You Have Never Left the Destination - 31st July 2020

I know how not to stay as the silence.

This is good. This is good in a way. So how do you not stay as the silence?

Going with the mind. When the mind says, "Yeah, you know what, let's do it later" or something, some excuses or something, and then yeah, it's... or things like, "You know, maybe I'm not ready right now, maybe it's not the time right now," you know? And yeah, something goes like, "Yeah, maybe it's true." Yeah, you know, it's going with this chatting.

And when you say, "I go with them" or "I go with the thoughts" or "I go with the mind," what do you mean by "go with"? Is like, just even though I know that... let's think about it much more. Let's see if we can try to do a practical example. Yes, coming. You try to boost that thought? You try to go with it? How will you... just see the next thought. Just board that. Just saying, "Yes, it's true." This feeling that it's coming with the thought, it's... yeah, I'm feeling it. Yes, it's true. Yeah, I don't know how to say it.

Good, yeah, you're doing very well. So the thought comes. The only way we can say that the thought comes is because attention is on it. For anything to come, for anything to be perceived, we have to have that which we call attention. And we notice with thoughts that they are all very fleeting, you see? So attention does not permanently remain on any thought. In fact, it doesn't even remain for a long time. It just comes and it just goes. If you try to hold on to a thought, you're not able to, actually, you see? That's why so many people have so much trouble with chanting a mantra or something like that. So thoughts in themselves are quite fleeting, and attention is not something that we have to worry about because naturally they just come and go. You don't have to worry about even withdrawing your attention from them.

So like you said, when you say, "I go with my thoughts," what we are saying is that I believe, or I as consciousness have the power to take what this construct of my own consciousness is representing as reality to me as true. Slowly, yes, with a lot of words. Look at it.

Yes, but yeah, I understand.

Good, good. So it is proposing to you that it has some truth for you, yes? And you as consciousness accept that version of the truth and say, "Yes, this is how it actually is." Isn't that what belief is or identification is?

Yes.

You see, now the thing is—and we've all tried this and that's why in a way we're in satsang—we've tried going with these constructs, with these belief systems, and we have realized that they only end up one way, that is suffering, isn't it? We realized that we tried to follow all of these thoughts and they only create a picture of myself which I don't find to be fundamentally true, you see? I only find it related to the body or related to some idea about the body that I have about myself. And anytime I pick up this limitation, this constriction that this is what I take myself to be, because that construct is so small, you see, it always ends up getting broken down. You see, something always seems to attack it or, in one way or the other, it seems to get broken down. No matter how much we've tried to retain our identity or our belief system, it has not been a constant. Wouldn't you agree so far?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Now the thing is that the mind is proposing to us that the version that it has is better than the version that you have or you are without it. It is proposing a version to you of yourself, of the world, whatever you call it—it's all consciousness, you see. It's proposing a version which is saying that, "Ah, if you take up this to be the true construct of what is, then it is better than what naturally is," you see? And this is a very, very important point and I'm happy to repeat it a few times if you like. You see, just naturally empty, empty, empty. No? What is it? Just what is, you see? So everything is fine, you see. But now it is saying, "If only my partner was not like this," or "I had more money in the bank," or "The health of the body was better," or "If I was enlightened." Any of these—these are the main proposals, you know, one way or the other, you see. It says, "If only this was what is, then it would be better than what is." You see? With me?

Yes.

So this is what we have to see. We go with this proposition from the seller, from the salesman called the mind, and we say, "Yes, if I buy into your idea of what is, it is better than the natural business or the natural what is already."

Yes. Another thing that I want to expose is just that the mind is always creating an image of the silence of being, of being... I don't know how to... it's just creating a kind of... and that is believed to, yeah, somehow.

Yeah, and when you first said something about staying in the silence, it will create an image of having to stick as the silence or stay in the silence or stay as awareness, which is all nonsense actually, you see? Yes, because to stay as awareness is nonsense because it is simpler than sitting where you're already sitting. Nothing that you can do that will take you away from yourself, you see? You are the Self.

There is this sense of trying to do, to do it, yes.

And that is all nonsense, right? So because you cannot do the freedom. You cannot even come to it in that way. It is just a recognition of what naturally is. That's why Bhagwan very often used to repeat that this freedom, this knowledge, Atma Gyan, is not an attainment. It is not something that you will get or you will achieve. It is just a removal of the ignorance, you see? Yes, this is the good news which he also gave us, that that removal of the ignorance is just naturally how it is right now, you see? So the absence of mental conditioning is also not a state that you will have to come to. It is where you start from, till the mind tells you that there is a problem that you have to solve, that there is something that you have to fix, you see? So if you are solving it, you are going in the wrong direction. If you are fixing something, you are going in the wrong direction.

The fact that I know it, I know it very well. But yeah, I just... what is the message that the mind is able to now convey to you which seems to get your belief often? Are you sure you have this problem that you seem to have? Sorry, are you certain of the reality of the problem itself?

Of course not. Not certain. But the problem seems to be that the "I" entity that says, "Yeah, I know, I see, I can understand, I've been here before and I know how to deal with it," and you know, all this...

But the "I" entity doesn't actually have any existence. No, it's not really an entity. It is just a proposal. It is if something proposes to you that you are a turtle. Then it says, "Oh, if the turtle had a better shell, then it would be happier in life." And then Bhagwan said, "Ask yourself who you are." You see that there is no such turtle. Why am I looking for a shell? And that includes, by the way, it is not just worldly possessions; it also includes freedom. Who are we looking for freedom for? Who must remain as the Self?

Just... yeah, thank you.

That which is on the seeming journey, you see, doesn't exist. So the culmination of this so-called journey is not the fulfillment of the desire of that individual seeker. It is just letting go of that identity. Letting go of that identity. And how to let go of that identity? You already have. You don't have to believe this. It is too simple. If you didn't have to fix anything, if no matter where your attention went, you see, you could never leave yourself, then now, the one that is coming to this discovery, where is that one? Where is the one that is coming to this discovery? What is the location of that one? Is it identity as you called it, or no? That's a simple one though. Where is that one? Let's see. Let's see the answer to this one. Where is the one that is coming to this discovery that it is not limited by the mind, it is not limited by any sensation, perception?

Yeah, okay, but...

