The Choice Is Left to Us: God or Maya - 10th December 2025

So are we completely clear on this that our job is to do our focus prayer and to stay in God as much as we can throughout the day without judging whether we are making progress or not? Because what happens in that sanctum sanctorum is not apparent to our senses, is not apparent to our mind or intellect. We cannot know through these instruments until we get used to seeing through the right instrument. It can seem like nothing is changing, nothing is happening. It's quite a wager we are asked to take because what is being asked is our whole life. We've been asked for our whole lives and no progress reporting is possible really. Yeah. No metrics can be tracked in this process.

Still, in this, back is not well. So if our life is like that flower bud and the point of our life is that it is to bloom in the non-perceptual light of the Atma within, then we have to take that call that my life is primarily for this and the rest of it can go on in the outer as it is meant to, with no finality inside. Not getting trapped in any idea of freedom or enlightenment. All offered to God's will. Can we ever say that I know who I am now? Should be able to. No. Then what's the point? What is Atma Gyan? Being open is Atma Gyan. So we can't say that I know who I am. We can at best say I know where not to go and what instrument to rely on where, if it is God's grace, then that revelation may be revealed to me in that moment. Otherwise, all I have is the negation of what I am not. Yes. With me? Complicated.

So if you go left, you'll go to the terrace. If you go right, you'll go to the exit. Clear? So if you go to the head, what will you get? Suffering. Yes. Suffering because of believing thoughts which makes what seem to be true? Maya seem to be true because the 'me' seems to be true. You see, so believing thoughts leads to identity, leads to suffering. Yes. So can you suffer without identity? You're nobody, suffer? You can be in pain, like you can experience pain without identity, but you can't suffer because suffering needs the projection into some future time or some projection from a previous time which happened to an apparent 'me' which provides the continuity of an individual who is in the midst of this seeming life.

Again, complicated in this moment. Can you suppose you can feel pain? You can feel pain but you can't suffer. Suffering comes because we amplify and project the pain into the past and future. And the carrier of that apparent past and future is an individual who doesn't actually exist. And but this revelation is not apparent to our senses or to our mind. You see, so if you go to your mind, it is the seller of identity alone. Even in the guise of spirituality, it will tell some specialness about you or some unworthiness about you. That 'you' is fundamentally untrue. So if that doesn't work, then what does? Going to the head doesn't work. Then what does? Now that I framed it that way, everyone knows the answer. But what is that heart? How do we go there? What is the heart? Only ten years we've been talking. Okay. What makes it special? Am I that scary?

God lives there.

Exactly. God lives there. Huh? There's no past or future, or all past and future is contained in that moment there. It's the eternal now as they call it. But let's focus on the first thing, which is that God lives there. How do we know? You know this. You hear it at least from one foolish man that I know. Okay. In which what is the label that we have given in the world to that aspect of God which lives there? Atma, Holy Spirit. Yes. And this is not just one foolish man. Then you have to include all the foolish men who said that this is true, and that is thousands of them. You see, and in the world we call them sages, with barely listening to what they have to say but still call them sages out of reverence.

So the Atma lives there, the spirit lives there, and that's why this pathway is called spirituality. Now there is one way of knowing this which is like we know that it is gravity which keeps us to the ground. See, we've never seen gravity and apparently it's not even a force. But we know it because credible people have told us. Is it what we are meant to do with the knowledge about the fact that God lives in our heart as well? That now Ananta has told us, or this sage has told us, that God lives in your heart so you don't have to worry. So hold it in the intellect like we hold the fact that we can't fall off the earth because there's gravity. So we are reassured. You see, is that what spirituality is? Maybe a minor part of it. But what is the main crux of it exactly?

So we have been told that Atma Darshan is possible, which means a meeting, a revelation of His light within—not just His light, but Himself within is possible. Actually, no difference between Himself and His light. You see, so we must not treat Atma like gravity, God's presence like electricity or magnetism or gravity or any of these forces. Then what are we meant to do? Now Jyoti Ma made a big promise to us saying that you can meet Him, actually meet Him or Her in whichever way you like to resonate with God's presence. So what is the pathway to meet Her? We can never meet gravity or nature or electricity or any of these forces. But we can meet God Himself in the form of the Atma within. What is the pathway? How many pathways are there?

There are many pathways but they end up at the same ghat. What is the term for ghat? Same shore of the river, same bank of the river. So is this part clear to you? Yeah. That we may come through Vichara, through Gyan, through Advaita Vedanta, through Dvaita Vedanta, through Christianity, through Islam, through Sikhism, through Judaism, through all of these paths. You see, but whichever road you took, whichever direction you came from, you cannot escape the doorway to His temple. You see, you have to end up there only. And if some of you have been following the WhatsApp group, I haven't posted much, but basically the intention has been to show us that in every tradition, every religion, every culture, it brings us to actually the same point. And after that, we have to rely on His grace. There is no priority in this line. No matter how much we like to believe that our way is the best, this dashed line is the same for everyone. Okay, this is clear now.

So which path should you pick? Whichever picks you is a good way to put it, or whichever appeals to you in your heart, resonates with you at least for that moment, for that time, for those days, weeks, months, years. Everybody has a different temperament. So the pathways can vary. So whatever that path, how does that path bring us to that bank of the river? Can we take an example? It's not a real path to God unless it does that. That's clear. Okay, let's go one by one. Who can take some example of any path and what is the pathway? There are thousands and we've discussed a few. Please take the mic.

