"The Only Place You Can Trust" - Sharing From the Heart - 18th September 2023

First, for example, like a thought image came to my mind. I mean, you have a lake, I mean I have a lake within me wherein all the thoughts go in. My personality also goes into that. My sorrows, my sorrows go into that. My happiness goes into that. And I am watching it. So I can picturize it and I want to take it deeper into myself because I feel that if that picture is there in my mind, I would not be affected by myself or sorrows or happiness or anything. It's like I want imagination, like a visual. As of now, it's a visual. So I thought that I should contemplate on this more so that it goes deeper into me. So then the question came into my mind: why should I contemplate? Is it for deepening something?

So that's how it all... I'm not sure, but I'm not sure that is contemplation actually. Like, that is like just deepening a visual and making your mind in some state or something like that. So contemplation to me, and Father can correct me or any of you can, is a very simple looking. It's like a very childlike curious looking, but not using your mind. So it's like when you have all the power in your being to do that. So it's like you don't use your mind and how do I say this? You just look. Like you just look. There's a looking without the mind. How to say? Yeah, I mean you come to your presence and you bring that question there. But why do we do that? Why do we do that? In my experience, first of all, it's a joyful looking. It's not like joyful doesn't have to be very happy, happy. I'm just saying like it's like you are, it's like you are discovering your true self more and more in that contemplation. Like your layers of your mind just, it's almost like you're breaking through. It feels like two ends here. It feels like I'm deepening, and the deepening feels like breaking the layers of my mind. You know, there's so many layers that I have added on to myself and it's just discovering. It's discovering my true self more and more and more. The more I contemplate, the more insights. And it's not like a game. So it's like a true looking. In my experience, a true looking. You're not... the mind is like taking you into the untruth, like a conceptual way of looking, but contemplation takes you into a true looking, a true... you know how to contemplate or you feel like there's a doubt there?

I mean, I go to my presence with that question and I just stay there. Is that how you do it? How do I contemplate?

So contemplation in my experience is just, first of all, open and empty because it cannot have the mind involved in it, no? And in that, then that question is alive. Like whatever the contemplation is, it's alive and it doesn't have to come with an immediate answer. It can go on for days and in fact, in my experience, some contemplations come back months later, years later. And like my Father has said something like, say, eight years back to me, sometimes it comes alive eight years later. You know, it might have given an insight eight years before and now another fresh insight, like it has deepened by itself, no? So I've realized, because I was not so contemplative before, like I know some other Sangha members earlier used to be more devotional, like just, yeah, you know, just let go, let go, let go. There was Father was very contemplating. It's okay, but it just came some and it just like, you know, is alive, like the contemplations. And it doesn't have to be like every day you're contemplating. It changes, no? Like you can't say I'm contemplative or I'm devotional or it just changes from day to day. So contemplation, first of all, is make sure there's the mind is not involved in it. You're not thinking, you're not going outwards. It's like an open and empty and keep the question alive. And I feel like your presence itself will teach you. Like maybe Father can say more. Just don't use your mind, that's all.

How would you say insight is different from just conceptual knowing?

That you just know it. You just know this, isn't it? You just... it's unbeatable. Like nobody can disprove my insight in that. Like nobody, anybody can come and tell me that what you saw was false and I just know it's... yeah, it's not provable but it's undisputable inside me. And you'll just know it. And it has a completely different flavor. There's no grasping, there's no holding on to an insight. And it does its own job. Like it feels like every time there's an insight, like there's more openness. But it's the most beautiful knowledge, alive, undisputable. I mean, I can't doubt my insight actually. We know, we know it when the insight is there. We all just know it. We know that this is true, yeah.

What is possible you feel to know only as an insight and not conceptually?

My truth. I cannot... God, or you can't know it any other way. You can't know it as a... we just can't. It's not ungraspable, yet most apparent knowledge, yeah.

The part is over the insight being undoubtable. So with me it's been like the different points of time I thought I had the insight and at that point I thought that was undisputable and that I've talked to you about it also, no? Like, so at first I... that can you stop being? For that some kind of what Father calls a primordial vibration, what I call a tingling sensation, that is there and maybe some feeling would come out of it, peace, love. And that feeling perhaps I used to call the being and I would say it's not infinite but it's bigger than the body because it radiates out of it, kind of somewhere emanating out of that core. And then some other time what happened, like recently I talked, you know, that even if that core itself is not there, I still can't stop being. Yeah, so maybe we can once confirm this with Father.

So we were talking the other day. You want to tell Father or I? So what I understood from what he was saying is, so he has this in his heart center like a tingling or whatever, like a sensation, which I feel like is, no, the Holy Spirit is what you say. And but when I ask you, can you stop being, then it's not necessarily that you have that is the... so he's trying to always feel that and when he doesn't feel that tingling, then he feels like he he's not, like God is not there, your presence is not there. So some maybe we can, you can look at it with him. Okay, okay, so ask me again.

It's not there anymore these days. I can't feel it. Only I try to stay with it for a really long time. I try to stay with that for a really long time and after a point I just couldn't feel it anymore. And that's when I thought... so this is Daddy also what Father would... I asked, you know, stay in the temple of the heart. Yeah, he got off the train and all because he couldn't feel it. He wanted to feel it and also he does all kinds of things.

So if I ask you, can I stop being? Can you stop being? No. Good. Are you trying to feel something or can you stop being? I just want to make sure it's not from the mind. Okay. Um, so can I stop being? Okay. Did you have to go and grasp that tingling sensation? You just can't stop. But the sensation is not there. It's not that. So, so this staying in the temple of the heart, like there's not even a sensation in the heart anymore. So it's not a physical, like it's not a physical place you have to keep your attention on. Staying in the temple of your heart is just being open and empty. Where is the temple? What? Where is the staying also, no? It's like nothing, nothing changes. Suppose I have drifted off into the mind, the being is still there. And if I'm not also, it's still there. Yeah. So, so where is the question of staying? Staying where? Where's the temple and how to stay in it? Who's asking this question? Okay, say again. Ask again.

So to stay in the temple of the heart I need to find the temple and I need to know what staying is.

No, it's just open and empty. Just open it. Just open it. Okay. And then the mind will be a little bit: where is the temple? You know, you don't... your heart will tell you what is the temple. Your heart will tell, guide you. You don't have to know anything. Just open and empty. Okay. Don't figure it out in your head. Thank you. Okay. He's been coming here last few days that why are we, why I mean... and Father saying, and not this just because Father is saying, because we all have that insight like that a heart is God's heart. Why are we continuing to just struggle? Like what is the need to struggle? Like you know, just he so graciously here and that we can just give everything to him, just live like that. Why are we so like adamant and and like Father saying? And I just want to say it's not just because Father is saying, you know, it's it's my insight. It's I see it and all of you see it that it's just we can live in God, you know, we can live without any struggle. I mean struggle in the sense of having to know anything. Doesn't mean that you know your life is going to be very like a book of roses, I think that's what it's called. But I don't need to know anything. Why do I still continue to try to know or think that I something should be a particular way? Or it's like the greatest power in the universe is here for us and we're just being so stupid. It's the greatest freedom to just not know. Like God is guiding us, God can guide us, yet we think we can do it better. I feel like we doubt it because we do, we like we still don't feel like that is that is the God that is like a heart is God's heart. I feel like we still don't have have that conviction somehow. We can just go on and on like this. I'm just wasting time. It's just completely wasting time. Like I really feel Father now that you say that really urgent, like you can't waste a breath. You can't waste a breath it.

Freedom to just not know. Like God is guiding us, God can guide us, yet we think we can do it better. I feel like we doubt it because we still don't feel like that is the God that is like—a heart is God's heart. I feel like we still don't have that conviction somehow. We can just go on and on like this. I'm just wasting time. It's just completely wasting time. I really feel, Father, now that you say that, it's really urgent. Like you can't waste a breath. You can't waste a breath. It's like he's graced us with the insight, yet we go on and on and on. I keep telling my husband, like, I feel like it's my prerogative. I cannot waste a breath. I just cannot disgrace my insight like that. If I have another thirty years to live, I better live it serving God than serving myself. It's enough.

