Suffering Is What You Experience When God Is Not Real For You - 4th March 2024

This progress, you know, what you mentioned... I don't know whether I'm lazy or what, but I don't feel like any kind of incentive to any kind of progress. I just get a fear sometimes that I should not fall back. That makes me sit up and do my inquiry and all those things, but it's not from... it's more from like, 'Oh God, I don't want to regret.' Yeah. But I never really feel like... I feel quite content. Is that very lazy or what is it?

No, good. It's very good. Lazy with head empty is good. So there's a different type of lazy, which is that it can feel like we are a victim or hostage to the mind, and it seems like effort to return to that emptiness, to inquire, to pray, to love God. So that is a different type of laziness, which is basically to accept the resistance of the mind and to just say, 'But I'm helpless to my identity, to Maya, to the ego.' But if you are happily lazy with head empty, it's good. Head empty, heartful. Most of the mind's attempt in our lives is to make it the opposite: head full, heart empty. And when the head is full, then there's no question of heart anyway. And what I mean by that is that we are full of what the head is offering us; we are filling ourselves with those constructs, with those notions. And what does the head tell us? It tries to tell us about this. So tell me, tell me something true about this right now. What is true?

So yesterday morning, I ended up waking up early at 4:00, and then I was watching something and listening to some things. Then I was here listening to a sermon and at 6:00 I fell back to sleep. So I went to sleep and I started dreaming. So in this dream, I had a cousin, an older cousin who we were very close with growing up, and my brother, my actual biological brother. We were all on the same bed, three boys, and we were all sleeping. And suddenly this sermon started playing, and it was playing from this external speaker which I have in my room. And I got up and I'm apologizing in the dream. I'm apologizing to my brother and my cousin saying, 'I don't know how this happened. I'm so sorry to wake you up. It's very early in the morning. Go back to sleep. I'm turning it off.' So I'm trying to turn it off and it's not going off. You know, sound is still coming. It's still going on. So I'm turning it off, the off switch, I remove the batteries, it's still going on. Like, what's happening? And you know, so I was pressing the button on it and then more buttons were appearing. I was doing some things and more things were happening. I was just flustered, like what is going on? The sound is coming from here, like you could hear it, no? You could see like it's coming from here. The batteries are out, there's nothing, there's no power in it, and it's still going on. So in this flustered state, then I woke out of that dream and then I saw that the sound was actually coming from the laptop on my bed next to me, and that was a sound that was being heard in that so-called dream state.

So can we really say what is this body really sitting in front of you? Is any of this really happening? Is this not a dream? And this intermingling also tells us that we can't take this stuff too seriously. You don't know where anything is coming from. Like you're hearing this voice now, where is it coming from? Because you're hearing it inside yourself, isn't it? So can you say, 'But yes, it seems to come from there'? And you can try, see, you're hearing it from there. But can we really in our mind, in our intellect, really decipher the nature of anything? Can we really conclude the nature of anything? And we are spending all our time, our whole lives, trying to do this sense-making out of that which is beyond sense and nonsense. But we are spending too much time just trying to make sense of that which is so far beyond human understanding.

So that is one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is to say, 'Okay, so take this to be completely real. It's not a dream, it's complete reality.' You see? Now tell me what this is in this moment. What is your mind capturing? Does your narrative really capture the essence of this moment? No, it just makes some very broad strokes. And in those broad strokes, because 99.9% of the content even is missing, you see, then it becomes a very... once we become compliant to the mind in terms of understanding the nature of reality, then what do you think the mind is going to do? It's going to mess up everything. It's going to say, 'Look, look, look, this is how it is. This is how it is.' It has nothing to do with 'this is how it is.' We don't capture anything about even the perceptual world in our narrative about the world. What is happening to you? What is happening in the world? Where can we go for these answers?

And then the mind presents an opposite point of view which is nihilistic, which is, 'Oh, I can't make sense of it, it's pointless,' all of that. But that becomes then the new construct which again has nothing to do with even this. And then the worst part probably of all of this is that in this narrative, no matter how great it is, the perfume of God, the perfume of love, the perfume of that which is the absolute reality is not there. What happens when we talk about God from the mind? What happens when we talk about the Absolute, the Self, from the mind? It's just words. So it just becomes the dry sort of narrative which then we try to understand and then grasp, and then we presume our progress is on the state of that understanding. If you're understanding more and more, then we are progressing, you see. So you may feel that, 'Okay, now I come to satsung and I don't understand anything, so I am a beginner,' or 'I've been coming to satsung, or even the first time I came to satsung I understood everything, you see, then I am accomplished.' But that is not the type of understanding that I'm talking about.

We must come to a deeper place and then we'll find like what she reported: that 'I'm not trying to progress, I'm not trying really to understand, but it all seems fine.' Why? It should all be collapsing, no? It should all be collapsing because according to the construct of the mind, if you don't understand, then you're nothing, you're nobody, it's a waste, your life will get wasted, you see. But what actually happens is that when you are empty, if it is His grace, then you will find the presence of something which is unexplainable no matter how hard you try. Like someone said the other day, it is un-figure-out-able. And that presence, if you're going to put words to try and describe it, is the presence of God himself. Have you found it? Because finding in the traditional way is very different from how this is found. Like if your phone was lost, then you come to the perception of it, you say, 'Ah yes, I found my phone.' But when you come to this, it may have the perception of a very primordial vibration, but your true finding of it is much deeper than that. That's why you cannot conclude whether it is a phenomenal discovery or a non-phenomenal one. You cannot understand where it is. You may say it's in the heart, some of you may say it's in the forehead, some...

The traditional way is very different from how this is found. Like if your phone was lost, then you come to the perception of it, you say, 'Ah yes, I found my phone.' But when you come to this, it may have the perception of a very primordial vibration, but your true finding of it is much deeper than that. That's why you cannot conclude whether it is a phenomenal discovery or a non-phenomenal one. You cannot understand where it is. You may say it's in the heart; some of you may say it's in the forehead; some of you may say it feels around me somewhere, but it is not physically there. In fact, you may see absurd things like, 'From it comes this whole world.' How can that be? How can that be? You may start speaking like Ashtavakra; you may say that all of this is happening on the screen of this Consciousness, in the very light of this Consciousness.

So you may hear these words like I used to hear them when I started on the spiritual journey, and I used to say, 'Wah, wah, beautiful words, how nice.' But it was only conceptual, conceptual, you see? And it felt like the more I learned these words, the more I could parrot these words, that is when I'm making progress. So when I encountered Maharaj and Bhagavan and all the writing, then they said, 'But you have to be with the sense of being. You have to remain with the sense of being.' Yeah, how to remain with the sense of being? It is very nice to hear that this Consciousness and then in Consciousness all these dreams come and you see all these universes, these states that we call waking, you see. It was very nice to understand it like that. Say, 'Be with the presence.' What presence? I know it's there because I've heard about it and I can probably write a paper on it, but how to be with it?

So that shook me all out of some spiritual complacency, and then I realized that the whole project was upside down. I was learning more and more, I was becoming a spiritual encyclopedia, but was I truly recognizing, finding? And even we have to use these words, but they don't really apply to this. So when we say recognizing, how do we use the word recognizing? I recognize objectively that this is a remote, this is a couch. But when you meet your presence, it's a very different flavor of recognition. So we are going in the right order today where we are saying that what happens when we are head empty, heartful? When we leave all these constructs of the mind, these narratives about the world, this which seems so important, and all these bodies sitting here and outside of here seems so important, but when we leave all the stories about it, come to pure perception, then what really happens is that you have the possibility of discovering something which is so beyond human understanding, you see, that your mind doesn't want you to have it at any cost.

So it will present narratives, it'll present the same old stories; it'll have nothing to do with God's life. You have a chance to meet God and partake in that life, whether you call it freedom, enlightenment, living in heaven, Moksha, Nirvana—doesn't matter. But you have the opportunity to participate in a life which is very, very different from anything the mind can. Then what happens? We start to get a taste of it, and then we want to squeeze it into our old narratives. 'I was like that, but now I'm like this. I was this way, and now it's like this,' you see? So we are trying to squeeze the stories of another universe into the narratives of another universe, and what will happen? We will just make it about 'me' again, which has nothing to do with the nature of reality.