For me it's surrender, because in a way God makes you realize that thing. So you go back to reality. So whether you are getting a good feeling from this outer world or bad feeling, whatever feeling, once this is how I'm practicing, that I'm surrendering those feelings to God. So there comes a moment whether it doesn't matter whether this outer world is affecting us in whatever way negatively or positively, you still want to be with God. So ultimately it makes me realize I am nothing. The only reality is God.

Okay. So let's start with surrender. Huh? So with the Madhurya, how does surrender bring us to that point that we are talking about?

Father, what I understand from surrender is that I give up all agency that I have, where I feel I can do something. So I give all of that up. Then there's nothing but God.

That was slowly. So I gave up on my individual will, my agency, I leave it to God. No? So then what happens when I carry that intention? Then what happens? What do I observe?

That there's no doing. I don't have to do anything.

Yes. Very good. So I don't have to do anything. So in that not having to do, does that change of instrument happen? Yes, Father, then I don't have to think of what to do because most of our oppression is about what to do next, you see, or what did I do, or what did another do to me, or not do. So once all this notion of 'doer' is dropped, then what are we left with? Suppose there was no doer. Guilt and pride gone. Decision making, choice making gone. Resentment, anger, grievances gone. Just 'be' remains.

Then I'm empty of thought.

You're just not bothered. It can come. But you are like Kabir Ji said—and some of you may not like it, it may sound very strong—but he said that I am now Ram's dog. He's tied me to a leash. He takes me where he wants. I go wherever he calls me. So the handing over the reins of our lives, which is merely symbolic because our reins have always been with him only. You see, but ignorance, avidya, is the idea, the false idea of holding control over our lives.

I'm empty of thought. You're just not bothered. It can come. But you are like Kabir Ji said—and some of you may not like it, it may sound very strong—but he said that 'I am now Ram's dog. He's tied me to a leash. He takes me where he wants. I go wherever he calls me.' So the handing over the reins of our lives, which is merely symbolic because our reins have always been with him only. You see, but ignorance, avidya, is the idea—the false idea—of holding control over our lives. Then we surrender that and we leave our life up to him, which it already has been. So it's not a big sacrifice. It sounds like it is, yeah. But does it bring us to that point when I give up on doership? Yes. Remember that the ego is a three-legged table. There's duality, desire, and doership. Now, when you pull at one leg, will the other two also get pulled or no? So, you chop off one of these legs, the table is bound to fall. It won't last. So if doership goes, then with it desire and duality also go. That's why at one time he called it the 3D ego. It's not even 1D, but it seems like 3D. So chop off the doership. Hence, live in God's will. That is the pathway. Can you all see that it brings us to that bank of the river that we spoke about? Because you don't have to decide anything. You don't have to judge anyone. Nobody did anything to you. You didn't do anything to anyone. Everything happened by God's will alone. It's a bit more nuanced than that, and we'll come to the where in a moment. So this path is clear. The path of surrender is clear. Okay. Come on, Manu, next part.

I'm not getting stressed. How does it bring us to that point? Because like when you're praying, you actually slow down your thoughts and you start—

What do you mean by praying?

Maybe for me it might be just like calling out Ram.

Yeah, the chanting. Let's say chanting is the part that you're talking about. So when you chant, what happens?

It's been longer than I've chanted for.

Long time. Okay, let's try that. Have you experienced it with chanting or you want to talk about something else?

I was thinking meditation.

Okay. So we'll come to meditation in a moment. Now we talked about the 3D ego: duality, desire, doership. How do we pick up these things? Through the mind. Now the mind operates through—the unit of mind is thought. Correct? There is no mind without thought. You see, actually the unit of mind is belief in thought. So even if thoughts are coming and going and you're not buying, that's also called the no-mind. Clear? So when you are chanting, you are breaking down that whole mind operation system through desire, duality, and doership by replacing it with the holiest replacement possible, which is God's name. You see, so you replace it with God's name. You do the japa or you do the prayer, the chanting. Just with the single word is also good. And we break down the system of the mind's operation, you see. And we allow ourselves to become empty of these 3Ds: the duality, desire, and doership. And empty of these, we fall into the same place. Then we empty here. We just gravitate towards our heart naturally. And that is where the true revelation, true insight, true knowledge, true beauty, true love—all of that truly emerges from there. That is why it is a very beautiful pathway. Beautiful because it's simple. What do you have to do? Ram, fast, slow, whatever, this Ram. So because it seems that simple, although the mind fights back in a very strong way, at least in terms of what has to be done, it seems very straightforward. So people call it the simplest path. Although in execution it may not be. I feel like all of them have the same level of difficulty because Maya and the mind come up with the obstacles on every pathway. So, clear to everyone? Leave our head because our head is now filled with the only auspicious notion there is, which is God's name. You see, or the most auspicious notion there is, which is God's name. That is the only thought you can think safely is God's name. Yes. After we do this for a while, then we come into periods of silence.

