Whatever the Mind Throws at You, Take It to God - 14th August 2024

Then the seeker says, 'I have not practiced meditation, self-discipline, self-restraint, or righteous living. I have not served the holy. I have not acknowledged the Lord, my King.' Says Nanak, 'My actions are contemptible, are contemptible.' And we'll talk more about that. 'Oh Lord, I seek your sanctuary. Please preserve my honor.' Oh, basically, 'Please save me,' he says. The human body has been given to us; this is our chance to meet the Lord of the universe. We are wasting away, we are squandering away this life in our love for Maya, and soon it will be over. He says keep the right company both within and outside. Remain in the remembrance of God's name. Keep the focus on God and not on 'me' and then we can cross over this hellish existence which seems so tempting at this point, but it is a fading dream. Soon it will be over.

So how can we meet the Lord of the universe? Was that the first question we asked today, or how real is God? So what is the clue here? If you're going to be caught up in the love of Maya, which is the realm of attachments, then we cannot meet God. And the promises of Maya are just the promises to make this hell palatable, but it's never going to be. The life of egotism, the life of specialness, the life of 'me', the life of pride, the life of existence basically, the life of separation basically, the absence of love can never be truly happy, truly satisfied. It's a constant chasing, it's constant running after.

Right, let's see how it comes in words. But why I want to mention this because also here, and I mean it's such a popular concept, 'Don't be caught by Maya, don't love Maya.' And I mean lately in this spirit where I am, I am actually dealing a lot with this. And for me, this starts sounding like an excuse, like that is used as an excuse to just dismiss Maya or even to hate Maya. And that, that's not God then. So why is there so much pointing, 'Don't love Maya' when, or 'Don't be attached with Maya'? Or why I hear it wrong when for me it would be 'Love Maya' because that's as well God?

What is your definition of Maya?

It is also the world. It's the world.

That is not Maya in our definition. Let me explain to you what Maya is. So the world appearance is not Maya. The waking state is not Maya. Ananta has made it very clear that the world appearance seems to be Maya when 'me' comes, which is that when the 'me' comes, only then is it Maya. So to love the 'me' and to grasp for the 'me' and to be attached to what the 'me' wants, that is when we are stuck in Maya, not the appearance of the world, you see? So if we get this understanding correct, that the love of Maya is the love of worldly attachments that the 'me' has. The 'Ma-ya' in Hindi means the 'I come', the 'me' comes. That is when it becomes Maya. It is not Maya just inherently.

So love the world in its appearance because then it's just kind of... if it's understood in that way, it gets the opposite effect.

Yes.

And then it's like complete withdrawal from it.

Yeah, and that's what I'm... because I'm... so we have to withdraw from the 'me', from the attachments of the 'me', from the grasping of the 'me'.

But sometimes then it's also the world or like the concept 'the world'. It also has to be included just to get that withdrawal in a sense, but then you're also withdrawing from God.

Yeah, that's also withdrawing from the God. It can also be felt like that to withdraw from... what is the withdrawal from God?

Sometimes when it's a big attachment or the Maya or the appearance of the world, to get this effect to be with the God, you also withdraw from the appearance. But also at the same time, it's then withdrawal from the God because it's like lack of love in a sense. So I'm trying to kind of understand: is to not be attached to the world to withdraw from the world, or is it to meet it more openly?

It's very tricky. It's actually quite simple. It's without the 'me', the world is not a problem. And when without the 'me', all that flows out from us is love and kindness and compassion just naturally. So it is the 'me', the lens of the 'me'. When we view the world from the lens of what we want, what the 'me' wants and what it grasps onto, then it is Maya. Then it is attachment. Then it is trouble. But without that, it is natural only love to flow.

But would you say independent of all of that, it is most important to meet the Lord of the universe?

Yes. I mean to stay with this kind of stability which doesn't change.

That's... so suppose that meeting with the Lord of the universe was unstable. Is there a reason that is good enough that we must want to meet God? Is it for its byproducts or because He is Him, He is God?

Yeah, you're saying the reason. I'm just maybe saying the recognition, the recognition of that more like that because the appearance is all constant.

So is it something... this is a very common fallacy in today's spirituality that our recognition has to become constant and stable. So is it that the recognition has to become constant and stable, or do we recognize that there are two different aspects in our being? In one aspect it is always stable and the other aspect it is never found. So it is not that the recognition has to become stable; we have to become stable in remaining with the right instrument. And maybe indirectly it means the same thing, but it can be troublesome in the idea that, 'Oh, it is something that comes and goes, now it has to become stable.' Versus that I use my nose when I should be using my eyes, and using my eyes also the smell should become stable. Are you getting a sense of what I'm saying? It is the question of the instrument and not the fact of the recognition. So if you remain in the right place, it cannot leave. That's why I keep asking: has anyone met God and He left? Has it ever happened to anyone? Isn't that staggering that when we meet God, He never leaves? We leave. And when we say we leave, we're saying we return to our mind, intellect, we return to our grasping, we return to our taking only our sensory perceptions to be real. There's nothing wrong with sensory perception, but if you take only those to be real, then you're discarding the whole iceberg just for the tip of the iceberg, or thinking that the whole ocean is just the waves on top of the ocean.

Yes, yes. So how stable are we? Because we made the recognition of God and the recognition of our highest reality as pure awareness into like pseudo-science or something like that, you see? So we feel like we do this experiment, we ask 'Who am I?', we mix the 'who' with the 'am' and a little bit of the 'I', and then as part of the scientific process, then there is something called the recognition or the insight. It is not that the whole process is under the... is subject to Grace and God's will, but our job is only to remain in the right place, which is inward-facing. Are we stable in that way? You know, on this question, 'Is God...', I was thinking back when you said that, like that first sentence, because just yesterday I just, you know, this business of inquiry and 'Who am I?' and 'I am' this and that, and the Atma and the Paramatma, and sometimes it's the all of it. And I don't know, yesterday I just two words came and it just stayed and like everything else just subsided. And the words are 'You are'. That's it. And all of the 'I am' and this delving into this 'I am, I am', ah, it's just so nice, you know? It's like 'You are', that's all. I am not actually, but that all again, no need to even say that because the 'I am', the whole package of 'I am', it was... I was feeling like so blessed, you know? Just 'You are'. I just now close my eyes and the only thing is...