And good, so look for that one. Where is the one that is even perceiving the looking? I have to say that after the "who" question, the "where" question is one of my favorites also. Especially useful because so many of us in Advaita and in our lineage have got so jaded with the "who" question. Many are just like, "Who am I? Who am I? Who am I? I am just this awareness," you see? It's become more robotic in some way. So the "where" question sometimes takes you off that robotic sort of inquiry. Because many times we may claim that there is an entity sitting inside this body who is coming to the discovery that it is awareness, or even the idea that the body itself is discovering that it is not the body but it is awareness, isn't it? These are the notions from the mind which will come, that "I, the body, discovered that I am not the body, I am awareness." Where are you right now? What is your location?

You can say here and now.

Where actually?

Yes, yes. How can you be nowhere? Is it possible?

And as we look into this question, we realize that space itself is just a notion. The spatial idea is just an idea. It has no tangible reality, as in it is purely a notional construct. Where is the space of space? And how is it coming? How is it perceived by me? Inner means inner what? Inside what? See, this is what I'm saying. I know it's popular. So we have the idea of inside and outside, but inside what?

Yes.

So if there is no inside, can there be an outside? Don't intellectualize it. It is the being, you see? Now in the being, what is outside the being? This voice, this image—is it inside the being or outside the being? It's also inside. So inside is the term... it's logical only if there's an outside. So the intellect will play with these opposites, you see, inside and outside. And then what happens is if you hear it intellectually, then what we'll try and do is we will try to include everything inside us, you see? So we're trying to do that which already is, which then becomes impossible, you see? How can you do that which already is? We pick up this, we try to do it intellectually. I know we may have gone far from the question. So, "I have to stay as the Self" or "I have to be fine with going outside the Self" or "I have to balance the two." These are the three popular notions, isn't it? So if you let go of all three of them, what is left?

Okay, you can say something more.

Nothing much to say right now. Yeah, just forget to not believe anything that the mind says. Sometimes we have to forget not just the problems but also the solutions, because today's solutions are tomorrow's problems. Keep saying that whatever you hear, if it becomes a spiritual concept for you, that will become your new prison. So we may have heard in satsang—I may have said it thousands of times also—that you just remain as the Self, you see? Now, that may be a solution provisionally during that time of the majority of the spiritual journey, but after a point, the idea to remain as the Self itself is the prison. How can you not remain as yourself?

Trying to remain as the Self, exactly, exactly. Very good.

I keep saying that whatever you hear, if it becomes a spiritual concept for you, that will become your new prison. So we may have heard in satsang—I may have said it thousands of times also—that you just remain as the Self. You see, now that may be a solution provisionally during that time of the majority of the spiritual journey, but after a point, the idea to remain as the Self itself is the prison. How can you not remain as yourself?

Trying to remain as the Self.

Exactly, exactly. Very good. That's what I'm saying, you see, because the trying itself is not remaining. The trouble is what? The trouble is that there is no position to take, and we have been so used to being fed conditions, you see, positions. This is the problem. You see, then you go to a teacher or master who will say, 'Okay, now this is the wrong position you have. I'll tell you the new position. Please change your stance, come to this one.' You see, now in satsang like this, what happens is that whatever position you may have, you see, it is discarded, but no new position is offered, including the position of no position. Even that is not offered. You see, it is then that we leave this mental playground, this intellectual playground, and we let go. You see, and the Zen masters were very good with this; they would just snap you out of your intellect. And they would say—I don't know, I'm not sure whether I ever heard this, but they would say something like—when you go up and down at the same time, then you are free. And what happens is that as you allow yourself to let go of this limiting condition called the mind, you see, the mind will start to scream and say, 'But without me you are lost! Without me you are lost!' Or it will claim some false discovery or false freedom, trying to build a spiritual ego or something like this. Yes, some stance, something or the other, so that it can seem like it is stable. But actually, it is the most unstable. The absence of all positions is the most stable position.

Yeah, another thing that happens is... okay, yeah. It's the thought that, and the believer in the thought that says, 'The now... okay, now just stay here. No, just stay, just...'

And where would you stay if you did not have this advice from the mind? So the representation that it is presenting to you, that 'now you just stay here'—this 'you' that must stay here, which one is it talking about? The entire phenomenal manifest universe? Who is it saying must stay here? You see, so you have a discovery that you're beyond time and space, and all of you could say—you don't have to rush to these words—you could say all of this appearance of time and space is within me. You see, and very quickly the mind will say, 'Okay, good, good, that's very good. Now all you have to do is just stay here.' You see, but in that instruction, that seeming friendly guidance, again, are you now beyond time and space still? No, you've taken yourself again to be just this body-mind. Yes. Hmm. Very good, very good. So just like this, without picking up any stance, any position, any mask, in your naked originality. Okay, I'm going to catch up with some of the other questions. Oh, there's a long one. Okay, I'm going to read out this one.

One concept which seems likely, like generally accepted by people at the time Mahabharata happened, was separation between soul and body and concept of transmigration of soul to a new body upon death. Krishna picks this topic so casually without any justification or verification of the concept in Chapter 2. Intellectually and intuitively I know that I am different from body and mind, but experientially for mind/intellect, is it possible to experience this? I don't know how it could be done.

Okay, so let's pause here because then I'll forget the first part of the question. Experientially, in your experience right now, without having to change the content of your experience in any way, nobody is having the experience that they are the body-mind. We may be just labeling that experience as if it is that 'I am the body-mind,' but what you will naturally notice is that these sensations that we call the body, these thought constructs that we call the mind, are just happening within my being, like he was saying, you see. And there is no way in which these sensations actually limit this being. It is these sensations which are experienced within my being; I am not experienced within these sensations. You see, otherwise what would happen is that we could say that on one side of this sensation I am, you see, but on the other side of that same sensation I am not. Then that sensation would contain my being. But what is your experience? Your experience is that it is you, you see, that space in which even space appears. You are that space in which all of this perception, all of this play of light and sound, all of these sensations are being perceived. Even this voice, where is it? Now you may say, if you give it to your mind, you may say it is another body that is speaking this and another body is receiving this, but that is not your experience. You experience this voice within yourself, within your consciousness, within your being. You see, so this in a way is a very good example of that which is already so, but we are struggling to make it so. You see, and I can tell you there is no problem bigger than trying to solve a non-existent problem. You see, there is no problem bigger than trying to solve a non-existent problem.