The same open and empty meditation. Um, so through meditation you look into the nature of the self. Um, so like a self-inquiry and seeing who's really there and then you realize that it's God. I don't know who's really there, really here. Yes. And then you meet or you reach the—

Okay. So how would you do self-inquiry?

Um, it's that, it's the neti neti. You can do it like that by saying 'I'm not this.' When you reach a place where you're really nothing but you are everything.

I don't know.

So I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this. Then how do you reach that place?

Because you're then you're like, 'So what am I really?'

I'm still here even though I'm nothing.

Yeah. So there must be something. So do we at the end come to an intellectual conclusion about the fact of our beingness? Because even to notice that there are thoughts or there are no thoughts, I must exist. You see, so I would call that an intellectual conclusion, or at least that's the way he wrote it. Would you say that we come to that point and say, 'Now there's nothing. I'm not the senses. I'm not the emotion. I'm not the thoughts. I'm none of this. But I'm still here. Therefore, I must be everything and nothing.' Or is there something else to it?

I think there's something else also.

So what is valuable is what the neti neti does for us is to bring us to that place, and then Knowledge with a capital K comes in the form of heart insight, intuitive insight, that 'I am that I am' or 'I am aware even of the presence of being.' So this does not involve the intellect, this part, at all. So we can negatively conclude or positively conclude all the negations, you see, that 'I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not this, I'm not that.' But the finality cannot be concluded. Is it? And also if you say 'I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this' and I remove all distinctions, I come to the same point of open and empty. So if you go neti neti neti, you see, not this, not this, not this, we come to the same point. If you say 'I am this' or 'I love this, everything is one with me, everything is one with me,' we come to the same point. If you make no distinction on the outside, we come to that what I call the open and empty. And if we say 'not, not,' we come to that same empty. You see, now the neti neti process is the cooking process. The waiting in that stillness is the eating process. You see, and in most of the eating process we can't track. That's how we started satsang today, that we can't really tell because of our senses or mind what is transforming in us. You see, so we have to rely on a deeper heart knowledge that what is happening is so auspicious. So neti neti is a beautiful way to get to the same point. You see, recognizing the point where we're not holding on to any mental conceptualization and we are just in the cave of the heart without any to-do, anywhere to go. When the mind distracts us, we say, 'This is changing. I am not that.' And we stay over there.

But they take us through the inquiry because we can—it all of it brings us to the same point, but the seeming steps are a little different in inquiry and neti neti. Mostly the thoughts come, you know, and I question to whom are they coming, who is this 'I'? Then I stay there. I think this is the process that I usually—

So we see the same brings us to the same point. The steps are different but it brings us to the same point of being empty within, not grasping at any conceptual idea. When the conceptual idea comes, we say, 'Who is witnessing this thought?' or whichever way you're saying it. As long as it brings you to that point, it is fine. So ask yourself sincerely who you are. The mind will gasp around for an answer. It may present an answer, then say, 'What witnesses or who witnesses that thought?'

In that stillness there is some—I feel some kind of a wobbliness. I stay there for a moment in that stillness.

There's a kind of a wobbliness. Or maybe something is too quick to again, you know, hold on to some thought. So it's very common. Everyone who remains in that place, the Maya will not just say, 'Okay, let them be, what a good sadhaka,' and leave them alone. They'll create disturbance either in the world or inside. There may be some restlessness or all kinds of obstacles will come, and then the instruction is just to notice that and say, 'Who witnesses that? Is the witness wobbly? Is the witnessing wobbly?' So wobbliness indicates some phenomena. It cannot wobble without phenomena. So is the witness of the wobbliness phenomenal wobbling as well? So like a question like that can then bring us to that place of acceptance or allowance of that wobbliness to happen and for us to remain as much as possible there.

Father, these days I'm also doing the chanting, so it's a combination of both chanting and inquiry. The thing is, I think in one of the satsangs you had mentioned that if we keep chanting and we don't sit in silence, then there is no point in also chanting. So I think that is something which I wanted to also ask you because then—

Let me make it clear. We're not doing anything. Just chanting is a million times better than not doing anything at all. But if you are chanting, then why not take a moment to take a dip in the Ganga also? He says so we've come to the shore, which is already very auspicious. So it shouldn't sound to anyone that I'm putting it down. I'm saying that compared to the regular life that most of us lead, if we chant for even a few minutes every day, it's a million times better. Yeah. But I'm saying that now that you know what is really going on, you see, then use the momentum that the chanting provides to you. You see, it provides a spiritual momentum for us to go into the Atma's orbit. You see, so then don't launch and then come and lie down. That's what probably—just at least a minute, two minutes maybe. And what this part actually happens also very naturally, you see. But why I keep pointing this part out is because the mind will say, 'Okay, let's finish, finish, done,' you know, like this, like 'I have important work to do, let's leave.' You see, so to remember that there is great depth to this. You see, this is the true eating of the food. That is what the reminder is for. So if you've done a few malas or you've just chanted for a few minutes, mostly we'll find naturally we are inclined to sit quiet for a few minutes. But even if the mind has convinced us that we are not, then we just try to stay empty for a while. Okay.