There is a different way, and here in spirituality, there is no distinction between the way and the place. So if in Tao they may say 'the Way,' in Vedanta we may say 'Atma,' in Christianity we may say 'the Kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven.' But these constructs are interchangeable. So whether you came to it because your intellect got eaten up by a Zen koan, or your mind was let go of because of your Bhakti, or you inquired or did the invitation, you realize that you cannot take your kindergarten toys to work with you. Suppose all of you got a job in some office and then you took your rattle and Lego blocks. So we must leave those primitive constructs because they are only serving one purpose, which is to pull you down. It is to pull you down to their level.

But the mind will try with all its might with its mahamantra. What is the mahamantra of the mind, mahamantra of the ego? 'What's in it for me?' or simply put, 'What about me?' But 'what about me?' Even now, some of you may be hearing this saying, 'Yes, yes, all this is fine, but what about me? I have this problem right now.' I'm telling you that you are not in this universe, that your true life is somewhere else in God's light, and you're saying, 'Yes, yes, but it's not helping me right now.' And this is the nature of the mind, that we expect the discovery of that which is a complete shift of perspective, a complete paradigm shift, to be in service to the earlier perspective, the earlier paradigm. 'See, I'm getting all of this. Ah, so how am I feeling now? Yes, yes, yes, it has really changed my life, you know, I'm so much more productive at work.' All those may happen, and I'm just making light of all of this, but all these byproducts may come. But if you make it about these things, then what happened to the true life that you were finding?

Then what is the often-heard response in Satsang? 'But I came for that. But I came for a peaceful life.' So see how compelling the argument sounds in your head, but it falls under the pressure of any valid question. So I was saying last time that you came for idli, but here's a full buffet in front of you. You said, 'But no, I came for idli.' So, 'I came for peace, but you're telling me about God or the Absolute in which all these universes are nothing but tiny, tiny, tiny comings and goings. I didn't want all that. Tell me how I can be peaceful and don't ask me who I am.' I knew you will ask me; I got that reaction so often I stopped asking. When was the last time? Yesterday.

So as you learn to let go of this 'what about me, what about me' mahamantra, then to be in the presence of God, to be in even sadhana, to be in the love for His presence will become easier. And as that becomes easier, then it'll be easier to let go of these thoughts. So it becomes a virtuous cycle in some sense. But if you go with the mind, then that is the vicious circle. 'But what about me?' See, like that. Even yesterday, then enough evidence is there because no reality has ever been stored about any moment, either in memory or in our conclusion. The mind twists it any way it wants. There's enough evidence for our narrative, whatever the narrative may be. If you change the narratives, if you listen to Byron Katie, if you change to the opposite, you have enough evidence for that also. So she will say, 'Okay, can you tell me three ways in which the opposite is true?'

So what does that tell us? That if a narrative or a proposition and its opposite can be equally true for us in the mind, then we are just grasping at nothingness, isn't it? So because it is a habit for us to make an understanding out of everything, but what you're truly understanding in your heart you can never understand in your head. We can let go of that tendency because when you try to squeeze it into your head, what's going to happen? It's going to get contaminated by 'but what about me? What does this mean for me?' And when you are caught up in this hypnosis of 'me, me, me,' where is God? There is your presence, there is awareness, it's all there, but it seems to get hidden. That is the power of Maya.

So this entire game is that switch over. So what if after a few years and I say to you, 'Tell me about your life,' and you tell me about your life in God's presence, in God's light? Would that be something? And the contrast is so stunning because what do we consider it right now? The story of our life is not even the truth about this body's life; it is just lies about this body's life. So it's a second-level stupidity. If you said to me, 'Okay, I'm going to tell you the truth about this body's life,' you see, which I know your mind cannot handle, then even that would be palatable to some extent. But because it is just any random made-up stuff, that's why the opposites are equally true.

So somewhere our mind hates hearing that. It hates hearing that our narratives are full of rubbish. They have nothing to do with reality, not even if you were to take your body to be your reality. It is not true. It is just some shadowy narrative about this play of projections that you think is your life, isn't it? Are you seeing just this way, sort of almost dark kind of story about what you projected and how it actually turned out according to your mind? 'I wanted it like that, but then it happened like that. This one was like this.' As if you ever know any of these things anyway. We are not able to make a single conclusion about ourselves, but we are happy to judge another. 'This one is like this only. This one is like that only.' How is it helping us? Just playing this game of projection thinking that that is our life. Your life has nothing to do with any of this.

And what do these stories do? Mostly they are lamenting our life, except the few moments we like, 'Oh, life is so good.' Mostly if you're intoxicated. I have that experience only once, thanks to my son sitting there. He made me taste some kombucha. What happened? Instead of it becoming probiotics or something, they became alcohol. So I had a little bit, I had a little bit, and next day I told him, 'You know, I had this and I took a walk in the terrace, but I was so sleepy. So are you sure nothing went wrong with it?' 'No, no, Father, you must have had too little or something, you know, because I was feeling so energetic after having.' So I said maybe I had too little. So next I had like three times that quantity. So then I felt really sleepy, went to sleep, and maybe I was singing some bhajan or something like that, I don't know what was happening. So I went to sleep, then I didn't bring it up to him, you know, because the distance between our two realities was too much. So I said okay, I didn't bring it up.

Then a few days later he comes and says, 'You know, Father, it's okay to tell this part, okay?' So, 'Father, I feel like I may have gotten you drunk.' I said, 'Yeah, really? What happened? How do you say?' I was trying out—so he wanted to do some work around these probiotics and kombucha, these kind of things. So he said he was testing out. So he made, and when Govind does a project, he doesn't do it like half measures; it is full on. So he probably had some barrels of kombucha. So he said, 'I was trying it out and I was making notes about it, I was making notes, and then I noticed that after a while I couldn't read my own notes.' That's my only experience of intoxication. That's a story for life.

So the good stuff is few and far between. Mostly our narratives are just lamentations. And if you look at it really, then you'll see that even our so-called ambition, which is much valued in this world, is a lamentation about what is, isn't it? What is, is not enough. So why must we elevate even the tiniest idea of 'better'? It is a resistance to what is. So we live in this state of dissatisfaction, whatever fancy label we give it, but it has nothing to do even with the life of your body. In fact, even your body is getting oppressed by your mind. That's why all these so-called stress-related diseases and all these things affect the body also. All for what? Just these false stories.

What's happening in your true life? It's hidden from you. This God light gets hidden from you. That's why that Plato's Cave is a very good analogy, actually. We feel like even once we see the light, we want to translate that into, 'What does it mean for the shadows in my shadow life?' you see. What does it mean? Nothing, you see. The shadow life is unable to capture a moment of light. For an says, you know, remembrance of God should be continuous and not interrupted, unceasing prayer. Yeah, and says that in the Bible it said that our prayer be unceasing. Okay, Father, so what is prayer? Prayer is...

That's why that Plato's Cave is a very good analogy, actually. We feel like even once we see the light, we want to translate that into: 'What does it mean for the shadows in my shadow life?' You see? What does it mean? Nothing. You see, the shadow life is unable to capture a moment of light. For instance, you know, remembrance of God should be continuous and not interrupted—unceasing prayer. Yeah, and it says that in the Bible; it is said that our prayer should be unceasing. Okay, Father, so what is prayer? Prayer is, you can say it verbally, or you can say it mentally. In fact, if there is only emptiness, that is the best. But if you're going to use the mind, then remember to use it to remember the name of God. So, mental. Then our prayer drops into our heart, where even the chanting, the prayer, comes from a heart to the heart. So then our prayers become a communion with God. Then our prayer deepens into a simple love, and to just hold this love for God in our heart is to have not stopped praying. This is also a continuing of the prayer.

Then you may feel like there is just a presence. You're not able to say how you're being with that presence; it's just the presence is just so apparent and palpable. And the world, even if it is appearing, seems to just be like a gentle cloud just coming and going like that. So, you have not stopped your prayer. And then you may have an insight of yourself which is beyond being and not being, beyond all the 'nesses.' You meet yourself as the Nirguna reality, the Nirguna Self, Nirguna Brahman, God—whatever you want to call it. And from there, what to even say? So even this is prayer. For you to remain in the unborn, to remain open and empty, is also prayer. So everything. So like we said, if we look at the most gross, if you start with the body, to prostrate the body is to pray. Then with the breath, I've explained how we can use it as an anchor for your prayer. The Atma, you can use that. Even the mind you can use to remember the name of God. If you're going to use it at all, then use it to pray.

