You Come Naturally in God’s Presence, by Remaining Empty - 11th December 2024

So, but if we turn towards the mind with our attention and then grab at the thought with belief, that is how the 'me' comes. So don't do that process. First thought will come—easier said than done—then don't grab at that. So remain empty then. No, as you remain empty, you will naturally find that something gravitates to a deeper place, a place deeper than phenomena. You come naturally into God's presence by remaining empty. And God's presence leads you to His Nirguna recognition, the shapeless, attributeless recognition of that holy nothingness. And that holy nothingness is the source of all fulfillment. Oddly enough, all fulfillment in our seeming life comes from that recognition, from that tasteless taste.

So that is the ground of all spirituality. Whatever path you have, the rest of spirituality is just dealing with the 'but I'm not able to remain empty'. If I'm not able to remain empty, then you remember God's name or you inquire into who you really are. But suppose you didn't have that body, is the 'me' there? There's no 'me'. And if you remain like that, an unspeakable magic happens. So we have to be true to ourselves and say, 'I would like to have this finality. I would like it to be just simple, click-click.' But we may notice that we pick up our story, our narratives, quite often. So we need some help. And that help can come in the form of prayer, a surrender in the form of prayer, or an inquiry in the form of the question: 'Who am I?'

So how does it work? Keep yourself so immersed in God's name that there's no room for 'me'. Because the sages told us the lane is very narrow: when there is 'me', there can be no God, and when there is God, there can be no 'me'. So use your prayer or, if you haven't started the Atma Samadhi prayer, just whatever appeals to your heart. The mind wants to come and participate—Ram, Ram, Ram—but Ram, this is important, it's like that. And the holiness of taking God's name will propel you deeper and deeper into that holy heart, that holy temple of where God resides.

Suppose your quest or your heart resonates in a different way; you are more inquiry-oriented. So the thought comes, you say, 'Who is witnessing this thought? Who is the witness of this thought? Who is witnessing your thought? Who is that?' Sincerely ask this question. And it's not that the question doesn't have an answer; the question has an answer, but you have to change. You have to drop the false instruments of knowledge, which are only the source of false knowledge, Avidya, and go to the true instrument of knowledge, which is the Atma within. So in asking a question like that, which your mind cannot answer—it is too much for your intellect—then you're forced to go into the deeper place of self-knowledge where Atma can be found.

Which path should you pick? Whatever your heart tells you to. So the path of inquiry, the path of japa, the path of prayer is to knock on the door of your heart, seeking entry into His mansion where He lives. So make it a point that after every part of your sadhana, you are making sure that you're remaining with Him in a silent, quiet love. You prepared the meal through your sadhana; don't forget to eat it in the form of tasting God's presence. Initially, it may seem like japa time 90%, quiet sitting time 10%. As you go along, it may become 80/20, 70/30, 50/50. But there's no... if you get your pride into it, then you'll say, 'No, no, me, I can do it 100%.' Then you're just doing a disservice to yourself.

You have to... Kabir Ji said that—at least it works in the North like that, and we'll find the right reference for the South also—but that in the North, you have to have roti in every meal, like chapati in every meal. In the same way, to remember God's name is your roti, chapati. Don't feel like you have to be rid of it. Be true to yourselves. There is no badge of honor to say, 'No, I have 99%, I will sit in silence.' The remembrance of His name or the sincere inquiry into who you really are will give you the gift of the quiet presence, the quiet sitting in your heart temple. But don't make the mistake of rushing through that part of the process. Stay there. Even if you get distracted, return there. If the distraction is too much, return to your prayer, return to your inquiry. But stay with Him in humility, with the attitude of the beggar, not forcing the King to give us a gift, but humbly expecting the gift from God. Did you get an answer in all of that long way? Good.

This is how we turn inwards. Then the question can come that, 'But can I always be in prayer or inquiry? What about my job? What about my family?' So allow all of that to naturally unfold from the holy place. But we must take our time, two to four hours every day, to sit in this, our temple, immersed in a quiet love for God. Whichever tool we use to get there, it's fine. And if you're sitting like you're sitting today, then satsang time is also counted. I noticed that your mind is not very chatty. Shanti, shanti. You see, before enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water; after enlightenment, chopping wood, fetching water. But the two are completely different. Although outwardly they may look completely the same, inwardly they are completely different. Absence of desire or wanting a particular outcome, the absence of doership, is the ease of the naturalness of being when you are in an ego prison versus the freedom of enlightenment.

So the sages are trying to tell us that our outer life doesn't need to change, but there's a complete operating system override of the old way of operating into the new way of operating from head to heart. And if you can be like this now, what stops you from being like this in any situation? Hearing is happening, speaking can also happen with this. All worldly activity can happen, but you're not attached to what is happening or what is the outcome of what is happening. So in that way, you stay inward-facing no matter what may be happening on the outside. That is the pathway to God. So what are the exceptions that we should make? Huh? What is the exception? This is the exception. Make it through. Hearing is happening while being empty. It's happening. Pray.

So if the fruit of prayer is our being with God, and the fruit of hearing satsang is also our being with God, then it's interchangeable in that sense. And you must come to satsang when you feel like the words of satsang or the presence of satsang brings you to this quiet presence of God. Only in that way is it satsang—to come to the Sat, the company of the truth. And only Satyam, the truth, is. Only that seems... there's any exception? Find... yes, that's a very good point. If you made an exception, then Maya will find that for us and make us live through that. So all of us have a line after which our surrender goes and we say, 'I need to take matters into my own hands.' So it could be when it comes to my children, when it comes to my money, when it comes to the health of this body, when it comes to my spirituality or my spiritual constructs.

