The Only Determinant of Spirituality Is the Time We Intend To Spend With God - 3rd February 2025

Yes. So, but if the aspiration is correct, so you want to be with Him in your heart, do you have the right tools to do it? Don't worry, it's not a judgment on my daughter.

I don't know. I don't.

You don't know if you have the tools to do so? What are the tools of spirituality? Let's dive into it a little more. All the sages have given us pathways so that we can be with God, isn't it? That's their life's purpose. Now, whether we say the jnanis gave pathways for self-discovery, for Atma Gyan, which is to discover who we truly are, and the bhaktas gave us the pathways to fall more and more deeply in love and a deep devotion for God—both of those pathways are the same, so don't worry about the distinction. So these tools could be self-inquiry, could be prayer, could be remaining empty of ourselves, could be all kinds of sadhana, you see. So, would you say that any of the tools deeply resonates with your heart, and which tool would that be?

It shifts. It's not consistently one thing. So sometimes I want to just chant His name, I want to just hear His name, or sometimes just ponder how He is.

Okay. So currently, what is resonating the most these days?

Bhajan to listen, listening and repeating or chanting.

You're doing chanting? Okay. So, two to four hours every day to chant. How much are you doing right now?

Not between those hours.

So, I'm saying two to four hours, and I've told everyone here that because that is the amount of time it takes for me to be with God for most of the time. If I don't do that, then my day is wasted. So, I can only advise what works for me. So, what stops you from, let's say, one hour every day?

Distraction.

Yes, yes. Now look at it this way: if suppose this waking state was true and we are awake for sixteen, seventeen, eighteen hours every day, in those eighteen hours, how many minutes are we okay for God not to be with us? Hmm? Ten minutes? Are you okay if He leaves the hand for ten minutes? Not okay. So, in return for His constant love, mercy, and presence, at least one hour we should be able to, you see? Because otherwise it's a very selfish, one-sided relationship, isn't it? If a human relationship was like that, what would you say? Unfair, no? If your partner treated you this way, you would not be happy, isn't it? That you are constantly with him sixteen, seventeen hours, and you don't get any attention or any desire to be with you—that you would call it off soon, isn't it?

So, God in His mercy doesn't do that. He's constantly with us, ever available, ever present as the presence itself. So, to be present to His presence using the Nam japa that you're doing is something that you must do. Now, most of us, especially youngsters, will say that, 'But I have too many distractions,' you see. So, how is it that as we get older, some of us are able to put more time towards God? Because usually some bodily suffering happens, some other suffering happens; we've seen through the ephemeral nature of human pleasure, which seems so exciting at one point of time, but after a particular time, hopefully we recognize that the true Ananda comes from being in His presence. So, because hopefully with experience as we grow, we realize that either through suffering or the ephemeral nature of Maya's pleasure, we're not really as interested as we were in it, you see.

But for youngsters also, you must take this lesson: that at least two hours, if you can do that, is just one-eighth of your waking state. Even if you sleep comfortably eight hours, it's just one-eighth of your waking state. For the most important relationship in your life, you should be able to take out the time. Because without that, if I was to ask you, 'Are you able to sit quietly in your heart temple where His unperceivable light is present, where true jnana flows and true bhakti grows?' what would you say? This is for everyone. So, he can keep speaking about the heart temple, the heart altar, but if you don't build it brick by brick, moment by moment, and spend time in His presence, then soon this life will be over. Even though it doesn't seem like that, moment by moment, day by day, this life will get over. Do you feel that in your chanting you come to a quiet place which you don't want to leave?

There are moments, and then like something pulls me out. There will be moments where I won't realize the time. I didn't see the time or anything, then sometimes it will just pull me out.

And then what pulls you out? Are you able to spot that, notice that?

Thought.

Thought, exactly, exactly. So, allow these thoughts to come and go, and you remain. And it's difficult. What I'm saying is very difficult. So, in spirituality, the funny thing is that everyone feels like they can reach expertise without any really sustained practice. Because it's like that—nobody will tell other professions, like doctors and engineers and rocket scientists and brain surgeons, that we don't assume any expertise over there because we have not studied it, we've not practiced it. But in spirituality, we all feel that, 'Okay, it's just happening, it's going to happen by itself.' But if spirituality was a profession, it would be the sweetest and yet the most difficult profession we could undertake.

So, unfortunately, what's happened in the world today is that spirituality has become like a self-help program. It's made to seem like it's not difficult. It is designed to give us ease in our life, which is ultimately true, but initially we have to go through a lot of difficulty. The difficulty is to transcend Maya. Now, some of you upon hearing me will say, 'It's too difficult, it's not for me, I can't do this.' But unfortunately for you, or for any of us, there is no option B. So, option B is to be stuck taking the illusion to be real, to take darkness to be light and the false to be true, not knowing who we are, taking ourselves to be bundles of flesh and blood. So, it is not an escape route at all to say that, 'I'm not cut out for this difficulty,' because then what? So, would you prefer to get the naked truth which is scary, or a feel-good truth which is not true? A feel-good set of concepts which doesn't really shake us up into a deeper spirituality? Did I scare you too much? That is not the intention, really. I'm only sharing what I've learned the hard way through the grace of God and through the grace of my Master. What I've learned the hard way is what I'm sharing with all of you.

Okay, who wants to go next? Why aren't you spiritual? And again, some of you came later, so let me define what I'm saying. I said the only determinant of spirituality is the time that we intend to spend with God on a daily basis. And I said 'intend to' because the outcome is up to Grace. We can only go humbly with open arms and open heart saying, 'Bless me with your presence.' But no power in this universe can force His presence upon us. No power in the universe can force Atma Gyan onto us. We may chant the highest, most activated spiritual mantra, we may do the highest inquiry, 'Who am I?' but unless it is His grace, you will not be blessed by the presence of Atma, the presence of spirit itself. When you ask this question, 'Why am I...' is there an intention?

