The Truth Is Worth It, Just for Itself - 19th February 2021
Saar (Essence)
Ananta guides a seeker through the heavy conditioning of mental illness by pointing toward the ever-present awareness that remains untouched by personal history. He emphasizes seeking truth for its own sake, rather than as a tool for relief.
That which is aware of the hearing of this voice—who is that?
We look for the truth because it is true, not for the byproducts of peace or joy.
The truth is worth it just for itself, even if it did not give you any other benefit.
intimate
Transcript
This transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.
Namaste and welcome everyone to satsang today. Satguru's good. So, was the question... is this starting trouble? No, I can just start speaking and go on. Okay, let's do a quick experiment while you pick up the courage to ask. Just let's do a quick experiment. So, you're hearing this voice. You're hearing this voice. That which hears this voice, that which is aware of the hearing of this voice—who is that? That's you. What does that look like? Where is it? What is the location of that? Where? 'Here' is where? How many meters? No form? Then it can't be 'here.' Can you all hear this big thunderstorm? Right, so far. And yet, can you say it is not here? No, not even that. But where? Here, you cannot see without me.
But many times what happens in the term 'here' is that it can have spatial connotation. So then we can feel like it's here, and many times we say like that even in satsang. I keep pointing inside, inside, but it's not really inside the body that I'm pointing to. In fact, it's not inside anything that I'm pointing to. It's just a pointing to go beyond perception, which is what we call inside, but it's not inside in the way we think. So now, you can hear the beeping because there's a thunderstorm in Bangalore. The thunderstorm means lights will not last for too long. You can hear the UPS is blinking; it may not last for too long. So there are some questions. I'm going to look at those first in case it becomes a short section. Okay, I see Gemma.
Um, I have a question that is very personal because it's my condition, my personal condition that I'm following since more than ten years to Guruji Mooji, and but also at the same time, it's 16 years that I'm under the condition of mental health, bipolar in this case. And what happened is that I used to be in a psychiatric hospital once a year, which is a lot. And after going out of the psychiatric—like it happens now because I've been in December in the psychiatric—after, I go very down. Because my going to psychiatric normally is because I go very high and then I go like a little bit crazy, let's say, to just explain easily. And then now I'm very down. And then I see, for example, right now I'm collapsed, collapsed as a person. As I follow in Mooji's pointings, sometimes I rest more in peace, but there's like this duality of the person that is ill and feels depressed, that doesn't know how to get out of this feeling because it's not only thoughts that depress me, but it's a feeling now. It's like I'm in a small box that I cannot go over. I'm inside of my parents' house because I cannot move. I don't know what to do, what to do, what to do as a person. I don't work since 10 years ago, so I don't have family and kids to take care of, so that maybe as a person would give me more... less compressed only in myself as a person. But I cannot.
My question is, I'm following the pointings, I understand the pointings, but I don't... I'm not sure that I ever feel really the true silence that we are, the true peace that we are. And somehow I have the thoughts that because of this condition I have, with the medication and everything, it doesn't allow me to go a step higher, a step in the pure consciousness, which I think it's the only thing that can cure me. Because as a person, I have very few, very small value as a person, more now because I'm kind of depressed. I don't know if you call it depressed because my mind is made very confused with the pointings of Mooji and the feeling that I have as a person. So the question is this, because it's not something that we talk too much in satsang about mental health and pure awareness. I understand that pure awareness is all what exists and that mental health is part of another kind of condition, but it's a very, very strong condition. And I still believe that I can be safe of this condition. So for me, being realized that I'm pure consciousness is to drop off, to quit of all the personal condition that makes me have a very strong and awful life. And I'm here like this. I don't know if I explained very well.
You explained very well. It is a beautiful report, in fact. And firstly, I want to give you all my love, all my blessings, and I'm happy to hear that you're under Guruji's guidance for 10 years. And I'm certain of the fact that his grace is definitely working. His grace is definitely working with you. And I also want to appreciate your honesty or just simple openness to be able to share without any trepidation this condition that seems to afflict you in this lifetime. And just to openly accept and to share that itself is already very beautiful. Now, a few things, and we can have a conversation about this, but a few things I want to speak about from what I heard you say. One is that you don't feel like—and correct me if I misheard you—you don't feel like you come to the recognition of yourself as pure awareness or consciousness. Did I hear correctly this one?