If a person comes and attacks your Advaita, that could be a line. Or a person comes and attacks that, that could be a line. Many times we don't notice these things. We leave God to argue about God. 'No, you have it wrong, I have it right.' Is it? So don't let any provocation take you away from God. So simple like that: empty, empty, empty. Then if just... if you were in front of a mirror all the time, you can see that your forehead will start to crumple if you're going into Maya. You're going like that, making orange juice out of thoughts. Then return to your prayer, return to your inquiry, return to whatever method the teacher has given you and come back into that.

See, now from there, sometimes Grace pulls you in. So it seems like you have withdrawn, like all the famous examples of the turtle—the legs are withdrawn into the shell. But you can't force any of that. You may close your eyes, you may do all of this that you want, but the actual withdrawing away from your senses only happens by Grace. Have you noticed like that? That when you're empty, sometimes your eyes close and something becomes you. It's like you left this realm behind and to the mind it seems like you went to a limbo or nothing, but in your heart you don't want to leave from there. So obviously good. Huh? What do you need to do? Don't worry. What? You shut the light off? For now it's all right. For now it's all right, because without this it will be fully dark. Ah, the smaller one? Okay, let's try one. Try the smaller one. It's okay. This may be taking more electricity. Just keep the smaller one on. This is the smallest one on? Turn... yeah, you can turn it on. It's all right. It's all right, don't worry. This is good so that it lasts a little bit longer. You're able to hear what I'm saying? Yes. I can hear you, I know.

So this remaining in this holy place of the heart, to the mind seems like nothing is happening. It seems like an utter waste of time. But in a deeper place, you don't want to leave from there. So it can't be that nothing is happening. It is just that whatever is happening is not perceptible to your senses and to your mind, and it's not sensible to your intellect. You can't make sense out of it. So that requires faith for you to be like that, because your mind will resist that and say, 'But why are you wasting time? Your whole life will go to waste like this.' So that requires an immense amount of faith to trust what your heart is telling you, to remain there in spite of the attacks from the mind. So remaining empty for God, then by His Grace, may pull us into this deeper realm, this deeper placeless place where we want to stay because His fragrance, His perfume, is becoming apparent to us. And if we keep following that fragrance, we may at some point come to a revelation of the presence of the Atma within.

Your whole life will go waste like this, so that requires an immense amount of effort to trust what your heart is telling you to remain there in spite of the attacks from the mind. So, are we remaining empty for God? Then by His grace, He may pull us into this deeper realm, this deeper placeless place where we want to stay because His fragrance, His perfume, is becoming apparent to us. And if we keep following that fragrance, we may at some point come to a revelation of the presence of the Atma within. And in the light of that Atma, we come to true Atma Gyan leading to Brahman, the highest insight. But just by turning inwards, you're no longer grasping for any fulfillment or enlightenment or Mukti or attainment of some knowledge. All of these desires also have to be left behind, and we make ourselves fully available for God.

Why do we want to be outward-facing or believe the thoughts of the mind? Why would we do that? Habit. But what is the message in that habit? Does the mind say, 'Do this so that things will become worse for you'? No, the mind is offering better. Our minds are offering—Maya is offering in the guise of our betterment—the loss of forgetfulness of the reality of God, the reality of the Atma. In the guise of betterment, it does so. That's why the sages have asked us: If you had an option, you work on yourself or God works on you, which option would you pick? Very good. Now, if you want God to work on you, then you have to hand over the tools to Him. You cannot grasp at them tightly and then say, 'God, work on me. I surrender, I surrender,' but grasping tight, you see? So the mouth is saying 'I surrender,' but actually you're holding tight. So actually, it is just letting go. See, inward letting go is the surrender, and then He does His magic in your heart. He does His work in the innermost chamber of your existence.

That is why letting go, letting go in every tradition, in every spirituality, in every religion—surrender, submission—all of these things are important. Humility is very important because in pride, we think we know what we are doing, where we are going, what is right, what is wrong. We think all of this. In humility, we can actually surrender. Does any of us actually know here in our heads where our life is going? Nobody knows. Do we actually know what is better for us or worse for us? We don't actually know. So this is the starting point of humility: to recognize that I don't know, my mind is too limited, but the One that is running this universe, He is here in my heart and I can truly hand over my life to Him.

So, are you willing to become losers like this man who is talking to you? In the eyes of the world, you may become just sitting around, doing who knows what. Try telling your friends and relatives about the heart temple and that you're spending your life sitting in the heart temple. So it's possible that in the world's eyes, you may become a big loser. But for the attainment of God and for your faith and for your love for God, that is a risk you must be willing to take. You can't ask for value in the world as well as humility in the heart. So this whole push and pull then, between the force field of Maya which will try to pull you out and the force of the Atma within which will try to pull you in, is the push and pull of our spiritual lives.

Value that which pulls you back in. Many times you need some trigger to happen in the world also, like you may read a quote or a book or watch satsang or listen to some bhajan or something like that helps you immerse back in, you see? But there's so much more in Maya which may keep you attached to the outside. Let go of that. Only sixty years you have to do like this, sit quietly in the heart temple. Just joking about the sixty years! And they say that like Ma Shabri, she waited patiently for sixty years. And that story works on so many different levels, isn't it? There's a lover of God, there's a devotee of God within all of us who is Shabri. So that one has to wait in God's temple for as long as it takes. That one has to wait in God's temple for as long as it takes.

What if you were to be able to talk to Ma Shabri and say, 'What do you feel about your life? Wasn't it like a punishment that for so many years, fifty or sixty years, you went and put flowers for Ram Ji's welcome, got berries for him to eat every day, tasted each berry in its sweetness to see whether it is worthy of offering to the Lord?' Everything that you need to know about how to lead a life is contained in that story: servitude to God, faith in His love, faith that He will not abandon us. Be willing to stand alone. Her whole sangha left, they all got Mukti. The Guru said, 'You also come.' She said, 'No, I know in my heart Ram Ji will come, so I will wait for him.' Be willing to stand alone in your devotion for God, towards God. All of that in one story, we have the full manual about how to lead a life.