So right now, it doesn't... it's not coming from inside that I have to be with God. It's just that I'm doing my prayers and trying to avoid the worldly desires and because I'm being with Ma and Ma is teaching us so much. But when you ask these questions, I'm not able to give it with integrity that it's my intention, really. It's more like a push model, right? It's not happening.

Okay. What if the push model was not there? Then what? What is plan B? There's no plan B. Be careful of Maya, because Maya gives us distractions, gives us alternatives to God, but those alternatives are just vaporware, to use your terminology. So, let's dive more into this. Why do you need to be pushed?

Every time I sit to pray, the mind tells that there is something better than doing that.

Okay, for example?

Like, suppose I pray in the morning, it gives me... like right now I'm planning for the marriage, it says, 'Yeah, this is not done,' or work, like, 'This is pending,' or somebody's... I have to speak to someone. Something or the other. And like almost every time I go into that and I have to come back. It's never that I don't go with what it's saying. I have to come back after like few minutes or sometimes even some hours.

Yes. So, work, marriage...

It tells me that there is something better than doing that. Okay, for example, like suppose I pray in the morning. Right now I'm planning for the marriage. It says, 'Yeah, this is not done' or 'Work like this is pending' or 'I have to speak to someone.' Something or the other. And like almost every time, I go into that and I have to come back. It's never that I don't go with what it's saying. I have to come back after like a few minutes or sometimes even some hours.

Yes. So work, marriage, health of the body, even spiritual growth—if it is not God's will, would any of them happen? No. Just by your strength, can we move the slightest thing in this world? No. Unless it is the will of God, nothing will move in any of these things, you see. And all our lives are the same. The same four variables we spoke about last time also, where Maya distracts us with these simplistic worldly things which seem very important, but it doesn't tell us that unless it is God's grace, nothing auspicious can unfold in our lives. So why not be with the source of all auspiciousness instead of bowing down to our own ego, our own pride, our own resourcefulness, our own strength?

All the good things that are happening in your life—and may it be so and may they grow—are happening by whose grace? By God's grace. So like a parent, He does everything for us. And still, of course, we are mostly not happy with what all He's given us. But even as a parent who is doing all of this for us, does He deserve your time, attention, and love? Yes. Do you know how much time it needs to come to the realization of the Self? No, we don't know. None of us. And we can't use a benchmark. I cannot tell you, 'Okay, in my case, this is how long it took,' so let's apply that, because we don't actually know.

Are you willing to come to the end of your life without coming to the realization of the truth or the divine union with God?

No. Like, I say no, but I'm not actually doing anything because I know that's not true. Yeah, but I know in my heart.

Does the world seem more real or God seem more real?

Most of the day, the world seems real. Only when I'm in prayers or hearing some audiobook or trying to contemplate that time.

So much, child. I have to tell you that your spirituality is in the ICU. It needs a lot of focus, a lot of care. Otherwise, this world can just sweep you away, especially with the events in your life which are coming up—more responsibility, maybe children, you don't know what all is coming. So when all this pull comes, it may just do its dance. It may show you the world's light and sound show, and you may feel like God can wait. And once you take that call, then it can really pull you away for a long, long time.

And the real thing is that, are we happy in Maya? It gives us glimpses, you see. It gives us some chocolate once in a while; it pulls us in. But we don't really have any peace, any contentment. Every day is more worry, more struggle, more trouble. You've seen many people around you; learn from them. You see, all of us have enough people around us who may be now well-accomplished in life, got everything that on paper the world has to offer, but are they happy? Are they smiling? Are they peaceful? Are they content? They are not. So you have to make this promise that no matter what, at least you will spend one hour with God or intend to spend one hour with God.

Yes. One more question. Because Mooji has told us to do this focused prayer for two hours, I'm doing that. But it's just that during doing two hours every day—not like every day, yes, but I must have missed a few days, but I do it most days. Okay. But I don't feel it, that I'm actually doing it. It's more of a—not focused, but I definitely sit with only the prayer, not do anything else. That's good, but I don't—I can't say that I'm really doing it. It's just like a push model because Mooji said I'm doing it. So is it like what they say, sorry, is it—?

Yes, not really. But I get a sense. Why do you come to satsang?

A lot of love for God. Love Krishna, love Jesus Christ. And then I have seen a few things in my life where, because God is really our ultimate, none of the worldly things even come close to God. Not even close. Yes, that's why I come to satsang, to love God.

And so, I love God, I love Krishna. Beautiful. Now, if I was to say I love her a lot, I love him a lot, you see, but actually I have to be forced to talk to him or be with him, you see, it's not love. So what is the evidence of that love? When we are in love, do we have to be forced? We can't stay away, isn't it? When we are in love, or even when we feel love even for parents or children or siblings, then do we have to be forced to make a phone call?

So that love which you feel in your heart, which is true—I'm not denying that—that love has to grow where it feels like a joy. And that's why I'm always pushing everyone in satsang, saying, when I say two to four hours, why doesn't anyone say, 'Can you make it eight?' because I love God so much? Why is everyone discounting? 'Can I count this also? Can I...?' We are always looking for ways to reduce that instead of saying, 'How can I spend more time with the Beloved?' The very source of love, from where all that is good, all that is auspicious, all that is beautiful, all that is true—it all comes from there. Why we want to reduce that time? Those who fall in love want to increase that time.

If I said you have to talk to—because you're getting married, so I'm making the statement, I hope it's not incorrect in any way—but if I said to you that you have to speak to her two to four hours every day, you'd say it feels very natural, it feels very... why? Because there is love. So love is not forced. If it is forced, it is not love. Of course, as teachers, our job is to prod, our job is to provoke. But can I really force anyone to pray? I can say pray, you will say, 'I prayed two hours,' but in the two hours, half the time was thinking about work, the other half the time was thinking about relationship. It could be all of these things.