So your experience of yourself, your pure perception of yourself—and I'll just come explain that in a minute—there is nothing missing in your pure perception of yourself. You see, it is only the labeling, the separation using the intellect, using the mind, you see, to say 'this is me, this is other, this is good, this is bad.' This is where all this idea of duality starts. So go with your pure perception without labeling and you will see that all the insights that are being shared, you see, are just different versions of the same insight, and no version can actually contain the insight completely. That's why within Advaita Vedanta itself, like you said this about Krishna speaking in Chapter 2, you see, but there are a hundred different ways of interpreting that. That's why we have a shelf full of all the commentaries and you have the Shuddhadwaitins, the Vishishtadwaitin, the Kevala, the Abheda, the Bheda, all of them looking at the same Chapter 2, which is an amazing one, but looking at the same chapter but interpreting the words of the Lord in different ways. You see, so it is never something that we will be able to express properly as if we can express it conceptually. You see, we can never do that. It is just pure insight. And what a master then does is, based on the conditioning of the disciple, the words may appear so that it can dissolve that particular conditioning. You see, but the truth is ineffable, the truth is inexpressible.

Okay, so let's continue with your question: 'I don't know how it could be done. I have done past life regression sessions also and have seen few past lives, but when the experience was happening or when I recalled after having experienced it, I didn't find any different from watching a dream or recalling a memory. Yes, the past life regression session to some extent because I could see few events of past lives and immediately insight came to my intellect/mind that we have gone through such events many times in the past. Everything changes, so let it happen. But there is always an element of doubt of actuality of this.' You see, now the thing is that there where there can be doubt and there can be certainty, just don't play in that playground. You see, because like to quote again Krishna in the Gita, he said subtler than the intellect is the Self. You see, so there where we can have a doubt, where we can have conceptual clarity—like we have the perfect framework of concepts, you see: 'I am the Nirguna Brahman on top of which the Saguna Brahman comes and then the play of Maya starts'—you see, and you create the perfect conceptual framework which is actually the design of it, to shake you out of our limited notions of what this reality is. But we create a new construct and we start to then debate others who may say, 'No, no, first there's the birth of a Jivatma, then the Jivatma becomes a little separate but not really separate from the Paramatma, and then this plays to get back to the Paramatma.' We can have these debates, and these debates have gone on for many, many thousand years.

But there is something that the teachers, the gurus, have pointed us to, you see, which is that which is intuitive insight beyond intellectual constructs of what this is, into a heart knowing, a deeper clarity. And that is why we share satsang, so we can rid each other of all of these conditions and come to that which is empty of any condition, empty of any limitation. So that was like the preamble to something which I really wanted to say more importantly than everything else I just said, which is that your experience of your true Self, the unchanging Self, you see, this experience is not going to be something that is like any other experience. Because with every other experience you can have a tangible quality that you can say, 'This is the experience because I perceived red color' or 'I perceived a particular sound' or 'I perceived some beautiful white light' or something like that. But your experience of yourself is beyond any phenomenon. And none of you has not had it. All of us have had it, whether we are in satsang or not. But because to the mind it is nothing, it can convince you that you haven't had it.

I can prove to you in a moment that all of you had it. You are aware of the perception of this hand. That's it. So simply you say, 'It is I that is aware.' Did you have a personal experience of this 'I' awareness? What is the color of it, shape of it, size of it? And yet it is very natural, unless you become very spiritually advanced—and I'm not saying that is a compliment—it is very natural to see, 'It is I that is aware.' Okay, somebody comes who's here to deliver a package. Okay, suppose they're not even in satsang and never come to satsang, and ask them, 'Hey brother, are you perceiving this body in front of you?' You see, 'Of course, what are you saying?' You see, 'Are you sure you are aware of this perception?' 'Yes, I am aware. Will you take this package or not?' We will see this, you see. And yet without having any spiritual concept, they can confirm this, that 'I' is aware. You see, there is no separation or distinction between 'I', the real 'I', and awareness. So 'I' removes the 'I' and yet remains the 'I', as Bhagavan said. So what is the 'I' that is removed? It is the condition, the limited, the made-up entity which is let go of, but you remain as you are. You see?

So I am telling you this because I want you to go beyond looking or chasing experience, you see, because this non-experience experience is your very nature. Your self-awareness, your self-knowledge is your very nature. It is not even something that you have; it is what you are. So come to this intuitive insight and don't allow the mind to convince you, 'What is the point of that? You see, I didn't really get anything.' You in a way have got that which is beyond this universe, beyond all the limitations of the physical laws of this phenomenal appearance. It is your most pristine discovery, that which you already always had. In fact, you were, you are. And the other trouble is that don't expect it to do something for you. Don't expect it to make you enlightened, don't expect it to make you free, don't expect it to make you a satsang teacher, don't expect it to give you some talent, some siddhis, because this 'you' is what you are getting freedom from. So don't burden your self-discovery with an expectation of what it must do for me. This is the most common trick from the mind, it's the trump card from the mind: 'Ah, you got it? No? Okay, okay, prove it. How did your life change? Where is the constant bliss? Where are your devotees? You still have problems at work.' It will use all of these things as evidence—problems in relationship, problem at work, and...

It is to give you some talent, some siddhis, because this 'you' is what you are getting freedom from. So don't burden your self-discovery with an expectation of what it must do for me. This is the most common trick from the mind; it is the trump card from the mind. 'Ah, you got it, no? Okay, okay, prove it. How did your life change? Where is the constant bliss? Where are your devotees? You still have problems at work.' It will use all of these things as evidence—problems in relationship, problems at work—and say, 'See, you are not free.' And you believe all of these circumstantial evidences and say, 'Yes, there must really be a problem,' you see. But the self-recognition, the self-discovery, had nothing to do with the animated play of this body-mind.