So that should teach us: what is the amount of provocation or temptation needed for us to leave the holy place in our heart? Notice for yourself. You're sitting there, the phone buzzes, you get a message that says 'I don't like you.' Is that enough? 'Let's leave God and let's fix this.' A friend calls, they say, 'Ah, this has happened, that happened, you have to come.' You know, something either good-sounding or bad-sounding, and we are quick to forget about God and rush into that. So that is how Maya works.

It is said that Shirdi Sai Baba—it is said that at one time he got a visitor who said that, 'You know, this bhakta of yours, he is very unwell,' or she is very unwell, 'and you must come immediately.' So it is said that even he for a moment got into this mode of doing, trying to do it himself, and then in an instant remembered God is here, God is, and returned to that and then proceeded from that place. So don't be so feeble in Maya that the slightest provocation makes you leave your love, leave God's light.

Saint Nektarios—what happened is that one of the nuns in his monastery, her mother did not like the fact that her daughter was living there, and this mother was a very influential person. So she went to the police and she said that this Father Saint Nektarios is doing some exploitative things with these women and you must find out what is happening there. And she said that she believed that her daughter is pregnant. So all these police people came and raided his monastery and they started pushing people around. They pushed him also. And when all of this was happening and these girls wanted to fight back, he just pointed up. So such a great example of not leaving God's remembrance, not leaving His presence in the face of such strong seeming provocation, that people are accusing you of such nasty things and yet you don't leave His light, His presence.

So all of these are examples that we can try and emulate to the best of our ability. Try to emulate, fail, get back up again. Try to emulate, fail. That is the beautiful work of our life. It sounds oppressive when we put it that way. So I was saying, would Ma Shabri say that she led a very oppressed life? Fifty or sixty years of doing all of this work, not really knowing whether God will come? No, I feel like she would have said, 'Even if He didn't come in this form and give me darshan, this is the best life I could have lived.' So question this for yourselves: Is your spiritual life worth it only because of the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow, or is it worth it in itself as well? Is every moment of that silent prayer worth it in itself as well, or is it only about the prize at the end?

If the testimony of this man is of any value, then I can tell you that every moment spent like that is worth a million things that the world may be able to offer. So no, it's my—leave it unless it is also experienced in the sense that what I call the tasteless taste is worth the taste of everything. You think if the world became a tiny ball for me to consume with all its pleasure, compared to that tasteless taste of just that holiness, then I would not exchange that for this. We do exchange, yes, we do exchange it because of our forgetfulness, our provocation, our being tempted. Yeah. So the hypnosis is a hypnosis of forgetfulness. The hypnosis of Maya works in the form of forgetting, isn't it? So when you believe a thought, like we started satsang, we forget God. But the hypnosis weakens every time you pick not to forget, choose not to forget.

So when you ask the question, 'Is it worth praying and being there for itself?' For itself, and I have a hard time distinguishing, and obviously I don't know where 'there' is. So it's almost like it's an end in itself. That's a good point. And actually, I spoke with Christina about Rumi and how his love for the Divine, the fire of the Divine—and it was an interesting contemplation on, I don't know how it ties into this, but just being so in love and there's a pain in that, but that's separate. Being such a lover of God and then being with God, it's such a hard thing to distinguish.

It's hard to distinguish, yeah. To love God and to be with Him, we don't have to distinguish. To even want to love God and to love God or to be with Him, we don't have to distinguish. Just we fall into those traps of that which only can happen by grace, then we take it on to ourselves. What can we do? We can only do this and this. 'Do' is also in the level of seemingness, of course. But it seems like I can pick up the narrative that the next thought is telling me or I can not pick up the narrative of the next thought is telling me, or I can say God's name or I can not say God's name. But the actual outcome of any of that sadhana, which is the effort in spirituality, is never, never in my control, never in my hand.

So that is why wanting to love God is as good as loving Him, because that actual production of love we can't do. We can just remember Him, and whether that brings us to the stillness which is an effortless stillness or whether we still continue to battle through all of that, that also is not in our control. So that power called Grace has to do all of that. And that is why I've been ranting so much against a Godless spirituality for so long, because in a Godless spirituality it becomes all about the power of my practice, how well I have done. But what could we have done? 'Who am I? Who am I? Who am I?' ten million times and have no insight, because the insight will only come from His grace. Without His grace, no spirituality can actually become spiritual. Without spirit, any practice, any prayer—you could be the biggest Pandit of Sanskrit, know all the scriptures by heart, you may be able to recite the entire Bible—but just because you can do that doesn't mean that you have spiritual wealth, your spiritual insight.

This is a story which strangely is attributed to Adi Shankaracharya. I'll tell you why strangely, but it's a beautiful story. So Adi Shankaracharya is going somewhere and he sees this grammarian who's learning the rules of Sanskrit grammar, you know, that 'falam falani' type thing we learned in school. So he's going on doing this, going on doing this, and maybe he's becoming proud about it or he's just doing it to become special for himself. So he said to him that, 'You fool, chant the name of Govinda,' in very strong words, very strong words for to like your head. 'Chant the name of the Lord, remember Him instead of doing all of this.' For that to come from Adi Shankaracharya, who has brought so much of this scriptural Advaita, the best commentaries on all of the scriptures of Advaita are written by him—for him to point that out is very important. Because we may learn everything, we may become spiritual encyclopedias, but if we don't have love for God in our hearts, if we don't have true insight in our hearts, all of that is not worth anything. And all of that can only come from Grace. Not the slightest spirituality can be spiritual without spirit. Simply saying is that spirituality is not possible.

