Our Conclusions Are Our Loss Of Innocence - 1st November 2018

I said at a time that wouldn't be very nice for him. He said, 'Father, when you started saying what's inside and outside, being oceans, it feels like it's a bit philosophical. I just want to like that is conceptual.' But he said that, and actually, I saw that this is really strong, really powerful to see that there is no distinction actually between inside and outside. Unless you really start to explore this thing, you will see that you have no idea what it means when you say 'outside.' Outside of what? 'Outside of me.' But then you make a boundary about you to your body. Really, this is working you somewhere because if you really, like I asked this one the other day, if you truly believe that you are the body, why would you be in satsang of all places? Nothing here for the body. So already there is a sense that you are not this.

Now you also find things like your attention. You will see that it cannot leave you. So when you say, 'I'm bringing my attention to the screen, the sounds there,' there is all of that happening. It never leaves us. So we wake up, it's about the outside, and many of us feel like we are very sure even about what is inside. But you don't know this, because this inside is very different from the inside of the body. Very often, if you went inside and you were going inside the body, then you would find different things there: bones and flesh and organs. So it is not really that important to make a conclusion that there is no distinction between outside and inside. What is more important is to admit to yourself that you really don't know. And the same for every notion.

As you use these notions, you come to the end of your suffering, or you come to a recognition of what you are. Now the thing is that each of these are notions, because conclusions... I had a nice chat with someone the other day, probably Shivani, and we think of this like a notion-conclusion machine. Even as we have seen that all notions are made up, we still have to make a conclusion about that, including, 'Oh, all my notions are made up.' You cannot rest without it in a way because the habit is that way, and that is like the loss of innocence. It's always like, 'Okay, so now I know that I cannot know this kind of thing.' Because to return to this innocence is a return to the point before the bite from that fruit was taken. It can seem a bit strange because we got used to living a way that now we at least have some conclusion that we can rest on.

Thank you. Seeing that as I spoke, you could see that even if it was the exact same words, it felt like a conclusion. But sometimes, and I can see that, that was also it was not really something you just have to speak.

Yeah, exactly. This is the thing. Whatever this is, the dilemma of a certain picture also, where seemingly so many conclusions are being made. But what is the... if there is like a test of that, the test is how attached are you to that which is being spoken? So we have you saying that we are talking about an amazing thing. Have you noticed how sometimes these words just come out of your mouth and you have no feeling to say them, or no intention about them? They come out, but something naturally then wants to take a stand like that just came, and when you have to then live up to that and say, 'Okay, now that it's come, I have to own it.' And one of them was also saying the same thing with thought. Once it has crossed my mind, 'This is mine.' This is all we are talking about: perspectives. What are perspectives but just a collection of thoughts? So once it has crossed your mind space, you feel like, 'Okay, I will live up to this, own up to this.' Because normally when you can lose it, it just comes and it's like you have to go to sleep while it's unspoken, and it's almost like there's some kind of knowledge, like you know the self-knowledge, but this just takes a conclusion. But you've seen that's it.

So a conclusion which is not really... doesn't have anything in it, it's just because conversations have to be made, things spoken. How open are we to being contradicted? If you notice, that starts to seem like an attack immediately if we said something, even if it came from nowhere. But somebody said, 'No, it is not like that,' then, 'No, it must be like this' kind of thing. It is in these sticky things that we are no longer open, no longer large. We no longer even explore once we take a stand. You see, that is the end of exploration because we become so closed. And it's very funny that in this entire play, it could be exactly the opposite also. Like those words that we are attached to could have come from another mouth, and the response could have come from our mouth, then the conversation could have just been the opposite. But it just seems like, 'Okay, now this is it.' It's a strange thing.

Yeah, as I'm just looking, I can feel that you're pointing us to something without concepts. And of course, sometimes we kind of paint relational concepts right away to go away from concepts. I mean, we all know them. And then like this inside-outside, it can be well-labeled: 'This is inside, inside the body,' and then there's that 'outside of me' where I can then in a way replace it with a label, 'No, it's all inside,' because I also label. And we all see that, but that's how the mind is functioning. It labels very much. And then what I just find is like, then first of all to see it in the moment that actually there is investment and that there is some belief, because the labels come and then there's a little bit of belief in it because now you found something which is more true. But I find it, in a way, it's strange because it seems to get... normally if you speak about that, you know, I feel yeah, they probably think, share with us, I know sister Lucy, 'Yeah, of course, it's all in me.' You know, then it takes like some shape.

So the thing that's what would you say, just be quiet? You know, like I just feel like even if I talk to myself, like let's say my mind says, 'Oh yeah, look, it's all inside of me,' I also give a... it's not exploring as I said, I just reported this. I have noticed it. Who was saying the other day that my thoughts are okay because nobody else can hear them? But when I say these words, I have to live up to that, like own them. Like once you take this stand, like relationships in the sun, 'This is how it is, it is all inside.' Yeah, somebody comes and says, 'But there is no inside,' 'No, it is all inside me.' Come to see it like she was saying, then own that.