Once it has dropped into your heart, then it takes a life of its own. Then you are not going to say, 'Oh, now Saguna should come, then Nirguna should come.' You can't control any of that. It's the Satguru presence within itself which guides all of this to happen. So then our life can become an unceasing prayer because we may be in the midst of a lot of activity and things may be happening, you see, but you can remain in the presence. You can remain in the love for the presence. If the presence seems too subtle, then you can remain anchored in that love. It all depends on the kind of activity. So, most activities actually will—there is enough room to chant while the activity can still go on. But if it seems like, 'No, no, it is too difficult, it seems like juggling,' then anchor yourself in the love in your heart and let that activity unfold. If something seems even anchored in a subtlety even beyond that, just the pure primordial, stay there. And if you've gone beyond all of that and your true nature as awareness is apparent to you, then that is—then you're completely open and empty. Then pure perception can continue, but you've not left the prayer.

In all of this, what is common? The intention is not to serve the 'me.' The intention is not to build your narratives more. You're not praying for 'me' anymore. You're not praying so that something can happen for the 'me' anymore. But at the simplest level, it is more important to pray for something if you're going to instead worry about it. Even that is more auspicious than to worry about it, because at least you hand it over. You see, in worry, we still hold on to our individual will, our individual doership. We still hold on to individual belief and power, which is the absence of humility. When we pray—suppose you wanted, let's take a simple example, suppose you wanted a tennis racket. 'Tennis racket... when will I make enough money to buy myself this? What do I have to do? Where can I get it?' To sit and worry about it and to rely on your own power, which is non-existent as you as the ego, versus even to seem materialistic and selfish and say, 'God, please help me get this tennis racket,' is better than for you to sit and worry about it. Because many times you'll make that block and say, 'No, no, I can't go to God with that.' We rely on the false one. So, take everything to God. That is another way to remain in prayer.

You see, in the Narada Bhakti Sutras, Narada has told us that we must surrender everything—worldly desires, spiritual desires, everything—to God. This is how we pray unceasingly. And all the sages have told us how to. Ma Anandamayi, of course, in her kindness has said, 'Start with a short period of time, then keep increasing that.' You see, use your breath to chant. All this she also provided in some way because it is the same light of the Satguru presence that gets all these beautiful sages to share with us.

Yeah, so this is an old habit of using the mind.

Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. So if we just go for a moment into the mechanics of it, how do you engage with the thought? The mind is nothing but a bundle of thoughts. These thoughts collectively we call the mind. And the mind only produces one thought at a time, you see. So what is the mechanics of it? First, attention has to be there. Otherwise, if attention—that's why many Masters will tell you to chant or to be with your breath or to do whatever practice to keep your attention fixated on something else, so that you will not even notice what the mind is saying. But let's say that that is not what we are doing. So first, attention goes on it. So we are able to perceive the message that the thought is telling us. It is saying, 'This one is like this' or 'I am like this' or 'I should not have done that'—anything, whatever the message is. But attention is not the only instrument with which we engage with the thought, isn't it? There's also that strange, absurd instrument called belief.

You see, because attention, although it's non-phenomenal, at least we can all relate to: 'My attention went there. My attention went to the traffic on the road.' So all of us have used it in that way. We've also used belief, but we've not looked at it in such a micro way. Usually you say that, 'Ah, the proposal is coming.' You see, because every thought, every construct, every concept is proposing something about the nature of reality—that something is like this or something is like that. Belief is the ability that Consciousness has given to itself to take that construct to truly represent reality in some way. So when we let go of our belief, then we notice that even in pure attention, nothing really happened.

So that's why that ATM example came here many years back, where if you wanted suffering, if you wanted misery, we need to go to the 'Anytime Misery' machine called the Maya. You see? So how do we operate it? First, we put the ATM card in, which is the 'Attention To Mind' card. So when we put the ATM card in, does just by putting the ATM card you get the money? No. You also have to put your personal identification. And belief is to give it that personal identification. When you believe something to be true, it becomes part of our identity. So that PIN—it's just like this metaphor is designed for Satsang—this PIN is also needed before you can get the misery. But if you agree to put the attention to mind and the personal identification, an unlimited amount of misery you can get. This account doesn't run out.

So to be free from misery... and the thing is that you cannot get misery any other way. Your friend cannot give it to you, although we may believe he or she can. Another one in front of you cannot give it to you. You have to get it for yourself from the ATM machine which is here. Try. Nothing has happened to you outside which can make you miserable. So then when you get the focus right, then you figure out where is the root of the problem. Then you can start tackling it at the root. And what is it doing? It's not just about misery. It's not just about misery because if it was just about suffering, you'd say, 'Okay, I have a suffering dream or I have a happy dream; it's all going to end anyway. What's the big deal in that?' You see, so you may become almost nihilistic about it. But really it is about truth. It is about God. It is about your true Self. So suffering is what you experience when God is not real for you.

You see, the plan is much more devious than we may construct. You see, it can just be like, 'Oh yeah, okay, I have to die anyway. Whether I die laughing or I spent my whole life crying, how does it really matter?' But it really matters whether you found Him, whether you lived in His light, whether you found this eternal life before this body goes. That distinction is as far apart as we can imagine it: a life lived in the darkness of the mind versus a life lived in the light of the Atma within. And that is why mostly I avoid or try to resist the narrative of self-help in Satsang, because if it just becomes about, 'Oh, how I am and what happens to me in a physical way,' then we are missing the whole point, the main point. This one more thing is coming to say, and then... a mind may give us the construct that if I go with the mind, then I will be miserable all day, or if I let go of it, then I can just be happy. You see, that's like saying that I shifted my whole life from here to—what's a good example?—I shifted from here to London just so that I could have a look at the Big Ben. To who? I mean, who's going to shift their whole life, transport fully, just to see the Big Ben? There must be something deeper, something more important than whether this body is laughing or crying in this switchover.

Father, I was exploring this—say again—I was exploring this narrative of the mind and seeing how is it actually coming together also. And there are these five inputs: shabda (sound), sparsha (touch), rupa (form), rasa (taste), and gandha (smell). And the thought doesn't seem to have any content beyond this; it's just an assembly of this. But actually they are received independently through different instruments. Yeah, how do you perceive a thought? How do you perceive a thought?

Attention, yes, yes. But in what, in which one of these five?

Mostly sound, sometimes visual. Yes, mostly sound. The others are dominant—the other three I felt are dominant, these two were predominant.

Everyone has their own unique way of perceiving a thought. So that's why I'm very curious about this because—sorry, just a slight digression—the first time I said this in Satsang, I said these thoughts just come like this, like this, as perception. And then somebody says, 'No, no, no, for me thoughts come like that.' And another one says, 'It's like a neon light that goes on.' Another one says, 'It comes in the form of some imagery. You see, I don't really think, but I see images about it.' So it's very... everyone seems to perceive their thoughts in a unique way.

So this thought, which is basically these five inputs from five different sensors, if I can use that word, and yet there is a construct of reality that is given to this and the story that is assigned to this whole thing. And I was trying to see what is it in me that is actually assigning reality to this. And somewhere it came to this point, Father—I'll say it in Hindi because that's how I relate best to it—is 'jeene ki ichha' (the desire to live). To live as a 'me.' This 'jeene ki ichha' is where I felt these inputs are being given value. And it's funny because in the past month I traveled a lot by aircraft, and I had a habit that whenever it would take off, I would pray for everybody's safety in the plane, including myself. And similarly while landing, you know, the first thing would be to pray for the safety. But this time, the last couple of trips, this was becoming apparent: that why should I even want to live as a 'me'? So I just left it. It is Ishwara; if He wants to live it, live. And there was a great sense of relief, release, and the whole stickiness of the mind felt reduced. But I want to understand this deeper: that this 'jeene ki ichha,' the desire to live as a 'me,' how does one dissolve that fully?

It's beautiful. Good report. So this desire to perpetuate life or to live a...

