What Higher Meeting Can There Be Than God? - 10th July 2023

So the first question to all of you is: is there a presence within you? Take your time. Try not to use your intellect and mind. Just see if you can meet, like you would meet someone outside, see if there's a meeting possible with the presence without any visualization or imagination. Let's see if there's a being, the presence, which is just naturally apparent to you. So what I'm saying is that God is not only real, God's presence can be discovered within yourselves. And note that most of you will hear it as if I'm saying within your body, but provisionally that is fine. It's provisionally that is fine. It's actually within yourself, the absolute Self, the higher Self, but it may seem to be experienced as a presence within the sensations that we call a body.

She's asking questions. The handle's turned the other way. If the chair is available, if somebody wants to... she's wondering why we... that way we won't have to move the mic. Let's be careful that you don't sleep.

In feeling this presence and in knowing it, when I sit in meditation, there is no doubt about the Absolute. My question is that does the going into the depth of it, or then being able to live in it on a day-to-day basis, does that mean that one needs to sit more? Is the practice sitting more? Because is that an extremely important thing at such a point, to be dedicated to really being still and sitting?

If you feel that without sitting in that way, you're not spending your day open and empty, you're not spending it in God's light, then it is helpful. But there is no prerequisite to living in God right now. This conversation can happen just in the emptiness of the non-egoic state where the words can just flow from the heart naturally. So it's not a prerequisite, but you have to be intuitive about it and see whether you're easily distracted otherwise, and then because you spend a few minutes in the morning, you're not as distracted. How is it now, like we are conversing?

Yeah.

And what do you feel?

Great peace.

And the source of that peace? Between the completely unperceivable, unfathomable Self which is witnessed intuitively and the feeling of peace, is there a vibratory quality that we may call the presence?

Very good. So this is natural. What can take you away from this?

What I think.

That's the answer, actually, yeah. You see, 'I'm thinking' is not the mere appearance of thought.

I've started sensing a more... my mind, if I'm, you know, like I sometimes if I find like it's if I'm going down the river with it, I tell it that I've crossed the river now so it can come with me, you know.

It's fine, it's completely fine. Just be a little vigilant about it because the thief is very tricky, you see. Just when you're catching it, it will say, 'I'm not a thief, I'm your best friend. Let's be friends, what's the problem?' Not that we must be permanently antagonistic towards it. There will come a point where the mind becomes like a pet, but like Guruji says, the mind is not your friend—not yet. So you must not rush into that at all, because I've had this conversation before when I was younger and it was really starting... or something, I was like, 'It's fine, you know,' and never saw them again. You just have to be a little bit careful that when we start to develop a sort of friendly relationship with the mind, then it doesn't get us on the merry-go-round again.

It's entertaining. The quality that keeps me from the depth is a sort of... I don't know whether it's like it gets dull. I seem to think that, you know, sometimes it's kind of okay to go along with a little bit of...

Yes, yes. So we have to be really vigilant at this point because the whole Lila is what? Entertainment. What is Lila? What is the play of Consciousness, you see? But the thing is, the minute we buy into the entertainment value of this, you see, we start finding the suffering value in it along with that. Now, in the mind's interpretation, the Self is a bit dull. 'What is there? So boring,' you see. But the truth is the exact opposite of that. The Self is so immensely stunning that when we learn to live completely intuitively, we recognize its magnificence. It is that in which Consciousness is born, and within Consciousness, millions and millions of universes have come and gone. That is the reality of the Self, you see.

Now, this magnificent one, because the mind cannot fathom it because it's empty of quality, the mind says, 'What is there in there? Just a dark, empty place. Who wants to live in this nothing?' So it's not a nothing; it's no-thing, which is beyond the mind at the moment. So this metaphor that I've been using: how long can you stare at the sun without sunglasses? You have to turn away, isn't it? So our perceptions are not able to handle it. And in whose light is the sun shining? I'm not looking at inferring, but what do you see? What do you find?

So there is no sensory pleasure, excitement in the world which can come close to the beauty, the innocence, the being with God. And this is the trickery of the mind, that's why I was questioning just a little bit of vigilance. Because slowly it will sell you these stories: 'Some excitement is also important. You can't become a sadhu, you're too young,' you see. 'You have to do other things also.' Maybe it will sell you these stories, but it'll take you away from God's light back into the hellish shadow of the ego. Look at these photos on the walls. You've never met happier, more entertained people, and yet they were not entertained by the Lila, although Lila is funny. But the joy through the discovery of God's light within them is unparalleled to anything the world can offer.

So maybe it's relevant for some of you here that sometimes the distinction between Shreya and Preya is good. Shreya means short-term misery but long-term pleasure; Preya means short-term pleasure but long-term misery. So when the mind tempts us, it usually tempts us with the short-term pleasures. 'Oh, have a cupcake, what's going to happen? Run more tomorrow,' you see, these kinds of things. See, I'm taking simplistic examples. And then to burn that cupcake, you have to run two miles or something like that, right? So in the same way, the mind will offer you temptations. Now, just talking to another friend saying, just as we are starting to get deep and learning to live intuitively in God's light, the mind will offer the best opportunities: business opportunities, partners, relationships, attractions, all this kind of thing.

So just what higher meeting can there be than God? Unless we're just meeting an experience, okay? And unless we're thinking that, you know, God is just another like element like gravity or electricity or light or something like that. No, we're talking about the God... I was taking this example a lot before you came. So if I told you, who's your favorite movie star? Really nice. So if I told you that Shashi Kapoor is going to meet you now and you have to be available all day tomorrow, he may come to your house and ring your bell, then would you do it? So if we were to do this for a Shashi Kapoor, what can we do for God? And we just need to keep our table ready for Him to come to dinner. So that's very important. So don't get involved in the mind's upside-down version of what is important and what is fun and what is not.

Questions? No questions. I was confronted by a couple of situations where the mind's immediate response after somebody said something to me in the written form was a desire for fairness. As in, my mind was asking for fairness and it wanted to respond with a sense of fairness. I started just reflecting on fairness and what came up was like any ask for fairness itself can only come from the ego—at least it felt like that. And I kept staying with it for almost a whole day trying to just dig deeper into... yeah, ultimately I just surrendered thinking like any ask for fairness can only be coming from my mind, and then I stayed with that.

