Whatever Door Gets You Into God’s Temple, Use It - 18th December 2023

So a thought comes. Can any thought compel you to leave? So is it the habit of the mind, or is that habit mine? The habit itself is the mind. Okay, what I'm doing is I'm making a distinction between the mind's play of creating thoughts, you see? And what I'm trying to avoid is a notion that that has to stop for me to be free. Because the habit is in the mind, the mind will keep producing. And as long as it keeps producing these thoughts, till then I have no option? But it's not like that. It may keep producing, and it can produce them on its conveyor belt, but to pick up or not to pick up is a power that you have as an expression of Consciousness itself. Nobody can take that power away from you.

So if someone who is addicted to, say, Chinese food, then when they're walking around, they just... if they spot a place which is serving Chinese food, they're just like, 'See, it's their fault. Why do they have these places? I'm stuck now, I have to go and eat. Who asked them to open that restaurant?' But nobody can force you to go in. And if this was not true, then really, what are we all talking about? Then the human condition is that of mental slavery, and our freedom depends on when the mind decides to stop. So the fact is that you can decide to stop. You can decide to stop.

So, and when you find that the greater peace is to be empty, the greater place is to be in God's light, then the mind will not have it so easy. And it will be possible for you to just, most of the time... 100%? Forget about that notion of 100% itself, which the mind will use. So that is the simplicity of what is being shared. And there insight is there, love is there, following His will—all of that is naturally there. But most of us end up reporting because it seems so strong. The addiction to Chinese food seems so strong that we say, 'Give me something, tie me to my heart so I don't go into the marketplace at all. Could you make it so that I could be tied at home in my true place, and then I would not see the Chinese restaurant only?'

So then so many different practices and sadhanas have been given for that. So then one of the simplest, or probably the simplest, is to say the prayer or chant the name of God. Because what happens when you chant? Suppose you just... you don't even know a prayer, you are new to spirituality, you just... someone told you, 'Chant the name of Ram.' So, just... difficult? It's very easy. Very easy, at least relatively speaking. You have this anchor. You're anchored in. Now some will say that, 'My attention still goes to thoughts, my interest still goes to other things.' So I may be saying 'Ram, Ram,' but my mind is saying 'Hakka noodles, fried rice.' So it's just going over there.

So then the sages said, 'Okay, do one thing. Get one more aspect of you involved.' Because if you get two aspects of yourself involved, that's the extent of your attention usually. Take a mala in your hand, keep moving your finger like this. Now you're doing this and you're chanting. Now you have hardly any attention left to go towards the distraction, go towards the thoughts. So the mala is at the most gross level, but it is very beautiful. The prayer, the chant, the mantra is at a subtler level. These anchor you to your heart. And there may come a point that your prayer becomes so deep that you naturally remain empty.

So the first thing is that with the support of God's name, to remain with God is easier. It uses all the faculties, or more faculties that we have available to us, and therefore we are less easily distracted. There may come a point that you've reached where just to remain naturally empty is quite effortless. For those for whom naturally remaining empty is effortless, even for them to say the name of God is a joy. If you're naturally empty and it arises in you, or you are with a Satsang member and collectively you say, 'Let's chant Ram,' it's a joy. It's beautiful because it doesn't impede your emptiness in any way. It doesn't impede God's presence in any way. So from within your heart, the chanting can happen.

But I'd be a little concerned if you say, 'I'm open and empty, but I don't want to chant, I don't like it. I don't want to pray, I don't like it.' You may not say the 'I don't like it' part. So what may be happening then is that in the guise of open and empty, it's like saying that, 'Oh, I want to run, but I don't want to wear the best shoes which are supportive for running.' You may run barefoot, and that is fine, but you would not have a problem with also wearing the shoes which should make it easier. What could be happening is that in the guise of remaining open and empty, the mind is telling you subtle stories and narratives. And when you are chanting like this, then those cannot be hidden because you notice the flow of the chant; it stops if you go.

And suddenly it becomes 'noodles,' then you notice that, as opposed to when you're thinking that you're open and empty, but you're just like, 'I don't like that one very much. I don't know why they said that to me. I think this is better than that.' But very quietly the mind is doing the like mild hypnosis. 'Quiet, quiet, we are all open and empty like that. What do you think about this?' But that won't be possible if you're really doing 'Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna.' And 'I don't like...' you'll notice it, you see? So what I'm saying is not that we must not be effortlessly open and empty. What I'm saying is that Grace is showing me that if there is resistance to prayer or chanting, that can only come because the mind is making positions even about openness and emptiness.

So, and the holy words of the prayer itself may bring you to a point where there is nothing at all. You may start at a point where you cannot locate a 'me,' you cannot find distinctions between outside and the inside, cannot say which is you and which is the other. You may come to a point where the world itself may not be perceived, maybe just your breath is perceived. Then may come a point where only a Being is shining in its own unique way—don't imagine a shining, it's a unique, unperceived perceiving in a way. You may come to a point where even that finishes, and actually you may notice that your anchor point may change organically.

The anchor may change to your breath. The anchor may change to what seemed like it started off as a mental chanting, you see, becomes a heart chanting because your heart loves to chant the name of God, and that is called a japa. It's just happening somewhere. You say you are not doing it, but it's still happening. That is more 'you' doing it than the previous, but it's fine. And there may come a point where all of that goes away and you're just anchored in unconditional love. Remaining empty and anchored in the unconditional love, you may come to the recognition and remain in the recognition of yourself again. Yes, that is okay.

So I must make that point. The point of coming to these stages where the world dissolves, where even the breath may dissolve sometimes, without grasping at them, without making them accomplishments, is that self-recognition is very natural like that. So if you just remain like that, anchored in the unconditional love in your heart, usually you will go from the gross to the subtle. Usually you will start off with the prayer or the chant and then be able to remain like this also. Don't make it about any accomplishment, that 'I do the most subtle' or 'I am still stuck because I'm doing the most gross.' This is all equally beautiful; just the mechanics and the modes are a little different.