Yet I see so much pride, and instead of feeling guilty, I just pray. There's no point feeling bad in that sense; you just pray. Just pray that, you know, you deepen in His love and you serve Him. So we don't have to go into our mind when you see pride. We don't have to make more stories about ourselves. We just go into deeper surrender. And I feel like the deeper you go, the more deep you want to go because He just shines His light more. He just shows you so much more. And all that our mind makes us feel as true is not true. It's like almost like we are buying time. Just time, time, buying time, buying time. You can finish it now.

Father shared this book called 'Crazy Love' and it showed me how much I'm about myself. Just how much my life has been and continues to be about myself. My mind might say, 'No, no, you're still quite giving,' and it's not true. Thank you, but no. I hope it's not sounding like some depressed mind or something. It's just a revelation here, actually, that there's so much that we can be available for God in whatever way He deems us fit. Let's stop thinking about ourselves too much. You don't exist like that. Don't waste time in this. It can sound very scary to the mind, though, no? 'Don't waste time,' like you have to do something. It's not like that. It's just almost like our attitude changes. It's just like a—just become like a more surrendered, prayerful—like the intent changes. And then He takes care.

Now, really, like just starting to learn what prayer is after Father introduced prayer. And He really listens and answers when He wills, but He listens. It's not that He doesn't know what we are lacking, but He wants us to admit what we are lacking. It's the most beautiful revelation I'm having. Like, He knows. He knows all that is almost here, but until I accept and become honest, I can't go closer to Him. Stephen says there is only one contemplation: 'Who am I?' and there is no 'me' and God.

So this 'Who am I?' contemplation, actually, I remember because it was very alive when I just started Satsang. I wanted to tell Anu because I would actually stop and look. I had not met Father, Guruji; this was somebody had seeded this question in me. So I didn't know anything in spirituality, so it was very innocent, the looking. I would actually—I knew I was here, you know, we all just know we are here—and it's like a curious looking as to, 'Who am I, actually?' you know? And you would just look because you would know that you're not the mind. You just know. You just start to know like if you just stop, you know, stop in the sense of stop inside. So that is the looking. For me, in my experience, that was the looking. I was actually looking. There was the greatest joy. Something just started feeling very—of course, fears came—but I knew I'm here. But what am I here as? I didn't know in the sense—I knew, but for a long time I had forgotten. So it just felt like I'm looking fresh. I'm just looking, not with my eyes, you know? It's just an internal—like your being has that power. It's an innate power to contemplate. It's like one of your powers to just contemplate, like to contemplate yourself, what you are, what is your reality.

So just try to say you're being with your presence with that question? Yes, being with the presence means it doesn't have to—like the attention doesn't have to—it can come many times in contemplation. It can rest many deeply in your being, but just open and empty. Like the attention can go, but you don't grasp. Like your mind can come, you don't grasp. And the question is alive. Stick to one question because then the mind will keep like, 'No, no, this contemplate.' No, you something you feel resonates in your heart, like you want to contemplate this, then you stick to it for some time. Do you repeat that question in your—I mean, do you repeat? Maybe if you're gone with your mind, so if you are distracted, then you just bring that question back. You can. It's not like a mental repetition or anything. It's if you get distracted very often, maybe you have to bring the question back. Yeah, you'll also notice, I feel like sometimes a contemplation just grasps you, like you just want to be with it. You have not yet experienced that? I'll try that. No, it automatically—you feel like you want to—like, you know what happens when I do this? So it just grasps you. But I mean, I never tried this contemplation kind of a question where I just deepen in that. I never—so 'Who am I?' if you—that's also contemplation. Just ask the question and look. Look what you're in. I get it. I'll try it.

Like this looking is not with the senses or—you know what I'm saying? Like it's a—something else is coming to say like, oh, like for the room, like we have the option of living a life completely serving God and living selflessly as much as God can squeeze us out in that way. Or we have an option of living a life—whatever is left for the—for our bodies is just completely serving God. Which in my—which to me feels life worth lived. For that, we have to be completely open to dying to Him. Dying to Him, dying to ourselves into Him. Like every time we check, we see that our insight is true, and every time we check, we see that this person is not there. Yet why do we always choose to speak from that which does not—is not true?

I really always—I'm so grateful to Amber for this. I feel like every—it comes up very often. She was the one who told me many years back, 'So why are you always talking from Arjuna's perspective?' No, just something just—it's not like I don't continue to do it, but it just went in so deep. It's enough. I mean, why are we so shy or ashamed of speaking that which is most natural to all of us? Like even when Father said, you know, why was I so like—and that's like a heart's voice is the most natural. Why should it be like a thing to share? Like we have become so accustomed to speaking the mind that we feel like this is a big thing, whereas this should be the most natural, normal conversations in the world. And then the one who's sharing is put on a pedestal, whereas it's the most natural thing for him or her to say.

Even like me telling, share, we are all learning. We are all learning to listen to our heart's voice more and more. And Atmika had said once to me, like, this is the most natural voice. Like this is our most—this is our voice, and we are struggling to come back because we are so used to our mind and so used to what our mind is saying. Even in that, like if we can—even the mind can take that as pride, and 'Now I'm listening to my heart's voice.' Ridiculous. It's the most effortless, natural way to be. And it can never—like Father says, it can never put you down. It can never put you down. The only place you can trust. The only place you can trust. The only place you can trust.

Yeah, and like that 'Crazy Love' book is bringing up so many—like alive in a way of risking your life for God. But I'm starting to see both sides. Like my family, my reputation, my this. But in my heart, I see that it's not true. But at the—where it can feel true, very true, and feel very risky. But somewhere I'm seeing that it's worth it because it's just not—there's no big cause, but it's worth it. Is it because—because my insight shows me it's not true? Like in my deep sleep, none of us is there. Nothing is there. Then what is all this hula hoop of me and my kids and my family and crazy—like all this just gone. Sorry, I'm just going on a rant. Just thank you, oh Lord. Sorry, I didn't realize you heard that part. Me, my kids, and my family explained.

I mean, so it's not—yeah, I just want to say it to Dilip, that does not mean that I'm becoming—I speak like this to Samik also, okay? And there is no—it does not mean that deepening in God equals to a lack of care in that way, okay? I'm just trying to appease him. Or a lack of love. In fact, it's a truer love. It's unexplainable, but it's a true love. It's a very—it's a very powerful love that doesn't have to be like—there's nowhere close to worldly love, actually. Maybe it can manifest like that, but it can manifest as Kali also. But it's worth everything. It's worth everything that you hold on to. Your mind is trying to grasp it, which can never happen. So don't waste time.

It's a very powerful statement. It's more true than anything else. It's not something that—then Guruji's here speaks in the invitation. And how is it that we don't—like our minds just don't blow away with like the question of, no, when can it go? Has it come? Like do we know anything that has not come? It has not come, and it doesn't go. Like it's crazy. Like it's here by itself. We don't know anything that is here by itself. Like it doesn't need to be sustained. How come we not—like we're not—like Father says, how come you're not interested in exploring that that is here by itself? Nobody put it here, nobody is sustaining it. It's crazy. It's always the same. It's not dead. It becomes the most boring thing for the mind.

This question, this thing always like does something here. Like it doesn't—it is self-effulgent. It does not need anything to sustain itself. It's just like a—what do we know in this world that doesn't have a source, doesn't come and go, doesn't fade? Even our breath fades, but we know this place which does not change. It's not just it does not change, it's just so by itself. I mean, that is just self-sustaining. Anybody has any questions? I feel like if God has given us this grace of being able to serve Him, then we must honor that in whatever way. It doesn't have to be manifested some—in some particular way, but just live for Him. Can you—somewhere the mind is starting to say everybody's going to get bored. I'm sorry. Thank you. Like they'll want to listen to you, Father. No, no, no, no. They're here for you, Father. You come now, please, huh?