So how to deepen that love? Because when there is love, it does not need to be forced. How to deepen that love for God? Again, fortunately or unfortunately, the only solution is to spend more time empty of me, full of God. And do you feel like God doesn't know that you're doing it just because your teacher is forcing you? It's not an Excel sheet—'Day one, two hours was done; day two, two hours done.' What matters to God, like it matters to all parents, is the intention. If I force my son or daughter to call me for two hours every day, will I feel like they love me? I just forced them.

So return to the love that you feel for God. Remember the love that you get in return from Him or Her, whichever way you see it. And remember that you don't want to leave this life without merging with God, or another way of saying, without knowing who you truly are. Never feel like you have too much time.

Very good. Thank you. Very good. I'm very happy with the honesty on one button. So it's like, I'm new to this. Last year I met Mooji in Mumbai, so I was not knowing this can be also a path. Because I've seen so much in the past that I really still live in the past. I'm not—I don't pray. I can tell it is not focused. Mooji gives many aids, tools, but it's still not that. Focus is only on worldly things.

Okay. What is the—because many of you say that if you focus all your time on worldly things, what is the end outcome you're hoping for? Even in worldly things they say, you know, 'Plan B.' Now, this is your five-year plan, this is your ten-year plan. So what is your fifty-year plan? Because we spend so much time in Maya, what is the final outcome that we can hope to get in Maya? It might be to get a good job, a good house, or to just solve the issues of families. So then, fifty-year plan, what is it? Where does it go?

So if I'm telling you—and you don't, I mean, I can't force you to have faith in what I'm saying—I'm telling you that this... okay, let me use the words of a heavyweight, which means that this opportunity does not come to us again and again. What is the opportunity we have received? We have the ability as humans to contemplate the highest truth, you see. Grace has brought us to satsang. We have been given the tools. The path that has been given is very direct, you see. It's none of that 'do twenty years of sadhana first, then the truth will be shared with you.' None of that. As much as you can assimilate, whether it is Atma Gyan, whether it is Bhakti, it is available to you.

So this is the golden opportunity that Kabir Ji is talking about, and he's told us that it doesn't come again and again. Do you think there's a one percent chance that he could be lying? There's no chance. If Kabir Ji could lie, then what? All of us are big liars. So if there's zero percent chance that he could be lying, then don't you feel like you want to use this opportunity in this way? What is the offer that he's talking about? The opportunity to meet God. To meet God, to spend your life with Him, to know yourself. And you yourself are saying that there is no chance that he could be lying. So really contemplate this. Really contemplate this.

Because it's not easy. The people around us and our mind tells us, 'First you do your worldly things, you finish your worldly responsibilities, you see, get all that sorted. Then when it's time, then you can turn towards God,' you see. And what happened? I should not do this, but every time I bring up my Nani, she used to do Ramacharitmanas path. But her Ramacharitmanas path was very distracted. Like as a child I couldn't understand, but now... she would sing like a chaupai or something and then she would like, you know, like this, she would always be... so it was almost like what he's saying, that because somebody probably told her that it's good to do this prayer using the Ramacharitmanas, but it was very distracted, it was very forced.

This is what happens. Our conditioning keeps getting deeper and deeper, deeper and deeper. So what do I mean by that? You have a sense of it, right? Our ideas become stronger and stronger—what we think is right or wrong, what we take ourselves to be. Many older people say, 'Now I have really understood who I really am,' but they're not talking about the truth of who they are. They're really saying, 'My personality is this,' you see. And they solidify their conditioning so deeply that by the time you want to start the spiritual project at a much older age, it's very difficult to work with those because the mind has become so strong because we have put so much allegiance to it. So whenever Grace brings you to this opportunity, to the Satguru, we must not let it go. Your mind was playing tricks here. It'll happen; it'll try every... give the mic back.

So this is it. Yeah, it's already... one side of it is the mic. So the thing you said, that this is the opportunity not to be wasted, so this is very true. But there are many distractions. Like I just need my phone to see something, or just I need someone to talk. I can't sit alone. It's very hard.

It will come. Your patience will grow, your faith will grow, your courage will grow, your trust in God will grow. Yes. Swami Ramdas said something very beautiful. He said that means try giving your heart once truly, see what happens. Take the risk. It seems like a risk because truly to offer ourselves up fully to God—'I'm Yours, God'—see what happens. So then you will see that it is not easy, my child. I'm not at all saying it's easy. All this Maya, it's very easy if Maya was not there. But because Maya is such a trickster, she's such a temptress.

What did Kabir Ji say again, since we mentioned him? You know what he said about Maya? He said that she is the 'Mahathagini.' You know what is the Mahathagini? The greatest con artist. Why she's the con artist? Because she takes us away from what is real and gives the illusion of reality in the unreal. So then this world, distraction, phone call, conversation, all of that is... my throat is getting a little this thing. So can Mira share the story of Narada and Maya and Krishna while I just refresh myself for a moment? I've already shared it with them. Say it again. Okay.

So, closer. Narada Muni asked Krishna, 'What is Maya?' and Krishna said...

The greatest con artist—why she's the con artist? Because she takes us away from what is real and gives the illusion of reality in the unreal. So then this world, distraction, phone call, conversation, all of that is... my throat is getting a little this thing, so can Meera share the story of Narada and Maya and Krishna while I just refresh myself for a moment? I've already shared it with them.

Say it again? Okay. So, Narada Muni asked Krishna, 'What is Maya?' And Krishna said, 'Take this glass of water and go and fill it at the river close by.' So when he goes to the river, Narada Muni, as he's filling the water, he sees across the road a very beautiful girl. So he falls madly in love with her just looking at her. She also likes him, and he forgets all about the water. And he goes to that girl, speaks to her dad—yeah, heard this version—so then the father is the head of the village. So they get married and they have children. He has cattle, so he's looking after the cattle. And the father dies, then he becomes the head of the village. And they have children and they have a very happy life. And one day, a flood comes in their village and one by one the cattle goes, the house goes, the fields go, everything goes in the flood. And then in the end, he has his two, three children on his head, one on the back, one in his arms, and one by one the children also die. And then his wife also dies, is gone in the flood. So then he's sitting on a rock and crying when Krishna comes and he says, 'Where is the glass of water that I asked you for?' And he then remembers that Krishna had asked me the meaning of—I had asked him the meaning of 'What is Maya?' And so he tells him that this is Maya.