Then you may come to a point where you feel that even the anchor of love is left aside, where it's still palpable, but your heart craves only for the darshan of God, the darshan of the Being within you, and only He remains. Only the presence remains. And on coming to this recognition, your teacher may say, 'Now your life has begun. Life has really started,' because you met. In your heart, His presence is there in your heart, and it is the most pristine discovery that anyone can ever make. The question may be, 'Does it have to be in that order that we come to God?' No, it doesn't have to be in that order, but this is probably the most approachable.

You don't have to innovate for your pride. You don't have to do it your way. The whole thing is letting go of your way. So you must be very clear that it is coming from your heart; otherwise, the mind will keep tricking you and distracting you. So to come to this point where only He is, only His presence is, and at that point you may say, 'My presence is,' 'I am,' or 'He is God.' You must remain anchored to this in whichever way that we can. So when the sages made the bhajan that 'will not leave you, come what may,' it was very literal—that this inner insight, you remain in the light of that, you remain in the presence of that, come what may. It's not just like a thing we say in the world.

From your heart, otherwise the mind will keep tricking you and distracting you. So to come to this point where only He is, only His presence is—and at that point you may say 'my presence is,' 'I am,' or 'He is God'—you must remain anchored to this in whichever way that we can. So when the sages made the vow that 'I will not leave you, come what may,' it was very literal. That this inner insight, you remain in the light of that, you remain in the presence of that, come what may. It's not just like a thing we say in the world, not a romantic gesture. 'I will not leave you; you can leave if you want.' Is it? No, it is a deep commitment. It is a deep faith that what you have found, or what you are finding, is the highest and you must not leave that. Remain with that. Let whatever happen on the outside—and outside includes every perception; outside is not just outside the eyes—you must not exchange Him for anything at all.

Then, remaining like that, if it is His grace, then there may come a point where you come to a sheer nothingness. You cannot even say that this is the light of being because it is sheer luminal, non-phenomenal insight. It is not an empty nothing; it is a no-thing which is the absolute reality. And this is purely intuitive. You cannot even call this light, you cannot call it darkness, you cannot say being or not being. What is the only distinction between this and the sleep state? If you notice, there's just the tiniest sliver of weight that remains, but you can't really even locate it, but you recognize that you're not asleep. There's nothing that you can imagine; you just have to come to the non-phenomenal taste of it, the non-phenomenal experience of it. That is the discovery of the recognition, the realization of the Self, the Absolute.

So suppose that you say that, 'Okay, none of this to me... my temperament is different. As you are speaking, I'm getting irritated. I don't know, I don't like any of this.' Then you must ask yourself: Who? Who you are? Who am I? I could have started with the whole conversation in that way, saying we must ask ourselves 'Who am I?' And if none of that appeals to you, you're getting irritated, then I could have said chant and pray and come to love and come to God. So 'Who am I?' is very direct, it's very straightforward, but you have to be strong because it does not give you the anchors. You ask yourself 'Who am I?' and what is Bhagavan's guidance? A thought will try to answer. You ask yourself, 'Who is witnessing that thought?' and then an answer may come: 'I am.' So then you say, 'Who is this I?' The answer will not be found in the thought, but it will lead you to the same insight. 'I am,' you will recognize. And then that which is aware even of 'I am,' you will recognize.

And you don't have to take a call. You don't have to say, 'I'm a Jnani or a Bhakta' or 'my temperament is like that,' because this that can change hour by hour. You don't have to define your way because both are made for you only. Who are they made for if not you? So whatever appeals to you at the moment, without any mental duality and conflict and confusion. If you got jaded with the question 'Who am I?', you've been doing it the wrong way, or some stupid idea is there that 'it doesn't work for me' or whatever. Then ask yourself: Are you aware now? Am I aware now? Who's aware of perception? Can I stop being? Any of these questions. The point is to take a question that can be answered only intuitively, just like a Zen koan. That is the power of the Zen koan, that you can only answer them intuitively. The mind says, 'Oh, that means there's no answer.' Of course there is, but your answer is only there in intuition where the realm of time and space either doesn't exist or is very different.

So the path of Jnana Yoga is to take that which can be contemplated in the true place of knowledge, which is not the intellect or the mind, the true seat of Atma Gyan. So you may find that while you do the inquiry, you may rest in the sense 'I am' in the same way. Through Vipa Samadhi, you may come to a sheer nothingness in the same way. So whether you dive down the path of insight or of love and servitude of devotion, you will meet Him in this way. And to meet Him is the most important. Remember that it has nothing to do with what happens to you as a result of any of this. What is left of you will be left humble, faithful, and loving, not proud, self-important, and full of boundary-creating notions.

And the good news is that whichever so-called path you seem to choose, both lead to the flowering of your intuitive heart, your Holy Spirit within, the Satguru presence within. Because it is not possible to come to God's light, or that which is aware even of Consciousness, through any other means, through any other instrument but your heart. So that must flower. It must be kept alive, a light. Now in our hearts, we recognize very well what keeps it alight and what makes it dull, isn't it? Who feels confused about this? Actually, you know in your heart if you're being selfish. You know in your heart what makes you all see and what makes you open and secret. So this light must shine in your heart, the light of intuitive insight. And don't give anything that I've said to your mind, but try what I'm saying. What I've said, nothing is difficult about it. And more than this, you probably don't even need to understand. You're just going to the wrong instrument. 'I need to make sense of this.' You don't. What is resisting is only that because you're shifting houses. It is only withdrawal symptoms. You're shifting from head to heart. So the head is going to say, 'But something... but how this? Why this?' Shift, shift, shift. I'm just the messenger of this home extending an invitation: Come, come, it's nicer here.

Only in the mind can there be a block. Except in the mind. And once you believe the idea there is a block from you, you start visualizing. 'Can't see you, can't hear you.' Where is the block? The mind will obviously try to create a block even by saying, 'There's a block from you.' You play baseball in Argentina or no? Only football? So give it one Messi kick. Give it one Messi kick and the notion 'block'... from who is saying that? I used to play this exercise and then someone told me that Papaji told them the same exercise because apparently Papaji also used to love watching cricket, and I used to love watching in those days. So I gave everyone this exercise one day where just pretend as if inside you're waiting with the cricket bat, and then the next thought comes, just hit it out of the park. Then next thought comes, just hit it out of the park. And we did this actually in Satsang for half an hour or something, very early days. The next day or that evening someone told me, 'Did you hear Papaji do this exercise?' No, no, it just came to me in Satsang. So he also used to do the same, say 'I love cricket because just like that you have to hit the thoughts like that.' So the thought comes, 'It doesn't seem as possible, but it can't work, come on let's be...' then block, block... just a whisper in the head. Scoop! Yes or no? Yeah.