Have you noticed that when things make us cry in a happy way, in a blessed way, then it is not because of some understanding in the head? When things make us cry in the head, it is only because of sorrow, suffering. When things make us cry in a blessed way, a happy way, it is because something touches us somewhere deeper.

Today I have to speak. Yeah, so when something touches us deeper and deep, and you're very deep, and you break deep, and you keep breaking deep, and you break there... so those are all movements in God supposedly. If all that breaks, then it's like you don't feel the suffering kind of. Would that be possible to say? So my issue here, and you don't feel it's like you're not human, there is no feeling of being human anymore.

Yeah, what is an example of the feeling of being human? All those also qualities of vulnerability, humbleness, and humility, and feeling deep. But if you break so deep and you just don't feel anymore, then you don't feel anymore. I've never had that experience. Maybe I've never gone that deep. I've never had the experience where the deeper I went, I did not feel love or I did not feel kindness or compassion or just a belongingness, a contentment. I never reached such a state. Do you feel like in reaching the Nirguna that the Saguna just vanishes? Or is it that in meeting the Nirguna, the Saguna just vibrates so beautifully in love and peace and contentment and joy? You can have sometimes meditative experiences where you're in a like a Nirvikalpa Samadhi where everything fully goes like a deep sleep state, but you're just awake, you see? Otherwise, there's no big deal; we don't need to say Nirvikalpa Samadhi like a huge thing, just go to sleep, the world vanishes, you're done, you see? So the point of the Nirvikalpa Samadhi is that you're just about to awake, just the most limited, most subtle vibration.

Meeting the Nirguna, the Saguna just vibrates so beautifully in love and peace and contentment and joy. You can have sometimes meditative experiences where you're in a like a Nirvikalpa Samadhi where everything fully goes like a deep sleep state, but you're just awake, you see. Otherwise, there's no big deal; we don't need to say Samadhi like a huge thing. Just go to sleep, the world vanishes, you're done, you see. So the point of the Nirvikalpa Samadhi is that you're just about to awake; just the most limited, most subtle vibration of a sense of awakeness is contained around which there is no time and there is no space, see. So maybe is that something like what you're saying? But that's not the sense I got. Nirvikalpa Samadhi is not something that always remains; it is something that just you taste and then at the end of that, what happens? You're just so full of love, you just want to hug everyone or you just want to say to everyone, 'Come, come, come with me.' So I have not had that experience where you become zombie-like because of God, but I have lived the life where I was zombie-like without God.

No, it's not a zombie life. It is different. It's like when so much of breaking happens, or maybe it's a protection of the sense inside to not break anymore, but it's just then it just becomes quiet. It's like there is no feeling, there's just no feeling. And I wouldn't even say I'm talking about this abundance of love. It's just over. It's like because it happened so many times, so where else can it happen? No, because the feeling of the suffering is the same basically, even though the subjects can be different or the stories can be different, but the feeling is the same. So what I'm actually describing is this empty state without it. It's not zombie, but it's also not like you're saying, this abundance of love.

So let's try to do this together, yeah? So go inside yourself and don't feel love. Tell me when you come to a point where you go that deep that there's no love there. Like there should be no outpouring of love. It's not a love—there should be no outpouring of love. Just go inside and just block the love. Tell me when you achieve it. As you go deeper, does the love increase or decrease? And I know we all know what is supposed to be the right answer, but what is your experience been? Increasing, huh? What are you finding?

Was actually... so there's an idea of a sort of nihilistic emptiness you come to a point, and sometimes the Nirguna sounds like that. The Absolute sounds like that, like it's nihilistic nothingness, you see. Limbo. Because there is neither up nor down there, so the mind can make a limbo state out of it and it can seem like... but that's terrible. That's just a denial of love, it's just a denial of kindness, compassion, humility, all the good things, faith, you see.

One, because yes, it feels somehow like a numbness. Yes, try now. But now it's not like numbness all the time. It has now... how it is? It's not numb, it's kind of more...

I'm asking, your face is showing me how it is. What I'm asking this because the human nature of the feeling was I was perceiving this as guidance, not 'what is love, where is compassion.' It's like a guidance. So why I'm asking this is because in this less, I kind of don't have the guidance, but it's quite comfortable in a sense. Like it's very neutral. It's very also kind of new to me, like to feel it or experience it, but I'm not sure if that is in a sense correct. Like, correct in a sense to live like that, be guided.

Is that without God or it's actually... no, be guided by deeper love, deeper, deeper love. A higher love, a deeper and deeper... the deeper you go in love, the more you feel it, the right place you're going to. So this is not that kind of Nirvana which is comfortably numb.

Yeah, this would be comfortably numb. And then if it's deeper and you're open and you love, then there is again suffering.

No, don't leave that place. You can't suffer if you're there. You're not a visitor there; you have to live there.

I visited there and then I'm out here and there's more suffering.

Yes, of course, because Maya will try to pull you back. It said you went there, you see. You went to the holy place and now you visited the not-so-holy place again. So then the 'me', the attachment, all of that will try to pull you back and that will seem like an immense suffering, much more than before. Isn't that all our experience? That as we are deepening in our inside, if we play in the wrong playground, that seems worse than it used to. It does, right? So you can't leave. Just though, if you're doing rock references, then it's Hotel California: you can't leave. Don't get in that comfortably numb.

It doesn't seem like I'm doing it or I have an effect on it. It's like a result of results, result, and I'm just like kind of observing it because it's like...

So the sages are guiding who then? All this guidance from the sages, all the scriptures, all the satsangs, why is it needed if it's just something that one day I'm in the vortex of numbness and the next day I'm in deep love? I don't know. Is it like that? Stay with God. You can do it. You're staying with God or staying facing the altar, you see, is not a series of random events or something like that.