Thank you. So we have to have the courage to take the risk. Bet your life on God. It does not seem easy and many days we will falter, we will fall down. All of us fall down. But make that bet in your heart. Say to God inwardly, 'God, I'm yours. My heart belongs to you. My life belongs to you.' Just in that spirit of surrender, you will see that your life will transform.

Yes. Feeling like there's a feeling of lost... is it the right way? This like the feeling of lost? I feel probably could be some hours you're lost in love of God, but just a minute and it's gone. Like some sway will take you away and then I'm lost in all the worldly things that I have to do, this, that, whatever. I see the mind creating problems and I even see like how soon from 'Krishna likes butter' to 'butter is in the fridge' and 'what's in the fridge for me?' So the attention is always there in the mind. Like the attention is always there. Intention, attention... attention is always for the thought, on the thought. So even when I'm praying, the intention is to tell that I'm leading a spiritual life. It's... don't know.

Okay, let me ask you a question. Suppose last year you climbed a very, very difficult mountain. Would you say that you climbed the mountain or the mountain took you away? The mountain. Now in Satsang you may say, 'Yes, it was Grace over the mountain,' but usually we will say, 'I climbed the mountain.' But when we get distracted, then we say, 'Oh, the mind takes me away.' Can the mind take us away without our permission? It can seem like that. Most of the time it may seem to all of us that the mind just holds sway over us and takes us away. Is it? But it's not true. Attention and belief. Because you are Consciousness, okay? And it's okay, we can talk much more about this for a long time. But are the primal forces of Consciousness attention and belief? Attention seems a little more tricky, but attention really doesn't create havoc. It is the belief which causes identification with the false, and it is belief which causes us to pick the 'me' over God. Is it? And so allow the mind to come. Notice that you have attention and you have belief. Have you noticed this? Have we talked about this before?

So a thought may come and say that, 'Okay, I feel like you're a turtle.' If the thought is absurd like that, see, move on. There's no chance of belief. But if a thought comes and says, 'What if I was to embark on this pilgrimage? Maybe I'll get closer to God, and I love nature also anyway,' you see? So then that seems to get some belief because that is what the conditioning that we have nurtured for ourselves is. Is it? But notice that no thought by itself can force your belief on it. So the thought by itself cannot take you away. Is it? So once we change the locus of responsibility, then our spirituality grows and we start saying that 'I go with my thought,' you see? Although it may not seem like that in many moments, but I go with my thought, meaning I give it my attention, I also give it my belief.

So when I started sharing Satsang, I used to use this example of the ATM machine. You know what the ATM is, right? It's... I think it started off as Automated Teller Machine and then it became more fun to call it Anytime Money. So it's the Anytime Money machine. So similarly we have an ATM machine. You know what it is? Unfortunately, it's not Anytime Money; it is Anytime Misery. So what is that ATM machine? Anytime Misery machine: Mind. But now how do you access this ATM machine?

I feel by grasping onto the mind.

Grasping, very good. So in the ATM example, first you put the ATM card in. What is this ATM card? Attention to mind. This example is perfectly made for Satsang. ATM card is the Attention to Mind card. So you put the attention to the thought. Without attention... and you notice that so many sadhanas are taking the attention away, isn't it? But even after putting the ATM card in, does the money come out from my ATM machine? In the same way, misery does not come out from the ATM machine unless you put in what? The PIN number. What is the PIN? Personal Identification, which is belief. See? So to get misery in life, you have to do a lot of work. You have to go to the mind, give it your attention, give it your belief, which is to identify, to put in personal identification. Unless you do that, you cannot be caught up with the mind. Have you noticed these mechanics?

So just stay empty like that. If a thought comes and takes you away, then you have to look at this more and more. The more you contemplate in your quiet time, the more stronger you will see yourself inwardly, where you will see that you will always remain empty even though thoughts may come, attention may also go to them, but you will not, like you said, grasp at them with your belief. What is the instrument of grasping? You see, it is to own them, just to believe them.

All these old examples are... there's a sushi chain in the world called Yo! Sushi. Some of you have seen it, many of you must have seen it. What do they have? They have a conveyor belt in the restaurant. On the conveyor belt—oh, it's here also now, Lucky Chan—so they have this conveyor belt where they keep putting the dishes, you see. Now, can the conveyor belt force you to pick up a dish? Can't force. In the same way, the mind will keep offering you dishes, and they are all dishes of misery. But the mind cannot force you, because you are Consciousness, to pick up the dish. So let it, like a conveyor belt, keep offering you. Don't pick up. And nobody wants to pick up every dish. Nobody wants to pick up every dish. It's only those that we have nourished in the past, nurtured in the past with our identification. Yeah?

So you may want to climb mountains. If I ask Dr. Jyoti, 'Do you want to climb?' maybe she does, I don't know, but it's probably not as attractive to her to climb, you see. So thoughts are fine-tuned to us, and many, many thoughts come and go, we don't even bother with them. But the ones that really grab us are the ones that we have really nurtured into our conditioning, you know. So it could be whatever we felt excited about in the past, whatever we wanted to achieve, or some ambition, things like that. So it is these thoughts which keep us embroiled in Maya.

