True Life Happens When We Meet God, When We Come to Atma Darshan - 16th February 2026

His presence or the Guru. The true Guru is the one in the heart. The Atma in the heart. The Guru is called the bringer of light or the remover of darkness. You see? Now what kind of light is it? Some technology? It's not light like this. It is a holy light in which we can see God's presence. And in that holy light of God's presence, we can recognize that which is beyond all being and not being. Beyond all birth and death, beyond all darkness and light. So the outer Guru is just a servant of that inner Guru, the true bringer of light. Thank you.

Why do we have to make this distinction between the outer and inner Guru?

Outer is perceptible and inner is imperceptible. But more importantly, the outer can just send you to the right place to meet the true one. The outer cannot make it happen within your soul. Cannot make the meeting happen within your soul. Nobody has that kind of power. If they did, then everyone would know. Every Guru loves their disciple. So you would say, 'You got it. You got it. You got it.' He is just present.

Why does it happen in the presence of the outer Guru so easily?

Because then this is the replica that I speak about—the replica to give you the taste, to seed the taste of the holy fragrance in your heart. So that you become familiar with that, you learn to trust that, because otherwise without that replica, without that miniature meeting, we may get lost when we visit our insides. We may not know which scent to follow. You see? So with Alan also, first time it happens that you try to make him find it, but if he's not used to the smell, then he doesn't know how to search. You see, so first you make him smell the treat, then he can find it. So in a way, it is like that. So you get a smell of it, and once you learn to recognize the fragrance of it, then you can follow that same fragrance in your heart to its source, which is leading you to God's presence.

Something very beautiful I heard Swami Ram suggest: that if Guru and Gobind are both standing, you see, then whose feet will I touch first? And it is said that I will touch the Guru's feet because he is the one who showed me God. But he said that suppose that he or she doesn't show you God? The touching of the Guru's feet, if it is first, if he shows you God, if he shows you Krishna, if he shows you the Lord in your heart, then he is worthy of that gratitude and reverence. You see, but without that, when the project ceases to be about God, then we have lost our way. Then we have lost our way.

Now at least here, and probably I can speak for all outer teachers, they cannot make the Atma Darshan happen for you. They can bless you with it. They can point you to it. But when the eyes of the heart will open up for you to meet the holy presence, and when that holy presence will gift you the Darshan of the highest, that is only God's grace. So he said that the Guru is the one who—in India, you know, everywhere actually—so we just had a big fat Indian wedding. So when the marriage happens, we weren't there for this part of course, but when the marriage happens, then there is a priest which is making the marriage happen, you see, who's doing the ceremonies. And this is most cultures and traditions. So he said that the Guru's role is like that; the outer Guru's role is like that of the marriage priest. But the relationship that's being formed is between ourselves and God.

I like this analogy. I like this analogy because sometimes we may feel like that is devaluing our teacher. It is not devaluing because without the priest the wedding can't happen. You see, so it is more than sufficient value. So basically an enabler, a catalyst to help us walk on this path of holy matrimony, holy union of our soul with God. What is our soul without this matrimony? What are we without this matrimony?

The hungry ghost.

The hungry ghost. Yes. Yes. Yes. The hungry ghost. Zombie life. And I often wonder whether these things that I say or come up in Satsang to say are exaggerations. And I look at this one, it sounds very scary. But it's not an exaggeration. It's not an exaggeration at all. What am I implying by it? I'm implying that true life hasn't actually sprouted in us because all we take ourselves to be is this flesh and blood worldly object, and we take the world, everything around us, to be worldly phenomena, and we think that is the extent of what is. But the true life which is beyond all of this is not met. You see, so initially we try to become a better zombie by trying to use God to make our worldly life better. 'Oh God, please give me more money. God, please give me better relationship.' You see, but all of these things are not about any reality, not about any true life. True life happens when we meet God. When we come to Atma Darshan.

So we meet in Satsang for this holy ceremony where this priest is sitting trying to get you married. The groom is always ready. The groom is always ready. We may not believe that, but your faith tells you that. But this groom has one condition. What is that? That you must love the groom more than the world. You must be interested in the groom more than the world, and not just in lip service. Your life has to be a symbol of that. Your life has to represent that. How can we represent that in our lives? What is the sign of love?

Empty.

Wait. Empty. Okay. Or a constant remembrance. Constant remembrance. Or a dispassion for anything which is not the groom. A detachment. An absence of attachment or a grasping at worldly things. So any of these conveys our love. No, our love doesn't have to be just in the same way. The serious interest only in the truth about who you are is also a conveying of that love because that groom is really who you are ultimately. So our one-pointed endeavor to find out the reality of who I am is also conveying that same love. You see, so how many ways are there to convey this love? Millions. And for each one, we will carve our own pathway. So what stops the bride? One thing only.

One thing.

One thing. God also is that I'm trying to do it with my head. That took a long time for me to get to, that I'm trying to get it with the mind.

Yes.

I thought any trying is trying with the mind.

Yeah. So wanting, let's look at this very closely. As long as we are wanting anything for 'me', it can get in the way. You see, now when we say 'I really want God', then that may do a cleanup operation first, which is to clean up like 'I don't want worldly things. I don't want money. I don't want relationship. I don't want the best body. I don't want any of these things. I want God.' So, initially it may do that. But many times we are not able to let go of this 'me' that wants God. You see, we want God for myself. You see, instead of offering. What is the sign of true love? You see that 'I am yours.' And so making that sincere offer that 'I belong to you, my heart is yours alone.' And then in faith you may recognize that He is also yours alone. But it cannot be the other way around: 'When you give yourself to me fully, then I will fully hand over myself to you.' So we used to say earlier: not God for me, but me for God. Or God for God's sake.

For those of us in committed relationships or marriages, does it seem like 50/50? Does it seem like both have to work on it 50/50? No. It always seems like the one that we have to do is 100%. Both ones will see we are doing 100%. You see? So in the same way, we have to offer ourselves not 50, but 100. Are you willing to do this now? Your mind may be telling you, 'But I have been willing to do this for a long time.' But is it true in the sense that now your love for another, your love for anything in the world, must be only because of your relationship with God?