Who do you want freedom for? Is it just a shortcut? You've tried all worldly things—I'm not just speaking to the questioner, of course, I'm speaking generally now—you tried everything worldly and it did not help you succeed as a person, and now you are looking for spirituality to help you succeed as a person, to make you a happy person, to make you a person that is content. That is not what spirituality is for, at least not this type of spirituality, you see. Of course, I'm not saying there's an opposition to any of that happening; I'm just saying that if we put that as the primary and truth is secondary—the truth must be in service to making me happy, truth must be in service to making my body healthy, truth must be in service to me finding my perfect so-called soulmate—then it is actually looking for that which is beyond this material realm just so that we can get some material benefit out of it.

And although it may seem like for most of us that was the primary inclination to come to satsang, but we can't just hold on to that, isn't it? There comes a point where we realize that something here is broader, is more universal than that, and we have to let go of this idea of 'what's in it for me' because that's how we've suffered so much in the world, going into everything with this maha mantra of 'what's in it for me.' And we continue to do that; we come to satsang also with this idea of 'what's in it for me.' But satsang is to rid you of this 'me,' not to give something to this 'me,' you see. Okay, thank you. Thank you, my dear, for the question.

The next one says: 'The desire to meditate is falling away day by day, Father, and it is seen that doing meditation as the mind was also too much of an effort.' Empty, open is the point of meditation. And whatever it takes to get you to that openness, through that emptiness, is the way, is the path, you see. For some, the path can just be like this; that's the path. For some, not even that is needed. For some, maybe some chanting, some method, following the breath, that could be needed. But once you are open and empty, you see, then you don't have to trouble yourself with this or that because that is the whole fruit, you see. That is the fruit. So the Master could say, for example, that he doesn't meditate, or he could say, or she could say, that they are in constant meditation. It is the same thing.

Then the next one says: 'Father, it seems letting go is the difficult thing.' Yes, it can seem like it is difficult. That's why we have so many satsangs. I'll quickly just catch up with the chat, then there are some requests to come up; I'll take those in a minute. Then the next one says: 'The sound of the bird in the background is like the voice of the mind in the wilderness with no ground to stand on or to take root in.' Beautiful, beautiful. 'Father, nearly every book I have read on Indian philosophy starts with the Charvaka philosophy and ends with Advaita Vedanta.' Good, good.

Then the next one says: 'Father, I can't find anything left here. I found that attraction for the personal state has dropped by your grace. I am finished with the past, future projections, dreams; they have played enough in the last month and drained themselves. I just realized that all was only in the mind, but they were playing as a tool which inspired me for searching for the truth. This is where I am stuck now. May you please help me?' Now, I missed the part where you were stuck. Yeah, where are you stuck now? Let's see. Oh, where's the one who's stuck?

Thank you for inviting me. It's not just so much stuckness, but I couldn't find another word. It's just like this emptiness in which I'm not used to so much, because there was always like this course because of the things that I mentioned. Now all has dropped, but also the searching—like this kind of searching also not so much here. So I don't know, that's why I want to share it with you. Is it okay or not? I don't know what's happening.

What's happening is—thank you—is it like, 'I don't know what to do with myself anymore,' you know? Because I've been so used to having this spiritual problem and I have to solve it. Like Indian children, no? Like when we went to school and we finished our exams, for a few days we were just like, 'What are we supposed to do now?' You see, because you get so used to coming home and studying, and you know, everything was around this trying to create a routine of when to study and how to study. And then the exams were over and then you just feel like, 'Oh, but this is too empty. How am I supposed to spend my time?' Is that what you mean by emptiness? There could be another idea of emptiness which is like a perceivable emptiness, and this is a tip for all of you: that if you have some idea of the Self or awareness of some empty space or something like that, just forget about it. It's not that. So let's hear more from you. This should be an easier way to find.

Yeah, okay. The emptiness that I was talking about, the first one, I know it's not so important. It's just as you said, just for now I experienced this, but I was just so much used to, you know, this feeling of love, this feeling of inspiration for the truth. So that's why I just wanted to share this, but I feel that it's just okay. But yeah, it's fine.

It's fine. Are you labeling the absence of some perception as emptiness? Is that what you're saying? I'm going to allow participants to unmute themselves. You can unmute yourself whenever you're ready. May you please say it again?

Yes. Are you seeing the absence of a particular perception like a feeling of love or a feeling of something else? Is that what you mean by emptiness? Yes, emptiness means not—there is no urge, maybe no forcing, running like this.

Then it is the first one: 'exam over' emptiness. Wobble for a bit because we got so used to this spiritual chasing, being a spiritual seeker, you see, and then chasing experiences, wanting to drown in bliss or love or something like that. When we come to some just simplicity, you see, we come to this openness, and to the mind it can seem very almost boring, almost like, 'Okay, so then what? Now what? Now what?' But this is just some initial wobbliness which will go very naturally.

I don't know, I don't have much to say, but there is an urge also here to dive deep, you know, dive deeper.

I don't know, you know, where all diving and coming back out of the water, all of that is gone. And you have to take yourself to be objective in some way for any of that to happen, isn't it? Like you have to have at least some shape, even if it is a beautiful spiritual shape, to be able to dive. But the thing is, we sometimes do the shape-making because we want beautiful experience, but the same shape is what gets shaken up also tomorrow, you see. The same sufferer in that shape. So don't form any shape. The universe is diving inside you; you don't have to dive anywhere.

Yes, you know, there's just so much love, but it's very silent love, not excited, excited love.

So it's the norm. It's the non-troublesome love. And yet, and yet, I'm not saying that the excited love cannot emerge. Everything can emerge from this, you see. Everything can come up and everything can go, but we are not attached to anything that comes and goes, you see. That universe reminded me—Ashtavakra said you are that in which the arcs of the universe, they come and go, you see. You are that boundless ocean in which the arcs of the universe, they come and go. Can you see how far we've come with our mind, what we have taken ourselves to be? We are that in which universes are born and universes go back to sleep, you see. But we have taken ourselves to be this tiny little object. And now as you are letting go of this identification, you will experience this spaciousness, this stillness, but don't get attached even to that because all these states can come and go, and yet you remain the pure witnessing, the pure awareness.