So there's a question from Bhakti: 'How can we trust the voice of the heart more and more?' I can only speak from my experience. In my experience, there are like different ways the heart can guide. One is just—just open and empty. You just—this—you just move. So one is like to listen to the heart, one is just open and empty where your heart is just moving your mouth and your body. And another I have experienced is just—it's not really really like a command, but it's more like an intuitive sense that like you just know you have to come attend Satsang today, or you just know you have to go left. Somehow you just know it. Your mind might say something else, but you just know it. Like another is like a command, you know, 'Just do this' or 'Say this.' So how to listen to the heart more and more? The only way is to let go of your mind more and more. Let go of your next thought. Like that's the only way, I feel. The deeper we go into our heart, deeper we go into God, the more we let go of our mind, it becomes more natural to live like that, actually. And I'm still learning and it's—sometimes I still doubt. So like Father has guided us, there is no—the heart does not rush. So if—if there is—if there is a command in open and empty, it's just clear. You don't—there's nothing, you just move like that. But if there is a command and if you doubt if that is a thought or if that—

The deeper we go into our heart, the deeper we go into God, the more we let go of our mind. It becomes more natural to live like that, actually. I'm still learning, and sometimes I still doubt. As Father has guided us, the heart does not rush. So, if there is a command in open and empty, it's just clear. You don't... there's nothing, you just move like that. But if there is a command and if you doubt if that is a thought or if that is your heart's command, then you just wait. There is no rush to follow it. Slowly, slowly, you start to get... you don't have to follow it, you know? Initially, I would feel guilty, like, 'No, what if it's my heart?' The mind would create this: 'What if it's the heart's command and you're not following it?' Father said God is not in a rush. I feel like God doesn't need us in that way; He can do it Himself. He just is making us listen to Him again, so He's very patient.

Like Father says, even if the intent is to hear His voice and you end up listening to the mind, God takes care of that. That is very freeing, Father, because in the process of relearning your heart's voice, you might make mistakes and be guided by the mind, which is okay. But you start to get... because it's your own voice, it's not an alien voice. You start to get a taste. It's completely a different taste. Like Father says, unconditional love doesn't need anything. It's not a selfish, needy voice. It's not a 'me for a me' voice, you know? That doesn't mean that it's not God. It can just tell you, 'Don't eat the sweet.' That does not mean it's not Him, but it's not like a 'me, me' voice. It doesn't have that flavor. The only way to hear our heart's voice is to let go of our mind, and there's no end to this deepening.

A few days back, I was telling you that there's fear to hear the heart's voice. There was more fear than anything, actually. But there's a small shift where I feel like I trust in the love. I don't know how to put this, but it's not holy fear, you know? It's my heart's guidance. It's more like openness to it now. It's okay. I'm not able to put it in words, but something shifted. Actually, even like this experience, I'm feeling like we don't have to feel shy. We should all be talking like this only. Eventually, all of us are sharing such... and I don't see a reason why the one who is sharing... of course, in our ignorance, we put him or her on a pedestal, but from that one's perspective, it's the most natural thing to do. I also see how from our perspective we've been full of reverence for the Satguru, but it's the most natural way to talk. Nobody has achieved anything in this. It's not an achievement of any sort.

Just because I'm sitting here or one of you sits here doesn't mean that I know better. For whatever reason God has picked us, I have no idea why. But sometimes when I get... it has become less, but when I get that flavor of the struggling mind, I just feel so much for those who struggle in the world. It's such a horrendous way to live. Some are struggling to come out of it and they don't know how. Some are happy, and it's fine. It just feels like they're just waiting to hear that there's something outside this, that this is not true. So why don't we just have that intent that we should be the ones to help them out in whatever way? If the intent is there, then God takes care, I feel. But we have all struggled. I have struggled very much in my mind, and I can't imagine someone going through the same. Thank you.

Yeah, you say God. When you say God and you refer it to us, what is God? Is it the voice in your head? It's not the mind, okay. So, what is God for you? And second is, you said you do everything for God. Is it like a switch on, switch off thing? In your functional life in the world, you have to switch off, or you can switch on? How do you really practically navigate through that?

First, God for me is the reality of my own Self, which His Grace be with that insight. He's facing all of us. God is actually... and now the word 'God' itself is so... what is God to me? God is that reality, the only one that is here, actually. And He's the only one. I mean, we refer to Him as 'He,' I don't know why, but there's more.

When you say you hear God's voice, that means that you are not one with God. You and God are different, right? Does that mean that when you say you hear the mind, you don't associate with the mind? But you're saying you hear God's voice. So then, are you not one with God? How do I answer this question? I don't know. Wait, let me think. I have not asked this to stop being... no, no, you have to help me out if I don't know. Ask it again. That's a good question because I don't want to hear it from Father; I actually wanted to hear from you. If you hear this voice, then how are you saying it too? Okay, good question. Just ask the question for smaller... the same question. So what is God? You don't want that answer. You want... so are you referring to God as something different from what you truly are?

The reason I have this question is when you say you hear your mind, you're saying you're not the mind. But in the same breath, you say, 'I'm listening to God's voice.' So then, are you also saying that you are... it's not you're different from God? I'm not different from God. I'm not different from God, but I would rather not say that I am God, you know? It is true, but I cannot... in the same breath, I know I cannot say I'm... it just doesn't feel right. The truth is God is in my heart and I am Him, but I would rather say that... how do I answer this, Ananta? I can't say I'm God. He's all there is, and He commands this. I really don't know, Father, how to answer this question.

See those stones? I don't know. Don't get into Advaita anymore. Yes, yes, but then how? We need guidance. What is... because an element of this egoic nature always stays behind in the human condition. It is always there. Even for the greatest sages, they have not ended the human condition one hundred percent. So, for that of me that still remains and tends to be guided by the voice of limitation and separation, individuality... although it is true that I am beyond God, actually God that we refer to as Consciousness takes birth within myself. This is my absolute reality. But that of me which is still left behind even after that insight, that meaning, this will be a servant to God's will. And I can follow God's will by being empty, like she said, and allowing the presence to unfold, and I can follow His guidance, His commandments.

So that is what is Achintya Bhedabheda, which means that which is unfathomable. Bheda means that there is a difference; Abheda means there is no difference. Unfathomable. So how can it be that on one hand you are the source of God itself, and on the other hand you're saying with full integrity and honesty that 'I'm just a servant'? The servant means to hear the Master's voice, to be a good servant. And that is why it is so. What happens if the egoic aspect that still remains holds on to the conceptual notion of its godliness? You see, then that becomes Ravana. That becomes the spiritual ego. That becomes the special one: 'I am somebody special. I am God himself. All of you are still people, but I am God.' All these kinds of symptoms arise from there.

So for that Bheda aspect of me, which is not even worthy of being called a servant—a beggar in front of God—that one needs His constant guidance. And that is the voice which is guiding you. It is always the highest pointing of all the sages that we must follow God's will, even higher than the pointing that you are one with Him. There's a reason why they put that as the highest, because if the spiritual ego takes this—that 'I am God'—and what is left of me starts taking itself to be God, then it just leads to all the horrible things you see in spirituality. So both the Oneness and even the source of Consciousness is true, as well as the servitude to God is true. And this the mind cannot fathom. That's why the Achintya is there; you can't fathom it. And there's always Lila.

As you're deepening in your love for God, you will also notice that actually you are a pure witnessing from which this being, the presence, arises. This is true. But also in your heart, you will feel so much love and obedience and servitude to God. It's impossible to put it in the category of which one is true. It's not logical in that way, but both are true. And it's like the ways of the heart are so... you can say left and right and they'll both be true. No, but in the mind, we can't understand what Father said. You can verify both, isn't it? Yes, that's the thing. It's not just, 'Okay, Father is saying it, is it logical?' so I just have to accept conceptually something which is opposite. But when you validate with your own experience, you find that both are true.

How are you able to communicate that? That is the difficult part. How can I communicate opposites without scaring everybody away? That is the difficult part. And as I was answering, I realized how you say, 'I would rather say that God is whatever, but I'm just a servant.' I can't say 'I am God'; it just doesn't sit in my mouth. It feels like blasphemy even though it's not blasphemy, you know? But the truth is He's in your own heart. And yeah, the beauty of it—and this is my only topic—the beauty of it is that I can confirm it is the presence in my heart. But at the same time, I confirm that this entire universe is just an appearance in His light. This is another thing which the mind can never understand: how can just the presence experienced by one aspect of Consciousness also be the source of all the universes?