I have no idea facing the altar of God, but I know that there was so much, so much broke. It's broken, it's all broke. And now it's like before I know I would suffer because of it, and now it's just another level of just... it's not even suffering, it's... or it's a suffering, it's numb. I don't know even what it is, but definitely it's not kind of...

Okay, so let's do the experiment again. So I asked this question: is there within you that which is beyond time and space? Not imagined, but met. Because the imagined one can seem very like... what is that within you which is beyond time and space? Stay facing that. That is facing the holy altar of God. What within you is beyond time and space is definitely not within the body. That is where His temple is; that is called the heart. So the heart temple is the holy place within you, and that which is holy is not in time and space. Must find this. And the deeper you go in that, the love is the Prasad of that place. The deeper you go, the more you feel it, the more sensitive you become. The love that we're looking for in the world, that is just a sad reflection of the love that you feel here in your heart.

So to be inward facing this way is to come to the accomplishment of the highest in our life and to just get over to the 'me, me, me' all the time. Soon your life will be over. I saw one like a very sad cartoon actually, somewhere on Twitter or something. I saw this cartoon of this man, he's running as a young man and he's collecting... like there's money all around him and he's collecting it like that, like that as he keeps running. So there's like three frames like that, and then in the last frame, the road is getting over the cliff. The end of the cliff is there. He has a lot of money scattered all over him, but he's become old and the end of the road is right there. But is it just about money? Not just about money. There are millions and millions and millions, billions actually, who have come and gone, fallen for the same trap. 'I just want what is enough. I just want what is rightfully mine.' All the excuses to chase that, everything other than God. Because God needs faith. God needs faith. And faith is difficult. Faith is not just belief. It's not just 'I believe in God.' Faith is to trust that which you can't understand. It's beyond your rationality. Are you willing to risk your life in this faith? Otherwise, what is your Plan B? 'I don't want to risk my life on this, I can't.' So then what is option two? What is it that you'll get so much here?

And by the way, I'm not at all saying that if God is number one in your life, if God is the center of your life, then your waking state will just become empty of everything else, you will become a beggar on the streets and you will never have a relationship and you will never get any material comfort. Not saying any of that. It is heard that way, you see, because the mind tries to scare us. So does that mean then we can chase that also? No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm only saying that being with God, He will get you what is good. Can we please understand this simple point? That if we are just with God, He will bring us that which is good. If we are with our true parent, you feel like the true parent will not get us His gifts? So instead of chasing, just be with God, because all that is good can only come from Him. And that needs trust, that needs faith, that needs devotion, and it needs a lot of patience. And that is the pressure that the mind puts on us: 'Leave it, leave it, you go, you want to have a normal life, don't you? God can wait.' It may not say those words because then you will let it go, but in one way or the other, 'God can wait.' You feel that our ancestors who left, those people who are leaving the world every day, thousands and hundreds of thousands leaving every day, many of them would have also said, 'I will find God,' but they ran out of time. Why did they run out of time? Because they thought that there is time.

So are we really committing to this project or no? Or are we going to be half-hearted? We don't expect God to be half-hearted with us. We expect Him to be fully there when we turn within. How many words do we want to hear from how many sages? The purest, the holiest, the sweetest ones like Nanak Ji, just pure love, who's telling us these things which even in his mouth they can sound harsh, that we are wasting this life. So are we committing to this project or no? It will feel risky because you want to do many things with your life, and again I'm saying that all the good things are given only by Him anyway. So 'I'm committing, but... but conditions apply.' No conditions can apply here. It's a complete makeover of our life. You will not be able to squeeze God into the crowd of your existing life, into the crowd of your attachments. The hundred Kauravas are already there; God will be 101. So like Arjuna, we have to go chop, chop, chop, chop, chop with all our attachments so that we make room for God. And never become complacent, never feel that you made it, now you can just grab, grab, grab. Always be humble, always be a beginner.

You just heard the word God seriously. Like literally, Nanak Ji is telling us that this life we've been gifted with this opportunity, and the opportunity is to meet the Lord of the universe. Now the phrase 'Lord of the universe,' our mind really can't fathom that, and plus in the modern world we keep hearing these things everywhere, so it's no big deal. So when we hear Nanak Ji saying that this life has been given to us, that much we admit, it has been given to us. Like, we did not have anything to do with the creation of this life, so it's been given to us. And he's saying it is so that we can find the Lord of the universe. Can we meet those words? And I'm telling you that to meet the Lord of the universe, you have to stay facing that which is beyond time and space within yourself. That is the heart altar. And don't make it into some pseudo-scientific experiment and say, 'Oh yeah, my presence is there, then in the presence is like this.' It is Him. His presence is there, which you meet as your presence. What a gift that His presence is that which I call 'I am,' the Atma within. Whether it is felt or not, it's none of our business. We have to stay facing that altar, whether it is lit up or it seems dark.

So to the mind it will seem like a sacrifice of time. 'I'm waiting at God's altar, hopefully I'm not imagining a lot of rubbish, just waiting patiently and courageously for His grace to bring us His Darshan, His recognition.' While the world is offering every brand of candy there is. Every brand of candy there is. 'Come, come, come, come.' The deeper you want to go, the more the candy comes. The world: 'Come, come, come.' And often times it is neem leaves that seem like candy to us. They still call us and say... it's often times neem leaves which seem like candy. 'Come, come,' because you are going deeper to a higher...

Imagine a lot of rubbish just waiting patiently and courageously for His grace to bring us His recognition, while the world is offering every brand of candy there is. Every brand of candy there is: 'Come, come, come, come.' The deeper you want to go, the more the candy comes. The world says, 'Come, come, come.' And oftentimes it is neem leaves that seem like candy to us. They still call us and say, 'It's oftentimes neem leaves which seem like candy. Come, come.' Because you are going deeper to a higher love, to a greater love, so the mind is like a corrupt tourist agent—we've all encountered those—or a greedy auto driver. 'Why you want to go to Taj Mahal? It takes you to some other place and says, 'See, this is it. Why you want to go that far? I'll take you here, I'll show you in Bangalore only, I'll show you Taj.' Like that. So it tries to replace God through the world of appearances, and then it becomes Maya when you say, 'I want, me wants,' because that want you should have kept reserved for God alone. That longing should have been only for God alone, not for that which comes and goes.