As you do your sadhana, whether it is prayer, inquiry, sitting empty, focusing on your breath, whichever—there are thousands of sadhanas in the world—the basis of any sadhana is that we don't get caught up in believing this false identification. Now take yourself to be a body-mind. Without believing a thought, who are you now? Without belief in thought, you're not even Manu. The name also needs the thought. So the attachment to name and form is called Maya. Like say, 'me' is Maya, the 'me' coming. So it cannot come unless you grasp at the thought. But don't give yourself the reason that it comes and takes you away. It cannot. Just like the—sorry—the ATM cannot force you to withdraw money, it cannot force you to pick up the identification, pick up the wrong belief in yourself. If it was like that, then there would be no end to avidya, you see. There would be no end to Maya. But there is an end to Maya. But it starts with this deep love for God, a deep desire for recognizing who we are, and a deep commitment that 'I will not buy any false story about myself.' And the mind is just a peddler of these false stories, of these narratives.

Without this, you have no shape, you see. You have no shape. All these sensations that we call the body are just appearing within you. What is your boundary? Where do you start? Where do you end? When were you born? The one that witnesses all of this, what is the shape of that one? So keep at it. Keep up your... yes. And just take a break for a minute, walk about a bit. Okay, who wants to go next?

First, and then Father, I feel that... should we spare him today? That I have the intention, I feel now very recently that there is an intention within me, and not just because Mother is telling me, to be with God and to really... there is a... I feel I don't like this person that I am.

The... you don't like the person that you are?

Yes, the way in the worldly way that I am. But I find myself...

Sorry, the spiritual person is much more dangerous than a worldly person. You want to spend a bit of time on this? So the idea of spirituality is the dissolution of the person, isn't it? Now when the person becomes spiritual, then they build around them the defense of spiritual concepts, which is very difficult to go through. The worst ones in the world, like Ravana, and you look at in every tradition, there are characters like that, embodiment of spiritual pride. So as far as the person is concerned, let the person be confined to the world only. Let the person be confined to the world. You, which is you as Consciousness, are freeing yourself from the shackles of personhood, are freeing yourselves from the false Maya and deepening in your Oneness with God, in your recognition of your Oneness with God, and deepening in the true love that is there in this play of One. So there's no reason to dislike the worldly nature of the person. You just free yourself more and more from the person itself. And also that... what do you feel about this man sitting next to me? You like him or dislike him?

Doesn't exist.

Because it doesn't exist. The person doesn't actually exist. If you focus on either liking too much, like favorite, or disliking too much, 'I hate myself,' both give emphasis and attention and belief too much into a non-existent entity. So banish that thought from your mind.

Okay, Father. So this part, Father, where I feel I keep getting stuck in positions, either to protect myself from feeling a certain way or to feel good that, 'Okay, I'm doing, I'm trying,' and Mother's constantly pushing me out of these, and it feels like a very... like then where do I stand and what should it be? And conceptually I get it that it should not be in any end, should be a thing, but to when to even try to really live it, it feels extremely... I wouldn't say it's always. When there is a lot of love for God, when it and all of that comes, and then I'm not... then these things are not there at all. But when you ask, 'Am I living a spiritual life?' for a lot of... in many, many, many moments, majority of the time it is not there. Many times I like when I do the focus prayer that or focus time in any way, this many, many days when I am in it and many days when I'm not in it. So it all feels like... can you say for...

When I really live it, it feels extremely—I wouldn't say it's always when there is a lot of love for God, when all of that comes, and then these things are not there at all. But when you ask, 'Am I living a spiritual life?' for a lot of—in many, many, many moments, majority of the time, it is not there. Many times, like when I do the focused prayer or focused time in any way, there are many, many days when I am in it and many days when I am not in it. So it all feels like—

Can you say for the days that you are in it, what happened in those days?

In those days, I feel a lot of love for God. I feel this is the only place I want to be in and not be involved in anything else. There are no distractions. I wouldn't say the whole day, Father; of course, I can't say all day, not even half a day. But I'm saying that at least some moments in that day, or a majority of the time I do the focused time, it feels—

How much time do you spend on self-diagnosis? Yeah, a lot of it. I feel like a lot of that process is happening, which I call the 'Checker guy.' The Checker guy is the worst nemesis in spirituality because it'll take the words of satsang itself, you see? So all the satsang that you've heard, it will create a spiritual framework out of them and constantly make report cards to you about yourself, quote-unquote, using that framework itself. It's very difficult for teachers to break through the Checker guy because even if I say to you, 'You have an affliction of the Checker guy,' the Checker guy will take that one and say, 'Huh, I have to check on this Checker guy now,' you see? So it takes on this project of checking on the basis of words it hears in satsang, and it finds another way to oppress us in that way.

In hearing your report, it's very beautifully, very articulately put, but I'm sensing that you are spending a lot of time on diagnosis of your condition, which is not a true condition anyway. It's not your reality; it is your play in this Leela. So don't spend too much time in that checking mode. Spend more time, as much time as possible, in that silent, holy place. What is the main tool of practice that you have? Inquiry or prayer?

Prayer.

That's good. So pray and let the prayer lead you to this innocence. You see, if you constantly have the Checker guy operating, then you cannot be innocent. The Checker guy can put on the mask of innocence, but it's constantly doing his job of right, right, wrong, wrong, correct, correct, wrong, wrong, right, wrong. 'You should say this, you should not say this.' So just allow it to—don't bother with its reporting. Don't make conclusions about yourself based on its reporting. Tell me something about yourself which God has told you.

What can you say that God has told me, Father?

That God has told you. So stay there. And if a report card has to come, let it come from the Atma itself. It is God's presence, right? On the spiritual path, your mind's checker mode is more detrimental than beneficial, and it's a serious waste of time. So all those report cards, burn them. Yeah, start fresh, like you're an infant child now. As an infant, God is giving you a mother; she is guiding you. Follow that like it is your only nourishment, and don't go with your mind's this thing. It'll try to add on things; it'll say, 'Like that, like that.' This is what that innocence is. Very, very important.

So those things which the world calls contemplation—but in spiritual contemplation, it is not worldly contemplation. Spiritual contemplation is to be able to stay in that discipleship of the Atma within, in that quiet place where 99.9% of what you are learning you will not be able to put into words. So maybe it is training or conditioning or something, because—psychotherapist?