We took the example of the faithful husband. Huh? Should we get everyone to get notebooks? So the sages have told us that... okay. So let's, because we are talking about groom and bride, let me keep it the same so that it doesn't confuse. But I'm not trying at all to be gender biased or sexist in this. So the most faithful wife is the most faithful wife when her relationship is only with the husband. Yes, her interest is only the beloved. Now almost at that same level of faithfulness is the wife who has other relationships, but they are because the husband is related to them. You see, so she loves the husband's younger brother as a younger brother. She loves the husband's parents as her parents. Now is that the construct of our relationship with God? Getting it?

So either our heart belongs only to Him and we have eyes only for Him, or we reflect that love that we feel for Him in the world also because they are our brothers and sisters in God, not independent of that. You see, and the Sanatana at least on paper is the best way to represent that. You see, because what is our relationship with each other? We are brothers and sisters in God. Now suppose that 'in God' was taken away; as brothers and sisters, it's not something that will work out. It's not something that works; it just doesn't work. You see, so Kierkegaard said love is love only when it is about God. So how to get married to God is that every relationship must be seen through the lens of relationship with Him. I'm tied to Him. Where He takes me, I go. He sends a brother in front of me; my job is to love him because he's also a child of God. But I don't want anything independent of God with him or her. You see, am I expressing it fairly all right? And that can be scary to us, and if it is scary to us, then we should not say that my heart is only for God. Then if we split our heart between Maya and God, then we are keeping the groom waiting. He's a patient groom, but we are running out of time.

Father, what does it mean, 'rather wants anything with him or her outside of God'?

Yes. Yeah. So what is the construct of our worldly relationships now? Is it about me and you? Or is it me with God, you with God, therefore me and you brothers and sisters or whatever you want to call that? No. So shining in His love alone, expressing His love alone, having interest in deepening His project alone to spread His light alone then becomes our life.

Scary. For some reason right now it feels too vast to comprehend.

Yes. And that happens with most new things that are introduced in Satsang.

What is the construct of our worldly relationships now? Is it about me and you? Or is it me with God, you with God, therefore me and you brothers and sisters or whatever you want to call that? No. So, shining in His love alone, expressing His love alone, having interest in deepening His project alone to spread His light alone then becomes our life.

For some reason right now it feels too vast to comprehend.

Yes. And that happens with most new things that are introduced in satsang. And then they start to deepen in us and we start to contemplate them more deeply. And then we start to get a deeper and deeper sense of these things and our heart will guide us on all of this.

This is to be only after the Atma Darshan is done? To be attempted?

No. No. Why?

Just assumption until... what is the assumption?

Yes. So on assumption you come to satsang twice a week. Is it? Yes. Now that may be true for, let's say, even say how long have you been coming?

Five years.

So you may say, 'Okay, first one year I give it a chance, I'm just purely going on assumption,' you see. Now is it true for years two to five? It could be, but it's highly unlikely that something in your heart has not already started to call you in. And following that heart call is not an assumption anymore. You see, now you can't explain it or you can't express it or you can't say why it is happening. In fact, you said, 'I didn't want to come but my bike took me to satsang.' What is that? That is not bike, that is heart, you see. So is following the calling of the heart an assumption or is it faith? It seems to the mind hocus pocus. You see, but faith is invisible. Faith has no evidence. So without perceptible evidence, when we follow something that we may call a deeper calling, then we call that faith. So in that faith we do this work. In that faith we do this work, not on the basis of an assumption.

Now that perceptual darkness, which is our constant companion on this project at least for the first many years, can be met with a sense of fear or can be met with a sense of wonder. Maybe both. Maybe all cannot be there without fear and also that it is risky because, like you said, to the mind it sounds like an assumption only and what if that assumption is wrong? So it can sound like a big risk. Yes. Because when you go inward, when you turn inwards, we meet perceptually when we come to the origin point of attention, which is the maximum we can turn inwards. Then what do you find there? When attention is returned to its womb, you find only perceptually darkness, isn't it? You're not seeing any fireworks, you see. And if you're seeing fireworks, you have to ask who witnesses that and go deeper within.

So in that perceptual darkness, what do you make out of it? If you have to spend sixty years of your life just sitting at that holy doorway, but you are not calling it a holy doorway yet. You see, I'm saying that is the holy doorway where you wait, the temple of God, the door to God's temple. But when we are there, we are not seeing any door there because perceptually it is empty, or it's not empty, it's dark. Meeting this... I mean, now can we really sit here in that holy place if we have tied ourselves up to so many things in the world? Do it because the mind will say, 'What about this? What about that?' So use God's name and use the self-inquiry to first cut those cords. So cut those cords. And I say first, I'm not saying it's a linear process. Attempting to go meet God in our heart will give us the strength to cut those cords more, and cutting those cords more will bring us to God more. But many of us are not even attempting to meet God. They're not doing the eating. If you're doing the cooking, both cooking anything... a priest can only tell you, 'Walk this way, do this, do that.' You see, the priest cannot make the marriage happen, or let's say the priest cannot make the love which is needed for the marriage happen. We have to cut the cords with Maya. We have to offer our heart to God.

So it's challenging for both the bride and the priest. You may say, 'Why is it challenging for the priest?' You see, it is challenging for the priest because many times the priest may forget about God. So if the priest has forgotten about God and made it about the priest, then what's going to happen? No marriage. Or worse still, if the priest says, 'Marry me only,' then what will happen? That's the worst. You know, then that is the priest preempting God's place. The priest buying their own PR in a way. You see, it is natural for the bride to have a lot of reverence and gratitude for the priest. But if the priest starts to accept it for himself or herself instead of remembering that he's just a priest offering it to God... it's a huge privilege to be the priest. It's a huge privilege, you see. But the ego is not happy with the hugest privilege. It wants bigger, no, whatever it gets.

So, so many times, and it is seen in the world often, that the priest then forgets about God and starts to make it about themselves. And remember what Ram Sukhaji said, that 'I bow down to the Guru first because he shows me God.' But if God is forgotten, then we must not bow down to the Guru first. Is the priest a priest if he cannot make the marriage happen? He's not a priest at all. So what is the requirement for the priest? What is the requirement for priesthood? You may say Atma Darshan, recognition of the Self, but I would say more than anything, an insane love for God. An insane love for God. Everything else will be taken care of in that. Then the eyes will not easily switch out from God to the 'me.' So the priest needs to, in the words of a famous author, have a crazy love, a crazy love for God. See, and I feel like without that, the sanctity of this process cannot be kept safe.