So, is there a greater lack of faith than not remaining with God because we think we know better what we want? Was that a complicated question? Is there a greater lack of faith than not remaining with God because we think we know better what we want? I don't feel like there's a bigger lack of faith than that, and yet this is what all of us do: go our own way instead of remaining with God. And that error, whether you want to call it sin or mistake or crime or pap or whatever you want to call it, it is undeniable that we do this. It would be a great stupidity for us to say that I live every moment in God's will. So it's important for us to notice what makes us behave in this way. Do these things waste our lives? But the project is very difficult, is very difficult, except when you are guided by the right guides.

I would go so far as to say that it's impossible without the scriptures, without the sages, without the saints, without the teachers that we have. This chakravyuha is impenetrable, and that is why all the sages everywhere have valued the value of the right company, both inwardly and outwardly. If you get involved inwardly with greed and envy and desire and wanting, that's bad; it's not good for your spiritual health. If you are only involved outwardly, attached to those who just care about that which is temporal, of the world in time, then you have to deal with that additional load to retain your inner strength. Satsang can be a refuge in this way, but to truly be a refuge in this way, each Satsang member has to be fully committed to this project. And will we slip from time to time? Of course we will, all of us will. But because we are each of us committed to this project, then in our interactions, in our being around our brothers and sisters, we can elevate their way of life in that moment, and in that way, then the Satsang is a refuge.

But it is completely possible for us as a Satsang to become kusang, to become bad company, if all we do is spread judgment, if all we do is spread this—what is the right way to say?—casualness about the project of God. And it is not the right way for us to be. All of us should be so alight with the fire of God that even if in five Satsang members two are sleeping, then the other three should be able to keep them afloat. In our case, many times what happens is that one is sleeping, then all five are sleeping along with them. So where is that fire for God? Jesus said one time—and again, I'm paraphrasing, I'm very bad at quoting especially the Lord—but he said, 'Because you're lukewarm, I have no option but to spit you out, because you're neither hot nor cold.' You're somewhere in the middle. Somewhere in the middle: spiritual when it's convenient, worldly when it tempts us.

Soon it'll all be over. Soon this one will be gone. Soon all of you will be gray like this. The boy who started sharing is not there anymore; from 12 years back, he was not like this. Soon this one will also go. So keep the fire for God, recognition for His presence, for His love, alive in your heart. Fight! Don't just give in to Maya every time it dangles a carrot. The best carrots are from God. You just get this point.

Can I ask you for this fight? Which character? This fight, this fight, this fight... there are two feelings. Sometimes one feeling is that I am making this fight to be engaged in this fight, and the other one is that I really need to fight it because it's like dark. So there is no other option. Yes. So how it is confusing? I see difference that it's not my own mess or it's extra fight that I need to bet. So how to fight darkness?

There is no such thing as darkness, isn't it? So how to fight it? That is the fight that we are engaged in. Is darkness? No, in the sense that is there a substance called darkness? I'm in fact saying the opposite of what you're thinking. I'm saying that we must fight the darkness, but the mind can come to us and say, 'But it doesn't actually exist, so how to fight that?' We have to be the light. We have to bring the light because although darkness is not a thing, it is the absence of light, isn't it? So although sin is not a thing, it is the absence of love. Love it out. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Just love it in and out. True love, you see. Unconditional love, God's love.

Sometimes for me it's very like just being.

We did this experiment together many years ago—I don't know if you were there—but we used to do this often. So I used to take everyone through, and I'm a bit tired today to do the whole thing, but you get the sense. One approach is to deny. Deny in the sense of 'I'm not this.' Neti, neti: not this, not this, not this, not this, not this. Come to the point where you cannot deny anymore, that you cannot say neti anymore. And in your mind you can never reach that point, but you can reach that point. That is the whole point of the exercise. So come to the point where you can no longer say, 'I am not this.' The other thing is that you love everything. To love is inclusive. So you're not saying 'not this,' you're saying 'also this.' I am also this, I am also this, I am this, I am this, I am this, I'm the space between this, I am this, I am this, I'm this. Include everything. Just include, include, include in full love, in full belongingness truly, until you come to a point where there's nothing left to include.

Tell me the difference in the two places that you come to at the end of both of these. One is a seemingly outer movement of love, love, love, include, include, include, include. Second is the seeming opposite to the mind, which is to exclude, exclude, exclude. That which changes is not what I am. That which changes is not what I am. You go inwardly, and maybe you can make a note of this contemplation and do it when you have some time at home. Tell me, what is the difference at the end of both of these contemplations? So you can either love it out or just focus on that which is unchanging. Where do you go? Where do you reach?

You were mentioning last time in one of the Satsangs, you were mentioning you went to see a movie and you had to close your eyes. Yeah, so like this, it's quite a long time was my perception. I just needed to withdraw from everything, from just like it was like a movie that I cannot see or participate in. And what is the most difficult part? But what was the most difficult part once I closed my eyes? That I saw that I got attached to wanting to know what happens in the narrative.

Exactly. That's exactly what I'm saying. So now suppose it's like those... now if you go like that in the middle of a conversation, then both of us and everybody listening will say, 'How did that end?' And that's what brings us back. You can spot this, that it's not necessarily the—of course that movie was horribly violent and I didn't want to see it at all—but it's not what pulls us back in. It is wanting completion in the narrative, wanting closure.

Like comparing to the life I was contemplating then, this my approach was this. So I will have these life situations. So you close, you withdraw yourself inside, and by that light, like love it out, light it out. I had this obviously was an idea that the movie is going to change into the light-love version, but that movie is already made, like you were in the cinema. So I'm guessing from the experience that I had, I was so sure that if I love it like you said, that movie is going to change into something really lighter version, right? And it seems I was trying this years and years and years, and that the movie is made already and I'm now kind of—I'm describing this less or come from less—I accept it kind of that the movie is made. So the concept so deeply I'm trying to figure out: even if I love it, even if I love it out, it is done, made already, it's not going to change. So what am I doing with loving it or lighting it? I mean, and then I had an idea, okay, so that's done, maybe then like the new one starts, which is that love version. Because we do have impact when we go with the light and love everywhere, then if we go with something else, so there is some difference.