The body doesn't distract. It can experience pain, sensations, tummy things, whatever it's experiencing. So all that is experience; that doesn't take away anything from what I'm saying. The mind uses that and says, 'See, even now your body is also...' Don't let it finish this midway list. Don't finish any sentence. No finishing any sentence in the midway. Let it do some hard work. How long will you dance to its tune? Let it do some hard work. Let it come up with some unique thought which you have to hear the whole sentence like, 'This I haven't heard before, I want to really at least let it try and produce some unique fun stuff like that.' It's very limited in its way because I've just spoken about God and that absolute self-realization, and the mind has what to offer us? Basically the message is 'But me? But what about me?' In the sense 'but me,' somewhere it wants to still plant a flag for itself and say, 'But me? Yes, yes, all this is very good, but...' Try, try, try. Wait, just like you're taking a penalty and then the thought comes, the ball is there, just the point is to miss the goal, throw it out into the crowd. You can either choose your thought or you can live the way I'm literally imploring you to live, if not begging.

When one lives more in the... how... when one is in one's own presence and one is able to see this and play this wonderful game of sending... I mean, of first seeing them and then sending them on their way because it's possible the deeper one... but then I've seen an agreement with myself that even though one may do that, then there are these kind of what we have... I've heard this term in here very often, this term called 'mind attack.' Now I don't understand how is it that for one who is practicing like this, that then the mind, who we are then saying is that he's powerless and we are living also this, we are practicing also this, and we are really knowing this that it's powerless and it's our attention, yet we really become like attacked by it?

Yes, so this is the strangeness of it, that although it is very natural, very organic, very innocent to just live in the heart, you see, but I may go as far as to say that nobody that I am aware of lived like that 100%. That is the nature of this play, this design, where using the circumstantial evidence of perception, the mind manages to convince us about things. And everything that it manages to convince us is an attack on us because the truth is not like that. So every lie it is able to sell is an attack. Attack on what? The truth. And if you're on the side of the truth or you are the truth, then it is an attack on you like that. Nobody escapes this force field 100%, the gravitational force. It does this gorilla... it may even seem like, 'Huh? Gone. Gone. Gone.' And then something... it's like this, it's like this... 'How can... ah, got you!'

And this span could be seconds—that's I'm acting out very badly—could be seconds, minutes, days, months, years. We cannot see it; it hides everywhere. Especially if I noticed that you're quite empty, then also it'll try to sell you pride. 'Does this mean that you're free now?' You see? And because we chase freedom for so long, a question like that may still... we don't recognize the attack in it. We feel like this is actually being helpful. 'Does this mean that I'm free? Finally free?' Because you suffered for so long and then chased, as a spiritual seeker, chased freedom for so long. When it tempts you with those ideas, you feel like, 'Yeah, I've been actually quite empty for the last two, three months, must be freedom.' Boom! It's tricky, tricky. And it seems quite harmless, seems so harmless. 'It is helping me contemplate: am I free?' But what has succeeded in doing, if you buy into the story, is bringing you back into a shape. Not a real shape, but a believed shape. And that shape is called the ego.

You were just happy in God's presence like an innocent child following His inner promptings, His nudges, just living in such a simple way. And that itself it will use to make you proud. For you know, the most devious mind attacks are the camouflage ones in the guise of being helpful. Soon you are sitting on a position you don't even realize, but it's true: 'I am free,' with your texture changed. So narratives, especially the beautiful sounding ones, are the most devious tricks of the mind. So what did Kabir Ji mean when he said that Maya is the corest? And he even said that in the devotion of a devotee it may hide. It's a very potent sentence. How? In the devotion of a devotee it may hide. How would it do that? By making you take a position: 'But I'm just a devotee. I'm a devotee. I'm really a devotee to God.' Even that narrative. Come to... and your teacher saying, 'Can we look at it like this?' You saying, 'No, no, I would rather look at it my way.' That's your subtle ways of pride. You want to frame it in your frame of reference, and in that frame of reference you may pick up a shape of being.

In the devotion of a devotee, it may hide. It's a very potent sentence. How, in the devotion of a devotee, it may hide? How would it do that? By making you take a position: 'But I'm just a devotee. I'm a devotee. I'm really a devotee to God.' Even that narrative comes to you, and your teacher is saying, 'Can we look at it like this?' and you are saying, 'No, no, I would rather look at it my way.' That's your subtle ways of pride. You want to frame it in your frame of reference, and in that frame of reference, you may pick up a shape of being somebody again. It's very, very tricky. And those who are having beautiful true insights, they are in that pregnant state of delivering a baby, so they need to be in intensive care in some sense, because this is the time where the mind will come and try and make a shape out of you. It is not out of tricks; it knows all this very well. That's why some book like The Screwtape Letters is very good. C.S. Lewis has really looked at it in such a minute way—how it can trick you. It's called The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis. Very, very nice.

There's a story in that. There's like an older version of the mind which is coaching a younger version of the mind—they would call them demons or something. So he's writing, Screwtape is writing—the older one is Screwtape, the younger one is Wormwood. So he's saying that, you know, what happened is that this one, he was really contemplating deeply one day and he was coming to some great revelations, and I started to worry whether I'm losing him. So I sent a thought his way saying, 'This is all very good, we're doing so well. What do you feel about a bite of lunch?' And this man, he says, 'Yeah, I feel like I've been at it in the library reading, contemplating for so long. Let me grab a bite and then I'll come back.' And something which was just about to reveal itself, then during lunch he forgot about the whole thing. It's very, very tricky. But Grace also blesses us with a greater sensitivity. We are able to notice thought patterns and thought invitations that we never saw before. Do all of you see how you're observing your mind much more clearly now, isn't it, than before? Especially if you're trying to chant or pray, you'll see how it tries to impede you.