To me, in the written form, was a desire for fairness. As in, my mind was asking for fairness and it wanted to respond with a sense of fairness. I started just reflecting on fairness and what came up was like any ask for fairness itself can only come from the ego—at least it felt like that. And I kept staying with it for almost a whole day trying to just dig deeper into it. Ultimately, I just surrendered thinking like any ask for fairness can only be coming from my mind. And then I stayed with that and then the need for fairness went away and I chose not to respond or to want to be right. I think the first satsang I came, you said if there's one thing you want from us is: Drop the need to be right. I've been trying, been mostly successful, sometimes unsuccessful, but that is what emerged in the last 24 hours—that fairness is basically my wanting to be right. So I just wanted to share that and hear if that is kind of on the track.

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for this question. And the Greeks, you know, they came up with this notion of 'the good.' Everything that is good was put in that motion of the good. They had, like we have God, they used to say 'the good.' And all these versions of what is ethically right, what is good to do, all of that arises out of that notion of good, including fairness. And you're right, it is very connected to wanting to be right, wanting the self-righteousness. Self-righteousness is very important in that. So after coming to satsang, what can we say is really good? What is the way to determine the goodness or badness of anything, or the rightness or wrongness of anything?

So can I answer it in a different way? What came up for me was to respond immediately on WhatsApp. I got a nasty—I'll let you guess who wrote to me—but I wanted to respond point to point saying that this is wrong, this is right, this is reality, knowing very well that nobody knows what reality is and it's just my perception of reality. So that was the initial reaction. So I'm coming to your question, which is: How do I know what is good? In that moment, it felt that was good. But then I just, because of being in satsang I guess, stayed back and didn't give in to the impulse. I wrote what I wanted to write but did not hit the send button. And then I asked myself, like you have said: Am I clinging or grasping, and am I aware of myself? And I wasn't aware of the Self that you talk about. So I stayed till that became apparent and then immediately I just deleted it and laughed at myself. So now the question is, which I'm actually still struggling with even though I deleted it—it felt good, and I felt good—so when did the struggle come back?

Now your Self was apparent?

Yeah, actually I won't call it a struggle, and maybe you can just dismiss the topic, but it's again a postmortem, which I know you said we shouldn't do. So we don't have to do it. What came up as a question, not a struggle, is in the moment when I started typing it, it was very clear there was no awareness and it was the need to be right. Then when I stayed out of it, or I could say, 'Okay, now I'm not clinging or grasping or have aversion,' I could still hear a voice which said, 'Let it go.' And the question is that 'Let it go' also seems like a thought, but I was like, 'Okay, that is the... maybe it's the voice of awareness.'

And this is that it's completely possible that your Self was apparent to you, you see. And we'll come to the voice in a moment. Naturally, you press delete, but a stronger message was sent in the same response to that what you had drafted—a point-by-point rebuttal. All of that. Now that one could have been sent, or a stronger one could have been sent, or a different one could have been sent, or nothing could have been sent. Like nothing was sent. Yeah. So in the perceptual outcome of what happened, we cannot determine whether it is good or not, because nobody really knows conceptually what is the good response to this.

So why I am sharing this is because very often it can seem like what I'm saying is sort of passivity—you must become like sheep and life and things like this. But it is true that I am saying that, but only inwardly, you see. Now sometimes when you're just being true to yourself, then the lion comes out. Sometimes the sheep comes out. Sometimes different animals, whatever variations have to come. So life then becomes unpredictable, you see. And to trust in God is to allow that unpredictability to unfold. Okay?

So what I have said often is that there are two ways in which we can say we are following God's will. The first way is when we are empty and things are just naturally unfolding. Now in both of these ways, you just have to be careful that we are not using Advaita excuses, okay? So we are not going with the mind but saying, 'Oh, it's my heart.' Going with the mind but saying it's my heart. That's why I'm very glad to hear you use the tool: Is your Self apparent to you? You see, that is the foolproof solution. So as your Self is apparent to you, then to allow it to unfold naturally is to follow God's will. And as you get used to that, usually you will start hearing palpable guidance, like the voice of God within you, the Atma within you, or the Guru presence will guide you what is to be done.

So these are the ways in which we live in God's will. Your voice came, your face and your voice came saying, 'Oh, isn't it obvious? You're just trying to be right.' And then I very quickly surrendered to that and it was apparent.

Yeah, okay. So just keep in that. So the presence is part of the Self is apparent. When these things are there, then you can trust the voice that comes, because the mind is also very good at imitating, you see. So it will also... it can imitate me also very well. Yeah. So you have to be careful to say, 'My child, that you can do the argumentations.' We have to be careful of that. So use the tools. And the good thing is that as long as our intention in our heart was to follow God's guidance, then God's grace will take care of it even if we have a few missteps along the way. Not that in this case you followed the mind, but I'm saying even if our feeling wholeheartedly was to follow God but we fell for some mind tricks, God will take care of that.

Let me tell you the episode two. It always happens. When I was sharing this with somebody—not in the detail I'm sharing with you, but that this happened—and then that person asked me, 'What did you do?' And I said, 'Just let it go because I was trying to be right and my current learning in life is it only gives me suffering ultimately.' Then that person said, 'Oh, but you are right and you know this is pacifism and you're not fighting for your right and this...' And so then the topic of fairness came up and I don't have an answer.

In the six blind men with the elephant, which one is right? You know that story? Which one is right? Each is right in their universe, yes. And also then none of them is right. Because this perception is so broad that we can never make a valid conclusion about it, you see. So if one says there's a hand, could be right. One says Father is blessing us, could be right. One says Father is saying stop it, could be right, you see. So all are right in their own way, but nobody is really right.

So the consequence of this, which I am enjoying, but the consequence is that I actually have stopped believing I'm right ever. I've not fully made peace with that, but I'm getting there. Like today, a friend and I had a long one-hour chat and I was constantly mindful that ultimately I don't know if I'm right, ultimately she doesn't know.