Throughout the day I try to, you know, like the endeavor is actually to try to chant nearly all the time, you know. Because I feel that is what—there are other practices for which you have to literally sit sometimes, you know, but I feel chanting is something which can be actually done at any time and the attempt is always to constantly do that. But I feel that there are times when the mind can be thinking about, you know, like any number of things, but the thing is the chanting happens. But does that have any kind of a benefit like—

Of course. That's why I clarified that. There's one—those with great devotion have said that if with sincerity we take God's name once, you see, we are through this cycle of transmigration. So there's great power in it. But I'm saying that enjoy the food that you've cooked also. Think that you give a chance for God to respond to your call. These are crude words, like every word is crude compared to what is the heart process. So but you have to put it in some construct. So then we'll be able to get the instruction. So we have chanted 'Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna,' then maybe Krishna wants to reveal something to us, maybe he wants to spend some time with us his way. So let's say—and I may take back these words—but let's say for now it is coming to say that the highest expression of our will may be to remember his name. But then it gives us an opportunity for him to express his will upon us as well, and for that we have to be silent. And two seconds, this one.

So then we'll be able to get the instruction. So we have chanted Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna; then maybe Krishna wants to reveal something to us. Maybe he wants to spend some time with us his way. So let's say—and I may take back these words—but let's say for now it is coming to say that the highest expression of our will may be to remember his name. But then it gives us an opportunity for him to express his will upon us as well, and for that we have to be silent. And two seconds, this one.

So just like there's a huge difference between not remembering God at all and taking God's name throughout the day, then you'll see there's a huge difference when you include the eating part into your practice as well.

So mechanical chanting can also like it can keep going also at the same time because I sometimes feel that it's a very mechanical process, what I feel like that.

Mechanical can lead to chanting with bhav; chanting with bhav can lead to emptiness.

Being with Father, like you said, sometimes it's so difficult to even gauge, you know, where we are because again it's not perceptible to our senses. And the minds, like you said, we can't even gauge the progress, you know, so that way we are again at the mercy of God actually, like the faith, yeah, like you said.

That's very good because if it was linear like it is many times in the world, you see, then we would quickly become proud: 'Oh, today I did this and then this happened' and—

It was like that actually for me. I mean honestly I feel that from the time I started chanting, I realized the importance of prayer and chanting because prior to that I never really gave that much of a focus.

Many of us were falling into that trap that the mind had convinced us that we are just empty.

Yeah.

We just naturally empty or 'now I know who I am.' This kind of thing. And that's why by God's grace we become more integrative in our approach because those who are naturally empty all of the time, if you tell them just chant God's name for one whole day without interruption, they should be easily able to do it. Exactly. If they're empty all the time, then to be anchored in God's name is much easier, you see. But the delusion of our constant emptiness got broken in the project of taking God's name. That's very auspicious because ultimately there's no outer reward for this.

That was the—and this is how Maya plays because there was all this was happening and um there were periods where you had to be away from here and then you have to come. So all that together adds to that, you know, Maya pleasing, 'Oh, a lot has changed, it is different.' And then my illness came. So all these things happened at the same time and may all this work so like an opportunity like today where we can see how it is all ultimately leading us to that personless, maskless meeting with the light of the Atma within.

You see, no matter what the path is, if it claims to bypass that step, then it is not a spiritual path at all. It is mostly some mental meaning-making or sense-making conceptually. So there you go.

Over now realize that it's not at all. It's like an uphill task. It's like not even in our hands. Come to that realization. It's very by your grace.

Kabir Ji himself has said that she is the greatest con artist. So we should never underestimate. Pretty good to admit every day in my quiet time so much of my arrogance is revealed to me. It's very good to confess. Don't ever worry, any of you, about sharing things about pride and arrogance and things because I have no capacity to judge you. I still see so much pride here. So one who has the illness themselves has no capacity to judge another.

Father, you know, we covered the paths of devotion, two different types of self-inquiry, all leading to the same ghat like you. Um, but at the same time it seems like while staying there and being there is what you, what we are calling as the Maha brings us back. Um, even though we have glimpsed the ghat with whatever method or approach, but at the same time isn't it true that it's right under our nose?

Yes.

It's not complex at all. So only complexity is staying there perhaps because of conditioning and identification.

That is simple.

Yeah.

But the mind tempts us with complexity.

Yeah. So to your example of Shabri, I mean until one came into this path everything seemed like super complex. Yeah. Like I grew up in a fairly devout religious household that had all kinds of books available for us on the bookshelf from all faiths, all paths that we discuss today. But it's like no book bothered to just break it down like you did and you do for all of us, and all the sages here on the walls of this room do that. I'm just bewildered like even if you go to the Upanishads and go and read again—actually I'm studying Ashtavakra Gita like in a little more systematic way now through an acharya who's not like a sage or he doesn't claim to be one, but he's like, you know, technically accurate in terms of that. But even I'm going through Ashtavakra Gita and it's because I've been here and I've tasted that ghat, every phrase is like gives goosebumps. But if I were to flash back to six years ago and I read Ashtavakra, I wouldn't know. It would sound beautiful, but even he doesn't bother to take anything step by step. So what is this mystery like? Why is it been made out? I mean the Buddhists have their own stuff. It's beautiful, Dhammapada, this that, Buddha's teachings, but he also doesn't break it down. So this, it's truly bewildering to me. Why is it so complex? Like the path of the Buddhist is like the path to Arhat is first this stage, then this stage, then this stage, and people are spending years in it without having glimpsed the ghat. Um, yeah, see me—

That's a tough one. That's a tough one. Many times it also happens, and maybe we can go back to some of the scriptures and see, but it also happens that as we reread with fresh eyes we notice that this is what they're talking about. So if you look at Advaita Sadhana for example, they've talked about the same thing. Shravana, Manana, Nididhyasana is the same, or if you look at like Chioina, it's the same pathway.