I was hoping you could kind of guide me through this exploration. When you posted that thing onto the group, the prayer excerpt from the conversations, it really created a lot of resistance in me because although prayers come spontaneously sometimes, I'm not one that prays much. I generally take the Advaita path of just, you know, if God blesses me with presence, to really hold on. And when it goes, I just, you know, occasionally prayers come for it to come back, but I'm not one that chants or prays. And that excerpt kind of said, you know, that means your mind is fooling you. But sincerely in my heart, I feel like there are pockets of presence where beautiful explorations happen and it's not a trick. So I have faith in that, and I know not every statement is like stamped in stone, but there is this resistance that arose. So there's something there which I want to explore with you.

So you're saying that there are pockets of presence. What impedes those pockets from being just persistent presence?

Just the engaging with the mind, and when the pull is very strong, just getting pulled out and gone.

So notice if the prayer—and if it is, I don't know if you heard the concept, but I introduced it today as well—where there's something called ajapa-japa. Ajapa-japa means that you are no longer doing the prayer, you are no longer doing the chanting, but your heart itself is doing it. So if your intuition loves to pray, and our intuition is one, and if my heart loves to pray—I can't imagine a heart which doesn't love to pray—then especially if there is resistance coming, what would that point to? And you're not the only one; resistance is coming for many of you. So who is making the resistance? And my explanation was for that: that if you are just in presence, then would the mind have more chance or lesser chance than if you are in presence and there's a constant prayer or 'Allah, Allah, Allah'? Is presence easier or more difficult? And this is really not up for debate because for thousands and thousands of years it's been made clear that it is easier with prayer to remain in God's presence, or with a mantra to remain in God's presence.

You mentioned that—I forgot the term you used.

Yeah, so what can happen is that what may seem very natural may be a conclusion that the mind is making, saying, 'But what is natural for me is this.' But you have to be careful whether that conclusion is coming from the heart or the mind. For the mind to give up on the mind is not natural, and it will seem initially like there is some resistance that you have to work through some things to come to that unimpeded flow. So I would be concerned or I would be a bit suspicious if someone told me that they can be more in presence without any anchor than with. Of course you can be, I hope, and that is my blessing for all of you, that you may remain in presence without any aid. But to tell me that the aid gets in the way, something is pulling. That's what I wrote in the note also.

Can I share something on that point?

So just give me a sense firstly: do you feel like you're living mostly empty and in the present throughout a 24-hour period?

No.

Then how much approximately? We don't have to be too quantitative about it.

Maybe full on one hour. Even that maybe more, 30 minutes.

Okay, so we have to make that to start with. That must be the exception. Maybe 30 minutes on a day you are up in the mind. Let's start the other way.

Other way, I'm saying we have to make that to switch it.

Oh, you have to switch it to begin with, till there comes a point that even 30 minutes will seem like too much for the mind. Is that giving 30 minutes? What a foolish one I am that I give 30 minutes to the mind. Even that will seem like too much. Till even three minutes will seem like too much. Till even three thoughts will seem like too much. Then three thoughts in a week will seem like too much. So we have to do that. So what stops the 30 minutes from being 23 hours, forget about sleep state? So what stops that from becoming 16?

The power of belief and this engagement with belief.

Yeah, so why do you engage?

Because of this strong habit that's being broken slowly.

But if you were anchored in prayer, your breath, love—all of these beautiful tools—then would they not support you? Would they not serve as an aid to help you living in God's temple?

I think the temperament I've had in the past is I've definitely taken on methods and became a heavy seeker in using that method. However, I know that doesn't apply to everyone. Prayer can be used not as a method but as just this love for God, but the tendency within me is it becomes this—the seeker becomes very alive.

That is my job to fix. So just follow and don't let your mind fool you by making conclusions about yourself. Say, 'But you, this won't work for you because in the past...' Don't worry. As long as you keep coming to satsang, I'll keep an eye on you, make sure you're not getting caught. But your life has to be predominantly lived in God's presence. And thank you so much for your honesty, because you see, what is more concerning for me as your teacher is that if you were to say, 'Yeah, I'm empty all the time.' So thank you for being honest about it because I'm actually happy to sit at the feet of one who is empty all the time. What you could do to start with, because there in your eyes I can still see somebody in distance, is that pick anything, any name of God which resonates with you the most. Don't make it a practice, okay? Just see it once and return to emptiness. Then if you notice that the mind is bothering you, mean this back is it? Then say it once and leave it. So don't go 'Ram, Ram, Ram.' This is this. Then you'll notice something, something, something, and you may get caught because you're not constantly doing it, but it's okay to start with. But you'll notice—see, you've been in satsang long enough—so you'll notice at some point, maybe one minute, two minutes after the hypnosis starts, you notice, 'Oh, the mind is back. I'm caught up.' So then you say it. So in a day you may say it 20 times, 30 times, but it's a start and it doesn't seem that scary to the mind. So whatever appeals to you. It may even be something that resonates with you deeply to start with, maybe 'Love.' If there's a block like she's saying, it's too strong.

I think another thing—but how is this? Yes, very. So this, I don't want to offer this to everyone because many of your minds will pick that, but where I noticed that there's a real like block or something, so you can check with me and I can help you with that. It's seeming too scary to just always be in prayer. Just use it as a grenade. Mind has got you. Because I want everyone to really come to this in this way of unceasing prayer where the mind has no chance. Really, here the mind has many chances because you may notice only after five, ten minutes. You may not notice half the day is gone: 'Oh, I forgot to say the name of God.' But I can see the worry in his eyes. I need to start in this way. And strangely enough—okay, I'm not going to say—you may... okay, I'll say it. I've never been able to stop myself. So after the constant unceasing prayer, this may become your unceasing prayer, is that it may become wordless in this way. You may start it off with and then you're just standing in God's presence, you know, inward facing. Like it's said, antarmukhi, you just turned inwards and you're living in His presence and you're this empty most of the time. Things are happening, everything is going wrong, and then something if it grabs you, then you, because you're so sensitive now, you remember or your heart adds prayer if you want. You finish, come back.

