has been playing around. And that same one is the one that's asking this question. So it's good that it's out of its hiding place, but it needs to be seen because it's alive. And yeah, I trust that in this unborn, in this no-man, is there a... so what? Is there a 'what about me?' It can come. It usually has no value and it's good to see through, like he's saying, good to see through all these tricks. The experience of fear or the label of fear.

Okay, start fresh now. Tell me what exactly is being perceived.

Like, I see... feel too exposed.

Wait, wait. So what exactly is being perceived? Don't explain it to me, just describe it to me.

Okay, it's a thought that is... this value. A thought is coming, what is saying 'danger.' Okay, is danger, danger, danger.

And anything else? Is there some actual emotion being felt here that is... there's a sensation like that, some shaky sensation? But you're right that sometimes even without sensation, no, the mind takes a chance and says 'fear, fear, fear.' And then you go looking, actually no fear. And other times there's just the sensation like that. We don't know what it is because every sensation is actually unique. But mostly this Maya works like there's a sensation and then there's a label from the mind that says, 'See, you are scared.' It's like the child saying... sorry, my child. So it's like the child who asked the parent, 'If there is no monster in the cupboard, then why am I scared?' What's the answer?

Because I believe there is one.

Suppose now I... you're the child. I've told you there's no monster in the cupboard. You believe me also, I have credibility with you. Still some fear comes and you ask the Father, 'But there's no monster, then why am I scared? Why is there fear in pure perception?'

No, maybe alive here, but Father, I to clarify then, isn't fear a thought more than something felt in the body?

It can be. For many it can be like the sensations are bigger; for many it can be that the belief in the thought is bigger.

Yeah, that's how it's perceived here. Like imminent danger and some... less and less now, but some value being ascribed to that. Like, this is the thought of danger, but you're not even tasting the fun emotion. That seems quite boring.

At least we must enjoy the panic. The mind is saying 'fear, fear,' we must say, 'Where? Where is it?' At least the taste is fun, at least for it to give you some evidence. Just slow down fully. Slow down, slow down. Then all these things become clearer. Notice moment to moment. Not like that, like that. Ram, you notice everything clearly. The mind rushes you to conclude on things. So are you saying that when you say there is fear, there's no actual fear? It's just a thought of fear. What is fear? Is it not an emotion like a sensation which... oh, see this is the difference. No, it's good, it's good to talk about that because I never actually saw it this way. What she's saying is it's just a thought which is saying 'danger, danger,' a thought that has ceased.

Ah, so that is what you call fear?

No, no, in this case. Okay, but you have tasted fear as an emotion, sensation, emotion. So was that a thought? No. So you tasted that. That is the emotion, that is the sensation. Pure perception. No, even in pure perception, a tiger pounces at you. In pure perception, even Shankara ran. That taste of the sensation, no time for thought, isn't it? It just tasted. That is fear. But when the mind comes and says, 'Oh, fear, I don't like that, I don't want it,' that's always post-facto, no? It's always late to the party. Yeah, talking about things which are long gone or using some lingering sensation to make its case. So that's not... no, it's just the thought of you. What word? Love? Or an emotion in... subtler than an emotion. Good. Could it be it a sad... if he said even love is just a thought.

Can you storify and be in pure perception? Yes, trash. Because a human condition is so limited, our attention is so small. The minute you get involved in the head, you miss out on life. You're missing the moment because our attention is so limited. Can you storify and remain in pure perception? See, once you get used to living like this, then stories sound very tame and lame. Dreams? Yeah, what about dreams? Okay, so is it possible at all that this conversation is happening in a dream? Yes. So is there not perception? Is there a way to conclude conclusively that this is not a dream? That is why in Vedanta and in reality, there is no actual difference between the dreams and the waking state.

I guess maybe the question is coming from the last time I came and I didn't understand your version of the mind, but then I... which is different from my version of the mind, right? Which is your question to me. And then I went to sleep and your version of the mind came out in full force with fear here, because I was in a car accident a few weeks ago and anyway, so all of that just came back in a way that I haven't experienced the mind before. Because generally I'm an intuitive person, so I've never experienced that harsh mind and so I didn't know what to do with it when I woke up.

Yes. So what to do with it is to just allow it to come and go. When we don't notice that it is the mind, when it seems like it is representing a 'me,' then those moments don't have to worry about because they are written off. But when it is clear that you can be with the head or you can be intuitive, then allow the head to come and go. You remain intuitive.