Scriptural Advaita—the best commentaries on all of the scriptures of Advaita are written by him. For him to point that out is very important because we may learn everything, we may become spiritual encyclopedias, but if we don't have love for God in our hearts, if we don't have true insight in our hearts, all of that is not worth anything. And all of that can only come from Grace. Not the slightest spirituality can be spiritual without Spirit. What I'm simply saying is that spirituality is not possible without Spirit. You may learn all the spiritual texts, you may think that you're leading a spiritual life, you may wake up in Brahma Muhurta every day, you may do so many things—and all of these things should be done, I'm not attacking the thing—but Spirit, the spiritual outcome of all of those things, is always in the hands of the Atma, which is Spirit.

So, a godless spirituality is just a contradiction, you know? Just like a human pride, it says, 'Oh, I will do the inquiry, I don't believe in God.' Okay, so really find out. Talk to me after you find out who you are. You will find God there whether you like it or not. And will you find out without God's Grace? Whose Grace is that which has to work? Is it like chopping a tree? You say that fifty whacks should do it, should chop the tree, you see? But spirituality is not mechanical like that. Otherwise, we would have said ten malas every day for ten years and you're enlightened. It doesn't work like that. Because for some, one 'Ram' is enough; for some, the whole lifetime of 'Ram Ram' is not enough. Who can say? So our job is like Shabri: to have faith, to keep offering ourselves every day, live in servitude to God, and when He has to reveal Himself is only up to Him.

What is it without Spirit? That would mean like, 'Okay, I have been told by somebody that if I taste these berries and keep them for Ram Ji for fifty times, then on the fiftieth time He has to come. I'm entitled to His coming because of what I have done.' So what is spiritual pride? Spiritual pride is just entitlement—that 'I have done this, I have done this Puja, I know this thing, I've inquired for fifty years, I have been praying Sahaj Samadhi for seventy years all my life.' All that is spiritual pride. But what about God's part in that? No, just the mechanical way of then saying that, 'Okay, how many times do I have to pluck the berries for Ram to come? Oh, is it 108 times? Okay, so at the 108th time He has to come.' Like things of the world, no? How many times in a month do I have to go to office to get my salary? You go in all the working days, you have to get your salary, you are entitled, you see? So that is kind of what we take our spirituality also to be. It doesn't work like that because He knows. He knows.

Just so, godless spirituality is just like a fake spirituality which really doesn't have faith in Spirit at all. It just has faith in our end of it—our seeming effort and our seeming action. But without His will, you could be the most advanced practitioner of any spiritual practice and nothing is going to happen. And if it is His will, you could be the foolish beggar on the road; in your simplicity, you may remember God once and you may be granted the highest Brahman, the highest insight. You are saying faith is opposed to entitlement. That is the difference. To know that it's a graceful path and not a mechanical path. It is a path ruled by the Grace of the Atma, which is just the presence of God Himself. That is the spiritual part.

That's why, different from wanting to do... there should be a degree, no? Enlightenment degree. Some want to do an engineering four-year degree, some want to become a Chartered Accountant, five years of study. So in the same way, you should have an enlightenment degree also. Why can nobody offer that? They can offer you a program to become a Vedantin or a Pandit or a very learned scholar, but nobody can promise you enlightenment, Brahma Atma, because those are operations of Grace. So once we recognize His Grace, that makes us humble. Otherwise, we feel very entitled. Because you can't push Him. There's no lever. You can try everything, but you can't push Him. And the scariest part is that most of the spiritual path makes no sense. So that's why I've co-opted Neil deGrasse Tyson saying the universe has no obligation to make sense to us. In the same way, God has no obligation to make sense to us. To love in spite of not being able to rationalize is faith.

Okay, like if you note down moments where you feel there's been a lot of Grace from God and you feel grateful, and if you note that down, can that help? What did you just say? Something you just said right now that brought up that rationalization.

Rational? So that's a rational way to love God. 'I remember He's done all this before, and if I had written it down and then I see it again and then I feel, yes, I'm so indebted to Him,' something like that. That would still be like... what would you say about that? I'm not getting the contradiction.

Not the contradiction. I'm saying that if I remember, I find a way to remember Him constantly, then that leads to love for God. Then is that a rationalistic view?

No, you may remember, but if He doesn't give you the Grace of love or tasting that love, then it's still Grace. You could do whatever you may, you cannot remove Grace from the picture when it comes to spirituality. Because when you say 'remember,' it's not just the name, no? It's like His qualities, what He is, that relationship in a way. So use whatever tool you have at your disposal. Use your memory, use your intellect, use your mind, use your body to bow down, use your house, give it to God—do all of this in the world. But if you don't have the Grace of God, then that love will not come, that insight will not come, peace will not come.

So you're saying do all that plus the faith in His Grace?

Yes, the reliance not on what we have done or what we can claim, but just a surrender to His Grace. That's why you put a board on the door saying, 'It's not easy.' You all see it, see? But then you are stuck because once you realize that this is it, and then you realize that it's not easy, then you're left with no Plan B. Okay, it's not easy, so it's not like you can check out of spirituality and go back into atheism or something like, 'It's so difficult, I'm going to check out of this.' Like, I was an atheist before I came into spirituality, and there were many times of great frustration also, but you can't just say, 'Okay, this is not working out for me.' It's not like an engineering degree to say, 'Okay, I'll become a doctor, I'll stop this engineering program.' So there is no Plan B left.