Just contemplate this Father, thing about chanting. It starts off very well, starts off really well, feel you know, like it really silences the mind and connects and everything that you say. But after some time, after like maybe a day or so Father, the mind tries to make it an obsession. Like it says, 'Okay, now you're not chanting. Okay, now this—see this thought? Now you have to chant. What are you doing?' Like that. It's so feverish that it just goes on saying that you're missing God's name like that. And that's when I just...

So when you reach—like even to do it mechanically is better than not doing it, but to do it when you say 'Ram,' it must be an invocation, it must be a remembrance, it must be a surrender, all at the same time. And that comes naturally. So there's a difference between 'Ram, Ram, Ram' like that and 'Ram' heartfelt. So the more heartfelt it becomes, the less the mind will be able to trick you with this. So those who are really, really resisting it, do it this way. At least this much you can't be able to, saying God's name, can you? Which is what you got it. Maybe you start the day like that, you just say 'Hare Krishna,' then just in God's presence remain empty, because apparently you're all just empty naturally. So I'm very happy to hear. And you know, and then when you're not, because you won't be, then remember again 'Hare Krishna' as much devotion, love, feeling that you can muster.

Very related to what I think the last three, four questions have emphasized. I'm finding that the slip happens when the thoughts of the mind, stories that are happening, are heavily laced with desire, wanting an outcome basically. And other thoughts that are not so strongly laced with desire, you know, they can come but it's so easy to manage that. So on the desire or outcome-oriented thoughts, I'm trying to—I mean, I tell you what I've been trying for the last maybe month or so because a couple of them have come with strong force—and so just sitting with them and staring at them comfortably till after staring at them for long enough, it kind of evaporates.

The thoughts in the morning are heavily laced with desire, wanting an outcome basically, and other thoughts that are not so strongly laced with desire. You know, they can come but it's so easy to manage that. So on the desire or outcome-oriented thoughts, I'm trying to—I mean, I tell you what I've been trying for the last maybe month or so because a couple of them have come with strong force. And so, just sitting with them and staring at them comfortably until, after staring at them for long enough, it kind of evaporates or there's a realization that I don't know why I have this desire for this outcome even. And maybe the intellect or some part of me is willing to let it go, but it still comes in, right? So all I've been doing is just sitting and staring at it because I don't know what else to do. I don't know how to uproot it. And it is diminished; acceptance has come. The intensity of that desire is slowly diminished quite a bit, and I'm not taking it for granted because it can come back like a beast again. But is there some other way that you can point us to? And I don't know what I'm doing is the right way or whatever; it seems to be working but it's not easy. It hasn't been easy, but it's okay. I'm patient, let it take its time. But my main question is around uprooting. Yes, that. Thank you.

So there are two ways. The first way is to inquire into it. So, say, 'I really want this' or whatever the nature of the desire is. Every time you find yourself believing, see who is the 'I' who must get this and who must not. If we choose to inquire into it, then you must not leave the inquiry until, when the thought comes, it doesn't become laughable. You see, it'll become lighter and lighter to the point where it comes and it becomes almost like a comedic thing to say that which seems so important and serious to you. And so, if you just inquire into it and say, 'Who should have this?' or 'Who is...' you know, whatever the framing of the thought is, depending on that, see. So if you catch it with the inquiry and use it as a tool that way, then the mind itself will shudder from giving you that thought again because it doesn't want you to inquire.

The second way is just to drown it in the presence itself. Just drown it in the presence, saying that it is so. In facing heart-facing, saying it's almost like it is met with a force field of presence, a force field of love, a force field of Grace, which is all within you.

Something like that has been going on, and the bigger realization that's happened is that I can't afford to harbor any desire because I'm seeing the consequences. And like you've said before, a lot of us want to have this corner where we can keep some desires and it's okay, you know, it's not so bad. And the mind hates it that I have to let go of everything, right? And I think I'm finally making that turn. I don't know if I'll finish that turn, but I'm at that turn where, yeah.

Yes. And it may not even be something that happens—it's not happened here—that it's 100% free from desire of any sort. But at least that hiding in a corner thing, that has to stop. That has to be kept open and available with integrity for God to look at. We must not hide this from the presence. We must not make excuses for it. We must not hide our conditions, our vasanas, in a dark corner pretending that they don't exist, because they just keep festering there. And when they tempt you in, then they can seem a lot if they are kept like that. But if you kept it all in the open and said, 'Father, it's all here, it's all yours' with integrity, then it's really helpful. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and God's light is much better than that.

Can prayer be used to anchor oneself even during inquiry? Because it was good to note what you said today about inquiry.

Remind me one more thing before I answer this, my child. In the same way, if you really adhere to any prayer to start with—okay, I'm not going to leave you like that—but if you want something that you can use, you can also use the words of the inquiry and say, 'Who am I?' With integrity, you can't just... to really ask, 'Who am I?' And if you are caught up, you see, then it becomes empty. If you've been inquiring at least for some time, then it becomes quite empty for a while. And then when you find yourself caught up again, then again you would say, 'Who am I?' The mind is offering you, like you were saying, something specific; then you can just use that itself in your inquiry and say, 'Who wants this?' or 'Who is averse to this?' or whatever the framing is. You can use that. The point is to return to God's presence using whatever tools we have at our disposal.

You know what that question sounds to me like? It's like the best delicacy in the world is there, but we don't want that. We just like, 'Can I have some...' What are those biscuits which are tasteless? The Marie biscuit? Yes, yes. So that is the most important thing. So if the Marie biscuit gets you there, it's fine. Marie is the best! So those who love Marie can use Marie biscuit, digestive, whatever. We'll have one separate satsang to discuss and to conclude. I was talking to a smaller group and I felt like I'm really talking at a different layer only, so I have to really find a way to use... today I used Chinese food, at least that was helpful. So we can use, to start with, whatever gets you to God's presence.

Right. One day it may be so that you meet the name of God and I know how to say just that I can pray to Him is probably one of the things that makes being a human worthwhile compared to a plant or animal—that I can invoke Him and I know that it's a true invocation.