Easy, because a priest also has been given the same infrastructure as the bride. What do I mean by that? The same thing. No body, senses, emotion, thought, everything. The Antahkarana is the same. So the capacity to fill the glass with world or Maya or fill it with God is there equally in bride and priest. You see, now the priest is one who has walked this path before and fallen deeply in love with the groom. That then keeps the sanctity of the process safe because if your soul is not filled with the light of spirit, then what am I as your teacher doing? Now, if you said to me, 'Yes, yes, not filled with God's light, but I do care about you a lot,' what should I do with that? My relationship with you is only because of my relationship with God. I am His faithful bride. Now if you say that you want to make a separate relationship with the bride, the bride has no interest in that.

You see, so if the priest—sorry if I'm taking this analogy too far. Is it helping or is it gone too confused? If the priest is to help the bride marry the groom, then the priest has to be himself, herself, a very faithful bride. That is the prerequisite. And that's why when we talk about, when I rant about a godless spirituality, I rant about it because the true groom in this story has been forgotten. You see, so somebody asked Swami Ram Sukhaji that how is it that God allows all these teachers who end up making it all about themselves, either maliciously or just being stuck in pride? How is it that God allows them to become so popular? You see, and remember that Swami Ram Sukhaji had this conversation probably in the 1970s or 80s before social media, YouTube, all of these things. And Ram Sukhaji said that it is because of these things that this is called Kalyug, the age of darkness. So he says that if they did not become popular, then this would not be the age of darkness. You see, so we must not worry about... like, we must not take popularity as a sign of priesthood. I'm not saying that it cannot be. Remember, I'm not saying that. I'm only saying that popularity itself does not determine priesthood. Does not mean that the priest cannot become ever popular.

So the priest has set the holy light alight; the bride is sitting there. But while waiting for the groom, if the bride is constantly distracted, then the priest will say, 'Forget about that. Forget about that. Forget about that. Focus, focus on the True One.' Now in most of these ceremonies there is a competitive lover who arrives, isn't it? You know, the bride is sitting on the mandap. What is mandap in English? Whatever, ceremonial space. And the priest is making all the mantras, then like a typical Indian movie, the lover shows up. 'Why you want to marry that one? I will give you what you want. I will keep you happy. Everything you could desire is with me.' Who is that lover? That is Maya. So this is what happens, especially for those in satsang. This will come often in various forms. And I used to sit in satsang, then I would get the best sounding, in my mind, the best sounding business ideas. That's these kind of distractions for everybody will come.

Now remember that what may be most attractive for the bride is to be the groom. Not be the groom like as true being, but to be seen as the groom. What's a good way to put that? Spiritual pride, which takes the heart oneness and makes it a conceptual oneness. We've seen that often over the years. 'Why should I inquire? I am That. Why should I pray? I am That.' And what did Ravan say? 'Why should I bow down? I am That.' So when the bride says for various things, one, 'I'm too frustrated, I'm trying to offer myself for so long, the groom is not coming, what should I do?' Then somebody comes and tells her, 'But you are the groom.' Is it a lie? It isn't a lie. Is it the truth? Yet it isn't the truth. You see, but imagine the relief that we find. You're waiting for the groom. You're saying, 'I'm offering myself over and over. It seems difficult. It seems like a battle like the Mahabharat every day between Maya and Atma every day.' And someone comes and says, 'Forget it. You are That.' Huh?

So now this conversation could be the conversation between Janak and Ashtavakra. So Janak, upon hearing 'I am That,' fell into his heart and came to Atma Darshan and saw that his reality is That. You see, all this conversation could be taken mentally: 'I am That.' Now, now talk to me. I have got it embedded in my head that I am That now, you see. Now any teacher will find it very difficult to get through to you. 'I feel you should pray, my child.' 'What? I don't want this low pointing. I am That,' you see. 'Who is this I? I know I am That,' you see. So spiritual pride is made up of spiritual knowledge which is true in the heart. But if it goes in the wrong place, it can get deeply embedded as spiritual pride.

So the difference between a truth and lie is not in spirituality. The difference between truth and lie is not in the factual veracity of it. It is in the mode of instrument of knowledge. Mode of knowledge. And if you want to see this affliction, go to any chai shop in Tiruvannamalai. If you wait for half a day or something, you'll at least come across one or a few who have this affliction, or at least they used to. But you can sense the fear and the need to convince, which are not signs of blackness. Those are kinds of safety in numbers. 'If I can convince a hundred people that I am That, then maybe I will also start to believe that more as a deeper conviction.' And that's why it's important to constantly make the distinction between belief and faith.

And we probably believed by repetition.

Yes. See, exactly.

Father, that risk will always be there. Head and heart, there's no foolproof way to... that is the risk.

The risk will always be there, or the risk was actually never there. What is the risk? To live this whole life as a zombie is the only risk. Now what will seem risky to the zombie? It will constantly seem risky to his zombiness because that's all we know at that point. All we know is a zombie life. Like in Plato's cave, all we know is the life of the shadows. Now somebody says, 'Go and see in the sun, your life is very different.' See, but that sounds very risky because what happened to my life as a shadow, isn't it? Now the feeling of risk is always about the shadow life.

The risk to live this whole life as a zombie is the only risk now. What will seem risky to the zombie? It will constantly seem risky to his zombiness because that's all we know at that point. All we know is a zombie life. Like in Plato's cave, all we know is the life of the shadows. Now somebody says, 'Go and see in the sun; your life is very different.' See, but that sounds very risky because what happened to my life as a shadow, isn't it? Now the feeling of risk is always about the shadow life. The other side, conceptual—all that is the shadow life. No. Who is the me? The shadow. No. No, what am I saying?

Take your time. But what I'm saying is that the me is just the shadow.

You see, now there are these prisoners who have been tied up at the end of the cave and they see the end of the cave. Now when the sun passes through that, the light of the sun passes through that cave during the day, it changes the angle. So the shadows seem to move and that seems to be the life of the me. You see, so this spiritual path of walking towards the mouth of the cave and coming into the sun itself can sound like a risky project. You see, so how to retain the life as we knew it and yet come to the truth? Can't do it. That's why it's always going to be risky.