Make that the new right. Yeah. So help me with that because it says that we can make a new position, you see, that 'Oh, I just don't want to be right.' No, no, no, I'm not doing that. I'm just while I'm speaking, I may be speaking with conviction about something. I'm not reducing my enthusiasm in participating in something because it's coming from somewhere. It's not coming from the mind—at least those moments I know it's just coming as a nice active non-grasping kind of thing. But there is this constant awareness that ultimately I don't know. Maybe these words may be coming out, but I'm not going to get too wrapped up in them.

That's very good actually. We don't know here in our heads we don't know. And in our hearts what we know is so immense, but it is up to the heart what to bring to the surface, you see. We cannot compel that. We cannot use it as a cheat code. It doesn't give us any abilities necessarily, although intuitively many things may happen which are nothing short of miraculous, but that cannot become an expectation. So just this is the way to live in the heart. Okay? Just allow the heart to unfold moment to moment. But there will be some instances where intuitively, without thinking, you just do something because in that moment it is right to do that, like whether he lifted the glass the other day or just speaking or whatever that can happen.

We are coming to the end of right and wrong. Come to the end of those because those are very primitive categories. Because the mind is very primitive, it has these categories which is: Okay, is this good? Is this bad? Is this up? Is this down? So as we are coming to the discovery of our true Selves, we realize all these categories are just flimsy. Flimsy. And then that need to put actions in categories then dissolves. It's just happening in that moment. Yes. But so is this a doing or happening? Those who've not been to satsang may call this the doing—he is doing it, you see. Now those who heard me speak when I say that, okay, this is happening through him, you know, through God's light is just moving like this. So it's happening. But the point that I am making is that it's beyond doing, which implies agency and volition, and happening, which implies that we can judge movement and change and things like that.

They may no longer be able to fit anything in the world into a narrative because very conveniently, you know how Advaita is used? Like earlier he did this to me, now they will say through him it happened to me, you see. Through that. That doesn't really help. So that is just using conceptual Advaita. Meeting the moment fresh, allowing God's will to move this world including this body, it has become very natural. Thank you.

Can we look together? Yeah, just this presence. Sorry, presence that you've got us to. Sometimes it's... well honestly, it's very rarely felt. I mean that for me to confirm that this is the presence, I have to see my absence. Remove the absence of me.

Some good news for you is that there is only one presence. There is only God's presence. There is no individual presence. So you don't have to look between presences and say, 'Ah, that is God's presence.' There is no other presence but God. So if you can just distinguish between sensation and other worldly perception and the sense of presence, then you are fine. Because the mind only has one job, which is to convince you that that presence is individual, it is personal, whereas in actuality it is God's presence. The minute you go to anything in your head, then we can hold on to the idea that 'I'm always in presence.' That idea is not worth it, not worth anything else.

For instance, at the beginning of the satsang you were talking about this Self, you know, like all-encompassing. And so when I hear you speaking so eloquently about this presence in this way, I feel, 'Okay, maybe I'm totally deluding myself because my words are not like this. This is not my experience.'

Okay, so let's dive into what is your experience without any mental contamination. Now, this presence is apparent?

Yes.

Where does it start?

Nowhere.

Is this boundary...?

I don't feel there is no boundary.

What are you more certain than certain about its boundary? There's a place within you, you know this more than a fact.

Speaking so eloquently about this presence in this way, I feel, okay, maybe I'm totally deluding myself because, you know, my words are not like this. Yeah, this is not my experience. So, okay, so let's dive into what is your experience without any mental contamination. Now, this presence is apparent?

Yes.

Yes. Where does it start?

Nowhere.

Is this boundary... yeah, I don't feel there is no problem. What do you... more certain than certain about its boundary? There's a place within you, you know this more than a fact. This cannot be answered from the mind at all, isn't it? So, where you do know, what do you know authoritatively about its boundary?

Yeah, and I just can't, can't say that there is a boundary. But I can't say either that it's...

Don't let your intellect come in, okay? And then come back. It's here, it's here. Don't wait for the utterances of your heart. You don't have to wait for the utterances of the heart to get confirmation from your mind. It's okay if you sound foolish. What is the boundary of your presence?

I feel like floating, floating. This is what I can, you know, if I would try to describe it. The presence is floating.

Yeah. What is it floating in?

And that me is what I see. I see this, I see the floating. I, that in which the floating is happening, is also seeing.

No. Yeah, then how can we confirm the floating? If the balloon is not floating in the sky, where is it floating? The primordial vibration of the presence is seen within what?

Within me.

And this me is present or absent? That which is aware of the presence of this you, is that prior to even this? Slowly. That which is aware of me perceiving the presence. Your being is perceiving the primordial vibration of itself. Who is aware of this?

I know I can only say I am aware of this.

Yes. And this I is where? Where is it looking at all of this from? Say from a particular place. Is there another I, or is the only I really the one that you are not... you cannot point out its location too? And if this is the only I, which it is, then what happens to all our stories, all our narratives? Even the one who wants freedom. Is there any story we have which has I as awareness, as a pure witness of all of this?

But now nobody but... probably a bit later. I hope not become asked. I, those story, unreal. Yes, I'm not sure I can say that 100%.

Who's saying this? Yeah, the mini-me. Why are those stories unreal? Because the protagonist is unreal, you see. So if you said once there was a king here, the kingdom called ABC, and in ABC there were three palaces, A, B, and C, and then then we realized there was no king, does the story have any value? So the story is unreal because the protagonist has been taken to be the wrong one.

So but that one is still grasping.

Yeah, that's the thing. Okay, can it compel you?

Yes, of course.

What can it say? Is that like a superhero thought, Superman thought, 'You have to believe me'? It's like a kid, you know, throwing a tantrum requiring attention because it requires... you are required to give it. When are you going to claim this power? How about now? Yeah, you're not hostage. Your mind depends on you for its existence. You're free.

Easier for myself.

So pure awareness is struggling because the thought comes and then something has to come in perception to make it easier for the self? Can I say this thought, expressive thoughts... you were looking at me and somehow I... yeah, it's difficult to not take shape when you're looking at me.

Difficult to not take shape. That's like a reverse compliment.