The last thing would be to pray for the safety, but this time, the last couple of trips, this was becoming apparent: that why should I even want to live as a 'me'? So I just left it. It is Ishwara; if He wants to live, it lives. And there was a great sense of relief, release, and the whole stickiness of the mind felt reduced. But I want to understand this deeper: this desire to live as a 'me', how does one dissolve that fully?

It's beautiful. Good report. So, this desire to perpetuate life or to live a certain way, it's just like it's a very primal desire. It's a very deep-rooted condition. But at the root of it, you see, we are talking about two different things, isn't it? One is that in the design of this display, most organisms—even a tiny ant, you see, if it senses danger, it will run in the other side. So that is in the design of this. Even some plants, if there's too much heat, they will turn the other way; flowers will turn the other way. So we're not talking about that. We are talking about the extra pressure or desire that humans put onto themselves, you see, in that way. And that only comes through the same functioning of belief in the thought, belief in the construct of these thoughts.

Empty of that, that which is the natural movement of this body may continue to happen. So there's like, suddenly there's fire and you know, you move away, recoil away from that; that may just happen naturally. But that whole mind-operated way in which it believes that the 'me' can perpetuate his life or have some control about it, that is the same way: through belief in these thoughts. So, empty of that, to be surrendered to God. Remember, though, although I've said that if praying for safety gives you comfort and otherwise you will quietly worry about it, then it's better to continue to pray for that. But if it is not a concern anymore, very good.

So the dissolving is, again, is remaining in the presence? Is the mind...

Yes, yes. The dissolving is the letting go of the mental constructs and remaining in His light, His presence. So what will happen is that once we come to some insight, deep inside, we must allow it to deepen in our heart, you see. Allow it to deepen in your heart because your mind will say, 'This is very good. What did we really understand from this?' See, it tries to feel like a friend in the process, but you will only cover it up. You will only cover it up if you try to understand it too quickly. Instead, let it just keep flowering in your heart, and then you will find there some word may come from your mouth and you hear it. You see, my heart inside is finding expression in some words which were put in my mouth by the heart itself.

And this is important for all spiritual understanding. So don't at all go to the mind to understand what you understood intuitively. You have an insight, and the mind is not satisfied with that. 'What did you really get? Something switched, like something shifted, not shifted.' You see? And if we fall for that trap, then you're again trying to say, 'Okay, what really happened? What really did I understand?' So don't fall for that. And definitely don't make it about, 'So now what does this mean for me? How will my life change because of this?' Then again you come to the shadow puppets dancing.

I just wanted to share something. I like what you said about when the mind's looking for evidence that you got it or something like that. And it's really one of my favorite things of this journey, of this path, is when the historic reaction just doesn't arise, you know, in response to something. I remember Mooji once said, like when he was living in London, in his flat that we went to, and then there's that little garden outside. And he said he used to really enjoy sitting there and looking out, and then he had this hedge that was growing all the time. And then one day he just got a pair of shears and he just went outside and he just took the top off it. And then that afternoon he had some friends come and visit, and he kept like looking out of the window admiring it, you know? And they said, 'What are you looking at? What are you looking at?' And he was trying to explain, like, he wasn't enjoying something that was there; he was enjoying something that wasn't there anymore.

And it's just such a beautiful feeling when, like, I had it today when I was crossing the footbridge, you know, and then someone like came from... it's just like, actually, I think for the first time I was more just like naturally more concerned that I hadn't maybe stood on him or something, even though he'd come charging in front of me, than 'Oh my God, this guy is just in front of me' and you know, like that. And I think Jesus said something about like the Holy Spirit comes like a thief in the night and just like steals these things away from us. It's just so good. It's so good because it's not something we could do ourselves. It's not something we could do ourselves, and it's just beautiful to have it done, you know, and to just be able to like, 'Thank you,' you know? Like, so beautiful.

So nice. Yeah. The thing is that in the same way, the holiness of our hearts takes away so much strife, so much trouble from our lives, but like, we don't even notice most of it, you see. So just we look at it from one point to another and say, 'Wow,' you see, that something has really changed at an aggregate. But there's so many subtle conditions, so many subtle buttons that we have in our life that the light of the Atma, as we learn to live in its presence more and more, just thins out, thins out, thins out till it comes to a point that you don't even find it there.

So beautiful. I didn't quite hear the last part what he said. It thins out and then...

Yes, all these conditions, they keep thinning out more and more till at some point you don't even remember that they were there. Then someone tells you, an old friend says, 'But you used to be like that. You used to like this particular thing so much.' And you say, 'Ah, really? Oh yeah, there is some memory of that.' It's a beautiful transformation that happened.

Very. And it's like it brings so much confidence and trust, and like that inner prayer is so simple of just like, 'Carry on, please carry on.'

Very. Yeah. This is the deepening of trust, the development of trust, which then becomes our faith, you see. And then that faith and trust with love becomes our devotion. Such a beautiful transformation carried by... you just keep pretending that you're doing. I mean, in your heart you know you didn't do anything, you can't do.

And can you just... the mind... well, by pretending you mean that just conversationally for the sake of the words? Yeah, because sometimes when you hear saying that you don't go to a restaurant and say, 'You know, actually I'm pure awareness but just manifesting as consciousness, and that consciousness is putting words in this mouth saying I want a spaghetti something.' No, we haven't reached yet. I'm just saying what you know. So the pretending could be, 'I just like, I want a spaghetti.' No, the pretending is that, or is it really like believing? Is it really believing the narrative? And then because that is the pretense which is full of suffering and trouble.

So no, so some places it's completely clear that you couldn't do that, like quitting smoking. You're like completely... you know that you could not have done this, done it. Yes, right? So there's not even a narrative which can lie to you about it. Other narratives can lie.

Well, it could have. And it's a sign of maturity that you brush it off and say... because you know, you may say, 'Oh, but I had to really exert a lot of willpower.' But that's the thing, I didn't have to.

That's why I'm saying that that's maturity. Otherwise, many will say that it was something that they did instead of being carried by God's support. So same is with the running.

Yeah, this lazy body now, this one cannot go. And I know that, I mean, I know who's carrying it. It's just the pretend sometimes is that, and you get some praise and you... I mean, the pretend is where you think that you could have done, and then you realize, no, no, even that was not really your doing.

And every position is a pretense. So every thought in a way is proposing a position. You can't... even if you had to do one heartbeat, we couldn't do it. Not one heartbeat. So something is, some intelligence is running there. To live our entire life in the light of that intelligence. So okay, here's your question. So when your mind is saying something to you, chip chip, okay, then is it really a question?

Okay, no. My heart... I know the answer actually, I'm checking the answer.

Okay, see. Who really wants to hear the question? Who wants to hear the question? So when you're feeling, you know, like it's saying some nonsense, and then one of the pointers can be used to just negate it. Like I say, 'Do you even know what the next thought is going to be?' And you know, you can check this. 'Do I know? No.' So the pointer can be used to just become empty again, and I can not believe those, any, whatever the thought may be, right? This is 42, 42. She was talking about Douglas Adams.

Can you have a life in your heart while not being empty in the head? The way Satsang flowed today was in this way: we start with open and empty, then the presence becomes apparent, palpable. Then we discover what our true life is and where our true life is: in God's light. And from there, everything is different. Not necessarily different in the outer world, but it's like we shifted planets. The difference actually is bigger than that. But to go from the operation of the mind to God's light, and yet strangely we get withdrawal symptoms from the oppression. So we just... and the mind, it can... that is the period of oiness and maybe some have even called it the Dark Night of the Soul and these kind of things. And it can seem very scary because you feel like you don't have the ground to stand on anymore. What is happening to you? What is going to happen? You're going to die. The mind will propose all of these things.

Ironically, just when you're coming to true life, you're the most scared of death. So then the mind comes as a friend and says, 'No, no, hold on to me. I'm here to help. You see, this is the way in which I'm helping. Don't listen to that one too much.' Okay? That one who talks to you in... don't listen to him too much because he's too far out, he's too radical, he's not helping, he doesn't understand your life. All this stuff it'll tell you. You need to be careful of that. Any offer that comes, it says, 'No, you're on your own on this one. You have to do this on your own, on your own terms.'