One day, one day if you stay with me, you will taste all of this also. But right now, what's most important is use whatever, stay in God's presence. That's more important. You're right, but the main thing right now is that. And if you have to pick between doors, as long as they lead to your heart temple, it's not so important which door you pick. But even the doors of His temple are so pristine. How to say? Even the doors of His temple are so pristine. Use whatever door you can at the moment. Just whatever. The point is to come, to come to His temple, come to His presence. Whatever gets you there, use it. It's fine. Just don't fall for the mind. Don't stay with the mind. Stay with this presence. Whatever works: inquiry, prayer, anything, breath, love, whatever you want to use. It's all good. It's all good. But it is here one day to share with all of you the beauty of the possibility of taking God's name. It's God's name.

It was good to note when you said today that during inquiry there is no anchor as such, you know. So like, these days there's been an unseeing.

The inquiry itself becomes an anchor. The question 'Who am I?' can be used as long as you are sincerely asking. You see, you could be a complete beginner in satsang, but if you sincerely ask 'Who am I?', what happens is that you go beyond the mind. Because the mind is an image-producing engine. We talked about this. So if you say 'banana, banana, orange, orange, elephant, elephant,' it comes. So it is designed to produce like that. You say, 'I will help you, I will help you.' But with a question like this, 'Who am I?', initially it may try: 'You are this one, you are Chennai, you are a person, you're a woman, what more do you want?' You see, like that. So you say, 'No, but who am I? Who is witnessing this world?' It doesn't have an answer.

And then it'll try various tricks to distract you, whatever. But if you stay with it, then you will recognize it's almost like you're calling home. You're discovering an aspect within yourself which has been lying unused. It's like you have a secret generator hidden in your basement, which is a unique power source which has been hidden and forgotten about. But when you use a question like that—and that's why I said just like a Zen koan which you cannot answer—you can try like this, like that, like this, like this, but a true Zen koan can only be answered intuitively. It has an answer, but the answer is not possible to compute, to intellectualize at all. It plays the same thing. In the same way, the question 'Who am I?' does the same thing. Or even 'Am I aware now?' How can I stop being? All these questions that you hear in satsang can be answered intuitively, and the idea is to get our intuition to open up.

It's there. 'Open up' in the sense we use it poetically to say that it's already open; it's just that we have not been relying on it for so long. So for us, it will feel like, 'Ah, is that new?' It's like you discover a new part of your house which is actually a window to the whole universe. It is literally like the cupboard in Narnia. You feel like life was very mundane and there's a war happening and all of that you're escaping, and suddenly you open the door of this cupboard—whole universe there! And that seems like the truer place. Some of you who've read Narnia, that book literally saved my life because as a kid I was going through some stuff and my only escape was the British Council library in Bahrain where I lived. So I just walked by myself over there and then Grace sent me these books and they became my anchor. And life all around me was a strange sort of mess, and those books and the character of Aslan really, I feel like, saved my life in some way. But I was too young to realize that it is really written metaphorically. So the cupboard really is your heart anchor, your heart knowing. You open that and you discover a completely different reality, you see.

It seems so... all the Plato's cave, all those things are the same kind of metaphor. You go the other way and you look and you find a completely different universe from what we thought. So the whole idea of the Zen koan, of the inquiry, of the invitation, of the ideas, is just to get us to live in the heart.

I try my best these days just to stay in the heart. And the minute there is an attack from the mind, thoughts from the inquiry, you know, nowadays it's like I really ask, 'Who is this who asks?' or 'Who is really thinking?'

Very important question. For a long time, this was the question I used to ask just before sleeping, and I used to go to sleep like that. Even 'Who am I?', of course. So just like our prayer must be done with as much devotion, as much love, as much faith as we can, the inquiry must be done with a true sincerity. You have to really ask, 'Who am I? But who am I?' And the mind struggles because it can't produce it like 'banana, orange, elephant.' At least for a few moments, then it leads you to a higher intelligence. Almost like it says, 'This is above my pay grade, I can't handle this.' You noticed the same thing happen with the koan. Initially all of you were like, 'But like that, but like this,' and then you were like questioning the koan itself. But does it have an answer? It does. It does have an answer, but not here. And that's why these inquiry and koans are also very helpful, because it makes the mind give up and tired, just frustrated, tired. Otherwise, it is usually riding very high: 'I can get the answers, do everything.' Really? What is the sound of one hand clapping? Like that, you see.

And you notice the koan says just anything which is beyond the mind. 'Why did Bodhidharma go to the East?' That's the koan. Now everything is laid out for you, whatever can be laid out in words, but you have to follow. You have to follow, follow whatever brings you to God's light. Don't settle for anything less and don't be too conclusive about yourselves like, 'I'm like this, I prefer this, I prefer that.' Either you squeeze it out of yourself or life... I was an atheist to say God is for losers. Life squeezed it out. Grace squeezed it out. All the blocks that you put for yourself. Messy kick, yeah. Messy is usually better; passes not so much. This is the problem. Don't just pass it around, kick it really. The koan won't work in an environment like this; you need an environment where there's only one Master available.

Don't be too conclusive about yourselves, like 'I'm like this, I prefer this, I prefer that.' Either you squeeze it out of yourself or life... I was an atheist to say God is for losers. Life squeezed it out. Grace squeezed it out. All the blocks that you put for yourself. Messi kick, yeah. Messi is usually better; passes not so much. This is the problem. Don't just pass it around; kick it really. The question won't work in an environment like this. You need an environment where there's only one master available and you have to really beg him to let you into the monastery. And then the master says, 'This is what you do for as long as it takes.' And that could be 20 years, 30 years, 40 years. You're just asking a question and it needs a certain type of devotion and lack of alternative, you see, which is very difficult in a modern sort of setting.

So if I just said, 'All of you, your job is to face the wall every day and ask yourself: What is this?' This is Korean Zen. So just all you have to do is that and nothing else. And food will be made available, or you have to do some work in the farm or the field outside, and that's your whole sadhana. And once a week you report to me saying, 'What's the answer to what is this?' The numbers will start thinning. In a couple of weeks, it stops. So there's a great faith even in the path of Zen. Like I say, spirituality is a risk; faith is a risk. So you're basically risking your entire life to try and answer a question like 'What is this?' If you were in that situation, you realize that it will seem so strange that this is what you have to do. Imagine the kind of faith you have to have in your master to spend 10 years, 20 years just struggling with this question, 'What is this?' facing a wall with nothing to distract you. It's astounding the level of faith that those ones had in those days.