How do we even know that? Centuries ago, before there was science and so much of that, that is what your intuitive insight is telling you: that the one whose presence is alive in your heart is also the Lord of the universe. And it is to that Lord of the universe which I'm always in service to, but I can also confirm that it is within me because my very being... in Hindi there is Atma and Paramatma. Is that... because you're translating it, making it in English 'God, God.' But there is a presence, the presence of the primordial vibration as Atma, the unlimited nature of this being whose presence this is. If I ask you, 'What is the boundary of this being?' you'll see it has no boundary. And yet you can experience the primordial vibration, as I call it. So that unlimited, limitless beingness is Atma, and there is no actual difference between Atma and Paramatma. Some people also call it Jivatma and Atma, but actually the non-distinct part.

Although there is no distinction between Atma and Paramatma, then you can say that that which witnesses even the reality of the limitless being, that is the Nirguna Brahman from which even Paramatma takes birth. And if you want another conceptual framework, you can look at that pure awareness. All these are qualitative categorizations, not in actuality, but they are helpful because it coincides with all the cultures in the world. So if in Christianity they talk about the Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—it's the same thing.

You can say that that which witnesses even the reality of the limitless being, that is the Nirguna Brahman, from which even Paramatma takes birth. And if you want another conceptual framework, you can look at that pure awareness. All this—these are qualitative categorizations, not in actuality, but they are helpful because it coincides with all the cultures in the world. So, if in Christianity they talk about the Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—it's the same thing. The Holy Spirit being the presence of the Atma within, the Son being unlimited being, the Paramatma, and the Father being the Absolute reality.

I want to hear the practical. What to do in that moment when I, for example, have a glimpse of that which I even don't know what I'm even perceiving? What is the most practical?

And that practice is then you either be guided by the mind or be guided by the heart. This is my... if you keep the outcome aside and you just want to know whether this is coming from her heart's voice or this is the voice of separation, the voice of individuality, then let's check if it is accompanied by love, not grasping, not rushing—just the holy presence. If it is accompanied by that, then you can trust that and think that to be true. But there is no guarantee; that does not mean that you have some super abilities or something like that, because even that the mind can also get when the ego goes down to break things up. So, trust that for the moment because it is coming from the holy place within you. And if it is not coming from there and it turns out to be very accurate in terms of its prediction and all of that, it doesn't matter. All of this is still the Leela.

And that's why I'm saying keep the word 'practical' aside, because the moment you say practical, you're saying 'let's take the untrue to be true.' That's what the word expands to, because you say, 'Okay, but practically speaking...' means you want to give credence to this ephemeral as if it is eternal. So just give that aside—the category of practical losses versus real, whatever categorization—and just follow your heart when it's coming from your heart. And if it's from the head, even if it's very accurate in the future, it doesn't matter. Let it not tempt you with any of its temptations.

Practical was more in how to deal with these things. Incorrect, this is not mind; this is some kind of weird perceptions which I keep receiving and I keep avoiding them.

If it comes with the presence of holiness, then you can call them vision, we can call them guidance from God. If they are not accompanied by holiness or love or presence—whatever word you want to use...

I don't have to dwell on them at all?

Don't try to solve it. If you try to solve it, then it just pulls you up. Yeah, yeah, it's blub blub, it's blah blah. Exactly. Those are the best. Those are the best, like a Zen koan. Where can you solve a Zen koan? Are they unsolvable? But why are they annoying me so?

Oh, go on.

Suppose your master is giving you a koan. He says it may take 20 years, 30 years, but you have to solve it. Don't you feel it must be annoying then? Better to just... this means it's from the head. It has a mental energy about it. Just let go of it. It has no holiness. If your intent is to follow God in your heart but you're tricked by the mind, God will make grace even out of that to follow Him, you see.

When I, for example—this is why I'm bringing this up because this is just one of the cases, this was just the case today—exactly something like this. But what was happening, I don't know if this is vision or whatever this is I perceive, because I didn't feel this comfortable. I said, 'This is some blob of the mind,' and I just say no and I go do something. When I don't like it, I don't know if it's my mind inventing or I'm getting visions or whatever I'm getting, I just kind of go on a dismiss mode.

Exactly. Sometimes I just don't know. If it is accompanied by holiness, by presence, by love... if it's accompanied by these things. If it is accompanied by fear, grasping, wanting, separation—all this—you know the mental energy very well. You can sense it here. So if it is accompanied by this kind of taste, then no matter how accurate it turns out to be, you can dismiss it. I know the mind is also present. Let us hear. Thank you. I don't want you to shy away from all guidance because the mind restricts you if you have...

So it's a very important answer. Yeah, I just kind of start dismissing kind of all of it because something in your head doesn't want you to become clear about it.

It's not clear. So no, no, it's not because there's a fear. So what is the fear then? The fear is that the mind's dominance will be lost and you will live in God's guidance and follow God's will. So the mind is trying to make it such that, 'Oh, okay, you're not going to follow your mind, but I won't let you follow God also.' What we will do is we will send you the transcript so you can listen to every line. Until then, tell me, what is confusing? If you make it very specific...

I think something is also with the past connected because I kind of lost and then there was such a big confusion because it just kind of like soaked all kinds of things and then I just dismiss kind of all of it. That was the experience and I think it's kind of still this is... yeah, I can... so as you asked Father, who wrote a lot of... but when I saw her on the hot seat, I came here, not even on the outside yet, I came to listen to what she's talking here. No, but it takes a lot for her also to be there, since a lot of ego resistance to be there, because if you are there, there will be the chances of being ashamed of something and all. So thanks for that. And every time it came again and again that, 'Yeah, why am I listening to her? I should listen to you,' and so on. But I can see also that if someone is listening to me, the others will have the same resistance which I can practically see in my family members—what resistance they are saying according to me. But yeah, and it also gives confidence: she can speak through the heart, I can also speak through the heart. So yeah, thank you, Father. Thank you for sharing that.

I realized suddenly my mind came like it was just suddenly, 'Everybody must be like bored of you now, you're just going on.' It didn't come, just felt like, okay, there was a little bit of attraction to that thought. I can understand if, you know, you want to listen to Father. Yes. So, you know, first of all, I thought it was just amazing. So thank you, especially as you just thought into it and just spoke completely authentically. It was so beautiful. And what really stuck with me was when you said that you had heard that, 'Why do you always take Arjuna's position when you're communicating?' Having had the insight, why do you always put yourself in the position of the seeker rather than the position of the insight itself? Yes, it's actually as you said, insight is in plain sight. Yes, like there's nothing more clear than you just said. It never goes and you know, really said it so beautifully. Yeah, but then we somehow want to take that shape and identify with the body and the seeker and all that, and that's the weakness. Yeah, it just made it very clear the way you put it. So thank you.

Yeah, thank you. Someone had said this to me years back and it's still like... that just shifted. Like something just, you know, something just like it just went very deep because we can go on. I mean, go on and every time our insight is true. So what stops us from... nothing stops. Nothing can actually stop us from speaking our heart in that way. You think it's just the mind? The mind wants to grasp onto shape, identity. It doesn't have a power of its own. You have to give it your power. So as Consciousness, it's our choice. That's the only choice. And for many years Father used to say this. I used to feel very scared because I think I was still like in that position of a person having to make a choice of whether I go with my thoughts or not. It's not about a person, and the mind doesn't have power of its own. So we cannot actually keep blaming the mind. It might be hard to hear, but that's the truth. We can't blame our mind. It's just here; you buy it or you don't buy it. You know, it has no power.