Yeah, that's the first. It's so easy. Now you're taking shape because I'm looking at it. Yeah, you're doing something wrong. I need to go get my eyes checked. Is it true? Presence is here. I am here. Come to a place where you're not grasping at all, okay? Not trying to make sense of this. You're not making meaning out of this. Empty. Don't run from here because the mind will now offer you either something funny or something, something to try and distract you. Don't run.

I feel the resistance means what sensation? Yeah, I see that there is a something, an energy that that wants to eat, to take attention.

Some fear is natural. Some obliviousness will come because we are not used to living without our mind. So it feels like, you know, drowning for a minute or something, but actually you're learning to fly. There you go. Don't make a conclusion. Don't say this is happening to me. Don't conclude anything, okay? But you can't live like this. You have work, you have responsibilities, you have family, your life. You're still young, you have places to go, all of that. Okay, but I'm not talking about outwardly at all. And often I teach this example I saw on Discovery or something, that this bird in the first year of his life... now, you know, this first year of his life, it's alone. I don't know what happened to the rest of the flock. It is alone. And when the season was starting to change, it started flying in the direction that these birds migrate to. Didn't have a compulsory, didn't know season, didn't know north, didn't know any of that. But what is that intelligence that makes that action happen? So living interest, living surrendered to God's light doesn't mean a sheepish or a vegetative life, you see. It may if that's God's rhythm, but usually he doesn't. All that needs to happen outwardly can happen. Don't revert to self-concern. 'Yeah, I want to stay as I am.' Is this self-concern? Yeah, I just said don't do it to self-concern. Many times our prayers are also a distraction, like when the mind says, 'This one is not going to listen to anything, but I am going to offer to it: Father, please, please.' And we were empty before that. So I would rather you be empty than fall into any self-concern type thing. Yes. And if you find that you're worrying about something, something is bothering you, all of that, that you can bring to your prayer, you see. But don't go from empty to prayer. Go from again to prayer to empty. I saw that trick as it was doing it because you were being empty and then... oh yeah, you notice it is very subtle.

Yeah, I see that the root... because the mind is just like, 'Yes, I knew she was going to follow that one.' The story that keeps coming back, you know, in loop at the moment is, 'Oh my God, in three weeks I'm going to be in Corfu and you know, I just don't want to fall asleep and I want to live, I want to live here empty.' But 'I want' is again...

Shut up, get up, get lost, look up. Okay. Are you Corfu in there? You just have to hold this so they can hear you.

Hi, I'm here for the first time. So before this, before we begin this satsang, I was talking about the cyclical nature. And again, I would want to discuss this furthermore. When you say disengage with the mind and not to get identified, however, be it social or other norms that we've set, and it is more or less engraved and that is considered to be more natural. Yes. And then the self. So be it partying or whatever social norms that there are, they are considered to be more normal nowadays, and this is considered to be as abnormal. Now, I began my practices in 2020 or 19 rather, but then I took inspiration from my father. So during his course... I mean, he's still there with us, but then what I'm trying to say is that whenever rough patches used to come in his life, I used to see this man always laughing and, you know, always joyful no matter what. A brother got paralyzed, businesses got screwed, this whatever happened happened, but then this guy was always smiling. And I've been with him, meditating with him and going to the temples with him since I was little. So I took inspiration from him, but then he was not that expressive. He would always tell me, 'And it's nothing, it's nothing like it's nothing, don't worry about it, it's nothing.' So I got time in 2020 to self-reflect and I took the... I tried to make the most of it. I started doing various practices and then is the time when a little distance came between the mind and my body. I was not identifying with all of this. So that gave me pleasure like anything. I mean, I was so happy in that space. And every year I used to go back to my whatever, I mean, social norms I'd set. So I again start get... it was like a very cyclical thing. So I got identified with it again. So now my question today is how to break these cycles? Because I really like that space and that's why I'm here today.

Those who are especially for those who are new to satsang, but also I am following it, something came from here called the Atma Darshan samadhis. You'll get to send that to you as well. I did the prayer today. Yes, very good. And actually let's start with what you said about your father. It's very beautiful because you said that these life events, like something happening to a child, something happening to work and business and money, these are the strongest buttons that life has, especially the thing with the child. And for someone to go through that with the sense that it's okay, it may seem like a very simplistic sort of way to live, but I am still learning that as we're getting deeper into God, you see how he has become simpler and simpler. Yeah, our way becomes simpler. But to be simple in the face of these kind of events, see, must mean that there's a great love for God, a great devotion, a great surrender there, which we come to a point where to speak like this and to share doesn't seem easy. You need to look forward because actually sometimes you just want to say it's okay, it's okay. So firstly, you're blessed to have a parent like this, and my pranams to him as well, that in the face of such life situations, he went through them with a smile. And simple immunity is what I'm hearing also. So very beautiful, thank you for sharing that. Now, the thing is that this 'I' that you want to... let's start like this, and if it becomes too difficult, we'll try some other approaches, okay? Because coming from here right now is to start like this. The 'I' that you want to help keep peaceful, happy in those states of bliss versus in the tamasic sort of nature of the other things which the world has to offer, can you identify for me which one that is? Who is this one that you're trying to help? Where is that? Who is this one? Yes. Is it the body? Every cell of this body changes every two or three years, you see, and yet we say, 'I was born over there.' That baby that was born, not a single cell is in common with this part now, and yet some thread is connecting. So it's not the body.

Let me just rephrase this, maybe I can explain it a little better. So first of all, if we talk about 'I', it should be... it shouldn't be there or it should be there? I'm just a beginner to this. But then when it comes to self-reflecting or observing, I think I always... I reached there wherein I was observing. I had an eagle-eye vision or something like that, so that I could look that, 'Okay, this is not where you should be and you have tasted something so beautiful and why are you, you know, going round and round in circles?' And this is the third year that I could not break the circle. At this time I reached really far, but again I'm here and I've opted for the mind games and all of the entertainment that there is. So at least I've come to a point wherein I could be the observer and see that, 'Okay, this is not what I should be doing.' And it was more like brooming every day. Whatever practices that I could do and I used to do was more like a brooming. Every morning I used to broom to make space, like you said, for the God to enter or for that space I used to make. And I usually... I would do it for three, four months and then quit. So this 'I' that was mentioned quite often, which one is that?