There are... see, our mind cannot visualize seven, eight billion. You can maximum go to maybe fifteen, thirty. Thirty is also tough. So you may start... you did this exercise. Does any... so I say, okay, imagine one orange. Everyone can do it. Three, five. Easier to imagine if they're still five. Five everyone can do. Seven. Keep your attention on seven oranges. Ten. Got ten? Ten, fifteen? No chance. Now just oranges. So that is the limited nature of our mind. It is so tiny. With our imagination, with our memory, all these things are so small. But we give it credit for so much. Give it credit for so much that we can understand.

So just going to say that there are seven billion or more than seven billion of us apparently, humans on this planet, and all of them have the same thing. They have the same concerns, they have the same problems. The mind convinces you that you have a unique set of things. Your life is especially bad, usually especially bad. When you're feeling good, then especially good. Nothing. There is nothing special at all about our worldly life. Because you may have the money of the Rockefellers or now the Ambani, but you're going to still sleep on one bed, sit on one chair, wear one set of clothes, and you will not be peaceful if your mind is bothering you, and you'll be happy if you're...

The mind convinces you that you have a unique set of things, that your life is especially bad—usually especially bad. When you're feeling good, then it's especially good. There is nothing special at all about our worldly life because you may have the money of the Rockefellers or now the Ambani, but you're going to still sleep on one bed, sit on one chair, wear one set of clothes, and you will not be peaceful if your mind is bothering you. And you'll be happy if you're in your heart, in God's love and presence. It's all the same stuff. The mind convinces you—why I'm saying all this is because the mind convinces you that you have some special problem, you have some special thing. The problems are only these four: my relationships, my financial security, your security and the health of this body, and the constructs of meaning that we keep chasing, man's search for meaning, whatever you want to call it. So different quantities at different times, these variables keep playing up in our heads and that is the human condition. It's very primitive actually. So what is there much to think about this life? Same old stuff: I want, I want, I want; I don't want, I don't want, I don't want. So I'm the travel agent for a different type of life. Then you have to come with me fully. You can't keep one toenail in your mind and then live in God's light in your heart.

I had the trouble with the construct of the spiritual seeker. Father, I feel very immature. Father, like you say that, you know, the presence doesn't leave you, but you leave the presence. I am so stupid, Father. Like, I feel like, you know, this is a time when I go so deep, then I feel so distracted and I come out. Like, you know, did you come out? Yeah, I feel that's true for all of us. So I'm not just saying for all of you, it's for this one. But Father, when you have to go back into it, it takes so much. Like...

Then don't leave next time.

It is so difficult to get back. It's like you're visiting a beautiful place, but if you leave that place, it's so difficult to get back.

That should be more inspiration to not leave. But momentarily, or more than momentarily, we buy into the exchange offer from the mind saying, 'God can wait. You have this particular thing going on that's more important.' That's how we live because we are valuing something else. Is it possible to leave without that? Don't value anything but that. And to value that is just to remain in the present now. Don't assign any value to any other narrative. Then how will you leave?

See, because it's helpful for everyone, Father, the mind finds it boring. Father, sometimes it says it's boring. Shame to that, no?

It's okay, but let's look at it. It says it's boring. That's common for it to say. It finds it boring. I don't know, it says to you, it's just like, 'That's it.' But really? And so both can't be true, that it's just 'meh.' One option is just 'meh.' What's 'meh'? The other option is that the sages have told us that is your reality beyond time and space. That is that light in which all these universes are born. You are the boundless ocean in which the appearances of these universes come and go. That is the Kingdom of Heaven which is always within us. So what makes that contrast between me and this is, you see, this is the greatest recognition. What is actually true? Both, you know where we started, both can be true, yeah. But if you are forced to take a side, what is true? Ashtavakra never said it's going to be boring there. Jesus never said, 'You will find the Kingdom of Heaven within you, but by the way, I've got some inside info for you: it's very boring. So enter at your own risk.' So how come the sages have not told us it's boring? What's going on? And you're not lying, but so then what's going on? So indirectly, are we saying that 'the mind finds it boring' is an indirect, polite way of saying 'I find it a bit boring sometimes and that's why I am tempted by the...'? I mean, if the mind finds it boring, the mind finds it boring, there's nothing to do with me. But somewhere in there is the idea that the mind finds it boring and I agree at times, yeah. How is it really? How is your inner life really?

A younger person on this journey before may have had this thought. Yes, I just wanted to share that, you know, I think that this... it is harder when one is young because it's hard and the mind takes this position of boredom. And I think a lot of it has to do also with social pressure and it's like, you know, there's no fun and why you're doing this because you could be having all this fun. But so it is, it kind of happens. But I think to hold on to the fact that it is... it's just a very brief interim period. It's like, because once you reach the other side, it's like far from boring. But perhaps that bit of a phase is there.

Yeah, see what you mean. So the mind can pull us out with the offer of fun or excitement when it can seem like this is quite dry. But you have to go beyond the boredom because if you go beyond the boredom, then you will never meet something as pristine as your own Self. And you'll really, once you start enjoying the company of your own presence, you'll never be bored. I don't feel like, truly, I've said to anyone that I'm bored since 2009. See, because boredom is a very subtle-sounding, very humble-sounding notion, but it's a big resistance to what is. You see, what is the message of boredom? 'What is' is not enough. It needs to be more exciting or pleasurable in some way. But when you transcend that, the sweetness of your own company, of your own true company, Satsang, it's unparalleled. You will be sitting alone by yourself for years. How to get bored? I am here. You'll never meet better company than yourself and you'll never meet worse company than your mind. You know the fifth? Most of you have heard it. What's the fifth? The first corner is true, second corner is false. That's where most logic ends. Something can either be true in the first corner or it's in the second corner of being false. But in the Eastern traditions, they used to have a third corner which was both true and false. Western logic fails over there. How can something be both true and false? Then the fourth corner: neither true nor false. That's where our intellect mostly gives up because for any proposition it has to be either true or false. If you stretch it, then okay, both true and false. But neither true nor false? Then the Buddha said the truth can be found in the fifth. What is the fifth? So the truth can be found, but these four corners are trouble, the first two especially. The fifth is the best resting place.

So many Satsangs you've been saying that for a long time, you know, that it's only one thought that can block God's light. And the way you can leave, many ways you've said. And you've also said that if you go to the mind, then it'll tell you the thief is something else. So is this also something... you notice this, you keep saying, but is this also known only intuitively and you can't force it? It has to come up on its own. Because I tried many times and somehow it just... it's not done.

You tried many times and you found what?

I haven't been able to notice this, that it is that one. Which thought is it and how?

Let's try. Let's try now. Remain in your presence, in your heart, and notice if the presence leaves or you leave. And what is the mechanism of you leaving the presence? The light of Atma within, without a thought, have you left? Leave without a thought.

Yeah, left. That feeling isn't there. But who knows what heart in between? I don't know.