But I would recommend that we don't even take a stand like, 'Okay, therefore, therefore, then the best thing to do is then keep quiet.' That is a conclusion, like 'the best thing for one.' We have to... what is it? If there was really a choice between being quiet or just keep shouting at the inside, maybe for the while... I didn't just mean like just in exchange and see that, you know, it's like also manifesting when you speak, but also when you like when you speak it or when you actually speak it inside the mind.

Thank you. So let's do one thing now. I take your position, you take mine. The best thing to do, anyone? And the more you hear about it, the more you start to act on it. If you were to argue about something now, we are suddenly much more attached to that thing which wasn't there five minutes ago. You see, it's just like that. This is exactly what I'm saying about perspectives and positions, this sort of conclusion-making system. As if it is then, if you like own this, then now I can... this is difficult I would say, because like once when one genuinely contemplates and then we might also see the mind dare to comment, the mind says, 'Look, you...'

If you were to argue about something now, we are suddenly much more attached to that thing which wasn't there five minutes ago, you see? It's just like that. This is exactly what I'm saying over perspectives and positions, this sort of conclusion-making system.

As if it is then... if you like on this, then now I can... this of this anomalous difficult, I would say. Because like once when one disingenuously contemplates and then we might also see the—dare to comment—the... yes, look, you know, I understand that it's good to do that. So like I see it also happening in there. It's like a feeling of like, yeah, do you know, I'm in this... and I like... it's happening. I mean, the one thought is like, okay, what you do know, should I go into that? It seems to be the lower choice, but also it might be a part of the path so-called. So you know what to do in all of this? To drop like... I don't know, it's just like a very tiny path where you're like, okay, you drop everything. So you kind of say just, just empty this. In a way, you might also drop the insights you have, no? Or you actually appreciate the insights and stay with them even though conclusions are made. But how do you differentiate between insight and conclusion? It's a very... like you pointed to something and then I might see, oh yeah, actually inside, outside, it's just like, for example, a definition of water that I made. It's just a label, that's it.

So that wordless—let's use the word 'seeing' for a moment—that wordless seeing in which there was no defining, that there is no... there was no defining inside or outside, that witnessing is what we would call insight. But when we say, 'Now I know that there is no inside or outside,' that is the conclusion. It comes in a split second after, yeah. Anything, especially with these Advaita concepts, people have been arguing about them for centuries. I can safely say all this, all of this appearance, is within consciousness. This is the play of consciousness. Then another will say that there is no such thing as consciousness; it exists and doesn't exist. Ajativada would say none of this has ever happened. But we can't even say that. We cannot say anything about the existence or non-existence of this. So it is not about which I will pick, because that naturally will unfold. Like I say this generally, talking about the play of consciousness. But we are visiting this concluding-lessness which here seems to be revealed to us at the moment. So that's why all these... but it's a method of inquiring into our conclusions and seeing that this is not valid, this is not valid, it is not valid, its opposite is not valid.

When you start letting go of these all, to just hand them over, the drop is quite abundant, you see? It's said about Ram Ji that it's all yours anyway, so I surrender it back to you. So the thing is that why I've been saying just one thing is automatically all the time you can have to push... well, thank you. They could keep them. We start making a museum for this point. You start like yourself, it means... I mean, tattoos or whatever. Does the cleanup job, though that can feel like I'm getting to do spirituality by making a nice museum to the best spiritual concepts. I think like this is how we should be, this is how the master should be, this kind of thing. And also then become... as she was saying earlier, that the activity let continue where it's okay and keep happening. They don't have to stop. But it is how much we are taking of just specifically what is happening to just limited appearance, yes? But we get so attached to that which comes out of our mouths and those who before agree with you, like 'my master said this.' But also all these appearances or sounds, it's like in this space of our existence, some sounds are being heard.

All my blessings are with you. My blessings are with all of you, also with those who asked for them on the chat. How to know the right questions or the wrong ones in this economy of context? If he's speaking a word from a certain context, actually I won't say the right question or the wrong question. No question in itself inherently would be right, but what is given in response to that question becomes part of our concept basket or there's a cleanup sweeper job. So if there's... if you would use the term, like if our attitude is that of letting go, then even the simplest two words that you hear from anyone actually can be beautiful pointers to help you let go. If our attitude is to gather more and more ideas to build a new belief system, that creates more identification, more confusion, more directing.

Like there's a beautiful story about Dogen. And then maybe version... there are many versions to these stories, I don't know which one you would put. This is the one that is coming up now. So when he met this old kitchen monk, who was a monk taking care of the kitchen, Dogen tells him, 'What are you doing? We're taking all this and you should be doing meditation and come to some true recognition of your Atma.' So the old monk told him that, 'You don't know what you're talking about. You have no idea about what the teachings are.' So then Dogen got quite a bit shaken up. So he says, 'What are the teachings? What is it pointing to?' And the old monk starts laughing and says, 'One, two, three, four, five.' So was it the right question and the right answer? I've been saying that the words a master uses to wake up a child from sleep usually are not of that much importance as we think they are. But I'm trying to let go by saying something to you. Good here to expose it in this way as one beautiful way to go. Thank you so much for being in satsang today. Satguru Sri Mooji Baba Ki Jai.