So firstly, just—and I'm not saying that you were doing this—but firstly remember that every movie with the 'me' as the protagonist is a horror movie. So whether the 'me' is wanting to love it out or become the mahagyani with neti, it's always going to be a horror story as long as 'me' is central. Notice whether it was like that. The 'me' wanted to change outcomes by loving and by doing all of that. And the 'me's' idea of loving is what? 'Love me.' And its idea of love actually is to grasp, is to own, and whether it is to own the outcome or the people, that is all. So true love is without any filter. It can come only from God's light, and that which comes from God's light always leads to auspiciousness alone. But if you use it as a tactic, as a strategy, it won't work like that.

I keep experiencing love with God or without God. That is the most...

It is the most important question, my child. So let me—and it got clarified for me also a few years back—is love, love without God? Kabir Ji actually showed me this. So he said that love is love only when it is about God. Our loving our brother and sister—brother or sister, whatever the construct of the outer relationship may be—has to be about God. And this part gets missed out in the modern world. You feel like, 'I am loving, that one should love me back.' No. I am loving, you are loving, only when you're pointing to the light of life, which is God. If I keep that out and it's not about God, then it's not really about love. Are you all getting this point? And even if you don't accept it, at least hear it, because sometimes like when I first saw it, I didn't accept, but at least I heard it and it kept working within me. It kept doing something within me, you see.

I am telling all of you that love is love only when it is about God. It can seem like a very tough pill to swallow. It cannot be trained, because if it is about God, it is unconditional and unlimited. So the trick I will tell you is that you stay facing God's altar, and all the love, all that needs to flow out of your expression, will come. Is there a holy altar of God within you or no? Does Ram Ji, Lakshman Ji, Sita Ji live there? Does Krishna Ji live there? Does Jesus Ji live there? Does Allah Ji live there? Does the Lord of the universe live there or no? That is the first question I'm asking. Is God real, or are we just going to always relegate Him to a corner and try to construct our life without taking that to be the fundamental reality? Haven't you seen that even in Satsang, the mind wants us to exclude God from it? 'Yeah, God, God, yeah fine, but this—tell me about my life. This—tell me about what I should do.' So don't look at the elephant in the room, let's look at every ant. That's what it says. So the denial of the elephant in the room is what has led to this world of suffering. We are denying the very basis of life.

To always relegate him to a corner and try to construct our life without taking that to be the fundamental reality—haven't you seen that even in satsang the mind wants us to exclude God from it? Yeah, God, God, yeah fine, but tell me about my life. Tell me about what I should do. So, don't look at the elephant in the room; let's look at every ant. That's what it says. So, the denial of the elephant in the room is what has led to this world of suffering. We are denying the very basis of life. We are denying life itself and saying, 'Okay, what should I do with my life?' But if God is central, everything is simpler. It's not easy, but simple to keep with everything and everyone. And everything comes and everyone comes. And what I'm saying is that, okay, God, God, God, God—keep him at the center. Okay, let's do just for a minute an experiment with this. Remove the 'me' and just make the story about God. What happened now?

Suppose you went to Lord Ram's Darbar. You know what a Darbar is? The court where he is presiding. You went over there and you just kept looking at the one who's just sitting in a corner over there. You're not looking at the one who's sitting on the throne. Then what Darshan are we going to have? That is what we are doing with our life. We are looking at the ones who our eyes are showing us, but who's the one sitting on the throne? We forget about that one. We are looking at the soldiers who are guarding the throne room from outside, but we are never looking at the one sitting on the throne of the universe. Are our senses showing us the throne room, the heart temple? Am I saying that we must be rid of the content of our senses? No. But why see the movie only half, or like just the tiny corners, and say it should make sense here? See the whole movie. I look only at time and space. Do you want to waste your entire life only looking at this moment? Be in time and space. That is the question of God versus Maya. And without 'me,' is there time? Is there distance? There isn't. It's notional.

What are the best seats in this movie? You know what the mistake we make is? That if I go to God, then what changes for me here? What we should be asking is: if I change something here, will it help me go to God? God has to become central. The movie has to become secondary at best. See what I'm saying? If you think you can change something here, change it so that you can be with God. Don't expect God to change things here. It's all upside down. You feel you got something horribly wrong? Okay, it's not making sense to you? Well, hopefully nothing I'm saying is making sense. Good.

I've been meaning to ask you this many times, but somehow I feel I'd lose the insight, if you want to call it that, in the process. And today I feel I should. Does going inside lead to outside? In the sense, where is God? When you ask, 'Is God real?' is the question that when I go inside, will I actually get to meet him outside?

No, no. Like, I mean, if I go inside, do I find that the outside itself is God? It's not objects, it's God only. Yes, definitely.

And this inside, outside, time and space stuff, and sitting on a throne—it's an object if it were to sit on a throne. And outside space and time, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, and maybe outside space and time, how is he sitting within? Inside and outside time and space, and sitting on a throne?

I see. He is inside, he is outside time and space, he is sitting on a throne—that is a bit poetic just to add to some beauty. But not in the way the throne that we sort of visualize. So that is true. If you go inside, you come out in the sense it turns inside out. You go outside time and space. This outside is not outside time and space. God is also here. It's here. This is not an exclusion of God. What more is there to God? What's inside? That's the main point. Inside that which is... okay, what's the good metaphor to put? Okay, so tip of the iceberg. Let's say another one.

Suppose you say that it's a submarine and there's a periscope. Now you are on a boat and you can see on the outside; you only see the periscope. So you think the periscope is all there is as far as that submarine is concerned, you see? But in the boat, you have this ability to somehow go inside. And when you go inside, you notice that the periscope is part of the submarine, but it's very tiny. It's the tip of the submarine. So this outside is just the surface; it's just the tip of this iceberg, the periscope of the submarine. It is not that you go inside so that you can meet him outside, but you recognize that the seeming outside is also part of the whole. But he's truly inside.