I really miss that. So Father used to say before, like, 'But do you want to take the Krishna perspective or the Arjuna?' Like Krishna is the one who knows his truth and he is living as God as his truth, and Arjuna is the one who is asking him about reality and, you know, posing to Krishna as a seeker. So we come into satsang as seekers. Of course, we need the Master's guidance and the Master points out that, you know, but you're not a seeker. You're not the cat who's looking for a bowl of milk. I first time... okay, you're not the cat, you know. This is okay, sorry. So we keep on asking Father questions from the perspective of a seeker. No, we keep meeting Father as a seeker. And you know, the Sangha members told me many years back that, 'Why are you still questioning as Arjuna? Like, why can't you?' And you know, Krishna is in... you know, God is in your heart. And what stops us from moving from there? Everything in your heart, not in your mind. No, you don't have... just what stops us? Like, why do we continue to pose as though we are finding God? I mean, that doesn't mean that there's no deepening, there's no letting go, but there is a... you leave the position of the seeker. You just see that there is nothing to seek. Do you see or you don't see?

Not yet. Maybe you don't see it. Do you?

I still see myself as a seeker. What are you seeking? Well, that's a very difficult question. I don't know. I don't know. How would you know that you got it, whatever you're seeking? For me, I kind of trust Guruji, like him. So I follow what he says and pray comes naturally. So I pray that whatever he is pointing at, I see it. Yeah, so that seeing that will happen, will happen in the future or when he's pointing? Like seeking is almost like something to get in the future, no? Yes, like something you can get. I get your point. Yeah, but that which Father is pointing us is you already. You are here. You cannot deny. I'm here. You are here. No, theoretically I do not understand what you're talking about now. Like, are you here? Are you here now? Let's do my thinking. Are you here? Can you say you're not here? Yeah, huh? No, yeah, I'm not. I think I'm not. Are you here? Like, if you ask your child, 'Are you here?' he'll say yes or no. Understand, but that feeling of that... no, no, nothing. Simple question, don't complicate this. Are you here? Of course. But when you say about that feeling, the presence being that primordial like vibration, you are it. I understand what you're saying.

So where is the 'but'? That is the problem. The 'but' is the problem because you're trying to... it's almost like, say we listen to Father, like my Father says, 'But I'm feeling so much love for God.' I'll be like, 'But I am not feeling that love, that means I'm... something must be amiss.' That's not the point. No. So maybe if I'm saying something, then you're like, Father is saying something when I'm not feeling that, so then I'm not with God or something. Is that how it is? You are here, no? Okay, now let's stay with that. Is this seeking? Is it seeking something? Are you seeking anything? No, not in... no. Are you seeking anything? Yes. What stops us from accepting our reality in the heart, not in the mind? In that moment you do. So where's... what is the next 'but'? You're buying shit out of this. Whose problem is that? Who is telling you that it's a problem? You switch out of it. I feel like we just don't... we just don't accept it that we are here. It's just like the mind keeps giving us ideas that something more needs to be done, something more needs to be done, and we just keep falling for it. But this 'you' that is here, what is it lacking? What needs to be achieved in it? Or what... it's almost like two different realms. The mind can never grasp you. You can never not be yourself. You just have to let go and the mind will keep telling...

The mind is telling you that it's a problem. You switch out of it. I feel like we just don't accept it that we are here. It's just like the mind keeps giving us ideas that something more needs to be done, something more needs to be done, and we just keep falling for it. But this you that is here, what is it lacking? What needs to be achieved in it? It's almost like two different realms. The mind can never grasp you. You can never not be yourself. You just have to let go. And the mind will keep telling you, 'Now you're a speaker, you go home and then you'll be in the mind.' And that's it, you're already in the mind position, yes. But every time you're going to check, this is all you're going to be. You're not going to be more than this. There's going to be no greater you in that way. It doesn't matter how much bliss you're feeling, doesn't matter what is in your plate. I feel like many of us are looking for a state, you know, and then that state will prove to us that now we have found ourselves. But that's never going to be the case. If we keep waiting, then we are just missing God.

What is stopping you from being in God now? I see it was not that position of a seeker, but like how Guruji says, it was that position to accept that you are God. I mean, you are a servant of God. Maybe my question itself was wrong. I was not in that seeker position, but the feeling of that servant of God. So it was more of that and not a seeker.

So you don't feel like you're a servant of God?

I do feel, yeah. So my thought which said that I'm more of a seeker of God, no, that wasn't true is what I feel now. So is that there is a problem? I didn't understand. I'm so sorry, I want to get this really clear also. So when you ask, 'What are you seeking?' I had many answers. But after, like you said, 'Are you here now?' and I'm compelled to say yes because you are—I mean, I can—it's all exactly.

So when I say you're compelled to say yes, meaning in the sense I can go in the mind and say, you know, like, 'No, I'm not here.' But it just sounds like a kid. Are you here? Yes, I'm here. But you know you're here. No, it's not like you just have to say yes. You know you're here. You're just imagining that you're not here because you heard some other stuff. That's not cool.

Yeah, that's why my question. But the thing is that when you say, 'Are you here?' and you said after that, 'What?' there's no 'after that' because what is here is completely complete and there's no duality there. So what mixes by the next thought? Why are we just not accepting? Why are we not done with it? There's nothing to be gained more than this. That's what I'm not sure. No state, no great bliss, or no peaceful life is going to give anything more to this than it already is. That was the recognition. And in a way, you're waiting for validation or a state or experience and just we are missing—I'm sorry, I want to say this word—if I'm missing Brahmananda for all the flavors of this world. My mind is saying don't speak like this, but I just want to say it. The tasteless Self is the greatest joy. Nothing in this world can give you that. I'm clear of that now.

It's like right when we don't run, then it'll come. But that's not the point. We are not 'not running' so that it comes. You're not playing those games. You're only in it because it is true. That's all. But you give it a chance. You have to give God a chance only because it is true. I mean, there is no other reason for it. There are no benefits from God. It's you, that's it.

Yeah, I'm just going to stay with this because I mean, I have—say, no, it's a question, but it's just a question in the sense of, in this moment I don't feel like any separation between God and me so that I could be His servant. But I know when my mind will come—I don't know, I'll say it loud because it's not coming up—I mean, when the mind comes, then I'd rather eat.

This one is already tempting you. It is already telling you that something—just have the courage to stay in God. Let Him figure out in the next moment. You stay in God now. You see the trick? How do you know that your mind is going to come? Who tells you that? It's the question you ask which is answering. The mind is unseen. I notice it and that's why I said don't buy into the idea that your mind is going to come. It's the same trickster. How do you know? Actually, in this moment it doesn't matter if it comes also. It doesn't matter. I feel like we just postpone. No, nothing will be different the next moment. It's going to be the very same no matter what experience is happening. Don't miss God for that.

I was hearing Friday satsang and it's very, very beautifully explained again about how the laying of the table and the grace of God or knowing that absolute truth. So we can say let's not delay and let's not waste time and let's whatever, but we have to also understand with great humility that that is actually grace. And in the laying of the table, that is something else, right? And I think in that satsang, then the yogi asked also, 'How does one do that?' Could you explain? Indeed, it came in that, 'Could you tell us then how? Where is it my effort and where is it grace?' And it was very beautifully put that you make an effort for your worldly pursuits. So if you can use that focus—I think focus is my own conclusion, that was not the word, but it came when I thought about it—I said to myself that my focus is so focused if I have decided to build my business or if I've decided to make my plants grow. I'm very focused. So just that focus on that table laying is more than enough. And I think that that table laying itself can also be a joyful journey because if we also say, 'Let's do it today, let's not waste time,' it's like quite heavy. Not that we are guilty of wasting time, but of course we are. But the main thing is that I really like that. It gave—it soothed me, it clarified very deeply. And also there's so much ego in that 'we must do it today.' Who are we going to do? We can't do. The only thing we can do is kill ourselves. It is a bit like that.