So in the dream it wasn't clear that it was the head. It's when I woke up that...

My playground is only this waking state. For the dream state, there will be a dream Guru that will come. One child said to me many years back, he said, 'Father, because of being in Satsang, I'm all sorted in the waking state. It's all sorted. But what happens is the dream state still troubles me.' So I said, 'No, no, my jurisdiction is only this, but there will be another version that comes.' I mean, when you are in thought, you see, when something gone to your thought, you see that your attention... no, I want to hear the... thought, thought, and you down... and you have a thought. Does in... I'm trying to see in pure perception, the attention doesn't move so much. Attention doesn't move so much. It doesn't move back and forth between...

The dream state still troubles me, so I said, 'No, no, my jurisdiction is only this.' But there will be another version that comes. I mean, when you are in thought, you see, when something goes to your thought, you see that your attention... when, no, I want to hear the pure thought, thought, and you down... and you have a thought. Does... in... I'm trying to see in pure perception, the attention doesn't move so much. It doesn't move back and forth between your head and your... this just kind of feels more steady and it's more universal. It's broader. But it's not how we are living. Like, I have memory of how I used to be, and a few moments happen here now also, but it's just like this, like this, like this, like this, like this, like this. It's all over the place. It seems like that. It's like one moment you're looking at a tree, the next moment we are thinking something about work, the next moment... it's just a very weird experience overall. The human condition, isn't it? We are sitting in this room one moment, and the next moment we are wandering off somewhere.

Mad monkey drunk, bitten by a scorpion. Okay, good thing you're saying that in her second satsang; in the first satsang, she was not having it. Mad monkey drunk, who was bitten by a scorpion—that is the nature of the mind. So that could be another tool. I wonder, we can use it like that. When the heart guides you, it doesn't interrupt pure perception. Can you play with this a bit? This is the first time it's come in this mouth. Being is apparent, yes. It's true that in pure perception also, your being is apparent. Yes, like, is the world's perception being interrupted or no? For in that few seconds back, the world's perception was being interrupted, isn't it? Because you were just like thinking over something, so the world sort of becomes diffused. It becomes... so neither are we fully in the head, nor are we fully in the world. It becomes all scattered like that. Yes, it happens like... try to think and notice at the same time. Like, notice the hand and think. It starts to defocus. It starts to be... because attention is so tiny. To even do these primitive tasks, we have to like... like CPU load balancing. To run ten tasks, you have to allocate rational resources. The attention is so limited, as opposed to awareness, which is unlimited, untouched.

For it's like the fresh, fresh game. We haven't played it for so long. A fun one. Come here, come. Freshers, all of you know this game? Anyone wandering off in their heads? No. The idea is to just be here. So then, if I would just keep looking at everyone, if I notice somebody is just wandering off, no, no, come back, come back, come back, come back. But then I stopped playing it because some of you became very good at acting. I couldn't really tell. I just... 'Close your eyes.' No, that is the rule. You can't close your eyes. You can't meditate. Nothing. Be awake. Whatever we think we are solving or resolving or coming to an answer about, it's not worth what you're missing in the moment. Everybody acting really well now. You mentioned about this, ask the question, let's see.

I won't be able to put the question, that is my issue. My answer can be 'Who wants to know?' always. Okay, so yeah, I mean, you have mentioned like there are... there is this thought, then you have attention and belief. When you say that, I mean, mind is a monkey, so it's like attention is going from thought to thought, or is it a belief from thought to thought?

It's a belief from thought to thought. You're believing a thought, then next moment you're believing a thought. That is what nature of how it produces these thoughts. It's always jumping from topic to topic. Not stable, not contemplative really. It pretends to be intellectual but doesn't have patience, you see. So that to look at the nature of what it produces itself is to call it the monkey mind.

Yes, if you believe these thoughts, then your life becomes full of confusion and suffering. Right, right. And this producing will never, never stop. It will be like this always, right? I mean, for you also, is it like that, that thoughts are just randomly getting produced?

Well, should I say or not? I would say that the number is probably reduced. Okay, the idea is not to worry about that, whether it is one a minute or a hundred a minute. We just have to let go, return. Not play this game before we play. No, when we will play it like with all the rules and everything... I know what he's trying. He's just like, 'But I keep thinking, let's see if he notices.' It's quite easy, no? Actually, you just have to live like that. Singing, singing is starting. Good, good. Is it a bhajan? Good is good.