I guess it's the same one. In this matter, we cannot guess, no. Because suppose that there was a beautiful patch of grass now and we both giraffe, we ate that patch of grass. Now that patch of grass had vanished. Then we went to giraffe Guru to say, 'Guruji, please, I had that patch of grass.' But the Guruji says, 'But are you a giraffe or are you...'

So that space I used to make and I usually would do it for three or four months and then quit. So this 'I' that was mentioned quite often, which one is that? I guess it's the same one.

In this matter, we cannot guess, no. Because suppose that there was a beautiful patch of grass now and we both were giraffes. We ate that patch of grass. Now that patch of grass had vanished. Then we went to the giraffe Guru to say, 'Guruji, please, I had that patch of grass.' But the Guruji says, 'But are you a giraffe or are you a rabbit?' Then if you say, 'But I consider myself a giraffe. I am asking for the grass. You just help me with the grass. Don't let us go into whether I am a giraffe or a rabbit.' But if you meet such a one who will be the only one who will tell you you're a rabbit, and that is the truth, would you want to have that conversation or no?

I would want to have every conversation and want to know better. But yes, I guess if I was the giraffe and ate the grass, then that also is kind of inclusive; it became me. So is this conceptual, how you're seeing this?

I can see that. I can see it, yes. The one that sees this, what is its color?

There is no color, any attribute. It has nothing, absolutely nothing.

So this 'I', does it want anything?

No, it doesn't want. Because that which is attributeless, what can be given to it and what can it want?

There was a moment of insight which you had. In that moment, you recognize that I am the one witnessing all of this, and that 'I' is untouched by all of this. You see, what can be given to that one? Nothing really. As we can see, what can be taken away from that one? Nothing. Is there another 'I'?

No, it's not that I accept conceptually. Thank you.

You're very welcome. But so often I used to share the cat story. Suppose you were born in a world without mirrors. Without mirrors, you cannot check on yourself. You could not see who you are then. But you had these cats around you who are telling you, guiding you, saying, 'Oh, you're a cat.' And the first thing that you have to do is your next, your first bowl of milk is to get a good education. Okay, once you get a good education, then you'll always be happy. That bowl of milk will be final for you. Okay, then like a cat, you try to get a good education and then you said, 'Oh, but I'm not happy.' Then another one told you, 'No, no, no, you have to now get the best relationship. Find the best cat partner, then you'll always be happy.' You tried to find the best cat partner and after you find, also not happy. You say, 'Oh no, but your body is depleting. You have to take care of it. You have to build cat muscles.' You see, then once you have strong cat muscles, then you'll always be happy. You have relationship, education, money, all of this. And this cat goes about everywhere from bowl of milk to bowl of milk and doesn't find this happiness, doesn't find this peace. Okay, then they tell you, 'No, no, you have to find Nirvana. You have to find God.' All that for the sham. You shouldn't chase all of that till you find God or Moksha; you will not be happy. Okay, so this cat goes from cat Guru to cat Guru, all different practices and all kinds of things you do and find nothing. It works for a bit, stops. Huh, yeah, this is a point to that in the story.

So then someone tells you, 'Go to this master. You see, he'll help you. He can give you Nirvana directly. He's a very direct teacher.' So you go to this master. You say, 'Master, I'm a cat. I've been through all this. I did all these. The only times of peace I had were a little bit when I did this and I did like that.' You see, the master says, 'Okay, I'll help you. But are you really a cat?' And this you go, 'Meow, meow, meow.' Obviously, in cat language, 'Obviously I'm a cat. Everyone throughout his life has taken me to be a cat. I have known myself to be a cat. What kind of strange one are you that who's asking who is this?' Then the master says, 'I have a mirror, but are you willing to look? Are you willing to look?' What do you feel like most will do? Most will not look. Most will run because the cat identity is so strong. It feels scary. 'What will I do without that?' you see. But those who are willing to look recognize that there is no such cat. And once you recognize that there is no such cat, it is not like you're left in limbo or a void and there is nothing. You don't become nihilistic, you see. You come to the recognition of divinity within yourselves, that God is here and all of this is God's play, God's light.

So this is the human condition. So the few rare ones who are offering us the mirrors and willing to counter our strongest belief that 'I am a cat,' you see, you must not run from them. As uncomfortable as it may seem, you must be willing to really look. Are you a person? Are you somebody? Who is that? What are you taking yourself to be? Who are you representing yourself to be? Just a bundle of food, digested food? Is that what we are? Somewhere that doesn't resonate with any of us, as egotistical as we may be, you see. It doesn't resonate that I'm just this bunch of food. And also, it doesn't resonate that I am going to die. You see, for most people it doesn't resonate because even those who are not in satsang, not spiritual, not even religious, they still say, most of them still say, 'Rest in peace. May they rest in peace.' But who are they wishing? The body is dead. The body will be burnt or buried under the ground. That is not the one they are wishing will rest in peace, isn't it? So who are they wishing? So intuitively, most of us have this sense that there's something else. Okay, there's something else.

But Maya with all his tricks, you see, keeps telling us, 'Oh, there's time. It's really I'm too young. It's time for this. I have other responsibilities.' You see, so this battle actually is for time. Every day it will say, 'Yes, yes, God is real, but tomorrow, tomorrow.' And soon we are close to being on our deathbed and even then attachments are all over, the grief of losing our loved ones next time. And through the cycle we've gone hundreds and thousands of times already. There's a story of Lakshman. He was going through this field and he saw these skulls and he asked the sage, 'Who put these here?' And she says, 'As you did.' So he says, 'You do.' So in Maya, we don't remember. So what does the sage tell Lakshman? 'When you are willing to get off your horse of pride and truly come to me, then this cycle will be over.' What is this pride? You don't have to be like, 'I'm a proud person, yeah, I'm better than everyone else.' No, most persons believe that they don't say it, but you're going to take yourself to be something without truly exploring the reality of that. This is just pride.