Would you say the higher meeting is meeting the periscope or the submarine? And would you say yet that meeting the periscope is to not meet the submarine? You can't say that. You would say it's still the submarine.

Yes. So anybody who sees the periscope, they come and report, 'I've seen the submarine.' Are they right or wrong? That's why satsang questions are so difficult.

So this isn't something I just imagined. It is getting there somewhere. Are you saying that is this something that I just deluded myself? Which part? That God is this light in which... I don't know even in which this... where's the light part?

This is the projection. The light part is when this stops being objective, loses its solidity. Okay, so if the movie screen then becomes just like a hazy, cloudy something, is that then the light of the projector? It's light. I don't know about the projector, but the light that I'm talking about is outside the movie screen, although the moving images are made up of that light. But you have to go outside the references of time and space for that movie to meet the projector, isn't it? Yeah. Otherwise, in what scene will Amitabh meet the projector which is projecting the movie? Can he? Suppose there is a movie with Amitabh as the main star; in what scene will he actually meet the light of the projector? No scene can be made like that. So that's how we have to step out of this realm of time and space.

Will this get in the way, me seeing this is light? Will that get in the way of going to the projector? Does it stop you from going inside?

Inside what? Inside you. Inside you, there are many layers. Okay, where do you go? If you were to imagine a tree, you say, 'I imagine it in my head,' but is it really in your head? What is that space in which you imagine? Then you follow up and say, 'Okay, where is the emotion that you see?' Suppose that tree reminds you of something in your childhood; then in which space do you experience the emotion of nostalgia? Then you go deeper and you say, 'There's a sense of being, there's a presence about me.' Is that in time and space? Even if it is not palpable to you, you recognize an area within yourself—'area' is the wrong word to use—but that within yourself which is not time.

Like this also, I have been meaning to ask you, in the sense that if you say thought is one layer, emotion is one layer, etc., etc., now I can't simultaneously see all the layers unless they're in the same space.

You can feel the anger and the thought of resentment at the same time. So they're in the same space. Everything is inside you. So inside you is one space. Yes. Okay, so then let's go one step deeper. That which perceives all of this, is it in the same space? Where is that? How do you know it is not in the same space?

I can't perceive it. I can't perceive it. Yes, but you still know that just because you can't perceive something, you can't conclude that it's not in the same space. Like, it's not a denial that there is a perceiver.

It's not denied, exactly. So you're concluding that there is a perceiving at least happening, but it is not in the same space, to use the word, as thoughts and emotions and imagination and memory. Yes. Are you saying it's a different space then? Okay, so does it have to be in a space? This can't be, because all this is happening in one space because I notice my thoughts, emotions, I can see the world outside—all of this is one space. But the perceiver is not here, or that which is witnessing all of this is not here. So that must be in some other space. But do we have any valid evidence to prove that that one is in any space? Or is it just the mind's limitation to make that which is not in any space have to be in a space? When you're talking about the projector also, you mean this, and it's not in another space? You tell me. When you say outside, outside you mean exactly... no, you tell me whether that perceiver is in another space or it is spaceless. And what is the basis of that conclusion?

It will take some time.

It's a beautiful contemplation. And I know we switch gears really fast from the love for God to this insight which is beyond imagination, beyond anything we can fathom, but actually both go hand in hand in a way. We can see that perceiving is better because the 'Earth' implies a... like somebody reminding me of the old satsang we used to have, which is fun: every movie is already made. Okay, so her mind thinks that the movie has to be frame one, frame two, frame three, frame four, frame five. But remember that Consciousness is all there is. Now, in all there is, will there be only frame one, frame two, frame three, frame four? No. From every frame, there will be infinite other frames, and every one of those frames will be an infinite other frames. So is the movie already made? Yes, but with infinitely infinite frames. Which one will we traverse through with our attention? That is what we have to see.

So if you read the comic book into random frames like that, it will seem like a different story. It's kind of your own perception already. Everything is all there is. All there is, you see. All there is means every possibility there is, is. And from this, the movie is already made—does that come in like... or is it an excuse?

An excuse depends how you use it. Many times it's an excuse. This predetermination many times is a big excuse to just like, 'If I am going to inquire, then I'll inquire. If I'm not going to inquire, then I'll not inquire. If I'm going to be in satsang, it's already written I'm in satsang.' Of course it's already written because everything is already written. Is it? As long as... that's why Bhagavan told us very clearly: as long as it feels like we have a choice, we must make the choice. As long as we feel that we have a choice, we must make the choice to let go of the false, to drop Avidya. That's why N said, 'No, we must follow God's will.' Why was his main point that we must follow God's will? It's going to happen, it's going to happen. If it's God's will, we'll follow God's will. What is the need to tell us that, you see?

So here we cannot grasp that which is so far beyond. Here we have to accept that at some level we are like stupid creatures whose intellectual capacities are very limited compared to the one who is projecting this world and all the universes. And yet in his mercy and grace, he has given us access to something deeper than our intellect, which is here in the heart, which is intuitive. You see, that's why sages have written books like the Yoga Vashistha, which are so many hundreds of years back, and now people are calling these kind of movies the cutting-edge movies with Multiverse theory and all this—dreams within dreams within dreams, and actually the final dream is the reality and everything else was the dream. It's all... that's why that scripture is amazing, because intuitively the sages had access to the greater insight. And why do we enjoy these movies? At least some of us do. Because completely nonsensical actually at some level, and something is attracted to these movies somewhere. The notion of infinity is attractive to us as well. Exactly. Everything, my child, everything actually—everything can be an excuse or it can be a deepening. Sages are like that. That's where they get this, because it's that's...