When there was a satsang about this actually, where we were talking about to honor the presence, and then in a way that being open and empty, that prayer and that goes together because it is almost like a way to bow to that presence. It's not only some Ram in... I mean, that is, yeah, it's not in some kind of a... because if there is a sense of presence, even then, without that prayer, that... like you were saying, then this is physics. So what is it? Yeah, what is that? And how does it then...?

And the more we explored, the best part about the exploration is that it's intuitive. It only has like the subtlest vibration inviting you in. But the presence itself, except like its aura of the primordial vibration, it is met intuitively. And there's no greater gift that we can give to ourselves than to remain with the intuitive presence. Presence with that itself is beautiful, where the doorway to all insights open like that. Remain there. The more you are realizing who lives in your heart, the easier it will be to let go of your mind. Of course, the mind will fight harder, but its temptations won't seem that attractive. The more difficult you will try, it will be to make this about a 'me.' So at least most of the world believe that who lives in your heart? Nobody. Let's be honest, most of the world, nobody lives in my heart. Or are they being like poetic or romantic? They'll say 'my beloved' or some idea like that.

Then after coming to satsang, hopefully from 'nobody,' I've brought you to 'I've heard from him that God lives.' But I don't know. At least everyone should be at that point. And some of you will be able to confirm with me that He is here. And as we go along, hopefully all of you will be able to confirm that He is here. This is the project. Because in His light, then the recognition of the Absolute can happen, and it's not effortful. Without His light, it is not possible anyway, because He is the true Guru. The bringer of light is Him. And to reach Him, the only obstacle is a thought. A thought. The mind can only produce a thought at a time. Can you produce three thoughts at a time? Can you do it? Just like a mouth can speak only one word at a time. That's all you have to transcend. But that itself can seem like the most difficult challenge that we will ever encounter. Why? Because it seems like it is me. So to let go of that seems like I have to let go of me, myself. Only then, what will I do with God if I am not there? This is the kind of absurdity that we get into, to notice that that thought is not... I mean, that voice is not here even for one moment or two moments that you see that.

I just wanted to check with you. So when I'm really inquiring and then we ask like 'Who am I?' I open Papaji's book, he said, 'Then you keep quiet, you keep quiet.' And I noticed that, so I became the quiet one. So when the thought said something, I could witness it. But when you started being quiet, the presence with that quietness, it's becoming more. So you know what we're going to do?

What you reminded me of that day, which is everyone pick one pointer. Pick one pointer like we did many years back and use it fully. Otherwise, what happens is, 'Oh, I read this, I saw this, then this was there, then that was there.' Every day it seems like we're making new discoveries, but we have to dig the well deeper and deeper and deeper. So pick one. If not a pointer, pick one method and stay with it as much as you can. And then if it becomes too much, then tell me and say, 'Okay, now I need to change the door. I can't chant anymore, I need to inquire.' 'Okay, inquire.' 'I can't inquire anymore, I need to pray.' Which is on... yeah, I know you said that sometimes like that, sometimes like that. But many times what can happen is that... not that I'm not saying this in this case, I'm just saying generally that many times our spirituality or our so-called spiritual seeking can also be an obstacle. It's like, 'I didn't stay with God's presence, but I was reading this. I didn't stay with this, but I was this.' So we find some mental substitute. It seems almost good enough.

Okay, there is craving for Him, longing for Him. Is it the same as prayer, Father?

Yes, it can be. It can be in the sense that if it is from the heart... longing means from the heart. So yes. But sometimes it may even start off with very mechanical, like you were saying that, 'Actually, I'm just caught up. I had a fight with someone and I'm just caught up and all that with my mind told me, so I'm going to chant a little bit.' It just starts, right? But there's some potency in these words. There's potency in that which also we have activated in our heart in the past. So then after a few of those, it may actually start to deepen. If the mind doesn't win, then it may actually become more heartfelt, may become a true invocation, and then it may be just from the heart, effortless from the heart. Your heart is chanting. So whether to see then what to see, whether it's a longing and the thing... all these distinctions then start to fade away in the heart. God, God, God.

Should one...?

Yeah, but you have to have a sense of it in the sense that if you can notice that you're like just too much spiritual concept picking up and almost like a spiritual shopping instead of just using a pointer to remain in God's light. How should you read a book now? So if you're reading Papaji, if you're reading Bhagavan, if you're reading Guruji, if you're reading all these beautiful Masters, you're reading them, you'll find that you read like two, three sentences and you just go quiet within. So it's almost like a prayer, almost reading it in that way. That you're reading or you're hearing a satsang and you're just in the energy field of the Satguru presence, it just takes you to the heart. So if that is what it is, then that is fine. But if you feel like, 'Oh yeah, now I understood this and I should do like that and then this,' it becomes like... you can smell whether it's becoming too intellectual or mental. Then say, 'Okay, now keep it all aside. I'm going to stay with inquiry or chanting,' something that just takes you to God. Because every moment that you don't spend in His light is not a moment of life anyway, even in the guise of spirituality. So we don't... I'm not going to force you today, but if I feel like that is happening where we're just like intellectual shopping, pick one thing and you dig, dig, dig, you come to God.

So the idea is... so it's taken on in a way that I'm not able to... so even say Ananta's videos, like there's a habit of wanting to just hear and I'm unable to just hear. Like, I'm not able to hear because there's no attention. There's no attention, or it's... I won't say completely, it's on the prayer, but I'm not able to even say reading a newspaper, I'm not able to process. So today I felt I just do prayer. I'm not able to like anything where the breath is not chanting, I'm not able to. I was like, am I...?

That's quite a switch over. Then the mind hates it. The mind doesn't like it. It's like, 'Now you're not even able to do anything. You can't hear, you can't...' So it's feeling so... 'I don't want to do this only. You can't even listen to the... you can't even do prayer.' It's like... so like she was saying, I was just wondering if I'm going insane or what's going on. Like, I don't know what's going on. I can't do anything where the breath doesn't involve mostly. Like, so yesterday I was at a party, I could talk, it was natural.