So this question 'Who am I?' which would be the fundamental question everyone should ask, 'Who am I?' but that is the most resisted in the world. The minute someone asks you, 'Who are you?' it seems like an attack and an insult because we spent all our life building up this identity and someone comes and says, 'Who are you?' 'Fly! Don't you know who I am?' especially in Delhi, you know. So this kind of taking ourselves to be somebody and then being so attached to that idea that anyone even questions, 'But who are you?' and it seems like an attack. And what are we defending? The fact that we don't know. It's very scary. We go through 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 years and when someone asks you, 'Who are you?' you think, 'Is it all lost? I spent all this time and I still don't know who I am.' So is it all lost? Is there no way to find out?

I can tell you what is not the way to find out. First, you cannot find out through your experiences and perceptions. No matter what you see will not be an empirical vision of what you are. So it doesn't matter whether it's outside, whether it's inside, you're seeing some things or some beautiful garden and you are there, you're that one. You see, through whatever perception you're having, you will not find your true self. And the second is no matter how much you think. So you may think and think and think a hundred thousand times; through thinking you will never find the truth. Now if perceptions are gone and the main perception that we rely on called thinking is gone, then most will say, 'Then I have nothing left. Then how? Then how?' But first my question to you is, besides perception and thinking, is there anything else you have? What else do you have without the ability to perceive?

Consciousness.

So how is that Consciousness known? Are you perceiving it? Can you really think about it? 'I am Consciousness, I am Consciousness.' You can't do it just by saying. Nobody finds Brahman that way. So what is that ability which confirms to you? If it is being confirmed to you that you are this being, you are Consciousness, beingness, that is called intuitive insight. That is called Satguru Prasad. That is called Holy Spirit. In every culture, there is a name for it. So this intuitive guidance, this intuitive guide, Satguru, is represented initially in our life in the form of an external Master because we are so caught up in name and form that we cannot yet relate to the values that we receive formlessly. So then we need, in God's grace, God provides us an external seeming voice which is actually representing the voice of your heart. Your own heart is longing for God. So this voice is reminding you that God is real.

All of us, most of us in this room may think that God is real, but we don't live that way. We live as if 'my way or the highway.' There's no way except my way. But if God is real, then where is the space for 'me'? To some, even this seems like an attack, you see, that 'Oh, if God is everywhere, then I am not anywhere.' More than God is limited to her, it's just me and God. How absurd, isn't it? So in reality, God is all there is. But to come to this reality, we have to get over ourselves and false selves. So to come to satsang is just a way to get over ourselves. Because it is said self-realization or coming to the Self is not a new attainment that you will have. It is just the dropping of ignorance. When avidya is dropped, then it is found that existence is dropped, then the Self reveals itself or is recognized, you see. And what is this avidya? That 'I am something, I am somebody.' And in reality, what is this 'I am'? That is what we have to discuss.

Otherwise, we just get into this trap of the world of taking ourselves to be name and form. And yet something compels us to be timeless, you see. So what is the mind version of that timelessness? We build a school in our name or a performance center or something like that, you know. I mean, how it's going to be left? Whose name will that be after your body is gone? So the mind's tactics don't work. All of us want immortality, eternity, but you're trying to get it by building a legacy, by building a name for ourselves. Some people say, 'I know I've led a successful life depending on how many people come for my funeral.' You will be dead! You will not know how many people come for your funeral. So don't go with these what we call vanity metrics. It's not going to help anything at all. Come to a deathless life, come to eternal life while this body is still warm. Yeah, and I'm telling you that it is completely possible for all of you.

I'm going to stay here. Thank you for holding your hand very well. I love you for this week, today, and whatever is left of me, I want to live here. Yes, okay. Just touch your base to me. Yeah, and I don't know what to say. Thank you.

You're very welcome. You know, just before COVID, Guruji has opened certain... so we were there for a long time. And just before going, some of these Lithuanian kids, they came and met me where I was staying and somehow they liked me for some reason. So they came with me to Bangalore and they stayed in this building. We've got a house. And then soon after they came, COVID happened and lockdown. So all these kids from Lithuania got stuck in this building for how many months? Six months? Three months. We had nothing, no option but to do anything except... and we were not having satsang also. We were just doing batcheet because everything... you're supposed to keep our houses closed, no gathering. So then these... how many of you were there? Seven? Sixteen. It's beautiful.

In this building, we've got a house, and then soon after they came, COVID happened and lockdown. So all these kids from Lithuania got stuck in this building for how many months? Six months? Three months. Three months we had nothing, no option but to do anything except... and we were not having satsang also. We were just doing bhajans because everything... you're supposed to keep our houses closed, no gathering. So then these... how many of you were there? Seven? Sixteen. It's beautiful. Thank you. And it is a gift from God in this lifetime.

There's another cat. When I used to use 'me', I say 'God now' or 'meow'. That's a constant game. And the 'God now' or if you go to the 'me', then the 'ow' is going to come. So now, later, as a cat owner, I'm inspired by all the cats. Yes?

So, Father, I have a question as to how to surrender, you know, desire to get, you know, to be one with the Self or, you know, kind of the spiritual desires. So we make effort with self-inquiry. We all in our hearts want to transcend. We all know what it is; we taste it. And then we hear about, you know, Moksha and, you know, none of us has... I mean, we haven't experienced death, but we all feel intuitively that we want to transcend. But then there is also a set of desires and, you know, you kind of take shape as the seeker, and that becomes the obstacle. So can you guide us into how to let go?

What happens usually is that we come to a point in our life, usually because of some suffering or something like that, that we want to leave all the other desires behind and we want... the only desire that seems to remain is finding ourselves or finding God in whichever way. So that becomes the most potential desire at that point, and in a way, at the altar of that desire, all the other desires are burned, you see. So provisionally, it may be helpful, and many masters actually, they say like that: just have one desire, which is God. Now, this is fine till you come to a point where you've come to a discovery of the presence within yourself. Now you start to recognize that anything that I hold on to, even grasping for God itself, will just be a grasp. Okay?