So um but I'm happy that God's grace has given us the opportunity to spell it out in such detail and such an inclusive way, and that is mostly because of the modern world and the fact that everything is accessible to us now. So for the Buddhist—which is actually very difficult to say because there are thousands of varieties of Buddhists just like there are thousands of varieties of every other religion—but so it's very difficult to codify what the path is. But we have the privilege of the modern world where everything is so easily accessible to us. So we can draw the comparison so easily and say, 'Doesn't it, isn't it all bringing us to the same point whether it is spelt out in the same way or not?' And also know that we've been at this for years together, and initially when the same thing was shared it may not have been that easily processed. Like it is heard, but is it really heard? Like it's heard only, and that's why there's so much reinforcement every day. And I'm glad that all of us are maturing together in this understanding that we come to that same holy place of godly insight. It is out of the world.

Just one more follow up on that, Father. So for example the acharya who's teaching Ashtavakra—and I might have heard you also say this—he says it's like it's a dangerous scripture that is not taught to everybody. Dangerous in the sense that if the receiver is not ready it can be misperceived and so on. So it's almost like it's not a secret but it's not freely distributed. Then you look at the Tibetans, they have the tradition of Dzogchen which is also they don't teach it to everybody because they say the worst outcome of teaching somebody that of beingness is they may say 'so what' and then the whole magic is gone. And you mentioned something like this before. Is that, does that ring true that these things should not be generally shared?

It's tricky. You can look at the byproducts of the almost pervasive spread of Advaita Vedanta for example where unfortunately I have to say that many are claiming that they are the Self without any real insight. Now in the spiritual path it is detrimental for them to come to the claim before the insight because the claim will block the insight. You see, I will not inquire if I think that I already know, you see. So many unfortunately, especially in the West, have become in this mode that they know, they have all the answers now, and that is because of the availability of knowledge and the availability of teachers like myself who very openly share everything. And that's why over the last few years we've tried to make it a little more nuanced, a little more hard then, and clear about how this knowledge is to be found.

So I would feel like somebody who starts a spiritual path and then hears about the fact that there's a very direct path, and then they end up believing that the very direct path is that I just conclude to myself that I am the Atma or I am the highest or I am the Nirguna Brahman, is going to be a big block on their spiritual path. And we come across many who feel like they have so deeply concluded that they don't need to hear from anyone anymore. You see, so that is detrimental and that is why—so the very meaning of Upanishad is to sit close and hear—it has to be shared like almost in secret to the one who is now the mature disciple.

Now why I said it's tricky is because there are two schools of thought about this. So one is the—Swami Chinmayananda like started this whole thing of sharing everything openly, all the Upanishads, all the Bhagavad Gita, everything. And apparently his master Swami Tapovan cautioned him and said, 'You're not supposed to do that.' And he said that, 'No, don't worry because those who are not meant to hear it go to sleep in my class anyway,' you see. So he was saying that God's grace only takes care of all of these things and we should not micromanage who hears it and who doesn't hear it. You see, but I would feel like there's something in both perspectives.

You see, there was also a story of maybe Tukaram Ji or Namdev Ji where some pundit told him that you're not supposed to share all this like this, this is supposed to be in secret because what will happen is that you will go to hell and everyone else who hears it will go to heaven. That was one perspective in which—so he said, 'That sounds like a good deal.' So he ran into the terrace top or the whatever terrace they used to have at that point and started shouting to all the villagers that 'You are That, You are That,' and 'You must hear it because you will go to heaven and I will for that, all of you going to heaven, I will be the only one going to hell. It's very worth it.'

So this is a very old conundrum which is really not possible to decipher in the intellect. You just have to try as much as possible to serve God and to feel how it is coming from the heart and to just trust that. And I would say that for this Sangha I've seen how much all of you online and here in the room have grown in the last few years. So I would—I'm very grateful to God that we moved in this way. Let's go to someone. Somebody had a question.

So what he was saying on just to add on that thing, I mean also depends how disciples are responding to master's teaching and many other things. For example, there was one saint in our Gujarat, Bajrang Das Bapa. He will do all kind of just wear bundi and give all kind of things to people who were come, very village kind of people living in extreme poverty. But when he saw that, you know, people are just coming for chamatkar like this kind of thing, then he stopped doing that all this. So how people are responding, are they progressing because of it or going down, so that's true.

He was responding to the Master's teaching and many other things. For example, there was one saint in our Gujarat, Bajangas Baba. He would do all kinds of things, just wear a bundi and give all kinds of things to people who would come—very village kind of people living in extreme poverty. But when he saw that, you know, people are just coming for chamatkar, like this kind of thing, then he stopped doing all that. So how people are responding—are they progressing because of it or going down? That's true. I majorly do chanting, Father, but I don't know which category it will fall into, but you've been saying now, doing that...