When you said, no, like, what makes us... why would we want to leave what we're finding? Why? I said that in the beginning. You were saying, why would we want to leave? Like, if God was here, and I've noticed that when I start off with that intention to stay, after rajas, all of that, it's so strange. Anger can take me away from what is, what is... what can feel good. What is tempting about anger? I'm not getting...

Yes, it's a feeling of being right about something. And that... it can be, in fact, it is very natural for the mind to come up with that angry thing. That elevator scene from Revolver: 'Think you can do without me? Me, me, me, me, me.' It doesn't feel pleasant. Why is it tempting? Just the right thing, feeling right. Well, the good that you said you were very attracted to are not always pleasant.

No, no, I'm telling... so like, sattva's very nature is naturally pleasing. It's not exciting or pleasant. So why do we go to rajas, tamas? There's some pleasure at least there, like... sure, eventually. Have you noticed how you are when you're angry?

Yeah, that's anger and like that. But you feel very right. You feel very good, you know, elevated for a few moments. What to do with that? And then the... what is it called after the high? Hangover. Hangdowner. Downer, exactly. What to do about that?

What to do about it? Remain in pure perception. Don't leave.

So is any anger good? Is any anger good?

If it comes from God. Everything that... the only way to determine good is whether it comes from God. And then that propels you forward in its own way, whatever way. Like, we cannot really fathom the mind of God. That's why trust is needed, because if everything was rational, then we wouldn't need faith, we wouldn't need trust.

So I... this might not be a fair question, so I'm not sure, but I do feel like as we talk about the spiritual traditions here and all over the world, where are the women that are sharing this? And I feel anger that I'm not hearing from women, and I don't know what to do about that. And that's an anger that has been sitting right in front of you.

She's probably got more students than me, so she can hear her then. Anandi is very read, Mooji is very read. I need list, probably, right? We need more photos. Ammachi is very read. Quite a few women. Ganga Ji. Let's look at the chat question.

Father, I still don't know the importance of the living presence of God fully. If Krishna was here in person, I still feel after a while I may still not fully make him the everything of my life. There is a striving to make it the most important. Whenever I remember it, I want to make God the only reason for this life.

That's why the provocation, the invitation to rely on your heart, your insights, your faith in God's reality. Because I realize that Maya can seem so seductive, so compulsive, that can seem real. Pure perception is so alive, life living pristine as it is, uncontaminated by the 'me' in this beautiful God's world. Love you, love you. Gangama, Ammachi, yes, Mira, Sri Aurobindo, Eric... all the answers are coming on chat also.

You've referred to your hot seat experience with Guruji a few times, but I've never heard what actually happened. I don't mean to make you repeat, but is it on YouTube somewhere?

That is, yes, it is. What happened is there, yes. Yeah, I'll send it. The kids' version of this story is that everyone else goes properly, asks the question, listens to the answer, and does everything gracefully. 'Why you had to do all that?' That is the child, my children's version of what happened on the hot seat. They were young, and then when Guruji was here, we showed him. Then the kids were there, so yeah.

You mentioned before that we used to grapple with trying to understand what is meant by being. Then once while traveling in an auto, it just... so that happened before going on the hot seat?

Yeah, maybe two years or so before. Okay, so yes, the being became apparent sometime before I realized that the Absolute reality is beyond even that. In those two years, were you able to stay with the being? No, just understand it. No, just... it was like an experience. So you have an experience, a spiritual experience, you notice that being is there. And in the auto, I was like, 'It's so simple, it's always here. How did I miss this?' It felt like that. And then most of those years went in complete neglect of it. That's why I keep saying that we must honor that, stay with that.

I know there's no easy and hard way, it's a relative term, but what is the way that one can be in that state? When I say state, right, not of wanting, be in that state of that beingness through a quality, certain qualities that we can practice or basically make it part of our life? Not practice—practice is an outward thing—but if you can make it part of our life, just, you know, it becomes easier. Because see, most of the times what takes away from that being is resistance to what is there. That's something that I've observed. So sometimes resistance, you know, it definitely does decrease, but sometimes when the situations are like really crazy around you, you tend to resist. That's coming out of the conditioning. So how do we take that up?

So, I rarely do this, but there's a new highlight video that's just been posted from the previous satsang where this exact answer has been given. So if you don't find it, then I can send it to you, or if you send me your number, we can have that sent across. And anyway, to basically reduce the resistance at times, most of the... that's what it is. It encompasses that aspect, because the only thing in the way really is the mental resistance.