So, you know, I think with the deepening of the insight with, I think, thanks to Father and the Sangha and grace, it's starting to feel like God is everything as you said. So God is here. In fact, I would say God is here, the presence is of God. In fact, God is even more, even more than the presence, even more universal and subtle than even the quality of presence is here. And then if you kind of—what I tend to do is drill into my own body. So when I witness my own body, because that's the most intimate, what's most intimate to me observable is Prana. Like you know, as you say, watch your breath and watch the sensations of your body. And then if I witness them as objects—look at the objects because I can sense all the qualities, the Prana, you can watch your breath, you can feel all the contours of your body—I think the other insight feels like that's also made of Consciousness. In other words, even that is appearing from Consciousness, by Consciousness, being seen in Consciousness, right? It's only that somehow I grasped onto it and said, 'That's me,' because it's more gross. I was never used to seeing something subtle. It's like my instrument—I didn't have the right instrument. It's like if your eyes were weak, you only saw what you saw. You put on glasses, you saw something else. I wasn't attuned to seeing more subtle, more subtle. So I took the gross to be me. But it's always there.

And then I think it also sometimes feels like this body, I'm taking this to be real right now, but I know that in my dream there was a different body and there was a different world. And so the power of thought, because dream was only kind of thought, right? Something is coming to us. This body to be real, we really have to question. It's just coming like this.

Okay, so I'm going to ask you: what do you mean by 'I'm taking this body to be real now'? What does it mean to say I'm taking something to be real?

What I mean to say is it feels like the most subtle reality which is unchanging, from where the witnessing is happening, is just—let's just allow me to kind of struggle—layered, right? The place from which it's all happening, the true seeing, is myself, which is the unchanging, inseparable from the Self. And then there's the vibration 'I am,' and then there's the breath and the feeling of the body. But what I'm saying is before I came to satsang and before I knew to look inwards, I thought the body was primary, there was nothing else. And now it feels like the body is also—the knowing of the body is also made out of Consciousness. Like a little bit like the I-amness in that screen is kind of like the sensations of the body and the Prana is coming and going. And it's there, but it's witnessable by me. So it's like that's happening within also by the will of God. The body is being seen and the breath is being seen by the will of God, who is the only creator and He's really seeing it. And so the dream is not Arvind's dream, the dream is the Self's dream that this was real. But then if you can see—but then, thanks to this beautiful inward journey, you can see that it's all witnessable. And it's also changing. It's gone. Like after when I go to sleep, it's gone. As you said, in the deep sleep, no thoughts, no world, and then different world, different body.

This is so amazing because bringing up something first, very initially Father had asked me, very first or second, you looked at me and he said, 'Is this real?' I mean, what do you mean? It's so solid, you know? It felt so solid. I mean, it still feels like solid, but just like you're talking about, like this body is not there in the dream. It cannot have any solidity to it when it's just gone. I don't know how to put this across. It's the concept. It took many years for even a little of this to come. But somewhere I heard you, but it felt like, 'Yeah, my hand is solid.' But now I doubt it. More than doubt, it's clear that there's no solidity to anything in this realm. It's continuously moving. Even your body, in the sense of not movement, but there is no—even the idea that it's not there in your sleep, it doesn't even come into being. It doesn't even materialize in that sense. Only our next thought will tell us that the body is here. It's just filled with Consciousness, that's all. And it's just fresh. There's no past in history or future even for this. Somewhere I'm sure the minds are like going crazy, but no, sorry, I'm just speaking as it's coming.

You can only kill ourselves yesterday. There are a few categorizations which I noticed in the question. One was the categorization of soothing versus heavy. What can we do to set the table? This is great. And therefore then the question of postponing process images. Yeah, very good contemplations. And anything coming up, this 'now' can be heard as a very stressful thing by the mind, actually. It can be like, 'I must do it now.' So it's—yeah, I don't know, let me try. But it sometimes feels like a push is needed, you know, and sometimes a nudge is needed.

The categorization was soothing versus heavy. Yeah, what can we do to set the table? This is great. And therefore, then the question of postponing process images. Yeah, very good contemplations. And anything coming up, this 'now' can be heard as a very stressful thing by the mind, actually. It can be like, 'I must now do it now.' So, it's... I don't know. Let me try, but it sometimes feels like it's a push.

A push is needed, you know? And sometimes a nudge is needed. Sometimes there is no... I can't say now I'm always going to be like the heart is. You can never say that. It's just... it can be a Kali Roop, it can be a very Krishna-like Roop, it can be a very soft Roop. And it's better for us to not—I'm sorry, it might sound as a joke, but it's coming, I'm going to say it—it's better for us to not take a position as to, 'This is how I want the words to be' or Father's or of the Guru or the heart, you know? Because then we are boxing ourselves into what we want it to be like, and we cannot box the heart, you know? So, yeah, heard from the mind, I feel it can be very scary, of course. It's like, 'I have to do something.' Yet we have to do something. So, I don't know what to say. I think it just bursts our head, like we don't know what to do and we just let go, you know? Like just maybe, maybe not even that, though.

In terms of the symphonic nature of the sharing, sometimes it's very pushy, sometimes it's very sweet. Symphonic, hopefully, as an overall way is the way. It's not really a set of pointing, and it's not like you have a... you just... what the heart wants, then it just comes out. Like you know what's going on, but it's not like you can stop the way it's coming. Yes, as advice for sharing: instantly, if you start to second-guess your heart, then you start catering towards and all of that, and the authenticity of it will die down. And the fact is that because reality is so beyond conceptualization, and yet maybe we try to communicate in words, so sometimes we say left, left, sometimes really... how to say? Statement. I'm so grateful that they are description.

It can feel scary here also, like trust. And as the speaking was happening, it was very clear it was the heart. I was learning, except for that one time I was just like that... my interesting... but it's like you're getting a groove. Yeah, because earlier when you tried to say something strong, the voice was becoming so... you were trying to put this in your velvet glove. I am faced in a velvet glove bed. Now it is... yeah, you can come very strong. Like Mira was saying, it just becomes so... like just... it's a little like you're scared to just be that strong along. But you have to travel. Like even when this body thing was... so the contemplation is happening and it's alive here, and then the mind is saying that they won't even understand, maybe what are you blabbering? Like, you know, you're just going out of that. Father never talks like this. But you have to trust. Yes, you just have to trust.

Completely disagree with the content of the words that come, but something just draws you in because you can smell the fragrance of where it's coming from. And that is what everybody comes to satsang for, really. More than an understanding, they come for the fragrance of that presence speaking. It will be a great joy to be just like each one just coming here. So I feel like all of us want to talk of the heart. It's way too scared. Who wouldn't want to talk? To say something, though. And you are talking about that now, how it hasn't even materialized this world.

Yeah, I think the temperature is going... yeah, in a good way, in a good way. I want to hear more about that. Like, I would love to, because it's brewing here of like trees... like the body has... it's just full of light. Like, not my body, but every body. It's just there's just... you know, like we feel solidity and we... there's no solidity. Like, it's just everything is just so fluid and alive in God. Like in God, nothing... there's no like solid, liquid, gas kind of stuff, actually, you know? And it's too much for the mind, but your heart knows this. And the only way to know it is now, you know? It's like there's no materializing. It's just God. It's just God's light. Not even light, but God's light. Like, it's not light-light like the light will be seen; this is that. And we feel like our body has what that is, a body, and there are these... it's not true. Something new wants to hear it because you know it's true. It's just the light of God and it's finished.

Some something like that came up, right? That's just your mind. No, really, I mean it felt like it's not rather I was speaking. Yeah, something... the more you go into God, the greater He is. Just like, wow. And it's just like just to know that your body never... like you... there's no... there's nothing but God. What is not? This sounds like a simple statement, but it's so, so much more depth. Death and all is just like focus, focused. Sorry. And that... like that... like to have the faith in God. Because in our minds we feel like, you know, we have these laws of physicality, laws of, you know, this cannot happen, this... what am I blabbering? Feeling drunk and laughing or something amazing.

It just may feel like, you know, these laws of this world, like this is how things are. But in God there is no law of that sort. Anything can... next moment can be anything like that. Miracles are not just miracles, you know? It's like God can make anything happen if He wills. Like we can live for a thousand years if God wills in this body. No, no, nothing to stop Him. There's no law on Earth that, you know, my body has to be like a hundred years. Something is... they don't speak too much, just stopping them. We just gather like this informally and I'm like, right now I'm drinking this glass of water, but someday soon we'll drink galaxies. Drunkenness on God. Oh God, His mind just so like... but it's true. Oh my God, oh my God. Like don't limit anything like this. Don't be scared.