It's good to see. So there was a feeling which you left with attention, is that it? Do it again. You have some context to all of this. Yeah, good, good, good. So just maybe I recap a little bit. So I don't know what he told you, but I have some very absurd things that I tell everyone. The biggest probably absurd thing I tell everyone is that this world appearance is a Maya, is a Leela, you see, which implies that it appears but it doesn't have any substance. It doesn't have any tangibility, any reality. As opposed to that, there is the presence of God within ourself, which we may call the Atma within, or the Satguru presence, or the Holy Spirit, or the consciousness, the presence of consciousness. And as we turn inwards towards that presence, as we learn to live in the love of that presence, in the light of that presence, that which is avidya, which is ignorance, which is to take the false to be true and to take darkness to be light, that actually falls away. And you come to the presence of a greater reality than we could have ever imagined. And that is the reality of finding God. And in the light of that discovery of the holy light within ourselves, the Atma within ourselves, we find our true reality, our true nature as the absolute Nirguna, that attributeless Self. And what is important is that you don't have to agree with me. You don't have to believe me. None of this is true just because I say it. But it is important to either say that, 'Yes, I'm finding what you are saying, it seems to be true,' or to say that, 'No, you're just fooling everyone, you see, just talking rubbish and just painting stories and just confusing everyone with your words.' So either prove me right or prove me wrong. Because if I told you, I don't know, let's presume that you like... neither are you going to keep her in your community, so we won't get in more trouble. But for a moment, let's presume that you like Mohan. If I told you that Mohan is in that kitchen there, you see, and I sound like a credible voice to you, you would at least say, 'Oh, let me go and check,' you see. And then after checking, you could say, 'No, no, he's not there, therefore you are lying.' Or, 'Oh, thank you, he is there and I got to meet him. I always wanted to meet him,' you see. But I'm telling you about something which is much greater than any icon or film star or something like that. And be careful of who's sitting right there, so many malis in the... So I'm telling you that God is real, is not a conceptual construct, and His presence, His light can be found. And in the finding of that, we come to the end of the strife and suffering that we call human existence. See, and our outer life, the play of life, may continue to go on, but our inner life gets transformed in a way that we could not previously imagine. So that is the construct, that is the basic subtext to most things that you hear in Satsang, you see. It is about this changeover from the way of the head to the way of the heart. Because why the heart? This is your spiritual center. Not the emotional heart, because many people say, 'Oh, I'm all heart, I'm not head at all,' you see, 'so I will fit in very well into Satsang.' But what they actually meant is that they just go with their emotions, whatever their emotions were telling them. But that is not the kind of heart that we are talking about. We are talking about the holy presence within ourself, the Atma within, which seems to emanate—the core of it seems to emanate from our spiritual heart. So to come to the company of this truth, Sat, is to come to the company of the truth, is literally the meaning of Satsang. So that's what we mostly, that's what we mostly speaking of. It's good to do these recaps because you could be coming to Satsang five years and then you hear the recap and say, 'Oh, that's what we're doing here.' It can happen. Because many may still believe that it's about finding that spiritual aspect of our life and making our life more well-rounded. No, it's a complete overwriting of the previous operating system with a new one. You're safe, you're safe, you're safe. Ram on the other hand, she also... see also, see.

Now, first of all, I don't want to be seen as, you know, weak or, you know, vulnerable. Yeah, I feel like, I don't know, before I felt like I could just come and say anything, you know. Nowadays, I don't feel like I am, you know, if I go through something, I don't want to say it in the Satsang because image, image. My kids are there, even the Sangha, I don't want to be seen in a certain way. So I don't want...

Operating system with a new one. You're safe. You're safe. You're safe.

On the other hand, she also—see, also see. Now, first of all, I don't want to be seen as, you know, weak or, you know, vulnerable. Uh, yeah, I feel like, I don't know, before I felt like I could just come and say anything, you know? Nowadays, I don't feel like—if I go through something, I don't want to say it in that sense because image, image. My kids are there. Even the Sangha, I don't want to be seen in a certain way. So, I don't want to have died, Father.

Very good, very good. What is the image you want to uphold, or the mind wants you to uphold? Like the one who's not shaken, not vulnerable, you know? Um, who's getting somewhere, you know? Who's gotten to a certain level. And that is what has been troubling me also in these days.

I think somewhere, like, some pride comes with praying, or you know? And then if I don't have—I don't know where, what—like just the whole shebang comes again. Then it's like a chain reaction. Like you said, it takes a momentum and then it doesn't stop. So it starts—it's very like sly, sly undercurrent. And then when I come in front of you, that's my biggest, you know, where it can get me or it can just not be there at all, you know? And today then it starts to make those—that whole—it's the same thing. It's nothing that I haven't said or nothing, but it's so suffocating and so, like, like a—I don't know how to explain it. It's so dense. I don't like it.

What about it's so nothing?

It doesn't feel like nothing that time. Well, like right now it's okay, but that time it was not feeling like—I tried following, I was able to follow, and then in and out, in and out. It was like that. And Father, I felt so much anger towards you today. I could see I was not feeling—I don't know why, like towards—I feel like I was so scared. Like you say, fear. Because of fear we express as anger, yeah? So I feel like it was that. I was fearful, you know? I was—and then I was judging myself, then I was comparing, you know? And then I was like, I don't want to look at you, I don't want to talk to you, you know? Like that.

And so many topics. Let's start with pride. That's something very beautiful for us to notice is that Kabir Ji said this Maya is the biggest con artist, and she can hide even in the holiest-seeming places. And how does this Maya operate? In the form of these narratives from the mind. So you said that even praying or progress can make us proud somewhere, and we feel like, 'Ah, but I can't say this. Then what will they think?' Yeah? They will think, 'My teacher itself is just a beginner if she hasn't transcended these things.'

And honestly, I don't—the other part of me doesn't even want to be a—like, you know, I don't even want to show myself as something to them from my heart. But I am in this again and again, in this trap, you know? It's so sick.

It is so. The reassurance is that nobody in the world will ever take us to be a bigger fool than we actually are. Like, it's true for this one, it's true for all of us. When we really self-examine—I'll talk a little more about the self-examination—it is not possible for any of you to take me as a bigger fool than I actually am. And remember that also.

Father, you know, yesterday I shared, or whenever, Saturday, and after satsang I felt like I have said a lot of these things, okay? Like you are saying, and I was saying that, you know, I am so foolish and I'm like this and I'm like that. And before satsang started, I was feeling like that because I was very much in my heart and praying and you know. But when it started, and especially in like social setups, I am not how I am when I'm alone, okay? And even coming to satsang, I'm very different when I'm in the room, logged in my room, to when I'm here. Like, I don't know if that is true, what is going on honestly. But I say all this, Father, but I don't think I believe it truly. Like, I get poked by all this. I'm not believing that even when you said right now about being a fool, it did—like, I was like, you know, I'm happy to—strange.

No, even when I'm including this one also in there. Yeah, especially this one. Because truly there comes a point where you notice that everything good that is said from here, everything good that has happened here, you see, has happened because of His light, because of His love, because of His grace. As you see that more and more, then we recognize that there is—what is here? Like, what is it that I can be proud of? But when—like, when I am in that, that time this doesn't feel true.

Like that every—because it's like—

No, I'm just saying that when we are caught up in the hypnosis of the mind, then the false does seem true. But for a moment, if you were to discuss what is actually true, what is there in this bundle of food, this flesh and blood, which is so special, different from my eight billion, seven billion brothers and sisters of the world? I don't see anything that is here organically without His prompting from within, without His guidance from within. So what is it that we can be proud of? And if people take us to be nothing, then it's not really wrong because all there really is is God's light. And if they feel like, 'This one is nothing at all, why should I bow down to them?' it's very true. I feel like, why should anyone stand up when I enter the room or bow down to me? This foolishness and pride to feel that that should happen for this foolish one.

So it's very important to examine like that, but it's also important to keep that examination to about—like we were saying the other day—keep that to about ten percent. It should not become like—oh, that becomes a new way of obsessing about yourself. 'I'm like this' or 'I'm like that,' 'I'm like this' or 'I'm like that.' So notice, let's notice our inadequacies, our limitations, but then return to noticing God's light, to notice His vastness, His love. So that self-examination is important to keep us humble, but to return to His love, to His light, is to return to our true life which is spent in His presence.

So this image thing is very important for all of you to understand because especially as you get to sharing and you're going to spread His light among so many, it's better to nip it in the bud.

It took me a little bit to come up, you know? Like, I wanted to just—when you asked me before, I wanted to talk, and the fear was actually just to come up. I don't feel fearful now. It just those fifteen, twenty minutes, whatever—fifteen, I don't know how many minutes it took me like to—

So we have to nip this tendency in the bud. And if we feel like there's something special about any of us, let's say, what is it?

I feel a lot of—I feel like I've bought into a lot of these special ideas, but I don't really say them. I don't even say them to myself. I feel, you know, like prayer, I said—prayer I felt. That's why it's important not to repeat even to yourself that you're praying, that 'I'm praying.' I got frustrated today, or—and don't—today, yesterday, I don't remember yesterday, but I feel like last few days, two, three days. And today I felt like, you know, 'Who?' you know, like that kind of thing. 'Who will pray? Like, who will make the prayer like so many times?' And I can't, you know? Instead of—I started feeling like this, that 'Who prays like so many times and nothing's happening? Why is nothing happening?' And then I came here with some fear and I was not okay also to sit in a seen place. And then that—and when you were looking around, then the mind started acting up and saying, you know, 'Oh, you are not even worthy, you know? After praying so much, you're not worthy of being looked at by your Guru. Look at you, blah blue.' And it went mad.