And I feel like I told you this once before: don't worry, the universe is not messing up your dish; it's cooking it perfectly. Whatever has to show up, it'll come with the right ingredients, the right amount of salt, the right amount of sugar. Everything is being cooked very well. For a long time, you can feel like the spiritual seeker is one of the ingredients that is getting cooked, but you realize that you were never that. You are that for which all this play, all this Leela, has been put together. I don't want to say 'stand your ground,' you see, because even that will become a position. Just open and empty; it's fine. This is the most sweetest problem: the problem you have when you have no problem, you see. This is the 'no problem' problem. 'I'm not stuck and that's why I'm stuck. I can't find anything, any place where I'm stuck. Help me, Father, I'm so stuck.' But I have a sense of this because we got so used to trying to resolve, trying to fix, you see. And now, and now there's nothing to do, nothing to fix. Very good, very good. Thank you. Thank you. Please have some water; it is good advice. Thank you, my dear.

Ah, one says: 'The mind either tries to complicate the Self as immense and unreachable or trivializes it as nothing and irrelevant.' Yes, very good. Yes, it is both and neither. Hmm, okay, let's see. There's a long one. Okay, one says: 'Dear Father, the answers for the below have come but want to expose and lay them down at your feet. This has been a time of immense churning and growth for me. Did a weekend meditation retreat with Rupert and it was intense. However, a lot of very bad and fearful thought patterns started coming up. Bad thoughts about God, saints, thoughts of harming oneself and others, invoking bad energies, wishing bad for others. Now this is full opposite to my nature. Was little scared but was observing. There was an urge to put them into action and overcome these thoughts, but realized that is not the way. Putting them into action can only aggravate. Someone told me that I might have entities attached, etc., but I realized that this is a lower level of seeing and that I just need to treat them as thoughts and not pay attention to them at all. There might be some thoughts and energies picked up from others or what we saw, etc., but the only entity there is is consciousness.' Okay, this is good. This is good.

Yes, better than getting involved in figuring out, 'Is this good energy? Is this bad energy? Is this something that is taking over? Is this something just light? What do I need to do to solve this?' No, just leave it aside. Like I keep reminding all of you, Master Bankei said all things, all things are perfectly resolved in the unborn. He did not say some things; he does not say spiritual things. He said all things are perfectly resolved in the unborn, you see. And this unborn is nothing but your notionless existence. You're open and empty. Very good. So better to let go and let your being, let consciousness, take care of everything as it is.

Then one says: 'Emptiness for me is nothingness, freedom. It is so free of all this weight.' Yes, yes, very good. Empty of all notions, including the idea of empty. One says: 'Father, I heard about direct path teachers, but it is only when I listen to you that I came to know about directest path.' Thank you, very sweet of you. Thank you. And says: 'The problem is I can't find the problem.' Yes.

And empty, very good. So better to let go and let your being, let consciousness take care of everything as it is. Then one says, 'Emptiness for me is nothingness, freedom. It is so free of all this weight.' Yes, yes, very good. Empty of all notions, including the idea of empty. One says, 'Father, I heard about direct path teachers, but it is only when I listen to you that I came to know about directest path. Thank you.' Very sweet of you, thank you. And says, 'The problem is I can't find the problem.' Yes.

Then one says, 'Father, isn't it better to do satwik things and move from satwik ego to oneself in the progressive path? What is the truth about the devil, etc., and why do some people worship him? Why does human mind get attracted to the sexual side of such things? Is it due to the intensity? What should one do and not do so as to not go down? Please bless. I also notice the curiosity about the darker side, fascination for the darker side of sexuality, etc. Notice a tendency to go through these things and have overcome them, but I realize the solution is just to observe. Might be karma, some many past lives as a king, aghori.'

Okay, I'm just going to say that you boarded the guru train. Now you don't have to worry about anything because if you get caught up in the intricacies of this Maya, then there are layers upon layers upon layers that you can keep peeling. It is like a never-ending onion. You can keep peeling one after the other, but the manifest will not run out of the manifest, you see. It will keep presenting something, something, something, something. So every aspect of this manifest universe is full of so much intricacy, and you can play with it as fun. But the minute you try to give yourself a position about it, you make something relevant for your reality or for your truth or for your freedom, it's only going to become a prison. And like the Chakravyuha example in the Mahabharat, you will know how to enter this prison, you will enter this maze, and very soon you'll find yourself unable to escape because it'll seem like you're caught up with concepts from all sides and you'll be convinced you have this problem or that problem which you need to fix.

So it's just good you're in Satsang. Don't bother with any of this. And by the way, I'm talking about the curiosity that you mentioned about the dark energies and things like that. I'm not speaking just about sexuality, because sexuality in itself is neither special nor shameful. It is just what it is. It is part of the human play and we don't need to judge it and make it very special; we don't need to judge it and make it very shameful. It is just what it is. You leave everything unlabeled, leave everything open. It's all good.

One says, 'Namaste, Father. How is it possible that when I had seen what I am, and then I can still pretend what I am not?' But everybody does that. Nobody has not seen what they are. It is very apparent to everyone what they are, you see. And that's why Guruji uses the word hypnosis. So he uses the word getting identified. Consciousness has this ability to take itself to be that which it is not and is playing with this complete freedom, with its complete freedom to identify and to disidentify.

Then you say, 'I know there are no answers to why, so I am asking how can this be? But why can this be possible to go back to the old way of living, which is so tempting to live as a person, even though there is sometimes urge to be free from this person?' Who is the one that got this freedom and now is going back? You see, the claimant to the freedom is the bondage. The one that can claim freedom is the bondage, especially when the claim is coming as if it is pointing to a claimant which is a body or the body-mind.

See, you could say that you are free, but in that statement it is not conveying that you are free as something or somebody. But the way you say it here is that 'I have seen what I am and I can still pretend what I am not and I get so involved in this world.' So now that one that is now involved in this world and therefore an object within this world, was that one free? Is that the claimant to the freedom? So these are the tricks of the mind and say, 'Ah, you've gone to Satsang and so many times it's happened that you've seen what you are, but see now look at you, so involved with the world.' But the one that discovered on the hot seat in Satsang, was that this body? You see, because this intellect will just switch between these opposites: 'I was free, now I am bound. Then I become free again, then I become bound again.' You see, who is at the center of all of this? It is not the bound that becomes free; it is only the idea of being bound that goes away.