That book, that scripture is amazing because intuitively the sages had access to the greater insight. And why do we enjoy these movies? At least some of us do, completely, because they are completely nonsensical actually at some level, and something is attracted to these movies. Somewhere the notion of infinity is attracted to us as well. Exactly everything, my child. Everything, actually. Everything can be an excuse or it can be a deepening. Sages are like that. That's where they get this. It's because it's done, it's made, it's what it is, and they can just sit with God. Yeah, but you know, that's why the very beginning of the Yoga Vasistha, if you all read it, what does it say? Yes, that's the first part. But right at the very beginning, somewhere it says, either in the preface or in the very beginning, it says without effort nothing is going to happen. Because that tendency is there in all of us to just look at this and say, 'Oh, if it's going to happen, it's going to happen.' And that one line is completely contradictory to the rest of the book, and yet it is the first line, at least the way I remember it.

Very conveniently, Father. Recently I remember that there was a book called Panchatantra stories that also has a similar structure where a cow has a story going on with a dog or something, then they will say, 'Don't you know this in the story?' Then they narrate the story. In that story, there will be a similar situation. So like five layers of stories happening. So that was for kids, exactly as intended. But even there, the inception... like before, when we used to do these contemplations, I used to find it very frustrating in the sense that if I'm blind and you keep telling me how beautiful the Taj is, every description you give in lucid detail only gets me more and more frustrated because I can't see it.

Did I ever say that you can't see it?

It's been my experience that I can't meet it.

So, suppose that you are actually blind, then nobody should tell you about the Taj, how it looks, unless you ask. But because you are not blind, it is given to you as milestones, as inspiration, as ways to look. And of course, when we are trying to grasp and we don't get it, then it can be frustrating. It doesn't mean we have to stop trying.

I thought this is some justification I came up with. I thought you switched to the faith, the bhakti, prayer, servitude, all that, so as to awaken that eye, to make that visible what we are blind to, to open my eyes in a way. The Atma, the light of Atma—it's only then you can meet it. That's how I interpreted how you switched. And I have this resistance to going the previous way and I don't know what to do.

I just... my hope is, my prayer of course is, that it worked in this sort of way for all of you. But if you were to ask me the reason, I have no idea. It was not a planned thing that now we'll speak more on this way or that way. This may be the last like that. Tomorrow onward, in fact, I've been feeling to do the Ashtavakra Gita again. So maybe after Ashtavakra Ji comes, he'll completely change things around again. But it was maybe the Atma's plan.

But so I do have the eyes even without the Atma? Without the Atma I do have the eyes?

No. Even that time, I'm sure, or at least I hope, I said often enough that only through the grace of the Atma, through the grace of the... in fact, that is why right from the beginning we called this Atma Sakshatkara.

So is there something different I should do from like before? Contemplations and... I don't know what.

Both parts. If it seems like two different parts, I can say that I can understand how it may be seeming like that, but both are valid. Then I cannot put one above the other and I cannot say because this is the present expression, then this must be higher or lower. Anyway, let's lose this category of higher or lower. Anywhere, we all in the modern world, we are too obsessed with 'my path is the highest path' and everything. That's insulting to God in some way. Can any path that leads to God not be high? And how is it that the path that we are on always ends up being the highest? We must not have these kind of fallacies. Please just see what Grace is bringing us auspiciously from our heart is the highest for us in this moment. You cannot say forever, you cannot say for others, but if it is coming from your heart, if it is coming from the Atma within, it is the best for you at this point of time.

Mine was more like: should I do it differently from how I used to do it before?

Yes, being you're fine. Okay? Which you are. It's good. To the throne room of God beyond time and space is inside you, within the heart temple. I was telling one child that that throne itself could be made of so many universes where He sits. Like after one of the retreats, some of you were there, then after a few days of the retreat, I start just losing it. So we were just sitting in my room, it was a little late at night also. So as it gets later, I become more and more crazy. So that night I was telling some of you that, you know, like we're drinking this water like this, one day we may drink galaxies like this. Like we are meeting each other, just it looks like we have one head, and one day we may meet each other with a million heads. Ramblings of a madman, probably, but at least this much is clear to me: that our worldview is too limited because we are too not used to, or scared to, explore that which is beyond just this light and sound. True, way different. Should we read a bit of the... some children really struggling with the... look at... leave wants to come. B can come. Hello, can you hear me?

Yes, yes. If you want to close, it's okay. I can also speak next time. I had to run out for a moment so I missed what you said the last few moments. Yeah, I just wanted to connect a bit with you and I don't know, somehow I find it hard to be consistent although I feel I'm really trying. But yeah, I don't know what to do about this. Like sometimes I feel like I really need to take a break also, and I feel it comes from my heart because I go into some crazy trying and then I just have to just, you know, just go for a walk, just speak with some friends and don't try so hard. So I don't know. I think it's also okay like this, but I wish I could be more consistent, like to really do it in a good way, the prayer, the... I don't know.

Yeah, I feel the same way, that I feel like I wish I could be more consistent. So I'm starting... something very beautiful I heard and I want to tell all of you is from Saint Sarah. She said that when you are inspired divinely and you know it is divine inspiration, then you must give it your best. So I feel like that simple line is very life-changing because there are many things which I feel like come from my heart and I just let them go. So this morning it came to my heart that I have to spend at least four hours every day in focused prayer, which means that no... like unceasing prayer has to go on, but I felt inspired in my heart to every day, preferably eyes closed, no distraction, find four hours to just pray. And today, by God's grace, it happened. It's not going to be easy, of course, with satsang, with family, with work, with all of those things, with Advait now. But that is the guidance I got from her. So I want to follow that and I am saying that to all of you is that all of you are welcome to join, whoever feels like they want to take on this difficult-sounding project to find four hours. So I was just feeling that, can 4:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. work? You just do it in one shot. And then I remember that on alternate days at 6:30 I have Advait duty to play with him and take him for a bit of a walk. So let's see how it works. So today it was 6:00 to 8:00, two hours happened, and then one hour in one shot, and then two half-an-hour slots happened. But I feel like it will be very beautiful. Just chant. So what I did today is that I spent the first two hours chanting, doing the ideas, and then the one hour was in quiet communion with God, just like no mind but full God's presence. And some things were being said, like I was saying some things and I was hearing the answers that I needed to hear. And then the other part was half... the other two half-an-hour slots was half and half between just communicating with God and chanting, praying the ideas. But just start with the ideas. Good if you want to start with one hour, do one hour, two hours, whatever. But I feel like that dedicated focused time will give you the momentum to do the unceasing prayer throughout the day. And I can see that for some of you it's just become a bit like, 'Yeah, I have to pray all the time, just I'm praying, it's happening, it's not happening.' It's a bit casual like that. So if you can dedicate some focused time only to God, at least that's the inspiration here. And I'm not saying all of you have to do it, but I would love it if you did. It's quite sublime. It's quite sublime to just... and Grace makes the time somehow. At least so far. I should not speak too soon, let's see how tomorrow is, but today Grace just made the time. So like that. So in that, in these ways, then we get inspired from somewhere and we try to follow and we fail, and then we get up again, and then we fail again, and then we get up again. It's all right, because I sense from your report that there is not a lack of effort. So I feel you're fine.