To remain in God's presence constantly, see, is like Maya is pulling out all the stops, is it? And we are just fighting, struggling to remain with the Atma within. So what are we going to do? 'Let's leave it for the next life.' You can't really say like that. Sometimes in our frustration we may say that. Not really. This faith in His Grace also, that word you used, is that rationalization? No, it's like, 'It's all previously He's done this and so...' Are you saying it's like inductive reasoning? I feel like you're pointing to like an inductive reasoning which says that, 'Okay, the sun always rises from the East, so then it will rise from the East.' But it's not faith; it is just because I have had... I now can induce or I can deduce that it will come from the East.

Experience, like a development of trust?

It can be because of experience, but a faith in a greater revelation, or a faith in a greater love, or a faith in a greater abidance or union with God can never be inductive because you've never tasted that in the past. What we are truly longing for in our heart, we have no real reference point about that. Like Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi says 'Manonasha' or St. Teresa says 'Divine Espousal' or a 'Prayer of Union.' So all of these things, when we are exploring, we have not actually tasted, but we just need to have faith that God's Grace is with us and He will take us into all of this. Like an awakening—even like a minor awakening experience—before you have one, it's a question of faith. It's not inductive because you can't say, 'Okay, yesterday I had a really small one, then this morning it was a little bigger awakening experience, so then tomorrow morning I may have a really big awakening experience.'

You're saying faith doesn't build through experiences?

It does, but it's not purely inductive in that way. Like the development of trust happens through God coming through for us time after time after time; that is a development of trust. But faith actually is a quality which is independent even of that. I mean, it sort of relies on it, but faith in itself is just so irrational—that one day I will meet God and I will stay with Him. Just absurd. Maybe language is a bit constrained to use like that. What is the boundary of trust and faith? Can't really say. What is the most absurd thing you have faith in? Huh? Faith. Okay, so faith is not a belief. Faith is that which is beyond all our rational capacity.

We can turn the lights on now because... even this. Our rationality tells us that, 'Oh, ever since I was born, the sun comes out from the East, so next morning I can pretty much plan on it being there.' So that's our rationality. We don't really know whether it will come, but because it has happened so often, we can use our rationality to say that that's how it's going to be. So in a way, we can trust that fact. Faith is like we're talking about Shabri. She has had no experience of Ram Ji coming. She has had no past where she can claim that He had come and, you know, all this happened. She's just purely living on that faith that one day He will come. 'I have to do my duty.' Like a belief, but it's drawn more from something deeper in the heart than a belief. Beliefs are actually very brittle. You believe something very strongly and somebody comes and says, 'You're all wrong, you're all messed up, this is all not right,' like that. And if they are authoritative and charismatic, you may leave that belief and say, 'No, no, I believe in this.' That's why ten years ago you believed in something else, today you believe in something else. They're brittle.

Faith is a deeper construct. It's a deeper place from where you just feel like, 'No, I can risk my life on this.' Your friends, your family may tell you, 'But are you sure you'll find God like this?' 'No, I don't know, but I'll risk my life on this.' That is a different quality than just a belief. It's intuitive. It is intuitive, exactly. Intuitive is heartfelt. Intuitive is a gift from Atma; the rationalization is a gift from intellect. So my question is then, returning to our original theme, which is: Is there a temple in your heart? Is there a temple in your heart? Why is that temple important? Because you can rest there. Is there a resting place which is holy, which is godly, in your heart? What do you feel?

Of course, not your physical heart, not your emotional heart—the core of your spirit, the core of your existence, the very essence of your being. Do you feel like there's a resting spot for you over there? And if you don't, it's fine. It's fine to start with; you have to build that. So all of these qualities that we talk about—faith, humility, patience, courage, gratitude—so many of these beautiful attributes, they become like the foundation for that temple. And your sadhana then creates the doorway. Brick by brick, every time you remember God truly or you inquire sincerely, you add something to that holy resting place in your heart. This is the biggest gift you can give to yourself: build that temple rather than building so much on the outside. Because then, no matter what happens in the world, you can be at rest in His presence with your Atma within, which is the source of all knowledge, all love, all peace. So the virtues of your life are like the foundation, and your remembrance of God, your sincere self-exploration, are the bricks that allow you to then build this heart and for you to be able to sit quietly in His presence. That is the point.

This is the biggest gift you can give to yourself: build that Temple rather than building so much on the outside. Because then, no matter what happens in the world, you can be at rest in His presence with your Atma within, which is the source of all knowledge, all love, all peace. So the virtues of your life are like the foundation, and your remembrance of God and your sincere self-exploration are the bricks. It allows you to then build this heart and for you to be able to sit quietly in His presence. That is the whole foundation of spirituality to you; you have to live there to be with spirit.

Why is it important to build this heart temple? Because in the core, that place is where He has set His alive presence—that primordial vibration which is neither Saguna nor Nirguna, just pristine. You may call it Om, you may call it 'I Am,' you may call it a lot of beautiful words, but the tasting of it is the most important, to be there. So your remaining empty to remain in pure perception leads, can lead you to that withdrawal to your heart temple within. All of you visit that place. You may not recognize it at this moment, but all of you have visited that place many times. You're sitting quietly sometime, or you're listening to a bhajan, or you're even watching something on TV and something happens, something touches you, and you just close your eyes and maybe no experience is being felt, just a flutter of some love, some peace, and you don't want to leave. That is the place that I'm talking about.

And in our human condition, the mind makes us forget all those experiences. 'Very far, leave it, nothing is happening, leave it, nothing.' But if you start to pay close attention to your life, you will see that maybe on a daily basis you retreat into that holy place that brings rest to you, that brings love to you, that brings insight to you. These are the gifts of the Atma. You come to satsang only for this, actually, so that you taste this within yourself. The words, of course, give you some pointers to remember and to follow, but really what you're longing for is this Amrit—this Amrit from the heart, immortal nectar of His presence.