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Yes. I guess when one person recognized that is not the body, the mind, the person, the identity, and has a recognition, it's a clear recognition. And I haven't... I'm not sure I ever had this clear recognition. So it is like I'm following Mooji, sometimes I... of course, sometimes when I've been very bad, it's given me some hope that I'm not getting as a... I'm still in this pure disaster as a life. And so I don't... sometimes in some guidance or some, I can feel some kind of peace, but this is a peace that I can relate when I was a kid, that I had this peace also. And but probably I compare with what I listen in satsang, that people, how they feel it, how they are so sure that they are feeling pure awareness they are. And I'm not sure that I ever feel this. I'm not sure at all.
Okay, okay. Thank you for that. So let's see if you can discover that today, now in this conversation. Let's see if we can come to that recognition with no super pressure. You can... we have satsang often, you can always come back. So it's not that there is a great pressure and you have to get it now. We can just have a conversation about it and see what reveals itself. So firstly, for a moment, what we have to do is keep any expectation of what should happen when I discover myself—to feel better, or the mind has to become quieter, or that my emotions have to have a different quality—all of those expectations for some time we just keep them aside and we just have a simple conversation about this and see where that leads.
So let's start very simply. In fact, I was talking about this in another way, but let's make it even simpler. You are perceiving this hand in front of you, yes? That which is aware of this perception, is that you? Now, that is recognition. I know the mind will not admit it, but give me a few moments to explain. You see, you confirmed that you are this awareness, or at least the idea that you have some awareness to be able to perceive, isn't it so? But this 'you,' you could not perceive it, isn't it? This 'you' that is aware, you could not perceive it.
The one who perceives... I can mistake that saying that it's me. No, it's Gemma, it's whatever. Yeah, but what happened is I listened so many satsangs with Mooji that now I have all the structure, mental structure changed, and I can say, 'Yes, the consciousness is not anything physical, it's just consciousness, awareness.'
For just few minutes, if the mind is offering you conceptual knowledge that you have learnt in the past, just allow it to come and go. Just allow it to come and go. That's why I'm saying this fully relaxed. We're just having a simple conversation relying on what we experience completely fresh. So it's okay, learnt knowledge will come somewhere, what we've heard, of course we will have those concepts, but they can come and go. But we rely on what is more directly apparent to us, more directly a direct experience for us now. Nobody, unless they are being very caught up in the mind, will say, 'Oh, I am not aware of the perception of this hand.' You see? Everybody will naturally admit, 'It is I that is aware.' You see?
Now, what we don't realize or we don't admit—our mind does not let us admit—is that that simple recognition itself actually is self-recognition. Because if it was not apparent to you that you are aware of this perception, if I was to say, 'Who is aware of this perception?' you would say, 'I don't know.' But innocently, like a child, when we answer, we say, 'Of course it is I that is aware.' Now, this is a beautiful recognition because you did not perceive this 'I,' did you? Nor did you have to go to some previous knowledge, you didn't have to go to some learned categories to confirm this. We just look fresh. If I said, 'Who is aware?' we can even say, 'Who is hearing? Who is aware of the perception of hearing? Who is that?'
We always say 'I.' But because I cannot say the one who is perceiving this hand is this person I have next to me. No, it's me.
Exactly, it's you. And yet you see, it is not because you are inferring it is me; it is also clear to you that it is you, just like it is clear to me right now that there is all this perception of the screen in front of me in which all these boxes are there, and I am aware of that perception. You see? Nobody has to tell me that. The mind doesn't have to come and tell me, 'You are aware of this perception.' It is just apparent.
But if it's a pure consciousness who is aware of this perception, this pure consciousness is my pure consciousness, not the pure consciousness of the person that I have in my sight. So, what that is aware—and you can call it pure consciousness for the moment—but this that is aware, does it have any boundary? Does it have any limitation? Does it have a size or location? No, but it's a little bit engaged with the size of my body. And yes, I don't see it the space that it's out of my body. So the body is together with the perception.
Now, so now we lost power here, but this is a very important conversation and you're following along very well. So for the moment, I've connected with my phone and you can just confirm to me whether I'm audible. Am I audible? You can hear me? Yes? Okay, good. This is a very important conversation, so I wanted to continue at least for this conversation because you are following along very well. So you said that, 'I see that this is pure consciousness, but I still feel like there is some relationship with the body and it seems to be contained within the body. I don't see this to be everywhere or the pure spaciousness that you hear about in satsang.' Did I hear you correctly?