Although presumably one can overcome Maya.

Yes.

And that risk will always be there.

Yes. Absolutely.

You have to take that risk and somehow trust that the Satguru will take care.

Yes. And if by God's grace we have the right priest with us, then he can keep telling us, 'No, this is the wrong one, you should leave. I'm not going to let this marriage happen.' Which one is processed? If it is the sweetest thing and it was ever sweetening, ever deepening, would we want a conclusion or what would we want? What is the promise of a worldly marriage to us?

Yeah, 'till death do us apart,' 'happily ever after.'

Yes. But the highest promise of a worldly marriage is that we keep deepening in our love for each other. I'm saying promise. That is what is promised to be. But actually, without God, it's not possible. Because if there are two zombies, how much will they deepen in love for each other? I am this flesh bucket, you are that flesh bucket. Once the allure of the flesh is gone, then what's going to happen? So without a deeper insight, that ever-deepening love is not possible.

You see, so what is one of the things which I'm working on at the moment? I realized that I want all my relationships to be because of my relationship with God. Now my children, at least when they talk to me, are not so interested in satsang, not interested in God. So then am I saying that now I should leave my children because that relationship is not about God? I feel like to pray for them to become godly, to pray for them to turn towards God, may be a better alternative. So we still make the relationship about God but not with the idea that—and maybe in some expressions, I don't know the full story, but apparently Buddha left, so maybe for the greater good, who knows these things. But in my case, what comes more clearly is that I can pray. I can pray and from my side try to make it as much about God as possible at the cost of extreme irritation on their end.

So with our brothers, sisters, for those of us especially in householder lives, I would offer this: to pray for our parents, brothers and sisters, wives, children. But those of us who have been blessed in that way, there are many blessings of the householder life also. But those who are blessed with the non-householder life can really dive deep into this. You see, and you know that you have friends who are deeply involved in worldly attachments and every time you spend time with them, you feel like getting into lust and pride and money and all of these things. Then we can continue to pray for them. But don't immerse yourself too much in that unless your heart is guiding you in the way that you feel like your presence can help them change.

Can you give an example maybe about what you're talking about now? Can you maybe give an example about what you're talking about, the relationships?

Yeah, so I'm saying that in worldly relationships, there are those relationships where we are deeply bound in them, like we are parents or we are children. So I'm not proposing anything drastic and saying leave everyone who is not interested in God. I'm just saying that we must pray for them and may God bring them to the end of their zombie life. And we must never—the idea is not to go and tell them, 'Don't you know you're stuck in a zombie life and I'm the only one full of light, you're so zombie-like.' That is not the idea. But just to bless their heart with the light of spirit like that.

But there are some relationships we just carry on for social things, just carry on for some social sort of fulfillment or to be seen in society or something like that. Now we truly have to be heartfelt about this and say, what happens in that company? Tulsidas Ji said at the beginning of the Ramcharitmanas that kusang, bad company, is probably one of the worst things in the world. What is bad company? Bad company is that which pulls us into Maya, which makes Maya seem more attractive. And he said that the satsang is the best gift in this world, which is that which pulls us in more towards God.

Now in this case, I'm not saying at all that we must leave all that makes us worldly. I'm saying that many times we have to enter the world to make a difference in the world. So if you feel like with your friend there's an opportunity to talk about God, you can open them up to God, then that's very good. But if you feel like it's constantly pulling you into Maya, then really evaluate in your heart whether that relationship is worth your spending time on. Because both the life of the light of Atma and the life of a zombie, both are contagious.

Sometimes that's the poke or the trigger here. I realized maybe what happened back with my sister last week, and I think that maybe there is a desire within that God will prevail in every interaction. And I'm feeling in some circumstances where the other one is louder, I fail at making this space fully available for God, to make it about God in those circumstances, because resistance comes to the ways of the others when they are just too much for me. I don't know if that was clear.

Yes. Yes. Yes. This is true.

I felt that there was a bit of suffering there, a little bit, because it's hard for silence to prevail over noise when God feels shaky, like it does here sometimes.

Yes. Do you feel like somewhere we are making a level distinction between being able to convince a brother or sister in words or praying for them in our heart? See what I mean? Do we feel? I feel like sometimes it can feel more instant that I wish they just understood me and I can just talk to them, they understand and they go, 'Yes, I have been in a zombie life. I'm going to turn around.' You see, and those things happen, but they happen very rarely. But the power of prayer in our heart to just pray for the brother or sister can be much more powerful at times. Why I'm saying at times is because otherwise I don't want us to chicken out by just saying, 'Okay, I can only pray for them, I can never talk.' That's not true also, but you have to be heartfelt about it.

And realize in that moment there were little moments of surrender and praying, and then yes, but the pull is so strong in those moments. And it's not like Maya in the way that you were talking about, like the way they're involved with Maya that attracts me; it's not in that way. It's in the way that attracts this one which is resistance to those words and saying, 'Can you just calm down? Can you just be silent for a second and kind?' You know?

Yes. That's a deep one. So at one level, it is natural to feel hurt when you're in a way attacked in a close relationship. You see, but at another level, it is a great opportunity to look at our pride. Now it may seem like, but where is the pride in this? You see, but the sages have told us that we cannot suffer unless there is pride. So it doesn't ever hurt to look at our pride; that can never be a harmful process.

Right. See, I could definitely see my pride, especially in the form of resistance, in the form of wanting things to be different.

Yes. Wanting things to be how we think they are better, to be better.

Yeah. And actually wanting things to be just. Wanting it to be fair.

You see, now that one line has really helped me in my life, which is: leave justice to God. I feel like as all teachers of God, as future teachers of God, which all those who are coming to God's light will be, we must know that He is very merciful and we can safely leave all justice to Him. And I'm not talking here about social justice, which we can leave to God, but it's many times our duty also to try and make a difference in society. I'm talking about personal grievances, especially because they block our love.

Yeah. I see that there's this big desire. I think it's mostly about wishing to be—

Is she an older sister or younger sister, if you don't mind my asking?

She's ten years older.

Ten years older. Now, if a ten-year younger sister comes to you—suppose you had a ten-year younger sister and she comes all like, 'I am God's light, you are...' what do you feel?

I don't say those things too much.