So instead of utilizing the instrument of the mind and sticking with desire, switch it out to living in the way of the heart. So live in the way of the heart moment to moment. Besides that, just like every desire, it is thought-induced. So when it comes, of course, spiritual desires can be very attractive now because they seem to resonate with the condition, the new spiritual conditioning that we have. So it's very important to let them go because if you don't let go of spiritual desires, the outcome of that is just spiritual ego, which is a more troublesome ego than even a worldly ego. We can suffer a lot more due to our spiritual ego than we can due to any other ego for money or status or for anything else because what happens is we become completely closed, you see, in the spiritual ego. And that's why I attack it relentlessly if I notice it's happening somewhere, because we become completely closed to receiving guidance even from the master. You come to a point where we start saying, 'No, no, I am just living from my heart and I don't have to listen to him' and you know, this kind of stuff.

But I want to make sure that with all of you, I give you all the tools, keep pointing you back to your true Satguru, so we don't get caught into any spiritual ego, spiritual desires. Because the result, the spiritual outcome according to the mind... the spiritual outcome according to the heart... the spiritual outcome according to the mind is basically the representation of Ravan, okay? All-powerful, very highly spiritual, knew all the... had done great everything, and God had granted him a lot of gifts also. But the pride, you see, he was never let go of. And the other is the true spirituality, the humility of Lord Ram, you see, which is empty of specialness. Everything is... being an Avatar of God himself, to live a life of such humility is an amazing example for all of us.

So the thing with Ravan is that it became like a conceptual spirituality. Even in the representations on TV that we saw, some of us saw when we were younger, you would say, 'But God is everywhere, I am also God, why should I bow down to this Ram?' So then these, especially Advaita concepts, when they are taken conceptually, then they can become very, very troublesome and very full of pride and arrogance. So it's very important to let go of our spiritual desire because if you keep following a mental spiritual desire now, the outcome is going to be the spiritual ego, a very magnified sense of the limited self. And that... like we know all the right stuff there, but somewhere in our heart we recognize that we are not living authentically, you see? We are just living in an image of what we should be living. And many masters, many gurus fall into that trap also, which is like after a point they get stuck, then they feel like, 'Oh, now I have to put up this front, put up this image.' So often I've said that I would not wish that life on an enemy, you see, of a life of being a fake spiritual teacher. Because it may seem all glamorous and fun and all of that, but that is the most aggressive life, to present an image to people that you're calling your children and meeting every day. What kind of life that is, to act in front of your own family? It's not a good life.

So just if you're starting to feel that, if any of you are starting to feel that you know, or you're right, you know better, you see, those are the symptoms, those are the signs. And I have to keep doing my job properly to keep chopping it when I see it. Live like you don't know anything in your head, because we actually don't know anything. You know? That is where we can create the room for God's guidance to come.

Yeah, I mean, how do you, you know... do you actually hear, you know, to hear an instruction or to... how? And can you just do it? So like you sent a message saying that you wanted to meet. I didn't know what the answer is going to be. Then in the morning, I picked up my phone and started typing. So that happened this way. And other times it could have come that I could have heard it from my heart saying, 'Let's make it tomorrow' or this time or this day. So both ways, you see. For in the beginning, I would suggest just open and empty, you see? As you get used to living open and empty, then a life starts to flower so beautifully. Then God provides guidance that can be heard in some way, palpable in some way, but we must not rush into that too much. It'll happen very, very organically. Thank you.

Okay. Um, I was... I'm getting tempted by this idea that if I know who I am, if I am, if awareness is evident, then the mind can't tempt me also. Just can't come there.

You're getting tempted by the mind about the idea that the mind won't tempt you? Yeah, yeah. Don't... like somewhere, like just a thought. It's not true. No thought is true. Even the words of the tongue are not true. They are just mere pointers, just pointing to that which cannot be spoken about. So truth and thought, or truth and... imagine that you're trying to explain love to someone who's never experienced it, and you're trying to... what words can you use? So that which is the source of even love, that is the truth, capital T. So what words can really describe that? Sorry.

So, and we've done this many, many times. Try to represent this in a thought right now, this moment. In the thought, tell me a true representation of this. Okay? And then taste the difference between meeting this in pure perception and meeting it, 'Oh, I am in satsang and there are some people sitting,' compared to just... so that sort of thought, what it does is it takes all this beauty of God's light and makes a kindergarten book out of it. Simplistic, primitive stuff. And then what happens? What is the bane of all of this? That we take these simplistic, primitive narratives to be true about the story of our life.

Um, this was another thing like I noticed like a couple of days ago. For the first few times, I was able to really stay with the being for a long four hours together. But still, there was somebody, a notion of somebody who's staying there, you know? 'Stays there' is still a trial, there's still a will, trial and achiever, you know?

Yeah, so allow that to just... follow what I'm saying. All this happened only thought by thought. So you're saying that 'I remain empty,' but then the thought came, 'Oh, I'm remaining empty, this is good.' Yeah, yeah. Just let them go. It's not that serious. Nothing... it's not happening organically. Identification is not happening organically, as much as it may seem that it happens organically. But the thing is that this... you have to go to the ATM and withdraw the misery.

Like, it's not so much the misery also. It's just that there's still the possibility... if I were like following instructions, 'Stay with God,' there is still the opportunity there for the mind to come in. And if somehow, like if I were to ask myself, 'Just am I aware?'

That is why it doesn't matter if you were empty. Now. Now. Now. Now.

Is that... is it that the same as asking myself 'Am I aware?' Like, I'm like thinking, like, is it that I should do that exercise? Like, you know, instead of asking... like instead of staying with the presence, like maybe this will also work, like 'Am I aware?'

Yes, we mean I'm clear and be guided from your heart because there's no... you're beyond the template, templatization stage. Template... there's no prescription like that saying three times a day you take this medicine. Yeah, I can always cut it. No, it's not... we have to come to a point where we are just guided moment to moment. This... many options.

I think I am still going on that template, that awareness is the best.

Drop all those ideas and just remain empty. And that way we don't know what to do. Nobody knows. I don't know what to do. I never know what to answer someone. I've never known anything, and yet the heart is taking care. It's very beautiful actually that so many years of so many satsangs and I've never known any good answers to anything. Yeah, it just arises in the heart. It's leaving the template now.