Yes.

So that can happen. There was a time where most people who were coming to me were from psychotherapy when I started sharing. Some will remember. So you have to be careful of just this. Psychotherapy is good and it helps so many people in so many ways, but on the spiritual path, you have to be a little careful before drawing too many conclusions about yourself. Because who are you talking about? Who could you be talking about? Suppose you were to make a good conclusion that 'I am a very honest person.' Who is that honest person? Where is it?

So the teacher is enough to give us the pointers that we need for whatever person is here. Take the pointers from your teacher and really assimilate them. Don't do addition, subtraction, think about it more, or make report cards to yourself. This can seem like spirituality, but it's not. It's amplifying personhood in the guise of spirituality. So return to full innocence. You have that capacity, I can see. So become like a child, become innocent. Thank you. Then you will find like you have so much time because you're not wasting time on self-diagnosis and all of these. We'll come to Nididhyasana in a minute. Let me hear from you.

Father, I don't feel I've started. To be honest, is that human or is that—no, sorry. Honestly, I'm saying I don't feel like I've started.

Why not? Because that Hindi is fine. You've been in satsang for how long?

Four years.

Four years. So without love for God, why did you come to satsang or stay in satsang for four years? Nobody stays here more than a year—I'm just joking. When you ask, 'Why do I come to satsang?'

I feel like—is it for the fun of it, like the companionship and the—

So something is there that is drawing you in.

I feel like this is the place to be and I'm safe here.

It's a safe space. That's a starting point. Yes, I know I can trust it. That is the very starting point of satsang, where the Satguru and the satsang must be a safe space for us. It's very much that. But that's just the starting point. It should become the refuge where everything draws you into your heart, everything draws you into your Atma. Do you feel like that happens for you?

I don't know. I don't know what is—

You cannot confirm the Atma? Yes. So all of spiritual sadhana, all of spirituality, all of satsang is so this outer teacher—her only job is to hand you into the inner teacher. So when you close your eyes, at least on a few rare days, do you sometimes come to a point where you don't want to leave that and be disturbed by anything in the world?

I come. Why? What is it that pulls you in? I feel rested.

But rested, you could go to sleep. Is it just rest? Exactly. So what makes it feel like home? If it is just a dark, empty place, why will it feel like home? If I send you to the kitchen over there and shut the light and close the door, most probably it's not going to feel like home. So when we close our eyes, it seems to get dark. Then what is it over there which makes it seem like home?

Shanti is there.

But what is the cause of that peace? Absence of thoughts? Suppose you know the story of Krishna Ji, Lord Krishna. He said, 'One of you can have my armies and one of you can have me as the charioteer. I will not fight.' So the Kauravas picked the army because there were so many lakhs of soldiers, and the Pandavas, Arjun especially, picked Lord Krishna. He said, 'You can give them everything; if you are with me, I have nothing to fear.' So if I told you that you can have all of God's gifts—peace, love, bliss, happiness, all the money, all material benefits—but you won't get God, or you can have God without any of His gifts, what would you think?

I'm not sure.

That's what you must contemplate. As in contemplating this question, you will come to a true spirituality. Not that you're not in a true spirituality, but you'll deepen in a true spirituality which is about not the gifts of God or the signs from God, not what He blesses us with, but just Him. Your focus becomes Him, and no matter what else may happen in your life—

I want it to be Him. I really—honest, don't be scared, just speak to me normally—I really want it to be Him. I want to be able to say with integrity, 'I'll choose Him.'

Are you doing your sadhana well? Like in the last two days, I have not been able to, but study, study, study. When I used to sit in focused prayer, it would be very difficult for me to sit for more than 15-20 minutes, but yeah, I am liking it.

Very good. It's fine to like to enjoy your sadhana, that's good. But don't necessarily shy away from that sadhana which feels difficult, because most people when they are introduced to self-inquiry feel like it is the worst possible spiritual path. Who will want to sit and ask, 'Who am I?' you see? What is the fun in that? What will I get? So, but it's a very important practice. So work along with my daughter and she will from the heart keep guiding you in terms of what is the practice. Sometimes practice will be difficult, but I'm happy you're doing the contemplative reading, contemplative prayer in that way. It's good.

So what is the Nididhyasana part of the practice or the contemplation part of the practice? What is your sense of that? So meditation—second, as again, like for you also, innocence is good. If I say to you, like we did this the other day, 'God is here,' how will you reflect on this? Just do it innocently. No filter. Just say whatever comes to you.

Question it?

Yes. Okay, that's good. 'I don't know how to see that this is true. I don't know.' Very good. Then stay with it. You can try. Then I wait. In what way could He be here? How kind He is that He is here for me. Anything. You don't have to worry about right or wrong. Allow it to just come from an innocent place and then dwell on it in that way. It is just so that the object of contemplation, which is God Himself, remains in our focus, you see? Otherwise, we are very quickly distracted.

So there are two methods to do it. One is to just keep repeating. Yeah, some people just memorize the phrase or even the paragraph that they're trying to contemplate and they keep repeating; that is one way to keep the focus. The second is to just innocently dwell on it. The point is not to write an intellectual summary on what is being said. There are no marks for right or wrong. Whatever comes to us in the heart, and don't self-censor yourself too much. Allow it to unfold naturally. Okay?

So that is the Manana. Then Shravana part, you come to a place—so you may say, 'He is so kind, He's so merciful, He's here for me, He always listens to everything I say, I can always count on Him. God is so sweet, He never says no, He only says yes or wait.' All these things may come to us just naturally to say. And then you come to a point where you say that, 'Yes, all this is beautiful and it seems so true about Him, but to really get a sense of His presence, I cannot—I don't have the tools to do it,' you see? So I pray, 'I surrender to You, God, that please give me Your Darshan, give me Your presence. Let me be with You, let You become the center of my life.'