Beautiful, beautiful. So what happens when you remember that God is? What happened? Beautiful. So we started with surrender. We went to chanting. We went to self-inquiry. But also, just like Maharaj's teacher, Swami Siddharameshwar Ji, directed him to stay with the sense 'I am.' You see, that's the only practice that was needed. So what happened in that is just coming to the God directly.

Now, a variant of that is what I have been sharing: that if you just remembered that you're the God—the aspect of God that you resonate with the most—if you say Ram Ji is here with me, then will you waste a lot of time in needless thinking? You won't do it. He's there with me. He's here. He's here in front of you. You see, your posture will change. If it is from faith, then your posture will change from grasping to being receptive, from wanting things my way to being willing to follow God's will.

So Maya is a forgetting of God's reality. Well, not the very appearance of Maya itself, but when Maya is taken to be real, you see, then God becomes conceptual. So how does God live within Maya? Conceptually. You know, it's very airy-fairy. But as we let go of our mind, as we let go of 'may ayah' which is Maya, as Anandamayi Ma said, then God is no longer conceptual. God becomes the living reality, and the play of light and sound in this realm of time and space, that becomes conceptual. That becomes... you're not bothered about anything when your Lord is with you.

You see, so that remembrance leads to the insight of that reality, and the insight comes from the same place. So Atma Darshan and Atma Gyan cannot be avoided whether you're a bhakta or a jnani. For this, what is very important is that we must undo what we've done in the last few hundred years, which is God has been made into a force field. We also call it the universal field of consciousness. All these kind of things, I have also done all this. But in that, we take out the bhava from it, the ability to make friends with God, because you will not make friends with gravity or magnetism, you see.

And the friends, He said, 'Make any kind of friend with Me. Make Me your beloved.' So some of the greatest sages made Him the beloved. He said, 'Make Me your sakha.' So some, like Sudama Ji, made Him the best friend. Arjun made Him the best friend. Then, 'Make Me your teacher or master.' Then so many started including God's name, and then thus like the servant of the Lord. So how beautiful is it that there is no correct way? Whichever appeals or resonates with us most in our heart, whichever way we love Him the most, we can love Him.

So in vatsalya, we can take Him to appear as a child also. There are great stories of sages who took God, especially Lord Krishna, to be their child. Who is the one? Who is the one who had that? She was talking to the neighbor... no, Janabai. Janabai, she has beautiful stories. So she took Lord Krishna to be her child. So she would live as if she is the mother of Krishna. So one day she was talking to the neighbor and Krishna was telling her, 'Ma, Ma, talk to me, talk to him.' You know, I want to... basically like children wanting the mother's attention. So He was doing that, so she got irritated with Him and said that, 'You are the Lord of the universe, you are saying you need me? You know I'm busy right now.' So she sort of shrugged Him off.

A minute later, she felt like she did something wrong. So she turned towards Krishna and she couldn't see the baby anymore. She could see only the Virat-rupa. So she said, 'No, no, come back. You're my baby.' He said, 'No, you love me like I'm your baby. I came as your baby. Now you reminded me I'm the Lord of the universe. Now you meet me this way.' You see? So how beautiful is it that He realizes how limited we are, but He doesn't allow that to become a constraint in our ability to love Him.

You see, so and in that love, we come to that same point where we become empty of the 'me' and then our heart transforms. Antahkarana transforms from antahkarana to Atma. Our soul transforms into the spirit itself. And that same 'empty of me' happens in our self-inquiry in the jnana path as well. So all these distinctions are at a very surface level. The place is the holy temple of the Atma within where we can remain inward-facing, antarmukhi sada sukhi.

But whatever path, don't waste your life on Maya. Sahajo Bai said, 'Oh mind, you wasted this entire life in this futility.' Is she telling the mind or is she telling us? She's telling us who are believing the mind to offer reality, taking the narrative of the non-existent one to be the primary one, you see. So in bhakti, it's very beautiful; then we become the side character. To live as a side character, to live as the best friend of God or the beloved of God or the mother of God where God is primary—it is with that.

Or in self-inquiry, when you ask 'Who am I really?' to live in the recognition that that identity, that Ananta, is nobody, is nothing, and yet there is the holy light of the Atma here, and I am aware even of that light. This recognition of oneness is called self-realization on the jnana path and is called merging into the Divine on the bhakti path. But the prerequisite is to be as empty as possible of ourselves, our false selves.

You see, now the thing is that all of us have understood this because most of us have been here for a long time, you see, and many of you can probably write a book on it now. But your lives have to become that book, because an intellectual understanding is either worthless or at best the first step. It has to be applied moment to moment. It has to become a lived reality. Let nothing shake you from God. I see all of you every day get shaken by something. So I'm not meaning to put all of it down. I'm just saying that just notice these things. Can you really afford to waste today on some stupid topic? Sahajo Bai has made it very clear that unless the topic is God Himself and serves as a remembrance of God, then otherwise these vishaya topics are visha, which is poison. So beautifully all these sages are able to say it, like Ma saying 'Maya is my' and Bai saying his life will go like this day by day. Every day Maya will give you a choice.