Okay, someone has been asking to come up for a long time. Niranjan, you cannot mute yourself, my dear, and we can hear what you're saying. Okay, dear, if you're back then you can type again and we'll let you come up. But in the meanwhile, I see a hand up. Okay, Beatrice, you can come.

Namaste, Father. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Okay, so I don't know because the question or the check-in is going something like this, but um, it seems like, like you say before, that we want freedom to have a special experience of the life, not because we learn things from there. And one wanted this liberation to copy and do what I want, and it's like trying to go to the projections to yourself like you say, how these have helped me. But I feel that I want, maybe this one is not everyone, to go beyond this or not.

Okay, last part. Who wants to go beyond this?

I feel that I want to go full.

No, you want to go full? Full, yes. You know, and also... but pause, let's pause.

And I say, you know, can you hear me?

Yeah, just pause there for a moment. To be able to say that 'I want to go anywhere,' you see, to be able to say that 'I want to go fully' or 'I want to go partly,' you see, 'I want to go this much' or 'I want to go this much,' you must have a location, isn't it? What is your location? From where to where do you want to go? What is the starting point? Now, if I told you that your starting point is the 'fully' that you're looking for, then... now you have to unmute again. You can, yes.

And sorry, I don't hear too much what you say because the connection, but I hear where I want to go.

So in a way, in a way what I'm saying is: where are you now? And first, if you can decide where you are now, then I can tell you how much more you have to go.

Yeah, so I'm here. Right here. It's the only word.

But 'here' means what? 'Here' means here is the body or here is the room?

I feel that I believe now that I'm in this body. Yes. And to vanish, I mean like all this sensation, no, of this body, all these ups and downs, all the thoughts and all the histories that happen and all these things. I feel that everyone, that this change becomes empty. Yes. Because I feel like this will be helpful for everyone.

Now, in your perception is the perception of a body, you see. You see some hand, you see some feet, you see the body. You see? Now, how is it that in all of this perception you take yourself to be only some of the perception, which is the one this field? Why not all of them?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't feel that I'm controlling anything.

Okay, that is the defense. Okay. But what I'm saying to you is that we have been taught, you see, to do this. And this is what conditioning is. Amazing. This is what conditioning is. We were taught as children, 'This is my head, my hand, my feet.' And that's okay because that is needed at that point. This is fine, you see. But the thing is that this was not natural to us. I've shared this story often that when I was teaching my son and I would say, 'Where is your head?' many times he would point to my head, you see, because he did not yet have this idea of my head and your head. But this was taught to us, but it is not natural to us.

So when you say that 'I am here,' it is not natural for you to take yourself to be here as the body. In your naturalness, the body is just a set of perceptions, yes? The set of sensations that you are experiencing. You see, we can say that in your hereness, all of this sensational phenomena is being tasted, you see. So the starting point of getting to that 'fully' is not starting off badly, you know? We have to start off in truth so we can end up in truth, isn't it? Because again, if we start in false, if we start with the wrong idea, then we'll only end up with the wrong idea, isn't it? So let's keep the destination aside for some time about where we need to go. Let's keep it aside for some time and let's first clarify: where are we right now? You see? And how do we clarify this? It is very simple. You remain with your pure perception without any labeling. You see, don't label anything. Just see, just perceive. You see? Now, where are you? Are you saying something? If you are saying, you have to unmute.

I feel that he feels this conviction. Conviction takes time. It's like I... because I feel this body, I am this body. Ah, but it's conviction takes time, you see. It takes time, yes.

Here, right now. Here, here. Where are you right now without giving the time to be convinced? Just hear very naturally. Where are you? I can keep doing this if it helps. [Laughter] I can't say only that I am here, yes, but not as the body anymore. But not as the body anymore. To take yourself to be the body, you need the time to identify it, you see. You need a moment at least. 'Ah, where am I? See, ah yes, I'm in the body.' You see, you need that, the thought construct. Yes. Without that, you are free. The 'fully' that you want to get to is your starting point. Yes. That's why I say you have never left the destination.

When I say going completely, I mean I stop believing that I'm this, stop giving energy.

So you say, 'All I need to do is to stop believing anything that the mind is saying. Everything that the mind is saying, I just need to stop believing.' You see, but is this itself not a belief? Yes. So start with this one. Don't believe this one. Okay? You see, either let it go, which means to surrender, or inquire: who is the one that needs to stop believing? Yes. Okay, you're right. This thing. It is inquire: who is the one that needs to stop believing? Or if you can trust, then just trust. You don't need it. You don't need any idea. Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, some more water. Then next one says, 'This Satsang is resonating very much here. Here are no problems and it is clear and still. The mind from time to time comes with some suggestions what could be a problem. It comes and goes.' And that is very natural. It can be allowed to come and go. No trouble with that. Very good.

Then one says, 'Thank you, Father. My prayer for this me to get dissolved completely so that me is not left here but you, and no arrogance, no ego. May everything be burned in your presence, please. Thank you.' Yes, yes. But is it not burnt? It's a nice prayer, of course, but sometimes it can hide you even inside this, that something needs to happen where I am saying, 'Click, click, something there is saying please.' You see, read me. I'm saying you're free, you're free. Something there is pleasing, 'Please free me.' You see, who is the one that you are concerned about?

When you say then further you said also, 'Father, please bring me back home instead of getting lost in the world.' You see, who should come back home? It's a useful contemplation idea. 'Father, you don't give any stick to hold on to in yourself. Thank you.' I think that is a compliment. Playlist request for ending? Oh, already? Like is that a hint you had enough? Probably no, I'm just messing with you.

Then, 'Father, Satsang, your presence and words feel home. I have not been really contemplating on any pointers. Felt an urge to contemplate on the three pointers: Who is aware of your existence? Who is aware of awareness? And who am I? I felt wobbly and mind came up with silly questions and doubts and the contemplation ended. Why is it that I don't want to contemplate? How to go about it? Am I resisting? Please guide me, Father.' Ready? Three, two, one, done. Someone said last time, 'The idle mind is the devil's workshop,' no, they say? And I use that in some way. So I said...

Contemplating on any pointers, I felt an urge to contemplate on the three pointers: Who is aware of your existence? Who is aware of awareness? And who am I? I felt wobbly and the mind came up with silly questions and doubts and the contemplation ended. Why is it that I don't want to contemplate? How to go about it? Am I resisting? Please guide me, Father.