That prayer is the Upasana part or the Sharanam part. Just truly make a heartfelt, innocent prayer to really experience the words of the satsang or the pointer that has been given, and then just allow yourself to remain quiet. And that quietude itself will pull you into the place which is the holy classroom of the Atma itself. See whether you call it the heart temple, the innermost chamber, the center of your being, whatever you say—to just stay over there.

So this is the eating part. We've done all the cooking, but our cooking is the seemingly active part of the process. Then where we hand over everything to Him, surrender to Him, and allow Him to guide us—that is where true inquiry happens, that is where true sadhana happens. So don't just cook and not eat. All the cooking will go away; the cooking doesn't stay fresh for long. Spiritual cooking has to be eaten very fast. Initially, it will seem like, 'Oh, I can stay only 30 seconds, I can stay quiet only one minute.' Then what to do? If you are contemplating that God is here and you're getting very distracted, just repeat that to yourself, 'God is here,' and return back to that. So if you have a thousand moments of silence also in that way, although those thousand—

Sadhana happens, so don't just cook and not eat. All the cooking will go away; the cooking doesn't stay fresh for long. Spiritual cooking has to be eaten very fast. Initially, it will seem like, 'Oh, I can stay only 30 seconds. I can stay quiet only one minute.' Then what to do? If you are contemplating that God is here and you're getting very distracted, just repeat that to yourself: 'God is here' and return back to that. So if you have a thousand moments of silence also in that way, although a thousand distractions come, that itself is also not bad. It will seem strange initially that you're entering the temple, going out, entering the temple, going out. The more you do it, the more you learn to stay within, you see. But if you create a self-limiting belief that 'I can't do it,' then that itself will get in the way. So don't allow your mind to become your inner tutor. That's the same similar guidance to him also: that once you hear it from your teacher, then accept it with full innocence and don't you allow your mind to either make a report card or to add on and say like this, 'You can do it, you can't do it.'

So if you're contemplating 'Who am I?' initially you may have to do like a Neti-Neti, saying, 'I'm not the world that I perceive. I am aware of it; it is not aware of me. I'm not this body that I perceive. I am aware of it; it is not aware of me. I'm not my emotion, I'm not my sensation, I'm not my thoughts, I'm not my memories.' So what is that point at which we cannot say 'I am not'? Try answering this one. We cannot say 'not this' to anymore. Try going along with me. Try the world—it could be a dream, we don't know what it is. I am witnessing it; it is not witnessing me. So I'm not this. Then next?

Then I'm not this body. I can see it, I can observe it.

I can see, okay. Then?

Then I'm not this voice in the head. I can see that also. Then I'm not this sensation. I can observe.

Yes, exactly. Okay. I'm just observing. Who is observing?

I.

Yes, this 'I' is who? It is witnessing everything. Does it have a shape of itself? Any color? Any birthday? How you know it is you?

I know it. It's me only.

But are there two of you?

No.

So if that is you, there is no other one. And whenever the other one seems real—which means that it can seem like there is some distinction still—then you keep surrendering that. Keep praying or doing the inquiry to dissolve that one into God himself, see? So all contemplation should take us to this place where the answers don't seem easy anymore. Just 'It is I,' but who is that? So all contemplation is a Divine mystery. It takes us to a place where there is no mind. Our mind cannot help now. The mind will try telling you very strong stories, 'But, but, but, but,' you see. This is reminding me of the old satsang. I don't know what's happened with this, maybe my brain is going back, regressing or something, but I say everything that starts with 'but, but' is bug-bug. Just leave it aside.

Is it because we may share Brahman with you, but the mind will come and say, 'But, uh, what for dinner?' Something like that. Nothing to do with anything. So don't follow anything that starts with 'but.' So then all of you found one tactic, no? What is it? Not 'but,' therefore what is it? Something they started using instead of 'however,' I think. Instead of 'so,' everybody... 'I'm thinking, I just feel like, I just feel so.' I said I've never met a feeling like that. So don't follow any narrative after the 'but.' Two to four hours every day, you pick the practice. You judge your own intention whether it is to be with God.

Thank you, Father. This question is more from a standpoint of being a parent. When I was, let's say, a young adult and had to work hard for studies or whatever to make a living, and was going through a period where I also felt like maybe I want to be an ascetic or something like that because I was exposed to that from a young age because of the company my parents kept. And then I was reading Swami Vivekananda back in the day, and many a time in his writings he has used phrases like, 'What does a beggar have to renounce? First become something, then renounce the world.' He's there, yeah, he said that.

But did he live up to that? Sorry, did he live up to that standard, Vivekananda? I don't feel like it. I don't know.

Anyway, I'm just giving you the history of what I read. And then my parents never had an objection for me to go becoming an ascetic. I was not under any kind of pressure. But I guess it was my lack of conviction, courage, clarity, whatever you want to call it. So I ended up... I didn't like studies either. I was terrible in my academics until a certain age. But then just sort of sheer need to survive as a middle-class boy, it became very apparent that, 'Oh, if I have to do anything meaningful to make a living, I better get my act together at some level.' Not because I love math, because I love physics—none of that. And I started doing it and became really good at it. And then life went on and, you know, now I'm here.

But now as a parent, my son is in the same place. He's in 10th grade and he's a great kid, positive, full of energy, etc., etc. But he's even one more step removed in the sense that he's seen me, he's seen all my friends, he's heard us all talk, and he's figured out that this drama is pointless, right? And I don't hide that from him, and I don't say anything discouraging either. But I don't allow him the same Kool-Aid that the rest of my friends are pillowing their kids. But at the same time, I feel confused, like, 'Oh, maybe I need to be like those other parents who are very achievement-oriented' and so on and so forth. And part of me honestly is confused, of course. And so the best I'm able to do for him as a parent—because he looks up to me and I can't run away from that; if I could, I would, I would just send him to you or something like that—but I have to fill that role and I have to say something because he looks for that guidance or whatever you want to call it, or role model.