So we decided that you're not going to check on progress for how many years? Two years. Two years. How much has it been now?

I think it's been—it's been two weeks since that conversation. Must be two weeks.

So, what is the—two years is not some designated time or something like that. It is just because we want to progress, we want to achieve. All of that is the mind's tendency. Because the promise seems so big that he's saying that I can find God, you see? And that is the greatest thing to find. But the mind will make that out into the greatest achievement that we can achieve and therefore become special as a result of that, you see?

So God knows that this patience, this waiting, this holy waiting in our sadhana is so that all these tendencies can be wiped clean as much as possible. Because what if you prayed for one week, like you prayed thousands of times, and there He was, clear and apparent? 'I found God! See, all of you looking for God ten years, so many years. How are you praying? I prayed properly for one week and there you are.' I'm not saying you do that. I'm just saying that this is the human condition, this is the human tendency. So God wants to make sure that it's God for God's sake, God for God's sake, and then reveal Himself in that way. So as long as there's a tendency to take it personally, then it is better for our own self to not be able to claim that. So the tendencies have to be wiped in the process because we know what happens. Times that people have true insight but spiritual pride gets to them. We talk about Ravana basically in every satsang. So we have to be careful of that.

I could see it's my—when you came to satsang, I just—the first thing that came was I felt like, like you're walking on this pride, you know? It's getting—like it was feeling like that. And I can see that sometimes it's a mix also of this longing and frustration, you know? It gives everything.

So that's why the—see, what it prevents us from doing in a way is that it prevents us from switching over to this life that I'm talking about because even in this, it puts everything into the construct of 'my life,' you see? So we must break out of that tendency. But we'll break out of it once we deepen in this way. This is already good, to expose it in front of everyone, in front of the Sangha, in front of your Satguru. So that is very good to do and to notice the tricks that it plays. If there's one thing that I wish all of you could follow is that: make the mind work hard. I said this before. Don't get pushed around with the same buttons from the mind. Same—'What will this one think? What will this Sangha think?' Same thing only can get me. No, nothing new is getting me. So tell the mind, 'Same old stuff. Give me something new to suffer from.'

I could see like it's my—this is my story. This is the story of this girl.

So let's end this story today. Can we?

You can. I don't feel I have any capacity anymore.

We need some collaboration. Okay, fine. So commit now that this story will not get you. Can it get you without your permission?

It's just offering. The thoughts are coming. But I feel like some fear grips me that time.

No fear, nothing grips you except the thought. It's a belief in a thought. In fact, you are gripping the thought. See, this is literally the example of that where the thief says, 'I'm not the thief, it's that one, it's that one.' So this is how you must meet it. Fear can come. It's coming like that. All that that is fear. What is fear? Fear for me is like—

I can't open my eyes. I can't look around. Like, you know, it makes me shy like that.

Okay, all that is happening. Okay, okay. Now, so where is pride in that? Where is anything? Where is image? Nothing. Till the thought comes and says, 'Oh, you can't be seen like that,' or 'You should be beyond this by now.' That is all later.

Yeah, later. Before other thoughts come. Okay, yeah. These are like later when I want to expose and get over it, it doesn't then allow me with its—I told you know, that 'You're not worthy.' Unworthiness.

Unworthiness. The thought. It's not this energetic movement that's doing it. The thought comes, and even with attention on the thought, nothing happens. But when you give your assent to it, when you give your belief to it, that is when you made the visitor permanent. Not today, sorry. So when the Zen masters have told us that thoughts are visitors, don't serve them tea, so we don't—

I want to expose and get over it. It doesn't then allow me with its... I told you know, that you're not worthy. Unworthiness, unworthiness—the thought. It's not this energetic movement that's doing it. The thought comes, and even with attention on the thought, nothing happens. But when you give your assent to it, when you give your belief to it, that is when you make the visitor permanent. You are not today are sorry. So when the Zen masters have told us that thoughts are visitors, don't serve them tea. So we don't just serve them tea; we make them permanent roommates like that TV show you haven't seen.

Today I saw... I'm trying to hear you. Today I saw that when you were talking about the mind looking for evidence in the perception to, you know, confirm its narrative, I was really feeling like that's how it is for me. It comes like a visual. So the visual that was playing again and again was you looking at others and not looking at me. I know it's very... it doesn't... I know it's very, very dumb, but that is something when I go into this funk, it gets me, you know?

That is one of the most popular ones. Yeah, for twelve years across the board, I've heard this: that today, the whole satsang, you didn't look at me, you see? Or the other variation of that is: when you were saying something about somebody being very selfish or somebody being very... then you looked at me. So neither of those I'm planning, okay? So then this is like you... the mind makes us the most selfish one in this whole world, huh? And I have to be careful not to look. You were looking at me when you said that! It just moves this neck just more that I know.

No, it was going on, playing that visual again and again for me, you know? And that's what was getting me. Also, make a list of things which the self has been bothered with for more than a decade now and not fall for those. Let's make the mind work hard, no? Let's find some fresh material. Father, it's sounding very practical, but it's very, very difficult. In who's saying that? I don't have this faith that it will... who's saying that I won't be able to make it? I'm saying it's you mess... like I'm somewhere, if I'm saying I'm convinced that it will never go, it's a thought, of course, that is telling me that in future, you better believe me.

Yeah, yeah, it's just a thought. Now remain empty of thoughts right now. I am still that. The problem can seem monumental, but it's held up by one thought, which is that one—the one that it is offering you now. Let go of this one. You can't do this. You can't do it.

At one point it was like, just leave it, it's not going to happen, you know? Forget it, just not your cup of tea. Not your cup of tea. What are you praying like? Also said it so many times, especially since we deepened in this way, that this is too difficult to project. It's not your cup of tea.

But okay, now you tell me, what is option two? Oh no, this is my only option. God is the only option, yeah. Option two is to take yourself to be this bundle of flesh and blood and to think that you are caught in birth and death, and to play this game which has a few wins here and there but is mostly full of suffering. That can't be an option, especially for those who have been in Zen. That doesn't seem like a viable option at all. As difficult as it may seem at times to remain empty for God, to remain anchored in love for God, as difficult as it may seem at times, that's our only option left.

So the mind says circumstances are too difficult, you can't do it, you're not worthy, you have no option. And that which is oppressive makes it sound like the alternative is difficult. That which is oppressive makes it sound like peace is difficult, love is difficult, whereas in reality, that is the only resting place away from the strife of Maya. So shoot down all pride, shoot down all self-image, shoot down all this, and meet a different life which is inward. I'm a strange type of parent. Strange. Most parents will tell their children, 'You are very special.' I'm the parent who says you're not special at all, which can sound harsh, but that's a fact. Everything good is from God; all the stupidity is what we bring into the picture. Please get over any of this stuff now, because later it becomes difficult.

Good. Something is being born just hearing you about pride and... yeah. And I'm not at all saying from a place of, 'Oh, I'm so humble.' There's a lot of foolish pride here, which is a constant work in progress, constant spotting, constant letting go.

So the journey to true humility even here is just beginning. It's impossible to live a life in God's light without humility. Humility is the doorway. Just like love is the doorway, humility is the doorway to love. Is it possible to be proud and love? It's just self-interest posing as love. But when we are humble, truly humble, we notice that what we take ourselves to be, what specialness we have, is all taking credit for God's grace, for His love. And many times our pride is a learned defense. It's just that we feel like the world is so full of attack, so we hold ourselves up like that, you see? But it's actually just another way of meeting our or dealing with our fear.

This is what feels like a momentum, like of, you know, I could see like I'm back into the same basement.

As one saying that if God is with us, He is the God, not even one of the Devas among the thousands of Devas. The one in the light of which even all the Devas appear here, that one is in your heart. Then what do we really have to fear? Our fear is so unfounded, it's so irrational. There is never a reason to fear. So let fear remain as the natural fear that arises, you see, but don't make it into a conditioned fear by mixing thoughts into it. Natural fear that arises means if a lion walked into the room... I remember Georgie was here the other day and she said, 'I only have the mental fear, I never fear otherwise.' So I just did that. I said that is the natural fear that happens naturally to us; it's built into the mechanics of this design. So that is okay. But to fear about things and future and image and these kind of things, and God is here...