So when our focus becomes God, we learn to become a little more attentive about our own life as well. Is it always boring and difficult and oppressive when you close your eyes and go within? It's not always. Then what is there? Sometimes we enjoy it so much we don't want to... family is calling us, like, 'Go!' What is there? It can't be nothing. In a way, it is nothing, but that nothing is the pristine holy place. So all the temples, all the holy places of worship, the mosques, the churches, everything is an outer representation of that place which I'm talking about. And it's designed also many times like that. The Garbhagriha—have you seen in the temples, the sanctum sanctorum? Traditional Hindu temples can be very dark. You wonder why. Why can't they light it up better? Because it's a representation of that holy light within that place which seems so dark and lit only in this beautiful way.

And many times to go to these traditional temples, you have to climb a mountain, you have to go into a cave which is very small, you have to fight through all of that. So that's just a depiction of the inner journey. You have to fight all these Maya temptations, desire, emotion, thoughts, all of that, and you go deep within into that holy place. And it's very beautiful because sometimes in the process of doing that, we are also doing the inward journey without realizing it. Although I'm too lazy to do much of that, or rather just say it like that, but many have had this experience of the outer journey taking them to that same place. They may not even realize that. That's why pilgrimages, all these things—many people get transformed after a pilgrimage because in the seeming outer, God in His grace is blessing us with the inner as well. In the outer love for God, He's blessing us with the inner insight as well.

So don't go there, don't go there, don't contemplate here, contemplate here. That is contemplation. What is... yeah, the Christians call it contemplative prayer. They're not sitting here contemplating; they are in the prayer of the quiet, contemplative prayer. So like that, everything is about coming to this holy place. That is to be inward-facing. I'm still answering your question. Every satsang is an answer to the same question: how do I turn my life inwards? Getting a sense of it at least. If I give you a glimpse of the project at hand, then I've done a little help along the way, because the spiritual project has become very confused in today's world. Like, hardly anybody talks about spirit and spirituality without Atma. It literally is Atma-less. Can you believe our luck that we have Atma which is guiding us along this path? What grace! The divinity of God's presence is guiding our path. Not one alphabet of spirituality can be learned unless it is taught to us by the spirit. All spirituality is only taught by the spirit. What grace that spirit, Atma, chooses to be a disciple. That is why Atma is called the true Satguru, the true Satguru within.

So Atma Darshan, the true Satguru Darshan, happens in that heart temple. Don't go visualizing a temple, okay? It's not visualization; it's just an intuitive sense. If sometimes a visual helps you deepen into a non-visual place, it is fine, don't worry about it. But don't get too attached to the visual itself, because what you will visualize will always be less than what it actually is. Our visualizations cannot accurately depict the reality of this intuitive insight. What your heart will show you will always be greater than what your mind, imagination, or intellect can. With me in this project?

Yes, my Father. Please, I'd like to ask you about the spiritual heart. That spiritual heart that you also, I see, referring to this area, but even it's not a physical place. Is it something to be focused here, or the core of our being can be anywhere where we are sensing?

The most common experience of this holy place is in the heart area. It is in the heart area. So if you look at it, it is called the heart temple in Christianity. If you look at it, Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi said it's all here in your heart. So it's very, very... the most prevalent experience of this, which although is not a physical place, it seems to be here in the heart. But Consciousness can decide to play in any way. God can operate in His will in any way. So you may get a sense of experiencing it in another part of yourself, but just be a little careful of that. Get it verified by a teacher or get it verified by a credible source, because the mind is a great trickster as well to keep you away from the true place. Many times it'll also say, 'But not here, I feel it, you know, my...' something like that.

So you'll start to notice for yourself also more and more that as you empty—like we started satsang, just empty—where do you withdraw to? Where you withdraw to is your heart temple. So then that can give you a very concrete sense of where it is that I'm talking about. So just remain empty as long as you can, or through prayer, through inquiry, whichever your spiritual path is, and then you will come to a point where your attention starts to draw inwards, isn't it? Like it just starts to withdraw. The world first starts to seem very uninteresting, then you will see that it's just going in, in, in, somewhere, somewhere. So that space of quiet withdrawal, silent sitting inwardly, that is called the heart. You see? So you can check for yourself: where does it seem like you come to a rest? You can trust that. Because it is tricky, it is not a physical place, but these kind of clues can make it clearer and clearer.

Father, yes. Hi, hello. I just wanted to come and express my gratitude with you and with God. I feel we are the luckiest in the world and there's nothing to complain anymore. I mean, to be complaining constantly, it is... I see that everything...

I mean, it's a very important point. It's a very, very important point you're making, that all of this which I'm telling you as your reality, even if we are not rejoicing every moment—which we should be, actually. Every moment of our life knowing the fact that God is here should be a celebration. But instead, when you first get into this trap of constant complaining, which then basically is saying that all this talk of God is not true, that He's actually not here and that's why I'm left on my own and that is why I can constantly complain. So this is a very, very important point: that we are the luckiest because although everyone has a temple in their heart, very few realize the sacred pathways to get to it and the sacred way in which we can live there. And we are being blessed by the Atma, the Holy Spirit itself, to show us this beautiful pathway to be there. And of course, spiritual frustration will come sometimes, all this complaining will come, but those should become very rare because our life should be a celebration that we are the luckiest, we are the most graced ones that this pathway has been opened up for us, which seems so closed to most of our brothers and sisters. It's a very important point.

Yes, and everything is for our growth. And sometimes I see, I've been seeing that wanting things to change, no? And to expect for that to happen fast and the way as I want, we're missing all the process. We're missing all that we gain during the process, that it's of way more value than what we expect, you know? All these qualities, all these virtues that you've been talking about lately, you know, we actually are developing them if we just stop trying to change or wanting the things to be different or just be so arrogant, no? Impatient.