Ready? Three, two, one, done. Someone said last time, the idle mind is the devil's workshop, no? They say. And I use that in some way, so I said the 'but' is the devil's workshop. I say to you: three, two, one, done. The 'but' comes, just let it go.

Can I ask you something? Hello, Father. Can you hear me? I would like to know if there is something which one really dislikes. For example, some sensations in the body or something in the mind, and if the relationship towards it is one of disliking. I still identify regularly with this one who doesn't like certain things and I cannot really see that this is not myself somehow.

Okay. So, is it a natural inclination? Like you may not like to get an injection, for example, you see? Because the needle, it pokes your skin and that causes some pain, you see. Is that what you mean by 'I don't like'? Or is it because the pinprick is not an enjoyable experience, we have built up a notional framework saying, 'I never want to visit a doctor, I only want to always be healthy, I just hope that you know I die painlessly.' We can have many, many ideas about this. So when you say dislike, are you talking about the natural reaction—ouch, you see? Or when if a tiger was to come, then ah, you see? Or a snake was suddenly there? Like that natural reaction, is that what you mean by dislike? Or is it that you have like a lot of mental ideas about trying to avoid those situations?

I would say the second, because there are energies in the body since quite a long time and I inquired a lot in who's the one who suffers from it, or even who's the one who doesn't want to feel this. And still the mind always takes this and makes a problem out of it every time when it comes again. It's like it has some strong charge and it stays for hours. And it's not then the idea comes that it's not really so. You know, that's the play somehow.

Yes, this is the strangeness of this world. So what happens is that what we usually do to try and be rid of something mostly ends up only making it worse, you see? Mostly. So the more we fight it, the more troublesome it seems to become. And yet when we try to become open about it so that it can go away, it is still a resistance. This is a very subtle point, so I'll repeat it. You see, one approach you have seen that the more you try to push it away—'What can I do to push it away?'—it only seems to energize more, you see? And what happens is that once we see that this is what happens, then we try to become even more spacious about it, but somewhere our intention is that our hope is that if I become spacious about it, I'm still hoping that it goes away, you see? And that is not real spaciousness. It is just a tactic. It is just a ploy, you see?

Like many people say, 'Now if I resist my ego it will only become bigger, so I'm going to love my ego to death,' you see? But the ego doesn't go away with that because actually you are still resisting it by trying to become all new-agey about it and say, 'I will love my ego to death.' So it doesn't work that way, you see? So my blessing and full, full blessing for this is that may you get the openness more and more to accept whatever has to play out in whichever way, you see? May you have the openness and the acceptance because your being is never really afflicted in a true way, no matter what the content of the phenomena may be, you see? It is our boundary that we have created using our notions which can seem attacked by this, you see.

So my blessing is that may you give freedom to the entire universe. Whatever has to play out in this universe, may it play out. And if it is in this body, in something in front of you, wherever it may seem like, you see? Because this non-judgmental perception, non-judgmental openness, is the truest healing, you see. In fact, it is the only healing: pure perception. And also don't judge yourself based on what reactions you may have. Like if some energy is there and it's really strong and you go a bit like this and 'I don't like this,' you see, then that is fine also, you see? So the same non-judgmental approach or attitude that you take to whatever is showing up in your life, you also allow this mind to just be a little bit without judging it so much on these things, you see?

So if it's going through a particular affliction, don't quickly get into the thing about, 'Oh, this should... I should be free from this now,' you see? 'Why does this still happen to me? I'm not making enough spiritual progress.' Any of this idea, you see, let it be. There are times in life where you just have to experience it and it is not fun, but if you add your judgments on top of that, it only becomes worse. Is there something else you want to add to that? Good. You don't mute, my dear. We're not sure. Thank you.

Thank you, Ananta. Thank you, thank you.

Then one says: 'Father, even my prayers are not coming from the right place now. So everything is so me-me here then. So many judgments and criticism and desires are still here. You have cornered me already again. So much resistance here for everything, no openness. Slowly anxiety, panic sneaking in. I can't do anything, including surrendering. Is this also a trick to trick myself? Something is here which feels if everything is seen pure, then I am free of ego. Placing everything at your feet. I don't know what to do and what not to do.'

This is very good. Step out of this circle of doing and not doing, of thinking and not thinking, of praying and not praying. All of this play of the intellect, just leave the playground, you see? Don't ask how you'll do it because again you'll go back to the same playground. Just snap out of it. Snap out of it. In fact, you are out. Then consciousness is here, always there. We just need to remove the blockages that prevent us from realization of the consciousness.

I have been focusing on breath. I keep wondering how being aware of the breath will remove the blockages to realization of consciousness. Yes, just in the focusing on the breath, it's a beautiful exercise if you feel it come naturally to you. Don't force yourself, but if it feels naturally to you, then just do that and trust that it works. Because if you do that and also think about how it is working or not working, then it won't work, you see? If you chant and you say, 'How is the chant actually helping me?' If you are being devotional and you are trusting a practice, you see, then trust it. Then don't ask how. Otherwise, leave everything. Leave everything, including the notion of practice, not practice. Leave every concept, every idea.

What are these blockages? These blockages are just our belief systems. What are these vasanas, these conditions? They're just our conditioning of our ideas about what we think we are right about. At the root of all of these ideas is the idea that I am right about my identity, that I am right in my limitation, that I am this body. Let go of everything that you know and come to your true knowing. The knowing which is beyond right and wrong, beyond good and bad, even beyond helping and not helping. In fact, in your existence, your intellect or your mind is just a tiny aspect of it, isn't it? It's just that in this phase of this human condition, we seem to be obsessed with it. But actually, in our even our manifest experience, it is a very tiny aspect of our manifest experience. It is a tiny bunch of mosquitoes just flying from here to there. But there's a whole beautiful world of sensations and perceptions which can just be experienced for themselves, for itself, without the mosquito saying, 'This is this, this is not this, this is this, this should be like this.' To see without judgment is very curative. To see without interpreting, without labeling, is possibly the highest curative force in this universe. Okay, some hands are up. Okay, because you can come in here.

Hi, brother. Hello. Shall we start at the end today? Because we always start at one point and come to the same end. Today we can start at the ending.