Come on. I feel like she didn't want it to be certain with me, though. But we don't hear you guys. We have a few minutes. You're not getting late. I'm not even asking how do you feel; it's implied. What a day you chose to the job. How do I start from something? I want to ask this to Father, actually, but I've been hearing about the feeling of presence in a localist way for a while and I've been struggling with that. I didn't feel it, still can't. But once in a while what happens is I have a sensation like the tingling sensations you keep saying about between my eyes. Once in a while it comes in satsang, sometimes it comes near a temple or something, sometimes near some people. So is that the same sensation we are talking about in general?

Sensation in the sense you're asking about beingness? Yes, it can be a byproduct of beingness. I mean, I can only talk from my experience. The tingling sensation that Father says, or as she was saying, I feel close to my heart, but that just is in the beingness for me. That can be a byproduct of beingness which can become more palpable sometimes. Like to say, when you're with certain people or with yourself in a calmer state, or in listening to something which takes you closer to her, this vibration can be more experienced. But in my experience, this vibration alone is not being. I mean, it is a part of the being, it can be a byproduct of the being, but it is not limited to only the tingling sensation. That's what I experience.

I don't really feel it as a tingling. It's a very... like the subtlest perception possible and yet indescribable in that way because I often say it's at the cusp of the manifest and unmanifest. Yeah, so sometimes I'm just being a bit careful of the word tingling because we start looking for some like tingling-type thing which is... this is more like a hum. Like if I had to pick between the two words, although both are not perfect for it, but this is like a constant hum within you. You look feeling some energetic movement in your... so that's not what I'm talking about.

Yeah, I have a question. Okay, yeah. I mean, like today made me experience that I am not a seeker, even though I have that blind spot removed. Like, you know, Guruji has helped me with removing many blind spots, but I think they do come back. I've seen that. How do I stop? I mean, how do I... well, it is not a mental understanding. I have experienced that. Still, over a period of time, there's a cloud that comes over you and you don't remember these pointers. So is there anything that we can do, really?

I think we can't plan it like, 'From now on I'll be like this,' you know? There is... you can't, because again it is from my mind. She's planning something, making it a project, right? So here what I do or what I experience is moment to moment. Moment to moment, this moment, offer it, surrender it. Sometimes it doesn't happen, it goes away. Next moment, the moment you realize, you come back. You come back. Nothing is lost. So that has to be just Grace. I mean, you can call it Grace. It's just nothing in my... I mean, I find Grace and effort going together sometimes nowadays. So what is the effort that I'm putting here? Nothing, right? You are consciously offering it, right? When you see that you have gone with the mind, you are consciously coming back, right? You can call it Grace, you can call it... it's like, you know, two sides of the same thing.

Yeah, that I do by staying with the presence or returning to the presence. That's the cycle I follow as an effort. But these blind spots, until somebody sees it, I would never recognize them.

But why are you worried about the... whom does it matter to? Right? It is again... do you see that it is again it's just that question which is waiting to get resolved? A resolver or a solver is somewhere, you know, trying to remove the blind spots, you know? So that is not needed. Surrender is not with any agenda of, you know, removing this or this, you know? Surrender is ultimate let go, you know? Like taking away our thing and offering it to somebody and let him do whatever he wants. That is the surrender, right? If the blind spots are staying, yes, that's also fine. If it is getting to know, that's also fine.

Just feel to speak about love for God because that is what is coming more alive. That day when you said insights, love, and faith should come together... I mean, it's all together. I still feel here now. So right now I feel love is the most... I don't know, right now it's what is felt very strongly here. Because I feel love for God is naturally there. Insights will come when it has to, and servitude is a natural byproduct of this love, you know? When you love somebody very immensely and wholeheartedly, unconditionally, being a servant is so natural and it's a joy, the highest joy you can get to, being in serving God. Also, I feel loving God is serving God, you know? You don't have to serve God; He doesn't need a servant also because He's that powerful and He doesn't even need a servant that way. But loving God unconditionally... I was telling him also that unconditionally loving God is the most beautiful thing that anyone can have. And when you love God unconditionally, I think you can love anyone unconditionally in that way. And like you were also saying, and around that time I was also having this insight that love for God is actually God's love for you, you know? There is no one here to love God that way. You're experiencing and in a way you're getting consumed in that love. Whatever is left as 'me' is getting consumed in that love, you know? Yeah, for that, like he was also saying, there is one step that sometimes I need to take, like sitting for that or just... but that also I feel it's Grace. Like I cannot differentiate between Grace and effort nowadays, you know? It is together. Whenever I am putting an effort, I find Grace immediately. It's a loop, you know? You really don't know where it is starting.

And in a way, you're getting consumed in that love. Whatever is left as 'me' is getting consumed in that love, you know? Yeah, for that, like he was also saying, there is one step that sometimes I need to take, like sitting for that. But that also I feel it's Grace. I cannot differentiate between Grace and effort nowadays, you know? It is together. Whenever I am putting an effort, I find Grace immediately. It's a loop, you know? You really don't know where it is starting or ending. So yeah, that's what is coming to say.

Physical Father, I think I'm sure you also gone through the journey. She's gone through the journey which I didn't understand earlier. Like, you go through these kriya yogas and all. I'm sure you also gone. Why do you do that if your body is not real? Why do people who have been through that journey say that you have to do this? If you are saying that the body is not real, does it actually mean that you're identified with the body? But the body is there, right? And you do this, the Kundalini awakening and all that. Why do you go through that process then?

I think it starts from a—I feel different paths start from different starting points in a way, you know? That's what I've understood from my thing, that most of us are identified with the body. You know, from the time we were young, we were taught that this is me, and we have been identified with this. So to come out of it, there are many ways. So one of the ways is kriya yoga, where—I mean, I've not done much of kriya yoga stuff, it's more of the yoga thing that I've done. So in that also, once you start with the asanas, you take then to pranayams and then finally it comes to the dhyana part, the meditation part. So it's taking you beyond. Not let's—then the beyond is not like continuously 24/7, it's not like this. Just that moment, that moment just takes you one step, one step away from the identification.

That is, you know, kriya yoga. I mean, what in the Inner Engineering, I think that what I remember is you focus on the sensations more, you know? Sensations of the—what you call his body is basically sensation. Do you see that sometimes? Like Mooji also says that unless you pull your ear, you don't realize you have an ear. It's like that. We have just assumed that we are body-identified, but most of the time, like when you're sitting, you may not be identified with many parts of your body unless there is a pain or a sensation there.

Because we are identified with the body, most of us are identified with the body when you start on that journey. In the Bhakti Marga, like if you are on the Bhakti path, you've put everything, all your focus on the Lord, you know, to whom you're worshipping. So again, the self-concern is taken. The identification with your individuality, be it your body or your name, whatever it is, it's taken to God, Krishna or Shiva, whomever you are devoted to. So kriya yoga is not a Bhakti path; it's a different path where you are, you know, doing certain processes to go out of your body identifications, right? Because we—I think things that we are—when we are doing kriya yoga, we start with an identification that we are the body. So I think the starting points are different in different paths. That's what I felt. I don't know, maybe you can...

All right. So what I feel is—no, I'm answering your questions, okay? So why would I do kriya yoga or Jnana Yoga or any yoga if you see that the body is not here? Because like she said, you were conditioned to believe it to be true, and you see it through your eyes and this is your body, this is your body. Whatever. You didn't always know that, but now to make you uncondition it, I can say this is not your body, but you don't believe me because you believe something else for really long. So only when you will experience it otherwise can you say, 'Yes, it's not—I'm not that. I'm not really only my body.' Or it's not even a body in the way I think of a body, like a physical form with a, you know, like a fixed shape and all of that.

See, when you do kriya yoga, say, then you start noticing that you're not even your breath because you can observe it. I mean, that's not even happening in the body, you know? You start because your vision or your experience becomes so subtle that you can experience it otherwise. And only when you can experience it otherwise will you be satisfied, you know? It's only when you eat the mango can you have the taste. But to first eat that mango, all right, say, eat it. So when the Master says do something and you start following what he's saying is when you'll experience what he's trying to say to you. But if you don't even want to look that way, you won't ever know what he's trying to say to you, even though it may be true.