So let's go back to my favorite metaphor, which is that if Krishna was sitting right in front of you, Ram was sitting right in front of you, or Jesus was sitting right in front of you, then what would you fear?

Like right now, I don't fear. Only when I... only when I become so full of me, me, me, and in the garb of God, God, God, you know? That's what I'm doing.

That's the trickery of Maya. That's why Kabir Ji said Maya is the Maha Thugni. At the lotus feet of Vishnu, she can hide. In the bhakti of the bhakta, she can hide. That is what you're spotting. How in the garb of the bhakti, Maya can hide, pride can hide, you see? And we don't notice that only when it starts to... because it eventually brings the same issues back, because the 'me' only has that same garbage. Yeah, and when it comes, then you realize, 'Oh my God, I was actually making it so mucky thinking I'm making it about God; I was making it about me.' And so even our self-examination and the noticing that we do about being foolish, stupid beggars should not become obsessive, you see? Obsessive. I'm here to just give you this obsessive love for God, you see? Just be obsessive about that.

And as an antidote to the achiever in us, the antidote to the spiritually... the one who's now attained spiritual mastery or all of that, you see, you must keep this 'me' in check. Because all the examples... he said, no, the wise one learns from the mistakes of others. So thousands and thousands of years of history of humanity has showed us that even the most spiritual ones get veiled by this pride. And of course, they can't smell it on themselves when they are fully hypnotized by it. So when it starts to perpetuate, that's when we must nip it in the bud.

There have been a few times when I have not shared and I wanted to share, you know, because it's not in my... it doesn't come to me to share all the good stuff somehow, you know? In satsang, I don't have any words for that. But usually I want to share when I notice something but I'm getting poked or I haven't shared.

Freedom you must always have. As long as this Father, his body is alive to serve you all, you must never let fears of self-image and like that block you from that. Because to expose it in satsang is very powerful and it's very freeing, because inwardly it just festers and festers. So get it out in front of the Sangha, in front of the one that you consider your Master. You must never let worldly considerations block you in this way. Yeah? Okay. So just start fresh. Empty, empty now. Either we can just be empty, isn't it? Or naturally as emptiness is there, His presence is palpable. Either way, the emptiness is all you can do. You cannot force the presence, isn't it? So you're empty now, is it? Now without going with the thought, what happened? Presence?

Yeah, the losing part, yes. Wait, has the presence left now? Now, now, now? Yes, it left. Left.

So what's happening is that your attention is latching on to like a sensation and labeling that as the presence. Yeah, so it's doing that because attention is going somewhere else, you're saying it's leaving. So it's not that it's... just your very being. Your being has left? I haven't stopped. So tell me when you stop. There's no... it's palpable that your being is present. It's palpable that your being is present. Okay, so let's do this together. Everyone try to stop being. Don't be right now. Can you not be? It sounds absurd to the mind, okay, but do it still. Humor me. You notice that besides the sensation of the body, there is a presence that is 'I am'. You notice that?

Notice some sens... I mean, I don't know if it's presence or sensation.

Yeah, so follow me again. That which shows you that you are 'I am', try to take that away. Don't be. As absurd as it may sound, because these things will not make sense to the head, but they can meet you in the heart. That I-amness, that being, that presence of being is the Atma within. And as long as you cannot confirm this, then just remain empty, waiting for His grace, His light, His mercy to show you. Because it's not an oppressive waiting. The mind can resist that and say, 'But how long must I wait before God comes? He should have come by now, I waited so long,' like she was saying, 'I prayed so long, He will come.' See? But this being empty for God itself is the end of suffering already. So He's already gifted us the end of strife, you see? So that itself is worth it. If suppose that God never came, even then to be empty would be to remain in the Unborn. And as Master Bankei said, all problems are perfectly resolved in the Unborn. See?

So just remain empty now. Without the thought coming, without you buying into the construct of the thought, what can shake you? So remain unshaken like this. The temptation of the mind is for strife, to create more strife, to create more strife, you see? The vicious circle that never comes to an end. We just get deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. The key is to just step back for a moment, center yourself. If you find naturally the presence within, then center yourself in the presence. Otherwise, find that unconditional love. Even if it starts off as a conditional love, remember someone that you love deeply and just remain in that love. In your remaining, all the conditions will fade away, and that unconditional love is going to lead you to His presence. And soon you will realize that this love is both a finding and a doing. So you can actively love God in your heart, and then that love becomes a beautiful anchor and a doorway to meeting Him.

So then our life goes from being bodily, worldly, to Godly. And a life which is not Godly is a zombie life. Just to take yourself to be a bundle of food walking around is a zombie life, without any exploration about what life truly is, whose life this truly is. Just to take yourself to be a limited body-mind trying to become the king of the world is not a true life; it is a hellish existence posing as life. But to come to the darshan of the Atma within is the switch over from this mode of life, the way of the head, to a true life which is the way of the heart. Yeah? I hope you're not just thinking about your question. I was saying all that, okay? Sorry. So, you?

Walking around is a zombie life without any exploration about what life truly is, whose life this truly is. Just to take yourself to be a limited body-mind trying to become the king of the world is not a true life; it is a hellish existence posing as life. But to come to the Darshan of the Atma within is the switch over from this mode of life, the way of the head, to a true life, which is the way of the heart. Yeah, this... I hope you're not just thinking about your question. I was saying all that, okay?

So, you've said many times that what we perceive and the labels we attach, there's no direct correlation. Like, I can call that chair, I can call it water, I can call it anything. But is there something about presence that I can say just, it is present? Like, because these things... how to really...

Because you're tiring yourself trying to squeeze all this into our tiny mind. Your heart already knows all this, so don't mistake conceptual understanding or wordy understanding to be any true understanding. These are at best pointers which can bring you to the heart. In your heart, you know your presence is present, that I am is I am. It's very simple. But when you try to squeeze it into your head—am I really am-ing? Who woke up when I woke up this morning from a sheer nothingness? Now there is this being, I am—can the mind really fathom all this? It can't. And yet, with the innocence of a child, you know all this.

But I keep getting it wrong over and over and over. Yeah, this only I'm not getting here, and this is here.

Leave that. If it is a thought, it is the mind. Tell me something thoughtlessly.

It'll be fine, I guess. I don't know. It'll be fine, I guess. I'm trying to work out that...

You see, your heart is saying 'I don't know.' Who is saying this is all too many people? We have to make every attempt to sacrifice our individual will to His will. And sometimes we don't realize that our individual will can many times just be a will to know more and more, to understand more and more, because that is what has traditionally been seen as progress—that the more I know, the more concepts I can parrot, the more I have learned. But don't meet life at that level at all. Leave the playground of the head. You stay empty and the heart will show you more and more, which you don't try to understand.

We talked about this earlier in satsang. The trouble is many of us dive into our heart to get the pearls out, you see, so that we can then use that as knowledge. You have to dive into the heart and stay there. You have to be the deep-sea divers that don't come back out. That is not death; it's true life. Not know? Yes, because you can never know here what the presence is like. With the measuring tape, tell me your weight. With the measuring tape? The wrong instrument. So, same way, for that which is truly real, truly, truly loving, you cannot use the wrong instrument of the mind.

Most of us have admitted that we cannot understand music in our head. Admit it. So, if music you can't understand in your head, then why not God? See, you already admitted that the music just touches you somewhere; you can't be mental about it. Love—it just touches you somewhere; you can't be mental about it. Truth, kindness, sweetness, justice, morality, the right way to be—all of that we know in our heart. It cannot be templatized, and it gets in trouble when we try to codify it, you see, all of these things. So, that which is the source of all of this, how will we ever meet here?

So, try to meet God like you meet music. How do you meet music? You don't say, 'Okay, this first beat was like that, and then it was like this, and then that's why it's symphonic,' you see? Because then many try to do that, but that is like taking the life away from it, the soul away from it in some sense. But to just meet it in the heart. So, once you learn to meet God in this way, then you also learn to meet life in this way, and you're not always trying to make sense of it, not always trying to determine the next move. You allow the Supreme Intelligence to unfold.