Yes.
So very good. Just continue to follow along like this. Now, that same pure consciousness, can you see that the experience of the body is just a set of sensations that you experience within this space of your consciousness? And if you look at any sensation, you are on all sides of that sensation. You are not just on one side. You are not just contained inside a particular set of sensations, but it is in fact you, your being, in which all of these sensations are appearing and disappearing. Can you check on this?
Yes, I can feel it. And now it's a good time for me because I'm having this anxiety and this, and I can feel it like in the body. But it's almost that I go straight inside the body and feeling I'm in the body very sick. That's what happened with my condition because it's too strange.
You are not just on one side. You are not just contained inside a particular set of sensations, but it is, in fact, you—your being—in which all of these sensations are appearing and disappearing. Can you check on this?
Yes, I can feel it. And now it's a good time for me because I'm having this anxiety, and I can feel it like in the body. But it's almost that I go straight inside the body and feeling I'm in the body, very sick. That's what happened with my condition because it's too strange. So, but if I lie down and I say, 'Okay, I can feel,' so I have this here, and then I feel even that I have no energy, which is—I don't know how well it's filled—because when my body wakes up, there's no energy. It's... and then I say, 'Okay, the body has no energy,' and I can feel that the body has no energy.
I hear what you're saying, but we have to go step by step a little bit. Because if we present past and future and expectations of something changing at the body level or in the world or something like that, then it will just obstruct your discovery of yourself as pure awareness, as pure consciousness. So, just for some time, we must keep this aside—all notions of past and future, all ideas of 'me' and what has happened to me and what happens with me. Just we have to keep it aside for a few moments and just see what you are discovering in this moment. Already you did very well. You said, 'I am aware of all of these perceptions. I am aware.' Then we checked on whether this awareness is something that is contained within the boundaries of the body, because it can feel like that. Then you notice that, no, actually these sensations are just appearing within the manifest aspect of my Self, which is the being itself, and that you are not able to find any boundary of. So, this idea that you as consciousness is contained within the body, we can let go of on the basis of what you are discovering through direct insight. Is it like this so far?
But for me, it's not very easy to let it off.
In fact, for nobody. That's why we have satsang so often, you see? Because it is not easy to let go of our condition, you see, our ideas about ourselves, to allow ourselves to be. That's why we have satsang quite often. But my invitation over and over will be that we cannot fix it, you see? We cannot fix it for a past 'you.' We cannot fix it for a future 'you,' because all those are just mythical ideas in a way. At the moment, we can only point you—that is here, you see—to this truth, you see? And this process can seem very difficult, you see, initially, but it will become easier. And I can sense a lot of openness there with you, although your mind judges you more harshly than what I can see about you. So, already in the first meeting that we have like this, already I sense a lot of insight. I sense a lot of openness. But I realize that in your condition, the mind will say, 'No, no,' you see, 'it's very tough, it's very difficult, it's not going to happen like this, like this,' you see. So, it's okay. We can allow these judgments to come and go for a bit. So, that which is aware of perception, does that have a condition? And again, you don't have to think about the answer. I'm saying that that 'you' that is aware of perception, does that have any condition? Again, don't think about the answer. Just go to your insight and answer from there.
I hope no, but I don't know because I never realized that. So, I don't know if the awareness has any condition. By theory, I say no, but I don't have the... I hope no because it's the thing that I engaged to say. Maybe it's a problem that I try to engage my bad feelings, personal bad feelings, because the condition... I want to, I don't know how to say, to get to pure consciousness to say, 'Pure consciousness is okay, and so I'm okay, so nothing happened.' Yeah, so I repeated this to me, but it's a mental thing that I repeat.
Exactly. As long as it remains conceptual, you see, as long as it remains just conceptual, then it will not work in that way. We have to rely on our insight more than we rely on our mental understanding. But the insight is very simple. It is. So, the mind can have an expectation of what that insight should look like, and that expectation is completely different from what that insight actually is. Now, if I were to ask you, if you came to the pure insight of yourself, see, how would you know that that is it?
I imagine that I would feel peace and joy.
But we cannot rely on that, because that is why the mind will trick you, you see? And you go and you look and immediately say, 'But where is the peace? Where is the joy, really?' And I say, 'No peace, no joy,' so that can't be it. So, suppose we keep the expectation of peace and joy aside. Is there any other way you can know?