And then if I were to ask myself 'Am I aware?' and that's a template...

That's also a template. Leaving the template now. Template... I'll give you the template: as much as possible, be in the moment. And there are many distractions in the world which can keep you away from being in the moment. I won't spell them out; I'm sure you already... so try to as much as possible try it or not. What is that? And let God guide you moment to moment and enjoy your heart. Can I do... if you don't know what to do here, your life will not go to waste, you see? That is when your life will start to flower, which is the opposite of what the world believes. This is it. Let's be comfortable. Feel it. Yeah.

Um, how does one, um, stop fearing? Fearing people, situations, consequences. How does one stop that fear?

So let's first look at how do I get into fear. I mean, let's go really slowly. So suppose somebody scary comes into that door, right? Then emotion comes out of fear. Now, in just the watching of it, what is happening? How long does it last? It appears, lingers. You see, they linger longer than thoughts. They don't just come and go like that. It feels... they linger. They may leave even an aftertaste also. But unjudged, uninterpreted. 'Why does this happen to me? This is so unfair.' No narrative building. Okay? Then everything is that. In that way, now I'll tell you that in our tasting of these emotions, we have never experienced the same emotion twice. There are millions of emotions, you see. Just in our mind, we can hold only a few categories of this: anger, fear, lust, greed, you know, this kind of thing. But actually, just like we can never step into the same river twice, we do not experience the same thing twice. And based on how our mind interprets it, we take that to be true. So Guruji uses this very beautiful example. He says that suppose you had stage fright and you suddenly had to speak to a thousand people in the audience. If that emotion comes, you say, 'Oh, I'm...'

Millions of emotions, you see. Just in our mind, we can hold only a few categories of this: anger, fear, lust, greed, you know, this kind of thing. But actually, just like we can never step into the same river twice, we do not experience the same thing twice. And based on how our mind interprets it, we take that to be true. So, Guruji uses this very beautiful example. He says that suppose you had stage fright and you suddenly had to speak to a thousand people in the audience. If that emotion comes, you say, 'Oh, I'm so nervous, this is bad, I know I'm going to get over this,' all this. But in another circumstance where you're going for a holiday and you're looking forward to it, you may have a very similar vibration, but you say, 'I'm so happy, I'm so excited. You see, this is so good, I've been waiting to experience this feeling.' So we live less on the meeting of the perception or the sensation and more on what the mind is interpreting that to be. And that causes all the trouble.

Now I want to give you a tip, which is that nothing can come in the realm of perception which can actually hurt you. You see, what we are affected by is the way we place it in our narratives, what meaning we give it. That's why my advice to everyone—if 'open and empty' seems a bit too strange initially—then just remain in pure perception. Pure perception means you're not against meeting the world; everything can naturally appear, but you are not judging it, you're not interpreting it, you know, stories. And it is only the stories that keep you up at night. The thing that is perceived actually cannot keep us up. Everything can actually dissolve, you see? But what keeps us up is trying to solve, trying to resolve, trying to fix, you see? And once we start learning how to just believe in the natural intuitive intelligence, then we learn to trust and let go. So we don't worry so much about what the mind is blabbering about.

Wow, what is beating your heart right now? What is making your breath happen? Is it intelligence which is running apparently millions of processes even in one body, no? So if you had to pick between what the mind is telling you versus this intelligence—which let's call intuitive intelligence or God's light or whatever term you want to give it—all of us will actually pick this. Now, okay, my experiment to all of you is: check the boundary of this, okay? Check the boundary in the sense that there is something where we say that God cannot do all this, intelligence can't do that, I have to do. So for some time—one day, one week—let's see what fails if I just trust this intelligence over trusting my mind, you know?

That's good. Only thing that is more practical: so if I have to respond to a message which I'm trying to avoid, there are two ways to solve it. One is mongering peace, broken peace, and the other is to just shut it away right now. I don't know which one is the intuitive intelligence that's playing up, which is the mind, and what is the... or maybe both are mind. But what is that? What would intuitive intelligence look like if I have to respond or not respond?

In the beginning of this question, you had a thought about the broad framework of this question, yeah? But the exact words that came, you had not planned. Yeah, even like right now you're shaking your head, you're not planning or thinking about doing this, right? It's just intuitively it is flowing. So that natural intelligence which is listening to these words, you see, test the boundaries of that. My proposal to you is that it can run your whole life and you don't have to bother so much about this one, the social media.

If someone asks me if they should be emotionally driven or rationally driven, I would tell them: be rationally driven. So that 'head to heart' is not what I'm saying. I am talking about the Atma, the other voice, the holy presence within you. The Atma is present within you. It is not... so many people say, 'No, I'm not head, I'm all heart.' Yeah? What they're actually saying is they just go with their emotions. So when they're angry, they're angry; when they're full of lust, they're full of lust. They're just following all their emotion and their life is usually havoc. So, but I'm not talking about that heart. I'm talking about God's presence, that presence that is running this life. You can meet that only once we start to let go. We start to let go, you see?

So like this, he just said it sounds like a very simple thing, but that is my main teaching now, which is that the lane is too narrow, okay? There can be God or me. If there is me, there is no place for God. If there is God, there is no me. What is the original one? But basically, the gali is very narrow, yeah.

Is it the path of least resistance? No? Is it that?

No, sometimes once you start hearing God's guidance, it may seem like the most difficult thing to do. Your mind can offer, in fact, solutions. It is always trying to propose things which are... yeah. So as we follow this, sometimes we find our steps moving in this direction which is not the most easy. And sometimes we are guided, no, rushing into that. First we have to start to live in view of ourselves and then once the guidance comes, sometimes it's very, very tough. So it's not a pathway to an easy life, but it is a pathway to a simpler life in the sense that the choice is simple between head and heart. But what the heart is guiding you probably may not always seem easy. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you.

She was talking yesterday about the inability of narratives to really define our lives. And she reads a lot, she's an amazing reader, so she's read a lot of Nietzsche. And I was telling her to read some Derrida also if she wants. But all of this is making it clear to her at her age also that these narratives are just very timid, dim sort of representations of her life, which is much broader, much vaster than our mind can encapsulate it.