No, that is not the ending. I can tell already where you went is not the ending.

I mean, just wanted to give a report that...

No, but that is not the ending. It has too much, too much gravitation. It has too much gravitation. You can't resist it.

Lately not so much, not like the earlier.

Right now, right now. Does the report have more gravitation or just being in this presence together has more gravitation?

Yeah, just being is more now.

Very good, very good. True. See, it just becomes simple like that. I realize that the mind will keep trying to say, 'But it's important, this is your chance to say this,' as if some great thing will come from that. No great answer will also come from here, you see? There is nothing, there is no answer needed for you to just be yourself. So don't try to fill up any gaps in understanding. Don't try to get some reassurance or validation also. Just empty of all of this. This is our home. This is where we are one.

But no, no but, no further no but. Just thanks.

Very good, very good. Really no 'but' because 'buts' are coming and not so strong, so they are also going. I'm a little bit struggling, but it's okay because I have already boarded your bus. I don't mind a little bit struggling. Lastly, it is smooth. It is wonderful.

That's beautiful. I like this example very much. No more 'but' because I have boarded the bus from 'but' to bus. Thank you, thank you. There's one more hand which has gone down now. Did I scare you away? Oh, I'm usually a little tougher on those who've been with me for a while, okay? So don't be scared if you're new to satsang, but no promises. Good, good, good, good. I'll be fine. Okay, what do you want to hear? What you want to hear? I hear you call or something.

Do you want to hear this? This video came up and I feel like we have a few minutes. So this is Guruji's story of the Zen monk, which is very beautiful. I'm just going to share this one. Let me see. I'll tell you a story about what happened. There was once one man and he was married, he had two children, but he was very, very detached, very dispassionate. Very dispassionate man. And many things happened. People went and stole things from his house and he didn't mind. People saying, you know, like, 'They took your donkey.' 'Ah, it's okay, they can have it. Maybe they need it. It's okay.' He would never... anything happened. He came home and found his wife in bed with his friend. He said, 'Hey George, okay, okay, never mind. Don't worry. No, no, don't hurry, don't hurry. It's okay, I'll go for a walk.' And everything like this. And he was like, nothing is troubling this man.

And it is said that he became so dispassionate then also even his children, they came and he says, 'What kind of father are you? You know, the people are calling you a fool, you are blessing them and all of this type of thing. You know, we don't want you anymore. We don't want to call you father anymore.' 'Oh yes, you're quite right. This is okay. I'm very sorry about this. But if you enjoyed to call this man father, it's good. I think he's a very nice person. Current father is not good. I also call him father.' So nothing could touch, could rock him, you know? He was just so open and so generous, so detached from the man in the end he had to...

The people are calling you a fool, you are blessing them and all of this type of thing. You know, we don't want you anymore, we don't want to call you father anymore. 'Oh yes, you're quite right, this is okay. I'm very sorry about this, but if you enjoyed to call this man father, it's good. I think he's a very nice person. Current father is not good, I also call him father.' So nothing could touch, could rock him, you know? He was just so open and so generous, so detached from the man. In the end, he had to leave home because everything left him. He went to live in a monastery up in the mountain. In the monastery, a very simple place, his job each day there was to go—and it was like a Japanese garden, like sand—and he would just go and he would just take a rake and he would move in the sand, a pure thing like this, like a Zen movement. And then after he finished, he did his washing, all these things he had to do. Then he would spend his days sitting on this rock, just in meditation, very happy, very happy, happy, happy, happy.

And it is said that he was so empty of a person that he was almost invisible. Sometimes people would go in the garden and sit right next to him and they're talking private things and they don't notice him because he's so empty. So it is said that news came to the king of demons. The king of demons heard about this mortal, a human being who is about to enter into Nirvana itself, the pure state of pure bliss. And they said, 'No, no, we can't, we can't afford this. No one from that world should come to Nirvana as long as we are here.' So he called three of his most, what you may call, attentive demons. They arrive. 'My lord,' they come. He says, 'Yes, you have heard of this monk, almost invisible?' 'Yes, my lord, we have heard.' 'We cannot allow for a mortal to slip into immortality like this. You go and find something about him.'

He said, 'But actually, we were the ones who have been following him and we did everything to try and really to break him. We are the ones who caused his friend to go and stay with his wife, but he's not, he's not attached to anything.' 'He must be attached to something!' 'Yeah, I was the one who saw his children, and his children told him, "We don't want you as a father, you're not good enough," and it did not trouble him.' 'Yeah, but there must be something. Go now at once, pay attention!'

So immediately, off you go, they all... so the monk has finished his nice beautiful garden and he's sitting quite peacefully in this room. And suddenly three spirits, and they're watching him, but he doesn't move. He's so detached. Day one, nothing. Day two, nothing. Years ago... day three, nothing. They can find... one week, two weeks, nothing they found. Then one of them, sitting very close to the monk, begins to go into meditation also. So the others come and go, 'Hey! Don't sit so close, you're watching him!'

So it is said now, this monk is sitting under there, making his beautiful paint—that was his daily movement—and he's sitting under a huge tree, a huge pine tree, sitting there and nothing's happening. One day the wind passes and a little twig, because of the wind, a little twig drops inside the sand. God! Immediately the monk looks. Each other... so immediately they start to dance in the sun and the monk became very, very angry, very angry. He lost his invisibility, became bright green basically, and shouting. What happened? What happened to him like this? This is how he lost his peace.

So the question is: what is your twig? This is what the mind is here to find. What is your twig? Meaning the thing that will get to you, because he's been growing up with you, he knows your moves and he will press the buttons and try this one, you see? Are you strong enough? Are you clear enough? You see, this is a divine game and every part of it is good. Every part of it in some way is in service to you. But you must be smart enough to know that even the unpleasant things, you use them now.

You've come to a beautiful place because you can see from your own place, but I'm doing nothing at all. Maybe the mind will say to you, 'But you didn't do anything for it.' You wait. You think you can stay like that? Or you may say, 'But how can I keep this?' And you think, 'Yes, how can I keep this?' And I will say, 'How are you keeping it now?' You cannot keep it. If you can keep it, you will lose it. So, ah, somebody had sent me a song. Okay, last song.

So the division between places is... shall I go? She... thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Guru you.