I know, I know. So we just have to be vigilant to any of that, any sort of pride coming up from our side. And then pride is also in attachment to my knowledge of how I think things should be. Now I'm attached to what the relationship should look like. I'm attached to how she should behave with me. I'm attached to all of these things. And to know all of these things without really knowing any of this is pride.

I think the biggest one is wanting to serve God in those moments and feeling like I'm failing, feeling like I'm carried away right now.

How do you know you want to serve God? Therefore, then you are allowing God to speak through you and you're leaving the outcome to God. Is that service to God? How do we serve God? Serving God is like sharing satsang, isn't it? That you allow God to speak through this instrument and then leave the outcome of what happens to Him alone, because the instrument cannot control any outcome. So at what point do you suffer or do you feel like you're failing?

Because I'm seeing how in those where God is strong, silence will be also over the noise. And in my case with, for example, my sister, it definitely does not apply.

I see. So I feel some—okay, let's walk through this slowly. All right, I'm not trying to hurt you at all. I'm just looking at this a little more closely and saying that I feel like you've not handed over the outcome to God in this. You see, you say you want to serve God. Now, you are serving Him for His sake, isn't it? Or are you serving Him for your sake? For His sake. Now, if you feel like you've been true to your heart and expressed from there, is the outcome any of our business? And it's very dangerous because if I, as a teacher of God, got into that judgment mode, you see, I would say, 'I have been talking to you ten years, I've been talking to you twenty years.'

You see, you say you want to serve God. Now, you are serving him for his sake, isn't it? Or are you serving him for your sake?

For his sake.

Now, if you feel like you've been true to your heart and expressed from there, is the outcome any of our business? Yeah. So, and it's very dangerous because if I, as a teacher of God, got into that judgment mode, you see, I would say, 'I have been talking to you 10 years. I've been talking to you 20 years. I've been talking to you 5 years. You see, what are you getting? Why aren't you silent yet?' You see? So, I'm just giving an external voice to something which may become like spiritual pride. But it is not our business. It is not my business to say—maybe gently to prod once in a while if I feel like somebody is not really being attentive or walking on the path correctly—maybe some gentle prodding from time to time, but it is not for me to judge them and say, 'If you were really becoming godly, then you would have changed like this, you would have done like that,' you see.

So, in those moments, I'm judging myself as much as her. It's not that I'm feeling, 'Oh, I'm being this light of God and she's not.' I'm not feeling that way at all. I'm feeling more the opposite, more like I'm failing to just allow this to be the way it is, forgive and have compassion for her moment to moment.

Yes, my child. But I don't feel like there's much difference in that. Whether you judge the appearance outside or this appearance here, I still feel like you're going to the wrong instrument to gauge the outcome of the process.

Everything.

Yes. Is God telling you you did a bad job?

I don't know. You feel like a test that I failed? No, I don't.

I feel like for this answer, you have to know in the sense that don't make a judgment till you are clear it's coming from the heart. Let me create some distance for you from this so you can look. Suppose that there are now 34 on Zoom and about let's say 20 in the room. So, 54 of you. You see, now do you feel like I can find 54 reasons to beat myself up after this satsang is over?

I mean, if you wanted to.

Exactly, exactly. You see, I would say, 'Okay, now is this one getting enlightened? Is that one getting enlightened? What's happening? Are they really falling in love with God? You see, I'm doing such a terrible job. What is happening?' You see? So then it's not possible to be a teacher of God if we are so harsh on ourselves. It's good to a certain extent to remain humble, to see that your sadhana has a long way to go. It is very good to remain humble. But if it is going to be oppressive, then I would have to stop sharing. So what would your advice to me be? I'm saying, 'Georgie, I'm just so lost, you know, because I try to share God, but nobody's becoming silent really or nobody's falling in love with God. I'm doing such a terrible job. What should I do?'

I'm ready to fight back a little further because what I see is that during satsang, you are offering God.

Yes.

And that's the difference that I felt that during that interaction with her, I was not.

But you said you were—no, you were serving God.

No, I don't think I was. No, that's not what I said.

Ah, I see. I misheard it then because I heard it right that you tried to serve God but did not have any change or nothing affected her.

No, what I meant to say was that the biggest hope was that in that interaction—as in many, not just that one, but maybe that was very representative—that I feel the poke is the desire to serve God and the feeling that I wasn't. Even during the interaction, I felt that, and then there were little moments of giving in, I stopped resisting. But then most of the time, I was either judging or resisting what was happening, and especially feeling that the loudness was prevailing over the silence because I was not able to open up to God fully.

I see. I see. How—what is the tool you were using on that day to be with God and not with Maya? During the conversation or for the day, we said that at least for the day we will have a tool which is clear for us.

Yes, sure, it's the name of God.

So at which point did you leave his name?

I don't know. I leave it all the time.

Yes, that's it. So that's what we need to practice. That's what we need to practice more and more. I know it can sound a bit unsatisfactory as an answer, but that is the whole point of the practice. When we practice in our quietitude first, so that we build those muscles, then when life comes, it shows us how much we need to deepen in our practice. So when Maya comes in the form of our relatives, our special relationships, then we seem to forget about God, and that's why we need to practice. And this is my project also. I need to work on this a lot more. So don't look at it as a poke and as too much self-judgment. Just look at it as a reminder that I need to constantly be in his remembrance. Because without his remembrance and remaining in his presence, how are we at all attempting to serve God? So if what you're saying is that with these special relationships I forget about God and get caught up in Maya, that's all our lives. We all have some special relationships like that and we have to practice more. Now you'll be astounded, especially because you call me Father and teacher and all of that, that it's at 51 now—next month 51—that I realize that spiritual practice is a practice. How stupid.

Why did you think?

I just felt like it's something that you do as a practice—no, you know what I mean? Something that we do as a practice but not like it is a practice for life. We are practicing so that we can live a life in God. I don't know if I expressed it properly. I'm sure I'm the only stupid one who didn't see that. So we're not doing a spiritual practice as a spiritual practice, you see, or at least as a spiritual practice alone. It is a practice for life. We are practicing life. It's like, why do we go to the gym? So that we can get better at the gym? No, we want to be able to live our life with a stronger body. That's why we go to the gym. Now, that's why it's called a spiritual practice. It is so that we practice when Maya is really strong around us. We practice how we will continue to be by practicing in quietitude, by practicing in focused prayer. Then we execute in day-to-day life, you see, by continuing our practice.