And one contemplation which Father made us do is like when he says, 'Who watches this hand or anything?' and you say, 'It's me.' And then if you ask yourself, 'How do I know this is me?' Right? Because now if you just ask yourself, what's David, that question, 'How do I know this is me?' a lot gets revealed to you in your own contemplation. That how I know this is me is not because I know I'm a body or because I have a thought or any of that. I mean, I can tell you the answer, but that wouldn't be the same as you're looking for yourself, really looking at it. That's my answer.

She just tried, you know, just to be able to replay in any way of books, yeah, or whatever. Just coming to see that I feel like many of these, these kriyas and all, they're not just for the body also. I feel like they...

One question, there was one for—give us one forward which we were discussing, which we're going to complete. So I'll just read that: 'God didn't need perfection from David and He doesn't need it from any of us. He doesn't need it from any of us. When we allow God to use our weaknesses, He can put us to use even more. When we admit to our brothers and sisters that we have failed and are struggling, we can grow in community and have people to walk with. Through repentance, we can more clearly see God work in our lives and we can live in freedom from shame. Furthermore, we can show the world that being a Christian doesn't mean being perfect; rather, it means being forgiven.' Can we go through this? I mean, what I hear—I mean, I only sent it to you, I guess, but I forgot that what I hear is: be authentic, be most honest to yourself and, like, don't aim for perfection. Like you said, my blind spots are still there, right? You know? So somewhere there is a wanting of perfection, that I should be without blind spots.

So what can I ask you? For what? For what? No, why? Why do you want the blind spots to be seen? And I think that what you're saying, yeah, so it's not like anything in the world—like anything in the world needs improving, you know, reaching there, right? But God is the very starting point. You never lose God, you never miss God, right? So you don't have to improve yourself to reach there. Improving is an idea of the world, I feel, you know? It's an idea that: compete, improve, struggle to get something. That is an idea that we have learned from the world, you know? From maybe from the very young age, you know, the conditioning that we have had has always taught us to be, you know, to improve ourselves, get better, perfect ourselves. And then you get a struggle. In that moment to be with God also, there is a struggle, yeah.

So that's what that we have to take. Yeah, you're weak there, yeah. So, so, so that weakness, how can we accept that weakness? I mean, we have to get over that weakness, right? In that moment? I mean, I would say why to even get over that? Accept it fully and kneel down and pray, you know? Like, why to get over the weakness? Again, it's an improvement, right? That I have to overcome this challenge that I have. I understand your earnestness to come back to God, that is there. But if you have a hurdle, you accept that I have a hurdle and kneel down and pray to God and let Him take it away if He has to. Do you see that point of view?

No, something else. Like, what is the challenge? When I pray, when I accept it, I feel like I'm not being honest there. Accepting is honesty, right? But, but accepting means I am—I'm not—I mean, what do you say? How do you put it? Ah, yeah, I'm not trying enough, kind of. Like, I've accepted that I feel fine, done, and I need to get over that.

Yeah, so like Father says, if it feels like an effort, take that effort. Is that what you're saying? Exactly. If it feels like effort, take that effort. So but here they mentioned that God will make use of your weaknesses. I mean, what does that mean then? In the sense, um, what do you—your vulnerability or your, yeah, being raw, right? Not pretending or believing in your capabilities. You know what I learned recently? I mean, with the discussion with Father, I still rely a lot on my capabilities to reach God. My capabilities, whatever be that, maybe my insights, my love for God—all these are my capabilities according to my mind. I still rely on this to reach God. But these are not—do you see? These are not. Insight is not my own. Even love for God, I would say, it is not my—it is...

You pray to God that these are my weaknesses, yes, help me to get over that as of now. Yeah, help—not even get over there. Put the focus on God, you know? I don't know from where you're speaking this, I'm not getting a really sense of it. What do you—like if one day I say that I don't take a sweet, but I just take it. I don't take it because it's sweet, but I just take it. So I feel that. So then I say to God, 'God, okay, I am weak. Do give me strength to get over it.'

Yeah, yeah, you can pray, but put the attention more on God. Put the attention more on God's power and capability, not on yours. Not on your capability to control yourself. Put the focus and trust on God's ability to guide you. God's power and God's ability to guide you rather than your capability to control. Don't ask for 'give me more strength to control myself' in that way. You can—the words can be different. I'm just saying whatever is coming here, but put the trust more on God. Trust more on God, not ask Him for power for you to have to control something. I mean, I don't know, I'm mumbling some block to get the correct importance in my mind also, but I'm—I think I'm, you know, whenever we pray somewhere, I mean recently I've also started realizing, when we pray somewhere, you are asking for yourself. So again, about you, right? That should not be there.

But I understand for God, you have to trust only on God. Like Father says, there is no—you can't deserve God. You can't be worthy of God. Yes, that—I mean, that really went very deep, I feel, because you can't be worthy. All this while we are trying to improve ourselves in the spiritual sadhana or getting more understanding or doing practices just to make us more worthy, right? Even removing these blind spots, I feel it is to make yourself more worthy, that 'I'm clean, I'm all ready for You.' But you—I don't think that will help, you know? You have to only trust on God. Let God be God, you know? That God is the all-powerful, only powerful Being. That's what the last sentence—can you read once again?

'Furthermore, show the world that being a Christian doesn't mean being perfect; rather, it means being forgiven.'

Yeah, so you can't be a perfect disciple or a perfect seeker worthy of God. There's nothing called perfection. Very complicated? No, it's very simple. You don't have to struggle at all. Don't make it about you; make it about God. Thank you.

It doesn't matter who talks, no? If they're talking from God, that's good news. It's the heart meets when God meets God, like evidence. And it doesn't matter whose mouth it comes out of. If it's true, you meet it. You're crying in the beauty of it. Or that the resistance is—I'll just enjoy it and out of so much joy. And to hear that speaks, there was no resistance, but so much beauty. And it doesn't—it doesn't feel like it's—it's like you are speaking.

Make it about God. Thank you. It doesn't matter who talks, no? If they're talking from God, that's good news. It's the heart meeting when God meets God. And it doesn't matter whose mouth it comes out of; if it's true, you meet it. You're crying in the beauty of it, or the resistance is gone. I'll just enjoy it. Out of so much joy to hear that speak, there was no resistance but so much beauty. And it doesn't feel like it's... it's like you are speaking through them. There's no doubt.

Grace has for some reason brought us together. None of us expected to be here. I certainly didn't, and I don't feel like any of you planned that one day you will be in satsang with Ananta or something like that. So may that Grace of the Holy One enable this instrument of the Sangha itself—not just the body of one Ananta, but the entire instrument of the Sangha itself—be used to share His light, to share His presence, to share His love.

If you can keep this inner feeling, the inner intention to be an instrument of God's light, that will keep us safe. Because there are many temptations on this path of sharing, and everything which becomes available to the one who is sharing and has devotees or disciples there... to remember that all of this is God's grace alone is very important. I want to definitely be available to help all of you mature in this because I don't want this body to be gone and then all of you are scrambling with the temptations of sharing satsang, and the temptations of power and money and all of these and many other things which come along the way.

So I want to be here to guide you and also to chop your head off if I start noticing any pride or arrogance starting to build up. I feel like it's just part of my job as a father to enable this whole process to happen. My children speak, and I am very happy. My feeling is to continue the experiment. I don't know what shape it will take and where we go from here. For now, I know just the next feeling is to continue with this. Where it goes, I don't know. But one thing I'm very happy about is that if over a period of some time it can become more satsang with Sangha rather than satsang with Ananta, I am entirely happy with that feeling. That is feeling more in tune with this expression. To have it all centered about one man doesn't feel so natural. It has to always be about God.

Okay, so thank you for today. It was very beautiful. I also felt very restful and feeling great, blissful, and nice. Something beautiful unfolds as you share from God's light.