Can I say a bit more about it? Because I feel I shared a bit before with you, like there are some energies inside or something very tight and dense, and sometimes when I pray I feel there is no true power in my inner voice, you know, like this. So I don't know. Yeah, and it's very difficult. Like I'm saying the prayer where I feel so blocked and like, no, cannot connect to my heart or to God. And as I'm saying, sometimes these energies get more tight and then it's very hard to go on because it feels like, I don't know, just go on like this. And just one simple thing you can do is remember this moment how you're communicating now. That's how you need to pray.

Yeah, but it's not easy. Like it feels not easy. Sometimes in one hour maybe two times it feels like it comes from my heart, you know, like the rest is just mechanical or like pushing through this.

So just start with the sense that... what is the prayer that you're doing? The Jesus prayer?

Yeah.

Yeah, so just start with the sense that He's with you. Is He? And that you're just communicating with Him.

Yeah, I have a lot of ideas about myself, like I'm not... I'm bad, I'm not connected to God, you know. I don't know, I don't even know how to explain it. But yeah, I do my best. That's what I feel, I'm doing my best.

It's good, my child. I feel like you're doing just like me anyway. It's not... there's not much difference between how we are praying. So what you could also do is that if these thoughts come about 'I'm bad, I'm like this, I'm not connected,' so just start by saying to God, saying to Jesus, all of these things.

There's a feeling of being fake that I can't distinguish if it's true or not. Like I feel fake when I pray, like it's not genuine, but it's the best I can do. I don't know.

Yes, so this also you can tell me, of course, it's very good. But when you start your prayer, then just say, 'Father, I just feel like I'm so fake. I don't do the prayer properly. I'm just doing lip service. I don't even know if I know how to pray, but I'm here and I want to fully be Yours. Please help me, please bless me, because without Your love, Your light, Your guidance, I cannot do this.' Then you can just start your prayer after that. And then as you're praying, so you're doing the Jesus prayer, so you say, 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.' You can do it with your breath or just like this is fine. And in the middle, if your mind is getting active again and saying you have this, this is wrong with you, then just communicate with Him again saying, 'Father, I...'

If you feel like you cannot do this, then you can just start your prayer after that. And then as you're praying, so you're doing the Jesus prayer, so you say: 'Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. Bless my heart with the light of spirit.' Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. And you can do it with your breath or just like this is fine. And in the middle, if your mind is getting active again and saying you have this, this is wrong with you, then just communicate with him again saying, 'Father, I'm trying to pray but these thoughts are distracting me. I bring them to you because they tempt me, the world tempts me.' So then in this way your relationship with him is deepening and you're not leaving your prayer actually. Even though your mind tries, you take everything back to him.

So whether we are doing the Ram prayer, the Krishna prayer, the Shiva prayer, then we pray to Ram Ji like this, to Krishna Ji like this, to Allah like this, to whichever aspect, whichever name of God we resonate with, we hand over everything to him. So in this way we are actually in our prayer deepening our relationship with God and we are deepening our surrender with him. And we go like little children; whatever problems we have also we keep giving to him, we offer to him. And then you don't leave your prayer in this process. Whatever the mind throws at you, take it to God.

And many times I feel like I'm doing it mechanically. I feel like it's not really sincere. Is it okay to do it like that, no? To just do it my best? Because sometimes it really feels impossible to do it differently and I do something at least.

It's okay. We all learning, we all going through the process. That's okay. Yeah, okay, that's fine, that's fine.

And it's okay if I do it in my own language? Because that's how I learned it.

Of course, of course, of course. Okay, God knows every language so you don't have to worry. Let's go to Nupur.

After many years, I just wanted to say a huge thank you, Father, for bringing this child back in your love. It's just the most divine homecoming that's happened. Just so grateful, so grateful.

I'm so happy. I'm so happy to see you in Satsang. Last few times you're here, I'm so happy. Very, very good, very, very good. Bless, bless you so much.

Thank you, Father. I just wanted to share, it was complete. You asked the question, 'Is God real?' today, and that was... I felt his hand bring me to you, Father. Because in June I was in Sahaja, and after leaving Sahaja, it was beautiful, but then when Guruji says that the mind comes, and there was this intense feeling of aloneness. And I'm a huge bhakta of Sai Baba, so I asked Sai Baba that when you say 'Tu Hi,' then why am I feeling this aloneness? And Father, he just literally in that moment something changed and he brought me to your Satsang. I don't know how it happened and it was just love and love, Father.

In fact, the first Satsang that came up in my search was Atma Darshan Samadhi. And from that I have been just chanting, and I didn't know it's called ADS. So I was like, I thought it's some Greek prayer and I was like... I didn't know that Atma Darshan Samadhi is ADS. So yesterday I was looking for A-D-I-U-S, I was actually wondering what that was. But yeah, I thought it's maybe that. Then I just realized now when Samaya mentioned that, is it ADS? And it all makes sense to me. It's just, if it's not God, then who it is that's answering all my questions, Father? And it's just so beautifully...

It is him, it is him. Very good.

I'm so grateful, Father. Just thank you so much for all your grace.

Thank you. So happy, so happy. Welcome back. Thank you. All my love, all my blessing.

Love you, Father. Thank you.

Love you too.