Father, what about moments where the name of God seems like nothing? There are moments where I feel a little bit possessed by something and I feel that saying the name is nothing. It is mechanical, is purely conceptual like that. Yeah, nothing. I don't know what this name is, I don't know nothing. Like I feel I lost my connection with God, even dualistic.

Yes. The good thing is that the name of God is like fire. It is like fire. Now, if you burn the fire with reverence, it burns. If you burn the fire just as an accident, it burns. If you just burn the fire, it still burns. So I'm making it too simplistic, of course. So even if it feels like the best I can do at this moment is just to say Ram very mechanically and dead, it's still a million times better than not saying it.

Since after the episode with my sister, I spent almost like a day and a half in a very sad state really, where I couldn't find my connection. Even my devotion or my desire for God.

Yes. The power of Maya is exhausted every time we take God's name. Exhausted not fully, but definitely exhausted even if you take God's name mechanically. Imagine that you're Maya. Okay, you're Maya and you want to just take over. You want to take over. But actually, even as Maya, you know who is the real boss. You see, you know that he is the real boss. So you're trying to take over and I'm just Ram, Ram, Ram, Ram, maybe just very casually also. And I'm not saying we must do it as casually as possible; we must do it in as heartfelt a way as possible. But if at that point it's very mechanical, then even then, as Maya, you will worry that your boss is being called, you see. You better be careful. Am I making it too simplistic?

No. No. Okay. I like that reading a bit of that book, Screwtape Letters. Is that what it's called?

Yeah.

Because then you see the side of the devil and how exhausting it must be. And it feels like it cannot win. It's so clear that the devil cannot win. It's always fighting to try to, but it cannot win. Because the good news is that the truth will prevail.

Exactly. Very good. Now imagine if Screwtape or one of his minions had to meet someone who was constantly going Jesus, Jesus or Yeshua, Yeshua, Yeshua. It's not going to make it easier for them. Okay. Also remember for all of you, I want to tell you that Maya we say as a term, or in Christianity we may say devil or demons, or in India also we say rakshasas and all of these things, but remember that these are not things that we can really encapsulate in our mind clearly. You see, it is just like—I feel Star Wars is a good way to look at it—like the dark side and the light side. So we must never get into that worrying about the construct of the dark side, of what it has. We can never, just like we can't really fathom God in our heads, we can't really fathom what the force of Maya looks like because it sounds so strange. Sometimes we say the biggest con artist is—sometimes we say it's only God dressed up in disguise to play. It's all kinds of things. But we are just using very broad, primitive constructs, words to describe that which pulls us out and brings us into a forgetfulness of God. Okay. And to take God's name in itself, even mechanically, then never brings us to a 100% full forgetfulness of God. Thank you. Okay, let's go to Parth and then to Mukti.

Can I do—Hi dear? One second. One second. There's an urgent message coming. Yes. Yeah. What do you feel like calling off satsang today? So we can—Yes. Calling off? Off. Not for now. So we can have satsang also Wednesday. So you can rest. Yes. How do you feel? It's good. We'll call soon or now. I want to hear just what they have and if it's not too strong, I'll request them to postpone to Wednesday. Thank you. Thank you. So, I know it takes some courage to even do that. So, thank you for that. Okay, let's go to Parth.

Oh, wanted to take your blessing before. Namaste, Father.

Namaste, my dear. When is the wedding?

Uh, in 3 days. So, 18, 19. Yeah, 19.

Oh, wonderful. Wonderful.

Yeah. Give me strength to surrender.

All yes. Yes. Now you better. Now you better. So all my blessings, all my love to both of you. And surprisingly, we used the wedding metaphor throughout the satsang today.

Yeah, I was listening to that.

Very good. May God bless you both so much. Fill your lives with love, peace, joy and more and more deepening love for God. Know that if you only worry about the construct of your relationship, then at some point it'll become stale. But if you both grow in God's love together, you'll come closer and closer.

Actually, I had been wondering and it was bothering me since a long time, like, what would you do if your wife thinks all this is a cult and not really something that, you know, God would want you to do? Like, I don't know how to explain it.

Yes, that's a very good question. And so what you can tell her is that—she feels satsang to be more like a cult than something—so what is the basic definition of a cult? A cult is one which is driven by fear. What is the definition of a sadhana? A sadhana is one that is driven by love. Now, when she meets Parth and Shambhavi, does she feel like they have love or they have fear? So that's what you can ask her.

Well, actually she feels left out when all of us are together with you.

Yes, that's a very good question. So what you can tell her is that she feels satsang to be more like a cult than something. So what is the basic definition of a cult? A cult is one which is driven by fear. What is the definition of a sangha? A sangha is one that is driven by love. Now when she meets Parth and Shamba, does she feel like they have love or they have fear? So that's what you can ask her.

Well, actually she feels left out when all of us are together with you. But that's not you, that's just because it's like she feels like it's a club that she's not part of. It's not such a dangerous situation. If she felt like it's a cult, which means that there's a persona at the center of it who is controlling everyone with fear, then that is a cult. But she's feeling like it's a club which she's not fully a member of yet.

Yeah, it's both actually. Like I had, you know, not about you, but we had discussed about doing programs at Isha Yoga Center, and at that time she told me that it feels more like a cult than anything spiritual. Like basically someone who is alive and for you to think he's godlike. For her, it is like, you know, like saints and all, she does not really believe in that. She thinks that, yeah, okay, God is there. She's not an atheist or something. She does not think that there is not anyone looking at us. It is not like that. But these practices and everything, yeah, that is not her cup of tea.

Now after you've said this, I feel like I'm on her camp more actually, because today satsang was about that; a lot was about that, isn't it? That what is the role of the external teacher? The external teacher's role is not to take the groom's job for themselves. The external teacher is like the priest. So the priest's job is to get the marriage to happen between the antahkarana and between the Atma so that the antahkarana can shine in the Atma's light. But if the priest starts to say, "I am the groom," then there is a problem. So tell her that I'm agreeing with her actually. And I'm not saying about anyone else. I'm not making any judgment about any other teacher. I'm just saying that if she feels like there are teachers in the world who are trying to embody or personify a body-mind entity as God and something specially godly, then I don't agree with that either.