And right now all I'm able to tell him is, 'Hey, wherever you are, whatever you're doing right now, you're a student, and so try to do good in whatever you're doing. And then when the time comes, you figure out what you want to do. If you want to be a monk, you want to do this, you want... I support you in whatever you want to do.' Yeah, but then when 10th board exams are happening, the rubber hits the road.

That's when the rubber hits the road, yeah.

That's when rubber hits the road. And you know, he's doing what he can, but I just feel bad as a parent. Like, why is he going through this madness? The same madness that I went through. He doesn't like it either, you know, and he's good at it, okay. So my core question is from where you started, which was, 'Hey, all pursuits in life are not going to get us anywhere,' right? And I can see that my son is seeing that through seeing all the adults around him being unhappy, miserable. Very few people, like you said, how many people are actually joyful, happy, and so on? And I... yeah, I don't know what to tell the guy.

Yeah, I understand. So speaking from my experience, what happened in Kabir's case is that there was a point where he was evaluating between investment banking—I don't know where that came from—but investment banking, sports management, and maybe DJing or something like that. And I told him that, 'You pick, it's okay. I'm not... you can try to be happy in whatever you do.' Everything, I was just supportive about it. One day in the 10th standard, he decided, 'I'm going to become an investment banker. I really want to become an investment banker.' And I felt like that clarified things for me because all I had to do was keep telling him, 'Okay, now my job as a parent is just to be a compass for you to say: you want to do investment banking, you want to get into a good college in America, the way you're going about it is not going to get you there.' That's just my job to tell you that. I also told him that if you change your mind and you want to do DJing instead or you want to do sports management, then it may be a different trajectory. You may have to work hard there also, but in a different way. 'But you tell me if you change your mind.' He said, 'No, Papa, I want to do that only.' So then I only kept reminding him: direction versus target is different, and my job is just to inform you of that fact. So I don't know if he has any sense of that or direction.

Yeah, no, that's a great point. And the fact that Kabir had a sudden... whichever stage he hit that point where he said, 'I want to be an investment banker.' And I guess the job of a parent at some level is to hold space and be patient until they find whatever calling it is. I had zero calling to do anything when I was young. I grew up in Goa, everything seemed amazing, I didn't feel I needed to do anything. And so then my mom would ask me the same questions, right? And I'm like, 'Okay, I really don't want to be anything.' And I didn't find any problem in that answer either. Then she would say, 'Okay, what is it that you want? You know, what desires do you have?' And then literally the only desire I had at that age, you know, 11th, 12th or whatever, it was like, I loved cars. I don't know why I loved them, I just loved cars. And it's like, 'Okay, so if you want to buy a car...' So it was a very trivial materialistic goal, and honestly, that's the only reason I did what I did is to buy that. I have no very fancy reason why I did what I did.

And I'm so helpless that I ask my son... like, he has no specific goal to be an investment banker or A, B, or C. I ask him, 'You have any desires?' And I see him in day-to-day living. I take him to a toy store, I take him to the US, wherever, clothes—the guy wants nothing, right? Which is nice, amazing at one level. So when I ask him, 'You have any desires?' he has none. And he's peaceful. He's not like some dejected, dull kid; he's very vibrant. The other factor, of course, then is the aptitude for... does he enjoy some subjects more? I mean, but it's not like a calling by any means. He could... he would go to Goa and sit on the beach, same thing, you know? And I'm actually okay with that, I don't have any problem. But I feel I'm doing disservice as a parent. And yeah, I just wanted to share that because I don't know, maybe you'll say something and maybe there's nothing to say.

Yeah, I don't feel like it's a disservice at all. As long as... I've always said this, that if we are communicating with our children, that's the main, main, main thing. If they feel like they can come up to us and talk to us, if we feel like we can go to them and talk to them and we are able to share each other's perspective, that is the main job as a parent. I don't feel like it is our job to define their path. It is our job to tell them that this is what you must be or should be doing. Like in my case, it was not as open as you. It was that typical 'you have to become an engineer,' so I became an engineer. My dad actually had some great expectations from me. He felt like, 'Oh, I got into IIT, you'll also get in.' I said, 'It doesn't work like that.' So but he forced me to write the JEE and all of that stuff, which nothing happened with. But I did engineering because just my dad said I have to do it. So but I don't feel like it is our role to define that for them, right? And it'll come, something will come. It's just the 10th anyways.

But what I do end up doing is I do, I would say, even push him to be good at whatever he does. Now where I'm getting that from, if you really grill me, I have no idea, right? It's some value that has been on us.

That much we can do, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, as long as they don't feel a bit like, in a way, unsafe if they've not done well at something, then it's fine. Yeah, you have to encourage. Like I'm constantly encouraging all of you to deepen in your love for God. We have to provide that push. All right, thank you. Anyone? I've got a lot of signals to end and as promised I'll be strict with myself so that this body can rest, but anyone... there's a chance that...

We have no idea, right? It's some value that is on us; that much we can do. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, as long as they don't feel a bit like, in a way, unsafe if they've not done well at something, then it's fine. Yeah, you have to encourage. Like I'm constantly encouraging all of you to deepen in your love for God. We have to provide that push.

All right, thank you. Anyone? I've got a lot of signals to end and, as promised, I'll be strict with myself so that this body can rest. But anyone, there's a chance that we may not be meeting soon again and they have to want to say something? Any of you? You go back or you are here in Bangalore after tomorrow? So maybe something you want to share?

Maybe, Father, actually thanks to you. Thanks, thanks, thanks.

All my love, all my blessings. We can sing the bhajan.

I was just saying there's no satsang on Wednesday and Friday. I'm traveling to Pune, God willing, based on how my body is on Wednesday morning, but most likely no satsang on Wednesday and Friday. Thank you. Love you all. Just quickly read the chat for...