I won't feel like I feel now.
But that is again at the layer of feelings, no? So, suppose we say we cannot rely on our feelings or what feeling shows up to confirm our realization. Suppose we cannot rely on that feeling, any feeling. Then is there anything else we can rely on?
I always suppose that I will feel free of this condition that is killing me every year.
It can feel like that provided that initial momentum for us to come in the search of the Self. So, the desire to feel better and to not feel sad or depressed or down in any way can feel like it provided the momentum for us to come to satsang. But it is a funny thing that as we come to the real insight about it, we cannot get the insight and have an expectation at the same time, you see? So, my invitation to you is that because the truth is worth it just for itself, even if it did not give you any other benefit, you see, can we be in the looking for that truth just because it is true? Because we are tired of lies. We are tired of the lies. Is it the lies of what we have taken ourselves to be, what we think the world is? Just the truth is worth it for itself. And if by the way, if by the way coming to the truth also helps us in some other way, then we will also accept that as the Lord's grace. That much is okay.
I didn't understand exactly because your English for me is a little bit difficult.
So, what I'm saying is that we look for the truth because it is true and because we are tired of the lies about who we are, about what the world is, what we have taken ourselves to be. We are now tired of the lies and we just want to find the truth. Okay? Secondly, if on discovering the truth, as a byproduct, you see, you feel better, something changes at the level of feelings and emotions, then we will also accept that as the Lord's grace. But we are not in it for the byproducts; we are in it for the truth itself.
Yes, I understand now. But how you look only for the truth?
Yes, yes, yes. So, when we are not trying to confirm on the basis of whether there is joy now or whether there is some other feeling which is bliss, or at least the bad feeling has gone away—when we don't have these ways to confirm, like 'my mind has lesser thoughts' or 'the level of feeling, something has changed'—we leave those expectations aside. Then that is when we are searching only for the truth. It can seem a bit difficult, I understand. It's okay. And this is just our first conversation, so I want to at least seed all of these ideas with you and they will grow on their own, you see? It can seem a bit strange because so far it feels like, 'I've been on the spiritual journey so that I can be free from a condition or I can have better feeling, a better quality of mind or peace of mind or something like this,' you see. But to come to satsang and I'm saying to you, just keep all this expectation aside because that expectation, it may feel like it brought me to satsang, but now it is getting in your way, you see? And it is not an easy pill to swallow because it can feel like there is so much expectation of being free from this condition which seems to constrict your life, you see? So, I can understand that. But to carry desire in one hand or expectation in one hand and to find God or the truth in the other hand, it just doesn't work like that, you see? So, at least for a few moments, we must be able to keep that aside. And I'm with you, and it doesn't have to be... I'm in no rush. We can meet again on Monday, we can meet again on Friday. I'm happy to spend time with you and we can look at this together. So, I'm not pushing you or rushing you. And also remember that I am not making you feel unworthy or guilty in any way, because it is natural to expect that 'I hope I feel better.' It is natural, you see? So, it is not unworthy or guilt-worthy, but just for the moments that we are doing the inquiry together, we must leave all the expectations aside. All expectations aside.
But I don't know exactly how to look to the truth.
Yes, it is a strange looking. And did you see, by any chance, did you see my exercise on the four bowls?
No.
Okay, so that may be useful also. After this satsang, you could open in the YouTube channel, if you look for 'the four bowls.' It is a very direct inquiry into how to look for the Self, how to not just look but recognize the Self in a very simple way. Four bowls.
So that is one with B-O-W-L?
No, no, no. B-O-W-L-S. Exercise. Yes. And you can come on Monday at the same time?
Yes, I just have a problem that on Monday I have an activity I cannot leave, so I can just come on Friday.
Yes, you're very welcome. I will be here on Friday.
Thank you.
Very welcome. Okay, very good. Very, very good. So, I feel like we have to end today's broadcast for the moment. It's a very hot room and we feel a bit constricted in the darkness and the heat. So, this is what grace had in store for us today, and it is a short but beautiful session. And I'm sending you all my love, all my blessings. May Guruji's grace keep blessing all of you in this beautiful way. May we all forever be at the lotus feet of our Master. Thank you all so much for being in satsang today. Thank you, thank you. I'll see most of you on Monday. Thank you, thank you.