But then, without seeking for help or like, how are you supposed to walk the path if you do not believe in the guide?

Yeah, that's why you have to trust the pandit. Trust the priest. But the priest is not Bhagwan. But what you can tell her from my side is that anytime when you have an opportunity, in full humility, I'm inviting her to meet me. I would love that actually if she agrees to that. I will only give her that much gyan as she wants. So tell her that we can meet as a family or we can meet in a satsang environment, whichever way she wants. And then if she feels like I am culty in some way, then she can give me some feedback and I'm happy to grow and learn. Because I want to tell you one thing: in this life, I could have easily gone in that direction. So it's only God's grace which has kept me hopefully safe, as far as I can tell, because we can't really see our own pride. So hopefully God's grace has kept us safe and the sangha safe where I feel like there is more love and it is not driven by fear so much. So she's very welcome to explore. She's very welcome to have a casual chat if she wants, and then if she has some concerns, I'm happy to learn from my mistakes also.

No, sure. I would love that if it happened. Shamba is here.

Hello. All set? Getting ready for the wedding? My blessings. Blessings.

Thank you, Father.

Bless all three of you so much. All my love, all my blessings. So your parents must be happy that you're not making it as exciting as Parth did.

Yeah, actually they think, you know, this is more hectic than what Parth did.

Oh yes, that's more convenient actually. Now then, bless, bless. Okay, let's go to Sergeant first. Okay, everybody in the room is starting to get tough with me. Okay, so if you're getting only monosyllabic answers, know that I've been pushed out of the room. Yes, please feel free to stop whenever.

As long as you're talking, they have no problem. But this looking of surrendering to God's will, doing God's will, feels like a very good orientation because I can't... I can't sustain anything else in terms of what to do. I don't have any other pull than to serve God somehow to the best I can or to the best He wills. But it still feels like it's mixed with some self-concern, with some concern for the worldly part, like where is money going to come from? All these words that feel personal and feel like they open a door. Into this just serving God only, it feels that door is still a bit open for some 'me' kind of concern to come in. So I'm not quite sure how to... I just have to surrender that part because I can't come out of it. Thank you.

Can you express to me what is the way in which you are following God's will? Not the action, but how? Like, you wait for your heart to nudge you and guide you as to what to do, or what is the process?

So the process is I center myself always when I feel there's some concern or some personal vibe in my system. I start to center myself and usually I'm using this exploring into experience and then seeing that it's actually only awareness is here. There's no personal self. There's only thinking, sensing, perceiving, and all of these things are nothing but awareness ultimately. And that takes some time, and then just the whole system then is just... when that knowing that only God is here, only awareness is here, is kind of stable in my feelings and in... I don't know how to say, but I'm just saying it's stable in the system, then it's just happiness and feels like there's no problem. And then I have energy and then I move a little bit, whatever. But after some time, this figuring out comes again and then I center myself again. And then figuring out comes at some point and it seems because there is this figuring out, it's like it taints... how to say it... this personal concern is not cleaned out of my system. It kind of comes up again and again and quickly it seems to kind of make things a bit blurry.

Thank you. That's good. So it sounds very nice, but one point I may have to ask is that it sounds like when you find yourself in the ditch, so to speak, just to use a harsh word, when you find yourself in the ditch, then you use like Rupert's process to get out of that ditch and you feel yourself empty again and then you allow yourself to operate from there. And then next time when you find yourself in the ditch again, then you use the process to come out. Now, in his system, is there a way that you can just make it an unceasing presence or an unceasing practice in some way?

Yeah. Well, I don't think he would call it his system at the moment. He doesn't even speak about this so much. He kind of makes it all one. He doesn't have a way, and this is just something very interesting for me, that's why I'm using it this way. But how he puts it is he says that the difference between meditation and everyday life starts to fade, starts to be one thing, because awareness just is. And by being, you always are, no matter what's happening. So then you don't lose touch with that being and being aware. But he doesn't have a practice or something specific for that. This is just my way.

The way you're using it is fine. That's fine. That's how we are supposed to, otherwise what would we do? We would have to use it in some way. So what I would say then is that when you ask yourself, whatever the process of asking yourself, and you come to the insight that it's all awareness alone, it's all awareness ultimately, that insight comes from a place which is not mind, intellect, and it is not perception, you see. Now, as much as possible, even when you're feeling a freedom from those constructions, then stay in that place—and it's not a place, of course—just where you come to that insight from, you see. Now remain there, or as Bhagwan would say, abide in that. So as you abide in that, then it does not... because this seems a bit like whiplash, you see. You come out of the worldly construct and then you remember that you are awareness and then you fall back in, you see. So I would say that, and I would agree with Rupert on that, that it becomes more and more just the regularness of our life is lived as that itself when we continue to remain in that way, you see. So do you find yourself, as I would call it in my terminology, do you find yourself remaining with the true instrument even after you are out of all those personal dimensions?

I feel it permeates my day, this orientation. It's not just like a backup when I feel bad. It feels it's there, but I still don't seem to have a direct, clear direction on what to do. And I feel the mind is just there getting that, or I do have some feelings, something that comes that feels they come from inspiration or from love. But there's doubt then. It's like, "No, but then it's like Guru Ji is here and this and then that," and then feel, "Okay, then be only with Guru Ji here, focus." No, but then it doesn't feel true enough and so it just... yeah, some figuring out, some mind is getting involved. That's basically it.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And that's why I said that at least for the day, I feel we must have a sense of when Maya, mind, 'me' is attacking, what is the immediate fallback, you see? What is the immediate fallback? Maybe it is a reminder that I am there, if you're used to practicing that, and you fall into your heart and you see from there that you are not the body, you are not the mind, you're not the world, that you are that. Then that could be the fallback. Let me create a simple picture for you. So suppose that you have fallen on the ground, you see. Now, like a bird, you've fallen on the ground, you see. So the bird then uses everything in its power to start to fly. So it goes flap, flap, flap, flap, flap. Okay? And then it starts to fly. And that initial flapping gives it a fair amount of momentum. So it goes like that, then it falls again. What I'm suggesting is that you use that initial momentum, but once you're in flight also, flap once gently, flap twice gently, so you don't go... it's not that bouncy for you, you see? So all the tools are available to you. You have so much good advice. Just see what you naturally gravitate to in your heart so that once that initial flapping gives you the momentum to leave the personal gravity, then what can keep you out of that on a regular basis so you don't fall-fly, fall-fly? Because that can seem too hectic.