Impatient is a sign of lack of faith. That actually we are saying that we know better. God is not really actually here, He does not actually really love us, He's not taking care of every step, every experience of our life, every heartbeat. So in this one simple-seeming impatience with God, we forget all of His attributes of loving us so deeply and taking care of us as the most loving mother, making us sit on her lap and nourishing us in every way, every moment. It's very true, very true.

Thank you. I'm just so grateful and just love you so much.

Love you so much. Yeah, faith in the voice of yours. There's a very whispering voice, the most subtle whispering voice within you that is telling you the holiest truth about yourself and about God. To trust that is faith. If it is just like belief in the mind, then that is just like a belief. But faith is because the source of it is from a different place, and that can seem very absurd to the intellect which wants to be rational, it wants to be correct, it wants to make sense. Okay, let's go to Adrian.

Can't hear you, my... no, still... now can you hear me now? Yes, yes, yes, loud and clear. Good. Hello, dear Father. Thank you so much for this satsang and everything that you say about God, about how loving He is and that He knows everything. And I was also very inspired by what you said about St. Nektarios, what happened to him. And I have to watch that movie. I have it, but I haven't watched it yet.

Which movie? For everyone, it's a movie called 'Man of God.' 'Man of God,' yeah, made very, very beautifully.

And I see how also in my life there are situations when people may not understand the path that I'm on, the spiritual path, or maybe they even criticize you or Guruji and say that... for example, if I can share, someone that I love very much, my ex-partner from some many years ago, I was with her, but a few years ago I failed to connect with her to talk a bit and I shared about you and Guruji and how I went to Monte Sahaja and how beautiful this path is. And she said that, 'No, they are false prophets and like cult leaders' or something like that. And there was this pain that I couldn't express how you actually are, you know? How beautiful you actually are. I can't, and I still can't communicate this well to her so that she can understand. Are you...

A few years ago, I failed to connect with her to talk a bit, and I shared about you and Guruji and how I went to Monte Sahaja and how beautiful this path is. And she said that no, they are false prophets and like cult leaders or something like that. And there was this pain that I couldn't express how you actually are, you know, how beautiful you actually are. I still can't communicate this well to her so that she can understand.

Are you still in touch with her?

Not really, no.

Because I would love for her to, you know, because we can never become complacent. So we must pay attention to anyone. The one who is criticizing us more, we must pay more attention to them than the ones who are praising us. So if she would be kind enough to look at a video of some satsang or something like that and then tell me that this makes her feel like it is a cult, I promise to pay attention to that aspect of the feedback. And if there are changes to be made, we must make them. No, I'm being very sincere about this. The thing that I have learned in my short beginner journey in spirituality is that we don't know when pride gets us, when it grabs us. So we must take everything as an indication to contemplate, to introspect.

So anyone of our friends or relatives who feels like this is a cult, then please, could you ask them to have a look at a satsang or two, or at least a part of it? And they can give us feedback and say, 'This thing that you do, that is very cult-like; it is very oppressive.' What is the difference between a cult and a satsang? I've been contemplating this a bit, and I know this was not originally what you were asking, but I feel it's important to share a bit on that. I feel like a satsang is driven by love, but a cult is driven by fear. So if she feels after watching something that I'm sharing or I've said that actually the children that gather here to partake in this are driven by fear and not love, and something I'm doing to enable that or engaging in that, I'm very happy to look and change my behavior.

Well, she didn't actually say that it's a cult; those were more my words. She said more like, 'You are false prophets,' you know, like how Jesus says in the Bible that there will come false prophets in my name or something like that. And I tried to explain as best as I could how much you help me to get out of suffering and that you are not like that. I really don't feel, speaking for myself, I don't feel that there are indications that this is a cult, or this or Guruji or something. I just think that she doesn't have the openness to look into this at the moment, at least.

It's very beautiful what you're saying, and may it be so for all of us that may it never be like that. But let's really look and see that every cult that there's ever been, have members ever felt like, 'Oh, this is a cult'? You have always felt that the other doesn't have openness, the other doesn't have understanding, you see. So, of course, my deepest prayer is that we are not making any sort of cult of any form, but I need to constantly remind myself to not ever become prideful or complacent about that, so that I never fall into that trap and waste this life, which is in service to God, by making it in some way in service to me.

And I feel like it is only for the world to tell me. Of course, Atma within will tell me, but if I'm getting stuck in pride, then I'm probably convoluting the words of the Atma within, the guidance of the Atma within. And many times it is important to listen to feedback from the world, which doesn't mean that we blindly accept every feedback as true, but to welcome it and to then truly investigate the validity of that, and to draw it into the heart and to seek guidance on that. I feel like for every teacher, it is our responsibility to give that space for feedback to come and for that introspection to happen.

Yeah. From what I can say is that I don't really see any signs of this pride in you or wanting to... I mean, I feel you're speaking from God and you are helping all of us so much.

Yes, thank you. You're very kind. But I have told all of you also that I'm continuing to work on the pretense which still exists over here. I don't find myself a truly transparent instrument of God. I feel many times an Ananta sort of filter comes, a teacher sort of filter comes. So I'm working on it constantly, and feedback really helps me to spot... you know, it's like somebody giving me a gift saying, 'You know, I notice that this is where you get stuck.' I look at that as a gift because it is so beautiful that maybe something is a blind spot for me, but a child sees it, or a friend sees it, or somebody with more experience in this way sees it. For them to point it out is very helpful along the way.