You can waste your day on that or you can be strong in words. Like one, just before sleeping, there's this very strong fear that comes, it just engulfs me completely, you know? And I'm not sure whether it's coming from the mind or whether it's the actual existential fear because I feel it's more to do with aging, you know? Like coming to an age where, of course, I mean it's not something that, you know, I am fearing that, but there's this kind of an urgency, you know, that you're wasting your time and there's not much time left, you know.

But what is the wasting your time on what?

Wasting my time on, um, the... on Maya, you know? Like on things of the world. And the sole reason for which I'm here is to be in service of God, and if I'm not doing that any moment, that is a moment wasted.

Yes.

So, what's critical to understand there is whether the punch as a result of that messaging takes you further away from God or brings you as a... serves as a reminder to come to God's presence.

But it depends. There could be times where it brings me to the heart. But there are times when I can literally feel the physiological symptoms in the body, like the heartbeat racing, you know? Like and that kind of a fear, and I don't know what it is, Father, really. But I've been reflecting and wanted to share because this has been there from the last... and from the time this year since I've hit a particular age, you know? So I don't know, is it that...

It's become 85 or something?

But I've noticed that, I don't know, maybe is it in the number? I mean, psychologically that number is causing that worry or I don't know.

See, I don't want to be conclusive either way because the mind hears it both ways. So in one way, it's good that we remind ourselves that time is running out. But if it is the real thing that you see... like I often remind myself that everything being shared in satsang is for me first. I have to follow that more and more. So this point comes to me also: is my day now, does it belong to God or has it been handed over to Maya? So but I remember also Bai saying that if you've fallen down, get up. Don't think about, 'Oh, how did I fall? Why do I keep falling? When will I get up?' Just...

Maybe this thing of, um, that this is not something that I can do because that's that pressure also, that it's not in my hands. Ultimately it's grace, you know, God that takes us there, so...

My inability to... so we said, I said we'll talk about this aspect. We'll talk about this aspect. Everything that happens to us in the world happens only through God's will. So like the Book of Job is a very good example where even the devil had to take God's permission before troubling Job. So Maya cannot hurt us without it being God's will. Yet—and the intellect won't like this because it's not linear—yet God doesn't want our love for Him to be forced.

You see, so if He had made us in a very forced, mechanical way that after the age of whatever, 35, then you will love Me because that is My will, you see, then that is like... I've taken this example, I don't know if you were here, but when my son was in America, if I had enforced on him that you have to call every night at 9:00, then it doesn't give me an indication of his love. But if he calls me and says that, 'I had a very busy day but I felt like talking to you,' you see, then that warms my heart that my son loves me.

So this is the beauty of it: that although everything happens to us in God's will, and everything happens through us to others also only by God's will, yet the choice to love God or to love Maya has been left to us. Now what is the extent of what we can do? To put a long story short, we talked about all these pathways. So to turn inwards towards Him is the extent of our expression of love towards God—that I clearly let go of Maya, let go of grasping, and I turn towards God. That is the extent of what we can do.

The recollection of our faculties becoming one-pointed towards Him, we cannot do; we can only offer them. You see, for the pull to come, you see, for that to happen is only His doing. You see, for us to dissolve into samadhi, only He can do. For us to leave all notion of time and space and all experience of phenomenal appearance, only He can do. So our part is a simple part. If you look at it, we have no way as to how to do it. No. In fact, the minute you start thinking 'I can go into samadhi,' samadhi stops. In that pride, gone. You see, because that is very bad for our spiritual health, to become proud about these things. To take credit for that which only God can do is the worst form of spiritual pride. So thankfully, by God's grace, thankfully it stops.

But that expression of love by turning towards Him away from Maya, we have to do. So you're getting that this part we have to do. We have to do. All the Advaitins can fight with me. Yeah. And I'm happy to debate that topic, but never get into this thing that the turning also He will do. Yeah. One day we can talk about that, like much later. But for now, know that this part—picking up the phone and calling Dad—we have to do. What He does after that is up to Him. What we feel after that is up to Him. We have to make the phone call. You have to cut the line with Maya. Make the phone call to Dad. That part we have to do.

We have to do all the Advaitins can fight with me. Yeah. And I'm happy to debate that topic, but never get into this thing that the turning also He will do. Yeah. One day we can talk about that like much later. But for now, know that this part—picking up the phone and calling Dad—we have to do. What He does after that is up to him. What we feel after that is up to him. We have to make the phone call. You have to cut the line with Maya. Make the phone call to Dad. That part we have to do.

So as long as we are doing, then the transformation, like I said, of the Antahkarana into the Atma, that we cannot make out except by the outpouring of love, outpouring of the virtues growing, our anger reducing, our humility growing. We notice things that we have to change about ourselves; otherwise, in pride, we never notice. We think we are perfect. Everybody is the hero of this movie. You see, in this room, each of you are better than everyone else in your mind. Right? Yeah. So, so these illogical fallacies get broken down when we spend time with God.

We realize—that's why I used to be very confused why the sages like Kabir Ji have feelings of unworthiness. Yeah. Why would he say there is no greater sinner than we? Why would he say that? You see, because when we spend time with God, we see our puniness and we want nothing more than to merge with Him. But also with regards to the world, we have no interest or ability left to judge a brother or sister. You see, you see, what will you tell a brother or sister, that you're a sinner, when we are still full of so much pride ourselves? But also what happens is the capacity to meet ourselves as we are grows when we learn to live in God's presence.