Yes, yes. I'm using also the Atma. I'm using it more and more actually and it's very beautiful. But this kind of fall... because awareness doesn't fall, that's not possible. The fall is the system, my mind and emotions still functioning on the old way. Although everything is crystal clear in terms of there's nothing hidden in the way of... I've seen everything that is possible to be seen. But the core, the essence is not questionable. So in spite of that, it's almost illogically mind and feelings still behave on another operating system.

That is the whole game.

Of fall, because awareness doesn't fall. That's not—it's not possible. The fall is this: the system, my mind and emotions, still functioning on the old way, although everything is crystal clear in terms of there's nothing hidden in the way of—I've seen everything in that is possible to be seen. But the core, the essence, is not questionable. So in spite of that, it's almost illogically mind and feelings still behave on another operating system.

That is the whole game. What you defined is the construct of the whole game between the Atma and Maya, isn't it? That nothing has really happened to Nirguna Brahman; nothing can ever happen. So from that construct, then we never need to flap at all because we are that, you see. But in our experience, we find that on our inside—whether you call it the soul, you call it Antahkarana, whatever you want to call it—it has the capacity to attach to worldly belief systems, mind's narratives about who we are, and has the capacity to identify itself to be just a body-mind and not awareness. And this is the problem that the sages have dealt with and given us solutions as to not to attach to these narratives. Whether it is to look and to conclude that awareness alone is, or to say 'not this, not this, not this,' or to ask 'who am I?' or to stay with God's name, whatever it is to snap us out of that capacity to take ourselves to be limited, you see. Now, so we cannot say that, 'Oh, when I was in the ditch, then I needed to flap because something happened to awareness, but later I never need to flap because nothing happened to awareness then.' So, we need it when we ditch. We can also use it when we are in flight. There is no problem in that. So that's my simple advice to you that, of course, use it when we are fallen, when we all forget and we have to use it, and then when we are throughout—even if when the person is not feeling very oppressive or strong—just keep following regularly so that then it's not so much of a roller coaster experience.

Thank you for that. That's—I'm going to apply this as much as I can. Just one more thing about this. What can—because there is this—

See, his throat is as bright as mine. So he doesn't sound urgent. Oh no. Okay. I'm actually being pushed out of the room like this. So, we will continue this on Wednesday. I hope this was helpful for you and—

It was. Thank you, Father. Thank you. Can you hear me?

Yes, ma'am. You're good.

I had a story running in my mind and I wanted to get your insight on it because you've been married for like a lot of years and I feel like I could get advice from you. So, basically, I was on the train with my partner and he was playing his music out loud. I'm getting blushed right now as I'm saying this. And him and this woman, they locked eyes for like a split second and I almost lost my mind, bro. Like I was like, 'What is going on? Why are they smiling at each other?' Like I almost lost it. I threw my cup on the floor. I was like mad and like this jealousy—I never gotten like that before. So it was like a new experience for me because I've never been that type of way with like anybody, like fighting energy. I've never really had that in me. I've always been my Satsang, my spiritual studies, and it was like very new. I never gotten like that about anyone before, like this jealousy feeling and stuff like that. I don't know. So it was weird. Anyway, that's just the story. But like it was really like something that—a conditioning, a new conditioning that arose for me that I've never really had it in me before. But like literally I've been with my partner now for like four years. We're going on four years. And that means something, right? Like love is real. Like love exists. Like it's not just like fake Hollywood movies. Like, you know what I mean? Like love is real. You know what I mean? It's like I know that energy probably comes from the ego where like it's 'me and mine,' like 'me and mine' energy, like 'this belongs to me,' but like I don't know, man. I really don't know. I love you so much. You're my Father, my spiritual Father. I love you.

It sounds a very natural thing to happen in a relationship. So firstly, don't beat yourself up about it. Secondly, just fall more and more in love with God and then what will happen is that love for God will—all love is for God ultimately.

It just reflects in my relationships. Sorry, my dad is speaking so it's like I'm trying to hear your voice and then my dad is talking to the dogs. It's like a lot of commotion in the mornings, you know.

Between two fathers now. Yeah. So just love God more and more and if something happens for a split second, can you really blame someone for that? You know, if it is something more persistent then we can say, 'Why did you do that?' But if just in the moment something happened, then it's nothing. What does it mean if somebody's eyes lock for a second? Nothing.

I kind of—this is kind of a personal story and I don't want to get too much of stories. I know stories are just stories, but like it really happened. My partner, he hit me in my eye and you know how the law system is in the city. He got in trouble and I went to the hospital because now we're going through like, sorry, a sort of separation process where like we can't be together because of the law till like next month and you know it's a process now. But I still have a lot of love for him in my heart. Like, you know, he's like, 'I really love you and I want to be with you.' Like that's where I'm coming from and I know, I know like you're married or your wife's name is Tina, right? Tina.

Yeah. She's lovely.

Like I just—I don't know, man. I just love love.

Very good. Very cool. I'm sending you both—it's such a difficult situation. I feel you in my heart and I'm sending both of you all my love, all my blessings.

Thank you. Father, can I ask you one more thing? Amen. Um, what is it like in Bangalore, India where you live at? Like how's the environment? Do you like it over there? Like to live and like—because I would like to go, I really—it's in my bucket list to go see you and Mooji, you know, in the physical.

It's very nice. It's full of traffic though. That's the only thing about it.

Oh, okay. Okay.

As a city, we have beautiful weather. You have a fair amount of pollution and traffic, but besides that—

Like New York City, man. I'm used to it. I could—I get along just fine there, man.

I've been to New York. It's—you think New York traffic is bad and pollution is bad, but you haven't seen Bangalore yet.

Okay. Okay. I'm looking forward to seeing you one day. I really, I really want—I want to make that happen, you know, in my heart.

You're very, very welcome. You're very welcome.

I love you so much, Father. I hope you feel better from your throat. You hear? I hope you heal and your body heals nicely. I love you.

Thank you. Love you. Love you. Love you. Bless you. Okay, I'm running. Running.