Who is that? The mind saying or your heart is saying, what, Father? That you can't do anything when the breath is involved? The mind is saying it's feeling very frustrated. It's trying every trick, Father, to stop that. It's so... so all the... who's complaining about it? Every trick. It only... so it's okay. Nothing can be inauspicious in you invoking God. Can I just expose all its tricks? Because I do get so all like this, like the body just starts feeling very weird. Like I feel like I'm dizzy, I'm going to faint, all kinds of stuff. And it's like, 'Look, you're not doing it the right way. You know, it's not... you're not breathing the...' It's trying every trick and I'm falling for that fear, you know? I'm scared because body is my twig. So when the body starts feeling, which it is, you know, it just... I don't know. I'm just... from your twig, you make it your Isaac.

Okay. I sometimes just say, you know, Krishna knows, and I just leave it like Krishna knows. Like, you know, because it tries to like always... okay, it... I'm liking the switch. It's quite a contrast, so overwhelming to my system. Like in those areas, like I said, okay, I try pranayama, just the alternate... I couldn't do it. I just had to stop and just start that. So it's like, 'You're not taking care of your body.' Like, what? That's the trick. It just... but it just feels like I just want to chant. Like, you know, just can't stop. I'm insane.

Father, if you have spiritual experiences that you're perceiving that seem beautiful, enjoy them. Don't run from them, but don't attach to any of that. Sometimes you'll see some very sublime things; enjoy it. But often from the beginning of sharing satsang, this analogy came where you enjoy the Prasad at the temple, but hopefully you're not going to the temple for the Prasad. So you're going to be with God, to be in His presence. Because the mind will lose all of that. And never say that today my inquiry or my sadhana or my staying with God's presence is not happening because I'm not seeing something. Like, seeing, not seeing is unimportant. So don't grasp at any perception. You don't have to figure out whether it is imagination or it is visions or what it is. Don't worry about any of them. Your job is to be with God.

The mind will very quickly start using those things. You see, as you're all deepening in your sadhana, it'll start to make benchmarks. It'll say, or somebody else is reporting something, you may say, 'I'm either that I'm feeling so it's not happening for me,' or 'You are doing something wrong because you are just stuck in your imagination.' No judgments about yourself or for any brother or sister. Everyone is going to come to this in their own unique way, a unique set of experiences along the way. I have been finding that it's not helpful at all to discuss it with anyone, although...

In your sadhana, it'll start to make benchmarks. It'll say, or somebody else is reporting something, you may say, 'I'm either that I'm feeling so it's not happening for me' or 'You are doing something wrong because you are just stuck in your imagination.' No judgments about yourself or for any brother or sister. Everyone is going to come to this in their own unique way, a unique set of experiences along the way.

I have been finding that it's not helpful at all to discuss it with anyone, although it makes it very hard because when I've discussed it or shared what I was going through, it became real instead of it diminishing. Like they say, 'Share your sorrow and it's halved,' but I feel that it became double. So I just wondered about that.

Yes, there are many dynamics that are at play. It's not as straightforward. One of the things that maybe all of us have noticed is that something seems truer and a stronger position that we take once it's come out of our mouth. So the minute also we've said, 'Oh, but it's like this,' and you may have noticed this especially in arguments at home and things like that, that you may not have such a strong position about it, but the minute you've said it, then it becomes like, 'Okay, now it has to be like that.' A few minutes later you'll be like, 'I don't really care about that thing,' you see? Once it just... so there are many, many things which are at play like that where once you say to friends, 'You know that I'm really upset about this thing,' you may not have been feeling that upset also, but once you've said it, you're like, 'Yeah, I'm actually really upset.' They're trying to help. Yes, you have to just be very hearty about it. We don't know. Like sometimes our friends can be a great help because they help us spot things which we may be hiding. They may say, 'But isn't that your mind?' or 'Is that pride?' or 'Is that something?' That's helpful. Many times we just need to hear from someone that it's all okay, we all go through this, it's okay. Sometime that's helpful. So it's not completely cut and dried that it will become half or double.

Strange isn't it, how positions can seem to get even stronger once the words are out? Like I've said this now, that positions become stronger once the words are out, and one of you says, 'No, Father, they don't really become stronger, do they?' Let's look. Before that, I was so bothered about a problem in worldly relationships. The words become like really as if they represent us truly, and then once we've said them also, we take on the position that they are truly representative of us. Very absurd actually.

Earlier you talked about—I saw it in your eyes when you talked about the sweetness of invoking God's name—and this is a sweetness I could resonate with. But it's that presence, the look in your eyes when I think of just being in that space. Maybe I'm worried my mind is just missing something by not invoking the name. The presence is so... the longing is there. The presence is so beautiful.

Yeah, so spend as much time as you can with it. Use the inquiry, use whatever you want, because that presence is also the true Guru. He himself will also guide you. This one is just his instrument. And this one, in this worldly appearance, we have to speak in this way, you see, collectively. But my job really is to guide you to Him who will guide you every moment. And when things become moment to moment, then all instructions fall flat actually. He's guiding you freshly every moment, which in a worldly way I can't do. So my pay grade is only to get you to Him. The rest He will take care of. So stay with Him as much as you can.

Maybe like this child, you will also switch. Because till two days ago she was like, 'I can't do the beads, I just can't do it.' Now she's like, 'I can't leave the beads no matter what I'm doing, I can't leave.' Who knows? His way is all mysterious. The stupid atheist boy now has spoken for so long, so many years about God and His life. Who can tell? Unimaginable for that one, whoever considered that he's going to be sharing God's life.

Okay, one question is: 'Father, I don't have any spiritual experiences, anything at all. My life is just too simple. Is it okay?' Yes, yes. In many ways it is also better to be just simple like that because the mind has less fuel to make benchmarks to say all kinds of things. If you just... it's very, very sober. Even that is very good.

Then next one: 'The beads, prayers constantly running in the background. There are times when during an activity you're just sitting there tuning into it.' So sweet to get this Darshan. We keep behaving like this forever because I wave, then you wave back, then I wave back.