May we always be open to listening and never feel that we can't be doing anything wrong, because I'm sure, actually, that I do many, many things wrong still. So I have to work on those things, and there may be many more things that I don't even know are blind spots. So we must always welcome that. So if you ever speak to your friend again, give her my invitation to watch this or some other satsang, and I'm happy to... I may, of course, get hurt at times if something seems very harsh or strong, but that is my business to deal with, and I have to learn how to take criticism better. So I'm happy, really, for all your friends and families or people who care about you, if they are telling you something like this about our satsang here, please know that they're very welcome to share and I'm happy to listen.

Yes, thank you. Actually, she also shared with me some videos that I haven't watched yet, more from the Christian side. So I can share what she sent to me.

Yes, please do. I would like to see, because in some stupidity or foolishness, if I'm in any way disrespecting holy Jesus in my heart, then I will make amends and seek his forgiveness. So please share those with me as well.

Yes, thank you. And thank you, I really like that you are also sharing from more sages about more stages and more paths, like also Christianity or Sikhism. I like this that has been happening for some time now, and also studying scriptures like the Ramacharitmanas. It's beautiful. And I thank you also for mentioning about contemplation. You said contemplation and the contemplative prayer?

Yes, contemplative prayer.

Yes, I feel like I've been doing this for some time and I was a bit doubtful because I couldn't categorize it either into self-inquiry or into prayer, like just prayer. So I was a bit confused, but thank you for mentioning it and that it is also a valid way of approaching God. I feel like I'm in a silent communication with God and the insights are coming about different things that I have to look at, or that are important or have importance in my vasanas or my attachments or things like this. And yeah, thank you for that.

I'm actually finding that among all the pathways to God, the differences are usually very tiny and mostly just in language and things. So if you compare, say, contemplative prayer or contemplative reading, for example, as opposed to Advaita sadhana, both seem like the same. What you're supposed to do in Advaita sadhana is to hear the words of scripture or the sages, then contemplate it with the intellect, and then allow it to deepen into a deeper heart contemplation where you're mulling over it in your heart, so to speak. And then that leads you to a silence, like the prayer of the quiet and open and empty.

So whether it is Zen, whether it is Advaita Vedanta, whether it is Christianity, whether it is Sikhism, whether it is Islam—and I need to study more in terms of Islam, but all of these ways, like the way of the Sufi definitely is so similar to what we are talking about. So I'm finding that really the distinctions based on religion are mostly geographical and cultural. And now with this world becoming so close to each other, all of these differences should not affect us in the strong ways that they do. It is really very, very similar in all the parts.

Same way for all the contemplative parts: you turn to the silence in your heart using whatever spiritual tools have been given to us. Like if you read Madame Guyon—I don't know how to best pronounce that—talking about contemplative reading, it's like almost like an Advaitic sage talking. And I was listening to another saint and their whole passage was just pure... you could not tell if it is Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi or that Christian saint sharing that about beingness and the reality of God's presence. It was just so similar. So at the root of all of it, it has to be the same because it's the universality.

I was joking with someone saying, is my Atma because I am a Hindu and your Holy Spirit because you are a Christian, are they going to be two different things? Just because we have taken on different religions, that cannot be. So we must break through these barriers of limited understanding. And the other—sorry if I'm rambling and ranting about this—but the other approach which then people take is that we say, 'Let's make it universal' in the sense, 'Let's not say God, let's not say Ram, let's not say Jesus, let's not say Allah, let's not say Waheguru. Let's say some generic word which makes everything seem like a force of nature or a force field instead of an actual loving, living being.' That also I want to fight in some way. The holy names of God, the holy living presence of God, we cannot make it like gravity or electricity or something like that, just a force of nature. So we can take universality too far by making it like that, or we can make it too like, 'Only my path is correct or valid.'

Yeah, yes. You know, like these last days I felt so much peace and love. I don't know why and how, but I felt some contentment in my heart, you know, to rest in my heart. And sometimes, last evening I was sitting in my bed meditating and I could hear this... it's like a spiritual experience. I was hearing this vibration, Om, so loud in my room. I don't know where it's coming from, but I feel like it's auspicious in a way. It's a help from God.

Very, very good. And there are some ones who are... not everybody is divisive. Like we met a priest in a church close by and we had a bit of a conversation about things. So at the end I just said, 'Father, would you say that there's a distinction between that which you call Holy Spirit and that which I call Atma?' And he said, 'No, there is no distinction.' Was he Indian?

Yes, he was an Indian priest, Goan descent from what I understood.

But you have a valid point there. But at least this much is good for some signs of hope, because for me it would be so absurd to say, 'No, no, your Atma is different from my Holy Spirit,' you know? Just such a strange sort of view. So I'm so grateful that he didn't take that approach. Yes, I see a lot of hands, but thank you. We made a promise to God that we will read the Ramacharitmanas every day a little bit, so let's not delay that for today. I'll make up for all of you next time when we meet, so let's read at least a bit of the Ramacharitmanas every time so that we don't undervalue that beautiful gift.

Thank you, Father. And sorry if I took too long. Thank you. Bless you.

While we are setting up for the Ramacharitmanas, did you all see an interview of Pope Francis where he went to an interfaith religion conference and he said that the God of all religions is the same? It is the same one. And that was such a courageous, beautiful thing for him to say. And he's getting a lot of flack on YouTube and many platforms for that statement, but I was very touched that the Pope himself can confirm that the God that...

Thank you, Father, and sorry if I took too long. Thank you. Bless you.

While we are setting up for the Ramacharitmanas, did you all see an interview of Pope Francis where he went to an interfaith religion conference and he said that the God of all religions is the same? It is the same one. And that was such a courageous, beautiful thing for him to say. And he's getting a lot of flack on YouTube and many platforms for that statement, but I was very touched that the Pope himself can confirm that the God that all of us pray to is the same one God. Which is strange that we need to be in this century to say that, but still, it is progress. Still, it is progress.