Otherwise, all of us are so frightened. If our true picture came up to us in the mirror, we would not be able to deal with it also because we've convinced ourselves that we are better, we know better, we are right mostly in our lives. And it cannot be that all seven billion are more right than everybody else. It's just impossible. Yet all of us live like that. In your life, aren't you more right than everyone else around you? Is that possible though? You see, so what is it? It's true about everyone else. You see, so this fallacy breaks the more time we spend in prayer. That's why great sages are able to look at their worldly expression in a very objective way with full humility.

You see, and we must never use Advaita as a defense mechanism. The minute life is showing something about our outer expression, we become the Self. That is also another aspect of when we hear the highest too fast, then it becomes a good defense and also a good way to attack our brothers and sisters—that you are so deluded, I know I'm the Self, do you know who you are? See this kind of stuff. So this pathway to living a life in God's light is very nuanced and it's a question of daily growth.

So becoming a saint is not a one-time event. There is a great fallacy everywhere. Even in the modern Satsang, you see the great fallacy. So one day you could have an awakening experience in the moment, which is very beautiful and contributes greatly in that. But pride can also come because of that. So every day, are we being kind and compassionate to our brothers and sisters? Are we still so attached to our will, even more so because now we are spiritual, so our will must be higher? Yeah. So nonsense like that. So it's a lifetime project, if not a multi-lifetime project.

And becoming a saint is a series of million acts of love and kindness. So becoming a saint, again I'm saying, it's not a label like 'doctor' you put 'Saint' in front of. Becoming a saint is to learn to live in God's presence. Doesn't matter what the world thinks of you. When I put it like that, it's a bit easy. I live this life. No. Yeah. I live it in God's presence. Don't ask about today. We have to start today. We have to start right now. Did you want to answer something to the series of things with her?

I used to chant and a mantra given by Amma. So I used to do that regularly, but after coming back to the Satsang after a break, somehow that got robbed and now I listen to Satsang, I sit quietly.

Both are good. Either is good. Either is good as long as it brings you to that place.

Somehow I feel so grateful to you that I can spend the rest of my life with the recognition that I have now. Even though nothing happens in the future, I can live my life like that.

I'm so glad I asked you to speak. Anyone else wanted to answer? I know that what happens is when a question like that is asked, then everyone stops listening and starts preparing for their answer. So, anyone else has something prepared that won't take that away?

But you got the essence of what has been thought. You just have to do what he's asking because if you didn't do that, you'd really be wasting a lot of time. Because you read a million books, but if you don't follow what the Master knows—because sometimes you say this way, then you say that way because you know where you need to take us, right? And teach us how to follow. You're taking us even if I don't know where that was going to end up. But if I didn't do it, I would never know. I mean, I really would not know at all.

So I think that the main way is people can say Bhakti and this and that. But if my first foundation is not going to be to believe what my Master is saying and to really with all my heart try it, how would I even go wherever he's telling me to go home? And we don't know that we don't know anything when we come, but we think we know lots. So to let go of that idea that I know something is really hard. And I think it's the Master's grace, God's grace, which just continuously keeps you there because the mind wants to run away. And if one doesn't have so much faith or love, which grows—but if you didn't have that, we would not be able to do even one thing.

So I'm just so, so grateful because all the resistances have been only broken by your perseverance and nothing to—I can't say that why I made this great effort and how. That's such old lies actually, because I see that the effort which I was making was only my head and you had to keep throwing it out. And so all the effort was yours and not mine. And I just—I could never have bought a life without you and I could never imagine that I will have this life because that's really the greatest gift I ever received.

His grace has blessed all of us so much and I really, I look at all of you and I feel like all of you are so much more devoted, dedicated, sincere in your sadhana. It is just God's grace that He's put me on this chair for some reason. So I feel the point she was making is that the surrender, whether it is to God or Guru, brings us to the same place where Atma Darshan is possible. Out which points to the inner Guru. Just a signboard on the road. A signboard with you see, and that is—I'm not talking about this foolish man. I'm saying that God has designed it this way so that once you start to taste this fragrance on the outside, then you recognize it on the inside also.

And you know, in spite of all the mind attacks and all the things that happen in our lives, when we focus on God, we know that if we keep following that light, that fragrance, we will end up with the true Satguru presence. So I wouldn't say just a signboard, like a signboard with a little bit of a photograph, but never to be taken as a replacement for the real thing. Okay, let's end Satsang today with this question: that every pathway, so many different religions, each religion has thousands of pathways also, are so different in their method and modality. If their destination was not the same, you see, then could God have been the same?

So know that the way to His light is through your spiritual heart, your spiritual center within. And live from there. Love from there. Follow the will of that which will guide you from within. And don't make any distinctions in your brothers and sisters based on the path they are following. So never get into this—and I'm saying from my own experience—I was very much in that idea that Advaita is the best or Bhakti is the best or this is the best or that is the best. The steps you take to enter the sanctum sanctorum are just steps. The sanctum sanctorum is what is important for you to stay. So coming back to walking the steps is auspicious. It's very important because it takes us away from the direction of Maya. It's very good. But we have to spend some time in the sanctum sanctorum as well.